Hey friends, welcome to another episode of our podcast.
Thank you for tuning in. We are wrapping up Luke 6 today.
So on Sunday preached through the final verses of Luke chapter
6, which are the sermon on the plane, the wrap up to the sermon
on the plane. This was also the wrap up to our
community Bible study. So month long for Wednesdays of
people gathering to study the Bible, which is just such a on
the one hand, such a simple thing to do, but so profound.
Like it was an awesome month. The table leaders did fantastic
job. The teaching team did a
fantastic job all the way through.
I loved getting to see this for the first time.
It was a lot of fun and, and just, I, I feel like the, the
flow of these particular passages as well.
There's so much going on with them that it, it lent itself to
just really robust discussion. And, and I'm, yeah, I, I
couldn't, I couldn't be happier. And, and it was just, it was a
lot of fun and, and so glad we were able to do that for, for
the sermon on the plane. Yeah.
It was great. I the thing that I found, I
don't know if you found this the week that you preached during
this, the series or during the, the study was we had like we had
all, all of the, so I sat in on some of the teaching teams, some
of the team, not all of the teaching team prep, but some of
that. And then I had all of my own
personal research and study and prayer and time and reading,
etcetera, all of the things. And then we had the Wednesday
Bible study and then I preached on Sunday and I'm like, there's
still things there's still stuff to cover and ways in which the
like he was new every time. And I love that about the way
Scripture works and the way God uses it is, it is the reason why
we say it is alive and active and speaking and continues, not
because of like, you know, every time you read it, maybe you're
going to glean something new yourself from it.
But because actually, like this is the work that the Holy Spirit
does is unveiling these deep, meaningful, important pieces of
truth that like, you can read it over and over and over again and
still come back to it fresh. And yeah, that that was my
experience of the study anyways, was.
Mine as well. Yeah, yeah.
I was worried I was gonna get to Sunday and be like, well, I have
nothing left to say, which was not the case, especially this
past Sunday when I went too long.
Well, but, and you're getting, you're getting different angles
because you're, you're getting like what, what is, what is your
average congregant kind of wrestling through with the
passage? What are they confused about?
What are, what are we confused about?
Because if we're confused about it, they're certainly going to
be confused about it. Or maybe just glaze over, you
know, and, and you know, it feels like by the end of the
whole process, we're able to, to capture some, but still not all
like. And that's, again, it's, it's
remarkable just the way that that God's word works in that
way. And, and it's a, it's a, it's so
powerful. And, and it was, yeah, it was a
real privilege to be a part of so.
Yeah. So thanks for jumping in on it.
And if you didn't, there will be another chance in the future to
do so. But for now, Luke 6, like I
said, so we're wrapping up. We've got 2.
We put them together, you know, but two mostly related somewhat
different takes on on Jesus wrap up to this sermon.
This is a tree and its fruit. This is house and foundation
fruit being good or bad, houses being hit by storms.
I added in a couple other examples of trees and fruits and
maybe confused the waters by the end.
Did you water your grapefruit? I think it's still in the
sanctuary. I think I accidentally left it
there. Oh.
No. Yeah, it needs some help, but I
had this plant. So I had an aloe plant.
This is the only plant that I should that I should ever
purchase, right? Is like desert plants.
So I had an aloe plant at the beginning of the pandemic that
was in my office. And with how the pandemic hit, I
ended up just making a, a Home Office that I used for both work
meeting with people over Zoom and also recording for Sunday
services and things like that. And in my mind, I just thought,
you know, everybody else's home. So I like people will I don't
want to perpetuate the feeling necessarily of loss.
Like if I'm like, why do I get to be in the church?
They wanna be there, I'm there, they can't be there.
So I'll record from home. And then we're all on an even
playing field kind of thing. But where I'm going with this
story is I left that aloe plant in my office.
For months. No, the entirety of the pandemic
went back like it was like it was there a year and I went back
and that thing was live in its life.
It it was not healthy, but it was not dead.
Secretly your wife was like going in and like somebody must
have been watering it like. This poor plant.
Yeah, I wish I knew that. I wish I knew that.
But no, I think it just did it to desert thing and sucked air
out of water out of the air. But no, my grapefruit tree is
probably probably not going to do that.
So maybe maybe that's let's read.
It's not, it's not a super long. I think it's helpful.
Just as a refresher, what translation do you have there?
This week I'm reading from the ESV, right?
So which is? Not usually the translation that
I use. Yeah, and be curious if you
could explain a little bit of the one word in particular that
I'm interested in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I have had the ESV and NIV pulled up here, but I'll start
if you want to read the final section.
