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Grab your pre workout and turn 
up that volume. 

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It is time for a new episode of 
The Power Lifters Den with your 

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host Cam Smith. 
Hello everybody. 

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Welcome back to another episode 
of the Power Lifters Den. 

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I'm your host Cam Smith and 
today I wanted to bring up the 

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creator of fifth set Sweet 
Burns. 

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Why don't you introduce 
yourself? 

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My name is Sweet Burns. 
I'm a powerlifting coach slash 

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writer. 
I live in western Pennsylvania. 

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I'm originally from Eastern 
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia area,

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but I live in Western PA now. 
I'm in a gym called Keyhole 

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Barbeau and coached the 
powerlifting team there and been

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a writer for Elite FTS for a 
number of years. 

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I would say eight or nine years 
at this point. 

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That's awesome. 
So I think to start off, I kind 

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of want to talk about Keyhole 
Barbell. 

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I was watching a little bit, a 
couple of videos and saw that it

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was, it was in the church. 
I know religion's a big part of 

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your life. 
I kind of want to know maybe 

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where the name came from and if 
the church was kind of something

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you stumbled upon or something 
you had in mind the whole time 

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or. 
Man, I believe in God's 

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Providence. 
I think that was part of his 

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plan. 
I can't really take credit for 

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it. 
At the time I was, you know, 

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maybe not living the life that I
should have. 

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And some will say something LED 
me out there. 

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I had these dreams. 
I was having these recurrent 

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Keyhole dreams for a long time 
and that's where the idea for 

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Keyhole, the Keyhole stuff came 
from. 

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I had a company called Keyhole 
Restoration before that, and 

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then when I was opening a gym, 
it was obviously going to be 

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called Keyhole Barbell. 
So I ended up moving where I 

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live now in Apollo, which is 
like a little town in Western 

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Pennsylvania and the sticks in 
the middle of nowhere. 

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And I'm from the city, you know,
I moved from North Philly to 

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Apollo, PA. 
So I went from being around 6 

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million people to like 1000 or 
2000. 

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And I bought the building purely
on the fact, the square footage,

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like I just basically looked at 
online. 

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I was looking for what was the 
biggest square footage I could 

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find, what the biggest buildings
I could find. 

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And I started to see there were 
a lot of churches on the market 

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at the time. 
This was around 2010. 

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So I started specifically 
looking for churches. 

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I was like, yeah, that'd be kind
of appropriate. 

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I mean, I live in a church, you 
know, I'd be the closest thing 

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to a castle I could ever get, 
you know. 

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And so sure enough, I I was 
going out to Western PA and 

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looking at various churches with
a realtor. 

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And she had a plan to, you know,
show me this place. 

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I wasn't even really interested.
I wanted to look at this 

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Methodist Church in a place 
called Unity Township. 

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I looked at it and I was like, 
yeah, this is the place. 

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This will work, right? 
You know? 

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And I was ready to make an offer
on that. 

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She's like, on the way back, 
just let me just stop and show 

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you this other place. 
And I'm like, I saw the pictures

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on the listing. 
It looks like crap. 

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And sure enough, we pulled up 
outside and I was like, what it 

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was, just mind boggling. 
The size of the building was so 

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big and I had like a bell tower,
you know, and it's like over 

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9000 square feet. 
And so when we walk in, I'm 

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like, you know, like I'm waiting
for the catch like this. 

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The yard needs to be done a lot 
of it needs a lot. 

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You know, it needed a lot of 
stuff right from the gate. 

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And it wasn't set up to be a 
house either. 

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But as soon as I walked into 
what was at the time, the 

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fellowship hall, like it had 
been closed down. 

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It was on the market for like 2 
years. 

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As soon as I walked in my front,
I was like, this is it, This is 

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the gym. 
That's a big deal, Barbara. 

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And sure enough, it was. 
And I moved in there like maybe 

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a few months later, and it's 
been off to the bases since 

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then. 
So I guess it's been 1213, 

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thirteen years or so. 
That's awesome. 

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That's definitely a unique spot 
in a. 

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It kind of goes well with like 
who you are and what you stand 

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for. 
So I think you kind of you, like

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you said, kind of led you to 
there. 

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So it kind of seemed to work 
out, I guess backtracking a 

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little bit more into like what 
got you into the sport of 

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powerlifting, bodybuilding kind 
of maybe some some early not 

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like what am I looking for like 
mentors and maybe kind of some 

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whether some books or you got a 
specific person that kind of 

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jumped you into the life. 
OK, so I started lifting at a 

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super young age, man. 
Like, I mean super young, 

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probably 12. 
And that was just because I was 

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interested in pro wrestling. 
Like that was what was on TV 

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late night, you know, like 
regular TV. 

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You watch it like 2 in the 
morning, like Paul Cogan and 

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stuff. 
And so I remember I asked for 

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like a weight set for Christmas 
one year. 

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I got it. 
It was like the sand weights, 

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you know, and and I just took it
really seriously. 

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I did what it said on the box 
like just which was like I 

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forget what it told you to do, 
like you had to do at least 10 

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reps or or it wasn't going to 
help. 

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So I did everything for like 10 
sets of 10. 

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I did like ten sets of 10 bench 
and ten sets of 10 shoulder 

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press every single day for 
probably like three years before

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I started and I'm Rose too but I
didn't even really start 

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training legs. 
So I was about 15 or 16 and I 

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had a rough upbringing, you 
know, I mean I was thrown out of

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schools and I got, I was on 
probably my 4th high school and 

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I got a teacher that was a 
teacher coach named Jim Davis 

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who had like power powerlifting 
program at TCA, which was the 

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name of the school and just 
maybe 1996 to give you an idea 

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at the time, 9595. 
And so I noticed that I was like

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and I had noticed prior like 
earlier in life that I was 

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stronger than other people 
because of lifting weights. 

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You know, like I realized, like,
I remember there was one point, 

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another kid I worked with in my 
neighborhood worked out with, He

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would come work out in my 
basement with me. 

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And his brother was like way 
older than us and way, way 

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bigger than us. 
And like we used to call him 

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Captain Kingman, you know, to 
give you an idea what he looked 

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like, he was just like this big 
like CRO Magnon looking dude. 

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And we got him in the bench 
press with us. 

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And I'm doing my like ten sets 
of 10. 

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And the kid, Chris was doing 
his, he was like a little less 

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weight. 
And then like with my weight was

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on there. 
And then his brother was like 

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going to try and game one time 
and he was going to jump in with

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my weight. 
And he literally just like, 

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couldn't get it. 
Like he's like help. 

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I can't get it off of me. 
Like, we had to pull it off of 

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him. 
And I was like, it was the first

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moment where it like, clicked. 
I was like, this works, you 

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know, Of course, as a kid I'm 
like, I've got to be stronger 

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than everybody. 
And so I didn't, I didn't stop 

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lifting, but I got in a lot of 
other trouble. 

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I did wrestling before I got 
kicked out of one school that I 

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was in did did pretty good with 
wrestling. 

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And then eventually I met Jim 
Davis guy, the coach who was 

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like a teacher coach. 
He got me into where it was like

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competitive where we would there
was records in the school for 

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bench records and stuff. 
I benched like 300 lbs. 

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I was 16300 lbs actually when I 
was 16. 

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So like that was the best thing 
I'd ever done in the school. 

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But there was another kid who 
was like a huge kid and he was 

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pretty close and he ended up 
like beating it a couple times. 

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So that really pushed me. 
And like, what happened was they

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would announce over the speaker 
in school, they'd be like the 

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the bench press record has been 
broken by whoever. 

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And there's this kid Bryan, who 
he was very close and he would 

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break the records on a couple 
things. 

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It was also like at a debit 
record too. 

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And for a while he was close, 
like around this time. 

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And every time he would break 
it, before they would announce 

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that he had beat me, Coach Davis
will come and like, pull me out 

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of class and be like, yo, do you
want to try? 

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And you know, Brian, Brian broke
your record. 

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You want to try and break it 
again before they announce it. 

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And then they could be waiting 
to hear. 

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And then it would be like, it 
would say that I broke my own 

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record. 
It's like he would never get it 

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And like, it got him more and 
more frustrated. 

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And I think that the coach was 
trying to motivate him to keep 

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going. 
But instead eventually he just, 

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he quit. 
And by the time I was 18, I 

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betched 400 lbs. 
That's crazy. 

