1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Grab your pre workout and turn up that volume. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,040 It is time for a new episode of the Power Lifters Den with your 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,200 host Cam Smith. Hello everybody, Welcome back to 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,000 another episode of the Power Lifters Den. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,480 I'm your host Cam Smith and today I want to bring on someone 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,560 who's sort of a legend in the multiply space powerlifting, Dr. 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,120 Derek Wilcox. Why don't you introduce 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,160 yourself? Well I don't think I've heard 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,640 legend before, so thanks for that. 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,320 Not sure it's justified, but I'll. 11 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,960 I'll take it for today. Yeah. 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,520 Derek Wilcox, North Carolina. I competed in the pro ranks for 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,440 low over decade. 15 years total experience in powerlifting 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,640 before I retired several years ago. 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,600 I was born with joint dysplasia. That kind of cut my career 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,600 short. So if I wanted to be able to 17 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,720 walk and do anything else, I kind of had to stop lifting 18 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,160 weights with commas in them. Mostly known for being the 19 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,240 lightest guy to squat 1000 lbs. You know, about a decade or so 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:03,280 ago now and former world record squat 935 lbs at 181. 21 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,440 And yeah, got a PhD in sport Physiology and performance. 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,120 Sport scientist by trade. I'm a coach with Renaissance 23 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,240 Superior ization. Have been also for about 10 24 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,880 years. Married another coach from 25 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,080 Renaissance. She's pretty amazing herself 26 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,400 with a bunch of jiu jitsu World Championships and MMA World 27 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,680 Championships and championships of kicking my ass. 28 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,680 Yeah. So that's, that's we'll get 29 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,360 started a little bit about your your educational background. 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,400 I know you have like the PhD and you've been competing for years. 31 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,440 So I kind of want to know kind of when those two things kind of 32 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,560 align to kind of become what you are. 33 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:46,400 Well, honestly, the academic side of everything that I went 34 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,800 through in my career was completely self-serving because 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,240 I wanted to learn as much as I could about Physiology and 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,520 anatomy and bio mechanics that I could become the best strength 37 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,320 athlete that I could. And I was primarily in 38 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,240 powerlifting. I did compete in some strongman 39 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,160 shows and Olympic weightlifting and Highland games still to this 40 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,800 day off and on. So I I enjoy all of it. 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,600 But powerlifting is really where I excelled that. 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,560 So I focused on that more and that was also where my goals 43 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,280 were when I was a kid. I was in high school carrying 44 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,360 around an all time world's records list, and you know that 45 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:27,080 that world records list from Michael Soon was void of any 46 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,080 excuses. It was the body weights and the 47 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,040 heaviest weights lifted for each lift. 48 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,320 There didn't matter. The Federation didn't matter the 49 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,560 circumstances didn't matter what their mother's maiden name was. 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,720 It was just a number. And that's what I really loved 51 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,160 about it. And that's the whole reason I 52 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,960 chased the numbers that I did. It didn't make any sense for me 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,080 to to compete unequipped. I did that once just for fun 54 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,880 because I got got to lifting the meat for free. 55 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:58,680 And but I mean, I, I had heavy unequipped and numbers are 56 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,240 minimally equipped. I usually say if you put a belt 57 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,760 on, you're equipped. Sorry, unless you're completely 58 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,760 butt naked with a bar that was made in 1937, you're you're 59 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,440 equipped. But but yeah, I finished 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,040 exercise science courses and my undergrad ended up graduating 61 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,160 with a religious studies degree, but I still got all the 62 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,440 prerequisites to go get my masters in sport kinesiology, 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,600 which was the East Tennessee state. 64 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:29,680 And then I went on to get my PhD there as well as sport 65 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,000 Physiology, an amazing sport science program. 66 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,280 I could never say enough good things about that program. 67 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,280 They are there to fix the big issues and strength and 68 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,640 conditioning that most of us who have experience in the way room 69 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,960 see in strength and conditioning, especially on the 70 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,720 collegial level and and youth athletes as well. 71 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,120 So shout out to them. Yeah, that's great. 72 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,840 So kind of going into your PHDA little bit, I know obviously a 73 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,800 lot of them are research driven. You have to spend time with a 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,840 lot of other PHC members and things like that. 75 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,440 Maybe tell us a little bit about what your PhD studies entailed. 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,680 Well, the biggest thing, I guess, for powerlifting 77 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,920 relations is my dissertation. I worked with a disabled 78 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,120 powerlifter, did a case study on him a couple times actually, and 79 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:23,400 it was measuring the effects of waving intensities during 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,160 mesocycles or blocks. And we measured his bench press 81 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,120 velocity because that's the only event they have in the same 82 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,080 powerlifting or pair of powerlifting, which is coming up 83 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,080 soon in France. Everybody go check out that the 84 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,360 the numbers lifted there, especially in the lower weight 85 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,200 class categories are astronomical. 86 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,080 But we were able to get him in really good shape. 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,440 And we monitored his bench press velocities before every push 88 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,320 day, which was twice a week. And we also measured his grip 89 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,600 strength on a grip dynamometer and before every single session 90 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,680 the exact same way, the same warm ups every single time, the 91 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,400 same everything just for reliability purposes. 92 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,960 And we were able to find really consistent trends on his ability 93 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,120 to perform going down after heavier weeks. 94 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,680 And then also the recovery timeline after the heaviest 95 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,680 weeks of the block. It was it always took longer 96 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,240 than most people realize. It would take up to two weeks 97 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,760 for him to come back actually to baseline after a really hard 98 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,960 training. Excuse me, but yeah, he, he 99 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,640 dropped 30 lbs. He increased his bench press. 100 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,640 His range of motion increased just because of the weight loss. 101 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,560 So he was moving the same weight farther. 102 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,680 And in bench press that makes a really huge difference. 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,120 It was, it was really successful in general. 104 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,760 It was it was a cool deal. Yeah. 105 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,680 That's a really cool study. And I think with kind of the 106 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,440 scope of powerlifting and kind of if you kind of translate into 107 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,520 like a clinical trial or maybe like a case study, like you 108 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,520 said, they're very few and far between in the war. 109 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,240 The powerlifting, there's a lot of Sports Studies and just 110 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,280 different sports and things like that and even like 111 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,160 weightlifting. But I feel like powerlifting is 112 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,640 one of those areas that's often neglected in that field. 113 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,600 Yeah, there's just not a giant market for, it's not an Olympic 114 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,480 sports kind of a niche thing. So I had the resources and the 115 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,440 time and a wonderful team around me that really was into that. 