Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers queers, We are back with another super fun interview
today. We are talking once again to our
favorite intimacy coordinator. And I'm not just saying that
because he's the only one we know.
Welcome. Robbie Taylor Hunt Welcome back
to the podcast, Robbie. Hi.
Thank you so much for having me back.
I'm thrilled. We just love talking to you.
You're so knowledgeable and just so much fun to talk.
To oh, you're so kind. We love talking to you guys as
well. Yes.
And and unfortunately last time we were talking, it was during
the big strike that was going on, which has ended favorably,
which is really, really great. So today we're going to talk
specifically about the Red White and Robo project and all the
details because we weren't, you know, allowed to last time.
Yeah. So first and foremost the I
think our listeners want to know what was it like working with
Nicholas and Taylor. Yeah, Nick and Taylor were such
sweethearts. It was so lovely working with
them both. They're just very nice guys,
which makes my life so much easier because they're just
coming to working with you with a nice grounded sense of
collaboration and wanting to talk about it.
And particularly, I mean, I guess the only thing I could
really speak to about it is in their relationship with talking
about intimacy, coordination and working on intimate content.
Intimacy, coordination being the slightly new thing it is, for
some people it's a bit kind of not controversial.
It's a bit of a strong word, but contentious or whatever.
Sometimes actors can come into talking to you with an energy of
either like, whoa, this is so wild or a bit like not sure
about this or or whatever it is. That doesn't happen so much
anymore. But we had that in the earlier
days, whereas Nick and Taylor just were so ready and and
wanting to talk about it in just practical, creative terms.
They just understood why I was there and what I was doing and
they were on board with it and and happy to to have all those
chats. So professionally very nice.
They're very collaborative, which is always very nice for
me. And then just, you know, between
tapes and all that, they're just nice.
So but that's always makes a difference when you're working
with actors. You're like oh, I'm just looking
forward to getting to kind of be around on set with them when
they're just kind of good people you can get on with rather than
sometimes actors can be a bit scary or a bit more intimidating
and etcetera. And that's not true for these
these guys. I'm.
Sure, everyone is happy to hear that.
Yeah. So imagine if I was like plot
twist. They're awful.
Like, they're so mean. I just said and just destroyed
everyone's everyone's dreams about what they're like.
Yeah, no, they're they're they're lovely.
So Alex and Henry are the classic Enemies to Lovers trope.
What advice do you give actors from making that transition
through intimacy? Yeah, that's such an interesting
question because obviously I don't get to work on a lot of
the enemy bit. When they're enemies, I'm not
around. Like, I don't see them, like
argument scenes. I'm not on set.
I'm at home having my lunch and then they're like, it's the
first kiss you're in. So yeah, I think it's probably
comes to in terms of my work, it's about understanding that
there's probably going to be kind of conflict there.
It's going to feel surprising. It's there's all those types of
character understandings we'll we'll go into maybe how we talk
around what the first instances of intimacy are and how that
might manifest. So that was definitely true of
the first kiss at New Year's where obviously that it feels
sort of full and and there's a sort of hunger to it but there's
it's conflicted and and all those that kind of energy I I
will bring that conversation in as I did Matthew and and the
guys to that discussion. So I think that's the kind of
how that legacy of that enemies might fuse into our work and
then how that transitions into into Lovers.
As well as just knowing where we start at with these characters
and then where we find them later on.
Particularly towards the kind of later moments of intimacy and
togetherness of like making sure there's a journey there and the
intimacy is part of that journey.
So you want to make sure you're you're doing justice to that
first enemy section, which obviously isn't as nice.
We like the lovers section more. But the pacing to get there
matters. So like you're saying, infusing
conflict like definitely does help.
Yeah, they can't just be like amazing, perfect, happy lover
straight away. Then you've got nothing, right?
You have to like do the, the scale, the spectrum, yeah.
Keep it dramatic, you know? But Speaking of like the more
intimate moments. So, as you may have imagined,
the the Paris scene showed up a lot in our comments a.
Lot. And people were just singing you
phrases for making that realistic and not gratuitous.
So when you were putting a scene like that together, like what's
your, what's your process for that type of scene?
Yeah well working on that scene was so special in terms of my
the the process as well there's lots of scenes like as my queer
male intimacy coordinator I work on quite a lot of queer male
content and so I'll often come to to queer sex scenes with
certain amount of of general. How do I approach this and and
thinking about the kind of tropes that we generally see and
what feels like we see too much of and what I know queer
audiences will roll their eyes at or get frustrated by or go
I'm I'm just so bored of seeing this even if there's some truth
to it. But just I've just seen it too
much and it doesn't feel representative or actually
there's no truth to it in terms of the kind of feel of the
scene. But then also importantly around
the kind of realism of the what I call as like sexual mechanics
of the scene of like what realistically can happen and
does happen for this type of sex act with people of these kinds
of bodies at this point in their life.
There's all that kind of stuff that I will think about and
bring in and bring to the scene, bring to conversations first
with the director. So Matthew, but what was so
special about Red Wine and all blue is is Matthew was so
brilliant and collaborative as well.
I mean, I've never had such a a process of collaboration in a
prep period before going into shooting.
Like I I was, you know, I'd met Matthew for my interview and I'd
got the job and then I had like my first meeting going into talk
to them and I didn't know how long I was going to be there
for, but I'd sort of blocked off the afternoon.
We ended up having like a three hour session, just the two of
us, like charting the moments of intimacy.
I'm now going away from just Paris.
But like all the moments of intimacy and thinking about what
the story was for all these characters, for these two
characters, and then what we wanted and what it had to feel
like and what kind of the positions would be and all these
things which we really liked. Did a deep dive on.
And I'm a like theatre boy originally and Matthew's a
theatre boy. I think it's a bit of that.
Like in theatre you have more rehearsal time, you can really
get into it and there's a bit more of a sense of that
collaboration. I mean, not so film and TV
people working that way as well. So that was so lovely and
special in terms of the process for this.
And then over the weeks as we filmed the the Paris scene, not
right at the end but like in the kind of latter half of shooting.
So we also had time during shooting to have more
conversations around it and update our thinking about it as
we were learning more about the characters through shooting and
the knowing the practicalities of what the set was like and how
much time we had and all those things of what we wanted.
