1 00:00:01,670 --> 00:00:04,160 Hey everyone, welcome to the Sunday. 2 00:00:04,170 --> 00:00:07,720 Sit down. And I don't have a cool pun for 3 00:00:07,790 --> 00:00:10,000 that this week because it is Tuesday. 4 00:00:10,010 --> 00:00:12,440 It's not Sunday, but we're talking about Sunday. 5 00:00:12,770 --> 00:00:19,140 We are here today with Lindsey Setsima, who was preaching this 6 00:00:19,150 --> 00:00:25,120 past this past Sunday through Luke Chapter 9, The story of the 7 00:00:25,130 --> 00:00:30,620 feeding of the multitude. And this is the job. 8 00:00:31,050 --> 00:00:34,090 Not the 5000, 5000. Not the 5000 which only counts 9 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:36,190 men. It was feeding the multitude. 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,650 I I might have given a little Boo to not not. 11 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:42,410 I called you out on your Boo. You didn't let me get to the 12 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:45,510 point where I was gonna be like, no, we're not gonna do that. 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:46,750 But. That's OK. 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,790 It was it was a visceral reaction to, you know, for those 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,480 who weren't in there on Sunday. You know, Lindsey, you were 16 00:00:55,490 --> 00:01:00,860 talking about how the 5000 only included men and that with women 17 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:03,730 and children, it would have likely been double, triple, 18 00:01:03,740 --> 00:01:04,819 quadruple. Absolutely. 19 00:01:04,830 --> 00:01:08,170 Yeah. And And so and so I was just 20 00:01:08,180 --> 00:01:12,100 booing at the fact that patriarchal society. 21 00:01:12,430 --> 00:01:14,320 And how they count, How they count people being. 22 00:01:14,330 --> 00:01:17,040 There. But anyway, this is fun. 23 00:01:17,050 --> 00:01:20,400 You and I have never done this. Before No, I kind of just like, 24 00:01:20,410 --> 00:01:21,900 Oh my gosh, where is this gonna go? 25 00:01:22,610 --> 00:01:27,800 So for those who don't know, this is my wife and we have 26 00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:30,600 never I've, I've never interviewed her for her before. 27 00:01:30,610 --> 00:01:32,840 We've never done a podcast together. 28 00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:35,670 We talked about doing it at one point and then it which has 29 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,680 never. Happened, it just never had a 30 00:01:36,690 --> 00:01:39,390 kid. Yeah, life and life and stuff, 31 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,660 all that stuff. Yeah, But here we are several 32 00:01:42,670 --> 00:01:45,220 years later. Trying it out, trying it out for 33 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:46,610 court. Right, we'll see how it goes. 34 00:01:46,620 --> 00:01:50,380 We'll see how it goes. So anyway, we are here to have a 35 00:01:50,390 --> 00:01:57,680 conversation about this passage. And I was really, I was really 36 00:01:57,690 --> 00:02:00,470 encouraged by a, a few conversations I had with people 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,190 after the service and just the way that they were reflecting on 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,250 this. And I think that what I want to 39 00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:10,220 do today is, is get a little bit more specific and in some of the 40 00:02:10,229 --> 00:02:13,210 ways in which we struggle. So I'll, I'll, I want to read 41 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:16,490 the passage and then I want to highlight those, those 5 words 42 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:20,830 that you mentioned as being sort of kind of the pillars of this, 43 00:02:21,060 --> 00:02:24,100 of this passage. So great. 44 00:02:24,250 --> 00:02:26,380 I'm gonna read here and then we'll get into it. 45 00:02:26,390 --> 00:02:33,490 So this is starting adverse 10 of Luke Chapter 9 says when the 46 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:36,550 apostles returned they reported to Jesus what they had done. 47 00:02:37,060 --> 00:02:41,850 Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a 48 00:02:41,860 --> 00:02:45,950 town called Bethsaida. But the crowds learned about it 49 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,190 and followed him. He welcomed them and spoke to 50 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,390 them about the Kingdom of God and healing those who needed 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,630 healing. Late in the afternoon the 12 52 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,970 came to him and said send the crowd away so that so they can 53 00:02:59,980 --> 00:03:02,610 go to the surrounding colleges and countryside and find food 54 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:06,180 and lodging because we are in a remote place here. 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,170 He replied, you give them something to eat. 56 00:03:09,580 --> 00:03:14,070 They answered we have only 5 loaves of bread and two fish 57 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,770 unless we go and buy food for all this crowd. 58 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:22,750 About 5000 men were there but he said to the disciples have them 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,410 sit down in groups of about 50 each. 60 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,410 The disciples did so, and everyone sat down, taking the 61 00:03:28,420 --> 00:03:31,050 five loaves and two fish and looking up from heaven. 62 00:03:31,140 --> 00:03:35,070 He gave thanks and broke them. Then he gave them and the 63 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,910 disciples to distribute to the people. 64 00:03:39,460 --> 00:03:43,780 They all ate and were satisfied and the disciples picked up 12 65 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:48,440 basketfuls of broken pieces that were all that were leftover. 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,930 So there are 5 words that you highlighted. 67 00:03:52,940 --> 00:03:57,950 Welcome. Give everyone satisfied and 68 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,170 broken. I loved the way that you, I'm a 69 00:04:02,180 --> 00:04:06,300 little biased, but but I love the way that you structured 70 00:04:06,310 --> 00:04:07,250 that. It was a little different. 71 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:08,830 Than yeah. Done. 72 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,630 It's not typically by preaching style. 73 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,310 So I typically go more kind of thematically or group big things 74 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,890 together. But I think when I was reading 75 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:21,950 that passage, I could not get those words out of my head as I 76 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:23,810 was I was looking at them. And I'd like to think that was 77 00:04:23,820 --> 00:04:27,310 the spirit probably like maybe we should go in a little bit of 78 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,320 a different direction than maybe what you would typically have 79 00:04:29,330 --> 00:04:31,370 done. So, and it and it really worked. 80 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:35,260 I loved the way that it sort of just illuminated these, these 81 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:39,280 different parts of the passage and gave them a lot of life. 82 00:04:39,290 --> 00:04:42,050 And so we're going to kind of centre, we might not touch on 83 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,330 all of them like granularly, but we're going to touch on, on some 84 00:04:46,340 --> 00:04:51,110 of them more broadly. So the first thought, and this 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,580 is a broad question, these 5 words are such a great picture 86 00:04:56,590 --> 00:04:58,500 of the Kingdom as as you highlighted. 87 00:04:59,030 --> 00:05:00,800 And interconnected. I just want to add that in. 88 00:05:00,810 --> 00:05:05,380 Like, I don't think that it's possible that each one could 89 00:05:05,390 --> 00:05:08,680 also stand on its own. But what I really loved is that 90 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:11,820 I think they collectively form a picture of the Kingdom. 91 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:15,080 I don't think any one of them is really complete without the 92 00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:19,420 other. So you can't welcome without 93 00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:22,330 being having a spirit of giving and generosity. 94 00:05:22,340 --> 00:05:23,950 Exactly. And it's not giving and 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,270 generosity. It's not for everyone. 96 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:28,510 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like, well, like welcome 97 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,570 doesn't mean you welcome some. Welcome means you welcome 98 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:32,550 everyone. So you have to look at those two 99 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,150 together. Yeah. 100 00:05:34,190 --> 00:05:39,110 So when I think about the Kingdom and when I think about 101 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,490 the church and the way that the church should function and I 102 00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:46,010 want to like maybe as a brief aside, like separate like 103 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,090 Kingdom from the church. Kingdom is, is like the bigger, 104 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:52,810 broader overarching and the church, I often think of the 105 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:56,280 church as sort of the vessel by which the Kingdom is lived out. 106 00:05:56,530 --> 00:06:00,050 There's a guy, Reggie McNeil wrote a book many years ago that 107 00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:02,900 I'm failing to remember the name of, but he, he uses the metaphor 108 00:06:02,910 --> 00:06:07,200 of the church is an airport and the Kingdom is the destination. 109 00:06:07,210 --> 00:06:09,980 And I, and I always like that because it's like the airport is 110 00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:12,200 essential for travel. If you want to go to Italy, you 111 00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:16,980 got to go to the airport, right? And, and, and so the Church is 112 00:06:16,990 --> 00:06:21,270 the vehicle, the vessel for the Kingdom to live out the Kingdom, 113 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:24,360 to do the work of the Kingdom. Yeah, I mean, I think I, I 114 00:06:24,370 --> 00:06:26,810 appreciate the metaphor would say that I think the church is 115 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:29,810 also part of the Kingdom. Like it's not just the means to 116 00:06:29,820 --> 00:06:31,750 an end. The Church also exists with 117 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,670 within the. Kingdom, that's why I don't see 118 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,090 it as like just merely a means to an end. 119 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:40,070 You're right, but it is because it's it's a crucial component of 120 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:47,490 the Kingdom, but it is, it is the, IT is the launching pad to. 121 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:49,080 Do all. Of the work, right, it is. 122 00:06:49,090 --> 00:06:52,140 And cause it's a, it's a place where we naturally gather and we 123 00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:55,620 have to like work out this stuff in real time and real life, 124 00:06:55,630 --> 00:06:58,290 right? The Kingdom is the theoretical, 125 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:01,560 you know, until we have to actually do it with one another, 126 00:07:01,570 --> 00:07:03,480 with people. Sure, every everything is just 127 00:07:03,490 --> 00:07:07,380 an idea until it is actually lived out and it is meant to be 128 00:07:07,390 --> 00:07:10,420 lived out. And so I want to like think 129 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:17,470 about churches functioning in light of the Kingdom, in light 130 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,750 of these these 5 words of welcome. 