1
00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:03,190
Hey everyone, welcome to the 
Sunday. 

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,830
Sit down and I'm here with 
Pastor Grant as we are ready to 

3
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,030
explore a really difficult 
passage. 

4
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,890
And and so this past Sunday we 
were reading through the very 

5
00:00:17,900 --> 00:00:21,270
end of Luke Chapter 9. 
We are after feels like a couple

6
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,270
months really in this chapter. 
We are moving into Luke chapter 

7
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,650
10 this week, but it ends on 
quite a doozy. 

8
00:00:28,740 --> 00:00:32,850
Yes, it does. 
And it like it feels hard and 

9
00:00:32,860 --> 00:00:34,570
even harsh. 
You read it and you're like, 

10
00:00:34,580 --> 00:00:39,170
yeah, yeah, what's going on? 
Yeah, What is Jesus talking 

11
00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:42,010
about? 
Here so, so Jesus in this 

12
00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:47,440
passage, he both inner, he 
interacts with like 3 different 

13
00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:52,590
scenarios and sentences and, and
sometimes the people come to 

14
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,860
him. 
Sometimes he goes to the person 

15
00:00:54,870 --> 00:00:56,750
and says something, you know, 
it's like the person comes to 

16
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,640
him and says, I will follow you 
wherever you go. 

17
00:00:58,710 --> 00:01:01,680
And then the next time it's 
Jesus says to the person, follow

18
00:01:01,690 --> 00:01:03,560
me. 
And then another person says, 

19
00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:07,430
I'll follow you, but let me 
first say what farewell to those

20
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,210
at my home. 
So it's this interesting dynamic

21
00:01:11,220 --> 00:01:14,770
where of like just back and 
forth and interacting with these

22
00:01:15,650 --> 00:01:19,360
unknown people that we don't, 
you know, it doesn't name them. 

23
00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:21,950
Hmm. 
Which actually kind of maybe is 

24
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,370
a good starting place for 
moments. 

25
00:01:24,700 --> 00:01:30,130
You mentioned in the sermon that
you chose a different 

26
00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:31,530
translation than you normally 
chose. 

27
00:01:31,540 --> 00:01:33,390
And we've gotten into this a 
little bit at times. 

28
00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:37,410
So you chose the ESV, which is 
the English standard version. 

29
00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:42,050
And and so you had a particular 
reason for that. 

30
00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:43,290
Yeah. 
And you said there was a 

31
00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:46,650
particular word, the word 
someone that it says the very 

32
00:01:46,660 --> 00:01:51,150
first section 57, it says as 
they were going along the road, 

33
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,110
someone said to him, I will 
follow you wherever you go. 

34
00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:59,090
So what what's going on there? 
Can you unpack that a little? 

35
00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:01,530
Bit yeah, one word, literally 
for one word. 

36
00:02:01,540 --> 00:02:06,730
So yeah, I think probably most 
often I'm preaching from the new

37
00:02:06,740 --> 00:02:09,630
international version, the NIV I
will. 

38
00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:19,930
So I find it the NIV I find to 
be generally for people the most

39
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:26,900
readable version that is also 
closest to the original text. 

40
00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:31,880
So I think you know, and I'm 
using a version from, I think 

41
00:02:31,890 --> 00:02:38,360
it's the 80s still like. 19. 84 
that Cambridge put out and so I 

42
00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:46,840
like the mix of readability in 
it and honesty and attempt to 

43
00:02:46,850 --> 00:02:52,140
capture the original meaning of 
the closer to a literal 

44
00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:55,200
translation of in the New 
Testament, the Greek text. 

45
00:02:55,290 --> 00:03:03,500
So a good example of one of the 
reasons why I like the NIV is I 

46
00:03:03,510 --> 00:03:08,310
think it does some of the, which
is interesting because this is 

47
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,560
the exact reason I didn't choose
the NIV for this one. 

48
00:03:10,570 --> 00:03:13,290
Yeah, for this message is, I 
think it does some of the like 

49
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,330
inclusive gendered language 
fairly well. 

50
00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:22,400
So for example, when it's 
talking about when it's, the 

51
00:03:22,410 --> 00:03:26,930
translation may say men or 
brothers, when really it does 

52
00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:28,260
mean everyone. 
Yeah. 

53
00:03:28,270 --> 00:03:34,130
So, you know, very often you'll 
read brothers Adelphoi plural of

54
00:03:34,140 --> 00:03:39,850
Adele Foss, which is brother. 
But you know, we, we also 

55
00:03:39,860 --> 00:03:45,510
understand that in language 
where there is masculine and 

56
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:51,280
feminine, uh, words, typically 
you're using a masculine word in

57
00:03:51,290 --> 00:03:55,990
the plural form to represent a 
group of people that is not only

58
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,510
men, right. 
So y'all y'all. 

59
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,810
Exactly you all y'all. 
Seem like, Hey, guys. 

60
00:04:03,820 --> 00:04:05,290
Yeah, exactly. 
Hey, guys. 

61
00:04:05,300 --> 00:04:06,750
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

62
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,890
So, you know, that's not the 
reason why I choose the NIV, but

63
00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:15,570
I think they did a pretty good 
job of trying to use language 

64
00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:19,660
that everybody can read and find
their way into the text. 

65
00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:23,260
Yeah, right. 
So that, I think is important. 

66
00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:30,560
It's important to find your own 
way into the scriptures and see 

67
00:04:30,570 --> 00:04:34,900
yourself there and feel like 
experience your way into the 

68
00:04:34,910 --> 00:04:36,680
story. 
And I think the NIV does a good 

69
00:04:36,690 --> 00:04:41,850
job of that, you know of, yeah, 
that balance. 

70
00:04:41,900 --> 00:04:44,270
But in this passage. 
So in this passage though they 

71
00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:52,810
don't and it in the NIV it's a 
man comes to Jesus and literally

72
00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:57,570
it is someone comes to Jesus. 
And I just thought I'm going to 

73
00:04:57,580 --> 00:05:01,470
waste too much time going down 
this rabbit trail to make a very

74
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,550
simple point. 
It's not worth it. 

75
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,790
I'm going to start with the 
translation that starts with 

76
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,590
someone because that's what I 
think is most honest and closest

77
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,860
to the original language. 
And it's the specific to the 

78
00:05:13,870 --> 00:05:17,940
point that I was trying to make,
which is someone comes to Jesus 

79
00:05:17,950 --> 00:05:20,000
and says Jesus, I will follow 
you wherever you go. 

80
00:05:20,170 --> 00:05:24,800
And I heard a sermon from the 
now former retired president of 

81
00:05:24,930 --> 00:05:30,510
the seminar that I went to in a 
sermon say very simply like this

82
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,890
someone could be anyone. 
This someone could be me. 

83
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:38,420
This someone could be you. 
And I, you know, sort of half 

84
00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:43,080
quoted him in in the sermon. 
I said very similarly, like this

85
00:05:43,090 --> 00:05:46,300
someone could be could be 
anybody and it could be you. 

86
00:05:46,370 --> 00:05:49,680
And in fact, you should see 
yourself here. 

87
00:05:49,690 --> 00:05:55,400
It ought to be, you know, here's
someone who is is wanting and 

88
00:05:55,410 --> 00:06:00,440
longing to follow Jesus. 
We don't fully know exactly like

89
00:06:00,450 --> 00:06:03,620
Luke, at least, you know, to be 
honest to Luke's text, we don't 

90
00:06:03,630 --> 00:06:06,100
know how this story ends for 
this guy. 

91
00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:11,190
Yeah, whether he, you know, 
whether this someone follows 

92
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,910
Jesus or not. 
But like Luke doesn't tell us. 

93
00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:20,030
What I think I wanted and still 
want people to hear is the call 

94
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,050
to follow Jesus, the call to 
follow me, to be that someone 

95
00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:26,710
who rises up and says Jesus, I 
will follow you wherever you go.

96
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,570
Like that is still, I believe, 
the fundamental call that Jesus 

97
00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:35,410
issues to every single person. 
And one of our one of our one of

98
00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:37,800
the questions that you need to 
be confronted with is how you're

99
00:06:37,810 --> 00:06:39,350
going to respond to that 
question. 

100
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,510
And so, you know, here are three
people. 

101
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,980
It's this great. 
Jesus is always very typically 

102
00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:48,530
doing this. 
And it's very common in Jesus 

103
00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:50,650
day. 
This like threefold teaching 

104
00:06:51,180 --> 00:06:54,930
where there's like you've 
already said, there's the I will

105
00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:58,170
follow, follow me, I will follow
the three. 

106
00:06:58,180 --> 00:07:00,970
That threefold repetition is 
very common in Jesus is 

107
00:07:00,980 --> 00:07:02,930
teaching. 
It's very common in the teaching

108
00:07:02,940 --> 00:07:07,130
of the day to make a point. 
So what Luke is doing very, very

109
00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:13,580
critically live very 
intentionally is draw like 

110
00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:18,720
painting this picture of Jesus 
reminding these would be 

111
00:07:18,730 --> 00:07:21,640
followers and in a sense 
reminding his own like his 

112
00:07:21,650 --> 00:07:26,500
followers, his disciples and us 
what it really means to follow 

113
00:07:26,510 --> 00:07:28,410
him. 
And so that threefold you're 

114
00:07:28,420 --> 00:07:30,460
like, we're supposed to see 
ourselves there. 

115
00:07:30,470 --> 00:07:33,670
The someone is supposed, I think
it's supposed to draw you in and

116
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,520
be like, it could be me. 
It should it ought to be. 

117
00:07:36,530 --> 00:07:39,380
It is me, like, Yep, Jesus, I'm 
with you. 

118
00:07:39,790 --> 00:07:44,900
And then the flip is, yes, I'm 
there, I'm in, I want to follow.

119
00:07:45,110 --> 00:07:48,920
I'm all in even I'm willing to 
do whatever it takes. 

120
00:07:49,090 --> 00:07:53,640
And then to be, you know, 
confronted with that. 

121
00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:56,210
Oh, but you still don't fully 
understand what it is. 

122
00:07:56,220 --> 00:08:02,450
Yeah. 
Also, I two don't fully always 

123
00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:05,510
understand the cost of what it 
means. 

124
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,820
So I think it's this, it's this 
beautiful and we didn't get this

125
00:08:08,830 --> 00:08:10,450
far into it. 
I do think it's this beautiful 

126
00:08:10,460 --> 00:08:15,390
rhetorical move that Jesus makes
and that Luke captures, which is

127
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,790
to like pull you in and get you 
to this place where you're like,

128
00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:23,420
I'm there, I'm all in and but 
are you? 

129
00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:26,300
And then he says, and this is 
what it means. 

130
00:08:26,370 --> 00:08:30,860
And you go, ohhhhh, I didn't 
maybe fully understand. 

131
00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,280
And it just hits you differently
than, you know, this isn't Jesus

132
00:08:34,289 --> 00:08:36,130
saying, OK, here's the pitch to 
become a disciple. 

133
00:08:36,140 --> 00:08:39,080
This is what is going to mean 
who is in like he's like he's 

134
00:08:39,090 --> 00:08:42,140
he's got your attention. 
He's, you know, captured your 

135
00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:45,840
maybe your heart and your mind. 
And then he says, Hey, it's not,

136
00:08:45,850 --> 00:08:49,040
I don't think this bait and 
switch, but it is a cautionary, 

137
00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:52,320
like don't, don't become 
overzealous. 

