Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree, I'm Theora. And I'm Caitlin.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're here to talk about it. Cheers, queers.
Today on The Big Gay Agenda, we are talking with Pierre Bellini.
Did I say that correctly? Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Pierre is a psychotherapist and the partnerships director for
Solace Mind. He works to provide mental
health support for the entertainment industry,
including the lovely cast and crew of Heart Stopper.
Welcome to the podcast, Pierre. Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Thank you, Pierre. It's so nice to be here.
Thanks for the invite. We we are so excited, we've been
dying to honestly talk to a mental health expert for a
multitude of reasons, but really they get to know more about what
you do kind of like in in the projects.
And so before we kind of jump into that, can you just briefly
tell us what soulless mind is and describe your role in the
company? Absolutely.
So Soulless Mind is a company that was founded.
Not too long ago, actually. Just right Before the Pandemic
by Sarah McCaffrey, who is our wonderful founder and Co And
she's an actress by background who later trained as a
psychotherapist precisely because she saw that the
entertainment industry and the creative sector was one of those
that people would easily dismiss into thinking of the struggles
or the mental health needs that they would have and.
You know, most people as audiences, we always think or
thought of the glamour and all the part of living in theater
and in the movies and on the screen.
And there's actually a lot going on for a lot of different
reasons and also way beyond just the actors and actresses that
work in industry. So she created this, the
beginning small project about having counselors who would be
psychotherapist and coaches trained of the special.
Context and needs of people working this industry, to them
provide online support through the pandemic in form of sessions
to the people working in the industry with a very flexible
model. Because I'm not sure how exposed
both of you were to psychotherapy.
I'd like to think, you know, when you're a minority, you're
always more exposed to psychotherapy than you know in
some way or the other and. It's the there's a commitment
with something like weekly sessions and at the same time
and in the same place and there's a lot of structure that
mostly come from the, you know, psychoanalytical, old school,
European white centered approach to psychotherapy to say it as
badly as possible. That's for a lot of people
working in the industry with crazy schedules, or many times
they're. Days and weeks and times not
even in their power to choose made it impossible to access
services like this. So the online platform and
making it as flexible as possible I think was the winning
card for. So let's mind to really start to
grow within the industry and like everything in this
industry, it's word of mouth and one product, one producer would
tell the other and then the other and we started working
with. A lot of productions, mostly at
the beginning, the filmed in London, which is where Solas
mind is based. And then because I don't have to
tell you as we're literally doing this right now, thanks to
the beauty of technology, we were able to support productions
also in the US&LA and New York and Canada as well, Australia,
all of that. So that's what we do basically
is just provide a very custom way to give support to people.
On the creative sector, and I say that because besides
television and film, we also support people in theater and
also in some other creative art companies and studios as well.
And in that universe, what I do as the partnership a person is,
I basically make sure that the productions or the companies
that want to work with us, they have exactly what they need.
And maybe the clearest way to explain exactly what my job is,
is that, for example, a production would come and say,
look, we're going to work about this specific topic, that it
seems like it could be very triggering for this group of
actors and the crew, and we're going to be filming in Spain.
So do you have someone that might speak Spanish for the
local crew that will be working there, but they're also have
experience in working with this topic?
And then I go into the catalog of all the wonderful clinicians
and coaches that work with us. We pick the people that fit the
bill. We assemble this Avengers team
of people available for the cast and crew, and we make up this
platform for the people to book in their sessions and get the
support. And then I just always have an
eye on to make sure that everything's working and follow
through the support until the end.
So I'm like the version of an account executive.
For Sola's mind and yeah, it's it's it's been really great.
It's been really great. So what is your like typical day
kind of like? My typical day is a lot of
coffee and a lot of emails, and most of the times I think it's
divided between the new productions that would, you
know, like I said, heard of us or looked us up online.
For many times also there's a wonderful thing that it's
happening here in the UK that I really hope at some point would
happen in the US as well. And it's that the British Film
Institute sometimes funds and make sure that part of the
budget of a TV show or a film would be devoted for mental
health support. And in that case the production
is given a list of services and one obviously would be US.
So let's mind and then. That's how new productions or
new movies or new TV shows would come on board.
So it's a half of those loads of loads of emails would be to get
in touch with these new people and say how can we support you?
What's been happening, What's going on?
Sometimes, you know, there are productions that don't work with
us from the beginning, but something happened during the
shooting of the scenes or during production.
And you know what? There's here in London, we have
some of the biggest studios in Europe where the film.
Big, big stuff like The Little Mermaid was shot here in the
Pinewood Street is here in London because they have the
biggest water tank to shoot, which obviously makes sense for
that movie. So you know, maybe production is
not working with us, but something happens on set because
these could be risky sets or this could be, you know, there's
a lot of construction that happens, so there's a lot of.
Unexpected events and then they would get in touch with us and
like, hey, this happened like people are not feeling okay.
