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Welcome to the Decipher podcast.
We are doing a Hacker movie 

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podcast about war games. 
We have the original band back 

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together, Zoe Lindsay and Pete 
Baker here with me along with 

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Lindsay O'Donnell Welch, who I 
think this is your first Hacker 

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Movie podcast with us, Linds. 
Which is crazy. 

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I'm honored to be here. 
Thanks for coming on our 

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podcast. 
I love that we're doing it again

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so we can do like Taylor's 
version of this this time. 

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Yes, perfect. 
Not released from the shackles 

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of the corporate overlords. 
Yes, I, yeah, we did do this 

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probably in 2019 is my guess. 
Somewhere in that early 2019 

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time frame. 
Yes, somewhere around there. 

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Closer to when the movie came 
out than now. 

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Right, Yes, yeah. 
When you we're still building a 

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tree house for your kids that 
are now in high school, Pete, 

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something like that. 
We're off to a good start. 

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So this is a a favorite movie, I
think of all of ours. 

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We have a a very large age range
here, Pete and I on the the 

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higher end of the scale, Zoe and
Lindsay down on the on the lower

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end of the scale. 
So I think when we did this the 

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first time, we probably talked 
about our first, like when we 

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became aware of this movie, for 
me, it was going to a movie 

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theater and seeing it in 1983, 
somewhere around my 11th 

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birthday, I would guess. 
Pete, I don't know. 

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Did you you might, you're a 
couple years younger than I am. 

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Would you? 
Yeah, I didn't get in the 

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theaters. 
They may have like re released 

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it, but it was definitely one of
like the early VHS tapes I 

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rented. 
Oh yeah, at like 7 or 8 years 

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old. 
Yeah, and I don't even have to 

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ask you, Zoe or Lindsey, but we 
would like love to hear. 

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I know you, Linds, were not not 
able to see this in the theater 

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'cause you were -10 years old or
something like that. 

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Yeah, I was. 
I would say I was probably in 

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the womb or before so it. 
Came out in 1983. 

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You were not even close. 
Yes, but yeah, no, I, I probably

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have, you know, I think 
probably, you know, a decade 

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ago, it was when I first saw it,
but, and it wasn't even because 

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it was, you know, within the 
field that I'm doing, I just 

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really enjoy 80s movies and you 
know, that that entire kind of 

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range of actors and actresses I 
I really like. 

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So I, I saw it because of that. 
And then, you know, as I got 

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into cybersecurity, I was like, 
huh, this is really cool and saw

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it again and then. 
Yeah. 

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So I've only seen it like maybe 
three times, whereas I'm sure 

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all of you guys have seen it 
like at least a dozen at this 

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point, if not double that. 
So a. 

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Dozen is generous too. 
I spend my time. 

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I've seen it three times this 
weekend, but to be honest. 

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It's on in the background right 
now. 

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Perfect. 
Yeah, what about you, Zoe? 

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I was thinking, I remember the 
like living room frame around 

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the TV that I saw it on. 
So I saw it at my friend's 

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house, which means it was either
on HBO or taped off of HBO 

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because they had HBO and so they
had the robust movie collection.

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Yeah, that's that sounds about 
right. 

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It was one of those HBO movies 
that was just on in the 80s from

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like, you know, however long it 
took to get to HBO back then, 

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like 8586, whatever it was, it 
was just on forever. 

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And it was one of those movies. 
I just remember, you know, a lot

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like sneakers, which, you know, 
we all love too, where you just 

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kind of committed at a point 
you're like, oh, awesome. 

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You know, they're they're 
getting to the island with 

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Falcon's house and he's going to
do weird dinosaur shit with 

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them. 
And you're a little worried 

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about like his like him having 
teenagers on his island. 

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I'm going to sit down and watch 
this or like, you know, the 

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Nora, that tour is coming and 
there's going to be that 

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happening. 
Or, you know, like, you know, 

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Matthew Broderick, dopey parents
are going to eat raw corn at the

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dinner table and you're going to
get grossed out and, just, like,

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laugh. 
It very much seemed on this 

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rewatch, it very much seemed 
like Matthew Broderick's parents

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were like the parody of parents 
that you would see in a kids 

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cartoon. 
Like, like they are such like 

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archetype cutouts that it's just
like they they seemed like 

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animated characters in a live 
action movie almost. 

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Yeah, straight out of central 
casting for. 

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Yeah, truly. 
Inept. 

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You know, technocratic genius 
spawning parents. 

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And also just like completely 
ignoring their kid, which was 

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like a seventies 80s parent 
thing. 

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Like the, you know, my parents 
had no idea where the hell that 

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was 90% of the time, right? 
And they clearly have no idea 

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what the hell David is doing. 
You know, he's wandering around,

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he's got his own computer setup 
up there. 

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They they don't ever even walk 
up the stairs like they spend 

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all of their time in that living
room or the kitchen or whatever.

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They never go to his bedroom. 
They're, you know, they have 

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they're. 
Just glad he he he brought a 

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girl home. 
His little friend. 

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You're the friend, yeah. 
Not failing on his report card, 

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yeah. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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No double checking that one like
a OK. 

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I always forget that he's like a
terrible student in this movie, 

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which they emphasize like right 
away, you know, like failed his 

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what? 
Chemistry or biology or whatever

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it was exam him analogy. 
Biology one, Yeah, which maybe 

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has one of the better like lines
of of all in it. 

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When the teachers asked him 
about asexual reproduction, he's

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like, why don't you tell me who 
who came up with the idea of 

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reproduction without sex? 
He's like, you're a wife. 

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He's like, yeah, that's like a 
Rodney Dangerfield. 

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Literally or like a henny young 
man like one liner just like. 

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Weird. 
What is happening here? 

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What the the HBO mentioned, 
though, I realize, I think I 

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realized how how the vast 
majority of the time I've seen 

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this movie has been that kind of
situation where you kind of jump

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in a few minutes into it or 
halfway through it or something.

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It had been so long since I saw 
the entirety of the opening 

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scene in the, you know, the 
first NORAD bunker kind of 

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thing. 
Where there, you know, the two 

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man rule doesn't happen and 
that's why they're, you know, 

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going through all this stuff. 
Them getting into that and going

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down the elevator. 
I'd had it totally mixed up in 

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my head with the spy, not spy 
versus spy. 

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What's spies like us? 
Spies like us, the the same 

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opening scene when they're like 
out in New Mexico or something 

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and they go and they have to get
a Pepsi from the fountains 

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loaded to unlock the elevator to
go down. 

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I thought that was working. 
It's kind of the. 

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Same. 
It's the same thing. 

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They go into some weird 
abandoned house, but yeah. 

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But it's also like. 
I'm glad it wasn't the Pepsi 

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unlock thing. 
That was a little little heavy 

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product placement there. 
It's not far off though, because

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like the, the goofiness of it, 
they go through this whole drawn

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out thing where the 2 
replacement guys come to the 

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bunker. 
They go through this whole 

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security procedure, you know, 
the ID cards, the whole, you 

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know, PIN pad verification, all 
that kind of stuff. 

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And then they get in there it, I
mean, this is like 5 or 7 

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minutes of the movie that just 
really is just like a prologue 

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to set up this test essentially 
that these two guys failed. 

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You know, Michael Madsen and who
I always forget. 

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I told you, Pete, every time I 
see this movie, I forget that 

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Michael Madsen is in that first 
scene. 

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And I'm always so excited with 
Leo McGarry from Oregon. 

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Yes, it always like kind of 
shocks me. 

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Holy shit, that guy's in this 
movie. 

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I completely forgot he just died
like what, 8 months ago or 

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something but. 
And he was like, he looked 18 in

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it, too. 
Yeah. 

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No doubt. 
Which is crazy because Michael 

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Madison just looks 70 all the 
time, or at least like 50 all 

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the time. 
So seeing him look young at all 

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was very often, Yeah. 
It is. 

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It's one of those movies where 
it's like right out the gate 

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there's like a Leo moment of oh,
I know, I know him. 

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And that happens through the 
whole thing. 

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I think that isn't one of the 
generals. 

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Also the guy that was the 
principal and Back to the 

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Future. 
Yes. 

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He's not a general. 
He's like one of the civilian 

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consultants that's in the Yeah. 
He's a student. 

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Yep, the Principal and Back to 
the Future and the Admiral and 

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Top Gun. 
Yeah. 

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James Toback, I think, is his 
name. 

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I should have done some 
research. 

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I've only seen this 400 times. 
But yes, I always forget that 

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he's in this too. 
And there's just so much of 

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that. 
But there's the whole before we 

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ever get to any of like, the 
Hacker movie stuff that we all 

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love about this, it's just like 
kind of a goofy 80s movie with, 

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you know, David and Ally 
Sheedy's character, Jennifer, 

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you know, who are apparently, 
like, lovable kind of goofball, 

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like, not great students, like, 
you know, failing biology exams.