138
00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:55,050
Yeah. 
Without also realizing the cost 

139
00:08:55,060 --> 00:08:57,840
of love. 
Yeah, Yeah, it's, it was 

140
00:08:57,850 --> 00:09:00,630
daunting me as you were, as we 
were kind of rhyming off those, 

141
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,130
those 3 phrases. 
I mean, at, at the risk of being

142
00:09:04,140 --> 00:09:09,490
very wrong here, it almost feels
like slightly chiastic like like

143
00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,450
that I will follow at the 
beginning and then I will follow

144
00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:14,870
as the final statement. 
And then Jesus in the centre 

145
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,820
starts and he says follow me. 
And it feels like, yeah, in in 

146
00:09:18,830 --> 00:09:21,930
any chiastic structure, you're 
supposed to kind of zero in on 

147
00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:24,300
the centre. 
And it's like Jesus saying 

148
00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:26,300
follow me, That's the most 
important thing. 

149
00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:28,520
Rather than just saying I will 
follow, I will do this. 

150
00:09:28,530 --> 00:09:31,480
Like, good intentions aside, 
right? 

151
00:09:31,630 --> 00:09:33,920
She says just follow me, right? 
Anyway. 

152
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:36,240
Yeah, So I don't think you're 
wrong. 

153
00:09:37,070 --> 00:09:42,400
Like and, and let me let me say 
why, because I, so I've not 

154
00:09:42,410 --> 00:09:46,240
heard anybody else name it that 
way. 

155
00:09:46,250 --> 00:09:50,300
But what I would what I would 
say is I I think Jesus is 

156
00:09:50,310 --> 00:09:53,310
constantly trying to do this in 
his teaching, is trying to do 

157
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,410
this flip of so even just think 
of like I will follow. 

158
00:09:58,580 --> 00:10:01,710
No, follow me. 
I will follow. 

159
00:10:03,250 --> 00:10:07,010
Who's the principal actor, 
right? 

160
00:10:07,060 --> 00:10:09,480
Yeah. 
Like I, I do think that there's 

161
00:10:09,490 --> 00:10:12,930
a word of caution to someone who
overzealously says I will do 

162
00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:18,110
this, I will do this. 
But Jesus says no, follow me, 

163
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,930
right, Like the attention is 
almost shifting. 

164
00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:26,900
I will follow, follow me. 
I will follow does exactly. 

165
00:10:26,910 --> 00:10:30,780
I think what you're suggesting, 
which is put the focus on Jesus 

166
00:10:30,790 --> 00:10:33,600
call and that's what Bonhoffer 
in the Cost of Discipleship 

167
00:10:33,610 --> 00:10:39,380
focuses on, you know, like more 
than anything, like almost to 

168
00:10:39,390 --> 00:10:43,830
the degree where you could say 
it, it the IT doesn't matter. 

169
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,970
Like you saying I will do 
something doesn't matter, 

170
00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:52,070
doesn't matter until Jesus says 
follow me first. 

171
00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,370
Like Jesus first needs to call a
human bond offer does this. 

172
00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:58,110
He says just first needs to call
a man, but he first needs to 

173
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,490
call a human like a person. 
And our role is to respond 

174
00:11:04,660 --> 00:11:08,380
right? 
I don't know anybody who walked 

175
00:11:08,390 --> 00:11:14,250
up to someone and said, without 
having ever met them first, 

176
00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:17,210
things out of their mouth. 
I'm going to marry you. 

177
00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:20,580
Like there's, there's a little 
bit of that. 

178
00:11:20,590 --> 00:11:24,400
I think like we need to, the 
focus needs to be on the call of

179
00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:27,320
Jesus that he places on the 
human being. 

180
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:32,330
And our role is to respond and 
to be drawn and pulled in that 

181
00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,360
direction. 
So I think, I think that's a 

182
00:11:34,370 --> 00:11:35,540
great way to think. 
About it. 

183
00:11:35,610 --> 00:11:41,130
Side note though, I did declare,
at least to myself, that before 

184
00:11:41,140 --> 00:11:43,000
I even met my wife that I was 
going to marry her. 

185
00:11:44,330 --> 00:11:46,560
Right on. 
So was it the first thing you 

186
00:11:46,570 --> 00:11:49,580
said to her when you met? 
Her it was not OK. 

187
00:11:50,130 --> 00:11:52,710
Because that would have been 
great in real time to meet the 

188
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:59,640
very first person. 13 years old.
Wow, we were just talking about 

189
00:11:59,650 --> 00:12:04,620
how you have predicted the last 
two Blue Jays games outcomes. 

190
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:08,750
Well, I'm just, I'm an eternal 
optimist getting, we're getting 

191
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,240
ready in real time here to get 
my heart crushed as they enter 

192
00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:13,560
the playoffs. 
So. 

193
00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:16,960
The marriage marriage has a 
little bit more at stake to. 

194
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:19,530
It but I do think there's 
something interesting when you, 

195
00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:22,650
when you talk about like 
relationships of that nature, 

196
00:12:22,660 --> 00:12:29,410
like like a marriage, you know, 
you, you have someone, if 

197
00:12:29,420 --> 00:12:32,590
someone constantly went to that 
person that they that they 

198
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,390
professed to love and are 
constantly saying, I will do 

199
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:42,770
this, I will do this, I will do 
this, but don't actually put in 

200
00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:46,930
the work to do the thing like 
that. 

201
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:51,750
You know the intentions are 
irrelevant in some ways. 

202
00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:53,310
Yeah, OK. 
Prove it, buddy. 

203
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,350
Prove it. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

204
00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:57,500
And I just thought that was 
interesting as we were talking 

205
00:12:57,510 --> 00:12:59,850
about that a little bit. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

206
00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:04,310
So no, I do think it like Jesus 
pursues you and that's the 

207
00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:08,210
that's the beauty of how God 
acts throughout all of 

208
00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:10,210
Scripture. 
And it's the beauty of how God 

209
00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:13,810
continues to act throughout 
human history is like God is one

210
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:17,970
who pursues and calls and back 
ends and summons. 

211
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:24,580
Karl Bart talks about like he 
uses language of being woken up,

212
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:29,980
like being being awakened to the
reality of who God is. 

213
00:13:30,030 --> 00:13:34,650
And, you know, realize that some
of that language has been turned

214
00:13:34,750 --> 00:13:39,070
into twisted sideways now. 
But like I, I think that's a 

215
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:45,450
beautiful illustration of like 
God relentlessly pursuing the 

216
00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:53,250
person and, and our role being 
to almost relax into a response 

217
00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:56,570
as opposed to like anxiously 
trying to grab for ourselves 

218
00:13:56,580 --> 00:13:58,730
something that we will never 
fully attain. 

219
00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:05,220
I wish. 
I wish more people for their own

220
00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:09,450
sake, like not not because I'm a
pastor and I want to be right 

221
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:12,020
about something, but like for 
their own sake, I wish more 

222
00:14:12,030 --> 00:14:17,140
people would just relax their 
way into hearing the call of 

223
00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:18,700
God. 
But it's something I need to 

224
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:21,400
hear. 
And I think, you know, growing 

225
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:25,050
up and and you know, I would say
like my theological training 

226
00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:30,540
leans more into Wesleyanism 
versus reformed theology, right?

227
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:33,940
And, and sometimes they, those 
were very much at odds with the 

228
00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:37,100
other, right. 
But I think when we see things 

229
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:40,260
rightly in there, you know, in, 
in the way that they are 

230
00:14:40,270 --> 00:14:45,120
intended, that the, the, the 
reformed tradition in particular

231
00:14:45,130 --> 00:14:51,480
has a real gift of saying like, 
stop, stop stressing so much 

232
00:14:51,490 --> 00:14:54,540
about doing all the things 
because Jesus is doing the 

233
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:57,180
thing, you know, that Jesus is 
pursuing you. 

234
00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:00,400
Like just sit with that reality,
right? 

235
00:15:00,470 --> 00:15:04,280
That's, that's something that I 
need because I, I think that 

236
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:08,030
there, there are some, some, you
know, things that I have 

237
00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:10,790
inferred over the years that are
not always right or true about, 

238
00:15:10,850 --> 00:15:13,420
you know, certain schools of 
theology, this, you know, this 

239
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:16,580
being one of them. 
And so for me, I, I've, that's 

240
00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:19,600
been a gift for me to be able to
just say like, I just need to 

241
00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:24,520
sit with that reality that this 
is healthy and good to just rest

242
00:15:24,530 --> 00:15:28,420
in, in the, the work that Christ
has done in pursuing me. 

243
00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:33,540
I think at its best, reformed 
theology does that, and I think 

244
00:15:33,550 --> 00:15:35,790
at its worst it does the exact 
opposite. 

245
00:15:36,050 --> 00:15:38,530
Right, Yeah, right. 
Well, and I think that you could

246
00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:40,300
say the same thing for 
Methodism, right? 

247
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:42,310
Absolutely. 
Like that it that it becomes, 

248
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,300
you know, the tension is that 
you know, there grace is huge in

249
00:15:45,310 --> 00:15:50,200
Wesleyanism, but also there is a
strong emphasis on on on 

250
00:15:50,270 --> 00:15:54,240
personal choice and right, which
can go sideways if you if you go

251
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:57,880
about it in the wrong way. 
Yeah, no, absolutely. 

252
00:15:58,650 --> 00:16:04,040
So we talked about 33 challenges
to following Jesus, like to 

253
00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:05,950
answering this call to follow 
Jesus. 

254
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,290
And then I gave 3 practices for 
each of those, which I think 

255
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:13,630
we're gonna try to talk about in
a little bit more kind of 

256
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,140
concrete terms. 
But I do think just to kind of 

257
00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:24,250
link the two pieces, I, I said 
this on Sunday, like I, I 

258
00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:26,910
genuinely believe this. 
Like I, I, I know there are 

259
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:32,810
people who very adamantly do not
want to follow Jesus very 

260
00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:40,360
adamantly. 
So I generally assume that, you 

261
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:46,330
know, most, most people who call
themselves Christians want to 

262
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:50,100
follow Jesus. 
And we struggle with this 

263
00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:52,380
internal kind of battle of the 
wills. 

264
00:16:52,390 --> 00:16:56,530
Yeah, like my will and what 
Christ wills for me and on my 

265
00:16:56,540 --> 00:17:00,890
behalf. 
Yeah, and what I want and what 

266
00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:05,800
what Jesus wants for me. 
And so like I, I, I do think 

267
00:17:05,810 --> 00:17:11,020
that I generally assume that 
people want to follow Jesus. 

268
00:17:11,089 --> 00:17:14,960
Well, but we're all broken. 
Hmm. 

269
00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:18,240
And we all wrestle with this 
internal struggles. 

270
00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:22,390
And so that's what I was trying 
to name a little bit is not the 

271
00:17:22,430 --> 00:17:25,760
sense of like, how could you not
want to follow? 

272
00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:28,569
Let me convince you of why it 
matters. 

273
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:32,800
But for those people who are 
wrestling it out, whether they 

274
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:37,080
believe or not, like whether 
they are in in early sort of 

275
00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:41,220
stages of wrestling out what 
they believe or whether they are

276
00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:44,740
wondering and questioning and 
just curious about religion and 

277
00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:47,920
coming to it for the first time.
Like, I think there's a genuine,

278
00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:53,480
like, want to, to discover and 
find out or, you know, for many 

279
00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:55,730
people who've been in the church
for a long time, like I think 

280
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:58,140
there's a genuine desire to do 
the thing. 

