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Hey friends, welcome to another 
episode of our podcast here at 

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KPC. 
We are thrilled to have you and 

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glad that you may be listening 
wherever you are into your week.

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It is. 
It's a Wednesday for us, so a 

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little bit later in the week, 
we're getting ready for our 

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community Bible study. 
Week 3 of Bible study happening 

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tonight. 
So listen, yeah, the eager ones 

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may listen to this before 
Community Bible study tonight. 

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Not likely at this point in our 
day. 

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Will it be published before 
Community? 

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Bible study behind officially 
now, but that's OK. 

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It was a long weekend here in 
Canada, and we took Monday off. 

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We did Nice. 
Yeah. 

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We did two yeah, assemble 
various outdoor cooking utensils

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and throw out various backs. 
It was a good long weekend. 

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We are hopping into a 
conversation on Luke chapter 6, 

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which will surprise nobody who's
been following. 

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We've been in Luke 6 now for I 
can't remember how many weeks 

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this is. 
I think this is actually just 

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week 3 of Luke 6, but six verse 
27 to 36, which is in many 

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Bibles titled subtitled Loving 
your enemies or Love for 

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enemies. 
And Justin, I love the way that 

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you started off Sunday after I 
got my kids dropped off 

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frantically to kids own like 
Sunday school and then made it 

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back into the sanctuary. 
I think I caught just that that 

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one line, He said. 
Something along the lines of 

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like this might be the easiest 
passage to intellectually 

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understand, but the hardest 
passage in the Bible to actually

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do the thing. 
It's kind of like it's Sunday 

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school 101, right? 
You know, like what do you what 

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do you learn when you are like 
first learning is like love, 

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love everybody, right and, and 
that everybody period, right. 

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And and obviously enemies and 
we'll unpack a little bit more 

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of that, but like that are 
included in that. 

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Yeah. 
So do you wanna read it quickly?

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It's not long. 
And then, yeah, we can hop into 

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some questions. 
Sure. 

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So Luke 627 to 36 But to you who
are listening I say, love your 

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enemies, do good to those who 
hate you, bless those who curse 

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you, pray for those who mistreat
you. 

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If someone slaps you on the 
cheek, turn to them the other. 

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Also, if someone takes your 
coat, do not withhold your shirt

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from them. 
Give to everyone who asks you, 

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and if anyone takes what belongs
to you, do not demand it back 

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due to others as you would have 
them do to you. 

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If you love those who love you, 
what credit is that to you? 

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Even sinners do that. 
Do love those who love them? 

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And if you do good to those who 
do good to you, what credit is 

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that to you? 
Even sinners do that. 

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And if you lend to those from 
whom you expect repayment, what 

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credit is that to you? 
Even sinners lend to sinners 

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expecting to be repaid in full. 
But love your enemies, do good 

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to them, Lend to them without 
expecting. 

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Get to get anything back. 
Then your reward will be great, 

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and you will be children of the 
Most High, because He is kind to

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the ungrateful and wicked. 
Be merciful, just as your Father

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is merciful. 
Let's like, I mean, it's a 

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powerful verse or series of 
verses. 

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Like you said. 
I think it's fairly easy to 

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understand what Jesus is saying.
Really hard to walk out. 

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Yeah, really hard to actually 
do. 

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And I'm not going to lie, like I
think part of it is because he 

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starts off with the hardest one.
Love your enemies. 

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Yeah, do good to those who hate 
you. 

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In some it it's really 
interesting that how different 

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versions translate that opening 
line. 

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But to you who are listening, I 
say, because some of the 

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translations read something 
along the lines of actually more

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literally like listen to you, I 
say, or to you I say listen, 

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love your enemies. 
It's almost like it's almost 

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like a command. 
The listen, you know he he it's 

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it's though it is like those who
are hearing but. 

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Really wants us to hear this. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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I think that's absolutely. 
He's like, guys, if you were 

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nodding off a little bit, like, 
come on, listen. 

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Pay attention, Pay attention. 
And you know, the word there 

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does have a lot to do with 
hearing, but the implication of 

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it isn't just the act of 
hearing. 

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And I think like any parent is 
gonna be sitting there going, 

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huh, I know this difference. 
I know what's about to come out 

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of that guy's mouth before I've 
even said it. 

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It's not words going into my 
ears and my knowing them. 

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It is this. 
It is this hearing to comprehend

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or comprehending by hearing, by 
listening. 

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There's an intentional act here 
required Jesus saying sit up, 

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pay attention, listen, and then 
comprehend what I'm telling you 

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to do and, and go and do it. 
So there's a lot of even just 

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wrapped up there, but I thought 
it might be helpful for us to 

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start off with just some quick 
recap from Sunday. 

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You used 3 words fairly 
regularly through the sermon 

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that would be helpful for us to 
just redefine. 

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And the first is, is love. 
But in this context, it's agape 

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love, it's divine God toward 
humanity love. 

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It's very specific and I think 
you called it self sacrificial 

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and had another. 
So let's redefine that. 

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And then also grace and mercy 
because I really appreciated how

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you pointed out that credit 
there. 

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Like what credit is that to you 
is actually Keras? 

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Like it's the Greek word for 
grace. 

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What grace is it to you or how 
are you ungracious? 

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You know, if everybody does 
that, then there's no grace 

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there. 
You know, is, is essentially, I 

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think what you what you brought 
to light for everybody, which is

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is helpful. 
So love agape, love, grace and 

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mercy. 
Hmm, Yeah, love. 

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I think the, the biggest take 
away that I could say is, is 

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that the word love, the word 
agape here, it does not require 

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emotion in the way that we would
consider, you know, when I say I

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love my, my wife, there is an 
implied degree of emotion. 

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When I say I love my, my 
daughter, there is an implied 

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degree of emotion there. 
Agape love does not require that

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it is, I think I said this, it's
an act of the will. 

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And and so we have to separate 
what our modern Western 

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understanding of love is for us 
to actually understand what 

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Jesus is saying here. 
Yeah, that's where it is. 

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You know, I think it's, it's 
clear what Jesus is saying, but 

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there are some nuances that make
help our understanding and 

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that's one of them. 
It, it's and I it's, it's 

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freeing. 
It's it is freeing that we are 

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not like, OK, great. 
I don't have to have warm 

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fuzzies toward a dictator, you 
know, in my call to love 

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everyone, including those who 
hate me or are actively seeking 

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to harm me in some way. 
I, I don't need to have some 

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sort of like, you know, 
emotional response other than 

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hey, I, I, I love you because 
God calls me to you. 

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It is the right thing to do. 
I, I and I will seek good for 

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you regardless of how you treat 
me. 

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You know that is an act of the 
will, not an emotion. 

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Act of will, I think is a really
helpful way. 

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Like there's a whole generation 
of us who maybe grew up on DC. 

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Talk by love is a verb and was 
my. 

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Very first cassette. 
As my very first, this is like 

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CD that I bought. 
Yeah, see. 

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That's where like, you're a 
couple years younger than me, so

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yeah. 
Yeah. 

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There's this CD I think I. 
Still have that CD I lost. 

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It and then bought it again. 
And still have it I. 

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Don't. 
No, sadly. 

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Twice over me, yeah. 
Twice. 

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But I think so here, here's what
I really appreciate about your 

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definition. 
I don't need to convince myself 

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to feel a certain way about 
somebody to accomplish what 

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Jesus is commanding us to 
accomplish here. 

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He's not saying feel differently
about that person who harms you,

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right? 
And it like it feels like you 

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betray your emotions and you 
betray yourself in some way, 

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your experience, all of what 
you're feeling, right? 

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As you know, as helpful and 
unhelpful as emotions can be, 

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you know they are both. 
Yes, but but you know what Jesus

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is not saying here is feel 
differently about somebody. 

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He's saying act differently 
towards someone. 

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Yes, and one. 
Is not just simply not 

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attainable in some scenarios and
the other is. 

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And you can't, it's another 
thing where you can't just like 

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fake it till you make it. 
It's not, it's not that either. 

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It's not like, well, if I just 
act on this, I will eventually 

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have some affection. 
No, that that might never 

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happen. 
When you're dealing with 

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difficult people, the 
expectation is not that I will 

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eventually feel warmly toward 
them. 

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That is not what we're talking 
about here. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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So. 
And we're going to come back to 

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that because I think you 
rightly, you pointed out just 

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the the nuance and difficulty of
enemy and who we read in as 

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enemy. 
And what does this mean for 

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somebody who has been abused 
with their abuser? 

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And there are some lines that I 
think the Christian Church have 

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like fuzzed and crossed. 
And, you know, you were very 

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crystal clear, like this is not 
in any way Jesus saying remain 

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in a in an abusive relationship 
and turn the other cheek to 

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physical abuse and violence. 
Like he's being very clear here.

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This is not that. 
And you were clear on Sunday 

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with that, which I appreciate. 
And come back to all that by way

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of some conversation around how 
to proceed in more difficult 

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scenarios and circumstances. 
But give us grace and mercy and 

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then we'll hop into the other 
questions. 

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Yeah. 
So, so grace when he's, when 

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he's using that word grace, what
credit is that to you? 

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What grace is that to you? 
How are you being gracious? 

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How are you offering, extending 
a gift? 

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Because grace can also be 
understood as a gift. 