So. So this is from Luke 6, starting
at verse 43. For no good tree bears bad
fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, for each tree
is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from
thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a Bramble Bush.
The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces
good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil.
For out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I tell you?
Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I
will show you what he is like. He is like a man building a
house who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock, and when
a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not
shake it because it had been well built.
But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who
built the house on the ground without a foundation.
When the stream broke against it immediately fell, and the ruin
of that house was great. Not in a good way.
Grades. Not in a good way, no.
I think literally it says and great was its ruin, which is
just, you know, very dramatic. It is, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So maybe maybe this won't take long at least maybe not is I am
curious like you, you chose the NIV or sorry the ESV versus the
NIV which we typically will preach from and and you said it
was really centred around a particular word.
So what was that for you? Yeah, for sure.
So, you know, like, I think it's worth saying that, you know, we
were talking about this a little bit off camera, but like one of
one of my, you know, one of my hang ups with the SUV.
I think in in many ways it's it's very literal translation
which may. Can be good.
Yeah, I like it for preaching for that reason.
It's clunky to read. Clunky.
So if you're looking for a readable translation, I don't
think this is it. Like the NIV reads better, the
NLT reads better. Both translations that I have
and will continue to preach from, I read, have always
through my entire life, read most from the NIV and then I'll
switch for a reason or a purpose, and then I find myself
going back to the NIV. So whether that's just habit and
that's what I'm used to and what I'm comfortable with, that's to
be discussed. But certainly this is not the
the the best readers version. What I would say the one word,
though, that I really wanted to, um, yeah, be it hammer home or
be crystal clear on is where Jesus says out of the treasure
of a person's heart. Good treasure.
Evil treasure. Uh huh.
Yeah. So so in verse 45, the good
person out of the good treasure of their heart produces good.
And you have the NIV up there. So can you read that verse?
There, so it says, a good man brings good things out of the
good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings out brings
evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart.
So right off the hop, obviously we're not talking about men
exclusively here. This is gendered language, but
it's it's referring to all of humanity.
So that's one. But mainly the difference that I
wanted to tease out is exactly what's lacking in the NIV.
So the the good stored up in his heart and this language around
treasure which is again like this is literal translation
thesaurus treasury. It does mean storehouse so I get
why they go stored up but. It's inference rather than.
Yeah, yeah. What's a more literal
translation for For me, the main point that I was making at this
moment in the sermon was the difference between just
thinking, oh, if I input enough good into my life, then good
will flow out. And like, that might be true to
some degree. Like you are the what you
consume in forms, shapes, and does ultimately control even who
you are and who you become and what you output.
There is truth to that. But that's not what Jesus is
saying here. He's not saying do enough good,
or, you know, be around enough good or input enough good so
that you can then do good or be good or become good.
Yes. He's not creating this structure
whereby we input what we need so that we can output what is good.
We input what is bad and therefore we output what is bad.
What he's saying is what you treasure in your heart.
And on Wednesday, on Sunday a little bit, I talked about that
the heart in Jesus Day is not just like the thump, thump organ
in your chest. This is your like the core of
all of how you make decisions. It is your being.
Your will centred, your will. Yeah, your will, your.
Desires, your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings, all of
it is is described as heart. So Jesus is saying here what
your heart treasures will determine how you live your life
that output and. We which makes it a little less
about like Doo Doo Doo. Exactly.
Right, because it, it's saying like, hey, whatever, whatever,
you know, like I and I do like the, the, the word abundance
there for, for out of the abundance of the heart, the over
whatever spills out of your heart, the treasure there, it'll
be good or evil because it's what your heart is, is full of,
because of what you filled it with.
In some ways, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And the, yeah, the piece that I really wanted to avoid was just
somebody walking away thinking, OK, if I if I store up enough
good, hmm, then I will be good. You know, it's this isn't.
Yeah, I don't know. You know those old, old school
video games where you're like top down looking like we all
played them instead of like doing computer like typing
classes and stuff where you're just like you mine for stuff.
Then you can build this and then you can build that and then you
sell this and the money and like my world conquers your world.
What was that? You know that doesn't.
Matter command and. That's the one I'm thinking of.
I think it's like is this isn't like a matter of of going around
collecting enough good, hmm and hiding it away so that you can,
you know, eventually have enough good to buy your way into the
Kingdom kinda. And like that's a really simple,
you know, reading of it. It's also very specific reading
of it, but I just in my preaching, I wanted to lean us
as far away from that as possible.
