1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,480 Hey everyone, it's Brian Brown. I've got something a little bit 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,040 different for you today. I was recently on the Beauty 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,080 Through Faith podcast with Gustav Hoyer and Benjamin 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:15,000 Harding, who are mission partners at the Callos Arts 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,960 Foundation, So you can check them out at callosarts.org. 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,200 I'm going to be speaking this weekend, weekend of September 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,480 26th, 27th up in Fort Collins with them, and we wanted to be 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,240 able to share our entire conversation both with their 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,920 audience and with ours. The first part of the 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,040 conversation, the one you're about to hear, is them mostly 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,040 interviewing me on the topic of beauty and faith. 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,240 And honestly, it gave me a chance to tell some stories and 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,600 explain some things that went into the founding of the Anselm 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,720 Society and have added up to who we are over the years. 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,000 They're stories that some of our inner circle know, but not 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,240 always stories that I tell a lot at a podium or on the podcast. 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,720 So some good stuff in there. And the second part of the 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,400 conversation, which will be the episode that I post right after 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:10,280 this, will, I flipped the script and interviewed them about their 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,000 work and their organization. Both are well worth your time. 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,480 I hope and I hope you enjoy them. 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,000 Welcome to Beauty Through Faith. I'm your host, Benjamin Harding, 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,320 and today I'm really excited to sit down with Brian Brown, the 24 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:26,160 executive director of the Anselm Society. 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,040 Brians not only a good friend of our work, he's also going to be 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:35,040 one of our featured speakers at our upcoming Rocky Mountain 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,840 Callous Beauty Through Faith Conference on September 26th and 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,520 27th. Now, if you haven't grabbed your 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,120 tickets yet, you'll want to because we've put together such 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,320 a rich lineup. We'll kick things off Friday 31 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:55,120 night, September 26th, at 7:30 with a plenary session led by 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Doctor Junius Johnson. He's going to help us think more 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,400 clearly about the nature and the reward of encountering beauty 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,039 right alongside his words. We'll get to hear the artistry 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,800 of Doctor Paul Barnes. Then Saturday is packed with 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,240 variety. You're not going to want to miss 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,040 it. And of course, included in our 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,120 incredible speakers list is Brian Brown. 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,400 And if you're in the Colorado Springs area, the weekend before 40 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:34,320 this weekend, September 19th and 20th, the and some society is 41 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:40,760 hosting a long expected feast to celebrate the birthdays of Frodo 42 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,880 and Bilbo Baggins. It's going to be a weekend of 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,640 learning, feasting and those moments where you meet someone. 44 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,440 And thank you too. I thought I was the only one. 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,680 You can find all the details at Ensem Society dot. 46 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,480 Org there's. So much happening in the world 47 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,800 of beauty right now. Let's jump in. 48 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,360 Brian Brown, welcome to Beauty Through Faith. 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,360 Thank you very much. It's fun to be with you. 50 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,840 And we are joined by our Executive Director, Gustav 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,120 Hoyer. Hi, Gustav. 52 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,280 Hey, Benjamin, Brian, it's a pleasure to have you on. 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,120 Really looking forward to hearing from you today. 54 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,680 What's caused some trouble? That's the spirit. 55 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,880 And so the first question to cause trouble is, hey, what has 56 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,440 been your pursuit of beauty in your life? 57 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,800 What does that mean to you? So I have to it. 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,880 It's funny. This is so incarnational for me 59 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,000 because I'll just tell you a story. 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,800 I was in in 2007. I was doing a post grad program 61 00:03:53,800 --> 00:04:01,160 in theology and I was doing daily prayer at the Anglican 62 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,960 church across the street, this beautiful 1925 Gothic Revival 63 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,920 church with a lovely little side Chapel like a lot of those more 64 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,920 ancient churches and the churches that were built in that 65 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,560 style have. And I walk over there and the 66 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,760 chapel's beautifully lit and there's this absolutely gorgeous 67 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,880 girl kneeling at the front of the Chapel with golden hair and 68 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,920 the lights falling on it just right. 69 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,760 And I've never seen her before. And I ended up found out later 70 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,160 her name was Christina. I ended up chasing her for 71 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,400 everything that I was worth and we've been married for 15 years 72 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,560 now and and we we sang in the in the church choir that week 73 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:54,480 together. And I, I remember writing to her 74 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,160 in in a letter while we were dating long distance that she 75 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,400 was beauty to me. She was this incarnation of it 76 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,600 as well as someone that revealed it to me. 77 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,520 And so like my whole life, that's, that's an encapsulation 78 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,920 of, of, of my whole life of chasing beauty. 