Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda
today, Theora? Today we have a super fun
episode where we're going to talk about Heart Stopper because
we love Heart Stopper so much that we're going to dedicate a
whole episode to talk about why we love this show.
So just as a disclaimer, this will not be a scene by scene
breakdown of the series. We've already done that.
If you want that, check out our channel, check out our podcast.
That's all there. But this is just solely about
why we love this incredible television show.
Yes, because 3 1/2 hours a week was not enough to talk about it.
It's never enough. And today we have Alethia
Crimmins joining us once again. You might remember her from our
Young Royals episode. And if not, after this episode,
go check that out because it was tons of fun and Alethea is a
great friend of the podcast and we're so excited to have you
back with us. I'm.
Glad to be back in the VA Energy podcast because I have big gay
energy so I'm ready to spread it.
Yes. Alethea brings all the energy to
this podcast and. I love y'all too, thank you so
much for having me back. Our pleasure, our pleasure,
alright. Should we just jump into it?
Caitlin? Let's do it.
Olivia, where do you want to start?
Yes. The biggest thing, Oh my gosh,
geez. I just feel like the like whole
story was just things that normal shows don't touch on,
like things that are taboo. It's it's like, oh, let let's
not talk about that. They went all in.
Like they went from gay issues to mental health issues to
eating disorders. It was like, wait, wait, wait,
wait, like you, you didn't know where to go to like identity
crisis. It's like, wait, wait, wait.
I, I, I thought that this was strictly a, this show, but now
it turned into a that show. And it's like, it just it, it
really pulls you in. And Charlie, it's, it's like you
want to give him a hug. Yes.
You, you. You just want to reach in your
screen, give him a hug and say you know what?
It's OK, it is OK. I need you to be you.
I I need you to be you. And it's OK.
It's like every scene I just, I was like, I just want to hug
you. But he had some amazing friends,
which I like. He had amazing friends that did
not care and like he would he was so nervous about being him
being himself, like can I really?
And that is something that I struggle with be before I came
out was like, will my will everybody accept me?
Like will they accept who I am? Like because and he's so
awkward, but in a but he he doesn't know that he's awkward
in a cool way. He he he doesn't really.
And that that that was me. Like I could relate because I I
was the awkward kid. I was the weird kid.
And but it was in a cool way that everybody else saw but him.
And it was like. But then he met Pic.
Dick, the puppiest puppy dog in human form.
And he was a jock. Yeah, like the cool guy.
He what? And it was like, and that, that
that was, that was also me like how, how could this cool Jack
like ever want to be with me? Like I'm, I'm like a nobody.
And that there's, there's Nick just just comes around and he
they, they, they, they do do his little shirt off scenes.
And it's like, OK, Nick. And and then Charlie does it.
And it's like, oh, Charlie just like, oh, you just look, look at
Charlie, Charlie's little chest. And it's like, oh, but but but
little, little did we know that he had an underlying issue.
Yeah, like we and that that didn't come out till late later
on that he had this issue that he was dealing with that he in
fact had an eating disorder. I don't, I don't recall.
I, I, I think that they touched on the, the root of of the
issue, which is a lot because I had one too.
And it's more about control, like this is something in my
life that I can control, like I can control how much I eat like
food. Food was almost the the like
enemy to him. And I, I, I felt extremely,
extremely, extremely bad for him because it was a lot of things
that teenagers and young young adults deal with.
So I'm so happy that this show kind of touched on all these
things that they don't really want us to talk to talk about,
but it needs to be talked talked about.
I what? What do y'all think about
Charlie? Well, I I Caleb.
You want to go. You go, you go.
OK, just a hard stopper in general.
They're just like, oh, this is something that people aren't
talking about, so let's talk about it.
And I love that. It's just, it's giving teenagers
a great thing to watch so they aren't constantly fed.
Oh, we don't talk about these things.
You're if you have issues with food, we just do not talk about
it. This one's like, oh, this, this
is something that people go through and you might think
you're alone, but you're not. And this is how other people can
support you as well. And the friend of in general is
just such a great support system.
Friends. Yeah, to your point, you're not
alone. Like I I can't wait to to talk
about the friends. But the friend like it does like
to your point at the beginning, Alethea like it.
You think it's one thing and then it turns into another like,
Oh, you're like, oh, it's just going to be a fluffy little
teenage romance, But it's not. It's so much, it's layered with
so much depth and all the characters are kind of going
through their own thing. And at the end of the day, it's
like about how like all these relationships, like romantic and
not how all of them are important and how we support
each other in different ways. Because like by the end, like
that group of friends is just so solid.
And that's like one of the most beautiful parts of the show for
me is the friend group is so supportive.
And like I was, I was really expecting like a like a love
Simon type was like, oh, that's, that's that's how this is going
to be. No, not at all.
Not even a little bit. Yeah, because you do start with
Charlie and just his relationship with Nick.
There's some other things going on, but you don't really get to
know the characters in depth. But it's also because they are
teenagers, they don't even know about themselves.
So as they're learning about themselves throughout the
seasons, you're learning more and it that's how we're getting
more depth to the stories is because that's what life is like
you go from. Having.
No worries and nothing as well as much to figuring out who you
are and realizing, oh, there's this is something that I need to
deal with or how do I talk to this person about this?
Can I even mention this and? Yeah, yes.
And then even who am I? Yeah.
That's what this wants. Speaking of figuring out who you
are and who am I, my favorite character is Elle that she is my
favorite character cause from from the start.
Now I must say as far as knowing who she is, L from the moment
she came on the scene till the moment she she knew exactly who
she was. She she had no doubt about her
and she was not ashamed of it. She never said 2nd guessed it.
She was never old. But let me try to like she knew
exactly who she was and I was so like, Oh my gosh.
Like we we also don't talk about that either.
But there were also things that as a trans woman, she was in
secure about and it kind of and especially when it came to
romance, I don't know if she felt like it seemed like she
felt like she didn't deserve to have a loving real relationship.
