Hey friends, welcome to another episode of the KPC Podcast, and
we're happy to have you along for the ride.
We spent some time this last week leading up to Sunday in
Luke 6 and specifically versus 37 to it was like 42, I believe.
So not a ton of text, but still a lot like a lot going on.
This is Jesus teaching on, on not judging, not condemning, on
learning to be generous, on following the right teacher, on
loyalty, I think as we put it on Sunday, but who we follow and
who we learn from and who we apprentice ourselves to
mattering and mattering significantly and then
ultimately landing on what was the third one.
I can't. It was loyal.
General log in the. Generosity, loyalty and
integrity was the third one. So good Kingdom principles to
live by. And so we're gonna jump into
some questions conversation to wrap up that discussion.
And we're finishing off Luke 6 this week.
Yeah, yeah, which will be great. So yeah, we hope it encourages
you to have good, meaningful conversation.
And as always, we would love to hear some of your questions and
the feedback that you have. You can reach us on e-mail is
the best way to send your questions to to us.
We always check the e-mail before recording.
Yeah, always, always. And it's, it's a lot of fun when
we get one like, you know, it'll, it'll be, we'll get in
like I would get in usually just before 9:00 AM on Monday morning
and, and be like, OK, let's see what we got.
And, and sometimes they'll be one that came in like at, you
know, 830 like this is great. Yeah.
Perfect. It's been like a lot of great
discussion, you know, between the community Bible study and
then the sermon and then the podcast.
As we've been saying, it's been a great little trifecta.
But this past week in particular, a lot of a lot of
not heated, but like a lot of like there's an intensity to
discussion of of this passage, I feel like.
Yep, and I'll just I'll hop in there while you choke on coffee.
What what I I think too like week 3, right?
Week 3 of the. Getting more comfortable.
Exactly. Yeah, which is really fun to
see. So like I would put a little
plug in there for small groups because I do just wanna say like
shout out to the people who jumped into community Bible
study. And we know that many of you
wanted to but weren't able to. And some of you were trying to
for the first time and didn't know what you were in for.
But like you don't sign up for a group.
So you sign up, there's a hundred and change people.
Like there's four or five people coming out and we put you in
groups. So you show up.
You maybe know people at your table, maybe you don't.
But. That's kind of the point.
But that's exactly the point is, yeah, you get to have
conversation with people and interact with folks who maybe
you don't usually on a Sunday or throughout the week.
And it just contributes to the breadth of experience.
And like I, I find this beautiful, encouraging moment to
look out over all the groups and see the the breadth of life
experience and age, the intergenerational piece to
conversation. As always, I think really
encouraging and one of the pieces of feedback I've gotten
throughout this study of what people appreciate.
I think some of the younger, not maybe younger Christians in
terms of new to faith, but younger in age getting to have
conversations with folks have been around for 60 years in the
church, 70 years in the church and and that's really beautiful.
So the small group piece, the small group plug is that's
actually what we want for all of our community life to begin to
look like is not just during community Bible study, but
throughout the entirety of the year for you to find yourself in
a small group. And maybe that's a small group
of friends, but probably more likely it's a small group of
people who are also looking for meaningful conversation.
And there's a a beauty in just trying to get into that level of
discussion. So that's what I would, I think
that's what we would love to see is for this to continue on
through all of life. Yeah, we, we last year when we
did the community Bible study, we had a, an offshoot group
after that that, that my wife and I hosted at our place for
kind of between I guess it was mid-May through to the end of
end of June kind of thing, just for like a month and a half.
And it was very similar, very like, you know, everyone from,
you know, us in our late 30s views and people in 20s and
people in their 50s, sixties. It was, it was a blast.
Like it was, it was a lot of fun and so highly recommended.
There are not many contexts in our world.
We talked about this before. There are not many contexts in
our world where you get the chance to interact with, with
such a diversity of, of age, where it's that level of
mutuality and learning from one another.
Like when you go to school, you are in your age category and
you're learning from someone who's older than you.
There's not usually a lot of reciprocal learning, right?
Whereas this is, you know, there is a way to learn from one
another and honor one another. And it's it's a beautiful
picture of the Kingdom of God. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, judging
others this a lot of meat in this passage, a lot of things
for consideration, potentially some confusing things.
And so the first, the first question I want to jump into is
when, when we look at Jesus call to to not judge, you know, do
not judge, you will not be judged.
Do not condemn and you will not be condemned at the very end.
And, and this is where I admit I, I've gotten this passage
wrong. I have literally preached on
this passage early on. I remember it, it was one of my,
maybe even one of my first like public sermons.
