Hey friends, welcome to another episode of KPC Podcast.
We're grateful to have you listening or watching into into
your week. We're going to jump into a
conversation on Luke Chapter 8, which we began this past Sunday.
Great Sunday, baptism Sunday. This is also fun.
Justin's back. In the.
Podcast chair, welcome back, Justin.
Thank you. Tons of fun.
So Luke 8, if you do want to kind of grab a Bible and follow
along, if you can do that, great.
If you're driving, don't do that.
But we've got some questions and some conversation.
Big large passage that I didn't take a what I would maybe call
like a full swing at just because we had baptism
membership. There was, it was a full,
wonderful, incredible service. And we were only 10 minutes
over. How's he?
Doing so this is great. So not that that means you
shouldn't have ended when you did, but you know, there's,
there's so much more. Like there's one of those
passages where there's so many different, different directions
you could go in and, and some different angles to approach it
from. And so hopefully we can get to
some of those extra things here. Yeah, so I'd like to read the
passage now you've got what? What?
What version do you have? There I have two.
This is ESV and I've got NLT. OK.
And one day we'll have a podcast conversation about translations,
because those are very different.
Very different, yeah. And yeah, they do different
things. I think the quick, the quick
answer, the quick answer for today maybe, and maybe I've
given this answer already or we've talked about this, like
the quick answer for me. Um, we like you and I and, and
our like our preachers who preach on team here, Like we do
so much work in the Greek texts that like very often will
reference back to original language of texts, be it Greek
or Hebrew for New and Old Testament.
There's also Aramaic in there. There's a lot going on in terms
of translation. Each translation takes a
different kind of crack at it that any different angle of
approach some. At any rate, that's a whole
other conversation. But what I found is for certain
words and certain passages, it's helpful for me just to start at
the right place or at a more accurate.
Place rather than having to go in and say, well, this would be
a better word here. This would be better because I
mean, yeah, words in the English language which we are
translating it into, the meaning can be shifted and changed,
right? The the Greek doesn't change,
but how we understand the interpretation of it can change.
Yeah, exactly. And and like for me, the main
thing that I didn't want to create sort of accidentally or
subconsciously in our congregation is like a distrust
of a particular like translation.
So if I'm constantly preaching for.
So I preach primarily from the NIV, But if I'm constantly
saying actually, this translation doesn't get it quite
right, what I'm subtly doing, or at least what I could be
perceived as subtly doing, is undermining that translation.
Yeah. And saying that I am the sole
judge of whether that translation is right or wrong.
And I don't like, I don't ever want to suggest that.
Like, that's literally why we got away from only Latin
translations, right? Is for exactly that purpose and
that reason so. These translators are so smart
and they and they have vision for what they're doing.
And some of them are just different visions.
And, and so we need to honor and respect the work that they've
done, but also some have strengths and some have some
have strengths in greater areas than others.
Yeah. So I just found like if I can
get there faster, so from the Greek to a specific meaning of a
word given, like the overall context of the sermon, if I can
get there faster using a specific translation.
Now I'm choosing to use that translation just so that not
constantly having to do some of that like, well, this word
doesn't really fully articulate what the Greek holds.
Here are some other translations.
Here's one that would work better in this case.
We'll still do some of that, you know, as we go through, but.
So what do you have there? Yeah, this ones ESV.
Alright, do you want me to read from that one?
Well. Or.
Double checking, Let's go NLT. NLT, I got them all pulled up on
on the Bible app. So it's like they're all ready
to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK. So Luke 8, one through 15, so
soon after. Soon afterward, Jesus began a
tour of the nearby towns and villages, preaching and
announcing the good news about the Kingdom of God.
He took his 12 disciples with him, along with some women who
had been cured of evil spirits and diseases.
Among them were Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven
demons, Joanna, the wife of Chuza Herods, business manager
Susanna, and many others who were contributing from their own
resources to support Jesus and his disciples.
One day Jesus told a story in the form of a parable to a large
crowd that had gathered from many towns to hear him.
A farmer went out to plant a seed.
As he scattered it across his field, some seed fell on the
footpath where it was stepped on, and the bird and the birds
ate it. Other seed fell among rocks.
It began to grow, but the plant soon wilted and died from lack
for lack of moisture. Other seed fell among thorns and
grew up with it and choked out the tender plants.
Still other seeds fell on fertile soil.
This seed grew and produced a crop that was 100 times as much
as he had planted. When he had said this, he called
out Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.
His disciples asked him about what the parable meant.
He replied, You are permitted to understand the secrets of the
Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the
others so that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
When they look, they don't really see.
When they hear, they won't understand.
Let me look at you to read the rest.
So it continues. This is the meaning of the
parable. The seed is God's word.
The seeds that fell on the footpath represent those who
hear the message, only to have the devil come and take it away
from their hearts and prevent them from believing and being
saved. The seeds on rocky soil
represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy,
but since they don't have deep roots, they believe for a while,
then they fall away when they face temptation.
