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Hey, friend, Welcome to another 
episode of the Sunday. 

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Sit down. 
And we hope that this episode 

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finds you having a good winter 
week. 

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Felt like winter disappeared for
a few days and we got a whole 

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lot of rain and everything 
flooded and and then it all 

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froze and here we are with a 
parking lot full of ice. 

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So that was a fun morning. 
Yeah. 

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We hope that you're having a 
good start to your new year. 

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I don't know about you, Justin, 
or you who's listening, but my 

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wife and I were talking this 
week like, it's just felt like 

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2026 has started off by like a 
little bit punch you in the 

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teeth kind of way. 
And it's. 

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I don't know exactly why that 
is. 

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There's a lot going on. 
There's a lot going on in the 

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world, and it seems like 
everybody's sick and. 

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And the weather sucks, yeah. 
And it's like all the things 

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combined. 
I yeah, I, I feel that. 

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I feel that, yeah. 
Yeah. 

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But Happy New Year for whatever 
that is worth at this point, I 

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think this too far along. 
I don't think you can say Happy 

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New Year on the 12th of January 
anymore. 

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You know what it's we got a 
month, we got a month, we got 

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January. 
That's that's only one in 12 for

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like the year you. 
Know, I did call 2026 a newborn 

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baby that's still wet behind the
ears in the sermon. 

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Like if Tony 26 was a baby, it 
would still be wet behind it, 

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like, just fresh out. 
So it is the start of the new 

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year, Yeah. 
So and you started off we've 

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started back into Luke in our 
Sunday for Sunday worship. 

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We are. 
You kind of talked a little bit 

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about like, you know, you can do
the calculations. 

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We're halfway through, yeah, 
this and, and you, we started 

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off back into Luke with like an 
exceptionally like challenging 

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passage. 
It's like their their passages. 

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Like I think the last time we 
were in Luke, which was I think 

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when I was preaching from the 
beginning of Luke 12 and the end

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of Luke 11, it was like 
theologically challenging in 

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some ways, in a lot of ways, 
This one pretty pretty clear in 

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many ways. 
Like they, there's, there's 

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some, I think nuance of 
understanding, but man, like I 

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think just just challenge. 
This was challenging in a very 

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different way, convicting. 
I know for a lot of people I 

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know that, like my wife and I, 
last night, we're out on a walk 

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and like talking through things 
and it's like it's, it's, it's 

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just challenging to do the thing
because it's about money and our

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possessions and stuff. 
Which Which is exactly, I think,

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just a name. 
It's exactly what I hope happens

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after a challenging sermon, 
right? 

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So when like, it's good that 
it's good that things are 

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challenging, it's good that 
they're difficult. 

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It's good it's that it's hard to
walk out and, and it's good that

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you're feeling it because it 
means that you're really 

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actually wrestling with it. 
Like if we preached, if I, if I 

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got up there and I preached, you
know, on the a passage exactly 

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like this, you know, difficult 
not to understand, but difficult

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to actually live out. 
And then people like, well, 

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that's easy. 
That was a simple, you know, 

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simple thing, simple message. 
Like I, I would have felt like 

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I've failed. 
So I think it's good, like it's 

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good to feel it because 
honestly, I think that means 

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you're taking it seriously. 
So to anybody out there who's 

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also feeling it, be like walking
away from that sermon. 

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Or, you know, you can go back 
and reread Luke 12 and we're 

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talking about, we're talking 
about not being anxious for the 

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things that you need, not even 
the things that you want, but 

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like food and clothing and 
shelter, like the actual real 

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need needs of life and just says
don't be anxious about it. 

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Like your heavenly Father knows 
that you need them and he wants 

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to give you these things. 
So don't chase after them, chase

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after the Kingdom and let me 
worry about the rest of it. 

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But it's like you said, it's, 
it's maybe easy to understand 

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the thing. 
It's a lot harder to actually 

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live it out. 
And that's what I was trying to 

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press into. 
When you know, when you when you

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kind of unpack this parable of 
the land owner who's really 

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successful and then who makes, 
you know, he makes a whole lot 

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of money quote like I'm using 
air quotes here like money. 

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But he has a lot of material 
possessions in the day, mostly 

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food, right? 
And So what does he do? 

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He, you know, he thinks to 
himself, I'm going to knock down

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the barns that I have. 
I'm going to build bigger barns 

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and I'm going to store away 
more. 

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I've been really successful. 
And I think the the danger of a 

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parable like that is that you 
like characterize this 

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individual and you make him out 
to be a villain. 

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You make him out to be well, you
start to make assumptions. 

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He must have been profiting by 
being unethical. 

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He must be an evil person. 
He must be one who is harsh 

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toward his workers. 
He must be one who's profiting 

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on on the backs of of others. 
He must be profiting to the 

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degree that others are losing 
and suffering. 

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And Jesus offers none of that in
the parable. 

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The hard part is that he's he 
just seems like a reasonable 

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guy. 
And we could, yeah, we could 

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make lots of assumptions that 
that Jesus doesn't give us. 

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But. 
But I think, yeah, if you go 

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with just, you know, Occam's 
razor, the most logical solution

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here is that, yeah, he was just 
someone who's like, I've got too

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much stuff. 
I need more stuff for my stuff. 

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Yeah. 
You know, and like that, that 

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tracks in our, in our, in in our
world. 

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I feel like that is, you know, 
not an uncommon thing. 

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I I need you know, to make a do 
a renovation on my house so that

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I can fit more or whatever, 
right? 

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Like. 
So you, I don't have a tablet or

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phone with me here, but can you 
look something up? 

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So absolutely there is a stat 
that floats around on how much 

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storage there is. 
And I don't know, I can't 

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remember if it's in the States 
or if it's in North America, but

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like how much storage space 
there is per like human being. 

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And it's kind of wild how we've 
created an entire industry to 

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store away things that we don't 
have space for in our house, 

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where we also store away things 
wherever that is, right? 

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Whether it's our, our house, 
whether it's an apartment or 

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the, you know, whatever place 
we're choosing to live at 

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whatever given time. 
In my mind, like those like 

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storage facilities, those are 
meant for like when I'm moving. 

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I, I, that's the only time I've 
ever used one. 

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I was moving. 
We had like a two months like 

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like period where we had stuff 
in, in a storage thing. 

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But people like, sometimes 
people like they have just 

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permanent residents, not like 
they're not living in them, but 

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like their, their stuff is 
permanently residing there. 

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Yeah. 
Like, and that's where you get 

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like those cheesy shows where 
they like, you know, just sell 

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off the sell all the stuff cause
like they're in arrears and yeah

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and yeah. 
You might not be able to find 

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it. 
You might be able to find it. 

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I think it is kind of wild to me
how much industry is built 

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around even, yeah, storing up of
things that we don't need, that 

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we've maybe even forgotten that 
we have. 

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I'm getting an AI overview that 
basically says and, and so I 

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take this with a grain of salt, 
but it might be relatively true 

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is that it's so around 6.3 
square feet in the US per person

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of storage. 
And that's like far and away 

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larger than any other part of 
the world. 

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Because if you even go to even 
go to like the, the UK, they 

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don't value space in the same 
way that that North Americans 

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tend to like the thought of 
having like, I have a finished 

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basement. 
The thought of like like having 

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a a hangout area or potentially 
even like a living area like 

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where someone would sleep in a 
basement is like often a foreign

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concept. 
Even grass right? 

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Like the idea of of the lot 
distribution is different SO36 

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square feet. 
More than six square feet per 

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person. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So like that's like take a step 
and then turn and take 1/2 step,

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Hmm. 
In the, in the 90° angle. 

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And that's kind of like roughly 
the amount per person. 

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Yeah, per individual. 
Yeah. 

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Which is wild to me. 
Yeah. 

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So that's just a random fact for
your, you know, your morning. 

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Listen on the Sunday sit down 
that there's the fact that you 

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can you can put away and you 
know never need to know again. 

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So, so one of the, yeah, as 
we've said, like this whole, 

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this whole passage is, I think 
fairly fairly easy to understand

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the implication, but much harder
to do because I think we can 

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automatically go to the 
questions of like the extreme 

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like, well, it's like, well, I 
don't have what that billionaire

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has. 
Like I'm not hoarding wealth 

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like them. 
I'm not, I'm not doing this or, 

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you know, for, for different 
like lower income brackets. 

