Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Theora.
And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, Chris. What's on the big age under
today, Theora? Well, today we're bobbing our
heads for some reason, and we're continuing our LGBTQ ship
discussion. Whoa, cuz there's so many
fabulous ships we could possibly talk about in one episode.
I don't know why we thought we could.
Yeah, that was really ambitious because the our outline kept
getting longer and I'm like, how long is this gonna be?
It's like, have you met us? Well, have you met our fans?
They submitted more than we had. So, good Lord.
And thank you for that. We're excited to talk about all
these wonderful ships. So shall we get started?
Caitlin Yeah, let's do it. Woohoo.
I should not be going off as much of A tangent in this
episode. Stop.
Let us see. I don't know, Caitlin.
Maybe I'll rival you. Let's see.
So last episode we talked about. You know what is shipping and
mostly focused on? Happy ships.
So if you want your happy feels, go back to that episode.
There will be happy feels in this episode, but first we have
to get past the sadness. The sadness is the form of
Titanic ships, and I like to call these kinds of ships
Titanic, not just because they sink to the bottom of the ocean.
For whatever reason, but because the Titanic itself is this big
epic beacon. It was the Ship of Dreams, and
we finally had this unsinkable, beautiful ship, the ship we've
all been waiting for. And it fucking sinks to the
bottom of the ocean. So, like, to me, that's what a
Titanic ship is. It's not just a unhappy ending,
it's an epic ship that just did not make it to their
destination. So this is the Titanic ship
section and. We're going to start this with
the most Titanic ship of all times, Phil and Eve from Killing
Eve. So this is we're just starting
with the actual Titanic because of a horrific person.
She she shall not be named. I don't want to bring the season
4 short runner into this because this podcast will never end.
So let's just talk about Phil and Eve.
So to me, this is the ultimate ship, because first of all.
This show is starting up, but came from a book series in which
these two had a happy ending. But the show runners of the show
were like, let's not do that because they're queer stuff like
that. But to me, they have all the
elements I want in to for an epic ship.
Because you have Jody Comer playing Villanelle and this was
like really her breakout role. She, as Caitlin pointed out, has
two movies coming out right now. She's won several awards.
She's a phenomenal actor, and it's truly showcased in this
show where she's playing the assassin Villanelle, who's an
agent of chaos. Not M15, M, I5 and they're both
such. And then you have Eve Palashtri,
the government really desk worker in M I5 is where she
starts, played by the supremely talented Sandra.
Oh, so you have not. Phenomenal actors, their
chemistry so insane that you can still feel it when they're when
they are not even in scenes together.
Like it's so crazy palpable, their chemistry that it's just
you're drawn into just whatever is going on with them because
for a while you don't really understand what's going on with
them. So Eve in the show gets promoted
into MI6, which is more like government intelligence kind of
work, and she gets like recruited on the DL.
To go after this assassin because for some reason she has
figured out that there's this female assassin in the world
that's doing all these covert missions.
And Eve off the bat is very infatuated with the talent that
this particular person has because she's fascinated with
darkness and death and all of that kind of stuff.
And like the master, the mastery of this particular person that's
committing the murders. And she's like, I think it's a
woman and she's totally right. And so they end up going through
this cat and mouse ordeal. So it's.
Enemies straight up, enemies, the lover situation that's
happening, that's subversive and so well done.
And every acting scene they have together is just you stop
breathing because it's just so like, captivating and beautiful.
The writing is spectacular. All the supporting actors, shout
out to Fiona Shaw. Everything about this show, like
made it so wonderful. But the thing that's so epic
about them is that the they are the plot of the show.
Like the whole point of the show is their relationship with each
other. Like that is the whole point of
the show. Like there's other stuff going
on, but like they are the they are the plot which to me.
Is is unique when it comes to ships because usually ships are
like a side effect of the show, a side effect of the plot.
They were the plot, like they were the plot of the show.
And so everything's centered around their relationship.
And of course, in true Safic fashion, they don't get to be
happy with each other until the very last episode.
And then homophobia happens at the very, very end.
So like. For me, the Ship of Dreams is
season one, Season 2, Phoebe Waller Bridge and Emerald
Finnell's version of villain Eve.
It gets weird after that, and I won't rant, but they had
everything they had. It was enemies to lovers,
otherworldly chemistry between the two actors.
The actors were actors who have a deep understanding of their
character, what they're trying to achieve.
And just it really, it was this good exploration of like the
darkness of humanity and the fact that these two, that's what
they saw on each other, that's what their their inner selves or
what they were both attracted to.
And so, like, they kind of completed each other in a way by
like enhancing their, like, inner identities.
And that was what was so beautiful about them.
So it wasn't really about the sexual attraction.
It wasn't about, like the classic things you think of when
you think of like. What a romance is built on.
They were liberating each other in in in their identity aspects
and they're giving their you know, Eve gives villain all the
sense of what autonomy is and like you know pushes her to kind
of get it and things like that. And so it's a very push and pull
type of relationship and you just see in the end how well the
two of them work together and it's just this fun like
bantering with each other and just.
