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In the green Colombian mountains
stands a magical place called 

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Casita. 
In this vibrant house lives the 

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extraordinary Madrigal family. 
Every child in the Madrigal 

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family receives a magical gift 
on their 5th birthday. 

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For one sister it was superhuman
strength, for another, the 

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ability to make flowers bloom 
with a touch. 

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Until one day on Mirabelle's 5th
birthday, when her ceremony 

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arrived, no magical door 
appeared and no gift was 

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bestowed. 
For years afterward, Mirabelle 

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watched her cousins and siblings
used their spectacular abilities

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to serve the community while she
remained ordinary. 

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She smiled and helped wherever 
she could, organizing family 

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functions, assisting her mother,
playing with the local children.

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But that question always 
lingered in her heart. 

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What is my gift? 
When do I enter the story? 

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Then one day, cracks began to 
appear in Casita's walls and the

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family's magic started to 
falter. 

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As disbelief gave way to panic, 
everyone scrambled to preserve 

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their powers. 
Mirabel, with no magic to lose, 

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was the only one who saw truly 
what was happening while the 

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others fought to maintain their 
special abilities, feeling 

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intensely the pressure of what 
was going on, she alone noticed 

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how her family was fracturing 
beneath the weight of the 

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expectations their gifts 
created. 

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Mirabelle was determined to save
the house, to save the family, 

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so she offered the only thing 
she had, her love. 

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She listened as her sister 
Louisa confessed how her 

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strength made her think she 
could never be weak. 

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She listened as Isabella 
confessed her flowery touch had 

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become hollow and fake to her, 
and Mirabel did what no one else

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was willing or able to do, offer
herself in all her flaws, not 

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merely her gifts, to save the 
family. 

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When the house finally crumbled 
completely, it was Mirabel who 

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pulled the family back together.
And as the grateful village 

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joined them in rebuilding their 
house, it was the family, not 

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just the house, that was 
rebuilt. 

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And when Mirabelle was handed 
the new dorno, the final piece 

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of the rebuilt casita, she saw 
in her reflection herself all of

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herself. 
Like Mirabelle's sisters, we 

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have a tendency to put all the 
pressure on ourselves. 

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Like Mirabelle, we tend to 
wonder how we could possibly 

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enter the great story. 
But the Christian vision of the 

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relationship between great and 
ordinary isn't what you'd think.

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And not only can we find the 
great story in the kitchen sink,

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it's the first place we have to 
learn to look. 

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Welcome to the Imagination 
Redeemed podcast where we follow

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the great stories further up and
further in In Pursuit of the 

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Life of Christ. 
Welcome everyone to the 

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Imagination Redeemed podcast. 
I'm Brian Brown joins today by 

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Sarah Howell, Matthew Clark and 
Jeremiah England. 

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And we are going to talk today 
about finding the great story in

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the kitchen sink. 
But before we do a little 

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housekeeping on June 4th, so 
that is days not weeks away, we 

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will be beginning our summer 
reading group. 

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We will be discussing the 
character of Tom Bombadil, that 

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great enigma from the Lord of 
the Rings books, and we will 

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also be talking about mastery, 
vocation, and calling. 

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We will be reading together the 
book In the House of Tom 

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Bombedell by CR Wiley, which is 
short, easy read, non 

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threatening, and was so good 
when I read it a few months ago 

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that I started storming around 
saying we had to do a reading 

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group because it was an 
introduction to so many concepts

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that are integral to a Christian
imagination, a full orb 

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Christianity, and so new to most
of us in the way that we have 

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been conditioned to live our 
lives. 

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So we're going to do 4 evenings 
for consecutive weeks. 

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The first one will be with the 
author, CR Wiley, and we're 

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going to do them live so you can
participate. 

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We're going to put the first 
episode on the podcast, but the 

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rest of it is all only if you 
sign up. 

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So head over to 
anselmsociety.org/bombadil, 

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pause the episode. 
Go do that right now because 

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space is limited if you can't 
join any given session live. 

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We have chat functions. 
We have the ability to watch the

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recording. 
Basically, we can keep the 

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conversation going the whole the
whole month long and beyond. 

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So well worth your time for the 
book alone, let alone the 

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conversation. 
All right, lady and gentlemen, 

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moving from our story, Disney's 
and Kanto, I should probably 

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mention before we jump in, we 
have typically on this show done

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little known stories and that's 
probably going to remain our MO 

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more more often than not. 
We want to introduce you, the 

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listeners gradually to more and 
more of the stories that have 

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come from the Christian 
imagination and have shaped the 

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Christian imagination. 
However, whatever my feelings 

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about the current state of the 
Walt Disney Corporation might 

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be, there are also great stories
that you can look for that may 

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or may not have come from a 
Christian place. 

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But all truth is God's truth, 
and we can see good and true and

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beautiful things and recognize 
them for what they are, where 

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they are. 
And In Kanto is. 

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I don't think it's just one of 
the best movies that Disney has 

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ever made. 
I think it's one of the best 

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movies of the last 10 years and 
it's a good kick off for a 

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discussion of really how much we
have been conditioned by 

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stories, among other things, to 
have actually an outlook on life

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that doesn't match the Christian
one. 

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But before we get into any of 
that, let's just start guys with

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the obvious. 
We, I, I would be shocked if we 

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had a listener who was older 
than about 9 who didn't feel 

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inadequate and pressured a lot 
of the time. 

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That seems to be the human 
condition on some level. 

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And it's certainly the modern 
condition. 

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But we all want our lives to 
mean something. 

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We all want that, that quest for
meaning. 

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It might be, it might be sort of
greatness in some sense, but 

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it's certainly meaning in some 
sense. 

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We want to matter. 
So let me just start with that 

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tension point between greatness 
and and the ordinary, and 

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especially the ordinary us. 
I think that Encanto is kind of 

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an interesting movie, especially
to come out right now because I 

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think more than ever in American
culture, having some kind of a 

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superpower or super gift or 
magical gift is pretty dominant 

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in all of their main stories. 
Like if you look at the highest 

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grossing movies in the last 30 
years, I bet 70% of them are 

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about some kind of a person with
superpowers, whether it's, you 

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know, Marvel, obviously, Harry 
Potter or Frozen or anything 

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else like that. 
I mean, it's really just seems 

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like something that in our 
specific kind of culture today 

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is something everyone's 
desperately looking for. 

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And why that is whether it's 
kind of like you were saying, 

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Brian, a feeling of inadequacy. 
If I could only have my 

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superpower, if I could only get 
my letter from Hogwarts and be 

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able to do magic or, you know, 
inherit my superpower, you know,

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then I could have meaning in my 
life or I could then be, you 

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know, a recognized person. 
Why do you guys think that the 

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superhero in one way or another 
form is the dominant stories, 

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the dominant story of the last 
30 years? 

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I really like that question, 
Jeremiah. 

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I had not thought about it that 
way before. 

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I think something that you might
be tapping into with your 

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question is the fact that we all
desire to be who we feel like we

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were made to be. 
And ultimately we as Christians 

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believe that that is in union 
with God. 

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Athanasius, a great church 
father, says that God became man

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so that man could become God. 
Not for us to be equal with God,

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but that through the indwelling 
of the Holy Spirit, we could be 

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his Co laborers participating in
the vision and the the purpose 

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for his creation the way that we
were supposed to be. 

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And I think superheroes are the 
maybe potentially A secular way 

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at trying to grasp at what it 
would mean to not have the 

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inadequacies, not have the 
failures, not have the finitude 

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of humanity, but instead step 
into the greatness that we we 

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feel exists in our future as the
way God has intended it with our

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union with him. 
So maybe that's hyper 

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spiritualizing it a little bit 
too much. 