Yeah. And also capture what I think
isn't just. So what this is also not is an
ascent of knowledge, right? It's not just intellectual
ascent toward goodness. It's not if I, you know, if I
think good thoughts, if I learn what is right and true and good
and noble and lovely, then I will become that is right and
true and good and noble and lovely.
Like I think if, if our denomination actually, so, you
know, we're part of the Presbyterian Church in Canada.
We say like we're small P We have people from all over the
Christian world and we have people coming in who have no
Christian experience. So fantastic.
That's the way it should be. But, you know, I think if there
is a cultural sin, if I could put it that way, of our
denomination historically, it's like an intellectual, spiritual,
intellectual arrogance. Yeah.
That says to know something is to be transformed by it.
And we just, we know, we by experience that to know
something in your head does not mean that it's gotten into your
heart. And to know it and to know that
it's right and good and true is not also to treasure it right.
To treasure it is to pursue it, is to desire it is to allow it
to shape your wants and your desires and your feelings, your
emotions, the core centre of who you are, and to want for it
above other things. It is is treasuring life inside
the Kingdom and Jesus and his love and who he is and who he's
making you to be. And that's far more compelling
to me than know the right thing, become the right person.
And like not knowledge can be powerful.
Knowledge is is good. It's not, it's not dismissing
that, but it is it is an incomplete picture of what Jesus
is inviting us into here. And and you, you cannot attain,
in some ways I think Jesus would be saying here, you cannot
attain the good life on that alone.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nor, nor is that gonna be
the starting point for everybody.
Hmm. Right.
So I, I worked at a camp for a number of years and the camp
doesn't matter, but they had a slogan and the desire for all
the staff. I think it was, it was something
like knowing, being, doing. And this idea was like, you
know, and then you be and then you do.
And I go for so many of us, that's backwards.
Hmm, right. I need to do my way into knowing
sometimes. Most times, in fact.
Yeah. Right, we just to know something
does not necessarily mean that you will become something does
not necessarily mean that you will do something.
It might for some people be that that order.
So Jesus isn't saying know something first, because what
does he say? He says come follow me, come be
with me and watch. And in the being with in the in
the doing, in fact, the disciples begin to know and
discover who Jesus is. And they're called into greater
doing and greater being, greater becoming.
They change isn't shapes who they are.
But that first call is not hey, sit down and let me tell you who
I am, and then you'll want to follow me.
And in fact, he seems to avoid that quite often.
Jesus, you know, he's, he's very, very conservative in his,
you know, in his revealing of, of all the specifics and details
of who he is and, and why God the Father has him doing what
he's doing. And, and so I think that's a
good, that, that's a good way to think about that is that Jesus
doesn't come in and just unload a bunch of information like, you
know, which is, you know, I think a good, a good seminary
experience for a pastor should not just be unloading a bunch of
information. It there should be a a spiritual
formation components to it. There should be a hey, if you,
if you can learn all of this information and still be a
rotten bastard, you know, like. Well, and, and listen, like I, I
know people who came out of seminary with no faith, right?
So, so technically knew all of the things and walked away with
less, less of a life giving alive faith in Jesus than when
they started. And that's a, that's a, you
know, that's a sad thing for for me to reflect on now.
So, yeah. So, OK, so just to answer your
question, to loop back around ESV for this week, largely
because I could have done the work to get us from Storehouse
to treasure. But I do find that sometimes
that works and sometimes that's interesting and you can take
people along for that ride. And sometimes I just wanna get
there. Yep, faster.
That makes. And if I can use a different
translation to do that, then I'll do that.
Yeah, but that was the main reason.
We were talking about one day we'll do a little bit of a, you
know, separate podcast about topics like Bible translations
and, and that could be a lot of fun.
Cause even, you know, when we look at our community Bible
study, we used the NRSV for that and, and our, and the new
Revised standard version that's safer.
Yeah. Is that's considered like the
classic inductive Bible study. That's what you use when you do
that kind of work. It's it's It's considered the
academic English translation. So if you're not working in
Greek or Hebrew, the expectation in many academic settings is
that you use NRSV. So much so can I like personal
grape here for a second and I've told you this story.
I think when I was in undergrad I lost, I think it was like a
full letter grade on a paper because I used the NIV and not
the NRS. File.
Unbelievable. Yeah.
