Hey friends, welcome to another episode of KPC Podcast And we
have made it to Luke Chapter 7, which is a wonderful thing
started into Luke 7:00 on Sunday yesterday.
So yesterday for us recording. It could be any number of days
in the past for you listening to this, but we're happy to be
having another conversation and unpacking some of what some of
what was said on Sunday, some of the questions that have come up
since, which is great. We love hearing the questions
that you have and some of the things obviously that just don't
make it in always to to the sermon.
And some of the stuff that ends up on the cutting room floor,
which I'm sure as a name for a podcast is already taken.
So I don't think we can use that one.
However, that's the idea. Questions from you, questions
that we have as we wrestle these texts out together and some of
the things that don't make it into the message.
Good points that just have to die ahead of the Sunday morning
and then we can revisit into the week again.
We like, we hope that this encourages you and challenges
you. Maybe we can say things a little
bit differently. And these conversations more
than anything, what we hope that you do into your week is
continue to have more conversation as well.
So, you know, be it. Use some of our questions that
we talk about here to prompt your own conversations with
friends and family. However that happens, that's our
intention. So not just simply another
reason for you to listen to our voices.
No, that is the least good reason for the reason for this
to exist. Yeah, that that to hopefully
respond to some questions and to provoke more dialogue and hope.
Provoke. Is it OK word there.
You know, it it provoke. It can be a good thing or maybe
not so good thing. Hopefully a good thing.
Yeah. So, yeah, Luke 7, we've got
these two stories. So this is coming out of Jesus
teaching on the sermon on the plane.
And he's finished this teaching and you know, it says he's
finished these these these sayings.
And then he went to where the people were in Capernaum and
Heels, these two individuals, Um, and I, I thought, you know,
they're two very different stories, but I appreciated the
way that you wove them together and just gave us opportunity for
reflection. And I think that that showed up
in, in conversations I've had with a few folks as well as a
couple questions that, that we got.
Maybe, maybe it's worth reading though, before we, before we do
that. So.
So this is a different version. What do you got?
There I got the NLT going this time.
And OHS man, preach. From the NIV we were eating SV
last week and like why don't I read I can read the first
section. Yeah.
And while you do that, I'm going to pull it.
Up. Great on here.
So again, this is the faith of the Roman officer or the
centurion. When Jesus had finished saying
all this to the people, he returned to Capernaum.
At that time the highly valued slave of a Roman officer was
sick and near death. When the officer heard about
Jesus, he sent some respected Jewish elders to ask him to come
and heal his slave. So they earnestly begged Jesus
to help the man. If anyone deserves your help, he
does, they said, for he loves the Jewish people and even built
a synagogue for us. So Jesus went with them.
But just before they arrived at the house, the officer sent some
friends to say, Lord, don't trouble yourself by coming to my
home, for I am not worthy of such an honor.
I'm not even worthy to come and meet you.
Just say the word from where you are, and my servant will be
healed. I know this because I am under
the authority of my superior officers and I have authority
over my soldiers. I only need to say go and they
go or come and they come. And if I say to my slaves do
this, they do it. When Jesus heard this, he was
amazed. Turning to the crowd that was
following him, he said, I tell you, I haven't seen faith like
this in all Israel. And when the officers friends
returned to his house, they found the slave completely
healed. Soon afterward, Jesus went with
his disciples to the village of Maine, and a large crowd
followed him. A funeral procession was coming
out as he approached the village gate.
The young man who had died was a widow's only son, and a large
crowd from the village was with her.
When the Lord saw her, his heart overflowed with compassion.
Don't cry, he said. Then he walked over to the
coffin and touched it, and the bearers stopped.
Young man, he said, I tell you, get up.
Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk, and Jesus gave
him back to his mother. Great fear swept to the crowd
and they praised God, saying, a mighty prophet has arisen among
us and God has visited his people today.
And the news about Jesus spread throughout Judea and the
surrounding countryside. A couple observations, one for
each story, the for the first story of the centurion.
I think it's fascinating. And I wonder if you have any
thoughts around this When, when Jesus says this and he's like,
I, I have not seen faith like this in all of Israel.
That feels like, I wonder how they heard that.
I wonder how the Israelites would have, would have, would
they be like, like, wow, like way to throw shade at us, Jesus?
Or would they, too, have marveled at his faith?
Yeah, I, I wonder if both, I didn't come across anybody
thinking or talking about that and I, I hadn't thought about it
in that, in that way, so I appreciate it.
I, I wonder if both of those things, like both of those
statements can be true if there's a way in which we read
this and you think, yeah, absolutely the people hearing
would have felt some level of like slight by it or like, what
are you talking about? I do think that there's a
reading of it that like this is very clearly in my mind.
And we, we touched on this on Sunday, but we didn't go too far
down this rabbit hole at that point because it would have been
that like, um, but it's significant that immediately
after the sermon on the plane where Jesus has unveiled so much
of the teaching of the Kingdom of God, he, the first thing he
does is, is respond to a Gentiles faith.
And I do think it's a critique on, on Israel.
I think it's also just Jesus way of like he has a way of just
saying what's true. Yeah.
And so he's unveiled the Kingdom, and he says, hey, it's
gonna be for people who you don't expect.
And people who the world does not expect to be lifted up are
going to be lifted up. And people who the world would
see as small and insignificant are going to be prioritized and
do things that don't make sense, give extra measures of
generosity and money without receiving anything in return,
and like, do things differently. And so I think it's just a
continuation of that for Jesus now to heal someone who's
directly related to a Gentile. Like this is, this is the gospel
beginning to go out to, you know, beyond the people of
Israel. And in many ways, this is Jesus
as the Messiah leading Israel in the charge of like, we're gonna
do the thing that we were created to do.
We're going to bless other nations.
Like through us, they will receive God's blessing.