It's, it's almost like she, she didn't think that she can ever
have a real relationship and she would almost self sabotage
because she didn't think that she would actually have a real
relationship. But the relationship that she
had with how like that and that that that was enough.
He he was second guessing himself because he was like,
well, am I gay? Because, because I know, I know
looking at her, I know what I see, but I also know who she is.
So does that make me get so it was a lot of things that he was
playing with like does does that make me gay?
Because because, because I'm attracted to her because she's
she's L, but then then I also into her background.
So it's like so he was kind of like, should I shouldn't I
should I shouldn't I? And I think that Elle kind of
felt that too. And what what was was like,
look, if if you want to be with me, then be with me, but know
that this is who I am. And if not, do not play with me
little boy, because I don't have time.
Tao is the the straight boy we never thought we would root for
so hard. Seriously I Tao is the sweetest
person ever. He sees L as L.
It's like it's just L and he wants to be good enough for her.
And that was the cutest part. Like first of all, boy, you did
not have to try that hard. Very much appreciated.
We've tried a little too hard at times, but you can never say he
did not try. Remember he was trying to make
her dinner and he's like, doesn't know what he's doing.
And he's like cooking with two hands.
And he's like, I got this mom. I'm.
Like he'll burn my house down. And I loved how everybody's
parents were so like. My God.
Like, it's cute if this could be everybody's real life because I
don't know, like in the Asian community, because I have a lot
of Asian friends who are gay and their parents are like, we don't
like we don't. And to see that on TV, like
Tao's mom was like, get get your girlfriend like that, like.
I was like number. One checker.
Like, like I was like, I love his family.
I love his family. And I really loved when they
touched on 'cause I was like, look, I, I wanna have sex like,
like I want, I wanna do it. And, and like, and Elle was kind
of like, you know, how, how do we navigate through US do doing
this? And again, I've never seen ATV
show that touched on that. Like how do, how, how do I
navigate us, us having sex? Like I, I love you and I want to
take this next step, but how, how do we do that?
Like, how do we make ourselves comfortable doing that?
It's almost like heart stoppers, like what do people need to see?
So with like Tal's parents, Tal's mom being like so
supportive of this relationship to Elle's journey, navigating
intimacy because she's very confident and like knows who she
is. But this is a lot more intimate
experience where she is even more vulnerable and exposed,
quite literally. So this is something she hasn't
had to deal with at. All and what?
People go through. And like, to your point,
Alethia, like, I don't think Elle ever thought she'd have a
relationship that goes this far. And that's the other part where
she's like, well, now I'm in it. And this is like a Disney show.
I'm like, what do I do? Like, what do you.
Yeah. And, and like, I, like I, I
can't. I knew why she had kind of
started pushing, pushing him away, just just just just like a
like a cuz she she didn't know if, if this was real.
Like do you like, do you know? It was and that was the first
time I've ever seen her doubt herself.
It it was like, do do do you know who I am?
Like I like and you like, you're really wanting to be my
boyfriend. And I've never, I've never had a
boyfriend. So I don't know how to have a
boyfriend. And he wanted to be her
boyfriend so bad. The movie theater date where he
tried so hard. I was just like, come on.
I was like, look at him, look at him.
He's. So cute.
It's almost as if Elle is so focused on the world accepting
her that she couldn't think that to have a personal life.
And that is very true because and Elle, Elle also, and that
was another thing that was touched on.
And I was like, Oh my God, yes, Elle, although she loved her
friends, she loved them, loved them, loved them, she still felt
like she didn't fit fit in. Like, yeah, I, I love y'all.
And I'm only, it was like, I, I am only here because of y'all.
Like I'm, I'm, I'm here because because y'all are here, but I
don't feel like I belong here. I need to be some somewhere
where I feel like I belong and I don't feel that here and that
that hurt me. But but I understood and I was
very proud of her when she found her own space and she made the
choice. As much as I love you, I'm going
to put myself 1st. And if you are true truly my
friends, then you're going to support me and me going
somewhere else and being somewhere where I'm accepted for
who I am. That I was very proud of her
for, you know, finally taking that step because she was kind
of the like mother figure. Like she took care of everybody.
Like she like she, she was always check checking on
everybody. Like she was all like she was
the one that they went to when there was an issue.
And she was like, well, who do I go to?
Like, where do I go? Like I, I need some some like I
am everybody else's rock, but who is mine?
That's. That's a great point, yeah,
Because she does have these friends and she is surrounded by
people in the LGBTQ plus community, but there's no one.
Who? Identifies the same as her and
that her experience is extremely different from everybody else
actually. Well, she does have another
person to relate to now, but we'll we'll get into that in a
little bit. So she needed to find the place
where there were people who had this similar experiences as her.
And it was very great. Meet Felix and Naomi and meet
the whole school over there where she could be herself fully
and know that other people understood her right away.
Yes, but then there was a moment where it she was, she went to
the school and she was in her amazing bubble.
She and she's a very talented artist.
And there was there was this moment that almost that put
almost pulled her back in when she, I think her art was
recognized for some, I, I don't remember exactly what what it
was, but her art was recognized and they wanted to interview.
Her the radio show. That's exactly where I was going
to go next with the. Yes, and the main topic wasn't
even about her arts. No, it was gross.
And I was just like, and again, the parents, the parents, the
parents, because her father was like.
Get get my baby out of here. We're not doing this today.
It almost like I left the parents.
And Tal being there too and be like, what do we do?
Do we get her out of there? Like what he's like I, I need to
jump in. I don't know what I can do right
now. So what do I do?
But it's like, 'cause she but, but just imagine thinking that
you're going here to get recognized for some something
that she loves. Like she she is like I'm finally
getting recognition and all you can talk about is me being
trans. Also if he's a minor, so that
was also a ridiculous line of questioning for a minor.
It was definitely illegal what they did.
Yes, I looked up laws for that. Yeah, Caleb, what's?
Illegal. Yeah, there's this whole like
they could have gotten like their license taken away by not
communicating and protecting this minor because she's a
minor. No matter how well spoken she
is, she's a minor. Minors can do art.
