1 00:00:15,540 --> 00:00:17,260 Let's flip the script a little bit. 2 00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:20,860 I want listeners to hear a bit more about your guys work. 3 00:00:20,860 --> 00:00:22,180 You've been very kind and generous. 4 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:25,280 And. Letting me talk about ours down 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,400 in in Colorado Springs, but tell me more about how the two of you 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,400 started collaborating on these kinds of projects and how that 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,960 gave birth to to your own work in Callous Arts. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,560 Well, Benjamin Harding and I have been friends for quite a 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,920 while now, about 20 years, 20 plus years. 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,160 And we're both musicians and intersected in New England where 11 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:49,840 we were both studying. And over the years as we've 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,920 engaged the world of the arts, particularly classical music and 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,000 and the musical arts, we detected some common patterns 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,840 and we've been collaborating Benjamin Plates and recorded 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,319 some of my works. He's a brilliant pianist and an 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,240 extremely talented soul and did me the honor of recording some 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,560 of my music. He performed in some concerts. 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,120 Well, as we got to COVID and the lockdowns occurred, both of us 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,360 had more opportunity to introspect. 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:19,960 And I don't think that's unique to us. 21 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,520 And Benjamin had started a mastermind group, essentially 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,760 convening friends and people who was in the affinity to navigate 23 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,080 that journey. But also take a checkpoint on 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,760 what is the nature of art making in art and what is the nature of 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,240 our own calling as believers. And Benjamin, I'll let you pick 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,880 it up. I think from the mastermind 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,960 willing seeded something for what we're doing now. 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,480 We were asking very practical questions, what it means to be 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,040 an artist in this world. And we were collecting basically 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,240 people together who from a variety of backgrounds, film 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:05,440 composers, technologists, etcetera, but all Christian men 32 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,960 that wanted to further the arts. And so Gustav and I came out of 33 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,840 that conversation, that mastermind that gathered over 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,800 COVID for a number of months, if not a year. 35 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,360 We we decided to create an organization that would be the 36 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,440 voice of the church in the arts. And so to create new works of 37 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,880 art that would represent the Lord and his church in the 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:35,000 future, be missionaries to the future for our grandkids, for 39 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 our great grandkids. We wanted to take that mantle up 40 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,320 and reclaim beauty, but also create beauty that would outlast 41 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,920 us. Oh, that's beautiful. 42 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,480 It's it's so funny. Like we, I think a lot of the 43 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,400 temptation with the the art world is to sort of pursue 44 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,080 immortality the same way that the ancient pagans did. 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,600 The sense of I want to, I want to do something that will allows 46 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,400 outlast me, But there's just that sense of I hope I can be so 47 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,680 great that I'll still be read in a couple generations. 48 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,320 That the Christian version of that, though, is different 49 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,440 because there's this sense of on the one hand, you don't have or 50 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,120 you shouldn't have this idea that, well, it's it's for Jesus 51 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,720 and it's the thought that counts it the motivation that counts. 52 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,040 It doesn't have to be very good. Well, no, ineffective for Jesus 53 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,960 is still ineffective. But, but when you're offering 54 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,280 when? You have that sense of I'm I'm 55 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,160 pursuing excellence. You're you're. 56 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,080 Participating in the work of Christ and that's inherently 57 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,960 intergenerational. One of the things I've seen on 58 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,000 on on my end is I just I want to see more people who are creating 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 art is in dialogue with the great tradition. 60 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,080 It's in dialogue with the past that's informed by past and 61 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,200 therefore has more of that long term orientation toward the 62 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,520 future. Tell me a little bit about the 63 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,480 how of that. Yeah, I'll, I'll start. 64 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,760 And Benjamin, you can weigh in. But to echo the point, when we 65 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,960 want to be the the voice of the church through the arts and, and 66 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,120 as you described it, that tradition is an embodied 67 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,519 testimony of what the life of faith is. 68 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:24,000 From those times. We cleave to JRR Tolkien, we 69 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,280 cleave to Dante, we cleave to these writers who are just as 70 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:31,520 material of flesh and blood and just as challenged to live day 71 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,640 by day as we are, and no different. 