And I blocked out some sort of storyboard esque like sketches
and things to show Matthew to be like, is this what you're
imagining? And this and these kind of
positions might be what we want. And just for it being feeling
creatively right, because we really wanted to get it right.
And also for just like saving us time and energy on the day,
which makes the actors happier as well.
Like, you know, filming any intimate scene is a very
strenuous thing to have to do. And so you're wanting to be as
clear as possible going into that, what's what, So that it
can be as smooth sailing as possible as you can get the most
good stuff out of it. And that was all able to happen.
So it's really lovely process for that, yeah.
Yeah, that's interesting that that you mentioned like that
level of like pre planning went into the scene.
It definitely shows and it's it's interesting to me that
that's not always the case because I feel like that would
alleviate like things from the actors and like everybody if we
kind of have like a game plan going in almost like, you know,
so that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, best best
practices. You have good rehearsal.
Yeah, we have rehearsal for the for the scene and as well and
like you have that rehearsal, you have that.
Everyone has those conversations like every time that's better.
There's there's never harm done by that.
Like it doesn't. Some people don't want it to be
too mapped out and they want to be able to be quite free and
find things on the day and I'm all about that.
But I still think having those prep conversations and rehearsal
time and you don't need to block it all out in a rehearsal even.
You can just make sure everyone's clear and talk any
issues through and what might happen and and get a skeleton of
it and then on the day you can kind of get into it more That's
that's my sort of preferred model and best practice
generally but it's either not possible because of schedules
and money and urgency and and one bits filming in Morocco and
the other bits filming in Norway.
So you can't get the right people in the right place and
all all of that but there's and but sometimes people just don't
want to do that because also they're like look I have to do
this quite intense time to simulate sex so I'd rather not
do it too much as well. So if we can do the kind of
minimal version that comes up sometimes, but for this, there
was a real sense of how absolutely central getting their
romantic storyline. And part of that is their
intimate life and and sexual life together, right?
So like, if we're going to get it right, we can't just hope it
goes well on the day. Like it is important then yeah,
I feel like it. I feel like it paid off.
People seem pleased about it, so.
Oh, just a little. They're only a little.
Just a little all. Good.
Were there any memorable moments for you from set?
Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, well, I mean anyone who
who works in in this stuff can tell you it's it ends up all a
bit of like a blur of like you go and you're just like there
and it all happens and it's all so quick.
You're just moving like you're so focused on the like moment to
moment that all sort of becomes a bit of a a whirlwind.
And then you finish and you're like, what has happened?
I, like, blinked, and I filmed for three months on this.
Whatever memorable moments in particular, you look like
you're. Just looking back on it.
So fun. No, I thought, I remember I'm
having flat. You could see if you zoom into
my pupil, you'll see all the things like that's a Raven
style. Is that really however of like
all the things going on? Yeah, I mean, I remember like
little moment, I won't disclose when, but little moments of like
where you're trying to figure out the choreography and this
is, this is me admitting my faults of like not
choreographing perfectly. So like something someone trips
or gets kind of tangled up or caught in each other and being
like not of the kind of like oh that's fun playful good for the
characters of being like the actors are tangled up and we
haven't figured out where their limbs need to go.
And and that being me, being me, like either making an offer that
doesn't work or it's unclear or something.
We definitely had some of that, like in the kind of fall over
the back of the sofa before when they're in the hotel room
before. That's in the bloopers.
I made it into the blooper room. I haven't even seen that.
I'll go find the bloopers. I'll do a react to the bloopers,
Yeah, well, there we go, Yeah. So things like that of me being
on monitor, being like of knowing that I just need to make
sure that they know where their knees are going so that no one
gets hurt. Certainly things like that were
memorable and then also like a thing often happens and and
these guys loved it of as I think they've talked about in
interviews we have as intimacy coordinators like barriers.
So you used different kind of like external barriers which can
be placed between actors to allow for there to be kind of
thrusting action etcetera. But that being going into
barriers rather than body to body, right, you use them
sometimes. And so as I often do when I come
to rehearsal as I kind of get out my bag of tricks and I go,
here's all the things we can use and blah, blah, blah.
And one of them is like a little Pilates ball.
You sort of deflate a bit and then that can go between people.
It's surrounded by material and yeah, I think they were infused
by that. I'm sort of amused by it as
people are. It was coined by Yaridor, an
intimacy coordinator I work with.
She kind of invented it and and she called it a bouncer, which
is quite funny as well. But then Nick, in an interview,
I think you can go find this interview, talk if they change
it or maybe I don't know. Anyway, someone like talked
about it as a beach ball and I was like, I don't know, it's not
a beach, but I don't really well, it makes me seem deeply
unprofessional. The Pilates ball has a certain
professionalism that I think so in case yeah, he ever says that
again. It's Pilates ball.
I'm very professional. It's not a beach ball.
I'm not sort of bringing Lilo's and and all sorts.
Just picturing this like bright colour of YouTube.
Exactly. It's just about like getting
that out in like rehearsal. You're trying to seem very
serious with your actors and you're like let's play beach
ball. But no, it's like a very
discreet little small neutral coloured Pilates ball that I
cover in a skin tone material. It's all very professional
rather than a beach. All right.
Well, I'd say it's a great segue into our next question.
So in the film like it's obviously like a romance centric
movie, but it's also like it's a romance.
So there's like comedy element. So when you have those two
elements together or you have romance and comedy, how does
that impact like choreography sometimes in an intimate scene
where you have both of those things?
Yeah, yeah. I really love working on comedy,
and I think it's so important. There's a real vibe that
intimacy coordinators are sort of like party poopers and a sort
of buzz kill on set and like, they were there to be like, no
one have fun. This is really serious and like
everyone stay away from each other.
And that's just so, no, not what it's about, right?
Like, it's about like making the scenes work and good and making
sure people are, yeah, being supported and and care for
through that process. But like ultimately that they're
in a place to be able to do their best work.
And sometimes that is by making sure that the space has a sort
of level of lightness that they can feel like they can be fun
and playful, particularly when the scene needs a bit of that
comedy, right? It feels so counterproductive to
be to come into like a comedy scene and to to come with an
energy of, like, this is super serious.
