Hey, friend, welcome to another episode of the podcast.
And this is my first time introducing it as the Sunday sit
down. So this is a great a great
chance for us to continue the conversation.
Our hope is that you continue the conversation beyond Sunday.
So as Justin has said, it's not Sunday, but we're sitting down
and we hope that you're having a good week and did get a little
bit of a chance to rest and enjoyed worship, worship
together in community, all of it.
But let me just restate something that we been saying
from the very beginning of this podcast, which is that our
conversation, while we understand, like on occasion, we
go deeper into pieces of the text that we didn't get to
include in the sermon. There is information certainly
that we want to share in this conversation with you around the
passage of this past Sunday, always the previous Sunday that
was preached on. Our hope is that we also give
you some questions that you yourself can wrestle with, and
that's why some of our questions are more application or even
like personal kind of by nature. So we really want you to find
yourself in to these conversations, not just
passively listening, but by taking it and using this to have
some further conversation yourself.
So we hope that it does encourage you and that it does
challenge you to have your own conversations.
But we're jumping into a conversation around Luke 9
versus 37 to like about 44, which is this great story.
Jesus and his disciples descending the mountain and
Jesus and the disciples immediately being confronted by
a man whose son is possessed by a demon.
He's demanding. He's begging Jesus to heal his
son. The disciples can't do it.
There's this great moment of healing and also teaching.
Jesus rebukes. He says some harsh things about
those present. So like a lot to work through
for sure in a short amount of time, but we have a couple of
questions that we really hope, like I said, encourage you to go
a little bit deeper in your own faith and with your own small
communities. One of the things that struck me
as we went into this week and, and did some, you know, did some
sermon prep as we often do, is that like this was so real time.
This was our, the kind of our Sunday after Labour Day, which
is often like everyone's back from summer and all that kind of
stuff. And so it felt like, man, this
is like a bit of a hard passage, like everyone's coming back.
Yeah. But in some ways, it was
actually just right. Yeah.
Like because you, you know, you're describing, you know, the
the mountaintop experience of the transfiguration and then the
coming down from the mountain into reality, into real life,
which is exactly what people are doing.
You know, if people have been away, if people have been on
vacation, if people have been just in different rhythms and
routines of life, they are now likely settling into getting
their kids to school and making lunches.
And I, I'm in that routine. And yeah, so are you.
Yeah. Trying to settle into it, right?
Yeah, yeah. I think the thing that I want
people hearing and so I think it's worth researching today is
that like we we tend to and I positioned the whole, you know,
descent down the mountain as that sort of crash down the
mountain that you know immediately the the pressure of
Jesus vocation, who he is, what he has been called to do.
His mission is like immediately put back on his shoulders like
it's, it's not absent up the mountain, but it's, you really
get like God's the, you know, so God the Father, this voice from
heaven, he's the primary actor in that instance.
Like Jesus isn't being demanded of by people around him.
So I think that's what I mean by, you know, like the mail to
the the pressure of it is just immediately back on his
shoulders when he comes down the mountain.
So framed it that way. The disciples come down the
mountain and immediately the pressure of being a disciple is
back on them as well. So they're kind of in the
clouds, Jesus and Moses and Elijah, God the Father voice
from heaven. And again, they're they're Peter
Blessum. He tries to act and, you know,
misses the misses the boat a little bit.
But, you know, they're, again, they're by and large, they're
witnessing this happen and they're getting to experience
that. They're going to see it.
But not a lot is being demanded of them other than their
presence. Like, they're there and then
they come down the mountain and who, you know, demands of being
a disciple. Dad's like, hey, ask the
disciples. And they couldn't do it.
So what's that about? But at the end of the sermon,
what I really tried to turn us toward is that it's not for
Jesus and for the Kingdom. It's not a crash down the
mountain as in this like failure or trial or suffering or like
just low, sort of emotional depressed down kind of moment.
It's a very intentional bringing of the presence of the God,
bringing of the presence of God down the mountain, bringing of
the Kingdom down the mountain to continue doing the Kingdom
thing. So for Jesus, it's this like
powerful move, not in any type of like coercive way, but in
this or revealed fully still more of it, right?
And I think that's the thing that I would say to myself and
to us, it can like our return can feel kind of like this
crash. The challenge is to allow Jesus
to do what he did there in our own lives.
Which is like the everyday. Monday, which is to yeah, it's
to take it exactly to take the Kingdom into the everyday
mundane stuff and really like, you know, we talk even that word
mundane, like so we talk about we talk about what is holy and
what is mundane. We talk about what is sacred and
what is secular, but that that that distinction doesn't exist
for Jesus. We didn't talk about this part
like in preparation for the podcast, but like that
distinction doesn't exist inside of Jesus.
You know, worldview. Everything is being redeemed by
the Kingdom. Yeah.
And everything is being redeemed by Jesus.
Death and resurrection and, and so you know, like for Jesus,
it's not, hey, you know, I've got office hours and you know,
my specific like healing of demons are Thursdays at like
9:00 to 11:00, right? Like it's not that type of
there's no distinction. So the, you know, we, we don't
talk enough about how we talk about Jesus bringing the
Kingdom. We don't actually probably talk
enough about Jesus being the Kingdom.
Yeah. So the Kingdom coming isn't
because Jesus is like lobbing little Kingdom grenades
everywhere as he goes. They're like, I pictured those,
like seed bombs, like those rogue gardeners.
