Hey, friend, Welcome to another episode of the KPC Podcast, and
we hope that this finds you enjoying your week this summer
week. Whether you're listening on
Monday, that would be ambitious because we're just recording
this on Monday. So if you're listening on
Monday, like, well done. Very likely later on in your
week, which we realize is a wonderful thing.
So I've got Elena with me and a welcome back.
This is like Round 2 for you. Yeah.
Great. Yeah, thanks coming back.
This is really fun, glad to do it again.
So we're going to jump into a conversation on Luke, chapter 8,
three verses only. It was 19/20/21, which is
Jesus's redefining of what family looks like inside the
Kingdom. And it's a really pared down
version in Luke of other accounts, like Mark has this
account. It's a lot longer in Luke.
It's just really small. So I'm going to read it and then
we've got some questions. We received a few questions from
folks in the congregation, which is great.
And so we're going to tackle some of those and then I think
have a few questions to hopefully help you continue to
have your own discussions around these these verses.
And I think in this sense that the challenge we were talking
about this ahead of recording, Elena, you mentioned like the
challenge to really wrestle with how this, you know, if you call
yourself a follower of Jesus and if you're trying to live your
life inside of community, how it challenges you kind of
regardless of what your relationship to family has been,
whether it's good or bad, whether it's fraught with
conflict or whether it's full of love and joy for most people,
somewhere in between it. This really challenges, I think
many of us in our understanding of what family is, what it is
inside the Kingdom and how we're to act toward one another.
Like it changes our relationships inside the church.
And so all that we're going to get into all of it.
Let me read the passage 1st and and then we can jump in.
So I preached from the NIV. I'm going to read from the ESV.
And so there's a few words that are different.
Probably don't need to touch on that, but this is what it sounds
like in the ESV. So then his mother and his
brothers came to him, but they could not reach him because of
the crowd. And he was told Your mother and
brothers are standing outside desiring to see you.
But he answered them. My mother and my brothers are
those who hear the word of God and do it.
Yeah, great. So we are going to write jump
right in with a question we received on e-mail.
So thank you so much for everyone continuing to send in
those questions to us. This person said that you used
that bonded set analogy in the sermon, especially in the
context of golf, and you touched on it.
But can you expand on the church community?
We Christians are often accused of setting up what is similar to
this bonded set. You are now in the club and
there are expectations. How can we overcome that
perception that there is this checklist of things that we have
to take off in order to be in? And also how can we walk
alongside friends who might consciously or unconsciously set
up those boundaries or those checklists?
So can you expand on that a bit? Yeah, couple questions for us to
discuss within the one within the one question, right.
I, I love that somebody's wrestling this out because I
think that and I like, I wasn't hard on churches so much in the
in the sermon, like directly. Yeah, but I think it's really
easy for people to see that churches can fall into that
bounded set mentality of like group organization.
And you know, I gave the I gave the caveat like the disclaimer,
I'm like, I'm not a mathematician.
I realize like, you know, this is there's some math involved
here on, you know, at, at at like a theory level with these,
these terms, but just very simply for those people who
might be listening who or watching who don't, who didn't
see the sermon or don't understand.
So, so bounded set is a way of talking about groups that
organize together. So this is within mathematics
and like set theory, we're not going to get into that.
It's also used by sociologists to talk about how groups of
people organize together, and that's sort of what I lean into
more. Feels more like our domain as as
a church. So if you picture a box and for
those of you who are listening, I'm drawing a box with my hands
here. But like picture a box and it's
very clear if you are a member of the community, you're inside
the box. And if you're not a member of
the community, you're outside the box.
And the box is very clear. Like it's, it's bold, like bold
lines, clear delineation, very clear expectations on what gets
you membership within and what excludes you from membership on
the outside. So you can start to think like
churches fall into this, this way of organizing.
Yeah, somewhat, maybe somewhat naturally in some sense.
But like, I think it's problematic that we do where
it's perceived that there are insiders and outsiders and it's
very clear who those insiders and outsiders are.
So one of the criticisms that I received early on in my
ministry. And so like, this was my first
church. I had somebody invite me out for
lunch and like, I won't, you know, absolutely would would
never share the name of this person, right?
But like had somebody invite me out for lunch and sit me down
and explain to me why I needed to be wearing a suit and tie,
OK. And preaching.