So I think I'm quite good at managing that balance.
And I've worked on like a show Big Boys in the UK with season
2's coming out soon which is also like a comedy and like
queer based and and that that was quite an early job I did and
that super season one and that was very like really being able
to be like we're going to be sent like serious and
professional and careful about this but also enjoy the fun, the
silliness of the scene. That was true in in smaller ways
I think for this as well. Like, yeah, there's there's like
funny lines being thrown in during moments of of passion and
you know like the Red Room scene where they're kissing a super
passionate and then they break away and they're sort of going,
I'm looking at a bookcase and all that.
You know, like you need, you have to be aware of what you
want out of the like intimacy to feel so passionate so that that
moment can break away and feel like earned and funny.
So yeah, I I yeah, it's just having an eye for it and like
responding well with Matthew and Matthew and understanding what
Matthew's trying to get out of the scene overall and how it's
situate. Like how the moment of intimacy
situates in the scene and then how that scene situates in the
movie and not. And yeah, just making sure that
it fits in basically. Yeah.
But it's so fun to get to have a bit of a bit of the calm as well
as the ROM. I love that scene too.
So like, yes, I absolutely love everything you just said.
So besides the comedy, are there any specific scenes or moments
in the movie that presented unique challenges?
Yeah, I mean so we've I think with the, I know we haven't
talked about it yet. The scene polo scene where they
sneak off and it's all intercut like that.
I did. It wasn't the challenge in terms
of like the energy of it. Like I knew that the energy had
to feel kind of like really excited and like fiery and full
and like a release and all that kind of stuff.
But like maybe some challenges around exactly what we want, how
we wanted to end that you we like, you know what we see in
the end of that moment of Cos we wanted to have a sense of like
it was moving towards like something sexual or like more
intimate than what we're going to see.
But we also don't want that, don't feel.
We need to see loads of it in that moment.
But you also don't want to make it like really feel like dot,
dot, dot, so like there's a bit of like a balance to be made.
But obviously The thing is, is that editors are amazing.
So editors like, you know we we shoot a lot of, there's
obviously there's so much stuff that we shoot that we don't use,
but then edit it like how they edited it and cut it together
with the polo and like zooming in on buttocks, bouncing in
saddles and all those kind of things.
It's like wildly more intimate than anything we could have
achieved. It's like so good and it's just
brilliant and that's I can't take any credit for that.
Obviously there's Matthew and editing team.
So things like that. Yeah.
We're easy problem solves of that kind of that kind of stuff.
Challenges that's the main thing that I mean like you know
there's lots of things with Paris that felt like not a
challenge but that I I really like.
I think I'd feel a bit of pressure for the fact that Paris
scene of like this is the scene I always kind of wanted to have
been able to watch as a young queer person and like I don't
think we can get good like properly romantic scenes between
two men and then having sex because it's about like love and
connection. I I really, I did more stuff
now, but I still don't quite know anything else that does it
quite the same as red, white and all blue.
So knowing that we were coming into that, that felt like a bit
of a maybe more of just a pressure than a challenge.
It was a challenge I guess of of making sure that was true.
But also you know we're not making it's not like activism
necessarily like it's it's creative content.
It has to be true to the story and the characters first and
foremost, but also just aware of that thing in my head of like.
But also this, this has meaning out in the world for people who
watch it, right? And this this situates in a in a
in a vast emptiness for what queer people are used to
watching. So yeah, balancing like wanting
to do right for that and for queer viewers and and for my
like little teenage queer version of myself whilst also
making sure we absolutely prioritise the like story and
the characters and what's right for these people and bring that
to life. And doing justice to the fans of
the book and all that. All of those things felt like
there was a lot on top of that moment which is ultimately like
screen time wise, Not a long moment, right?
And so that was definitely a pressure but but never one that
felt like super challenging. It was always such a a privilege
and a pleasure to get to. Grapple with that and think
about it. Yeah, that that definitely is
unique with queer media. I would say in a lot of ways,
like you're saying where you're like, I wish I had this when I
was a kid, like heals your inner child a little bit.
Yeah. And I would definitely say that
like it, that unique opportunity definitely was executed so well
because we're still getting comments on the last time we
talked to you, which we couldn't even talk specifically about the
film. But a lot of the comments were
specifically about the film and how real it felt to people and
it did have a lasting impact. So I'm just, we're curious like
you know, how does it feel to be part of like creating something
like that that still has such a lasting impression on people?
Yeah, I mean even you're talking about their, I think maybe
because of the strikes obviously wasn't so able to like engage in
it. There wasn't that much as much
discussion about it as there could be.
So I just can get little like snapshots of things and some
very kind messages would people would come to me with that I'd
be like. But yeah even hearing you talk
about that it it is so yeah it's so special.
I'm so honoured to have been a part of something that spoke to
people and you know emotionally affected people and that people
can either feel like a kind of desire for or reflection or
feeling seen in any capacity that's like your dream as like
an artist at all in any capacity to evoke that kind of reaction.
And as I think we've talked a bit about last time like as an
intimacy coordinator, it's create.
It's a creative role and movement role.
But first and foremost it's like you know there's the kind of
safety and making sure well-being side of things.
So I don't always get to do a lot of the creative stuff with
this. It felt like I was it because
Matthew was so brilliant and the actors were so brilliant, I was
able to have more kind of creative input and so that on
top of it also being received so well, it's just so special for
me. It's I'm so like I'd be touched
and and and sort of moved by it no matter what.
And then the the cherry on the cake of it all is, yeah, this is
exactly the kind of thing that I've sort of spent 15 years
going. I wish that scene existed.
I mean, so frustrated that it didn't exist and like watching
Brokeback Mountain and being like, OK, sure, but like why is
this all I'm getting over and over again in terms of what I'm
seeing on screen? Yeah.
So, and I and I think I kind of hoped that people would be like,
oh, great, I'm pleased about that being a new thing.
But I feel like, yeah, there's a bit of a buzz to it that that I
didn't expect it to speak to people as much or in such such
deep ways that some people seem to be responding.
It's just amazing. Oh my God, yeah.