Yeah, this is what's happened. I didn't know a thing about
gardening until I met my wife. And now I'm just like, I've got
all these random pieces of knowledge of very bizarre rogue
like militia gardeners who run around the city dropping little
like seed bombs into over like overly sodded grass, like Mono
cropped like beautifully looked. Like the rogue rogue gardeners?
They're rogue gardeners. There are people who go around
with like a little like seed bombs and like drop them places
and just to grow flowers, like just to grow native flowers.
That's like beautiful in its own little, like, subversive.
Way you know it's great. I got to plant some.
Flowers on the one hand I go, hey, that's like, that's a great
image. Jesus isn't just like lobbing
these Kingdom grenades. He's he's his presence is the
Kingdom come. And he like there's no
distinction between Jesus and Kingdom.
Yeah. So we like to like, we like, we
like to divide out. I think our life and, and we
talk about what is sacred and what is secular.
We talk about what you know is, is faith.
I think in some ways we struggle with this like intense
privatization of faith that's happened in Canada.
Ohe yeah. You know, certainly since like
the first Prime Minister Trudeau, who who really had this
strong line of like, and I'm not, I'm going to misquote him,
but he said that the state has no business in the bedroom of
the nation, right. And because there's this intense
privatization at that point of like human sexuality, but we've
done this, this back off like real privatization of faith.
And so then we get to compartmentalize and go my
church life, my faith life is over here and it's that's
sacred, wonderful love it very different from my work life over
here. I have to operate in this
culture. So I got to do the things of the
culture in order to just to succeed.
And so you just kind of sacrifice this, you know, in
fully integrated life for this completely disintegrated
compartmentalized life. And you see that in lots of
parts of our world. I mean, I have this very
distinct memory from many years ago in high school, someone, we
were just like out of a group of kids and we were talking about
life and something about religion came up and and someone
and someone said to this one girl, she said, oh, well, what
religion are you? And she said she just had this,
like, aghast look on her face. She was like, that is a deeply
personal question. Yeah.
And I was like, whoa. Like, because I'm like, I, you
know, growing up in the church, it was like, yeah, like, we
should just, like, wear our faith on our sleeve.
Like, that's just a part of life, right?
Yeah. But for many it is not at all.
Yeah. So you know, I think that this
what I hope for our people and like what I long for our church,
even just for myself, like for my own family, is to to consider
and think of all of life as sacred in the truest sense of
that word. Like all of it created by God,
designed, ordered by God, all of it infused with God's Spirit.
God is present in all of it, desires to be present through
all of it. And that that changes the way
you approach like making sandwiches for your kid, like
making lunch for your kid, right.
I was once challenged by a pastor friend who was asking him
some questions on, you know, the, the dynamics of being a
pastor and having a family. He had three teenage daughters
at the time. I had two now like 3 young
daughters and his line was so I was asking him about, I can't
remember the question, but you know, loving God, loving your
family, loving the church. And he's like, no, no, stop.
Grant you you, you don't get it. He's like the the way I love my
family is the way I love Jesus. Like the way I love my daughters
is the way I love Jesus. The way I love my spouse is for
he's Like the way I love my wife is the way I love Jesus.
And so I wanted to like separate them out to understand, like
tell me all the young pastor, I'm like, tell me how to do
this. Well, like, how can I love
Jesus? How can I love my family?
How can I love my church? And he's like, you wrong
question, wrong question. And I remember going, Oh yeah,
yeah, all right. Like, but that's stuck with me.
I don't remember anything else of that conversation.
It was like an hour and a half conversation.
I remember anything else except for that that very specific
like, OK, we got to think about reintegrating all this in a
little bit better of a way. So I what I long for our church
is that same kind of hey, Jesus descends the mountain and brings
the Kingdom And so we come off these moments into real life,
whatever that means. And I go man, Jesus is no less
present there than he is at church.
Oregon worship, like, you know, concert at camp, retreat, like
wherever you are you go OK, it's going to feel different.
Takes discipline, but we got to take the presence of God with us
into those quote sort of mundane places because they're not.
Yes. And I also like think that,
yeah, it just means we need to actually like actively be
looking for God in those spaces. Sometimes it's easy to presume,
you know, Well, yeah, when I'm when I'm walking my kid to
school, that's just walking my kid to school.
But if we are looking for God at work in those moments, because
we do get, you know, my daughter and I often we walk to school
and we, we get to have a little chats.
Yeah. And there's something beautiful
and holy about that, you know? Yeah.
And sometimes they're not deep at all.
Sometimes they go weirdly deep in our 5 minute.
Walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is the beauty of like classic Christian discipleship.
Hmm. Right.
Which is just that type of real lived out life experience where
you go like, hey, we're going to get groceries because we need
food to put on the table. And it's like, well, I don't
want to do that. It's like, OK, let's talk about
that, right? Like I, yeah, there's, it's a
privilege to be able to take someone along.
I mean, it's, it's an extra, it's an extraordinary privilege
to be able to take your kid along.
Just say that it's a privilege to take somebody along with you,
um, for those everyday kind of moments and use them as ways to
talk about, to talk about Jesus. Do I do it well, all the time?
Absolutely not. Yeah.
So let's just say that too. Yeah.