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It's like, well, I will never 
attain any level of, of that, 

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you know, that type of greed or 
whatever because it's not 

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possible for me. 
But, but I, I think one thing 

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that you sort of cut 2 was like 
whether you are very well off in

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your life and you've had a 
successful career or whether you

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have very little. 
The heart is really where we 

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need to look at in terms of 
understanding what is going on 

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for us. 
Because you've seen contentment 

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with people who are very little 
and exceeding generosity with 

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those who have very much right. 
And, and some of those 

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conversations are complex. 
But so, so I think we end up 

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like asking ourselves like a lot
of a lot of questions that that 

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are like particulars, like the 
question that we were asking 

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that I know that I was asking 
when we were like doing sermon 

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prep last week was OK. 
So like, are my retirement 

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savings is that, is that sin? 
You know, and like, that's where

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we want to go right away. 
Yeah. 

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And, and it's like Jesus, I feel
like I, I feel like Jesus would 

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be asking the same questions. 
I'm like, look, I'm not your 

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accountant like. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I'm more like
interested in what's going on in

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here, you know, and, and. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, I think there's. 
So there's there's a lot there. 

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The just to to comment on the 
first thing that you said. 

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I think the natural one of our 
natural human inclinations is to

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do that like, well, what about 
what about this person or what 

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about that person? 
What about the billionaire has 

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like, I don't have that much or 
we go immediately to comparison 

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where there's just this yeah, 
yeah, this this tendency to say,

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well, I'm not as bad as so 
therefore I must be good. 

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Like I'm. 
For justification purposes. 

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Yeah, and you go, well, I'm not 
as bad as that person. 

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I'm not as bad as that family, 
you know, that couple and how 

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they spend money is far worse. 
Or nobody should be allowed to 

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have a billion dollars and it it
just all it does, is it it it 

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avoids accountability in your 
own life because you get to feel

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good that you're not as bad as 
somebody else, right. 

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So I think as soon as you know, 
if, if that's the inclination in

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your heart, is it gonna say, 
well, at least I'm not as bad as

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like that already. 
It should be. 

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I think should be pointing you 
towards something going on 

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inside of you or to say, well, 
you know, there are billionaires

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that exist out there. 
We should like there's 

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billionaire shouldn't be allowed
to exist. 

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Sure, fair make that argument, 
but that, you know, that's no 

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reason for you to be any 
different with your own time and

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money and resources, right? 
Yeah, You know, the their 

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existence shouldn't it doesn't 
doesn't give you justification 

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to do whatever you want, which I
think sometimes we want to like 

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we want to say, well, you know, 
there's enough food to feed 

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everybody. 
It's just a distribution issue. 

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So I'm not going to do anything 
about it, right. 

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Or, you know, there's enough 
money for everybody in the world

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to be, you know, to live some 
level of of lifestyle. 

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So, you know, why should I be 
the one to give anything away? 

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It should be the people with 
more and and I go, yeah, OK, 

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true. 
It should be. 

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And it should also be you like 
there. 

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It's it's tough to, I think. 
Do you start to make that 

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argument? 
Whenever you start to make that 

223
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argument, I think I know you 
know, it's, it's often from a 

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00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:23,110
place of I don't really want to 
do what I'm feeling convicted to

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00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,430
do, so I'm going to make other 
people worse than I am so that I

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,370
can be OK with where I'm at. 
And it's like we need to have, 

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00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:31,880
we need to have two different 
conversations. 

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00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:34,450
There is a, there is a 
conversation to be had about 

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like, hey, let's talk about the 
ethics of, of like, you know, 

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00:12:39,450 --> 00:12:42,740
say food inequity and say like, 
well, you know, like around the 

231
00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:45,020
world, there is enough to go 
around and like there are, there

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00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:46,800
are barriers and systemic 
issues. 

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00:12:46,810 --> 00:12:49,380
And like, let's talk about the 
ethics of all of these things 

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00:12:49,390 --> 00:12:52,380
and geopolitics. 
And like that is that's a very 

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00:12:52,390 --> 00:12:54,780
different conversation. 
That's it's very interesting to 

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00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:56,140
have. 
It's great to talk about, you 

237
00:12:56,150 --> 00:13:00,280
know, it's great to talk about 
the ethics of billionaires, but 

238
00:13:00,290 --> 00:13:05,370
it's, it's removed from again of
it. 

239
00:13:05,380 --> 00:13:08,570
It avoids talking about our 
hearts and what's going on for 

240
00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:11,710
me personally. 
And that if I am, you know, if I

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00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,750
make X amount of dollars and I'm
willing to be just completely 

242
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,390
unaccountable for any of it, 
that's a me problem, not a, a 

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00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,920
global food source. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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00:13:24,930 --> 00:13:26,090
Like. 
Absolutely. 

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00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,510
And, and so like I named this on
Sunday, but I feel like it's 

246
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,860
helpful to name again, Jesus 
actually presses on that point 

247
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:35,510
right where, you know, he so 
this younger brother. 

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00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,050
And, and we're assuming that, 
but, you know, I think 

249
00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:41,970
commentators and theologians 
would agree that's a fairly safe

250
00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:44,130
assumption. 
The older brother is probably 

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00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:48,610
not going to be the one coming 
to Jesus to say, like, make my 

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00:13:48,620 --> 00:13:51,940
younger brother share the 
distribute, like, you know, 

253
00:13:51,950 --> 00:13:54,450
divide the, the inheritance 
equally or differently. 

254
00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:56,390
Like that's not just not a 
scenario that would happen. 

255
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:58,620
So younger brother comes to 
Jesus. 

256
00:13:58,850 --> 00:14:02,010
Jesus doesn't say, yeah, you 
know what, you're right. 

257
00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:04,400
Your older brother shouldn't 
have that much money. 

258
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:07,090
He should share it. 
I mean equivalent to to saying, 

259
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:09,280
yeah, you know what, those 
billionaires shouldn't exist. 

260
00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:11,620
They should share. 
It just doesn't do that. 

261
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,400
What he says is you're you're 
both being driven by 

262
00:14:15,410 --> 00:14:17,100
covetousness. 
You're both being driven by 

263
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:20,900
greed and envy. 
So greed for the things that you

264
00:14:20,950 --> 00:14:27,380
want and don't have and think 
you are maybe even owed or do. 

265
00:14:27,390 --> 00:14:32,450
But again, don't have envy to 
look at what somebody else has 

266
00:14:32,460 --> 00:14:35,640
and to say, you know, in a in an
unhealthy way. 

267
00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:41,270
I want that to the degree that 
you're saying, you know, I 

268
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,900
deserve what you have, right? 
So I think it's helpful just to 

269
00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:50,010
flesh those things out. 
But Jesus doesn't play either 

270
00:14:50,020 --> 00:14:50,830
game. 
Yeah, right. 

271
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,740
It doesn't say to this, this 
younger brother. 

272
00:14:52,750 --> 00:14:53,340
Yeah. 
You know what? 

273
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:55,530
You're right. 
You, you you should be given a 

274
00:14:55,540 --> 00:14:58,230
little bit more and things 
should be fair quote, right. 

275
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,310
Or he he doesn't say. 
Yeah. 

276
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,450
You know what the older brother 
should give you more than what 

277
00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:08,750
you have. 
He also doesn't say, you know, 

278
00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:12,830
tough luck. 
Yeah, you know, this is what the

279
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,940
law says. 
So just do the thing. 

280
00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:18,840
He cuts, like you said, he cuts 
to the heart of the issue, which

281
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:22,950
is both of their creeds. 
And that's, like, brilliant 

282
00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:24,800
quote. 
And I brought Fred Craddock's 

283
00:15:24,810 --> 00:15:28,040
commentary where he says, like, 
who? 

284
00:15:28,570 --> 00:15:32,090
Who can decide? 
You know, who can decide whose 

285
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,130
greed is is better or worse, 
right? 

286
00:15:35,140 --> 00:15:37,150
Like, that's the line. 
Yeah. 

287
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,730
So. 
So he's got this great take on 

288
00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:43,910
on Jesus. 
He's like Jesus is asked to be a

289
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,530
referee and he refuses. 
After all, who can judge whose 

290
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:51,790
greed is right? 
And so, you know, I think we sit

291
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,110
here and go, yeah, OK, should 
there be a conversation around, 

292
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,310
yeah, food distribution, the 
wealth that exists in the world,

293
00:16:02,380 --> 00:16:05,130
how we've made a mess of it? 
Yes, definitely. 

294
00:16:05,140 --> 00:16:07,850
At some point in some way, 
absolutely. 

295
00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:10,270
But that's not what Jesus is 
saying here. 

296
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,750
He calls both of it greed. 
Whether you have much or have 

297
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,090
little, we're all capable of 
greed and of envy and 

298
00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:21,910
covetousness to kind of sum all 
of that up and a way of being. 

299
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,050
So I think then the question 
becomes, I think you're going to

300
00:16:25,060 --> 00:16:27,000
take us there. 
The question becomes, OK, yeah. 