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Yeah, so it was it was cool. 
Yeah. 

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And I was pulling 600 lbs. 
Like, you know, my squat wasn't 

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anything miraculous, you know, 
it was like 5 or something like 

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that. 
But for a guy in my size at that

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time, that's still pretty 
strong. 

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I was about 200 lbs so. 
Yeah, it's funny. 

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That's what got me into the 
powerlifting side of it, and 

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after that is when I pursued 
Bodybone. 

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But what were you saying? 
Yeah, that's funny. 

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Like I'm like the complete 
opposite. 

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Like I'm I'm just starting to 
approach 400 on bench. 

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I just hit six on deadlift, I 
think on Halloween actually. 

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But my squat, my squat's just 
been always my lift like and 

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cleans too. 
But I mean I don't do that 

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anymore. 
I'm not. 

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I did call it football, but I'm 
no longer and I'm still a 

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powerlifting athlete. 
I guess if you want to call that

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an athlete, but no. 
But I I so my coach Kirby 

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Goodrich. 
I don't know if you've heard the

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name. 
I believe he uses some of like 

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the 5th set methodologies for 
like bench especially and I feel

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like I've been getting a lot out
of it so. 

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That's. 
Awesome. 

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So I'm, I'm ready to dive into 
some of the I guess starting 

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with the creation of it, but 
definitely get into some of the 

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details. 
But I guess before we get into 

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that, talk about a little bit 
about maybe some of your 

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competitions when you decided 
that coaching was more of your, 

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he thought was more fitting of a
role for you and things like. 

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That absolutely. 
So by the way, I got to mention 

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I did always did power cleans 
always, Even through 

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bodybuilding. 
Even into my 20s, I was doing 

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power cleans and then eventually
I went to prison. 

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I was doing power cleans in 
prison. 

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I never stopped doing power 
cleans until I was probably in 

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my 30s. 
So it was something that I just,

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I always like held it. 
I felt like in order to be able 

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to actually perform, you better 
be able to power clean, insanely

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heavyweight, like probably, you 
know, close to as much as you 

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can press. 
Yeah, I agree. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So basically I started to do 

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competitions in high school for 
powerlifting. 

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They were like the AAU, whatever
high school, whatever you do for

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that. 
That gave me some exposure to 

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that sort of competition that I 
liked when I was still young. 

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I started doing bodybuilding, 
but so I had ones I got out of 

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high school and I just, I felt 
like, see, at this time you also

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got to keep in mind 1998. 
No one cared about raw lifting. 

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There wasn't. 
There wasn't raw lifting. 

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I mean, technically people would
compete raw, but they were just 

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that meant you took off your 
suit and belt and they, you 

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know, I mean it was like you 
were doing it to be a hard ass. 

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In fact, I remember being at a 
meet and like we had shirts that

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other people on the team would 
use. 

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It was like community shirts and
and I was like, they made me 

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like I couldn't press as much 
with them on, you know? 

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And I remember Kurt saying to 
me, like, that's OK. 

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He's like, that's called a raw. 
That's what hard asses do. 

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And I was like, dude, that was 
like a moment. 

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A switch flipped. 
I was like, that's right, I'm 

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raw from now on. 
I continued that for quite some 

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time, obviously into my 40s. 
But then I then I got interested

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00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,000
in the bodybuilding bug sort of 
bit me. 

226
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,080
I wanted to, like, I felt like I
was able to dominate the 

227
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,160
strength stuff very easily, even
at a relatively low body weight.

228
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,840
Because, I mean, I'm tall, I'm 
6/2, so I was not a large guy 

229
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:05,960
when I was hitting those 
numbers. 

230
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,760
I was, it was kind of like, 
how's this guy doing this? 

231
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,800
You know, like, so I had, I must
have had a decent amount of, 

232
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,440
like, speech strength, just 
genetic speech strength, you 

233
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,160
know, the ability to like turn 
on those motor units. 

234
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,480
And I think that's something 
that over time, maybe less and 

235
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:23,960
less, you know, as you get 
older. 

236
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,920
But definitely in the beginning 
it gave me like coming out of 

237
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,960
the gates. 
It gave me like an advantage in 

238
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,480
that way. 
Bodybuilding taught me how to 

239
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,120
control my body. 
That's really, it was a it was a

240
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,320
spiritual practice for me. 
It was like an aesthetic 

241
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,120
practice, like being in calorie 
deficit was intentional 

242
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,720
suffering. 
It was like something that I 

243
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,480
could, it was like medicine for 
me, you know? 

244
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:52,880
I mean, at that time of my life,
I was just mentally, I was in a 

245
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,400
state of chaos. 
Like I was studying, reading as 

246
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,160
much as I could. 
I was remember I was studying 

247
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,080
Nietzsche at the time. 
Like, if you can think of, like 

248
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,040
coming in their late teens, 
living on their own in an 

249
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,120
apartment, like reading 
Nietzsche and lifting weights, 

250
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,840
that was. 
That's basically where I was at.

251
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,080
And I did my first bodybuilding 
competition. 

252
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,640
I was a team and I won for my 
class and I was like, as soon as

253
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,000
I start, I wasn't sure if I'll 
be able to handle it the whole 

254
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,360
time, you know? 
But I was like, I'm not going to

255
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,280
embarrass myself. 
At least you know what I mean. 

256
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,040
But I didn't know if maybe 
getting on the stage I wouldn't 

257
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,560
be able to handle it. 
But I was like, wait, this is 

258
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:36,720
good And I liked it. 
Like as soon as I did it, I 

259
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,120
realized I liked it and all the 
build up to it and so forth. 

260
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,160
So I did a number of contests 
over the next seven years and 

261
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,120
got to like a top national 
level. 

262
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,680
My best finish was 10th place as
a super heavyweight, not a 

263
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,520
national level contest, so 
that's pretty good. 

264
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,280
Yeah. 
That's awesome. 

265
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,080
Yeah. 
At that time too, it was, it was

266
00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,560
different than it is now. 
It was highly competitive at 

267
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,720
that time. 
Like these the guys that the 

268
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,680
Super heavyweights were 
basically look like the top pros

269
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,880
in terms of conditioning. 
Now you know, this is the era of

270
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,360
like Craig Titus and you know, I
don't know if you remember if 

271
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,640
you followed bodybuilding at 
all, but during that period it 

272
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,840
was very, very intense, very 
competitive. 

273
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,600
And so Dave Palumbo was 
something of a mentor to me, 

274
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,320
Greg Kovacs, also a mentor. 
These were like mass monsters. 

275
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,400
They were, this was the early 
2000s mass monsters. 

276
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,120
It was a period of time where it
was just like, let's see how big

277
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:41,280
humans can get. 
Dave was like 5-7 and 315 lbs 

278
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,560
with NO0 body fat like stage 
ready at one point. 

279
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:50,920
And I mean I got up to about 
3:30 but I'm 62 so it still was 

280
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,800
a far cry from him. 
And Greg was 63 and he would be 

281
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,800
over 400 lbs in shape just. 
And he did. 

282
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760
He did some. 
I was just talking about this in

283
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,520
a question that I answered. 
He did some of the most 

284
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,560
impressive, most insane lifting 
I've ever seen human being do. 

285
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160
Still to this day in my life, 
I've never seen it will come 

286
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,560
close. 
Like I'm talking 7 plates on 

287
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,520
incline for reps. 
That's crazy. 

288
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,360
Dude, just like wait, what? 
Like how? 

289
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,800
Like your head that doesn't 
understand, like if this doesn't

290
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,040
compute, it doesn't seem like 
and going to buffets with him. 

291
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,240
Like walk behind him, it'll be 
like walking behind the white 

292
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,200
Godzilla. 
He would have two plates in his 

293
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,200
hand and his little wife would 
have another plate and his lats 

294
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,080
would just be like hanging in 
front of me. 

295
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,200
I'm like, I can remember 
thinking the only reason I got 

296
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,440
so big was because of 
surrounding myself with those 

297
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,240
people. 
But I realized I was like no 

298
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,760
matter how big you get, you're 
still small. 

299
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,320
Yeah, that's kind of, that's 
kind of where I'm at. 

300
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,160
Like the the two guys I trained 
with, I trained up at Evolve in 

301
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,720
Worcester and one of them is 
665350. 

302
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,800
And then I don't know if you 
know who John Ropo is, he's he's

303
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,080
like 511, but he's like 320 
right now. 