Not the content of the paper. This was like theology class and
you know my profits. Like you should have known that
the NIV is not an academic translation and RSV is the only
acceptable academic translation. I was like, well you're the Prof
dude. So if I didn't know something, I
didn't say that I was not, I was not that bold in undergrad.
But yeah, I still, I still Remember, Remember that just to
to this day, this was a this is a, this is a brilliant, loving
and and also very specific theology professor who I had
during my undergrad who had made the migration, I think he had
made the migration from evangelical all the way to
Catholic. Oh, wow.
OK. Yeah.
It was kind of his faith. So really fascinating deep
spiritual journey. And so, you know, those are
people who you just. Yeah.
OK, I'll listen and figure it out.
I'll do better next time. But it would be a lot of fun to
kind of talk through like, why is that the case?
And does that mean these particular, these other
translations are, are lesser, you know, and if you open up, if
you ever use like the Bible app, like on your phone or tablet or
whatever, when you pull it up here, I could, you know, I
could, we'd be here for an hour trying to count all these like,
it's wild, right? And so like, what's what's going
on there? Be fun to explore that and, and,
and talk through, you know, you know, even just simply to say
like sometimes it's just different tools in the belt,
right, That there are strengths and weaknesses to to certain
translations, because translating from Greek and
Hebrew and Aramaic is difficult. Yep.
Yeah, yeah, and absolutely. So I think a tool tool and a
tool belt is exactly the reason why I flipped this week and
we'll see where I go for next Sunday.
I think we're we're back in NIV next Sunday, so.
Great. All right, so why don't we talk
a little bit about this latter section on on this, this little
parable, this little metaphor that Jesus uses of Jesus sort of
summarizing his teachings. Everyone who hears my words and
does them. So everyone who I want to start,
I missed the first step. Everyone who comes to me, here's
my words and does them. I will show you what he's like.
He is like a man building a house who dug deep and laid the
foundation on the rock. I think there's some questions
that that are worth asking about the like The Who and the what
of, of the metaphor, right? Because it can be a little
unclear sometimes, you know, and, and so when we look at the
foundation, the foundation is, is what everything else is built
upon, right? So it is, it is crucial and it
is the reason why this house, when the floods arise, do does
not get swept away and why the other house does get swept away.
So what is precisely the foundation?
Yeah. So there, there's, there's I
think there's probably a couple different ways of, of reading
this or understanding it. I think the easy so like the
Sunday school answer is like, well, Jesus is the foundation.
Yeah. But if we look, there's, there's
a couple different comparisons that I think are are worth
pointing out there a couple of differences in the comparison.
So in 48 he is like a man building a house who dug deep
and laid the foundation on the rock.
OK. And then if we jump down in 40,
the latter part of 49, like a man who built a house on the
ground without a foundation. Hmm.
So there's multiple things happening.
Hmm. So there's no foundation and
there's so there's a found in the in the good house or what
we're assuming at this point, good house, right?
The Wise builder in In other iterations of this story, the
wise builder builds. There's a foundation on a rock
and the person, the second person is, there's no foundation
and it's not on the rock, it's on the ground.
So there's multiple differences, yeah.
So, uh, you know, I think in, in part we can, we can extend that
and think through Jesus elsewhere is called cornerstone,
the cornerstone that referred to as the cornerstone in the New
Testament. And so is, is Jesus the
cornerstone of the foundation? Is he the rock?
Is he the foundation? I think for my just the simple
reading of this is, you know, I I think of Jesus life inside the
Kingdom because we haven't gone deep down this.
It's not a rabbit trail, but this direction.
Yet you can't talk about Jesus without talking about the
Kingdom of God, and you can't talk about the Kingdom of God
without talking about Jesus. So much so that it's not really
even correct to talk about Jesus and the Kingdom.
Jesus is the Kingdom. Right.
Yeah, they're inseparable. Jesus, like his arrival is the
kingdom's arrival, His teaching is the Kingdom, his death, his
resurrection. This is the Kingdom of God
breaking into the world. So to say, you know, Jesus and
Kingdom as separate is to miss a lot of what's going on.
So I think you know the rock Jesus, Kingdom of God, this is
to have their foundation rooted or resting where it ought to
rest. A foundation ought to rest on
the rock. I mean, I understand that you
can dig down past the frost line, pour concrete, make our
own rocks. Like understand that much like
my deck that I built an extension on my deck and like
every day for a few days after I was like, I just went out with
my big 6 foot level and I was like, is it sunk yet?
Like did I go deep enough and is it solid?
So I think rock is Jesus, its Kingdom.