72 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,880 They're not different in nature. And what they left to us are 73 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,840 part of that treasury of high beauty and sometimes lower 74 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:48,000 beauty, but beauty itself. And it is also an expression of 75 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,680 what it means to follow Christ in their time. 76 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,040 And if we fail as the church because we cannot value the 77 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,800 pursuit of art, because we either distrust it or or don't 78 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,040 value it, because we think material things don't matter. 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400 And, and Brian, you've shared some wonderful thoughts to that 80 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,840 end. We're effectively silent when we 81 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:12,600 should speak because no generation of the church is 82 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,720 absolved of its responsibility to speak the truths of the 83 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,400 gospel. And that's the literal gospel as 84 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,840 handed down. But it is the manifestation of 85 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:22,600 the gospel when life's transformed. 86 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,560 And how do you share what it means to live on a practical 87 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,040 level, on a real human, the heart level? 88 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,920 It's through artworks, so artists in dialogue and inspired 89 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,640 by that tradition of our faith speaking in our time, as we've 90 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:45,120 said it is. I deeply believe we have no idea 91 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,920 what will survive us from our time. 92 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,360 So chasing the brass ring of fame or celebrity or My name 93 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,240 will be immortal. What you see written on the 94 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,120 ancient Persian kings and all of it. 95 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,400 This is a known human trait. That's not really the point. 96 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,320 The point is to have left a testimony of time because only 97 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,320 those alive now can leave the testimony of our time. 98 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,280 That's we're the only ones who can do it. 99 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,800 And to neglect that, the metal picture I have, it's like a 100 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,760 river where suddenly there's this giant void that floats down 101 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,520 the river and it's just empty, a natural empty because we 102 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,480 couldn't or were afraid to speak. 103 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,800 So the church should be creating out of what does it mean to be 104 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,360 in communion with Christ And not every moment is transcended 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,160 glory on the mountain. Some of it's very mundane, the 106 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,760 beauty of an apple in a bowl. Is a still. 107 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,840 Life, these things. Yeah, there's lots of paintings 108 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,200 of apples. Why do we need another? 109 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,840 It's because it's not a painting of an apple. 110 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,600 It's a conversation with the soul, with the embodied reality 111 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,080 of our moment. And if we don't speak, there is 112 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,840 no greatness to sift and discover for those who follow. 113 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:58,440 So when Benjamin says we view our nurturing of the artistic 114 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,480 voice of the church, it's a form of missionary work to our great 115 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,720 grandchildren because we won't speak the gospel truth to them 116 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,320 directly. But from our time, if we have 117 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,240 embodied faithfulness in Christ through these works, that is the 118 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,680 culture that will shape their thinking every bit as much as 119 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,200 any theologian, far more than any politician or talking head 120 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,680 on ATV screen. Those things that hit the heart 121 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,000 will endure generations. So we do believe that the work 122 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,400 of artists is missionary work to the future. 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,800 What do you see as the role of callous and pushing toward that 124 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,480 and any clipping people toward that? 125 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,360 Indeed, we are building community right now. 126 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,960 We've been in existence for a number of years, laying the 127 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,880 groundwork to be really, in effect, a production company to 128 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:53,680 bring works of art to fruition, whether there be musical art, 129 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:59,680 written art, fine art. We want to bring this work, this 130 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:05,840 new body of work, to the world and we want to enable the church 131 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,680 to speak. So we're basically a production 132 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,000 company. Christian artists, whether 133 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,520 they're fine artists or written word artists or musicians, we're 134 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,920 a production company. We want to bring them to 135 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,560 fruition in the fullest way so that audiences can actually 136 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,800 encounter the music. We think that the fullest 137 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,400 expression of a piece of music, let's say, is through encounter. 138 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,280 And so we have a conference coming up here at the end of 139 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,080 September where we're bringing together yourself, Brian and 140 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,720 other intellectual thinkers and artists to present. 141 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,400 We have some choral music that's going to be presented. 142 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,160 Good stuff. Can you talk to us about the, 143 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,200 the, the conference that's coming up? 144 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,440 So exciting because this embodies what I want to say is 145 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,840 that this embodies what we're all about. 146 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,960 And if you want to get to know us, you need to come to our 147 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,520 events because that's where you encounter. 