Cause sometimes I'm more frustrated by getting T boned by
a cart or something or I'm not paying attention and I T-bone
somebody else with the card like.
Like to hazard so did Costco or something like.
That, well, it wasn't gonna name, you know, any places
specifically. But carts are just too big.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Justin, how else am I gonna fit my toilet
paper and all the other things? I know, I know.
All right, so let's that was a related and and great, great way
to jump into things. But a couple couple thoughts.
The first one, the first one looking at this language that
you see in here. So when Jesus, at the end of the
passage, he brings people back. He brings the disciples
particularly back to what he told them earlier in the chapter
for the first time. I'm gonna I'm gonna die.
Yeah, you know. And he says listen carefully to
what I'm about to tell you. The Son of Man is going to be
delivered into the hands of men. And they did not understand what
he meant, even though he just told them.
I, I guess maybe slightly more cryptically than he did
previously. But like, maybe it's maybe it's
hindsight for me, but like they should have been connecting some
dots. But but that's not the point.
The point is that that Jesus is, I think there's a gentle, more
gentle rebuke in here of saying, like you, you've kind of
forgotten. Like, you've kind of forgotten.
Let me help you remember. Yeah.
And so I want to talk about those two words of remembering
and forgetting. Yeah.
And particularly like, how do we, what are the ways in which
we kind of forget God? And I think more importantly,
what I, you know, think is better to focus on is how do we,
what are the ways in which we remember God?
And, and, and you know, we talked on that just a moment ago
in terms of our everyday life bringing God and everything.
But I think there's there's some more specific ways in which I
think we can remember God and I'd like to talk about that.
Of this, I think it's. Yeah, a couple of things from
Sunday from the message. We talked about how this is not
Jesus just, like, emotionally angry with the disciples.
Like, I can't believe you guys have been here.
Like how many years have we been at this and you guys still can't
get, you know, get this through your head, You know, So it's
it's not that on the one hand. And it is actually almost like,
hey, guys, get this through your heads.
Yeah, like he is, he is really trying to make sure they they're
hearing this. The language in Hebrew, it's the
term for it. Like it's a, I think I said
slang, but it's like it's a he Hebraism.
Like it's a. It's a very specific phrase that
is very common. Is it the listen carefully to
what I'm about to tell? You.
Yeah, which is functionally saying don't forget, right?
Remember this, Please don't forget this.
Uh, you know, it's like when my wife double checks I'm about to
leave the house. Like, hey, get anything else,
Please get this one thing. It's like, send me a text
message just so that I remember right.
That's what like it's, it's Jesus is saying Remember,
Remember, remember. I can't take out.
I she's like, do you remember my take out order?
No, I won't. So please please text me so that
I can remember. Yeah, absolutely.
This really is that that kind of, you know, it is that kind of
thing. So the disciples are, they're
supposed to be paying attention, I would presume they're paying
attention. And Jesus is quoting from
Deuteronomy. He's quoting from Isaiah very,
very specifically. And there's a lot of passages in
the Old Testament that point us to this same sort of cycle of,
to use your words, forgetting and remembering because that is
the language of Israel and of their relationship to God.
And you know, we've talked about this, obviously we're talking
about biblical Israel as language for the people know who
God chose throughout the Old Testament and they live out this
cycle of forgetting and remembering and forgetting and
remembering. And it's probably most seen like
I was thinking about this, it's probably most apparent in
Judges. So, so judges, the very last
line of the Book of Judges. Like haunting.
It is. I think it's the most terrifying
line 1 of the I mean, I say that about a couple, but I think it's
one of the most terrifying lines in all of Scripture.
So in in Judges 21, it's 2125. It says in those days Israel had
no king. So remember, God was meant to be
king. They had no king.
Everyone did as they saw fit. Other translations render that
everyone did what was right in their own eyes.
And and that's it's translated that way because actually
literally the word is judged. Everyone did as they judged as
they judged right And they got like, that's terrifying.
And it kind of feels like we live life in that radically
individual, um, like moral relativism where you get to
decide what is right for you and nobody can tell you that it is
wrong. And I go.
Right on. We've got a template for that
and it's one of the most like use your language.
It's one of the most haunting verses in Scripture is one of
the most terrifying things. So everyone in those days,
Israel had no king. Everyone did what was right in
their own eyes. Everyone did as they judged.
But if you look back at like throughout the book of Judges
and I just I marked 3 for us because you see it immediately
here and let me just find the the words.
So in seven, it's the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the
Lord. They forgot the Lord their God
and served the bales and the asuras.
So what we see Israel live into is this cycle of essentially
forgetting God and very specifically forgetting what God
had done immediately for them. Like forgiving, forgetting God's
deliverance, forgetting how God had delivered them from slavery
in Egypt, forgetting how God had LED them and guided them and
provided for them. Forgetting how when they were
hungry, provided food, forgetting when they needed, you
know, water, he provided like there's just this.
It's it's not just this general sort of they like were absent
minded and didn't really think of God.
It's very specific. They forgot the ways in which
God provided for them. And in doing that, what they do
is the second move of the pattern is they begin to look at
the nations around them, and they go, well, that nation has
this God, and that nation has their gods.
They're doing pretty well, and they're doing great.
Yeah, that nation has a king. We see it again, right?
Israel demands a king. And God's like, I don't think
it's gonna go the way that you want it to go there.
Like, no, we know we really want a king.
