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Hey friends, welcome to another 
episode of KPC Podcast. 

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We're grateful to have you 
listening or watching into into 

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your week. 
We're going to jump into a 

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conversation on Luke Chapter 8, 
which we began this past Sunday.

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Great Sunday, baptism Sunday. 
This is also fun. 

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Justin's back. 
In the. 

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Podcast chair, welcome back, 
Justin. 

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Thank you. 
Tons of fun. 

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So Luke 8, if you do want to 
kind of grab a Bible and follow 

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along, if you can do that, 
great. 

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If you're driving, don't do 
that. 

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But we've got some questions and
some conversation. 

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Big large passage that I didn't 
take a what I would maybe call 

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like a full swing at just 
because we had baptism 

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membership. 
There was, it was a full, 

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wonderful, incredible service. 
And we were only 10 minutes 

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over. 
How's he? 

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Doing so this is great. 
So not that that means you 

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shouldn't have ended when you 
did, but you know, there's, 

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there's so much more. 
Like there's one of those 

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passages where there's so many 
different, different directions 

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you could go in and, and some 
different angles to approach it 

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from. 
And so hopefully we can get to 

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some of those extra things here.
Yeah, so I'd like to read the 

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passage now you've got what? 
What? 

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What version do you have? 
There I have two. 

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This is ESV and I've got NLT. 
OK. 

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And one day we'll have a podcast
conversation about translations,

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because those are very 
different. 

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Very different, yeah. 
And yeah, they do different 

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things. 
I think the quick, the quick 

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answer, the quick answer for 
today maybe, and maybe I've 

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given this answer already or 
we've talked about this, like 

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the quick answer for me. 
Um, we like you and I and, and 

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our like our preachers who 
preach on team here, Like we do 

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so much work in the Greek texts 
that like very often will 

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reference back to original 
language of texts, be it Greek 

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or Hebrew for New and Old 
Testament. 

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There's also Aramaic in there. 
There's a lot going on in terms 

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of translation. 
Each translation takes a 

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different kind of crack at it 
that any different angle of 

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approach some. 
At any rate, that's a whole 

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other conversation. 
But what I found is for certain 

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words and certain passages, it's
helpful for me just to start at 

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the right place or at a more 
accurate. 

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Place rather than having to go 
in and say, well, this would be 

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a better word here. 
This would be better because I 

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mean, yeah, words in the English
language which we are 

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translating it into, the meaning
can be shifted and changed, 

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right? 
The the Greek doesn't change, 

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but how we understand the 
interpretation of it can change.

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Yeah, exactly. 
And and like for me, the main 

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thing that I didn't want to 
create sort of accidentally or 

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subconsciously in our 
congregation is like a distrust 

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of a particular like 
translation. 

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So if I'm constantly preaching 
for. 

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So I preach primarily from the 
NIV, But if I'm constantly 

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saying actually, this 
translation doesn't get it quite

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right, what I'm subtly doing, or
at least what I could be 

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perceived as subtly doing, is 
undermining that translation. 

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Yeah. 
And saying that I am the sole 

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judge of whether that 
translation is right or wrong. 

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And I don't like, I don't ever 
want to suggest that. 

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Like, that's literally why we 
got away from only Latin 

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translations, right? 
Is for exactly that purpose and 

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that reason so. 
These translators are so smart 

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and they and they have vision 
for what they're doing. 

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And some of them are just 
different visions. 

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And, and so we need to honor and
respect the work that they've 

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done, but also some have 
strengths and some have some 

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have strengths in greater areas 
than others. 

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Yeah. 
So I just found like if I can 

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get there faster, so from the 
Greek to a specific meaning of a

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word given, like the overall 
context of the sermon, if I can 

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get there faster using a 
specific translation. 

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Now I'm choosing to use that 
translation just so that not 

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constantly having to do some of 
that like, well, this word 

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doesn't really fully articulate 
what the Greek holds. 

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Here are some other 
translations. 

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Here's one that would work 
better in this case. 

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We'll still do some of that, you
know, as we go through, but. 

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So what do you have there? 
Yeah, this ones ESV. 

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Alright, do you want me to read 
from that one? 

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Well. 
Or. 

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Double checking, Let's go NLT. 
NLT, I got them all pulled up on

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on the Bible app. 
So it's like they're all ready 

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to go. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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OK. 
So Luke 8, one through 15, so 

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soon after. 
Soon afterward, Jesus began a 

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tour of the nearby towns and 
villages, preaching and 

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announcing the good news about 
the Kingdom of God. 

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He took his 12 disciples with 
him, along with some women who 

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had been cured of evil spirits 
and diseases. 

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Among them were Mary Magdalene, 
from whom he had cast out seven 

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demons, Joanna, the wife of 
Chuza Herods, business manager 

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Susanna, and many others who 
were contributing from their own

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resources to support Jesus and 
his disciples. 

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One day Jesus told a story in 
the form of a parable to a large

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crowd that had gathered from 
many towns to hear him. 

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A farmer went out to plant a 
seed. 

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As he scattered it across his 
field, some seed fell on the 

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footpath where it was stepped 
on, and the bird and the birds 

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ate it. 
Other seed fell among rocks. 

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It began to grow, but the plant 
soon wilted and died from lack 

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for lack of moisture. 
Other seed fell among thorns and

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grew up with it and choked out 
the tender plants. 

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Still other seeds fell on 
fertile soil. 

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This seed grew and produced a 
crop that was 100 times as much 

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as he had planted. 
When he had said this, he called

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out Anyone with ears to hear 
should listen and understand. 

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His disciples asked him about 
what the parable meant. 

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He replied, You are permitted to
understand the secrets of the 

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Kingdom of God. 
But I use parables to teach the 

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others so that the Scripture 
might be fulfilled. 

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When they look, they don't 
really see. 

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When they hear, they won't 
understand. 

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Let me look at you to read the 
rest. 

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So it continues. 
This is the meaning of the 

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parable. 
The seed is God's word. 

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The seeds that fell on the 
footpath represent those who 

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hear the message, only to have 
the devil come and take it away 

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from their hearts and prevent 
them from believing and being 

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saved. 
The seeds on rocky soil 

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represent those who hear the 
message and receive it with joy,

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but since they don't have deep 
roots, they believe for a while,

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then they fall away when they 
face temptation. 

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The seeds that fell among the 
thorns represent those who hear 

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the message, but all too quickly
the message is crowded out by 

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the cares and riches and 
pleasures of this life, and so 

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they never grow into maturity. 
And the seeds that fell on the 

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good soil represent honest, good
hearted people who hear God's 

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Word, cling to it, and patiently
produce a huge harvest. 

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So it's a, it's a complex, it's 
a complex parable. 

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And we've kind of described it a
little bit as a meta parable in 

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some ways, right, That it 
describes all the parables that 

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will come in some ways. 
This is this is shining a light 

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on those and it and it gives us 
a little insight into to Jesus 

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approach to to ministry and to, 
you know, inviting people into 

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the Kingdom of God. 
And that, like Jesus often, you 

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know, is among the crowds and 
talking with them and and 

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sharing, you know, sharing the 
good news of the Kingdom of God 

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being at hand and all that. 
But it, it feels like he's doing

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something different here with 
this passage, Like he's, he's 

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sort of, you know, teasing them.
Not like not making fun of them,

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but like teasing with this 
parable. 

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Hmm. 
And then he's sort of doing this

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like, who's gonna, who's gonna 
ask more, you know? 

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Yeah. 
So maybe just share a little bit

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more about what what you see 
Jesus doing. 

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Here. 
Yeah. 

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I like that. 
I, you know, I think as soon as 

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we say, like he's testing 
people, yeah, like it goes 

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people's minds. 
I know we go to just sad places 

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about our own heart, mind, soul,
salvation. 

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Like all of it, right. 
We start to wonder just the 

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deepest, darkest fears, like, am
I good enough? 

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Am I the one who leans in? 
Am I, you know, the one to whom 

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the secrets are given? 
Or am I not like, where do I 

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fall? 
And those are good questions to 

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be asking of ourselves. 
I think as long as like you're 

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doing it in community, 
especially with folks who are 

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going to go, hey, just like 
don't let this, don't let this 

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rattle you to the core. 
Ask those questions. 

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Those are great questions to 
wonder about as long as they 

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don't start just shaking you to 
your core of who you are and 

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faith and etc. 
So I think I had a line in my 

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sermon where I said, like 
Jesus's speech is enigmatic 

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speech, but it is not 
intentionally deceptive speech. 