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It is it is something that you 
are an unmerited gift that that 

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they are recipients of. 
And I think in this context, you

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could you could look at, you 
know, say for instance, I 

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brought you a gift. 
I mean, maybe you deserved it, 

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maybe you didn't. 
Somebody. 

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Somebody brought us a gift this 
morning. 

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Yeah, those little cookies, 
yeah. 

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Exactly. 
Yeah, it was a wonderful. 

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It's delightful. 
Yeah, we might. 

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Not deserve it. 
We might. 

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Not have deserved it, but you 
know, maybe maybe we earned it 

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in some way. 
Maybe, you know, maybe we're 

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like, anyway, the the point that
Jesus is making here is that 

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when you do this, you need to be
able to do it for people that 

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definitely didn't earn it, 
because otherwise it's, it's not

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grace. 
It's not, it's it. 

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This is not a a gift. 
This is not offering something 

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that is of meaning or value. 
If if they're just people that 

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are your, are your peers, your 
equals, people that you are on 

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good footing with, It feels a 
little bit, it's not selfless. 

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It's not selfless if, if we are 
reciprocating gifts for one 

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another, you know, if we have an
arrangement that you know, you 

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buy me a slice of pizza this 
week and I buy you a slice of 

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pizza next week, it's not really
a gift. 

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No, no, no. 
And there's like, it's purely 

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transactional. 
Yeah. 

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This is like the teaching team 
we were talking about a couple 

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different examples. 
So this is like the team who 

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gets together ahead of the 
community Bible study talk 

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through the passage. 
What are we hoping for people to

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move through questions that 
we're anticipating, all that 

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kind of stuff. 
And then a few of those people 

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are the ones leading it on 
Wednesday night, just in case 

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you're flying in blind on what 
some of these words mean. 

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There. 
There are these shows, right 

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where like The Big Bang Theory 
and Sheldon Cooper just not 

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being able to receive a gift. 
And he's like, he's like, I 

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can't. 
He just overly gives back 

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because he's it's gotta be equal
for this guy. 

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Or in New Girl where two of the 
characters go bezerk because one

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gives the other a cookie and 
he's like, yeah, you, you gave 

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me a cookie. 
I give you the cookie back. 

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We're even like we're equal. 
I don't know how to how our 

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friendship can't progress unless
you unless you take this cookie 

227
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:45,010
back. 
And like, that's not that's not 

228
00:12:45,020 --> 00:12:47,350
what what grace is pointing us 
toward. 

229
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,070
I like talking about grace as 
unmerited favor. 

230
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:54,790
Hmm. 
So it is it's it's unmerited and

231
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,290
it's favor. 
It is something added to giving 

232
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:00,270
toward graciousness. 
It's a gift. 

233
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,630
It's Yeah. 
OK. 

234
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:09,180
And mercy versus. 
Mercy, which is not receiving 

235
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:12,100
and you, you phrase this better 
than I did, but let me just try 

236
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:14,260
to work this out a little bit 
because it's always helpful to 

237
00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:17,280
to work in a real time. 
Mercy is, is sort of the 

238
00:13:17,290 --> 00:13:20,180
negation of, of grace is sort of
the negative version of that 

239
00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:23,800
there where we ought to receive 
something usually like a 

240
00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:26,980
punishment and we do not receive
it. 

241
00:13:26,990 --> 00:13:29,020
It it has been. 
So in the case of, you know, 

242
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:31,810
like a judge and you're in a 
courtroom scenario. 

243
00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:34,580
Just The thing is, the easiest 
to think about is they're about 

244
00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:37,480
to pronounce a judgment because 
you did something wrong that you

245
00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:39,220
ought that you ought not have 
done. 

246
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:43,020
And instead of punishing, the 
punishment is withdrawn. 

247
00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,290
You know that's a mercy, right? 
Yep. 

248
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:47,350
They'll look at something in 
your life, say like, well, they 

249
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,930
haven't. 
They had a rough upbringing and 

250
00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:52,320
they're they're doing hard work 
to get themselves in good order.

251
00:13:52,390 --> 00:13:54,600
So I'm going to extend mercy to 
you. 

252
00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:57,140
If I get a speeding ticket or if
I'm, if I get pulled over 

253
00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:59,700
speeding or if I blow through a 
red light and the cop comes up 

254
00:13:59,710 --> 00:14:01,580
and he's like, listen, like I 
got you on camera. 

255
00:14:01,690 --> 00:14:05,930
Like, yeah, you're doing 100 and
the speed limit is 80 or you 

256
00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:07,470
went through the light. 
It was red. 

257
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,560
It wasn't yellow, no matter how 
many times you think you saw it 

258
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,270
like it was red. 
And instead of ticket you're 

259
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,680
given a warning like that's 
mercy. 

260
00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:19,690
That's what mercy is. 
It is withholding punishment 

261
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,160
where punishment was due. 
Can I? 

262
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:23,990
Confess something? 
Yeah, one time I got pulled 

263
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,300
over. 
It's like 10 years ago and I was

264
00:14:27,310 --> 00:14:32,610
right at the end of like, it had
a series of, let's say less than

265
00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:38,020
stellar driving activity and, 
and I was almost at the point of

266
00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:40,110
like, I would have almost lost 
my license. 

267
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,330
Oh. 
No, I. 

268
00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,480
I haven't had a ticket in over 
10 years so this. 

269
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:45,100
Is where we're gonna go back a 
little ways. 

270
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:46,400
Disclaimer. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

271
00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:48,110
OK. 
Younger, more reckless years. 

272
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:55,340
I could not get a ticket. 
So I I literally begged the 

273
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:58,440
officer for mercy. 
Like I used the word can you 

274
00:14:58,450 --> 00:15:01,010
please have mercy? 
Yeah, like I'm, I'm trying to 

275
00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:03,360
write this shit, but this isn't 
gonna help me. 

276
00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:06,160
This is this is the tipping me 
in the other direction. 

277
00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:08,230
Yeah. 
And. 

278
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:12,740
He he knocked it down to just 
like the kind of 15 / 15, no. 

279
00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:13,920
Points. 
No point he had. 

280
00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:15,080
Mercy he had. 
Mercy. 

281
00:15:15,090 --> 00:15:18,960
Yeah, still, you know, digging 
me 50 bucks, you know, but had 

282
00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:21,260
mercy. 
Yeah, withholding something that

283
00:15:21,270 --> 00:15:24,080
is warranted, right, That is 
unreserved. 

284
00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:27,780
It I deserve that. 
I was definitely driving 30 

285
00:15:27,790 --> 00:15:29,180
over. 
Yeah, yeah. 

286
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:33,340
So like Grace is getting 
something that you don't 

287
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:37,440
deserve, and we're talking like 
a positive in a positive way. 

288
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,580
Receive Receiving it as a gift, 
given that you don't deserve 

289
00:15:42,670 --> 00:15:47,840
mercy is withholding A 
punishment that you would 

290
00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:52,000
deserve or do deserve. 
And in the context of this 

291
00:15:52,010 --> 00:15:56,380
passage, we are talking about 
people that hate us. 

292
00:15:56,550 --> 00:16:01,840
Therefore it's very easy to say,
well, you don't deserve my agape

293
00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:02,980
love. 
You don't. 

294
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:07,980
You're not deserving of me to, 
to lend to you to, to extend you

295
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:13,060
grace, to extend you mercy. 
And, and so it, it's very 

296
00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:16,760
practical here. 
And, and God in the end is 

297
00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:20,680
driving home the point. 
OK, I, I've been gracious to 

298
00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:22,230
you. 
I've given you gifts that you 

299
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,220
didn't deserve. 
I've been merciful. 

300
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:28,060
I haven't done the thing to you 
that that you, you do deserve. 

301
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,620
So do the same. 
You know, you have been, and I 

302
00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:37,000
think that this is strong 
language that I think I could 

303
00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:40,710
back this up, that, you know, 
there have been times where 

304
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,800
people are enemies of God in 
some way. 

305
00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:48,130
And yet God extends grace and 
God extends mercy. 

306
00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:51,270
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, so you read a verse like 

307
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,100
while we were still sinners, 
Christ died for us. 

308
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,730
Grace, mercy, that's. 
That did both of the things 

309
00:16:58,740 --> 00:16:59,370
right. 
Yeah. 

310
00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:03,690
And so, yeah, God says, and you 
put this right, they like go and

311
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:07,510
live differently because of 
because of what you've received.

312
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,430
Like, yeah, yeah. 
It really, Yeah. 

313
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:16,180
It's hard to describe in words. 
I try to draw it out and it's 

314
00:17:16,190 --> 00:17:19,599
still, it's hard to, you know, 
picture, but it takes the 

315
00:17:19,609 --> 00:17:25,770
transactional between like human
to human and puts all of all of 

316
00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:27,740
the burden of the transaction on
God. 

317
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:33,830
So the way I treat you is not 
based on the way you treat me. 

318
00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:36,970
The way I treat you is based on 
the way God has treated me. 

319
00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:38,710
Yes. 
Yeah, right. 

320
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,710
And the way you treat me is not 
based on what I do to you. 

321
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,370
It's based on what God has given
you. 

322
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:50,160
And you know, like, I think like
human beings, like we, we like 

323
00:17:50,170 --> 00:17:52,950
transaction, like we like, like 
the simplicity of it. 