This level of trust, that shouldn't be there, but it is,
and it's unexplainable and there's like a mystery element
to them because you never fully know what's going on in any any,
any point in time because they're both unreliable
narrators. And so mentally it's stimulating
because of who the characters are, how it's written, how it's
acted. And it's just they are the best
in it. Unfortunately got in the wrong
showrunner's hands and ended in, you know, sinking fashion in a
barrier gays trope. When it didn't have to because
the source material has them. A happy ship at the end, so it's
fucked up. It literally ended in a sinking
fashion. Literally.
I'm being controlled with my words and keeping in my the
nautical theme of this episode, but to me, they're the ultimate
Titanic ship because epic on every level, you know?
It's not just like 2 white people, it's like POC.
They never talk about their sexuality just is what it is.
They just are who they are and they're unabashedly themselves,
which is just it's wonderful to see in a in a staffing ship
particularly, that's not always the case.
There's usually like misogyny and patriarchy playing on them.
And so it was very fun to see that on screen.
It just the ending was completely unnecessary and
explained in a way that made no sense for the show, like the
showrunners. Vision for it was like heavily
laced in like Christianity, which came out of nowhere was
never part of the show and I promise at some point we will do
an actual episode about this where I will I will just rant
cuz I need to for therapy reasons.
We're really talk about it. But they were they were once in
a lifetime ship like for me, and just didn't need didn't need to
hit the iceberg. But some brilliant person
thought they needed to for artistic reasons.
I love that you've got them on the iceberg.
All of the ships will be like that.
Oh, so sad. It is sad.
I only do 2 episodes of the show.
If you want to watch me, watch them.
That's on our YouTube channel. It's very confusing for me.
Caitlyn's organic react just go to the part where Caitlyn or
reacts to the finale and just the five stages of grief.
She goes like that's just that was the reaction to watching
this does the five stages of grief and then fuck it, let's
fix it in fan fiction like Caitlyn gets there by the end.
It's great. Yeah, may they may they live
forever in Luke Jennings original book and fan fiction
where the demon that is Laura Neal cannot touch them.
All right? So that is my ship I am done
raising. Now we'll move on to a ship
everybody here is familiar with, and that is Alex and Maggie from
Supergirl. I love them.
OK, I'll start. First of all, Alex is a
character that I relate to so much.
She I just love her. Alex and Maggie just like the
supportiveness of each other. I mean, their journey to, like,
actually come together is a little bumpy because Alex isn't
really ready to come out. I mean, which is fair for Maggie
because Maggie doesn't want to be with someone who is just
figuring out who they are. Yeah, but they're about to get
married. And what happens?
They never thought to talk about I I think they did talk about
it, but Alex thought she'd be happy not having kids.
But she's always wanted kids, and Maggie would not change her
stance on it. I mean, kids are a big deal.
That is thing. I mean, obviously you should
really agree on it before you, you know, almost get married.
But I did. But they figured out before they
actually got married, so that's something, right?
Tragedy. Why does this have to be the
point that in ships. Because this is not the only
ship that ended this way. And it's female ships, Female
ships. Why does this have to be?
Why? This is the stupidest shit in
the world. It always has to come back to
the freaking One wants to have kids and one doesn't want to
have kids. And then that's the kid God.
This is the only ship that I've seen.
Have that women? Oh really?
Women are not just fucking baby factories.
Right. It's just there are more
storylines. For for women, right.
And the reason this came about is because the actor that played
Maggie had to go do other work somewhere, so they had to like
write her off the show. So they chose to do it with this
super gendered plotline that I fucking hate.
Because if they were two men, that would not be the thing that
breaks them up. Like they would never write this
for two men to be like, I want babies.
I don't. This would never be the problem.
They're like women babies. Boom.
They could have, OK, so they could have, they could have
centered it around her sister. Because one of the things I
loved about the show was the sister relationship between Alex
and Cara. And they got away from that.
And I started like not liking the show as much when they got
away from that relation because that was like the biggest thing
in season one. And so they could have had it.
Like Maggie needed to leave and she wanted Alex to come with
her, but Alex needed to be there with her sister because that is
her life. That has been better.
That would have been better. Yes, instead of just bringing
babies into the mix out of nowhere, if like Alex's entire
life. Like if she'd mentioned multiple
times to car like. I'm single.
I want a baby. I'm single.
I want to be because some people generally want to be parents.
I'm like, I'm not knocking any of those people.
But it's like with women, this thing tends to come out of
nowhere and break up relationships.
And it's like we've never heard you mentioned babies ever.
And it's so such a big deal. It's breaking up this
relationship we spent like a fucking whole season trying to
get. It's just so stupid.
It's it's it's however her. Scenes with wanting a child are
beautiful. Sure, just.
But like, the emotion, I just, I know, like the the way that they
broke up is bad. But like her, just that
storyline in general was beautiful with her scenes.
I just want to say that, but yeah.
But it is a left field gendered. Way, Yeah.
The way that I said it, they could when Floriana was free
because who knows how long the show is going to go on.