79 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,840 I wasn't, I wasn't conscious until I was pursuing her of a 80 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:22,440 phrase like that. I'd been raised with a love of 81 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,120 great books and great music, and I was very fortunate to, to have 82 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,640 that in my my childhood art history. 83 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,520 And a lot of it was, was sort of high end are the sorts of things 84 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,120 that that you sort of only get as a child if you have a very 85 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,080 attentive parent or teacher or school. 86 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,240 But I also there there were also the the bits of it that were 87 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,080 just kind of folded in with the rest of of life. 88 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,400 My brothers and sisters and I would read or watch a wonderful 89 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,800 story and then we would charge outside with costumes and swords 90 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,920 and things to act it out. We actually just showed the 91 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,880 Prince of Persia to my kids last night. 92 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,480 And my 9 year old son's first reaction was daddy, I need 93 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:13,440 someone to sword fight with. And there's a proper reaction to 94 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:13,800 that. So. 95 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,800 But I was never aware of this as a conscious thing. 96 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,360 It was just the way that I live. And then I start chasing this 97 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,240 girl and all of a sudden I start getting a vocabulary for it, 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,720 both in the sense that I'm experiencing it in, in life and 99 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,720 she's unpacking it for me because she's just further along 100 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:38,240 in, in that journey. The, the, the reason that I 101 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,640 brought up chasing a girl was not to look impressive by 102 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:51,440 referencing Dante, although I could, but because I think the, 103 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,000 the pursuit of beauty is ultimately the pursuit of God. 104 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,920 You're, you're looking simultaneously at this material 105 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,400 earthly thing that you can't quite explain, but that wants to 106 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,160 draw you in and wants to draw this response from you. 107 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:14,840 And a lot of the time we don't have a vocabulary for it, but 108 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,760 romantic love is one of those things, things that is, is, is 109 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,000 most powerful in that, that way. And as I got further into my 110 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,440 theological journey, I start reading people like Alexander 111 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,720 Schmeman who are unpacking this idea that the, the whole earth 112 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,680 was designed to be a place of communion with God. 113 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,960 You start to give a a vocabulary and a a structure to oh, that's 114 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,360 what this is this idea that goodness and truth and beauty 115 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,720 are are inseparable aspects of one thing of one God, and it's 116 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,560 ultimately him that we're pursuing not in AI don't need 117 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,360 this other stuff. I only need God sort of way, but 118 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,000 precisely the opposite of that. My my pursuit of this other 119 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,520 stuff is is the direct path to pursuing him. 120 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,160 If it's if it if it's done right, if I'm listening for his 121 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,680 voice. So for me, it chasing a girl was 122 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,160 the encapsulation of that and sort of my doorway into the the 123 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,560 deeper realm. Yeah. 124 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,240 And, and let's talk about that deeper realm, so to speak. 125 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:30,520 You've been pursuing beauty for many years into that deeper 126 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,360 realm. Talk to us a little bit about 127 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,440 the Anselm society. You're the executive director of 128 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,039 this. This is such a a passion project 129 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:42,039 for you. Talk to us about the Ansem 130 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:46,320 Society and what it means to you in that pursuit of beauty. 131 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:53,640 Well, I wish I could say it was a strategically master planned 132 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,800 effort. I love thinking 10 steps ahead. 133 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,560 I love planning things. I'm quite good at it. 134 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:04,640 Ansem was never that. Dana and I moved to Colorado 135 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Springs in 2009. There there are cities in the 136 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,480 world where you can go to usually not the whole city, but 137 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,240 some portion of the city, and you'll just be assaulted by the 138 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,040 sort of aggressive ugliness. You'll see those brutalist 139 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,480 concrete buildings that were built in the 60s or 70s. 140 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,400 Colorado Springs is not that Colorado Springs is has less of 141 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,120 an aggressive ugliness than an aggressive banality. 142 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:40,760 There's just a lot of asphalt and concrete and cars and strip 143 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,880 malls and whataburgers and things. 144 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,760 James Howard comes to calls places like that place is not 145 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,120 worth caring about. Like no one, no one put love 146 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,640 into a lot of the square footage in this city, even though for 147 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,760 the last 40 years it's been a Mecca of evangelical ministries. 148 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,400 There was almost this, this sense of there's this beautiful 149 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,160 14,000 foot mountain right next to it. 150 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:09,880 Well, I guess God's done the work. 151 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:16,280 I guess we don't have to do anything on a material level so 152 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,720 focused on the next life that we're not putting an investment 153 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,680 into the, the here and now. And honestly, those those 154 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:29,440 incessant encounters with with mundanity desensitize you to 155 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,400 high beauty, both your need for it and your response to it when 156 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,560 you encounter it, when you're just kind of used to Everything 157 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:42,880 around me is is mass produced. Everything around me did not 158 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,000 have love put into it. Everything around me was not 159 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,800 somebody trying to build something that would last for 160 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,680 people they cared about. And Christina and I felt like, 161 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:56,880 are we the only ones that feel this way? 162 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,080 We spent a couple years honestly whining a lot and trying to get 163 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,320 away. And eventually we realized, OK, 164 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,720 this, this seems to be where we are planted, at least for now. 165 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,520 We need an attitude change. We're not capable of that 166 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,720 attitude change. Let's start praying. 