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But I wonder if all that to say 
is that the inadequacy is real 

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because we are inadequate and 
we're seeking a way to alleviate

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that inadequacy. 
And I think we often look in the

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wrong places. 
It's such an interesting thing 

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because most of the stories are 
about, you know, Luke Skywalker 

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is just this poor farm boy. 
And then, aha, no, you have 

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special amazing connection to 
the Force that nobody else has, 

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you know, and on and on. 
But with, with Mirabelle, it 

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was, oh, yeah, everybody else 
has a really cool magical gift 

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except for you. 
And she's like, no, no, it's 

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totally fine. 
I'm special the way I am. 

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And one of the kids is like, is 
your superpower just denial? 

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You know, like being in denial 
is your magical gift. 

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I think that's the the normal 
cop out is that, yeah, you don't

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have superpowers, but you are 
special just the way you are. 

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And I think maybe the deeper 
meaning of Encanto is actually 

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the thing that you have that 
might seem ordinary to everybody

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else is actually a more powerful
magical gift than anybody else. 

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Like the ability to love someone
else and to listen to them and 

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to be humble. 
These are forces in the universe

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that are much stronger. 
It's the deep magic, like Aslan 

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said, that the people with the 
swords and sorcery could never 

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really understand it's true 
power. 

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I thought of a movie called 
Perfect Days. 

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I don't know if you've seen this
movie. 

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It's it's kind of an indie film.
And this, the story is about 

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this guy who is a toilet cleaner
in Japan. 

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And you just follow him through 
his really kind of boring, 

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ordinary routines. 
Day after day after day. 

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He gets up and he does the same 
thing every day. 

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And he waters his little plants 
and he puts on his uniform and 

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he trims his mustache. 
And he gets the same coffee out 

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of the vending machine every 
day. 

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And he goes and he cleans the 
toilets and he eats his little 

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sandwich in the park. 
And he takes a picture of a tree

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every day that with the sun 
coming through it. 

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But it is such a captivating and
beautiful movie. 

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But what you see is his 
superpower is to is willing to 

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be a nobody. 
And that's, that opens up this 

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possibility for him to he can 
afford to pay a certain kind of 

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attention and and be present in 
a way in the world that ends up 

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kind of spilling over to people 
around him. 

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Why is that so difficult for us?
Why do we bring back so much of 

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our perspective on life, though,
back to I'm I'm not enough and 

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the things that I am doing on a 
daily basis are not enough. 

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And particularly they might be 
the category issue, right? 

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It's not just that I'm not a 
good enough parent. 

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It's that I'm spending all this 
time on parenting when I should 

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be saving the world, or I'm 
spending this time on the dishes

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in the kitchen sink when I ought
to be writing that Symphony. 

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So it can, it can be a how we 
spend our time thing. 

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It can be how we see ourselves 
thing. 

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It can also just be a type of 
thing I'm spending so much time 

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doing issue. 
Why do we do that to ourselves? 

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Where does that come from? 
In in Kanto, right, where 

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Maribel really wanted to be able
to help and do all the great 

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things that she saw around her. 
So when I was younger growing 

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up, I was like a Baptist 
Christian School. 

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And they were kind of like, 
you've got a lot of things that 

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you need to do to be a 
successful Christian. 

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00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,400
You got to go to Sunday morning 
service, Sunday evening service 

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and Wednesday night service. 
Anything less is not OK. 

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And you need to be preparing for
mission work and all these great

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things. 
And I was captivated by that. 

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00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,800
I was like, yeah, I really want 
to do this type of thing. 

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00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,240
It's funny when it the actual 
moment that I kind of learned 

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00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,080
something was we were going over
in the book of Revelations where

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there's talks about the throne 
of God and what's happening, 

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00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,920
right? 
And then there's basically these

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angels that are just 24/7 night 
and day. 

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00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,360
They're just holy, holy, holy. 
That's all they're doing type of

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thing. 
And you know, there's like this 

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00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,440
chorus that is doing nothing but
praise God. 

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And I had kind of this moment 
because my classmates were like,

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00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,280
Oh yeah, it would be so great to
just, you know, do nothing but 

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00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,240
praise God. 
And I was kind of like, oh man, 

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I don't want to do that. 
That sounds awful having to do 

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00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,800
that over and over and over 
again all day today and tomorrow

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and for a year and for 20 years 
and 1000 years. 

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Remember I talked to my dad 
about it and he was like, well, 

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it makes sense for the angels to
do that because and those 

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particular angels to do it 
because that's what they were 

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created for. 
That was their purpose. 

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But that's not your purpose. 
That's not what God created you 

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to do. 
And he brought up to me, you 

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know, being one of my favorite 
verses. 

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It's in Micah 6 and the the 
question is, you know, kind of 

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what are you supposed to be 
doing with your life and says 

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with what should I come before 
the Lord and bow down before God

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on high? 
Shall I come before him with 

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burnt offerings, with calves a 
year old? 

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Will the Lord be pleased with a 
thousands of Rams 10,000 rivers 

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of oil, which is a lot of oil 
and these are the the great 

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sacrifices in the great, you 
know outward amazing, you know 

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Christian things of the Old 
Testament you can do he has told

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you, oh man, what is good and 
what does the Lord require of 

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you but to do justice to love 
kindness and to walk humbly with

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your God like that's it. 
That's, that's what our purpose 

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is. 
And that's such a simple thing 

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and it has none of the kind of 
trappings and stuff. 

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And there is like a real amazing
power and obedience of doing 

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those three things. 
And that when you do those three

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things, it's like it can, it can
change the world, it can change 

250
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,200
the people around you, it can 
change you. 

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And that's kind of more of what 
God designed us to do is to live

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in the Garden of Eden, tend to 
his creation, and walk with God.

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And that's it. 
So interesting that that the 

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00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,120
mindset we're talking about 
struggling with is not some 

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brand new thing. 
Obviously the person writing 

256
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that felt that way too, like I 
should be doing all these 

257
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,400
impressive things, right? 
Right, yeah, and I should have 

258
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these great accomplishments. 
And another story I really love 

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is Chariots of Fire, which if 
you guys have seen it before, 

260
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the basic story is that there's 
a guy that kind of comes from a 

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00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,080
Christian home, Christian 
dynasty, almost right? 

262
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,720
And his parents are very much 
preaching him, pushing him to go

263
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,160
into ministry, be a missionary, 
but he wants to run. 

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00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,880
He's a sprinter and he ends up 
going to the Olympics. 

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00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,240
And one of the quotes in there 
that he says, this guy Eric, he 

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says that I know that God has 
like a purpose, like a 

267
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,760
spiritual, you know, purpose for
me. 

268
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But God also made me fast and I 
feel his pleasure when I run. 

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And Eric, if you read his book 
and kind of his biography, he 

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00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,000
does go on to be a missionary 
and, and, and do a lot of those 

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00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,600
things. 
But I think that he, he kind of 

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00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,880
understood that like a lot of 
what, you know, we are created 

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00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,920
for can be as simple as as 
running in that, that God 

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actually finds real pleasure in,
you know, kind of our our daily 

275
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activities that might not seem 
so spiritually on the surface. 

276
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,720
And, and I just think of my own 
life, you know what God made me,

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00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,600
you know, to do, you know, like 
he made me a good dad. 

278
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,040
And, you know, I can make my 
kids laugh. 

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00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,400
I can help my kids with their 
chemistry homework. 

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00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,000
And I do, I feel God's pleasure 
when I do those things. 

281
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,560
I feel it's pleasure when I'm 
cleaning the house and I'm just 

282
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,600
kind of spending time with him 
in the normal everyday things. 

283
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,680
I think there's a real power to 
that. 

284
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,640
It boils down to what does it 
mean to be human? 

285
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,560
In our modern day, I would maybe
argue that we have a poor 

286
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,040
understanding of what it means 
to exist versus what does it 

287
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,400
mean to do what to produce 
specifically. 

288
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,720
We often think about events or 
great actions, but we forget the

289
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,920
kind of person that has to come 
to those actions. 