324
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:54,690
And sometimes I find that's just
helpful. 

325
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:59,190
Like it, it, it shifts it from 
this horizontal person to person

326
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,090
and it puts all of the burden on
God. 

327
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:03,590
So God's been the one who's 
given grace and mercy. 

328
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:09,700
He has been kind and loving and 
that out of that storehouse that

329
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:11,690
we're called to act toward the 
other. 

330
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,730
That's great. 
Hmm. 

331
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:20,590
That's good. 
So in that vein, ish, that vein 

332
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,490
adjacent, we've been talking 
around this idea of loving 

333
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:29,680
enemy. 
You asked on Sunday and had us 

334
00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:31,760
thinking through like, who is my
enemy? 

335
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,190
And I wanted to push that a 
little further. 

336
00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:39,650
And, um, I think that's a good 
question to ask. 

337
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:48,290
I wonder, can there also be, do 
you think, a danger in US maybe 

338
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,440
being a little bit too zealous 
to name enemies? 

339
00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:55,240
Is there something there that 
maybe we like to grab on to as 

340
00:18:55,250 --> 00:18:58,090
human beings? 
How do we navigate that tension?

341
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,710
Jesus saying very clearly, like,
love your enemy. 

342
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,590
The implication is you have 
enemies. 

343
00:19:04,910 --> 00:19:08,470
There's other questions like 
does he mean enemy to you 

344
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,470
exclusively or is this still is 
this A tag on those who hate you

345
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,950
and persecute you because of the
Son of man like those who are 

346
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,850
you are your enemy because of 
Jesus ask. 

347
00:19:17,860 --> 00:19:19,250
That question, didn't we? 
Yeah. 

348
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:22,790
So like, is this just my enemy 
or is this someone who's an 

349
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,690
enemy toward me because of 
actually because of what Jesus 

350
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,530
has done all of that. 
But so do you think we can jump 

351
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:33,310
to naming enemies too quickly? 
And how can we resist that a 

352
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,410
little bit? 
OK, so I think Christians, not 

353
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:42,720
all Christians, but some 
Christians can jump to having a 

354
00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:47,840
persecution complex. 
And as I said on Sunday, there 

355
00:19:47,850 --> 00:19:53,560
are Christians around the world 
who are facing genuine threat of

356
00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:58,380
imprisonment for for even just 
gathering to worship and to read

357
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:59,920
the Scripture and to sing 
together. 

358
00:19:59,930 --> 00:20:03,020
You know, that's a very real 
thing, but. 

359
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:07,540
Lots of contacts where that is 
not the case. 

360
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:13,700
And yet Christians and any 
potential removal of freedom or 

361
00:20:13,710 --> 00:20:17,500
any sort of even perceived 
removal of freedom of any kind 

362
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:23,670
or you know, just a realignment 
with a waning Western 

363
00:20:24,210 --> 00:20:28,500
Christianity, I will cry 
persecution. 

364
00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:31,520
Hmm. 
I say we not me personally I I 

365
00:20:31,530 --> 00:20:40,930
try my best to not do that. 
So I do think some Christians 

366
00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:43,910
can jump to using the word enemy
too quickly. 

367
00:20:43,970 --> 00:20:46,970
Hmm, I think I asked you the 
opposite. 

368
00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:52,490
Hmm. 
So I am very hesitant, almost 

369
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:56,840
perhaps to a detriment. 
I am almost hesitant to use the 

370
00:20:56,850 --> 00:21:00,620
word. 
I don't think the word in our 

371
00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:05,380
modern vernacular. 
I don't think it represents what

372
00:21:06,930 --> 00:21:09,160
what Jesus is intending here. 
Hmm. 

373
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,640
The problem is again, we don't 
have a good word, one word that 

374
00:21:14,650 --> 00:21:19,440
encapsulates what Jesus is 
saying, which I believe to be 

375
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:22,080
when Jesus says love your 
enemies, I said they would have 

376
00:21:22,090 --> 00:21:25,160
heard it as love your Roman 
occupiers. 

377
00:21:25,310 --> 00:21:28,510
Maybe if you were in a 
particular sect of Judaism, it 

378
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,380
would have been against other 
other sects within Judaism. 

379
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:38,120
Maybe skip ahead of the 100 a 
few 100 years and maybe there it

380
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:43,610
would be for Christians and or 
Jews to love one another because

381
00:21:43,620 --> 00:21:47,550
they were hateful toward one 
another, Christians and Muslims,

382
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:52,120
Jews and Muslims, right, so on 
and so forth. 

383
00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:55,880
Go go through history. 
You can name lots of enemies to 

384
00:21:55,890 --> 00:22:01,190
one another, and here we are in 
North America. 

385
00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:04,860
I don't have a great category 
for that. 

386
00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:12,460
I do have a great category for 
people who seem to be hateful 

387
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:17,680
toward me, toward people who 
seek to harm me in some way. 

388
00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:24,740
Hmm. 
Toward people who are actively 

389
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:34,020
seeking to bring the work of the
church down or even the work of 

390
00:22:34,030 --> 00:22:38,940
a particular church down to 
yeah, like so I think there 

391
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:43,550
there are many ways in which we 
could understand enemy in a 

392
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,920
modern context, but to the point
where for most contexts that we 

393
00:22:48,930 --> 00:22:53,120
encounter, at least here in the 
West, I don't know that enemy is

394
00:22:53,130 --> 00:22:56,350
the best word because of the 
connotation that makes sense. 

395
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:57,980
Yeah, No, I think that's 
helpful. 

396
00:22:57,990 --> 00:23:05,380
Like when I so my default is to 
look up definitions of all these

397
00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:09,470
words out of concordances and 
what do? 

398
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,010
You got. 
Yeah, I, I mean a lot. 

399
00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:16,410
I mean, there's a lot. 
And some of some of the 

400
00:23:16,420 --> 00:23:20,350
definition doesn't help and some
does help because you know, when

401
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:25,270
I'm looking at like the Greek 
language across being the word 

402
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,690
for enemy here, it just says 
properly an enemy. 

403
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,270
But I'm like so OK, great, fine 
still. 

404
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:33,450
But then it starts to break it 
down. 

405
00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:39,050
Somebody openly hostile, so 
openly hostile towards me. 

406
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:44,170
Irreconcilable hostility. 
Right Bent on inflicting arm. 

407
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:46,080
Yeah. 
And that one I go, OK, now it 

408
00:23:46,090 --> 00:23:49,590
starts to make sense because 
that I think we do. 

409
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,150
You're right. 
We do have categories for people

410
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,700
who just seem, for whatever 
reason, bent on on causing harm.

411
00:23:56,770 --> 00:23:59,460
Yeah. 
And you know, that harm could be

412
00:23:59,470 --> 00:24:00,420
physical. 
It could be emotional, 

413
00:24:00,430 --> 00:24:02,820
psychological, spiritual. 
There's a lot of different ways 

414
00:24:02,830 --> 00:24:07,750
in which we now understand harm.
Harm can be a little nebulous in

415
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,120
and of itself. 
For sure, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

416
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:13,310
But I think that's that's the 
piece where where Jesus says no 

417
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,890
love, love your enemies, and 
then he almost clarifies it. 

418
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:23,670
Prey do good for those who hate 
you, bless those who curse you 

419
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,720
and pray for those who mistreat 
you and so he's he's almost 

420
00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:31,060
saying love your enemies. 
What do I mean by that? 

421
00:24:31,130 --> 00:24:32,360
Here's. 
Some examples do. 

422
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:34,540
Yeah, Do good to those who hate 
you. 

423
00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:37,600
Bless those who curse you. 
Pray for those who mistreat you.

424
00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:40,320
And so he's giving. 
It's like he's giving the 

425
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,540
disciples and those early 
followers trying to live life 

426
00:24:44,550 --> 00:24:46,840
inside the Kingdom. 
He's giving them some really 

427
00:24:46,850 --> 00:24:49,340
fast answers to questions. 
Be like, well, who's my enemy? 

428
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:51,520
No, stop it. 
If somebody hates you, do good 

429
00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:52,820
to them. 
Right. 

430
00:24:52,990 --> 00:24:54,840
OK, well, what about like, if 
they curse me? 

431
00:24:54,850 --> 00:24:59,590
Well, bless them, right? 
What is the if if to to curse, 

432
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,200
to speak ill of somebody who 
says speak well of them? 

433
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:08,440
Yes, like so he's he's literally
turning all of these things. 

434
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:14,030
So to somebody who hates you, do
good, like fill the void that is

435
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,360
the evil or the darkness with 
what is good and light and full 

436
00:25:19,370 --> 00:25:23,480
of the Kingdom. 
So now we've got some really 

437
00:25:23,490 --> 00:25:25,960
concrete things. 
Pray for those who mistreat you.

438
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:29,920
And I think prayer in that 
moment, like we could be praying

439
00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:33,680
for them, maybe that God would 
change their hearts that God 

440
00:25:33,690 --> 00:25:36,410
would, that that God would 
change the trajectory of their 

441
00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:38,090
life in some way. 
Hmm. 