131 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,410 Yeah. And and giving and involving 132 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:27,010 everyone and and being satisfied and and broken is an interesting 133 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:30,010 one. That it was the weirdest word to 134 00:07:30,020 --> 00:07:32,030 kind of throw in there because all of the rest of the words 135 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,210 have like, whether whether or not we live them out. 136 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:37,990 Well, all the other words give you warm, happy feelings. 137 00:07:38,050 --> 00:07:41,470 Yeah, broken does not typically give you. 138 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,920 That so like, I think it's worth like just taking a moment and 139 00:07:44,930 --> 00:07:49,150 actually spelling out, not literally, but talking through 140 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,290 how the church can can do some of this like great nuts and 141 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:57,320 bolts kind of stuff, right, Like and maybe even just like go 142 00:07:57,330 --> 00:07:59,270 through them quickly and think like, you know, rapid fire. 143 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,820 Let's talk through some ideas. How can we increase our Kingdom? 144 00:08:03,830 --> 00:08:08,940 Welcome for for people. Yeah, that's a question. 145 00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:10,700 It's like, OK, just throwing it out there. 146 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:12,120 How do we increase our our Kingdom? 147 00:08:12,130 --> 00:08:14,700 Welcome. I mean, I think welcome speaks 148 00:08:14,710 --> 00:08:20,010 to, like we talked about on Sunday, welcome isn't just about 149 00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:23,900 a hello or a greeting or a social courtesy. 150 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:28,060 The welcome here is about actually embracing people, being 151 00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:32,030 happy that they're there, letting them know that you 152 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:34,929 genuinely appreciate them and that you value them. 153 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,020 There was no test for the people to be available. 154 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:41,929 Like whoever wanted to come and see Jesus came and saw Jesus, 155 00:08:41,940 --> 00:08:44,570 and it says that Jesus welcomed all of them there. 156 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:46,950 Was the barrier of entry was. Yeah, the barrier of entry was 157 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,810 real low in this. Get there. 158 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:50,710 Come on. Yeah, yeah. 159 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,260 And I mean, the disciples, for whatever reason, or Jesus and 160 00:08:54,270 --> 00:08:58,110 the disciples, I should say, they were somehow in a place 161 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,740 that could, I mean, I don't think it's an amphitheater, but 162 00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:05,800 they were in a place where all of these people could also be, 163 00:09:05,850 --> 00:09:07,880 right? Like if they had really, I mean, 164 00:09:08,130 --> 00:09:10,060 if they really wanted to just meet by themselves, they could 165 00:09:10,070 --> 00:09:12,520 have met in an upper room and at home or something. 166 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:17,360 But they, they are gathering in a place that also is primed for 167 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:20,500 people to be there with them. I do think there's something 168 00:09:20,510 --> 00:09:22,400 about welcome here. Like the crowd obviously came to 169 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:24,410 Jesus. I think there is. 170 00:09:24,910 --> 00:09:27,280 And maybe this is where kind of the metaphor, the passage 171 00:09:27,290 --> 00:09:29,780 doesn't fail us, but it it doesn't show the complete 172 00:09:29,790 --> 00:09:33,480 picture is that I think welcome can also be going into spaces 173 00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:36,470 where people already are not necessarily people always coming 174 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,940 to you. That's the example that we we 175 00:09:37,950 --> 00:09:39,320 see here. But again, when you're talking 176 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:44,160 about 1520 thousand people, how else was this really supposed to 177 00:09:44,170 --> 00:09:45,550 look? Yeah, yeah. 178 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:47,260 So. But yeah, I think welcome, 179 00:09:47,270 --> 00:09:49,800 welcome is the warmth. Welcome is the invitation. 180 00:09:49,810 --> 00:09:57,460 Welcome is is I love that low barrier of entry of like, I mean 181 00:09:57,470 --> 00:09:59,540 when you think, I mean, it's kind of like the word that 182 00:09:59,550 --> 00:10:01,360 defines itself. Welcome means that everyone is 183 00:10:01,370 --> 00:10:04,920 welcome, but welcome means open. I I really meant that welcome 184 00:10:04,930 --> 00:10:10,040 means open arms like it's. Yeah, I often think it through 185 00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:13,840 as, as someone kind of from a staffing perspective responsible 186 00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:17,880 for our welcome process of church in some ways. 187 00:10:17,970 --> 00:10:21,320 I I'm often thinking through the gaps, you know, if, if someone, 188 00:10:21,390 --> 00:10:25,420 if someone comes and they are thought greeted, which is a form 189 00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:29,960 of welcome, obviously, and they're not treated hospitably 190 00:10:29,970 --> 00:10:31,780 and all, all of these different things, right. 191 00:10:31,790 --> 00:10:34,660 Like there's some real practical stuff there that I'm, you know, 192 00:10:34,670 --> 00:10:37,720 we're in the process of trying to really think through and 193 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:41,620 revamp in some ways. But but I think like you can get 194 00:10:41,630 --> 00:10:46,080 lost in all those details. And it can become coercive in 195 00:10:46,090 --> 00:10:48,290 some ways. Like there can be like, come up 196 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:50,780 and we'll give you a present and we'll bring you on stage and 197 00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:52,870 we'll clap for you. And it's like, it's I doing 198 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,710 wrong. I am sure that, that the places 199 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,340 and spaces that do that they, they do, I think they have a 200 00:10:58,350 --> 00:11:00,830 good heart behind it. Like I, I, I'm not questioning 201 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,320 that. But it's also, you know, we 202 00:11:03,330 --> 00:11:04,780 talked about meeting people where they're at. 203 00:11:04,790 --> 00:11:06,690 Like there's people where it's, it's some for people. 204 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:09,970 It's really hard to walk into a church or go into that gathering 205 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:13,090 or take that step and like, I'm going to be in a small group at 206 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:15,170 someone's house. Like that's really, really hard 207 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:17,960 for them. And I think welcome, you know, 208 00:11:17,970 --> 00:11:20,800 we talked about like meeting needs in this passage, obviously 209 00:11:20,810 --> 00:11:24,040 Jesus meeting the core food need that people had. 210 00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:26,800 But on a more broader context, meeting people needs is also 211 00:11:26,910 --> 00:11:29,760 meeting them and where they're at and welcoming where they're 212 00:11:29,770 --> 00:11:33,880 at and that being OK. And then they sometimes 213 00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:37,490 overwhelming people with five people around and, and ever 214 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,690 like, you know, we talked about giving people a cup of coffee 215 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:41,850 you don't want, you don't want like 8 people doing that. 216 00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:43,560 Because that's. Too much coffee? 217 00:11:43,610 --> 00:11:45,990 I'm an introvert that I like. If you did that to me, I'd be 218 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,730 like, Oh my gosh, I need to run away right now. 219 00:11:48,740 --> 00:11:50,770 Like this might be too much for me. 220 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:55,430 But I think just at a broader level, I think that there is 221 00:11:55,980 --> 00:12:00,250 there's there ought to be in in all churches and and in our 222 00:12:00,260 --> 00:12:03,950 church. This like just this willingness 223 00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:09,570 to go above and beyond in our, in our embrace of those who have 224 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:12,530 been around for many years, those who have returned after 225 00:12:12,540 --> 00:12:16,730 many years away, those who are brand new, right that that are, 226 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:21,180 are embrace and welcome of everyone as they come into our 227 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:22,760 space. And I like that idea of 228 00:12:22,770 --> 00:12:26,280 potentially that, you know, being extended to when we go out 229 00:12:26,290 --> 00:12:28,400 to other spaces. But, you know, obviously, 230 00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:31,640 practically speaking, we are often inviting people into our 231 00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:35,220 space, whether it is for a church service, whether it's for 232 00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:38,060 a community event, you know, like I think about the, the 233 00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:41,100 garden open house that we had a few weeks ago and, and wanting 234 00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:45,100 to make that a place that feels very welcoming and open. 235 00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:48,200 We offer free food. We offer, you know, I just think 236 00:12:48,210 --> 00:12:50,230 it's, it's. Yeah, Also say the one thing I 237 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,390 would add is a word that maybe not enough churches throw around 238 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,330 is like the concept of being accessible as well. 239 00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:58,160 And I mean that in in all of its forms. 