And so it's this I do think it's like the creep of like the IT
begins and then it explodes. But it's like, OK, here we go.
Jesus is starting to to push the boundary and he just says the
thing that's true. Hey, you know, maybe you thought
that faith was only possible if you were a member of the
covenant. People have got at the time of
the the biblical Israel and Jesus is just saying that's not
true. So yeah, I think people might
have seen that and been like, oh, what does that say about us?
That's like a defensive posture, right?
Like you, you should be listening to that.
If it's like, what does that say about?
It's like, I don't know. I don't know if this is if this
is the same type of analogy or point, but you know, you hear
those stories of sort of jokes, lame kind of lame Christian
jokey things where you're yet like people go into heaven.
They're like, well, like the Presbyterians are surprised that
the Baptists are here, and the Baptists are surprised that the
Methodists are here, and the Methodist surprised.
Looks like, you know, you get that like, kind of corny joke of
a, you know, but a more serious or kind of, I don't know.
Yeah, more serious version of that is, you know, you get
somebody who lives their entire life in the church, does all the
things, does them all well, lives a good life, like
sacrifices. Like I didn't do this.
I didn't do that. I didn't experiment here.
I didn't blow money that way. Like I just, I did the thing.
I did the right thing as much as possible all the way through my
life. You gonna tell me that the dude
who does all the wrong things all the way through his life,
lives it up on his deathbed, accepts Jesus, gets to go to
heaven. You're like, yeah, So, you know,
poor, poor theology of what the Kingdom of God is.
It's not just going to heaven. We die, but we say yes,
absolutely. Like there is forgiveness and
salvation for that individual who on their deathbed goes.
So like I, I do wonder if it's kind of similar to that.
Like Jesus, are you serious? Yeah.
Like we did all the things. It's like, it's the older
brother in the prodigal son, right?
It's the older brother. I stayed.
I did all the work, like where's my party?
And so I think that's a natural human response to it.
But that's the Kingdom. Like that's the gospel is like,
yes, for everybody at any point in their life.
And we celebrate that. So, yeah, I think that's this is
this is just demonstrating that the Kingdom that he he brings
and continues to bring is not any longer.
In fact, it never was only about biblical Israel.
Now it's about everybody. So I, I do that.
I also would just to touch on the other part, I, I would hope
that somebody would look and be like, hey, that guy didn't have
the stories, the history, the tradition, the upbringing, the
knowledge of it and he has faith.
What does that say about Jesus? Like who is this guy really?
Because, you know, now it's not just people who've been primed
to see the signs and recognize, ohhh, something's happening now.
It's somebody who, yeah, he's just, he's just hearing about
Jesus. This guy's wandering around
healing people and performing various miracles and something's
going on. So I think there's there's a lot
of different ways to read it. The the Kingdom is spilling out.
Yeah. And even even in the previous
chapters, some of the teaching there about loving, loving
enemies and, and, you know, the Centurion would have in many
contexts, he would be the enemy, literally, very literally.
Yeah. And And so it's, it's very, it's
very interesting that we see the way that this plays out directly
after. So it's very cool the the second
thought I had, and I apologize because I didn't prime you for
this love. It is as as we were reading
this, this story of of Jesus raising the widows son.
It seems to draw some real parallels with with Elijah and
Elijah raising the widow's son. And I think it's second king is
17 I. Think so somewhere, yeah.
And I just wonder if there's something going on there for for
us to explore, like if there is, because then at the end, what do
they say? A mighty prophet has risen among
us, right? So I wonder if they would have.
Was that correct? Was I off?
Or close. Why don't why don't you pull it
up? Yeah.
Sure. Yeah, this isn't.
This isn't. Quite maybe it's first Kings
doesn't quite it I I feel like 17 is correct.
So I think so right, like there, there you get similar to when
Jesus raises Lazarus, like they're they're the only people.
It's first kings. Yeah, the only people to this
point, like, not many, not many, not many dead people are raised
to life. Period, period.
Scripture. Yeah.
And you know, it's only been done by profits.
In fact, I think it might only be other, might only be Elijah.
Yeah, do you want to read some of Elijah 17 or First King 17
Elijah? Yeah, yeah.
So the widows son, that's a long, it's a longer story, but
eventually I think if you go down to 17 sometime later.
So this is first Kings 1717. Sometime later the woman's son
became sick. He grew worse and worse and
finally he died. Then she said to Elijah, oh man
of God, what have you done to me?
Have you come here to point out my sins and kill my son?
But Elijah replied, give me your son.
And he took the child's body from her arms, carried him up to
the stairs of the room where he was staying, and laid the body
on his bed that Elijah cried out to the Lord.
Oh Lord my God, why have you brought this tragedy to this
widow who has opened her home to me, causing her son to die?
And he stretched himself out over the child three times and
cried out to the Lord. Oh Lord, my God, please let this
child's life return to him. The Lord heard Elijah's prayer,
and the life of the child returned, and he revived.
Then Elijah brought him down from the upper room and gave him
to his mother. Look, he said your son is alive.
Then the woman told Elijah. Now I know for sure that you are
a man of God and that the Lord truly speaks through you.
OK. So a couple of similarities that
I noticed in a couple of differences.
First, the differences. Elijah prays to the Lord.
Would you do it? Would you heal this?
This boy? Right bags.
Yeah, like, yeah, like he is pleading.
Yeah. So in some ways, you know, he's
doing the very thing that we spoke about.
Yeah, on Sunday that yeah, that I preached on was this this like
dragging someone to the feet of Jesus, maybe not literally, but
like coming before God and and pleading on their behalf to God.
Like this is this is a prayer of supplication.
This is like, you know, petition, prayer, petition.
This is this is Elijah begging, pleading with God forgot to do
something. God does the thing and in, you
know, obviously for Jesus, he just does the thing as, as the
Lord himself, He does the thing. He doesn't pray to God.
