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Welcome to the Imagination 
Redeemed podcast where we follow

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the great stories further up and
further in In Pursuit of the 

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Life of Christ. 
Hello everyone, welcome to the 

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Imagination Redeem podcast. 
We hope you all had a very Merry

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Christmas and in lieu of a full 
podcast episode, I'm here today 

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with Brian Brown to read and 
have a short reflection on WH 

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Auden's poem for the time being,
a Christmas Oratorio originally 

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published in 1944. 
We will be reading a short 

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selection from this long poem. 
The poem in its full length are 

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various monologues from 
different viewpoints around 

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Christmas time. 
This one specifically that we 

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will be reading is for after 
Christmas, around New Year's. 

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So with that short introduction,
Brian, would you do us the 

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honors of of reading said 
selection? 

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Sarah, I would be delighted. 
Well, so that is that. 

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Now we must dismantle the tree, 
putting the decorations back 

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into their cardboard boxes, some
have got broken and carrying 

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them up to the attic. 
The holly and the mistletoe must

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be taken down and burnt and the 
children got ready for school. 

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There are enough leftovers to 
do. 

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Warmed up for the rest of the 
week. 

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Not that we have much appetite, 
having drunk such a lot, stayed 

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up so late, attempted quite 
unsuccessfully to love all of 

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our relatives, and in general 
grossly overestimated our 

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powers. 
Once again, as in previous 

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years, we have seen the actual 
vision and failed to do more 

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than entertain it as an 
agreeable possibility. 

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Once again we have sent him 
away, begging though to remain 

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his disobedient servant, the 
promising child who cannot keep 

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his word for long. 
The Christmas feast is already a

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fading memory, and already the 
mind begins to be vaguely aware 

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of an unpleasant whiff of 
apprehension at the thought of 

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Lent and Good Friday, which 
cannot, after all, now be very 

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far off. 
But for the time being, here we 

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all are, back in the moderate 
Aristotelian city of Darning and

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the 8:15 where Euclid's geometry
and Newton's mechanics would 

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account for our experience. 
And the kitchen table exists 

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because I scrub it. 
It seems to have shrunk during 

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the holidays. 
The streets are much narrower 

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than we remembered. 
We had forgotten. 

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The office was as depressing as 
this. 

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To those who have seen the 
child, however dimly, however 

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incredulously, the time being 
is, in a sense, the most trying 

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time of all. 
For the innocent children who 

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whispered so excitedly outside 
the locked door where they knew 

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the presents to be, grew up when
it opened. 

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Now recollecting that moment we 
can repress the joy, but the 

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guilt remains conscious. 
Remembering the stable where for

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once in our lives everything 
became a you and nothing was in 

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it, and craving the sensation 
but ignoring the 'cause we look 

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round for something no matter 
what to inhibit our self 

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reflection, and the obvious 
thing for that purpose would be 

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some great suffering. 
So once we have met the Son, we 

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are tempted ever after to pray 
to the Father, Lead us into 

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temptation and evil for our 
sake. 

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They will come all right, don't 
worry. 

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Probably in a form that we do 
not expect, and certainly with a

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force more dreadful than we can 
imagine. 

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In the meantime there are bills 
to be paid, machines to keep and

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repair, irregular verbs to 
learn, the time being to redeem 

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from insignificance. 
The happy morning is over, the 

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night of agony still to come. 
The time is noon when the Spirit

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must practice his scales of 
rejoicing without even a hostile

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audience, and the soul endure a 
silence that is neither for nor 

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against her faith that God's 
will be done, that in spite of 

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her prayers God will cheat no 
one, not even the world of its 

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triumph. 
Thank you, Brian. 

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The time is noon. 
What a beautiful poem. 

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I love I I haven't actually read
much WH Auden until of late, And

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there's something about the 
driving energy of his voice as a

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poet and the herky jerky nature 
of it, as well as he slices 

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together with image associations
very concrete things that I know

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well, like Christmas ornaments 
and boxes going to the attic, 

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and these deep theological and 
philosophical concepts just, 

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yeah, butting up and hitting 
each other with commas. 

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Yeah, it it, it really it, it, 
it kind of enacts as a poem so 

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much of how you feel after 
Christmas. 

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Because on the one hand there's 
that frenetic energy and on the 

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other hand, this sort of let 
down and everything grinding to 

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a halt. 
But knowing it's going to Rev up

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again into the hecticness of 
normalcy. 