I, I'm, I'm, I pray it's gone off the, the Internet.
But, but maybe, maybe it is somewhere, I don't know, but
where I took the last section. So he ends.
Then he says, first take the plank out of your own eye.
After that, all these analogies about planks and specs.
First take the plank out of your own eye.
Then you will see clearly to remove the spec from your
brother's eye. And what I inferred from that,
and I think incorrectly now, is that means once I have got taken
care of my stuff, once I've dealt with my stuff, judge away
that was. I can take care of your stuff.
Too, That was my take away. That was and, and, and man, that
is not what Jesus is saying here.
But what I think it what I think it sparks for me is a question
about judgment versus discernment.
We are called to be discerning. In fact, I think like it's, it's
considered a spiritual gift of sorts to have a, a discerning
mind, that there are people that are, are better at discerning
than others. And in our English language, we
would actually sometimes exchange those words like that
that person can judge rightly. They can look at a person, a
situation and discern or judge, right.
So that's maybe where it gets a little confusing is judging and
discernment can have some overlap, but not always.
Where would we draw the line there?
And and where would we see us living out our call to be a wise
and discerning people versus a judging or maybe the most
negative iteration of that word to judgmental?
Yeah, this is a great question. I love it.
We're jumping in. I wanna answer it two ways.
I think there's a quick, a quick answer that I want people to
remember and that is, uh, I think when we've, we've felt on
the receiving end of these, uh, judgment is away from life.
I think that the judgment, the judgment that Jesus is talking
about here when he says stop judging is a judgment that yeah,
that that leads away from life and away from flourishing and
toward exile and isolation and loneliness.
And I'll get into why in a minute.
But the so judging leads away from life, discerning I would
say leads toward life. And that's a good, I think
that's a good principle, just to sit with and think in my own
life as I go, am I helping people?
Am I, am I myself learning to see clearly in a way that leads
toward life for myself and for others?
Or am I living in a way that leads away from life and toward
exile and loneliness and isolation?
So I think that's a helpful starting question because it it
again, just a quick on the way rule for the road kind of
mindset to have is, is my action leading toward life.
And if you have to justify or rationalize it, well be like,
well, they're sinful. So it's gonna hurt now, but it's
going to lead them toward like. It's kind of like, you know, my
loving you looks like actually I'm going to, you know, I'm
going to make you feel like garbage.
Right, right. But it's didn't love.
So truth and love. You know, if you have to
rationalize it or like justify it in your own mind, Probably
not. I think those in my life who I
would call the most discerning usually speak up the last and
least like they're ones who are slow to speak and who speaks
slowly. So I think we rush to judgment,
and I think we slow down toward discernment.
So is it leading toward life? Is it slowed down?
Is it leading away from life, toward isolation?
Is it rash? Quick.
Easily just done, yeah. So I think those are helpful
starting points. If I back up though, there's a
really interesting thread through this passage that we
didn't touch on much during the Bible study and I didn't touch
on at all during the sermon. And that is so that the link
between where Jesus says do not judge, and then in the end where
he says you will be able to see clearly to take out the spec
from your brother's eye, There is a connection there.
And so if you look at the way Jesus says by best backup here,
so judge, and this was, I believe mentioned, um, actually
I believe it was Lindsey who pointed this out to everybody at
the Bible study. She's a smart.
One, yeah, absolutely. Is that to judge has this social
implication of cutting off. So it's not just judging as in
I've decided that what you are doing is wrong, right.
And we like doing that. We like, we like the armchair
judge, like I've decided you're wrong.
Usually what that means is I've decided I'm right.
Yeah. So, you know, that's also just
something to watch out for. But in Jesus day, this idea of
judging and creno, that verb to judge that Jesus says stop doing
actually is a judgment that includes this social isolation
or casting out. So to judge someone actually
implied that they were also cast out of Christian community.
Well, in Jesus day wasn't Christianity was the Jewish
community and to be a member of that community was like your
salvation was wrapped up in your membership too, the Jewish
community. And so to cast out from the
Jewish community is is like we're talking now to cast away
from like you're no longer part of the covenant people of God.
You no longer have access to your your rights and rituals of
spiritual formation, forgiveness, reconciliation with
God, with others, all of it. So this is like, this is
judgment toward literal isolation, like, like social,
emotional, relational isolation, but also toward religious
exclusion. So like, that's a really serious
move to make against somebody. And so she says like, stop
judging them, stop condemning them.