It is the right place for a foundation and the right place
for a foundation we believe is is is squarely Kingdom of God,
Jesus, the builders building a foundation.
So Jesus can't be the foundation like the builder places the
foundation. I know all metaphors fall apart
at some point and fail, but I think Jesus has already
described what the foundation is.
Then if we back up, so everyone who comes to me, everyone who
hears my words, everyone who does them.
So just like it's, you know, just like we can't talk about
Jesus as separate from the Kingdom or the the Kingdom as
existing without Jesus separate from Jesus, the foundation here
can't be, well, it's just good works, right?
It's just doing the things that Jesus says.
You've heard all. Now go and do and and.
That's And that's your foundation?
Yeah. No, the foundation is first
coming to Jesus. Abiding.
Abiding, being with Jesus, allowing him to transform who
you are. Right.
Hearing the words of Jesus again.
Hear the the. I think the language points us
in a different direction than simply like, oh, I heard what
you said. No, this is deep.
Listening, absorbing. I've heard.
OK, I hear you. Yeah, I hear you.
Yeah, I'm gonna. Change.
I was hearing you before, now I hear you.
Like there's a different layer. Yeah, yeah.
So come to Jesus, abide, rest, be with Jesus, hear him, really
hear him, Allow his words, allow his teaching, allow who he is to
transform your heart and your mind.
Your the the core of who you are, all of it and then live out
of the overflow of who that who you are becoming right of of
that that relationship. So that's the foundation and
that's the foundation being placed on a rock on Jesus
squarely inside the Kingdom. So again, like I said, all
metaphors fall apart and you can stretch this one, I'm sure, to
breaking. But I think really what Jesus is
saying is it's the it's the he's reminding the disciples of that
first call. Come follow me and I will teach
you to fish for people, right? Come follow me.
I'm not gonna make you a tax collector of people, but like,
come follow me, learn from me. Watch.
How so? Eugene Peterson's translation of
that, the passage in Matthew where Jesus has come to me.
All you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest.
Eugene Peterson translates that. Hey, if you're tired, if you're
worn out, burned out on religion, come to me.
Get away with me. He says, Watch how I do it.
I won't lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you.
Learn the unforced rhythms of grace and you will learn to live
freely and lightly. So that's that's the invitation
of Jesus. Come get away with me.
Watch how I do it. You're going to learn to live
like me. You're going to learn to live
freely and lightly. He's I'm not gonna lay anything
heavy or ill fitting. But there will be things for you
to do. There will be life for you to
live. Yeah, but it will fit.
It will be well fitting. Like hand in glove.
Like a baseball glove that's been well worn, soaked in hot
water and then tied around a baseball overnight and used for
a couple of years. Like is that what you do is?
Yeah, that's how you do it, you know, Yeah.
You soak in hot water, you put it around like a softball or
something a bit bigger and then tie it up real tight.
And then, Yep, back when you had like 4 poster beds with like the
ball on the top that you put tie it around the the, the bedpost
in. So it's cool.
Use that yeah, but this is the invitation of Jesus is to to
life lived. That is well fitting and I think
that's really when you start OK, what is rock with his
foundation? Where do they meet?
What is like, how do you just put that?
That's what Jesus is talking about here is that invitation.
So I could imagine that there are different, you know, folks
at different places in their spiritual formation, some who,
for better or worse, they, they just, they just wanna do, they
just like, maybe maybe that's their best.
They just like to serve. They just like to, you know,
whether it's in their church or whether it's, you know, they can
very clearly see these are the actionable things that Jesus has
called me to do. I can do that.
I've got money, I can give, I've got, I've got time, I can, I can
serve, I can do all these different things.
And that's what Jesus calls me to do.
Like so you got someone who's who's more in that, but they
really are wrestling with with sort of the abiding piece of it
to just be with Jesus, to hear Jesus right.
And then you have others who are maybe a little bit on this.
They're more like, they're a little bit more contemplative.
They they like to, you know, they like to journal, they like
to write, but they struggle on the action piece.
How do we and I, I don't always like the word balance because
it's it's it balances A myth. And also sometimes it's balance
isn't the thing that we're, that we want here, but how do we, how
do we maybe correct? Cause I highly doubt any of us
are, are like perfectly aligned in all these areas like that,
that I, I highly doubt that, that there's anyone in our
church who have found the, the perfect regimen of, of abiding,
listening, being and doing right.
So how do we, how do we think about that?
How do we approach that? Uh, yeah.
This, this, I think this is a, I think if we could solve this
question, you could maybe package it.