Everybody else has a king. Why can't we?
You already have a king. Well, not a real king.
Like, we want a real king. And it's almost like this
replaying of so you get Moses going up the mountain and
they're like, he's dead. Plus he's talking about a God
that we can't really see. All these other nations have
gods that they can see. Let's build something that we
can see with our own eyes because that feels closer.
And you know, so you, you get this cycle, forgetting God's
provision, his deliverance, the very real things that he had
done. And then turning and looking and
seeing these other nations, the gods that they worshipped, the
kings that they served, the ways in which they were successful in
the Israel, in Israel's eyes. And they said, we want some of
that. And so they begin worshipping
those gods. They begin serving those kings
that begin demanding for their own kings.
And what we see is this pattern of choosing then to live like
away from God and God eventually doing what God does, which is
like ameliorate the situation brings them back.
Usually it's through trouble and hardship.
And God calls them he kind of like back in some Hey, Remember,
Remember what I have done for you, which is why one of the
most common phrases throughout Israel's life is remember, hmm,
right. Many of the songs Psalms talk
about remember what God did in the time of right?
Remember how he let us out of Egypt?
Remember how he led us across dry land?
Remember how he led us through the wilderness?
Remember how he provided for us? Because it's very distinctly
when they lose sight of that very specific provision that
they start going, oh, maybe it won't happen again.
Maybe we gotta start gathering for ourselves.
Maybe we need to start stocking, storing up.
Maybe we need to start looking at other gods who can provide
different things. Like they got a lot of, you
know, something, maybe we gotta start doing our own thing.
It is it feels like there I think there's a couple a couple
little like themes to extract there that I I think are also
our own story personally and as a people is you get there is an
element of of comfort. And when you get into you know,
you've been provided for everything is good, everything
is comfortable. It becomes much easier to to not
have got it before. And so when God is not at the
forefront of your mind, it's easy.
It's easy to forget and and then secondly, there is a
discontentment as you look around you, you know, in this,
in the case of Israel, looking at the other nations, seeing
what they had and what they lacked or what the other nations
had and what they lacked. Naturally for us, I think that's
that's true, right? That is, it is.
It is easy to look around and to forget about God because we are
focused on our lack. So those are, I mean, when we
talk about what are the ways which we forget God, I think
that's. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm spoiling a
line for this coming sermon. But like, I think one of the one
of the main things that kills our faithfulness, spirituality,
our relationship with Jesus today is comparison, right?
And I don't think we fully understand how often we do that.
So we're talking, we're moving into this story where the
disciples are like, ah, Jesus, we don't really wanna, we don't
want to talk about your death. And you know, there is that
curious line where it's actually withheld from them, right?
Understanding of it is withheld from them.
So we've got that line to wrestle out.
But then they get into this argument about who's the
greatest. And which is about the service
level. So stupid.
Yeah, but it's like, how, how can we not, you know, reckon
with what you've just said? Jesus, let's do the most human
thing we can do. We'll compare ourselves and see
who's better. And I really do think I get
kills. Comparison kills intimacy, man.
Like it it. Comparison kills intimacy.
You know this for a relationship Like comparison kills intimacy
with spouses and comparison kills intimacy with Jesus.
So you comparing your life, your spirituality, your faith, your,
your prayer, your, your any of it it man, like I just think
that that's it's a road for killing your intimacy with Jesus
because you can go, it doesn't look like that.
It doesn't look like this. It doesn't feel like that.
I don't get this. I'm not like, you know, And
certainly this is true for pastors like their church is
bigger than our church. So like they must.
Be. What are we doing wrong?
What am? I right.
Yeah, exactly. And I go no, absolutely.
It's just this, yeah, yeah, a horrible cycle that we can get
into. So comparison for sure.
Yeah. And I think you could even
compare, like you could bring that even to material need and
possessions as well, right. Like, you know, it's easy to,
you know, my wife and I've been one for lots of walks around our
neighborhood lately and it's real easy to to start looking
and being like a wouldn't that be nice?
Cars in the driveway houses. And that's, yeah, like we try to
keep them as just fleeting, noticing rather than like a
truly like deep rooted, you know, sense of discontentment
because we, you know, we're very fortunate and blessed in our, in
our home and we, you know, yeah. But it is so easy to let that
seep in. And then become, like you said,
become discontent. Yeah, yeah.
God must be providing for them more than me.
Like we do. We fall into those, I think,
thoughts naturally. So those are some easy ways in
which we, you know, can forget God and, and what God is doing
and where God is, is active and moving.
But more to the, the positive end of things.
What are the things we can do to like to, to remember to like,
what are the, what are the practices that we can do to say
like, Hey, this is how we remember?
And and, and before I even, I'm just going to partially answer
the question before you even start loved the way on even on
Sunday. The remembrance was directly
connected to communion, right? So, so like just ripping off
that a little bit of like we are, we were we were called to
remember Jesus ends his passage was saying, remember, this is
what's going to happen. This is what's about to take
place. I am going to die, you know, And
then we jump into communion and. And it's and obviously a very
tangible reminder of of God. Yeah.
And his grace. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think just say, I think you, you pointed that out in our
teaching prep meeting. You know, hey, this is awesome
because we're gonna go straight from, you're going to go
straight from this into communion, you know.
Well, that's the conclusion then, like fantastic, right?