Right. And it's like how it it, it was
almost. No, not not almost.
It was a How dare you? Yes, magic gross moment.
Yeah, it is like how? How How dare you like it would
like like you baited this girl in here knowing your line of
questioning which like made me think like so did you really not
even care about her talent like you just wanted her in because
of this? Basically.
Not treating her as a person. She's.
At. Treating her like an object,
which is actually great to put in the season where she is
dealing with this, the intimacy with Tao, because it again, like
that's she has to deal with the fact that other people just see
her as a topic and an object, whereas she is a person and she
does have to see herself and but she's always still fighting with
the world like I am a person. You have to see me for who I am.
So she's like, how can I have this person tell, see all of me?
When the world doesn't. Fighting so much and that's
exhausting. It has to be exhausting.
Obviously I don't know exactly what she's going through and so
I can't speak for that, but it has to be exhausting.
I have AI. When I started watching this, I
called one of my very good friends and I said, look, I need
you to watch this. Like when I really started
watching it, I called her and I was like, look, I know that you
don't like watching like trans things.
And it's not because she, she is a beautiful trans woman.
And because of everything of late, her emotions have been
going up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down that
she doesn't know what the, the, the future is going to hold for
her. And I, I was, I was like, look,
I need you to watch this. She called me crying.
She was like this, like this. I I told she she was like I am L
like I know exactly how she's feeling, and I was like, this is
what I wanted you to watch it like she she she also feels like
she'll never really fight like she feels like she's in a box.
Like even though she's very confident in who she is, she
feels like she's in a box. I can I could only date within
this box. I can't date outside the box
because they won't understand me.
That's why it was so important and out like I applaud who
whoever wrote this like you put a straight teenage boy that fell
in love with a beautiful trans girl.
I knew her throughout her whole journey too.
Yeah, the whole time. Yes, from from start to finish.
From start to Like he knew L before L Like he he knew her and
loved her anyway. And it was just so beautiful.
Yeah, it I can't get over their storyline.
And I like the part part you brought up about like Elle kind
of being this person who was super confident and knew who she
was at least on a personal level very early on in the show.
And a lot of the other characters are like, who am I?
So like if you compare her to like Nick, who's like a main
character, a lot of Nick's arc is like, seriously, who I
because like he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm the rugby guy.
And then he meets Charlie. He's like, oh God, gay thoughts.
What is happening? But but he got this journey on
every season to be like, OK, but like, who am I as Nick?
And even in the third season, he's like, what do I do with
school? Like, who am I?
And so Elle is the one who's really like, OK, Nick, for
fuck's sake, like you. You.
First, like, look what I did. And like, I like that she's the
tough love person sometimes who's like, it's OK to put you
first. And because like for somebody
like Nick who's such a people pleaser and like I'm millennial
guilty of that, we need an L to be like, it's OK to think about
you. It doesn't mean you love your
boyfriend any less, Nick. And like that I feel like people
need to hear it too, because sometimes in media there's this
romantization of like sacrifice for your partner, like to
children, they're all my Christmas.
Like, no, like you need to figure out who you are, Nick,
because if you can do that, your relationship will be healthier.
So like with L and Tao, like season 3 really shows us that
because season 2 is like, I think I'm going to go away.
And when she does and like they're, they work it out and
they're better for it, you know? And that was I'm.
Like so good. At the.
End with Chao being like, oh, I can look for like I got to start
getting a job so I can say love to go visit you when you go to.
France, yeah. He's like, yeah, let's do it
like we're doing it. Do you low key because I thought
that as the like seasons progressed and that I'm and and
and I'm literally just thinking that like as you some something
else that that they don't talk about.
It seemed like making Charlie's relationship began to to get
toxic because they were so Co dependent.
They were very Co dependent. On one another that it started
to get low key toxic like Nick, it consumed.
So I was so happy when his like I, I think took him on vacation
and he couldn't even enjoy it. And she she was like, she had to
come tell him, listen, Charlie's going to be OK.
Like you can't like you're here having fun like you're on
vacation like Charlie's. I know you love Charlie, but
focus on you right now. But Charlie was also very cold.
Like he was latchy. Like I need Nick at all times.
And it's like, no, like you have to learn how to do things for
you yourself. And I was happy when they said
that you need to go to therapy, which which he fought tooth and
nail. And it was like, go because you,
because Nick cannot be your superhero.
Yeah, he. He, he can't, he can't 'cause
he, he has his own teenage life. And so now he's trying to also
help you with your life and that's not healthy.
It was it. Definitely went back and forth
between them because in like the beginning, Charlie was like,
like Charlie always had this underlying mental health thing
going on whether he'd recognize it or not because he had the
PTSD basically from the Ben assault stuff that happened and
bullying. So like, he had that going on
and was dealing with that by himself.
So without therapy and without really help.
And then Nick comes along and Nick's like having an identity
crisis. And Charlie's like, OK, well, I
have to help you through this. So like, a lot of the beginning
is like Charlie latching on to help Nick.
And then like when Charlie's mental health spirals and gets
really, really bad, then Nick steps in and he's like, OK, now
I have to help you through this and sacrifice myself.
And what I like about this story is that it goes to show that
like, yes, the person having the mental health crisis, that takes
a lot out of them. And we definitely see that with
Charlie. But the piece that I love
perhaps more is that it shows like the toll it takes on the
partner that's supporting them because like, poor Nick has to
sacrifice basically everything to.
Help. Charlie and when he's trying to
decide to go to college, he's like, well, I think part of why
he's like, I need to stay is like, he's like, if I leave,
Charlie might spiral, then it's my fault.
And then we're back at the vacation scenario where he's
like, I can't live my life because I'm worried about you
and I'm not with you. And so it it.
Yeah. And, and it's just, it gets very
complex, like in that whole dynamic.
And it's like they have to break out of their codependency and
figure out how to be individuals, which is very much
a like, teenager becoming an adult storyline.
But this one's more. It's very realistic the way it
it goes down because it's like teenagers can have complex lives
too. You.