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Yes. 
And I think that's an important 

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piece to just highlight because 
Jesus is language that he uses 

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about the Kingdom of God, about 
the King of heaven is difficult 

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to understand. 
Like that's the idea. 

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So it is. 
It is is in some sense 

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confusing. 
It is challenging. 

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It is difficult to understand. 
It is hard to fully comprehend. 

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Like that would all be ways of 
expanding on that line, but it's

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not intentionally deceptive in 
the sense that Jesus is saying, 

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I want some of you to understand
and I want some of you to never 

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understand. 
Like, I think that's also an 

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equally problematic reading of 
it because it does. 

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It goes to that like beaten down
fear, like on your deathbed. 

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Have I done enough? 
Did I believe the right things? 

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Did I finally make it like, you 
know, am I saved? 

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Am I not saved? 
Yeah. 

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And like we've talked around 
like predestination and this is 

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no, I don't think the the 
podcast for a deep dive into, 

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you know, predestination and be 
like. 

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Election. 
Might be a little yeah, but but 

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the you know, like I I've seen 
I've seen folks like good 

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faithful love Jesus, love others
serve well, like their entire 

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life lived, you know, in many 
ways in that right, you know, 

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direction, like in line with the
Kingdom of God. 

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And then who's still like on 
their death bed go like, I 

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wonder if I'm in. 
I wonder if I made it so like 

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it's actually comical to me that
Calvin in the institutes wrote, 

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forgive me if I'm repeating 
myself here like 20 something 

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episodes in maybe. 
But you know, Calvin and the 

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institute's intended 
predestination to actually be a 

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pastoral move. 
It was to assure people of their

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salvation. 
It was a pop in his mind. 

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He's writing this like I'm going
to assure people of their 

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salvation and make sure that 
they live with the full 

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knowledge of God's grace and its
its efficacy in their life and 

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that they're in. 
And what is the human heart and 

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mind do? 
Like This is why I say like the 

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devil is a liar. 
Like takes and twists and goes. 

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You know what I'm gonna do with 
this? 

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I'm going to make sure that 
people only ever read it in its 

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inverse. 
Like, yeah, what if I'm not? 

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Maybe I'm one of the not like. 
Just so easy to do in this 

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passage. 
Absolutely, Absolutely it is. 

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And so I think that's why it's 
important to, I go back to that 

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line. 
Jesus's speech is challenging, 

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it is confusing. 
It is meant to make us pause and

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go, What is he really saying? 
What does it mean? 

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What is Jesus wanting me to hear
and understand? 

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And how is this talking about 
life, the way life really is? 

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And how is it talking about the 
Kingdom of God and how the 

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Kingdom of God really is? 
And how am I meant to find 

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myself in it and challenged by 
it? 

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If Jesus says like A + B = C, 
then we just go, OK, A + B = C 

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Um, you know, I may, maybe in 
some ways that's easier ish. 

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I I just, I don't know. 
I, I know for myself and and, 

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you know, maybe talking around 
the question here, but like, 

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listen, like you can tell me 
something five times and I might

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understand it, but get me to do 
it once and I'll not forget it. 

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00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:40,810
Yeah. 
And like, that's a very simple 

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explanation of what Jesus does, 
I think, with parables. 

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00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:49,460
Is that it? 
Ch Dodd writes that parables 

230
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tease the mind into active 
participation. 

231
00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:56,480
And I think that's the key piece
here is you get to participate 

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in the parable. 
That's Jesus intention. 

233
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He wants you leaning in in an 
active like Oh my goodness what 

234
00:14:02,650 --> 00:14:09,380
is he talking about kind of way 
and so difficult to understand 

235
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on purpose. 
Yeah. 

236
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He's not deceptive. 
He's not being opaque for the, 

237
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for the sake of like trying to 
sort of, you know, um, you know,

238
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invoke some sort of like 
Gnosticism, like there's these. 

239
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I have all the secrets. 
Yeah. 

240
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,150
And you know, I'll sell them to 
you. 

241
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,550
You know, it's, it's he's being 
provocative, you know, like, 

242
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:38,680
hey, if, if this, if this 
provoked curiosity, ask more, 

243
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:43,220
find out more like it. 
It's, it's pretty masterful in 

244
00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:47,480
terms of just his, his 
encouraging of engagement. 

245
00:14:48,250 --> 00:14:52,420
And and it does, it does have 
the effect of filtering out some

246
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:55,830
who are like, yeah, I don't, I'm
not going to be bothered. 

247
00:14:55,930 --> 00:14:57,540
I'm not, I don't, I don't want 
to know more. 

248
00:14:57,610 --> 00:15:00,940
You know, there is, there is 
that effect as well, which is 

249
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interesting. 
Yeah. 

250
00:15:01,770 --> 00:15:05,350
It's also so you know, I think I
like I mentioned it's it's 

251
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Isaiah 69 that Jesus is quoting 
here. 

252
00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:10,830
So it's it's you know, he he 
does say that I think in the NLT

253
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,480
read this at the prophecy would 
be fulfilled right. 

254
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,910
So in Isaiah 69, this is like 
Isaiah in six begins. 

255
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,310
It's one of the most iconic 
Isaiah lines. 

256
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,770
I think Isaiah 6-1 in the year 
that King Uzziah died, I saw the

257
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:30,110
Lord sitting upon the throne 
high and lifted up the train of 

258
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,250
his robe filled the temple. 
And it's this like so Isaiah is 

259
00:15:33,260 --> 00:15:37,110
like wisp the way to heaven in 
this beautiful dream of like 

260
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,820
into God's presence. 
And it's so it's it's where we 

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00:15:42,830 --> 00:15:45,500
get the line Holy, holy, holy is
the Lord of hosts. 

262
00:15:45,510 --> 00:15:48,040
The whole earth is full of his 
glory. 

263
00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:51,980
Like there's some just iconic 
lines out of this that we as 

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00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:53,740
Christians. 
If you've grown up in the church

265
00:15:53,790 --> 00:16:00,100
here and say just in church life
without really kind of maybe 

266
00:16:00,110 --> 00:16:04,410
necessarily reading it here, but
in in nine, alright, maybe let 

267
00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:07,130
me back up. 
And so in eight, this is Isaiah 

268
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:10,130
commissioning from the Lord and 
innate. 

269
00:16:10,140 --> 00:16:13,070
It says, and I heard the voice 
of the Lord saying, whom shall I

270
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,610
send and who will go for us? 
Then I said, here I am send me. 

271
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,540
And he said go. 
So the Lord says, go and say to 

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00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:24,690
this people keep on hearing but 
do not understand, keep on 

273
00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:28,850
seeing but do not perceive, make
the heart of those people dull 

274
00:16:28,940 --> 00:16:31,950
their ears, heavy their eyes 
like blind their eyes. 

275
00:16:33,450 --> 00:16:36,580
It's this critique of the people
of God like it's the critique of

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00:16:36,590 --> 00:16:43,520
Israel for not seeing and 
hearing and actively 

277
00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:49,600
participating in life with God. 
And so it, it, it is like it's a

278
00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:52,030
devastating critique on a 
people. 

279
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,190
But what do we know about like 
the, the cycle that God calls at

280
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,710
this point? 
It's, it's biblical Israel. 

281
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,810
And I use that language because 
we're not talking about 

282
00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:04,560
political Israel. 
We're talking about biblical 

283
00:17:04,569 --> 00:17:08,990
Israel. 
It's this cycle of them 

284
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,970
forgetting who they are and who 
God is and then seeing all this 

285
00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:17,500
influences from external nations
and going we want some of that 

286
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,369
and being led away from in 
multiple directions, their 

287
00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:26,010
original identity and calling to
be God's people and bless the 

288
00:17:26,020 --> 00:17:27,210
nations. 
Instead, they're being 

289
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:32,830
influenced by the nations and 
it's God's call back is never 

290
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,200
you're damned to eternity now. 
I'm done with you. 

291
00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:43,220
It's always this invitation back
around, but it requires this 

292
00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:47,660
brutal critique be ever hearing 
but don't understand. 

293
00:17:47,670 --> 00:17:49,980
Yeah, keep on seeing, but don't 
perceive. 

294
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:53,160
God calls in here. 
God calls Isaiah to declare how 

295
00:17:53,170 --> 00:17:57,880
it is, not how it will be. 
Yeah, he's saying, listen, if 

296
00:17:57,890 --> 00:18:00,340
you keep doing this, you're 
never going to understand. 

297
00:18:02,030 --> 00:18:04,520
So don't be like this. 
That's the implication here, 

298
00:18:04,530 --> 00:18:06,160
right? 
And sorry, like I kind of 

299
00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:07,960
preachy. 
But no, like I love it. 