And anyways, I, so I think, I think there are two angles of
approach here. The first is just to say that
each of us is going to have a bent toward one or the other,
right? Like.
Like Mary and Martha with Jesus. Absolutely right.
Yeah. So, so to think about it and
you're not suggesting this, I know you're not suggesting this.
To think about it though as purely an individual pursuit
would be, I think to fail right off the hop.
So we just need to realize like the Christian life is a life of
and in community. Yeah, so you need to find your
place into a community. And there are like we got, we
got guys who come on Thursday and they, there's a shop,
there's a workshop in this building.
They're like there's a table saw, there's a drill press.
Yeah, shouldn't give away all these secrets, but we have guys
who come and they are building, they are fixing, they are
maintaining, They are that like and the the joy that there is in
doing those things is a is a wonderful gift.
Yeah, I think to each other, to the church, to our community, it
is amazing. And you know that may that may
continue forever and it may not. It may have a season.
I don't know, You know, Punch, those guys are getting their
knees replaced. Yeah.
They're still here. Like faithfully working.
Yeah. And I genuinely believe it's
because they love doing it and they love the community of it
and the conversation. And, you know, I should mention
there are also, there are other groups of people in the building
at the same time doing various things around.
So we have a lot of, we have a lot of people who love to jump
in and. Grateful for those guys that
like they are the, they are the doers in many ways, absolutely.
And we and we need them. Yeah, but but not everybody is
gonna find that outpouring, um, life giving to the same degree
as as this current group of guys.
For those listening just on podcast, I'm raising.
My hand. Is yeah, because that's me.
Right. Yeah.
So, you know, like I think that's the best place to begin
with. This is just to say that at the
same time as we have that group going on, there have also been
groups of people putting together stations like prayer
stations and prayer rooms and thinking and praying through how
we can encourage people into silence and solitude and
contemplative prayer. And especially around Easter and
Christmas and at moments where where we want to encourage
people in that direction. Like we have people who are
very, very gifted in doing that. I say doing, but in leading that
charge as well. And as a church, I'm like, we
need all of us. So I think, you know, be OK with
who God has created you to be and be OK that you'll probably
have a bent toward one or the other.
But I, you know, I think at the same time, like if you're doing
to exhaustion and you're just burnt out and you're starting to
become bitter and you're like, I'm the only one, Like it's the
same people all the time. And why is it me?
And like, I'd really rather like listen to that as well and don't
let that kind of creep in the to to the person though.
Let me really answer your question to the person who wants
to try to shift where they're at.
A I think we like the doing. We like just easy steps because
they're like, I can do those. Very concrete.
ABC, I can do that. A + B = C that's a math I can do
and we like that. So I think one of the things
that I've tried to do and I don't know, I know where I
picked. I friend of mine uses this
language. I don't know where he picked it
up, but like, gamify some of the things that you want to do.
Yeah. So if you've got a, if you got a
bent toward doing things, then then schedule like make the
silence and the solitude and the contemplation, like gamify it a
little bit, right? You know, even just write
yourself A to do list. There there are.
I do think that human beings are naturally wired to to need
silence and solitude, but I think we at the same time are
bent away from it. We we shy away from it.
There's a. We don't need to go into all the
reasons why, but the I, I do think that if, if you are prone
to doing, then use that strength and kind of schedule some of the
being and sitting and it's going to be awkward at 1st and it's
gonna be hard, but schedule it in.
I could imagine, I could imagine for some folks it, it could
feel, it could feel like a, a just a rote sort of tradition.
If you if you schedule it. However I think it's there's
actually still wisdom in it, right?
Because if, if you are, if you, for those of you who are wired
that way, you may just need that to actually carve out the time,
right? And there's always going to be a
possibility that it, that it becomes just a just another
thing you're ticking off on your To Do List, but hopefully not,
you know, like, do you have, do you have any thoughts on how to
avoid that like? Well, I like, I think be OK with
it just being something that you take off on your box to begin
with. Like I think that's actually, I
think that's where where the downfall is, is that we have
these defeater ideas. I think that's a Tim Keller
line, like defeater ideas. He would always preach sermons.
He's like, what are the defeater ideas that people believe that
just make it impossible for them to believe what I am going to
say? What the Bible is preaching like
what? So it's just like, what are the
preconceived notions that we have that we walk in and just
like instantly done. I don't like I'm not going to
believe that because of this defeat or belief over here.
I think the defeater belief on this is that it's bad to
schedule it and it's bad for it to feel rote.