281
00:17:58,150 --> 00:18:00,520
And This is why I use Paul's 
language. 

282
00:18:00,530 --> 00:18:03,030
It's like I, I want to do the 
right thing and I just keep 

283
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,340
doing the wrong thing. 
Yeah. 

284
00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:06,970
You know, we we wrestle this sin
thing out daily. 

285
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,390
And so that's where these 
challenges came from. 

286
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:16,730
I think in some ways an attempt 
to name the some of the modern 

287
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:19,930
challenges to being a follower 
of Jesus. 

288
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:22,990
Hmm. 
And then, yeah, one practice 

289
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,210
that can help kind of push 
against and form us in a 

290
00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:32,920
different way. 
So the first one, so as they 

291
00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:34,790
were going along the road, 
someone said to him, I will 

292
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,300
follow you wherever you go. 
And Jesus said to him, the foxes

293
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:41,910
have holes and birds of the air 
have nests, but the Son of man 

294
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:47,010
has nowhere to lay his head. 
And so you, you highlighted the,

295
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:54,570
the challenge of comfort here 
and that the, the person is, you

296
00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:58,570
know, boldly declaring that they
will go wherever Jesus goes. 

297
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,490
But then Jesus says, but it's 
not always going to be 

298
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,460
comfortable and it's not always 
going to to have, you know, 

299
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:06,100
there there will not be a 
luxury. 

300
00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:08,900
It's not going to be a five star
hotel along the way. 

301
00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:15,190
And, and so just that the very 
practical piece of, of comfort 

302
00:19:15,530 --> 00:19:19,900
is not always going to be in the
cards for a follower of Jesus, 

303
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:23,390
right. 
And that the tension there is 

304
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,660
that that doesn't mean that 
Jesus isn't also our comfort and

305
00:19:26,670 --> 00:19:29,250
that the Holy Spirit is not also
our comfort. 

306
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,550
Yeah. 
And that there is not moments 

307
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,750
and, and times of, of beauty 
and, and enjoyment and all those

308
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,310
things, right? 
That it doesn't exclude those 

309
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,770
things. 
But Jesus is saying, look, that 

310
00:19:41,780 --> 00:19:44,910
the road is not always going to 
be easy and you need to be ready

311
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,430
and prepared for that. 
And then you, you responded with

312
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,660
the the answer to that, that 
challenge of comfort with as 

313
00:19:52,670 --> 00:19:57,740
generosity and and generosity 
being just an ultimately like a 

314
00:19:57,750 --> 00:20:01,680
desire to like if the more I 
give, even to the point of 

315
00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:06,680
discomfort, like it's actually 
going to free me so much. 

316
00:20:06,690 --> 00:20:08,960
More. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

317
00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:12,940
I think it's CS Lewis who says 
that if you don't give away 

318
00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:16,940
enough to make yourself 
uncomfortable, he probably has 

319
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:20,220
harsher language than this, but 
at least think about it, right? 

320
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,430
I think he says we ought like 
the Christian should should be 

321
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,270
like, ought to be the one who 
gives away what feels like just 

322
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:33,150
a little bit too much, which, 
you know, I think we can come to

323
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,570
the conversation around 
generosity from different 

324
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:39,560
perspectives. 
I think part of it is always 

325
00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:42,060
going to circle back around to 
money and we can talk kind of 

326
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:46,250
more about that too. 
But, you know, I think the the 

327
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:49,350
type of generosity that I was 
talking about on on Sunday is 

328
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:54,910
not simply when generosity that 
refers only to money, but I 

329
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,070
think just in terms of all of 
the way you live your life and 

330
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,610
how you make decisions. 
How are you becoming one who is 

331
00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:11,720
practicing being generous? 
And I, I, I think that is in 

332
00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:15,550
terms of how you think about 
your money, right? 

333
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,390
How you spend it, how you 
allocate it, what you budget. 

334
00:21:19,140 --> 00:21:21,870
So for starters, do you budget 
right? 

335
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,050
Do you plan to give away? 
Or is it like, let me do all the

336
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:29,900
things and then whatever's left,
you know, if there's something 

337
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:33,250
left over, then I can be 
generous with that, right? 

338
00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:36,290
I think the Christian is the one
who is called to say no. 

339
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,950
The, the first things that we 
give are the things we give back

340
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,430
to God. 
So that is going to be money. 

341
00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:45,070
But I also want people to think 
about their time and their 

342
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,460
energy, some of the like your 
most precious resources. 

343
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:52,850
You know, how you are spending 
your time, how you're spending 

344
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:55,190
your days becomes how you spend 
your life. 

345
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,430
So are you doing it in a way 
that is living open handed 

346
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,380
toward God and going God? 
You know, even today, would you 

347
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:11,160
make me generous so that I can 
live for somebody else's benefit

348
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:15,240
and not mine, Right. 
Like I think it's even as silly 

349
00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:18,500
as like, you know, we're talking
before like I'm, I might have to

350
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:24,740
go up and visit a family member 
and I think about that drive and

351
00:22:25,450 --> 00:22:32,190
I go, I got like 407401400. 
I'm like, OK, I'm going to be 

352
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,350
generous. 
I'm gonna give people space. 

353
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:35,990
I don't know, people give people
grace. 

354
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:37,610
I'm gonna not. 
Stress on the. 

355
00:22:37,620 --> 00:22:39,170
Highway on the. 
Highway. 

356
00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:43,390
Oh boy. 
And so like, I, I really, I want

357
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,480
people thinking and I, I wanna 
be one who thinks about all of 

358
00:22:47,490 --> 00:22:51,970
these moments of my life as an 
invitation toward generosity. 

359
00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:57,980
So giving extra grace. 
That that is generosity and, and

360
00:22:57,990 --> 00:23:00,950
that's, yeah, reframing it and 
that, yes, it's not not about 

361
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,260
money, but it is. 
That's so much more and, and, 

362
00:23:04,270 --> 00:23:09,500
and for us to conflate only 
generosity with money would 

363
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:10,840
would be a danger. 
Right. 

364
00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:13,720
Absolutely, and it actually like
something that we did yesterday 

365
00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:16,640
in our service is like a little 
bit of insider baseball here. 

366
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:21,820
So I, I, we on the 4th Sunday of
every month, we take up an 

367
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:23,530
offering. 
We don't do that every week, but

368
00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:28,100
we pass the plates for those who
would who liked and enjoy the 

369
00:23:28,110 --> 00:23:30,550
the physicality of of that, 
right. 

370
00:23:30,590 --> 00:23:31,870
And there's an importance to 
that. 

371
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,560
And it just keeps things on our 
mind. 

372
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,290
And, and the reality is we are, 
we are reliant to function as a 

373
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,540
church on the generosity of of 
our congregants, right? 

374
00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:47,070
That's just reality, right? 
But I came to you and I said, 

375
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,690
OK, so I have the offerings 
slated for right after the 

376
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,530
sermon. 
And you're like, Nope, you're 

377
00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:55,250
like, no, we got let's let's, 
let's like, but let's, let's 

378
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:56,400
create a buffer there. 
Yeah. 

379
00:23:56,450 --> 00:23:59,020
And, and you couldn't, you know,
you couldn't quite articulate in

380
00:23:59,030 --> 00:24:03,230
the moment, but you were 
realizing you did not want to 

381
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,450
conflate those two things, which
I think was the right thing to 

382
00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:10,510
do. 
So I, I had a prayer, a moment 

383
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,990
slated in there in between that.
And then I led the offering, 

384
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:16,410
which I think was the right 
call, right? 

385
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,000
Yeah. 
Because we don't want, we don't 

386
00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:23,830
want to make it seem, especially
because it feels very like self 

387
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,730
interested to to make generosity
all about money and all about 

388
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:33,650
giving to the church when we 
should be doing generous things 

389
00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:37,260
with our resources and money in 
in ways that go far beyond just 

390
00:24:37,270 --> 00:24:39,830
giving to the church, right? 
That I should be generous with 

391
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:42,010
making a meal for someone in 
need. 

392
00:24:42,020 --> 00:24:45,530
I should be generous by because 
that costs time and money and 

393
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:48,930
resources, right? 
I should be generous with my 

394
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:52,310
neighbors in in in various ways 
when I find out that they are 

395
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,310
sick or, you know, whatever, 
right? 

396
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,390
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I, I think that was, that was a 

397
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:04,200
really, I think beautiful moment
and exchange and two things that

398
00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:07,090
I, that I want to say 1. 
I think so often that's how 

399
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:11,000
discernment works is like I, I 
even, I think I said to you, 

400
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:16,250
yes, I can't tell you why. 
I just know that this is it's, 

401
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:18,240
this is the right decision. 
I'm glad we have that 

402
00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,260
flexibility like we need that. 
Yeah. 

403
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:26,120
And I think what, where, where 
it becomes true, like true 

404
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:30,970
discernment is not just because 
I said I can't, like I know that

405
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:34,020
this is the right answer and I 
can't tell you why I just this 

406
00:25:34,030 --> 00:25:39,360
is the right thing for you to 
then say back, Yep, OK, great. 

407
00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:42,780
So this is what we'll do. 
And then for it to be, I think 

408
00:25:42,790 --> 00:25:45,160
confirmed. 
As I'm sitting. 

409
00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:46,650
There as you're sitting there 
as. 

410
00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:49,660
Hearing the sermon exactly. 
And I'm like, Oh yeah, that that

411
00:25:49,670 --> 00:25:51,010
was that was the right call. 
Right. 

412
00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:54,320
So all of that together, 
packaged together is actually, 

413
00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:57,320
and this is not to pump our 
tires, but just to give people, 

414
00:25:57,330 --> 00:26:01,200
I think a picture into A, the 
decision that we've made to 

415
00:26:01,210 --> 00:26:05,400
intentionally separate it, to 
not make it feel coercive in any

416
00:26:05,410 --> 00:26:07,860
way. 
But B, also to give people a 

417
00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:10,910
really practical example of like
this is how discernment works 

418
00:26:11,270 --> 00:26:16,420
where there is conversation 
that's more than just one person

419
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:19,740
making a unilateral decision. 
There's confirmation of it. 

420
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,800
And so, you know, I like, I just
think that's a pretty good 

421
00:26:25,810 --> 00:26:29,660
simple illustration of, you 
know, this is what I'm sensing 

422
00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:33,160
from God. 
Yes, OK, agree. 

423
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:37,920
And also we see the fruit of 
that decision and it's not gonna

424
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:41,100
always be that immediate, like 
within the course of three 

425
00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:44,100
hours. 
But like, that's a pretty good 

426
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:49,520
snapshot into I think how I 
envision and want for you, 

427
00:26:49,530 --> 00:26:52,970
listener, to think about 
discernment in your own life, 

428
00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:57,400
not just your own. 
Like want can being sort of 

429
00:26:57,410 --> 00:27:00,740
pseudo confirmed by what you 
think is God speaking to you or 

430
00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:02,940
by somebody else who just wants 
to agree with you. 

431
00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:04,370
Like you have to see all those 
things. 