The seeds that fell among the thorns represent those who hear
the message, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by
the cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and so
they never grow into maturity. And the seeds that fell on the
good soil represent honest, good hearted people who hear God's
Word, cling to it, and patiently produce a huge harvest.
So it's a, it's a complex, it's a complex parable.
And we've kind of described it a little bit as a meta parable in
some ways, right, That it describes all the parables that
will come in some ways. This is this is shining a light
on those and it and it gives us a little insight into to Jesus
approach to to ministry and to, you know, inviting people into
the Kingdom of God. And that, like Jesus often, you
know, is among the crowds and talking with them and and
sharing, you know, sharing the good news of the Kingdom of God
being at hand and all that. But it, it feels like he's doing
something different here with this passage, Like he's, he's
sort of, you know, teasing them. Not like not making fun of them,
but like teasing with this parable.
Hmm. And then he's sort of doing this
like, who's gonna, who's gonna ask more, you know?
Yeah. So maybe just share a little bit
more about what what you see Jesus doing.
Here. Yeah.
I like that. I, you know, I think as soon as
we say, like he's testing people, yeah, like it goes
people's minds. I know we go to just sad places
about our own heart, mind, soul, salvation.
Like all of it, right. We start to wonder just the
deepest, darkest fears, like, am I good enough?
Am I the one who leans in? Am I, you know, the one to whom
the secrets are given? Or am I not like, where do I
fall? And those are good questions to
be asking of ourselves. I think as long as like you're
doing it in community, especially with folks who are
going to go, hey, just like don't let this, don't let this
rattle you to the core. Ask those questions.
Those are great questions to wonder about as long as they
don't start just shaking you to your core of who you are and
faith and etc. So I think I had a line in my
sermon where I said, like Jesus's speech is enigmatic
speech, but it is not intentionally deceptive speech.
Yes. And I think that's an important
piece to just highlight because Jesus is language that he uses
about the Kingdom of God, about the King of heaven is difficult
to understand. Like that's the idea.
So it is. It is is in some sense
confusing. It is challenging.
It is difficult to understand. It is hard to fully comprehend.
Like that would all be ways of expanding on that line, but it's
not intentionally deceptive in the sense that Jesus is saying,
I want some of you to understand and I want some of you to never
understand. Like, I think that's also an
equally problematic reading of it because it does.
It goes to that like beaten down fear, like on your deathbed.
Have I done enough? Did I believe the right things?
Did I finally make it like, you know, am I saved?
Am I not saved? Yeah.
And like we've talked around like predestination and this is
no, I don't think the the podcast for a deep dive into,
you know, predestination and be like.
Election. Might be a little yeah, but but
the you know, like I I've seen I've seen folks like good
faithful love Jesus, love others serve well, like their entire
life lived, you know, in many ways in that right, you know,
direction, like in line with the Kingdom of God.
And then who's still like on their death bed go like, I
wonder if I'm in. I wonder if I made it so like
it's actually comical to me that Calvin in the institutes wrote,
forgive me if I'm repeating myself here like 20 something
episodes in maybe. But you know, Calvin and the
institute's intended predestination to actually be a
pastoral move. It was to assure people of their
salvation. It was a pop in his mind.
He's writing this like I'm going to assure people of their
salvation and make sure that they live with the full
knowledge of God's grace and its its efficacy in their life and
that they're in. And what is the human heart and
mind do? Like This is why I say like the
devil is a liar. Like takes and twists and goes.
You know what I'm gonna do with this?
I'm going to make sure that people only ever read it in its
inverse. Like, yeah, what if I'm not?
Maybe I'm one of the not like. Just so easy to do in this
passage. Absolutely, Absolutely it is.
And so I think that's why it's important to, I go back to that
line. Jesus's speech is challenging,
it is confusing. It is meant to make us pause and
go, What is he really saying? What does it mean?
What is Jesus wanting me to hear and understand?
And how is this talking about life, the way life really is?
And how is it talking about the Kingdom of God and how the
Kingdom of God really is? And how am I meant to find
myself in it and challenged by it?
If Jesus says like A + B = C, then we just go, OK, A + B = C
Um, you know, I may, maybe in some ways that's easier ish.
I I just, I don't know. I, I know for myself and and,
you know, maybe talking around the question here, but like,
listen, like you can tell me something five times and I might
understand it, but get me to do it once and I'll not forget it.
Yeah. And like, that's a very simple
explanation of what Jesus does, I think, with parables.
Is that it? Ch Dodd writes that parables
tease the mind into active participation.
And I think that's the key piece here is you get to participate
in the parable. That's Jesus intention.
He wants you leaning in in an active like Oh my goodness what
is he talking about kind of way and so difficult to understand
on purpose. Yeah.
He's not deceptive. He's not being opaque for the,
for the sake of like trying to sort of, you know, um, you know,
invoke some sort of like Gnosticism, like there's these.
I have all the secrets. Yeah.
And you know, I'll sell them to you.
