1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000 Spring is the season when impossibility becomes possible. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,680 Just when winter seems interminable, life bursts out of 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,240 what seems dead. The hard earth cracks open, 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,240 buried seeds thrust toward light. 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,200 What looks like an ending reveals itself as a beginning. 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Tolkien called moments like this AU catastrophe, a sudden joyful 7 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,680 turn when all else seemed lost. It marks the best scenes in so 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,880 many great stories. The stone rolls away. 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,440 The king returns. Death itself dies, but here's 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,840 what we often miss AU Catastrophe isn't just the 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,800 climax of the story, it's the pattern of reality itself. 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,280 Every seed that falls into the ground, every winter that gives 13 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,440 way to spring, every small death that leads to resurrection 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,320 participates in the great story. The sudden joyous turn isn't and 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,000 out of nowhere miracle. It's the shape of how God works 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,000 in the world. Again and again, in 10,000 17 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,200 places this spring, we'll explore what it means to live as 18 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,240 people of U catastrophe, not just believing in Easter as a 19 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,600 past event, but recognizing its pattern everywhere. 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,960 We'll learn to see resurrection not as escape from the material 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,320 world, but as its consummation and fulfillment. 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,400 We'll discover how Christ's incarnation, death, and 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,120 resurrection didn't innovate a news story, but brought the 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,240 original story to its turning point. 25 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,440 The pattern which models the coming hope in the face of 26 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,040 seemingly hopeless situations surely has power to reset the 27 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,880 spirits of anyone encountering A frightening diagnosis, a 28 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,560 devastating disappointment, a loved one's death. 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,040 But this is what resurrection looks like. 30 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,960 Seeds dying and rising, small acts of faithfulness becoming 31 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,480 eternal. The material world shot through 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,600 with glory and everything, Everything turning towards the 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,560 sudden joyous turn of Easter morning. 34 00:01:48,140 --> 00:01:52,100 Welcome to the Imagination Redeemed podcast where we follow 35 00:01:52,140 --> 00:01:56,140 the great stories further up and further in In Pursuit of the 36 00:01:56,140 --> 00:02:04,760 Life of Christ. Hello, everyone, and welcome to 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,120 the Imagination Redeem podcast. I'm Sarah Howell, one of your 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,400 hosts, and today we are with Caroline Williams, our own 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,880 Associate Editor and Outreach Coordinator. 40 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,560 Hello everyone. We are now in that liminal space 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,840 between winter and spring. Sometimes it feels like the hope 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,920 is growing and we're moving towards spring and sometimes it 43 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,760 feels like the winter will. But that is Lent. 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,120 Lent is here and Easter is coming. 45 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,560 This year it's April 5th, but we're getting ready for this 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,880 season focused on one of our favorite concepts here at the 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,080 Anselm Society. And that is the spring's theme. 48 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,840 It's you catastrophe and the sudden joyous turn. 49 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:50,480 Caroline, have you heard the term you catastrophe before 50 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,920 coming to the Anselm Society, or what's your relationship with 51 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:55,240 that word? It's kind of a weird one. 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,840 It is a weird one, I would say yes, but very much within 53 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,160 circles that are adjacent to the Anselm Society. 54 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,880 I think it's something that we all love to talk about. 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,280 It did help me put words though, to why spring is my absolute 56 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,360 favorite season of the year. Always. 57 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,280 I was looking back at childhood journals the other day and my 58 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,400 most exuberant journal entries were always when we were putting 59 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:18,880 the garden in and it was springtime. 60 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,320 And it makes me chuckle to this day 'cause I think I knew before 61 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,280 I even had words to put to why why it made me so excited. 62 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,200 And I think that really is the big reason why you catastrophe 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,160 matters is because it's not just good storytelling, but like 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,280 you're saying, it's literally the pattern of reality that you 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,520 intuited as a child every year that gave you such hope. 66 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,600 I know we said in our fall preview that the fall is kind of 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,040 my version of that. I love, I love fall, and I 68 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,400 really struggle with the spring. So really. 