442
00:25:38,130 --> 00:25:41,960
But there's also like an 
effectiveness in praying because

443
00:25:41,970 --> 00:25:47,780
of what it does for me, right? 
That if I am saying God, I want 

444
00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:52,240
to pray for this person that is 
hurting me, that is abusing me, 

445
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,650
It it's it's about God, we pray 
transforming them, but also it's

446
00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:01,760
gonna transform me and my heart 
toward that person. 

447
00:26:01,830 --> 00:26:06,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
So continuing on through, we've 

448
00:26:06,170 --> 00:26:10,120
got this, these commands give to
everybody who asks, but if 

449
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:13,540
somebody takes what belongs to 
you, don't demand it back due to

450
00:26:13,550 --> 00:26:15,640
others as you would have them do
to you. 

451
00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:18,860
And then he double s down, 
right? 

452
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:21,190
Jesus double s down. 
And it's like, if you love those

453
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,610
who love you, what credit does 
that to you? 

454
00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:24,140
Like, who cares? 
Even sinners do that. 

455
00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:26,700
Like, come on, like how are you 
any different? 

456
00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:28,280
And the implication is you're 
not. 

457
00:26:28,290 --> 00:26:30,240
You're not any different than 
anybody else if you do this. 

458
00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:32,260
Everybody does this. 
This is like base human 

459
00:26:32,270 --> 00:26:37,930
expectation, but we get this 
line. 

460
00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:39,910
I think it's verse yeah, verse 
35. 

461
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,070
Then your reward will be great 
and you will be children of the 

462
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,890
Most High again. 
I love how you broke that down. 

463
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,870
Your reward will be great. dot 
dot dot. 

464
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:51,000
In other words, yeah, read it 
this way. 

465
00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:52,720
You will be children of the Most
High. 

466
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:55,940
That's the reward. 
This is proof that you're living

467
00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:58,740
inside the Kingdom. 
And there's benefit to living 

468
00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:00,510
inside the Kingdom. 
Absolutely there is. 

469
00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:06,960
I guess my question is, and I've
I along with others, this is, 

470
00:27:06,970 --> 00:27:09,140
this is not, you know, just this
me. 

471
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:15,820
Um, but through all of chapter 
6, is it not just in some way 

472
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,290
Christian karma, like we've been
wrestling out this tension 

473
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,580
between like, do, do what's 
right? 

474
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,210
Yeah, not to get a reward, but 
you'll also get a reward. 

475
00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:30,600
Like don't be like everybody 
else be like this. 

476
00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:32,960
But if you give, you're going to
give, you're going to get back. 

477
00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:36,660
And we're going to see it again 
this like tonight at tonight's 

478
00:27:36,670 --> 00:27:40,340
Bible study on Wednesday, 
whenever this is for you. 

479
00:27:40,430 --> 00:27:42,480
Today doesn't work on podcasts. 
I realize that. 

480
00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:46,200
But like, as we continue through
6 chapter 6, we're going to see 

481
00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:50,040
even more of this. 
Do good and it will come back. 

482
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,250
Good will be done to you. 
We're going to talk about a 

483
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:55,770
great measure being shaken up 
and then poured out on your lap.

484
00:27:55,780 --> 00:27:58,750
Like if you do good, you're 
gonna receive a great measure of

485
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,950
good things. 
How is it not just Christian 

486
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,280
karma? 
It's OK. 

487
00:28:03,290 --> 00:28:06,130
It's a good thought. 
So and actually someone, now 

488
00:28:06,140 --> 00:28:09,960
that you say that someone at my 
table group actually did say and

489
00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:13,080
there's someone who they're, you
know, I think relatively new to 

490
00:28:13,090 --> 00:28:17,290
faith in various ways. 
They were like this actually, 

491
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,510
like this kind of seems like 
what goes around comes around, 

492
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,560
you know? 
And I was like, oh, like, 

493
00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:24,270
that's, that's interesting. 
That's interesting that that 

494
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,070
someone who is less familiar for
those of us who have grown up 

495
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,320
the church, we probably read 
this a number of times over the 

496
00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:32,390
years. 
They're less familiar with this.

497
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,900
And they pulled out the Karma 
card, you know, OK, so where 

498
00:28:37,910 --> 00:28:41,700
does it where does it differ in 
my mind? 

499
00:28:42,910 --> 00:28:44,960
There, there is some overlap 
right there. 

500
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:50,300
I mean, in the same way that the
golden rule, as we said it's it 

501
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:54,460
is found it almost codified in 
every culture people group 

502
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:59,860
across time ever since 
civilization, that has been some

503
00:29:00,050 --> 00:29:03,900
rule, right? 
Maybe not an official law, but 

504
00:29:03,910 --> 00:29:08,720
it's you know, but the one thing
to note is that Jesus is 

505
00:29:08,730 --> 00:29:14,980
inversion of it leans positive 
due to others as you would have 

506
00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:17,740
them do to you. 
A lot of the other ones are more

507
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:21,100
along the lines of don't do to 
others what you don't want them 

508
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:23,020
to do to you. 
Like that's like it's, it's a 

509
00:29:23,030 --> 00:29:26,320
little bit more passive and 
Jesus is more active and 

510
00:29:26,330 --> 00:29:28,200
positive. 
So it's one thing to note. 

511
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:36,920
So the distinguishing feature 
for me that separates it from 

512
00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:40,450
karma has got to be grace and 
mercy. 

513
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:48,010
There's gotta be grace and mercy
in, in that you could claim that

514
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:51,570
when you know, when bad things 
are happening to someone, even 

515
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:56,440
to yourself, you know, then it 
causes us to reflect what have, 

516
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:59,180
what have I done? 
You know, cause if, if it's, if 

517
00:29:59,190 --> 00:30:01,060
it's gone around, it's now come 
back to me. 

518
00:30:01,770 --> 00:30:04,660
And, and I apologize if this is 
a very rudimentary understanding

519
00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:06,820
of karma. 
I am not an expert on Eastern 

520
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:11,020
religion. 
So, but, but I, I, I think that 

521
00:30:11,030 --> 00:30:16,140
when we take a, when we take 
away grace and mercy from the 

522
00:30:16,150 --> 00:30:21,790
equation, it kind of is karma 
that you'll get what you deserve

523
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:30,540
and and you'll get what you get.
In this case, Jesus is saying 

524
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:38,960
even if someone doesn't deserve 
something, even if someone is 

525
00:30:39,530 --> 00:30:44,510
quote UN quote, undeserving of 
love extended anyway. 

526
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:48,000
Hmm. 
That that is the way of the 

527
00:30:48,010 --> 00:30:55,020
Kingdom and, and in some ways 
karma is based on fairness, that

528
00:30:55,030 --> 00:30:59,440
it, it feels fair. 
And I would argue that much of 

529
00:30:59,450 --> 00:31:06,170
Jesus's ministry and his his 
entire life and his death and 

530
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:09,840
resurrection are about what is 
not fair. 

531
00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:15,240
That, that it is not fair that 
Jesus took that upon himself for

532
00:31:15,250 --> 00:31:19,750
me. 
It is not fair that I as a, as a

533
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:25,250
broken, sinful human, get to 
receive the benefit of that. 

534
00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:26,050
Right. 
Yeah. 

535
00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:33,750
And and so that is where karma 
while there, I think you could 

536
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,690
actually draw some other 
passages from the the rest of 

537
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:41,250
Scripture that have a little 
little inkling of that, right. 

538
00:31:43,450 --> 00:31:45,920
But Jesus kind of blows it up. 
Yep. 

539
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,720
Yeah, the cross kind of 
interrupts. 

540
00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:51,270
I think the cross interrupts the
flow of karma as it were, right?

541
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,320
Yeah, Yeah, I think one of the 
other things that's worth 

542
00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:56,630
noting. 
And again, it's been a minute 

543
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,540
since we've spent time studying,
since I've spent time studying 

544
00:32:01,550 --> 00:32:07,500
Eastern religions. 
So again, intro very rudimentary

545
00:32:07,510 --> 00:32:15,740
understanding here in what I'm 
about to say, but karma in most 

546
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:20,880
of the way it's spoken about is 
toward freedom of suffering. 

547
00:32:21,710 --> 00:32:27,700
So the end result or the 
ultimate result of buildup of 

548
00:32:27,710 --> 00:32:36,200
karma is these cycles of birth, 
rebirth toward freedom, release 

549
00:32:36,210 --> 00:32:38,560
from suffering. 
That's back to me now. 

550
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:41,140
That's. 
The ultimate goal is to release 

551
00:32:41,150 --> 00:32:44,680
your body, your soul, your mind,
your spirit from suffering. 

552
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:49,000
And so yeah, like the what goes 
around comes around is kind of 

553
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:54,800
like colloquial everyday. 
This is how we understand life. 

554
00:32:54,810 --> 00:32:58,430
Like if I do this, you know, 
yeah, this is going back. 

555
00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:01,960
Exactly. 
Proper understanding of karma 

556
00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:06,140
includes this toward an end. 
And that end is freedom of 

557
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:08,300
suffering. 
And Jesus actually says no. 

558
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:12,500
The way the way into the Kingdom
is by is through suffering. 