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I take it they're seniors. 
I don't really know. 

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Well, maybe not. 
She's riding a moped. 

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Might be junior. 
Dirt dirt bike. 

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It's a dirt, dirt. 
Bike. 

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OK, yeah, way, way cooler. 
Either way, they don't have 

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cars. 
They're just kind of like 

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cruising around Seattle, like 
not going to class, not doing 

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any homework. 
Ally Sheedy's doing like 

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aerobics commercials or 
something. 

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We find out towards the end of 
the movie, which I forgot about 

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too. 
Yeah, they're remarkably 

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unbothered by like having to be 
in school or anything like that,

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or have parents or obligations. 
Yes, yeah. 

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Is that what your high school 
experience was like? 

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Lindsay? 
I know you're you're a you're a 

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good student. 
So it's probably I feel. 

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Like I would have made they made
questionable decisions that I 

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would have probably made 
differently. 

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Yeah. 
It is interesting that like, 

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especially at this point in 80s 
movies, it felt like if if you 

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had high school characters, they
were getting slotted into like 

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an archetype. 
Like you were, you were going to

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be a jock, you were going to be 
a nerd, Like you were going to 

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be like the Alex P Keaton, like 
young capitalist, you know, 

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business person. 
And it was neat that this was, I

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mean, they were they were just 
kids. 

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Like, you know, they're kind of 
kind of goofy goofing off in 

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class, but also really smart. 
Like they didn't have, they 

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didn't have that central casting
kind of character outline. 

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Lightman kind of fit an 
archetype, but Ally Sheedy is 

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like a total outlier for me. 
Like like you're saying like a 

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high school girl in the 80s 
riding a dirt bike and like 

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wearing sweater vests. 
Like, I don't know where to put 

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her in my brain as far as like, 
you know, references anywhere 

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else in the stuff. 
She seems smart. 

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She's at least personable, but 
we don't really get any other 

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than she's not good at testing 
or doesn't try. 

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Like we don't really get much 
fleshing out of her other than 

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like a couple interesting 
elements. 

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Like we never see her parents. 
We they never seem to care that 

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she's like off on this adventure
just. 

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Hanging out in Lightman's room 
like she's. 

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Very preppy for a kid with a 
dirt bike like. 

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This was the era of commercials 
reminding you to check if you 

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had your children at home, like 
11. 

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00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,960
So. 
Yeah, Captain Lou Albana 

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reminding you to. 
It's 10:00. 

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That's right. 
The street lights are on. 

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Do you know where your children 
are? 

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Like, this is. 
I forgot all about that, Zoe. 

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That was like, my entire 
childhood is literally. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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So it's so true. 
But the first indication we get 

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of like, kind of the mischief is
on that dirt bike, dirt bike 

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ride home from school after they
both failed their tests, where 

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Ali Sheedy's like, oh, so I 
guess you have to go to summer 

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00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,720
school, too. 
And he's like, Nope, I don't 

225
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,000
think so. 
And she's like, what do you mean

226
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,280
you got to pass biology to 
graduate? 

227
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,800
He's like, yeah, I'm going to 
take care of that. 

228
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,960
Come on up to my room. 
And she's like, oh, OK. 

229
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,800
But she's not so mischievous 
that she want that. 

230
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,720
She goes right along with it. 
She sees him do it and then 

231
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,800
she's like, I'm not comfortable 
with this. 

232
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,080
And put it, put it back to an F,
yeah. 

233
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,800
And then leaves, which is not 
typical dirt bike owner 

234
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,880
attitude. 
So again, she's just did a 

235
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,120
little more. 
Rebellion from young men for 

236
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,240
Matt. 
Yeah. 

237
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,400
Yeah, I know. 
Lindsay, what was your what's 

238
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,440
your reaction when you see, 
like, the computer in David's 

239
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,560
room? 
Like, does that look like an E 

240
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:57,800
Rex skeleton to you? 
Yeah, it. 

241
00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:02,840
Does I mean, we had a computer 
in my house in the 90s. 

242
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,200
So like, you know, it obviously 
I'm I'm aware kind of of that 

243
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,160
generate, you know, that decade,
I guess, although that was, you 

244
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,200
know, a decade later, but it's 
still like really funny to 

245
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,000
watch, especially with laptops 
that we have today with 

246
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,120
smartphones, all that. 
And even just like, you know, 

247
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,160
the like calling on on the 
landline phone, those types of 

248
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,080
things like I love, you know, 
movies like this where it's just

249
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,240
like way before any of that 
stuff. 

250
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:39,600
So it's I think that so I have 
young kids and I'm definitely 

251
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,000
going to make them watch this 
because I feel like, you know, 

252
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,480
people, they need to know like 
how how it used to be before 

253
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,760
kind of the times of the. 
Quick smartphones and. 

254
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,920
We were all jealous as hell of 
that setup. 

255
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,560
Even that like, you know, it was
fairly, it was like the, I 

256
00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:01,840
forgive what his computer was, 
but it was like a clone of, you 

257
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,440
know, it's the kind of hobbyist 
1. 

258
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,400
So it wasn't like crazy 
expensive, but having the the 

259
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,680
modem in 83 was like, I mean, 
that's game changer for anyone 

260
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,720
with a computer and a voice. 
Encoder and a printer. 

261
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,000
I had a. 
Commodore 64, like a couple 

262
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,800
years later and I never had, I 
didn't have a modem for that. 

263
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,880
There was no connection for that
thing that that I had at least 

264
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,240
because I think the modem was 
like 1800. 

265
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,240
Dollars or something. 
Modems are so expensive. 

266
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,600
Crazy expensive and to have it 
as anachronistic just like the 

267
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,680
hand, the handset just sitting 
on there and that's how they, 

268
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,200
you know, disconnected in 
speaker, in sneakers too and 

269
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,920
they just knocked the handset 
off and it's like disconnect. 

270
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,640
Love that. 
It's yeah, it's so funny. 

271
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,920
I think you mentioned Zoe in 
your in your notes that you had 

272
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,320
an acoustic coupler modem. 
We definitely did too. 

273
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,520
We found it, my best friend and 
I, we would go garbage picking 

274
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,920
for people's old computer 
equipment on our bikes, haul it 

275
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,600
all back to his house and we 
found 1. 

276
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:10,280
And I also had a Commodore 64, 
but we found the one that we did

277
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,360
in like 91, I think 92. 
So we didn't have a system that 

278
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520
could use it. 
But I was so excited when we 

279
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,720
found it because of sneakers of 
war games. 

280
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,440
Like, you know, we, I don't know
if we had a dial up modem at 

281
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,160
home then, but I thought the 
acoustic coupler was so much 

282
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,960
cooler. 
Also, watching this movie again 

283
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,920
makes me want large toggle 
switches on anything that I do 

284
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,720
right now. 
I'm going to like 3D prints and 

285
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,480
switches to put on my MacBook 
just to. 

286
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,200
Yeah, the hell with touch 
screens. 

287
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,040
Give me physical switches that 
like actually do a thing. 

288
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,880
Like if you have a modern car 
that's just a computer on wheels

289
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,520
and something breaks, you're so 
screwed. 

290
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,160
Like you can't fit. 
Like even people that know how 

291
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,640
to you, you can't do it. 
So like, yeah, I'm with you, 

292
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,480
Pete. 
Like give me like a button that 

293
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,000
I push and I know that a 
mechanical thing is happening. 

294
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,520
You know I want a physical 
disconnection between the 

295
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,240
diodes. 
Also. 

296
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,040
I didn't realize until watching 
this one again, he wasn't even 

297
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,240
using the five and a half inch 
floppies. 

298
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,160
He was, you know, big. 
Like 7/7 and 1/2 or 8? 

299
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,360
They might as well have been 
laser discs or like. 

300
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,440
Enormous. 
They are like dinner plates. 

301
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,520
Like, how do you even get that 
in the slot when you have to 

302
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,080
feed it in manually and it's 
that like flimsy crazy? 

303
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,680
Yeah. 
So that that whole technical 

304
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,360
like the setup that he has in 
his room. 

305
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,360
So this came out in 83 this, you
know, say it's shot in 82 or 

306
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,680
whatever. 
That would have been like 

307
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,760
extremely rare. 
I would say like, you know, my, 

308
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,760
I've talked about this before. 
My dad was an engineer at IBM 

309
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,080
and like we had computers in our
home from the time I, I could 

310
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,160
remember, like we had an Apple 
2E and then we had IBM PCs once 

311
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,920
those came out. 
But in 1982, like to have all 

312
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,280
that shit in your room. 
I mean, I don't know, we could 

313
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,839
probably look it up, but that is
many thousands of dollars worth 

314
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,560
of computer equipment. 
And like his mom I guess is a 

315
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,720
real estate agent. 
I don't know that Lightman's dad

316
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,240
has a job. 
He just sits around doing 

317
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,680
crossword puzzles and like being
absent minded about like the 

318
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,240
trash or whatever. 
Like they have a nice house 

319
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,640
obviously in Seattle. 
Like that's probably like 

320
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,280
$7,000,000 house right now. 
But now, yeah. 