And really, I think those two words together are like, that's
the full force of of what this casting out looks like.
So you are you are judging them, you're casting them, you're
condemning them. And it's almost like you say
you're condemning them toward a way of death, socially,
relationally, emotionally, spiritually, in the sort of
holistic way we understand human beings.
And condemning sort of has that it has that implication a little
bit more than judging, right, at least in our in our modern
language. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So then to jump down to where Jesus says it's not the same
word, but where he says you'll be able to take the splinter
out, what he actually says is Ebalo cast out.
So the flip is to move. So he says stop judging people.
The person. Don't cast the person out, he
says. Cast the splinter out.
So in my reading of it, and I don't think like this is not
like my reading. I've got the reading of this.
That's not what I'm saying. There are lots of scholars who.
But right, right. So in in my reading of this
understanding of commentaries and like in our prep for the
Bible study, in all of it prep for the sermon, I see this as a
move from being ones who judge and cast out others, other
people, to being ones who cast out the things that hurt one
another. Right.
So so distinguishing between the the person and the actions that
are are potentially harmful to to them to others around.
Them Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'm so I'm not
saying what we like. I'm not.
This isn't just like another version of hate the sin, love
the Sinner. This isn't that.
Yeah, no. No, but you know, like I, I
think we, we take that splinter and log analogy and connect it
with judging and think that Jesus is saying, well, don't
judge unless you first judged yourself and dealt with your own
stuff and then you can judge others.
But what he's really saying is don't cast people out toward
death, right? He says, forgive, give.
So it says this restoration, bring back into community,
embrace, move them toward life. The splinter and the log like
it. It's not judgment that he's that
he's enabling or talking about. I think he's actually saying
it's it sucks having something stuck in your eye like it hurts.
Help each other. Help one another?
Yeah. Help one another deal with the
the things of pain and sorrow and sadness and sin.
Like like help heal one another. There are things that I can't
see clearly. Help me.
Help. Exactly.
It doesn't give you license to
judge. It gives you the ability to love
and care and heal one another. So like, it's a relief to get
that splinter pulled out. Like when you have something in
your eyes. I work, I work glasses, but I
wear contacts all the time when I run, play hockey, etc.
So like you, you're, you wear, do you wear contacts?
You don't wear contacts? No.
When you have something underneath a contact or that
contact gets like flipped sideways, like it's painful.
I remember the first time, like I lost a contact into like the
side of my eye. Yeah.
And I couldn't get it out. Like I couldn't do it.
I couldn't see to get the contact back on the right side
of my eye. I'm like, I had visions of it's
like it's on the back of my eye. It's gone forever, which is
physically impossible. I realized that much like I
stayed in, you know, school long enough to figure that much out,
but like, it hurts and it and it like sometimes you need somebody
else to fix what is broken in your at least help you.
And yet your wife like fishing. Or she couldn't do it.
She couldn't do it. She could never work contacts.
That's just. Yeah, by her own admission, she
would. The common occurrence in our in
our house is not that common, but relatively common is I'll
hear like a shriek from from the bathroom and I'll be like my
contacts on the floor. I can't find them because I my
contacts are out and so then I'll pull up my like flashlight
and you're like, oh, takes us like usually 5 minutes to
fucking. And then you don't want it back
anyways. So anyway, this is it though.
Like this is I just, I think because of the way Matthew has
that those same versus similar versus ordered, it is like 1
immediately after the other. We want to hold those things
together. And I do think that there is a
reading that is helpful. Like we do need to Jesus saying
don't judge. And he is saying deal with your
own stuff. And he is saying don't point
other people like other people stuff out while not dealing with
your own stuff. But in the end, he doesn't say
it's not a return to judging the person.
I do think there's this beautiful image where he says
expel the thing that harms one another.
Yeah. So his move is toward life
always. And that's why I turned in the
sermon. I turned to Henry now.
And who talks about becoming, like, learning to be a wounded
healer? Like your wounds, your stuff, it
doesn't disqualify you from helping one another from living
life inside the Kingdom, but you need to deal with it so that it
doesn't harm when you're trying to help.
Jesus says, like he said, you're trying to help the person.
He's not saying that you're trying to harm them, but even
best intentions, you can still harm somebody with a plank
sticking out the front of your face.
So it's a comedic way of saying. Learn to help one another.
Hmm. But it's like, put put the
oxygen mask on yourself first. Like you.
If you pass out, you can't help anybody.
Yeah, right. Yeah, it, it really is.
I think it's a movement away from exclusion toward embrace.