301
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,030
So what? 
What do you do with it? 

302
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:33,140
And so, yeah, the, the, the 
question that I, I think we 

303
00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:39,220
should all be asking is simply 
what is enough? 

304
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,550
What is enough? 
And, and I think that there's a 

305
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,110
lot of different directions you 
could go in that. 

306
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,310
I have sort of like a, I'm not 
gonna ask this yet because it's 

307
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,450
sort of like a follow up from, 
from the question of what is 

308
00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:53,460
enough. 
But just like, what's the first 

309
00:16:53,470 --> 00:16:56,290
thing that comes to mind when 
when I ask that question? 

310
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,730
So OK two, I want to tell two 
stories. 

311
00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:03,870
Number one, I heard a pastor in 
the States named Brian Loretz 

312
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:10,560
preach a sermon on, on this 
topic of enough and what is 

313
00:17:10,569 --> 00:17:15,000
enough. 
And, you know, my, my wife and I

314
00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:16,420
walked away from that hearing 
that. 

315
00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:18,640
And it was at the Global 
Leadership Summit one year. 

316
00:17:19,310 --> 00:17:22,300
We walked away from that really 
wrestling out for ourselves, OK,

317
00:17:22,310 --> 00:17:25,420
what will be enough? 
And so he tells the story where 

318
00:17:25,430 --> 00:17:27,720
he planted a church in early on,
he, you know, was making 

319
00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:29,570
peanuts. 
And then the church started to 

320
00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:33,920
grow and the board in their 
constitution and their makeup, 

321
00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:35,790
the board got together and said,
OK, we're going to give him a 

322
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,660
raise. 
And so they gave him a raise and

323
00:17:37,670 --> 00:17:40,610
he accepted that ways and then 
the church continued to grow. 

324
00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:42,930
And so a few years later he got 
another raise and a few years 

325
00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:45,950
later the same thing. 
So trajectory over, you know, a,

326
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,770
a chunk of career was that his 
income was increasing as the 

327
00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:51,980
church was growing and as his 
responsibility was increasing 

328
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:55,830
and etcetera. 
So all that was happening and he

329
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,850
tells his story of having to sit
down with his wife and decide 

330
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,030
like, are we going? 
Are we going to is it right for 

331
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,430
us to take this? 
A, is it right for us to take 

332
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,860
this raise? 
B Like what are we going to do? 

333
00:18:07,870 --> 00:18:10,280
Like is this, are we going to, 
we're just going to commit 

334
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:13,840
ourselves to this endless 
pursuit of increase, right? 

335
00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:17,820
Like are we content just 
allowing this to happen and 

336
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:22,300
allowing ourselves to raise, you
know, raise our lifestyle with 

337
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:24,800
the income, household income 
increase? 

338
00:18:25,050 --> 00:18:29,400
Or are we going to choose and 
commit to be different about how

339
00:18:29,410 --> 00:18:31,240
we use it? 
And So what they came up, what 

340
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:33,700
they decided was that they're 
going to take the increase. 

341
00:18:33,710 --> 00:18:36,120
Like they're gonna they're, 
they're going to use the 

342
00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:41,860
increase or, or like accept it, 
I think could be the word he 

343
00:18:41,870 --> 00:18:44,070
used. 
But they are going to decide as 

344
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,360
a family what is enough. 
And anything that they make as a

345
00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:51,410
household, she's like, you know,
she was working, he was working.

346
00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:53,700
Anything they make as a 
household over that enough, 

347
00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:55,310
they're gonna give away. 
Hmm. 

348
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:57,310
So some of it they're gonna tie 
back to the church. 

349
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,140
Some of they're gonna give to 
mission organizations and 

350
00:18:59,150 --> 00:19:00,980
partners. 
And they're just gonna then with

351
00:19:00,990 --> 00:19:03,980
the recipe generous with it. 
But for them, it was a conscious

352
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:07,540
decision of saying, OK, this is 
what enough looks like for us as

353
00:19:07,550 --> 00:19:11,100
a family and we're going to 
choose to not accidentally 

354
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:12,980
increase enough because I think 
that's what happened. 

355
00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:14,880
So I walked away really 
convicted about that. 

356
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,090
And this was like a decade ago 
almost now that probably 

357
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,180
honestly around the same time 
that if you're in the sermon on 

358
00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:22,700
Sunday, around the same time 
that we started doing these 

359
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:26,140
crazy experiments like eating 
all the food in our house until 

360
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:28,210
we, you know, until buying 
anything else because we, like, 

361
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:31,020
we were convicted as a couple. 
OK, how are we gonna be? 

362
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:34,240
And figuring out, like to decide
and determine and discern what 

363
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:36,240
is enough is a really hard thing
to do. 

364
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:39,930
So, you know, what we decided 
was we've got to figure out what

365
00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:42,900
enough is. 
And enough should probably, 

366
00:19:42,910 --> 00:19:44,640
like, feel a little bit 
uncomfortable. 

367
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:46,340
Like it shouldn't feel like 
cushy. 

368
00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:49,520
It shouldn't feel safe. 
It shouldn't feel like we can do

369
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:51,550
everything we want and buy 
everything we want. 

370
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,270
And not have to ask any 
questions and not have any hard 

371
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,870
conversations and we can go on 
whatever vacation we wanna go on

372
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,390
like that I think would be many 
people's definition of enough. 

373
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:05,360
And So what what Brian Lauritz 
and that story really revealed 

374
00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:10,130
to us was, OK, you've got to 
fight the urge to just allow 

375
00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:14,510
your your lifestyle to increase 
with your household income 

376
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,130
because that's like, it's like, 
what's the science experiment? 

377
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:18,370
I don't think it's a science 
experiment. 

378
00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:19,770
This would be a terrible science
experiment. 

379
00:20:19,780 --> 00:20:23,460
But like boiling frogs never 
like jump out of the pot. 

380
00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:25,840
Like if you put them in when the
water's cold and then you put 

381
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:28,760
the pot on and they boil, like 
they will stay in the pot and 

382
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:32,200
die because they don't register 
the temperature, like the slow 

383
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:34,450
temperature rise. 
That's a horrible science 

384
00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:36,800
experiment. 
Please nobody do that science 

385
00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:39,100
experiment. 
But if you were to like toss a 

386
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:41,920
frog into boiling water, 
apparently they like they jump 

387
00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:44,640
out because you know, they know 
this is this is going to kill 

388
00:20:44,650 --> 00:20:47,140
me. 
And I think that our like our 

389
00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:55,630
tolerance for enough or for like
it's changes slowly as we age, 

390
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,550
you know, for for many people. 
And I would say that like the 

391
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,600
caveat here is, you know, 
obviously always are exceptions 

392
00:21:02,610 --> 00:21:06,960
to these kind of general 
analogies and statements. 

393
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:11,580
But typically as a household, 
let's say your income is gonna 

394
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:17,100
increase over, you know, from 
your, let's say early 20s to 

395
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:20,160
fifties, right? 
The assumption is your income is

396
00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:22,850
going to increase and as. 
You further your career as 

397
00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:27,620
you're like the, the I think I'm
thinking about like the, the 

398
00:21:27,630 --> 00:21:31,100
common trajectory for a lot of 
people, not everyone, but but 

399
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:33,320
like that, that is usually you 
starting your career and you 

400
00:21:33,330 --> 00:21:35,260
build and build and build. 
And by the time you have 50s, 

401
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:37,640
you kind of you're at your, your
pinnacle, right? 

402
00:21:37,650 --> 00:21:40,360
Yeah. 
So what happens with that 

403
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:42,680
trajectory is that your 
lifestyle changes. 

404
00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:45,890
You start to buy more things, 
live in a bigger house, you move

405
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,430
houses, buy nicer things, you go
out to eat more, maybe go on a 

406
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,030
vacation, maybe go on another 
vacation. 

407
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:57,870
Like your lifestyle increases, 
uh, often at the rate of your 

408
00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:00,520
career trajectory. 
Now, what also happens is your 

409
00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:02,430
lifestyle increases too fast, 
right? 

410
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,930
Yeah. 
But what can equally happen, 

411
00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:08,310
what the equally possibility is 
to say we're not gonna allow our

412
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,510
lifestyle to increase at that 
rate. 

413
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,190
We're not going to allow 
ourselves to become boiling 

414
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,530
frogs. 
Like we're going to actually 

415
00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:18,070
choose to step out of that and 
be different toward our money 

416
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,530
and toward our generosity with 
others, with the church, with, 

417
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,970
you know, what God is doing in 
the world. 

418
00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:25,490
And that takes a conscious 
choice. 