321
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,400
Knowing somebody that had that 
kind of set up, like would have 

322
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,680
been like everyone in town would
have been like, holy shit, have 

323
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,400
you seen David's computer? 
Like, you know, it would have 

324
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,160
been like him having a Ferrari 
in his. 

325
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,680
And if you look around on the 
rest of the shelves, like he's 

326
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,760
got some pretty sick stereo 
equipment too. 

327
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:44,600
And like a Selectrics typewriter
like this guy is like kitted 

328
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,800
out. 
Was he? 

329
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,920
You think he was a ride? 
He needs a ride home from LE 

330
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,920
Sheedy. 
Yeah, yeah, Something, something

331
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,760
done that up. 
Here, yeah, how is he making his

332
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,640
money that I've got some 
questions about Davidde 

333
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,760
background here was he like. 
It might be someone bootleg 

334
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,160
video games from the company is.
Breaking into. 

335
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,040
Someone wears. 
Yeah. 

336
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,320
I I think the setup was why we 
had started going down the 

337
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,400
rabbit hole of the Ferris 
Bueller extended universe last 

338
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,760
time was because like. 
There's no. 

339
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,080
Reason for a high school student
to have all of this stuff. 

340
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,640
Yes, true. 
This is. 

341
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,240
I don't Lindsay. 
I don't know if you've heard 

342
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,760
this, Zoe. 
Yes. 

343
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,240
I have. 
That's a very valid theory in my

344
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,840
opinion. 
It all just clicks immediately 

345
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,920
when you hear that right? 
It does, yeah. 

346
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,040
Because it's only like, what, 2 
years later or three years 

347
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,520
later? 
So David's obviously not a good 

348
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,280
student. 
Doesn't, you know, doesn't make 

349
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,800
it in the Seattle high school. 
They transfer him to to Chicago,

350
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,960
right? 
Yes, to your neck of the woods 

351
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,240
and give him another shot. 
And yeah, you know, brings his 

352
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,000
skills. 
And Jennifer Gray gets mad. 

353
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,440
I mean, he's got the charisma. 
He's he's on the edge of the 

354
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,800
Ferris Bueller charisma in war 
games. 

355
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,040
Not not quite, you know, but it 
comes from like being able to 

356
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,440
make money off your computer. 
I guess this this really was 

357
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:18,440
like the initial drop out 
computer, you know, success kind

358
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,000
of guy that that knows such a 
cliche. 

359
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,120
And did go ahead, sorry. 
Did we talk about the universal 

360
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:32,160
6 character passwords? 
Because I know that I, I don't 

361
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,560
know if I remembered that he 
sent, got sent to the 

362
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,160
principal's office so he could 
check out what the new one was. 

363
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,160
But I think I noticed a little 
bit later on when he's trying to

364
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,640
figure out what the back door 
password is to get access to 

365
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,200
Whopper, that like I'm pretty 
sure that every password that 

366
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,920
gets used in the movie is 6 
characters because all the ones 

367
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,200
that are scratched out on the on
the writing slate are also 6 

368
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,720
characters. 
And then so is Joshua. 

369
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,160
Yeah. 
And the the guns they give the 

370
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,320
NORAD guys to ensure that they 
both turn the key are 6 shooters

371
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:09,840
so. 
Look at this. 

372
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,920
Look at you, Pete. 
Maybe there's a whole thing. 

373
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,080
There yeah, I know the the 
principal's office thing I 

374
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,800
always forget about that too. 
Zoe like, Oh yeah, how does he 

375
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,080
get into the whopper again? 
Like how does this whole thing 

376
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,200
start? 
And then it's literally just hit

377
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,320
like him getting sent to the 
office, sitting down and pulling

378
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,120
out the like writing desk thing.
And it's like, Oh yeah, today is

379
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:34,520
his pencil or this week or. 
The password for Whopper 

380
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,040
Falcon's son Joshua 6 letters. 
Like there really was something 

381
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,360
to that. 
Do you remember? 

382
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,680
So the first thing first idea I 
think I ever told John and Doug 

383
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,560
a duo about when we were like 
talking about doing weirder 

384
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,960
stuff than normal like security 
marketing was I want to re edit 

385
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,760
war games for if there was 2 
factor authentication at the 

386
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,760
time and the movie lasted about 
35 seconds. 

387
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,280
It was, you know, he found he 
found the password pencil. 

388
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,040
He puts it in. 
They're like, hey, there's 

389
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,040
somebody trying to get in. 
They're like, well, just hit the

390
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,280
red button and then it gets 
denied. 

391
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,320
The duo logo shows up on the 
screen and they're like, how 

392
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,840
rude? 
Like, what do you want to do 

393
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,080
now? 
And it cuts straight to them 

394
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,000
like walking down the dirt Rd. 
on the island. 

395
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,880
Credits roll like. 
So good. 

396
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,280
Yeah. 
Do you have that somewhere? 

397
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,000
I'm sure you do. 
Yeah, yeah, of. 

398
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,080
Course, of course you do. 
Why? 

399
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,200
Would I ask, That was one of my 
favorites to play at events 

400
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,320
because you didn't need any 
audio like you could just people

401
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,280
could watch it and get a kick 
out of it. 

402
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,560
But if you did have the audio, 
you would hear me speaking over 

403
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,520
Michael Madsen to to give the 
voice. 

404
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,920
Over. 
Oh shit, yeah. 

405
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:46,200
Same thing, same same energy. 
Yeah, psychopath. 

406
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,440
The thing that always strikes me
on rewatch is, yeah, there's the

407
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,760
technical stuff, you know, the 
whopper stuff and all this sort 

408
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,880
of technocrat stuff once we get 
to NORAD and all that. 

409
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,160
But it's like Lindsay, it's the 
same like social engineering and

410
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,840
like basic stuff that we still 
write about like literally 42 

411
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,600
years later. 
That's the real extended 

412
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,320
cinematic hacking universe. 
It's just social engineering all

413
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,240
the way down. 
It's so true. 

414
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,960
Yeah. 
Even the password thing we were 

415
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,800
just talking about, I was like, 
I think like, there's so many 

416
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,720
people that, you know, will have
their password as pencil or 

417
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,440
effort or double or whatever. 
The other passwords were just 

418
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,360
like keep it on a scratchpad 
like. 

419
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,640
In their. 
In their office or wherever. 

420
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:39,520
And you know, this is like what?
Like decades later so. 40 years.

421
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,280
Yes, like the social engineering
aspect of it too is like also 

422
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,880
very much still relevant and 
applicable and even like, yeah, 

423
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,400
using Joshua as your as your 
password, like being able to 

424
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,080
connect the dots and like, you 
know, like, you know, from a 

425
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,280
social engineering perspective, 
like you know, how to how to do 

426
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,840
certain things. 
Like, I thought that was really 

427
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,680
interesting. 
And the the ocean of like 

428
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,840
researching who made the thing 
and then finding out that his 

429
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,320
son passed away. 
And maybe that's. 

430
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,360
And then just like they spend as
much time like reading about 

431
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,520
stuff as they do trying to 
actually hack the stuff in order

432
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,640
to have enough awareness of the 
people behind it that they can 

433
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,760
emulate them, emulate their 
thinking. 

434
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:33,240
I mean, David goes to an actual 
library and like does whether 

435
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,960
it's like microfiche or I was. 
Just going to say, does he get 

436
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,440
microfiche because that I. 
Think or I can't remember, but 

437
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,280
he's looking up old news 
articles. 

438
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,960
I think it's actually on the 
computer, old news articles 

439
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,640
about Falcon to do research, you
know, to figure out what this 

440
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,920
guy was all about, which is 
exactly, exactly the stuff that,

441
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,280
you know, pen testers and social
engineers and attackers of all 

442
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,320
kinds do when they're looking at
a target, you know, they're 

443
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,280
trying to find out as much as 
they can about who they're 

444
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,440
going. 
It was microfiche. 

445
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,000
I just OK. 
There we go, microfiche. 

446
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,640
I remember in my notes I wrote 
down like that whole little 

447
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,800
montage. 
Can't have an 80s movie without 

448
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,840
a good montage. 
I mean, they they showed 

449
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,600
reconnaissance, they showed him 
doing scanning, they showed him 

450
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,480
doing exploitation in the sense 
of figuring out what the 

451
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,200
password was like. 
Don't remember him doing a whole

452
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,000
lot of exfiltration of 
information. 