And then it's the continuation of that that Jesus works out
where he says you've dealt with your own stuff enough that you
can learn to help one another. I'm picturing like a a scenario
where say a person is struggling with don't choose anything too
intense but also not too. Like lying, lying, stealing.
Yeah, let's just say lying, right, That they are, that they
are someone who is often extending or bending the truth.
Sure. For me, I have multiple options.
I, I could judge them and just say what, what a, what a
wretched person they are for, for being a liar.
Like they lied to me and I'm pretty mad about it.
And, and I, I have a lot of I have, I just, I want them out of
my life. I want them whenever I want them
out of the church community, whatever, right?
That's a that's an option. That would be the the do not
judge part of part of the equation where I am judging the
other part that I need to take into account.
I'm just kind of trying to unpack this for, for like what
this looks like in in real time is then I need to then look
within. Is it where, where have I been
untruthful? Where, where?
Like if I, if I'm going, and I'm not saying I should judge this
person, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna judge them.
I better at least look inside. But then Jesus then takes it
further and says, no, no, no. This should take you through
multiple layers of, of like checks and balances so that
instead of judging them, you want to aid them in their
journey of, of toward wholeness, toward stopping lying because
they're lying is hurting the community or themselves or their
family or whatever. Right.
And so like it that that's, I just wanted to kind of unpack
that as like a way to sort of like, OK, don't judge.
That's how you do it in this situation.
Look internally then help. Yeah, I think so.
I like, I think you. Yeah, this.
And listen, like I think this is where we continue to struggle to
do things well and write and in ways that help because I, I do
think that the the best, like the most well-intentioned
Christians can still in wanting to help somebody communicate in
it in a way that is that excludes or that drives away
totally. But there also needs to be like,
it's what Jesus isn't saying is avoid honest conversation,
right? So I think that I think it does
matter. Um, and it's like it's taken out
of, it's taken out of context. But John McKay, who I've talked
about many times probably on the podcast already has a line in
mission work where he says that we as Christians need to earn
the right to be heard. Yes.
And you know, what he's saying is essentially, you need there,
there needs to be a level of trust and sincerity and
relationship that's been built in order for you to be able to
proclaim the gospel into somebody's life in a way that
actually transforms them. And I would say that the same
thing is true here, that you're like, one of the things I would
hope that you would take into account as you pray through and
wrestle through, like, let us say, confronting somebody on
something is what like, what is the relational capital that you
have? And, um, is this going to drain
it? Like are you overextending?
You know, is it like, well, I can buy that car with X amount
of cash and then also this amount of line of credit and
that loan plus this extra, you know, gift?
Over here at all. Probably shouldn't be doing it
right like it's so I just I think that that is one of the
things you need to take into account is honestly assessing
yeah, that that relationship Jesus does lay out the a
paradigm for conflict right where you are supposed to go
one-on-one to someone you have conflict with.
And if that doesn't work, he says gather some people around
you. Is it gather the elder?
Like gather, you know, a group of people go together and so
like there, there is, I think there is, there has to be room
for that inside the Kingdom. But I do think that the burden
falls on you, me, you, whoever's listening, watching to do most
of the hard heart work internally.
Hmm. Yeah, before we adjust like
this, yeah, I guess the last thing I would say, I'm probably
repeating myself now is I think again, these are meant to be
rules for the road. They're meant to be quick, like
aphorisms was the word that we used a Bible study on Wednesday.
They are true statements about life inside the Kingdom.
They have meaning across all of life and time and space and that
doesn't deplete, that doesn't diminish their meaning and that
the impact and influence. But it also is like we're
probably not meant to pick apart every possible iteration or
scenario where we could or couldn't apply these things.
And I would say like, do you have a bent toward are you more
likely? Do you more often point out
other peoples stuff or do you spend more time looking at your
own heart and your own life? That's probably like the extent
to which was like, like, just leave it there.
Yeah. Spend more time working on your
own stuff and less time working on other people's stuff.
Spend enough time working on your own stuff that you
genuinely care about the other person experiencing life in a
fuller measure. Because it's not just about
like, you know, I'm going to mind my own business.
I'm just gonna do my own thing. You know, it's, it's not about
that. I mean, there are times then
yes, we should just mind our own business.
But but but yeah, it seems as though it is more about I, I
need to make sure if I am going to have a hopefully, loving,
hopefully, hopefully what they can feel cared for if I'm going
to have that conversation with someone about an area of their
life that I'm concerned about. Yeah, I am I spending more time
looking in where the OR am I looking constantly for, for to
point out people's faults, right.