God, would you do this? He just, he does it.
And so there are two lines. So that's, I mean, I think
obviously that's the main difference.
There are two lines at the end of Luke 7 that I think do draw
these stories forward. And again, we touched a little
bit on it, but a mighty prophet has risen among us.
So this is a common language. People don't know whether Jesus
is a prophet. Is he the Messiah?
Is he something else? You know, trying to work out who
he is. Yeah.
And actually, you know, what we're going to see next, this
coming Sunday, next week, is this discourse between Jesus and
John, the Baptists, messengers. So John's in prison at this
point. And messengers come.
There's this dial, you know, back and forth with them.
And it's almost like John doesn't know who Jesus is
anymore because he's like, hey, you're not doing the things that
I expected you to do. So can we talk about that, Like,
what's going on? And so people are still trying
to figure out who Jesus is at this point in the Gospel of Luke
and in how Luke is unfolding the narrative they're trying to
figure out. One of the things that we see is
that people ask repeatedly, is he a prophet?
Surely he's a great if he can do this and he's a great prophet.
And I do think that when we talk about Jesus, and sorry, this is
kind of a rambling way of answering this question, but
when we talk about Jesus, we talk about Jesus filling the
threefold office. So Jesus is prophet, priest and
king. And I think we've talked about
this before on the podcast. So Jesus is prophet, he is
priest and he is is king. Where Israel has had prophets
separate priests and kings, Jesus is the fulfillment of all
of those institutions. So this really is like they're
recognizing him has as profit. He's not a prophet who needs to
beg to God on someone's behalf. Though he is also priest, he is
also king. Like he is Messiah.
He is Lord, so he is able to act on this child's behalf,
interceding for him and then speech.
So I think he is acting as profit.
I think people are recognizing him as as prophet.
People are seeing something is going on here because they have
these stories and because they know like, listen, like we've
seen this done before and that guy was a great prophet.
So something's going on. So I do think some similarities
there, even just in the language, right, gives like
gives a sound back to the to the mom, right.
Here's your son again, Jesus says.
I tell you, get up. And Elijah pleads to God, Yeah,
God heal him, raise him right, bring him back to life.
And then the second line. God has visited his people today
and in the NLT. I like this.
This is a much more literal translation of the line because
again, it is it is picking up on the stories through the Old
Testament where God visits his people and that that language is
used that when God visits you, it's not like, oh, I dropped by
with coffee right? Though maybe like maybe that's
maybe that's exactly what you need.
This is like, yeah, God has shown up and in power and with
very real presence done something significant in our
midst. Yeah, we've seen it and we're
all walking away changed. So again, we see moments like
this where this would have been considered like God visiting the
people. So now I know for sure that you
are a man of God and that the Lord truly speaks through you.
Yeah. So like God's presence is there
in and through Elijah in this situation.
And and God is visiting his people.
He's certainly visiting this house, raising the kid.
And so, yeah, I I think that inasmuch as.
The there are similarities in the healing.
There's very much, I think, similarities in how people are
seeing it in and interacting with Jesus.
Yeah, I wonder whether or not they would have, whether they
would have like remembered, you know, like we talked about in
the in the sermon that people have this cultural memory and
and this heritage that you have to think that oh, like he's,
he's like Elijah, you know, because they, they, they, they
will compare him other points to Elijah and.
And is he Elijah? Is he the prophet?
Is he? Yeah.
Loses, you know, and, and I think that what we consistently
see here is is Jesus showing us he's like I yes, yes, I am like
Elijah and and greater, you know, and, and you see that even
just in the way that he, he doesn't have to plead to God the
Father. He just does it right.
So so there's there's something really cool there.
I like to think like you put it. I like to think that they would
remember, be like, ohhh, we've seen this before.
Yeah. OK, yeah, something's going on.
It's like just rekindling some of that cultural memory and awe
and wonder. Good.
So those are like those are the softball questions.
Now we now we're getting into some, I said we're challenging
territory, which is great. And there's a couple, a couple
folks from the church who had some really good challenging
questions that are connected to the text, connected to some of
your you're expanding on, on the text.
When we talked about, you know, the, the bold faith of this
romance centurion and, and how he doesn't, he's like, you don't
even need to come, just just do it, you know, like I just, I
know you can do it, just do it right.
And and so when we talk about that type of bold prayer, and
then you touched on on maybe did you don't know if you used the
word meek prayers or or think about how you phrase that
exactly. But this idea of like there are,
there are bold prayers and then there are prayers where we're
sort of hedging our bets a little.
Bit yeah, safe. Safe prayers, safe prayers.
And so I want to unpack that. So someone, you know, brought up
the question of, of expanding on your thoughts on safe prayers
and that we want to make sure that, you know, we're here.
We're saying this well and and correctly because otherwise
there could be room for for being misconstrued, because when
we say something like, if it is your will, that's not wrong to
pray that Jesus, Jesus praised that in the garden, right?
And there is a sense in which, you know, praying with deference
to God's will is a good thing. And so how do we, how do we do
that? How do we do that rightly and
well? And I think maybe even this may
be a Part 2 that we'll get to in a moment.
But like, where my head goes sometimes is like, yeah,
sometimes I'm, I can muster up bold prayers and sometimes all
I've got is a meek little God. Can you just do something,
please, if you will, you know, like, like, so that's sometimes
all I've got, right. And so I'm thinking through the
lens of folks who are maybe dealing with some challenging
circumstances and situations. And, and it's like, how, how do
they, how can they pray boldly? Well, yeah, with with musing on
a little bit. Yeah, so, so great question.
I'm flipping over to Matthew 26, which is where Jesus does pray
in the Garden of Gethsemane. And also Matthew 7 with or six
rather 6, which is where Jesus teaches on the Sermon on the
Mount in Matthew on prayer, where we get the the Lord's
Prayer in. You know, they're pretty
traditional Lord's Prayer language, right?