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,240 So I was, I was very blessed with those people, especially 117 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,400 because I was competing during grad, grad school. 118 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:35,560 That lightest 1000 LB squat that I did was during my master's 119 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,560 program, and I was competing all the way through up until about 120 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,280 the last year of my PhD. Yeah, they they were really 121 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:43,840 cool. It's great to be in a sports 122 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:46,720 science program as an athlete because they respect what you're 123 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,440 doing and they support it. Yeah, definitely. 124 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,320 I feel like for me, like I did my masters in bio mechanics and 125 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,840 luckily enough for me, it wasn't, it was actually probably 126 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:57,120 the easiest year of college for me. 127 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,760 So it didn't really get in the way of anything. 128 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,280 And at the time, I was still playing football. 129 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,000 So powerlifting wasn't necessarily in my like big 130 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,320 scope. Like I was still starting to 131 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,680 compete and I was training hard because I mean, every football 132 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,080 player's favorite part of football is actually lifting. 133 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,200 And if they tell you otherwise, they're lying. 134 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,120 But yeah, so I do know people who have continued on further 135 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,200 education, have done their PhD, and I just know that it can be 136 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,640 intense and long hours and it could be stressful. 137 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,120 So maybe what were some of the things that helped you be able 138 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,120 to compete at such a high level with balancing that sort of? 139 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,760 Program. Well, I tried to to do my best 140 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,400 to pick competitions that were in the less busy season, the 141 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,520 beginning and the end of all the semesters. 142 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,520 Masters and PhD were absolutely madness because we had athlete 143 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280 monitoring projects going on with every single team that our 144 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,080 program worked with, which was over a dozen. 145 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,520 So we've got people coming in for pre and post semester 146 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,600 athlete monitoring assessment. So we bring all those teams in 147 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,200 and they all go through our lab doing isometric mid thigh pull 148 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,600 testing and jump testing. And we have to have people doing 149 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,520 hydration and it's, it's a giant team effort. 150 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,360 And on top of all those end of semester projects that you have 151 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,880 to finish up, you also have to go and go into the lab at 5:00 152 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,600 AM to start calibrating for those lab tests as well. 153 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,080 Yeah. And now I guess my, my next 154 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,720 question would be from, from that point from once you had 155 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,240 your PhD, maybe from just freshly out of school to kind of 156 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,960 now, what are some of the biggest things that you've 157 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,080 applied to your coaching and your powerlifting career itself 158 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,280 from school? It's a really good question. 159 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:52,120 Most of it is taking the knowledge from the education, 160 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,880 understanding the nuts and bolts and how the gears turn in the In 161 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,400 the background. It's a white box approach. 162 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,120 If you've heard the white and black box approaches, the black 163 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,560 box approach for those who are listening is basically what I 164 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:11,200 call old ball coach syndrome, where we have an input of, well 165 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,920 this is what my coach did in 1978 and we won the state 166 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,320 championship. And if we do that now, we should 167 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,520 win a state championship on the other side of this and don't 168 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,160 know why it works. It just works. 169 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,280 And then the white box approach is actually, it's not white. 170 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,960 It's transparent to where you can actually understand what's 171 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,920 going on during that process and you can make more educated 172 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,440 decisions and informed decisions, hopefully that still 173 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,720 result in the state championship, but you can maybe 174 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,440 save some injuries or maybe enhance the process to be more 175 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,120 efficient, things like that. So the education side of that 176 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,440 was absolutely vital. And with my experiences of 177 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,080 training at a high level for powerlifting and, and trying to 178 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,360 do all kinds of other things, I understood primarily what it 179 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,840 felt like. That is such a huge, huge 180 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,360 benefit for any coach. When you have actually walked 181 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,120 the walk and you know what to tell your clients, your athletes 182 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,640 or whoever you're working with what to expect to feel, that's 183 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,560 when you get really good buy in because they're like, OK, this 184 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,640 guy is for real. Because I'm, I'm feeling this. 185 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,000 And not only did he tell me I was going to feel like this, 186 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,120 he's telling me why exactly I'm feeling like this and when it'll 187 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,440 go away. So, so I think that's, that was 188 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,160 the biggest attribute because you have to bridge the gap is 189 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,280 what we always talked about in our program, bridging the gap 190 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,320 between wisdom and knowledge. And you put those things 191 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,400 together because most people only got one if they're lucky. 192 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,480 I think the, the wisdom is something that only comes with 193 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,600 time. Obviously, I'm in the sport 194 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,400 time, being around the sport time. 195 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,840 If you're not at an elite level, if you're surrounding yourself 196 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,960 with elite athletes, you can pick up that wisdom and, and 197 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,480 kind of use that for your own. And that's something that I 198 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,360 personally do because I mean, I've been in the sport for only 199 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,840 about four years, which is basically nothing compared to 200 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,960 some of these people who've been doing it 20-30 years. 201 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,480 And I think what kind of not sound arrogant, but what kind of 202 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:13,280 separates me apart from maybe other coaches quote, UN quote 203 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,760 that are in this space that are my age, that they're not around 204 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,960 some of these people who have done these crazy lifts and have 205 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,880 been around other people who have set world records. 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,320 And I think that's the wisdom aspect of it. 207 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,800 And I think another thing that makes a great coach is obviously 208 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,040 the knowledge, having the background, the education, 209 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,720 because just because you can total 2400 doesn't mean you know 210 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,560 how to teach someone to do that. Very, very true. 211 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,080 Like some of the greatest sprinters in the world, they 212 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,600 they just have genetic gifts. You can't teach that for sure. 213 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,960 But funny enough what you're doing with doing all the 214 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,560 interviews in your podcast I was doing, but in private for a 215 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,480 long, long, long, long time. The first thing I did when I 216 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,600 came to East Tennessee State was, you know, I was surrounded 217 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,000 by incredible professors, but most of those professors were 218 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,400 coaches at really high levels internationally, like Olympic 219 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,080 level coaches. And not just once or twice, but 220 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,200 many times over. Meg Stone still has the NCAA 221 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,520 record for shot, but from 1976. I mean, that is as elite as it 222 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,080 gets. She was in the Olympics twice. 223 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:22,240 So the first thing I did was I sat down and I interviewed all 224 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,640 of them. And I wanted. 225 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,480 It's not just to understand them because I really want to get to 226 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,520 know them in general. Yeah, You know, that's just fun 227 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,040 because you get to meet really cool people. 