290
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,400
I think we often forget that 
doing a courageous act doesn't 

291
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,280
make you courageous. 
You have to be the kind of 

292
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:30,680
person who is courageous so that
when you come to a a point of 

293
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,880
great struggle, you are the kind
of person who will make the 

294
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:41,000
choice to be courageous. 
And that doesn't happen within 

295
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,640
that one moment. 
Thomas Aquinas says that all 

296
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,600
great, great courageous acts 
come from something that you 

297
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,880
love, you're trying to protect 
or you care about something that

298
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,520
you love. 
So you sacrifice maybe your own 

299
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,240
safety for the safety or the 
protection of something that you

300
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,920
love. 
And so cultivating what it means

301
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:04,720
to love, I think ultimately 
takes presence first. 

302
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,840
And that's really what I would 
love to kind of dive into more 

303
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,480
with you guys is wondering what 
are the things that we do that 

304
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,160
steal our presents, steal our 
attentiveness to the present? 

305
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,720
Yeah, yeah. 
Let me put a little bit of 

306
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,520
historical frosting on that 
question because I think that's 

307
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,600
a perfect next place to go. 
Historical Frosting. 

308
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,120
Historical Frosting. 
Delicious. 

309
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,760
My favorite kind of birthday 
cake has historical frosting. 

310
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,120
What have we done? 
OK, I remember, oh, probably 20 

311
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,920
years ago, I read a a book by 
Hannah Arendt called Between 

312
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,760
past and Future and it was it's 
not a not a Christian author, 

313
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,480
but this is a woman who had 
escaped Nazi Germany, knew a lot

314
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,200
about totalitarianism is mostly 
is best known for a book that 

315
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,240
she wrote on totalitarianism. 
But this between past and future

316
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,480
book wrestles with the question 
of how we live in time. 

317
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,920
She recognized that humans have 
this instinct to pursue 

318
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,280
immortality. 
And the the bow that I might tie

319
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,560
on most of what we all said in 
the 1st 10 minutes of our 

320
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,560
conversation today is that we 
know that in our souls, we know 

321
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,000
that we know we were made for 
immortality. 

322
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,080
And so we have this instinct to 
to long for it at at the very 

323
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,600
least, if not strive for it. 
And Arendt pointed out that the 

324
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,200
ancient Greeks saw this striving
for immortality as this is 

325
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,680
something that you do because 
you won't last forever. 

326
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,280
Your objective is to do deeds 
that will last forever. 

327
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,480
You want to be remembered for 
what you did because you're just

328
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,280
this kind of passing shadow. 
That's what greatness is. 

329
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,560
It's doing something great 
enough so that your your memory 

330
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,960
or the memory of what you did 
goes into eternity, right. 

331
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,000
We like, we still read the 
funeral oration of Pericles and 

332
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,240
so on. 
That's actually influenced a lot

333
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,880
of contemporary Christian 
thinking on calling and purpose,

334
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,760
not because we all study the 
ancient Greeks or something, but

335
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,640
because we've absorbed a lot of 
ideas that filtered through 

336
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,360
history into the water that we 
swim in, culturally speaking. 

337
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,360
And Jeremiah brought up 
something from from his history 

338
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,040
that's kind of the other the 
Christian piece of this. 

339
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,280
And I think that if we combine 
the two, we get a pretty good 

340
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,320
idea of. 
The the circumstances we're 

341
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,640
wrestling with the secular side,
you have this this idea that 

342
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,720
you've got to do something great
and so many of our not just how 

343
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,680
we spend our time, but our 
vocational instincts are 

344
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,720
constantly having pressure put 
on them by other people, if not 

345
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,560
ourselves, right like, oh, why 
would you be fill in the blank 

346
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,440
to the young teenager. 
You need to be a doctor, right 

347
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,440
Like whatever it whatever it is,
do the great thing. 

348
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,040
Then on the Christian side, we 
have this legacy, if 

349
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:54,400
particularly in the United 
States from what's traditionally

350
00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,000
called the Second Great 
Awakening, where you have these 

351
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,800
these revival meetings. 
It was almost like Burning Man 

352
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,320
or something. 
But for preachers, like 

353
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,880
everybody just flocks to this 
field in the middle of nowhere. 

354
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,520
Sometimes there are 6 preachers 
going at once in different 

355
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:13,880
directions. 
You're just, you're there to 

356
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,760
hear the famous preacher and 
Charles Finney, who's at the 

357
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,680
center of it and influences a 
lot of the other preachers is, 

358
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,080
is pushing this idea of of 
basically, you know, hell, Hell 

359
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840
is scary. 
You got to check the box to go 

360
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,480
to heaven. 
You're a horrible Sinner. 

361
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,480
Puts a ton of pressure on the 
present, but fundamentally it 

362
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,160
it's a wrong headed 
understanding of the passage in 

363
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,560
Micah that you quoted Jeremiah 
that this idea that, you know, 

364
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,920
you just need to kind of pray 
the the sinner's prayer. 

365
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,000
You can't earn your way to God. 
You got to just do this. 

366
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,160
The problem is when you get a 
version of Christianity that has

367
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,520
no follow up. 
It has no, what have I gotten 

368
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,480
myself into? 
It's just pray the prayer and 

369
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,560
yeah, now I can go to heaven. 
That altar call sort of model of

370
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,240
gathering is it's baked into a 
lot of contemporary Christian 

371
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,080
worship. 
It's baked into a lot of the 

372
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,440
contemporary Christian 
mentality, but it's really, 

373
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,400
really light on the specifics. 
It's really, really light on how

374
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,360
shall I then live? 
Because we're so afraid of doing

375
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,360
this workspace thing. 
And what happens is we then 

376
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,120
instinctively fill in the works 
because we know there's got to 

377
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:30,320
be something. 
And so in the absence of rules 

378
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,360
and structures and something 
that makes sense of it all 

379
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,640
handed down from history, we 
make up new ones like, oh, you 

380
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,440
got to read your Bible often 
enough and you got to be the 

381
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,800
missionary to wherever and you 
got to have the dramatic 

382
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,640
testimony. 
And you have this constant 

383
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,040
anxiety that I haven't found the
one big thing. 

384
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,600
And what ends up happening by 
certainly the 80s is these two 

385
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,480
things, the secular kind of 
Greek thing and the second Great

386
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,600
Awakening thing. 
Get married and we we get this 

387
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,640
notion of calling that is the 
secular idea that's just been 

388
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,560
baptized. 
We need to find the one big 

389
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,080
thing and that's your calling. 
That's the thing that God has 

390
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,320
made you to do. 
That's why you're on the planet.

391
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,440
I talked to a lot of women who 
wrestle with this. 

392
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,880
Am I called to be a mother or am
I called to have a career? 

393
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,760
Because you can only pick one 
because you have to just throw 

394
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,200
your entire being into that 
thing. 

395
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,320
But now, long roundabout thing, 
I'm circling back to you, Sarah.

396
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,760
What we have done is we've made 
one crucial error in all of that

397
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,200
besides the little ones we might
have made. 

398
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,240
And that is that we've 
recognized. 

399
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Yeah, there's this hero's 
journey dynamic to life. 

400
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,000
We want to strive for 
immortality. 

401
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,320
The the, the Hogwarts letter and
everything. 

402
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,920
We feel like Luke Skywalker 
looking into the binary sunset. 

403
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,160
We feel like Ariel, longing for 
that other place. 

404
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,840
And the reason that the hero's 
journey is in the middle of 

405
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,120
everything is not because we're 
all made to be the hero. 

406
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,080
It's because it's the the meta 
narrative of everything. 

407
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,440
It is Christ's story. 
The hero's journey is the story 

408
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,560
of Christ. 
And we've accidentally, without 

409
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,840
even realizing it, put ourselves
in his shoes. 

410
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,560
And we're trying, we're trying 
to do that to ourselves. 

411
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,680
That pressure that we feel that 
manifests as a tiny bit of 

412
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:37,600
stress over a, a piece of 
homework or a job related thing 

413
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,960
or household chores or the 
diaper or the dishes. 

414
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,120
Is is actually us just making 
this little micro decision to 

415
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,880
try to make ourselves the hero 
of the story. 