That the if I have a bench toward that, what's that about?
What I might need to explore that further, and I think even
more broadly, I, I've heard it said and there's been some, you
know, data to back this up that often our our world more broadly
sees Christians as some of the most judgmental people on.
Earth and hypocritical. And critical both.
Yeah. Absolutely.
And and so this is this is an area without being like overly
like melodramatic like this, this really matters for our
witness, for just our credibility in the world.
Hmm, yeah. Like maybe that's worth diving
into for a moment of just like how how we do this passage can
have a massive impact on on whether or not someone is
potentially even open to the message of Jesus.
Absolutely. Which is, yeah, so absolutely
worth hammering home like for those of us who call ourselves
followers of Jesus. Barna did a, I think it was
Barna. Hey, Barna and Pew Research
jointly. But anyways, Barna did a long
study of, I think it was largely millennials and back in the day
when millennials were the up and coming generation.
When we were like in the 20s. When we were the cool.
Ones I think it was like 2007 or something.
Yeah, somewhere around. There and one of the questions
was do you so the questions posed to people who would not
identify as Christians for a variety of reasons, but do you
view Christians was the question, do you view Christians
as ones who align more with Jesus or with the Pharisees?
And the vast majority, and I don't remember the exact
percentages, but I think it was like 80% or something high 70s,
maybe low 80s said that they perceived Christians actions to
align more with those of the Pharisees than those of Jesus.
And so that's not like that's not a pastor saying that.
That's not Christians of our own, you know, in our own
judgment and like denominationalism and like,
that's not, we're not, we're not doing, we're not saying that of
ourselves. That's how we're perceived,
Yeah, by the vast majority of a generation of people who either
never grew up in the church or who walked away from the church.
So like, I think we need to hear that and go back to these
passages again, because I think if we're rationalizing getting
to judgment, I go, we missed the whole plot, right?
If we are explaining away the general principles of like, no,
Jesus saying live generously, we're like, well, but yeah, but
when can I judge? Like can't.
Surely at some point I'll be good enough to judge others, he
says. No judgment is mine, says the
Lord. Unless you're gonna go to law
school and then work your way up to being a literal judge, don't
judge. Sure, fair, different kind of
judging. But right, like this is, this
is, I think this is a battle for all of for, for for many, many
Christians, if not every single Christian.
Yeah, we are. We Christians are our own worst
PR nightmare. Like, yeah, so it is.
I do think it matters the way we do those matters tremendously,
the way we learn to be generous, overly abundant, right gracious
with people. And Jesus says that like it
needs to include honesty and living an integrated life.
Put back together, mended um. Yeah, it's, I think it's worth
noting because I, I've, I'm, I'm thinking of some scenarios where
where some folks have said, man, Christians are so judgmental
about this person or situation or whatever.
And, and I would say, yeah, you're, you're, you're not
wrong. However, I think this is where
we need to distinguish between what is, you know, what is
taking the, the, the splinter out versus what is having
boundaries. So once if a person is has done
some awful things, say they're a Christian in the name of Jesus,
whatever, they've done some awful things, It's probably just
worth reiterating that it's not judgmental to say I am not going
to put it put you in a position of authority in this way anymore
or I am, you know, if if someone is is a thief, I'm not going to
put them in charge of the finances, even if I have
forgiven them. You know, like, like again,
there, there is wisdom, there is discernment and then there is
judgment. And, and, and those are
different things. And, and we can discern and, and
in community, hopefully not just by ourselves and isolation, but
we can discern and say that's probably not a wise choice,
right? So I just think it's worth
highlighting that, that I, I've heard some folks critique, like
fellow Christians critique other fellow Christians about their
judgmental attitudes when really it's like, no, that's, that's
probably a, a wise choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. So the piece that you said
though that I want to double down on is the in community,
right? Because I think that's the the
mechanism or the environment, the ecosystem in which
discernment happens. So again, like, if we're looking
for quick sort of simple principles, judgment happens in
isolation much more and at least begins like, I think it begins
in, like, in yourself. Yeah.
And then, you know, at our worst, we're like, hey, let's
judge this guy together. You're right.
This check. Which we never say outright.
But no. But like, that's right.
So the judgment happens in isolation.
Discernment happens, I would say, by and large in community.
Yeah. So if everybody around you is
saying this person should not be in a position of leadership and
you're saying, but I believe they could be or should be.
I'm just saying like be pretty crystal.