228 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,040 But as an athlete looking for competitive advantage, as a 229 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,840 coach looking for competitive advantage, I wanted to see what 230 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,360 parallels all went with their methodology and their 231 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,040 experiences. So when you can do that, you get 232 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,680 exposed to more and more people. It's kind of, it's almost like a 233 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,160 filter because the more you're exposed to, the more parallels 234 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,880 that you can find in successful people. 235 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,760 And that's where the truth really lies and how to succeed 236 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,440 in life. Yeah, absolutely. 237 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,480 And that's kind of you basically just kind of put words onto my 238 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,680 mindset of why I started this podcast. 239 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,880 It wasn't just, I mean, it was just something that I randomly 240 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,600 one day said this would be interesting. 241 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,240 And then kind of as I started going through, I was like, this 242 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,240 is really good to pick up on wisdom, knowledge, obviously 243 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,760 meet new people, but also get to share some of the thoughts of 244 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,080 some of these people who have put different totals and 245 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,600 information and different areas of the sport. 246 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,440 And I think that's one of my favorite parts about this 247 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,200 podcast in general is being able to learn from these interviews 248 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,960 and more than just getting my name out there. 249 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,320 Sure, Yeah. And hopefully all the people 250 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,000 that are listening as well. Exactly. 251 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,480 So let's dive a little bit into your actual career during 252 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,600 powerlifting. I know you had the world record 253 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,880 squad at 181 right at 9:35, and then we're the lightest to squat 254 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,160 1000 at 198, correct? Yeah, weighed in 194 for that 255 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,320 one. Just just an extra couple pounds 256 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,720 to to stick it to Jason Coker from a buddy from First Pro meet 257 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,160 back in the day. I love that guy to death. 258 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,920 So I I do know the the person who was able to kind of chip 259 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,880 that Tony Creatura, He he did that. 260 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,720 I was actually at that meet. So that was pretty cool to 261 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:12,320 explain. Oh, no way. 262 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:13,360 Yeah. He. 263 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:15,880 That's why I honestly had no idea that that had happened. 264 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,040 I've been out of the circles for a while. 265 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,840 Yeah, so he did it at 181. And I was like, that's just 266 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,560 insane. Really. 267 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:23,440 Yeah. Holy crap. 268 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,560 And but yeah, so let's talk about maybe you said you are 269 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,480 primarily, primarily multiply and I looked on open pile of 270 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,560 things. So you had a few single ply and 271 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,120 a couple raw. But maybe what was the draw to 272 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,920 you for multiply with someone that kind of studies the body so 273 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,480 much that, you know, I feel like from my point of view, if I were 274 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,600 to guess, seeing what your qualifications on paper would 275 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,920 be, I would think, oh, that's a raw guy for sure. 276 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,000 That's funny. Well, first, the the environment 277 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,360 was very, very much multiply when I started. 278 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,120 I mean, I graduated high school in 2005 and I started really 279 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,080 paying attention to powerlifting and probably 2003 or so, the 280 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,040 biggest game in town was the WPO. 281 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,560 And that's all multiply. That was as extreme as it got. 282 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,160 I mean, people were cutting weight and doing all kinds of 283 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,200 crazy stuff. I mean, the culture was insane 284 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,240 and there's still plenty of that going on today. 285 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,320 But that was, there was no raw division. 286 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,040 Like if you signed up for, especially for an APF meet 287 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,120 there, there wasn't a raw anything. 288 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,840 That was just kind of the tradition of powerlifting. 289 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,080 You could go to a meet and lift without stuff, but you were 290 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,000 losing competitive advantage. But yeah, another thing outside 291 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,120 of my education, anatomy and all that stuff, I love Motorsports. 292 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,760 I grew up in North Carolina. I moved back here recently in 293 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,200 the last few years and that's always been kind of ingrained in 294 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,400 the culture down here. I especially love drag racing, 295 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,720 but any motorsport and if you, if you look at interviews or 296 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,720 stories and all that stuff, they were always trying to find 297 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,160 different mechanical advantages. And I looked at powerlifting in 298 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:08,680 the same way. I'm not just learning how to 299 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,480 train my body, I'm competing in a sport. 300 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,520 A sport has specific tasks that are included in it, and there 301 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,280 are parameters in that rule book. 302 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,600 So I looked at it like I was a NASCAR crew chief or any kind of 303 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,160 crew chief. I was looking for every 304 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,440 advantage that I could find, and that's part of where all the 305 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,960 sports specific techniques that I used when I was competing came 306 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,320 from. It wasn't. 307 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,040 So, you know, I could post a video on the Internet and have 308 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,040 everybody be happy at my squats. No, it was complete fucking 309 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:36,640 opposite. Yeah. 310 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,120 Like I, if people looked at my squat is like that shouldn't 311 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,680 account. It was like I just did my job 312 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:42,760 really well. Yeah. 313 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,000 Because they think it's unfair. And you know what, I hope it 314 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,000 fucking is. Fairness is something that's 315 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,120 it's an absolute illusion. There's no such thing as a 316 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,760 training level playing field in any sport or anything in life. 317 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,120 So you need to get over that quickly if the whole purpose of 318 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,080 training is to make things unfair because you'll be better 319 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,880 prepared than your opponents. You can start with the the same 320 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,839 rule set and all that, all that stuff. 321 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:13,880 But there's looking for fairness is completely insane to me. 322 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,680 Nothing should be fair. Yeah. 323 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,720 And that's kind of, I kind of like that analogy that almost to 324 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,960 me, the first thing I could think of is like when you're 325 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,079 playing just pick any sport, but the better the equipment is, 326 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,839 like you get a better pair of cleats, it's going to help you. 327 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,600 Why? Why wouldn't you use it if it's 328 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,160 allowed? Exactly. 329 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,960 And to me, it was multiply powerlifting because there's so 330 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,480 many extra variables tossed in. There's so much more to learn. 331 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,120 There's so much more to tweak. There's so many different things 332 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:44,760 to adjust. And not just in your technique, 333 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,920 but how you wear the stuff. You can turn it around 334 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,720 backwards. You can do all kinds of wild 335 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,880 stuff, but you have to have the mind to do it. 336 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,000 You can go through, you know, trial and error, which most of 337 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,480 us do and did. But if you have a specific 338 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,120 understanding of how it all works, and I mean that, that 339 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,720 takes a high level of intelligence. 340 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,080 And I've traveled around to lift with as many people that I could 341 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,400 that had all kinds of crazy experiences and tried all kinds 342 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,440 of crazy stuff, and I was able to learn from them. 343 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,680 You know, Brian Carroll, Laura Phelps, a lot of guys from West 344 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,160 Side, and so many other people around North Carolina. 