416
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,040
We don't know we're doing it, 
but that's that's what we've 

417
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,080
done to ourselves. 
And at that point, no wonder we 

418
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,680
feel pressure. 
But yeah, the weird thing is 

419
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,880
that puts us in that awkward 
place where the here and the now

420
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,400
are the only place we've been 
given to live. 

421
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:22,320
And we have this urge to try to 
get out of it, to get to 

422
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,480
something else, to get to 
somewhere else. 

423
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,080
So what do we do? 
What's missing in all of that? 

424
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,560
Because you can't just you can't
just say, oh, the answer is 

425
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Jesus, Yeah, I have a nice life.
We can stop recording now. 

426
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,520
It's true, but it's not, it's 
not enough for us to actually 

427
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:46,600
walk away and do something with.
So if, as Athanasius frames it, 

428
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,880
Christ is the story of 
everything, and it's he that 

429
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,480
comes and slays the dragon and 
all of that, and the invitation 

430
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:02,240
is into his life and into his 
body, what does that mean for 

431
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,960
the kitchen sink? 
What do we do with it? 

432
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,520
I definitely agree with the idea
that, you know, Christ is the 

433
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:14,880
hero of the story, but I think 
there is kind of a natural pull 

434
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,800
for us to to be like Christ in 
that way. 

435
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,280
And maybe that's one of the 
reasons we're so attracted to 

436
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,800
kind of the magical gifts and 
superpower kind of concept. 

437
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,560
But even like, you know, when 
Peter saw Jesus walking on the 

438
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,160
water, he was like, let me go 
walk on the water too. 

439
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,880
I want to be like you in that 
respect. 

440
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,080
And Jesus said, come do it, walk
on the water, have the 

441
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,040
superpower type of a thing. 
Maybe there's a it's a balance. 

442
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,440
They're trying to figure out 
where it is humility and where 

443
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,040
it is that we want to also be 
like Christ and slay the dragon 

444
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,520
as well, because I think God 
does want us to slay Dragons 

445
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,040
and, and be the hero. 
But I mean, to kind of bring it 

446
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,960
back to Encanto, I think it's an
interesting question. 

447
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,640
Why was Mirabel the only new one
that was able to save her 

448
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,280
family? 
You know, the Super strength, 

449
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,560
the Super hearing, the Super 
healing talk with animals, all 

450
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,760
that stuff. 
It couldn't do it. 

451
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,080
None of that could save her 
family. 

452
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,640
Why was Mirabelle able to save 
the family when everybody else 

453
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,880
wasn't? 
How simple this potential answer

454
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,760
to your question is, Jeremiah. 
So I, I shy away from it even as

455
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,640
we talk about ordinary things. 
But she's the only one, as 

456
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,480
Brian, you alluded to in the 
opening story and how you framed

457
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,720
it is that she was the only one 
who could pay attention because 

458
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,560
she wasn't stuck inside of 
herself thinking about her 

459
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,920
gifts, her expectations for 
herself. 

460
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:37,920
And so the question is, if God 
is a triune God, fool of 

461
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,480
fellowship even within himself, 
that out pours into creating and

462
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,200
wanting to dwell with his 
people. 

463
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,920
That's the main thrust of the 
entire narrative of the Bible, 

464
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,560
Old and New Testament. 
If fellowship, union, knowing 

465
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:02,640
one another presence is the 
answer of why we are here, then 

466
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
maybe that's where we start. 
There was a couple of 

467
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,640
researchers. 
It was a husband and wife. 

468
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,240
These researchers had spent 40 
or 50 years researching what 

469
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,880
makes relationships work. 
And basically they came down to 

470
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,920
this point of saying most people
have the wrong idea of what 

471
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,120
actually makes a marriage, what 
makes a friendship work. 

472
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,920
Because we overshoot. 
We think it's all these big 

473
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,440
difficult things like you got to
have the amazing 10 day vacation

474
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,120
in the most beautiful spot and 
that's what's going to make your

475
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,240
your relationship really, really
work. 

476
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,280
Or you got to be really good 
looking and then shit, you know,

477
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,680
all these things. 
Talk worthy proposal scene. 

478
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And they said actually what the 

479
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:52,160
research that they had done 
shows over their research group 

480
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,400
was something huge, like 50 or 
60,000 people over 40 years. 

481
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,160
It's crazy. 
So a lot of lot of data. 

482
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,960
And they said the most important
things are the things that 

483
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,480
people underestimate, the things
that people tend to think, oh, 

484
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,720
that's too easy. 
That's not that big of a deal. 

485
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,320
One of the things was they 
called it bids for connection. 

486
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,080
So if somebody, you know, if 
your friend says, wow, look at 

487
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,840
that bird, that's a cool bird. 
Or do you hear that bird song? 

488
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,200
And you say you just put a 
little bit of a crack in the 

489
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,400
relationship. 
You just missed an opportunity 

490
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,240
to build connection and a tet to
be present. 

491
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:33,960
Sarah, what you're talking 
about. 

492
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,400
You just missed an opportunity 
to show up with that person and 

493
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,880
and build a little more, weave 
yourself into that person's life

494
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,040
a little bit more. 
But if you if they say, Hey, 

495
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,000
look at that bird and you say, 
what, where is it now? 

496
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,400
Can you point it out to me? 
It's right there on that on the 

497
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,360
bird feeder. 
Oh, wow, that is a pretty bird. 

498
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,720
I do like that sound. 
And they were saying it's those 

499
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,600
things. 
Or do you, do you kiss your 

500
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,400
spouse goodbye on the way out 
the door? 

501
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,760
Do you give him a hug? 
Do you smile at them? 

502
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,080
They're like, these are the 
things that people think. 

503
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,360
That's so that's too easy. 
But he said that's what 

504
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,360
relationships are actually made 
out of day in, day out, hour by 

505
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,120
hour. 
Just did you look at the bird 

506
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,920
that your that your friend 
thought was cool or did you 

507
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,480
ignore them or, you know, or 
what was the tone of your voice 

508
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,960
in the way that you responded? 
You know, did you respond 

509
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,800
dismissively or with interest or
did you actually care? 

510
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,920
Like that stuff really 
accumulates. 

511
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,040
And I think it's the same in our
relationship with God. 

512
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,160
And yeah. 
Matthew I think I have found in 

513
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,960
my life and it's I'm very 
ashamed and embarrassed to say 

514
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,240
it, but I think it's something 
that we probably all struggle 

515
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,280
with to some extent is the 
reason why I don't go for bids 

516
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,360
of connection while I'm even the
connection I have with the 

517
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,800
window next to my kitchen sink 
as I'm doing the dishes. 

518
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,640
Whatever the bit of connection 
is the the the beauty of God's 

519
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,360
creation and the fellowship. 
But with all creation is my 

520
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,480
desire to distract myself with 
being busy, whether that's being

521
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,720
busy with the constant noise of 
media and podcasts, or whether 

522
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,600
that is the busyness of thinking
about my future, planning my To 

523
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,360
Do List, feeling stressed about 
things that actually don't 

524
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,720
matter. 
Whatever the distraction is, 

525
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,480
it's a distraction, a a grasp, a
reach to be omnipresent and 

526
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,680
omniscient over my life. 
Because that feels much more 

527
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,960
like I'm in control, like I'm 
doing something important, when 

528
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:50,560
in reality I have to acknowledge
the pains that come with being 

529
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,080
present. 
And I think that's something I 

530
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,960
want to bring up with your bits 
of connection. 

531
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600
Because when I, so I have a 15 
month old. 

532
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,040
And so this whole entire 
conversation keeps going back 

533
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,360
for me to the concept of what do
I do when I change a diaper? 

534
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,160
I've changed, I think I've 
calculated like at least 3000 at

535
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,000
this point or something. 
And it's lonely, it's boring. 

536
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,680
It's, it's, I feel that 
inadequacy and emptiness that I 

537
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,760
have to confront in order to be 
present. 