Know and have navigating teenager lives are very complex,
but people figuring out where you belong.
But with Nick, we see from the very beginning that he makes
something his whole life. So like in the beginning, it's
just rugby and that world and it could yeah, it could be because
we are mostly in Charlie's head. We don't really know what's
going on in Nick's world. But then you get to season 2
where it's just you really see it revolve around Charlie.
And then in season 3 it's like, OK, well, now Charlie is gone
for these couple, but who am I? Like he doesn't know who he is
as a person, nor does Charlie because he's just been fighting
these the things brain, which I totally understand.
Like it's exhausting. Again, it's it's not fair to
Nick, but he's not seeing that because Nick is always just
there. He's just he's the puppy.
He's like, all right, how can I help?
So Charlie doesn't know how to rely on anyone else.
Even when he has, someone like Tori is right there.
Always. Oh my God.
Yes, and he is not even seeing that.
And poor Tori. Oh, we have so much.
Conversation. Oh, listen, when when it was
just like, like she, she was the one that was kind of like not
seen, not. Yeah, in the shadows.
Ever. Recognized.
But I'm always it's like, hello, look at me like I am, I am, I am
here and nobody sees me. It's like why, why?
Why do you why do you not like do do do you not know that I
have been here? Ride, ride or die since day one
and it's like I'm not getting any type of recognition, which I
didn't like that. Yeah, I agree because Charlie
loses himself in the Nick dynamic and then Tori's like,
I've literally known you my whole life and been like you
said, the right, your right or die your whole life.
And then he like ignores her or like, yes, abandons her at some
point. And like I understand he's going
through mental health stuff and he's like, Nick is my dopamine
right now. I need to get out of here.
But like then you abandoned Tori to like toxic Christmas and it's
like, what about her mental health?
What about what she needs take? Tori and Oliver with you because
Oliver is just. You have to take him with you.
Yeah, he's cute, but we see explicitly seen in this season.
But if you go back from the very beginning, she is always there
with that lemonade. And like that was her checking
on him, making sure that she knows what's going on with him.
Like she she pinpointed that something wasn't right from the
beginning. Yes.
And he, he didn't want to hear it.
No, nobody wanted to hear it. And she, she knew she, she was
like y'all like something, something is going on.
Like y'all can't something is going on.
No, nobody listened. To her.
No, nobody listened. It's like I'm trying to help
y'all see that he need like I'm not just doing this for
attention. Like I look, look, look at him
look, but people only wanted to see the the trolley that that
they wanted. Yeah.
That's the way I play. They they didn't want to see who
he really was. They just wanted to see the
Charlie that they expected him to to be or the Charlie that he
wanted everybody to see. Yeah, that too.
He did a lot of hiding of his problem and that's.
A very common thing in life, like for sure, everything's
fine. And which in turn makes it so
the people are like, oh, I can't show this because people like
again, people say, Hey, how are you doing?
You're not supposed to actually answer it.
You're supposed to be like, no, where are you?
Fine, great, but but like inside was like.
It's like, Oh yeah, I just had a bag attack at the car.
I thought, yeah, great, it's great.
It's like you're talking to that but.
It was very funny to to me when Tori found her person.
Michael. And, and they felt some type of
way because now she was like, well, I'm going to have to worry
about you. Are you, are you?
Because now I can focus on me and my relationship.
And they were like, oh, well, well, yeah.
Let let let her have her moment. Let her have, let her finally
have some somebody that sees her.
Yes. And loves.
Her of Tori's moment. Alicia, I don't know if you've
read the books at all, but have you ever read solitaire?
No. You have to go do that as soon
as you can because that is Tori's story.
That's Tori's story, Heart Stopper started.
Really. Yeah.
It's part of a Tori, actually. And Nick and Charlie were like
background characters. And then Alice was like, let's
explore these gays. And then the then the
Heartstopper comics came after. But yeah, Tori does have her own
book. Well, what that.
And that's so odd because with Heart Stopper, she's in the
back. Yeah.
And then in the forefront. And you get to know what's going
on with her and and Mike. You'll know it.
It overlaps with the show too. Season 3 it overlaps.
With Season 3, so season 3, you know what's going on to her head
throughout the season. It makes the season even more
complex. Yes it does, so go watch.
It I have to go and read the the book because what?
And if you do the audiobook, the audiobooks read by the actor
that plays Tori in the series, which is fun too.
So you get to hear Jenny's voice and it just sounds like Tori is
reading to you, which is lovely. And what, what what is the other
friend, The one who I can't think of his name but he
discovers later on the I am ace. I am ace sexual, another thing
that has never been touched on TV.
He, he's like, I was like. I love the way that all went
down with Isaac. So Isaac, for context, is not in
the comic books. There's a different friend that
he's like kind of based off of and the author Alice is asexual.
So she like wrote this character and like gave us this
representation. So it's so authentic because it
comes from somebody who lived in this experience.
And just I love the way his like, epiphany moment when he
they're in the art, I forget what it is, but like the art
gallery or whatever. And like he comes up to this
displaying. He's like with like the hearts
and they're upside down and the Valentine's cards or whatever.
And he's like, I don't know why, but this is speaking to me.
And then like the the artist comes up to him and they're he's
talking about it. And he's like putting words to
the way Isaac feels and he's like asexual.
Oh, my God. Like the way it just goes like,
Oh my God. Yeah.
It's like thank you for putting this in my feelings into words
like that is so powerful. Because like at at at first you
almost thought that he was a hater.
Like like yeah, like because because like how was like he is
getting on my nerves because just just just just just because
you don't have no but like leave them.
It was like he could not understand like why why why
y'all always just touching and and in love Like that's so gross
that that wasn't him. Like he he doesn't feel like and
he always felt like he was the 3rd wheel.
Because he was, he was that poor kid.
Like, especially when you don't have that experience, you don't
understand what your friends are talking about.
He can't be in most of their conversations because that's all
they're talking about, all they're talking about.