You know, it's, it's he's being provocative, you know, like,
hey, if, if this, if this provoked curiosity, ask more,
find out more like it. It's, it's pretty masterful in
terms of just his, his encouraging of engagement.
And and it does, it does have the effect of filtering out some
who are like, yeah, I don't, I'm not going to be bothered.
I'm not, I don't, I don't want to know more.
You know, there is, there is that effect as well, which is
interesting. Yeah.
It's also so you know, I think I like I mentioned it's it's
Isaiah 69 that Jesus is quoting here.
So it's it's you know, he he does say that I think in the NLT
read this at the prophecy would be fulfilled right.
So in Isaiah 69, this is like Isaiah in six begins.
It's one of the most iconic Isaiah lines.
I think Isaiah 6-1 in the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the
Lord sitting upon the throne high and lifted up the train of
his robe filled the temple. And it's this like so Isaiah is
like wisp the way to heaven in this beautiful dream of like
into God's presence. And it's so it's it's where we
get the line Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts.
The whole earth is full of his glory.
Like there's some just iconic lines out of this that we as
Christians. If you've grown up in the church
here and say just in church life without really kind of maybe
necessarily reading it here, but in in nine, alright, maybe let
me back up. And so in eight, this is Isaiah
commissioning from the Lord and innate.
It says, and I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I
send and who will go for us? Then I said, here I am send me.
And he said go. So the Lord says, go and say to
this people keep on hearing but do not understand, keep on
seeing but do not perceive, make the heart of those people dull
their ears, heavy their eyes like blind their eyes.
It's this critique of the people of God like it's the critique of
Israel for not seeing and hearing and actively
participating in life with God. And so it, it, it is like it's a
devastating critique on a people.
But what do we know about like the, the cycle that God calls at
this point? It's, it's biblical Israel.
And I use that language because we're not talking about
political Israel. We're talking about biblical
Israel. It's this cycle of them
forgetting who they are and who God is and then seeing all this
influences from external nations and going we want some of that
and being led away from in multiple directions, their
original identity and calling to be God's people and bless the
nations. Instead, they're being
influenced by the nations and it's God's call back is never
you're damned to eternity now. I'm done with you.
It's always this invitation back around, but it requires this
brutal critique be ever hearing but don't understand.
Yeah, keep on seeing, but don't perceive.
God calls in here. God calls Isaiah to declare how
it is, not how it will be. Yeah, he's saying, listen, if
you keep doing this, you're never going to understand.
So don't be like this. That's the implication here,
right? And sorry, like I kind of
preachy. But no, like I love it.
Come back to Luke and go, man, OK, Luke 8 Jesus is in some ways
like he's saying the same thing. OK fine, keep on hearing but
don't understand. Keep on seeing but don't really
perceive what's happening. Like you can live that way fine,
but it's outside of the Kingdom of God and it's outside of God's
design for you. So don't be like that.
Like that's the invitation. It's lean in, right?
Yeah, I love it. And I'm just noticing just think
about this now is that like this is the second, if not more times
that Jesus has been, you know, utilizing Isaiah in particular.
And and it it's I'm not sure you know what the what the story is
there particularly for, for why Jesus utilizes the prophet
Isaiah quite a bit. But it it does kind of feel like
the the climate that you're just that you were just describing
that Isaiah is walking into he's like, here I am.
Send me. I'm going to go, you know, I'm
gonna go, you know, send. I'm gonna be this messenger for
God. Yeah, it certainly feels like
Jesus is is reenacting this in a more even in a more full way and
and calling God's people to something even greater than what
perhaps even Isaiah was calling the people to.
Yeah, yeah. And and we do like Isaiah is
what Jesus reads from in the temple.
He unrolls the scroll and like that's what is there and that's,
you know, maybe maybe where, maybe just where they were in
their reading. That would be.
Interesting. But, you know, we don't know
that we don't know. And you know, what we are told
in that passage is that he unrolls the scroll to that
place. Yeah.
But the reality is we're talking about scrolls.
Like maybe they maybe they were just in Isaiah reading their way
through. Like that's just anyways.
It's a lot of work to to sift through those scrolls.
Yeah. Well, yeah, because yeah, it's
not. It's not all bound in.
In an easy way. You gotta go all the way through
this big scroll and find your spot.
But no, I do think that in many ways what what you said rings
true for me that the spiritual climate that Isaiah is called to
speak to is, you know, I think what we see Jesus is very
similar spiritual climate. And you know, in some ways I
think actually it's a very similar spiritual climate to
where we sit in 2025. And maybe that's just, you know,
we're perpetually there as human beings in that spiritual
climate. But I do think that there's this
striking a similarity between our, you know, unwillingness,
inability to to see and really perceive what God is doing to
hear and really hear and listen. And there's like just that human
proclivity to be like, yeah, OK, even if I believe it, I just, I
don't really want to hear it. I don't really want to
understand it because that means I gotta change the way I live.
And at the end of the day, I think that's the call.