You gotta be. You gotta be very certain if you
are the one inside of a community saying this, or if
there's a situation that has risen like has arisen where, you
know, you are saying like in a family setting, I'll say if the
family together have discerned that there needs to be some
level of boundary with a particular individual, it's,
it's probably something worth listening to.
Yeah, if you're the only person saying yeah, but maybe not like
I don't, I don't agree. And that's not, I'm not saying
that the the crowds are always right, no, and the individuals
always wrong. That's not what I'm saying, but
I am saying that God gives discernment in in community,
just like he calls in community, right and encourages and equips
and these things toward life in in community as well.
You know, you know, I know we are most encouraged inside of
community. So, you know, I think why would
the why would the same not be true also for some of these more
harder but negative implication conversations also be truest in
community? And there's like I, I've talked
with some folks who have a wonderful level of
self-awareness where they will, where they will say, I'm not as
discerning on these matters as say my spouse or someone else,
right? And so, so they're like, you
know, I know that about myself. And so therefore I'm going to
defer to them sometimes, right? And I think that could be true
for, for community more broadly as well, saying like, Hey, I am,
I'm not, I don't have my, my Spidey senses don't go off in
the same way that yours do, right.
And so like, let me, let me hear what you're trying to say so
that I can understand. And and even if I may not agree,
I'm going to, I'm going to defer and submit to you out of, you
know, just your wisdom and leadership.
Yeah. Last thing I want to say on kind
of this trajectory, and I'm going to spoil next week's
sermon. Already love it.
But so far in six during the sermon on the plane, we've seen
Jesus talk about far more topics related to the heart than
action. So I think that's important just
to highlight that the blessings and woes are meant to be this
introspective looking in myself and ourselves as a community.
The love for enemies has more to say to me than it does my enemy,
right? We talked about how we we often
want to say more to our enemy than we want that situation to
speak to us. But it loving our enemies is
this internal battle that we have to move through and sort of
reckon with and now judging others and condemning, learning
to be generous again. This is this is introspective
work. This is heart work.
This is work that I need to do on myself far more than it is
about the other person. Like though, it's Jesus says
stop judging and you will not be judged, which we haven't even
touched on yet, but stop judging.
He he really doesn't care about who you're judging.
He's like, it's not stop judging unless they're deserve it,
right? Unless they deserve it, it's
just saying stop doing it. And he says stop condemning.
So it's introspective. All of the Sermon on the Mount
up to this point has essentially been saying do the hard work of
self examination of humility, the heart work that is like
turned in on yourself, not not to exclude others, but because
who you are matters in terms of how you are going to live in the
Kingdom. And so he's saying do all this
work. Now we're going to he flips in
43 and he says very clearly, no good tree bears bad fruit.
He says there is a purpose to doing all this work.
It's not just for yourself, it's for the other.
It's it's so that this community can explode.
Hmm. And and so that people will
encounter fully formed individuals who are living life
inside the Kingdom. And he says, but if you so if
you do that work, you're not going to bear bad fruit.
If you don't do that work, you're probably going to bear
bad fruit. Trees are going to be recognized
by their fruit. We again, we go, I'm going to
recognize your fruit and I'm going to recognize your fruit.
And I'm going to like good fruit over here, bad fruit over there.
But no, what he's saying is you're like, your fruit will be
recognized, right? Your heart will be recognized,
who you are will be recognized by the fruit that flows out of
who you are. And then he says 4 out of the
mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
And it's almost like we finally get to this.
So what already? Right.
If you're, if your heart is full of judgment, Yep, that will pour
out in your in your mouth, in your words and your actions.
Yeah. And So what Jesus is doing, he's
creating the new Israel, right? Like this is biblical Israel,
people of God called and equipped to bless others always
for a purpose. Jesus, we started Jesus calls 12
disciples, names them apostles, 12 tribes of Israel.
We go new Israel, new people of God called for a purpose to be a
witness in the world. And now Jesus is saying do that
hard work so that out of your mouth comes good things of the
Kingdom. And so we finally get to this
point. Where is it really?
He's been building this teaching and it's like, here's the So
what? Yeah, So that's why I, I'm
always insistent on like up to this point, we've been, it's
it's it has had more to say about who we are and who we are
becoming than the other. Because now Jesus wants to flip
and say actually go and do this. Good.
Hmm. Work in the world, speak good
things, bear good fruit. It's work that it's work that
leads to life. I mean, that you talk about a
little bit already like that. It's and you know, a tree
bearing good fruit is a tree that is bearing life, right.