559
00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:17,220
And you see that even in this 
passage, there was a number of 

560
00:33:17,230 --> 00:33:19,880
commentators, I can't recall 
which ones off the top of my 

561
00:33:19,890 --> 00:33:24,980
head, that highlighted this idea
that Jesus is actually calling 

562
00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:30,760
us in some ways to suffer here. 
That there is a that there is a,

563
00:33:31,010 --> 00:33:37,560
a pain of sorts in, in laying 
down our pride, in laying down 

564
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:46,330
what we think is right and just 
and saying, I, we'll choose a 

565
00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:51,540
better way. 
I will choose a higher way that 

566
00:33:51,550 --> 00:33:56,000
is something that is so 
difficult to do and it and it's 

567
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:59,900
there's there's suffering and 
sacrifice in that process and. 

568
00:33:59,910 --> 00:34:03,140
That's why it's important that 
we start with self sacrificial 

569
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:04,480
love. 
Yes. 

570
00:34:04,550 --> 00:34:08,770
Right, that's the understanding 
of agape love has being one that

571
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:14,510
is willing to sacrifice of self 
for the other, which in my mind 

572
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,510
is just completely blows up the 
idea of it being Christian karma

573
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:19,190
because it can't be that. 
Yep. 

574
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:21,590
No, I love it. 
I think that's great. 

575
00:34:22,070 --> 00:34:27,070
OK, moving on some of the other 
questions that we've been we've 

576
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,830
been talking around, I think 
would be good to land on in some

577
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,850
specific ways. 
So we talked just briefly today,

578
00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:42,110
and you mentioned loving people 
when life is hard, when 

579
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,920
relationships are difficult, 
when there is even, you know, 

580
00:34:47,929 --> 00:34:53,780
degrees of abuse, when you have 
a dysfunctional, broken 

581
00:34:53,790 --> 00:34:59,000
relationship that can't be 
mended for one reason or 

582
00:34:59,010 --> 00:35:03,550
another. 
What does it begin to look like 

583
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,750
to love in those contexts? 
Yeah. 

584
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,300
And, you know, like, let's just 
double down again on this idea. 

585
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:16,770
Like loving somebody doesn't 
mean being a doormat. 

586
00:35:16,830 --> 00:35:21,800
Yeah, getting walked all over, 
trampled, putting ourselves in 

587
00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:24,180
unsafe situation time and time 
again. 

588
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:30,150
So help us understand love and 
boundaries. 

589
00:35:30,220 --> 00:35:31,950
OHS, funny you mentioned that, 
right? 

590
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,670
Well, Yep. 
Where to go OHS there's this 

591
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,100
book here I just found on the 
ground just. 

592
00:35:39,110 --> 00:35:40,780
Like that it's. 
It's called Boundaries. 

593
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:44,190
It's been a minute since I've 
I've. 

594
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,050
I have read that book. 
Yeah, but Grant put that in my 

595
00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:49,910
lap. 
Right here here. 

596
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:52,590
Here I'm going to prom you for a
question talk about this. 

597
00:35:54,510 --> 00:36:01,200
No boundaries is kind of the 
answer in some ways in that it 

598
00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:05,570
is not. 
It is not a requirement for me 

599
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:10,570
to be in regular and direct 
communication with someone for 

600
00:36:10,580 --> 00:36:12,510
me to love them. 
Hmm. 

601
00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:19,480
I have friends who I love that I
haven't seen in several years. 

602
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:22,960
You know, one of them called me 
out of the blue yesterday, which

603
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:24,140
was kind of a nice little 
surprise. 

604
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:26,480
Hmm. 
I was like getting gas and, and 

605
00:36:26,490 --> 00:36:29,370
he called me up and I was like, 
dude, like it's been so good to 

606
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:32,030
hear your voice, you know, but I
haven't seen him in like 3 

607
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,280
years, you know, I'd like to 
change that. 

608
00:36:34,290 --> 00:36:36,940
But in the same way, you know 
for people that that are 

609
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:40,400
difficult, people that have been
abusive, say you have a like a 

610
00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:46,640
narcissistic relative, say you 
have an abusive relative or 

611
00:36:46,650 --> 00:36:51,560
friend or whatever. 
Sometimes the most loving thing 

612
00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:59,890
we can do is have boundaries 
and, and say I, I love you and I

613
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:03,680
love you too much to allow this 
to continue. 

614
00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:06,530
Yeah. 
And I, and I have friends and 

615
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:12,550
family who have, who have made 
that hard call with, with direct

616
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,670
family members saying I cannot 
be in a, in a, an active 

617
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,510
relationship with you right now.
You can still say you love that 

618
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,110
person in the same way that 
again, with agape love, it 

619
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,650
doesn't require feelings. 
It doesn't even require that I 

620
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:32,300
know the person that I can, I 
can say regarding, you know, 

621
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:34,370
I'll just use the easiest 
example in the world. 

622
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:38,290
If I lived, you know, if I lived
in the 1940s, you know, like to 

623
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:41,490
be able to say I, I have to, God
calls me to love Hitler. 

624
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:45,350
Like that's, that's a, you know,
obviously a bit of a 

625
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,210
stereotypical example, but I 
think it drives home the point. 

626
00:37:48,220 --> 00:37:52,200
I I likely would have never met 
Hitler had I lived in the 40s. 

627
00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:59,230
And yet that does not require me
to be in relationship with them 

628
00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:00,710
actively. 
Hmm. 

629
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:06,120
But I think that that's a little
bit too obviously I there of an 

630
00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:08,640
example like like bring it home 
again, a little bit more to 

631
00:38:08,650 --> 00:38:11,810
family. 
If I have a family member that 

632
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:15,670
is acting and behaving poorly to
me, I don't have to put up with 

633
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,570
that. 
I don't have to be a doormat. 

634
00:38:17,660 --> 00:38:23,590
I can be, I can be in whatever 
level of communication I am 

635
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,950
comfortable with, right? 
That if their presence is 

636
00:38:30,540 --> 00:38:33,610
challenging to me or to use more
of like a like the clinical word

637
00:38:33,620 --> 00:38:39,360
activating to me, I don't have 
to do that. 

638
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:41,800
I don't have to be in, in their 
presence. 

639
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:43,260
I've done that with family 
myself. 

640
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:46,580
There I had a family member that
I did not see for 2-3 years 

641
00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:50,490
because I I said I I cannot do 
this right now. 

642
00:38:52,510 --> 00:38:55,750
And that was arguably the most 
loving thing I could have done 

643
00:38:55,950 --> 00:38:57,760
in that moment. 
Hmm. 

644
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,960
So that's what I want to press 
in on because I think that we 

645
00:39:01,010 --> 00:39:05,660
can sometimes, yeah. 
Like in here's here's the 

646
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:08,060
interesting thing. 
I think we do this to ourselves 

647
00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:12,180
like a very rarely do I hear 
somebody else say to like a 

648
00:39:12,190 --> 00:39:14,850
friend or family member, oh, you
have to love that person. 

649
00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:18,020
You're a Christian. 
Like, you know, we do this 

650
00:39:18,030 --> 00:39:22,920
ourselves, though we think God 
calls me to be loving. 

651
00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:27,040
So therefore I need to do AB and
C. 

652
00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:32,540
Inside, I gotta set aside these 
these awful feelings I'm having 

653
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:33,620
inside. 
Yeah. 

654
00:39:33,630 --> 00:39:36,420
But feelings in this case that I
think we should honor, you know,

655
00:39:36,570 --> 00:39:40,590
feelings that are probably there
for a reason, just to keep the 

656
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,550
peace, right? 
Or continue to put myself into a

657
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,850
situation where I continue to 
receive harm. 

658
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:48,750
Yeah, right. 
Because, well, that's what God 

659
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,810
calls me to love this person. 
So I need to go to that family 

660
00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:56,340
dinner every week, or I need to 
go to that, you know, enter into

661
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:58,650
the relationship whatever 
capacity I need to see that 

662
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:03,270
person, etc. 
And I think the thing that we 

663
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:10,630
all need to wrestle with. 
Is the reality that, like you 

664
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:16,490
said, sometimes the most loving 
thing is to establish boundary 

665
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:24,830
because for variety of reasons, 
but one of them, the not the 

666
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:30,220
least significant is if I, if I 
and like I, I don't, I'm not 

667
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:32,180
actively in this situation right
now. 

668
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:35,680
Like I don't, I don't have this 
situation in my life. 

669
00:40:35,730 --> 00:40:39,380
But if I'm continuing to put 
myself into a relationship and 

670
00:40:39,390 --> 00:40:42,930
invest in a relationship where 
I'm continuing to be hurt, well,

671
00:40:42,940 --> 00:40:46,870
then what am I also doing? 
I'm continuing to enable that 

672
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,240
person to hurt. 
And so it's this, it is this 

673
00:40:52,250 --> 00:40:59,990
cycle that is only going to have
a potential for healing if it's 

674
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,870
arrested, that cycle needs to be
broken. 

675
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,410
So in order for there to be 
repair in any relationship, 

676
00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:11,790
there also needs to be rupture 
and sometimes boundary is 

677
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,940
required. 
You know, the in in the long 

678
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:18,980
term. 
Now, I'm I'm not saying that 

679
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:21,820
every single relationship is 
gonna have this degree of 

680
00:41:21,830 --> 00:41:24,120
healing. 
No, many won't, and that's OK. 