167 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,320 And almost immediately we start praying for God to change our 168 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:29,120 attitudes, and we find ourselves in a small church and we start 169 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,560 meeting people in that church. And I talked to my pastor about 170 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,720 how I can do some good in the congregation. 171 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,920 And we cook up this idea for a lecture series. 172 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,080 Let's beef up the life of the mind in the congregation. 173 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,000 OK, great. We'll do 4 lectures over the 174 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,360 course of the next year. We'll bring in speakers from the 175 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,160 outside who can challenge us and help get us to think more deeply 176 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,160 and that sort of thing. Well, we bring in a guy named 177 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,520 Michael Ward who talks about CS Lewis and his faith without 178 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:07,720 imagination dead. And we bring in a a guy from a 179 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,520 classical architecture background. 180 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,760 He talks about principles of Christian urbanism in this 181 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,080 asphalt and concrete city that I just described. 182 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,760 We bring in Peter Lighthart, who could have talked about 183 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,480 anything. The guy's written, what, 80 184 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,640 books on a million different subjects. 185 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,880 Well, he wants to talk about Dostoyevsky. 186 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:34,280 OK Well, now we've just done CS Lewis, Dostoyevsky, architecture 187 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,560 and urbanism. And what we find is people are 188 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,400 coming out of the woodwork not just from our church, but from 189 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,360 churches all over. And the thing we're hearing over 190 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:50,680 and over and over is AI didn't know this sort of thing had a 191 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,640 place in the Kingdom of God. And I love this stuff. 192 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,720 I love great stories. I love great music. 193 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,040 My church has no explanation for why this thing that matters so 194 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,000 much to me matters at all. And 1 by 1, they're all meeting 195 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,800 each other and saying you too. I thought I was the only one. 196 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,360 And we're saying that right, because we thought we were the 197 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,120 only ones. This has been the thing that has 198 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,160 been the center point for the Ansem society ever since it was. 199 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,760 It's never been. We've been around for 12 years 200 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,080 now and it's never been a master planned thing. 201 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Every time I try to get too far ahead with the master planning, 202 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,440 God sort of slaps me on the wrist and some great dream sort 203 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,720 of shatters and something doesn't work out. 204 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,040 And OK, now it's just being small and faithful to that next 205 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,800 little thing and to the people that are right in front of us. 206 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,640 And the people right in front of us at this point are hundreds of 207 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,160 of local people that are very involved, thousands of people 208 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,520 that are sort of more peripherally involved. 209 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,560 Who all had that conversation? You 2. 210 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:56,080 I thought I was the only one. The stories that matter the most 211 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,400 to me, the songs and music and art and architecture and nature, 212 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,720 all these things that my soul tells me matter deeply, not only 213 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,200 matter at all in the Kingdom of God, they matter more in the 214 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,400 Kingdom of God. And now I'm surrounded by people 215 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,280 who feel the same way. And we are encouraging each 216 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,000 other in the going deeper and deeper into that beauty and 217 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,520 creating more and more as a response to it and then dialogue 218 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,040 with it. Gustav, you have met Bryant. 219 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:38,000 You both live in Colorado. Brian, you know, after that just 220 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,240 beautiful explanation of what the Anselm Society is doing and 221 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,400 has come from, I kind of want to run through a wall right now. 222 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,640 So, Gustav, could you take it from here? 223 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:54,040 And ask. Sure, there's there's so much 224 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,840 you just shared with us Brian, that we can talk for hours about 225 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,400 going back earlier to your own journey. 