345 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,200 I learned what worked for me and what didn't work. 346 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,560 And that's the other thing, because everything's so specific 347 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,280 because of my joint problems that were born with, I couldn't 348 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,000 wear my equipment the way a lot of other people did, like bench 349 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,640 shirts. They basically just didn't work 350 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,640 very much for me because my shoulders were so trash and I 351 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,360 couldn't like Jack the shirt down or or do anything like 352 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:40,640 that. My shoulders literally come out 353 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,880 of place. So we all kind of have the cards 354 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,200 that were dealt, you know, and you have to figure out how to 355 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,640 play that the best you can. And that's, that was the whole 356 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,960 process. So figuring all those things out 357 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,360 and finding your competitive advantage of things that you're 358 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,320 good at, accentuating them, that's what sport is. 359 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,760 That's the beauty of it in any sport, but especially with 360 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,200 multiply powerlifter. Yeah. 361 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,480 And specifically with multiply, like the biggest thing you can 362 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,840 do to get better is be in it more. 363 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,760 And for, for me, like I'm doing my first multiply meet in about 364 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,640 3 weeks. And I mean everything, it's been 365 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,800 going great because I mean, I have a decent base, which I 366 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,600 think is another thing that we could talk about and that's very 367 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,080 important. But I think a prime example with 368 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,280 the whole limiting variables and different variables is yesterday 369 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,760 I was going for a bench PR and I was, I, my, one of my first 370 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,160 attempts was 465 just to match what I did previously at the 371 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,960 beginning of prep and I almost missed it. 372 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,840 And then fix, fix the shirt a little bit, threw on 20 lbs and 373 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,520 literally launched it. It just shows that the one 374 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,560 little tweak, one small thing and one little adjustment can 375 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,320 change the whole game. And I think learning to be able 376 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,760 to do that on meet day is probably one of the most 377 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,320 difficult things. Definitely, yeah, absolutely. 378 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,840 Because every time you put on equipment, it's just a little 379 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,320 bit different than the last time you did it. 380 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,400 Yep. So you never know exactly what 381 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,840 you're going to get. But when you get the experience 382 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,680 and you pay attention to how you put things on, like if you put 383 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,600 on your your bench shirt with your palms up or palms facing 384 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,760 each other, palms down, all these other different things, 385 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,040 there's those are all variables that go into. 386 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,560 Drastic changes in how all that stuff operates. 387 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,000 So it it's no longer just, I didn't feel strong today. 388 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,280 Where I feel real strong today is like, doesn't really matter 389 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,800 that you feel great. If you don't have everything set 390 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,720 up, if you're not intelligent about the process, you're not 391 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,920 going to be consistently good. You might be good every once in 392 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,040 a while because you get lucky. Yeah, but it takes a whole lot 393 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,800 more than just being strong. Yeah. 394 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,840 So what are some of those things for you that was maybe some 395 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,240 pointers or some things that you kind of stuck with that helped 396 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,520 you limit the variables on whether a day-to-day basis or 397 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,440 the meet day itself? Well, one was managing body 398 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,120 weight, especially with equipment. 399 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,640 If your body weights all over the place. 400 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,480 And I know the the ends or leviathans now are kind of 401 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,680 adjustable and there's a few other suits that are probably 402 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,720 adjustable now that helps a lot. But I mean the suit that I 403 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,680 squatted my first 1000 LB squat in. 404 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,760 I had about a 6 LB window that if if I was below that the suit 405 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,960 was way too loose and I couldn't hardly squat anything. 406 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,000 If it was above that, my legs were numb and I couldn't squat 407 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,000 anything. So I hadn't have that nailed. 408 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,160 Perfect. Cut all the weight and then 409 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,240 rehydrate to exactly the right place. 410 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,920 And then making sure that you are consciously putting on your 411 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,560 equipment the same way every time, but try different things 412 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,480 farther away from competition, like putting, you know, like the 413 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,360 the hand position when you're putting on your bench. 414 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:45,880 Sure, you can try all that stuff away from competition time, but 415 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,840 when you get close to competition time, everything 416 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,000 needs to be exactly the same every single time. 417 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,880 So you know exactly what's coming and then managing your 418 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,840 warmups and how to put the equipment on, when to put the 419 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:57,960 equipment on. How are you? 420 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,640 Are you watching the attempts of the flight ahead of you? 421 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,760 Are they equipped? Are they unequipped? 422 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,240 Unequipped flights go exponentially faster than 423 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,200 equipped flights because there's no knee wraps or whatever's 424 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,520 going on. So you have to to manage all 425 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,040 that stuff. So it's way, way, way, way more 426 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,600 complicated because there's so many more variables at play. 427 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,360 But that's what I loved about it. 428 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,640 If you if you could get a handle on those things and you were 429 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,640 intelligent about it, you had an advantage. 430 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,000 It's not fair. Yeah, Yeah, if you could. 431 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,720 Yeah, Like you just said, if you can nail those things down and 432 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,840 there's nothing from those variables that's stopping you, 433 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,000 then it you're in for a great day. 434 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,600 And there's, there's so many multiplied meets of people just 435 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,160 going either 3 for 9:00 or or bombing out. 436 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,440 And it probably comes down to just the variables. 437 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,040 It's not the strength. I mean, obviously there's 438 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,120 sometimes there's the conditions with maybe you didn't rehydrate 439 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,120 well enough or the meat's too hot and or there's just things 440 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,120 like that. But I think the the people that 441 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,960 succeed and get to 3rd attempts and successfully is the people 442 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,040 that can control those variables to almost not be a factor. 443 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,280 Yeah, definitely. And that consistency was 444 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,600 something I was super proud of, especially with my squats 445 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,520 because if you watch my squats on video, they they never look 446 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,320 like they're at depth, but that's because the videos are 447 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,680 from the front. Yep, if you look at them from 448 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,640 the side, it actually looks a lot different. 