So, you know, like this was very important to this person that I
dress a certain way and look a certain way when I preach.
And I understand that there are some people who still like
probably in our own congregation would, would lean in that
direction, right? But it gave me an opportunity to
say this person listen, like what you might see as haphazard,
like I do very intentionally. So I wear jeans or like
whatever, like khaki pants, whatever I'm wearing.
But like, I don't wear a suit, like, right, I don't wear a
suit. I don't wear a collar.
Like some many clergy wear collars.
I don't do that on a Sunday. And I don't do it for a very
specific reason. And the reason is that I want
anybody to be able to walk in and see from the start that goes
on the plaque, those people on the platform who are leading
look like me. Yeah.
Like there's an immediate ability to to identify with
those of us who are leading. Yeah.
And so I want somebody to walk in and feel like, oh, this is a
place that I can belong before I believe.
And that is like the main idea, I think, that pushes us away
from being a bounded set. So bounded set would be you need
to believe the same thing as us and prove it or demonstrate it
before you can belong. It's a qualifier for belonging
that you believe the certain theological doctrines.
You have the same language, you dress and look, maybe dress and
look a certain way as part of it.
But those things become the qualifiers for membership, like
for belonging, for being a part of the community.
Hmm. And what we want to say is no,
none of it is. You can belong here before you
believe the certain things, like believe the same things we
believe before you, even before you behave certain ways, right,
Which is some language that that's not my language, like
there's a language that other churches use as well, but that
your, your belief can change. We understand that and can
shift. And it doesn't need to be
exactly what we believe before you can belong.
And neither do you need to, you know, behave certain ways before
you can belong. You can show up.
So I, you know, I want someone to walk in the door to the
church because they feel like that's the place they need to be
and they don't immediately feel like they're faced with, oh, I
don't fit in here. I don't belong because of what
they are wearing or because of the baggage that they're
carrying in because of any number of different reasons,
right? So I think the bounded set, like
we can look like a bounded set in some ways, right?
We have expectations on members. Like, I expect that people who
are in like if you are in, if you call yourself a Christian,
if you've, you know, made a public profession of faith, if
you've joined as a member officially, if you've been
baptized, like there are expectations on our community to
live a certain way, but they're not barriers to entry into the
community. And I think that's the that's
the distinction between the two. So we're what I would like to
call us would be centre set, which is that we're all, we're
all facing Jesus. We're moving in that direction.
You know, we're going to be at different distances from the
centre. Yeah.
But what's more important to me is that your heart and your
intention is directed toward Jesus.
You're moving in that in that direction and that matters more
than what you wear on a Sunday or what you're able to prove to
me that you believe what what scripture you've memorized.
Like memorizing Scripture is a great thing to do, but none of
that will be like, hey, like we got to check your like Jesus
card at the door before you can enter into who we are and what
we do and how we worship. No, like we want, we want you
here. Yeah.
And you can belong. So the difference is, is it a
barrier to entry or not? Yeah, That's what I think the
major difference is. And then once you're in, I go,
yeah, expectations. Like I have expectations on our
on our people. Yeah, I expect, and I'm going to
give this plug because you won't.
But like kids, men, I expect like when we baptize baby,
right. So I had to I had this
conversation with somebody this weekend and this this individual
was saying like, hey, like if you, if you, if you stand up
there as part of the church and promise to help raise this kid,
like shouldn't you also be volunteering in Sunday school?
And like, yes, absolutely. So like here's this guy who's
like, you know, he's like their family, they're all in and
volunteering and love it. I'm not also not going to share
the name of this person, but like this was this was the his,
his point was like, you know, we as a congregation, we make
commitments to our kids to help raise them.
They should be teaching Sunday school.
Like they should be volunteering.
And also I'll give that plug because your kids been director
and you're always looking for more volunteers, people who are
going to be invested and buy into our culture and how we are
here, how we are with the kids. Like, you know, we're going to
ask certain things out of you if you're volunteering.
There are expectations, but it's not like it's it's not a barrier
to entry into the community. Same with tithing.
Like, you know, I think I say when when we talk about our
tithes and offerings, it I do expect that like it's it is
biblical to talk about and have an expectation around tithe and
not like tithes and offering. Yeah, but it's not like a
Netflix subscription that buys you privilege.