Can someone come in and check in with everyone or just talk to
someone and so on. So half of my day would be to
talk to these new people and the other half probably would be to
follow up on the productions that are ongoing like on season
2 was hard stopper, for example, and and making sure that
everything's going well that you know there's not an issue with
the access of the. To the services, to the sessions
and making sure that everything is under control.
And lastly, we also have training.
Sometimes productions also ask us for a specific training on a
specific topic before starting some particular scenes or after
to process them. And that's something that is
well between the team we we share and I also do some of
those and I used to teach back when I lived in New York.
And so I love doing workshops as well.
So that's something that I'll see if I have the time, I'll
jump upon that. And yeah, I would say that's
most of my day. So like I said, I love coffee.
A lot of emails. A lot of people too.
I would need so much coffee if I were you.
Oh my gosh, that's. I just.
I love what Solace mind does in general.
It just because mental health is so important and I'm so happy
that people are more willing to talk about it now.
But what does a typical day for the people who work directly
with the people on these shows look like?
Do they have set times like normal or is it just free for
all? It's a mix.
You know, we have the privilege, which also came from Sarah's.
Our RC O's great idea, but we have our team of clinicians and
coaches that work everywhere around the world.
And that's really helpful because virtually we're able to
offer sessions to the people basically 24/7 because we have
clinicians working in Singapore, in Australia.
So if somebody wants a 2:00 AM session, they can have that
because for the psychotherapist that could be a 3:00 PM just,
you know, straight after lunch. So they all have us a set
schedule, but I guess what's also different from most?
I would say Councilman agencies or therapy agencies is that we
have a very short time that they can book in.
So for most of our clinicians, somebody can book a session even
2 hours before this lot. So it's a very short notice for
the therapist if you want to think it like that, and I speak
from my own experience where. And I used to work again in New
York or even here in London. And like, I don't take sessions
with less than 48 hours notice because, you know, you need to
arrange your schedule and so on. But that's one of the things
that we wanted to adjust for these people that have these
crazy schedules. So there is a structure in the
day, but you could get sessions booked on the go.
You know, you can start your day thinking, oh, I just have these
two sessions and then by the afternoon you actually have
seven or six. So it's in that way.
It is a bit of a free for all. And also I guess something that
I found really cool when I started working with Solo's Mine
too is that people might tend to book in sessions vary in a long
distance of time. So the whole idea of, like I
said at the beginning, oh, so you have this assistant art
director that will see you on Monday at 2:00 and then every
Monday at 2:00, you will see them for six weeks.
That's not the case. You might not even know when
this person will be able to have their third session or their
fourth session. So there's a level of unexpected
and always be ready for what's coming up that.
I think it's sort of unusual for the field of of mental health
and for psychotherapist in general, but honestly just makes
it exciting and just very different to approach.
So will these people be talking to multiple different
psychotherapists and like just like working through specific
problems rather than longterm? Yeah, that's a great question.
So it's definitely shortterm and I think in our case because the
projects are shortterm by nature.
So you know, I used to think when I used to work in in
colleges and counselling centers and I would explain to students
or parents. Why we have to be short term as
a provision and it's because you will graduate.
This is meant to be short term in any way.
With this industry is even much clearer.
You know, sometimes we support short films that will shoot for
three days and sometimes we'll be supporting TV shows that
might be shooting for four or five months for a short series.
And we have to be extremely careful to make sure that.
The people reaching out for support will be in a safe place
to discuss their struggles, their difficulties, their
issues, even just their thoughts.
And that the clinician will be able to have the space and time
to work safely with that person. And then obviously walk with
them into the next steps and then how to get additional care
if it's needed or how to get more specialized support.
If it's needed, so it's definitely short term.
I would say there are very few productions that ask us to have
unlimited amount of sessions for their cast and crew members.
Most of them will walk around those 5-6, which is I would say
unusually short term model. And I would say usual is
everyone will know this and please stop me if I'm talking
too much Psychotherapy talk. I hate what people do that.
But I would say this 5-6 sessions would be the usual.
So that's would say the average. And on the part of the question
of like will they talk to different counselors or
different therapists, the answer is it's up to them.
You know they are able to follow with the same clinician for the
sessions that they have. Allocated, but they're also free
to change, you know, And again, it's part of that flexibility
That for them specifically could be very helpful.
And an example, for example, an example for example.
Please remember that English is my third language, so anything
that doesn't sound consistent. Please, you know, have mercy.
You're doing great. Good, good.
But you know, there's someone that might speak to a clinician
who's a psychotherapist that specifically works with a
trauma, for example. And this is someone that might
talk for two or three sessions about something that a
particular scene might have triggered and made them
uncomfortable. But then, that psychotherapist
might. Recommend or suggest that they
speak to one of the coaches that we have in the team for another
session to you know think about strategies to really put that
into additional parts of the life that's not just on the set.