304
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,400
So. 
So I'm, I'm 62, like 2:45 to 

305
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,880
2:50. 
So I'm like, I'm larger than 

306
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,360
your average person, but you 
hang around those people, you 

307
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,520
just feel like a child and and 
the amount of food they eat is 

308
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,080
just absolutely insane. 
Like, I'm like, how are you not 

309
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,160
sick to your stomach all day? 
It's something that like I'm 

310
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,920
trying to learn to eat and like,
I want to get up there. 

311
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,600
I'm thinking I'd be like a good 
275. 

312
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,360
But I think past that point like
I I couldn't hang. 

313
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960
Dude, you got at a certain point
it becomes, that's the job, is 

314
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,160
eating like every like showing 
up to of course going to the gym

315
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,040
to great. 
When you weigh over £300, that's

316
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,360
the only part of that you don't 
hate. 

317
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,720
But the rest of it is just 
eating and being a misery and 

318
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,960
pain. 
You know, like everything hurts.

319
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,800
It hurts to move. 
Like you know, it's it's it's a 

320
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,080
process. 
And then like I said, I would 

321
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,280
take enzymes like 3 * a day to 
help with digestion and like it 

322
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,000
was kind of a lot of it will be 
liquid. 

323
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:01,160
I did the chicken shake diet for
years and you know, just 

324
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,400
anything I could do to help with
exactly what you're saying. 

325
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:10,040
Digestion, you know. 
And now I'm now I'm old and you 

326
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,480
know, I still, if I don't keep 
my foot on the brake, like I 

327
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,920
feel like my body wants to be 
large still. 

328
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,280
So like, I have to like for 
example, I was 240 for last the 

329
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,160
whole last year I decided I 
would stay in that range, 240. 

330
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,520
I got down to 40. 
I hadn't seen since I was like 

331
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,280
like in the era we're talking 
about like pretty bodybuilding. 

332
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:36,640
And then I just basically I do 
now, I do three days a week to 

333
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,520
four days a week of deficit and 
the rest of the time I eat in 

334
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,440
surplus and I'm up to almost 
270. 

335
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,320
It's just it's just the body 
just wants to keep doing it. 

336
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,280
You get to a certain point like 
it's like a program, you know, 

337
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,280
it's like it just wants to be 
that size, like how many spaces?

338
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,360
Yeah, it's funny. 
It's kind of like something 

339
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,640
that, kind of like, it's like 
every like 20 lbs you gain, your

340
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,560
body gets comfortable like 10 
lbs lighter. 

341
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,160
So you kind of got to, you keep 
on bumping up and then letting 

342
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,800
it come back down. 
Because I got up to like I was 

343
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,680
like 253 a couple weeks ago and 
like that was like the heaviest 

344
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,640
I got. 
And my body was just started 

345
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,440
like rejecting the weight. 
I dropped to like 243 like in a 

346
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,720
week and a half. 
And I was like, what? 

347
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,280
What happened? 
It's like my body's, my body's 

348
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,280
just not ready to be there yet. 
But slow, slow process. 

349
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,400
Most people won't get there. 
You have to have that. 

350
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,359
You have to have a certain 
mentality to get to crazy body 

351
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,800
weights that are like beyond 
what your normal what you would 

352
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,440
want from hunger, you know. 
And like my my screen name. 

353
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,480
Now we're going, I'm, I'm dating
myself here because there was no

354
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,440
real, like Internet as we know 
it now. 

355
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,640
It's like basically like chat 
rooms and e-mail. 

356
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,560
You know what I mean? 
So so basically my screening was

357
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,040
300 lbs of death and that was 
like straight through for like 5

358
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:56,120
years until I was I probably 
went from I was 176 and 1/4 at 

359
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,320
the bodybuilding show the first 
one I did so I was a middle 

360
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,520
weight and and then at my 
heaviest I was probably 280 in 

361
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,320
contest shape so that's like 330
offseason it's. 

362
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,680
Like a whole nother human, yeah?
Exactly. 

363
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,400
It's like another person you're 
carrying around. 

364
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,960
Take double. 
And, I mean, I felt like it. 

365
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,640
It still, you know, it makes a 
big difference. 

366
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,440
I used to fantasize about sleep 
like I'd be, like be like 

367
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,600
leaving the house at like noon 
and like just be like, I can't 

368
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,680
wait to go. 
That's going to feel, to lay in 

369
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,680
bed. 
Your body's just. 

370
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,800
It's so expensive to move, yeah.
It's like an OverDrive, 

371
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,120
overheating and like now 
everyone every like everyone 

372
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:41,560
pretty much 275 plus it's like 
they got a CPAP and they got to 

373
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,000
make sure their rooms like 5° or
they're not going to be able to 

374
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,800
sleep. 
Yeah, yeah. 

375
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,840
I didn't. 
We didn't have Cpaps back then. 

376
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,120
I do now. 
Thank God. 

377
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,840
But yeah, that was before the 
era of everyone having a CPAP. 

378
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,520
Like, dude, I had issues with 
that for so many years before I 

379
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,920
realized like, oh wow, it's 
probably 2015 before I got a 

380
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,760
CPAP and I wish I could was 10 
years earlier than that. 

381
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,480
I thought you that much because 
it made a major difference for 

382
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,160
me. 
Yeah, for sure. 

383
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,720
I mean like I feel like I said, 
everyone has one now and they're

384
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,120
very easy to get and it's just 
another tool to help you get 

385
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,920
like recoveries. 
Recovery wasn't as prioritized 

386
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,400
back then. 
It was just keep going pretty 

387
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,480
much go till the wheels fall off
and now it's let's see how long 

388
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,840
we can keep the wheels on the 
track. 

389
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,520
So I feel like the mindset shift
has kind of been a huge part in 

390
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,560
the elevation of both 
powerlifting and bodybuilding. 

391
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,720
Oh, for sure. 
I mean, like there was 

392
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,440
definitely that you better do 
your due diligence to recover, 

393
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,040
but it was more like you better 
not skip a meal. 

394
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,200
Well, you better not get less 
sleep thing you're supposed to 

395
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,680
get. 
Yeah, stuff like that. 

396
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,280
Like you better not get up 
early. 

397
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,440
You better not walk across the 
gym fast. 

398
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,040
It was stuff like that. 
Like if you do cardio, it better

399
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,520
be under 3 miles an hour. 
Anything like that. 

400
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,360
That was the Those were the 
rolls back then. 

401
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,200
Yeah. 
So I guess we can start getting 

402
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,800
into a little bit about fifth 
set. 

403
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,080
Kind of what? 
When did it first like come into

404
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,080
play? 
Where did the name come from and

405
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,760
kind of what was like the the 
vision with it? 

406
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,360
So fist set was, well, I'm going
to have to back up a quick 

407
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,520
second here. 
So I went to prison when I was 

408
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:27,400
young, in my early 20s, and 
while I was in prison, I was in 

409
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,120
state prison for a few years 
while I was there. 

410
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:32,840
That was where I developed fist 
set. 

411
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,560
So I had access to books that 
people would buy me and send me.

412
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,280
Because you're allowed to, like,
send people books. 

413
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,840
You just have to buy new ones 
that are in jail. 

414
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,040
And I had access to everything 
that was in the library, which 

415
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,360
was minimal, you know, But I had
already been interested in 

416
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,880
sports science and what the 
Russians were doing and stuff 

417
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,240
like that, you know? 
So, like, that was something 

418
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,560
that, I mean, obviously at this 
point we're far into my lifting 

419
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,960
career. 
I'm probably 10 years in. 

420
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,240
It wasn't like I just started 
lifting and then went to jail. 

421
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,720
So I was already very, very well
invested. 

422
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,240
And it was like, it was part of 
who I was. 

423
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,920
And yeah, I trained really hard 
in jail. 

424
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,200
That was basically like training
and writing. 

425
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,760
I've always been the two staples
that hold me together, you know,

426
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,560
in terms of things that I can 
control myself anyway, you know,

427
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,120
those were like mechanisms. 
They were coping mechanisms for 

428
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,800
me. 
So I focused on what could we do

429
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,200
with what we have available 
here. 

430
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,800
I wrote about it in the books, 
the coaching manual covers. 