OK. Because it might need to fuel
route to begin with. Hmm.
Like it's, it's every time I pray, like I don't, I don't hear
audibly the voice of God every time I pray.
In fact, far fewer times than I actually pray, like less than
the less than less than average or less, less than the middle
right, fewer than fewer than half.
So again, different podcast, how do you hear from God if it's not
like God speaking to you audibly?
Like what are the various ways God is speaking to you And and
what are the various ways God speaking to to us?
To me for sure, different podcast.
But I think that the defeater belief is that you need to have
this like grand spiritual experience every time you sit
down to like, well, if I'm going to carve out time and if I'm
going to sit down, if I'm going to be silent, then it has to be
this big thing. And it's not always that like
there is a discipline that you need to learn.
I think that the the doing of it is showing up.
What we can't control is how God's gonna move in that in that
moment or in that during that time.
So it's OK that it sometimes feels wrote and and I don't want
to say meaningless, but that it feels like you didn't accomplish
the thing that you were like, hoping to accomplish.
Because it's not often about accomplishing not right.
It's and. And that's maybe where our.
Are are sort of a productivity focused world can can struggle,
right, But but I guess if we think about it like this is like
a maybe slightly silly, but like brushing my teeth twice a day is
a is a rote ritual that I I do blind blindly.
It's just it's, you know, it's just what you do because it's
good for your teeth. I don't usually get anything out
of that experience. I suppose my teeth do, but but
it is something that that is is good to do.
It is right to do. I highly encourage it.
And you're healthier for it, Yeah, Whether you whether you
like it or not. I had a dental pick up and I had
no cavities and they said, oh, looks like it looks like you've
been taking care of your teeth. And I was like.
Ohhhhh, great, someone noticed, but but like you're not wrong,
you're not wrong. And listen like they're gonna be
moments where God does show up and where it is that like earth
shattering ground out from under your feet kind of moment or
where you recognize now this is different.
There's something about this. It's a wholly experience and
there are going to be moments where you do it.
Hmm. I think learning the rhythm and
habit of it, yeah. Is it's OK that we're talking
about doing the thing in order to be with Jesus.
Like, your schedule needs to change, and that's OK, but it's
not going to change unless you change it.
You won't magically have time to spend with Jesus.
It won't happen. Like, nobody drifts accidentally
into progress. Yeah.
And so you have to carve out time.
You have to actually do the thing.
You have to show up in order to make time and space for it.
Yeah. So at that point, what I start
to say to people is, and we've talked about this a little bit
on early iterations of the podcast, like early episodes,
but find a different space. Don't sit in your normal chair,
like, but choose a spot and do a thing like I make coffee.
Like that's kind of what I try to do.
I make coffee in the morning and there's part of me that wrestles
and like, well, shouldn't I read my Bible before I make coffee?
But no, like I'm prepping like there's a, there's a I slowed
down kind of preparation that happens.
It's a ritual. It's a good in a good.
Way in the best, yeah, best form of that word, like in the best
meaning of it. So yeah, that's OK.
It's OK for it to be that and OK if you need to flip the other
way if you are, if you're prone to to spending a whole lot of
time reflecting and thinking. Maybe like you're in your head
too much. I think that's there are there
are some folks I know that that are that they can get in their
head too much where where they are are deep thinkers and it can
be beautiful. It can be like a a wonder.
We need deep thinkers. We need good thinkers, but.
To them I remind them of like the desert mothers and fathers
who early monastics would withdraw from society into the
literal desert. One of my favorite is a vigorous
of Pontus who was like, well, Jesus went to the desert to
fight the devil, so so will I and that's what we did.
So at any rate, the think about how much wisdom would have been
lost if they went off into the desert and never, never
returned, never wrote, never communicated, never met with if,
if they left and kept leaving until they died, right.
Like, and, and maybe that happened for some, maybe, like
maybe there's a ton of lost wisdom out there, but I, I just
like, think about how much the church over centuries would have
lost had that not been noise. This is a retreat with a purpose
of return. Hmm.
And that's like a rhythm. That's a rhythm we need to learn
in our, in our lives. So what, like, is there an
outlet where you are processing and sharing and discerning on
what you're hearing? Because the other thing that
happens is you go so far sideways, you're like, well, not
sure you're hearing from God anymore.
Well, and there's probably some, if you look at church history,
there are some very out there, um, kind of monastic where they
had these, these transcendent experiences that one could only
describe as bizarre, you know? Well, most of them are nastics
did. Yeah, yeah.