240 00:12:58,170 --> 00:13:01,230 I mean that for people who have physical disabilities that need 241 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,490 a building to be accessible, people that have barriers to 242 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:07,240 listening or sitting in rows or learning in specific ways. 243 00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:10,950 Like I, I think that there's a lot of creative energy that 244 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,270 could be put into making spaces accessible for people and that 245 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,380 being part of our welcome so. Our kids ministry coordinator, 246 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,890 she's done a lot of great work and wanting me wanting to make 247 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:25,680 sure that our space is accessible for, for kids of 248 00:13:25,690 --> 00:13:29,170 varying needs and, you know, having, you know, headphones for 249 00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:31,390 kids with sensory challenges. Yeah. 250 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,270 Exactly. And we're working on other other 251 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,670 things that will make sure that kids that have other other needs 252 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:40,660 are able to enjoy and enter into Sunday school as well. 253 00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:42,850 Yeah, I would say like, no, no space is going to be perfect. 254 00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:44,470 And it's not about creating a perfect space. 255 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,620 It's it is about, I think that the being genuine about you're 256 00:13:48,630 --> 00:13:50,850 welcome, being genuine about the reasons that you want to do, 257 00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:55,600 having that in kind of intrinsic motivation that is thinking 258 00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:59,220 about it like a home. Like I want people who step into 259 00:13:59,230 --> 00:14:01,440 our home. I can actually say that now I 260 00:14:01,450 --> 00:14:03,700 want people who are in our home. I want them to feel comfortable 261 00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:05,420 there. I want them to feel like we are 262 00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:08,270 happy to have them there. It doesn't matter what they 263 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,560 believe. It doesn't matter what they look 264 00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:09,970 like. It does. 265 00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:11,200 It does. Those things don't matter. 266 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:15,960 I want them when they are in our home to feel like there is a 267 00:14:15,970 --> 00:14:19,240 sense of warmth and belonging there. 268 00:14:19,310 --> 00:14:22,420 And I and, and how do we bring that out to a macro level at a 269 00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:24,790 church for people I think is important? 270 00:14:25,530 --> 00:14:30,640 That's great. OK, next word give, gosh, give 271 00:14:31,610 --> 00:14:35,140 and and so obviously like giving is correct connected to 272 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:36,320 generosity. Sure. 273 00:14:36,780 --> 00:14:41,550 And, and, and just thinking, thinking through, I guess 274 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,970 sharing and, and I, I like that idea that you said out of 275 00:14:45,020 --> 00:14:51,090 giving, not necessarily being equated with loss, that, that 276 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:54,530 there is something to be gained when we give and there is 277 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,750 something that, that when we, when we do this together, there 278 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,070 is, there is something beautiful that happens. 279 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:03,380 Do you think I mean like it's funny, so often when we talk 280 00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:07,190 about give, the words are we give away like even that concept 281 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,470 of like it's going from you, it's going far from you. 282 00:15:11,550 --> 00:15:14,460 Is you're right. We that is intrinsically 283 00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:16,960 connected or or often in language connected to the 284 00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:24,440 concept of give as where I mean at its most basic level in the 285 00:15:24,450 --> 00:15:26,480 sounds, you know, like it sounds like a little bit like 286 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:29,280 self-righteous Christian, which I'm not trying to be, but it's 287 00:15:29,290 --> 00:15:32,960 one of those like nothing is ours, like the earth is yours 288 00:15:32,970 --> 00:15:36,420 and everything in it. So I'm 24, nothing is ours. 289 00:15:36,630 --> 00:15:39,920 And I think that's a hard thing for people to kind of reconcile 290 00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:42,120 in their brain. But what you have been given you 291 00:15:42,130 --> 00:15:47,260 are a steward of and being a steward of something means at 292 00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:52,580 times putting it towards another use like and even the word give 293 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:55,760 like still, it still makes that image of oh, it was mine to 294 00:15:55,770 --> 00:15:58,280 give. But it's it's really more of a 295 00:15:58,290 --> 00:16:02,620 stewarding like you're redirecting it to to a greater 296 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:04,800 need potentially. We have like a really tangible 297 00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:06,790 picture of that in the church here. 298 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,070 You know, for those who have been around for the past couple 299 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,680 of years, we've been a branch of the Guelph Food Bank. 300 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:16,480 We're satellite location. And often people often ask us 301 00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:18,080 where do you like, where do you get all the food from? 302 00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:21,470 Are you dependent entirely on, you know, donations from the 303 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,490 church? I said no, we are a satellite 304 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:27,510 location for the Gulf Food Bank. They twice a week, they will, 305 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,130 they will make it, they will make 2 deliveries per week. 306 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:36,550 And we are in fact, we are stewards to then give that food 307 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,620 to those in need, right? That, you know, so you could 308 00:16:39,630 --> 00:16:44,670 think of the Gulf Food Bank is gone and, and that we are then 309 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,600 becoming, we become the stewards of, of these gifts that we give 310 00:16:48,610 --> 00:16:51,760 to other people, right. And there's something, I think 311 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:54,690 there's something in that for us to think about. 312 00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:59,700 And as a church, how are we growing and stretching our, our 313 00:16:59,710 --> 00:17:01,540 generosity? And, and sometimes that's 314 00:17:01,550 --> 00:17:05,530 uncomfortable. Sometimes it's, it's hard to 315 00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:09,210 especially when you want to. And we'll get into this when we 316 00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:12,460 look at, you know, satisfaction and whatnot, like when we, when 317 00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:17,619 we want to make sure that we've been looking after ourselves. 318 00:17:17,690 --> 00:17:19,280 Yeah. Giving his heart. 319 00:17:19,369 --> 00:17:22,800 Well, and it's not giving is not a call to neglect yourselves. 320 00:17:22,810 --> 00:17:25,359 I think again, like given satisfied are the most related 321 00:17:25,430 --> 00:17:27,380 concepts I would say out of all of them. 322 00:17:27,390 --> 00:17:30,620 It's, I don't think that again, and it's, I think I said this 323 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:34,740 on, so I hope I said this on Sunday, that it's not a call to 324 00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:38,860 like asceticism or deprivation or I don't think, I don't 325 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:43,420 believe that's what what Jesus is calling, calling anyone to. 326 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:49,000 But it is a call to generosity and to sharing and to seeing 327 00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:55,300 needs and saying, if I can meet that need, I have in some way a 328 00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:58,280 duty to do that as part of this community, as part of this 329 00:17:58,290 --> 00:18:01,660 Kingdom. If I see genuine need, I need to 330 00:18:01,670 --> 00:18:03,920 look internally. We need to look into as a 331 00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:08,780 church, what is our role in using what we have provided to 332 00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:12,000 help meet a given need. Again, just like with welcome, 333 00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:13,500 we're not going to be perfect at it. 334 00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:16,800 And not every need can be met by us, by an individual, by a 335 00:18:16,810 --> 00:18:19,980 church that that's not possible. But maybe there's a way we can 336 00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:22,780 connect it to someone else. Like I, I've worked in, in 337 00:18:22,790 --> 00:18:27,440 social services before and no social service agency can meet 338 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:30,820 every need for the people who come to them, but they can also 339 00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:34,880 say, I, I know a way to help you find that I can resource you in, 340 00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:38,160 in another way. So I love that image of giving 341 00:18:38,170 --> 00:18:42,540 is that is, I mean, I think all of these are, are internally 342 00:18:42,550 --> 00:18:46,600 reflective to some ways. And it's if I'm seeing need, 343 00:18:46,910 --> 00:18:50,430 what am I doing? Am I, am I closing my fists? 344 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,690 Am I crossing my hands? Am I saying I can't deal with 345 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,580 that? Or is there is there more of an 346 00:18:55,630 --> 00:19:00,290 openness to dealing with that? And I do think that there is, 347 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,790 you know, a job for the church to do. 348 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:08,450 Our church, every church, should be asking what is the next thing 349 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,990 that God is calling us to? In terms of absolutely. 