That's what Jesus call is actually challenging us toward
is if, you know, the call of the disciple will challenge you to
live your life differently. Hmm.
And not only that, but there will be all this pressure from
the outside to convince you it's not a good idea.
Yeah. And because that's where it goes
with the parable is right, Here's this call.
If you've got ears here, like really here, anybody can choose
to listen to this, but you have to choose to have ears to hear.
I think it's worth noting in that is that so it says in verse
9 that his disciples asked him what this parallel meant.
And the one thing I think it's good good to remind people of is
that like that doesn't inherently just mean the 12th.
I think that you could say anyone like there throughout the
scripture is like throughout the gospels.
Many are listed as disciples, right?
Yes, he had his 12, but it could have been a lot, much larger
group of people who who chose to lean in.
Right. I think I, yeah.
And I, I'm gonna be wrong on this as soon as I say it, but I
think like there are there are commentators, there are writers,
historians who would suggest like in the hundreds.
Yeah, yeah. The the difference between
you've got you've got the apostle, you've got the 12 who
look, calls apostles. Yeah.
On top of just being disciples, then you've got there like very
specific call to discipleship stories throughout the Gospels.
But what do we see at the beginning of this passage?
Right, so there's several women mentioned.
Women who are mentioned by name, which again, like I think is
there are a few things that when we read Scripture should make us
pause and stop and go, OK, this is significant.
And the one which we talk about it often is any word that's
repeated twice. So Jesus has these lines where
he says Amen, Amen. They're truly, truly.
I say to you and you go, OK, so exclamation mark at the very
beginning of the sentence. Pay attention.
This is what he's saying, right? I'm about to say something
important. Also, names, like when
individuals are named, it matters and.
But on the other hand, just because groups of people are not
named, it doesn't mean that they're absent.
Yeah. So what we do see is this very
intimate group of disciples, which already includes more than
the 12. Yeah.
And then you've got groups likely that would follow him
around, referred to as crowds in some passages.
You know, I think it's, it's too simple of a reading to just
think that the crowds are just anybody who's there.
They would include people there. But like, people are
intentionally following him, right?
When you're like crowds, they travel from place to place to
hear Jesus teaching. This is not just, like,
happenstance. There's a group of people just
gets up on a soapbox and, like, starts shouting at them.
Like it's not, Yeah, it's not Times Square.
Trying to think like a modern, like, I don't know, maybe like
Swifties, you know, the way if they think if they hear that,
that Taylor Swift is in town there, they're gonna try to
track her down and figure out where she like, like.
Yeah, I'm not going there, but sure.
Yeah, fine. Great.
Yeah, Yeah. No, it would be.
Yeah, it would be. Yeah.
Yeah, there's some intentionality here to follow
Jesus. Yeah.
It's just like, sure, there's intentionality of all musicians
around or, you know, sports teams, right?
If you travel, be like, yeah, that die hard Leaf, depressed
Leaf fan, like most of them, like we'll go to Buffalo for a
game or go to Florida for game, whatever.
But yeah, for sure there's intentionality there.
So when we look at when we look at the the parable itself and
well, I think particularly Jesus is explanation for those who
have chosen to to lean in and to inquire further about what's
happening here. Jesus explains with a little bit
more detail. Still doesn't give us like all
of it, right. I feel like he's still leaves us
hanging a little bit on on like parts of it, but like he gives
us a bit of explanation, you know, so the seed that fell on
the footpath represents those of you the message only to have the
devil come up and take it away. It kind of like they almost the
image of like a bird, you know, kind of comes and grabs it,
right? Yep, seeds on the rocky soil,
representing those who hear the message receive it with joy.
But they don't have deep roots. They believe for a little while
they fall away when they face temptation.
Then there's the the thorns where they, you know, are
crowded out by the cares of the riches and pleasures of life.
And then the good soil, which is where we obviously all want to
be. We all want to be the good soil.
We want to, you know, be able to receive and be deeply rooted.
It's literally in our church's vision statements that we are,
that we are rooted in Jesus and, and growing and, and all that
good stuff. But so when we look at these
other, these other soils, I think in our, in our, in our
sermon prep, we, we talked about them as biomes, like these
little biomes of like, hey, we got like the rocky soil over
here. We got the, the thorny soil over
here. We've got the, the footpath, you
know, all that kind of thing. So when we look at our world
today, I can read those and I can think of folks, you know,
that have been in either of those situations.
I can think of times where I have been a little bit, you
know, I can identify with some of those.
What do you think is the what do you think is like the main
force, the main cultural, the the, the is the dominant, the
dominant challenge we face. And when we look at these three
different pressure points for us.
Yeah. So I I referred to that last.
So let me just get this line here.
The last group of things that Jesus lists so As for As for
what fell among the thorns? Now I'm reading from the ESV, so
apologies. They are those who hear, but as
they go on their way, they're choked by the cares and riches
and pleasures of life. Their fruit does not mature.
So I, I think that is, you know, on the one hand, I think I
referred to that as an internal pressure.