148 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,480 Yeah, I would add, Brian, what inspires me about Anselm and the 149 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,680 work you do is you really emphasize the embodied nature of 150 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:14,920 feasts. And, and we want to do the same. 151 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,960 But instead of a conference where it's speakers simply 152 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,280 talking about beauty, for us the conference is a chance for 153 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,600 people to come and seek to encounter it through these 154 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,600 artworks. So we have poetry, we have 155 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,040 musical work, we have visual artwork and the invitation is 156 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,200 for people. Even if it's foreign, it's 157 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,840 alien. Because the high arts, for lack 158 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,640 of a better term, can be a little bit off putting, seem a 159 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,000 little foreign and alien and and art desires. 160 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,880 No, this is all in service to you. 161 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,400 Please come and we'll help you seek beauty through these. 162 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,480 And it doesn't mean that every person will love every artwork. 163 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,240 We're we're not scoring the outcome, whether it's great, 164 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,080 good, liked, disliked, we are presenting and really it is our 165 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:06,440 hope that non artists, but those who want and understand that 166 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,840 beauty matters will come and basically be discipled in how do 167 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,520 you take ownership of these opportunities to find beauty? 168 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,040 Here's how to listen for music in a way maybe you weren't 169 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,840 taught because you didn't have it in your school or you've 170 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,800 never understood visual art and its language and its vocabulary. 171 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,720 But if you knew just a little bit, it would open up vistas 172 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,160 where you now will appropriate those moments of beauty and make 173 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,040 them your own. That's it's not about the 174 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,720 artwork. The artwork is an invitation to 175 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,520 beauty. And how do we invite people? 176 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,560 We need to open the door and close the gap of understanding 177 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:47,080 so that we can make that possible. 178 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,760 So our mission, Benjamin said it beautifully. 179 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,240 It's best expressed when human beings are in the presence of 180 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,240 the physical artworks, whether it be music. 181 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,000 Whether it be? Spoken, recited poetry, whether 182 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,520 it be a canvas, not a screen, grab, not a Google Images 183 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,440 pixelated version. The actual thing. 184 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,240 And then be invited. How to discover the beauty of 185 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,720 that moment for their own soul. That's our hope. 186 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,800 Well said. Yeah. 187 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,520 And I want to just affirm for for the listeners what you just 188 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,720 said there about closing the gap because so often we can kind of 189 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,160 write ourselves off. Whether it's from. 190 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,680 Particular art form or something else. 191 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,640 And that's even the the work that you might find off putting 192 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,960 or or yeah, I don't I don't understand this. 193 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,080 Aren't these things that they're They're not. 194 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,000 Supposed to be beyond you. Forever. 195 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,840 It's OK if something appeal. If thing A appeals to you 196 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,080 initially more than thing B, that doesn't mean thing B is 197 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,640 always beyond your reach. I I there was a point in my 198 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,920 young adulthood where not not that young adulthood. 199 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:58,400 I mean, wasn't that long ago. I I'd never really liked cheese. 200 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,160 That was always like even even if I my mom handed me cheddar 201 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,000 cheese as a kid like I would, I would do everything possible to 202 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000 try to avoid eating it. It was just a point in my 203 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,000 adulthood where you know, you'll you'll laugh at me because this 204 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,200 is weird, but I was just like, this is objectively a good 205 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,720 thing. People with more developed 206 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,720 palates than mine all around the world love this. 207 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,920 I'm going to see if I can train my palate. 208 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:29,800 And so once a week I would go to the the local grocery store and 209 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,840 I got kind of excited after a while about saying I had a 210 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,280 cheese guy. There was this one guy there at 211 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,840 the store that, you know, he just do a lot about cheese. 212 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,040 And I already liked wine. So I would just go in and say, 213 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,200 hey, this week I'm drinking this California Cabernet. 214 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,040 What should I pair with it? And he would tell me about the 215 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,840 cheese and he'd tell me about where it came from and what to 216 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,520 look for flavor wise. And I'd go to the little bargain 217 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,000 bin where the little, the smaller things were cut off and 218 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,120 it'd be $5 instead of 13 or something. 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,640 And I'd go home and try it. And hey, I didn't like it a lot 220 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,120 of the time. But I did that for several 221 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,800 months, and at the end of several months I'd kind of gone 222 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,080 from liking no cheese to liking probably 2/3 of of what was 223 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,440 there. That's a thing that we can do. 224 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,360 And sometimes all you need is a sort of hero's journey language. 