350 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:15,420 Generous what is the what is the thing that the spirit might be 351 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:19,090 leading us toward and, and I know that, you know, for for 352 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,570 court, right? It seems like it's food 353 00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:23,750 security, right. That's been a big rallying cry 354 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,830 for us with our food security garden, with the food cupboard 355 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,340 and other aspects of well, even even like when people in our 356 00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:35,580 community are, are like, you know, grieving or they've had, 357 00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:39,370 you know, surgery or illness, like man meals, they just got 358 00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:43,900 like food is food is, is seemingly a critical component. 359 00:19:43,910 --> 00:19:44,910 And so it's like, what's the next? 360 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,160 What's the next thing in that way, you know, there, there's 361 00:19:47,170 --> 00:19:49,370 more that we can do. We need to make sure we do it 362 00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:51,000 responsibly. We need to make sure that we can 363 00:19:51,010 --> 00:19:55,970 actually like, sustainably do that moving forward, right? 364 00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:58,360 So we gotta make, you know, every church has to decide for 365 00:19:58,370 --> 00:20:02,820 themselves what? What they can do, But I also 366 00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:07,100 think we need to like, not play it too safe, right? 367 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:09,090 That God stretches. Us, yes. 368 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:13,230 That stretches us when we when we are faithful and in calling. 369 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,380 Well, and there's a piece to this story, and this is the 370 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:18,350 thing probably we did not touch on on Sunday at all. 371 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,480 There is a faith component to this story because the disciples 372 00:20:21,490 --> 00:20:27,910 are asked to give up what food they have for themselves so that 373 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,640 they could help kind of meet the needs of others. 374 00:20:30,650 --> 00:20:33,920 So I mean, we talked about give. There is an element of, of maybe 375 00:20:33,930 --> 00:20:36,160 sacrifice in here. There's also that element of 376 00:20:36,170 --> 00:20:38,100 trust. I mean, I think again, we talked 377 00:20:38,110 --> 00:20:41,610 about on Sunday, but you know, this is called a wilderness. 378 00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:44,060 The the text says remote place is better translated as 379 00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:46,600 wilderness. Wilderness is a, is a place 380 00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:49,760 often of testing of trust. You know, you see it with the 381 00:20:49,770 --> 00:20:52,270 Israelites, with God providing their their daily needs. 382 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,160 You see it with Elijah and Kerith and God meeting his needs 383 00:20:57,170 --> 00:20:59,540 that through the Ravens. And then again, that's a place 384 00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:02,260 of wilderness. So wilderness is about God's 385 00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:05,380 provision. It's also how are we trusting? 386 00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:09,700 How are we, how are we leaning into knowing that God provides 387 00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:12,480 abundantly even when we don't, you know, for the disciples, 388 00:21:12,490 --> 00:21:14,160 they don't they don't know what Jesus is going to do. 389 00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:17,880 They they see again, they see 55 lobes divisions like that's not 390 00:21:17,890 --> 00:21:19,420 enough. What on earth could possibly 391 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:22,700 happen here? And but again, it was leaning in 392 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:26,300 to trust, leaning into, OK, I guess we're going to trust that 393 00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:27,560 God is going to do something here. 394 00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:32,250 He's going to show up and and he often does so. 395 00:21:33,170 --> 00:21:34,440 That's good. That's good. 396 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:37,290 OK, everyone. Next word. 397 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,650 This one probably could be a little shorter because it's 398 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,650 simple. Everyone means everyone means 399 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:44,770 everyone. But I think that, you know, just 400 00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:52,110 to to riff on that a little bit, like everyone, even in spite of 401 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,840 maybe theological differences, lifestyle differences, Yep, you 402 00:21:56,850 --> 00:22:01,550 know, like there was no way for the Jesus and the disciples to 403 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,580 like, you know, do some sort of like. 404 00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:05,140 There's no background. No background. 405 00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:07,410 There's no background checks. On these as they arrive. 406 00:22:07,550 --> 00:22:12,450 And that's a challenge. That's an attention that when we 407 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:17,390 consider our our welcome and our embrace and our generosity 408 00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:21,360 toward people, that the challenge is, is that it's gonna 409 00:22:21,370 --> 00:22:24,360 be uncomfortable because there's people that we're not gonna 410 00:22:24,370 --> 00:22:27,580 agree with and that we're not gonna even necessarily like, 411 00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:29,820 like on a social level. Yeah. 412 00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:32,850 I think that everyone, like you said, everyone can be shorter 413 00:22:32,860 --> 00:22:34,860 because it's simpler and we know what it means. 414 00:22:35,090 --> 00:22:38,700 I agree with that. I also think that when you like, 415 00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:42,600 when we think of everyone, it's easy to think of like our 416 00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:44,980 friends or the people that, oh, I really want to get to know 417 00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:47,820 them better. Like if that's easy, it's think 418 00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:54,030 of the people that you struggle with most and what does it mean 419 00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:57,830 to welcome that person? Yeah, not in a way that 420 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,730 jeopardizes safety or things like that. 421 00:22:59,740 --> 00:23:01,690 Like, I mean, there's always, there's always a balance. 422 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:04,370 But what what does it mean? I mean, again, I think that we 423 00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:07,630 so quickly go like, I would we love the picture of welcome. 424 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,100 And then I'm like, OK, but like that means welcoming this and 425 00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:12,130 welcoming that and welcoming this and. 426 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,040 Yeah, it, it ends up becoming very messy very quickly. 427 00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:22,730 And when we when we broaden our, our welcome to everyone and, and 428 00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:26,890 that is a that's a challenge. That's something that, you know, 429 00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:31,250 we've worked in a few different spheres, you and I of, of 430 00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:34,810 ministry you worked at, at, at Hope House, Yep, for a number of 431 00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:37,870 years. And, and there is a like, when 432 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,570 we consider folks that are, that are struggling with addiction, 433 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:46,650 folks that are struggling with housing security, there's, 434 00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:48,740 there's challenging situations out there, like absolutely 435 00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:51,920 people that are having extreme mental health crises. 436 00:23:54,910 --> 00:23:58,440 And, and then, and then for, for others who maybe that is not 437 00:23:58,450 --> 00:24:01,590 maybe in their purview as much. Like just think about the type 438 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:08,620 of person that you get along with the least, someone who kind 439 00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:11,520 of represents your ire in some way, right? 440 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:15,160 Like that is like, we gotta figure out how we do that. 441 00:24:15,170 --> 00:24:18,100 Well, you know, and, and we're not going to do it perfectly 442 00:24:18,430 --> 00:24:19,980 and. How do we love those people? 443 00:24:20,030 --> 00:24:22,550 Like, like, like and again, like. 444 00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:25,990 I could be the challenge to someone and recognizing that 445 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,190 that me and and what I represent and the things I believe that 446 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,830 could be a big challenge for someone else. 447 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,520 And how would I want that person to embrace me and see the 448 00:24:34,530 --> 00:24:36,410 fullness of me? Yeah, right. 449 00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:39,300 And being able to extend that to others. 450 00:24:39,390 --> 00:24:43,020 So. Yeah, it's, it's hard and and 451 00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:49,620 we, we need, we need God. We need God's strength because 452 00:24:49,690 --> 00:24:52,200 people are challenging, including me. 453 00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:55,290 I am also people. I'm not gonna. 454 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:58,610 Say it this way, she's like I can confirm. 455 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,340 I can confirm that. But again, I can be challenging 456 00:25:02,350 --> 00:25:03,760 too. We never we never want to think 457 00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:07,940 of ourselves as being the challenge, but we what we would 458 00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:14,710 be to some people. And I think just again, how do 459 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,370 we how do we lean into people with curiosity? 460 00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:22,130 How do we lean into them with trying to think well of them, 461 00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:24,570 trying to assume the best about people? 