431
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,440
That's probably the best if you 
want to learn the story of first

432
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,120
set. 
That's the most information and 

433
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,680
background that you'll get. 
The prison that it was in and so

434
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,560
forth. 
I've actually, you know, thank 

435
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,040
God I've had the opportunity to 
rent the prison that I did my 

436
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,200
time and like because it was 
closed for human rights 

437
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,920
violations. 
There were all sorts of issues 

438
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,280
there. 
Man. 

439
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,120
It was bad. 
Bad deal with bad place. 

440
00:21:54,360 --> 00:22:00,160
And to some someone private 
bought it and I saw someone just

441
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,080
somehow happened to come across 
my path that I was able to rent 

442
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,200
it for photography. 
And I am a photographer. 

443
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,040
So I was like OK so I just set 
up like I was doing a photo 

444
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,400
shoot for the day and I went and
I'm actually I've been working 

445
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,600
on a book about that whole 
experience and process. 

446
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,320
But that's where in that prison 
is where the origins of first 

447
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,800
set lie. 
And from there I got out and I 

448
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,840
continued to try to. 
I mean, I tested it and kept 

449
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,960
really good records with people 
that I had that were my. 

450
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,400
I had like a training group in 
there of about nine guys. 

451
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,840
And so it was like, you know, 
when you're pretty jacked in 

452
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,600
jail, everybody's like, all 
right, what do we do? 

453
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
So I had a group that was 
basically that was my group. 

454
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,520
And you know, some people would 
fall off like they would abuse 

455
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,760
them until they were just, you 
know, it was kind of survival of

456
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,280
the fittest in that way. 
So to be fair, at first, it was 

457
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,840
probably people that had better 
genetics that survived. 

458
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,360
So for the first batch, 
everything wasn't optimal. 

459
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,560
And I just kind of whittled 
away. 

460
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,600
I played with it and eventually 
I got out to where I am now in 

461
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:16,360
Western PA and I had a full team
of people to work with and coach

462
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,720
lifters online, you know, 
probably since 2010. 

463
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,560
So it's a long time at this 
point and throughout most of 

464
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,680
that period I've had anywhere up
to 30 lifters that I worked with

465
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,320
individually. 
So like, that's my full time 

466
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,760
job, you know, Even when I'm not
working with someone at the gym 

467
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,520
at the moment, I'm doing 
coaching or teaching using 

468
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,320
various resources that I have 
for online. 

469
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Like I'm sure you've seen some 
of my coaching videos I did for 

470
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,480
Elite FTS for bench press, 
things like that. 

471
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,160
So those things are the main 
reason. 

472
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,280
The main benefit to me to make 
those is that I use them with my

473
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,480
clientele. 
It's cool because I'll be out of

474
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,720
meeting. 
Someone comes out to me and goes

475
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,840
like, hey, you don't know me, 
but you taught me how to bench 

476
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,640
press. 
And I'm like, Oh well, great, 

477
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,400
you know, cool. 
I love hearing stuff like that. 

478
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,600
I love to be helpful to people 
that I don't have in my sphere, 

479
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,280
my typical sphere of influence 
in the way we might normally 

480
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,000
think. 
Like, I don't see them 

481
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,200
day-to-day or we don't have any 
real interaction, but they still

482
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,040
are able to benefit from 
something that, you know, 

483
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,440
something that I did, which is 
that that's a great feeling for 

484
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,320
me. 
That's the best motivation to 

485
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,960
continue to do this. 
That's really the only 

486
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,960
motivation I have to continue to
do this at this point is that I 

487
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,960
want to help people. 
I want to see them do good. 

488
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,960
And, you know, so that's the 
beginnings. 

489
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,000
That's how it started. 
It progressed eventually. 

490
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,600
I wrote a book. 
My friend Vinny Vicenza, you 

491
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,520
might have heard of him. 
He benched 603 weight classes 

492
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,040
raw. 
He read the book and he was 

493
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,080
like, can I show you? 
He shows to Dave Tate. 

494
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,280
And I was like, yeah, and he 
shared it to Dave. 

495
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,200
And Dave was like, dude, first. 
It was like a whole process that

496
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,040
I won't get into behind the 
scenes of us of interviewing and

497
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,680
questions and and stuff. 
But you know, I mean, I love 

498
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,600
Dave. 
He's a great guy. 

499
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,600
I love Elite and what they stand
for. 

500
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,480
It's been a good partnership 
with them from the from the 

501
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,320
outset. 
And yeah, they they made the big

502
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,200
a big difference in terms of 
that book taking off the first 

503
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,600
one, which the first one was 
just not for people that wanted 

504
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,560
to do power after meets and not 
have a coach. 

505
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,160
You know, because I I would 
coach at meets and and some of 

506
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,560
the stuff you see is like mind 
boggling dude. 

507
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,280
Like you see I feel so bad and 
you don't want to go up to 

508
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,440
strangers and be like listen, do
this, you know, I'm always 

509
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,560
there. 
I got offer if someone wants 

510
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,240
help, but they see just 
avoidable mistakes that it sucks

511
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,080
when someone trains for six 
months and they get, they get 4 

512
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,680
minutes on the platform and they
blow it, you know, six months of

513
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,400
training and it's just it's just
avoidable stuff. 

514
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,920
So the whole point of that book 
was just to make a pared down 

515
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,920
method of training a version of 
this set, even not even the full

516
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,320
version, because even then I was
using sequence system and things

517
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,520
like that with my own clients. 
It was meant to be just a 

518
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,320
simplified version. 
And that book did amazingly 

519
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,920
well. 
It was very well received, and 

520
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,880
it made it clear that people 
would at least listen if I told 

521
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,960
them the rest. 
And that's when I did a 

522
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,040
subsequent sort of update called
Evolutions, which was just 

523
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,360
basically everything that had 
happened since, you know, jail, 

524
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,200
for example, like this. 
The changes that were that made 

525
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,440
it more a little bit more 
sophisticated and slightly more 

526
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,240
effective for especially for 
certain groups. 

527
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,360
And yeah, so there was that. 
Then I eventually did the 

528
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,760
coaching manual, which is a 
textbook for the certification 

529
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,360
course. 
I have a good number of 

530
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,640
certified Festech coaches, you 
know, throughout the United 

531
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,120
States and different places that
run the method with their 

532
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,480
clients. 
And like you're saying, even 

533
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,040
even it's people that use other 
methods too, having that, like 

534
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,560
your coach might work something 
in where they understand 

535
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,800
something about the methodology 
because it's it's a complete 

536
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,680
methodology. 
You know, it's a, it's a 

537
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,720
globalized training system. 
It's a holistic approach. 

538
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,400
It's not like, oh, we'll just do
this, you know, it's it's 

539
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,960
everything effects, everything 
else. 

540
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,760
If this, then this, if this, 
then this. 

541
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,000
It's, you know, it's sort of an 
equation in that way. 

542
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,880
Yeah. 
And I feel like that's kind of, 

543
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,560
I guess, kind of similar in like
the way of Conjugate, I guess is

544
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,240
like there's so many approaches 
to it. 

545
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,920
But the overall idea of it in 
terms of the structure and 

546
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,480
methodology and the approach 
like you can be used in so many 

547
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,920
aspects. 
But as long as you're following 

548
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,240
like the the pillars of it, I 
would say it's going to work. 

549
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,400
And like I feel like especially 
in powerlifting, like you, if 

550
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,120
you, if you train your movements
properly and then you train your

551
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,520
accessories like a bodybuilder, 
I feel like you see the most 

552
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,440
success and kind of touching 
back on your point of like 

553
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,600
seeing someone at their first 
meet or like seeing someone 

554
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,760
there without a coach or trying 
to do it on your own. 

555
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,160
And like, as a coach now, it's 
like you want to go up to them 

556
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,200
and like, but you don't want to 
sound like you're trying to 

557
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,960
preach or you're just trying to 
make a quick buck to hire them. 

558
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,800
It's like you want to help them 
and it's kind of an interesting 

559
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,560
dilemma. 
Yeah, it is. 

560
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,960
It's yeah, see, I you know, 
look, I'm not definitely not 

561
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,800
trying to find clients that 
meets, you know what I mean? 

562
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,120
Yeah, I'm like a waiting list. 
So but if. 

563
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,360
But if I see someone who needs 
help, of course I'm going to 

564
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:21,680
help them. 
You know, I'm going to ask 

565
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,920
people with me to help, you 
know? 

566
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,880
Hey, come on guys, let's talk to
the person. 