226 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,320 I've been fascinated as I've been engaging thinkers in this 227 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,560 space more comprehensively in recent with with Kalos and 228 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,840 becoming aware of Ansong as a as a community as well. 229 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:20,240 This nature of the connection of Eros, of of love, of desiring to 230 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,560 the experience of beauty. I. 231 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,200 Really like how you. Touched that and the sense that 232 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,000 that. Is. 233 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:33,520 Too passionately pursue beauty is in itself the holy expression 234 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,280 of Eros. As opposed to. 235 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,400 An erotic culture, a culture that has debased that which 236 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:46,360 should be exalted and and made sex a replacement of of genuine 237 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,880 proper. Eros is not derivative of but 238 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:53,960 supplanting and then connecting that passion that really 239 00:15:53,960 --> 00:16:00,800 ultimately the experience of the aesthetic wants to not possess 240 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,120 but commune with. And we think of the wrong 241 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,720 distorted end of Eros is to commandeer and own. 242 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,920 And what you describe is knowing fact, as that leads ultimately 243 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,040 to the. To the. 244 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,920 Aesthetic glories of God himself. 245 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,280 We couldn't possibly arrogate ourselves to even consider such 246 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,880 a thing, but to commune with that beauty. 247 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,400 Is. Ultimately, underneath the 248 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,880 aesthetic impulse and and you describe then that passion is 249 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,160 fused with that aesthetic craving. 250 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,600 There is an an Eros in that. Would you just elaborate? 251 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,280 I'd I'd love to hear your thoughts are really compelling. 252 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,200 So take that and run with it. Yeah, well, I mean, go back to 253 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,560 the the parking lot and the Whataburger. 254 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,080 The there's so much in our world that people don't say this out 255 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,680 loud usually, but so much on in our world as we experience is 256 00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:01,200 built this way that there is a, a division between matter and 257 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,760 spirit, between stuff, physical stuff and the things that quote 258 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,680 UN quote really matter. And a lot of us come from church 259 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,119 backgrounds where that was implicitly or explicitly even 260 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:19,480 even stated that that the Kingdom of God was entirely 261 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,440 spiritual. The sort of an implication that 262 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,319 we're going to be all disembodied souls in in some 263 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,200 sort of cloud someday. That's not the story of 264 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Scripture. And I've seen so many situations 265 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:39,560 where good but under catechized Christians are surprised by 266 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:40,680 that. Where did you where do you get 267 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,000 this story? Where, where God where the 268 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,640 future is God coming back to heal his creation as opposed to 269 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,800 disappearing us out of our clothes and and turning us into 270 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,280 spirits somewhere? Literally the Book of 271 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,920 Revelation. It's not like Revelations really 272 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,520 complicated and hard because it's apocalyptic literature. 273 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,880 That part. It's not hard. 274 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:10,560 That part it's quite clear and that so much of life is this 275 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:11,720 way. Nothing matters. 276 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,440 It's it's nihilistic and the church kind of buys into it. 277 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,680 Yes, we will concede to you the idea that nothing really 278 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,000 matters, but that's because there's this far off realm that 279 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,000 has nothing to do with the here and now that we're going to 280 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:31,200 escape to someday. And The funny thing is, I think 281 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,120 a lot of people end up, you kind of end up in 2 places. 282 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,600 One ultimately leads to the other. 283 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,800 You can either go full nihilist and go yet nothing matters, 284 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:46,160 despair. Or you can then go, well there's 285 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,280 nothing, nothing really matters I guess except my own pleasure. 286 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,680 I'm going to define myself by my desires. 287 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,520 And ultimately, if you're really honest with yourself, sooner or 288 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,640 later you end up looking in the mirror and going, I don't like 289 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,160 what I see. I don't like what I have built 290 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,160 with my desires. But The funny thing is our, our 291 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:17,120 future as as, as Christians is, is actually one where our 292 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,840 define, we're defined in a weird way by our desires. 293 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,320 Not because our desires are the end goal, and not because 294 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,880 worshipping something in the creation for itself is the end 295 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,040 goal, but because God is the one that put desires in us. 296 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,720 We were made for this longing for what is ultimately for Him. 297 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,680 And He didn't make a disembodied souls just waiting around for 298 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,280 Him to fulfill that. He put us as material beings in 299 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,440 a material world and put His fingerprints everywhere and put 300 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,400 communion with Him everywhere. And once, once somebody says 301 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,680 that out loud and you start to look at Scripture that way, you 302 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,280 start to look at the world that way, all of a sudden you can't 303 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,640 Unsee it. Why is it that when Samson's 304 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,120 hair was cut, he lost his power? God, I mean, God didn't need to 305 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,160 do it that way. That's odd, but but he did. 306 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,280 There's a physical object that God has imbued with spiritual 307 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,880 properties. Why is it that there is a feast 308 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,240 of red and wine? At the centerpiece of the 309 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,920 traditional Christian worship service. 