It went on a lot longer. They could have brought her back
and then they could have been OTP.
I don't know. Maggie's a police officer get to
reassign to another city. There's a million ways to
change. M16.
And one AM I5 right? There's a billion ways to do it.
Why is it babies out of left field?
That's the thing I fucking hate about this.
That was a stupid iceberg, just like the ship, because it was
beautiful leading up to the and I love Alex and I think Alex is
an important character who's somebody discovering their
queerness later in life, you know, and and this was the first
time I ever really saw that in somebody where it was.
Done so genuinely and beautifully and we talked about
in our like coming out episode I think we talked about Alex's
coming out journey and and her discussions with car and think
that it was just really real and authentic and like you can tell
that like she was so into Maggie that it like brought her to the
precipice for she's like yes, I accept myself this is what I
want to be. I deserve to be happy.
I deserve you. And that was kind of their
relationship where they came to that understanding with each
other and like to have that be the iceberg will piss me off
forever. I'm sorry, I hate that more than
anything. Because if they were men, that
would not be. This would not be the case.
But they were so happy together. Yeah, but they they, I
absolutely love them. They were a great couple in that
that show. Let's keep this sadness going.
All right. The next ship I want to talk
about Speaking of men, I want to mix in.
Achilles and Patrick List from Greek mythology and from media
wise the song of Achilles which I just finished reading and they
are the I will burn the world down for you ship and I love
that fucking shit like mythology.
Spoiler so they Achilles is, if you're not familiar, is 1/2 God
in the Greek mythology lore. He shows up in, like Homer's
Iliad, not the Odyssey. Which centers around the Trojan
War that's happening. Like basically the world was
over, which is a mythological war as far as we know.
And basically like the gods are like there's too many fucking
people on planet Earth. The goddess Gaia for the Earth
is getting tired. Let's start a war to get rid of
some of them. And so this is the war, yes,
This is how. This is the mythology of it.
So they start a war basically between.
What becomes the Greeks, which at the time were just a
collection of city states, they band together under an oath they
took between the marriage of Helen and Menelaus or, yeah,
Menelaus and like, basically there's a bunch of bidding for
this to marry this woman. And they all have to sign this
oath to be like, well, whoever marries her, like, we will
defend that, you know that marriage to to its very end
basically is what happened. And so a Trojan Prince named
Paris, who's duped by the goddess Aphrodite of love, gets
tricked into going after Helen and basically Cuck holding the
other guy, and so he steals her. It takes her to Sparta or Troy.
And then all the Greeks have to rise up and go win back Helen,
because they made this oath and it starts this big giant war,
and Achilles is. Was prophesized to be like the
greatest fighter, whoever lived or like of his generation
basically. And so he meets Patrick list
before all of this starts when they're young.
Achilles is a Prince and Patrick was a Prince, but he was exiled
and he comes to live with in Achilles's Kingdom basically
under like the you know he he he grows up with Achilles's father
with the the idea that he's going to eventually be a soldier
for that city state because he doesn't have a title anymore.
And so he grows up around Achilles, and they're around the
same age. And Achilles very famously like,
doesn't like anybody except Patrick List.
So it's like the anybody But you only you kind of trope where all
he sees is Patrick List. And like they become like bonded
as like it's like his second kind of thing.
But in the book told by Madeline Miller, it's a beautiful story
of like them and how they kind of like fall in love with each
other and go through this whole epic war.
And spoiler in the War Patrick list ends up getting killed.
By Hector, who's like the most noble of all, the Princess of
Troy. He's like the Golden Boy and
Achilles loses his shit so much that he goes on this like murder
rampage. He like kills.
Hector drags his body around the city multiple times, which was
like a big giant faux like he loses his mind and in the
prophecy like it basically said that like Achilles can't die
until Hector's killed, so like he doesn't his own self.
Because he's so blinded by his like, love for Patrick.
But so it's just it's a beautiful story and in the end
of the book they're like kind of reunited in the other world.
But their love is just crazy eternal.
And I just, I love it. It's the burn the world down for
you ship, which is like the height of like passion, like
gone wrong. But they were like doomed from
the start kind of thing because of like God's intervening and
like forces beyond their control.
But they still managed to have. Their happiness while they could
kind of thing. And it's beautiful.
I love that book. They're pretty.
So pretty. So.
The gays were always here guys, since, yeah, even the ancient
Greek times and before and after.
The days of yore and today. So we'll move on from them and
go to faking it. Oh my goodness.
OK, so Amy and Karma and faking it, another ship I really love.
So if you don't know what faking it is, basically it was a show
on MTV I believe. I didn't see.
It, yeah, a few. Years ago, as always with our
ships that we talk about, Karma wants to be very popular in high
school. So first she tries to be blind
and then catches A Frisbee when she's supposed to be blind and
she's like, damn it. So what does she do next?
Somebody, one of their friends that becomes their friend,
thinks that they're lesbians and karma's like, well, let's just
play into it and let's be lesbians.
So karma is like, let's just be lesbians, let's fake lesbians.