Like there's the Gospel Matthew. I pulled up Hebrews 4 because I
think. There's something in there as
well. So I I think the first thing
that the first thing that I want to say though, is like it's
really interesting. There's CS Lewis points this out
in an article that he wrote. Obviously he wrote before he
died, obviously, but it was published after he died.
He wrote it, I think for a journal.
It wasn't really intended to be published.
Like he didn't edit it for publication beyond and he was
requested to send it in. So it was published posthumously
to greater degree where he muses on this idea that that there are
two almost competing patterns of of prayer offered in the
scriptures by Jesus and just wrestling that out.
So what he calls pattern A is the the Gethsemane prayer.
So in in Matthew 26, so like Jesus, this is before his death.
He tells his disciples he's like, hey, sit here, I'm going
to go over there while I pray. And so he goes like, listen,
like my soul is crushed with grief to the point of death.
Stay here, keep watch goes on a little further.
And then this is where he gets the prayer.
Like my father, if it is possible, let this cup of
suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will to be done,
not mine. So your will be done, not my
will. And so was his kind of teases
out like this is Pattern A, Yeah, this, this is my will.
This is what I'm praying for. This is what I'm asking for.
Your will be done and almost like a God bend my will to
yours, right? So he, he calls this pattern A
and it it would kind of be, I think, you know, I think he even
says, like I'd be perfectly content in my heart and in my
head if this was the only way we were told to pray by Jesus,
right, Because you can kind of you can surrender your will to
God and also like you can live in that, in that tension, in
that reality of this is what this is what I'm praying for.
And this is what I'm asking for. And I am asking for building
strongly. Like this is the thing.
I'm not skirting around it. I'm not sort of SEO sidestepping
it like this is the thing, but I want to acknowledge your well,
it's also what we see in right in the Sermon on the Mount.
So he says our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy or
hallowed be your name, Mayor, Kingdom come, may your will be
done on earth as it is in heaven.
So again, like this is Jesus's way of teaching on prayer.
He is teaching that we pray for God's will to be done.
So you know, I I certainly don't I certainly don't don't you
know, want to suggest to people that that praying your will be
done. God is a bad prayer.
I think what I said on Sunday was that I think sometimes we
can pray it as a safe prayer, right?
Safe prayers aren't necessarily bad and they're not necessarily
wrong. I think they are safe to the
extent that it again, this is hard to it's I think hard to
quantify, but it's, it's more of a heart and mind posture than it
is the words you're saying. So if you can come in, if you
can pray, your will be done at the same time as you're praying
bold specific prayers. But God, would you do this?
God, God, do this thing. Yeah.
I am surrendering and holding my will lightly because I recognize
your goodness and your will ultimately will be done.
Then that's fantastic, right? If you can, If you can do that,
I think. And what I suggested on Sunday
was that sometimes we use it as a, as an emotional seat belt or
like safeguard so that if our prayer isn't answered, we can
just dismiss it as well. That's God's will.
And I think that is a safe prayer because it it what it
doesn't do is it doesn't force us or draw us to a position
where we are really wrestling out why something didn't happen.
Which we'll come back to in a in a little bit.
Yeah, second question. Yeah, yeah.
So exactly. So I think it's safe because it
allows me to dismiss prayers that aren't answered the way I
want simply as God's will, when that might not be the case.
It might. It might be that you're.
It might be that your prayer is not answered yet.
It might be that it like. It might be that Gad's actually
challenging you to grow and change and approach something
differently. Like there might be other things
at play, right? Like there, there might, you
might be asking out of poor motivation.
It like there's a whole lot of different.
I think there's a lot of different ways of thinking about
why a prayer is not answered. Yeah, yes, like, absolutely.
It all happens. It all rises or falls with God's
will. Like that's the reality of it.
But I think where I see it being a safe prayer is the prayer
wasn't answered the way you want, so you dismiss it as as
God's will. Well, maybe you, maybe you
didn't like, I'm not, I'm not gonna say maybe maybe you didn't
pray the prayer correctly, but. But it's a dangerous game to.
Play. No, exactly, but, but maybe
actually what you were asking for is not a, what I would say
like a like a good or correct prayer in line with God's
Spirit. And if you just dismiss it, but
well, God didn't answer that because it's not inside of his
will. What you're not allowing God to
do is challenge that. No, actually, the way in which
you're approaching prayer needs to change.
But if you just dismiss it, you can hold it at arm's length
because it's the only reason that that my prayer wasn't
answered answered is because it's God's will.
Hmm. Then I'm not being confronted or
changed or challenged by any sort of reality that maybe I
need my heart to shift on something.
And I think that's where I that's where I'm going with this
idea. So yeah.
Go ahead. It brings up some very
existential questions about, about the nature of prayer and
whether or not prayers are in fact effectual.
And, and, and I mean, it seems like going back to the, the, the
story of the centurion, like man, like he, his, his prayer,
even though, I mean, it wasn't really a, it almost wasn't a
prayer. It was just like, hey, Jesus,
can you do the thing? I'm gonna send a messenger to
ask you to do the thing. But like, he was almost like
just a matter of fact, right? But like I, I worry, I worry for
myself cause I, I wrestle with like, OK, I contend to hedge my
prayers. I contend to sort of, you know,
do exactly what you're saying. Like, Hey, God, if, if you know,
if this is your will, great. If not, help me to accept that.
And, and I think there are, there is, again, there's nothing
wrong with that, But I think sometimes what I might be
missing there is God, what are you actually calling for me to
do in that moment? How are you calling me to be
changed in this process and refined in this process?
And, and that's, that's something that I that I need to
be reminded of. And yet I also still, you know,
I know this gets into some, some deeper, you know, wonderings,
but I still wonder if there are times when not that we can twist
God's arm, but that God that we can, that we can actually have a
genuine dialogue about, about God.