Like it is sort of this internal, call it pressure or
temptation or inclination toward, you know, certain
things. I think the dominant if if we're
gonna consider secularism as like the dominant worldview in
the West. And I think that's probably
arguably true still. Yeah.
You know, I don't know when we enter into whatever we call like
post secularism and what that looks like I I don't know, is
that like a, do we go an extra degree further into toward
secularization, like be religious sort of, I don't know,
deep churched or or do is there a return back?
I think 2 spirituality. My inclination is the second one
for like some sort of post secularism move.
But if to assume secularism is like the dominant worldview in
the West right now, I think that that last that last line is or
the last grouping of of poor soil is, you know, the dominant
soil as it were. So again, you know they go on
their way choked out by cares other translations named that
worries by riches by pleasures of life.
And so I think that the the, in many ways, what most people
would say is their primary goal in life, whether they would
articulate it this way or not, I think would simply be to
eliminate as much pain as possible and pursue as much
pleasure as possible. So the goal of life for I think
many people is to reduce pain and pursue pleasure.
So you could, there's a lot of different ways you can go with
even that language like, well, what kind of pain are we talking
about? We're talking about physical
pain, emotional, psychological, spiritual.
Like there's a whole lot of different pain that that we
would face in life. What do we do?
We try to numb pain and we try to arrive at what would be a
comfortable life. I read a book and it's not a
Christian book, but would you know I would recommend it.
It's called The Comfort Crisis and what, and I can't remember
the name of the author, but what he articulates is that nobody
grows in comfortable seasons and situations.
You don't grow when life is comfortable.
A Christian author who writes in a very similar way would be Mark
Sayers, who and I just finished his book done Anon Anon, which
is presence. And in that he and I, I quoted
him on Sunday, he says comfortable times create
comfortable Christians. So you know, we, we, we pursue
or we, we eliminate pain. We, we look for comfort.
We try to arrive at this comfortable life lifestyle and
we try to pursue pleasure, the pleasure of life riches, like
whether that's, you know, financial wealth, security,
certainty, etcetera, the ability to buy like all of that, like
money. We're trying to buy power really
at the end of the day, I think is what you are trying to do in
a sense, like money is just a proxy for power, which again,
different podcast episode. But like we, we, we try to
pursue these things to make our life as comfortable and
pleasurable as possible. You know, and, and, and so I
look at this and I think that's, you know what, what is going to
compete against people's spiritual life and development
and formation If you've committed yourself to being a
follower of Jesus. I think the worries, treasures
like cares, riches, pleasures of life are what we are at greatest
risk for. I said to briefly on Sunday that
I think in our culture like this is it.
And what I mean by that is like in a society that is largely,
and I want to be careful with this language, but largely
affluent, that's where I think our, our, the danger lies is in
not thinking that we need something external to ourself.
I've I've found that people who have very little lack at.
So a lot. They, they have a lot, yeah.
They they, they lack nothing. I mean it's really describing
like hedonism, you know, which I'm I'm sure like there that
would have been a philosophical, there would have been
understanding of that in Jesus day and they would be like, Oh,
he's talking about that. But when I see people that are
are very much in the pursuit of that they're felt need for God
is not existent, right? And and and it's it's why would
I need God? I in they again, they wouldn't
say this, but it's like I am effectively my own God.
Yeah, right. I I am self-sufficient.
I have everything I need. And, and so the thing that I
have wrestled with with that type of person is you can't
really convince them. You can't convince them that you
need God, that you need Jesus, right?
It feels it, it feels almost like a like a fool's errand, you
know? And, and it's often only in
moments of like crisis, you know, cause there are things no
matter how much money you have, no matter how much resourcing
and how big your house is, an illness can rock your world.
A devastating, you know, family crisis can, you know, can mess
you up, right? And it's sometimes in those
moments where, where then we're looking for outside of
ourselves, right? Yeah, yeah, it it is interesting
to me like what Jesus says that those those pursuits of lead to
a life that is choked out, right, which is just a very
descriptive term or language wording.
Yeah, choice that ultimately what he's saying is you'll be
choked out. You will suffocate for your
worry for your pursuit of riches and wealth, like it will become
all consuming. Yeah.
So I'm I'm reading and I I mentioned this a couple Sundays
ago, which anyways, I'm rereading The Hobbit and this is
what we see. Like the pursuit of this
mountain of riches ends up, you know, functionally driving one
of the main characters to insanity.
And he starts turning on all his friends and wars are waged
because he refuses to honor his his friendships and he refuses
to honor his commitments and promises oaths to others.
He refuses to let go of any of it because it he just becomes
all consumed by this, this mountain of wealth and by this
one, like I think it's called the Arkenstone, this one jewel,
like the prized jewel of them all.
And anyways, that shows you about how like nerdy my summers
get when I start reading Lord of the rings again or The Hobbit.
But like, This is why I love, I love writers like Tolkien and CS
Lewis to a certain extent as well in his fiction is they,
they paint these word pictures of both the beauty and promise
of God and life and how it can be.