Just I'm so, so thrilled and so happy to hear that.
I think it just shows how important it is and to to make
better representations of these things and and I think people
get a bit frustrated by the idea that we have to you know think
about it in those kind of activism you terms or like
whatever but you you can't avoid it.
Like we are just so starved for good intimate storytelling that
it is going to mean more to queer.
Like you just can't. Sure, you might want to just do
a queer scene and it like not be a big deal, but like, you can't
avoid the fact of it's going to mean something to people or or
people are going to view it with that eye, that eye of, like, I
I'm weird existing in a bit more of a void or have grown up in
more of a void for that really good storytelling, intimate
storytelling. So yeah, I'm just rambling now.
Yeah, very, very happy and pleased.
Ramble away. Yeah.
That is quite literally why we started this podcast.
And listeners, please leave Robbie more Love in the.
Comments. I won't be able to deal with it.
Thank you. So I went through our comments
on the last interview and we had some questions.
So we're going to butcher all of these usernames, but I we'll
try. So there's two different ways
I've decided to pronounce this. It's either Johnny Rich, 96 O
one or John N Eric or yeah, that's the only way I could
pronounce that 96 O1. But they wanted to know if you
helped with the non intimate moments at all, like when the
characters look at each other and have to convey emotions,
That's. A very good question.
So in terms of intimacy practice big picture we like can be
involved in those moments we sort of talk about like you
absolutely have to have an intimacy coordinator if there's
like simulated sex or nudity or like more involved like
passionate kissing in the medium like recommended but we won't
put our foot down is like kissing more mid level kissing
more like a light kiss and then very light kiss bits of touch
like eye contact connection chemistry that is like we'll
absolutely have things that we can supply and that we can help
and you there might be someone who needs us but it's sort of a
bit more TVC. So how it manifested for this
was I mentioned we had a rehearsal.
We had, we had a first rehearsal really early before, well, not
really early, but like before shooting, which was time I had
with the actors where we did some sort of basics of kind of
connection and intimacy and touch and exploration of like
breath and how to like have that connection and share that with
each other and giving it the professional structure so that
they could go to those personal places and know that they had a
professional structure to it. And then I was always available
if anyone needed. But then at that point they were
pretty solid and clear in it. Matthew was brilliant working
with them and very sensitive on that and felt very comfortable
working on that. So they didn't feel necessary
for me to be there for for the kind of moments of like
chemistry or look or like closeness and things like that.
And I think it's important to not.
I mean it's important to not just be around lurking around
when I'm not needed. Like I could have been there.
Sure I could have given some notes or thoughts or or or
whatever it is, but a you don't want people getting bothered by
you turning, sitting around all the time, not not being very
active. Because then it starts to be
like, oh then why are you here? Or like it can sort of affect
how you're there on set generally, which then might
affect how I managed to be on on other days.
But also it's sort of, I don't know, I worry it can get a bit
like patronizing or hand holding me when they're totally fine.
They don't like I don't need them to make a big deal.
Like it's feeling like a really. Oh like it will be a nerve
wracking moment where it doesn't need to be a nerve wracking
moment. I'd be like team you've got this
you know you're doing. You're good.
We've done our rehearsal stuff Matthews.
Amazing. You're great with each other.
Go to town. Right.
You'll you'll be fine. So that was how it kind of ended
up with this. Yeah.
If I was nervous that Matthew was a nightmare or that they
weren't able to kind of bring it to life, then I might have been
more like you probably should have me.
But that wasn't true. They they so knew the characters
in the story. They knew what they were doing
and it was run by good, good captain and in Matthew.
So yeah, I wasn't around for some of the moments of chemistry
and connection and things like that.
Second question from our comment section from at Michael Day
4598. This user asks do they have
awards for intimacy coordinators?
If not, the first should go to you.
I can't believe I won an award from Michael.
Thank you. That's so nice.
There's no awards. Yeah.
If you'd like to start the like campaign to BAFTA or the Oscars
or whoever it is to start doing Intimacy 1 Nation, you can.
I know that the stunt community have been like, why is there no
stunt award, which is sort of why that there's no stunt award
considering they literally put their lives on the line
sometimes, right. I think considering we've only
managed to get intimacy coordination like taken
seriously at all in the last couple of years, we're probably
away off our awards. But someone talked about this
recently which really made me laugh of MTV used to do maybe
they sort of do like kit like best kits award.
Yeah. Where they'd like you know
they'd just look at all the kisses that happened and be like
this was the best kiss in terms of just like most swoony or
whatever. And I think they asked the
actors and then redo it on stage which makes me more like OK
maybe but so maybe I've just got to write MTV and be like bring
back best kiss and and give it to me no yeah no no awards.
But I'll keep keep my eye out and certainly excited for my
nomination, Yeah. Get this man in a war.
I won't rest until I've got a trophy.
That's the only thing that will say to me, yeah.
You win all awards in our eyes. That's all that matters.
That's all that matters to me. I don't.
I don't need an Oscar. OK so last one from YouTube, I I
have no idea how to say this Lin now she got 3959 as do female
actors ever like kind of resent direction from you because you
may not know what it's like to be I mean you you're not a
female so you don't know what it's like to be them.
Yeah, it's a really interesting question, right.
My The main kind of like, I don't know if resentment's the
right word, but the main kind of slightly bad energy I can get
sometimes is working with, say, older or more experienced female
actors who all turn up as a male intimacy coordinator.
I'd be like, OK, I'm here to like, help and work with some
content. And maybe actually, regardless
of of my gender, there can be a sense of like, where have you
been? Like, you know, I've had to make
do my whole career and you're turning up now to be like, OK,
let me talk you through it and help you in the scene.
Like. And so there's a bit of, like, a
resentment from that of of like, how thicker skin people have had
to get and how much armour they've had to Don about this
kind of content. So then by the time you turn up,
they're a bit like, I've already figured out my ways of doing
this. So, like, why you here?
Like, who are you to tell me what to do?
And then particularly as a man they're like I don't need some
man to come and like tell me this stuff.