And then they don't even realize that Isaac has to read a book
because they're not including him in that.
Like there's no other way for him to be included because he
has nothing to add to it. Because he.
Can't I think it was Ellen's towel They were watching a movie
and it was supposed to they were all supposed to be watching a
movie and Ellen towel does this like start laughing and like
making and he's he's just like, you know what, y'all can have
it. I'm and and they're like, what,
what, what, what do we do with like?
Like really, really that. I mean, that was rude.
Yes, it was like because he he was he was almost like he was
thinking, OK, we're, we're all friends and just because y'all
are together doesn't mean that we can't be friends.
Like we, we, we, we all started out as friends.
So let's keep this friend thing going.
Like, why do we have to? Like the fear of like when
you're in a friend group and two of the friends start dating,
you're like, OK, well, now I'm just going to be cast aside.
I don't have these friends anymore.
And I do love that Heart Stopper didn't just let the friendship
fizzle out because, again, a lot of times that's probably what
happens. They do talk through it and
they're like, OK, well, you need to realize that there are other
people around and it's you could be trying to have a summer of
romance, but you cannot just cast aside all your other
friends to try and be the perfect boyfriend, Tal.
Yeah, yeah. And I really like because I'm,
I'm, I'm going back, back and forth in, in my head thinking of
things as far as Nick and Charlie went.
I love when like Nick loved Charlie so much that he, he
wanted to like save him so badly.
Like even after he was having therapy or whatever and he would
try to like kind of make, make him eat like here, eat, like
here, eat. And like Charlie was like, just
stop, just just stop it. Nick was it, it was like you can
feel him like thinking, I don't I don't want you to die, so I
need you to do it. It was it.
It was so yes, like you can feel that he was like, could you just
eat this, please? Just like when, because I, I
think that they went to the to the park or they went somewhere
and like everybody else was like eating and Nick and Nick, Nick
was like, hey, why don't you eat this?
So why, why why don't you? And he and he had had a whole
meltdown and was like, no, I'm not not eating.
Just leave me alone. And Nick was and here comes Al
here here comes L like just just let let let him be, you know,
like always the mom, always the mom.
Speaking of the mom, though, you know who else is the mom of the
friend group? Tara, that's a guy.
Beloved. Oh my God.
Yeah. Tara Tara's the mom that, like,
brings the snacks, has the schedule, like gets the kids out
of the house on time. She's that mom.
Like organ is organized to the tea mom.
No, forgot about. Yes, I.
Love her so much Oh my gosh she goes through it too.
Speaking of identity crisis with her too, she has like is
especially in season 3, she has the more subtle identity crisis
that a lot of people. I, I, I felt her plot like at
least as a millennial with like the perfectionism stuff.
Then where she's like, I don't know who I am if I'm not chasing
perfection and as she's chasing perfection because that's what
people expect of her. She's like, do I even want this?
Do I want Oxford? Do I want head person at school?
Like do I even want all these things?
But like, I've been pushed out of love by my mom, my teachers,
this and that. And I love that she goes through
that. And then with Darcy, like their
relationship has always been super solid.
Like a Darcy goes through identity exploration through
like gender expression and things like that.
But the way those two constantly find ways to support each other
while being individuals, like they have one of the healthiest
relationships on the show, I would say they're not
codependent. Like they end up in the
situation where like Darcy does rely on Tara because like mom
kicks them out And so which is terrible.
But like, so Tara's like I have to because like we're a minor
and so like I have to help you in this code seemingly
codependent way. But like, I love that Tara also
like Elle was like, listen, Darcy, I need my own space.
Like, like she's not afraid to have these conversations where
where Tara does put herself 1st And Darcy respects Tara, even
though Darcy's crushed by this conversation because Darcy's
like, this is my dream scenario. I was like getting married and
shit. But like, it's like, I
understand. I respect you.
I love you. Yes, let's, let's.
Like she she was because Darcy was like, really on some like
lesbian U-Haul type. Shit, yeah, like U-Haul.
Girl it. Was like I need my own.
Life and and she and you you could kind of like see it
happening because because that first time child was like, yeah,
OK, we're going to move in like, yeah, cool, cool, cool.
And it was the like like honeymoon stage.
But then it was like, this is too much time to gather.
Like I can't even focus. Yeah, why why are you always
here? Like I need my own space.
Like I love you. I love you.
I want to be with you. But you got to get out my face.
Also, you're messy as fuck and I'm not and.
Like, Oh my gosh, yeah, a lot. For like a kid to deal with too.
And you're like, this is my room and you're making it a mess.
Like love you, but you need to get out because like that.
I'm sure that was driving Tara crazy from her like.
She was raised differently. Correct.
She was, she was raised totally different and Darcy was more
free and it's like. It's just more neglected and I
was like, let me get out of this house.
Yeah. And we see a similar journey to
Nick in this season with Tara because it's the same thing.
Oh, I need to be there for everybody else, my partner, and
not worry about myself. Meanwhile, Darcy's not seeing
what's going on with Tara either.
And there's so much happening to the point where Charlie is the
one who has to step in and help Tara through a panic attack even
though he is super drunk apparently.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I I I do remember that and and I was like
Oh my God, like she is like this is really affecting her and Co
dependent relationships do that. When I first got with my wife I
remember like I I hadn't fully healed yet and I saw how very
strong she was and how she had it all put 2 together.
So when I started dating her, like I almost had the
expectation that I wanted her to help heal me.
And I put that on her and I because I didn't love myself.
I wanted her to love me enough for me and her.
And that was a heavy load for her to carry.
Like, I don't know how we lasted this, this this long, but but at
first that was a heavy load. And whenever we were watching
it, she was like, they like, you were Charlie for like a hot
minute. And I was like, yeah, I, I,
yeah, yeah. Because everyone in my wife
went. I had to be right there.
Like it's like I could not, like you could not go anywhere
without me because I felt like if if I wasn't with you, my life
would fall apart. Yeah.