300
00:18:07,970 --> 00:18:15,820
Come back to Luke and go, man, 
OK, Luke 8 Jesus is in some ways

301
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:21,500
like he's saying the same thing.
OK fine, keep on hearing but 

302
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:23,500
don't understand. 
Keep on seeing but don't really 

303
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:26,740
perceive what's happening. 
Like you can live that way fine,

304
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,930
but it's outside of the Kingdom 
of God and it's outside of God's

305
00:18:29,940 --> 00:18:32,350
design for you. 
So don't be like that. 

306
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:37,060
Like that's the invitation. 
It's lean in, right? 

307
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,540
Yeah, I love it. 
And I'm just noticing just think

308
00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:45,700
about this now is that like this
is the second, if not more times

309
00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:50,230
that Jesus has been, you know, 
utilizing Isaiah in particular. 

310
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:55,690
And and it it's I'm not sure you
know what the what the story is 

311
00:18:55,700 --> 00:19:00,550
there particularly for, for why 
Jesus utilizes the prophet 

312
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,550
Isaiah quite a bit. 
But it it does kind of feel like

313
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,060
the the climate that you're just
that you were just describing 

314
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:09,130
that Isaiah is walking into he's
like, here I am. 

315
00:19:09,140 --> 00:19:11,260
Send me. 
I'm going to go, you know, I'm 

316
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:14,560
gonna go, you know, send. 
I'm gonna be this messenger for 

317
00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:17,160
God. 
Yeah, it certainly feels like 

318
00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:22,120
Jesus is is reenacting this in a
more even in a more full way and

319
00:19:22,130 --> 00:19:27,580
and calling God's people to 
something even greater than what

320
00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:29,960
perhaps even Isaiah was calling 
the people to. 

321
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,620
Yeah, yeah. 
And and we do like Isaiah is 

322
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:34,740
what Jesus reads from in the 
temple. 

323
00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:41,570
He unrolls the scroll and like 
that's what is there and that's,

324
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,110
you know, maybe maybe where, 
maybe just where they were in 

325
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,060
their reading. 
That would be. 

326
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:48,650
Interesting. 
But, you know, we don't know 

327
00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:50,910
that we don't know. 
And you know, what we are told 

328
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,540
in that passage is that he 
unrolls the scroll to that 

329
00:19:53,550 --> 00:19:54,400
place. 
Yeah. 

330
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,700
But the reality is we're talking
about scrolls. 

331
00:19:58,370 --> 00:20:01,730
Like maybe they maybe they were 
just in Isaiah reading their way

332
00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:03,640
through. 
Like that's just anyways. 

333
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:05,850
It's a lot of work to to sift 
through those scrolls. 

334
00:20:05,860 --> 00:20:07,330
Yeah. 
Well, yeah, because yeah, it's 

335
00:20:07,340 --> 00:20:08,600
not. 
It's not all bound in. 

336
00:20:08,890 --> 00:20:11,150
In an easy way. 
You gotta go all the way through

337
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,180
this big scroll and find your 
spot. 

338
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:20,250
But no, I do think that in many 
ways what what you said rings 

339
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:23,210
true for me that the spiritual 
climate that Isaiah is called to

340
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:27,350
speak to is, you know, I think 
what we see Jesus is very 

341
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:32,870
similar spiritual climate. 
And you know, in some ways I 

342
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,440
think actually it's a very 
similar spiritual climate to 

343
00:20:36,450 --> 00:20:39,080
where we sit in 2025. 
And maybe that's just, you know,

344
00:20:39,090 --> 00:20:42,770
we're perpetually there as human
beings in that spiritual 

345
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:47,490
climate. 
But I do think that there's this

346
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:57,760
striking a similarity between 
our, you know, unwillingness, 

347
00:20:57,770 --> 00:21:02,640
inability to to see and really 
perceive what God is doing to 

348
00:21:02,650 --> 00:21:07,020
hear and really hear and listen.
And there's like just that human

349
00:21:07,030 --> 00:21:09,740
proclivity to be like, yeah, OK,
even if I believe it, I just, I 

350
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:12,120
don't really want to hear it. 
I don't really want to 

351
00:21:12,130 --> 00:21:14,820
understand it because that means
I gotta change the way I live. 

352
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:18,210
And at the end of the day, I 
think that's the call. 

353
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:21,220
That's what Jesus call is 
actually challenging us toward 

354
00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:27,560
is if, you know, the call of the
disciple will challenge you to 

355
00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:29,760
live your life differently. 
Hmm. 

356
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,400
And not only that, but there 
will be all this pressure from 

357
00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:36,700
the outside to convince you it's
not a good idea. 

358
00:21:36,810 --> 00:21:38,620
Yeah. 
And because that's where it goes

359
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:42,880
with the parable is right, 
Here's this call. 

360
00:21:43,290 --> 00:21:48,520
If you've got ears here, like 
really here, anybody can choose 

361
00:21:48,530 --> 00:21:53,240
to listen to this, but you have 
to choose to have ears to hear. 

362
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:59,080
I think it's worth noting in 
that is that so it says in verse

363
00:21:59,090 --> 00:22:02,660
9 that his disciples asked him 
what this parallel meant. 

364
00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:05,860
And the one thing I think it's 
good good to remind people of is

365
00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:09,680
that like that doesn't 
inherently just mean the 12th. 

366
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:13,590
I think that you could say 
anyone like there throughout the

367
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,240
scripture is like throughout the
gospels. 

368
00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:17,880
Many are listed as disciples, 
right? 

369
00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:23,200
Yes, he had his 12, but it could
have been a lot, much larger 

370
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:25,910
group of people who who chose to
lean in. 

371
00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:27,510
Right. 
I think I, yeah. 

372
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,150
And I, I'm gonna be wrong on 
this as soon as I say it, but I 

373
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,110
think like there are there are 
commentators, there are writers,

374
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,030
historians who would suggest 
like in the hundreds. 

375
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,590
Yeah, yeah. 
The the difference between 

376
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,170
you've got you've got the 
apostle, you've got the 12 who 

377
00:22:42,180 --> 00:22:43,680
look, calls apostles. 
Yeah. 

378
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,930
On top of just being disciples, 
then you've got there like very 

379
00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:50,490
specific call to discipleship 
stories throughout the Gospels. 

380
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,360
But what do we see at the 
beginning of this passage? 

381
00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:54,210
Right, so there's several women 
mentioned. 

382
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:58,630
Women who are mentioned by name,
which again, like I think is 

383
00:22:58,730 --> 00:23:01,930
there are a few things that when
we read Scripture should make us

384
00:23:01,940 --> 00:23:05,530
pause and stop and go, OK, this 
is significant. 

385
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,690
And the one which we talk about 
it often is any word that's 

386
00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:12,980
repeated twice. 
So Jesus has these lines where 

387
00:23:12,990 --> 00:23:14,920
he says Amen, Amen. 
They're truly, truly. 

388
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:18,820
I say to you and you go, OK, so 
exclamation mark at the very 

389
00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:21,820
beginning of the sentence. 
Pay attention. 

390
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,300
This is what he's saying, right?
I'm about to say something 

391
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:27,380
important. 
Also, names, like when 

392
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:32,140
individuals are named, it 
matters and. 

393
00:23:33,310 --> 00:23:38,820
But on the other hand, just 
because groups of people are not

394
00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:40,740
named, it doesn't mean that 
they're absent. 

395
00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:44,900
Yeah. 
So what we do see is this very 

396
00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:48,640
intimate group of disciples, 
which already includes more than

397
00:23:48,650 --> 00:23:50,260
the 12. 
Yeah. 

398
00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:54,860
And then you've got groups 
likely that would follow him 

399
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:58,620
around, referred to as crowds in
some passages. 

400
00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:02,680
You know, I think it's, it's too
simple of a reading to just 

401
00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:05,480
think that the crowds are just 
anybody who's there. 

402
00:24:05,550 --> 00:24:07,740
They would include people there.
But like, people are 

403
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:09,260
intentionally following him, 
right? 

404
00:24:09,270 --> 00:24:11,980
When you're like crowds, they 
travel from place to place to 

405
00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:14,620
hear Jesus teaching. 
This is not just, like, 

406
00:24:15,010 --> 00:24:17,480
happenstance. 
There's a group of people just 

407
00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:20,270
gets up on a soapbox and, like, 
starts shouting at them. 

408
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,130
Like it's not, Yeah, it's not 
Times Square. 