So that's that's there's been little little energies of of
that in my career generally. But generally people in my
experience think that me being a a male intimacy coordinator is
going to be much more kind of contentious or strange than it
ends up being. It's it's always come from in my
experience isn't it's I think I I mean I can't think of anything
where it's come from producers being nervous or worried that
this should have a female IC or or whatever it is And then I
I'll come into the you know I I, well I trained to be an intimacy
coordinator. I emailed being like am I
allowed to apply because I'm a man like is And they were like
yes cool apply. And so I came into it really
like nervous about making sure that I wasn't kind of entering a
space that really shouldn't be for me.
But I've worked with plenty of female actors and you know they
they I've never had anyone seem bothered because you're you're
and maybe it's. I mean they don't all know that
I'm queer but there's that might be a sense of it that I I'm
certainly not like very Uber masculine energy.
So that I'm sure comes into it as well.
But you know you're there and you're there professional.
You're trying to be professional and clear with them.
And sometimes I adapt my practice a little bit depending
on who I'm working with. So it might be about making sure
there's a female member of the costume team able to help with
things with modesty comments instead of me or someone near
whatever it is. There might be ways that you
sort of adapt your practice. But yeah, certainly if I ever
got an energy from a female actor or a non binary actor or
or anyone who's not males giving that sense of I, you're not the
person that I want to be working with right now.
Then if if that if I'm going to make them more uncomfortable
being there then of course I'd find a colleague to come in.
I have brilliant female non binary colleagues who could come
in to to work with them instead. But that's I've worked now for
many years and I've never had that or I've even explicitly if
a scene, if it's quite male dominated set and the scene's
quite intense for a female cat, a female actor, I've sometimes
been like, look I have female colleagues that I could bring in
instead if that would make you more comfortable.
And they've been like, no, because usually at that point
you've built up a bit of a relationship.
So they're like, I want some random like I know that you're
good, if I may say it to myself. So yeah, I think that answers
the question. Yeah.
It's. It definitely does.
They're they're totally are actors who are out there saying
I I want to work with a a female intimacy coordinator and of
course they you should be able to do that.
I'm not. I'm not coming in saying
everyone has to work with me. I have to say, this is the
second time we've gotten to talk to you and you just bring such a
comfortable, calming presence that, yeah, I'm sure that it's
amazing working with you. Thank you.
That's very, very kind. I hope so.
I mean, that's a lot of what we aim to kind of put people at
ease. Yeah.
Yeah, that's what we want. All right.
So we, we're gonna ask you a series of questions from our
Patreon members. And by members, we mean Mary.
So shout out to Mary, who left us like a ton of comments when
like over 30. Like, thank you, Mary.
Like we're interviewing Robbie. Here's 30 questions.
So, hi, Mary. So first question for Mary.
You weren't there when they shot the scene at the lake.
How did that go without you there?
Is there a question? Yeah, fine.
I remember. I think I checked in about it
afterwards because there was one that I was like exactly like how
close are they getting on the like pontoon?
Things like obviously I was clear.
I always clear and know what they're going to be wearing, so
I know what type of like trunks they're going to be in.
Sorry. I know there's very like
American English isms about like swimwear they're going to be
wearing and all those sorts of things to make sure that there's
no risks of things feeling more nude and exposing, particularly
when wet. So it had all those chats.
So that was clear. So there wasn't going to be
surprises there. And we've been clear of what
level of kind of intimacy was on the cards.
And again, it's usually like what's the kind of Max world
that we're going to be in for what we're going to expect
between these characters. And I get that very clear with
Matthew Director and then make sure the boys know about it.
And then I'm like, look this, you're going to be this level of
clothing. This is what the maximum is
going to be asked were that was quite late in the process.
So we were like, look, you know, how are you feeling about it?
And they're like we're good. And again, I'm always a phone
Callaway. And then and then everyone was
fine. Like, Like I say, really so
quickly. Like in rehearsal they were
already just so they got on so well.
They're just like good pals And then and also so respectful and
clear and about it that, you know, I was definitely needed.
I'm not writing myself out of a job but in terms of the like
holding space and care, they they were so already careful
with each other and Seth was generally really careful and and
caring and supportive and Matthew was sensitive with them
and the AD team was was great at working with them.
Costume was really lovely with the so you know, it meant that
there was all those things in place that men, I was like, I
know it's going to be great and they're going to be fine.
And because all those things were there, it was fine.
With other jobs I work on, it's a bit more like things aren't
great on set. So a moment like a scene like
that, I'd be more like I'm going to be there because it'd be more
likely that things would go a bit rogue or someone would say
something or whatever, whereas I was just very confident that
wasn't going to happen. Nana didn't, and everyone had a
good time. That's awesome.
Love comfortable, great environments.
Yeah. Go on, Mary.
All right. So Mary gets a little more
specific in this one. OK, so the touching of the toes,
is that from you or the director or the guys doing it naturally?
It really added realism and intimacy.
I love that. Oh my gosh.
I wish I could, like, transport my brain back and know exactly
where all these moments came from.
I don't think I'm going to give you a good answer, Mary.
I imagine my nice slightly cop out answer is it will always be
a bit of a mix. It definitely wasn't me being
like let's do toe touch, toe moment, here we go action, we
would have talked about where touch could because some people
really don't like their feet being touched or anything,
right. So we talked about that.
That would have been clear. So we knew that was on the cards
as like, we could use. And then I imagine it would have
been a thing that we were filming.
And then that was sort of like, you know, by the nature of body
positions, feet were kind of close.
And then we go like, oh, that's a good moment.
We should catch as well. You know, we have like a
structure in a plan. And then you of course discover
things when you're there. So maybe that came out of it
that way. I don't remember it being
Matthew or the actors or me being like, let's definitely get
that. I think it was like let's we
knew we wanted lots of little moments of cutaways of bits of
touch, right. So I think we knew that was
probably on the cards as an option and then seeing it, it
like worked and then we had it. But yeah, but the guys were
always discovering like great things.
It would certainly wasn't me just being like do this and I
sold everything, like so much of it came from them.
So I wouldn't be surprised if they were kind of discovering
that as well. Sorry, my memory's not good
enough, Mary. No, that's perfectly fine.
And then the next question is very similar to that.
So if it's the same answer, just let us know.
So she also wants to know, like in Paris night and then on the
raft, I remember this one pretty distinctly.