And but what, what actually I would appreciate more is that
they paint the depths of like just human destruction and evil
that can creep into your heart and your mind.
And so, like, I just find it fascinating that she says you're
gonna get choked out by it. You're gonna pursue it to a
degree that it will choke the life out of you.
And, and I go, yeah, yeah, I there, there are seasons of life
where you can look back and feel that and go, yeah, I pursued
this one thing to the detriment of everything else around it.
And I got it and it felt hollow. Yeah, like.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Like, you know, how many, how many people do you do you hear
talk about the pursuit of whether it's fame or money, like
wealth and who go like, I got the thing and it wasn't enough.
Yeah, always wanting more. There's always more.
There is always more. So one of the most convincing
sermons I ever heard was a guy named Brian Loritz, church
planter in the States. And he he talked about how he
and his wife sat down at some point in their life and decided
what enough is. So.
So no matter how much we make, no matter how much we're
offered, no matter how much there is available to us, this
is enough. We're gonna give everything else
away because this, for us, is enough.
Wow. And I go, oh, that like
convicting, convicting, right? Yeah.
What is enough? I don't know that that's a
question that many people really wrestle with in life.
What it either you don't have enough or you have too much or
nothing is ever enough. Um, so yeah, I think that's the
danger for us in Canada right now.
Certainly I'd say I'd, you know, asterisk that and say most
people, Yep, you know, yes, it's still very, very possible to be
to live in significant financial hardship and crisis here.
But you know, as bad as I think the housing market is getting,
like when you zoom out the lens on global life and economy, you
go, yeah, OK. I think this is this is, this is
what we this is what we should worry about.
Now, the flip side, I'd be curious what you think on this
is I assume that Christians read this and go, Oh, my goodness,
can we go back and talk about that devil's line?
Like, when are you gonna get to that one?
Like, I think I think that it is in some ways more comfortable
for Christians to blame the devil for why their faith is not
flourishing because they can blame something or somebody, you
know, an entity, a person beyond themselves, outside of
themselves and go, it doesn't have anything to do with me.
This is entirely the devil's doing.
And avoid. No, actually, you have a love of
riches that's eating away at your soul.
Your worry is paralyzing your ability to move and act in
faith. Like those are things that we
need to face inside here. And we go, I don't like that.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK. Let's go back to that devil.
Line. So I'm like, I'm curious what
you think about that Because like, I think it's, it's, it's
a, we get stuck on that level, that first line.
Yeah, well, so I, I, I, I certainly feel far more
convicted by, you know, by the, the stuff we were just talking
about. Like something like, yeah, I'm,
I'm, I'm there, I'm, I'm in the weeds of, of wrestling with that
question of what is enough. And, and, and that's, that's so
worthwhile. But then when I when I actually
have like a slightly different read on the devil bit is I start
getting into some of the, the kind of the fatalistic
determinism type their conversations when it comes to
that because like, well, it's not their fault the devil did
it, you know, like, but I, I do think, yeah, I do think it
really could be used as a, as a way of kind of shirking
responsibility if we're not, if we're not cautious and careful.
But it kind of poses the question for me of what is that?
What is the person who the devil would come and take it away?
Take that that you know the the seed is is going to be planted
and they receive it and they hear the the word and then the
devil comes and takes it. Like what?
What is that type of person? So I, yeah, I don't, I think I
wanna be careful about saying what or who that type of person
is because again, I think what Jesus is doing there is just
simply stating a fact. It's a reality.
Of reality. Exactly.
So, you know, when I read the Genesis creation narrative, no
matter how you read that, literally, metaphorically, like
figured like there are just there.
Let's be honest and say there are many different, what I would
say even like faithful readings of that passage that go.
For centuries. I'm not gonna be the passer, he
says. You need to have a seven day
literal creationist Reed of Genesis in order to be a real
saved Christian. Like those people exist out
there. Let's not add to that, right?
There are many faithful ways to read that and understand it and
to allow it to be life giving and challenging and speak to
what is true. What do I know is there's a lot
of poetry there. It it is a genre of, of
literature that is not meant to be word for word historical
account of every second of every day.
So let's just name that which again, if you have questions
about what I just said, send your question to our questions
e-mail. But you know, happy for all that
conversation. When I read that Genesis
account, no matter how I read it, what, what Jesus or what,
what, what, what what Genesis is writing about, there is is a
like an an external pressure that the devil exerts on Adam
and Eve to mistrust or distrust God.
So you know, again, whether that whether whether whether Genesis
is speaking about about a literal snake who opened up its
mouth and began speaking to these two people, or whether it
is using word pictures to describe how the devil acts
toward humanity. This much is true that the devil
works to cause human beings to mistrust and distrust what God
is, what God has said, and who God is.
And so, you know, Adam and Eve in that account are faced with,
you know, this command. Don't eat from this one tree.
You can have everything else again.
What's enough? Like how much is enough?