449 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,000 I had judges, multiple judges in my career, and this is one of 450 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,360 the biggest compliments I ever got. 451 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,400 They were excited to give me Reds on depth because they'd 452 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,440 seen my lifts on the Internet before and they said May. 453 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,760 I could not believe that you were actually getting to 454 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,440 parallel from the side when I was actually looking at it up 455 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,760 close. And I'm like, how about that? 456 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,600 It's a weird deal. I never, I bought, actually, I 457 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,120 can't say never. I bombed out once in my entire 458 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,400 career. I don't know how many meets I 459 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,320 did on squad depth. And that was a really awkward 460 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,480 deal where a guy that who was running the meet had never 461 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,400 competed, didn't lift weights and he didn't know me. 462 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,760 I, I came in to weigh in, I made weight and I told him what I was 463 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,880 opening with on squat and he's like, I think you should lower 464 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,400 that. I was like, what? 465 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,040 You don't why? Why are you saying this to me? 466 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,560 This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 467 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,280 We've just met. You've never seen me lift. 468 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,840 And he said I think you should probably lower that by about 100 469 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760 lbs. And I was just losing my mind 470 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,800 and guess what? He was a side judge the next day 471 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,440 and he told me I was 1/4 of an inch high on my squats. 472 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,480 But aside from that really weird experience, I never, I never 473 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,040 bombed out on squats because of depth. 474 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,000 So and I probably more than those record squats, I'm more 475 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,800 proud that I had the number one ranked squat in my weight class 476 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,880 for five different years internationally. 477 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,520 Yeah, to me, to me, that was really cool. 478 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,640 Yeah. And it's I'm glad that you said 479 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,680 that too because you can never judge a multiply squat from the 480 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,360 front. I mean, we like to post our 481 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,280 videos from the front, but I mean, just knowing how physics 482 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,560 and camera angles work, if you watch vertical shin, you're not 483 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,600 going to be able to tell because that angle is just so different 484 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,480 and you can see it in person, but oh, that's good. 485 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,520 And then you watch a backup video and you're like, was it 486 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,440 good? So if you're not there to 487 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,840 experience it, then you can't really comment on that. 488 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,920 And I think that's kind of one of the biggest. 489 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,440 I mean, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of high squats 490 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,720 out there still. But. 491 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,600 You can't just all these Internet warriors and just 492 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,560 judging all this equipped stuff when they have probably never 493 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,960 even seen one in person. It's just mind boggling to me. 494 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,120 Yeah. And especially with multiply 495 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,880 stuff, particularly canvas suits, they are so thick that 496 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,680 there's, you know, at least an inch of material in it. 497 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,440 When you're wearing briefs and a canvas suit that's raising that 498 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,200 crease up off of your hip. And if you have an X-ray, you 499 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,080 could actually see where the femur is in real life. 500 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,480 But that really throws off the perception, especially from the 501 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,280 front. But is what it is. 502 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,200 So I guess we'll talk about the meat that you squatted, the 503 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,600 thousand. Maybe tell us a little bit about 504 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,400 the prep going into it kind of when you decided like, hey, I 505 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,080 wanted to be the lightest 1 to squat 1000 kind of what what the 506 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,680 thought process behind that was? Sure. 507 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,880 Yeah. That thought was actually 508 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:30,920 something that happened around 2006, I think. 509 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,640 So that was eight years before I did it. 510 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:38,920 I had just seen Sam Byrd take that title, and I don't remember 511 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,920 who who had that before him, but there was a lineage going all 512 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,840 the way back. I mean, of course. 513 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,320 Oh man, The guy that did it the first time in a meet, Why am I 514 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,800 spacing on his name anyway? Back in the 80s. 515 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,280 I can't think of it either. Yeah, but the first time I 516 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,880 remember hearing an early name of someone being the lightest to 517 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,080 squat 1000 lbs was Fred Hatfield. 518 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,320 He did it that I think at 264. And then it took a long time and 519 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,200 eventually with Chuck Vogel, Paul, maybe that's who Sam took 520 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,440 that from, I'm not sure. But then it was Sam. 521 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,720 Kurt Kowalski did it as well. And single pie, which was 522 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760 bonkers. He was 275 or so. 523 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,240 But there was a super cool lineage and Jason and Coker was 524 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,000 in there for sure. Can't, can't forget to mention 525 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,280 him. But to be in any list with those 526 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,760 people, people I really looked up to a ton was super cool. 527 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,360 And then I I was just able to think, you know, if I stay 528 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,760 healthy, if I do this right, with the way I'm progressing 529 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,520 with, you know, hopefully not being delusional, it just seemed 530 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,360 like something that I could do. And and my buddy will flattery 531 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,040 was like, yeah, I think you're right. 532 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,400 And he was damn near the only person that thought so. 533 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,120 But that was just enough to help me really go after it. 534 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,920 So that meet day was a really, really hot day in Bristol, TN. 535 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,240 We're in a National Guard Armory. 536 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,120 There's no air conditioning. We had the doors open and it was 537 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:13,600 like 90° and training had gone really well. 538 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,520 Had an overkill squat suit. It was custom made. 539 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,000 That was the one with the the like 6 LB window of body weight 540 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,320 that I could be in. I was a little bit lighter than 541 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,920 I wanted to be, but it felt good enough. 542 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,160 And that 1000 LB squat was actually the second attempt. 543 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:35,920 I opened at like a low 900 I think, and then jumped up to 544 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,000 1000. And with how training had been 545 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,400 going, I thought it was going to fly. 546 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,080 And I start to come up out of the bottom and it feels like the 547 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,280 ground is splitting beneath me and it's because my shoe blew 548 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,360 out and the carpet was stretching under my feet. 549 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,120 So I'm having to try and finesse 1000 LB squat and slowly come up 550 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,520 and not push too hard to where my shoes just going to come 551 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,680 apart, where the the carpets going to rip or whatever. 552 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,760 And I'm just kind of like gradually sliding up into 553 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,400 lockout. And my whole plan that day was 554 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,480 to go after the 198 record, but I wanted to get that 1000 LB 555 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,520 squat out of the way. So I loaded up 1060 on the third 556 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,400 attempt and I I tried to go up there and I couldn't even take 557 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,720 it out of the rack because my shoe was split around the heel 558 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,800 and, and that was that. Yeah. 559 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,200 I mean, that's, that's crazy that you're still able to pull 560 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,160 that off. And I would have been terrified 561 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,760 if I saw the the ground split like that. 562 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,120 Yeah. That it, it was one of the 563 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:46,480 things that was very unique to me, which sounds weird to say. 564 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,920 So I feel like a douche all the time when I'm talking about 565 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,880 stuff like that. But nobody squatted as wide as I 566 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,560 did aside from Laura Phelps. That I knew of because I was 567 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,960 almost touching the sides of the monoliths. 568 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,240 And I'm 57. When I have all that weight on 569 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,960 me, I'm five feet. Laura started off closer to five 570 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160 feet when she was there. But, you know, the heaviest I 571 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,600 ever saw on her back was like 800 lbs when she attempted it. 572 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,960 Yeah. And it's it's just a different 573 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,360 dynamic when you have a good bit more weight on your back. 574 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,880 So I didn't have anybody to go ask like, hey, when this 575 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,240 happened to you, what did you do? 576 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,040 Yeah, there was because nobody had ever done it before. 