And then the first episode, they kiss in front of the school to
prove that they're lesbians. And then you realize Amy just
realizes that she is a lesbian and is in love with karma.
And so the whole first season is Amy pining after karma and karma
just going on and on and on about a, I was about to say
douchebag a guy. He's not really that.
He's just been caught in the crosshair.
Yeah, I mean, he's fine, but. He's fine.
He's just fine. He's not Amy, though, so we
don't like him. We don't care.
Just trying to come into her own and figure out.
And eventually, please ignore the dog digging a tunnel.
In the carpet behind me, Amy meets another girl.
She has a girlfriend. Karma gets jealous.
Big surprise, because they love each other, but they don't end
up together. No, they do not.
OK, because the show was cancelled because the the
showrunners or the writer, whoever thought they would get
more seasons. Like you can't do that with
queer shows. You can't think like they were
supposed to end up together. They're supposed to grow old,
get a house next to each other or and I don't know, but they're
supposed to get together in college, I believe.
Yes, it was college, yeah. But it was like, did you really
think you're going to have a show that would go all the way
to into college on MTV with queers in it?
No. No, Come the hell exactly.
Come on. That was, and I understand this
is like, I get it, but it was never going to happen if you
look at it from the perspective of the people who have sat here
and watched queer media for 20 some odd years.
I mean, it was a show titled Faking It, so it was doomed from
the beginning. Yeah, but it was.
I love that show. It could.
It could have been something awesome if they hadn't.
There were some things They made them hate each other.
The glue, Yeah, it's the thing that makes you love the show
like. In the third season.
It was third season it was. That was like the worst cuz
their friendship is. At least it's the.
There were ways to do that. There were ways to do these
things that were not. They just.
I don't think the writing was on in the third season.
I didn't like their fight. I thought it was nonsense.
It was a cop out. Yeah, I didn't like the pool
scene like the pool scene was. I feel like that was queer bit.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying is like, that's why I'm like it.
It hurt in a way because you're like, why are you?
Why? What's the motivation here?
The first season was definitely the best, yes.
I also like the second season. Like, with her, Like, you get to
see more of Liam, who is the guy that Karma likes, like his
background and he has like a messy family history.
And then Amy meets Sabrina. I'm pretty sure it's Sabrina.
Who? It's been a hot minute.
But I only show them by the gay women's channel name.
What is the gay women's channel name?
That's Janice. Ian.
Yeah. I've never seen the show.
I've only heard them react to it, and that is my Canon.
It's Janice Ian. They're all so cute together
that that ship goes a little better, but not much.
But Karma's always jealous because she loves Amy.
And like, I mean, even for friends, they're very overly
touchy. Close.
No, they are. They have a romantic friendship
from the beginning and it's completely obvious.
So which is the basis for the whole show.
But I feel like they did they did not use it appropriately in
the list season. No, I I have only seen the last
season once, I believe. I keep trying to rewatch it and
then I get like midway through season 2 and then well now you
can't find it really without paying.
Which I mean, yeah, support the writers and actors but when
they're actually going to get paid those money and not the
studios. Yeah.
Anyway, I just but they're they're really cute and I just
love seeing Amy's journey too. I wrote Fan fiction.
We were gonna fix it. My writing partner and I were.
We fixed it. I love that one of my favorite
scenes is Amy and the lesbian. Well, the Queer Cafe.
Like learning about all the different lessons in the.
Yeah, that was funny that I appreciated and I'm like, oh,
like. But The thing is, don't be like
me and have that show teach you how to be queer.
Because. Don't.
Yeah, don't do that. Reagan.
Who's that?
Strand of hand. Sabrina is.
It just like a character. I feel like I made that up.
No, I'm not allowed to Google. I promised you or I would not.
Google in this. I'm Googling any more things
about ARMA, ARMA, Amy. No tragedy, just that I love
Katie, who plays karma and. Yeah, I love her.
I came to the show because of the bold type, and I'm so
excited that she played like a queer character, even though, I
mean, it was messy, but like I was going to take it.
She kissed another woman. I was.
Wrote you were there for it. Yeah, I do love her.
She's a great actress and I just a nice person from what I was.
Great singer too, yeah. Speaking of great people, let's
move on to Emma Sue. Yes, so it's Emily, Dickinson
and Sue from the show. Dickinson.
Caitlin, you want to recap? It's been a little while since
I've watched the show, but Emily and Sue are best gal pals and
Sue becomes engaged to Emily's brother.
Well, they get married. Oh, yeah, well, they get
married. I just don't care about that
part. And Emily and Sue have a thing.
And I forget like the first season, like they kiss and
they're just they're in love with each other.
But Sue marries Emily's brother because, I mean, that's what you
do. And she, I believe her parents
died or like she's basically an orphan.
She's orphaned and at the time women can't have money unless
it's through a man or you just you're the sole heir and you
inherit money. So she was literally going to be
out on the streets. So she marries Austin Dickinson
and so then their neighbors and so so it was like, so I don't
think to me this is a Titanic trip because like the situation
in society at the time, you couldn't be queer even if you
want to. And as women, you can't be
independent. Unless you everybody you know
dies and there's no sons and you inherit all the money, like
there's no way to be independent at all.