419
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:30,010
So I walked away from that, that
leadership summit thinking to 

420
00:22:30,020 --> 00:22:33,680
myself, hey, how like, OK, what 
do we need to do in order to 

421
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:36,620
determine and then commit to 
enough? 

422
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:38,010
And we're still trying to figure
it out. 

423
00:22:38,050 --> 00:22:39,790
So you start to have kids and 
you like your Bills. 

424
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,880
And anyways, like it's a hard, 
but it needs to be this constant

425
00:22:42,890 --> 00:22:45,740
conversation of what will be 
enough. 

426
00:22:45,790 --> 00:22:48,860
Now, on the flip side of it, I 
brought Craddock in because I 

427
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:51,920
want to read another line that 
we were batting around in the 

428
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:53,570
sermon prep, I think after the 
sermon. 

429
00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:55,520
So we were having this 
conversation, sermon prep and 

430
00:22:55,530 --> 00:22:57,760
Alison was texting, texting 
afterward. 

431
00:22:57,770 --> 00:23:02,940
And I sent this quote to you and
to Allison and let me find it 

432
00:23:03,010 --> 00:23:07,740
because I think that this is 
this is actually harder for us 

433
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:12,000
to grasp than just simply saying
determine for yourself what is 

434
00:23:12,010 --> 00:23:14,400
enough and then give everything 
else away. 

435
00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:17,580
That would be a fantastic start 
if everybody would that be so 

436
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:19,880
easy, But it's too easy. 
That's the thing. 

437
00:23:19,890 --> 00:23:22,100
Because if I get to determine 
what is enough then here. 

438
00:23:22,110 --> 00:23:24,220
OK, so while you're looking it 
up, like man, like what are 

439
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:26,620
gifts? 
Craddocks commentary has been 

440
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:30,360
like, he's just like, so such a 
sharp mind and yeah. 

441
00:23:30,430 --> 00:23:31,660
Yeah. 
And like Preacher, right? 

442
00:23:31,670 --> 00:23:33,080
So, yeah, that's why I really 
appreciate it. 

443
00:23:33,170 --> 00:23:35,220
He's got these lines. 
He's like the preacher should be

444
00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:37,880
careful to not do this. 
I'm like, thank you, Fred. 

445
00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:39,600
OK, good deal. 
I won't do that. 

446
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:43,620
So he says this. 
So he's talking about anxiety. 

447
00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:46,180
And I think this is gonna be a 
helpful chunk because one of the

448
00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:50,100
questions that I think one could
have walking away from a sermon 

449
00:23:50,110 --> 00:23:52,540
like that and from a passage 
like this is OK. 

450
00:23:52,550 --> 00:23:57,470
Well, is all anxiety just 
anxiety about material 

451
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,140
possessions, wealth, money and 
things Like what about general 

452
00:24:00,150 --> 00:24:02,860
anxiety disorders? 
What about like clinically 

453
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:07,330
diagnosed anxiety? 
What about the stuff that I, you

454
00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:12,670
know, that that creeps in? 
Like, is it all like it just 

455
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,830
says, don't be anxious? 
Like, can I just turn it off 

456
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,210
like a faucet? 
Like what's going on? 

457
00:24:16,220 --> 00:24:18,610
So here's this is helpful. 
He says the second theme in the 

458
00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:21,030
unit on possessions concerns 
anxiety. 

459
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,750
And then he says the injunction 
against anxiety is not a general

460
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,010
one. 
It's not against all anxieties. 

461
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,550
And if I have, I don't regret, 
try not to have regrets after 

462
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,840
preaching because like I believe
that the preaching moment is 

463
00:24:30,850 --> 00:24:34,010
what it is because the Holy 
Spirit allows it to be so like, 

464
00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:37,360
I'm not gonna regret something. 
But I think if I were to preach 

465
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:39,950
this again in a different way, 
this would be a line that I 

466
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,910
would have included, right? 
That it's not an injunction. 

467
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,190
Jesus isn't speaking against all
kinds of anxiety, general 

468
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,050
anxiety, all as a whole. 
He's speaking against a very 

469
00:24:50,060 --> 00:24:52,210
specific anxiety. 
And then credit goes on to say, 

470
00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:55,270
because sometimes actually 
anxiety is positive in the New 

471
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,150
Testament. 
So Paul's got this positive 

472
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,870
regard and care for the church. 
So you see that in second 

473
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,860
Corinthians, Timothy has it 
right, Timothy's anxiety for the

474
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:11,030
welfare of the the Philippians, 
like the same word is used 

475
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,530
positively to be like this 
positive concern and worry about

476
00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:17,710
a people that you care deeply 
for, right? 

477
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,510
And your, your desire for them 
to experience life and fullness 

478
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,980
of life and to not live into sin
patterns and habits that are 

479
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:26,940
destroying them. 
And so there's a, there's 

480
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:29,380
actually a positive anxiety in 
the New Testament. 

481
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,090
So that's, that's number one. 
And then #2 I think it's, it's 

482
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:37,390
not just this general, it's did 
Jesus not saying this will cure 

483
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,030
all of your anxiety about 
everything all the time. 

484
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,410
And it's not a physiological 
kind of anxiety cause like 

485
00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:46,750
anxiety is, is generally just a 
response a, you know, to stimuli

486
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,800
that we don't like or that is, 
you know, sometimes it can be 

487
00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:51,230
positive, sometimes negative. 
Yeah. 

488
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,670
And and so like telling, telling
someone with a generalized 

489
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,160
anxiety, don't be anxious is 
like, you know, when you tell, 

490
00:25:59,170 --> 00:26:03,220
you know, when you tell someone 
you know, like oht just like 

491
00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:05,660
don't worry about it. 
Like don't like, yeah, like just

492
00:26:05,670 --> 00:26:07,260
don't stress about it. 
It's like, well, I can't. 

493
00:26:07,270 --> 00:26:08,840
I can't help it. 
Yeah, exactly. 

494
00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:11,200
So, you know, I think if you're 
out there wrestling with with 

495
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:14,640
anxiety, it's, it's you need to 
figure out the root cause. 

496
00:26:14,650 --> 00:26:16,580
And that's going to happen, I 
think with pastors, I think it's

497
00:26:16,590 --> 00:26:20,460
going to happen with therapists 
and with friends, like deep, 

498
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:23,740
meaningful friendships, people 
who know you and who have known 

499
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:27,040
you for a long time and know you
in a very meaningful and 

500
00:26:27,050 --> 00:26:29,900
significant way. 
Like there are lots of routes to

501
00:26:29,950 --> 00:26:33,040
to uncovering like the root 
causes of anxiety for sure. 

502
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:35,160
I think for a lot of people, 
root cause of anxiety is 

503
00:26:35,170 --> 00:26:38,070
actually what she is talking 
about though, which is safety 

504
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,080
and security. 
Yeah, yeah. 

505
00:26:40,090 --> 00:26:42,300
That's a core longing that human
beings have. 

506
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:45,980
Now you might have issue with 
safety and security because you 

507
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:50,000
didn't receive it as a child, 
which is a whole lot different 

508
00:26:50,010 --> 00:26:52,430
of a conversation to have. 
Then if you have safety and 

509
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,960
security issues that are, you 
know, primarily related around 

510
00:26:56,110 --> 00:26:59,660
money and, and things like the 
money and things is actually 

511
00:26:59,670 --> 00:27:03,770
just, I think a, an outpouring 
of the like craving after safety

512
00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:09,500
and security, the root cause of 
your safety and security stuff. 

513
00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:13,930
That's what you got to uncover. 
And so at any rate, I think safe

514
00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:16,660
to say, you know, anxiety can 
actually be positive in the New 

515
00:27:16,670 --> 00:27:18,220
Testament. 
And Jesus isn't speaking against

516
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:20,580
all anxiety for all time. 
He's speaking against a very 

517
00:27:20,590 --> 00:27:23,720
specific anxiety. 
So credit goes on, and he says 

518
00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:26,140
this. 
Here the issue is preoccupation 

519
00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:28,830
with material things. 
And then he says everyone, of 

520
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,950
course protests that he or she 
only wants enough. 

521
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:35,800
But here's what I want people to
hear. 

522
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,950
But no one knows how much is 
enough until one has too much. 

523
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:45,680
Hmm. 
So that so I, I texted that to 

524
00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:48,340
to you and to Allison. 
And I think the response, one of

525
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:52,620
the responses that came back was
literally like, so is there ever

526
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:58,500
an quote enough or as soon as 
you have enough, do you really 

527
00:27:58,510 --> 00:28:03,080
have too much? 
To which I responded, I want it 

528
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:10,600
to be the former. 
I want it to be that no, there 

529
00:28:10,610 --> 00:28:13,110
really isn't enough that you can
discover and figure out. 