And again, there's another difference.
So is it a barrier to entry or not?
Are people excluded because they do certain things or not?
Like that would be bounded set. And does it buy you privilege
again? So now we're talking more
bounded set. So, you know, we go through
lengths here so that almost nobody knows what anybody gives.
Like that's very important. And so like, I like me as lead
pastor, I don't know what individuals give.
And and that's like, I will never know.
Like that's not, it's something I'm very like very adamant
about. And we're very, very like,
there's very specific policies that we follow for our
denomination around all of this. So so that it's not like, well,
that person gives X number of dollars, we better make sure
they're happy. Yeah.
Otherwise they might leave and then we might lose their money,
right. Like that's the kind of dark
hole that it goes down. But again, tithing is it's an
expectation that you are financially invested in this
thing, but it doesn't buy you privilege.
It doesn't get you an extra vote.
And what matters is the heart posture that you take as you do
it. Again, like their scripture all
through this, but like cents, dollars, hundreds of dollars,
thousands of dollars, Like what matters is that you're convicted
by God to do this thing and to respond because God asks it of
you. It doesn't buy you any
privilege. So yeah, barrier of entry,
that's a good way to talk about it.
Privilege also a good way to talk about it.
And that's where you can start picking apart the difference
between what would be bounded set.
Is this excluding inside or outside our language or is it
centre set? Is it about right and good
expectations of how we are to live together?
Because again, they get the gospel ought to convict us to
live differently. So we live differently and that
requires doing things. But it's not going to get you
entry. It's not going to get you
privileged. It's not going to get you like
extra time with like a pastor or whatever.
Yeah. It's just that's not how we
roll. So I think that's some of my
language around answering that question and distinguishing
between the. Two, yeah.
And I think you did a good job on Sunday when you were
explaining how in the culture that Jesus was in, it was almost
like those hard lines around entry because it was lineage.
If you were a descendant of this tribe, Abraham, you know, you
could trace your lineage. You were very clearly in this
family or outside of this family.
And there was really not, yeah, that kind of cross crossing over
in or out. And Jesus then comes and with
the statement he, he does break down that barrier to entry that
was purely blood and family. But then with that, he opens it
up. He opens up that that idea of
anyone can come in. But he also issues a challenge
there because there is like you saying, there is that
expectation it is those who hear God's word and puts it into
practice. And we might even tie that back
a bit to the parable of the sower, which we looked at a
while ago, where it is not just hearing, but it is it taking
root inside of you and it producing something.
So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more around
that idea of why is it hard sometimes to to hear and do and
how those two things have to go together?
Sure. So this is great and I
appreciate that you took us back to the sewer because that like
this really in some way is the conclusion to that.
Like I didn't call it that in the sermon, but I think there
was 1 iteration of my sermon. There was an early draft where I
had, you know, essentially set it up as like this.
It's a three-part series miniseries that we did really on
the same idea, which is the parable of the Sower.
And it starts in, in eight, 1:00-ish.
But I think 4 is when we're really into the, the actual
parable. But from the beginning of
chapter 8, we've got the parable of the sower and then Jesus
teaching about parables, the purpose of, of them.
And then we had the, the lamp under a jar.
Like nobody lights a lamp and then hides it away.
So again, like that's the language developing the language
of the parable in many ways. And then we've got the Jesus
mother and brothers. So it's it's really 3 moves that
Luke is making and wants us as readers to see all connected
together. That it is about like Jesus is
making three times in a row this same point that what matters is
your heart posture that you are receptive and wonder and
question and think and contemplate hope for all of
those things like that you essentially that you are
remaining open enough to what Jesus is speaking so that it
lands and in the gardening language it takes root right in
the lamp language. You're not hiding it and in this
language of of Jesus mother and brothers you, you're hearing it
and doing it. I think what is pushed a little
bit forward in this final section is so when I look at
those 3 movements, I see in the parable of the sower, Jesus
talks about us hearing the word and and receiving it in a way
that transforms us. And really so at the end it
says, you know, As for that, that is As for the seed in the
good soil, there are those who hearing the word, the word, hold
it fast in an honest and good heart and bear fruit with
patience. So it's this idea of allowing
the word of God and we can talk different ways about that.