So you're you have to be tethered to a man.
So both of them end up tethered to Austin Dickinson who's the
only boy in Emily's family and he ends up supporting Emily her
whole life because she ends up being a Spencer.
So these are this is based on real people and the actual diary
or diary poetry written by Emily Dickinson, where in which a lot
of it was written to Sue. What?
Her name was removed by the homophobes in Emily's family
when they were selling off her poetry, but later archivists
looked at it. We're like, wait a minute,
something was removed and all these romantic letters were
written to sue. So this is a real relationship
that actually happened. And the show was highlighting
that relationship that's been erased by on purpose by members
of Emily's family when they were like selling her poetry and and
publishing it and things like that after her death.
This is a real relationship that really happened, but they
weren't outwardly together because of the society they were
in, but they were in love forever.
Like it starts with them, like in the first season.
Like they were romantically entangled with each other the
entire their entire lives. I wasn't sure like, where it
went. I just like if they weren't like
end up together. They do though, like like if
you've ever seen. There's a movie with Molly
Shannon. It's one of my favorite movies
ever, ever. And Wild Nights with Emily I
think is what it's called. And it's about I wanted to see
it. It's about the end of their the
end of Emily's life. And they were together Emily's
entire life. Like they were just letting into
that. That's okay, but they are tragic
in the sense that they couldn't publicly be together.
You had to be married to a man. For financial stability.
Luckily it was Emily's brother, so they were always gonna be
family, quote UN quote, because of that.
So they were. They had an excuse to stay
tethered their entire lives and be very close.
So very smart on Scoo's part, even though Emily hated.
It and also who would like? It it's like, it's like you were
stuck in that societal situation where right, there's like too
many new options. She had to get married to.
Exactly. Cuz that was that's patriarchy.
Cuz like you said, there's only one actual person in history
that they also fictionalized that actually did get a chance
to live authentically and. And Lister, baby.
Yeah, and but again. And Lister, I was gonna add,
inherited. Inherited because her older
brother died, who was going to be the heir, The Lister heir.
He died, She by default became the heir and got all.
It was just amazing that she actually did inherit it because,
you know, entailment at the time was, yeah.
Such a I mean, yeah, what they did to her wife later was fucked
up exactly. Claimed she was crazy.
And then use that excuse so the men could steal all her.
Just really glad that that never happened with these.
Characters. So I I would argue that Emily
and Sue had a ended up having a happy ending in the sense that
they, their love endured and endured to this day personally.
But they were so beautiful and this show was super fine the way
it was done. It was such a great show, a
great. Show cuz like I don't like
period pieces. So it was enough modernization I
guess to like capture me. And I learned more about Emily
Dickens. Apparently not enough, but.
Emily Dickens is a whole other topic we can talk about, but I
love the way this was acted between the two of them.
Their chemistry was fantastic. There's a Taylor Swift song
because of course there is because their love is so
beautiful. But the actress that plays Sue?
I can't remember her name off the top of my head.
Forgive me actress that plays Sue.
But I know that playing this role helped her go on her queer
identity journey, which I thought was really special and
beautiful. So it, you know, she's like
playing. Playing Sue helped her come to
terms with her queerness, which is really beautiful.
So yeah, all around important show.
If you haven't seen it, it's on Apple.
It's only three seasons, which apparently was the intention
since the beginning. I learned today.
Noah Hunt, thank you. She's a great actor, but they
are so beautiful and cute and Haley's such a great, like,
physical comedian like she's. So great.
She's great. More lesbian roles for Haley,
please. Well, yes, please.
Haley's a great lesbian. She's a fun actor.
I really enjoy her on screen. So I love.
I love the show could could literally talk about it all day
and and the fact that this is. Rooted in real people and just
makes it all the more special that the careers have always
been here. Having relationships that stand
the test of time despite the circumstances they were in.
If you want us to talk more about it, please let us know in
the. Yeah, for sure.
Speaking of, well, I guess just sadness.
I'm going to talk about this ship, which is Danny and Jamie
from The Haunting of Blind Manner.
I'm not going to spoil the show. Because if you haven't seen it,
this is 1. Like, for me personally, this is
one of those pieces of media that blew me away in such a way
that when it was over, I, like, sat there and just reevaluated
my life. It was just so powerful with the
message of this show. So if you're somebody who
doesn't like horror spooky stuff, it's really not.
Horror in the sense that there's jump scary things.
It's done by Mike Flanagan and if you're not familiar with him,
him and his wife like create all of these like horror type TV
adaptations. I think Fall of the House of
Ushers coming out soon, but which sounds really good But he
loves to just show you that the true horror in life is just
emotions. And so it's more, it's not about
like scary monsters. It's more just about like
emotions, the way they torment you.
And that's kind of what this show is about.
But it's it's beautiful. And Danny and Jamie were not
something I saw coming, which is partially why it was great.