69 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,840 Yeah, I really do. I honestly thought that you 70 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,160 catastrophe was only the coin term for what specifically 71 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,760 happens in The Lord of the Rings when the ring is destroyed. 72 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Like, I didn't realize that it was a pattern at all. 73 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,440 I thought it was completely isolated to Tolkien made-up this 74 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,600 word for the way that he ended his story. 75 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,560 And that's what it is, right? It's the you. 76 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,000 Catastrophe is that moment in the story when everything truly 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,720 seems lost. And then there is a sudden 78 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,320 joyous turn that happens. And it's surprising, but also 79 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,240 feels right. Yeah, it's, it's the part that 80 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,600 you're waiting for and hoping for. 81 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,280 It's not just good storytelling, it's the pattern that we 82 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,240 experience in in seasons and in our own lives. 83 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:42,080 And I mean, we've all had those seasons where it just feels very 84 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:47,480 long and very wearying. And you end up living out that 85 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,120 rhythm in ways that maybe we would choose not to. 86 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,760 I was reminded this week of I know it's not the exact 87 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,680 Chesterton quote, but the paraphrase of it that says 88 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,480 children know that Dragons exist and fairy tales don't tell them 89 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,320 that the Dragons exist, it just tells them that the Dragons can 90 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,760 be killed. It when you put those two 91 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,800 together, the arcs of the fairy story and the great story, you 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,320 see the, the, the parallel, right? 93 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,560 You have the status quo in a fairy tale that you have a 94 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,160 monster arise. Then you have to have a hero 95 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,400 arise to conquer the monster. The monster is slain and then 96 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,560 there's a new normal. But the new normal is better 97 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,360 than the status quo at the beginning. 98 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,080 And that's creation, fall, incarnation, the hero coming, 99 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,320 redemption, the monster slain and consummation. 100 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,680 It's not just where we were before. 101 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,680 It's something even better. It's a a marriage between God 102 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,520 and his earth. Yeah, yeah. 103 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,440 And I think it's very human to need constant reminders of that 104 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,360 and I love that we have those reminders both in nature and in 105 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,000 these stories. I think children get it a lot 106 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,760 faster than we do though. And I experienced this with my 107 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,120 kids just this week because they are big fans of the original How 108 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,800 to Train Your Dragon movie, very attached to it. 109 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,800 My 5 year old will watch and rewatch it and we'll actually 110 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,840 get tears in his eyes at the test flight part of the movie. 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,880 And so being the mom that I am, I was very reluctant to let them 112 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,680 watch the second movie because no spoilers, but it's just, it's 113 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,440 more sad and I held off on letting them watch it for a 114 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,120 while. But he finally wore me down. 115 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,760 And so I tried to prepare them as best as I could for watching 116 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,560 a story that was just going to be a little bit heavier and was 117 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,640 in the background doing housework things while they were 118 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,600 watching it, keeping an eye on him. 119 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,360 But he asked me to sit down and watch it with him again and very 120 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,160 specifically wanted me to sit down and, and experience it with 121 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,920 him. And he started the movie right 122 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,680 before the bad thing happens. And the part where it genuinely 123 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,080 seems like all hope is lost. And of course I start crying 124 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,080 because I, I think I get it for my dad. 125 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,680 I cry at movies every single time. 126 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,560 No shame and I think my 5 year old knew that too and wanted to 127 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,600 sit and just feel all the emotions with me. 128 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,600 But then there's that point where hiccups bond with 129 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,320 toothless just breaks through the control of the evil and love 130 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,400 and forgiveness conquers what was horribly tragic in the 131 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,240 story. And my 5 year old just turns and 132 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,000 locks eyes with me and says I knew you'd like that part too 133 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,640 and gives me this hug. And I just, it broke me in the 134 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,560 sweetest and best way because he for whatever reason, he wanted 135 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,320 to experience that with me and he found relief and comfort in 136 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,440 watching that story arc. And I think again, like I just 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:57,200 said, children know and are very into it towards what those types 138 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,000 of stories tell us about the big story and their own lives and 139 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,240 what is true. And it was just a really 140 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,920 beautiful reminder for for all of that. 141 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,320 So. Beautiful. 