453
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,920
And he certainly didn't do a 
great job of covering his 

454
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,560
tracks. 
But like there's there's a 

455
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,920
decent chunk of the attack chain
there, like. 

456
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,720
Yeah, I love. 
I love how like plausible every 

457
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,040
all the consultants they had on 
it were like, you know, 

458
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,760
luminaries, right? 
Cabin crunch was like part, but 

459
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,440
they're all and even after the 
non consultants were like this 

460
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,960
is all all these techniques are 
totally legitimate. 

461
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,880
This is one of the better 
portrayals of hacking in in in 

462
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680
movies. 
But the the most farcical part 

463
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,920
about it was when people that 
were familiar with NORAD saw the

464
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,760
the war room. 
They're like, we didn't have 

465
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,800
anything that cool. 
Yeah. 

466
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,960
We didn't have sweet screens 
that big up on the wall, it's 

467
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,320
just terminals and shit. 
One of my favorite bits of 

468
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,160
trivia is that NORAD upgraded 
these screens to color because 

469
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,640
after this movie came out they 
did have tours, and the tours 

470
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,680
were asking where the modern the
modern control room was. 

471
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,800
It's kind of demoralizing that 
that's what our our nuclear 

472
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,200
systems are run off of after you
see what it could have. 

473
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,560
Been Well, yeah. 
I mean, so this this movie 

474
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,160
caused that. 
And also eventually the computer

475
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,960
fraud and abuse act stemmed from
this movie. 

476
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,680
There was an interim wall 
between there, but yeah. 

477
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,480
I didn't realize how close in 
time and coincidental, this 

478
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,320
movie and the Soviet, the guy 
Petrov that actually did what 

479
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,200
they did in the opening scene 
where he didn't, he didn't turn 

480
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,920
the key, he didn't make the 
attack happen. 

481
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,640
That was just like a month or 
two later after this movie came 

482
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,680
out. 
Yeah, the same year. 

483
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,800
And we didn't hear about it 
obviously, for a long time. 

484
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,480
But that was 1983, too. 
So this is like eerily plausible

485
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,000
on so many levels. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

486
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,960
It's crazy. 
I wanted to. 

487
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,200
So this came out in 1983, as I 
mentioned, just to get, I want 

488
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,280
to give you a little bit of 
context of like the movies that 

489
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,840
were coming out in 1983. 
So this is the top 10 box office

490
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,960
like US domestic box office 
movies from 1983. 

491
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,440
Top five Return of the Jedi. 
Oh, you're saying? 

492
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,400
Tootsie Flashdance. 
Trading Places. 

493
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,160
War Games at #5 Respectable. 
Octopussy. 

494
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,080
Staying Alive. 
Risky Business. 

495
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,480
Mr. Mom. 
National Lampoon's Vacation 

496
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,360
Staying. 
Alive was #3 the. 

497
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,960
Sequel no Staying alive was 
number 70. 

498
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,800
OK #3 was Flashdance. 
Flashdance a movie that has no 

499
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,680
actual does not exist at this 
point. 

500
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,840
You cannot. 
OK, so for context, 2023, forty 

501
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,520
years later. 
This is so depressing. 

502
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,680
Stop me when I get to a non IP 
movie here. 

503
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,440
Barbie, the Super Mario Brothers
Movie Spider Spiderman, Across 

504
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,240
the Spider verse, Guardians of 
the Galaxy Volume 3 Oppenheimer.

505
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:23,640
There we go. 
There we. 

506
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,160
Go The Little Mermaid, Avatar, 
The Way of Water, Ant Man and 

507
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,160
the Wasp, Quantum Mania, John 
Wick Chapter 4, and Sound of 

508
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,680
Freedom, a movie I've never 
heard of. 

509
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,080
Is that the drummer 1? 
It's not it's something about 

510
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,240
like human trafficking. 
I looked it up sounds I don't 

511
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,400
know how it's in the top ten 
domestic that never heard of it,

512
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:49,480
but like 9 IP movies in that top
ten and you know, and obviously 

513
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,960
we weren't making quite as many 
sequels in 1983, but like those 

514
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,400
are almost all classics in that 
top 10 from 1983, right? 

515
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,040
Like I don't know about original
original classics. 

516
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,040
Yes, aside from Return of the 
Jedi. 

517
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,640
Yeah, it's crazy. 
But it's it's also crazy to me 

518
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,520
that a movie like this, which 
has like a kind of a depressing 

519
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,360
plot, you know, like we almost 
blew up the world because a kid 

520
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:17,320
hacked into a computer was the 
number five movie in the 

521
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,320
country, you know, had such a 
wide audience. 

522
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,000
Obviously it's like fun, but you
know it. 

523
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,680
I mean, it had a wide enough 
audience that Ronald Reagan this

524
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,560
here's another, here's another 
parallel to modern it. 

525
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:34,480
Our president watched a movie 
and changed policy over it. 

526
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,520
Reagan got to watch it at Camp 
David that year and then went 

527
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,520
straight to the Joint Chiefs. 
And he was like, is this for 

528
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,520
real? 
And they're like, well, kinda. 

529
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,280
And so they changed all kinds of
stuff. 

530
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Another to to that this is kind 
of a depressing story. 

531
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:57,240
I always forget that when they 
get to see Falcon that he's 

532
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,760
like, no, no, no, no, it's OK, 
I've got a plan. 

533
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,240
We're only three miles away from
a primary target, so we'll just 

534
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,760
be vaporized. 
Like I always forget that. 

535
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,800
Like, not only is he resigned to
this vape, but he's like no, no,

536
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,600
no, I just, I want to be gone 
when it all kicks off. 

537
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,800
Yeah, which was that was pretty 
heavy at 8 years old, but also 

538
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,680
kind of, you know, was just the 
right amount of nihilism to be 

539
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,520
had. 
Like then you'd be like, well, 

540
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,400
if you're going to go go quick 
because the only, the only thing

541
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120
worse than nuclear war is 
surviving it, so. 

542
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,840
He's not wrong about that, 
honestly. 

543
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,400
Like his little speech there 
where he's like, no, trust me, 

544
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,360
I'm saving us from wandering 
around with the blind in the 

545
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,360
post apocalyptic wasteland. 
And they're like what? 

546
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,000
And why do you have so many 
dinosaurs in your house? 

547
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,040
What are you doing out here? 
Dude, I have the high score at 

548
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,040
Gallagher right now. 
I'm not ready to go. 

549
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,280
Yeah, I feel like it's such like
a family fun tone of movie that 

550
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,960
like when you get hit with those
like super dark scenes, you're 

551
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,800
like, oh, that's actually really
messed up. 

552
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,200
Like, that's why they delivered 
it in such a gentlemanly English

553
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,720
accents. 
If that was like Dabney Coleman 

554
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,480
doing that, it would have been 
really hard to take. 

555
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,640
For Barry Corbin, Yeah, Cowboy 
Barry Corbin. 

556
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,280
I think we, I'm sure we would 
have talked about this on the 

557
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,400
first podcast, but knowing that,
I don't know if you know this, 

558
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,320
Lindsay, that role of Falcon was
written for John Lennon. 

559
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,080
I read that. 
Yeah, that's wild. 

560
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,960
Which is like bananas. 
I don't he would have it. 

561
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,800
My brain doesn't even I can't 
like wrap my head around that at

562
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,200
all. 
I don't I truly don't know if he

563
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,880
was ever in a movie like a in an
acting role, like a non Beatles 

564
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,240
type movie. 
I have no idea. 

565
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,400
I can only imagine they would 
have tried to work him into way 

566
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,440
more of the movie if they had 
land in him and that would have 

567
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,880
made it pretty weird. 
Yes. 

568
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:04,000
Was he going to play it like I 
know he like died before, right?

569
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,640
Like was that the background 
there or was it for him? 

570
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,640
I don't know that it ever got 
that far. 

571
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,880
I think the two screenwriters 
who also wrote sneakers, we 

572
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,400
should talk about that. 
But they wrote the part with him

573
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,280
in mind. 
I don't know that it ever got to

574
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,960
the the point of him seeing the 
script or anything like that. 

575
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,720
Because he would have, really. 
Early in the pre production of 

576
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,600
this movie I would guess. 
It was originally written to be 

577
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,360
more about Falcon, like it was 
called the Genius and then it 

578
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,320
turned, you know, in writing 
revisions and stuff. 

579
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,840
They realized it was just, it 
was a lot cooler to make it 

580
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,640
about the, the teenage, you 
know, brat versus the depressed 

581
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,960
genius. 
So maybe, maybe that's when it 

582
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,480
kind of switched. 
It's like, well, it's not going 

583
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:56,000
to center John Lennon anymore. 
He's he's busy like doing 

584
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:56,680
nothing. 
He's. 

585
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,320
He's not doing it for a bit 
part. 

586
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Come on. 
No. 