Jesus here, I think, is talking both about his own teaching and
himself as the word of God. So in John One, that's how Jesus
is himself described. So it really in receiving, in
receiving the teaching of the Kingdom and in receiving the
Kingdom, ultimately what we're talking about is receiving
Jesus. Yeah.
So you can't receive the teaching of Jesus without also
receiving Jesus. You can't live into the Kingdom
of Jesus without accepting who he is.
Like all of like it is synonymous.
Jesus is the Kingdom come and he is his teachings embodied.
So I think it's about allowing the teaching of Jesus, the
Kingdom who he is to, to hold fast to take root in your life
in a way that starts to transform it.
And then in in the lamp under a jar, he goes and immediately
says, take care. Then how you hear.
So again, he's he's, he's pushing forward this idea that
how you hear, how you listen, how you are intentional about
about doing that matters. And it it becomes important to
not, you know, light a lamp and then just stifle it, like put it
under like it needs the right environment to to remain lit,
but it also requires intentionality there.
Like you, you are intentional about lighting a lamp and
putting it where it is to be seen and useful and helpful.
It actually does something. And in the same way, he says,
hey, like, listen, like this isn't just for you, right?
You're not, you're not a lamp lit just for your own sake.
It's not just so you can look good, Like, hey, look at
everybody looking at me. It is to do something like
there's a purpose to it. And then here in the mother and
brothers, what what he says is. At the end of the day, like,
yeah, yeah, the most privileged relationship that you could
think of in that day. In many ways, he now alters to
say this is how important hearing and doing inside of the
Kingdom is. Like it represents being mother
and brother, like it represents being family.
So, so like it's almost like Jesus saying, I get this through
your head. There's nothing more important
than this because there's, there's no, there's no familial
bond, there's no lineage, There's no, you know, piece of
who you are that that really defines who you are greater than
your relationship to Jesus. So I think that's the piece.
It's a, it's a flip on, on identity in some ways and on
understanding who we are and what's most important about us.
So the the piece of hope that I hope that I hope that I really
wanted people to hear in it as well, is that Jesus is taking,
and you alluded to this, Jesus is taking something very
specific and almost impossible to breakdown or break into.
Like you're not changing your family of origin.
You're not changing your lineage.
Like that's not, we don't do that.
Like it's like it just is what it is.
And Jesus is saying like, alright, like we're not going to
think about membership into family inside the community,
inside the the Kingdom of God as that strict and limiting.
It's actually that's blown open to anybody and everybody who
hears the word and then acts on it.
So I think my mind can go to like it is like it's another
thing to do or it's A to do list or it's a checklist or it's how
do I know I'm doing good enough? Is there, do I have to pass a
test? Like how do I prove that I know
it? What does doing it actually look
like? Do I have to do it all the time?
Like what if I forget and like, what if I fail?
What if I fall like all of those things and when really it's
intended to be this hope filled realization of oh anybody.
This is open to anybody now amazing.
It doesn't matter what your lineage is.
In other words, it doesn't matter what your history is, no
matter what your past is like this is for everybody.
And that in my mind I go, OK, so that that's just grace and
hopeful and, um, blown wide open as opposed to being really pared
down. The early church really wrestled
with us, right? Yeah.
So like I was flipping over to Galatians earlier just just
quickly because like the early church really wrestled with.
OK, so the Jesus Jesus called Jewish followers.
Now eventually what we see is the the churches is expanded and
includes Gentile believers. And then you get this conflict
be like the Jewish Christians are like no, you got to become
Jewish 1st and then become Christian.
And Paul's got to wrestle this out with some of his early
churches. And that's where we get that
great line where Paul's writing to this church in Galatia, who
would be a mixed group of like Jewish Christians, non Jewish
Christians, everybody trying to live life together.
And he he says now that faith has come, we are no longer under
a guardian for in Christ Jesus you are all he uses sons of God
through faith. But this is just this is
language of family. For as many of you as we're
baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is no, he says no longer Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor
free male, female, you're all one in Christ Jesus.
So he says a lot of the things that used to gain membership.
So here we're talking like in in other words, church.
These are categories of privilege and non privilege.
Yeah, right. These are categories that used
to buy, for lack of a better word, or gain you entry into a
community. So it's not about it's not about
your heritage or your Greek, doesn't matter.
What matters is that you've been baptized into Christ.