538
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000
And so there's something inside 
of me that's blocking my 

539
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,360
connection and I'd rather not 
deal with it and I'd rather 

540
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,520
distract myself. 
So I think the pain of meeting 

541
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,680
yourself where you are and the 
enticement of distraction are 

542
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,120
two really important things to 
kind of consider and for us to 

543
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,800
kind of dive into as we think 
about what it means to accept 

544
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,360
these bits of connection. 
The framing that I have for that

545
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,920
same idea is Sarah will of us, 
because it's from Aquinas. 

546
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,720
It's it's turning toward so 
medieval, what 12th century, 

547
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,840
13th century Aquinas is, is 
writing about the virtues and 

548
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,080
he's writing about, yeah, sloth,
this tendency to kind of turn 

549
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,320
away from what's right in front 
of you, either because you don't

550
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,200
want to do the work, you're too 
lazy, or because, yeah, it's too

551
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,680
hard or you're too busy. 
You're not fully present. 

552
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,680
The antidote from a not from a 
moral standpoint, but from a 

553
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,560
just a, a habit standpoint is 
turning toward. 

554
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,320
And that's been helpful to me to
the the point where I literally 

555
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,240
have those two words on the home
screen of my phone because it's 

556
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:35,760
that constant 10/20/50 times a 
day reminder, turn toward the 

557
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,920
wife, the kids, the person I'm 
having a conversation with, 

558
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,760
whatever, whatever it is, you 
have an opportunity and then 

559
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,360
this second to make a decision 
to turn toward them and not turn

560
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,840
away from them. 
And a ton of the time that is a 

561
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,640
harder thing. 
It is. 

562
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,280
It's it's ask that follow up 
question about the thing you 

563
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,720
don't care about the bird or 
some some variation on on that. 

564
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,520
But it's it's choosing to it's, 
it's recognizing that the way I 

565
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,040
invest in this relationship or 
this task or this moment, 

566
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,240
whatever it is, and, and being 
fully human, being the image of 

567
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,199
God, whatever, whatever the meta
narrative is that I have at the 

568
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,880
back of my head, the way I 
invest in that is is actually 

569
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,159
being fully present in this 
moment right now. 

570
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:24,000
In Encanto, the storytellers 
plant the answer to the whole 

571
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,560
question. 
In the first song, you're 

572
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,520
introduced to Abuela, the 
grandmother, who is accidentally

573
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,520
putting tons of pressure on 
herself and everyone else. 

574
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,560
When she's introducing, hey, 
this is our role as the as the, 

575
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,800
the magical family. 
She uses the phrase we have to 

576
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,679
earn the miracle that somehow 
found us. 

577
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,840
She recognizes it was a miracle.
She recognizes it just somehow 

578
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,199
found them. 
It was a gift. 

579
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,920
But the response to that is that
she has to earn it now. 

580
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,000
It's very easy, I think, for us 
Christians to kind of go, oh, 

581
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,560
tut, tut, tut, you know, the 
gift of God is a free gift of 

582
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,560
love. 
But if we are absorbing some of 

583
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,280
these ideas from the world 
around us, if we don't actually 

584
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,520
have a healthy way to enter into
the miracle, to inhabit the 

585
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,400
miracle, to be fully present, 
that is what we will try to do. 

586
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,960
We will try to earn the miracle 
that somehow found us. 

587
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,960
This is the fallacy of the 
Second Great Awakening and tons 

588
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,280
of heresies and cults that came 
out of it, and it's the fallacy 

589
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,120
of busyness. 
It's the fallacy of inadequacy. 

590
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,280
We have to earn the miracle that
somehow found us, even when we 

591
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,680
recognize it as a miracle. 
Yeah. 

592
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,080
And I think within Kanto, the 
like you were saying, the 

593
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,680
importance of turning towards 
and listening and and being 

594
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,120
present that the gifts, the 
magical, fantastical kind of 

595
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,600
superpower gifts are often what 
kept them from being able to 

596
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,280
listen and to see if you're 
super strength. 

597
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,560
And all you're thinking about 
is, oh, I got to build these 

598
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,160
houses and do all of these 
things or with the blooming 

599
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,120
flowers and all the other 
things. 

600
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,720
I mean, basically that's what 
kept all the other characters 

601
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:08,160
from seeing Bruno was an outcast
and all the other problems and 

602
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,400
hurts that everyone else has 
had. 

603
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,160
And I think that's, I mean, 
that's the thing about kind of 

604
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,760
the fantastical powers is they 
almost do make you blind to 

605
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,840
things. 
I mean, there's so many examples

606
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,520
of the very famous and what we 
would say, quote UN quote, great

607
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,280
Christian leaders. 
And then you find out that 

608
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,520
marriages are, you know, 
completely right, because I mean

609
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,600
that they're focused on this big
outward great thing rather than 

610
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,720
the, you know, kind of live 
justly, love mercy and walk 

611
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,720
humbly with God. 
And like, even like, if you look

612
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,800
in the Bible where I was 
thinking about this, right, like

613
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,760
who are the characters in the 
Bible that got the most like 

614
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,800
kind of super powers? 
You look at like Samson, who 

615
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,280
literally got the Super 
strength. 

616
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,200
His life ended in tragedy. 
He wasn't, you know, able to, 

617
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,440
you know, fulfill his purpose as
a judge and Solomon, it was 

618
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,600
granted with superhuman 
intelligence and wisdom and 

619
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,560
then, you know, basically died 
horribly depressed and unable 

620
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,000
to, you know, be the king that 
he needed to be. 

621
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,600
Corinthians 13, right? 
What does it say this, you know,

622
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,880
basically, if you have these 
great things, if I can speak 

623
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,120
with tongues and have the gifts 
of prophecy, the superpowers. 

624
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,960
But I have love don't have love.
I have nothing, right? 

625
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,880
If I can use do all these great,
you know, amazing things, but 

626
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,200
don't have love, I have nothing.
That's the whole story of 

627
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,040
Venkanto, right? 
Is that these people with their 

628
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,560
amazing great gifts, they didn't
have the love and Mirabelle did 

629
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,440
and that's why she was able to 
save her family and no one else.

630
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,800
Good. 
And she made some turning toward

631
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,360
decisions that were pretty hard.
I mean the the look of revulsion

632
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,840
on her face when she's when she 
realizes she has to go make up 

633
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,040
with with Isabelle, who is 
always. 

634
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,720
Talking down to her like, yeah, 
I mean, I guess we have to 

635
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,840
mention Tolkien by obligation, 
right, since it's an handsome 

636
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,040
thing, but. 
And Lord of the Rings, right, 

637
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,520
it's the hobbits are the only 
ones that can carry the ring to 

638
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
to Mordor, right. 
Because, you know, the great 

639
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,000
soldiers can't do it. 
The powerful Wizards can't do 

640
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,960
it. 
The mythical elves can't do it. 

641
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,120
It takes someone whose main goal
in life is to have tea with a 

642
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,960
friend and make maps and. 
You know. 

643
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,520
Garden and things like that. 
You know, Sam Wise is 11 the 

644
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,200
movie, you know, where they're 
like, you know, what are you, 

645
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,880
his bodyguards? 
No, I'm his gardener. 

646
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,920
But in Lord of the Rings, 
there's like almost like a 

647
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,040
magical strength to being a 
gardener that will be able to 

648
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,960
defeat, you know, the great 
spider monster where maybe the 

649
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,640
more flashy people couldn't. 
I don't know. 

650
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,120
Well, there's nowhere to grip. 
It's kind of like John the 

651
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,440
Baptist. 
Like, how do you threaten this 

652
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,720
guy? 
He's already given up 

653
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,360
everything, so you can't like 
get a grip on him. 

654
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,440
You can't really threaten them. 
And like the hobbits, that's 

655
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,520
that's why that the power just 
doesn't have any appeal because 

656
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,560
they're they're already happy 
where they are and they're glad 

657
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,600
to be doing what they're doing. 
I was thinking, Sarah, about the

658
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,560
distraction thing and you 
mentioned control. 