Like it was just that, yeah, it was, it was a great transition
to be able to pull off and go immediately into communion, say,
hey, like in the core of our being, like our bodies get to
experience this remembering. Yeah, yeah.
Which is why it's so, it's so important to, to like, I mean, I
think it's why the scriptures say like, don't, don't neglect
this practice. Yeah.
Because it is that regular vary. And some churches have different
rhythms. Some it's monthly or quarterly
or weekly. But whatever that rhythm looks
like for, you know, for us, it's it's monthly.
That rhythm is so critical because it draws us back.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK. So I'm going to go the opposite
way. That is like, well, I don't know
if it's opposite, but very not Sacramento.
So you go immediately to the sacrament of all sacraments,
right, Like Communion, Eucharist, like all in which I
love because it is, I think to, to take that though and say we,
we practice communion, like you said, once a month for very
specific reason. And that is we think that
probably every week would be a bit much, but quarterly is not
enough. It's not at what point is
something a habit? At what point is something a
ritual? At what point is something
beneficially adding the the discipline, the routine of we're
going to do this once a month. You know, I summer we're a
little bit more flexible I get, but you know, September through
to June, you're gonna get communion once a month and it's
gonna be on the 1st Sunday of the month, barring any major
something. Yeah, right.
Like that's like Christmas Day. We maybe wouldn't, I don't know,
maybe we would, but it's that that level of discipline I think
is required for us to say together, let's remember, let's
remember. And it is frequently enough that
it serves that function of constantly calling us back to
the presence of Jesus. Like constantly calling us back
to the table is a constant reminder of Jesus's death and
his resurrection and his presence through the Holy
Spirit. So how can we take that as like,
you know, sacrament and then think, all right, week to week I
go, that's the place of worship for many of us, right?
And worship, I think the the community gathering to lift high
the name of Jesus, to sing, to read scripture, to pray
together, to have coffee and tea.
You know that that intentional gathering is a constant reminder
of the death and resurrection of Jesus and the continuing
presence through the Holy Spirit.
And that's why I think it's so like, I, I hope I'm the last
person to guilt people into coming to church.
Like, hey, where were you? You weren't here, I though.
Like I genuinely believe that making it a habit is one of the
most important things you can do and one of the certainly one of
the most important things like a family can do together.
And that's I'm not saying like be at church on Sunday because
like that's the only way to be the church.
That's not what I'm saying. But I think that there, it's the
benefit of the discipline saying I'm going to show up might not
feel it. It's like, well, I just didn't
feel like going to church. Great to get your butt there.
You probably need it most like it's it's not about it's not
about feeling it and you might leave.
You might leave going. I didn't feel that like the
music wasn't my favorite. I go great, great.
Because it's not meant to be. It's not meant like it's, it is
meant to be a discipline. It's meant to be.
It's meant to be encouraging. Yes, absolutely.
It's also meant to be challenging.
Um, but it, it's, there's a reason why, like it's, it's been
one of the central disciplines of the church since the very
beginning. So I go that.
Way it's I love that and and I think that yeah, my thought was
as you were talking, I was like, you know what like, yeah, you
you don't want it to be some just ritual that you do
mindlessly. But also like if it is that
maybe that's just the turn out to make that every week.
But it you know, like if it's if it's, you know, once every few
weeks you're like, yeah, wasn't really didn't really get
anything out of that. Like, well, that's OK, come
back. I I go to the dentist I don't
love. It I don't get anything out of
this. I do not enjoy it, but I know I
need to do it. Yeah, now I hope that coming to
church is not like going to the dentist every single Sunday.
No, like no drilling noises but. But I'm just saying like, yeah,
I'm just saying like it's OK if on occasion you're like, it
doesn't feel like the most wonderful thing in your life
right now. Like it just to say like you
don't need to feel it in order to go.
You don't need to feel it. Can I say I'm gonna get real
vulnerable here? OK, I'm, I'm, I'm on staff at
the church and sometimes I feel that way.
Yeah. Wow.
That's amazing. That that like there are
sometimes when it's like and it's like Sundays done.
Oh, sorry, relief, OK, you know, and then others where it's like
that was a joy. I am so grateful for this
community and this place and yeah, yeah, yeah.
So now would you say that you can also notice though, Is there
like a felt experience when you do walk away and go man, I was
not feeling it today but I'm glad I went cause like I would
articulate that. But I've had, yeah, I've had
that. I've had that sometimes,
sometimes during times like I was not feeling out today and
I'm glad it's over. You know, part I think about
like even a couple weeks ago, I was running on like 3 hours of
sleep and was and was a zombie and I was not, my head was not
in the game. And and I walked away being
like, yeah, that I don't feel good about anything right now,
you know? It doesn't need to sleep.
I just need. And I had a great nap that
afternoon. Yeah.
Where whereas like yesterday, like I walked away being like
that. I feel so full right now and in
the best of ways, you know? Yeah.
Yeah, I would articulate that as well.
I think there are, there are moments that I can look back on
and go, yeah, I, you know, I was not feeling it wasn't, you know,
waking up super excited to go and then walked away feeling
like there's no other place I needed to be.
I could have been like, I had to be here.
And like, I can see that pattern all through my life growing up,
like growing up going to church, ironically on occasion felt like
work, like growing up kid of a pastor and I go, I got it.