And Nick kind of already had his life planned out like his, his
life was like when, when when we met Nick, Nick's life was like
this, this, this, this, this. And it almost looked like
Charlie just came in and just. Blew it up, yeah.
So it's like, what? What?
What do you do? But you want to root for them.
But then it's like, damn, Nick, like you, you, you had a whole
life plan. So now what?
Yeah, And it's interesting for Nick because, yeah, it's kind of
like he gets blindsided by Charlie a little bit.
But when you, when we get more into Nick's point of view, Nick
admits he's like, once I met Charlie and started hanging out
with Charlie more, he's like, was I even happy with what my
life was before? He's like, it was one of those
relationships where he's like, I had superficial relationships
with my like, rugby friends where we talked about rugby and
like video games, but nothing else.
So we did. They weren't real friendships
the way like Charlie Tao and Isaac talk about literally every
everything and have like such a solid friendship.
And Nick's like, wow, I was actually missing this thing.
I didn't know I was missing. And so when he starts
integrating with that friend group and becoming real good
friends with Tara, I love their friendship, especially because
it starts out with like, you're a boy, I'm a girl, let's date.
And then they're like, wait a minute.
And so I love that they become like friends.
Oh my God, Nick's like, yes, this is what I was missing.
So like, he discovers these things because of Charlie.
But then it turns into like in season 3, Nick's like, who am I
without Charlie? Because like, now I know I know
more about me, but if he's gone, will I not?
Like, So then it becomes he kind of spirals into the codependency
because he's like, who am I without Charlie?
Because Charlie changed my life. But, you know, so it's a
Lapernick. Yeah, It is it like, and I
helped Nick discover who he really was.
Yes. Outside of everything like this,
this is this is really me. And that's OK.
Yes. That is OK.
It's OK to discover things about yourself.
I want to go back really quickly to the codependent relationship
and something you said Alethea with.
They want their the person to love them enough for the both of
them. And I think that's something
that was going on with Darcy and Tara too, because Darcy was
growing up with parents who did not accept them at all and did
not feel that love. So with Tara kicking them, not
kicking them out, but asking, asking for his face and Darcy
going to live with Grant, I think that was the best thing
that could have happened for them because now they were
finally supported by like one of the best grandmothers ever, the
best grandmother ever. And I love Grand.
Love. Grand, I was like, why can't
more people just be like this and like, you know, come on,
like grand, I love you and it's the respects.
Yes. That she had for Darcy and a lot
of people, even though they say that they love you, they don't
respect who you are. And it was the level of respect
like I am not going to address you in any other way than how
you want to be addressed. Like I, I love the, the, the
level of respect and the level of understanding that Grant had
when it came to Darcy because especially at that age, because
we all know that people of a certain age that, that they're
like what? Right.
We don't it's either boy, girl, like, what do we do?
Like we can't. Yeah.
So just just showing someone of that age having that that that
type of love and like understanding was really a good
thing to to show. It was so many good things to
show on. TV, yes.
Finally. Agreed.
You know, finally.
Really quick Imogen storyline as well.
We get to see a lot more of Imogen's arc this season.
The. Comp head storyline Another
storyline that's not talked about enough, Yes.
So relevant, yes. It's so many characters is.
I know, right? It's so many.
It's like you, you forget, like, oh, well, there's, there's this
one too. I totally forgot about her.
Oh, Imogen. And then again, I'm Imogen and
Sahar. They're always in my mind, OK?
Because first of all, Sahar is just, I want that confidence.
I want that security in yourself.
Like love them. But Imogen and her monologue?
With. At that the hotel and just being
like, I don't think I actually ever was into you or any other
guys I dated. Like I like, yeah, I might have
been seen as a whore, but that's not really who I am.
Well, she's like basically her whole thing was like, I was, I
was there for the male attention because that's what I thought I
was supposed to do as a girl, but she's like, I actually.
Raise his hand. Right.
Raise his hand. Like, I love my kids.
I love them. But the sole reason that I
started dating men was because I was told that I was supposed to.
Like, that's what I was supposed to do.
And when I when they basically told me that me being gay was a
mental issue. Yeah, wow, I'm sorry.
Yeah. And made me feel as such.
Yeah. I was like, Oh well, you want me
to be straight? Well, now I'm just going to be
with every guy because. So I because I didn't know what
else to do and I felt like I needed to prove a point, but I
hated myself even more because I didn't want to do this.
I mean, I, I, I had beautiful children.
They came out of it and I do not regret it at all.
But I just wish that it would have been on my terms and not
because it was an expectation. And I feel like for her it was.
I was expected to be this way. I was expected to be with guys.
I was expected to be with the jock.
Yeah. Because that's that is the
expectation. But really, I don't.
I don't even like Dick like that.
Yeah, basically that's that conversation.
And it's just, I feel like that that is a lot of people's
stories, especially when you grow up in like patriarchy type
societies like the one in America that we're subjected to.
So it's like. Christian.
Christian values, yeah, all that kind of stuff.
It's like, I feel like it's so many people, so many woman's
journeys or even men, too, who are like, forced to be into
compact situations that don't want it either.
Yeah, like Nick. Exactly.
Or like if Isaac lived in a really strict household, that
could also be his story very easily.
Was like, I don't want anybody and I'm being forced into this.
So like to have that on screen, I think is really important,
especially teenagers who are figuring out who am I to come to
that realization and be like, wow, my whole life's been a lie.
Who am I? Like, I think that's that's
important because like, it's OK. And then the silver lining of
that was that Nick was there and he's like, you're my friend.
I'm here to support you. Like you're not alone while
you're figuring out who you are. I think that is a really good
message. Period.
Yeah. I think this this like whole
show sums up it's OK to be who you are.
Yes. That that's that yeah, that is
the whole premise of the it's OK it is it is it is OK for you to
reinvent yourself if need be. It's it's it's OK to not be in
the box. It's OK to want this, but then
like, no, maybe I want that. It's, it's OK.
We, we, we are different versions of ourselves every
single day, and that's OK. Just because you haven't figured
out one day doesn't mean it's won't change, and that's OK.