659
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,280
I think that's really 
interesting to connect the 

660
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,320
desire for distraction with a 
sense of control and then to 

661
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680
say, well, what is the fear that
drives the desire for control? 

662
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,400
It almost feels like if I stop 
long enough, I'll be exposed in 

663
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,440
some way. 
I'll be exposed as a fraud. 

664
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,560
And I think that ultimately goes
back to the original mistrust in

665
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,360
the garden. 
You know, God doesn't actually 

666
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,080
love you that much. 
And if you, if you sit here and 

667
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,240
wait to find out what things are
really like, what's going to 

668
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:31,040
happen is you're going to find 
out that you're, he doesn't 

669
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,040
really love you. 
And so I think we're always 

670
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,760
trying to cover for that and, 
and not leave ourselves room to,

671
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,000
to be disappointed to, to find 
out that we're not OK, that 

672
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,600
we're not loved. 
And I was just the other day, I 

673
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,840
was camping in Alabama and it 
was raining like crazy. 

674
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,320
So I kept getting caught in the 
rain, But I would make it to 1 

675
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,200
little like shelter with a roof 
and and it would stop raining 

676
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,640
long enough for me to get to 
another one. 

677
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,360
And at one I was sitting there 
and it was just pouring down 

678
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,880
rain and I had my phone with me 
and I was like, Oh, I'm just 

679
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,640
going to listen to David Suchet 
read the Bible while I'm in this

680
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,720
rainstorm. 
And I actually felt like, no, 

681
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,200
I'm just going to. 
I kind of felt like the Lord 

682
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,800
said, why can't you just enjoy 
the rain? 

683
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,280
Just just put the phone and I 
was like, I've got time. 

684
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,360
I can afford. 
I like the language of 

685
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,160
affording, being able to afford 
like, because I've been loved so

686
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,840
well and I don't really have to 
worry about that. 

687
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,320
Then I can afford to sit still 
and I can afford to not do 

688
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,520
anything or be getting anything 
done and I can just enjoy this 

689
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,040
rainstorm. 
I can turn toward it. 

690
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:48,240
I think it's really important, 
your story implicitly there you 

691
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:54,920
recognize the good of the rain. 
Going back to Aquinas, he says 

692
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,440
that the will only acts on the 
good, but the good is provided 

693
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,920
to the will by the intellect. 
So what do we see as good? 

694
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,600
I think there's a catch 22 here 
that we've been talking about. 

695
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,520
Yeah, we need to habituate 
ourselves. 

696
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,840
We need to have the habit of 
turning towards we need to make 

697
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,440
the right choices, but we're not
going to want to make the right 

698
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,200
choices unless we behold the 
good and we already see so that 

699
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,360
we want to go do that thing 
that's that's putting the cart 

700
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,040
before the horse to think about,
oh, I can habituate myself to 

701
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,040
have the right character. 
Only the Holy Spirit can come in

702
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:36,160
and transform from your 
affections towards what is good.

703
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:41,160
And so I say that just because 
at the end of the day, when I'm 

704
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,040
doing dishes in the kitchen 
sink, I don't have a really 

705
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,160
beautiful rainfall storm I'm 
caught in with nothing to do. 

706
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,320
It's really easy for me to say 
what's the good here? 

707
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,520
Why? 
Why wouldn't I fill it with 

708
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,360
something better? 
But to realize that God has 

709
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,560
given you this moment and there 
is goodness there. 

710
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,480
So my question is, how do we 
begin to behold the good in the 

711
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,440
kitchen sink so that we can 
habituate ourselves to turn 

712
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,280
towards? 
Yep. 

713
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,440
And I think you did, you did the
right thing there, Sarah, by 

714
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,760
calling out that tension because
there's, I think this is one of 

715
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:28,080
those things where we in our 
finite understanding put tension

716
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,680
on it, But there's less, there's
less tension between those two 

717
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:35,520
things than we realize when we 
want to create nice little tidy,

718
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:41,120
bullet pointy doctrines. 
Then we look at the the free 

719
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,520
gift of grace on the one hand 
and works on the other. 

720
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,440
And we go, oh gosh, got to be 
clear. 

721
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,040
We're talking about this one, 
not this one. 

722
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,680
Or we miss that and go straight 
into the the works, right. 

723
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,400
And we get all pressure filled 
about them. 

724
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,040
But sometimes I think it's, it's
helpful with some of these 

725
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,280
conversations to go back to the 
what were we made for? 

726
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,480
Because that helps to then push 
forward to what were we redeemed

727
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,400
for? 
And we were made to glorify God.

728
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:15,160
We were made to mobilize the 
world for the worship of God. 

729
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,240
We couldn't spend the whole 
episode just unpacking that 

730
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,480
idea. 
But I think the the key of it is

731
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,160
we can we can have this tendency
to think that free gift of 

732
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,360
grace. 
Great. 

733
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,080
I don't have to do that. 
No, we can also think, Oh gosh, 

734
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,000
mobilizing the whole world for 
the worship of God pressure. 

735
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:43,200
But I there's a there's a why 
behind everything we've been 

736
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,080
talking about in this 
conversation that we haven't 

737
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,960
quite crossed the finish line of
this why. 

738
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:58,560
And in that why, we see that our
entry point into this great 

739
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,800
cosmic battle of good and evil 
into mobilizing the world for 

740
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:08,760
the worship of God, transforming
the world through his grace into

741
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,640
a temple fit for him. 
Our entry point is the kitchen 

742
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,440
sink. 
I just finished reading Josh 

743
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,280
Nadeau's book, Room for Good 
Things to Run Wild, which was a 

744
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,920
recommendation from one of our 
listeners. 

745
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,600
Actually really good book and 
one of the many things that I 

746
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:29,520
underlined in that book was he 
said a life of virtue in the 

747
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,240
normalcy of life is priceless, 
for it imbues that which is 

748
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,840
finite and temporal with the 
infinite and eternal. 

749
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,840
A life of virtue in the normalcy
of life is priceless, for it 

750
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,960
imbues that which is finite and 
temporal with the infinite and 

751
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,360
eternal. 
We do feel that sort of that 

752
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,320
pull of immortality, but when we
think about mobilizing the world

753
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,520
for the worship of God, we can 
be tempted to feel that sense 

754
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,960
of, gosh, if I don't, if I don't
bring eternity to this, this 

755
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,480
now, no one will. 
And that's actually true. 

756
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,920
If, if, if you do not bring 
eternity to the doing the 

757
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,200
dishes, the dinner dishes right 
now, tonight, no one will 

758
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,800
because you're the one doing 
them. 

759
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,200
That is true. 
However, that's not supposed to 

760
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,360
be pressure. 
That's supposed to be 

761
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,800
permission. 
And how beautiful that God gives

762
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,160
us this moment. 
Peterson has a song called 

763
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,720
Centering Prayer, and one of his
verses says, I chase my worries,

764
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,560
I flee my sorrows, but what you 
give me is now. 

765
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,240
So take my burdens and my 
tomorrow's. 

766
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:41,680
I want to be where my feet are. 
And it's funny that the Second 

767
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,360
Great Awakening's pressure is 
now, now, now you got to do 

768
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,840
something now, when really it 
that's the truth. 

769
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:54,000
To your point, it is now all we 
have to do is bring eternity to 

770
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,440
now. 
But there's not a pressure that 

771
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,680
we have to manufacture some 
greatness. 

772
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,120
It is the fact that God has 
given us now. 

773
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,760
He knows exactly what we need. 
It's the gift of right now that 

774
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,800
he's asking us to walk into and 
if there be a great act in the 

775
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,800
now that is presented to you, 
the faithfulness of you 

776
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,560
continuingly turning towards God
and saying, what will you have 

777
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,160
me do? 
How can I love my baby girl on 

778
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,240
the floor as she's getting her 
diaper changed to doing 

779
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:26,840
something that might seem really
cool later, right? 