You know, we see that a few times in Scripture where where
they're like, Hey, like God, we could you change your mind on
this one, please? You know, and even thinking
about the Psalms, there's a number of times in the Psalms
where where they're pleading with God that God, would you do
this thing? And I think the phrase is like
for your namesake, like, hey, like your honor is at stake here
if you don't do this God. So like God, would you do this,
right? And there's something pretty
bold about that. Like there's something
significant there that that is in that God like, hey, do this
because your name is great. I know your name is great.
So would you do it? Yeah.
So to flip to the pattern B, so pattern A is your will be done
and it's a right way. It is a right way to pray when
it is prayed, I think with ultimate surrender to God's
authority and I want to loop back to that authority.
But pattern B is like John 14 where Jesus says starting in 12.
So this is like I can't remember off the top of my head, which is
bad. Like if this is part of the
farewell discourse. Anyways, this is in the Gospel
of John. There are many chapters where
Jesus is laying down kind of some final teachings and
conversation. I believe it is at any rate,
this is where you get like the grape.
I'm I, you know, I'm the Grapevine.
My father is the gardener. It's where Jesus predicts Peter,
Peter's denial. And at any rate, in 14, Jesus
says, I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will
do the same works I have done and even greater works because I
am going to be with the Father. You can ask for anything in my
name, and I will do it so that the sun can bring glory to the
Father. Yes.
Ask me for anything in my name and I will do it.
So this is pattern B? Yeah.
Where CS Lewis goes. What's going on?
Yeah, we got pattern A. We got pattern B.
And what he starts to tease out anyways, they say their
thoughts, right? That he's externally processing
this. I think what many of us under in
prayer is like, yeah, your will be done and also you say to ask
for it. So help me live in that tension.
But this this second, the pattern B seems to point us
toward that reality that Jesus says ask for anything in my name
and I will do it with where I was gonna go is CS Lewis points
out that in my name doesn't mean that little pithy like in Jesus
name. Amen.
Yeah, like let me let me let me list my whole laundry list of of
items that I want you to do Yeah.
And air all my dirty like let me get all the names of all the
people I despise the most included in this prayer and like
you know, in Jesus name, Amen, like you're so it's it's in
Jesus name. I think really is like asking my
name is ask in in the spirit of who Jesus is and in the spirit
of the Kingdom. Is your prayer aligned with who
Jesus is? Is it aligned with how how Jesus
puts it here? He says because I'm going to the
Father, but then he says I will do it so that the Son can bring
glory to the Father. So does your prayer bring glory
to Jesus and does it bring glory to God?
Is your prayer a prayer that's born out of God's goodness in
you or, you know, is it like David who who really like, well,
smite these guys and kill those guys and destroy my enemies
here? There's a place for all of it.
But you know, I do think that in
Jesus name matters for your namesake, right?
Similar. I think in the spirit of I wrote
down a couple notes. So like Jesus has a number of
places. So Matthew 9 Jesus turned to her
and said, said to her, take heart daughter, your faith has
made you well, right. There are these moments where we
see Jesus he he is he is asked to do something.
He does it. He says, Hey, go, your faith has
made you well, Matthew 8 centurion, difference centurion.
And in that story, at any rate, let's go like faith has made you
well be healed. Like there's, there's, there are
these very direct interactions between Jesus and, and those
that he's healing where, where it does seem like it's the
request or you get the woman who reaches out, touches Jesus and
says, like, yeah, your faith to act has, has made you well, has
brought you to a place where where Jesus was able to do the
thing. Now, what we see over and over
again is that all the things Jesus does, healing, releasing
of spirits, casting out demons, those types of things, all of it
are in line with the Kingdom. Never once does Jesus answer a
prayer to do something that's out of line with the Kingdom.
So I think that's the piece. Henry now in talks about prayer
as this continual conversation with God and I love that.
And so again, he in a paper or might it might be a chapter of a
book, I can't remember. He he muses on his own prayer
life and he's like, what good is it for me to sit down for 20
minutes and just dwell on all the people I don't like?
Like, it's like, that doesn't do me any good.
So he's like, you know, trying to get away from this, this kind
of, I'm going to sit down, I'm going to pray, and then I'm
going to get up and I'm gonna do the rest of my life right.
It's it's Paul's language that he develops in in in
Thessalonians Prey constantly and other letters pray without
ceasing. I think prayer life needs to be
this continual conversation with God and wrestling it out, and
that's what allows it to both be a place where we can ask boldly
and also continually have our wills bent and shaped to God's
will. Yeah, I was just reminded as as
we were talking about this, I was reminded of, yeah, in
Hebrews 4 where the writer who he won't speculate on, you know,
after, after talking about Jesus as high priest.
So we've been Jesus prophet and here as high priests.
Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence
so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our
time of need. And, and, and so like we are
encouraged to do that right. We are encouraged to come
forward with with with boldness with confidence.
And yet again, I I'm also recognizing temp tempering that
against reality that there are times when that feels maybe
impossible for us to muster up, right?
We can't just, that's not always something you can just kind of
decide I'm going to, I'm going to be confident in my approach
to God today, right? No.
And so that's where I wonder, like there's, there's a role for
community to play here, right? That sometimes my prayers are
going to be meek because that's all I can muster.
But I know that there are others who are going to have, you know,
we borrow their faith and they are praying boldly and they are,
you know, and. And so I've just been reflecting
on that a little bit here as well.
Yeah, and and right, this is This is why it's beautiful that
the so Pentecost on Sunday, the Spirit intercedes on our behalf.
When you don't even know what to pray, when you can't muster up
the words, the Spirit groans, right size of the Spirit, these
deep groans of both, you know, spiritual reality, like like
language and life of the Holy Spirit, who is God.