You put on Christ one of those would have been seen as
privileged, right? So the Jewish community of
Christians thought themselves privileged over the Gentile
community of Christians. Slave or free, same thing, male
or female. Like none of these things gain
you anything or lose you anything.
What matters is that you've been baptized into Christ and have
put on Christ in Paul's language.
So you've heard the Word and you've begun doing it.
Yeah. In other words.
Right. And again, this is like one of
the things that could have included in the sermon didn't
make it in. There's lots that always doesn't
make it in. Yeah, but Paul's not saying that
there's, you know, no longer things that that are distinct
about us. Yeah.
Like he's not saying destroy every category and, you know,
forget everything that once was. But he's saying that these these
these categories that at one point you thought gained you
something inside of a religious community no longer gain you
anything inside the religious community.
What matters is your your, your union with Christ.
What matters is that and in that language that you've put on
Christ, that you've heard the word in Jesus's language and
you're trying to do it. You're wrestling it out.
Yeah. And in that, in that
redefinition of family from Jesus, I think there's so much
like hope. I was just thinking, you know,
that this this would give hope to to the slave, to the Gentile,
to those who had been on the outside.
And even in our modern contacts, we think of those as we're
talking about family. Our families are so complicated.
There is so much brokenness. There are those who are
estranged from their biological families who have never known
that kind of intact close love in the family and Jesus, that's
such a for me is such a profound hope that he's he's opening this
up. He's saying you are now my
mother and my brother and you are one with me and you are part
of this family now and there's that that hope in that.
But then we can also see there how on the other side, there are
those of us who have been privileged to be what would
have, who would have been the free, who would have been the
Jew. And in our modern context, maybe
who are very comfortable with our our family of origin and who
see ourselves as secure. And there's maybe also that
challenge then, and how do we we fully live with one another in
this new spiritual family in a way that that Jesus is calling
us to. So yeah, I don't know if you had
any further thoughts on on that. Yeah, it's, it's hard, right?
You get, you get these moments where, you know, there there's
an individual who wants to bury his deceased parent and, and he
says let the dead bury the dead. So there's like an urgency to it
and a sense in which, yeah, we're called into a different
community. You don't want to dishonor,
right? Like you also you.
How do you honor your father and mother and also follow Jesus who
says leave? Yeah, leave your your family to
some degree, right. And follow me.
The early call to two of the fishermen.
They leave James and John, right?
They leave their fathers equity in the boat and they followed
Jesus. Like if I'm that dad and be
like, wait, what? Yeah, like maybe he's cheering
them on. Maybe it's like you guys go like
this is everything you wanted go.
We don't, we don't know, Like we don't get that.
But there is this seemingly there's this call repeated
throughout Scripture that it does mean leaving to some degree
your your family of origin. I think it is the challenge that
I see is to those who would, who would consider themselves
inside. And again, that's dangerous,
like kind of problematic language.
But if you consider yourself part of the church, I think the
burden is on us to choose to be family.
Yeah, for one another. Um, and I like that that
becomes, I think that that's where the, the burden lies.
The the burden doesn't lie on the one who is wrestling out
their own broken family and who's trying to enter into a
community of faith. The burden is on those of us who
are in again, inside, but who are those of us who are part of
the community to change, like, to live in such a way that it it
radically alters this individual's definition of
family. Yeah, know that I think that's
the the piece that I would want our people to hear for sure.
Like if you're part of our church have been a part of KPC
for a while, like I think the burdens on us.
Yeah. So I don't know if that answers
the question necessarily, but I, you know, I think back to when
we came like my family first, first arrived here and we had
moved like we moved from out of town.
We sold our house. We bought a house before we
bought a house. Like we were receiving emails
from multiple people with like the title, but like, you want to
be our neighbor? Like this house is popped up for
sale. And like we had people, we had
people watching like, you know, for houses that were popping up.
We have people. Yeah.
We had people calling and saying, hey, if you know, if you
need you come move in with us. Like live with us for a little
while until you until you find a place here.
And when we showed up, it was like, it was like there was this
community of people, not the whole like I'm not.
So our entire community was very welcoming, like our entire
church was very welcoming and embracing of us.
But there was like a small group of families who basically said
you're ours now. Yeah.
Like you're in, you're part of us.
You're one of us. You're gonna do some things like
you're going to come for a meal. We're gonna drop meals off.