567
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,280
They don't. 
You know what I mean? 

568
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,080
I just The thing is like that's 
how the sport was to me when I 

569
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,440
started. 
That's how everybody was. 

570
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,160
To me it was very different from
bodybuilding in that way and 

571
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,520
that everybody was really 
psyched to try to help you, you 

572
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,120
know what I mean? 
And whereas with bodybuilding it

573
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,560
was more like people. 
Yeah, it's like side eyeing each

574
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,200
other and like sizing each other
up, you know, It was very 

575
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,520
psychological, whereas this 
powerlifting, it was more of a 

576
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,840
like, let's see if you can break
yourself in half to do it. 

577
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,920
Yeah, it's great. 
Like you can hate some guy and 

578
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,040
you're still clap for him. 
Exactly, yeah. 

579
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Even if someone's competing with
like in your same weight class, 

580
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,560
same age, you still want, you 
don't want to see them fail. 

581
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Like powerlifting, bodybuilding,
it's like it's like the same 

582
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,160
side of the world, but in terms 
of like competitions that it's 

583
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,000
just so different. 
Totally, totally, totally. 

584
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,320
There's like, it's great, man. 
Like I've seen in powerlifting 

585
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,680
meets, like when there's groups 
of people that are together from

586
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,840
different teams, You know, it'll
be like some group from West 

587
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,120
Philly, you know, these days 
that I know, like know them from

588
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,440
West Philly. 
And then they'll be like this 

589
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,680
Catholic school team and like 
and then like you'll be like 

590
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,440
that people. 
Then like, you know, like 

591
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,880
people, well, well, people. 
And it's like it couldn't be 

592
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,200
more dramatically different 
between these different groups. 

593
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,680
But everybody's like, yeah, 
yeah, everybody would help each 

594
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,080
other. 
Everybody would cheer each other

595
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,360
on. 
You know it is, it's a it's a 

596
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,960
weird thing. 
It's like we're all the same in 

597
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,680
this way. 
It's like this thing we have in 

598
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,000
common that no one else does. 
Yeah. 

599
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,400
And. 
That's what I love about the 

600
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,240
sport. 
It's just the environment. 

601
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,640
It's awesome. 
Like even just outside of 

602
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,680
competitions, just training, 
like everyone's there supporting

603
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,280
each other and it helps everyone
grow, I guess. 

604
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,320
Kind. 
Of iron sport iron sport gym 

605
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,680
while I'm out here visiting and 
that's my old stopping ground. 

606
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Where I used to they had. 
We had total night on Friday 

607
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,280
night where everybody would try 
to total in the gym. 

608
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,680
It's a strongman Saturdays. 
Everybody's in the parking lot 

609
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,560
doing all this stuff. 
I came up with that man like 

610
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,360
with that very tight gym 
environment of people like a 

611
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,080
family. 
But I didn't mean to cut you 

612
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,720
off. 
I was just. 

613
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,120
No, you're good. 
I guess more into the 

614
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,520
methodology of fits that what 
are kind of some of the the main

615
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,360
pillars of the the method. 
So it is. 

616
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,760
It's a percentage based method 
of training. 

617
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,480
OK, It's a concurrent model for 
periodization. 

618
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,280
So in that way it's similar to 
to West side or conjugate or you

619
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,840
know 531 is concurrent. 
So we're training multiple 

620
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,120
capacities at once. 
We're not just you know working 

621
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,120
on one characteristic like say 
power or what have you 

622
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,360
hypertrophy or strength or you 
know. 

623
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:13,160
So we're concurrently training 
multiple characteristics, but 

624
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,600
we're doing so in a graded 
manner where it's rotated and 

625
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,720
like so for example in the MSM 
sequence system, which is that 

626
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,800
is my opinion on the ideal macro
cycle model for powerlifting. 

627
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,560
So essentially you're starting 
far out from the meet in like a 

628
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,800
mezzo one that will be more 
emphasis on volume on assistance

629
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,920
work like. 
So assistance work might be 

630
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560
mechanically similar, movements 
might be really higher, much 

631
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,960
higher volume. 
That would be something like, 

632
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,920
you know, safety bar squats or 
front squats or something like 

633
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,120
that, right. 
And that would be done after the

634
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,960
main work. 
The main work protocols also 

635
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,240
rotate and they gradually 
crescendo in intensity. 

636
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,920
As we get closer, volume of 
course gradually drops 

637
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,600
throughout those mesocycles. 
Intensity of course increases 

638
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:13,560
and that is surmounted by a 
peaking cycle which is begins 44

639
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,280
days out from a meet. 
The peaking cycle there is a 

640
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,400
sort of there's a taper, but 
first there's a peak and then a 

641
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,360
taper of course. 
So the idea is to preserve the 

642
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,040
capacities that we've developed 
throughout the course of the 

643
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:38,280
some of the previous macro cycle
and also drop central fatigue 

644
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,560
during that last period there. 
So you're able to express that 

645
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,720
level of fitness being strength,
strength being that that 

646
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,720
characteristic of fitness that 
we're trying to express that 

647
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,280
power that they meet. 
So there's that and that's a 

648
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,800
that's like a high level 
overview of of how it works. 

649
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,160
There's a ton of specifics if 
you have any specific questions 

650
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,000
I don't like. 
For example, MSMS are a big 

651
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,400
staple. 
Maybe that's something I should 

652
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,880
touch on, which is mechanically 
similar movements, but that's 

653
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,000
what we call secondary movements
in a fist set. 

654
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,080
And the reason for that is not 
just because you want to sound 

655
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,080
fancy or something, but because 
it's it's a priority that we 

656
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,560
prioritize movements that are 
mechanically similar to the 

657
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,160
competition left right for 
reasons of dynamic 

658
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,560
correspondence between those 
two. 

659
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,520
Things that are more 
mechanically similar tend to 

660
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,840
have better dynamic 
correspondence than things that 

661
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,200
are even if they train the same 
muscle, you know it's like so 

662
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,120
you can do leg extensions and 
leg curls and it's not going to 

663
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,920
give you the same carry over 
into squat as front squat is you

664
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,200
know what I mean? 
So and that's that's my feeling.

665
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,400
So and also gradually or I'd say
to generalize, make a 

666
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,320
generalized statement about 
MSMS. 

667
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,240
They are typically a reduced 
range of motion version. 

668
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,640
If they're not, if emphasis 
isn't dramatically changed, like

669
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,040
front squat changes usually 
pretty dramatically from a back 

670
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,920
squat, although they're 
mechanically very similar. 

671
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,600
The load being in the front 
changes the mechanics a good 

672
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,400
bit, you know the load a good 
bit where the load is 

673
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,920
distributed. 
And so in other movements like 

674
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,560
for example at deadlift, we 
might do something like block 

675
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,560
pools for bench press, we might 
do something like board press. 

676
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,280
And the reason for that is 
you've been doing so well. 

677
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,480
I'm sure you've seen plenty of 
bench press injuries, right? 

678
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,800
Where do you think most injuries
occur during a bench press on? 

679
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,360
The chest. 
Yeah. 

680
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,719
On the chest on reversal, right.
So of course when we're far into

681
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,920
a workout where we've already 
done a good amount of intense 

682
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,719
volume, we can just leave then 
or you know something that's 

683
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,440
also going to be very, very 
mechanically similar. 

684
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,760
In fact, you can even train path
to be identical or a board press

685
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,760
as identical to your competition
press. 

686
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
So you're actually getting 
really good, really specific 

687
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,200
lockout work. 
And in a word, I would say first

688
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,280
set is about specificity. 
Yeah, it's kind of funny. 

689
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,520
I can now that you explain that 
like the MSMI can. 

690
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,200
I can see that in my 
programming. 

691
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,560
I think the the use of 
secondaries has been a major 

692
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,920
improvement in my overall lifts.
And it's something that I 

693
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,600
actually use in my programming 
now because I've seen the 

694
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,680
benefits from in just a few 
short months and I always knew 

695
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,920
secondaries were a thing, I 
never really knew how to 

696
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,880
incorporate them or what to do. 
But a lot of my secondary's are 

697
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,120
like it'll be like say I'm doing
SSP with chains it'll be after 

698
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,680
my working sets it'll be two 
sets of 10 to a high box and 

699
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,120
then or like bench it like let's
see yesterday I did a Max one 

700
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,920
board and then my I had two by 
10 to A2 board at like 270 and 

701
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,560
it's like you get that extra 
movement and like you said you 

702
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,080
can match path which I mean even
at an advanced level you you're 

703
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,680
never going to have a perfect 
bar path. 