409
00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:26,920
Trying to think like a modern, 
like, I don't know, maybe like 

410
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:29,580
Swifties, you know, the way if 
they think if they hear that, 

411
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:32,330
that Taylor Swift is in town 
there, they're gonna try to 

412
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,440
track her down and figure out 
where she like, like. 

413
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,250
Yeah, I'm not going there, but 
sure. 

414
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:38,550
Yeah, fine. 
Great. 

415
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:41,810
Yeah, Yeah. 
No, it would be. 

416
00:24:41,820 --> 00:24:44,390
Yeah, it would be. 
Yeah. 

417
00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:47,390
Yeah, there's some 
intentionality here to follow 

418
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,040
Jesus. 
Yeah. 

419
00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:50,400
It's just like, sure, there's 
intentionality of all musicians 

420
00:24:50,410 --> 00:24:52,320
around or, you know, sports 
teams, right? 

421
00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:56,450
If you travel, be like, yeah, 
that die hard Leaf, depressed 

422
00:24:56,460 --> 00:25:01,350
Leaf fan, like most of them, 
like we'll go to Buffalo for a 

423
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:02,930
game or go to Florida for game, 
whatever. 

424
00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:05,580
But yeah, for sure there's 
intentionality there. 

425
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:12,830
So when we look at when we look 
at the the parable itself and 

426
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,780
well, I think particularly Jesus
is explanation for those who 

427
00:25:16,790 --> 00:25:21,600
have chosen to to lean in and to
inquire further about what's 

428
00:25:21,610 --> 00:25:25,450
happening here. 
Jesus explains with a little bit

429
00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:27,730
more detail. 
Still doesn't give us like all 

430
00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:29,790
of it, right. 
I feel like he's still leaves us

431
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,090
hanging a little bit on on like 
parts of it, but like he gives 

432
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:35,540
us a bit of explanation, you 
know, so the seed that fell on 

433
00:25:35,550 --> 00:25:38,520
the footpath represents those of
you the message only to have the

434
00:25:38,530 --> 00:25:41,800
devil come up and take it away. 
It kind of like they almost the 

435
00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:44,720
image of like a bird, you know, 
kind of comes and grabs it, 

436
00:25:44,730 --> 00:25:47,770
right? 
Yep, seeds on the rocky soil, 

437
00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:51,000
representing those who hear the 
message receive it with joy. 

438
00:25:51,050 --> 00:25:54,100
But they don't have deep roots. 
They believe for a little while 

439
00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:56,860
they fall away when they face 
temptation. 

440
00:25:56,970 --> 00:26:00,270
Then there's the the thorns 
where they, you know, are 

441
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,090
crowded out by the cares of the 
riches and pleasures of life. 

442
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,640
And then the good soil, which is
where we obviously all want to 

443
00:26:06,650 --> 00:26:08,860
be. 
We all want to be the good soil.

444
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:13,060
We want to, you know, be able to
receive and be deeply rooted. 

445
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:16,240
It's literally in our church's 
vision statements that we are, 

446
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:22,210
that we are rooted in Jesus and,
and growing and, and all that 

447
00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:24,410
good stuff. 
But so when we look at these 

448
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,410
other, these other soils, I 
think in our, in our, in our 

449
00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:32,700
sermon prep, we, we talked about
them as biomes, like these 

450
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:35,510
little biomes of like, hey, we 
got like the rocky soil over 

451
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,430
here. 
We got the, the thorny soil over

452
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,900
here. 
We've got the, the footpath, you

453
00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:45,090
know, all that kind of thing. 
So when we look at our world 

454
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:50,700
today, I can read those and I 
can think of folks, you know, 

455
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:52,840
that have been in either of 
those situations. 

456
00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:56,810
I can think of times where I 
have been a little bit, you 

457
00:26:56,820 --> 00:26:58,460
know, I can identify with some 
of those. 

458
00:26:59,310 --> 00:27:05,370
What do you think is the what do
you think is like the main 

459
00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:11,820
force, the main cultural, the 
the, the is the dominant, the 

460
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:14,940
dominant challenge we face. 
And when we look at these three 

461
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:19,570
different pressure points for 
us. 

462
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:25,660
Yeah. 
So I I referred to that last. 

463
00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:27,690
So let me just get this line 
here. 

464
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:38,630
The last group of things that 
Jesus lists so As for As for 

465
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,150
what fell among the thorns? 
Now I'm reading from the ESV, so

466
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,670
apologies. 
They are those who hear, but as 

467
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,990
they go on their way, they're 
choked by the cares and riches 

468
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,950
and pleasures of life. 
Their fruit does not mature. 

469
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:57,760
So I, I think that is, you know,
on the one hand, I think I 

470
00:27:57,770 --> 00:28:00,650
referred to that as an internal 
pressure. 

471
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:05,940
Like it is sort of this 
internal, call it pressure or 

472
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:09,300
temptation or inclination 
toward, you know, certain 

473
00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:12,330
things. 
I think the dominant if if we're

474
00:28:12,340 --> 00:28:18,670
gonna consider secularism as 
like the dominant worldview in 

475
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,150
the West. 
And I think that's probably 

476
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,800
arguably true still. 
Yeah. 

477
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,010
You know, I don't know when we 
enter into whatever we call like

478
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:33,390
post secularism and what that 
looks like I I don't know, is 

479
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,670
that like a, do we go an extra 
degree further into toward 

480
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:44,640
secularization, like be 
religious sort of, I don't know,

481
00:28:44,650 --> 00:28:48,890
deep churched or or do is there 
a return back? 

482
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:52,390
I think 2 spirituality. 
My inclination is the second one

483
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,630
for like some sort of post 
secularism move. 

484
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,850
But if to assume secularism is 
like the dominant worldview in 

485
00:29:00,860 --> 00:29:07,110
the West right now, I think that
that last that last line is or 

486
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,240
the last grouping of of poor 
soil is, you know, the dominant 

487
00:29:14,290 --> 00:29:19,890
soil as it were. 
So again, you know they go on 

488
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:24,220
their way choked out by cares 
other translations named that 

489
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:28,360
worries by riches by pleasures 
of life. 

490
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:34,640
And so I think that the the, in 
many ways, what most people 

491
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:40,870
would say is their primary goal 
in life, whether they would 

492
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,600
articulate it this way or not, I
think would simply be to 

493
00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:50,490
eliminate as much pain as 
possible and pursue as much 

494
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,330
pleasure as possible. 
So the goal of life for I think 

495
00:29:54,340 --> 00:29:59,910
many people is to reduce pain 
and pursue pleasure. 

496
00:30:00,620 --> 00:30:04,190
So you could, there's a lot of 
different ways you can go with 

497
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,060
even that language like, well, 
what kind of pain are we talking

498
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:08,250
about? 
We're talking about physical 

499
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:10,050
pain, emotional, psychological, 
spiritual. 

500
00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:13,030
Like there's a whole lot of 
different pain that that we 

501
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,100
would face in life. 
What do we do? 

502
00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:21,070
We try to numb pain and we try 
to arrive at what would be a 

503
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,860
comfortable life. 
I read a book and it's not a 

504
00:30:25,870 --> 00:30:29,890
Christian book, but would you 
know I would recommend it. 

505
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:35,460
It's called The Comfort Crisis 
and what, and I can't remember 

506
00:30:35,470 --> 00:30:38,260
the name of the author, but what
he articulates is that nobody 

507
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:42,500
grows in comfortable seasons and
situations. 

508
00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:44,780
You don't grow when life is 
comfortable. 

509
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:48,260
A Christian author who writes in
a very similar way would be Mark

510
00:30:48,270 --> 00:30:54,410
Sayers, who and I just finished 
his book done Anon Anon, which 

511
00:30:54,420 --> 00:30:58,050
is presence. 
And in that he and I, I quoted 

512
00:30:58,060 --> 00:31:01,210
him on Sunday, he says 
comfortable times create 

513
00:31:01,220 --> 00:31:07,120
comfortable Christians. 
So you know, we, we, we pursue 

514
00:31:07,170 --> 00:31:10,240
or we, we eliminate pain. 
We, we look for comfort. 