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And behind it all, a whole bunch
of thoughts that you, you're not

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sure you want to have, you're 
not sure you want to get into, 

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you're not sure you want to give
space to. 

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And in your mind and the poem 
won't let you give space to 

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them. 
You'd have to stop reading the 

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poem and process that amazing 
thing he just said, or that 

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poignant thing or that difficult
thing. 

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That's so good and so true. 
It's maybe this is so cliche to 

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save a poem, but it is truly an 
experience and it truly is a 

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headspace that he gets you into 
that I have just kind of fallen 

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in love with this poem, 
especially this particular year.

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One thing that I also think is 
really beautiful about this 

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poem, and we'll read it one last
time on our way out, is the way 

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in which I've noticed how Auden 
is lacing or interlacing into 

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this poem the Lord's Prayer. 
And I think that there is 

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something really beautiful about
the the humdrum nature of the 

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Lord's Prayer, if I may be so 
bold to say. 

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The Lord didn't give us this 
esoteric, really intense and 

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beautiful soliloquy that we have
to perform in a particular way 

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in order to speak to the God of 
the universe. 

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It's very concrete and it's 
asking for very specific things.

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And yet that intermingling of 
earthly normal with heavenly 

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participation and heavenly 
encounter in prayer is something

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that we often feel uncomfortable
with and is the point of 

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incarnation. 
And it is what we're grappling 

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with after Christmas. 
While we're in Christmas tide. 

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We've gone through the sacred 
day that just didn't feel too 

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sacred, or didn't feel quite the
way it should have, and we have 

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to jump back into our Kronos 
time of next thing, next thing, 

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next thing. 
I love the the the line. 

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There are bills to be paid, 
machines to keep and repair, 

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irregular verbs to learn the 
time being to redeem from 

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insignificance, which I guess is
a few lines, but it's that 

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grappling. 
And yet it's in that lie, in 

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those lines that he's also 
dealing with the Lord's Prayer, 

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which I think is, I don't know, 
I'm saying a lot and maybe not 

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saying anything, but it's so 
good. 

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There's, there's, I don't know, 
there's some. 

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I think you're saying a lot 
because sometimes the best thing

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you can say to a great piece of 
art is guys, look at this. 

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Just just point to it. 
He's already done the work. 

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Yeah, well, and if, if you know 
listeners, if you guys do want 

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to delve deeper into Auden as a,
as a thinker, I can't recommend 

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highly enough Corey Lotta's 
book, which I'm actually drawing

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a blank on the name at the 
moment, but our, our friend 

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Corey has, has written a great 
book on a theology of time in, 

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in the thought of Lewis and 
Auden. 

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And so actually, and some of the
some of the philosophical ideas 

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that ended up in there in this 
poem, but they're also in a lot 

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of the work of of CS Lewis and 
how we understand what we do in 

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time as eternal beings. 
So if you want to get 

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philosophical in a manageable 
kind of way, it's a great book. 

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It is called when the eternal 
can be met. 

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Thank you. 
But the very long subtitle I 

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will not read. 
Yes. 

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Well, Brian, thank you so much 
for diving into this poem that 

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we've only scratched the surface
of. 

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Are there any things that we 
want to let our listeners know 

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about before we close out the 
year? 

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And then once we do that, I 
would love it for you to take us

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out with the poem one last time.
Sure. 

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Yeah. 
So just a few days left in the 

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year. 
If this podcast has meant 

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something to you this year, we 
would be incredibly grateful if 

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you'd go to anselmsociety.org 
and make an end of your gift, 

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because it's only because of 
your gifts that this is 

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possible. 
So we're, we've been pretty 

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blown away by the number of you 
who have followed us this year, 

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the number of you have told us 
that we turned up as your number

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one podcast in your Spotify 
raps. 

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We grew 400% this year listener 
wise, it's been, it's been quite

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a year and a lot of you are are 
now giving to support the show 

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and we really, really appreciate
that. 

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So if you haven't yet, we would 
love it if you would join those 

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numbers at anselmsociety.org. 
Also, there are enough topics 

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that we talked about on the show
a lot that we felt deserved 

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their own extended treatment, 
particularly on a, on a, on a 

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foundational level, that I have 
finally caved to the inevitable.

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And I am starting in mid January
teaching a six week online 

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course on the Christian 
imagination. 

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It's kind of the my best attempt
at the foundations of everything

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drawing from a whole bunch of 
these ancient sources. 