And the the sort of you can picture like the deep groanings
and longings of human existence, which is like, I don't even know
what to pray for the spirits interceding on your behalf.
Like that's a beautiful gift. So I'm not, I'm not suggesting
that you need to at all times be able to pray the best correct,
bold prayer you can, right? Thank goodness.
Right what I'm and nor am I contrasting bold prayers with
like meek, grief stricken or desperate prayers where you
don't like moments where you don't even know what to say.
I'm not contrasting those what I would.
What I'm contrasting is the difference between a bold prayer
and a safe prayer. Yeah.
Because the bold prayer risks disappointment and risks the
answer being no, not in the way you're asking for, right?
So the bold part doesn't always get answered yes, but the bold
prayer is saying what what you actually are.
In fact, I think saying to greater degree is I surrender my
will to you because this is my will, this is what I want, this
is what I'm asking for. Please do it.
There's no denying whether God is like, if he does it or if he
doesn't. Like if the answer is yes, then
it's a yes. And if it's a no, then it's a
no. And some way I know this, like
sometimes it's a, you know, it's not yet it's working these
things out, it's stuff and you have to change anyways.
What? You're risking being wrong, and
that's why it's not a safe. Prayer safe prayer is almost
feel like they they don't get a response.
And what what by that I mean just like it's it's almost like,
well, whatever, they just feel they feel a little almost
impotent in some ways. Like that is like, well, if God
answers, cool. If he doesn't, cool.
If he, you know, like it just yeah.
Yeah. And if it's yes, great, I was
right. And if it's no, then I can just
dismiss. It protect myself from feeling
all the feelings of I'm not answering the prayer the way I.
Want exactly, exactly. But you gotta like, you look at
like David and I want to come back to David and Sam 42 with
our next question. But you look at David, dudes
asking bold, very specific prayers and he's going to know
whether they're answered or not. And I was like, I go, hey,
risky, right? Like it's, it's not a safe place
to throw everything out to God. It was like, this is absolutely
all of it and something's changing.
Either God's answering it in the way you want or he's not answer
like he's answering in a way you don't want.
And and either way, you're going to be confronted with that and
it's going to force you to reflect and grow and change and
wrestle with the no and wrestle with the unanswered piece and
wrestle with faith and doubt and grief and joy, celebration, all
of it. So I think that's what I, you
know, that's that's what I want people to think about and
wrestle through. When when you think about it, is
is it a safe prayer? It's not like because he said a
certain, you know, thing wrong. It's like, am I willing to risk
being wrong? Yeah.
Am I willing to risk being disappointed?
Am I willing to risk being upset and confused and to wonder out
loud why this didn't happen the way we're praying for?
Like, those are bold prayers. Sometimes they're whispered,
sometimes that's a bold prayer. Yeah, sometimes they're not
spoken at all. That's a bold prayer still.
I love that. Yeah.
It's, it's almost like, OK, I'm liking, I'm likening it to
someone who is, is going to confess their love to someone
and, and they don't know if it's gonna be, you know, reciprocated
or not. And, and you're taking a big
risk and maybe it'll be reciprocated, maybe it won't.
But you if you don't do anything, if you know, if you
don't, you have all those love inside, you don't do anything
with it. It's you're kind of squandering,
you know, you kind of squandering that.
Yeah. Anyway, maybe that doesn't land,
but I was just made me think of that.
You're out there, right? Like this is, this is the
reality. It's out there.
You're putting yourself. You're putting yourself out and
it's something's happening, so yeah.
So, and I think this pair is perfectly with a different
question from a different person of just OK, so, so we ask big
prayers, we ask boldly, we do all that God doesn't answer or
God says no or, or it seems the door has been shut or whatever.
What do we do with our hearts and our disappointment and our
anger? Hmm.
For God not answering in a feeling like we've been let
down. Yeah.
And there's, there's this space where you ask boldly, I'm just
sort of kind of recapping this, this question here.
How do we keep from getting bitter?
How do we keep from having hard hearts?
How do we continue in our faith when when we've been hurt or
disappointed or let down in that way?
So sort of this tension of asking boldly and then also
being hurt and disappointed when the answer is and what we want.
So how do we, how do we think on that?
How do we, how do we wrestle that out?
You continue to pray boldly, right?
I think. And I don't say that as like a
pithy, simple, sort of half hearted answer.
Just keep going. I genuinely, you know, again,
this is where, this is where I think the conversation piece
from Henry Nowen is helpful, where prayer is this daily
continual conversation between you and God.
Um, the worst thing I think you could do is to stop praying
right? And to, to shut down that, that
discipline or habit routine because it didn't go the way you
wanted. But like, that's the human thing
to do, right? That's like the human nature
thing is like, well, I tried this and it didn't work.
So now I'm hurt and disappointed by it.
I'm not doing that again. So I think one of the challenges
is to is to continue to pray and continue to pray boldly.
We think that. I think we, you know, I have
conversations with people who say something along the lines
like, I could never say that to God.
Sure you can. Like what are you talking about?
If you can't like, who else are you going to say it to like?
Like bringing that anger. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, I
think some, sometimes we, we, we assume, you know, we need to say
the right thing in the right way, nice language, etcetera.
And I just got no God again, it might, it might be cliche, but
it's like God can handle the anger.
And you know, I think that that's one of the mistakes we
make is just to go silent, right?
We go dark and just push ourselves into isolation.
So keep praying, keep showing up, keep doing the thing, keep
being bold and honest and voicing all of the despair.
So that's that's number one, I think is continue to do the
thing. And this is where, like you've
already brought up, this is where community helps is where,
you know, maybe you need people to kind of come with you and
carry you through. So, you know, if you find
yourself in that season, the, the, the easy thing is to be in
that season alone. And you know, it's, it's a lot,
it's a lot harder in many ways, right, long term, but it is
simple in some ways just to kind of isolate yourself and close
down to not only to God, but to others as well.