587
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,400
I do want to talk about the cast
a little bit though, because we 

588
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,600
mentioned Matthew Broderick, 
obviously Ferris Bueller. 

589
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,040
I, I think this is really like 
his first real big role. 

590
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,240
I think he'd been in a couple 
little things before this and I 

591
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,840
think he'd done some theatre 
work maybe. 

592
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,560
But he became such like an 80s 
icon with this and Ferris 

593
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Bueller and a few other movies. 
And so did Ali Sheedy. 

594
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,000
They just like knocked it out of
the park with those two leads. 

595
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,600
You know, she was in like Saint 
almost fire and Breakfast Club 

596
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,560
and Short circuit, another 
great, great movie, which makes 

597
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:43,000
sense now, but I don't know how 
well this works if they don't 

598
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,080
nail those two parts. 
You know, you have like 

599
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,680
Broderick's like goofy boyish 
charm and she's like this kind 

600
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,000
of naive sidekick. 
But you know, not an idiot If 

601
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,240
you know if it's if it's two 
other people, I'd have a hard 

602
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,400
time. 
Like, who would we even like if 

603
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,040
we were casting this now? 
Who? 

604
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,520
Like, are there any modern 
actors that you could see Zoe? 

605
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,080
I don't know. 
I didn't get to. 

606
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,480
I was, I did have the thought 
several times of how things 

607
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,560
would be different now, mainly 
that Whopper would have been 

608
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,160
sponsored by Amazon and Burger 
King, but no. 

609
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,320
And it's I was thinking that 
both of them, their careers were

610
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,440
made by these iconic high school
characters that they played like

611
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,680
when they were like they were in
their early 20s. 

612
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,480
But in this movie, both of them 
look look like the high school 

613
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,200
students that they're supposed 
to play. 

614
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,280
It'd probably be like Timothy 
Chalamet or something now. 

615
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,040
Yeah, You know, fortunately I 
think you're right. 

616
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,920
To like, to Pete's point, 
though, I feel like there wasn't

617
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,080
like an archetype that they were
put into, and because they were 

618
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,760
relatively unknown at the time, 
that probably helped a little 

619
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,960
bit. 
So, like, I feel like you 

620
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,720
couldn't do it with any sort of 
existing actor today, you know? 

621
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,120
Yeah, that's a good point. 
And I think I didn't really look

622
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,480
at this, but the movie was 
probably not sold on either one 

623
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,320
of them. 
You know, it was sold on, like, 

624
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,400
nuclear paranoia. 
Everything could go wrong and we

625
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,880
could all die tomorrow. 
Like, here's a funny movie about

626
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,560
that. 
Like, there's big. 

627
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,239
Like, Dabney Coleman was 
probably the biggest star at the

628
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,920
time this movie was made. 
I would guess. 

629
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,760
Yeah, I don't. 
I mean Barry Corbin has been in 

630
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,440
5000 movies but I don't know if 
he was like a well known guy 

631
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,480
back then. 
This was like Broderick's first 

632
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,400
movie, wasn't it? 
I think so, yeah. 

633
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,719
So he would have been totally 
unknown, but it was like it was 

634
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,080
right in that. 
What was the other movie that 

635
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:51,239
was much more dramatic about the
protests against nuclear war and

636
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,840
all the sports players is right 
around the same time all the 

637
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,000
sports players got behind the 
kid that was he refused to play 

638
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,520
baseball and he was a really 
good pitcher or something, 

639
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,720
refused to play. 
Oh, I don't remember this. 

640
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,800
But it was right around the same
time, and it was the more like, 

641
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,880
you know, dramatic take on it 
all. 

642
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,200
It's like they're all 
recognizing that, you know, the 

643
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,200
existential threat of nuclear 
war. 

644
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,400
And this one kid inspires a 
whole movement. 

645
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,080
All these sports, these, you 
know, professional players stop 

646
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,480
playing and they join him in his
protest. 

647
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,160
And so. 
Oh my God this sounds like an 

648
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,400
after school special. 
I don't know, sappy as hell 

649
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,920
sappy. 
We can watch this, yeah. 

650
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,080
I don't remember that at all, 
but. 

651
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,120
It did have to be bold to be 
like, yeah, we're going to make 

652
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,280
a little summer blockbuster 
about, you know, mutually 

653
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,240
assured destruction. 
Like at the peak of Cold Wear 

654
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,920
Cold War paranoia is just I, I 
guess there's maybe a pressure 

655
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,600
release or like a escape fantasy
out of well, but it's not 

656
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,680
actually real. 
It's just, it's just a 

657
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,120
simulation that got out of hand,
but still it is, it is a bold 

658
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,040
choice to like have that story 
and do it then. 

659
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,560
Amazing Grace and. 
Chuck Oh, no, I do remember 

660
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,400
that. 
Yeah, Jamie Lee Curtis is in it.

661
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,200
And Gregory Peck. 
Oh my God, the 80s man. 

662
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,120
Yeah. 
The league player named Chuck 

663
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,840
refuses to ever pitch again 
until nuclear weapons are 

664
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,560
disarmed. 
How'd that work out for Chuck? 

665
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,520
Don't wait. 
How we doing? 

666
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,520
Yeah, Still wait. 
Still wait. 

667
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,680
Did we fix it? 
Well, that's the thing, like I 

668
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,640
growing, I grew up right outside
DC in the 80s and I just 

669
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:39,760
remember like always, like the 
real threat of like nuclear war 

670
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,840
was something that like you 
thought about like all the time.

671
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,800
It was like, well, it kind of 
like in the Falcon like fatalist

672
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,400
way. 
You were like, well, I mean, if 

673
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,320
it does happen, we're definitely
like the first ones who were 

674
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,760
going to die like we will. 
Be. 

675
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,520
Oh yeah. 
Roadkill within 4 minutes of 

676
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,040
this happening, we're not going 
to have to worry about anything 

677
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,560
at all. 
But like that whole sequence 

678
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,400
with him and the two kids where 
he's telling them, like, you 

679
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,480
know, maybe we'll push it off 
for a few years for you long 

680
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,280
enough for you to have a son, 
but eventually we're all going 

681
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,800
to kill each other. 
And, you know, Matthew Project's

682
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,880
like, well, I, I wanted to learn
how to swim. 

683
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,520
Like, there's just goofy little 
things like the kids are the 

684
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,680
ones, of course, because they're
still kids. 

685
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,320
Like, well, no, it doesn't have 
to be this way. 

686
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,840
You know you can come help us 
fix this problem that you sort 

687
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,520
of created and I made worse. 
Yeah, I mean, Chernobyl was only

688
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,840
a couple years after this, too. 
There is so much. 

689
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,160
I mean, nuclear fear was such a 
thing in the early 80s. 

690
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,720
We weren't doing the, you know, 
get under the desks anymore, 

691
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,840
like our parents, because they 
were like, well, that's not 

692
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,960
going to do shit. 
So we know enough about this 

693
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,200
now. 
Don't bother. 

694
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,160
Yeah, everything's going to be 
paved over. 

695
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,240
The desks aren't going to help 
you that. 

696
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,560
Was interesting to watch like, 
you know, me, like I'm in a from

697
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,200
a different generation or 
whatever, but like, you know, we

698
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,640
we don't really have that same 
level of fear. 

699
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,080
I mean, we have like school 
shootings and things like that. 

700
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,000
That's much more prevalent. 
But like, I thought that was a 

701
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,040
really interesting part of the 
movie for sure. 

702
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Yeah. 
I mean it was everywhere. 

703
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,240
It was like an an all consuming 
sort of like everyday thing of 

704
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,840
like, you know, the thing that 
you mentioned Pete, the Soviet 

705
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,080
who like declined flip the 
switch or whatever, Like we 

706
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,680
never knew about that. 
But that was the kind of thing 

707
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,520
that you were always sort of 
scared about. 

708
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,680
You know, it was really weird. 
And then when you see it in this

709
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,000
movie, we need to talk about 
like that whole norad crew and 

710
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,080
like the control room and 
everything, just like the 

711
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:49,560
bumbling dopes. 
It's, I love the, you know, like

712
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,960
the thought that, OK, there's 
these 100 people or whatever 

713
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,600
that are in this mountain in 
Wyoming that essentially control

714
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,520
the fate of the world. 
And what the people running this

715
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,080
are a cowboy general who's 
literally like putting chewing 

716
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,520
tobacco in his mouth throughout 
the movie. 

717
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,480
You know, the computer operator 
with a cardigan who's just like,

718
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,920
I don't know what's going on, 
you know, like waving his hands 

719
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,080
around like a Muppet and then a 
bunch of goofy like computer 

720
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,760
operator drones that kind of 
just do what they're told. 

721
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,400
It's unreal. 
It's a it's a great movie sort 

722
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,280
of set up because you have the 
authority and you have like some

723
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,440
anti authority and you have some
bumbling fools. 