310 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,240 That's weird. Now, CS Lewis said that that 311 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,200 seems rather crude and unspiritual to us. 312 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,040 But Lewis said God doesn't see it that way. 313 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:51,480 God put us in this world where the physicality of who we have 314 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,680 made to be is actually, it's not something that you sort of 315 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,560 surrender to and say, I'm going to just go where my desires 316 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,000 lead. But even thinking about 317 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,680 cognitive science, the way our brains are made to work, we're 318 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,040 made to be attracted to things. And it's not just that following 319 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,520 our desires gets us to God, but God made us with those desires, 320 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,920 with things that draw us out of ourselves. 321 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,680 And that is supposed to be part of a journey toward him. 322 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,040 As Christians, we can't. We can't fix the world by saying 323 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,920 everybody blinders on, close your eyes, try not to look. 324 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,320 What we can say is there is a higher beauty still. 325 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,560 Go further up and further in it seems. 326 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,720 I. Think has been the perspective 327 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:48,520 of the ancient church, the church for 2000 years and in a 328 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:54,760 way the end some society and organizations like Kalos are 329 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:00,640 trying to reclaim that cosmological understanding that 330 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,320 as you've mentioned, Father Alexander Schmemann, you are 331 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,000 what you eat. And how he turns that phrase on 332 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:15,280 its head and says, yeah, the material world matters because 333 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:21,520 it was made by God and he is called it good and beautiful. 334 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,160 It's one. Of the things that fascinates me 335 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,560 too, Brian, what you? Say, is that this? 336 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,320 Pursuit of beauty is a form of satisfying our souls cravings 337 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,040 even now and higher beauty brings us not to replace an 338 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,360 understanding of God, but to augment and enrich. 339 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:43,200 And actually, it is a way of knowing God that as an former 340 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,200 evangelical, I'm I'm in still in, in Protestantism. 341 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,280 But what you characterize is the left brainedness, the 342 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,000 bibliocentricity to the exclusion of all other aspects 343 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,560 of living that are common in evangelical traditions. 344 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,080 I think that's one of the things that Callus hopes to encourage 345 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,440 our brothers and sisters, particularly in those traditions 346 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,720 that your body is, is a gift and it is part of God's expression 347 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,560 of who you are. And the weeds outside your house 348 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,280 are part of that expression. And the sunshine falling, and 349 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,080 the food and the and the joy. So how do you take that embodied 350 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,120 life? And and pursue fully God. 351 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:29,520 You cannot fully pursue God if you are not pursuing beauty. 352 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,920 And I think you've said that. Well, that's the good life. 353 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:38,560 Now shouldn't be surrendered and cut off in only a just simply a 354 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,160 biblioscentricity. That's a failure to live fully. 355 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,280 And I think you've said that, well, I think that's behind some 356 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,840 of what Anselm is doing. What we're trying to do is, is 357 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,480 invite the church, our brothers and sisters to more fully live. 358 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,040 Any anything you would add to that, I'm hearing you bring that 359 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,640 theme forward. Yeah. 360 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,120 Well, I mean, if you've ever been in, most of us at some 361 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,600 point in our lives have been in in one of those really beautiful 362 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,000 old churches, maybe in the US, maybe in Europe. 363 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,920 One thing I noticed in those buildings, when you walk in, 364 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,240 usually nobody has to tell you to whisper. 365 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,040 And I, I mean, I've been to churches in Europe where 366 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,400 everybody's in tourist mode outside, right? 367 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,240 They've all got their backpacks and their water bottles and 368 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,960 their cameras, and they're talking about where they're 369 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,280 going to go to lunch and they're. 370 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,120 Yeah. And, and, and then all of a 371 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:34,520 sudden they go in and their voices hush, not because they 372 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,800 saw a sign, but because the architecture told them that the 373 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,160 stones were crying out the glory of God. 374 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:47,440 I love that idea that that Christ said, if, if, if we don't 375 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,000 cry out his glory, the very stones will. 376 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,800 I think one of the coolest things in Christian history is 377 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,200 that we actually ran with that and said, we will make the 378 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,280 stones cry out. And the, there's, there's, so 379 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,760 there's sort of that high beauty that we used to put in our 380 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760 church buildings. And we have a lot of church 381 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,440 leaders now who have been just as desensitized to that high 382 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,760 beauty as everyone else. So as good as they may be at any 383 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:25,480 other aspect of, of pastoring, they don't boldly promote and 384 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,720 protect sacred spaces and art, ritual and tradition, authority 385 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,080 and reverence. These sorts of encounters with a 386 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,920 beauty is sort of the Niagara Falls type beauty, what I 387 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,040 remember called the sublime, this thing that is almost scary 388 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,560 how how far beyond you it is. The problem is if we've if you 389 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,520 don't have a church like that in your neighborhood and someone's 390 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,560 not inviting you into it, it's hard to have those encounters. 