Like stories, stories change, and that's OK, OK.
That's a really good message and I would like to use this to
transition to our listener comments.
Yes. Before we get into that real
quick, we're going to interrupt this video to bring you a few
brief shout outs from our lovely chaos crew over on Patreon.
Now, as always, we really appreciate and just can't
believe all the support we get through Patreon, but also
through YouTube and all other platforms on social media.
We love hearing from you and just seeing what you love about
the media we talk about and fangirl because like, well, fan
human, we shout all the time with people over on our discord
too. So make sure you come join our
discord and all of that. So our chaos crew members on the
big gay ride or die tier and above are Dana W, Kate V, Angela
Amix, Amix Newmanzone, under score multi.
I believe it's supposed to be Natalia, Danny, whatever.
Natalia, Danny, Cassie, M, Jill L, Regina V and Monet F.
And our big our our featured big gay supporter members for this
episode are Nikki Meredith and M Willis. 24.
Thank you so much all of you for supporting us.
We appreciate each and everyone of you and thanks for getting it
up all over the place. All right, so we'll get started
with our listener comments from Blue Sky.
So just in advance, thank you to everybody that participated.
We did put polls out there to ask what you loved about Heart
Stopper. We got some really, really good
responses that we're going to share and kind of talk about.
So we'll start first with our responses from Blue Sky.
So we got one from Spencer. Thank you, Spencer, who's been
engaging with us. It's been lovely.
So Spencer says about why they love Heart Stopper.
It's a lovely story with plenty of cute moments and the amount
of representation is really cool.
Heart Stopper has become my favorite show of all time.
Watching it provided me with lots of personal affirmation as
well as enlightenment on topics I'm less educated on.
Fingers crossed for Season 4. Yes.
Yes to all of that. Yeah, they really queer it up
all over the place in that show. Yeah.
And I mean, I think that touches really nicely on what we keep
saying, where it's like, these are storylines I've never seen
in media before, I've never seen done properly or correctly.
And so enlightenment on topics I'm less educated on.
Boom. I think that's a an amazing
reason about why people should watch Heart Stop or just that on
its own. Finally, yes.
Definitely OK over on over on TikTok our first comment is from
JD 108 and they said it showed the happy ending my younger self
deserved but never could see as a possibility due to all the
negative portrayal of queer people at the time.
Yeah, nobody dies on this show because they're queer.
Yes. I laugh because trauma not.
Because trauma just. Because like, yeah, like, that
was what I grew up with. And like what is not subliminal
messaging to queer? People like you, you too can
have your happy ending. You too cannot get killed by
stray bullets. But it's like it's, it's OK
again, Alethia, what you're saying it's OK to be yourself
that it's. Not going to.
Be this always negative. You can find happiness, you just
have to find your people and that's what they did.
Especially Angel, she found her tribe.
You have to find your tribe and know that that it's OK to have
more than one tribe. Because Elle, Elle had her
friends, but then she had her people like, these are my
people. So yeah, that that was cool.
Yeah, I, I like what you just said there.
And I will add the scene I think that encapsulates that really
nicely is when Elle, Tara, Imogen and Nick are on the
journey to check out all the colleges and they're in the car
and they just came from Kent. And everybody's like Nah.
And Elle's reason for Nah is basically like Elle's like, I
need to be with queer people. I need to go somewhere to be
with my people. Like she explicitly says that
and. It's like my and it's like they
were like, well, we're gay. Yeah, but, but, but you're not
like me. You're not like me.
All right, you're not artistic. Yeah.
You don't have the same hobbies as me outside of like, we've
known each other because of location and etcetera.
But like, yeah. So OK.
Next one from TikTok is Corey Phoenix.
This is kind of a similar sentiment, but still worth
reading. So Corey says about why they
love Heart Stopper. It healed parts of childhood
where I could have experienced joy, but due to circumstances of
society at the time, it was never possible.
It gives me hope for future generations that they can
experience. Yes.
Also yes. I always say my myself needed
the show, you know? But I also love Corey that
you're talking about hope for future generations because we
should be hoping that the generations after us get it to
easier. They shouldn't have to fight as
hard as the people who have already fought those fights.
There's there's, there's a reason that people fought these
battles so that we wouldn't have to.
So there's no reason that we should have to re fight
constantly, constantly constantly when these battles
were already won for us to have the rights that we now have.
Like people have already fought so that me and my wife can
legally be married. I like people already fought so
that the last name on my Social Security card and my license
matches my wife's. Like I don't want to have to go
backwards. And if we keep fighting the same
fight, we're not going to get anywhere.
So why do we want to keep fighting?
We why do we want people later to fight the same thing and make
less progress again? That is what we're seeing happen
right now. Unfortunately.
I will say there's there's a moment in the show that does
encapsulate what Corey is saying really, really nicely.
So and it goes through Charlie. So if we remember at the very
beginning of the show, Charlie gets bullied.
When he came out, he got super bullied.
Then he got in that like toxic relationship with Ben where he
was basically assaulted and psychologically bullied again.
And then when we jump to season 3, I think the hope for future
generation part is when the teachers come up to Charlie and
they're like, Hey, can you be head student?
And when he fills out the application, one of his big
motivations, Charlie is to stop bullying.
So like that's that's hope for future generation, right?
There's Charlie who went through the struggle of being bullied
because he was queer and he's like, well, if I can get in a
position of power, I'm going to change it so nobody else who
comes after me gets bullied. So there's your hope for the
future generation right there with Charlie, who we seen like a
short time. Period.
I also totally. See it through the you said.
What about can we have more teachers like this?
That's that. Yeah, that.
Oh my God created a safe space. Thank you.
He he specifically created a safe space for Charlie.
And I love the the scene where because Charlie eats lunch in
there and I love the scene where Nick said, I'm going to go meet
you where you are, like I'm going to go in your space.
And Charlie allows him into his safe space where they have
lunch. I'm just like, we need more
teachers like this man. We need more teachers.
That's. A good point.