724
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,760
But the fact that they just 
bring Lightman there, like they 

725
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,680
kidnap him in Seattle and drive 
him to where this is supposed to

726
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,000
be, I think I. 
AM or something? 

727
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,240
Yeah. 
Like 1200 miles. 

728
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,240
I've looked it up for no reason.
His parents don't know where he 

729
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,600
is. 
He just gets in a van and gets, 

730
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,400
you know, like renditioned to 
Wyoming. 

731
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,840
And then they're like, here, go 
play in the computer room while 

732
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,640
we talk about what to do with 
you, like. 

733
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,000
That was NORAD overall just 
seemed like an HR nightmare. 

734
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,560
Like there's there's like 5 
different, yeah, there's like 5 

735
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,600
different references to drug 
use, including PCP, like the on 

736
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,800
base clinic, the doctor's notes 
are like possible PCP. 

737
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,320
And then yeah, there's the 
there's literally like the HR 

738
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,160
video training happening of 
harassment of the the airmen 

739
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,360
outside with the secretary. 
It's just. 

740
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,120
But that's but that's what all, 
you know, nuclear nihilism 

741
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,960
create. 
Well, why not smoke them if you 

742
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,960
got them, you know. 
Yeah. 

743
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,960
They just like locked Matthew 
Broderick's character into the 

744
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,440
in the room. 
Just like I'm sorry if you're 

745
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,040
suspected of espionage with 
Russia like that's, you know, 

746
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,120
it's not what they're. 
Going to do. 

747
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,960
Yeah, someone keep eyes on them.
The Infirmary is the only locked

748
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,600
room that they have I guess. 
Military base the only place to 

749
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,600
put someone. 
And it takes 2 minutes to find 

750
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,720
like a pair of forceps and a 
pocket tape recorder and rewire 

751
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,000
the keypad so that he can record
the the key sequence from the 

752
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,160
outside, which is another thing 
that I always kind of forget, 

753
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,320
but is a very clever, you know, 
detail that I think mostly would

754
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,120
work, you know. 
Yeah, the way they did it was 

755
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,880
the way they showed it was that 
he was like playing back the 

756
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,640
audio, like it was a touch tone 
kind of thing. 

757
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,560
But really what it would have 
been is like the different tones

758
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,920
just gave you the button 
indicators or something. 

759
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,600
Because I don't think it was 
like an audio signal sort of 

760
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,640
thing, but he recorded the audio
signal from it. 

761
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,320
And it was basically like a red 
box attack, just slightly, 

762
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,400
slightly different. 
And I also marked down another 

763
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,800
one that I always forget, 
shorting out the payphone to 

764
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,960
make a call, which at the time 
was on its way out, but in a lot

765
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,120
of cases would still work. 
They had started making changes 

766
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:12,200
to allow some calls to connect 
to to initiate the like charge 

767
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,120
to make the handset live like if
you dialed 911 but. 

768
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,200
Yeah, I I just love that Whopper
allowed brute forcing password 

769
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,720
it sounds. 
Yeah, no big deal. 

770
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,760
You know, keep trying, keep 
trying. 

771
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,160
It's fine. 
Yes, I. 

772
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,800
Predicted my own. 
I predicted my own future 

773
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,640
because I had my notes from when
we did this before and I had the

774
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,120
note down like, you know, it 
would have been great if they 

775
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,960
had like a SIM because they had 
about a million login attempts. 

776
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,720
Yeah, well, and, and they 
created, you know, the archetype

777
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:47,800
for what everyone thinks is him 
looks like, or a sock looks 

778
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:54,280
like, you know, Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

779
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,640
This is something we definitely 
talked about on the first 

780
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,960
podcast, Pete. 
But I was reminded when I looked

781
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,440
at the the trivia for this about
how they they rendered the video

782
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,320
on the NORAD screens where they 
did it ahead of time. 

783
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,600
Like they recorded it frame by 
frame by frame. 

784
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,800
And then can you kind of explain
like what that whole situation 

785
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:15,720
would have been? 
Which ones? 

786
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:19,680
The the the maps themselves, 
Yeah, those are all like 

787
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,680
projection mapped off the back 
of the screens off some other 

788
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,640
computers and they had to do 
single cell animation to do it. 

789
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,760
So none of that could have been 
in real time. 

790
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,920
And it was far, apparently far 
ahead of what even NORAD could 

791
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,520
do in there. 
It's great. 

792
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,240
Which is awesome. 
And the other. 

793
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,880
Good, good. 
I was just going to mention that

794
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,200
I don't know if you saw this, 
Lindsay that there was inside of

795
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,920
Whopper. 
There was like a dude sitting 

796
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,680
there typing commands into an 
apple two to make the light. 

797
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,360
Sitting inside, he's controlling
the light sequence because he 

798
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,520
couldn't sequence that easily 
and the words coming out on the.

799
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,200
You can see that like, yeah. 
That's just how they did the 

800
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:10,560
practical effects was a guy had 
an Apple 2, which was probably 

801
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,920
more powerful. 
Even the the NORAD stuff at the 

802
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,680
time. 
Yeah, yeah, I was just sitting. 

803
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,120
Inside that plywood box, that 
was Whopper just like, yeah, 

804
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,960
just like. 
Yeah, making, making, making. 

805
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:30,800
Quickly on a typewriter. 
Go Yeah, it the movie was as 

806
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,720
nominated for an Oscar for 
sound. 

807
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,880
Yeah. 
So I guess that that was that 

808
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,920
was enough. 
That. 

809
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,440
Whoever was in that whopper did 
a good job on that part. 

810
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,360
Well, the there's I'm one of 
these weird people, like the 

811
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,840
score of a movie very rarely 
like registers in my brain for 

812
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,000
some reason. 
Like I just don't hear like the 

813
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,120
underlying like all hear needle 
drops and things like that and 

814
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,520
remember those. 
But like the score very rarely 

815
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,520
registers with me for some 
reason. 

816
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,520
But this one for whatever 
reason, did like the plinky 

817
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,400
piano and like the synthy stuff 
is this is all like right in the

818
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,760
middle of like new wave. 
Everything's got to be 

819
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,520
synthesizer type stuff. 
I wanted to get your take on the

820
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,480
on the score. 
Zoe, how did you feel about 

821
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,360
this? 
Like it's pretty. 

822
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,280
It's not terrible like I kind of
did. 

823
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:27,040
And I think because I saw I saw 
the question, so I was listening

824
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,720
with an eye to that ear to that 
as I was watching this time. 

825
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,000
And I do think that like they 
leaned heavier into the synth 

826
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,880
whenever Matthew Broderick or 
somebody is like interacting 

827
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,120
with the computer, like 
especially as it gets later on 

828
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,040
and a little bit more action 
movie, like the helicopter 

829
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,720
showing up and they're all 
getting rushed into NORAD and 

830
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:51,080
stuff like it's more orchestral 
in those parts. 

831
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,640
But like when he's doing the 
research and he's trying out the

832
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,400
different passwords, like all of
that is very modular, synthy. 

833
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,760
Yeah, it is. 
It's it's one of the things 

834
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,360
that, like, marks it as an early
80s movie too. 

835
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,760
Like aside from the actual 
technology in the movie and 

836
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,240
like, you know, the dirt bike or
whatever. 

837
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,480
Like, yeah, this is this is 
1983. 

838
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,840
Like the music looked like it 
was made by the computers in the

839
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,160
movie, right? 
I found the the notes on that, 

840
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,960
the the big screen stuff, they 
were all, it was all rendered in

841
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,720
advance on an HP computer, just 
straight BASIC. 

842
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:38,320
And then that computer at the 
time it was a was H HP9845-C. 

843
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,280
It was $90,000 and it weighed 
100 a 100 lbs. 

844
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,200
And it was the H PS like 
flagship desktop computer. 

845
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,000
That's a tiny computer for that 
time. 

846
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,480
Yeah, but they had to render one
frame at a time. 

847
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,280
They, they, they filmed it from 
the display, like on the 

848
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,720
computer display, one frame at a
time, one color at a time. 

849
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,280
And then they, they just used 
filters. 

850
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,160
It was still monochromatic. 
They used lens filters to give 

851
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:11,520
the different parts of the the 
map different colors. 

852
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,440
So the missile coming over in 
red, that's a gel that they put 

853
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,520
on the lens to make that part of
the screen red because it was 

854
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,600
still monochromatic. 
And it took one minute per every

855
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,840
frame of the of the. 
Films so just tedious as hell. 

856
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,920
Every time you saw that missile 
kind of turn the arc, that was 

857
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:38,000
one minute of them probably also
cutting the gel to fit that spot

858
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,320
too. 
So I'm, yeah, crazy practical 

859
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,800
effects for a digital technique.
That's insane. 