704
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,200
So getting extra practice under 
heavy loads is a huge, huge 

705
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,440
help. 
Another similarity with a 

706
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,040
conjugate based model between 
the first set and the conjugate 

707
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,200
based model is that we both are 
going to be. 

708
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,040
And this is not not just between
us, but also any effective 

709
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,440
method of training. 
Conveniently, it's going to 

710
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,200
abide by the Prolepin chart, 
right? 

711
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,480
So if you look at the 
percentages, right, right. 

712
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,160
So you want to meet probably in 
that middle range. 

713
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,120
At least for powerlifting, I 
think the middle range is good 

714
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,920
and sometimes you can even go a 
little further. 

715
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,560
Now when you get towards 90s, 
that middle range is insane. 

716
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,240
But as you get lower in the 
percentages, you can go a little

717
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,800
bit further in terms of the 
total number of reps per 

718
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,640
session. 
But I like to meet or at least 

719
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,120
get close to meeting that the 
lower end of that center column 

720
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,160
for Prolapin with the main work,
right. 

721
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,880
So the lion's share of what 
we're doing should be the main 

722
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,640
work. 
Like Burkashansky said, I think 

723
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,920
that the most, the first 
movement that you perform should

724
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,280
be the thing that has the 
highest magnitude of demand. 

725
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,520
That should. 
And and if if it's not the if, 

726
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,240
if the highest magnitude of 
demand is not going to the main 

727
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,280
work, then maybe that's 
something else to talk about 

728
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,520
with your training. 
Because I think that's a that's 

729
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,080
a fatal flaw. 
You know, if you're like, oh, 

730
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,920
I'd rather work on bringing my 
packs up for a little bit. 

731
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,080
It's like if you're going to 
compete in a sport where you 

732
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,920
have 3 lifts, those lifts should
be getting trained hard, You 

733
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,200
know what I mean? 
That should be the top priority.

734
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:44,040
And so, yeah, that's basically, 
you know in a nutshell that's 

735
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,200
the thinking behind this. 
And that is, there's a lot of 

736
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,400
things like this that are going 
to, you're going to see any 

737
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,320
effective method of training 
shares. 

738
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,040
Yeah, yeah. 
And I think a huge part about 

739
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,120
God. 
So I I didn't really. 

740
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,320
I so I've been. 
I got certified through NSAM 

741
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,120
like a few years back and I 
worked out like a why to just do

742
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,560
like Gen. 
Pop because I always wanted to 

743
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,600
do like training. 
But now I'm kind of very 

744
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,400
specific on being a powerlifting
coach. 

745
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,520
And this podcast has kind of 
been helping, teaching me a lot,

746
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,360
having a coach my own being 
surrounded by all these people 

747
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,400
and I think being able to pick 
and choose different 

748
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,840
methodologies and kind of 
incorporate them into your own 

749
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,440
and see how they work. 
I mean obviously everything's an

750
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,160
experiment. 
I'm not a perfect coach, no one 

751
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,960
is. 
But I I really like what I've 

752
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,240
been doing so far and I I do 
like the use of AR and I've been

753
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:38,160
using Prolipins chart for 
probably as long as I've been 

754
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,400
programming. 
And I think something that I 

755
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,800
wanted to ask you about is with 
the incorporation of AR, how 

756
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,560
does Prolipins chart or what 
have you seen in terms of 

757
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,880
Prolipins chart coordinating 
with that? 

758
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,680
That would depend on what type 
of accommodating resistance is 

759
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,520
for the most part, OK, because 
there are certain forms that are

760
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,240
extremely expensive. 
And and when I when I say 

761
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,600
expensive, I'm talking in terms 
of recovery. 

762
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,640
Here's a rule that you can say 
like this is my razor, this is 

763
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,480
the Sweet Burns razor. 
Every effective thing has a cost

764
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,520
equal to its efficacy, All 
right. 

765
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,880
So remember that and think about
it throughout your life and 

766
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,200
throughout the day. 
You're going to see how many 

767
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,480
times it's exactly on point that
whether it be drugs, drugs are 

768
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,960
effective, right? 
They are. 

769
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,440
They're very effective, but they
have a cost equal to how 

770
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,920
effective they are and you may 
not always see that and you 

771
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,760
certainly don't always see that 
on the front end. 

772
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,800
Same goes for bands and you know
and hyper intense forms of 

773
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,760
training, right? 
So, like, taking heavy 

774
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,120
negatives, things like that, 
right? 

775
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,200
Taking like walk outs where you 
have like 900 lbs in your back 

776
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,040
and you can always go out six 
things. 

777
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,760
Like, is it effective? 
I mean, it's going to cost you a

778
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,880
lot and you have to weigh that 
out. 

779
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,000
You know what I mean? 
It's like it's going to make me 

780
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,400
good at doing walk outs, but do 
I need to be that good at doing 

781
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,800
walk outs, considering how much 
it's of a detriment it is to 

782
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,000
something else. 
So that's the way I look at 

783
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,520
accommodating resistance. 
And you know, I'm a fan of 

784
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,520
change. 
I don't think there's anything 

785
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,320
wrong with change. 
I used them for many years. 

786
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,360
I've written a number of 
articles on this topic. 

787
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,440
I wrote an article for Actually 
RX Muscle magazine called. 

788
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,000
It was called like sweet 
strength, speech strength or 

789
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,680
something. 
It had to be like 15 years ago, 

790
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,760
but it was basically laying out 
like an outline of how to like 

791
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,760
what is an acceptable range to 
even start considering it. 

792
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
Because I mean, I see people 
that can't bench 100 lbs using 

793
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,320
bands and I'm like. 
Why? 

794
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,000
Why? 
You know what I. 

795
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,400
Mean. 
So there is there's a there's a 

796
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,360
time and a place for everything 
in. 

797
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,080
Within the the context of FISET,
the only time we use band 

798
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,600
tension is during a peaking 
cycle, and all the MSMS during a

799
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,040
peaking cycle are just full 
range movements with fan 

800
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,760
tension. 
So it's super specific to the 

801
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,360
competition and it just does the
same thing in terms of limiting 

802
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,960
the dangerous range of motion 
after doing the heavy stuff. 

803
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,800
So like you already might hit 
two singles over 90% during a 

804
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:14,480
peaking cycle and then your MSM 
might be 60% bar weight and 20%,

805
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,280
you know, and these are rough 
figures, they're up or down a 

806
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,800
little a band, a band tension, 
you know, for some a slight 

807
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,240
volume after that like like 
three sets of three or something

808
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,640
after that, you know. 
Yeah. 

809
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,920
And I feel like something that 
I've noticed more recently is 

810
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,360
like I'm starting to like change
a little bit more just because 

811
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,040
the I I tried to explain it to 
someone of like how obviously 

812
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,640
bar weights, bar weight, it's 
it's a linear, it's a flat base,

813
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,960
chains are a linear progression 
up to the top, but the bands are

814
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,600
exponential and I've noticed 
just how much more taxing they 

815
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:52,360
can be, even just holding. 
So expensive for your for your 

816
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,320
nervous system to adapt to that 
rate. 

817
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Now, do they help with 
reinforced development? 

818
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,200
Absolutely. 
But I feel like there's a 

819
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:02,360
pointed diminished return with 
that doesn't take long to get to

820
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,720
benefit from using the bands 
right, but it doesn't really 

821
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:09,400
continue to go up from there. 
So that's why we typically save 

822
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,160
it from before the meet. 
That's enough in my opinion. 

823
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,040
That's enough time for for 
bands. 

824
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,960
Now could you use, I would say 
chains make a little more sense 

825
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,280
if you were going to use 
accommodating resistance 

826
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,600
throughout the whole training 
cycle. 

827
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,520
But I think most of the work, my
this is my personal view. 

828
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,320
I think most of the work that 
you're going to do in training 

829
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,840
for competition should look the 
way that you're going to 

830
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,480
compete. 
So you know what I mean? 

831
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,000
So for squats, you should be 
squatting the way you compete. 

832
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,520
For bench, you should be 
benching the way you compete, 

833
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,360
you know. 
I mean, and I'm currently like 

834
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,840
in my offseason right now, but 
I'll be starting my peak and I 

835
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,080
think mid January because I'm 
competing in March. 