515
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:14,420
We try to arrive at this 
comfortable life lifestyle and 

516
00:31:14,430 --> 00:31:17,900
we try to pursue pleasure, the 
pleasure of life riches, like 

517
00:31:17,910 --> 00:31:21,140
whether that's, you know, 
financial wealth, security, 

518
00:31:21,150 --> 00:31:24,960
certainty, etcetera, the ability
to buy like all of that, like 

519
00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:26,840
money. 
We're trying to buy power really

520
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:31,280
at the end of the day, I think 
is what you are trying to do in 

521
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:33,780
a sense, like money is just a 
proxy for power, which again, 

522
00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:38,750
different podcast episode. 
But like we, we, we try to 

523
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,110
pursue these things to make our 
life as comfortable and 

524
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,480
pleasurable as possible. 
You know, and, and, and so I 

525
00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:52,300
look at this and I think that's,
you know what, what is going to 

526
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:56,220
compete against people's 
spiritual life and development 

527
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:58,960
and formation If you've 
committed yourself to being a 

528
00:31:58,970 --> 00:32:04,040
follower of Jesus. 
I think the worries, treasures 

529
00:32:04,050 --> 00:32:10,380
like cares, riches, pleasures of
life are what we are at greatest

530
00:32:10,390 --> 00:32:16,030
risk for. 
I said to briefly on Sunday that

531
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,680
I think in our culture like this
is it. 

532
00:32:21,690 --> 00:32:27,260
And what I mean by that is like 
in a society that is largely, 

533
00:32:27,270 --> 00:32:29,540
and I want to be careful with 
this language, but largely 

534
00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:37,140
affluent, that's where I think 
our, our, the danger lies is in 

535
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:43,460
not thinking that we need 
something external to ourself. 

536
00:32:44,050 --> 00:32:52,750
I've I've found that people who 
have very little lack at. 

537
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,410
So a lot. 
They, they have a lot, yeah. 

538
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:01,320
They they, they lack nothing. 
I mean it's really describing 

539
00:33:01,330 --> 00:33:04,380
like hedonism, you know, which 
I'm I'm sure like there that 

540
00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:08,360
would have been a philosophical,
there would have been 

541
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:10,980
understanding of that in Jesus 
day and they would be like, Oh, 

542
00:33:10,990 --> 00:33:16,160
he's talking about that. 
But when I see people that are 

543
00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:23,470
are very much in the pursuit of 
that they're felt need for God 

544
00:33:24,530 --> 00:33:29,360
is not existent, right? 
And and and it's it's why would 

545
00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:31,570
I need God? 
I in they again, they wouldn't 

546
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:34,160
say this, but it's like I am 
effectively my own God. 

547
00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:37,200
Yeah, right. 
I I am self-sufficient. 

548
00:33:37,270 --> 00:33:46,060
I have everything I need. 
And, and so the thing that I 

549
00:33:46,170 --> 00:33:52,370
have wrestled with with that 
type of person is you can't 

550
00:33:52,380 --> 00:33:55,340
really convince them. 
You can't convince them that you

551
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:58,020
need God, that you need Jesus, 
right? 

552
00:33:58,410 --> 00:34:03,050
It feels it, it feels almost 
like a like a fool's errand, you

553
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:07,150
know? 
And, and it's often only in 

554
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,989
moments of like crisis, you 
know, cause there are things no 

555
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,460
matter how much money you have, 
no matter how much resourcing 

556
00:34:15,469 --> 00:34:20,080
and how big your house is, an 
illness can rock your world. 

557
00:34:20,469 --> 00:34:24,070
A devastating, you know, family 
crisis can, you know, can mess 

558
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,120
you up, right? 
And it's sometimes in those 

559
00:34:26,130 --> 00:34:29,409
moments where, where then we're 
looking for outside of 

560
00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:34,260
ourselves, right? 
Yeah, yeah, it it is interesting

561
00:34:34,270 --> 00:34:39,090
to me like what Jesus says that 
those those pursuits of lead to 

562
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:43,040
a life that is choked out, 
right, which is just a very 

563
00:34:43,050 --> 00:34:47,780
descriptive term or language 
wording. 

564
00:34:47,830 --> 00:34:51,679
Yeah, choice that ultimately 
what he's saying is you'll be 

565
00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:57,000
choked out. 
You will suffocate for your 

566
00:34:57,010 --> 00:35:01,870
worry for your pursuit of riches
and wealth, like it will become 

567
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,410
all consuming. 
Yeah. 

568
00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:06,880
So I'm I'm reading and I I 
mentioned this a couple Sundays 

569
00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:12,530
ago, which anyways, I'm 
rereading The Hobbit and this is

570
00:35:12,540 --> 00:35:17,720
what we see. 
Like the pursuit of this 

571
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:24,280
mountain of riches ends up, you 
know, functionally driving one 

572
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:27,080
of the main characters to 
insanity. 

573
00:35:27,590 --> 00:35:33,480
And he starts turning on all his
friends and wars are waged 

574
00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:39,830
because he refuses to honor his 
his friendships and he refuses 

575
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,660
to honor his commitments and 
promises oaths to others. 

576
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:48,860
He refuses to let go of any of 
it because it he just becomes 

577
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:54,190
all consumed by this, this 
mountain of wealth and by this 

578
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,950
one, like I think it's called 
the Arkenstone, this one jewel, 

579
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,030
like the prized jewel of them 
all. 

580
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,790
And anyways, that shows you 
about how like nerdy my summers 

581
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,770
get when I start reading Lord of
the rings again or The Hobbit. 

582
00:36:07,780 --> 00:36:13,870
But like, This is why I love, I 
love writers like Tolkien and CS

583
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,910
Lewis to a certain extent as 
well in his fiction is they, 

584
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,980
they paint these word pictures 
of both the beauty and promise 

585
00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:28,240
of God and life and how it can 
be. 

586
00:36:28,330 --> 00:36:31,390
And but what, what actually I 
would appreciate more is that 

587
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,910
they paint the depths of like 
just human destruction and evil 

588
00:36:37,150 --> 00:36:39,800
that can creep into your heart 
and your mind. 

589
00:36:39,810 --> 00:36:42,990
And so, like, I just find it 
fascinating that she says you're

590
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,580
gonna get choked out by it. 
You're gonna pursue it to a 

591
00:36:45,590 --> 00:36:49,200
degree that it will choke the 
life out of you. 

592
00:36:50,130 --> 00:36:53,520
And, and I go, yeah, yeah, I 
there, there are seasons of life

593
00:36:53,530 --> 00:36:57,690
where you can look back and feel
that and go, yeah, I pursued 

594
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,020
this one thing to the detriment 
of everything else around it. 

595
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:06,430
And I got it and it felt hollow.
Yeah, like. 

596
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,330
Yeah. 
Well, yeah. 

597
00:37:07,340 --> 00:37:11,070
Like, you know, how many, how 
many people do you do you hear 

598
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,230
talk about the pursuit of 
whether it's fame or money, like

599
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,170
wealth and who go like, I got 
the thing and it wasn't enough. 

600
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:21,290
Yeah, always wanting more. 
There's always more. 

601
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:25,660
There is always more. 
So one of the most convincing 

602
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:29,760
sermons I ever heard was a guy 
named Brian Loritz, church 

603
00:37:29,770 --> 00:37:33,960
planter in the States. 
And he he talked about how he 

604
00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:38,580
and his wife sat down at some 
point in their life and decided 

605
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:41,240
what enough is. 
So. 

606
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:43,480
So no matter how much we make, 
no matter how much we're 

607
00:37:43,490 --> 00:37:47,380
offered, no matter how much 
there is available to us, this 

608
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:49,990
is enough. 
We're gonna give everything else

609
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,880
away because this, for us, is 
enough. 

610
00:37:52,650 --> 00:37:55,620
Wow. 
And I go, oh, that like 

611
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:59,140
convicting, convicting, right? 
Yeah. 

612
00:37:59,150 --> 00:38:01,410
What is enough? 
I don't know that that's a 

613
00:38:01,420 --> 00:38:05,000
question that many people really
wrestle with in life. 

614
00:38:05,790 --> 00:38:09,040
What it either you don't have 
enough or you have too much or 

615
00:38:09,090 --> 00:38:14,740
nothing is ever enough. 
Um, so yeah, I think that's the 

616
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:17,110
danger for us in Canada right 
now. 

617
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,330
Certainly I'd say I'd, you know,
asterisk that and say most 

618
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,170
people, Yep, you know, yes, it's
still very, very possible to be 

619
00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:30,640
to live in significant financial
hardship and crisis here. 

620
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:34,970
But you know, as bad as I think 
the housing market is getting, 

621
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:40,840
like when you zoom out the lens 
on global life and economy, you 

622
00:38:40,850 --> 00:38:43,960
go, yeah, OK. 
I think this is this is, this is

623
00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:45,720
what we this is what we should 
worry about. 