I watched it because I was like, I love the Haunting of Hill
House. I really like Mike Flanagan.
I don't like horror, but let's watch it.
This blew me away. Fun fact about this show.
So. And the act, the actress that
plays Jamie was originally not cast for Jamie.
So if you're are you guys either of you familiar with The
Haunting of Hill House. Yes Okay.
So with Mike Flagen, he likes to he casts his wife and everything
so she's in all of these. And the same cast that did The
Haunting of Hill House, which is another phenomenal one, also
queer. His wife plays a great character
in that. His wife is bisexual in real
life, but she she plays a great character in it.
Theo, who I love, but it's the same cast.
And then they're in this one and they're not connected stories.
They are. They're almost like miniseries,
like the shows, but they have the same cast members.
So originally Jamie was supposed to be a man, and the man played
Victoria. This is the one that plays.
Danny Victoria, they played twins in the other show.
So the executives at Netflix are like please do not cast people
who are twins in the other episode that that looks incesty.
So then they recast Jeannie and Emily Eve got the part.
So it was never meant to be a queer story.
It just that's how it got cast and which makes it all the more
special that it's just it's just about love and had nothing to
really do with the gender of the people.
It had to do with their love and like how it endures and like.
All that kind of stuff. And there are some beautiful,
like Jamie has this one monologue and Mike Flanagan
likes to do monologues. He has.
She has a monologue in here that's so stupidly beautiful.
I'll never get over it. And just the two of them had
this just beautiful love with each other where it was.
It was based on trust, something very real, and it it endured
despite their circumstances, to the point where it became like a
haunting thing later. But.
I was so touched by them. I wrote so much fan fiction
about these two, just because it was just such a beautiful story,
the two of them. And I just, I didn't see it
coming. And for me, that usually makes
it more special when it's just like, whoa, like, I didn't know
this was going to be. I mean, I assumed because it's
my plan again, there's going to be lesbians, but like, boom,
there they are. And because it's not about the
romance, it's about so much more than that.
And like, yeah, this, this. We were planning on doing
episodes about this this year but we for Halloween.
But the strike we can't do it. But maybe next year we'll talk
about Danny and Jamie and maybe the rest of the Mike Flanagan
gaze, cuz it's just so beautiful.
Sometimes I don't have the words like this, the show and these
two in particular. Wow, nice.
One day I'll watch it. That's so good.
All right, so we'll move on from things that I'm ranting about to
something we've all seen, which is Avatrice, Ava and Beatrice.
I put them in the tragic section because where Season 2 left off
was super tragic for the two of them.
One says I love you, one hears it, one says I love you, the
other one doesn't hear. It gets thrown to another
dimension. So tragic from where we left off
in the cannon. So that's why I put them here.
I mean, she pushes her in there and then says I love you.
Because she was going to die if she did it.
There are reasons, but they're tragic right now in the cannon.
So who wants to talk about? Ages they better become
untragic. OK if you've never seen Warrior
and I get just just it's there's we have watch our.
Episodes watch our episodes. We've we yeah, we have.
All of her reaction videos are on YouTube.
We have so many interviews and everything about Warrior and
just go check out our page. Yeah, if you really, really
watch it. And then watch her interviews
with the cast, some of the cast and crew, because we got the
interview. Christina.
So who plays? Who plays Beatrice?
Beatrice. No.
Warrior. None.
You've got Ava, who is tragically paralyzed when we
meet her from a young age because she was in a car
accident with her mother. So her parents or her mother?
Both of them. Parents.
So she lost, she lost her parents.
She's an orphan and she is in this kind of this orphanage that
is run by nuns in Spain. Well, by I don't want to have
people not seeing this. If they haven't, I'm kind of
like. I think I can safely assume our
audience has watched them. Murdered by the nun that's
taking care of them because she's absolutely bananas and so
she gets taken away, her body gets taken away.
A very magical type. What am I trying to say?
Why is my brain today? It's the Halo, but I'm trying.
There's a word that I'm trying to think of that's that's like a
piece of what. Anyway, so the Halo, which is a
thing that gives power a relic, thank you of some sort that
gives power to who, Whomever has it in them, and is used by a
sect of nuns that. Are literally warrior nuns.
So you have the warrior nun, the one that bears the Halo, the
Halo bearer. And they end up, she ends up,
her body ends up alongside the the Ted warrior nun and to hide
the Halo from the people that are trying to get it, the people
that are trying to get it. The they put it into Ava's body.
So Ava is not a warrior nun, not a nun at all.
She was just a person and she wakes up and is alive again and
has and can walk for the first time since she was 7.
And so she goes on a walk about while the nuns are trying to
track her down to be like, hey, you've got the Halo, so we kind
of need that. And since it's in you, I guess
you're the warrior nun, so she, for circumstances beyond her
control, gets reallived and given a position, resurrected
with responsibility. This is bisexual Jesus.
Yes, and then she needs Beatrice.