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I've been teaching this course 
for in a face to face context 

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for as a multi day experience 
for years, but I haven't been 

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able to adapt it into something 
that you guys online could 

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experience until now. 
So tickets are available again 

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on anselmsociety.org for that 
and they are going insanely 

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fast. 
So jump in there if you want to 

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join us for that. 
OK, let's listen to somebody 

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much more interesting than me 
one more time. 

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Here we go again. 
This is for the time being, a 

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Christmas oratorio, which I'm 
just now processing fully, is 

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written at the height of World 
War 2. 

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Well, so that is that. 
Now we must dismantle the tree, 

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putting the decorations back 
into their cardboard boxes, some

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have got broken and carrying 
them up to the attic. 

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The holly and the mistletoe must
be taken down and burnt and the 

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children got ready for school. 
There are enough leftovers to 

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00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,400
do. 
Warmed up for the rest of the 

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00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,360
week. 
Not that we have much appetite 

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having drunk such a lot, stayed 
up so late, attempted quite 

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unsuccessfully to love all of 
our relatives and in general 

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grossly overestimated our 
powers. 

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00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,120
Once again, as in previous 
years, we have seen the actual 

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00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,880
vision and failed to do more 
than entertain it as an 

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00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,280
agreeable possibility. 
Once again we have sent him 

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away, begging though to remain 
his disobedient servant, the 

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promising child who cannot keep 
his word for long. 

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The Christmas feast is already a
fading memory, and already the 

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mind begins to be vaguely aware 
of an unpleasant whiff of 

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00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,600
apprehension at the thought of 
Lent and Good Friday, which 

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00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,840
cannot, after all, now be very 
far off. 

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00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,480
But for the time being, here we 
all are, back in the moderate 

195
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,960
Aristotelian city of Darning and
the 8:15 where Euclid's geometry

196
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,520
and Newton's mechanics would 
account for our experience. 

197
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,320
And the kitchen table exists 
because I scrub it. 

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00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,120
It seems to have shrunk during 
the holidays. 

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00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,720
The streets are much narrower 
than we remembered. 

200
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,320
We had forgotten the office was 
as depressing as this. 

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To those who have seen the 
child, however dimly, however 

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incredulously, the time being 
is, in a sense, the most trying 

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00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,160
time of all. 
For the innocent children who 

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whispered so excitedly outside 
the locked door where they knew 

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the presents to be, grew up when
it opened. 

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00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,760
Now recollecting that moment we 
can repress the joy, but the 

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00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,920
guilt remains conscious. 
Remembering the stable where for

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00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,840
once in our lives everything 
became a you and nothing was in 

209
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:47,280
it, and craving the sensation 
but ignoring the 'cause we look 

210
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,320
round for something no matter 
what to inhibit our self 

211
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,400
reflection, and the obvious 
thing for that purpose would be 

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00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,000
some great suffering. 
So once we have met the Son, we 

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00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,440
are tempted ever after to pray 
to the Father, lead us into 

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00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,680
temptation and evil for our 
sake. 

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00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,360
They will come all right, don't 
worry. 

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00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,200
Probably in a form that we do 
not expect, and certainly with a

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00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,240
force more dreadful than we can 
imagine. 

218
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,800
In the meantime there are bills 
to be paid, machines to keep and

219
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:23,880
repair, irregular verbs to 
learn, the time being to redeem 

220
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,280
from insignificance. 
The happy morning is over, the 

221
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,600
night of agony still to come. 
The time is noon when the Spirit

222
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,120
must practice His scales of 
rejoicing without even a hostile

223
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:43,240
audience, and the soul endure a 
silence that is neither for nor 

224
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,800
against her faith that God's 
will will be done, that in spite

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of her prayers, God will cheat 
no one, not even the world of 

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its triumph. 
The Imagination Redeemed podcast

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is a production of the Anselm 
Society. 

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It's easy to see this world as 
disenchanted and to give up hope

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that there's more. 
But you were made to see the 

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world with the eyes of heaven 
and to live a bountiful life 

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that participates in the life of
God like in the great stories. 

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To help make this show possible,
go to anselmsociety.org/podcast 

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25 and make a donation. 
The Anselm Society is a place 

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where you can come in and 
experience that beauty, joyful 

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celebration, and ancient wisdom 
and go out renewed, bringing 

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that life to your vocation, 
home, and church. 

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Learn more at anselmsociety.org 
and join us next time as we 

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pursue a renaissance of the 
Christian imagination together.