624
00:38:45,810 --> 00:38:48,280
Now, the flip side, I'd be 
curious what you think on this 

625
00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:56,880
is I assume that Christians read
this and go, Oh, my goodness, 

626
00:38:57,330 --> 00:38:59,700
can we go back and talk about 
that devil's line? 

627
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:02,250
Like, when are you gonna get to 
that one? 

628
00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:08,850
Like, I think I think that it is
in some ways more comfortable 

629
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:16,470
for Christians to blame the 
devil for why their faith is not

630
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:21,510
flourishing because they can 
blame something or somebody, you

631
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,630
know, an entity, a person beyond
themselves, outside of 

632
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,720
themselves and go, it doesn't 
have anything to do with me. 

633
00:39:31,580 --> 00:39:33,950
This is entirely the devil's 
doing. 

634
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,670
And avoid. 
No, actually, you have a love of

635
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,090
riches that's eating away at 
your soul. 

636
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:49,880
Your worry is paralyzing your 
ability to move and act in 

637
00:39:49,890 --> 00:39:52,540
faith. 
Like those are things that we 

638
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:56,320
need to face inside here. 
And we go, I don't like that. 

639
00:39:56,330 --> 00:39:57,110
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

640
00:39:57,150 --> 00:39:58,420
OK. 
Let's go back to that devil. 

641
00:39:58,430 --> 00:40:00,830
Line. 
So I'm like, I'm curious what 

642
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,260
you think about that Because 
like, I think it's, it's, it's 

643
00:40:04,270 --> 00:40:06,660
a, we get stuck on that level, 
that first line. 

644
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:12,830
Yeah, well, so I, I, I, I 
certainly feel far more 

645
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,190
convicted by, you know, by the, 
the stuff we were just talking 

646
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,550
about. 
Like something like, yeah, I'm, 

647
00:40:18,620 --> 00:40:22,040
I'm, I'm there, I'm, I'm in the 
weeds of, of wrestling with that

648
00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:26,950
question of what is enough. 
And, and, and that's, that's so 

649
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,880
worthwhile. 
But then when I when I actually 

650
00:40:29,890 --> 00:40:33,690
have like a slightly different 
read on the devil bit is I start

651
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,590
getting into some of the, the 
kind of the fatalistic 

652
00:40:39,070 --> 00:40:42,400
determinism type their 
conversations when it comes to 

653
00:40:42,410 --> 00:40:45,760
that because like, well, it's 
not their fault the devil did 

654
00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:51,380
it, you know, like, but I, I do 
think, yeah, I do think it 

655
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:57,080
really could be used as a, as a 
way of kind of shirking 

656
00:40:57,090 --> 00:41:00,400
responsibility if we're not, if 
we're not cautious and careful. 

657
00:41:00,540 --> 00:41:05,400
But it kind of poses the 
question for me of what is that?

658
00:41:05,450 --> 00:41:12,870
What is the person who the devil
would come and take it away? 

659
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,480
Take that that you know the the 
seed is is going to be planted 

660
00:41:16,490 --> 00:41:19,950
and they receive it and they 
hear the the word and then the 

661
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,350
devil comes and takes it. 
Like what? 

662
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:26,740
What is that type of person? 
So I, yeah, I don't, I think I 

663
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:30,210
wanna be careful about saying 
what or who that type of person 

664
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:35,250
is because again, I think what 
Jesus is doing there is just 

665
00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:38,610
simply stating a fact. 
It's a reality. 

666
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:40,050
Of reality. 
Exactly. 

667
00:41:40,060 --> 00:41:46,990
So, you know, when I read the 
Genesis creation narrative, no 

668
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,890
matter how you read that, 
literally, metaphorically, like 

669
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:53,030
figured like there are just 
there. 

670
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:57,200
Let's be honest and say there 
are many different, what I would

671
00:41:57,210 --> 00:42:01,810
say even like faithful readings 
of that passage that go. 

672
00:42:01,950 --> 00:42:04,320
For centuries. 
I'm not gonna be the passer, he 

673
00:42:04,330 --> 00:42:06,380
says. 
You need to have a seven day 

674
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:10,300
literal creationist Reed of 
Genesis in order to be a real 

675
00:42:10,310 --> 00:42:13,110
saved Christian. 
Like those people exist out 

676
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,410
there. 
Let's not add to that, right? 

677
00:42:15,420 --> 00:42:18,000
There are many faithful ways to 
read that and understand it and 

678
00:42:18,010 --> 00:42:21,930
to allow it to be life giving 
and challenging and speak to 

679
00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:24,590
what is true. 
What do I know is there's a lot 

680
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,410
of poetry there. 
It it is a genre of, of 

681
00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:33,490
literature that is not meant to 
be word for word historical 

682
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,560
account of every second of every
day. 

683
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:42,410
So let's just name that which 
again, if you have questions 

684
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:45,230
about what I just said, send 
your question to our questions 

685
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,450
e-mail. 
But you know, happy for all that

686
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:50,460
conversation. 
When I read that Genesis 

687
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:53,790
account, no matter how I read 
it, what, what Jesus or what, 

688
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:59,770
what, what, what what Genesis is
writing about, there is is a 

689
00:43:00,470 --> 00:43:06,100
like an an external pressure 
that the devil exerts on Adam 

690
00:43:06,110 --> 00:43:11,770
and Eve to mistrust or distrust 
God. 

691
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:18,340
So you know, again, whether that
whether whether whether Genesis 

692
00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:22,420
is speaking about about a 
literal snake who opened up its 

693
00:43:22,430 --> 00:43:26,140
mouth and began speaking to 
these two people, or whether it 

694
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:30,280
is using word pictures to 
describe how the devil acts 

695
00:43:30,290 --> 00:43:34,220
toward humanity. 
This much is true that the devil

696
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:43,010
works to cause human beings to 
mistrust and distrust what God 

697
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:46,290
is, what God has said, and who 
God is. 

698
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:53,920
And so, you know, Adam and Eve 
in that account are faced with, 

699
00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:56,820
you know, this command. 
Don't eat from this one tree. 

700
00:43:56,830 --> 00:43:58,840
You can have everything else 
again. 

701
00:43:58,850 --> 00:44:01,430
What's enough? 
Like how much is enough? 

702
00:44:01,630 --> 00:44:04,790
You can have everything that's 
been planted and created here 

703
00:44:05,130 --> 00:44:09,690
except for this one thing, and 
the devil goes, that's not 

704
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:14,340
enough, you don't have enough. 
God has not provided. 

705
00:44:14,350 --> 00:44:16,620
Did did he really say that? 
He's holding out. 

706
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:18,700
On you, he's holding out. 
He doesn't know what's best for 

707
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:20,420
you. 
He knows that if you ate from 

708
00:44:20,430 --> 00:44:22,560
this, you'd be like him and 
you'd have no need for him. 

709
00:44:22,570 --> 00:44:25,240
And you know, all of like, 
coercive and manipulative. 

710
00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:30,580
And so it's this external 
pressure that the devil exerts 

711
00:44:30,590 --> 00:44:37,770
on on Adam and Eve, on humanity.
And it really is that line like 

712
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:41,110
that's not enough. 
You don't have God is not 

713
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,740
provided for you. 
You don't have what you need. 

714
00:44:44,430 --> 00:44:48,830
Like if you had this much more 
then yeah. 

715
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,510
So, yeah. 
So when I read that line that 

716
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:58,250
Jesus speaks, that's the that's 
the image that I have is, you 

717
00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:02,190
know, this there is a spiritual 
reality to sin and salvation. 

718
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,550
We know it. 
We don't talk about the, the, 

719
00:45:05,860 --> 00:45:11,970
you know, um, but it's like the,
like the evil side of, of the 

720
00:45:11,980 --> 00:45:16,210
spiritual world as much in, in 
our tradition, our denominations

721
00:45:16,220 --> 00:45:20,950
tradition, maybe as, as others, 
but, but what do you, you know, 

722
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,960
what do I believe to be true? 
Is that the devil works to 

723
00:45:26,970 --> 00:45:34,520
discourage and confuse and trick
and destroy through this this 

724
00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:40,670
lie that you are not enough, God
is not provided enough, God 

725
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,270
cannot be trusted, and you need 
to do for yourself what God's 

726
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,890
not going to do for you. 
Feels like mind games. 

727
00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:51,350
It really, yeah. 
That seems to be the way that 

728
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:57,130
that that creeps in the most is 
like these, these attacks on our

729
00:45:57,140 --> 00:46:00,850
on our mind and and and feeding 
deception and lies. 