I guess I gotta be there. And, you know, yeah, I, I, I
can, I can certainly, yeah. I can point at every stage of my
life. I can point out moments where I
go, yeah, I didn't wanna be there, Didn't wanna go, but
that's the place that Jesus needed me to be.
And usually for for reason I go. I I wouldn't have expected that
to happen. I wouldn't have been able to
name this. OK, So take it one step further
away. So we've got sacrament, we've
got worship, which still feels like, hey, super churchy answer,
right? Number one thing I wish people
did every single day. And I say that because the
number one thing I wish I did every day and I don't is do
essentially what the Psalms do, which is to write down the
things I want to remember. So that I mean, you know, I, I
don't write songs, but like, maybe somebody writes songs,
maybe somebody writes poetry, maybe you journal, maybe you
just get it on paper. I think we miss out on what God
is doing, and I think we miss remembering simply because we
don't choose to remember. We're not, we're not reflecting
enough. And yeah, you know, like there's
a, there's a, a practice that goes obviously it's, it's a very
like widely mentioned practice, the practice of gratitude,
right? Which is, which is like on a
surface level, Christian or not Christian, great thing to do to
just be grateful. But I think actually the, the
way that a Christian could could take that practice and and make
it make it a little bit more faith centric would be to, you
know, just make, you know, in the practice is usually like
write 5 things you're grateful for.
Yeah, if you, if we did that every day in and centred it
around grateful to God for the five ways in which we are
noticing God at work, the five ways in which we are
remembering. Yeah, whatever that looks like.
I think that could be cool. OK, so here's my challenge too.
I was having a conversation with a group of guys about this and
one one person said I I've changed my language around
gratitude and it's completely changed everything for me.
And as I said, OK, tell me this is great.
The shift that he made was from Sam.
So typically when we say you are grateful for, it sounds like I
am grateful for. And you know, maybe at best we
think like I'm thankful for. And so he said the flip that he
made was thank you for, right. And so unit does like it shifts
the subject like it's less about I am thankful that these things
happened, right? Like I'm still the key player
and it pushes it out to be like, no God, thank you for this.
Because what it can then sound like is.
Thank you for situation that you know was that was was painful.
Or situation that taught me how to or for a person who I never
expected would or for like it, it pushes it back on God and
others, which is the place where like gratitude should exist out
there, like toward others. And anyways, it's changed the
way I try to think about it now. I love that come wrestling it
out. So yeah, instead of I'm grateful
for, I'm thankful for. Thank you God for this.
That's different. I play it out with people too,
right? Hey, I'm grateful that you did.
Sounds a whole lot different than Justin.
Thank you for. Right.
Like, it's just a very subtle but significant shift.
I like that. Yeah.
So I wish people wrote down. And that's what I mean, that's
why so much of Scripture is so rich, because these are people
wrestling out how to remember what God did generation after
generation after generation. So write it down.
And I also think we need to remember, ironically, no pun
intended, like we need to remember how to tell stories.
I think we have lost some sense of like this collective
storytelling as a community where I remember thinking one
day, like, man, we've got the greatest story on earth, Like
the greatest story that's ever been told is written in these
pages, and we stink at telling. It's very often it's reductive.
And you know, we, we truncate the gospel, we, we don't tell
the obviously that's a, it's a large story.
So it's, there's a lot to tell. But no, I agree.
I agree that we have not always shared this incredible story in
a compelling way. Right.
So it's like I think about some of my favorite authors over the
years, and they go like, Tolkens telling the story in this
compelling way, right? CS Lewis tells the story in
these beautifully compelling ways.
I remember it hit me when I read like, I think it was Harry
Potter for the first time, which like, when we were growing up, I
remember like, there were debates in churches about
whether you could let your kid read Harry Potter or not.
Like we won't go down that. Those debates are still
happening for different reasons, probably.
I guess, but at any rate, I remember getting to the end of
it and spoiler alert if you haven't read the last one, I'm
like really this? Is it the best you could come up
with after seven books is that Harry dies and is resurrected?
Like that's the best we've got. And so I remember to hit hit me
like that for the first time when I was a kid reading that
book. What we doing?
We still stink at telling the story.
All just telling the story is better than we do.
So I think we need to like recapture what it's like to tell
the story of the gospel. It's really cool.
What, You know, I haven't watched too much of the Chosen,
but I think there are people out there who are trying to
recapture communal, like, what it means to be a community that
tells story. Yeah.
And that does it well and in compelling ways for 2025.
That's good. So hopefully those are some,
some good practices to consider and and as we talk about
remembering and for and hopefully not forgetting what
God has done. One other one other thought
connected to this passage. And you, you alluded this a
little bit in the sermon when, when Jesus rebukes the people
present. And, and we had, you know, we
admit that we, we don't know exactly, You know, it seemed
like it was a general statement, but you mentioned that in the
disciples would have felt it particularly hard.
But you know, these words of correction.
And then you, yeah, you mentioned that sometimes our
temptation is to, you know, rail against the, the, the evils of,
of the world in the same way that Jesus, you know, you, you
wicked and perverse generation. And and, and so the question
that came to my mind was, OK, I, I hear that and I agree with
that. And yet we talk a lot as
Christians about becoming like Jesus and so OHS, where's
where's the line? Where, where is the line?
Because I mean, I, I don't feel, I don't, I don't feel great
about like talking to people like that.
Personally, that's my little bit of my personality as well, but
yeah. Yeah.