780
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,640
It's the now and you so you 
don't have to worry about 

781
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,920
there's no pressure. 
It's just fellowship with God in

782
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,800
the now, with the gift of life 
that He has given us in front of

783
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,720
our eyes to imbue with eternity 
for His glory. 

784
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,400
The beginning of that sentence 
being really important 

785
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:49,440
fellowship with God. 
That's that's that's the the end

786
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:56,120
right beyond this world of what 
we were made for union with God.

787
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,320
You started our conversation 
with that union with God. 

788
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Christ is right there with you 
in the here and now, and He's 

789
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,320
inviting you into his work in 
those dishes. 

790
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,880
That's crazy stuff. 
I think too, it's sometimes 

791
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,880
easier to be in fellowship with 
God when doing the dishes or and

792
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,160
I used to mow lawns all the time
and I found some of the best, 

793
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,160
most close times I've ever had 
with God was mowing lawns as you

794
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,600
can sing and pray. 
And I find that much, much 

795
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,560
easier to connect with God in 
that type of activity than, you 

796
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,800
know, a lot of the really great,
spectacular, supernatural, you 

797
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,440
know, type things. 
Yeah, I'm, I just started 

798
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,360
reading The Beauty of Everyday 
Things by Suetsu Yanagi. 

799
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,880
I've only read the first 
chapter, but in the 1st chapter 

800
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,520
he talks about how when you 
think about people who are, 

801
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,200
let's say, fine artists, right 
Matthew, you write music or 

802
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,960
somebody's paints paintings like
that kind of creating. 

803
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,480
And he makes the observation 
that part of the reason that 

804
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,040
those people with those 
vocations feel so much pressure 

805
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,680
to create masterworks to bring 
all this incredible amount of 

806
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,720
beauty into the world is because
for a variety of reasons, we 

807
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:15,200
don't need to talk about in this
conversation, We, we inhabit a 

808
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,680
world where the things that we 
see and touch on a minute to 

809
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,760
minute basis are ugly, mass 
produced and not worth caring 

810
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:30,720
about. 
So because my spoon came from a 

811
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:37,240
factory and I'm, I touch it 
every morning, That little tiny 

812
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,680
interaction, even being fully 
present to that little tiny 

813
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,640
interaction trains me a little 
micro step away from being fully

814
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,480
present, away from beauty 
because the thing itself is not 

815
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,320
worth caring about. 
Similarly, I think we have this,

816
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,880
this constant temptation we're 
we're we're filled with a lot of

817
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,480
stuff that, yeah, isn't worth 
caring about. 

818
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,960
You know, the doom scrolling on 
social media, not worth caring 

819
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,040
about the the hideous building 
maybe that we work in not worth 

820
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,120
caring. 
But there are ways in which the 

821
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:14,000
world is sickened by sin and it 
can be harder to be fully 

822
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,760
present to turn towards whatever
the situation might call for. 

823
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,960
But it's such a good example, 
Jeremiah. 

824
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,080
There's there's always an answer
to the question of what it looks

825
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,440
like to turn toward, to be fully
present, to be in union with 

826
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,920
Christ in in that moment, even 
if it's some some of those 

827
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,240
moments are harder than others 
in those contexts are harder 

828
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:37,160
than others. 
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing 

829
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,480
up art making because there's, 
there is a lot of pressure to be

830
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,400
famous or successful. 
And like how, what are the ways 

831
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,480
that you find out if you've 
actually arrived there? 

832
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,280
It's like you're looking at how 
many people are liking my posts 

833
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,520
or how many people are what are 
the what's the little number on 

834
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,800
Spotify? 
And it, that stuff is so 

835
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,920
exhausting. 
And one of the things that one 

836
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,880
of the ways that I was kind of 
processing that some years ago 

837
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,560
and trying to get a grip on like
how, how do I need to live in 

838
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,800
this kind of a space? 
And I wrote a song called 

839
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,560
Beautiful Secret Life. 
And part of the story that I 

840
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,800
tell when in concerts is that 
Jesus had this. 

841
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,840
Jesus came to earth, became a 
human tabernacled among us to 

842
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,720
show us the Father, to show us 
the life of the Trinity and to 

843
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:36,200
invite us into that life, to 
incorporate us into himself, to 

844
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:41,840
draw us up into that life. 
And only three years of that 

845
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:48,080
ministry are public versus 30 
years which are totally hidden 

846
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,080
and private where he's just 
doing ordinary things like 

847
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,640
helping mom with the dishes and 
like feeding the dog and taking 

848
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,320
out the trash. 
Like that's actually most of 

849
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,160
what he does with his earthly 
life Ministry is like stuff that

850
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,560
is so boring, nobody even took 
much time to write about it. 

851
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,400
But I think that that's 
deliberate. 

852
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,120
I think that's this way that in 
his earthly life, Jesus was 

853
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,720
deliberate to actually have most
of it be what life is really 

854
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:18,760
like. 
And then he goes and he has 

855
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:23,880
these three concentrated years 
of unhidden or public ministry. 

856
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,960
But that's all I mean, and 
that's incredibly important. 

857
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,800
He he we're so thankful for 
that. 

858
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,360
But I don't think that that 30 
years like doesn't count like I 

859
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,680
think it and, and I wonder if 
sometimes that ratio is like 

860
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,160
given to us as a realistic 
expectation. 

861
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,000
Maybe 10% of your life is going 
to be sort of acknowledged 

862
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,760
externally or seen. 
Hopefully it won't get you 

863
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,200
killed, like it got Jesus 
killed. 

864
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:57,280
But hopefully, but but you're, 
but you're 30 years, you're the 

865
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,760
rest of that 90%. 
Don't miss that. 

866
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:05,080
Don't don't dismiss that because
it, it actually really matters. 

867
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,040
So that's, that just kind of 
helps me. 

868
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,720
I've come back to that again and
again to to try to stay 

869
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,960
oriented. 
And it matters for the thing, 

870
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,440
for the situation, but it also 
matters for you because that the

871
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,560
repetition of those those 
moments is, is God working on 

872
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,400
you? 
The we talked a while back about

873
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,280
a few a few months ago about 
story of the Bishop in Les Mis. 

874
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,320
And there's a great little quote
in that story about how his 

875
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,880
character was formed by this 
little like this drips of water 

876
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,960
and the the rock formations that
are formed by drips of water 

877
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:45,120
over millennia are, are just 
indestructible. 

878
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:50,680
They're so hard, they're so 
difficult to ruin by in in in a 

879
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,840
human's case that that moment of
temptation or sin or whatever it

880
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,680
is, he has this deeply formed 
character through the repetition

881
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,280
of the transformative power of 
minute to minute faithfulness 

882
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,160
and seemingly mundane tasks. 
The kitchen sink activities are 

883
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,080
necessary to prepare you for the
hero's journey. 

884
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,240
You know, I mean, if you look 
back to Encanto, right, you 

885
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:16,440
know, when she's five years old,
you know, she's about to get her

886
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,440
amazing room, which I mean, if 
you think about all the 

887
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,240
different rooms that are in 
there, I mean, they're, you 

888
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:21,760
know, way bigger on the inside 
than the outside. 

889
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,280
There's amazing, fantastic 
things. 

890
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,240
She goes up to her door and it 
just like, goes away. 

891
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,240
And so she goes back into the 
nursery where she like has to 

892
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:31,320
share a room with, you know, 
like another kid. 

893
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,200
But like, right at the beginning
of the movie, you see that her 

894
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,440
having to live in that tiny 
little room shared with that 

895
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,200
other boy was what made her 
prepared to listen. 

896
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,840
And that was like, her whole 
thing is she could listen and 

897
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,000
love where other people weren't 
and they weren't weren't hearing

898
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,560
that. 
And from the very moment where 

899
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,360
she kind of, you know, like, 
encourages the, the other board 

900
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,840
of, you know, go through the 
ceremony and, you know, hold his

901
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,080
hand through it and, you know, 
immediately, you know, the boy, 

902
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,880
you know, turns to her, you 
know, help me. 