432
00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:06,820
So yeah, it was fun. 
So that's the one thing that I 

433
00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:08,090
want to say. 
The other thing that I wanted to

434
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:12,560
say too about this is there is a
conversation that we had and I 

435
00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:19,610
don't think it's today about 
tithing and offering and 

436
00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:24,670
generosity and that the the fact
I think those things overlap, 

437
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:28,370
but they are not actually in 
fact the same. 

438
00:27:28,620 --> 00:27:30,650
So I. 
Think I'd love to tease out the 

439
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,690
like and again, not today. 
So this is just stay tuned for 

440
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:38,970
some other time, like how we 
think about, you know, because I

441
00:27:38,980 --> 00:27:40,990
mean, there are lots of people 
that have like differing 

442
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:47,860
opinions on, you know, the 
approach and, and the amount and

443
00:27:47,870 --> 00:27:51,340
the percentage and whether or 
not the New Testament does away 

444
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:53,980
with all of that or whether it 
doesn't. 

445
00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:57,430
Or whether it increases, 
increases it. 

446
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,920
Yeah, absolutely. 
So I think we should have a 

447
00:27:59,930 --> 00:28:05,460
conversation like we should do a
podcast episode on on generosity

448
00:28:05,530 --> 00:28:09,080
and on like on tithing and 
offering. 

449
00:28:09,570 --> 00:28:11,580
Because I think the other the 
other piece that I didn't want 

450
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:13,640
people doing is just conflating 
the two. 

451
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:18,030
Be like, oh, this is only over 
and above, right, Right. 

452
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,130
Because that's actually not, I 
believe what a tithe is. 

453
00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:26,780
It's not just, again, it's not 
the last of what you have over 

454
00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:29,130
and above what I'm going to 
spend on my life over here. 

455
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:32,030
So anyways, yeah, I think it was
the right move. 

456
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,420
And I think what I want people 
to hear from today is the 

457
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:36,560
discernment piece because I 
think that's just really 

458
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,830
practical for your own life. 
And I also think, like, it's the

459
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,880
insider baseball thing that you 
said, you know, we want people 

460
00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:48,380
to know that, like, our heart is
not to make it feel coercive. 

461
00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:51,900
Yeah. 
Out of the sermon into like, OK,

462
00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:53,060
now give. 
Yeah. 

463
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:55,700
But wasn't that a great sermon, 
everyone? 

464
00:28:55,710 --> 00:28:57,600
Can you, like, give in response 
to that? 

465
00:28:57,610 --> 00:28:59,760
You know, like, no, that's so 
icky. 

466
00:28:59,930 --> 00:29:03,040
What what we're doing is giving 
into in response to what God is 

467
00:29:03,050 --> 00:29:04,180
doing. 
Yes. 

468
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,340
That's the big picture. 
So it is a response. 

469
00:29:08,430 --> 00:29:11,760
It's not a response to like, oh,
I like the music extra today or 

470
00:29:11,770 --> 00:29:15,590
that sermon extra convinced me 
to do this or, you know, 

471
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:18,020
whatever. 
It made me feel good or, or made

472
00:29:18,030 --> 00:29:20,890
me feel convicted. 
And now God, yeah. 

473
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:24,470
Giving, giving out of out of 
that level of, like obligation 

474
00:29:24,540 --> 00:29:27,690
or giving out of that sense of 
like you're like, oh, that was 

475
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,390
I'm coerced now. 
Yeah, no, it's not great. 

476
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,090
Exactly. 
We respond. 

477
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:34,990
We respond to what God is doing 
in our lives and in the world 

478
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:38,560
and and we give because we 
believe that God is calling us 

479
00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:40,330
to partner with what he's doing 
in the world. 

480
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:42,820
Yeah, that's the language that 
we use when we introduced the 

481
00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:43,850
offering. 
Exactly. 

482
00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:46,190
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So generosity. 

483
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,820
So yeah, think about it in terms
of big picture, whole life, open

484
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:55,440
handed. 
How is God going to give you 

485
00:29:55,450 --> 00:30:01,680
opportunities to choose to be 
gracious and benefit and extend 

486
00:30:02,350 --> 00:30:06,160
in in extra measure the things 
of the Kingdom to other people 

487
00:30:06,410 --> 00:30:08,940
as opposed to trying to 
accumulate even the good things 

488
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:10,940
of the Kingdom for yourself? 
MMM. 

489
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:14,370
So I think that's the danger. 
If I could just kind of flip to 

490
00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:18,640
that. 
The danger is that we fall into 

491
00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:24,150
the trap of thinking that being 
a follower of Jesus is 

492
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,310
comfortable in the sense of it 
gets me what I want. 

493
00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:30,470
So I think that's one of the 
dangers of comfort. 

494
00:30:30,860 --> 00:30:34,610
I think the other danger of 
comfort is that we're, we think 

495
00:30:34,620 --> 00:30:39,190
that we've arrived or made it 
right, that, that there's not 

496
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,910
more hard work to be done right,
that there's not another 

497
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,470
conversation to have or more 
reconciliation to work toward or

498
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,750
more conviction that God's doing
in your life, like you've not 

499
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,810
made it. 
I've not made it. 

500
00:30:53,150 --> 00:30:56,850
And there are hard conversations
for me to have in my life that 

501
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:59,780
are going to, I believe 
ultimately lead to more life. 

502
00:30:59,860 --> 00:31:03,130
But they're, they're going to 
almost want to say like there 

503
00:31:03,140 --> 00:31:05,690
are moments where it's going to 
suck in the meantime and it's 

504
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:10,460
going to be hard and you're 
going to have to address those 

505
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:14,880
things in your life that Jesus 
wants to root out and change and

506
00:31:14,890 --> 00:31:17,540
shift and, and that work is 
never done. 

507
00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:20,770
Whether you've been a Christian 
for a year or whether you've 

508
00:31:20,780 --> 00:31:24,640
been a Christian for 80 years, 
the the, the work is not done. 

509
00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:29,580
Sorry, right. 
And, and I think that that what 

510
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:35,590
happens over time is we learn to
see the the conviction and 

511
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,530
correction of Jesus like we 
learn to see the judgment of 

512
00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:44,710
Jesus as liberating. 
Because again, This is why I 

513
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,310
think I I like the language 
around practice so much because 

514
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,090
it takes time and you have to do
it over and over again. 

515
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:56,820
And sometimes you can be like, I
got it this time. 

516
00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:01,430
And other times you can be like,
I missed it so incredibly. 

517
00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:07,370
But what what we know is you, 
Jesus is calling you to move and

518
00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:11,880
to continually progress forward.
And that in that movement, 

519
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:13,870
there's going to be challenge, 
there's be conviction, there's 

520
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:21,110
going to be change. 
What I think ultimately I hope 

521
00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:26,590
for, for the listener is that 
you learn to see the fruit of 

522
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,510
what's got of, of what God is 
doing in your life enough that 

523
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:36,800
you realize that the judgment 
and conviction and challenge of 

524
00:32:36,810 --> 00:32:41,650
those hard moments is always for
your good. 

525
00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:48,940
Um, so I think, you know, we, we
want to avoid those painful 

526
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:50,860
things. 
We want God just to like, can 

527
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:53,590
you just please, I mean, I'm 
snapping here like that's the 

528
00:32:53,890 --> 00:32:56,590
noise like in an instant, can 
you take it away? 

529
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,660
Can you deal with this? 
Like, can you just make this 

530
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,510
done? 
Go like be over whatever the 

531
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,660
thing and like we want the easy 
fix. 

532
00:33:06,670 --> 00:33:09,860
Jesus isn't the easy fix. 
Yeah, right. 

533
00:33:09,910 --> 00:33:14,540
But it's like the what you've 
been created for fix. 

534
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:18,740
So it it they're hard. 
They're hard moments in life. 

535
00:33:18,750 --> 00:33:22,260
And like I can think back to 
them in my life. 

536
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:27,320
And again, the thing that I just
want people to know, and here is

537
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,770
there's like wonderful freedom 
on the other side of those hard 

538
00:33:32,780 --> 00:33:37,630
things, and then there'll be 
another hard thing, so. 

539
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,770
It's good. 
OK. 

540
00:33:38,780 --> 00:33:42,310
Do you wanna move on to the next
the next challenge? 

541
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,030
So after that example, after the
the first statement that Jesus 

542
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:54,330
says, says to another, he being 
Jesus said, follow me, but he 

543
00:33:54,340 --> 00:33:59,450
said the other person, Lord, let
me first go and bury my father. 

544
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,610
And Jesus said to him, leave the
dead to bury their own dead. 

545
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:06,630
But As for you go and proclaim 
the Kingdom of God. 

546
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,510
And I don't, you know, want to 
rehash this everything that you 

547
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,580
said in, in the sermon, because 
I mean, if, if you were curious 

548
00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:15,650
about that, go back and listen 
because Grant sort of unpacked 

549
00:34:15,659 --> 00:34:19,330
some of the cultural 
hypotheticals there, the 

550
00:34:19,340 --> 00:34:23,610
potentials of, of what this man 
was really saying, because I, I 

551
00:34:23,620 --> 00:34:27,570
want us to stay, you know, at a 
higher level of, of priority, 

552
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:30,790
right? 
So, so the ultimate thing that 

553
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:39,530
that this man seems to be saying
is my family takes precedence 

554
00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:47,570
right now in all things. 
And and and that is probably one

555
00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:52,630
of the harder things for us to 
wrestle out in especially in our

556
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:55,580
I find in our world, in our 
world today. 

557
00:34:56,739 --> 00:35:01,450
And maybe it's this part of the 
world, particularly I find that 

558
00:35:01,660 --> 00:35:09,190
family, I see this carefully 
family like almost becomes an 

559
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,930
idol sometimes. 
And, and like I, I love my 

560
00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:19,640
family and, and I would do 
anything for my family and like 

561
00:35:19,950 --> 00:35:21,990
that. 
So like just this, this hits 

562
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,930
home, right? 
And I think for you as well, 

563
00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:27,120
right. 
And so when we talk about 

564
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,470
priority and Jesus as priority, 
I, I like the way you framed it.

565
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,570
Maybe we can, this is where we 
can go off a little bit. 

566
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:41,860
Is that when Jesus takes 
priority in our lives, though 

567
00:35:41,870 --> 00:35:44,760
it, it seeps into every area of 
our life, right? 

568
00:35:44,830 --> 00:35:48,420
That all of a sudden I am a 
better husband. 

569
00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:53,120
I'm, I'm a better father. 
I'm, I'm a better, I'm a better 

570
00:35:53,130 --> 00:35:55,680
worker, I'm a better friend, I'm
a better whatever. 

571
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:58,410
So whatever, like whatever your 
priority is, maybe it's, maybe 

572
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:00,820
it's work. 
Maybe it's the pursuit of 

573
00:36:00,890 --> 00:36:03,700
something that is ostensibly 
good. 

574
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:12,740
We need to take a seat back and 
say, OK, is this, is this taking

575
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:14,320
over? 
And then you know, the the 

576
00:36:14,330 --> 00:36:16,780
inverse of like what we need to 
surrender here. 

577
00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:22,040
What do we need to surrender to 
make sure that Jesus is 

578
00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:25,410
preeminent? 
Yeah, that's good. 