836
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,680
And like I've just been doing so
much SSB work and all these 

837
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,920
board presses and I absolutely 
hate the SSB because it humbles 

838
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,080
me to a whole different level. 
But I mean, it works and I've 

839
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,080
seen so much progress from just 
all the all these extra little 

840
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,160
tools, but you can get old. 
And that's all you can do. 

841
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:15,000
I can't even hold a bar on my 
back anymore. 

842
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,120
But like an SSD squad, I mean, I
did over 800 lbs over COVID. 

843
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,240
When we had that lockdown, I was
like that was became my goal and

844
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,000
I was just like squat twice a 
week. 

845
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,000
That was, you know, and but 
yeah, you can get really strong 

846
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,960
with that. 
But like I said, eventually some

847
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,240
at some point you end up, that's
all you can do. 

848
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,960
The same is true for Dave. 
I'm pretty sure. 

849
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,880
I don't think you can hold a 
straight bar on his back either 

850
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,920
anymore. 
Yeah, and I feel like some of 

851
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,760
these specialty bars, I've seen 
a couple of different approaches

852
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,960
to it, like specifically with 
the SSBI know some, some coaches

853
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,080
or some athletes will pretty 
much use the SSB until they're 

854
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,920
like 4 weeks out just to save 
their shoulders. 

855
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,240
But there's got to be a 
crossover to where if you're not

856
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,080
training the competition, lift 
close enough to the meet. 

857
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,160
It's kind of the movement 
pattern just going to be able 

858
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,040
to. 
Yeah, see, I think it's too 

859
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,680
different. 
I think there's too much of A 

860
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,960
departure from the competition 
left with SSB. 

861
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,320
Not to say that you're not 
getting benefit from it, but for

862
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,560
it to be the main form of 
training, you know what I'm 

863
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,480
saying? 
That's, I think it's it's the if

864
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,600
you can't hold that bar on your 
back, I mean you could, Like I 

865
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,040
said, you can get strong, you 
can get the worst squat and 800 

866
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,760
lbs at the safety bar. 
But if you can't hold that barn,

867
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,920
it makes you think you're going 
to be able to just hold it on 

868
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,320
your back when suddenly you have
to hold 800 lbs. 

869
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,680
That's most of the stress of the
squat is holding that weight on 

870
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:38,880
your back. 
Why do you think it affects your

871
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,840
bench press? 
So I'm watching a meet like 

872
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,560
whether or not like bench only 
guys compared to full power 

873
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,440
guys. 
It's a dramatic difference in 

874
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,200
night and day if you don't got a
squat first. 

875
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,360
But if you got a squat first 
that's hammered your shoulders 

876
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,000
and pecs holding that weight, 
you don't have that problem at 

877
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,080
all. 
It's all lats. 

878
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,360
When you're with the state to 
squat bar, you're just bracing, 

879
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,520
you know, it's totally 
different. 

880
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,800
So I think there's Don't get me 
wrong, I love safety squats, and

881
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,880
that's mainly all I can do now 
in terms of squats. 

882
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,160
So of course I do. 
I do the crap out of them. 

883
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:09,800
Yeah. 
You know what I mean? 

884
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,840
And I guess one of my, my final 
questions about fifth set is 

885
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,120
obviously you do coaching, but 
you have programs of your own in

886
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,440
terms of like modifications to 
maybe some of their programming 

887
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,120
or like the individualistic 
approach. 

888
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,000
What kind of is one of the main 
differences between like if I 

889
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,040
were to just run one of your 
programs or have you be my 

890
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,440
coach? 
In terms of programming, what's 

891
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,560
one of the main differences? 
Yeah, there's not a huge 

892
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,680
difference. 
It's not. 

893
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,880
I mean, like there's program 
that's going to be very similar 

894
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,880
to what if you buy a program for
me, it's going to be very 

895
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,720
similar. 
What I would have you, what I 

896
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,560
would have most people do. 
The difference is going to be 

897
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,440
individualization and just sort 
of tweaking everything as we go.

898
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,320
You deal with injuries, minor 
things come up throughout the 

899
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,400
course of the training year. 
I have at any given moment, I'm 

900
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,920
working around a bunch of little
LGS with my clients. 

901
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,400
You know what I mean? 
We're making minor adjustments 

902
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,880
here or there, just keeping 
people in the game and but yeah,

903
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,200
it's just a matter of for the 
most part, the programming is 

904
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,760
not a dramatic departure 
depending on how far away from a

905
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,280
meet you are. 
Like it's methodized. 

906
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,800
We have at this point, we have 
thousands of performances. 

907
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,840
We have a lot of data, bigger, a
bigger data pool than I've ever 

908
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,280
seen from anyone else. 
I'm not trying to toot my own 

909
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,040
horn, it's a fact. 
So I mean we and I didn't just 

910
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,320
take these things and not pay 
attention to what I was doing. 

911
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,160
I've kept very good records. 
I have very good information 

912
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,320
like that attempt selection 
protocol that we use the 9097 

913
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,240
one O 4 and one O 2/5 for bench 
that is I mean that's the gold 

914
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:48,720
standard at this point and that 
came from regression analysis of

915
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,640
looking at performance data who 
failed what made them fail. 

916
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,760
Now we're jumps greater than 8% 
there's a crazy deviation right.

917
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,960
When you make a jump greater 
than 8% it's crazy. 

918
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,880
It goes off the rails wildly 
quickly even with weights 

919
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,160
they've definitely done like the
likelihood of going from 90 to 

920
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,800
98. 
The likelihood of you missing at

921
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,040
98, you hit not that long ago, 
it's very high but you can hit 

922
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,920
97 and one O 4, you know and 
that's I mean and it's these are

923
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,400
we're like 80% for the average 
person over 90 for me coaching 

924
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,240
it. 
But with other people running 

925
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,520
the method and using the attempt
selection they still get over 

926
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,240
80%. 
I've had people, I've had people

927
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,960
that run totally different 
methods of training and just use

928
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,480
the data from the peaking cycle,
whatever kind of peaking cycle 

929
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,560
they did and my attempt 
selection protocols and they 

930
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,040
still get the same success. 
So I mean it's some of this 

931
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,520
stuff is I mean we're different.
Everybody likes to think they're

932
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,400
special, you know, It was an 
individual. 

933
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,040
But then we have a lot more in 
common than we do. 

934
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,560
That separates us and we have a 
much more in common than we do 

935
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,200
different between us, you know, 
in terms of our abilities as 

936
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,880
humans that we can learn from 
each other. 

937
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,880
You know more than there is that
whole idea of like you go to the

938
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,560
doctor and you got a heart. 
You're like, I don't know, I got

939
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,080
heart palpitations. 
He's like we're going to do an 

940
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:11,800
echocardiogram. 
You're like, I don't know if 

941
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,520
that's the right test for my 
heart though. 

942
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,200
It's the right shut up. 
It's the right. 

943
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,680
It doesn't matter what you think
we are in it's weird That's 

944
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,200
that's the sort of American 
characteristic that we all think

945
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,400
our opinion matters. 
Like we all think like, oh, I 

946
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,680
have a vote like no. 
You don't. 

947
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,720
Doesn't mean shit. 
Yeah, I mean like not when it 

948
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:35,240
comes to being right or wrong. 
I mean your your opinion is you,

949
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,400
you have the right to your 
opinion, but it's, you know, you

950
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,320
don't have the right to be 
correct for sure. 

951
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:41,360
You know what I mean? 
Yeah. 

952
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,320
So it's like, there is a lot, I 
don't think. 

953
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,520
I think there's far too much 
individualization in terms of 

954
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,600
the way people set up 
programming. 

955
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,600
And I think a lot of it is just 
guesswork. 

956
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,400
And they'll have people doing 
things like, Oh well, like today

957
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,160
I started training and I didn't 
realize how sore my triceps 

958
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,760
still were until I started 
pressing. 

959
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,440
And then as soon as I got weight
on my and I'm like, oh, and then

960
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,240
like, oh, here's an opportunity 
to pivot. 

961
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,680
Like, they'll make a a post 
about here's the thing, dude. 