And I often find like that's that's a pretty common
trajectory where, you know, the more I close off to God, the
more I close off to people. Yeah.
So both of those things happen kind of inspiral.
So continue to show up and continue to allow people to show
up with you. You know, I think is, is #1
honest, real, raw conversation about the deep disappointment.
Like again, that's I think that's what we see modeled in,
in prayer, certainly in one in many different places.
But like in the Psalms are beautiful for this.
Mess of emotions. And yeah, and this is what I say
to people who, you know, maybe are looking to pray but don't
know how to start, let's say. So start in two places.
Start with someone and start with Matthew 6 on Jesus teaching
on the Lord. Pray that prayer, pray the
Lord's Prayer, and pray through the Psalms.
Um, yeah, there's some great resources on praying the Psalms.
Martin Luther has a book called Literally Praying the Psalms
where he, he has a prayer to go with every Psalm and a little,
just a little thought on, on each of them.
Actually think he stopped at like 2/3 of the way through.
He's like, I think it ends easy because you kind of you get the
point. Just go and do it yourself.
But yeah, great little book. Thomas Merton has a has a
wonderful small book on praying the Psalms as well.
And so, you know, I think find yourself there.
Allow what I would call like the church though, you know, I
recognize that the Old Testament Psalms, you know, David, others,
not quite the church at that point, but you know, I think the
legacy of spirituality that we have is beautiful and allow
other peoples prayers to carry you.
So, you know, pray those prayers.
It just has as to ways of beginning to to confront it.
I love how so some some 42, Uh, yeah.
I'm not going to read all of it. It's not very long, but it's
almost like David's having this conversation with himself and
God, right? So Psalm 42, he's like, my heart
is breaking as I remember how it used to be.
I walk among the crowds of worshippers leading a great
procession to the House of God, singing for joy, giving thanks
amid the sounds of great celebrations, my hearts
breaking. I remember how it used to be.
Why am I so discouraged? Why is my heart so sad?
I will put my hope in God. I will praise him again, my
Savior and my God, and then he goes back.
But now I'm deeply discouraged. But I will remember you.
Even from the distant Mount Herman, the source of the
Jordan, from the land Mount Mizar, I hear tumult, raging
seas, like it's this back and forth, back and forth of, you
know, like I, I, this is where I'm at.
I'm gonna choose to remember, remember God.
But, you know, it's like, why am I discouraged?
He repeats it. Why am I discouraged?
Why is my heart so sad? Why?
So, you know, I think it's, it's just this great kind of back and
forth of, hey, this is where I'm at.
Why am I this way reflecting on it, right?
What's going on? Like, why am I, I'm gonna choose
to remember God. I'm gonna put my hope in God.
I'll praise him again, my Lord, my Savior.
Well, that didn't work. I'm still deeply discouraged.
Like, why am I deeply discouraged?
OK, I'm going to choose it. So he's offering this pattern or
this kind of liturgy almost of back and forth of, you know,
this is the way I am. Why am I the way I am?
This is who God is. I'm going to remember God, but
I'm still this and I'm still, you know, this way.
Why am I still this way? I'm gonna remember God.
And it's just this kind of meandering stream and it's very.
Slow. It's very human.
Though yeah, human expression of of life.
So I think, you know, you want those internal dialogues, right?
You want that kind of contemplative heart and nature
toward prayer. And hopefully we can be bringing
that out to God, you know, And so like, you see, even in the
Psalm, David's bringing it before God.
He's writing it down. So he's bringing it to a broader
community of faith in some ways. And I feel like that is
important for us as well. And, and maybe maybe it's almost
it's own like way of like journaling as well, right?
So there's almost like bringing it to God.
You're kind of reflecting on it internally with yourself, and
then also you're bringing it into, into community with other
people, right? And that, that feels like I, I
would never say that someone can, you know, you're going to
avoid bitterness and disappointment if you do these
three things. That's, that's, that's not, it's
not a formula, right? This is not a formula.
However, I do wonder if we can safeguard ourselves from some of
the the extreme disappointments when prayers aren't answered and
bitterness and even for some like the, you know, the the loss
of faith, right? If we are, if we are doing some
of these practices. Yeah, absolutely.
So I, I think, I think all of those practices are good and
right. And you know, I think the
challenge becomes how do you do them?
How do you have people in your life to hold you accountable to
them? Where when I think of So the
question was, how do you how do you you correct me if I'm
misremembering the question. The question was, how do you
face unanswered prayer or prayer answered in a way you did not
want? The disappointment, the
discouragement without becoming bitter.
Yeah, right. So I think that's the like
that's kind of the the key piece there.
Yeah. So just to hopefully make it
maybe not more practical, but simpler, I think we become
bitter when a couple things happen.
So we become bitter when you're not able to voice your
discouragement and disappointment and anger and
frustration and grief and sadness and sorrow When?
It's been sort of you have to. When you said exactly, Yeah,
yeah. When you feel like there's no
outlet for it. So now what happens is I'm
feeling all these things and I begin to feel ashamed and guilty
for it. And I shouldn't be feeling this
way. And it means I don't have faith
because if God didn't answer it and if God's will is good, then
why should. So I think we get into this
spiral of, of not being honest with ourselves, with God and
with others about the real emotions and and experience that
you are in the middle of. So that's again, that's where
what you've said, like writing, prayer, community, all help us
externalize and name the thing or the things that are going on.
So we become bitter when when we're not able to do that.
So you know, again, it's simple to say, but find yourself some
people who won't allow you to go that in, you know that that far
in on into yourself. That is where I think community
really matters deeply. And you know, as much as you're
able to, don't allow your own internal dialogue between you
and God to turn into this monologue of like, it's just me,
right? Yeah.