We're going to come clean the house with you.
Once we bought a house, right? Like it was almost like there
were, there were, there were these people just intentionally
said we were. You're like, we're in your life
now because you're in our. Life.
And it was incredible, the gift that that was to us.
And I think some of the time we, we don't want to be like an
imposition. Yeah.
On people like. Well, like we'll let you get
settled and you tell us what you need.
You need what you need and and then you know, and we're here.
Yeah. And like the beauty of it for us
was like, we had people were just like, Nope, we're in,
we're, we're, we're at, like, we're here for you and showing
up. And that was a, a beautiful,
incredible thing for us. It was a gift to our family and
it changed the way we landed here like it did.
And so I think that's the piece that I want people to really
wrestle with is like, yeah, embrace people and don't give
them the opportunity to, like, just sit forever on the outside
of things. I'm doing air quotes if you're
listening, right? Like it's again challenging
language. So that would be my, that would
be my challenge to like the every day member of the church,
churchgoer, like choose to be that person who just shows up
like, Yep, yeah, you're, you're, you're you're asked now.
Yeah, this is this is what that means.
And you're going to come for lunch and, you know, whatever
that, whatever that can look like, I think, yeah, bonuses on
us. And we need to be the ones to
embrace. I think that's the direction.
Yeah, and even just using that language, I think maybe it's a
Christian cliche calling each other brothers and sisters in
Christ. But you know, it really does
change. I think the way we look at each
other when we do start realizing this is not just my coworker or,
you know, someone I have a again, we use that a language
sometimes a transactional relationship with, but this is
this is family God. That is what Jesus calls us now.
We are part of one another and we are to care for each other
the way we would care for our own flesh and blood families.
Yeah. And it doesn't mean it's going
to be perfect. Yeah, the church is not a
perfect family. And I think that's the other
thing that we need to realize is it it doesn't just because you
call somebody family doesn't mean that OHS suddenly
everything's happy and wonderful all the time.
What it means is that you don't have a choice.
Yeah, to love this person. Yes, they're in it for the long
haul. Exactly.
Yeah. Exactly.
And, and you can you can like one another to varying degrees.
You can enter in and out of conflict like there's Show me a
family without conflict and I'll show you somebody who's
wrestling with seeing things accurately or lying.
Yeah, about the way things actually are, having a hard time
processing stuff, whatever. But like, every single family
has conflict in it. And what?
What the the difference is that, you know, so when I think about
like, think, think about your family of origin growing up or
think about your family now, like you have conflict.
They're still your family at the end of the day.
And when that conflict is done, they're still your family.
Yeah. And there's no getting around
that. So that's the piece for us as a
church is like, it shapes everything.
It's not that. It's not that there won't be
conflict. There will absolutely be
conflict. What what changes is, oh, these
are still the people I'm called love and serve and yeah, live
life with after the conflict is done.
Yeah, so let's do conflict differently.
Yeah. And that's, I think the piece,
right, is it's it defines our community differently and it
shapes our community differently.
And it like, yeah, it's no longer something that I believe
you can just walk away from. Yeah, that's the piece.
It's like this is choose to be here and choose the land and
choose to be in it through the conflict.
Yeah, that that's, those are the harder days for sure of
community, but I think that's the challenge to love well that
you're talking about is, is in the good days and the bad days.
Yeah. Yeah.
Definitely. So I think that's where we're
gonna land. Yeah, for today.
And we hope that this encourages you and challenges you.
Maybe if I can leave you with one lingering question, it might
be to think about how the language of family causes you to
initially react. Like does it make your like, it
doesn't make your anxiety, your eyes a little bit Or does it
settle you into something that is familiar, like familiar and
peaceful and loving, But what direction does it push you in?
And then in that to kind of think through what your
relationship to others inside of a community might might look
like if you thought about it more along the lines of family,
how you called the love somebody well inside of inside of the
church. And what's one thing you could
do to help somebody belong before they believe?
Yeah. So again, thanks for tuning in.
Only thanks for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me
again. Great.
And like Justin, I said last week, you're going to see
multiple hosts rolling throughout the remainder of the
summer vacation and preaching schedule, all of it taking into
account. But we hope that you enjoy our
episodes through the summer and that they help you have good
conversation throughout your week.