860
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,040
Can you, like, I'm surprised 
some producer didn't just come 

861
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,640
in and be like, like, hey, guess
what, We're cutting all of that 

862
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,360
shit. 
You get to show the map one time

863
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,560
and that's it. 
Like, yeah, yeah. 

864
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,280
We need to. 
Redo that actually. 

865
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,720
The missile needs to go the 
other way. 

866
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:01,920
God damn it. 
There goes another. 

867
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,960
There goes another week. 
That could be why there's only 

868
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,520
like 2 other sets in this movie,
you know, like David's house and

869
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,640
yeah, Falcon's house. 
That's kind of it. 

870
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,520
Yeah, there weren't really any 
other special effects. 

871
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,240
You never, you never saw a 
missile actually flying. 

872
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,160
Just at the very beginning, I I 
wondered how long did it take 

873
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,680
the military to record all of 
the fake footage of the missiles

874
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,600
getting ready to launch and the 
towers opening? 

875
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,600
Because like they show cuts of 
that and I think there is like a

876
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,560
monitor in there area. 
Like at least one of those video

877
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,520
feeds was in their area. 
So like, they must have rented 

878
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,000
out the studio where they faked 
the moon landing or something to

879
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,680
get, you know, get those, get 
those videos to prep for this 

880
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,520
stress test. 
Yes, yeah, it's crazy. 

881
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,160
I wanted to ask each of you what
was your, if you had to like 

882
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:01,000
what pair another movie with 
this, you know, either like a 

883
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,800
modern one or like one from the 
same time period. 

884
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,200
Doesn't even have to be a hacker
movie, but something that you 

885
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,240
think like would make a fun, you
know, sit down and watch them 

886
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,760
back-to-back. 
Crazy Grace and Chuck, 

887
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,960
obviously. 
I I sent you guys the poster of 

888
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,040
this when I saw it, and I don't 
think it would have been my 

889
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,800
pairing before, but I think that
what is it for? 

890
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,240
For Fortran, The Colossus 
project, yeah. 

891
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,280
Oh my God. 
Because I wouldn't have thought 

892
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,520
of this as like, you know, I, I 
would have paired this with like

893
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,200
sneakers. 
There's a lot of shared DNA kind

894
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,360
of similar vibes, even though 
it's made a lot later. 

895
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,160
But it was really interesting 
watching this like for the first

896
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:50,400
time since we've seen a lot of 
widespread adoption of AI for 

897
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,440
like pretty important decision 
making and automation. 

898
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,720
And so I think that also Wargans
is a much more watchable movie 

899
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:01,400
than that. 
So if you do a double feature 

900
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,720
and you put that second, that's 
how you keep people from 

901
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:05,800
leaving. 
But I think that would be my 

902
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,400
pairing. 
Yeah, what about you, Linds? 

903
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,520
I feel like any movie with like 
with AII think would be 

904
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,680
interesting to watch with this. 
Like I actually thought even 

905
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,600
though I didn't like this movie,
but the Mission Impossible 

906
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:26,360
movie, what was it? 
Dead man, Dead Reckoning Part 1 

907
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,720
with the, you know, they had 
their own kind of rendition of 

908
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:33,240
like, you know, a rogue AI type 
of application. 

909
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:36,440
I thought that was, you know, 
there were a couple interesting 

910
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,480
parallels with with that one in 
this. 

911
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,200
And you know, even even as like,
you know, time has gone on. 

912
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,360
There's it's just how it plays 
out in movies and in film is so,

913
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,640
so interesting to see. 
So and you know, it was funny is

914
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,920
that that that movie was 
specifically more about like the

915
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,600
AI like Enigma was like 
malicious, but it wasn't really 

916
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,880
that way in in war games at all.
Like I think, you know, the the 

917
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,520
computer was just doing what it 
was programmed to do. 

918
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,400
And like they had to teach it 
to, you know, eventually that 

919
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,880
every everything it has the same
life lesson as tic tac toe. 

920
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:22,000
So, so, yeah, I don't know. 
I thought that would that was an

921
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,640
interesting pairing. 
Yeah, everything is futile. 

922
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:29,520
That's the lesson, right? 
What about you, Pete? 

923
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,720
You got a good suggestion. 
I've got I've got three that all

924
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:36,960
came because I saw War Games a 
couple years after it came out, 

925
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:42,200
like VHS, like 1985. 
The other there were three other

926
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,120
movies. 
They're all kind of in a similar

927
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,680
vein, at least in my mind, that 
came out the same year. 85 was a

928
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,440
good year for smart mischief 
makers. 

929
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:56,640
Real genius, which for me like 
war games and real genius might 

930
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,200
as well be the also in the same 
cinematic universe. 

931
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,440
You know, they're the the 
lasers, the existential threat 

932
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,760
of providing of using academia 
for militaristic stuff. 

933
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,440
Val Kilmer is just like top 
notch in that one in his 

934
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,920
trueness. 
Weird science. 

935
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,880
Same year, another one, you 
know, much more sort of, you 

936
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,320
know, meatballs version of the 
same kind of thing. 

937
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,680
But the computing sequences in 
that one are super fun. 

938
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,160
And then the other one that's 
not like quite the same, but it 

939
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:31,680
does. 
I think it was the first one 

940
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,840
that came to mind was the 
Explorers. 

941
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Remember that one with the River
Phoenix in them where it's, you 

942
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,960
know, the the montage in that 
one is one of the best when 

943
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,560
they're building this like sort 
of spaceship thing out of tilt a

944
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,600
world parts and stuff. 
And they kind of hack their 

945
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,120
Commodore 64 to be the 
controller for it because they 

946
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,800
figure out how to make this 
force field that lets them go up

947
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,880
to the alien ship. 
And it's just sort of a similar 

948
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,400
thing. 
All these like mid 80s movies 

949
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:04,040
about just sort of incredibly 
smart nerds, that it's not about

950
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,240
them being nerds. 
Like Revenge of the Nerds is 

951
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:08,960
kind of the same, but it's so 
much about them being nerds, not

952
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,040
about them being smart. 
And these were all like really 

953
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:17,000
nicely aggrandizing about the 
smarts of them or the adventure 

954
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:21,040
adventurism of them being smart 
enough to go do cool things. 

955
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,400
So I love all those. 
Those are great. 

956
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,760
Yeah, real genius would have 
been my is my answer. 

957
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,520
Yeah, that's that's something IA
movie I absolutely love and is 

958
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,640
definitely on this on the list 
for this podcast. 

959
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:38,360
You could totally see Lightman 
being Val Kilmer, you know. 100%

960
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:44,000
and just like Uncle Rico living 
in the closet in his dorm room 

961
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:45,760
and like. 
Hacking the lottery? 

962
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,000
Incredible. 
And ending up with, like, a 

963
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,960
winnow bagel full of toys and, 
like, a girlfriend at the end. 

964
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,640
And, you know, now he's on White
Lotus, which is, like, the 

965
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,960
weirdest shit to me ever. 
Like, oh, wow. 

966
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,200
I don't. 
Yeah. 

967
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,640
Lindsay, have you seen Real 
Genius? 

968
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,120
I haven't seen it now, but now I
need. 

969
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,200
Great one. 
OK, you so need to go. 

970
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:09,920
So it's also amazing montage in 
that one too, when it just, so 

971
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,280
it's a high school kid that goes
to college early and like the 

972
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,480
montage in the middle of it, 
they're all like doing their big

973
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,480
sort of laser project. 
And he keeps going to class 

974
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,480
while everyone's certain to 
study for finals. 

975
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,920
And like every time he goes to 
the lecture, there's fewer and 

976
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,880
fewer people there. 
There's just tape recorders 

977
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,160
until eventually the professor's
not there either. 

978
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,200
He just has a reel to reel 
machine set up to play his 

979
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,880
lecture to the tape recorders. 
So good. 

980
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,880
Yes and yeah. 
So God, what the hell is Uncle 

981
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,840
Rico's the actor's name? 
John Grease. 

982
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:51,160
Yeah, he's he plays like the 
kind of overarching bad guy in 

983
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,880
White Lotus like that. 
I forget his character's name. 

984
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,640
Like he's he's in that movie in 
real genius as like this kind of

985
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,840
shadow, not shadowy. 
But his name is Zaslow, right? 

986
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,480
Or Laszlo. 
Laszlo. 

987
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:13,640
Laszlo and it's like hacker like
you just have to go watch it. 

988
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,640
None of this makes any sense. 
It's a very 80s movie because of

989
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,480
course there's just like a 
bikini pool montage in the 

990
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,600
middle of it for no real reason.
There's Oh yeah, it's. 

991
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,160
Great, it's a little bit like 
popcorn. 

992
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,840
Contractual obligation for a mid
80s movie. 

993
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,400
Some. 
Of the best, some of the best, 

994
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,520
like practical effects and if I 
remember correctly, like most or

995
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:40,200
all of those were based off of 
pranks that had happened at MIT.