And that coach might recommend the the client that their last
session they should talk to our music therapist who specializes
in mindfulness and. Using music as a tool to connect
better with your emotions so that they're ready for their
work on set the next day. So that flexibility really
allows the person to go through different kinds of specialties
and and and nuances of the work while still talking the same
language that all our clinicians and and coaches in Solas mind
would talk. So could be the same person,
could not be the same person, but depending on the case, might
be a good thing. I love all this.
Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.
It's so fascinating. You mentioned earlier that
usually you'll kind of tailor the services based on the
project. And so for a project like Heart
Stopper, which is primarily dealing with like LGBTQ issues,
like, how would you tailor? Like the services for that
production and like why is that so important rather than just
having like a general approach to it?
That's a wonderful question and honestly something that we
really loved working with the team of Hard Stopper and their
production company Seesaw. We've collaborated with them in
many different projects. We're basically now a form
partnership and what we loved about them is that they.
A really focus, which is the way we always say should be on
preventive support instead of reactive support.
So there are many times they were the beginning.
One of the very few that contacted us from the get go and
said we want to make sure that this project up from the first
season is the safest for all the people involved and.
I'm sure you know if you've been fans of the show and you've done
all your weekly research as I did, most of the crew are L GB
TQ folks and which is already impressive to begin with.
And from the very beginning, they told us that they wanted,
they knew that they were assembling something really
special because of it, and they didn't want to sort of like
betray the trust and, you know, when someone comes to you.
With that kind of mission, that kind of approach to a project
like that, you really just want to step up to what they did.
It's like, OK, So what do we do about this?
And you know, we obviously make sure that we have people in the
team like myself who identify a square, but also people that
have trained or specialized in L, GB, TQ and specifically also
on trans struggles. And we crafted a couple of
specific workshops on topics related to, you know, those
things that I've studied when I did my Master's in counseling so
much and Minority Stress and all those things that especially
after seeing around the world and in the US specifically, you
know how it's really seems like times of just going back and
we're sort of trying to having to justify again why.
There is a layer of struggle and a layer of potential need for
support that someone who's not part of this minority might
necessarily understand it. It was really important for us
to make sure that our team dedicated to them would know
that, would feel that and would understand that.
And also you know again Sarah Fender, she's a mother and we
knew from the get go that this was a project with involve a lot
of young people. And I have to say, I was happily
surprised in a way, in the same way that the show did.
I think with all the audiences around the world, it gave me a
lot of hope to see how all these people in front of behind the
camera were probably one of the most engaged people with our
services. I can absolutely say that the
the the cast and crew and heart stopper were the ones that more
proactively would engage with mental health support.
With the council and support and again on a preventive space on,
you know the classic I have the space, I'm going to use it for
myself, for selfcare and not necessarily with the this thing
just happened, somebody helped me to deal with it, which is
again that preventive versus reactive.
So why was important to us? I think it's because of that
because they had a really big mission on their hands.
They were very transparent with us that they were trying to
achieve and we wanted to really match that and and offer that
kind of support to make sure that those people that spoke
with someone from our team would feel just as safe, just as
understood, just as seen just as represented.
You know all those things that it really seems that they found
during this project. So we we just mirrored that
mission honestly. That's that's the short answer.
That's awesome. Yeah.
Thank you for sharing. Why is mental health and the
support for it so important in the entertainment industry?
Wow, that's a question that I feel like we we, we could ask
every time. We're trying to pitch our
services to, you know, a lot of producers and a lot of people
that don't see the day by day. And the the short, super brief
answer is that everyone deserves to take care of their mental
health everywhere. So that will include these
people too. You know, the people that work
in the different industry, they're not superheroes.
They're not superhuman. And for me particularly, and
again, he has to do, I'm sure with sorry, coughing time,
apologies, this is the cold. It has to do with lifting that
minority experience. And just something that drew me
to this job and to solace is that there's a lot of people
unseen in the entertainment industry.
You know, we see the actors, we know about the directors, if
they're really famous, we know about the producers.
If they're really famous, they know about the screenwriters.
But you know, there are hundreds of people working on this
projects and. It only takes to watch the end
credits role on any episode of a TV show or in a movie.
Those are all people working on these projects and you know in
something. So I would say common such A to
find up a not so triggering example but still triggering
because disgusting about death. But if you're filming a scene
where someone is losing someone that the character really loves
about. Immediately we would think, Oh
my God, maybe the actor will be triggered by this, maybe the
other actor will be triggered by that.
And it's absolutely trim. And it's absolutely trim valid.
But we have to remember that there is someone who's behind
the camera who's shooting that scene.
There's someone holding the microphone who's also watching
that scene. There's someone holding the
lights who's also seeing the scene over and over, and a
community very dear to me, the editors.
Like the people that put together the episode of the
film, they're seeing that scene maybe 500 times for the whole
day. So, you know, there's so many
people that are exposed to the same things that could be
triggering or just hurtful or just, you know, stimulate the
thought that you never had before.