577 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,520 So you're, you're just kind of stuck there, left to, to figure 578 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,960 things out. So I eventually, you know, had 579 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,160 to ditch the Chuck Taylors, which are the ones that split, 580 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,600 and I had to go get metal squash shoes. 581 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,800 There's those $200.00 shoes, and they were finally justified to 582 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,960 spend $200.00 on them because I couldn't live with anything 583 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,040 else. Yeah, they they worked out 584 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,400 really good and I still have them today. 585 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,920 That's cool. So the, I guess the training 586 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,000 going into it and maybe over the years, what kind of modalities 587 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,680 or kind of different influences that you use for like your setup 588 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,480 of your, your training blocks and things and maybe how that's 589 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,000 evolved over the years? So much training it seemed like 590 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,840 got simpler and simpler over the years. 591 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,440 I trained less and less the stronger it got. 592 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,960 And that was from learning lessons by reading things that 593 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,280 they've put out, talking about Chuck Vogel, Poles training and 594 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,840 all the guys at West Side and all the injuries that they had 595 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,200 and how crazy they were going all the time. 596 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,160 So it's great to have people out there on the, the cutting edge, 597 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,960 you know, pushing the envelope and doing all the crazy stuff so 598 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,320 you can learn from it. You know, hats off to those 599 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,080 guys. And getting the to meet Dave 600 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,080 Tate on the his Table Talk podcast was pretty awesome. 601 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,320 Yeah, we got to talk about a lot of stories off camera that, you 602 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,840 know, it's stuff that I'd heard growing up in the sport and, 603 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,600 and, and sharing a lot of commonalities with people that 604 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,040 we knew, but it was, it was super cool. 605 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,600 But as far as my training, I, I started off like most folks in 606 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,320 powerlifting. I was doing all the West side 607 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,920 stuff. I read all the articles doing 608 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,800 circum boxes, using the bands, chains, the box squats, 609 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,360 absolutely everything that I could do. 610 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,920 And I built up a really good base with that. 611 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,400 The bands specifically, I think have a really cool training 612 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,760 effect because it's, I don't, I honestly don't think it's for 613 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,720 the reasons that they were said to have been done. 614 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,320 Because we talked about over speed eccentrics and that's an 615 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,000 interesting concept, kind of like depth drops and 616 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,040 plyometrics. That's that's another form of 617 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,440 over speed eccentrics where you're having to contract to 618 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,400 absorb force in the muscle to where you can stimulate more 619 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,480 type 2X type muscle fibers. But the the more important thing 620 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,600 to me with band training is that it turns off the inhibition to 621 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,320 slow down at the top of a Rep for fear of taking flight on 622 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,400 things like a squat or losing the bar, like pushing the bar so 623 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,080 hard that it will come out of your hands at the top of a bench 624 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,640 press. And when you take away that 625 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,520 inhibition and the bands keep everything anchored, you can 626 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,880 accelerate all the way through a squat or anything else, just 627 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,120 like you're going to try and throw it or push it as far up 628 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400 into the air as you can. And I think the accumulated 629 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,120 training effect of that over time has a massive, massive 630 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,640 benefit. But I did start to stall a 631 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,960 little bit with my actual unequipped strength by doing 632 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,600 that. And I started doing higher 633 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,600 volume training and I would take periods of time where I'm doing 634 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,200 10s and fifteens and then I'd come back and I'd be a little 635 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,440 bit stronger. And then the stronger I got and 636 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,360 more advanced I got, I noticed that there was more of a lag 637 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,560 between doing high volume work and then eventually being 638 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,920 stronger on those higher intensities, the twos and threes 639 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,520 and fives and things like that. And that was around the time 640 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,480 that I started becoming more familiar with Doctor Mike Stones 641 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,520 research block periodization in the Western model of that Yuri 642 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,440 Verkashansky. Dr. Yuri Verkashansky from the 643 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,600 Soviet Union was doing the exact same thing in Soviet Russia, but 644 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,360 in a different language. So you had kind of this 645 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,720 double-blind research thing going on with probably the 646 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,719 coolest thing that I think has ever happened in sports science 647 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,440 because you had two guys that were working with tons of 648 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,800 athletes and developing these training programs and training 649 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,960 studies and finding almost the exact same thing. 650 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,600 They had different words for like the phases and mesocycles 651 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,320 or blocks or your transmutation phase or competition phase, 652 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,120 specificity or specialization phases, accumulation or general 653 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,159 preparation phases. All these things were super, 654 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,760 super similar, but they were the same, You know, it's and they 655 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,239 didn't know about each other until I think the 90s and they 656 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,639 were doing this from the 70s on, but I digress. 657 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,920 I was learning more about how those training programs went and 658 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,760 I was like, wait a minute, I've been doing kind of a really dumb 659 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,440 version of this for quite a while and seeing some progress. 660 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,760 If I really organize my training, look at my endpoint of 661 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,440 my meet day plan backwards, I can go through all this and 662 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,000 hopefully have some predictable results. 663 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,040 And that's really what started to happen. 664 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,920 And the more in depth I got into that, the more I was able to 665 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,600 increase the the effectiveness of planning training. 666 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,440 Yeah. And that's when I started 667 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,120 learning. OK, well, if I'm actually 668 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,280 monitoring myself and understanding my fatigue and how 669 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,400 that plays in the performance and recovery and all those 670 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:36,120 things, everything started getting really easy to make 671 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120 progress. And that was, that's not the way 672 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,320 that's supposed to go, right? Like the, the higher level you, 673 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,760 you get, you're supposed to work harder and harder and harder. 674 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,280 And if you're winning, you work harder. 675 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,760 If you're losing, you need to work harder. 676 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,520 And that's, that's always the mindset. 677 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,040 But if you're not a beginner, that doesn't apply anymore. 678 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,080 You have to figure out what the smartest way to go about things 679 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,360 does. And that a lot of times it means 680 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,600 not training as much. Anybody can train hard. 681 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,240 Honestly, everybody can flip that switch on if they're going 682 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:08,840 to go anywhere in life and do something really hard because 683 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,560 you get a big endorphin rush and then adrenaline rush from that. 684 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,120 You get all the reward things from your from your endocrine 685 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,120 system. But nobody wants to sit around 686 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,280 and do research. Yeah, nobody wants to be 687 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,920 hardcore about reading a fucking book, you know? 688 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,880 But that's the stuff that really sets you apart if you're, 689 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,040 especially if you're, you're coaching yourself. 