681
00:41:24,130 --> 00:41:27,720
Absolutely. 
But I think what many of us need

682
00:41:27,730 --> 00:41:32,010
to hear is that reality that to 
continue to put yourself in that

683
00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:34,300
situation is not only doing 
yourself harm, but it's 

684
00:41:35,070 --> 00:41:37,540
continuing to allow somebody 
else to perpetrate harm. 

685
00:41:38,450 --> 00:41:42,740
And sometimes that boundary, 
like that boundary is good. 

686
00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:44,410
Yeah. 
And sometimes that boundary can 

687
00:41:44,420 --> 00:41:46,080
be a wake up call for somebody. 
Yeah. 

688
00:41:46,130 --> 00:41:50,350
And somebody needs, you know, a 
family member or friend or 

689
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,980
somebody they love and think 
they love and respect and are 

690
00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:56,440
actually harming and hurting to 
say, OK, no more of this. 

691
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:58,580
I'm not going to put myself in 
this situation. 

692
00:41:59,270 --> 00:42:03,880
The onus is now on you to to 
realize and recognize what 

693
00:42:03,890 --> 00:42:08,510
rupture has occurred, like what 
brokenness has taken place, and 

694
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,550
to move into it now. 
I guess that's like, I, I think 

695
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,150
I'm an optimist most of the 
time. 

696
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:17,250
It's not, you know, it, it, it 
not everything is going to be 

697
00:42:17,260 --> 00:42:20,590
neatly tied up and, and fixed in
the end. 

698
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,330
But I think, too, I see too many
people continuing to put 

699
00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:30,620
themselves in harm's way because
they think that being actively 

700
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:33,930
engaged in the relationship in 
exactly the way everybody 

701
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:37,510
expects and wants is the loving 
thing to do. 

702
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,280
Yeah. 
And what we're saying is it's 

703
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:43,790
not. 
And I will say I know there's a 

704
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:52,710
story of someone I know who they
were in an abusive marriage and 

705
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,140
they tried to leave. 
They tried to, you know, assert 

706
00:42:55,150 --> 00:42:59,800
themselves and they went to the 
persons church. 

707
00:42:59,810 --> 00:43:01,890
This is not anywhere in this 
area. 

708
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:05,670
So it's, you know, this is many 
years ago, they went to the 

709
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:12,870
church and the church said you 
need to go back and you need to 

710
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,320
submit. 
Hmm. 

711
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:20,050
And you need to, you know, Yep. 
Just just endure, you know, and,

712
00:43:20,060 --> 00:43:25,950
and, and so I, I want to say 
very clearly that that is 

713
00:43:26,220 --> 00:43:29,150
antithetical to what Jesus is 
saying. 

714
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:36,940
And nowhere is that an 
acceptable thing for a church to

715
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:38,450
say or do. 
Yep. 

716
00:43:38,490 --> 00:43:42,670
Unlike physically reacting, 
Yeah, I'm physically because I 

717
00:43:42,730 --> 00:43:46,540
have family who went through 
that exact not, Yeah, like 

718
00:43:46,590 --> 00:43:48,960
extended family who went through
that exact same scenario and who

719
00:43:48,970 --> 00:43:51,080
have all walked away from the 
church because of that exact 

720
00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:54,880
reality. 
And like, it breaks my heart and

721
00:43:54,890 --> 00:43:57,020
it also makes me really angry 
and so. 

722
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:59,500
Angry. 
And I said that to the person. 

723
00:43:59,510 --> 00:44:04,940
I said, like, I am so angry on 
your behalf that that church 

724
00:44:05,590 --> 00:44:08,310
betrayed in that way. 
Yeah, you know, And that was 

725
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,640
like a good moment of healing 
for her where, where she was 

726
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:16,540
able to to rag realize like, OK,
not all, not all churches are 

727
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:22,390
like that. 
Yeah, so that was hard, but 

728
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,010
super, super meaningful to be 
able to unpack that with her and

729
00:44:27,020 --> 00:44:31,620
to untangle some of the stuff 
that that, you know, Christians,

730
00:44:31,780 --> 00:44:37,750
unfortunately can someone's 
weaponized scripture to to fit a

731
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:43,530
particular belief structure. 
And I would say that is the 

732
00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:44,990
opposite of what Jesus is saying
here. 

733
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:47,840
Hmm. 
In in Jesus is examples. 

734
00:44:47,980 --> 00:44:52,040
They are in some ways about the 
person asserting themselves. 

735
00:44:52,050 --> 00:44:55,940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I appreciate you saying that. 

736
00:44:55,950 --> 00:45:00,930
And I think the sad reality is 
that this is the common, it 

737
00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:05,390
seems like common place that 
many people have these same 

738
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,190
stories. 
And you know, I think about now 

739
00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:15,130
how many generations have been 
impacted by, you know, my like, 

740
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:22,570
yeah, a, a family, yeah, that is
now 3 generations impacted 

741
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:30,460
because of that exact decision. 
Yeah, 3 generations not engaged 

742
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:36,460
at all with church or faith or 
yeah, any any type type of 

743
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:45,290
meaningful spiritual practice. 
Yeah, because of 11 church, Hmm,

744
00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:50,480
interacting with one couple. 
OK, so not to do like a harsh 

745
00:45:50,490 --> 00:45:52,510
transition here, but harsh 
transition is hard. 

746
00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:54,440
It's hard to. 
Transition out of that. 

747
00:45:54,510 --> 00:45:58,500
Let's talk about the positive 
potential here, right? 

748
00:45:58,510 --> 00:46:03,020
Because I think we could go 
through many different 

749
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:07,860
iterations of where we've seen 
churches and people and where we

750
00:46:07,870 --> 00:46:09,820
ourselves have failed at doing 
this. 

751
00:46:09,830 --> 00:46:14,680
Well, let's talk about the 
positive side, which is like, 

752
00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:18,570
yeah, I got a neighbor. 
And, you know, that neighbor's 

753
00:46:18,620 --> 00:46:25,040
constantly, you know, the 
aggressor. 

754
00:46:25,110 --> 00:46:27,540
Yeah. 
Not in like overly egregious 

755
00:46:27,550 --> 00:46:33,730
ways, but inconsistent and yeah,
negative ways. 

756
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:39,750
Or the, I don't know, the same 
car that cuts you off at the 

757
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,020
same point of your commute every
single day now, but just like 

758
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:48,590
the the everyday moments of life
where we can begin to flip the 

759
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,230
script because that's really 
what Jesus is saying. 

760
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,670
Flip the script, right? 
Somebody slaps you across the 

761
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,990
face. 
They are claiming authority over

762
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,500
you. 
They've taken something from 

763
00:46:58,510 --> 00:46:59,730
you. 
He says no, turn the other 

764
00:46:59,740 --> 00:47:03,250
cheek, force them to slap you 
with the front side of their 

765
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:07,350
hand, which I love the your like
demonstration of all of that, 

766
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:08,930
but what does? 
Individual. 

767
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:09,810
Me too. 
Yeah. 

768
00:47:09,820 --> 00:47:13,630
What does that say? 
Is it is it reclaims not 

769
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,690
authority over that person, but 
it reclaims equality? 

770
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:17,770
Yeah, that's what Jesus is 
saying. 

771
00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:22,050
He's like, don't let anybody 
take from you what is given by 

772
00:47:22,060 --> 00:47:26,610
God. 
And so you're saying, hey, like,

773
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:28,710
maintain equal footing. 
I don't know. 

774
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:32,910
How do we begin to love our 
everyday enemies? 

775
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:38,690
Yeah, because I mean, the 
reality is in most of our lives,

776
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:45,350
we are we this is gonna come up 
with family, neighbors, 

777
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:48,850
coworkers, things like that, 
right. 

778
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:55,130
You know, very, very rarely, I 
can't, I can't think of a entity

779
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:59,990
like a, a government or a nation
or a people group that is 

780
00:48:00,070 --> 00:48:02,430
currently actively working 
against me. 

781
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,230
Now that may not be the case for
everyone, but in general, this 

782
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:10,170
becomes at a very personal level
of the spheres in which we find 

783
00:48:10,180 --> 00:48:11,540
ourselves every day. 
Right. 

784
00:48:11,590 --> 00:48:17,810
So like I'm trying to think of a
simple example and I don't want 

785
00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:20,330
to provide an example where I've
done it poorly because I have 

786
00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:23,400
done it poorly. 
But you know, would Love 

787
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:26,580
Actually, I'm going to use my my
neighbor as a positive example. 

788
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:32,380
OK, so, so my neighbor, nice 
guy, nice guy, a little, a 

789
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:35,720
little rowdy, like, you know, 
he's a, you know, anyway, he 

790
00:48:35,730 --> 00:48:40,410
often has parties and whatnot. 
So a number of years ago, New 

791
00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:44,710
Year's Eve, fireworks went off 
not at midnight as they 

792
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,010
intended. 
I went off at about 3:00 AM, I 

793
00:48:47,020 --> 00:48:48,900
think. 
I think they had too much to 

794
00:48:48,910 --> 00:48:53,300
drink and. 
They celebrated New Year's in 

795
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:55,090
Vancouver. 
That's right, that's right. 