And those people most likely won't have the resources to pay
for their own mental health support.
Wouldn't know about mental health support.
Or won't feel comfortable to do so.
And you know, there are plenty of strikes right now happening
specifically about how people are being remunerated fairly for
the work that they're doing. So imagine on that list of
priorities the assistant, the second assistant editor of a
project. If they're thinking, wow, like
looking at that content for two days in a row without sleeping
really affected me, I'm going to talk to a professional to try to
see what's going on with my mind.
That would never happen. So for me personally, I feel
that that there's a lot of people in scene, all those
people in the credits role that deserve the same kind of support
and deserve to be recognized for processing all these different
realities and memories that they were exposed to every day.
And that's honestly what I think it's the most.
Revolutionary of this new wave of having mental health support
for the entertainment industry is that it's about everyone that
works there. You know, it's the Carpenter in
this, that decoration that reaches out because there's
something going on. And that's just really, that's
the biggest reward for for me as a psychotherapist who worked in
colleges, you know, for almost a decade before this.
To open the door to for people to understand for the first time
the value of working through issues, difficulties, thoughts,
struggles with someone else and not alone.
I'll take it, you know, that's the way.
And if that happens in one session, that's great.
And that person from now on, five years from now.
Will have the the structure, the system, the support to seek
mental health support. And they will say, yeah, you
know what, That time that was helpful.
That really helped me that that could be helpful or that could
be helpful for my kids. Great.
We've done our job. Let's celebrate.
Like that's more than enough. But I really think now more than
ever, it's about insane people. That's why it's so important.
I love that you brought up everyone behind the scenes.
I know you've mentioned that you've seen a few things.
We are very passionate about making sure that those people
are seen that aren't normally. And I also love that you brought
up the editors because they are watching these things over and
over and over. Yeah, So I I if you're watching
this, I did start laughing and it was only because I've done
editing and I know what you're talking about.
So I don't want anybody to think that I was trying to be
indesensitive or anything. I don't know that's absolutely
fine and and yeah and you know I think the perhaps a big
difference that we have as a team in Solas and I'm not saying
just because I think you know where the coolest but just
because I think it's as small as the coolest it's.
Okay to think that. Let's be confident, but honestly
in a lot of jobs, I think that kind of difference of.
We are part of that community. You know, Sarah is an actress
and I'm a screenwriter myself. So with being in those places,
you know, if if I remember the experience of the editors, like
when you were editing Caitlin is because I've seen, you know, my
friend from a project having those 48 hours of watching the
same scene over and over, especially if the director is
like a little less, a little more over and over.
So I think that's a that's a difference that.
We know that community, which honestly applies as well for a
presentation in minorities. And there's a lot of, a lot of
services, a lot of big, huge corporations that are, do you
say it in English, jumping on the weekend, jumping on the
carriage, like jumping on the train, but on mental the topic
of mental health in the industry, you know, as mental
health was before, like maybe in 5-6 years, and it just started.
Everyone jumps on it and was like, oh, we can offer that we
can attend to this knee. I think you're talking about
jumping on the bandwagon. That's the.
One, yes, Thank you very. Much, I promise you the
equivalent in Italian. Like, it's probably something
you know that makes no sense and talks about vegetables or
fruits, you know, And these are all these corporations that
might be created offering a large scale of healthcare or you
know, a large. Approach with like 5 many.
You know, see a lot of companies like we have 5000 clinicians
ready to support you. But you know and this has
happened before, we've heard it from some of the people that
work with us. Yeah, that's great.
They have to spend 3 sessions trying to explain them.
You know what a concept artist in the area of, you know, our
our direction does, and I don't think they really understood
that. I'm not able to.
Step up for myself and just tell my boss that, like, I'm not
going to do this because this is awful, because I would be out of
work for five years. So that tiny difference of I
know this, these are my people, these are my community.
I think it makes all the difference in the world.
So yes, I we see them all and we care about them all.
Yes. Yes, I also.
Must say that so Caitlyn is the one that spearheaded us
interviewing crew members, and she to make sure crew members
are recognized for the hard work everybody puts in.
And Caitlyn's always like watch the credits.
Everyone watch the credits. Absolutely.
That's a wonderful habit. And you know that.
When I was in film school, that's the first thing they told
me on my first class. It's like, you know, stay until
the end because those people deserve at least that 2 seconds
of your attention. And it will be the best spent,
you know, extra 5 minutes you have in the theater or like when
you're on TV. And yeah, I still do it, you
know? And those people deserve a
recognition too, in those two seconds or not.
So, well done, Caitlin. Thank you.
I was. I was also taught that in my
editing class. I was in a theater one time, but
I always got pissed off at the workers because they were like,
kicking everybody out during the credits.
They're like, there's no end scene.
I'm like, I'm not here for the end scene.