And, and that seems to be almost the the choices we are making
here is will you choose judgment and death and and exclusion and
exile, or will you choose life? Hmm.
So one other question kind of connected to Jesus's statements
about judging and he says do not judge and you will not be
judged. Same thing for condemnation.
The question that I have is, what is that?
What does even mean? Like who is the one judging me?
Is it other people? Is it?
Is it God? Is it both?
Is it and is the implication if if I don't, if I don't judge,
that I will not be judged because it feels like I could be
the least judgmental person I know and and possibly still
could be judged. So like what's going on here?
Is there? We talked a little bit about
last week Christian karma. We talked, you talked about it a
little bit in your sermon on Sunday.
Be curious as as we've kind of unpacked this where you know
where your head is at. Uh huh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I keep going back to
silly illustrations of TV shows and, yeah, characters who can't
give gifts without or receive gifts without also giving gifts
of comparable value, right? And just, we struggle with this.
I think we also struggle with this.
Yeah. If I if I receive something, do
I have to give something back? How how many times do you have
to say thank you in what form? Like you have to write This is
always one. Do you?
So when you after you get married, do you have to write a
thank you card to every single person for the gift that they
gave? Yes.
Like still technically, yes, absolutely.
It's a good to say thank you. It absolutely.
Is always get to be great. But it's a pain in the.
Butt it's hard to do. Yeah, yeah, I just think like
there's we, we wrestle with this idea, right?
And I think and stop me if if I said this last week already, but
I think it might be worth saying again.
The I almost think we want it to be as simple as that because not
because we are good at giving, but because we suck.
We have a really hard time receiving grace.
So I think we want it to be if this, then that if I don't
judge, I won't be judged, right? If I don't condemn, then I won't
be condemned. I don't want to be condemned and
I don't want to be judged. Therefore, I will not judge and
I will not condemn, because I receive what I give and I don't
want to receive it, so I won't give.
It great done perfect. Yeah, now you and I know that
that's impossible. Yeah, because I am gonna judge
and I'm going to condemn and I am going to like, human beings
are prone toward those things. Yeah.
So does that mean I will be judged?
Like, I think Jesus, in part, is working out what is true about
humanity. Like, he's not working it out as
in, like, figuring it out what it means.
He's fleshing it out for people. This is true, Yeah.
There is some level of reciprocity in generosity or
like stinginess. And we talk about culture.
So let's talk about culture of churches for a second, because,
you know, why would that be relevant?
OK, I've gone into some church, like there are churches, their
churches with millions of dollars in the bank, but who
live fearful to spend any of it because they might lose all of
it. And then what will they be?
What will they have? What will they do?
And that culture explodes inside of a church when every decision
is funneled through the Is this going to, is this going to tap
into our capital? Do we have the money to do it?
How are we going to replace it? What income is this gonna bring
in to, to replace the income that that at the expense that
goes out, right? Like everything, you know, it's
just this mindset of scarcity where there's never enough,
where fear drives and wins the day drives decisions, and it's
contagious. You know, in in the worst sense
of the word. Absolutely.
The flip, though, is where somebody chooses to be generous.
Generosity is also contagious. And when?
So when I scale it out and I say, what's Jesus trying to do?
Well, he's trying to form a community.
He he's not trying to. He is forming a community.
He is telling us how life will be inside the Kingdom.
Yeah. And I almost think there is a
little bit of a way to read this where he says stop judging and
guess what, you'll live inside of a community where people
aren't judged. If you're all doing it.
Including you yeah, like it's about it's about culture
creation. It's about like the values of
the Kingdom. And as much as I hate it, it
kind of is what goes around comes around, but not on the
individual. This for that.
If this then that mathematical Ledger equation type rigid
expense, right? If you're, if you're talking
through that idea of, of Jesus speaking, speaking in aphorisms,
yeah. And, and you know, these little
pithy statements that are, that are, are true, like what he's
saying is the less you all as a people judge, the less you will
all receive judgment because no one's doing the judging.
So here's the thing. Here's the thing that we do too
often is we individualize these statements.
Yeah. And I if, if I don't have like,
I don't, I, I try not to say like, well, if I have one regret
from the sermon that I preached on Sunday, because that's not my
theology of the sermon. Like it's preached.
God does something. Yeah.
And God's gonna do what he's gonna do with it.
And I go all cool. I just get to sit back and
watch. However, in a different
iteration, if I were to preach this sermon again for our
community next week, let's say same passage.
Different. Take which I really want to try
someday. Yeah, we're like we're gonna do.