903
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,600
I'm embarrassed and nervous. 
Help me down here. 

904
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,680
And it was already that she had 
formed that relationship by 

905
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,840
doing the boring thing of having
to live in the nursery and, you 

906
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,920
know, be with this kid every 
single day. 

907
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:15,480
And yeah, that's what fostered 
that amazing superpower that she

908
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,760
had, which was just to listen 
and be observant and be present 

909
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,240
and love. 
If I could read from Fedor 

910
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:26,000
Dostoevsky's brother's kid 
Father Zosama talks about active

911
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,080
love and the and the difference 
between that and love and 

912
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,680
dreams. 
He calls. 

913
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,760
He says active love is a harsh 
and fearful thing compared to 

914
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,800
love with in compared with love 
and dreams. 

915
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,400
Love and Dreams thirsts for 
immediate action, quickly 

916
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,760
performed and with everyone 
watching. 

917
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,120
Indeed, it will go as far as 
giving even one's life, provided

918
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,800
it does not take long, but as 
soon over as on stage and 

919
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,400
everyone is looking on and 
praising. 

920
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:59,160
Whereas act of love is labor and
perseverance, he says. 

921
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,320
But I predict that even in that 
very moment when you see with 

922
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,960
horror that despite all your 
efforts, you not only have come 

923
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,240
not nearer your goal, but seem 
to have gotten farther from it, 

924
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,920
at that very moment I predict 
this to you, you will suddenly 

925
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,880
reach your goal and will clearly
behold over you the wonder 

926
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,760
working power of the Lord, who 
all the while has been loving 

927
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,840
you and all the while has been 
mysteriously guiding you. 

928
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,360
Yes. 
A George Eliot in Middlemarch, 

929
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,440
one of her novels, says that the
growing good of the world is 

930
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,440
partly dependent on unhistoric 
acts, and that things are not so

931
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,560
I'll with you and me as they 
might have been, is half owing 

932
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,840
to the number who lived 
faithfully a hidden life. 

933
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:50,120
And I kind of wonder if the most
courageous, heroic story that we

934
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:57,400
can have is the work of a hidden
life, so that Christ's life may 

935
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,280
increase and we decrease. 
John Adams said something 

936
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,200
similar to the Dostoevsky quote,
that he contrasted the desire 

937
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,920
for fame with the desire to be 
respected by the people who know

938
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,640
you best. 
And ambition in the bad sense is

939
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,160
the first. 
But what you should want is for 

940
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,800
the people who know you best, 
the people who are most likely 

941
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,760
to have seen those hidden 
moments, which starts with God, 

942
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,000
who has seen all of them. 
You know, yeah, it may be that 

943
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,200
the thing you're best at is 
something that your, even your 

944
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,200
relatively immediate social 
circle never sees. 

945
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,360
But that doesn't mean it's not 
you. 

946
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,120
It doesn't mean it's not seen in
a huge sense. 

947
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,680
And it certainly doesn't mean 
that those that that doesn't 

948
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:48,400
matter in the end of Encanto is 
Mirabelle's family literally 

949
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,840
singing to her. 
We we see you. 

950
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:56,520
We see how brave you've been. 
We see like it's, it's not, it's

951
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:57,520
not. 
I see your gifts. 

952
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,600
It's like I see who you are. 
And they had to lose their 

953
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:02,720
superpowers to not be so 
distracted that they could. 

954
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,080
Yep. 
Well, we have barely scratched 

955
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:12,960
the surface of this, but the 
good news is, first of all, we 

956
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:19,600
continue in our next episode, 
coming very shortly, diving into

957
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,400
very practical questions related
to calling and vocation through 

958
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,840
the lens of Tom Bombadil, that 
jolly old fellow. 

959
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,720
So join us at 
anselmsociety.org/bombadil to 

960
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,680
join us for that. 
And our episode after that in 

961
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,000
July will actually both our 
episodes in July are also going 

962
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,600
to pick up on this theme. 
So we will have a lot more time 

963
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,600
to meditate on the meaning of 
all of this and more 

964
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:52,000
importantly, picking up from 
this point and going into all 

965
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,040
right, great. 
What, what are the, the 

966
00:57:54,040 --> 00:58:00,480
practices that help us more 
fully feel and enter into God's 

967
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,760
presence in these kinds of 
moments? 

968
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,680
I want to end with a little hat 
tip to Jeremiah for bringing up 

969
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,360
Chariots of Fire. 
Because in Chariots of Fire, my 

970
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,080
friends, there is a song where 
Eric Little or a scene where 

971
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,480
Eric Little is singing in the 
choir in church. 

972
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,880
And those scenes are juxtaposed 
with scenes of people running in

973
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:26,320
the rain. 
That melody is best known for 

974
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,040
for a hymn called Jesus Shall 
Reign. 

975
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,080
But the words they're singing 
are a hymn called Fight the Good

976
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,160
Fight and which I think is a 
Wesley ham, come to think of it.

977
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,600
And there is a verse in that 
hymn that will just make you. 

978
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,240
It is just a chef's kiss from 
the director because if you have

979
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:47,240
seen this movie, you know that 
when Eric Little is fully 

980
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:53,840
entering into the love of God in
the moment, that is when he runs

981
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,480
his fastest. 
And we'd as the viewers know 

982
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,720
that he has hit that moment when
his head goes up. 

983
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,600
Listen to this first from the 
hymn. 

984
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,000
Run the straight race through 
God's good grace. 

985
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,600
Lift up thine eyes and seek his 
face. 

986
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,400
Life with its way before us 
lies. 

987
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,080
Christ is the path and Christ 
the prize. 

988
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,840
Thank you everyone for spending 
this time with us and we will 

989
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:33,720
see you next time. 
The Imagination Redeemed podcast

990
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,720
is the production of the Anselm 
Society. 

991
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,800
It's easy to see this world as 
disenchanted and to give up hope

992
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,400
that there's more. 
But you were made to see the 

993
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,520
world with the eyes of heaven 
and to live a bountiful life 

994
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,280
that participates in the life of
God like in the great stories. 

995
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,360
To help us make this show 
possible, go to 

996
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,520
anselmsociety.org/podcast 25 and
make a donation. 

997
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,840
The Anselm Society is a place 
where you can come in and 

998
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,440
experience that beauty, joyful 
celebration, and ancient wisdom 

999
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,080
and go out renewed, bringing 
that life to your vocation, 

1000
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,640
home, and church. 
Learn more at anselmsociety.org 

1001
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,360
and join us next time as we 
pursue a renaissance of the 

1002
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:20,520
Christian imagination together. 
Bonus episode of the Imagination

1003
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,640
Redeemed Podcast comes courtesy 
of an event we Co sponsored with

1004
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,000
the NICAEA Study Center in 
Colorado Springs. 

1005
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,280
The NICAEA Study Center works on
and around the campuses of 

1006
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,160
Colorado Springs universities, 
cultivating the good and 

1007
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,840
abundant life by encouraging 
followers of Christ to love God 

1008
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,480
with their minds as well as 
their strengths, souls, and 

1009
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,760
hearts through reflection on an 
engagement with the intellectual

1010
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,960
heritage of the historical 
Christian faith. 

1011
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,440
Then I See a Study Center offers
academic activities such as 

1012
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,240
seminars, colloquies, and 
lectures to introduce students 

1013
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,040
to the vital heritage of 
Christian thought. 

1014
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,920
It trains students to integrate 
their faith and their learning 

1015
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,200
by providing opportunities to 
engage in thoughtful, honest 

1016
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,400
discussions around life's most 
important and meaningful 

1017
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,680
questions. 
It also provides resources to 

1018
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,680
help students and faculty think 
Christianly about their 

1019
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,640
scholarship and teaching. 
All of this is carried out on a 

1020
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,440
foundation of intellectual and 
practical hospitality. 

1021
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,840
You can learn more at 
nicaeastudycenter.org. 

1022
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,480
That's NICAEA studycenter.org.