I got so upset. I'm like, I'm sitting here until
the end, right? It's not over.
Rightly so. I feel like the the Marvel
Cinematic Universe, at least through some people to stay,
right? But for the end scene, but you
know, I'll take it. If that keeps them under seat to
have that, sure. So quick question.
Since you you know your company and the mental health support
for entertainment, it seems like it covers like basically
everybody who could possibly work be working on a project.
What are common like I guess mental health issues or like I
guess areas of support that you would that come up commonly like
in your line of work for these projects?
It's a great question again and I would say that half of it
would be content related issues and the other half of it would
be industry related issues. So by counter related issues,
which is very self defining, but you know it's a classic, like I
said that there's something in what's being filmed.
That is triggering or it's uncomfortable or that also it it
happens, sadly it's not handled well.
You know, there's something that, oh the they're approaching
this topic in this way and that doesn't sit right with me.
So those kind of things or also relationships, you know, even
though there's been giant steps forward in the industry?
After me too and all of those conversations, Oscar, so White
and all of and all of those hashtags that happened, you
know, a few years ago. This is still an industry that
is very much based on authority and empower of decision, which
is why I mentioned at the beginning a lot of people don't
really have a lot of power on their schedules.
So that kind of relationships could really also impact.
How you approach your day-to-day at work and then the other half
about industry issues, I would say actually have to do with
more like work life balance. You know, these are people, like
I said that. And it's actually very
refreshing to hear these conversations now because of the
strike of the writers and the Actors Guild that.
People don't realize that this is an industry where most of the
year you're unemployed. You know, if you are an
assistant makeup artist, you work those three months in this
movie and the moment you the shooting ends, you're
unemployed. And then you know it's not
automatic that you might have a project filling the gap right
away. You might be waiting months
before maybe there's a chance of another project, so having that
roller coaster. Affects people's mental health,
as it would with anyone you know.
Imagine if you know if with any of us, it would be that you have
a job for three months and then you're unemployed, and then you
need to find another job and then you're unemployed and you
need to find another job. So especially for the craft
roles in the industry, that roller coaster of life can be
really stressful. A lot of these people have
families, have responsibilities, have depths and.
I'm sure no one is, you know, unknown from the stress of how
do I make it to pay rent. Imagine when you have the
instability below and and like I said, a lot of these people
don't make the thousands of millions of dollars that we hear
big stars in the industry make. They really don't.
And for people in the maybe in the more in the spotlight in
front of the camera. That instability of project
after project, it's also very much there.
And in their case I think it also comes with the if the
project does well, their ability to get another project goes up.
If the project doesn't do well, they might become unknown,
especially in this day and age of you know really so much
content be in front of you, at you.
They also might not be able to get a job for months or years.
And that can also be very destabilizing, especially for
people starting in the career, which is why to come full circle
to hard stopper a lot of the cast members, these were the
first big label jobs that they had.
You know, and I think we've all been witnesses how this amazing
TV show just exploded around the world and.
Every looked so much attention from it.
Thankfully, I think in this case also the writer who also was the
author of of the of the graphic novels and the books also got
the attention, which is great and I think it's a good thing
that in television the creators get a lot more credit than
directors. Many time I don't remember what
you were saying. Yeah, we missed you for a solid
few seconds. The success of of this TV show
happened overnight for all of them, you know, to be so
recognized for it. And when this happened before, I
think with this kind of projects and that's where I was drawing
my comparison with the Spice Girls, which, you know, it's the
earliest memory I have of something so big being a
worldwide phenomenon. It was very one way you know you
could. Be this massive fan and get all
the merge, get all the dolls, get all the records, which might
have been me, might have not been me.
We won't know. Well now, you know, with social
media and everything, the back and forth, it's so much faster
and so much more impactful. So I think for these young
artists to be part of this overnight impact of what they
were doing. Also was something that could
have been, you know, some a lot to process on.
And again, you know, these are people that I'm sure the life's
changed a lot after the first series.
And that's what this was. Going full circle to the main
topics that people will bring to realize what a career in this
industry could mean is also something that is on the mind of
of a lot of people, especially on their first experiences.
So yeah, I would say those are the the two big boxes of things
that come to our to our desk, to our zoom.
From all of them, awesome. OK, I've lost my place and their
questions. What advice do you have for
people in the entertainment industry struggling with mental
health but don't have the support offered on set?
That's another great question. This, this is a great podcast
because you guys ask all the great the great questions.
Thank you. Thank.
You and I think the best I can say is find somewhere to talk
about it. And you know, I say this because
especially as you're working around the world, you know,
there's productions and films that are shooting in Thailand
or? Even in history, Europe, a lot
of them. And they would tell us, you
know, that's great, the service you're offering.
But after I'm done, where do I get this help?
And the truth is that there are a lot of platforms online, even
if it's just forums, even if it's just, you know, legal
groups, and I don't even know Facebook groups still exist.