730
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:06,720
Yeah, You know, again, this is 
used to borrow language that I, 

731
00:46:07,420 --> 00:46:11,280
I don't want to borrow all of, 
but like that intrusive thought,

732
00:46:11,860 --> 00:46:13,560
right? 
That's like how to, you know, 

733
00:46:13,570 --> 00:46:15,550
left feels like out of left 
field. 

734
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,770
There's a lot of different ways 
I think that what I don't want 

735
00:46:19,780 --> 00:46:22,540
people to read. 
So yes, is there a reading of 

736
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:24,170
this? 
Is there a reading of this that 

737
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:29,560
is sort of that like fatalistic,
deterministic, once and forever 

738
00:46:30,110 --> 00:46:33,400
the devil comes, takes away the 
word, it doesn't flourish and 

739
00:46:33,410 --> 00:46:35,840
they're not saved. 
Yes, that does happen. 

740
00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:39,160
That happens. 
Yeah, there is like that 

741
00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:42,220
reading. 
That is a write reading of what 

742
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:46,160
Jesus is saying. 
What Jesus is not saying, 

743
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:57,630
though, is that, uh, you, you 
are doomed to that reading if 

744
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,470
you are afraid of it. 
Yeah. 

745
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,770
Like I think that's the thing 
that I don't want people walking

746
00:47:01,780 --> 00:47:03,840
away from. 
Is, is, is that a reading? 

747
00:47:03,850 --> 00:47:05,370
Does that happen? 
Yes. 

748
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,290
Right. 
At a professor who used to say, 

749
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:15,690
um, he, he would challenge like 
he himself, like what I would 

750
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:20,700
call like evangelical adjacent, 
like leaning in that direction. 

751
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:27,160
But like Reformed theologian, he
would challenge the evangelicals

752
00:47:27,170 --> 00:47:33,840
in our theology class around 
this idea of universalism, 

753
00:47:34,580 --> 00:47:38,600
predestination since like 
salvation, all of it. 

754
00:47:40,290 --> 00:47:44,710
And he, he would, you would say 
lines like, what do we know? 

755
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:50,670
Like we know that that people 
die every day without professing

756
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,390
with their mouth and believing 
in their heart that Jesus Christ

757
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,570
is Lord. 
We know that that happens. 

758
00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:59,100
We also, you know, he says, he 
says we don't know what happens 

759
00:47:59,110 --> 00:48:03,570
after that moment. 
And so his line like to borrow 

760
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:08,110
Karl Barth's line was always 
like, we should be like hopeful,

761
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,460
like we should hope for 
universalism. 

762
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:14,790
We should hope and pray like we 
should pray that that God in his

763
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,950
love and grace and mercy, like 
there are these things that 

764
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,990
happened inside of like 
salvation history that we don't 

765
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,690
see inside of human history. 
And if you're listening online, 

766
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:25,390
I'm like salvation and my arms 
are open, like salvation history

767
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,540
being widespread and I'm also 
hitting lights and stuff and 

768
00:48:30,580 --> 00:48:34,630
human history very small 
compared to what God sees and to

769
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,690
what we see all of. 
That is true small picture. 

770
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:41,970
Absolutely. 
The grand scheme of humanity and

771
00:48:42,220 --> 00:48:45,860
the existence of the world. 
We hope and pray that something 

772
00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:50,940
big that we can't see is at work
and play, and we work as though 

773
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:54,560
what we see is true. 
Yeah, right. 

774
00:48:54,610 --> 00:48:59,640
So we work and Live Today 
knowing that it is. 

775
00:49:00,130 --> 00:49:04,860
It is your created, ordered way 
of being to declare Jesus Lord 

776
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:10,420
and Savior and to wrestle with 
your own sin and to realize the 

777
00:49:10,430 --> 00:49:15,160
need for a Savior and to repent 
and for Jesus's death and 

778
00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:17,840
resurrection to have happened 
inside of human history. 

779
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:22,900
All of the theories of atonement
accounting for in you know, a 

780
00:49:22,910 --> 00:49:26,220
small way what is happening 
between God and humanity in 

781
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:30,240
those moments. 
Like we work because we know 

782
00:49:30,490 --> 00:49:34,480
those things are true and then 
we hope and pray that like God's

783
00:49:34,490 --> 00:49:36,720
just that work in ways that we 
can't see and understand. 

784
00:49:36,830 --> 00:49:42,580
So there is a way of right way 
of reading this, that there are 

785
00:49:42,590 --> 00:49:47,730
some who will hear. 
And the devil, in his desire to 

786
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,140
destroy, will do what he does 
and lie and cheat and steal and 

787
00:49:53,150 --> 00:50:00,050
destroy and choke out life. 
Um, that does happen, yeah. 

788
00:50:01,370 --> 00:50:05,080
But what I again, what I don't 
want people walking away with is

789
00:50:05,090 --> 00:50:09,920
like the sense that, oh, I might
be 1 of that group of people. 

790
00:50:09,970 --> 00:50:12,780
Yeah, right. 
Because as soon as you take that

791
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:17,670
posture, like I, I almost am 
willing to say it, it limit 

792
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,500
like, it, like it eliminates the
possibility that it's you. 

793
00:50:20,810 --> 00:50:22,640
Yeah. 
Like as soon as you have that 

794
00:50:22,650 --> 00:50:25,210
posture toward me, like, I hope 
not. 

795
00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:28,600
I think that's actually the 
posture that is inviting you to 

796
00:50:28,610 --> 00:50:31,240
take and wants you to take. 
Not toward fear, though. 

797
00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:34,370
But. 
Away from fear, you are. 

798
00:50:34,380 --> 00:50:37,170
If you're asking the questions, 
that means you're leaning in. 

799
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,910
Right. 
And that's the secret. 

800
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,430
The secret isn't how to get in. 
Yeah, the secret is like, I'm 

801
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,350
gonna give you the secret, the 
secret key. 

802
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,130
The secret code doesn't like the
Speakeasy during prohibition, 

803
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,590
like where you got like little 
door opens, you gotta say the 

804
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,450
right word and they let you in, 
right. 

805
00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:59,730
It's I read this and I go like 
Jesus says, hey to you've been 

806
00:50:59,740 --> 00:51:03,370
given the secret of the Kingdom.
What's the secret to ask? 

807
00:51:03,380 --> 00:51:07,590
Just keep going to lean. 
In to keep wondering to like 

808
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:11,010
that's the secret. 
The secret is that heart posture

809
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:15,200
actually matters. 
And as soon as you start asking,

810
00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:18,410
that is demonstrating that your 
heart is positioned in the right

811
00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:21,790
direction. 
So take heart. 

812
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:25,250
I guess like, like that's the 
piece that I want people to kind

813
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:27,620
of here. 
And when you when you read about

814
00:51:27,630 --> 00:51:31,590
the good soil, there are people 
at good hearted who hear God's 

815
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,030
word, they cling to it and 
patiently produce a huge 

816
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,810
harvest. 
And it feels like right when I 

817
00:51:36,820 --> 00:51:41,070
think about like clinging to 
God's word clinging to clinging 

818
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,730
to this I I envision that we are
asking questions. 

819
00:51:44,740 --> 00:51:48,030
We are leaning in that it again,
it's this meta parable. 

820
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,250
So Jesus saying if you're 
leaning in your, you're 

821
00:51:51,260 --> 00:51:54,540
probably, you're probably in 
that good soil, you know, you're

822
00:51:54,550 --> 00:51:58,920
probably in a you are ripe for 
growth when you are leaning. 

823
00:51:58,930 --> 00:52:02,800
In yeah, yeah yeah. 
And I like so that language, 

824
00:52:02,810 --> 00:52:08,880
cling to it in my mind, like you
are clinging to something for 

825
00:52:08,890 --> 00:52:15,210
dear life, right? 
You're clinging to something to 

826
00:52:15,220 --> 00:52:17,490
to say, like, to really save 
you. 

827
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:18,790
Yeah. 
And what? 

828
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:19,840
Like what? 
So what does that mean? 

829
00:52:19,850 --> 00:52:24,550
To cling to something is almost 
like that's a recognition that 

830
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,960
you're like, I'm without this 
thing that I'm gonna cling to. 

831
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:29,660
I won't make it. 
Yeah. 

832
00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:31,930
Right. 
So like just dangling off a 

833
00:52:31,940 --> 00:52:36,960
Cliff or you get that last 
minute like Mission Impossible, 

834
00:52:36,970 --> 00:52:40,710
They're dangling out the bottom 
of a train and the person comes 

835
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:43,210
over and grabs the arm as they 
let go. 