462 00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:29,290 Yeah, Yeah. I don't it's, it's one of those 463 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:30,170 it's very. Hard. 464 00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:33,050 And then also how are we not naive? 465 00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:36,840 You know, to sure there is a certain, especially when when 466 00:25:36,850 --> 00:25:40,950 you're dealing with, you know, there's subsets of people where 467 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,760 who will try to take advantage and who will try to, you know, 468 00:25:45,770 --> 00:25:49,400 like utilize or yeah, take advantage of someone's kindness, 469 00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:50,900 right? And I've been in that situation 470 00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:56,060 where where someone not not at court, right, but or someone has 471 00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:58,470 popped in my office and they've said I need this, that and 472 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,240 everything. And you know you're believing. 473 00:26:01,250 --> 00:26:03,720 It's earnest. And then you find out they were 474 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:05,560 lying. Well, and again, we have to go 475 00:26:05,570 --> 00:26:07,580 back, it's easy to think of these as one-on-one 476 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:09,860 interactions, like all individual one-on-one 477 00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:11,900 interactions. If we think about, you know, 478 00:26:11,910 --> 00:26:15,200 church spaces or, or any place where there is a group of 479 00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:21,970 people, everyone has to mean everyone where it means of 480 00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:25,700 welcoming. I, I, I want to like, I hate 481 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:28,080 reducing people down to like letters and things like that. 482 00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:32,660 But like if, if welcoming one person or one group means that 483 00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:36,250 other people are unsafe or feel unsafe or there's something 484 00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:42,180 there, again, everyone often means doing the best for a group 485 00:26:42,190 --> 00:26:44,000 of people. And, and what does that look 486 00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:45,040 like? And understanding. 487 00:26:45,050 --> 00:26:46,930 Yeah. I mean, I in our one-on-one 488 00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:49,980 interactions, I do think that we should be welcoming, but I think 489 00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:52,840 it's easy to think of things in a very individualistic way. 490 00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:56,660 And we have to also look, take it, take it broadly into what 491 00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:59,560 does it look like to be a welcoming group. 492 00:26:59,610 --> 00:27:00,640 Yeah. No, that's helpful. 493 00:27:00,650 --> 00:27:02,740 That's good. OK, next word. 494 00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:05,980 Satisfied. This I think is the hardest one. 495 00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:08,400 I think in many ways I absolutely it's. 496 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,060 Right up there with give the two together. 497 00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:16,400 Struck me that being satisfied is a particular weakness in here 498 00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:19,120 in the West. You know, we struggle with not 499 00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:22,190 having enough for perceivably not having enough. 500 00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:25,420 We there, we do hoard things sometimes. 501 00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:27,210 You do have access. We. 502 00:27:27,710 --> 00:27:32,900 And yet I know that many of us, including you and I, wrestle 503 00:27:32,910 --> 00:27:37,950 with how to be satisfied with what we have, both now and for 504 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,080 the future. You know, how do we embody this 505 00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:45,180 idea of everyone having their needs met, everyone being 506 00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:50,000 generous, everyone being satisfied will also say looking 507 00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:52,140 out for ourselves for the long haul. 508 00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:54,860 You know, I'm thinking particularly of something like 509 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:59,060 retirement that many of us are, you know, have a lot of 510 00:27:59,130 --> 00:28:03,540 existential dread about when we think about not having enough, 511 00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:07,280 when we when we get to that point where we want to stop 512 00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:10,820 working or we can no longer work full time. 513 00:28:10,930 --> 00:28:13,800 So, you know, is it wrong to save for retirement when there 514 00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:16,200 are so many who don't have enough today? 515 00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:21,400 Is that not similar to like our, you know, when Jesus prays as 516 00:28:21,410 --> 00:28:24,060 you alluded to, you know, give us Our Daily Bread or like the 517 00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:26,410 manna and the quail in in the deserts? 518 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:31,820 Can I leave now? Choking. 519 00:28:32,670 --> 00:28:36,240 No, it's one of those, I gosh, those are big questions and I 520 00:28:36,250 --> 00:28:39,060 think we have to wrestle with I, I mean, part of me is hesitant 521 00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:44,780 to give an answer only because I don't know if I have an answer 522 00:28:44,790 --> 00:28:48,040 formulated in my head that I am 100% happy with. 523 00:28:48,050 --> 00:28:49,340 I mean, I think we can talk about it. 524 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:52,760 I mean, do I think it is wrong to save for the future? 525 00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:55,280 No, some people do. Some people do. 526 00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:59,020 I, I don't think it's wrong to save for the future. 527 00:28:59,070 --> 00:29:05,050 Do I think saving means that you have to have lifestyle X when 528 00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:09,400 you could accept lifestyle why? Or when lifestyle Y is more than 529 00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:12,450 enough? But you I think that we have to 530 00:29:12,460 --> 00:29:20,350 ask bigger questions about needs and what is a need. 531 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,770 And again, it comes back to the question of satisfaction. 532 00:29:22,780 --> 00:29:27,360 Is there is a wisdom in knowing when to say enough? 533 00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:30,730 I think you see a creation. He knew he was that's after six 534 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:32,080 days. It was of course, he could have 535 00:29:32,090 --> 00:29:33,790 kept adding. He could have done a continuous 536 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,410 output or, or, you know, whatever. 537 00:29:36,420 --> 00:29:38,090 But he says, no, I'm going to stop that. 538 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,250 I, I've done enough. There is enough here that is 539 00:29:40,260 --> 00:29:42,950 complete. I and I think there is a rhythm 540 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,830 that we need to know to learn when to say is enough. 541 00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:51,040 I don't know that enough is the same for every person. 542 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:55,740 It could be these are very I'm gonna How about I just turn the 543 00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:57,320 question back on you? What do you think? 544 00:29:57,810 --> 00:30:01,380 What do you think about that? Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, this is 545 00:30:01,390 --> 00:30:05,740 again, This is why I think this is a genuine wrestling with our 546 00:30:06,370 --> 00:30:12,580 within our Western culture. And and I I don't think there 547 00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:16,230 are hard and fast answers. I think that the Bible, the 548 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,500 Bible offers lots of kind of wisdom for how we approach our, 549 00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:25,900 you know, our, our possessions and resources and, and even 550 00:30:25,910 --> 00:30:27,410 money, right? Yeah. 551 00:30:27,450 --> 00:30:30,000 It's not something that the Bible is shy to talk about. 552 00:30:30,010 --> 00:30:33,640 The Bible talks about money a lot more than many, many other 553 00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:34,800 subjects. Right. 554 00:30:34,810 --> 00:30:38,300 Yeah. And so like, it's clearly 555 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:43,200 something that matters a lot. It's clearly something that that 556 00:30:43,270 --> 00:30:47,100 we need to like, we need to be in prayer over. 557 00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:52,080 We need to like deeply consider the implications of what we are 558 00:30:52,090 --> 00:30:57,470 doing, how we're doing it like. And I think that maybe what I 559 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,160 could say is that for some people, the natural bent is I 560 00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:07,240 just, I'm just gonna do everything that culture says 561 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:11,500 that I'm supposed to do, that I'm supposed to work and climb 562 00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:15,700 the ladder, make as much money as humanly possible, and maybe. 563 00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:19,540 I'll retire as soon as I possibly can so I can travel the 564 00:31:19,550 --> 00:31:21,960 world when like. Retirement is not in the Bible. 565 00:31:22,030 --> 00:31:24,320 Like Moses didn't retire. Yeah. 566 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:26,600 Well, then you start, I mean, I agree. 567 00:31:26,670 --> 00:31:28,870 And then you start getting to the conversations about like, 568 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,420 well, they didn't live as long as we did. 569 00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:32,730 You have to live longer. And there's all of these 570 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:34,270 questions about that. I mean, I will. 571 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,770 So I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually retract something that I said 572 00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:39,070 or, or add to something that I said earlier without losing 573 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,500 where you're going. But retirement, I think that if 574 00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:48,800 you are either spending or saving and you have no margin 575 00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:53,870 for generosity, you are never satisfied with what you're 576 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,860 getting. You always need to have more or 577 00:31:55,870 --> 00:32:02,420 new or better that you stay up at night or often throughout 578 00:32:02,430 --> 00:32:04,680 your day. Think about the scarcity you 579 00:32:04,690 --> 00:32:07,730 have, not having enough, worrying about it constantly. 