579
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:28,750
I think NT right. 
I think it was not right In one 

580
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,380
of the commentaries that we read
through in preparation for this 

581
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:42,200
week says, you know, the irony 
is that the more you prioritize 

582
00:36:42,250 --> 00:36:48,800
Jesus and that living like 
following Jesus, so living all 

583
00:36:48,810 --> 00:36:53,240
of life inside the Kingdom of of
God, the better your other 

584
00:36:53,250 --> 00:36:58,250
relationships become like the 
better your family dynamic and 

585
00:36:58,260 --> 00:37:03,070
relationship is the better 
spouse you can be the better 

586
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:09,760
friend, the better parent. 
So you know, I think that is 

587
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:12,710
that is part of the challenge is
learning. 

588
00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:16,420
I think to trust that the more I
think my language yesterday, 

589
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:21,530
like the more relentlessly I 
pursued Jesus, the better a 

590
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:24,810
father, the better husband I'm 
I'm going to be. 

591
00:37:25,260 --> 00:37:28,510
I think I still AM. 
Yeah. 

592
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,090
This. 
This is what did end up in the 

593
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,330
cutting floor. 
I still wrestle with the 

594
00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:36,050
language of priority. 
Yeah. 

595
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:41,010
And I don't know if that's good 
or bad or some of both. 

596
00:37:41,580 --> 00:37:45,800
But you know, we were talking in
the sermon prep meeting that we 

597
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:52,340
do every week about the idea 
that, you know, you can you can 

598
00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:55,000
sacrifice your family on the 
altar of ministry. 

599
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:58,440
So that's probably not 
prioritizing Jesus. 

600
00:37:58,550 --> 00:38:02,820
That's like workaholism masking 
as faithfulness. 

601
00:38:04,810 --> 00:38:09,400
But, you know, we know that that
happens all the time, that that 

602
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:14,460
pastors do their job and live 
their life in such a way that 

603
00:38:14,690 --> 00:38:18,580
makes their kids walk away from 
not only like ministry, but 

604
00:38:18,670 --> 00:38:21,940
Christianity altogether. 
And there was one example, and 

605
00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:25,380
I, and I won't name the person, 
you can Google it if you want, 

606
00:38:25,390 --> 00:38:28,300
but like there was a, a pastor 
who lived many years ago. 

607
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:31,700
And, and the, the, the story 
goes that this person was so 

608
00:38:32,430 --> 00:38:36,650
quote, UN quote, faithful to 
their, their ministry and, and 

609
00:38:36,660 --> 00:38:41,550
all of their works in that way 
that his spouse kind of walked 

610
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,910
away from that, that, that 
marriage after he had passed 

611
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,850
away. 
And she ended up remarrying and 

612
00:38:46,860 --> 00:38:52,310
was like, I know that he loved 
Jesus, but my, my, my now 

613
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,090
husband, I know that he loves 
me. 

614
00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:57,530
And so she was like describing 
this, this feeling of like, I, 

615
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,490
I'm not, I don't, I didn't feel 
that love from him, which, which

616
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:03,790
is a miss. 
That's a huge miss. 

617
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,190
And, and you could potentially 
conflate when you talk about 

618
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,030
priority, which is why I 
understand the tension of that 

619
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,810
word is if we have like a list, 
we say, well, Jesus at the top 

620
00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:15,330
and then everything else, boom, 
boom, boom, boom, boom, right. 

621
00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:21,300
That could that you could 
imagine that going sideways in a

622
00:39:21,310 --> 00:39:24,060
in in certain personality types 
and. 

623
00:39:24,130 --> 00:39:26,860
Yeah. 
So I think it's not the list. 

624
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:28,880
Like I, I think it's not the 
list. 

625
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:31,040
I would go so far saying this is
going to be judgmental and like 

626
00:39:31,050 --> 00:39:33,420
somebody will judge me after I 
die and that's great. 

627
00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:38,270
But like I would go so far as to
say if if your spouse says of 

628
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,000
you, I know that you love Jesus,
but I don't know that you love 

629
00:39:41,010 --> 00:39:43,900
me, you're not loving Jesus. 
That's fake. 

630
00:39:43,950 --> 00:39:48,320
Yeah, discipleship like that is 
that is religiosity. 

631
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:56,640
That is, you know, I, I don't 
want to question, you know, 

632
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:00,490
this, this dude, salvation like 
that's, that's not what I'm 

633
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:02,250
saying. 
But it does make it makes me 

634
00:40:02,260 --> 00:40:05,160
less inclined to to quote from 
him, to be honest. 

635
00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:07,990
Sure, right. 
You know, and that's not to say 

636
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,510
like each of us is broken in 
different ways. 

637
00:40:11,580 --> 00:40:18,890
And you know, each of us need 
extra grace from Jesus and extra

638
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:23,970
formation in specific areas of 
life, like where there are just 

639
00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:29,880
bent toward be it anger or bent 
toward complacency or like 

640
00:40:29,890 --> 00:40:31,900
disconnection, like 
disconnection. 

641
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:39,500
They're they're like each of us 
will default kind of in our sin 

642
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:46,940
and brokenness toward these sort
of negative sides of 

643
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:48,420
relationship. 
So. 

644
00:40:48,490 --> 00:40:49,660
That's a good counterbalance, 
yeah. 

645
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:50,220
Right. 
Yeah. 

646
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:54,670
But I, I do think, and This is 
why I, I think I've quoted him 

647
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,910
on the podcast already a few 
weeks ago, but I, I really like 

648
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,350
Dave Adamson's language. 
So this is a passer I was 

649
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:08,590
talking to about family and 
early on like in in my ministry 

650
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:17,410
and in my journey as as a dad 
and he used the line, the way I 

651
00:41:17,420 --> 00:41:22,770
love my spouse is the way I love
Jesus. 

652
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,210
The way I love my kids is the 
way I love Jesus. 

653
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:35,720
There is no distinction there. 
And that I think gets at the 

654
00:41:36,030 --> 00:41:38,860
heart of what Jesus is trying to
do. 

655
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:44,080
And like Jizz is saying like 
like that, that is a priority. 

656
00:41:44,930 --> 00:41:50,100
But actually what we need to see
is not this ladder or list of 

657
00:41:50,110 --> 00:41:54,860
disconnected priorities where I 
will spend what happens then, 

658
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:58,000
right? 
Like you have 100% energy, I'm 

659
00:41:58,010 --> 00:42:00,980
going to spend X percent on 
this. 

660
00:42:01,630 --> 00:42:03,600
More than 50% of Jesus is your 
priority. 

661
00:42:03,610 --> 00:42:07,190
Right. 
So like 51% is that is that 

662
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,110
enough or does it just have to 
be the biggest chunk 20% and 

663
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,520
then everything else is less 
than 20%, right, Right. 

664
00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:15,940
It's not, it's not this equation
and it's not simple like that. 

665
00:42:15,950 --> 00:42:23,980
It's not a easy to fix and find 
and do and articulate like Jesus

666
00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:27,860
and then spouse and then kids 
and they're all going to be dis 

667
00:42:27,870 --> 00:42:29,770
and then job and everything can 
be. 

668
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:31,980
Disconnected. 
Feels very disconnected, yeah. 

669
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:36,300
Like everything becomes 
integrated into how you follow 

670
00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:39,880
Jesus. 
So that means I'm going to be a 

671
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:42,930
different spouse, means I am 
going to parent differently, It 

672
00:42:42,940 --> 00:42:46,350
means I'm going to do my job, 
whatever it is differently. 

673
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:54,080
If everything I am doing points 
to how I am loving Jesus or not,

674
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,830
that is going to change the way 
I do the thing. 

675
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,260
Yeah. 
So when I get on the 407 and 

676
00:43:00,270 --> 00:43:04,250
then the 400 and maybe the 401, 
if I, you know, want a spicier 

677
00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:11,590
drive, like the way I am there 
in those moments is the way I am

678
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,910
choosing to love Jesus. 
And, and I don't think that like

679
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:20,370
that doesn't cheapen what it 
means to follow Jesus or who 

680
00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:23,410
Jesus is. 
I think we need to genuinely see

681
00:43:23,420 --> 00:43:30,860
all of life every moment as like
in terms of our discipleship, 

682
00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:34,620
our life in relationship to 
Jesus. 

683
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:37,390
We don't get to cut off a piece 
and be like, OK, God. 

684
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:41,820
So for the next 20 minutes, I am
not following you, right? 

685
00:43:41,830 --> 00:43:45,260
Or the next 45 minutes on this 
highway, I need you just to turn

686
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:49,440
the other way and ignore what 
I'm about to say or think as I'm

687
00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:50,750
getting cut off all over the 
place. 

688
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,620
Like it just does that, that 
that kind of dissociation or 

689
00:43:55,630 --> 00:44:01,670
like division or like tearing 
apart of disintegration. 

690
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,350
Maybe it's the best language for
it is not the life that Jesus 

691
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:06,910
calls you to. 
Hey, are you gonna fail? 

692
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,350
Am I gonna fail? 
Am I gonna say yes, absolutely. 

693
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,950
You're not going to be perfect 
all the time. 

694
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,860
And that is OK. 
But yeah, I think that's that's 

695
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:18,840
the level of integration that I 
do believe we're challenged. 

696
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,470
And then you and then, you know,
we use the language of surrender

697
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:28,640
as as a way to sort of push 
against the, the temptations of 

698
00:44:28,650 --> 00:44:30,760
prioritizing things in, in 
different ways. 

699
00:44:31,110 --> 00:44:33,480
And, and surrender can also be 
challenging as well. 

700
00:44:33,490 --> 00:44:35,860
Like, you know, I, we've talked 
about this before, I think, but 

701
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:38,700
you know, the, the, the first 
thing I think of is that the 

702
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:42,600
hymn I surrender all and, and 
kind of the joke of, you know, 

703
00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:47,400
like it's really more like I 
surrender some, you know, like, 

704
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:50,920
but, but I think that again, 
when we see it through this 

705
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:55,430
different lens of, of it all 
being integrated, it's not I 

706
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,140
surrender all of meaning. 
I'm going to like, I'm going to 

707
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,490
give every single one of my 
possessions and my clothing and 

708
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:07,480
I'm going to give up all of 
these things and I'm going to 

709
00:45:07,490 --> 00:45:10,630
like do all that. 
And and because I I'm told I've 

710
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:16,570
got a sounder at all, right, 
It's rather Jesus in that Jesus 

711
00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:22,870
in my, in my home, in my, in my 
possessions, in my am I willing 

712
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,800
to hold it all loosely right. 
And if that, if Jesus called me 

713
00:45:28,850 --> 00:45:35,610
and said like not on the phone, 
but Jesus called me to make a 

714
00:45:35,620 --> 00:45:40,770
radical life change, maybe to 
move across the ocean, that's 

715
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:43,590
very extreme, but it could be to
move on the other side of town. 

716
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,910
It could be to live an 
intentional community somewhere.

717
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,610
It could be to whatever that was
that I say, OK, Jesus, I don't 

718
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:55,580
get that. 
It's not comfortable, but I want

719
00:45:55,590 --> 00:45:58,940
to surrender it, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think a 

720
00:45:58,950 --> 00:46:07,070
very simple prayer that you can 
pray through is as you. 

721
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:10,310
So I, I like, I don't like 
transitions, actually really 

722
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:15,450
don't like transitions like from
one thing if I'm if I'm invested

723
00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:18,850
in the thing and need to like 
just screeching halt and shift 

724
00:46:18,860 --> 00:46:21,410
to something else like that's 
actually that's challenging. 