I'm sure this Discord, I know Discord exists.
There we go. You know, but to find a safe
channel to share the struggles because I think again in the
industry there's a lot of authority dynamics happen.
It's a very pyramid approach that so many people that we
talked to, like I said, they might be struggling with a very
toxic relationship or a toxic approach from their manager, the
boss, someone. And you can give the very cough
moment. So sorry, I wish I'd know how to
mute on on this. Oh, you're fun.
We're able to cut. It out editing, editing.
Amazing Rewind. So it's still very complicated
to tell the classic individualistic You stand up for
yourself, you go to that person and you tell them I'm not going
to do this or this is not right. Because for some people that
might just mean that they're out of work that very same day and
somebody will pass the the reputation in quotation Marks
and the person might never get a job again.
So it's it's it's very difficult especially I think to find a way
to speak up or to share the struggle or the the the
emotional difficulties in a space that's safe sometimes
within the universe of their. Team their coworkers.
So finding any space as possible, you know, likely for
some people we hear that that's actually their families that
they can go back to. And as uncomfortable as it is,
as awkward as it is, you know, especially depending on the
different cultures that we might be talking about.
Just share how are you feeling and what's happening, you know,
with the shooting, with these people, with the content.
Because I think you know the at least for me, the magic of
psychotherapy always happens when you just found this person
sitting in front of you who just listens and then does their best
to try to get it and offer you a less stressed, less involved,
less objective reflection of what's going on, so that you can
have a clearer view on what to do next, on what to think about
the next. And in a similar way.
We have that when we talked to our best friend, we have that
one. We talked to, you know, a remote
person on the forum that's in a complete different country, but
it has gone through exactly the same experience as you.
And the moment we we feel a little bit better.
By putting it out there, I think we realized the value of not
keeping it in and starting a cycle of thinking that this is
happening to me because I'm not good enough, because I'm too
young, because I'm too old, because I'm different, because I
don't like me, because I don't know if they're going to replace
me with someone else next season or something like that.
So just find someone to talk to, find someone to share this and
something will start to bloom, I think in in hope.
And that's honestly the best we can do.
And there's such a need for hope in this days and age, especially
for our community. So that's honestly my best
advice. If you don't have a professional
to talk to, just talk to someone, find a way, the safest
way to just let it all out. Write a song, you know?
That's what I love about music therapy.
It's just like write the lyric, write a poem, write a script,
write a story. You know, everyone in this
industry has a creative heart and a creative brain.
So even if it's just that, if you're talking to yourself, to
your page, to your journal, to your notebook, safely, to your
pals and social media, that's good enough, just bring it out
in some way. Because otherwise, you know, I
think that's what what can cause so much damage isn't.
Things are kept inside. And then you only have your
negative or darkest or saddest thoughts to support you, and
that might not be the best support you need at that time.
And that's absolutely fair and valid.
That happens with everyone, including myself.
Theora gets to hear all my problems, yes.
We do therapy. Our podcast is basically just
group therapy. Yeah, our all our feelings about
our show, it works. It really does you know make a
podcast, you know put it out there and even right now you
know we we we literally live in complete different spaces in the
world. And there is something that
United does and brought us here today to talk about something
that we are all passionate about and that makes us feel better.
I feel better. So it's, you know, it's good.
Absolutely. So for people like people that
work in the entertainment industry, very fast-paced, very
stressful, what are some like warning signs that people should
be aware of that maybe indicate that they that mental health
support is needed for them? To some people may not be aware,
absolutely. I would say most people, and I
will give you the answer. I give honestly to every client
that comes to me and might ask the question do you think I'm a
workaholic which again it might be a different version of
happens industry because like I said many people don't have
control over the amount of work the amount of time to put it on
it. But you know to the only thing
I'm going to say today that sounds very clinical to make my
professors at the Columbia very proud.
But you know the the biggest sign of misuse of a substance or
a behavior is that it's affecting negatively your life
and your surroundings. So to make the the most common
example perhaps with alcohol, how do we even I, you know when
I'm seeing a new client for the first time, know that this
person is really struggling with this is it's affecting their
work they're they're coming very late to work.
They're falling asleep. You know they're not coming in
time or they're always upset at work.
They're always sad at work and choosing when they have the
choice instead of spending time with their loved ones, with
their friends, with their partners, with their spouses.
They will choose alcohol. Or when they need to put the
priorities of what their biggest needs, that will put alcohol
first. So it's when you see that that
thing is crawling into your life in a very COVID way.
You know, like replicating in all the areas of your life like
a virus and takes over. That's when I would say yes.
I think this is across the threshold.
I think it's time to ask for some more specific support.
The same thing happens with a job.