530
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:18,990
Which tells me it's the latter. 
Yeah, that really like what I 

531
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,850
want. 
I want for there to be an quote 

532
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:28,010
enough that I can attain and 
feel comfortably, which tells me

533
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,340
that as soon as you have too 
much, it really actually or as 

534
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:36,280
soon as you have quote enough, 
it really is too much So, so 

535
00:28:36,290 --> 00:28:41,910
it's like it's a luxury to be 
able to say I have enough. 

536
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,840
So, so if you're asking the 
question, that might be a sign 

537
00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:50,410
in and of itself, like, yeah. 
I think if you can answer the 

538
00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:55,110
question, yes, I have enough 
that that is the answer right? 

539
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,860
That maybe like. 
So here's here's what I have 

540
00:28:57,870 --> 00:29:00,550
come to about this, because I 
think it's actually just 

541
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,150
semantics. 
I think it entirely comes down 

542
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,240
to who we allow to define our 
enough. 

543
00:29:10,370 --> 00:29:13,900
So if I get to be the one who 
defines what is enough for me, 

544
00:29:14,110 --> 00:29:17,340
then right away, too much, 
right? 

545
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:18,960
Probably too much. 
I'm going to err on the side of 

546
00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:21,680
too much. 
And I know that to be true. 

547
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:25,260
And I think people, if you like,
really sit with your own 

548
00:29:25,270 --> 00:29:30,280
thoughts and wants, you people 
realize like, yeah, I I fall 

549
00:29:30,290 --> 00:29:32,880
into that category. 
Like, if I get to be the one to 

550
00:29:32,890 --> 00:29:35,600
determine what is enough for me,
I'm always going to air on the 

551
00:29:35,610 --> 00:29:37,430
side of too much. 
Now, I know that there are 

552
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,920
exceptions to this, right? 
And I know that there are people

553
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:42,040
like, well, what about, like, 
what about Mother Teresa? 

554
00:29:42,050 --> 00:29:45,420
Or what about, like, what about,
you know, these people who have 

555
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:50,470
given up what looks like an 
entirely worldly material 

556
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,940
possession, tantalized like, 
yes, like there are always gonna

557
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:55,000
be outliers and exceptions. 
But I think it's. 

558
00:29:55,010 --> 00:29:57,740
Probably not you though. 
No, but it's not me, OK? 

559
00:29:57,750 --> 00:30:00,660
I'm not the exception. 
I am not the exception, right? 

560
00:30:00,710 --> 00:30:05,740
So if I get to be the one to 
define enough, then I think I'm 

561
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:07,730
already going to start from a 
selfish standpoint. 

562
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:12,540
I think that's just the nature 
of of humanity and the nature of

563
00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:15,300
sin and depravity. 
Like, I think we tip in that 

564
00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:19,090
direction. 
So do I want to do better? 

565
00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:20,990
Yes, absolutely. 
Right. 

566
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,190
Do I want to shame people for 
also being a little bit selfish?

567
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,050
No, absolutely not. 
Like I think we all want to be 

568
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:28,990
better. 
Yeah, and do better. 

569
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,510
And we're not horrible, terrible
people for having this selfish 

570
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,290
bent. 
We're human. 

571
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,370
So the the question in my mind 
becomes who is defining what is 

572
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:40,830
enough? 
And this is where our 

573
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,950
conversation over preaching prep
went, I think in a pretty cool 

574
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,790
direction. 
And I'm curious to like, yeah, 

575
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,700
flesh this out in longer 
conversations, but what would it

576
00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:51,200
look like? 
And I would just say this and 

577
00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:57,140
and we pulled this idea from 
John Mark Comer's book, 

578
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:01,940
Practicing the Way. 
So he talks about how a group of

579
00:31:01,950 --> 00:31:05,840
families have gotten together. 
And if any one of the families 

580
00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:09,120
is going to make a purchase over
a certain amount of money, like 

581
00:31:09,130 --> 00:31:11,400
over a certain dollar amount, 
they've got to talk to, they've 

582
00:31:11,410 --> 00:31:14,160
got to actually submit it to the
families, the other families. 

583
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:17,350
Which some people in our case. 
So like I, I loved where our 

584
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,470
discussion went with that. 
And by the end I was like, 

585
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,840
that's, that's really cool. 
That seems very counter 

586
00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:28,160
countercultural in the right way
of like, Hey, we're, we're not 

587
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:30,570
going to feed the machine. 
We're gonna actually be in 

588
00:31:30,580 --> 00:31:33,660
dialogue in, in community, in 
harmonization with our with our 

589
00:31:33,670 --> 00:31:34,650
decisions. 
Yeah. 

590
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:38,770
But man, there is such a my, my 
initial reaction, and I think 

591
00:31:38,780 --> 00:31:41,750
for probably a lot of people, 
it's gonna be like that feels so

592
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,350
intrusive. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

593
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,320
That's, it's my private life. 
Yeah, yeah. 

594
00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:47,450
This whole idea though, and this
is not the time for this 

595
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:49,760
conversation, this whole idea of
like a public and private life 

596
00:31:49,770 --> 00:31:53,150
has gotten us into a tremendous 
amount of trouble. 

597
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,770
So much. 
Yeah, right. 

598
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:57,940
Like the privatization or like 
the individualization even of 

599
00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,270
the household, like I'll say 
that. 

600
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,500
So like, I think we live in this
rampant age of individualism and

601
00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:06,180
we're hurting because of it. 
And that we see that in 

602
00:32:06,190 --> 00:32:08,900
individual, like in literally 
like the single person. 

603
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:10,780
Yeah. 
But we also see it in terms of 

604
00:32:10,790 --> 00:32:13,680
family and households. 
Then it becomes an individual 

605
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:15,680
family unit, like an individual 
like. 

606
00:32:15,690 --> 00:32:19,130
So a couple who's married or a 
couple who's married with kids, 

607
00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:23,220
like you still become a singular
unit of whatever that unit is. 

608
00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:27,280
If you're in if you're a solo 
person, you are a singular unit 

609
00:32:27,290 --> 00:32:29,960
of solo personhood of people, 
right? 

610
00:32:30,050 --> 00:32:34,220
If you are a married couple, you
for a single like singular unit 

611
00:32:34,270 --> 00:32:37,160
of married couples. 
If you are a family with kids, 

612
00:32:37,170 --> 00:32:40,380
like you are a singular unit of 
family with kids. 

613
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:44,880
So we view this like ethics and 
morality through the lens 

614
00:32:44,890 --> 00:32:47,620
naturally right now of 
individualism, which is, I 

615
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:51,400
think, incredibly harmful in the
long run. 

616
00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:55,560
So again, that all I'm going to 
say on, on that right now, 

617
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,850
Connie and I have this baby 
version of it, which now feels 

618
00:33:00,860 --> 00:33:05,380
entirely way too safe. 
So we have like, and it has a it

619
00:33:05,390 --> 00:33:09,900
has a, a stupid name, but it's 
like a marital allowance, right?

620
00:33:09,910 --> 00:33:13,480
And so a friend of ours in 
seminary, his, his dad, his 

621
00:33:13,490 --> 00:33:15,810
actually his mom and dad 
together with another couple 

622
00:33:15,820 --> 00:33:17,920
wrote this like marriage prep 
book. 

623
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:21,880
And so it's it's this great two 
parter like series. 

624
00:33:21,890 --> 00:33:24,990
So there's a book that's 
designed for the husband and 

625
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,860
then there's a book that's 
designed for the wife and they 

626
00:33:27,870 --> 00:33:31,340
work that cooperatively, these 
two couples on these books. 

627
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:35,140
And so it's called the most 
important year me in a man's 

628
00:33:35,150 --> 00:33:37,450
life and then the most important
year in a woman's life. 

629
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:41,210
And it's the, it's the 
engagement year leading up to 

630
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,630
the marriage. 
And then the first year of 

631
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,330
marriage is kind of the, you 
know, the, the timeline, but 

632
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,280
they suggested it in that book. 
And so that's one of the books 

633
00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:50,950
that Connie and I worked through
when we were engaged. 

634
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:55,280
The idea is, and it's not rocket
science, there's a fixed amount 

635
00:33:55,290 --> 00:33:58,370
of money that I can spend 
without asking Connie. 

636
00:33:58,410 --> 00:34:00,380
And there's a fixed amount of 
money that Connie can spend 

637
00:34:00,390 --> 00:34:02,810
without asking me. 
And it gives freedom. 

638
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,270
Like it's one of those, it's a 
beautiful example of how 

639
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,270
guardrails good freedom. 
Yeah. 