725
00:46:21,420 --> 00:46:24,670
Right. 
But I like what what I was going

726
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,090
to say is I like transitions as 
markers for maybe some of these 

727
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:32,760
prayers. 
So as you know, we're recording 

728
00:46:32,770 --> 00:46:35,610
this podcast. 
And while we're recording this 

729
00:46:35,620 --> 00:46:38,610
podcast like it's APA Day for my
kids, they're not in school, so 

730
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:40,930
they're hanging in my office. 
I can hear them giggling a 

731
00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:42,070
little bit, yeah. 
It's great. 

732
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,290
Yeah. 
But you know, we're gonna, we're

733
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:49,980
gonna go from this and I'm gonna
have to shift back into the 

734
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:53,780
like, full on kind of dad mode. 
They're in there and I'm trying 

735
00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:58,120
to get some stuff done. 
So, you know, how am I praying 

736
00:46:58,190 --> 00:47:03,020
as we get up from recording this
and moving into that next piece,

737
00:47:03,250 --> 00:47:06,780
you add whatever you want for 
this next thing. 

738
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:10,980
I'm open to it, right? 
Like, just keep me sensitive and

739
00:47:10,990 --> 00:47:13,100
open to what you're doing in 
these moments. 

740
00:47:13,110 --> 00:47:17,830
Let me not miss it. 
And I think that's because I 

741
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,110
agree. 
So that him I surrender all the 

742
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,630
moving across the ocean, like my
goodness, like massive, these 

743
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,650
massive moves. 
Like a year ago, we moved my 

744
00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:28,000
family not across the ocean, but
to a different city and to a 

745
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:30,070
different church. 
Like those are big moments. 

746
00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:34,830
And yes, they require surrender.
And God might be asking you to 

747
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,460
surrender at that level, but I 
actually think we're where it is

748
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:41,160
most difficult because you can 
get really behind those big 

749
00:47:41,170 --> 00:47:42,980
decisions. 
Like, OK, like, I'm gonna seek 

750
00:47:42,990 --> 00:47:44,350
people's counsel. 
I'm going to talk. 

751
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,010
We're gonna pray about it. 
We're going to make lists. 

752
00:47:46,020 --> 00:47:47,630
We're going to think, we're 
going to explore. 

753
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,080
We're going to do all that. 
We're going to remain curious 

754
00:47:50,090 --> 00:47:52,610
and open. 
And we're going to ask, you 

755
00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:54,920
know, we're gonna make it into 
this big thing. 

756
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:58,760
I think what's harder is the 
daily surrender of the little 

757
00:47:58,770 --> 00:48:01,940
everyday quote. 
Mundane which I don't actually 

758
00:48:01,950 --> 00:48:05,920
believe exist. 
Moments of life, like the 

759
00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:10,670
everyday little moments. 
And because, again, I said at 

760
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,940
the beginning, like, the way you
spend your days is the way you 

761
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:15,770
spend your life. 
And I don't know who I'm quoting

762
00:48:15,780 --> 00:48:17,810
there, but it's not me. 
So, you know, somebody said 

763
00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:18,540
that. 
Yeah. 

764
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,350
And I do think that what we're 
called to is this daily 

765
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:26,770
surrender. 
CS Lewis calls it self surrender

766
00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:29,830
in these smallest of ways is 
actually still the call of 

767
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,920
Jesus. 
So I think where we practice 

768
00:48:31,930 --> 00:48:36,990
this really practically and 
specifically is I think of 

769
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,190
praying that prayer every time 
in your day when you shift to 

770
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,360
something new, just pray. 
God. 

771
00:48:43,370 --> 00:48:45,910
God, would you keep me open to 
whatever it is that you're going

772
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:52,120
to do in these next moments and 
then see what happens. 

773
00:48:52,130 --> 00:48:55,100
Like it's just this constant 
open handed. 

774
00:48:55,210 --> 00:48:57,040
Yeah, I'm turning my hands up 
here. 

775
00:48:57,050 --> 00:49:00,600
Like for those listening, just 
constant open handedness, 

776
00:49:00,810 --> 00:49:01,860
whatever it is. 
Yeah. 

777
00:49:01,870 --> 00:49:06,920
That you want for this next 
season, like 30 minutes or the 

778
00:49:06,930 --> 00:49:10,500
next two hours make, you know, 
would, would you make me open to

779
00:49:10,510 --> 00:49:12,480
it? 
Yeah, it makes me think of of 

780
00:49:12,490 --> 00:49:17,150
yeah, like especially for those 
of us who like to have a very 

781
00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:23,380
concrete plan for our day to 
say, OK, God, would you, would 

782
00:49:23,390 --> 00:49:27,360
you help me to just be a little 
less rigid as I go into this 

783
00:49:27,370 --> 00:49:29,300
morning or this afternoon, 
Right. 

784
00:49:29,310 --> 00:49:33,970
And and and see what God does in
that right? 

785
00:49:35,290 --> 00:49:37,280
Yeah, we talk about holding 
things loosely. 

786
00:49:37,330 --> 00:49:39,140
Yeah, right. 
Like that kind of language is, 

787
00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:40,470
is good. 
Yeah. 

788
00:49:40,510 --> 00:49:44,500
So another really practical 
thing I would say is there's a 

789
00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:48,050
book called Liturgy of the 
Ordinary. 

790
00:49:48,940 --> 00:49:55,050
And literally like the the book 
is a, the goal is to make 

791
00:49:55,340 --> 00:49:58,960
everyday moments feel holy 
again. 

792
00:49:59,610 --> 00:50:02,400
And so to rediscover these 
little practices like when 

793
00:50:02,410 --> 00:50:05,090
you're making breakfast or like 
when literally like making a 

794
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:08,200
piece of toast waiting for it, 
right. 

795
00:50:08,250 --> 00:50:11,470
So like, yeah, yeah, what? 
What do you do? 

796
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,500
Like, I don't know, what do you 
do when you stand there waiting 

797
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:16,760
for a piece of toast to to go 
and depart? 

798
00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:20,610
Like just choosing to slow down 
and saying, OK, I, I just think 

799
00:50:20,620 --> 00:50:24,120
that there are really practical 
ways of using moments in in 

800
00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:29,630
every day to go, OK, God, like, 
I'm open to what you're doing. 

801
00:50:30,340 --> 00:50:32,030
I'm here. 
I'm showing up. 

802
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,050
Like, man, so much of the 
Christian life is just showing 

803
00:50:35,060 --> 00:50:36,100
up. 
Yeah. 

804
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,340
For me, I, you know, doing the 
dishes, I've, there's been, you 

805
00:50:41,350 --> 00:50:43,660
know, a couple times over the 
past month where I've been like,

806
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:46,000
OK, I have a lot of dishes to do
here. 

807
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:50,520
I'm not going to put on a 
podcast, I'm not going to do 

808
00:50:50,530 --> 00:50:53,340
this. 
And I'm just going to like just 

809
00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:56,440
just just nothing. 
And that we don't like that. 

810
00:50:56,970 --> 00:51:00,300
I don't like that because I'm 
left alone with my thoughts and 

811
00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:06,020
God, and that's going to be 
scary sometimes, but but God can

812
00:51:06,070 --> 00:51:08,980
speak pretty powerful things in 
those moments. 

813
00:51:09,070 --> 00:51:11,360
Yeah, yeah. 
So big surrender. 

814
00:51:11,370 --> 00:51:14,860
Yes, absolutely. 
I think for most of us, try 

815
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:17,640
practicing little self 
surrenders. 

816
00:51:17,810 --> 00:51:21,880
I want to do this God. 
What do you want for this next 

817
00:51:22,530 --> 00:51:25,620
half hour? 
Like, I'd really rather turn on 

818
00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:29,580
Netflix and just, like, tune out
for, you know, an hour or two 

819
00:51:29,590 --> 00:51:31,010
before going to bed. 
OK. 

820
00:51:31,020 --> 00:51:32,160
Yeah. 
Like, what do you want for this 

821
00:51:32,170 --> 00:51:35,640
next, like 2 hours? 
Yeah, I'm not saying that it's 

822
00:51:35,650 --> 00:51:38,760
going to change what you 
ultimately end up doing. 

823
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:41,400
Like I don't think it's gonna 
magically make you holy or 

824
00:51:41,410 --> 00:51:49,960
person like, but I just think 
that that practice does change 

825
00:51:51,210 --> 00:51:55,880
you're ultimately your life. 
But it does start small, and it 

826
00:51:55,890 --> 00:51:58,700
can start small. 
And don't feel bad about 

827
00:51:58,710 --> 00:52:04,890
allowing it to just feel like 
those small acts of surrender. 

828
00:52:05,140 --> 00:52:09,770
Yeah, feel I feel like a whole 
bunch of small acts of surrender

829
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,930
turn into large acts of 
faithfulness, right? 

830
00:52:13,980 --> 00:52:18,250
Yeah, Yeah. 
So let's jump in to the the 

831
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:21,530
final one and we're probably 
already way overboard, but just 

832
00:52:21,540 --> 00:52:23,200
buckle in because we're not done
yet. 

833
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:29,550
So the final, the final contact 
point here for these individuals

834
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,150
talking with Jesus. 
Yet another said, I will follow 

835
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,470
you, Lord, but let me first say 
farewell to those at my home. 

836
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,090
And Jesus said to him, no one 
who puts his hand to the plow 

837
00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:45,270
and looks back is fit for the 
Kingdom of God. 

838
00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:49,250
And this is someone who, I mean,
you describe this as the 

839
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:53,920
challenge of, of history that 
the person is, is looking back 

840
00:52:54,100 --> 00:53:00,030
rather than looking forward to 
what God is now doing right. 

841
00:53:00,620 --> 00:53:04,790
And, and you described a little 
bit of the, the challenge for, I

842
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,970
mean, obviously us as 
individuals where we can look 

843
00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:11,390
back at a better season in our 
life and think to ourselves, and

844
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:14,470
the best is not yet to come. 
The best is already happened. 

845
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,490
You know, God worked then in my 
life and he's not working now. 

846
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:20,150
That's kind of a negative 
attitude. 

847
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:23,490
And we can do that as churches 
as well, right? 

848
00:53:23,500 --> 00:53:32,080
That we, we have in our head 
some some picture of a golden 

849
00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:37,820
era where God was most at work 
and that we will, you know, 

850
00:53:37,830 --> 00:53:43,800
sometimes our attempts to 
recapture that can, can be 

851
00:53:44,490 --> 00:53:50,360
nostalgia driven rather than 
asking ourselves, God, what are 

852
00:53:50,370 --> 00:53:51,860
you up to? 
What, what, what are, what do 

853
00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:54,490
you want for us? 
And, and that you know that, 

854
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:59,930
that you described it as curious
obedience of we want to ask God,

855
00:53:59,940 --> 00:54:02,110
like what, what are you doing in
this next season? 

856
00:54:02,220 --> 00:54:05,510
In my life in, in, in our life 
as a church. 

857
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,500
And yes, maybe, maybe it may be 
trying some of those old things 

858
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:11,170
from the past again. 
And then it may be in a new and 

859
00:54:11,180 --> 00:54:14,210
fresh way, but maybe it's a 
totally new thing and we got to 

860
00:54:14,220 --> 00:54:17,530
be ready for that. 
And that's scary, but it's cool.