So this, this is this is where that language of becoming like
Jesus, I wanna say, falls apart a little bit.
Yeah. Because we're not Jesus.
Right, right, right. At the same time, one of them
like that, I believe that's the language of Scripture.
I believe that's the language that Jesus uses.
I believe that that's the language of discipleship is
about becoming more like Jesus and learning to do these things
that Jesus did. I definitely, you know, like I
resonate with a lot of what Dallas Willard wrote on that
language around discipleship. Ironically, not staged because I
didn't put these books up there. Willard's The Divine Conspiracy
on Discipleship is up on that bookshelf behind Justin.
So little plug. Yeah.
Anyways, I I definitely think that that language has merit and
it has limitation. So this is probably where we see
limitation of it. Now we, yeah, I, I think the
distinction that I hope to embody and that I hope for our
church to embody is the difference between being judging
and being judgmental. Hmm.
Right. So in I think it was, it was a
while ago now. It was like 2013, 2012, 2014,
somewhere around there. Barna Research Organization did
this study of Christians, self-proclaimed Christians, and
found that their attitudes and actions were more closely
aligned with the attitudes and actions of the Pharisees, right
then they were aligned with the attitudes and actions of Jesus.
So, so majority close. I think it was like 51% or
something. So it's like close but still.
But not great. That's not great.
Close closer aligned with attitudes and actions that are
judgmental to use that hypocritical.
Placing an undue burden and expectation on people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, unloving, insensitive,
those those types of things. And I definitely think that we
can, yeah, as human beings, like we can tip into those categories
here. I do think that what what Jesus
is not doing is he's not like he as as as vague as this language
is. This is Jesus teaching, and this
is Jesus using language of the past to remind those who are
present of the cycle that many of them, like historically,
culturally, religiously, could identify with.
Like they're the ones still wrestling these things out.
You could even argue, I think, that that at this moment in
time, as Israel, you know, occupied by the by Roman rule,
they are maybe in a season of forgetfulness.
Yeah. And of being called back, yes,
right. Like that's what happens, right?
Like is, is Israel winds up in these moments and it's through
those hardships that they're kind of like reoriented back
toward God and this thing like this is the moment, this is it.
Don't forget, don't let it pass you by.
Like right here it is. So he doesn't run around calling
everybody wicked and perverse. Yeah.
So, you know, I think that, um, we, we in this, we are like we
are, we are called to be like Jesus in that we are judging of
the times. Discerning.
Be aware.
Don't do what's right in your own eyes.
You know, necessarily all the time.
And Christians are called, I think, to have this different
lens with which we approach the entirety of the world, I said.
I said that we as Christians are naturally, we contend to want to
do that. And so I just think it's worth
saying that's not what Jesus is doing here.
Yeah, Jesus is. An it's an insider conversation.
It is. So it's going to say he's
speaking to his disciples, He's speaking to the crowds those
have gathered. So now this would be closer to
like a church gathering around and saying, hey, we need to
remember, yeah, right. I might not use this exact
language, right? But but there could be an
intensity at times, like there. And I think that sometimes a
harsh word is going to be a harsh word.
But sometimes we need that. Yeah, sometimes I need that you.
Know like I do think that there is there is a place for rebuke.
Yeah. Right.
What I wish Christians understood more, myself
included, is we need to earn the right to be heard.
And Jesus had earned the right to be heard.
Yes. Right, so he he does what he he
what only he can do. Hmm.
But I think that, like, that's the thing I wish that we
wrestled with more is, you know, we, we want to stand and like,
judge what's going on. I think almost like as a way of
distancing ourselves from it and just like declaring, like, whoa,
what's going on over there? Don't love.
I'm gonna be over here. It's more comfortable for me to
be over here. It's cleaner.
Like, if I can just completely separate myself, you know, maybe
I can even blame what's going on for my own problems.
Like, why? Like, man, like why is the
church in North America in decline?
Oh, that's secularism. Like that's like we just, we
like blame, like just kind of shipping blame, right?
And so I think that that's, that's part of it.
You know, maybe, maybe we don't want to be confronted with our
own stuff. And so we find it's, it's, I
think maybe this is the number one reason why we do it.
If I can concern myself with other people's spirituality and
where they have or are failing in my eyes, then I don't have to
look introspectively like I don't need to allowed Jesus to
confront me. If like what Jesus is using me
to confront everybody else, that must mean that I've got it
figured out. And I say that like a little bit
tongue in cheek, but I think it's easier for me to point out
a flaw in somebody else than for me to address that same flaw in
myself. It's one of my biggest
challenges when I see someone, you know, yelling at passersby
on a street corner just because I'm like, I mean, a, you're not
really helping anything. But also like that's not really
the job of of a Christian, you know, like I was, we were
talking about this before we pushed record.
But just looking up this, this passage in First Corinthians
where there's this super intense situation that we don't need to
get into and you can read about. But the Paul, his his like take
away at the very end is what business is it of mine to judge
those outside the church? Yeah, Are you not to judge those
inside? And and like implication being,
yeah, that that there is that there is judgment and
discernment to happen within, you know, with within those in
the walls. But that what business is it of
mine, you know, like that like that's not my purview, right.
And it really wasn't Jesus either.
Yeah, the thing that I love about how Paul writes all of
what he does in the New Testament is for Paul, there's
not a whole lot that has greater importance than the unity of the
church. Hmm.