690 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,240 And I think another point on that too is it kind of in a, in 691 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:38,480 a shortened way, it's almost like obviously once you get to 692 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,040 an elite level, like if you can just be recovered and be injury 693 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,040 free, there's nothing stopping you. 694 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,720 Yeah, yeah. And you only need enough of a 695 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,480 training dose. Now say dose intentionally is 696 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,560 just like a medicine dose. You only need enough to make 697 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160 progress. You don't need to Max out the 698 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,200 dosage and then be mentally tough and fight through fatigue 699 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,680 all the time. Like, you just need to get 700 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,640 create enough of a stimulus to make progress. 701 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,960 And if you're staying on that conservative side, you minimize 702 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,480 your injury risk. And it's very much tortoise in 703 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,160 the hair. You'll eventually pass a whole 704 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,320 lot of people because they're going to start popping things 705 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,920 off that should have stayed attached to where they were. 706 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,080 Yeah. That's a great point, but 707 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,920 tortoise in the hair. I like that because I think the 708 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,080 biggest thing in powerlifting is longevity and that goes for all 709 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520 strength sports. I mean, you look at strong men 710 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,320 and some of the best athletes are almost 40 years old and 711 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,280 right, 20 years ago you'd say a 40 year old is an old person. 712 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,760 They're not an athlete, they're not competing in sports, but 713 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,400 those are the people that are lifting the heaviest weights on 714 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,520 the planet, so. Yep, definitely that. 715 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,920 That accumulated training effect, if they can stay 716 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,360 relatively injury free, is absolutely massive. 717 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,520 And by the time you get to 40, you do start to have what's 718 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,440 called the the old man strength kick in and everybody talks 719 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,000 about that little man shake my hand really hard and, you know, 720 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,360 crazy grip strength. There's physiological reasons 721 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,200 for that, like your connective tissue actually becomes more 722 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,200 efficient in transferring force. Your muscle can be exactly the 723 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,480 same strength as far as contractile force. 724 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,600 But if you are more efficient with a stronger tendon between 725 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,080 your muscle and the joint that it's moving, you exude more 726 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,000 force. Yeah. 727 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,440 So that's that's where old main strength kind of kicks in. 728 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560 Yeah, that's, that's pretty cool to think about because I mean, 729 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,040 like you said, if it's you can have a very strong muscle, but 730 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,600 if the the supporting tendons and tissues around it aren't 731 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,320 going to allow it to maximally transfer the weight, then it's 732 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,720 what what you got to just do it with time. 733 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,440 Yeah, definitely. And you, you can't, you can't 734 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,200 skate by that in the least, Yeah. 735 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,720 So I think one of the the last topics I want to talk about was 736 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:50,680 kind of how I found out about you. 737 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,120 One of my friends, Connor Boyle, he used. 738 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,000 Oh, cool. Yeah. 739 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,920 So he was obviously like a a 198 savant. 740 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,320 Like he loves trying to be in that weight class, trying to get 741 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,720 the highest deadlift and all those things. 742 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,520 But I found out about you through him using you for a 743 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,720 water cut. So I kind of wanted to maybe 744 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,880 talk a little bit about what kind of got you involved in that 745 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,520 and maybe how that operates for you? 746 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,160 With water cutting in general, yeah, yeah, sure. 747 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,200 I've given lots of talks on that for sure. 748 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,720 And I think it's it's getting better. 749 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,560 But there's some of the worst misinformation that's out there 750 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,120 on water cutting protocols can most of it ends up coming from 751 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,560 different sports. People used to cut like 752 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,200 bodybuilders back in the day. And the timing was all off. 753 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,920 The electrolyte balances were all off. 754 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,680 People would start water loading like a month out and like, Jesus 755 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,200 Christ, what what is going on? And I tried some some silly 756 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,360 stuff early on, like if you're going to coach water cutting, 757 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,640 you better fucking done it a lot and you better screwed up a lot 758 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,880 of things over time because you need to know. 759 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,280 What's wrong and what's right? Not just by what's in a book, 760 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,400 but by the feel. If you're feeling specific 761 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,200 things during a specific portion of the water cut process, you 762 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,040 need to be able to point that out and with your communications 763 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,640 with the client slash athlete and prevent them from having 764 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,080 anything catastrophic happen first and foremost. 765 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,960 But also you can change the approach. 766 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,240 And every single water cut that I've done for anybody has always 767 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,040 been different, The timings different, the circumstances are 768 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,240 different, the environments different. 769 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,280 People retain water in different ways just from genetic 770 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,920 variability and their environment. 771 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,960 The tap water that they have wherever they live is going to 772 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,320 change the variables there and lots of other things on top of 773 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,200 that, just for example. But again, I learned how to do 774 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,080 that and I studied the, the endocrine system related to 775 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,440 water and sodium regulation specifically for competitive 776 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,160 advantage. That's where all this came from. 777 00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:01,920 I, I heard and had been taught by, you know, Brian Carroll, who 778 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,800 wrote a really good book on it, Laura Phelps, Al Castle, A lot 779 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,800 of people that I was around when I was competing, especially 780 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,920 early on in the, in the pro ranks of powerlifting. 781 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,000 And I, I learned all the different methods that they 782 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,680 recommended doing and they were all pretty different. 783 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,520 They had commonalities, which were those parallels that I 784 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,000 talked about earlier. So I really stuck to that. 785 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,720 And then I started studying the Physiology of it a lot deeper 786 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,480 and I started trying to figure out, OK, so if we're going to 787 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,320 start loading water, what's the best time? 788 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,600 How long does it actually take for the hormones in your body to 789 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,760 respond And actually be stimulated by the water loading? 790 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,960 And how long does it take for when you cut that water off or 791 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,320 if you taper it to actually recognize that that's happening? 792 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600 Because all those timing aspects are incredibly important. 793 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,520 And then the same thing goes to sodium. 794 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,000 But when should you add in sodium and when should you cut 795 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,280 it out? How fast is the reaction of your 796 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,880 aldosterone and your kidneys going to recognize that that's 797 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,840 there and not there? So playing with that over the 798 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,600 years and then understanding like you don't really need more 799 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:17,960 than five or six days maximum to have a huge water cut and and 800 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,120 saving people from, you know, water loading for two weeks and 801 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,880 not having sodium for a month. And like all these horrible 802 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,400 things that only increase your injury risk and help may even 803 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:31,400 give you a seizure or a stroke, like people do it that badly. 