There's like a kiss on the shoulder kind of thing.
So again, is that directed versus like more go with it kind
of thing like you're saying? I think that was more go with I
I hate to lie though that definitely wasn't me.
I don't. I I never was like look picture
this kiss on the shoulder every time I I couldn't tell you if
there was Matthew or the guys they might have had a
conversation so I wouldn't like to decide for them.
But when you have that scope and that comfortable you've you've
made, you've done the foundations and the work as that
we were able to do. It means that you can find those
little things and it can feel organic and creative and and
characterful and them knowing that that's OK in a space where
they can find those discoveries. So it's probably just coming
from there. Brilliant work.
OK. So I think you talked about this
one a little bit, but did Taylor and Nicholas always seem
comfortable together or did they have to work on it?
They hated each other. They comfortable with each
other. I I mean, obviously I I didn't.
I wasn't there when they had chemistry.
I didn't. I wasn't there when they first
met in rehearsals, all those things.
So I don't know like a lot of that stuff will have happened
and just getting to know each other outside of intimacy.
Rehearsals dog. But in I mean I really I'm there
wasn't really things right? I was.
Felt like they weren't comfortable together, you know,
there's the understandable, normal sense of like performing
simulated sex or or intimacy is just a big ask for anyone.
And so doing that you have, you need to make sure you're looking
out to people and supporting people.
And there's can be certain levels of like fatigue that come
through a day of filming no matter what, particularly when
it's more kind of physically exertive whether that is riding
a horse or doing a stunt or having to kiss or simulate sex
or whatever it is. So yeah, I mean there's
certainly it's not like every moment was like happy, clappy.
Everyone's having the best time of their lives.
Like they're still working still trying to do that.
It can still be long and and frustrating and when shots
aren't quite working and having to get angles right etcetera.
So that was that was definitely at moments as it is with
anything and any moments of filming.
But I don't. I really.
I mean I know it would be more juicy and exciting if I could be
like there was this one day they really didn't get along.
But there's like, to my knowledge, they they were really
good pals and there wasn't. I mean, so I mean as you have to
get even with their good pals, you have to build levels of
comfort together no matter what. And actually, sometimes even
because they become good powers, it becomes a bit weird then
having to be intimate in a way that when you're like, don't
know someone at all, you're like, this is weird but in a
different way of like, we're just working.
We have to make it work with then your sort of mates hanging
out, and then you have to transition into that sort of
intimacy space so that we made sure we had a clear structure
for of how to edge and flip into that quality together and then
feel comfortable and supported. Yeah.
Which is with various little things we do to kind of let them
leave behind having a laugh on lunch break and come into a
space of getting into character and connecting intimately.
There's something that I'll I'd give them for that, But that's
not really discomfort. It's just part of that swing
flicking that switch and shift. Thank you that that makes a lot
of sense. I can see that being a double
edged sword if you're actually friends with them in real life.
Yeah, it's it's funny well. Then just go get pizza after
work and be like, yeah, so that happened.
Yeah, exactly. Sometimes if you have like, a
scene with one person, you never see them again.
You can be like, right, Right. That was again, whatever.
But then, yeah, sort of hanging out again for another like two
months of filming and and beyond.
Yeah. All right.
Another question from Mary SO. Last one.
Yeah, it was the last one. All right, So this has to do
with like, people watching the movie and then making a drinking
game out of it. So are you aware that there is a
drinking game people play when Alex smiles at Henry?
Henry shows Alex. Every time Henry shoves Alex,
people drink. There's it's like such a long
list, and I think there's a couple different ones, but I'm
like, how are you drinking? This is like basically every
time they breathe, take a shot. Is it what pounces A shove?
Is it like, oh, like little things?
It's not, like, just the big kind of.
I think so. I think it's the big enemy
shoves and then the playful shoves, right?
I can imagine people that being a dangerous game to play.
Yeah. Funny.
No, I didn't know. But I'll play.
I'll Why do I do like a sort of charity event where I I do it
and get everyone to drink along with me.
And we'll raise money for better queer representation in space.
We'll raise money for that, the award ceremony.
Yeah. No, the awards for your award.
Yeah. No, that makes sense.
You know, intimacy coordinators that still people should team up
and just have like an underrated is that That's the right word,
right? Yeah.
Underrated awards. Yeah, unsung.
Hero Award. I love it.
Yeah, that one. That's a better title.
I I mean, look, I love intimacy coordinators.
I I very rarely turn up at work doing something so dangerous
that I might die. So I think stunts probably
deserve that a little bit more in terms of getting the like,
unsung hero credit. But hey, you know, good for
them. But you, you established the
comfortability. That was a word with the actors
and that is also very important. That's true.
Thank you so much. You're right.
We win. This is a rival.
OK, so in a film with a diverse cast and characters, how do you
approach intimacy coordination to ensure like cultural
sensitivity and inclusivity? Yeah, yeah, it's a really good
question. Is this specific to this film or
is it like general? Approach general.
That's a general. Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, for me as an intimacy coordinator, it comes from
looking at like the make up of who's making a project, right,
and how I'm going to be a part of that picture, right?
As an intimacy coordinator, I'm one tiny piece of a very big
puzzle of people. And like I said, I don't
necessarily always have a lot of like power and say particularly
over how something creatively is manifesting.
So if I'm asked onto a project where it's like cultural
experience is different to my own, I will look at OK, who's
involved in making this? Am I adding to an already like
discrepancy of people who should be making this project.
And that's been true two projects I've worked on which
have been like predominantly like black stories that I've
been asked to come on to. But both of them were
predominantly black content like the the writers and directors
and and a lot of people involved with global majority and
producers etcetera. So in those instances you kind
of look at the team and you go and you make sure that they're
clear and they and you know they know what's going on and and
make sure that that the actors then.
OK or and again as always like we're talking about gender going
is there someone else that you'd like to be there etcetera.
And all of that kind of comes into the mix of just figuring
out how you position in that space and then otherwise, yeah,
cultural consideration. Just basically making sure you
have your eye on making sure like with everything, like with
queer content, cultural considerations.
Things too, with ethnicity, ability, age, like all protected
characteristics or minority statuses you want to go.