So when you look at all of his writings, it's, yeah, you know,
where, where he, he, he gets harsh, harsh with the church in
Galatia. So he he, he calls them foolish,
says you foolish Galatians who's bewitched you.
I mean foolish, that's a very like in their language has a
very intense. Sure.
That's to write that down, like to send that is in like that in
a letter is not. That's not a simple thing.
I mean, if I sent that to somebody by e-mail, chances are
they're going to be offended if I started an e-mail, like, yeah,
you foolish person who's bewitched you, Nobody's nobody's
reading that. Then going oht Yeah, you know
what? They're right.
Yeah, I'm glad. Like that's gonna land.
It's hard. Oftentimes what he what he is
articulating is that the unity of the Church matters typically
more than, you know, topic AB or C because of the way we are
perceived by those outside the church.
So, like, the simplest way I can put this is like, if we can't
even get along, who's gonna wanna look at that and go, well,
I want in. Yeah, that's right.
And, you know, like, they got more mess than than we do.
Yeah. Like what?
So in a certain way like this, certainly I want people thinking
like, the church is not a perfect place.
We're not. And certainly we should not just
put on the face of being perfect.
That's not what I'm saying. But like, I love this heart for
Paul. Paul, listen, Paul does in case
like, I don't care about what they're doing over there.
He's like, you guys get your head.
Screwed that all problems here, let's deal with them so that.
The message of the gospel continues to go out from the kid
like he's like, it's, it's not just that you look good.
It's not just that you feel good.
It's not just that you can get your reward in heaven.
It's so that the message of Jesus can continue to be
proclaimed through the church That that for him is like the
number one base priority that the gospel, like the the message
of Jesus is being lived out in a way such that it spreads through
the church. And he's like, we're going to
sacrifice some things to make sure that one main thing
happens, right? So unity for one.
He's like, hey, we are going to choose to be united for the sake
of the Kingdom and for the sake of the gospel and the message of
Jesus being spread, not because it's easy and comfortable and
makes us feel great. We're going to have awkward
conversations and hard conversations like hey, adult
men, you probably don't need to worry about getting circumcised
like awkward conversations about how to get along inside of
community. So for him it's it's about
understanding that why to use like Simon Cynic's language of
getting back to why. Start with why, yeah.
For us, it needs to be the same. You know, it needs like a one
priority needs to be that the message of Jesus is blowing up
beyond these walls. And and and not, not hindered by
our own stupidity. Yeah.
And that's what we see. I mean, we we really do.
And this is a hard word as just as we wrap up, but like it's a
challenge that we need to face that like there are there are
eyes on Christians and churches and and they see the ways in
which, you know, the churches functioning in, let's say, North
America, just as an example. Yeah, because it is still fairly
predominant and not always in good or healthy or or or helpful
ways. And by that I just mean like the
sometimes our our witness has been really bad.
Yeah, just to be very crystal clear.
Yeah. And and that doesn't help us to
be able to talk with our with our friends about Christ.
Yeah, so, OK, let's circle back all the way to 45 years
anniversary. Hmm, right.
It's not 50, it's not 100. It's not like 45 is 45.
It's longer than you and I have been alive.
Super significant anniversary for our church, like planted 45
years ago and we've talked around this idea.
I think we're entering into a little bit of like a danger zone
of we we're we're not a church plant anymore.
Hmm. Like this is our third iteration
of building. So yeah, planted here as a
rental. Well, this was a school, built a
building, came back, bought this school when it was closed as a
school, kind of ran out of it. And God did some amazing things
through all of that story. The the danger that we're into
is we're now far enough away from that original like church
planting spirit of like we are. We're gonna plant a church in
this part of Guelph because we believe that there are people
and families here who need to know Jesus, and we're gonna
provide that Christian witness here.
We're called to be rooted here and to be the church here and to
see the message of Jesus spread throughout our city.
And, you know, we're reaching a time where we still have some
folks who are around when the church was planted not but not
many. And there will come a day when
there are no more people around who were there when we were
planted. And we run the risk of I think
in these next years going, are we going to idolize the past in
a in an unhealthy way where we say, you know, we cannot do
certain things because this is, you know, this is how it was
started or why? Or are we gonna elevate the
beautiful mission and witness of those first planters and that
early church and say, hey, here's the Spirit and here was
the here's the mission. We're going to be crystal clear
that the mission really hasn't changed, but our methods need
to. Yeah, yeah.
And we were pretty clear on that when we when we were working
reworking our vision and mission statements that like, hey, like
we don't want to get caught up in methods because methods
change as as generations come and go, right.
And so we have, we, we want to be able to think that through
in, in a way that I mean, obviously there's lots of,
there's gonna be hard, you know, I'm sure they'll be hard
conversations because we become attached to certain ways of life
and being. And, and I, I do too.
We all do. And, and so, yeah, it's going to
be really interesting. I'm looking for.
I'm looking forward to. It I just think we have we have
a beautiful opportunity to honor the the.
People who have come before us. Yeah, right.
And on whose shoulders we stand. And to say the best way we can
honor what they've done and accomplished is by ensuring that
it's here for another 45 years. Hmm.
And another 45 after that. Yeah.
So, yeah. Remember, tell the stories,
write things down. Come to church, take communion,
do the things. Love that.