225 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,680 But sometimes all you need is a guide and that willingness to 226 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,000 step forward. That's certainly a part of our 227 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,520 mission is to guide people through the works of art. 228 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,120 And that's why we're excited to be in partnership with with the 229 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,800 Anselm Society because you guys do that so, so well. 230 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,120 And all that to say is that I know a friend who had a midlife 231 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,440 crisis and he expressed this midlife crisis in his love for 232 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,760 cheese. So you're, you know, this is, 233 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,960 this is, I mean, this is the second time that I've heard 234 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,240 somebody make an advance in their humanity through the love 235 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,080 of cheese. My next conquest was Scotch. 236 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,360 Wow. That was more expensive. 237 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:03,000 That'll be more midlife, that's more midlife, but but I've 238 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,200 experienced a lot of cheeses because of my friends midlife 239 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,120 crisis. I'm I'm very grateful. 240 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,400 Nice. And if hey, if you're the person 241 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960 who likes cheese, you can be that that friend. 242 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,760 We've got a friend that always dressed her to bring. 243 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,200 Really good. Cheese to a party. 244 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:19,720 And that's sound like the quest continues because. 245 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,720 Of her general. City yes, this just is just a 246 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,280 random thing that occurred to me and it's OK if it takes a minute 247 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:34,760 to think about the answer. Is there a work of pop art, like 248 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:40,120 a movie or something that has that's meant a lot to use it 249 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:45,080 that you kind of see as a window into that less accessible realm 250 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:50,160 of of high beauty? I can speak to that because my 251 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:57,960 first encounter with music on a emotional, visceral level was 252 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,880 Robin Hood with Errol Flynn. And I made all kinds of swords 253 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:10,440 and became Robin Hood and sang the tunes that were composed by 254 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,440 Korngold. Korngold was an incredible film 255 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,080 scorer, but of course, he wrote also gorgeous symphonic 256 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,920 literature, played well, played a violin concerto that I just 257 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,680 heard with my son down at the Philadelphia Orchestra, the 258 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,680 Korngold Violin Concerto. Stunning piece of music. 259 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:38,000 And so I, I love, I love watching movies, like really 260 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,280 good film that has excellent scoring in the background. 261 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:50,400 And, and for me, I was watching The Amazing Spider Man and. 262 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,840 And I was. Like wow, that piano part is 263 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,320 elegant. That piano part is absolutely 264 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,280 elegant. I get to the end of the movie 265 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,560 and I see that it's orchestrated by our friend Jack Redford and 266 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,280 I'm thinking, mom, goodness, Jack, this is fantastic how you 267 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,920 scored this to orchestrated this really. 268 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,120 And so that's what I would say is, is find, you know, John 269 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,680 Williams, of course, is probably the most famous composer of all 270 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,960 time because we know all of his themes and watching anything 271 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,360 that he has scored, whether it be 1010, I mean, the 1010 score, 272 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,640 Peter Jackson's version of Tintin, that score for John 273 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,760 Williams is so unique for me. But you know, of course, the 274 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,240 blockbuster ones, you know, Jurassic Park or Star Wars and 275 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,200 such, those are kind of entry drug so so to speak to 276 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,680 encountering music. Gustav, what do you think? 277 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,800 The the film scores are an obvious choice for a couple of 278 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,760 classic interest in classical music. 279 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,160 They're a gateway drug, as it were. 280 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,360 It is interesting. I think it was, I think it was 281 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,520 the New York Times, but he was recently interviewed John 282 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,120 Williams and basically said he never really liked film music 283 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,240 very much. It was just a gig. 284 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,640 And it's ironic that this paragon, he is the paragon of 285 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,000 film scoring and his own workmanlike view of it. 286 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,839 And having done some ancillary work in the film world there, 287 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,560 there is definitely a cultural high, low distinction between 288 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,119 the film score composer and then and the concert hall composer. 289 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,800 And really the intent of the music is different. 290 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,920 And so you asked the question, Brian, and I'm going through 291 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,040 mind. I think a film especially and 292 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,120 for some reason, I don't know this is this is unscientific and 293 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,680 you can discard it instantly. And because I'm likely wrong, 294 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,880 but it seems to me Eastern European cinematographers, 295 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,080 directors of photography in our modern films give us images that 296 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,320 are striking because they're classically informed. 