861
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:20,070
Yeah. 
Yeah, I think as a like, as 

862
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,950
churches, we do this. 
Churches are churches can be so,

863
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,790
yeah, so stuck in this habit and
pattern. 

864
00:54:26,170 --> 00:54:29,390
And This is why I love that. 
Like, there's only so much 

865
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,710
history here for us as a church.
Like what I want us to remember 

866
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:36,950
is the church planting spirit. 
Like, what I want us to remember

867
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,250
is not the method, but the 
commitment to the mission. 

868
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,730
And again, I'm quoting people 
here like this is not my 

869
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:45,590
language. 
But I do think when we look back

870
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:52,010
as a church, what we are, what 
we are fondly remembering is the

871
00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:58,320
outcome of the mission, right? 
Is God moving and doing stuff in

872
00:54:58,330 --> 00:55:02,020
our lifetime? 
But then what we idolize are the

873
00:55:02,030 --> 00:55:03,680
methods. 
Yeah. 

874
00:55:03,730 --> 00:55:07,920
Because we think that, oh, in 
order to recreate that moment, 

875
00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:15,400
to use alliteration, we need to 
we need, we need to re we need 

876
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:19,650
to revisit the methods or we 
need to really like, we need to 

877
00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:24,200
hold the method is what we hold 
forward when really it's like we

878
00:55:24,210 --> 00:55:26,430
need to be committed to the 
mission of the church. 

879
00:55:26,940 --> 00:55:30,470
The methods will always change, 
so I think. 

880
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,420
We complete they have since the 
very beginning of the Church. 

881
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:36,100
Absolutely. 
So you know, for a long time an 

882
00:55:36,110 --> 00:55:39,420
organ was the primary 
instrument. 

883
00:55:39,490 --> 00:55:42,660
Gregorian chants before that. 
The organ was called the Devil's

884
00:55:42,670 --> 00:55:44,600
Instrument when it was first 
introduced. 

885
00:55:44,690 --> 00:55:48,300
Like people fought. 
Churches were divided, like 

886
00:55:48,310 --> 00:55:50,880
literally split over whether to 
have an organ. 

887
00:55:50,970 --> 00:55:54,490
There were churches that had 
multiple services and so they 

888
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:58,940
put an organ on a lift and they 
would lower it into the basement

889
00:55:58,990 --> 00:56:00,540
so that people didn't have to 
see it. 

890
00:56:00,610 --> 00:56:02,530
Is it like like Phantom of the 
Opera is like that? 

891
00:56:02,540 --> 00:56:04,090
I feel like that, that vibe of 
like the. 

892
00:56:04,100 --> 00:56:06,630
I think there's the organ being 
low, like below. 

893
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,590
Yeah, it's like. 
So I like like. 

894
00:56:09,940 --> 00:56:11,970
We will always fight over 
methods. 

895
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,230
I'm like when drums got 
introduced into a. 

896
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,790
Church absolutely. 
So you know, I think what ends 

897
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,430
up happening is we look back and
we idolize what God was doing. 

898
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,370
Like we go, hey, this was great 
and it was great. 

899
00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:25,830
That's the that's not the 
problem. 

900
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,350
Like that's, that's the gift of 
it. 

901
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:33,930
But it becomes the problem when 
when we say, you know, wasn't it

902
00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:36,630
great back then? 
Well, what got us there? 

903
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:40,690
So let's do those things and 
hope that it'll create a fresh 

904
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,870
movement of God's spirit. 
And what ends up happening 

905
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,390
always is you miss what God is 
doing right now. 

906
00:56:49,740 --> 00:56:54,870
And so that's why I think it's 
so dangerous to look back as a 

907
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,260
church. 
It's good to celebrate. 

908
00:56:58,310 --> 00:57:00,360
It's good to honor and recognize
man. 

909
00:57:00,370 --> 00:57:05,940
We stand on the shoulders of 
faithful people, but they didn't

910
00:57:05,950 --> 00:57:08,680
get like, they didn't see God 
move in their lifetime because 

911
00:57:08,690 --> 00:57:13,080
they asked, well, what was God 
doing? 

912
00:57:14,010 --> 00:57:18,160
You know, the generation before,
hmm, They got there for us 

913
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:19,620
immediately. 
They got there because they 

914
00:57:19,630 --> 00:57:21,260
planted something new. 
Hmm. 

915
00:57:22,980 --> 00:57:25,160
And so God, like God, did a new 
thing. 

916
00:57:25,710 --> 00:57:30,100
This church was planted. 
And so I think, yeah, we need 

917
00:57:30,110 --> 00:57:34,600
to. 
We did not look at methods. 

918
00:57:35,350 --> 00:57:37,450
We need to stay committed to the
mission. 

919
00:57:38,140 --> 00:57:41,490
With that, we need to move 
forward and, and I, I, I want 

920
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:45,330
people to hear this, um, how 
like it? 

921
00:57:45,340 --> 00:57:49,450
Just how sad would it be if we 
missed what God was doing in our

922
00:57:49,460 --> 00:57:54,140
moment because we were more 
caught up with what He did in a 

923
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:56,750
previous moment? 
And I think there's always 

924
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,360
something interesting about, 
about looking at, you know, 

925
00:58:00,370 --> 00:58:04,380
within those methods that worked
really well in like the, you 

926
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:07,630
know, whether it was a method 
that worked really well 1700, 

927
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,900
you know, 7 in the 1700s or a 
method that worked really well 

928
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:16,370
in the 80s, right? 
That you can sometimes look 

929
00:58:16,420 --> 00:58:19,800
rather than at the specific 
thing you start looking like 

930
00:58:19,810 --> 00:58:23,230
what was what was underneath, 
what was like the undergirding 

931
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,680
factor there, right? 
Where, where you can look at, 

932
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,870
you know, say something like 
the, the shift. 

933
00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:34,510
I mean, these worship as an 
example, like the shift from 

934
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,950
hymns only to sort of some of 
the praise chorus type things 

935
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,540
from like Maranatha and Vineyard
and and those sorts of those 

936
00:58:43,550 --> 00:58:46,700
sorts of movements happening in 
like the 70s and 80s. 

937
00:58:46,750 --> 00:58:48,960
Yeah. 
And and see where God was 

938
00:58:49,070 --> 00:58:53,580
amazingly at work. 
That doesn't mean doesn't mean 

939
00:58:53,590 --> 00:58:58,360
we need or must sing all of 
those songs from the 70s or 80s.

940
00:58:58,370 --> 00:59:01,100
Some of them maybe will bust out
every now and then. 

941
00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:05,760
But reality is a lot of them 
sound very outdated and cheesy. 

942
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:12,680
Sorry, sorry for any 170 sorry. 
But like this reality is like, I

943
00:59:12,690 --> 00:59:16,120
mean, I'm a 90s kid and, and 9, 
like I would say the same thing 

944
00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:18,180
for some of like the old 
Hillsong stuff from the 90s, 

945
00:59:18,190 --> 00:59:23,700
like, yeah, super cheesy. 
And yet you, you see underneath 

946
00:59:23,710 --> 00:59:28,500
that the way that God was, was 
moving among the churches and 

947
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:31,000
people. 
And it's not about the 

948
00:59:31,010 --> 00:59:34,540
particular song. 
It's it's about the the the 

949
00:59:34,550 --> 00:59:37,640
spirit of what God was doing 
within those movements. 

950
00:59:37,650 --> 00:59:39,100
Yeah. 
So you know what method I think 

951
00:59:39,110 --> 00:59:43,190
we should always only ever be 
married to is prayer. 

952
00:59:44,010 --> 00:59:46,460
Yeah, because I think that like 
when I look at. 

953
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:50,520
So if you were to take the 
revivals, for example, which is 

954
00:59:50,530 --> 00:59:53,100
just even like to talk about 
what's happening in our own 

955
00:59:53,110 --> 00:59:59,120
lifetime, like I got to hang 
with 30 university age students 

956
00:59:59,330 --> 01:00:02,590
at the university here in town. 
And I ought to tell you, man, 

957
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,960
like I have, I don't know that 
I've been as optimistic for the 

958
01:00:06,970 --> 01:00:14,020
church as like in recent times 
as I was leaving that, that 

959
01:00:14,030 --> 01:00:15,600
gathering. 
That's cool. 

960
01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:21,180
So like God's doing something in
the that generation. 

961
01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:23,850
So Gen. 
Z, Genz, whatever you want to 

962
01:00:23,860 --> 01:00:26,590
call them, right? 
University age and and beyond. 

963
01:00:26,660 --> 01:00:29,550
A little bit, but like you and I
aren't part of that generation 

964
01:00:29,730 --> 01:00:33,740
and I, I don't know when it 
happened that I was like the old

965
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:37,880
guy in the room, but four 
pastors there and I was one of 

966
01:00:37,890 --> 01:00:42,220
the old guys and I just got to 
sit there and cheer them on. 

967
01:00:42,570 --> 01:00:45,920
And like that God is doing 
something incredible in that 

968
01:00:45,930 --> 01:00:48,090
generation. 
And I don't know what it is or 

969
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:50,990
where it's going to go and where
it will lead, but like something

970
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,200
is happening. 
So to name that throughout 

971
01:00:54,210 --> 01:00:59,920
church history, I don't think, I
mean, I think it would be a very

972
01:00:59,930 --> 01:01:04,420
hard argument to make that you 
see anything like that 

973
01:01:04,430 --> 01:01:07,940
happening, any sort of revival 
that you can't trace back to a 

974
01:01:07,950 --> 01:01:09,600
group of people praying. 
Yeah. 

975
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:12,970
And so I think about some of 
the, yeah, some of the revivals 

976
01:01:12,980 --> 01:01:19,420
through church history, some of 
the moments where God did the 

977
01:01:19,430 --> 01:01:24,920
work of revival in a generation.
I think you can probably trace 

978
01:01:24,930 --> 01:01:27,570
it back to a group of people 
getting together and say, hey, 

979
01:01:27,580 --> 01:01:31,090
we are going to pray and we're 
going to pray, and we're going 

980
01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:34,160
to pray. 
And nobody might know, but we 

981
01:01:34,170 --> 01:01:38,300
are so deeply committed to this 
that, you know, those are the 

982
01:01:38,310 --> 01:01:42,970
things that spark renewal and 
revival. 

983
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:46,800
And so often it's a group of 
Christians who get together like

984
01:01:46,810 --> 01:01:48,270
it. 
Yeah. 

985
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,770
And, and meet in someone's home,
right? 

986
01:01:51,780 --> 01:01:55,090
Like, it's, it's, it's, it's not
something that's like declared 

987
01:01:55,100 --> 01:01:58,990
from the pulpit. 
This is what's happening. 

988
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,140
Get ready. 
I don't think, yeah, that's the 

989
01:02:01,150 --> 01:02:04,790
tension is we don't just get to 
like declare revival, No, like 

990
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,770
revival. 
Like, I mean, not that we get to

991
01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:12,270
control God and how God moves 
and acts, but it it is most, 

992
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,030
yeah, most frequently, you're 
right, It is. 

993
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,230
It is like just people gathering
and praying and just God showing

994
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,290
up in a profound way. 
Yeah, yeah, the dig deep longing

995
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:27,680
so OK, so yeah, curious 
obedience. 