Who's one of the nuns is in the order, the the order of the
cruciform sword. So Beatrice is one of the nuns
and she is in this order because she's the gay and her family
didn't like that. And so she gets hidden away in
the order and she kind of comes into her own identity again
after meeting Ava. And of course there is lots of
gay yearning looks and things of that nature and you just
automatically you did they just from the the first I just geez
Beatrice's little monologue telling basically coming out to
Ava wonderful stuff and then they grow closer and it's one of
those are they going to, are they not going to?
Beatrice needs to get over her herself because she's like her
responsibility is to protect the warrior nun, all right?
And that's Ava. She and Ava get to go away for a
certain amount of time and live in an apartment together, and
it's super gay. They have a gay furnishings.
They share a bed and work in a bar and then when they have to
come save the world it gets all tragic And and she is, because
guess what, we're at the end and we're fighting the big bad guy,
Adriel, who is not an Angel, just FYI fighting Adriel in the
end and Eva is injured to the point where she's about to be
DED and that's when they choose right before that big fight,
they kiss each other and then she goes away in a portal, the
the portal of the butthole. My sister aptly named, I guess.
And Theora hates it when I told Theora hates it.
When I the fuck you, bring it up you.
Bring it up to actors. They don't know that.
So she goes through the What is it?
No, it's an. Interdimensional portal.
An interdimensional portal. The arc, Yes.
So she kind of pushes her gently into the stream of the portal.
And right after Ava says I love you and she's disappeared,
Beatrice says I love you. And then turns around and sits
down. And then it's tragic and we hate
it. And then they cancel the show.
Yes, but they'll be movies that'll continue it.
So for now, it's a tragic ship. We got it back.
For now, it's a tragic ship. But OK So what do you like about
And Beatrice, I love once again we've got opposites yeah.
But you can see genuinely the the acting is wonderful the way
the chemistry is wonderful. The way that the story is told.
A lot of people were have problems with the pace or not a
lot of people some people complained about the pacing
because it was like Oh my God are they ever going to get.
And it's like no, I it it makes sense for them to me because
that annoys me as well it when they're just not getting like
come on. But no, it made sense.
The characters were very well written that I love.
Once again, we've got women with weapons who are badass and you
know, can beat the crap out of anybody that they come up
against. And you have the very tragic and
one of my favorite tropes. The come on, my brain is not
working today. The reluctant hero, which would
be Ava, who embraces her role in the second season and you know,
does her best. I love that we got het baited
with this show. Like there was het baiting.
There's het baiting season 2. It's wonderful.
I like that the two of them cause each other to like mature.
In a way, yes, if you go on our discord server.
One of our lovely friends in there wrote a beautiful essay
about the two of them and their relationship and like sums it up
way better than I can in this episode.
So go check that out. Yeah.
They they hit all the marks basically.
And it's again, it's it's grounded in something real and
it's not just that you're hot. I'm hot.
Let's do this thing. So.
Yep. 10 out of 10 for Eva and Beatrice.
All right, let's move on to other ships that we ship that we
covered in another episode, which was the paper girls.
So they have a sapping ship of KJ and Mac and I'm putting them
as a tragic ship because of the show got cancelled.
But in in the comics basically they basically end up going on
this journey together where they kind of discover their sexuality
or their attraction to each other.
Again, it's based on like them trying to get out of danger and
they have to learn to trust and rely on each other and.
It's very sweet and really beautiful.
Even in the show what we have is is wonderful, especially K J's
story. But in the comic books,
basically at the end their memories get white.
So they don't remember any of the stuff that they went on and
their little romance that they had together.
But it like ends on a hopeful note of like maybe that
everybody will get back and be friends and maybe this can
restart where it picked up or a new way.
So just wanted to throw them in there because it is tragic but.
It's a beautiful story. Nonetheless, I love them.
I really wish we could have seen more of them.
I know it was. It was literally, it's some
fuckery that the season one ends with like the two of them
getting like tracked in a spaceship together and like
going somewhere else and so like it would have started with the
two of them together to like work through their stuff.
So it would have been nice, but. Here we are in the cancel your
Careers era, unfortunately, but the comics exist.
They are really fun if you've never read them.
They're easy to read and they're really great and insightful
about just like many things, humanity.
A lot of stuff we talked about prior, so I won't get into here.
All right. So that concludes our tragic
ship section. So we can't end any of this on a
sad note. So let's let's move into
platonic ships because. You know like the definition of
ship said like it's it's fans getting together and rallying
for two or more people to kind of like be either romantically
or sexually involved. So like to me, romance doesn't
necessarily can be platonic, like it can just be this really
deep connection that's like unlike anything else in your
life. But that was important to kind
of like highlight those ships because they're important and
for me the. An epitome of what platonic
ships are are Alana and Abby from Broad City, and the show is
literally centered around their incredibly unique, beautiful,
unbreakable friendship that has flirting in it that comes from
Alana and is not entirely reciprocated by Abby.
They're both queer, like in the show Abby in real life.
And Abby Jacobson is the one who stars in and wrote and helped
create the League of Their Own series.
This show is hilarious if you've never seen it.
It was on Comedy Central. It's basically about these two
disaster friends that live together in not together.