You can have everything that's been planted and created here
except for this one thing, and the devil goes, that's not
enough, you don't have enough. God has not provided.
Did did he really say that? He's holding out.
On you, he's holding out. He doesn't know what's best for
you. He knows that if you ate from
this, you'd be like him and you'd have no need for him.
And you know, all of like, coercive and manipulative.
And so it's this external pressure that the devil exerts
on on Adam and Eve, on humanity. And it really is that line like
that's not enough. You don't have God is not
provided for you. You don't have what you need.
Like if you had this much more then yeah.
So, yeah. So when I read that line that
Jesus speaks, that's the that's the image that I have is, you
know, this there is a spiritual reality to sin and salvation.
We know it. We don't talk about the, the,
you know, um, but it's like the, like the evil side of, of the
spiritual world as much in, in our tradition, our denominations
tradition, maybe as, as others, but, but what do you, you know,
what do I believe to be true? Is that the devil works to
discourage and confuse and trick and destroy through this this
lie that you are not enough, God is not provided enough, God
cannot be trusted, and you need to do for yourself what God's
not going to do for you. Feels like mind games.
It really, yeah. That seems to be the way that
that that creeps in the most is like these, these attacks on our
on our mind and and and feeding deception and lies.
Yeah, You know, again, this is used to borrow language that I,
I don't want to borrow all of, but like that intrusive thought,
right? That's like how to, you know,
left feels like out of left field.
There's a lot of different ways I think that what I don't want
people to read. So yes, is there a reading of
this? Is there a reading of this that
is sort of that like fatalistic, deterministic, once and forever
the devil comes, takes away the word, it doesn't flourish and
they're not saved. Yes, that does happen.
That happens. Yeah, there is like that
reading. That is a write reading of what
Jesus is saying. What Jesus is not saying,
though, is that, uh, you, you are doomed to that reading if
you are afraid of it. Yeah.
Like I think that's the thing that I don't want people walking
away from. Is, is, is that a reading?
Does that happen? Yes.
Right. At a professor who used to say,
um, he, he would challenge like he himself, like what I would
call like evangelical adjacent, like leaning in that direction.
But like Reformed theologian, he would challenge the evangelicals
in our theology class around this idea of universalism,
predestination since like salvation, all of it.
And he, he would, you would say lines like, what do we know?
Like we know that that people die every day without professing
with their mouth and believing in their heart that Jesus Christ
is Lord. We know that that happens.
We also, you know, he says, he says we don't know what happens
after that moment. And so his line like to borrow
Karl Barth's line was always like, we should be like hopeful,
like we should hope for universalism.
We should hope and pray like we should pray that that God in his
love and grace and mercy, like there are these things that
happened inside of like salvation history that we don't
see inside of human history. And if you're listening online,
I'm like salvation and my arms are open, like salvation history
being widespread and I'm also hitting lights and stuff and
human history very small compared to what God sees and to
what we see all of. That is true small picture.
Absolutely. The grand scheme of humanity and
the existence of the world. We hope and pray that something
big that we can't see is at work and play, and we work as though
what we see is true. Yeah, right.
So we work and Live Today knowing that it is.
It is your created, ordered way of being to declare Jesus Lord
and Savior and to wrestle with your own sin and to realize the
need for a Savior and to repent and for Jesus's death and
resurrection to have happened inside of human history.
All of the theories of atonement accounting for in you know, a
small way what is happening between God and humanity in
those moments. Like we work because we know
those things are true and then we hope and pray that like God's
just that work in ways that we can't see and understand.
So there is a way of right way of reading this, that there are
some who will hear. And the devil, in his desire to
destroy, will do what he does and lie and cheat and steal and
destroy and choke out life. Um, that does happen, yeah.
But what I again, what I don't want people walking away with is
like the sense that, oh, I might be 1 of that group of people.
Yeah, right. Because as soon as you take that
posture, like I, I almost am willing to say it, it limit
like, it, like it eliminates the possibility that it's you.
Yeah. Like as soon as you have that
posture toward me, like, I hope not.
I think that's actually the posture that is inviting you to
take and wants you to take. Not toward fear, though.
But. Away from fear, you are.
If you're asking the questions, that means you're leaning in.
Right. And that's the secret.
The secret isn't how to get in. Yeah, the secret is like, I'm
gonna give you the secret, the secret key.
The secret code doesn't like the Speakeasy during prohibition,
like where you got like little door opens, you gotta say the
right word and they let you in, right.
It's I read this and I go like Jesus says, hey to you've been
given the secret of the Kingdom. What's the secret to ask?
Just keep going to lean. In to keep wondering to like
that's the secret. The secret is that heart posture
actually matters. And as soon as you start asking,
that is demonstrating that your heart is positioned in the right
direction. So take heart.
I guess like, like that's the piece that I want people to kind
of here. And when you when you read about
the good soil, there are people at good hearted who hear God's
word, they cling to it and patiently produce a huge
harvest. And it feels like right when I
think about like clinging to God's word clinging to clinging
to this I I envision that we are asking questions.