297 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,440 And there's certain visual movie being yes, we think of it as a 298 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,240 play that comes to screen. But in our lifetimes, given the 299 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,960 rough ages, we are, I think particularly CGI. 300 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:08,360 But but even with the colorization of film, it's every 301 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,760 bit of photographer or visual art form as it is a narrative 302 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,800 form. Primacy of sight in the film is 303 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,960 interesting in the composition of a of a scene tells so much. 304 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,200 And it's, it's a, it's a lame answer, but I can then think of 305 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,640 great popular popcorn films and there are moments that there is 306 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,280 the composition of an image that Harkins to some classically 307 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,840 inspired thing. Oh, Rule of Threes is all over 308 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:36,800 the place. That's just. 309 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,800 Woven into the fabric of what it means to exist. 310 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,680 And so in popular art, I'm, I'm punting a little bit because I'm 311 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,320 not as much a popular art guy. I'm just going to confess. 312 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,640 And even I was, I was born an old man. 313 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,920 So I've really never been a popular art guy. 314 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:59,520 I'm this very fussy, unusual German dude, but I recognize the 315 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,280 narrative that truly excellent popular art. 316 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,800 Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's core at all. 317 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,880 And novels, I think of, say, the Harry Potter books, they're 318 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,080 delightful, delightfully engaging. 319 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,880 And they started as this is a kids book and they became a 320 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,560 cultural phenomenon because they're not. 321 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,880 They are. Sure, it's a kids story, but 322 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,920 it's not really a kids story. The Hobbit was a story told by 323 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,920 Tolkien, reportedly to just his children. 324 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:32,360 It's stratospherically rich universe that people just cleave 325 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:34,760 to now. But that was a popular book for 326 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,640 kids. There's there's this. 327 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,640 And I would say those are, I think I share those with a lot 328 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,560 of your listeners, a lot of just Joe Americans. 329 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,960 I have those same, same loves, Yeah. 330 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,360 Well, the, I mean, Madeline Lengle had that line about if 331 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,120 it's if it's not good enough for us, it's not good enough for our 332 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:56,120 children. That's that will often, not 333 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:59,800 always sometimes I slip, but they'll often guide, you know. 334 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:00,400 What? What? 335 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,440 Movies I let my kids watch. They're. 336 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Oh, that one, like it's there's nothing actively harmful in it, 337 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:12,440 I suppose, but it's it's it's it's talking down to you on a 338 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,960 profound level. Whereas you can just tell the 339 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,720 way they get excited by the ones that are that have been informed 340 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,200 by past. And yeah, you have, I mean, you 341 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,240 like Denis Ville Neuf, his films are so visual to the point where 342 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,080 he doesn't like even including dialogue if he can help it, if 343 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,520 he can, if he can tell something only visually, watch a couple of 344 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,080 his movies and then go to an art exam. 345 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,160 Duh. And similarly, Benjamin the like 346 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,320 John Williams, John Williams actively borrowed from Korngold. 347 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,600 So that's the beauty of if you can find a master of an art form 348 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,040 that you like. They're. 349 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,120 Always a window into the past, a window into the tradition that 350 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,160 produced them. Because then you can go and 351 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 look, listen to Korngold stuff, and you can find how I don't 352 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,360 know as much about his background, but you know, this 353 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,240 is how Beethoven informed him and how Bach informed Beethoven. 354 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,920 And now you're in. Now you're in. 355 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,600 Midstream, yes. Oh, it's so good. 356 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,600 Well, guys, I'll let you go. But first, for people who want 357 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,560 to connect with Callus, where can they find you? 358 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:27,160 Org It's real easy KALOS arts.org Learn more about our 359 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,840 mission. We're not only for artists, but 360 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,680 we we do nurture these encounters. 361 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,200 We have a conference coming up that will be eager to invite any 362 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,600 of your listeners who are inclined and those who know 363 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,520 Brian, you won't want to miss him speaking at our conference. 364 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,320 He's going to be sharing some really, really intriguing 365 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,440 thoughts with us. So you'll want to join us on 366 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,320 September 26th and 27th as well. And there's information on our 367 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:53,120 website. Awesome. 368 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,000 Thanks guys.