580 00:32:08,150 --> 00:32:12,270 It keeps you up at night when you are living a very 581 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,550 comfortable life. I would say those are kind of 582 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,590 internal checkpoints we have to look at. 583 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,130 Like if I, if we, and I mean I'll, I'll use we. 584 00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:22,250 But if we were ever saving to the point where we could no 585 00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:24,830 longer be generous because we were so concerned with our own 586 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,970 security, we have lost the plot. We have lost the plot of of what 587 00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:31,490 it's supposed to be about. And that's what I mean. 588 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:37,260 Like I don't have a problem with people saving, but when it comes 589 00:32:37,270 --> 00:32:40,490 at the cost of all the other words, when it's you're doing it 590 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:43,170 because you can't be satisfied. If you're doing it because 591 00:32:43,220 --> 00:32:46,060 giving and sharing is just so hard for you. 592 00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:47,600 If you're doing it because you're trusting in your 593 00:32:47,610 --> 00:32:50,770 security, and that rather than trusting your security in God, 594 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,990 then there are questions that you need to ask yourself about 595 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,490 your posture towards those. Things, I think you hit the nail 596 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:01,070 on the head there like that when when there is no margin for that 597 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,860 generosity, that's that should be a a big flashing warning 598 00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:09,780 sign. Yeah, that something is not 599 00:33:09,790 --> 00:33:11,760 right. Absolutely, Yeah. 600 00:33:11,770 --> 00:33:16,710 No, I think that like if we, if you have your daily needs met 601 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,300 and you have some leftover at the end of the day, can you save 602 00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:21,540 some? Yeah, I think you can. 603 00:33:21,550 --> 00:33:23,930 If you're saving so much that you're you're never going to 604 00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:27,900 need all that and you're you're ignoring the fact that someone 605 00:33:27,910 --> 00:33:29,740 else doesn't have their daily needs met. 606 00:33:29,750 --> 00:33:32,800 Like if you, if you can do that in good conscience, ignore that. 607 00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:36,670 Ignore a need that you see that, you know, you could meet by you 608 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,310 having just that little less savings or they say you're 609 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,950 having you have little less access later on. 610 00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:43,970 I mean, I think you would have to check your heart posture. 611 00:33:43,980 --> 00:33:47,500 And I say that with no judgment because I am a person who, I 612 00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:50,050 mean, I think I said this on Sunday, I love a good plan. 613 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,010 Like I love a good I, I love a good plan. 614 00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:56,550 And and that's there's a natural wiring in me towards that. 615 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,730 But it can also become a distraction of if I don't follow 616 00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:04,120 this plan exactly, there's going to be failure when I don't think 617 00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:08,110 that's how we're called to live. I think we need to, I mean, I 618 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,520 don't want to get this into a conversation about tithing or 619 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:13,239 whatever it has to be and we can cut this out if it needs to go, 620 00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:16,500 but I think some people often stick, wait, I'm hitting the 621 00:34:16,510 --> 00:34:18,159 microphone. I think people stick way too 622 00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:21,760 closely to like the idea of 10%. I think some people could be 623 00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:24,030 called to give 5%. I think some people could be 624 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,750 called to give 25%. I think that your tithing needs 625 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,780 to be a very a reflective spirit filled conversation about what 626 00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:35,380 you have the capacity to meet in terms of other people's needs. 627 00:34:35,389 --> 00:34:39,929 I think the idea that it's 10% and beyond 10%, I can do 628 00:34:39,940 --> 00:34:41,870 whatever the heck I want in this world. 629 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,889 I I think there is. I would question that attitude, 630 00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:51,370 I would say. I I, I love that I'll let you 631 00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:54,409 say that rather than cause it's like it's hard for. 632 00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,390 For a pastor when you're no, but I think typing I mean I would 633 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,410 also say tithe tithing I think is in generosity. 634 00:35:00,620 --> 00:35:03,150 Do I think you have to give all 10% to the church? 635 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,670 This might be an unpopular opinion for a pastors wife. 636 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:07,330 We might have to cut this part out. 637 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,830 I I don't I don't think that tithing has to only be to a 638 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,070 church. I think you should be giving to 639 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,660 your church. I think you should be giving if 640 00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:19,080 you are worshipping in, in a community and you agree with the 641 00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:21,320 mission and the vision of that church, you should be tithing to 642 00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:23,300 it. Again, I, I don't think it has 643 00:35:23,310 --> 00:35:26,000 to be a static 10%. I think some people give more. 644 00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:29,140 There are people who live in more scarcity and giving is 645 00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:31,080 really hard for them. And I think we need to honor 646 00:35:31,090 --> 00:35:32,640 that. I think telling them if you're 647 00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:35,650 not giving 10%, you're not a good Christian like I, I have an 648 00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:38,660 issue with that, that mentality across the board. 649 00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:42,120 And also, and again, as as a pastor, it always, it's very 650 00:35:42,490 --> 00:35:46,180 fraught with like, because it just, it feels very like self, 651 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,500 self-serving and yeah, even self preserving in some ways, right. 652 00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:54,250 Like, and, and so I, I feel often very uncomfortable with 653 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,730 those sorts of conversations, but I like, I like the way that 654 00:35:57,820 --> 00:36:01,320 you approach that. And yeah. 655 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,770 I think generosity needs to, you know, I think that I love the 656 00:36:04,780 --> 00:36:06,790 idea of generosity. I think of generosity for a tax 657 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,090 receipt, which I, I utilize tax receipts. 658 00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:11,570 Again, we don't talk about this, but like I, I give to charities 659 00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:14,890 and you get tax receipts for it. I also think informal generosity 660 00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:17,500 is important of seeing again, seeing a need, meeting it and 661 00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:18,790 getting nothing in return I think. 662 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,580 Flipping someone some cash? Flipping someone some cash, I 663 00:36:21,590 --> 00:36:24,460 mean making food, having people over to having a big group of 664 00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:26,200 people over your house that costs money. 665 00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:30,860 Like I think that having making sure that you are being generous 666 00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:35,750 with your resources goes, it's a bigger mindset than sometimes 667 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,610 what we reduce it to is what I will say. 668 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,090 Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if we ever talked 669 00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:43,690 on being satisfied, knowing when to say enough. 670 00:36:43,790 --> 00:36:46,300 That's being satisfied. OK, we're good knowing when to 671 00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:49,380 say enough. And we've said enough for now. 672 00:36:49,390 --> 00:36:53,260 For said enough. Let's touch before we wrap up, 673 00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:56,160 let's talk about that final word broken. 674 00:36:56,530 --> 00:37:01,540 And you talked about the the foreshadowing of of this being 675 00:37:01,660 --> 00:37:06,160 an image of the Last Supper and then ultimately Jesus's body 676 00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:13,130 being broken for our sin. I I just so rich, but 677 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,870 practically speaking, OK, how do we, how do we think about 678 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,690 brokenness? How do we think about the act 679 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,790 of, of the bread being broken? Is, is there something for us to 680 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,810 consider when we when we look at our lives, our lives as a 681 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:31,710 church? Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of 682 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,030 layers there to broken because brokenness in, in this passage I 683 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,220 think is the is the mechanism to abundance. 684 00:37:37,230 --> 00:37:40,250 Jesus breaks the bread and then we see the miracle of 685 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:43,730 multiplication. There, there's something. 