142 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,320 I remember trying to watch How to Train Your Dragon 2 when I 143 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,000 was pregnant and it was so emotional for me. 144 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,800 I had to stop halfway through. So again, I guess we're just 145 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,440 showing how this pattern is, is really hard for me because I 146 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,400 often see the very buried seeds and I don't recognize where it's 147 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,600 hard for me to have the courage to make it to the point in 148 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,760 spring where the seeds thrust towards light. 149 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,120 And so that's kind of the theme that we'll be covering in all 150 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,840 sorts of ways. We'll be exploring this pattern 151 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,360 not only in stories, but like you're saying, Beaconer calls 152 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,800 it, our instinct. For you, catastrophe is our 153 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,760 intuition of truth. We'll also be looking at this in 154 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,400 the pattern of Scripture and how God's people through church 155 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,320 history have experience, experience this pattern of 156 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,800 ultimately, when we're in the already and not yet, it's 157 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:10,920 faithfulness in this long defeat season where we might be seeing 158 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,400 a lot of seeds being buried and we have not yet had the full 159 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,600 resurrection of the body when Christ returns. 160 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,480 And so we are in that liminal space on the meta narrative, 161 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,840 just as we are in the liminal space of winter and spring. 162 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,600 What does it look like for us to live expecting the sudden joy's 163 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,200 turn, especially as someone who loves the season so much? 164 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,120 Love that question. It's one that I'll probably be 165 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,160 asking and exploring until the day I die. 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,800 I think it gives us a place to live. 167 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:54,280 That's not being naive and what I like to call Pollyanna. 168 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,080 I love Pollyanna as a child. But it's not naive, it's not 169 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,160 putting your head in the sand, It's not ignoring very dark 170 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,720 realities that we've all experienced either just in 171 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,920 general or what it means to live in a fallen world or in very 172 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,400 particular seasons of life where you're dealing with very hard 173 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,760 things that seem like they might never end. 174 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,120 Kind of like winter for you where you live. 175 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:20,840 But neither is it resigned pessimism. 176 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,560 And I think that's the other trap that we can fall into is, 177 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,400 is thinking that if we are paying attention and if we are 178 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,440 honest about a lot of the realities that we're facing, our 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,920 only correct response is to be downhearted. 180 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,440 And that's so sad to me because it misses the most beautiful 181 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,680 part of what Christianity gives us in a hope that can hold joy 182 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:48,760 and weeping together. I loved the work that y'all did 183 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,400 on the podcast last spring with the theme of hope and despair 184 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:59,800 because a lot of those episodes really got into the grittiness 185 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,320 of the dangers of despair and a hope that is strong enough to 186 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,640 hold us and believe like Julian and Bar, which says all should 187 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,360 be well. So I would encourage listeners 188 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,280 to go listen to Last Spring as we build up to the spring 189 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,160 because a lot of these episodes really just lead so beautifully 190 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,920 into what we'll be talking about this year. 191 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,240 Yeah, we'll do our best also to link in our show notes to the 192 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,800 pertinent episodes from the spring season so that when you 193 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:34,200 listen to this one in March about fairy tales, you might 194 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,840 want to go back and think about the Red Cross Knight. 195 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,920 And how while that story is a story of triumph, the part that 196 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:47,080 we focus on last March is the moment of despair when if the 197 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,720 story ended there, it would have been a dark fairy tale story. 198 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,800 And yeah, And so in that sense, every good fairy tale has a 199 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,680 point where if you stopped in the middle, it would become a 200 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,160 dark fairy tale story. But I guess I'm getting ahead of 201 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,920 myself and we might as well jump in. 202 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,560 Why not? To a little bit of an episode 203 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:11,280 preview for you all, just to whet your guys's appetite. 