They live in New York City. They don't like cohabitate, and
it's just their daytoday journeys through like New York
and and really through the end of the show.
It's just about their friendship and how unbreakable it is and
how important platonic. Close friendships are, which is
the whole point of this show. And like the I'm so sad to this
day that the final season didn't get an Emmy because it really
deserved it, especially for the last episode and the way it
encapsulated that message with the two of the two of them so
beautifully. So to me, Ilana and Abby are
from Broad City, are just the ultimate platonic ship.
I fucking love them. They are hilarious.
Caitlin, you might like the show.
I watched a little bit of it. Get past the first season, yeah.
But all right, anything else about Alana and Abby before we
move on? Don't be suspicious.
Is that from this show?
Yeah, no, that's from Parks and Rec.
Wait, the dance that. Don't be suspicious.
That's Parks and Rec.
I was gonna do a Parks and Rec ship for this too, but.
Literally, the point of the show is their platonic friendship,
which I brought up, and they're queer.
So, all right, next is Caitlin's Platonic ship and what we've
talked about. Before yeah this is cuz I was
trying to figure out something and like this is all I could
remember us talking about and so Camila and Yasmin.
From warrior none. Yes, from Warrior None.
Those two are both chaotic and goofy.
And they just work well together and just to think about the
adventures they would could go on together.
Oh yes, I would love. To see it it's like not even
stuff that was like on screen. I don't.
Fully remember they didn't have
many scenes together, I feel like.
No, but they definitely had a yeah.
Yeah, but just think they could get into so much trouble
together. So much humorous trouble and you
know they both plot to get a mattress in some interesting
situations of. Course I want to see them plot
to get themselves in interesting situations.
They should go to a. Bar and try to get dates.
That'd be fun with erotic pastry.
Van I could see. I could see them.
They try to play practical jokes.
Totally, Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
We're trying to get nuns to go to a bar and get dates.
I'm sorry, where did the nuns start off in the beginning of
season 2? In a bar.
Is it? No.
So Caitlin, there is another ship there, Platonic friendship,
we've talked about a lot on this podcast and that's Tally,
Abigail and Rail from Motherland.
I'd argue that they are a platonic ship because they are
witches and they're a Covent and they have not really.
In the in the layman term, not the motherland term, but they're
essentially bonded together as a unit and so like they do have a
deep meaningful friendship that's very platonic and unique
and it's what gets them through the whole entire show like
intact. So I'd argue that they are a
they're a good platonic. We've talked about quite a bit
and. I love them.
And the three of them are so very different from their
backgrounds to their specialties to like their personalities,
sexualities, all that stuff. But they work, you know?
Yep. And they compliment each other.
So yeah, that was the other great ship of the show as those
3 as a unit, yes. So never discount your platonic
ships, especially when they're beautiful.
Okay, there's one last ship. Go ahead, Caitlin.
Theo's going to kill me for this.
I just want to give an honorable mention, even though we don't
have a slide for them because we brought it up.
If we're going to do the history, I think we need to also
put the bold type, the trio. And Oh yeah, that's a good one.
So Cat Oh my God. I'm getting their real names
confused with their show names Cat, Megan, Fakey and Katy.
Remember this other two kids? Really.
I don't remember their character.
Either. Oh my gosh.
The bold type. Yes, the bold type.
The trio, they are always so supportive of each other and
they're just like getting through life and New York
together. And I just they're very nice.
I love them so much. They're the friendship is just
something I've always wanted and I finally.
I wish we were all together in the same town.
I know. But yeah, so check out that show
as well that. Show is really great and there's
crew stuff in it. Yes.
All right. So the last up for before we get
into the land of dreams. There's one worship we haven't
talked about that we've we have Caitlin and I have yelled about
on the show and I didn't know where to put it.
So I'm putting it here and that is.
That is from Exo Kitty, which is Kitty and Harry I.
Believe in all of my batters that say Kitty loves you.
So the reason? You don't know what to do with
the ship or what to call them is because basically, like we've
talked about this at length but in Kitty, essentially, yeah, you
can't say their name. Kitty essentially goes on a
journey of learning She is not a straight person, and it has in
large part to do with this character Yuri here, who is her
like queer sexual awakening or queer awakening at least.
And so where it ends in season one is like they have feelings
for each other and they've both realized it, but nothing has
happened. It's getting a season 2, so I
don't know if there's going to be a happy ship, a platonic ship
at the end, a sad ship. We just don't know.
But it is continuing. But.
It's. Something L GB T is happening to
Kitty and Yuri and so I had to put them here and shout out to
them. They're they're fun to watch and
I do like their journeys together.
They're very fun, they. Are but right now Kitty is most
likely going to start with Mino in the next season, which is
Yuri's. You're a life, brother.
It was bitter about. I am bitter about it.
Yeah, so we shall see in Season 2.
But they are the something is a happening ship and so.
I'm excited to see where they go.
They're also pretty cute. Together they are very cute.
Together I. Do love them.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
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Until next time, stay safe and hydrate for lesbian Jesus.