640
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,570
So I know that if a if a 
purchase is under a certain 

641
00:34:10,580 --> 00:34:14,690
amount, I can make it. 
It might be a dumb purchase at 

642
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:17,830
the end of the day. 
Yeah, but it's not going to 

643
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,810
breach that. 
Like, how are we managing money 

644
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:23,690
together as a couple? 
Like I can't go out and spend 

645
00:34:23,739 --> 00:34:27,170
$700.00 on something that's not 
the benchmark. 

646
00:34:27,179 --> 00:34:30,659
Like it's a lot lower than that.
You know, there were times in 

647
00:34:30,670 --> 00:34:33,020
our in our in our lives when it 
was like 20 bucks. 

648
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:34,679
And then there was a time when 
it was 50 bucks. 

649
00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:36,460
And then there's a time when 
it's 100 bucks and there's a 

650
00:34:36,469 --> 00:34:39,909
time when it's 200 bucks. 
And you can see even in that the

651
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,350
creep of the frog in the boiling
pot. 

652
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,400
Yeah, yeah. 
So it's, you know, I think it's 

653
00:34:47,409 --> 00:34:50,630
that level of commitment. 
So that's between spouses to 

654
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:51,679
say, hey, we're not gonna do 
this. 

655
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:54,060
Like in order to manage money 
together. 

656
00:34:54,070 --> 00:34:56,420
Well, we're gonna commit these 
things to each other. 

657
00:34:56,469 --> 00:35:01,460
It's that, but on steroids where
like households, families, like 

658
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:02,840
if anything's going to cost them
over. 

659
00:35:02,850 --> 00:35:05,200
And I think for John Mark Comer,
I think what he talks about is 

660
00:35:05,210 --> 00:35:08,740
$1000. 
So I'm like, shoot, five years 

661
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:11,900
ago, you couldn't buy like a big
TV without talking to somebody 

662
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:14,140
about it. 
But here's the beauty of it is 

663
00:35:14,430 --> 00:35:17,300
like it allows just to pull it 
all the way back to the 

664
00:35:17,370 --> 00:35:20,750
beginning. 
It allows for somebody else to 

665
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,920
input on your own definition of 
enough. 

666
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:27,640
So if you and I like if, if 
Connie and I and you and Lindsey

667
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:30,950
were to do this and you can 
bleep out your wife's name if 

668
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,520
you wanna bleep it out in the 
podcast because my wife's name 

669
00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:35,180
is Lindsey. 
Right. 

670
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:37,970
Yeah, so fair. 
So if the four of us were to 

671
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:42,570
commit to do this, let's say, 
yeah, that allows and it 

672
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:45,950
incurred what it what it. 
Well, actually what it limits is

673
00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:48,710
it limits Connie and I from 
defining what is enough for us. 

674
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,050
And they do it like for, for, 
you know, for like income, 

675
00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:58,410
salary givings. 
Like what would it look like for

676
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:02,970
the two of us to commit our 
budget like at 20 in 2026 to 

677
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,430
say, OK, Justin and Lindsey, 
here's our here's our household 

678
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,630
budget. 
Here's how much we're gonna 

679
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,680
spend on groceries. 
Like the percentage, here's how 

680
00:36:10,690 --> 00:36:11,860
much we're gonna spend on 
travel. 

681
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:14,440
The percentage here's how much 
we're gonna spend on on 

682
00:36:14,530 --> 00:36:16,200
entertainment. 
The percentage here's what we're

683
00:36:16,210 --> 00:36:18,360
spending on like cell phone and 
Internet and things. 

684
00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:24,180
Anyways, here are all our 
percentages like how does this 

685
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:25,990
look to pray about? 
That yeah, yeah. 

686
00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:27,280
Like is this? 
Reasonable. 

687
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:29,500
Yeah, Yeah. 
Is this acceptable? 

688
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:32,020
Is are we living inside our 
means or outside our means? 

689
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:35,900
Are we like, have we properly 
defined what enough actually is 

690
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:38,220
for us? 
Like have we allotted enough for

691
00:36:38,290 --> 00:36:40,500
our kids and their expenses? 
Have we allotted enough for 

692
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:42,740
food? 
Have we allotted enough for 

693
00:36:42,810 --> 00:36:46,600
housing and, and have we 
allotted too much in areas that 

694
00:36:46,610 --> 00:36:49,090
are unnecessary? 
So I, I think like that's a, 

695
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:53,750
that's a terrifying thing 
because a, it means that we 

696
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,010
actually have to have that much 
work done and which, you know, 

697
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,050
isn't always the case in 
households. 

698
00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:06,590
And but then be to, to be able 
to say, OK, you take it and go 

699
00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:10,150
like with a pen, just cut stuff 
out that doesn't need to be in 

700
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,480
here. 
Like that terrifies. 

701
00:37:12,490 --> 00:37:13,880
I'm getting stressed thinking 
about. 

702
00:37:13,890 --> 00:37:15,910
It but that's the level like I 
anyways. 

703
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,390
I think that's an extreme and I 
don't want to say and extreme as

704
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,810
and you shouldn't do it. 
I think that would be a radical 

705
00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:27,890
thing to do and actually would 
be really healthy to do and it 

706
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:33,130
it I think the challenge becomes
how do you incorporate things 

707
00:37:33,140 --> 00:37:37,370
like that slowly like that would
be an all out all in kind of 

708
00:37:37,700 --> 00:37:40,910
life changing thing and maybe 
somebody out there decides to do

709
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,390
that. 
Fantastic. 

710
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,570
I think probably the first step 
or earlier steps are even like 

711
00:37:47,580 --> 00:37:49,930
within your marriage and 
household. 

712
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,930
Yeah, maybe even about certain 
purchases to say, hey, you know,

713
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:58,910
help us make these decisions. 
They the, the, the. 

714
00:37:58,980 --> 00:38:00,190
And this is the last thing I'll 
say. 

715
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:05,460
The main thing is I think we 
will always struggle if we are 

716
00:38:05,470 --> 00:38:08,180
the ones to define for ourselves
what is enough. 

717
00:38:08,290 --> 00:38:12,300
That's you have to let somebody 
else's critique your enough. 

718
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:15,420
And I think that's one of the. 
Things as as you were talking, I

719
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:20,040
started thinking about like how 
we function as a church in this 

720
00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:23,440
way like there's lots of freedom
and flexibility within our, you 

721
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:26,100
know, annual budget. 
But at the end of the day, that 

722
00:38:26,110 --> 00:38:30,340
the budget is still a community 
effort in many ways. 

723
00:38:30,350 --> 00:38:33,100
Right there we get we get 
volunteer committees that we are

724
00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:36,730
submitting budgets and then we 
vote on the budget when we have 

725
00:38:36,740 --> 00:38:39,510
our annual general meeting. 
And there are there's a time for

726
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,170
questions. 
And sometimes those questions 

727
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:44,330
are pointed questions about why 
we're spending money on XYZ. 

728
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,990
And it's like sometimes it's 
uncomfortable and sometimes 

729
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,080
it's, it's, you know, yeah, it 
can be a little, it can feel a 

730
00:38:52,090 --> 00:38:54,320
little bit intrusive. 
Like, no, that's I we, I 

731
00:38:54,330 --> 00:38:56,990
budgeted that for my ministry 
and I want that for my ministry,

732
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,180
you know, and, you know, like 
churches are not immune from 

733
00:39:01,190 --> 00:39:04,750
these conversations as well. 
And, and I think that it would 

734
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,980
be easy to look at, you know, at
Church of our size and and type 

735
00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:11,840
as as being pretty modest. 
And in many ways we are, right. 

736
00:39:11,930 --> 00:39:14,720
But that doesn't mean that we 
are not susceptible, right? 

737
00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:16,250
Yeah. 
I think the other thing that 

738
00:39:16,260 --> 00:39:17,700
I've found. 
Encouraging over my years in 

739
00:39:17,710 --> 00:39:21,320
ministry is that most often when
somebody arises to point out 

740
00:39:21,330 --> 00:39:25,110
issues with the budget, it's, 
it's in the direction of being 

741
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,840
more generous. 
Yeah. 

742
00:39:27,850 --> 00:39:31,040
Like, yeah, that's when when the
hardest questions come up, it's 

743
00:39:31,050 --> 00:39:35,080
often, why are we spending this 
amount of money on what looks 

744
00:39:35,090 --> 00:39:38,740
like ourselves? 
And how can we be spending more 

745
00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:44,790
money on mission and external 
resourcing and programs? 

746
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,870
Like, you know, I think very 
often that's the discernment of 

747
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:50,130
a group of people is how do we 
be more generous? 