204 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,800 But this March, during the season of Lent, we'll be 205 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:20,560 thinking about that meta narrative that we see within 206 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,720 good storytelling, specifically with fairy tales. 207 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,320 We'll start with talking about dark fairy tales, how those dark 208 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,800 stories prepare us for hope, just like Ash Wednesday prepares 209 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,280 us for Easter. And then as we move towards 210 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,840 Easter, which is very early this year, at the end of March, we'll 211 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,760 be thinking about the Cinderella story. 212 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,680 And throughout cultures that have no contact with one 213 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,480 another, yet still have the story, What is that universal 214 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,240 appeal? Does it show some sort of 215 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,600 instinct for you? Catastrophe as our intuition of 216 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,360 truth. And then after that, in April 217 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,040 and in May, we'll be thinking a little bit more about what this 218 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,920 means for our physical lives. Now that we've looked at the 219 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,800 pattern in story, what does this mean for the pattern of our 220 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,040 reality? And so we'll start with our 221 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,760 literal physical reality. And that their singular physical 222 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,120 fact that changes everything is that Jesus's body rose. 223 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,040 And so the body is in itself you. 224 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,960 Catastrophe embodied, life affirmed forever, right? 225 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,640 And so with that as our beautiful linchpin, our climax, 226 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:45,720 our turning point, we'll focus more into May on what does it 227 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:51,840 look like for us to be living in the already and not yet the 228 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,520 difference, like you were talking about, Caroline, between 229 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,600 optimism, pessimism, and hope. And we'll be drawing a lot on 230 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,320 church history for this because we have the great cloud of 231 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,640 witnesses that have come before us. 232 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,960 And So what does it look like to train ourselves and have your 233 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,800 catastrophe as that training manual? 234 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,240 We'll look a little bit at the church calendar itself, but also 235 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,560 just the rhythms that we go through. 236 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:21,320 And so again, we'll focus first on narrative, then we'll move 237 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,560 into what does this mean for our physical life because of what 238 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,760 the incarnation in the resurrection has done for us and 239 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,640 to us. And then therefore, what do we 240 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,800 do with that? And so that's a little bit of a 241 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,680 sneak peek of what we'll be focusing on what time of the 242 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:46,760 seasons. But beyond that, there is still 243 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,240 so much richness. Caroline, are there things 244 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,880 beyond the podcast that you think it would be important for 245 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,920 our listeners to know about, whether it's on our sub stack 246 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,040 and what just keep an eye out for and just other resources 247 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,280 that you have been thinking about? 248 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,560 Yeah, so I did chuckle internally as she was saying we 249 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,440 will be putting these things in the share notes because she 250 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,040 means me. She means and I love, I love 251 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,880 putting the things together on Sub Stack and I. 252 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,480 I've seen, I've seen some lists and some ideas from Brian and I. 253 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,120 I'm very excited about the pieces and the resources that 254 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,600 will be going up there and elsewhere and also what the 255 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,200 amazing Gatherings team will be doing locally in Colorado 256 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,560 Springs. It is a sadness in my life that 257 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,160 I do not live locally to Colorado. 258 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,600 I wish I could be there and attend a lot of their spring 259 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:45,000 gatherings, but such is life. And regarding the stories and 260 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,720 literature this spring, I know I'm going to be trying to read 261 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,120 the line, The Witch and the Wardrobe to my boys at some 262 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,240 point this spring. And Sarah actually just 263 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,720 mentioned The Light Princess by George McDonald, which I have 264 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,160 not read, so I will be going to find that and reading it myself. 265 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,400 I am so excited for you to read that story. 266 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,440 It is amazing. I'm hoping that it becomes one 267 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,160 of our opening stories for April. 