So continue to name it, continue to voice it, continue to say the
thing that's number one. I think the other reason why we
become bitter is that we begin to question and doubt God's
goodness. Yeah, because if if you know
more so than God didn't answer the prayer I wanted in the way
or the pray I prayed the thing that I was begging and pleading
for and like we're talking about like real, like heavy things
like yeah, we. Made marriages breaking.
Up we prayed for this kid and this kid died, right?
We prayed for this spouse and this spouse left.
We prayed for yeah, this this family and the family imploded.
We like heavy and not not that other things are insignificant,
but like, yeah, how do you address it?
So I think we we can also become bitter when we begin to doubt
and distrust God's goodness. And like I see that all the way
back in the, that that's Genesis, right?
Like this is Adam and Eve. It's, it's the, it's the like,
did God really say that? So the other piece that I'd be
wary of is, is that like that voice, right?
Like did God really say like he's got really good?
Like, did he really? Does he really have your best,
you know, in in mind or at heart?
Like is he really working for the flourishing of humanity and
for for good like that? Those are I think those are the
the thoughts that can also creep in and lead to bitterness.
And I think those the the the the last piece that I'll say is
name those things as well. Yeah.
Because again, like that's, you know, those are the, those are
the moments we need somebody else to call that out.
Not, not in a way that like, pushes on you necessarily, but,
but that's not the voice you ought to be listening to.
Yeah, it feels like when it's something that is the the
constant refrain in our hearts and minds, not tempered against
anything else that that is going to do some damage, right?
Because I do think, yeah, as you were talking, I was like,
actually, I, I want to be able to name that if I'm, if I'm
struggling with God's goodness in a decision that I felt God
made that I didn't agree with, right?
I, I want to be able to do that. However, I also need people to,
to draw me back in to, to other realities and, and to, and to
see where God has been good and faithful, because sometimes in
those moments, my, I have a very myopic perspective.
I am thinking about this one thing that, and maybe it's a
very big thing. Maybe it's an earth shattering
thing that has, that has wrecked my life in some way, right.
And so I I need folks to help me see the bigger picture.
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, be remiss
to say like, it's easy and it's just like, well, just believe
that that's good. Like that's, that's not it.
I don't think that's what we're saying.
Yeah. But I, I, I think that that is
one of the fundamental, like that's the one of the
fundamental lies that that Satan wants people to belief is that,
you know, sure, believe that God exists all you want, but he's
not good, right? Yeah.
He's not working on your behalf. And yeah, absolutely.
You need to be able to name that in community because that's the
only way through that. Right?
Yeah. Like literally that's, those are
the moments where you do need people kind of dragging you
through it and be like, listen, we're in it.
We're in it with you and we're going to walk it through and
it's going to be painful and it's going to be hard.
And it's like, not everything is good.
Like not every situation is gonna like miraculously be like,
wow, amazing turn of events at the end.
Like, um, but does it allow you to or does it cause you to
ultimately question God's goodness?
And when it does, do you have a, do you have a place to go with
that that's safe and encouraging and loving?
Be like, yeah, absolutely, that's a valid thought feeling
conclusion to draw and we know that there's more.
We'll get there eventually, but I'll sit with you in the in the
meantime, so. It's OK that you're not there
right now. Exactly.
And we're we're we're with you. Yeah.
In the long haul, you know, it's kind of like if if Joe's friends
were actually good friends and. And truly, just, truly just
mourned with him and grieved with him until he.
Was sit with you and remind you of how awful everything is.
So I think I would flip it. I think I would flip it and say
that this has, I think, I think I'm speaking more to the person
who's not in the midst of it right now than I am to somebody
who's like in the thick of deep disappointment, sorrow, anger,
grief. Like this.
Us talking about it isn't gonna be like, oh, great.
I never thought about it that way before.
Perfect. For the friend.
I yeah, I think I'm, what I'm saying is, hey, for the friend
who sees somebody going through the thick of it, this is your
task? Yeah.
To show up, to sit in it, to allow people to be where they
are and to give them small slivers of hope that just remind
them like one step in front of the other, right?
One foot in front of the next foot in front of the next.
Like we're gonna walk this out together.
And I'm going to remind you as much as I can that God is good.
And I'm not going to expect that to change the reality that
you're in. But we'll get there eventually,
right? Like I think I'm speaking to the
friend you just like, you might need to show up for somebody.
Yeah. And showing up, sitting down,
crying, weeping, morning embracing, you know, the deep
emotion and and also being able to be the the one who says,
yeah, like God is still good, you're still loved.
This is not good. And it certainly doesn't feel
like it's headed in a good direction.
But this much we know about who God is.
And that'll be the anchor, I think, that holds somebody
toward the goodness of God. It's a heavy task, but it is.
It's a privilege in some ways to journey with friends in that
process. Some heavy stuff for this week's
podcast and I don't know that we answered fully any of the
questions, but. Feels like the thing you could
talk about for a very long time and and it's, you know, you're
dealing with grief and suffering and the the big questions of
life that have been discussed for millennia and will not be
solved in a one hour podcast. No, we didn't get into like the
cause, like who's you know right, what's going on?
What do you horrible things happen to good people and all of
the like? The problem of evil is is one of
the biggest stumbling blocks. So maybe we'll circle back to
that as a as a full topic on another podcast.
But I think for now, the piece of that question that I love is
just the heart to say like, how can I do this without becoming
bitter? Because that's what.
That's a great question. Right, right.
Right. Like, not why do these things
happen? Not what, but how can I navigate
it without being bitter? And yeah, so I think we're
saying you need good people around you.
And if you find yourself in a season where you are not, you
know, wrestling with bitterness and grief and anger, like, be
the friend. Be the friend who shows up,
alright? We hope that this encourages and
maybe challenges you this week, and we'll see you in the next
episode.