836
00:52:43,220 --> 00:52:48,680
Like cling to it, hold on to it.
Other translations, right, who 

837
00:52:48,690 --> 00:52:53,910
hold it fast that I love, that 
cling, that language of clinging

838
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,710
to it. 
It it implies a certain like 

839
00:52:56,720 --> 00:53:03,250
man, like, like I need, I need 
God, you know, and I and and I 

840
00:53:03,260 --> 00:53:08,830
think that is a good a good way 
to a good way to think about it.

841
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:12,250
Yeah. 
Wanna give just as we as we 

842
00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:17,010
start to wrap up, I want to give
the woman a shout out Yeah, I 

843
00:53:17,020 --> 00:53:18,850
want to go back to the beginning
cause I know that we talked 

844
00:53:18,860 --> 00:53:21,010
about this a little bit in our 
sermon prep and you mentioned 

845
00:53:21,020 --> 00:53:22,210
that you alluded a little bit 
on. 

846
00:53:22,220 --> 00:53:24,150
Sunday, briefly. 
I know, I know. 

847
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,730
But I just, I, I, I want to give
these women a shout out. 

848
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:31,190
Yeah, Says less of a question, 
more of just like, hey. 

849
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,350
Yeah, I got preachy at the 
beginning, so you get preachy at

850
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:35,430
the. 
End great. 

851
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:40,540
Yeah, so they mentioned so Mary 
Magdalene Joanna, the wife of 

852
00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:42,780
Chuza Herods business manager. 
I thought that was very 

853
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:46,840
interesting, like just noting 
that OK, so hard, like bad dude 

854
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,410
and and like connected to Herod 
in some way, but like covertly 

855
00:53:52,420 --> 00:53:55,290
doing some work for Jesus. 
I want to know that story, you 

856
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:56,860
know? 
Like, yeah, I wanna chat with 

857
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:58,470
her and find out what's going on
there. 

858
00:53:58,540 --> 00:54:00,110
So and it gets it's crazier, 
right? 

859
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,120
Because so business and this is 
again, this is where the 

860
00:54:03,130 --> 00:54:05,770
language matters, I think. 
So business is a choice in a 

861
00:54:05,780 --> 00:54:07,600
translation. 
So what does it say? 

862
00:54:07,610 --> 00:54:11,010
And it's accurate. 
More literally, it's household 

863
00:54:11,020 --> 00:54:14,220
manager who? 
So here's the thing, the 

864
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:17,100
household manager was the 
business manager, right? 

865
00:54:17,110 --> 00:54:20,380
Like they managed like 
households here we're talking 

866
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:24,480
about. 
So again, different time, but 

867
00:54:24,490 --> 00:54:27,590
we're talking about all the 
people living under the house 

868
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,380
and there are stories where we 
know. 

869
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:36,540
So bakers like people who cook 
chefs, food butlers, wine drink,

870
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:40,960
slaves, servants, literal family
members. 

871
00:54:41,090 --> 00:54:50,550
Like this person had a finger in
every area of this dude's life, 

872
00:54:50,660 --> 00:54:56,080
from his from like, from kids to
spouses, yeah, to servants to 

873
00:54:56,090 --> 00:55:00,350
like, like, ran everything. 
OK, so just think about this. 

874
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:06,770
So this wife of this guy named 
Chuza who bigwig probably 

875
00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:09,700
probably made some probably 
making bank, you know, probably 

876
00:55:09,710 --> 00:55:14,410
doing pretty well for himself 
and and she's utilizing this. 

877
00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:18,140
It's so subversive. 
It's so cool she's utilizing 

878
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:21,780
some of this money to fund 
Jesus's ministry. 

879
00:55:21,790 --> 00:55:23,160
Yeah. 
Like it just makes me like, 

880
00:55:23,170 --> 00:55:26,300
makes me smile. 
Like I'm just like, I love this 

881
00:55:26,310 --> 00:55:27,260
so much. 
Yep. 

882
00:55:27,610 --> 00:55:31,080
Susanna and others. 
I just think it's, it's very 

883
00:55:31,090 --> 00:55:36,400
cool that we get this little 
picture into the in this case, 

884
00:55:36,490 --> 00:55:39,680
it's only women that are 
mentioned that are supporting 

885
00:55:39,690 --> 00:55:42,460
some white in some ways, some 
very through some very 

886
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:46,820
subversive means, supporting 
the, the ministry of Jesus and 

887
00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:49,130
his disciples as they travel 
around. 

888
00:55:49,620 --> 00:55:56,250
Like it's just, it's remarkable.
It's fascinating that in in a 

889
00:55:56,260 --> 00:56:01,230
patriarchal society where where 
these women clearly had some 

890
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:07,560
means, Joanna clearly had some 
means, they were using that 

891
00:56:07,570 --> 00:56:11,500
means to further the the message
of the gospel. 

892
00:56:11,550 --> 00:56:15,580
Like it's, it's just, it's very 
cool. 

893
00:56:15,790 --> 00:56:20,220
Luke often will take moments to 
sort of point out particularly 

894
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:23,430
elevating the status of women. 
And I just think it's worth 

895
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,380
mentioning just as a it just 
fills me with joy. 

896
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:32,720
So especially because in two 
weeks the passage is the 

897
00:56:32,770 --> 00:56:37,690
question being posed to Jesus. 
Your mother and brothers are 

898
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:41,380
standing outside desiring to see
you like, you know, do you want 

899
00:56:41,390 --> 00:56:44,750
to let them in? 
And Jesus responds. 

900
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,930
My mother and brother are those 
who hear the word of God and do 

901
00:56:47,940 --> 00:56:50,470
it. 
And in other in other, in other 

902
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,410
gospels, it's like these are my 
mother and brothers. 

903
00:56:54,560 --> 00:57:01,390
So we're gonna move for like, 
these are women who are in many 

904
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,140
ways like the like the first 
disciples who are called 

905
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:11,940
abandoning what they were doing 
to pursue life with Jesus. 

906
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:18,700
These are women who are 
abandoning what they, by society

907
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:24,130
standards, ought to be doing to 
pursue following Jesus. 

908
00:57:24,940 --> 00:57:29,730
And like that, like it's just, 
it's the call of a disciple. 

909
00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:32,110
Yeah, right. 
And I love it. 

910
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,530
And then we're gonna almost 
double down on that by Jesus 

911
00:57:35,540 --> 00:57:38,270
essentially saying this is my 
family. 

912
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:43,410
Like, you know, yeah, these 
these are those who who, who 

913
00:57:43,420 --> 00:57:49,600
actually live into that that 
name and privilege in some ways 

914
00:57:49,610 --> 00:57:52,450
so. 
Yeah, that's very cool stuff. 

915
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:58,030
Well, as we take this moment to 
just thank you for sticking with

916
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,900
us till the end. 
If you have questions as we go 

917
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:06,100
about the next number of weeks 
or maybe something in relation 

918
00:58:06,110 --> 00:58:10,430
to even what anything we've said
here, we, we touched on some hot

919
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,440
topics a little bit. 
You can send those questions to 

920
00:58:14,570 --> 00:58:17,700
questions at 
courtrightchurch.org. 

921
00:58:17,810 --> 00:58:24,020
And we always take a look at 
those before we before we 

922
00:58:24,090 --> 00:58:26,560
record. 
And also, just to note, we're in

923
00:58:26,570 --> 00:58:31,630
the summer here and it will, we 
are aiming to still keep our 

924
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,350
schedule of getting these out 
every single week. 

925
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,780
But you may see some different 
faces we're gonna be on, you 

926
00:58:37,790 --> 00:58:40,680
know, different schedules. 
I'll be away, Grant will be 

927
00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:42,710
away. 
But we'll have some guest 

928
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:46,930
preachers as well. 
And so it may be, you know, me 

929
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:53,480
interviewing my wife or, or 
Grant interviewing Annabelle 

930
00:58:53,490 --> 00:58:57,090
Edward, who's going to be 
teaching in a number of weeks or

931
00:58:57,100 --> 00:58:59,950
whatever, right? 
So it could be some fun 

932
00:59:00,020 --> 00:59:03,480
opportunities to hear from some 
different folks who have not 

933
00:59:03,490 --> 00:59:06,080
been featured yet, but we're 
looking forward to it anyway. 

934
00:59:06,090 --> 00:59:09,330
Wherever this episode finds you,
we hope you have a great rest of

935
00:59:09,340 --> 00:59:13,620
your week and then just enjoy 
time with family, especially 

936
00:59:13,630 --> 00:59:14,550
over these summer months.