748
00:39:50,140 --> 00:39:52,130
Yeah, actually in recent years I
recall. 

749
00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:57,620
That one of there was one AGM we
had where the one of the 

750
00:39:57,630 --> 00:40:00,250
questions was really about like,
hey, why have we slashed our 

751
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,290
youth ministry budget? 
We should be pouring more into 

752
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,560
our youth. 
And there was a very practical 

753
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:07,040
reason why the budget was 
different from one year to the 

754
00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:09,230
next. 
But it was like it was, it was a

755
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,160
valuable question to ask. 
Yeah. 

756
00:40:11,170 --> 00:40:12,470
You know, so like, that was 
helpful. 

757
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:13,230
That was good. 
Yeah. 

758
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,680
Help us understand the heart 
behind. 

759
00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:16,960
The numbers, yeah. 
And and I think the more we can 

760
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:20,450
do that as individuals and as 
families, households, the better

761
00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:23,870
off will be as well. 
So yeah, that's a daunting 

762
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,260
challenge though. 
Like it's a big change, yeah. 

763
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,920
So maybe. 
Like again, and the answer to 

764
00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:33,610
the question what is enough is 
is never going to be a, you 

765
00:40:33,620 --> 00:40:36,770
know, a hard and fast, you know,
like here's here's the the one 

766
00:40:36,780 --> 00:40:40,170
second or one minute summary of 
of the answer. 

767
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:43,400
But I but I think that you've 
you've tapped into the the heart

768
00:40:43,410 --> 00:40:46,640
behind it by saying like this is
something that we can't answer 

769
00:40:46,650 --> 00:40:49,520
for ourselves, that we were not 
going to be objective enough. 

770
00:40:49,590 --> 00:40:52,880
Yeah, but but I think maybe 
like, and this could be a little

771
00:40:52,890 --> 00:40:56,870
more rapid fire, but like, what 
are some of the warning signs 

772
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:59,180
that we are veering into 
territory that could be 

773
00:40:59,190 --> 00:41:04,730
described as too much? 
Maybe said another way, what are

774
00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:07,380
the warning signs that I am 
living more like the man in 

775
00:41:07,390 --> 00:41:10,140
Jesus parable? 
You know, like that, you see 

776
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:13,890
that the the kind of the posture
of that man and say, am I 

777
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:16,080
mirroring that, you know? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

778
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,430
So. 
I think one of the things that I

779
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,400
find, and again, we didn't go 
down this this in this direction

780
00:41:23,410 --> 00:41:27,600
on the sermon, is the fact that 
he is literally talking about 

781
00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:31,520
destroying something that he has
to replace it with something 

782
00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:38,700
that is the same but bigger. 
Yeah, so that's, you know, for 

783
00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:42,480
for a church also like that's a 
good don't need to go down this 

784
00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:46,360
rabbit, this rabbit trail right 
now, but that's a that's a good 

785
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:50,960
metric. 
Like so are you are you buying 

786
00:41:51,070 --> 00:41:52,900
or are you purchasing? 
Are you accumulating? 

787
00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:57,000
Are you looking for things that 
are simply replacing things that

788
00:41:57,010 --> 00:41:59,980
you already have? 
Like so I think that's that's 

789
00:41:59,990 --> 00:42:04,320
stupid bag analogy actually 
worked in this way. 

790
00:42:04,330 --> 00:42:08,710
Yeah, because, you know, it's a 
perfect example of the fact that

791
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:13,030
I have a perfectly good backpack
that carries the things I need 

792
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,720
for work, like a laptop and a 
water bottle and some books. 

793
00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:21,340
I don't need a different style 
bag to do the same task. 

794
00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:25,500
So that for me is a is a pretty 
good starting point to to 

795
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:28,960
uncover what is a need versus a 
want. 

796
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:32,420
Yeah, you might want something 
and you might be able to justify

797
00:42:32,430 --> 00:42:36,100
it and rationalize the purchase,
but is it a want or a need? 

798
00:42:36,110 --> 00:42:39,930
So name things that are needs 
needs and name things that are 

799
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:40,720
wants. 
Wants. 

800
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:43,340
That's a great thing. 
If you're trying to trick 

801
00:42:43,350 --> 00:42:48,240
yourself into calling a want a 
need, that's a good indication. 

802
00:42:48,830 --> 00:42:50,580
Yeah. 
OK, so that's number one. 

803
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,500
Number two, I look at the amount
of time I spend dwelling on 

804
00:42:54,510 --> 00:42:59,530
something. 
So like this is a, this is a, I 

805
00:42:59,540 --> 00:43:02,330
think in the realm of like 
attention and affection. 

806
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:05,430
So where your attention is, your
affection follows. 

807
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,850
And so I need to think for 
myself about how much time now 

808
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:12,850
I'm going to make good 
decisions. 

809
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:15,890
If I'm going to make a decision,
I want to make a good wise 

810
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:17,610
decision. 
If you're making a big purchase,

811
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:19,230
you want to. 
Research it and make sure you're

812
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:21,130
making the most informed, you 
know? 

813
00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:22,830
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
But. 

814
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,860
But if I'm spending an 
inordinate, inordinate amount of

815
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:31,870
time on wants, that's also 
another red flag. 

816
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:38,040
So, you know, for me for a 
while, like I, I was in 

817
00:43:38,050 --> 00:43:42,060
photography and I worked as a 
photographer for two years while

818
00:43:42,070 --> 00:43:47,160
I was in school. 
And so, you know, I liked buying

819
00:43:47,170 --> 00:43:50,860
camera gear and, and taking good
photos and chasing photos, even 

820
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:55,360
like kind of planning them out. 
But it, there came a time in, in

821
00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:58,960
our life where I needed to sit 
down and realize, yeah, I got, 

822
00:43:59,030 --> 00:44:01,810
I've got a little bit too much 
money invested in these things. 

823
00:44:02,110 --> 00:44:05,680
And we were selling our house at
the time and I sold all my gear.

824
00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:08,350
I sold it all. 
And the amount of mental energy 

825
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,930
that that freed up in terms of 
like, just like thinking about 

826
00:44:10,940 --> 00:44:13,640
things that aren't needs was, 
was pretty cool to see. 

827
00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:17,970
So yeah, look at how much time, 
where's my attention going? 

828
00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:19,830
How much time am I spending 
dwelling on something and 

829
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,490
thinking about it? 
And if it's not, if it's not a 

830
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,290
need, like if if I'm spending 
too much time, like I said on 

831
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:27,430
wants, that's that's a pretty 
good indicator. 

832
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,160
So that's number two. 
And then #3 I think you've got 

833
00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:36,360
to have somebody in your life 
who you can run these things 

834
00:44:36,370 --> 00:44:40,820
past and who will give you a 
very quick, again, rapid fire 

835
00:44:40,830 --> 00:44:42,660
answer. 
Yes, pursue that. 

836
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:46,160
No, don't right. 
For me, that's my wife like it. 

837
00:44:46,170 --> 00:44:50,190
And it I think for me it like it
has to be so I know if I'm 

838
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,720
looking at a purchase and I say 
to her, hey, I'm, I'm 

839
00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:59,080
considering this thing. 
And she says, yeah, you should 

840
00:44:59,090 --> 00:45:01,700
look into it. 
That for me is a green flag. 

841
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:03,660
Like that's like green light. 
Go for it. 

842
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:09,550
Would you say Connie is? 
More would you say she is more 

843
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,970
apprehensive on spending like 
like because you could just go 

844
00:45:13,980 --> 00:45:16,990
knowing that they're gonna 
confirm your bias yeah no yeah 

845
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,810
I. 
Yes, I think so. 

846
00:45:18,820 --> 00:45:22,390
I think she's also. 
I know that she'll say no. 

847
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,550
That's stupid. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

848
00:45:24,610 --> 00:45:26,510
Like Lindsey's the same way for 
me, right? 

849
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:32,130
And I think that, you know, we 
we've we've worked toward 

850
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:36,510
understanding one another's 
habits and patterns over our 

851
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,420
almost 17 years of marriage. 
But still, I mean, I think 

852
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:43,440
regardless, it's, it is an 
ongoing conversation and 

853
00:45:43,450 --> 00:45:47,100
sometimes an ongoing tension to 
to sort of understand one 

854
00:45:47,110 --> 00:45:51,260
another and how you approach 
purchasing and money and wants 

855
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:52,740
and needs. 
Yeah. 

856
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:55,160
So I think. 
To the other thing is that you, 

857
00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:57,920
you need that person in your 
life to be able to say to you 

858
00:45:59,190 --> 00:46:03,060
not only about like an acute 
purchase, but just in general, 

859
00:46:03,070 --> 00:46:05,760
you're spending too much time 
thinking about these things. 