But what I appreciate about about church community is that
we do get to kind of stretch each other a little bit, right?
And, and there is opportunity, you know, there is opportunity
for all of the things that we're talking about, right, where
there are opportunities to serve and to do and, and in meaningful
ways that are yeah, sure. Like the, our, our team, that's,
they return on Thursdays. They are helping with the, the,
you know, they are stewarding our, our facility and property
well, right. There are others that are
serving on the front lines in our, on our food cupboard, in
the garden and, and others who are, who are helping, you know,
make coffee on Sundays and whatnot.
And then there are others who are in yeah, who are leading
groups and in groups and, and experiencing reading scripture,
learning, growing. They're even folks I know who
have led some studies over the years that are very like, almost
like academic, right? And like, I know for some people
that's been a huge benefit. Like that's been a real like I
learned so much and I'm and I'm really thinking about it and,
and it's been really formative for me and like that, that's
fantastic, right? And, and, and so like, I love
the way in which we can learn from each other and that we have
these rhythms and, and even the rhythm of, of Sunday, right?
That that we, we are, we are gathered and then we are
scattered, right? That in and of itself is it is a
microcosm of what we are ultimately called to do as
followers of Jesus. So I think just to return to
your question, the and I was flipping around looking for
something else that is gone now. But I do think that one of the
practical things that people can do if they're listening, if
they've listened to the end, like here's the practical next
step for you. I think there there is a
argument to be made that you sit down, look at your schedule,
look at your energy output, look at the time output, look at how
you are spending your life and compare it to what Jesus invites
us to. Come to me, be with me, hear my
words. Like really hear them.
And then go and live differently because of it.
Go and put them into practice. So can you see those movements
in the course of not like a year, but like each day?
Hmm. And can you see them in the
course of a week? And this is where I really think
like journaling your life will change your life because I just
think that so many of us, we don't, we don't actually think
about the way in which we spend our time.
I remember like screen time first came out and everyone is
like, that's not true. Surely that's not true.
Please let that not be true. And then slowly what we've found
is like, Oh yeah, no, that's true 100%.
Like we all spend hours on it, like on our phones, on our
tablets, right? Like this is like, so I just,
that was a mirror. That was a mirror moment where
for so many people, like your phone became this mirror.
You're like, ohhhhh, I didn't realize that.
And that's what a journal does, but in a much healthier way.
Yeah, it feels very bold that, but in this case, Apple, I'm
sure Android has an equivalent. It feels bold that they would
even do that. It feels counterproductive.
It feels like it feels like they would not want you to to reflect
on that. No, exactly, exactly.
Let's keep this 1A secret. But I think some of some of the
best OHS, just some of the best daily rituals.
And like the daily examine from Ignatius of Loyola, his daily
examine is just a really clean, simple way of thinking through
your day at the end of it and accounting for things throughout
the day. And like, I just wonder if you
break it down into those three things, like how did I, and I do
like John Mark Comer's language here, how did I spend time?
How was I with Jesus? How did I spend time with Jesus?
How am I becoming like Jesus? And how am I doing the things
that He did and challenges me to do?
Hmm. And can I see those things
daily? Not in massive ways, but in
slow, steadied day by day, morning and evening.
How do I see these these things shape in my life?
I think that's that's a a good point to drive home is that
it's, it's very small, very incremental little things, you
know, like I, I think that holiness and and our growth or
to use a very Christian word, set our sanctification process.
It's it is. It is slow.
I think by design, you know that sometimes there are are pivotal
moments of radical conversion toward a new way, a new way of
life. But in general, the the, the
life change happens very gradually, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, the one thing we can keep doing is showing up.
Hmm. Right.
And just one foot after the next, what's the next faithful
step? Hmm.
That's another just a good, like, don't think 10 steps down
the road, right? Like, what's the next faithful
step? Yeah.
And there's grace abundant when we fail like this is my like I'm
an all or nothing kind of person.
I'm like, listen, like this week and every single day and then
the next week, you're like, I missed one day.
So what's the point? Like don't get sucked into that.
Just day by day Grace and grace abundant.
So which I, you know, I think is a great place to and for today.
It's, it's been fantastic to go through this.
You know, Luke 6 has been a lot of weeks, but it's been so good
to just go through every little bit of, of this significant
teaching that Jesus gives us and to, to learn how to take it all
in. And, and I hope that we can
continue continue to do that and to to do exactly what Jesus has
to do here, which is to to come to him deers words and
ultimately to do them.