996
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,920
At MIT, yes. 
Yeah. 

997
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,880
So it's based on like it's 
supposed supposed it's said it 

998
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,320
like a fake Caltech type 
university, but a lot of it is 

999
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,520
based on shit that happened at 
MIT years, like legendarily, you

1000
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,720
know, things that went on there 
the the pranks, which is pretty 

1001
00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:01,520
interesting. 
So our friend Wendy neither 

1002
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:07,680
knows one of the people that one
of those characters was based 

1003
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,760
on. 
So she like when we started 

1004
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,800
doing these podcasts again, she 
like texted me. 

1005
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,800
It was like, I'm on the real 
genius podcast. 

1006
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,520
This is not a question. 
I was like, OK, that's fair. 

1007
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,520
We'll do it that way. 
So yeah. 

1008
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,920
Any other last thoughts though? 
I we didn't even talk about the 

1009
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,640
two nerds in the computer 
science lab. 

1010
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:29,600
That just delightful. 
That's another short one that. 

1011
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:35,480
Literally the dude from Revenge 
of the Nerds and then the the 

1012
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,920
most prototypical Unix sysadmin 
you could ever create in the, 

1013
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,240
like, sloppy bearded guy that is
just like under the the desk, 

1014
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:48,440
like doing things before that 
was like a, you know, he looks 

1015
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,920
like Comic Book Guy before, like
any of that was even a thing. 

1016
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,920
Yeah. 
Yeah, his shirt is too short. 

1017
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,960
You know, coming. 
Up, Mr. Potato Head. 

1018
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,520
But the other guy was not the 
dude from Revenge of the Nerds. 

1019
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,680
I always. 
Eddie, Eddie DS I mean, they 

1020
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,880
might as the Venn diagram is a 
lot of overlap there. 

1021
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,080
But yeah, I love that that that 
should have been a spin off. 

1022
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,080
Had War Games been made now, 
those two guys would have gotten

1023
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,320
a spin off. 
They'd have a Netflix show right

1024
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:19,600
now. 
The. 

1025
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:24,440
Continuing adventures of 
Bumblefuck and not the guy from 

1026
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,640
Revenge of the Nerds. 
I don't even know what their 

1027
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,560
character names are. 
It doesn't matter to me because 

1028
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:34,000
they just when he, it's obvious 
that like Lightman has some kind

1029
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,280
of relationship with these two 
guys because he goes and knocks 

1030
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,080
on the window and is like, hey, 
it's me. 

1031
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,400
They're like, oh, Lightman, come
on in or whatever. 

1032
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Like he's obviously been going 
over there to like hang out with

1033
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,920
these dudes and learn from them 
or whatever. 

1034
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,600
But yeah, like, it's just those 
two guys. 

1035
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,040
I could have used a couple more 
minutes with them, honestly. 

1036
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,480
Like some more backdoor puns 
would have been fun, yeah. 

1037
00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,600
I remember jotting that down in 
the notes. 

1038
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,760
I think, you know, looking at 
like, the legacy impact that 

1039
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,040
this film had. 
You already brought up Dennis, 

1040
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:13,800
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. 
The other big lasting impression

1041
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,960
is that there was kind of a 
seismic shift in computing to 

1042
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,280
require a default password 
instead of no password on new 

1043
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,280
systems. 
Because before this, there was 

1044
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,840
just kind of the like, there was
like a like, polite 

1045
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,880
understanding that you weren't 
going to mess with the system 

1046
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:37,280
unless you were supposed to. 
So like this was a big of, yeah,

1047
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:42,120
of of I guess the first example 
of shifting left, you know? 

1048
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,040
To to be fair, there's still 
kind of that polite 

1049
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,560
understanding that nobody 
follows with all these default 

1050
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,040
passwords. 
They're just admin. 

1051
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,880
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's still a lot of 

1052
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,400
presumed expectation of just be 
cool, be cool. 

1053
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,760
An unnamed vendor that none of 
us know has had a news story I 

1054
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,320
swear about every other week for
the last several months of 

1055
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:09,120
another system that had a hard 
coded a a static credential 

1056
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,960
vulnerability that's been 
exploited. 

1057
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,240
So yeah, we're still, we're 
still dealing with it today it. 

1058
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:19,520
Happened Lindsey. 
Yeah, I feel like the historical

1059
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,680
significance of this film is 
funny though 'cause I, when I'm 

1060
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,440
trying to think of like more 
recent, you know, films that 

1061
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,120
feature hacking or hacker hacker
movies, like, you know, they're,

1062
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,160
I don't, I don't know if we're 
at a point in the security 

1063
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,640
industry where like something 
like a movie would trigger such 

1064
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,520
an impact. 
And I don't know, like what I 

1065
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,120
mean, there's not really a lot 
of movies that they all kind of 

1066
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,400
like pale in comparison to 
something like this. 

1067
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,920
So I thought just all those like
historical ties and like the, 

1068
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,320
the impacts that came out of 
this was really interesting and 

1069
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,000
yeah, it would be really cool. 
And then like Dennis, you're 

1070
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,160
talking about like Barbie being 
like the top movie recent years.

1071
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,320
So like I, I hope like another 
movie like this could come along

1072
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,000
the future kind of view 
security. 

1073
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,480
I also love how much like 
nomenclature in this industry, 

1074
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,560
like you can really trace back 
directly to war games like war 

1075
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,480
dialing, war driving. 
Like I didn't realize that that 

1076
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,360
came from war games. 
I kind of thought both of those 

1077
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,440
all came from the same place. 
No, it came from war games the 

1078
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:32,840
movie, which is just awesome. 
Like I I aspire to ever coin 

1079
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,480
something that's like, long 
lasting. 

1080
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,880
I know so and the crazy thing is
the two guys that wrote this, 

1081
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,000
Parks and Lasker, I think their 
last names are while they were 

1082
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,200
writing this, we're also sort of
kicking around the idea for what

1083
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,680
became sneakers. 
So like they were, you know, 

1084
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,600
they had, they had gone to a 
couple like early computer 

1085
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,880
conventions, like kind of the 
hobbyist side of things, not the

1086
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,920
the ones that we've all gone to.
And it met some guys that were 

1087
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,880
like, Oh yeah, there's this like
generation of young kids that 

1088
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,840
are coming up that are really 
good at this stuff. 

1089
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,920
And then there's the, you know, 
what would have been an older 

1090
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,520
generation at that point, if you
think about the sneakers group 

1091
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,720
of like guys that were doing 
those physical security 

1092
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,800
assessments and it had, you 
know, probably some kind of 

1093
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,520
background doing this stuff 
before, you know, hackers became

1094
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,160
a thing. 
So you know, the fact that they 

1095
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:30,720
came up with the 2 my two 
favorite hacker movie 

1096
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,200
screenplays in the course of 
about 8 years is just wild. 

1097
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,720
It's crazy. 
And I think the other sort of 

1098
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:43,400
cultural impact was like hackers
not being the bad guys in the 

1099
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,080
film. 
Like there's only so many of 

1100
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,440
those, especially at the time, 
like in the 80s, like hackers 

1101
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,400
were the notorious bad guy 
villain in in a lot of these 

1102
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,480
movies. 
So to see one, even if it was 

1103
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:01,240
sort of accidental but like to 
make the hacker the hero of the 

1104
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,240
whole thing was very cool and I 
think made almost a longer 

1105
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,800
lasting impression than any of 
the sort of techniques or plot 

1106
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,640
or nuclear Armageddon aspects of
it for people in our industry at

1107
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,160
least. 
Yeah, I think so. 

1108
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,600
Same thing for the the I guess 
AI, the same thing for Whopper, 

1109
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:24,160
where it isn't like malicious 
and intent on human destruction.

1110
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:27,680
It's this idea of like it is 
following the logic based on 

1111
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:31,480
what it's been programmed to do.
There's no malice, it's just 

1112
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,520
trying to achieve the objective 
that it was trained for, which 

1113
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:39,440
is like, I think it it took a 
lot longer before we saw more of

1114
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:46,440
that as the driving factor for 
AI as Mac Guffin or AI as like 

1115
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,000
the threat. 
Right now, you're exactly right.

1116
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:51,680
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1117
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,560
All right. 
Well, you guys, we did it. 

1118
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,960
Thank you all so much for coming
back and doing this. 

1119
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,960
Lindsay, great to have you on a 
Hacker Movie podcast finally. 

1120
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,320
It's really fun, yeah. 
Exactly, Falcons. 

1121
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,280
Version. 
Falcons version. 

1122
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:07,960
That's right. 
There we go. 

1123
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,040
You nailed it, Zoe. 
All right, you guys. 

1124
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,240
Thanks so much. 
Great to see you all, take care.

1125
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:12,800
Thanks.