What's happening here that might be skewed because of the
stereotype or expectation around this or lack of knowledge or
lack of appreciation. So that will be how I'd I'd come
into those rooms slightly differently.
And I've worked with consultants sometimes I've worked on one of
those. There was actually a consultant
already attached to the project about the specific community.
So I just made sure I had like really good conversations with
them about because obviously a lot of the work they were doing
is like talk about the community and the culture generally.
Then I was like, look, we have a talk about intimacy and sex in
this community and like anything I should be aware that I'm
bringing in here. And then you just make sure
you're like teaming up and doing all the things you need to do so
you can actually do your job with it and support people as
they need. Worked on a job which had sort
of like potential like kink BDSM elements.
And again, make sure I'd like talked.
I've done some kink BDSM like consultancy stuff before, but
did a sort of session on kink with a kink consultant to talk
about it and make sure that I knew kind of again creatively
about like representations of KINK and BDSM as well as
practical considerations of how to make that work.
So it's anything like that that you need to know what you're
working with. And if I ever didn't feel
equipped to deal with it, or that there weren't people
attached to the project or in the space with me who could deal
with it, then I'd have to either make sure bring those people in
or go, you know, actually this isn't for me, you should find
someone who can, and here's some people who maybe you should
reach out to, etcetera. But I also have this week go on.
We'll get more intimacy coordinators who speak to a
bigger community that it feels more able to go, you know what,
my colleagues better for this just to have my colleague.
But that hasn't been true so much yet, as we're still quite a
small pool, but it's growing. So now we're in a better place
that there's more representation in the UKI.
Think I was going to say you've mentioned that this is like
basically like it's you know, relatively new and it's, it's an
evolving kind of space like our specialty.
So that that is interesting that there's so many facets where
like you could have specialty within the specialty that's
really interesting. Totally, yeah.
And there's, you know, in the US, intimacy Coordinators of
Colour is an organization who, you know, particularly
specialized in that work. And there are definitely
intimacy coordinators who come more from the like BDSM kink
space. And some people come from like
sex workspace. And so there's people who are
like more specialized and ready to work on certain content.
And then it's sort of up to different people how much like
when I came to it working, the only thing I can speak to is in
terms of queer intimacy and queer male intimacy.
Earlier on, I think I was a bit more like if it's queer male
content, like I want to be the person there because it's like
my lived experience and I know and I can work on it.
But as I've gone on, I'm like, I obviously just can't do all of
the queer male projects as much as I'd love to.
And particularly if you're working on a project over like
ATV show, over 10 episodes, you're going to work on like
tons of different projects. And it's helpful to have a
consistent intimacy coordinator who might bring in colleagues.
But often people then don't want that and it get complicated, so
you're going to have to work on all sorts of content.
So for me it's about like upskilling and equipping our
community with the resources and support they need.
So I've done like workshops within the Intimacy community
about choreographing Queer mail intimate content, right?
So I work, I've gone and talked to training organizations and
and union and back to our intimacy coordinators there.
If you go, here's some things, here's stereotypes you should be
worried about. Here's some questions to ask,
going to burst your bubble a bit.
Here's some things that's really annoying that we see
unrealistic, blah blah blah. So I think that should be
happening that we all as a team like strengthen up, so that
we're going to be able to support people properly in those
moments. Yeah, no, I love that because
it's just more support the more people who are equipped to help.
Yeah, as always. Yeah, like Stronger Together and
all that. Like like 11 intimacy, quantity
will never be able to be like the font of all wisdom and like
know how to deal with everything.
So it's about knowing where you're like.
I need a bit of extra support spaces are and where you're like
this is definitely not for me, spaces are and just operating
with authenticity and integrity within that.
So you brought up earlier, before we started this interview
that you have worked on Mary and George.
Yeah. With Nick so.
Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Sure. Yeah.
Obviously I can talk less about that because it's not come out
yet. But yeah, I mean it's so funny
that year. I mean not like January to
January, but however, whenever red white roll blue.
And then into Marion George, I just worked with Nick for like
most of my year that year, which I think I've worked with one
other actor on two different projects.
But generally obviously you're working with all sorts.
So it's very nice to get to have that kind of long running
relationship with someone and you get development bit more a
shorthand and they know all the garments you're bringing.
They know how you work. You can do less of the like
easing them in and more like you know me, you trust me you know
what I'm talking about. Here we go and and I can just
get to it and Ditto. He could just be more clear with
me about what he needs what he wants and and it doesn't have to
kind of doesn't have to do so much of A dance around it
because we're just like look we know how each other work and
there's already a trust there. So that was absolutely that was
such a blessing and and so lovely to get to have that with
someone and as people will see and people probably already seen
from the trailer which I believe you've done a little react to
that it's a very different energy.
So please, red, white, royal blue fans, don't come into that
expecting your same old lovely Prince Henry because it is
certainly, yeah, a different energy.
Red, white and royal blue was a good warm up for Nick working
with American. Joy it was good.
It was that way round like that We that he made these projects.
Let's just say that. So yeah.
I'd be so curious what people
particularly the red white and royal blue fans think of it.
It's it was a really fun project for kind of yeah, queer Intimacy
again and with red, black roll, blue, obviously I entirely
worked with just two of them. Whereas Mary and George worked
with Nick a lot, but also loads of other characters.
So much intimacy from so many different angles, queer and not
queer and all sorts of of things and we'll see what what makes it
in. But yeah, I'm really, really
looking forward to seeing. It was such a we were filming
for like 6 months and it was like a lot of of big stuff going
on in that. And by nature of TV instead of
film, it's like often kind of quicker and you're like jumping
around different episodes and who's what and where you are.
And it spans a very long time in different countries and all
this. So it felt kind of more epic in
a way that was like whoa. And I feel like I less know how
it's going to kind of end up with red, white or blue.
It's lovely and kind of more contained.
And in the you kind of know you can chart these two guys story a
bit more easily. Yeah, we look forward to seeing
it. No idea.
No it was gonna be like, but yeah, certainly you're in for a
a fun experience watching. Yeah.
Can't wait for people's questions.
We'll see if if my award gets snatched away afterwards.
Never. I was fishing for that, yeah.