And I think you know, if the work, the effort is taking over
your joy, your passion, and share the joy and the passion
with the people that you love or with your pets or you know with
the rest of your life around it, that's the time to ask yourself
the question what's going on? You know, why is there so much
devoted to this part? And why is this, like I said,
negatively affecting? Because listen, if you love
being on set 24 hours a day and that's your life and it makes
you happy and you go to bed smiling, fantastic.
But if you don't. And sometimes when we what we
see with our clients, they drag going to work and they feel so
sad and they don't know why or they feel angrier than don't
know why. And you know, it's just that
makes them going home really late, still angrier or sadder or
more frustrated. And then that causes problems
with the relationships that cause a problems with their
friends, with their loved ones, with their kids, with their
bosses at work. That's when I would say, OK, so
you know, this is supposed to be on some level enjoyable.
I think everyone working in the entertainment industry has the
privilege of doing something that they feel passionate about.
And once again, I think when we say that, we always think of the
actors. And Kate, Bill and Shad is so
passionate about giving amazing performances.
But it's also, and I've seen it you know that our director who
just crafts this amazingly new world out of thin air or you
know, the cinematographer also just like finding ways to shape
forms and and embodies and colors in the ways that we've
never seen before. And even an assistant producer
who's so passionate about just like scheduling to the
millimeter millisecond, everything that happens to save
all the money in the world, it's really a field of passion.
And that's that's really unique to me and that's really
inspiring and that's how it's supposed to feel.
You know, if we're working in this environment and we don't
have, even at the end of a very exhausting day, a little spark
of joy, a little spark of love for what we do, and we're able
to share that with the people around us, then it's time to ask
yourself, you know, a question of like something might be off,
or I'm not seeing something that's happening, or it's time
to evaluate if you know what's happening, what's happening
around me or what's happening with me.
So I would, I would treat that as with any job, if it's
interfering with being able to happily and joyfully enjoy the
rest of the years of your life outside of work, I would say
that's the time. Awesome.
I wanted to make sure that you came cool.
I was making sure that you didn't freeze again.
I absolutely love learning all about the mental health aspect
in the entertainment industry, but I think it's time that we
all get to know more about you. So we noticed that you are also
a screenwriter, as you've mentioned.
What inspired you to transition into the mental health industry?
That's a question that I got asked when I apply to study
counseling in New York. And I love giving the answer
because I know that this sounds like very separate worlds.
But at the core of it, if you really think about it, it's
well, there's people, and there's a fascination for people
and people's feelings and people's stories and people
behavior. So as a screenwriter, you know
that the biggest thing that they teach you is to be an incredible
observant and pay a lot of attention to the details on how
people talk, how people's think, how people behave.
And the worlds of every person has little universes so that you
can understand them and reproduce them in the most
authentic way. And when you think about it, you
know to be incredibly observant with people and trying to
empathetically put yourself in the shoes of someone completely
different than you, to then make them reach the goal of their
story. That's also what the therapist
does. So you know that's the romantic
way. The less romantic thing is that
after working in a small TV show for a couple of years, the show
got cancelled, which once again goes with the thing of work.
And I really needed a job to pay rent, you know?
And I started working in advertising and marketing as a
copywriter, which eventually led me to teach in colleges.
And I remember where I taught at that time.
I was one, the youngest and 2nd the only out lecturer.
So as it always happens in these environments, I was a magnet for
all the closeted queer kids in the classroom who would come to
office hours. He asked to ask me about the
paper, but also to tell me should I come out to my parents
or how do you manage to like, you know, just be out there and
feel safe about it, Just all these questions that would take
a lot more time than the scheduled office hours.
And they just made me think, you know, like I I like doing this.
And again, I like people's stories and I love to seeing
happy endings for people's stories.
And I'm like, well, listen, you know, if, if, if, if I'm good at
this, maybe I should like professionally be good at this.
And you know, because of it, I think of my very varied career
background and also I'm half Italian, half Peruvian.
So you know in in the USI think when I was studying it was
identifying as as Latino but as European as well.
It's there's a lot of stories in background in me that I think
it's what helps me relate to a lot of people as well.
And you know what they say, you know with great power comes get
responsibility. So I thought, let's do this And
yeah, and that's how I decided to study counseling and it's
it's been a journey and I'm, I'm really happy that.
So you did mention that the similarities between counseling
and screen writing does like you're now professional
psychotherapist like training. Does that now influence your
writing at all? Absolutely.
And I think to me that's the
biggest payoff, you know, because it it actually they both
feed themselves. You know I think it it it made
me Being a screenwriter I think makes me a better therapist and
being a therapist makes me a better screenwriter or I hope at
least because you know there's it's.
I think it's much easier for me to think of characters and
stories and the impact that an event in the past my having your
present behavior or you know, something that they say when you
study screen writing is that you you need to ground your
character on the behavior on something that really identifies
them because you need to get them at once.
You know and and I think you know think of Heart Stopper, for
example. And you know every character has
something that's unique to them, even if it's just that they're
holding a book. You know all the time you've got
them at once and you're like, I know this person.