962
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,400
Like, how do you not know that 
you're in that state of 

963
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,840
disrepair before you get to the 
gym like this your first week on

964
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,880
this new program? 
Or like, there's the person 

965
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,360
guessing that made-up the amount
of volume, the amount of 

966
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:28,040
intensity that you're applying 
to your training in a given, in 

967
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,280
a given period of time. 
The thing is we can use, we can 

968
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,040
generalize most things in 
training, you know, And when we 

969
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,200
get too far away from 
generalizing because you want to

970
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,360
be like I'm going to give you 
really good hyper specific 

971
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,320
programming that special 
attention, you're just wrong 

972
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,640
most of the time. 
You know what I mean? 

973
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,240
Because the further you deviate 
from that generalized approach, 

974
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:52,120
the likelihood that you're wrong
is goes through the roof. 

975
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,840
And that's not to say that you 
don't tweak and modify little 

976
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,440
things, but you know right is 
right. 

977
00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:59,960
Yeah, it's kind of like the 
whole idea. 

978
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,040
Like there's really no right or 
wrong way to train. 

979
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,480
But I mean, there definitely is 
a wrong way to train. 

980
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,240
Like there's there's way too 
much information out there for 

981
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,920
you to be trying this new guru 
shit to just be that special 

982
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,800
guy. 
Just use what you've learned. 

983
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,640
Read, read a book. 
Like, read a book. 

984
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,840
Learn some things. 
Take some things from them and 

985
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,080
see what like. 
You're still seeing what works, 

986
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,520
but you don't make up shit like 
take stuff that's been proven. 

987
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,360
I don't know about you, but like
for me, whenever I hear people 

988
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,840
say like, well, I'm waiting to 
see what my programming is for 

989
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,600
my coach this for this week. 
Because like, it's based on what

990
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,280
I did last week. 
And I'm like, if you don't know 

991
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,320
enough about a person in terms 
of their recoverability, 

992
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,040
adaptability, motor potential, 
the things that you know make 

993
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,640
them suck or be good at the 
sport that you're coaching them 

994
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,000
in to the point where you have 
to actually adjust each session 

995
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,360
based on the previous session. 
Like it's guesswork at that 

996
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,760
point. 
Like it's it's madness. 

997
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,560
I can lay out programming for 
someone that if I if I 

998
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,160
realistically this is the truth.
I can lay out two full meso 

999
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,880
cycles of programming and a peak
where just if this then this if 

1000
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,000
this then this right as far as 
that goes with V loads in the in

1001
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,440
the mix when they're scheduled 
right? 

1002
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:13,400
If this, then this and have no 
issues without 100 people, 98 of

1003
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,080
them have zero issues all the 
way to the meet. 

1004
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,880
You're telling me you're just 
going to guess on each 

1005
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,320
individual, make little 
adjustment. 

1006
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,360
I'm going to really optimize, 
right? 

1007
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,280
That's the thing, like I'm 
optimizing. 

1008
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,200
That's it. 
We got to make sure that I don't

1009
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,600
know if that's optimal. 
That's the new term. 

1010
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,800
That's like a big term in 
coaching. 

1011
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,160
Now I got to make sure this is 
optimal. 

1012
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,120
You're much more likely to make 
it suboptimal by changing things

1013
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,080
that have worked for thousands 
of people and. 

1014
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,000
For me my approach is like I so 
I program in like 2 week blocks 

1015
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,920
but but I have but you know. 
What's going on? 

1016
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,720
Yeah, I give them, yeah. 
Two weeks. 

1017
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:53,320
But I know what my plan for them
is 2 months. 

1018
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,120
Down the road that's a client 
retention thing also right. 

1019
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,040
You don't want to give people 
here here's a 12 weeks of 

1020
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,000
programming and they're like, 
all right Bob, so there's 

1021
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,680
there's definitely, I understand
there is that side of it, right.

1022
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,920
You have to you have to sort of 
titrate to some degree whether 

1023
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,040
it be with the programming or 
with the coaching. 

1024
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,600
The way that I handle that is on
the back end with the coaching 

1025
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,680
because I give direct video 
review to every one of my 

1026
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,680
clients. 
So like I I watch at least five 

1027
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,920
to seven sets of their training.
I watch every session and I give

1028
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,760
them feedback cues. 
We have a a movement correction 

1029
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,840
system using cues and I say need
to focus on this next time 

1030
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,120
through this, this, this, this, 
in this order. 

1031
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,800
Boom. 
I have a grading system. 

1032
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,400
Might be you got three out of 
four on this today. 

1033
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,720
Yeah. 
And I'm going to get four out of

1034
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:44,480
four. 
It means something, you know 

1035
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,240
what I mean? 
So there's something there is 

1036
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:48,040
they're getting value in that 
respect. 

1037
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,640
So it's not just that I'm, like,
hiding what the next secret 

1038
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,680
program thing is, You know, I do
know people like, you know, 

1039
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,920
friends of mine, you know, 
colleagues, people that do this,

1040
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,960
that like they don't give people
the next workout. 

1041
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,600
Yeah. 
I'm like, how do you, how, first

1042
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,880
of all, how are you 
micromanaging in someone's life 

1043
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,760
that much that every time they 
go to the gym you have to have 

1044
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,200
an interaction with them. 
Like what? 

1045
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,240
I mean, I can see how if you're 
doing personal training, but 

1046
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,560
that's not what coaching is. 
Yeah, it's so different. 

1047
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,440
You know, yeah, it's a different
deal. 

1048
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,320
Anyway, I'm getting a off off 
topic a little bit but. 

1049
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Yeah. 
So I guess, I guess we can kind 

1050
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,840
of wrap things up here. 
So I like to ask my question at 

1051
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,840
the end, but I'm going to kind 
of change it a little bit if so.

1052
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,400
I usually ask if you could give 
someone going into a new meet a 

1053
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,000
word of advice or like their 
first meet. 

1054
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,600
But I'm going to change it to if
you could give a coach a word of

1055
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,160
advice for maybe go into a first
meet for one of their athletes, 

1056
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:46,640
what would you say? 
Have them warm up for squat 

1057
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,000
early. 
Whatever you think they're going

1058
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,840
to squat, whatever you think a 
good time is, start 20 minutes 

1059
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,720
earlier than that, right? 
I think that's probably the 

1060
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:57,800
biggest issue I've seen new 
coaches run into. 

1061
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:03,080
And then also familiarize 
yourself with, with the order of

1062
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,560
operations in terms of the 
various lists and so forth. 

1063
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,720
Because I've seen people go up 
and they're staring at the 

1064
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,440
flight list and like they have a
teacher on this coach and 

1065
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,280
looking at it like it's a like 
it's a Rubik's Cube. 

1066
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,520
You know what I mean? 
Like understand what a flight 

1067
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,120
is, understand what attempts 
are, understand what a session 

1068
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,840
is, you know? 
So in other words, the the order

1069
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,400
of operations for me, the way 
things are supposed to go. 

1070
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,480
So you know what to expect. 
Because if you don't know what 

1071
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,000
you're doing, your client is 
going to be terrified, right? 

1072
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,000
Because they're like now my 
coach doesn't know what they're 

1073
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,160
doing. 
You know what I mean? 

1074
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,960
Whereas it's easy. 
And I would say the best thing 

1075
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,120
is get there early, Like I said,
start warming up. 

1076
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,320
I have people on the floor 
doing, doing bird dogs and, you 

1077
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:49,160
know, side bridges and all their
activation stuff way before they

1078
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,160
even get under the bar. 
And then they're under that bar.

1079
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,320
Hit the bar twice, have clients 
hit the bar twice to try to get 

1080
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,080
everything done. 
I would say try to have your 

1081
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:04,520
client ready 5 minutes before 
their flight starts. 

1082
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,480
Awesome. 
Think of it that way, right? 

1083
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,400
Because if they have to wait 15 
minutes, they're going to have 

1084
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,440
to wait 15 minutes between 
attempts anyway, right? 

1085
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,520
It's much better than having to 
do 2 quick warm ups and then run

1086
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,760
up on the platform for your 
opener of the first lift of the 

1087
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:19,800
day. 
Yeah. 

1088
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:24,600
So that would be my, you know, 
the short version of my life. 

1089
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,840
Awesome. 
I want to do, yeah, I want to 

1090
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,640
do. 
Thank you again for coming on. 

1091
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,640
It was a great conversation to 
have you on and looking forward 

1092
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,760
to stay in touch with you. 
Happy to help, man. 

1093
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,880
Yeah, please do keep in touch. 
For sure. 

1094
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,680
Thank you. 
You got it, man.