391 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,440 A lot of the time you go to the the Art Museum or something and 392 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,360 you encounter something like that out of context and you're 393 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:03,720 just not ready for it. So I think the one of the best 394 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,560 meeting places actually for most of us where we are, and this was 395 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,360 one of the meeting places for for me as well, is to take 396 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:18,040 something that we already value, but don't value enough and 397 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,680 elevate it. So we all value food. 398 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,480 We all like eating. We would rather be full than 399 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,320 hungry. And even if our, you know, our 400 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:35,400 tastes run more more McDonald's than fancy restaurants, we know 401 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,400 what it is to taste something good. 402 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,480 And one of the things that we have ended up focusing on a lot 403 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,120 in the Anselm society is these sorts of experiences with 404 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,880 beauty, not in that high architectural or sacred music 405 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,080 sort of realm, but in this really earthy, ordinary sort of 406 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,520 realm. Because if you take something as 407 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,080 simple as feasting, not just eating, but feasting, recovering 408 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,840 this theology of not only do I still love this material thing, 409 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,920 I love it more than you because I'm a Christian. 410 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,440 So we're going to take food and we're going to create the sense 411 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,840 of abundance eat. There's more than enough. 412 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,320 Somebody loved you enough to think of you before you got here 413 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,720 and prepare this table for you in the presence perhaps of your 414 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,080 enemies and. Put thought into what it. 415 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:37,880 Looks like and spend hours just enjoying it and talking 416 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,680 together. I had a German professor in 417 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,000 college who got a bunch of the freshmen together and just 418 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,360 because this was his thing put on a a full recreation of the 9 419 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:52,640 the last nine course meal served on the Titanic dish by dish. 420 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,400 We'd never tasted anything so fancy, right? 421 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,760 Even. Like even some of the dishes 422 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,200 were like, maybe this one wasn't quite my thing. 423 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,360 For someone to love us so much that they would put this spread 424 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,160 before us like that. All of a sudden, you. 425 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,880 Put someone in an environment like that, 2-3 hours in, 426 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,320 they're. Having conversations. 427 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,840 They never would have had. They are attuned in their with 428 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,280 their senses to things they've never noticed. 429 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800 They're tasting subtleties in the dish they maybe wouldn't 430 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,680 have tasted before. They're experiencing love 431 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,600 they've perhaps not experienced before. 432 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,800 And we've had people in these these feasting, conversational 433 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,120 kind of settings actually walk up to us and say, I think I just 434 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,760 got a taste of what heaven is like. 435 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,280 That's why. We are. 436 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,400 Here That's why we're on this planet to commune with God and 437 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,040 offer this communion to the world. 438 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,120 So the best place to me I know I've sort of gave me a really 439 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,240 long answer to a short question, but I think the one of the best 440 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,880 places that we can start to kind of wade into the challenge of 441 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:15,080 this disconnect between the material and the spiritual is to 442 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,960 find those really incarnation a really practical ways to bring 443 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,680 them together and offer them to people. 444 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,040 I just one note I want to. Make and Benjamin I'll turn it 445 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,720 to you as you talk about food it makes me think of the reality 446 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,320 that artists are a lot of the community that we're dealing 447 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,720 with would. Be well. 448 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,920 Served in in your model, to think of themselves like the 449 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,840 chef, as the servant of those who receive rather than the 450 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,360 hero. And I do think that for 451 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,000 Christians, servanthood is the defining moral mandate for what 452 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,600 it is to be in the Kingdom, and that the Christian artist is 453 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,120 like the chef, that these works that are produced high or low 454 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,440 are acts of love for others. I think you characterize that 455 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,240 really beautifully. Yeah, well. 456 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,520 That, I mean, it's not an accident that you picked up on 457 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,400 that. I'm the the so Christina, my 458 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,920 wife runs. She's the director of our Arts 459 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,320 Guild, which is a group of vocational artists. 460 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,080 That may not be their primary income, but they could. 461 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,920 You know, if you look at yourself in the mirror, I am a 462 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,520 writer. I look myself in the mirror, I 463 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,000 am a painter. I am pursuing excellence in that 464 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,880 craft. They are. 465 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,760 We've created this environment where they don't have to choose 466 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,680 between their artists friends and their Christian friends. 