Just to create that safe space. But I I just want to touch on
the generation thing real quick, because we do see that with
Youssef for Mr. Frank. Thank you.
I was like, why am I blanking the last time?
I always only called him by his last name because I tried to say
his first name. So Mr. Farooq, you see that
powerful scene of when he was a little boy sitting in the same
chair as Charlie, and you see how it has?
It's still not great for him, but it's gotten better because
Farook wasn't even able to be himself until this show.
We see it happen. As an adult.
And but Charlie is able to still be himself at high school.
So we are seeing the progress. It's not perfect, but it's
there. And the, the power that you see,
like Farook being like, oh, this, this was me.
And this, yeah, what I wish I could have.
And is this. Yeah, yeah.
It, it, it, it really is to. It's like you.
You're living my dream. And.
And yes, yeah. He's.
Happy for Charlie too. Not.
It was almost like a thank you, like thank you for like show
showing me what, Yeah, what this looks like.
It was like thank you. It happened so so I just love
that. That's why he knew that Charlie,
he had boys. Yeah.
To make it even better. I was just like, it's so it's so
many great moments that like we can literally talk, talk about
this for because it's so many great moments.
Like it's, I would dare to say that it was a lot of made for TV
moments and we need to have more of those of these made for TV
moments because a lot of teenagers should even adults
deal with this. But it's never talked about.
It's when it's when people talk about gay, it's more sexualized.
And yes, and it yes, it's not what this show does.
It's not finding out who I am going going through different
things, navigating through life to understand who I am.
It's more than just sexuality. It's more than just that.
So I hope that more shows take note and see like it's more than
just sexuality or like the the denying that I'm gay be being on
the DL. It's so much more than that.
It's it's mental too, very mental. 100 million percent,
yes, absolutely. All right, so our last comment
from fans are OK. Oh my gosh, that whole line was
terrible. So our last comment from TikTok
is from Nina and they said it made me realize friends are
supposed to care about you and be.
There for you. And it changed my life because I
now no longer accept less than that.
And yes, yes, growing up, you have superficial friendships.
You don't know what they're supposed to be.
And again, immediately, especially American, you're
seeing backstabbing, superficial them, acts like adults.
Theora's biggest pet peeve? It's like friendship.
Friendship looks like this. Like even, yeah, even with and.
The level. Of communication be between
these friends even even when I'm mad at you, I'm going to
communicate. I'm not going to going to act
like a toddler. I'm going to communicate why I
am upset with you. And we are going to, we are
going to sit at this table and we going to work this shit out
because you, because at the end of the day, you are my friend
and I don't want to lose you. Yes.
With the exception of the Isaac and Tao at the zoo, I believe it
was yes. And who gets him to stop being
children? Al who's like Tao, Sir?
I thought that that that was awesome, that she was like, let
let me go talk to to my, my, my, my man and and not tell him what
he wants to hear, but tell him what he needs.
Yeah, to hear like you were wrong.
Like yes. And she executed it really well,
too. She was like, yes, you're being
immature. Right.
And it's like, regardless of what role you have in my life, I
am not going to sugarcoat shit like I am going to tell you that
you were wrong. She does tough love a lot and
she does it really well and not in like a mean, condescending
way. It's very much in A use for this
right now way. Like I'm telling you this
because I love you and to add to like the friendship, what Nina
said. I I agree with that whole
statement. I think that's so important
because again, this show also shows you like, it's OK to like
and encourage to tell your friends you love them and mean
it because they have, they have a lot of scenes where Charlie's
just tells his Isaac. Yes.
As a friend and like that's, oh, that's so good.
That's important. So I love that.
There's so much to talk about with Heart Stopper.
It just, it's hard to stop gushing about it.
Yeah. And this happened because they
just, they pack it in and just naturally too.
It's not even forced. Nothing is forced in.
I really hope that they have a another season because I need to
see how like I need to see see how Ellen's towels relationship
play plays out with like moving forward.
Like I need to to see how these relationships like I need to see
how Gran and Darcy are do it like is, is she better like?
Buddy cop movie. I need to know what's going on
has has Charlie like is he in a better head space?
What college did Nick go to? Is is he doing well?
Are they even still to gather? And if they are, how are they
navigating through be independent without each other?
I need answers we. Hear.
Answers. We need answers.
So Netflix. And don't cancel it like you do
every other good show. OK, at the very least, at least
we've made it to Season 3, which is progress in itself
unfortunately. But yes, I'm a little scared
right now but. I need more.
Yes, we we all need more, but at least we still do have the
graphic novels. There will be one more and then
hopefully Alice. Maybe keep?
Writing. Yeah, just keep writing.
Just keep writing. We.
Love you. OK.
So yeah, hopefully there is a season 4 and we can have you
back and talk about that because I don't know, I feel like we'd
still have you backed up the. Hard stuff.
And there's still so much more. So much.
But usually I give a secret word at the end of these episodes to
if people are still watching and listening and they can comment
or leave a review with that word.
But this episode, I'm actually going to ask you a question and
I just want to know what made you feel seen in Heart Stopper?
Let's start a discussion around that because there's always that
maybe something small that other people would be like, oh, that's
it's just there, but it makes someone else be like, I see
myself. So let's talk about that.
Let's talk about leave. Us a comment I want to know
that's a really. I would love, I would love to
see and hear all of those comments because I know that
there will be a lot of them. What, what, what, what was your
moment that just made you feel like Yep, Yep.
Oh, that. That's a good question.
Oh, right. A good place to ethnic Taylor.
I love it. All right, so that was why we
love Heart Stopper. Thank you, Alethea.
We appreciate hearing all of your thoughts about Heart
Stopper. This has been really, really
fun. And to everybody home again,
thank you to those who participated in the episode.
We hope you appreciated your shout out.
We loved your comments, whatever, whatever.
Since sort of the future for Heart Stopper, we'll be back to
talk about Volume 6 and hopefully season 4 in many ways
because we just love this show so much.
But until we are going to sign off for now.
So until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus.
And get it up all over the place.
Bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. Thank you for listening.
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