This is something that I learned from so in at Princeton, some of
my fellow seminarians, which is weird.
That's a terrible word. Anyways, some fellow students
who are from the black church like Southern church in the
States, and forgive me if it's not only this community who does
this, but my experience of it was this is something very
specific to the black church in the state that they will have
these days where 7 preachers will get up and preach on the
same passage. That's so.
Cool, I I sat there. I absolutely love it.
I'm sure entirely different sermons.
Wildly different and it like the most encouraging thing you would
think would be like does it drive to like petition and like
whose sermon is like just the most beautiful grace filled
encouraging services where you get multiple people hopping up
and I've probably missed anyways.
I've probably missed a whole lot of what it actually is.
But you know, I I would love to like we're going to stay on the
same path for a couple of weeks. If I were to do this again, the
piece that I would draw us back to is Jesus isn't saying to the
individual, yeah, you individual do not judge and you individual,
you will not be judged. He's saying.
He's saying and not judge. That's literally what he says.
May crenate. Stop judging.
Yeah, Do not. Don't do it to the community, OK
Community, don't judge and you should not be judged.
Is actually literally what he says?
Hmm. So you as a community, don't be
a community of judgment, right? So in in all of its shapes and
forms, don't judge one another. But if you're not judging one
another, you're probably not being judged as a community.
Don't be a community that judges other communities.
Teach people how to not judge so that you should not be judged.
Like there there is a way in which I think he's building out
a culture of the Kingdom that teaches don't judge, you should
not be judged because this whole culture is about non judgment.
It's one of our fatal flaws as modern Christians that we do to
frequently read these passages through the individualistic
lens. And there are certainly times to
do that. And there is always the moment,
as we've said, to look inwardly and introspectively within
yourself. But we cannot lose the the
broader community congregational impact that these teachings are
meant to have for us. It's it's critical.
So like, I do think there's a little bit of just
acknowledgement that we have to give it that we're where we're
saying, yeah, like Jesus saying don't judge and you probably
won't be because you'll become a community that doesn't.
Yeah. So it's true.
It's just true. What it's not doing is that
individual Ledger of yeah, yeah, one to one or person to God.
Like, it's just, there's a lot of different ways that we can
fail in reading this. You know, if I judge somebody,
am I gonna lose my salvation? Right.
Like was I think actually a question that somebody brought
up at the community Bible study was like, to what degree are we
talking? Here, well, even more for say,
condemnation, like, you know, like you, if I'm receiving
condemnation, what if I'm receiving that from God?
That feels pretty severe, right? You know.
Yeah, yeah. Now interestingly the the
condemn is just an extra measure of judgment.
Yeah, right. Like that's the so it's, it's,
it's to judge down. I think technically is it or
judge over I'm going to look it up really quick, but anyways
really is talking about yeah to it's to judge down according to
down it it intensifies yet to act as judge.
It feels like a more more external outworking of that
judgment. Yes.
And let's talk about that, right, because that was, I think
that's a really good point. Someone brought up on Wednesday
that the judge is often an inward act, Yeah, that we're
doing in our heart. And then condemning is, is sort
of the outward working of it. And then same, the inverse.
Forgiving often has to start in our hearts because as we said,
we can, you know, forgive people after they've passed away.
We can forgive people that we never have to face, right?
Giving is the outward working of of the of what happens when we
have forgiven. Absolutely.
So, yeah, he's saying stop judging, stop condemning, Yeah.
Forgive and give extra measure of grace.
Yeah. Which is where we land with
generosity, right. Which is how we ultimately we
landed there. Yeah.
So yeah. I don't, you know, I don't think
it's, I don't think it's Christian karma because what
Jesus is moving us toward is giving the extra measure of
grace. And we talked about this last
week, but grace is this unmerited favor.
And so Jesus is he is saying to stop, to do, but it's never a
equal measure all the way through, right?
And he says it extra measure will be given so.
That feels like a good place to stop, I think.
And just what a what a awesome passage to unpack and has so
many great implications for us as a church community and
excited to see how we can live this out.
And I and I hope that this, you know, as we go through this
process that we're not just gaining head knowledge, we're
not just learning about the Greek words and whatnot, but we
are actually saying how can this make a difference?
And this is very plain to me. How can we become a community
that are that are known for their forgiveness and generosity
and and less so for their judgment and condemnation.
So however that looks for you, whether you are discussing that
amongst your family, small group, whatever that looks, we
hope that you're able to take these discussions into your
world, into your life and explore how you can really make
them make them real in your in our church community and in your
lives. Have a great week.