We are leaning in that it again, it's this meta parable.
So Jesus saying if you're leaning in your, you're
probably, you're probably in that good soil, you know, you're
probably in a you are ripe for growth when you are leaning.
In yeah, yeah yeah. And I like so that language,
cling to it in my mind, like you are clinging to something for
dear life, right? You're clinging to something to
to say, like, to really save you.
Yeah. And what?
Like what? So what does that mean?
To cling to something is almost like that's a recognition that
you're like, I'm without this thing that I'm gonna cling to.
I won't make it. Yeah.
Right. So like just dangling off a
Cliff or you get that last minute like Mission Impossible,
They're dangling out the bottom of a train and the person comes
over and grabs the arm as they let go.
Like cling to it, hold on to it. Other translations, right, who
hold it fast that I love, that cling, that language of clinging
to it. It it implies a certain like
man, like, like I need, I need God, you know, and I and and I
think that is a good a good way to a good way to think about it.
Yeah. Wanna give just as we as we
start to wrap up, I want to give the woman a shout out Yeah, I
want to go back to the beginning cause I know that we talked
about this a little bit in our sermon prep and you mentioned
that you alluded a little bit on.
Sunday, briefly. I know, I know.
But I just, I, I, I want to give these women a shout out.
Yeah, Says less of a question, more of just like, hey.
Yeah, I got preachy at the beginning, so you get preachy at
the. End great.
Yeah, so they mentioned so Mary Magdalene Joanna, the wife of
Chuza Herods business manager. I thought that was very
interesting, like just noting that OK, so hard, like bad dude
and and like connected to Herod in some way, but like covertly
doing some work for Jesus. I want to know that story, you
know? Like, yeah, I wanna chat with
her and find out what's going on there.
So and it gets it's crazier, right?
Because so business and this is again, this is where the
language matters, I think. So business is a choice in a
translation. So what does it say?
And it's accurate. More literally, it's household
manager who? So here's the thing, the
household manager was the business manager, right?
Like they managed like households here we're talking
about. So again, different time, but
we're talking about all the people living under the house
and there are stories where we know.
So bakers like people who cook chefs, food butlers, wine drink,
slaves, servants, literal family members.
Like this person had a finger in every area of this dude's life,
from his from like, from kids to spouses, yeah, to servants to
like, like, ran everything. OK, so just think about this.
So this wife of this guy named Chuza who bigwig probably
probably made some probably making bank, you know, probably
doing pretty well for himself and and she's utilizing this.
It's so subversive. It's so cool she's utilizing
some of this money to fund Jesus's ministry.
Yeah. Like it just makes me like,
makes me smile. Like I'm just like, I love this
so much. Yep.
Susanna and others. I just think it's, it's very
cool that we get this little picture into the in this case,
it's only women that are mentioned that are supporting
some white in some ways, some very through some very
subversive means, supporting the, the ministry of Jesus and
his disciples as they travel around.
Like it's just, it's remarkable. It's fascinating that in in a
patriarchal society where where these women clearly had some
means, Joanna clearly had some means, they were using that
means to further the the message of the gospel.
Like it's, it's just, it's very cool.
Luke often will take moments to sort of point out particularly
elevating the status of women. And I just think it's worth
mentioning just as a it just fills me with joy.
So especially because in two weeks the passage is the
question being posed to Jesus. Your mother and brothers are
standing outside desiring to see you like, you know, do you want
to let them in? And Jesus responds.
My mother and brother are those who hear the word of God and do
it. And in other in other, in other
gospels, it's like these are my mother and brothers.
So we're gonna move for like, these are women who are in many
ways like the like the first disciples who are called
abandoning what they were doing to pursue life with Jesus.
These are women who are abandoning what they, by society
standards, ought to be doing to pursue following Jesus.
And like that, like it's just, it's the call of a disciple.
Yeah, right. And I love it.
And then we're gonna almost double down on that by Jesus
essentially saying this is my family.
Like, you know, yeah, these these are those who who, who
actually live into that that name and privilege in some ways
so. Yeah, that's very cool stuff.
Well, as we take this moment to just thank you for sticking with
us till the end. If you have questions as we go
about the next number of weeks or maybe something in relation
to even what anything we've said here, we, we touched on some hot
topics a little bit. You can send those questions to
questions at courtrightchurch.org.
And we always take a look at those before we before we
record. And also, just to note, we're in
the summer here and it will, we are aiming to still keep our
schedule of getting these out every single week.
But you may see some different faces we're gonna be on, you
know, different schedules. I'll be away, Grant will be
away. But we'll have some guest
preachers as well. And so it may be, you know, me
interviewing my wife or, or Grant interviewing Annabelle
Edward, who's going to be teaching in a number of weeks or
whatever, right? So it could be some fun
opportunities to hear from some different folks who have not
been featured yet, but we're looking forward to it anyway.
Wherever this episode finds you, we hope you have a great rest of
your week and then just enjoy time with family, especially
over these summer months.