796
00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:57,930
So they they they missed it and 
we're like, oh, shoot, we better

797
00:48:57,940 --> 00:49:01,200
use our fireworks and wake the 
whole neighborhood in the 

798
00:49:01,210 --> 00:49:06,900
neighborhood was not happy. 
What I appreciate though, So I 

799
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:11,570
was messaging him the next day 
and and was like, hey, I got 

800
00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:17,640
like fireworks shells all over 
my yard and car and driveway and

801
00:49:17,650 --> 00:49:19,370
and he was like, dude, I'm so 
sorry. 

802
00:49:19,380 --> 00:49:21,950
Like I'm gonna come by and clean
it up once I'm, you know, up and

803
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,630
out, I'm no problem. 
Got this. 

804
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:27,860
I'll take care of it. 
And ever since then, ever since 

805
00:49:27,870 --> 00:49:29,840
then, this has been really cool.
So all of a sudden he's been 

806
00:49:29,850 --> 00:49:32,890
inviting us to like some of us 
like he bought a smoker and like

807
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:35,440
had a whole bunch of people over
for big for a big get together 

808
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:37,690
for dinner last year. 
And then this past weekend, it 

809
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:41,230
was Victoria Day weekend here in
Canada and and he was like about

810
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,150
fireworks. 
I'm going to go do it at the 

811
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,440
corner lot that's empty. 
Why don't you and your daughter 

812
00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:47,390
come out and watch the 
fireworks? 

813
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,230
At 8:30 PM. 
At an appropriate, it was more 

814
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:53,390
like 930, but I let her stay up 
late, you know, so like, and it 

815
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,420
was actually like a beautiful 
little like, I don't know, like 

816
00:49:56,490 --> 00:49:58,060
a good. 
I think that could have gone 

817
00:49:58,070 --> 00:49:58,970
real sour. 
Yeah. 

818
00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:00,380
You know, for on both of our 
ends. 

819
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:02,140
Yeah, right. 
It could have gone real sour 

820
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:05,240
where I could have really dug my
heels in and said like, bro, 

821
00:50:05,250 --> 00:50:07,720
you're you are destroying my 
stuff. 

822
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:08,920
He didn't actually destroy 
anything. 

823
00:50:08,930 --> 00:50:10,740
But like, you know, I could have
exaggerated. 

824
00:50:11,150 --> 00:50:15,890
I could have gotten very 
offended, but I was like, man, 

825
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:18,120
that's not a good way to be a 
neighbor, you know? 

826
00:50:18,130 --> 00:50:21,900
And and I think equally him on 
the other hand, he was like, OK,

827
00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:25,820
I need to maybe temper things a 
little bit here, you know, and I

828
00:50:25,830 --> 00:50:28,800
was like, that's actually a 
beautiful picture of what good 

829
00:50:28,810 --> 00:50:30,220
neighboring it. 
It was not perfect. 

830
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:34,060
You know, there are times when 
when, you know, we have to cover

831
00:50:34,070 --> 00:50:36,180
our child's ears when we're 
outside. 

832
00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:40,450
But it's, it's really like, I 
think there's something 

833
00:50:40,460 --> 00:50:41,630
beautiful there. 
Yeah. 

834
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:46,610
But I recognize that sometimes 
we are trying with our neighbors

835
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:49,750
and they are not always going to
reciprocate in that way. 

836
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,850
I I'm almost tempted to use the 
kind of it's a cliched phrase, 

837
00:50:56,860 --> 00:50:59,050
but I almost feel like killing 
with kindness. 

838
00:50:59,220 --> 00:51:04,630
Like keep going. 
Don't let them get the better of

839
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:10,500
you. 
Hmm, drop, drop off a, you know,

840
00:51:10,590 --> 00:51:15,780
a box of cookies and a note and 
maybe even in that note because 

841
00:51:15,790 --> 00:51:18,400
in in in efforts of not being, 
you know, a, you know, a 

842
00:51:18,410 --> 00:51:19,990
doormat. 
If there's something that 

843
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,030
they're doing that is bugging 
the heck out of you, maybe like 

844
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,100
put in a little, a little 
reminder. 

845
00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:30,130
Hey, love being your neighbor. 
Wonder if we could work on this.

846
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,430
And if they still don't 
reciprocate, keep going, keep 

847
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,150
going. 
They will be frustrated by how 

848
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:42,230
how happy you are. 
Maybe that's idealistic. 

849
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:49,300
Maybe that is is to, you know, 
yeah, too optimistic about human

850
00:51:49,310 --> 00:51:52,440
nature. 
But I like to think that if we 

851
00:51:52,450 --> 00:51:59,790
can maintain a level head, not 
allow our emotions, the negative

852
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,710
emotions to get in the way, that
we could actually make a 

853
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:04,890
difference. 
Yeah. 

854
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,290
Yeah, I love. 
I think you had a line in your 

855
00:52:09,300 --> 00:52:11,750
sermon that said something I'm 
I'm gonna miss. 

856
00:52:12,020 --> 00:52:18,010
Quote it, but resist the 
temptation to fight back and try

857
00:52:18,020 --> 00:52:21,350
to be reflective instead of 
reactive. 

858
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,540
Um, yeah, my kids are watching 
Daniel Tiger. 

859
00:52:26,030 --> 00:52:28,230
He sings a song. 
I'm not gonna sing it because 

860
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:31,350
when you feel so mad that you 
wanna roar, take a deep breath 

861
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,630
and count to 4. 
I love that. 

862
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:39,980
Anyway, so we're working on that
one, but like I, I, I like that.

863
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:43,900
Keep going. 
There is a call to perseverance 

864
00:52:44,350 --> 00:52:48,620
and just steady doing the next 
right thing because it's the 

865
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:52,040
right thing. 
And don't get sucked into this 

866
00:52:52,050 --> 00:52:58,320
for that and back and forth. 
Don't get sucked down to 

867
00:52:58,390 --> 00:53:02,100
someone's level. 
Don't get pulled over like, you 

868
00:53:02,110 --> 00:53:07,850
know, don't allow somebody else 
to define who and how you are 

869
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:11,010
right is really, I think what 
what we're after. 

870
00:53:11,620 --> 00:53:14,190
You had another line that you 
brought up and I think it was a 

871
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,250
quote from somebody, and I don't
remember off the top of my head 

872
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:23,550
who it was, but who said the 
Christian is the one who does 

873
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,590
the extra thing? 
Yes, William Barclay, the 

874
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:32,420
Christian ethic is, yeah, the 
Christian ethic is the extra 

875
00:53:32,430 --> 00:53:34,080
thing to do. 
The extra thing? 

876
00:53:34,090 --> 00:53:36,710
Doing the extra thing, yeah, 
that, that that was a really 

877
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:40,100
helpful line because it doesn't 
have to be a big thing. 

878
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:41,860
Hmm. 
It's just the extra thing a 

879
00:53:41,870 --> 00:53:42,800
little. 
Bit more, yeah. 

880
00:53:42,810 --> 00:53:48,300
Yeah, I, I didn't use this 
example in in the sermon, but it

881
00:53:48,310 --> 00:53:52,160
it made me think of it made me 
think of when Steve Jobs was 

882
00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:54,600
still with us and would do his 
Big Apple presentations. 

883
00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:58,640
I always watch them and then he 
always go one more thing. 

884
00:53:58,830 --> 00:54:01,190
Yeah, one more, one more. 
And then it was the biggest 

885
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,040
thing. 
No, I know everybody. 

886
00:54:03,050 --> 00:54:05,370
Knew. 
And that was kind of bring in my

887
00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:06,740
mind a little bit. 
I was like, you know what? 

888
00:54:06,750 --> 00:54:07,930
Everything was kind of status 
quo. 

889
00:54:07,940 --> 00:54:11,580
And then one more thing. 
Oh, you know, yeah, yeah. 

890
00:54:11,590 --> 00:54:13,340
It could be cool for Christians 
to live that way. 

891
00:54:13,390 --> 00:54:14,440
One. 
More thing. 

892
00:54:14,570 --> 00:54:18,360
Yeah. 
And sorry, was there more to 

893
00:54:18,370 --> 00:54:20,300
that question or just muse on 
that or? 

894
00:54:20,310 --> 00:54:24,100
No, no, exactly that I think. 
I think that's language that 

895
00:54:24,110 --> 00:54:28,240
helps maybe for this to resonate
every day. 

896
00:54:28,860 --> 00:54:33,880
Supposed to, you know, I like I 
think our minds naturally go to 

897
00:54:33,890 --> 00:54:37,360
the biggest and baddest of 
situations and enemies and 

898
00:54:37,410 --> 00:54:41,440
etcetera. 
And we lose sight of the fact 

899
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:46,010
that really what Jesus is doing 
here is giving like it's this is

900
00:54:46,090 --> 00:54:52,210
Christian ethics for the road. 
This is for, for, you know, on 

901
00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:58,880
the way in the, you know, on the
journey, in the course of life. 

902
00:54:59,850 --> 00:55:06,850
They're they're not, they're not
like he's not got a solution and

903
00:55:06,860 --> 00:55:09,850
a scenario for every single 
thing that's going to happen to 

904
00:55:09,860 --> 00:55:12,030
you, right? 
This is not, it's not a manual 

905
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,790
to be like, well, so buddy cut 
me off when I was already 

906
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,490
stopped at a stop sign and he 
blew through. 