860
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:08,400
Yeah. 
So, like, I think you could, you

861
00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:17,090
could walk away from this and 
actually in some ways covet this

862
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:21,500
whole conversation, like in, in 
a way that's unhealthy, right? 

863
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:28,190
So you go, OK, I'm gonna become 
the best, a spender, non spender

864
00:46:28,260 --> 00:46:30,190
that I can be. 
Like you can actually idolize 

865
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,580
this whole process. 
Like you can turn into like a 

866
00:46:32,590 --> 00:46:35,270
minimalist. 
And it actually like wreck your 

867
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:36,670
life. 
Well, this is the thing I think 

868
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,330
it can. 
Become, I think minimalism is 

869
00:46:38,340 --> 00:46:39,970
good. 
I think there is like a cult of 

870
00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:46,730
minimalism that idealizes the 
lack of stuff as really 

871
00:46:46,740 --> 00:46:49,290
ultimately the same thing, 
right? 

872
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:54,270
So you need somebody who can say
you're still prioritizing the 

873
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,600
wrong thing. 
Yeah, whether it's to access or 

874
00:46:58,610 --> 00:47:03,570
to little like or, or to Yeah. 
So I think that those are the 

875
00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:06,380
three things that I like just at
least off the top of my head 

876
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:09,340
want to look for. 
I think if I were to add a 

877
00:47:09,350 --> 00:47:13,740
fourth in there and you want to 
get a little bit gutsy, print 

878
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:16,900
off all of your bakes bank 
statements for three months and 

879
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:20,900
actually go through and look at 
what you're spending your money 

880
00:47:20,910 --> 00:47:23,480
on. 
And I think that's going to 

881
00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:26,430
reveal to where you know where, 
where things are. 

882
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:30,520
There's, there are, there are 
subscriptions that you can buy 

883
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:36,880
now whose entire purpose or 
purpose is to cancel you from 

884
00:47:36,890 --> 00:47:38,080
your subscriptions. 
Yeah. 

885
00:47:38,090 --> 00:47:42,720
Like you can literally pay a 
monthly fee so that an app goes 

886
00:47:42,730 --> 00:47:47,640
through your banking and and 
your e-mail and unsubscribes you

887
00:47:47,710 --> 00:47:49,980
from paid subscriptions that 
you're not using. 

888
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:52,700
And it's ostensibly. 
Saving you money, but you're 

889
00:47:52,750 --> 00:47:55,430
you're spending money to save 
that money of things that you 

890
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,840
should just remember to cancel 
anyway. 

891
00:47:56,850 --> 00:47:59,840
Mind blowing to me. 
How we've created this 

892
00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:02,670
environment where like we don't 
even know what we're saying. 

893
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,130
So yeah, yeah, those are four. 
And if you know, if you were to 

894
00:48:05,140 --> 00:48:08,070
try one, even one of those four,
I think you're gonna find a 

895
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,800
health on the other side. 
There might be some conflict 

896
00:48:09,810 --> 00:48:12,590
along the way, but you're gonna 
find some health on the other 

897
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,030
side of it. 
And it's gonna start to reveal 

898
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,890
where your heart is. 
And then, OK, last thing that I 

899
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:17,140
want to say because I want to 
get this out. 

900
00:48:17,150 --> 00:48:21,920
I think that ultimately follower
of Jesus, you need to have a 

901
00:48:22,030 --> 00:48:25,440
proper, true, good, right 
understanding of where you are. 

902
00:48:25,830 --> 00:48:28,780
Like you need to understand 
where you are accurately. 

903
00:48:29,070 --> 00:48:32,920
And then you need to commit that
to Jesus and actually take that 

904
00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:37,980
to a place of prayer and say and
allow God to convict you on it, 

905
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:41,280
right? 
Allow a present it to God and 

906
00:48:41,290 --> 00:48:44,710
say, is this like, is this what 
you have for me? 

907
00:48:44,770 --> 00:48:49,060
Is this right MI in line with 
your Kingdom and what you're 

908
00:48:49,070 --> 00:48:51,960
doing? 
And is this, And I think again, 

909
00:48:52,030 --> 00:48:55,770
like I said, the last thing now 
probably too many times, if 

910
00:48:55,780 --> 00:49:00,120
you're not willing to do that, 
that right there is your answer.

911
00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:02,150
Anything that you're not willing
to say. 

912
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,260
Here's what I'm struggling with.
God, like that, That's the 

913
00:49:06,270 --> 00:49:07,530
thing. 
That is the thing. 

914
00:49:07,580 --> 00:49:09,200
Yeah. 
And so it's not to say you're 

915
00:49:09,210 --> 00:49:10,430
gonna struggle. 
It's not to say that you're not 

916
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,680
gonna have things that that 
you're working through and that 

917
00:49:12,690 --> 00:49:15,460
are hard and progress is not 
linear. 

918
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:18,690
You're gonna go up, go down. 
But as soon as you become 

919
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:22,370
unwilling to actually even say 
to God, who knows the thing 

920
00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:26,350
already. 
God, this is the thing, you 

921
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,900
know, I think that again, that's
your answer of of where you're 

922
00:49:28,910 --> 00:49:31,140
at. 
So again, not to shame and not 

923
00:49:31,150 --> 00:49:33,040
to guilt. 
That's not what Jesus is doing. 

924
00:49:33,820 --> 00:49:39,960
But I think what I would say is 
that the more I have found more 

925
00:49:39,970 --> 00:49:44,700
freedom and less anxiety in 
committing finances to God 

926
00:49:44,770 --> 00:49:51,270
together with my wife and in 
community than I have found in 

927
00:49:51,550 --> 00:49:55,130
what would be, quote, having 
more than enough. 

928
00:49:57,230 --> 00:50:00,080
That's that's a great way to to 
look at it. 

929
00:50:00,090 --> 00:50:03,200
And I think it encompasses, you 
know, because one of the 

930
00:50:03,210 --> 00:50:05,610
questions I have that we didn't 
really get to, but I think it 

931
00:50:05,620 --> 00:50:10,800
kind of answers it there is when
we look at needs versus wants 

932
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:15,820
and and obviously wants our 
arguably outside of the the 

933
00:50:15,830 --> 00:50:20,020
barrier of enough right there, 
they are beyond enough, right? 

934
00:50:20,090 --> 00:50:22,740
But I mean, like, you know, like
everyone has hobbies and things 

935
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:24,520
like just spend money on and 
things like that, right? 

936
00:50:24,590 --> 00:50:29,090
But but I think that when we 
when we can ask that question of

937
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:33,500
just saying, like, am I, am I 
able to open handedly submit 

938
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:34,940
this to God? 
Yeah. 

939
00:50:35,370 --> 00:50:37,780
That that sort of solves it for 
me. 

940
00:50:37,830 --> 00:50:40,680
You know, not that it, it's 
going to be an ongoing tension 

941
00:50:40,690 --> 00:50:43,300
for the rest of our lives, but 
it solves the the answer of 

942
00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:46,920
like, how do I, how do I 
approach my my wants and my 

943
00:50:46,970 --> 00:50:48,360
hobbies and things like that? 
Right. 

944
00:50:48,370 --> 00:50:50,700
So that's, that was that's 
that's helpful. 

945
00:50:50,770 --> 00:50:54,360
Yeah, like God's. 
Desires for you to experience an

946
00:50:54,370 --> 00:50:58,020
abundant life. 
We just need to let God define 

947
00:50:58,030 --> 00:50:59,770
what abundance looks like. 
Hmm. 

948
00:50:59,810 --> 00:51:01,900
Right. 
But life to the full actually 

949
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:05,640
means, Yeah, you know, it. 
It's gonna include some things 

950
00:51:05,650 --> 00:51:08,420
that you don't. 
Yes, technically by the letter 

951
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:16,260
of the law, need to survive. 
Uh, but man, like what those, 

952
00:51:16,310 --> 00:51:20,340
what those things contribute in 
terms of life and flourishing of

953
00:51:20,350 --> 00:51:24,780
life for you and those around 
you is, is warrant enough for 

954
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:26,620
the thing. 
So again, just allow other 

955
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:29,670
people and allow God to be the 
one to define those things, and 

956
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,870
you're already going to be light
years ahead of where you were. 

957
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:38,390
That's good. 
Well, why don't we close out 

958
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,550
there? 
And until next time, we hope you

959
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,720
have a great week. 
And we hope that this passage 

960
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:48,490
and this conversation is 
encouraging you to have 

961
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:52,600
conversations with loved ones 
and friends and family as we 

962
00:51:52,670 --> 00:51:56,120
wrestle out how best to do this.
Have a great week.