804 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,040 So that's why I started talking more about it. 805 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,200 The talks that I give, I always start with this is an incredibly 806 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,640 bad idea. Don't do it. 807 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,480 But when you do it, try to use these guidelines because I don't 808 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,840 want you to die. Yeah. 809 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,160 Or, you know, go into kidney failure and have to go to the ER 810 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,600 because a lot of people have done that too. 811 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,480 So going through all those scenarios and it's always 812 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,320 different for 24 hour weigh insurance, 2 hour weigh 813 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360 insurance, mat side weigh insurance, like for jiu jitsu, 814 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,880 like you literally go weigh in, then you walk out to go fight. 815 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:05,200 Yeah, all, all those things change the variable so much 816 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,240 because of the timing aspects. Those hormones are changing over 817 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:14,760 the course of hours, not days. And it's you, you kind of have 818 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,040 to to call everything on the fly, especially in the last 819 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,560 couple days of a water cut because everybody's different. 820 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,280 But it's always high stress. And if you can avoid it, I 821 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,560 definitely recommend it. Yeah. 822 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,120 So I, I do have a few questions, maybe specific questions, like I 823 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,280 guess one of the first ones is with it, if you're doing it 824 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,720 online and kind of obviously you need to know a little bit about 825 00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:39,480 the athlete, but do you use previous data from other 826 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,600 athletes that you've done to kind of guide you? 827 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,560 Do you have like AI guess like a database and of sorts to kind of 828 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,280 give you the the markers and things like that that can help 829 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,680 you correctly guide them? Not specific data points. 830 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,720 I have the experiences, I understand the process. 831 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,920 It's more I don't know. I've done this with so many 832 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,160 people at this point I couldn't even like pull out specific 833 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,200 examples. But it's definitely the 834 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,920 experience part. So being exposed to different 835 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,400 trends and I pay attention to people's language a lot. 836 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,880 If I think people are missing food or changing water intake or 837 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,800 their the timing of that's not right. 838 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,000 It all all effects things differently. 839 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,440 So it gives me more insights on what to ask them directly. 840 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,280 I have them my my water cut clients checking in at the very, 841 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,600 very least once in the morning, once at night, and then the day 842 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:44,360 before, basically talking all day because it's a very, very 843 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,800 sensitive procedure and you need to stay on top of everything. 844 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,160 Like I can't say that I'm taking data points from previous 845 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,840 people, but I understand the human aspect. 846 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,200 That's the art of coaching. It's just like anything else. 847 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,840 Yeah, for sure. And I guess another thing would 848 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,440 be kind of what what's like your your limit. 849 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,120 Like it doesn't necessarily have to be a poundage because 850 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,080 everyone, like you said, everyone works differently, but 851 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,040 maybe sometimes where someone's wanted to go hire you, but 852 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,120 you're like, this is just not doable. 853 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,600 Like what are? What are some things that 854 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,200 signify that? Well, that that's kind of, it's 855 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,200 kind of about those like the seminar talks that I give, I 856 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,440 tell people this is a terrible idea, don't do it. 857 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,880 But when you do do it this way, or at least don't do it these 858 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,680 other horrible ways, I try to at least help people not make 859 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:38,280 terrible mistakes For two hour weigh insurance. 860 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,360 My basic guidelines are don't cut more than 5% body weight. 861 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,440 That seems to be a, a pretty moderate. 862 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,800 I mean that that's still risky in general, but I've seen it 863 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,120 succeed plenty of times versus not succeed. 864 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,800 And it's so silly because the, the success rate that I've had 865 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,840 with these people and going to competitions and the leading up 866 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,120 to it, I'm like, there's no way this person's going to have a 867 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,760 good day. There's just no way. 868 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,520 And then they send me a message back and like most of the time 869 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,160 they hit PR somehow, like 3/4 of the time. 870 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,320 And like that shouldn't have happened. 871 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,840 You got lucky somehow. But for 24 hour weigh insurance, 872 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,920 I'm usually OK with doing 10% or less body weight. 873 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,360 Like that's, that's kind of a standard number. 874 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,840 I've gone all the way up to 15 or 16. 875 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,200 I didn't want to do it, but they were going to do it anyway, so I 876 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,200 tried to keep them from dying. Format side weigh insurance, 877 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,880 like 2 1/2 is usually recommended because you can kind 878 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:48,120 of chug some water and some some electrolyte supplements after 879 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,720 that to make up for it. And you're doing OK because that 880 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:54,360 that up takes super fast. So those are just general 881 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,320 guidelines, but everybody's very, very different. 882 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,920 Yeah, I think it's, it's really cool to kind of be the the 883 00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,640 different like aspects of it, the different type of signs and 884 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,000 the different strategies that kind of go into putting on a 885 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,680 best day, like kind of just with multiply and being able to 886 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,760 change variables and give yourself a competitive 887 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,280 advantage. Yeah, definitely. 888 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,120 I mean, that's that's what it's all about, right? 889 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,080 And the, the culture in jiu jitsu and grappling sports in 890 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,800 general is cut crazy. I mean, just insane stuff. 891 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,000 And that's where you find some of the mentally most mentally 892 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:32,120 tough people that there are. But that's it's almost like you 893 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,040 have an inhibition to being smart about the process, like 894 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,280 you're just going to tough through it because and that's 895 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,760 really admirable, but there are better ways to go about it. 896 00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:42,640 Some of the fighters that I've worked with over the years have 897 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,680 been kind of along those lines. You have to pull them back. 898 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,080 It's like, no, no, no, you're, you're three or four days out. 899 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,120 Don't go running 10 miles in your Sonic gear. 900 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,840 Like we, we have a timing aspect of this. 901 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,960 You'll you'll be fine. Well, I think, I think we can 902 00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,880 kind of wrap things up here. So I'll ask you my final 903 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,240 question. If you could give a new power 904 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,640 lifter or someone going into their first meet a word of 905 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:10,840 advice, what would that be? Have fun, enjoy the people, take 906 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,120 a conservative attempts, get in the meat and then pass that. 907 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,560 Enjoy it because everybody's nervous, everybody wants to do 908 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,840 well, and if you can't enjoy the process then you're not going to 909 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,320 last. So have fun. 910 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,720 Well, I wanted to thank you again for taking the time to 911 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:29,760 come on. It was my pleasure. 912 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,440 Oh, it's an honor, man. I appreciate it.