Good. No, we're excited to see that
show. It looks it looks awesome and
the what a great cast. Oh, Julianne Moore.
Absolute icon. Can't believe.
Yeah that was, that was amazing. She's so brilliant and NI vanga
amazing. Who's opposite Julianne a lot.
Tony's great. Yeah.
And like there's yeah loads of brilliant actors who I've got to
work with which was such a delight and I mean it's based on
a true story. Do you know, there's like,
there's Mary Villiers and George Villiers, Real like, you know,
which is just so wild and it's so fun to get to do historical
queer stuff of being like, look at all this queer stuff going
on. History.
You think this is invention? For the last 10 years, queer
people have been doing weird shit for hundreds of years over.
So I can't, yeah, I can't wait. I couldn't have said it better,
like if you guys weren't aware of the show, like go watch the
trailer. Yeah, yeah.
All right. So that concludes our regular
questions. So we're going to transition
into a rapid fire little game we like to kind of conclude the
show with. So this is I think new from last
time we talked to you. OK.
So we're calling this game the this is the would you rather
game. So very rapid fire, would you
rather? Oh, my gosh.
Stress. OK.
OK, ready. Yeah.
OK, first question, would you rather coordinate an elaborate
and romantic kissing scene in the pouring rain or a playful
and light hearted scene involving a pillow fight?
My heart says rain that I just. I love the gushy romance of
that. I've never done a scene in the
rain. I'm always looking for something
to tick off my intimacy card that I've not done before.
So I say rain. Awesome.
Would you rather design an intimacy scene that involves A
playful food fight or a serene and romantic boat ride under the
stars? I love food and I'm such a food
person so although so I want to say food but then food fight was
getting thrown around and not eaten and I don't get to eat.
It would be hard for me. So actually I'm going to pivot
away from just hearing the word food made me excited for that.
But thinking about it I think no I want I want boat that sounds
also like nice although that will be a nice shoot and I'll be
tired. So that is that is hard to, but
yeah, I'll give it. Right.
OK, let's see. Hold on.
I just love like all the. Considerations you just made in
that question Quick choices. There's a lot going on.
Gotta think it through, OK? Would you rather work on a
romantic scene that involves a series of hilariously mismatched
royal wardrobe malfunctions? Oh my gosh.
Or a scene. With the.
Characters. Trying to be discreet in a
crowded royal photo booth. A crowded.
Royal Photo Booth I don't know how that would work but.
You know that. Was the question.
I think I the like costume thing sounds really fun.
I'm I like the idea of that feels much more like playful and
silly and like you'd get to have lots of silliness whereas like
discreet stuff is fun and different way but you're having
to be more kind of subtle and contained.
So maybe the the big, fun, silly costume stuff.
OK, now I I. Have a really, really random
one. I love it.
If given the choice, would you rather?
Have a pocket sized. Dragon as a loyal companion.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to get through this.
But it. Insists on telling cheesy jokes
or a talking cat that gives sarcastic advice but can predict
the future. The.
Dragon makes little jokes. How good are the jokes?
Cheesy jokes. Are they, like, no cheesy jokes?
Or like, I roll terrible? I mean, I don't know.
It didn't. Let's say they're amusing.
Yeah, I'm not annoying. Amusing cheesy jokes I'm.
Such a cat, man, so my heart. Says Cat.
But but I don't appreciate too much sarcasm, I think.
I think there's sarcasm I'd feel I'd end up feeling too to like
this cat assassinating me in like Sabrina style.
What's he called that cat? Salem.
I think I'd be a bit like can
you please give me a break like at Salem?
So I guess I already we have lovely cat Ursula.
So I guess also for her to be happy I'll go dragon.
And I'd hope that the jokes veer on cheesy funny rather than
cheesy like, oh come on I would also pick the dragon.
Just. Because like.
You can whip what a what a thing to.
If you don't have like a conversation, starters whip up
the little dragon. Talk inside the dragon.
Tell a joke, all right, Would you?
Rather be able to talk to your past.
Self and give advice or talk to your future self and ask
questions about what is to come oh.
I don't I don't think a future I don't like.
I like not knowing like and my life is very sort of like I
never really know what's going on and I've sort of come to
terms with that and and I'm OK with it.
So I think I think not future also I'm not particularly
excited about like my past self did all right.
Figured his things out I guess maybe go back and be like past
self look like here's some things you don't need to worry
about like this is going to work out it'll be fine.
Like little reassurances I'd like to give.
I wouldn't want to give spoilers but I'd give some some
reassurance to maybe save me some and some like how do we
back on track away from that moments maybe so I could have
speed up some some things but even then they were good
learning curves so tends to have passed.
But neither gosh I'm so wise and profound.
I was thinking about this as your.
Answer. I'm like technically this is the
same option, just in a different.
Way. It just depends who you're
talking about. You don't.
You don't get a choice. All right.
So last question, would you rather have to get the sex talk
from President Claremont or King James?
Easily Claremont. Oh my goodness.
Easily Claremont. I mean that scene with Alex
where he comes out is just like, just this makes my heart
explode, right? So like, it's so beautiful and.
So I'd have any conversation I could have with her in any kind
of that capacity. Amazing King James.
Chaotic nightmare. Like, not nightmare.
You know true chaos as you'll see.
So I'm gonna definitely go Yeah, the former.
Just wish we got to see the PowerPoint I.
Know she had a PowerPoint and everything.
She's exactly. Exactly.
All right. Well, thank you for answering
all of. Our questions both good and
ridiculous. We really appreciate you and
spending time with us. Before we wrap things up and
sign off, do you have any final words for the the people
listening at home? No, just honestly, yeah, thank
you. So but there's.
Been little like comments of I've seen that I haven't
responded to or or anything and just thank you.
It's all very appreciate it. I'm so happy that people have
engaged in it and yeah big love to all the all the fans.
All right. Well, thank you.
Thank you. Once again for talking to us
today, we always appreciate getting to spend time with you
to everybody listening at home. If you haven't checked out red
brine and wear a blue, please go do that.
Also, Mary and George, go check that out when that starts
streaming on Hulu. I think pretty soon.
And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and get it up all
over the place. Bye, bye, bye, bye.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
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