686 00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:46,000 There's something. There there's I know, and I 687 00:37:46,060 --> 00:37:47,930 actually struggled to articulate it when I was writing. 688 00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:50,460 I'm like, I know there's something there, but I can't 689 00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:53,900 quite. Well, OK, so brokenness. 690 00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:56,890 And if we use that in kind of like our more modern vernacular, 691 00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,900 which I think works like when we think about like I am a, I am a 692 00:37:59,910 --> 00:38:03,080 broken individual. I I am, you know, there are 693 00:38:03,090 --> 00:38:06,560 parts of my life that are fractured and out of order from 694 00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:11,260 the way that it ought to be and there but there is something 695 00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:16,570 that happens when we, when we share that brokenness. 696 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,690 Right, like, and, and I think that's what I was trying to get. 697 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:20,230 I'm gonna take I'm gonna take it away from you. 698 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,950 Great. But like when, when there is an 699 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,450 acknowledgement of that brokenness, when it is seen, 700 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:29,190 when it is understood, I feel like that's when we talked 701 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,510 about, you know, the abundant grace, the abundant mercy, the 702 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,910 abundant love of God in this miracle of abundance. 703 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,300 It's our brokenness is the places where the abundance comes 704 00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:43,540 in and flows through and where it where it doesn't work in us. 705 00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:45,680 There is something there about that. 706 00:38:45,730 --> 00:38:49,470 And then there's also something about just, and I'll use the 707 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,780 word vulnerability because I think it's there's a connection 708 00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:57,480 there that when we are vulnerable in our brokenness, 709 00:38:58,070 --> 00:39:02,440 when we, when we share our brokenness with one another, 710 00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:05,800 like God does some amazing things. 711 00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:08,490 Yeah, there's a multiplication factor there too, right? 712 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:12,210 Like you like if us sharing our vulnerability, what it could 713 00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:15,110 mean to another person. The work of the Spirit that can 714 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,290 be done in us and can be done in others by sharing that again, 715 00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:21,650 you see, I think that kind of miraculous abundance and 716 00:39:21,660 --> 00:39:25,980 multiplication. I'm have an oversharer at times 717 00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:28,060 and so sometimes after like a sermon. 718 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,640 You. So like after a sermon, someone 719 00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,900 will will come up to me and they be like Justin, like thank you 720 00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:40,080 so much for just for your like just openness and transparency 721 00:39:40,090 --> 00:39:43,040 to share about like your your vulnerability and be like was I 722 00:39:43,210 --> 00:39:46,270 what like what? There's also something really 723 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,320 beautiful in that because I mean, I think and you and you do 724 00:39:49,330 --> 00:39:52,930 this really well, I can say this as your wife is that you, you 725 00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:55,270 don't lean away from the vulnerability of that to the 726 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,210 point where sometimes it doesn't even feel like you're being 727 00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:00,550 vulnerable. I can be the opposite of that 728 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,370 where and it's not because I don't want to see that 729 00:40:02,380 --> 00:40:05,050 multiplication and it's not because I don't believe that the 730 00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:08,970 spirit is working in my life. I have, I've always been a more 731 00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:11,570 private person for lots of reasons. 732 00:40:11,580 --> 00:40:15,030 And it's and, and yet it's a challenge to me to remember 733 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,170 that. There is still a piece of my 734 00:40:18,180 --> 00:40:22,430 brokenness that it doesn't have to be shameful, it can be shared 735 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,810 with others and and the Spirit can do an amazing work through 736 00:40:25,820 --> 00:40:29,470 that so. Well, I mean, you've had the the 737 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,010 challenge of growing up pastors kid. 738 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,920 I mean, that does do it sometimes is that you just need 739 00:40:34,930 --> 00:40:38,920 a little more privacy. Sometimes it's helpful. 740 00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:41,120 Yeah, we, I mean, my dad was a pastor of a large church. 741 00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:45,740 So it was that that brings with it its own layers of being in 742 00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:48,740 ministry. So like, and so like, I don't 743 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:53,620 like, I don't think that, that you are like wrong for, for your 744 00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:57,260 approach because I know, I know, yeah, you, you have, you have a 745 00:40:57,270 --> 00:41:01,000 sphere of, of, of friends and people that you can be, be 746 00:41:01,010 --> 00:41:04,620 transparent and vulnerable with and, and, you know, talk through 747 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:07,140 your, you know, life's challenges and, and do it in 748 00:41:07,150 --> 00:41:08,200 that. Way I would agree. 749 00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:10,700 I mean, I think that the same thing of trying to, you know, 750 00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:13,270 lean into the trust of God is sometimes you do have to just 751 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,040 take those those leaps and and trust that God will do something 752 00:41:17,050 --> 00:41:18,180 with it. You know, we talked about with 753 00:41:18,190 --> 00:41:20,490 giving, we talked about that with other things. 754 00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:21,940 I think you. I think in all of these you have 755 00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:23,550 to do. That yeah, there there's 756 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:29,330 something there is something pretty profound about when when 757 00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:34,790 we take that leap of faith and and share our story, share our 758 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,380 life, share the the dark, even the dark spaces of our life and 759 00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:43,390 the the broken places in our life, the ways in which God 760 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:48,290 meets us in that place, the ways that other people are are 761 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:50,970 encouraged because they're like, I'm not alone. 762 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,880 Yeah, I know and then and then it can extend to actually 763 00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:57,180 encouraging one another in growth in those areas. 764 00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:59,130 Yeah, right. For sure, you know, for someone 765 00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:03,760 who, who is, you know, honest and vulnerable about a 766 00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:06,920 particular sin that they're struggling with or a particular, 767 00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:11,930 um, if they're struggling through just issues in there in 768 00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:14,600 their relationship and their parenting journey in their 769 00:42:14,610 --> 00:42:18,030 marriage, whatever, right? That it's like 8. 770 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,420 We're not alone. We're in this together and it, 771 00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:25,040 and it multiplies the, the, the care and concern and the love 772 00:42:25,050 --> 00:42:27,710 for one another. And then there can actually be 773 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:31,100 like change. You know, we we can't change if 774 00:42:31,110 --> 00:42:35,940 we're not willing to like face and share with with God and with 775 00:42:35,950 --> 00:42:42,800 one another. OK, so one final thought. 776 00:42:44,140 --> 00:42:49,250 We touch on this in you touched on this a little bit, this idea 777 00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:53,590 of Jesus getting them to gather in groups of about 50, which 778 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,110 were like the biblical components of that. 779 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,600 There's a. There's a numbers components. 780 00:42:58,610 --> 00:43:03,450 To it, 50 is an important number and that's what you see. 781 00:43:03,460 --> 00:43:07,350 You mentioned Jubilee and were some other things you didn't get 782 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,890 into that you? Don't know if people are 783 00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:13,190 interested in this, but like so 10 is 7 and three. 784 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,840 The 2 numbers have complete 3, the complete community 7 is the 785 00:43:15,850 --> 00:43:18,390 number of completion. That's number 10 together and 786 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,070 five or the five books of Moses. Then you have 5 and the 10 787 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,410 together which equals 50. There is a whole like 788 00:43:23,420 --> 00:43:27,170 numerological component to this passage which we did not touch 789 00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:30,730 on which I recommend people researching on their own time, 790 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,750 but I. Love, I love the way you just 791 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:33,740 rhyme that up. That's. 792 00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:35,280 Great. Yeah, it's all there. 793 00:43:35,290 --> 00:43:38,040 And then like you add another 10, which is like 10 and the 794 00:43:38,050 --> 00:43:40,010 three together gives you the 1000. 