467 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,920 Frankly, if we did nothing else, that would often be the most 468 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,040 important thing they needed. But we're also trying to to then 469 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,560 give them things they they are getting in the larger culture 470 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,880 around them, more of this theological backdrop and and 471 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,360 whatnot. And one of the things that we 472 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,400 hit new members with quite early is, yeah, you have to get out of 473 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,240 this mentality that the the world around you has given you 474 00:30:53,240 --> 00:31:00,360 of the the artist as profit, the artist as higher than yeah, you 475 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,880 are not the hero. You are the servant. 476 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:08,680 And what if you had an ethos of creating as a gift of love, not 477 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600 for a hypothetical someday audience that gosh Gee, I sure 478 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,400 hope my book reaches. But adults and. 479 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,240 Children in your community, in your church, in your life. 480 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,280 What if that was why you created To love real people right in 481 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,800 front of you? And so often we see it changes 482 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,880 everything. We have a big. 483 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,440 Birthday celebration coming up here in just a couple of weeks 484 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,920 that wow. The Ansem Society is putting on 485 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,840 a long expected feast to celebrate Bilbo and Frodo's 486 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,640 birthday, It looks like. Brian, tell us a little bit 487 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,760 about this idea of feasting in your gathering. 488 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,960 A weekend of revelry and restoration. 489 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,760 Wow, that's that's exciting. Tell us a little bit about that. 490 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Yeah, well, we used to do a a weekend conference called 491 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,840 Imagination Redeemed and hopefully someday we can we can 492 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,680 do that again. But it is so expensive to do 493 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,800 these kinds of big conferences these days. 494 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,080 And honestly, we love the doing a lot of the show element to go 495 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,320 with the tell element because you know, a lot of people aren't 496 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,000 conference people. Even if you put on the best 497 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,280 conference in the world, but who's going to turn down a 498 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,480 feast? There's not that many people 499 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,480 that are going to turn down a Lord of the Rings themed 500 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,080 weekend. There's, there's a certain value 501 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,760 to just sort of laughing at yourself a little bit and going, 502 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,560 gosh, I love this story so much. You do too. 503 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,920 Let's give ourselves permission to enjoy it. 504 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,120 So what we've done is, is, yeah, we've crafted a a weekend that 505 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,400 it has September 19th and 20th of 2025 in the middle of we do 506 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,800 have a retreat portion and we've got some wonderful speakers that 507 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,200 are going to be dealing with different elements of feasting 508 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,560 as spiritual practice and as artistic practice. 509 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,760 So there's, there's that intellectual and spiritual feast 510 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,720 component kind of in the middle of it, but there's also 511 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,560 components of, of rest and, and, and communion. 512 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,880 You know, you can, we've got a pipe move group. 513 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,120 We're just going to, but a bunch of men are just going to go off 514 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,080 and smoke pipes and talk. They're hiking groups. 515 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,080 There are just sit down and don't bother me all afternoon 516 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,960 while I process everything that I just experienced at the 517 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,560 retreat. There were whole rooms devoted 518 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,440 to that. But yeah, it's bookended with 519 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,600 just enjoyment, rightly ordered enjoyment. 520 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,080 So we'll have a a Lord of the Rings game night mix of trivia 521 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,520 and just like Balder dash variants and poem recitations 522 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,120 and things like that. Make it good for both Tolkien 523 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,600 newbies and and and then the Uber fans that can answer the 524 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,400 really really hard trivia questions and they really need 525 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,760 to read. Up on Tom Bomba they'll so that 526 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,400 you know, you can weed out the just the movie guys, the movie 527 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,320 Lord of the rings. But if you are just the just the 528 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,800 movie guys, come on and we'll you know, you'll you'll hear 529 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,360 songs you recognize, but all up with what we call our pub 530 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,719 nights, which is literally just singing and storytelling and 531 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,639 distinct. Wow, that it sounds. 532 00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:31,480 So incredible. And then you turn around and 533 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:37,040 come to the Rocky Mountain Conference of Kalos and you're 534 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,880 going to be a feature presenter there. 535 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,840 We're so honored that you would come to our first Rocky Mountain 536 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,520 Conference. Tell us a little bit about what 537 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,560 you're going to be sharing there. 538 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,360 Brian, we can't wait to invite you and the Anselm Society to 539 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,440 this amazing conference that we're going to be having in Fort 540 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,840 Collins the next weekend, the weekend after Bilbo and Frodo's 541 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,720 birthday. We're going to have a really. 542 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,160 Good September. Yeah, yeah, it's. 543 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,640 Going to be incredible, right? Yeah. 544 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,040 So first of all, I'm just, I'm really excited to get to come 545 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,600 out with, come and hang out with you guys in Fort Collins because 546 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:16,280 there's we're, we're, we're so blessed by what we see going on 547 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,120 in, in Colorado Springs. But they're great. 