268 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,040 It's it's. I highly recommend it to 269 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,360 everyone, especially if you have kids, because it is such a 270 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:22,040 beautiful and rich deep story that's pretty accessible and 271 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,480 short. The allegory is pretty on the 272 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,800 nose, but that doesn't take away from its depth, so you can't go 273 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,400 wrong. I'm really excited to kind of 274 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,320 dig in more into the dark fairy tale stories I'm in, pushing 275 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,440 myself to see why it matters because there that's something 276 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:48,080 that's interesting about if I do fall towards the resignated 277 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:53,000 pessimism, I often think that the way I can combat that is to 278 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,080 actually look at the darkness, because it's only when I look at 279 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:04,119 the darkness that I have the the eyes to begin to desire to see 280 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,760 the light. But if I stay in the Gray, this 281 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:12,200 lukewarm place where I'm not willing to enter in, I can't 282 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,560 ever get to the end. I know, I know, because hope is 283 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,280 scary, right? But I think that's the lesson I 284 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,280 learned in holding my 5 year old back from an experience he 285 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,880 clearly needed watching that movie. 286 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,480 I was trying to keep him in this, you know, not expose him 287 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,960 to the sad story. And he needed to to go there and 288 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,080 see the sad and then experience the ending of the movie. 289 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,240 I'm excited to start noticing more this year you catastrophe 290 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,800 moments in the stories that I already love, but also paying 291 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,840 attention to the spring itself. I'd really encourage our 292 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,800 listeners to do those two things too. 293 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,400 Is there anything else, Caroline, that you would 294 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:02,160 recommend doing as as we prepare and as we enter into the season? 295 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,000 The season, yeah. Well, I do think after talking 296 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,600 today, I'm going to add the essay by talking on fairy 297 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,520 stories to these show notes. So those should be available to 298 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:13,800 you if you're listening to this episode. 299 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,040 That's a great place to start reading that with what Sarah was 300 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,600 saying about noticing those moments and stories get started 301 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,720 there. And we will be keeping you 302 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,240 updated on new episodes, of course, on our social media, 303 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,960 also on our sub stack. So subscribe to the sub stack 304 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,160 and subscribe to the podcast, obviously, wherever you listen 305 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,560 to your podcast so that you don't miss them and stay tuned 306 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,640 for new episodes and share with your friends. 307 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,200 If you have friends who you know love stories and get excited 308 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,400 talking about this stuff and love the church calendar and get 309 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,280 excited about spring, like me, the conversations you can have 310 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,840 for coffee and around a dinner table about these things can can 311 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,800 just add so much both to your relationships and just to your 312 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,280 to your daily life. So if you have friends who you 313 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,040 think would be excited about this, definitely share it with 314 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,600 them. So thanks, Caroline. 315 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,640 I'll leave you guys with this final thought. 316 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,520 Spring is coming. The hard ground is about to 317 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,560 break open. The seeds are about to rise and 318 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,640 we are going to explore together why this pattern, The sudden 319 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,400 joyous turn is not just a narrative device, but the very 320 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,440 shape of the universe God has made. 321 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,880 The Imagination Redeemed podcast is a production of the Anselm 322 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,120 Society. It's easy to see this world as 323 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,680 disenchanted and to give up hope that there's more. 324 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,080 But you were made to see the world with the eyes of heaven 325 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,440 and to live a bountiful life that participates in the life of 326 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,480 God, like in the great stories. To help make the show possible, 327 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:54,000 go to Anselm society.org/podcast 25 and make a donation. 328 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,800 The Anselm Society is a place where you can come in and 329 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,480 experience that beauty, joyful celebration, and ancient wisdom 330 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,600 and go out renewed, bringing that life to your vocation, 331 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,440 home, and church. Learn more at anselmsociety.org 332 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,440 and join us next time as we pursue a renaissance of the 333 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,920 Christian imagination together.