996
01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:31,770
And and like, I think about that
again for for our church, like 

997
01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:35,660
that's so, so, so important that
we are just we remain just 

998
01:02:35,710 --> 01:02:39,160
reflective on on God. 
What are you doing in this 

999
01:02:39,170 --> 01:02:42,440
season in this moment? 
And like, I can, I can say that,

1000
01:02:42,510 --> 01:02:44,930
you know, earnestly, truly right
now, like God, what are you 

1001
01:02:44,940 --> 01:02:46,150
doing in this season, in this 
moment? 

1002
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,800
Like we had, you know, like 25 
plus people out like a newcomer 

1003
01:02:49,810 --> 01:02:51,900
is lunch yesterday. 
Was that the number I? 

1004
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:53,640
Didn't I? 
I just did a really rough 

1005
01:02:53,950 --> 01:02:56,730
estimate that didn't include the
kids that were kind of now, you 

1006
01:02:56,740 --> 01:02:58,130
know, running around out 
elsewhere. 

1007
01:02:58,180 --> 01:03:01,230
But it was just like beautiful. 
Like, yeah, for a Church of 

1008
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,740
like, kind of like 200 ish on a 
Sunday, like 25 people. 

1009
01:03:04,750 --> 01:03:06,490
And I know that there was a 
whole bunch of others who are 

1010
01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:10,510
new that we're not there, you 
know, like, God, what are you 

1011
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:11,810
doing? 
Like, this is cool. 

1012
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:14,230
This is awesome. 
Like how can we capture this 

1013
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,830
moment and, and, and just 
partner with what you are doing 

1014
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:19,930
in this moment? 
Yeah. 

1015
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,190
I think that's the that's the 
curious obedience piece, right? 

1016
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:31,230
Because what, what fear would 
say is, well, what if, what if 

1017
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,640
this change demands something of
me? 

1018
01:03:34,110 --> 01:03:38,360
What if, what if following where
God is leading makes me to go 

1019
01:03:38,370 --> 01:03:41,740
back to #1 uncomfortable, Yeah. 
What if? 

1020
01:03:41,780 --> 01:03:45,730
What if I lose influence or 
authority? 

1021
01:03:45,740 --> 01:03:48,160
Or what if I lose control of the
thing that's happening? 

1022
01:03:48,170 --> 01:03:50,310
What if I can't define? 
It I don't know as many people 

1023
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:51,750
as I used to. 
There's all these new people. 

1024
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,610
Where do they all come? 
From what if I start to feel 

1025
01:03:53,620 --> 01:03:55,850
like the new person or like an 
outsider? 

1026
01:03:55,860 --> 01:04:01,530
Like, you can see how fear leads
you down those roads fairly 

1027
01:04:01,540 --> 01:04:09,160
quickly, and the end of those 
roads is cynicism and 

1028
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:10,830
bitterness. 
Yeah, right. 

1029
01:04:11,010 --> 01:04:17,100
Because it's cynicism. 
Cynicism says God must not be 

1030
01:04:17,110 --> 01:04:19,800
doing this because I don't like 
it, right? 

1031
01:04:19,810 --> 01:04:24,280
Or for whatever reason, but like
it must not be God because it's 

1032
01:04:24,290 --> 01:04:27,400
not what has happened in the 
past. 

1033
01:04:27,630 --> 01:04:31,220
Or we didn't plan for it or we 
didn't do it, or we don't 

1034
01:04:31,230 --> 01:04:34,000
understand it or we don't like 
it, especially that one. 

1035
01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:37,680
We don't like it. 
Like cynicism is the God's not 

1036
01:04:37,690 --> 01:04:41,710
doing it. 
Bitterness is the I don't want 

1037
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,000
to be a part of it. 
Yeah. 

1038
01:04:44,050 --> 01:04:46,280
Even if it is. 
Hmm. 

1039
01:04:46,730 --> 01:04:48,160
Because I don't like what's 
happening. 

1040
01:04:48,170 --> 01:04:53,400
There's no place for me here. 
So curiosity and obedience and 

1041
01:04:53,410 --> 01:04:59,200
curious obedience, I think. 
Is that another? 

1042
01:04:59,210 --> 01:05:03,380
Another word that I had thought 
about using is wonder. 

1043
01:05:03,460 --> 01:05:06,320
Hmm. 
So I think it's this, this 

1044
01:05:06,330 --> 01:05:10,380
constant practice of saying God,
what are you doing? 

1045
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:13,460
And with it, I would say, pray 
this prayer. 

1046
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,780
God, how amazing it is that I 
get to witness it in my 

1047
01:05:19,790 --> 01:05:21,150
lifetime. 
Hmm. 

1048
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:23,690
So I don't understand it. 
I don't know what it is you're 

1049
01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:24,860
doing. 
I don't know where it lands, 

1050
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:27,720
like where it ends. 
Not quite sure my role in it. 

1051
01:05:27,950 --> 01:05:30,500
Happy for you to reveal all of 
those things to me. 

1052
01:05:30,670 --> 01:05:33,920
God, thanks that I get to 
witness this in my lifetime. 

1053
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:36,880
How cool. 
And I think particular they're 

1054
01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:43,500
touching on, on Gen. 
Z and, and this trend of, of 

1055
01:05:43,570 --> 01:05:48,560
there, like when you see church 
attendance stats, it, it's 

1056
01:05:48,660 --> 01:05:51,630
spiking, you know, it's, it's 
with millennials and Gen. 

1057
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,570
Gen. 
X, it's, it's like, it's, it's 

1058
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:55,550
plummeting a little. 
And then with Gen. 

1059
01:05:55,560 --> 01:06:00,130
Z it's spiking, right. 
And, and it's like that is going

1060
01:06:00,140 --> 01:06:06,830
to be a very real tension for 
for you and I as they emerge as 

1061
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:11,310
as full-fledged adults in the 
life of the Church of like they,

1062
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,490
they may see things very 
differently. 

1063
01:06:13,660 --> 01:06:19,070
And, and, and it's like we need 
to remain open to how God is 

1064
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,360
going to work in that 
generation, right? 

1065
01:06:23,370 --> 01:06:24,810
Yeah. 
So just like very, very 

1066
01:06:24,820 --> 01:06:27,730
practically speaking, like that 
is something that we are going 

1067
01:06:27,740 --> 01:06:31,610
to have to grapple with in, in 
the next couple years really. 

1068
01:06:31,940 --> 01:06:35,400
And and it's why like I love 
this, but some of our staff are 

1069
01:06:35,410 --> 01:06:37,080
genes, Ed. 
Yeah, right. 

1070
01:06:37,090 --> 01:06:42,160
Like some of our staff are, are 
inside of that generation, then 

1071
01:06:42,170 --> 01:06:45,440
that demographic. 
But I do think one of the 

1072
01:06:45,450 --> 01:06:49,260
challenges becomes, yeah, how do
you steward leadership and 

1073
01:06:49,270 --> 01:06:51,890
authority? 
Well, in terms of releasing the 

1074
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,750
the next generation of leaders 
to actually lead? 

1075
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,390
Yeah. 
And not just say, you tell me 

1076
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,790
the good ideas that your 
generation likes and then we'll 

1077
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,990
do them. 
But to say, hey, be free to 

1078
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:07,660
lead, like go and do the thing, 
you know, yeah, release to go 

1079
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:11,860
and lead in the ways that are 
gonna reach that generation and 

1080
01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:13,400
beyond. 
And then I think of our kids 

1081
01:07:13,410 --> 01:07:17,240
generation. 
So I go Gen. alpha, like man, 

1082
01:07:17,250 --> 01:07:19,020
we're waiting in the waters. 
Like, I don't know when it 

1083
01:07:19,030 --> 01:07:23,200
happened, but you and I became 
like middle-aged, that guy. 

1084
01:07:23,210 --> 01:07:25,700
I got more Gray than you, man, 
like hairy. 

1085
01:07:25,770 --> 01:07:30,140
So it like I think every 
generation has had to wrestle 

1086
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:35,930
this out of releasing, releasing
control and not making the past 

1087
01:07:35,940 --> 01:07:41,230
an idle again. 
I think what I want for people 

1088
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,760
to learn is that prayer of yeah,
curious obedience. 

1089
01:07:45,810 --> 01:07:48,600
God, what are you doing and what
are you calling me to do in it? 

1090
01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:51,820
Yeah, because you're not done. 
Like if you're not dead, you're 

1091
01:07:51,830 --> 01:07:53,320
not. 
Done, We have that. 

1092
01:07:53,330 --> 01:07:56,370
That's the great thing is that I
think we will have so much to 

1093
01:07:56,380 --> 01:07:58,650
offer. 
You know, in the same way that I

1094
01:07:58,660 --> 01:08:02,190
look to like my, your, you know,
your dad, your dad's a pastor 

1095
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,670
and my father-in-law was a 
pastor. 

1096
01:08:04,820 --> 01:08:07,130
And it's like we, we often will 
look to them and say like, Hey, 

1097
01:08:07,140 --> 01:08:10,620
we're trying to wrestle this 
out, like and, and like, do you 

1098
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:13,610
have any wisdom or input for us?
Because they've been through so 

1099
01:08:13,620 --> 01:08:16,750
much over the decades, right. 
And so like, there is always 

1100
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,910
more to offer. 
Right. 

1101
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,130
But yeah, like, it excites me to
think about like having to 

1102
01:08:23,140 --> 01:08:26,300
wrestle with some of those 
thoughts of like, we gotta we 

1103
01:08:26,310 --> 01:08:28,870
gotta figure out how we're 
relinquishing control and 

1104
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,870
relinquishing. 
So surrendering it's going to be

1105
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,220
uncomfortable. 
All the things and This is why 

1106
01:08:35,229 --> 01:08:37,670
you just, you preach to 
yourself. 1st that's great. 

1107
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:42,450
So this was like, OK, this is 
probably one of our longest 

1108
01:08:42,460 --> 01:08:44,010
ones. 
I don't have I haven't seen the 

1109
01:08:44,020 --> 01:08:45,649
time on it yet, but it's 
probably one of our longest 

1110
01:08:45,660 --> 01:08:49,140
podcasts. 
So if you are still with us and 

1111
01:08:49,149 --> 01:08:51,680
you hung out with us, this was, 
I think, one of the muddiest 

1112
01:08:51,689 --> 01:08:55,500
ones that we've dealt with. 
Like there's just a lot of 

1113
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:59,740
there's a lot of stuff in this 
passage that we have to grapple 

1114
01:08:59,750 --> 01:09:02,640
with and just a lot of stuff in 
our real lives for us to wrestle

1115
01:09:02,649 --> 01:09:05,359
with. 
And so congratulations, if 

1116
01:09:05,370 --> 01:09:09,160
you've stuck it out. 
We are going to continue to 

1117
01:09:09,170 --> 01:09:10,770
wrestle this out. 
Yeah. 

1118
01:09:10,819 --> 01:09:13,569
And and you have something. 
No, I just, I just think the 

1119
01:09:13,580 --> 01:09:15,170
best is yet to come. 
Amen. 

1120
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,819
Yeah. 
So we'll leave, we'll leave it 

1121
01:09:17,830 --> 01:09:20,229
there for today. 
And if you have any questions, 

1122
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,430
as always, you can send those 
questions to questions at 

1123
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,750
courtrightchurch.org. 
And we will do our best to 

1124
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,069
incorporate that into our our 
weekly rhythms as we record 

1125
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,880
these these podcasts. 
For now, have a fantastic week. 

1126
01:09:33,890 --> 01:09:34,779
We'll see you next time.