795 00:43:40,020 --> 00:43:41,650 It's great. So, OK. 796 00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:46,140 But I'm thinking like just very practically about the number of 797 00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:48,700 kind of in and around 50. Yes, yeah. 798 00:43:48,770 --> 00:43:51,900 And I think about the way in which, you know, you mentioned 799 00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:54,070 that, you know, well, we mentioned that Jesus has them 800 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,290 gathering this, that, that roughly that number of people. 801 00:43:57,370 --> 00:43:59,990 And then also that Moses did that as well. 802 00:44:00,590 --> 00:44:04,700 And I wonder if there's something to that, that when we 803 00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:10,460 think about our ability, our capacity as a, as a people, just 804 00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:15,320 as like, just as people to like have people in our world that we 805 00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:18,600 can care for one another. Like if you're in a Church of 806 00:44:18,670 --> 00:44:22,310 20,000 people, that's that's hard. 807 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,960 It's hard to care for 20,000 people. 808 00:44:24,030 --> 00:44:26,380 You need small groups. You need smaller. 809 00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:27,880 Groups, you need smaller groups, right? 810 00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:29,280 Yeah. And so that's where, you know, 811 00:44:29,290 --> 00:44:32,330 I, I'm just kind of riffing off this idea of like, OK, you know, 812 00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:35,330 even, you know, there are small churches out there that are, you 813 00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:38,120 know, of around 50 that would probably do a really, really 814 00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:41,660 good job of caring for one another in the way that is 815 00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:45,100 described in this passage. You also have groups within 816 00:44:45,110 --> 00:44:47,680 churches, you know, like within court, right? 817 00:44:47,690 --> 00:44:51,100 If we have, you know, say like our, our seniors group, which 818 00:44:51,110 --> 00:44:54,380 could be around 50 or maybe a bit more, right? 819 00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:58,480 You have our, our kids, you know, kids ministry with kids 820 00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:01,160 and parents of probably more than 50. 821 00:45:01,170 --> 00:45:05,920 But it's like it's, it's a it's a reasonable amount that we can 822 00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:08,880 be in community with one another, that we can love each 823 00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:12,600 other, welcome each other, that we can share our lives and our 824 00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:14,430 brokenness and all that kind of stuff. 825 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,140 Like, and I'm just thinking about that number 50. 826 00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:20,050 And just like, yeah, I just want to RIP off a little. 827 00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:21,240 Bit, yeah, I mean, I don't know why. 828 00:45:21,250 --> 00:45:23,230 I mean, I agree the number 50 is significant. 829 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,820 We've already talked about that in the passage. 830 00:45:24,830 --> 00:45:28,450 Why that was the command for Moses to do that in the 831 00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:31,780 wilderness being the number 50. Was it symbolic at that point? 832 00:45:31,790 --> 00:45:33,480 Maybe it was symbolic at that point. 833 00:45:33,490 --> 00:45:39,590 I think there is something there about that being this sounds 834 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,190 weird being a manageable size of needs that you you can kind of 835 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,050 keep a pulse on or that you can realistically meet. 836 00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:49,990 I I think that I mean, Jesus modeled there are smaller 837 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,430 groups. He had his most intimate 838 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,550 friends, then he had the disciples, then he had larger 839 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,140 groups. So we, we've see, you know, 840 00:45:56,700 --> 00:46:00,210 multi tiered size of groups throughout throughout the 841 00:46:00,220 --> 00:46:03,130 scriptures and they all serve their various purposes. 842 00:46:03,140 --> 00:46:06,250 But yeah, I think about this group of 50 seems to be the one 843 00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:09,800 that you can reasonably care or you can gather in community, you 844 00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:12,020 can make sure. I mean, we, you know, in in 845 00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:15,020 Moses and the wilderness, there was a leader appointed over 846 00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:17,420 these smaller groups. And I mean, I don't, I don't 847 00:46:17,590 --> 00:46:20,490 know what happened with the feeding of the multitude, but it 848 00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:22,380 wasn't, you know, there was kind of like a point person who was 849 00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:24,670 getting the food, who was making sure it was distributed amongst 850 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,910 the 50. We don't know. 851 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,420 But I think that that would be a reasonable amount of people to 852 00:46:30,430 --> 00:46:32,800 make sure our did everyone get enough to eat it? 853 00:46:32,810 --> 00:46:37,070 Was there enough for this group? Are we meeting meeting the needs 854 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,540 of people we kind of where they're at or what they need. 855 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,290 And I think it's it is more manageable in a smaller group. 856 00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:46,030 I don't think you could have one person. 857 00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:48,910 I mean, you even think about it in a pastoral structure, like 858 00:46:48,980 --> 00:46:51,650 one pastor of a church, depending on its size cannot 859 00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:54,540 meet the needs of everyone. They need to having starting any 860 00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:58,510 more staff, having volunteer to volunteers to come alongside and 861 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,010 help do that. There is only so much we can do 862 00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:04,460 as people. And I think that, you know, when 863 00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:09,490 you're talking about a group or for a gathering or community 50, 864 00:47:10,190 --> 00:47:13,960 for whatever reason, seems to be that which was manageable to put 865 00:47:13,970 --> 00:47:16,920 a put a leader over. Yeah, no, it just strikes me as 866 00:47:16,930 --> 00:47:21,650 something that, you know, I'm always cautious to say, like, 867 00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:25,030 you know, this is the model, this is an exact model that we 868 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,700 have that we have to follow. But I think that there is some 869 00:47:27,710 --> 00:47:30,880 principles there like, hey, this, this is a, you know, just 870 00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:36,860 practically speaking, this is a manageable size for people to be 871 00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:40,600 able to know one another and to be known to share one another's 872 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,400 strives to have each other's needs met. 873 00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:46,460 Where you're, you know, you're in probably enough. 874 00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:49,340 There's going to be enough differences within the people 875 00:47:49,350 --> 00:47:51,810 that it's not totally homogeneous. 876 00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:53,720 Yeah. You know, like I, I just think 877 00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:56,480 that there's something kind of beautiful about that, that I 878 00:47:56,550 --> 00:47:58,100 walked away thinking about a little. 879 00:47:58,110 --> 00:48:00,860 Bit I don't think 50 was prescriptive it. 880 00:48:00,870 --> 00:48:03,620 Even says roughly. Yeah, it says roughly 50I do 881 00:48:03,630 --> 00:48:06,770 think that again from the numerology, I think there is 882 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:08,380 significance. I think Luke is trying to play 883 00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:11,560 on numbers, to draw images, but I don't think, yeah, I don't 884 00:48:11,570 --> 00:48:13,080 think the 50 is meant to be prescriptive. 885 00:48:13,090 --> 00:48:16,470 The, the 50 is, I think, meant to be descriptive of an idea 886 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,530 that it is easier to meet the needs of a community when the 887 00:48:21,540 --> 00:48:25,880 community is a manageable size. Yeah, 5000 men plus however many 888 00:48:25,890 --> 00:48:29,440 women and children is not a manageable size to kind of 889 00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:31,680 figure out how everything is going on. 890 00:48:31,690 --> 00:48:35,290 But you know, smaller groups of 50, they become something where 891 00:48:35,300 --> 00:48:38,120 we can be, where we can be truly welcoming, where we can be truly 892 00:48:38,130 --> 00:48:41,830 intentional, where we can ensure, like you said, making 893 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,240 sure we're we're we're knowing people and, and maybe, you know, 894 00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:47,460 you can be vulnerable with people and, and that kind of 895 00:48:47,470 --> 00:48:49,960 size. I think it's, it's the 896 00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:51,870 manageable. I don't have manageable sounds 897 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,910 so. Well, it's it's. 898 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,910 Annoying like. Very practical. 899 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,350 Practical. I mean, it sounds very 900 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,050 practical. But that's OK, that's what we 901 00:48:59,060 --> 00:49:00,250 want. We want, we want to be thinking 902 00:49:00,260 --> 00:49:03,420 through those things. So and so again, we'll leave it 903 00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:08,020 there for now, but I hope that you'll take some time to think 904 00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:15,250 and reflect on these 5 words. Welcome, Give everyone satisfied 905 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,070 and broken and think about the way that that looks like in your 906 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,610 life, in the life of our church, in the life of our world 907 00:49:22,620 --> 00:49:28,410 ultimately, because as we want to see Jesus Kingdom break into 908 00:49:28,420 --> 00:49:31,510 our world, this is the image that Jesus gives us. 909 00:49:31,790 --> 00:49:34,830 And so we hope that you'll think about the ways in which that 910 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:40,550 looks like for for all of us. So have a great week and we will 911 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:41,700 see you next time.