548 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,440 There's great stuff going on in Fort Collins too. 549 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,160 It's so exciting that, that you're there, Gustav and some of 550 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,880 our other friends there. I'm so I'm just excited to come 551 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,880 and hang out and be a part of that there. 552 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,000 As far as my session, see, I mean, see if any of these lines, 553 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,960 if you've ever heard any of these lines before, oh, beauty, 554 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,280 whatever it is what you mean that you mean when you say that. 555 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,760 Oh, that's not for me. Like I'm not an artist, I'm not 556 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,480 qualified. I don't have the time. 557 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:57,040 That's my wife's thing. I'm just an engineer like. 558 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,760 All of us on some. Level know that that beauty 559 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,400 thing, somebody ought to do something about that, making it 560 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,800 and enjoying it. But we tell ourselves a lot of 561 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,640 stories to convince ourselves it's not us. 562 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,240 And I think. That's exactly how the enemy 563 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,760 wants it. But I mean, we were just talking 564 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,240 about Lord of the Rings. What if, as Gandalf said, it is 565 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,600 the deeds of ordinary people that keep the darkness at Bay? 566 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,000 What if there's a way for ordinary people through ordinary 567 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,320 things to participate in the life of Christ in the building 568 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,680 of his church? So what I want to do in my 569 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,360 session is take that theological vision that is the really the 570 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,280 centerpiece of of the whole weekend. 571 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,520 And there are smarter and wiser and more educated people than me 572 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,560 that are laying the groundwork with keynotes going into to the 573 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,160 breakouts that include mine. So that's awesome for me. 574 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,760 I don't have to do that heavy lifting. 575 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,240 I want to take that theological vision and bring it to the 576 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:59,400 dinner table, the workplace, the backyard, the small group. 577 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,800 I want people in my session to leave feeling like we've opened 578 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,840 a door to further up and further in. 579 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,800 Not in the realm of the thing those fancy people do, but in 580 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,240 the realm of my cubicle tomorrow, my home schooling 581 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,720 tomorrow, my laundry tomorrow. Oh, that's exciting. 582 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:25,240 And we're so looking forward to this conference and to have you 583 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,080 there and to just dive into these themes that you've laid 584 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,920 out so beautifully just in this conversation here on the 585 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,040 podcast. Gustav, you got anything more 586 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,440 for for Brian before we head out to our day? 587 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,240 No. I'm just. 588 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,000 Really thrilled Brian, you're going to be sharing those 589 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,120 thoughts and and I want to encourage you want if. 590 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,480 You hear this before? Our conference. 591 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,280 You really won't want to miss Brian. 592 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,640 You've heard a bit of his. Intellect and his. 593 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,960 Passion and his faith here. And I very much look forward to 594 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,640 hearing from you at length. Brian or at least greater length 595 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,360 and and want to thank you so much for being a part of our 596 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,720 conference and being such a supporter too as a sister 597 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:15,280 organization with and so I'm feeling that sense of journeying 598 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,480 together on this mission that's bigger than either of us and and 599 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,640 I'm grateful for that so I look. Forward very much to having. 600 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,680 You with us? It's going to be. 601 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,160 Great. And honestly, it's our our. 602 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,600 We, I mean we support. Each other because it's the 603 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,160 larger mission and because thank God we don't have to do 604 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,160 everything we can we can specialize a little bit we can 605 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,880 focus on the yeah that the things that we're best at or the 606 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,040 people that are right in front of us, which is the way that we 607 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,720 are are made to work and and if I were to sort of piggyback on 608 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:53,600 what you just said to to leave a sort of a parting gift to the 609 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,480 listeners that. If you're sitting there 610 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,120 listening. And thinking, I wish you know, I 611 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,280 wish I had this where I am. You can. 612 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,160 Start where we started. Which is plan to flag? 613 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,960 Put a flyer up at your church and say I love such and such. 614 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,600 Anyone who wants to come and talk about such and such over 615 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,720 dinner, sign up. I can pretty much. 616 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:24,040 Guarantee you will be surprised at just how much you 2 I 617 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:24,960 thought. I was the only one. 618 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,760 Comes up. So, Ryan, thank. 619 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,280 You thank you for joining us on Beauty Through Faith. 620 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,760 It's been an honor and we will have you on again very soon. 621 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,840 Maybe we can debrief on the conference. 622 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:40,000 I want to hear about the revelry and restoration that's happening 623 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,640 and at your gathering as well. So we're we're going to have you 624 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,040 back to to fill us in on those details. 625 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,960 I know our listeners are going to want to hear that too. 626 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,680 So thanks so much. Yeah, my pleasure.