907
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:22,110
So I'm like, you can't find that
page where Jesus says if this, 

908
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,120
then that, right? 
That's not exactly what he's 

909
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:27,150
after. 
It's not a if this then that 

910
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:34,150
sort of solution to everything. 
What it is, is a general way of 

911
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:38,250
being that defines the 
Christian, or the one who's 

912
00:55:38,260 --> 00:55:41,250
living inside the Kingdom, as 
being different. 

913
00:55:41,260 --> 00:55:47,900
This is about right heartedness.
Like your, your heart being, uh,

914
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:53,240
you know, directed toward Jesus 
or pointed in the right 

915
00:55:53,250 --> 00:55:58,220
direction and then continuing to
do the next right thing in that 

916
00:55:58,230 --> 00:56:00,720
direction. 
As opposed to it being, yeah, 

917
00:56:00,730 --> 00:56:04,240
just this solution for every 
different scenario that that may

918
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:08,440
arise. 
I think what he's saying is do 

919
00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:12,360
the extra thing. 
And it's going to be an everyday

920
00:56:13,310 --> 00:56:15,980
faithfulness just in little 
things. 

921
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:18,480
Hmm. 
And then in the bigger things as

922
00:56:18,490 --> 00:56:24,220
well, It's in little even just a
little attitude adjustments. 

923
00:56:25,110 --> 00:56:29,320
And I say that for me, I've been
thinking upon. 

924
00:56:30,490 --> 00:56:35,020
After the sermon on Sunday, I 
had a little rest time and then 

925
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:37,580
we drove to my inlaws for 
dinner, as we often do on Sunday

926
00:56:37,590 --> 00:56:40,460
evenings. 
And I didn't get cut off. 

927
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:42,790
There was no one did anything to
me. 

928
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,570
But I saw a particular vehicle 
that I have a particular disdain

929
00:56:47,580 --> 00:56:48,390
for. 
Well. 

930
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,210
I saw one too this week. 
And and fill in the blanks. 

931
00:56:52,380 --> 00:56:54,970
I know, I know. 
I'm not going to say it, but I 

932
00:56:54,980 --> 00:56:59,330
know. 
And I started, I started lipping

933
00:56:59,340 --> 00:57:03,910
off a little. 
I started and, and my 

934
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:08,530
conscience, AKA my wonderful 
wife, she called me out and 

935
00:57:08,540 --> 00:57:10,130
she's like, wait, I mean, no, 
great. 

936
00:57:10,140 --> 00:57:12,030
And she was not she was teaching
Sunday school. 

937
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,670
She so she didn't hear my OK, 
but she knew what the topic was.

938
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,190
OK. 
She knew what the topic was. 

939
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,630
Yeah. 
And so she was like, wait, what 

940
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,130
did you preach about this 
morning? 

941
00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:26,110
I said, God, Dang it, Dang it. 
And she's so right, you know, as

942
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,510
as she always is. 
And she'll be happy to know that

943
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:33,070
I, I said that. 
But honestly, like it's those 

944
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,390
little attitude adjustments 
where I was like, yeah, like, 

945
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,730
why am I? 
Why do I care so much about that

946
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:41,610
thing? 
And like, that's not to say we 

947
00:57:41,620 --> 00:57:46,500
can't have genuine gripes about 
about situations and people and.

948
00:57:46,590 --> 00:57:48,760
Ethics. 
Ethics and all, all of those 

949
00:57:48,770 --> 00:57:51,420
things. 
But but it's, you know, what is 

950
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:53,660
happening in my heart in that 
moment. 

951
00:57:54,010 --> 00:57:56,120
I need to, I need to sit with 
that. 

952
00:57:56,130 --> 00:57:57,680
I need to reflect on that a 
little. 

953
00:57:57,910 --> 00:58:01,930
We're headed this week more so 
as well is like, I think more 

954
00:58:01,940 --> 00:58:05,960
than anything, this is like 
holding a mirror up to yourself,

955
00:58:06,310 --> 00:58:08,160
right? 
And I think I might actually do 

956
00:58:08,170 --> 00:58:09,880
that. 
So if you come on Sunday, I 

957
00:58:09,890 --> 00:58:12,260
might, I might have a mirror up 
on the stage with me because I 

958
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:16,010
think it is like as much as we 
want it to be that, like I'll 

959
00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:19,650
hold a mirror up to you so you 
can see yourself. 

960
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,340
Really, these are just my notes.
This isn't a mirror. 

961
00:58:22,350 --> 00:58:24,270
These are These are. 
All the questions. 

962
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,310
Thank you. 
Well, listen, it's nice when 

963
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,420
it's small, but when I try to 
write on that big board in the 

964
00:58:28,430 --> 00:58:29,930
sanctuary, it just goes 
sideways. 

965
00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:34,060
So what Jesus is doing is 
holding up a mirror to yourself,

966
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,950
right? 
And like so much of what 

967
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:44,390
scripture does is we I, because 
I'm human, I want to make it 

968
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,400
about the other person and be 
like, this is going to help you.

969
00:58:47,470 --> 00:58:52,310
He's such a, you know, a good 
person when really it, it can, 

970
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,870
it's meant to convict my heart 
1st and change my life. 

971
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,490
And so I think the, the small, 
the small things everyday make 

972
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:02,990
the big things easier. 
And like, I don't like that I'm 

973
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,490
an all or nothing kind of 
person. 

974
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:08,430
It's like in or out, like just 
tell me which way we're going. 

975
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:14,320
But really, this is a case where
it's the everyday discipline of 

976
00:59:14,330 --> 00:59:17,090
those moments where like I'm 
gonna intentionally choose to 

977
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:21,130
not think down this path and I'm
going to think down this path 

978
00:59:21,140 --> 00:59:24,110
instead. 
It's that everyday discipline of

979
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:30,580
doing that that helps you face 
the big monsters in your life, 

980
00:59:30,590 --> 00:59:32,760
right? 
Like the big the big situations 

981
00:59:32,770 --> 00:59:34,730
and. 
Even just like owning it and 

982
00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:37,190
being able to talk freely about 
these things, you know, having a

983
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:42,950
little podcast confessional here
about these things helps me to 

984
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,570
be able to like, be accountable 
in some way, right? 

985
00:59:45,580 --> 00:59:51,010
Where like, I don't want to be a
person marked by judgment and 

986
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,070
cynicism And, and you know, 
like, I want to think the best 

987
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,670
of people. 
That's what Jesus is calling us 

988
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,010
to. 
He's he's asking us to love them

989
01:00:00,020 --> 01:00:05,690
and to seek their good. 
And when I'm not doing that, I 

990
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:10,870
am not. 
I am not living out my role as a

991
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,750
son and heir in the Kingdom of 
God. 

992
01:00:12,820 --> 01:00:15,830
Hmm, which I think is a great 
place to end it is. 

993
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,870
There's so much more. 
We could have talked about a 

994
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,170
lot. 
We didn't get to talk about 

995
01:00:19,180 --> 01:00:24,060
enemy in Christian music lyrics.
We didn't know we did. 

996
01:00:24,070 --> 01:00:26,230
That's. 
OK, well, it'll come up again. 

997
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,870
It'll. 
Have to be its own special 

998
01:00:28,610 --> 01:00:31,390
episode. 
I think the thing that maybe is 

999
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,980
worth leaving people with is 
just by acknowledging again, 

1000
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:36,630
like, this is hard. 
It's not easy. 

1001
01:00:37,890 --> 01:00:40,130
Messed up after preaching so 
well. 

1002
01:00:40,140 --> 01:00:41,590
This like, yeah, and I've had 
those. 

1003
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,690
So I will never forget that the 
first time Connie said literally

1004
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:48,630
those same words, like she 
turned me like, I think I heard 

1005
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,570
a sermon about this. 
I heard her good sermon about 

1006
01:00:50,580 --> 01:00:51,950
this today. 
I was like, Oh my goodness. 

1007
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,580
How? 
Like how? 

1008
01:00:53,590 --> 01:00:56,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So it's hard. 

1009
01:00:56,540 --> 01:01:04,230
Yeah, it's not and easy simple 
thing to do, but the good 

1010
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,750
meaningful right things rarely 
are. 

1011
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,890
And like as cliche as that is, 
in some ways I think that's that

1012
01:01:12,900 --> 01:01:17,490
that is true about about this 
like you began with that this is

1013
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:19,610
easy to understand. 
It's hard to do. 

1014
01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:22,390
Yeah. 
So start today with a small 

1015
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:27,450
thing, just the next right 
thing, and then try for the next

1016
01:01:27,460 --> 01:01:31,570
right thing after that. 
And I don't know, try to debt 

1017
01:01:31,580 --> 01:01:37,030
snowball that thing like. 
But like, I think that's the 

1018
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:42,490
best approach is make the next 
right decision and get people 

1019
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:46,550
around you who can help keep you
accountable to it and point out 

1020
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,470
when we fail at it. 
Yeah. 

1021
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,630
But until next week, we hope 
that this encourages you toward 

1022
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,970
meaningful and sometimes 
difficult conversation. 

1023
01:01:57,180 --> 01:01:59,850
And we'd love to continue to 
hear your questions and comments

1024
01:01:59,860 --> 01:02:04,130
and feedback to our e-mail. 
We look forward to seeing many 

1025
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:08,430
of you Bible Study Sunday 
services and throughout your 

1026
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,700
week piece.