Like I know exactly who they are.
The same thing with Dow, you know and like.
So it's much easier for me to come up with what could be this
one behavior because I see them every day in people you know and
and and I understand why they're there.
So it's I think it made me a much more aware, much more
people aware screenwriter, if that makes sense.
I. Think you just picked out yours
favorite character and all of that hurt stopper?
It's a dark horse. I'm really looking forward in
the new season to to see more of it.
Me too can't. We cannot wait.
It's gonna be great. So something I'm asking all of
the mental health people like any amount of background they
have. This is purely for theorup some
for me. Have you seen Yellow Jackets at
all? I haven't, but it's on my list.
It's on my very long list of shows to watch.
It's there, but I haven't yet. It's definitely recommended for
everybody in the mental health industry.
You just bump it up a few places on the list then.
Yes. And then come back and talk to
us about what's going on with those people.
We have questions that's, listen, that I think that's the
whole topic. You know, we can make a capsule
of like the mental health analysis of characters, and we
can be here for decades. I would love.
That well, we have plans to do it, so it'd be very helpful to
have someone actually knowledgeable about it.
I'm. I'm.
There. Count me on.
So another TV show I noticed this this.
That was the only way I could figure out how to transition
into this weird question. I noticed you returned to
Twitter just to talk about how amazing Midori Francis is on
Grey's Anatomy. First, I agree.
Second, I just watched the show for the first time, like a few
months ago. Very late to the game.
Very late. It's tough to ask.
What are your overall thoughts on the show, and is that a show
that definitely needs to have mental health support?
Listen, Gidling, how much time do we have?
You've opened Pandora's Box, Pandora's, you know, Dresser,
Pandora's Wardrobe. Pandora's bus has been open for
a long time now. But well, first of all, yeah, I
mean, good call. Like, yeah, I I've been off
social media ever since I started working in mental
health. But I'm just so excited by the
character that I said, listen, this is exactly what it says.
I need to tell someone. I need to tell someone.
I need to share this feeling. And Kristen Adam has been on for
20 years. So even a lot of the people
that, you know, we're a fan of the show with me when it
started, they're they're they're gone.
They're lost like this, like you know, and I just have I think 1
friend, my dear friend Julie that still watches Grey's
Anatomy with me out of loyalty. But I mean I think from a from a
mental health perspective of the characters, it's fascinating
because I think, you know, you have the unique opportunity of
see characters grow from 2 decades.
You know, these are people who started when they were
incredibly young and partying and now they have three kids or
they have, you know, several several dead partners through
their life. And so it's a lot.
And I think for me, especially as a writer, it's also very
interesting to see how the tone and the spirit of the show
changes almost clearly. And maybe if you've been
watching it closely altogether not through to that, it comes
even clearer to you, you know, through blocks of seasons.
But I really appreciate how especially during COVID and
after it sort of took this role of putting up real issues of
health and healthcare in the United States, particularly on
the screen as with COVID as well.
You know, and I remember reading how people were struggling to
think of like oh, but we're supposed to like escape reality
through TV. And I can almost hear the the
producers, the showrunner and everyone involved in the show
that yes, we should but this is too important to escape.
You know this is too important to avoid.
And and you know, the all the speech about COVID being real or
not and then healthcare and then women's choices, like they just
really put it out there and they make them deal with it.
And I think that's really brave. Sadly, it is really brave in
these days and it's really important because of the huge
platform they have. I also found it interesting that
through the years Meredith, the main character interpreted by
Alan Pompeo, goes through different therapists throughout
this 2 decades. And I also thought it was one of
the few times that that felt real.
You know the fact that she doesn't want to engage with a
therapist, that this is annoying.
Why would I want to talk to My feelings felt so much more real
to me than other shows or movies where they sit for the first
time with a therapist and they just talk about their whole life
and in three sessions they have big Eureka moments.
Listen, that never happens. I've been doing this for a
while. That never happens and neither
percent of the times you get a Meredith who doesn't even know
what they want to sit there. So that feel really nice.
Well, she has Christina. She doesn't need to talk to
anybody. I mean, listen, they shaped
friendship of two opposite personality kind of people for a
lot of generations and you know, calling people their person and
so on. And honestly I also think in
terms of mental health in the industry, first of all Ellen
Pompeo has been such an advocate for a lot of things that have to
do with justice and fairness within the industry in terms of
gender, in terms of mental health.
And you know, I think especially now if you see this
conversations and the interviews, there was a a really
interesting actors and actors and Katherine Heigl was
interviewing Ellen Pompe for the first time.
Those are my favorite things to watch in the morning with my
coffee. And you can tell that devolution
of the support that these people would get on set and the need
for it has been exponential. And I really want to think that
that's a good sign of the times. But you can tell that people
before were working and very harder and harsher conditions
where support wasn't even considered, you know, and and
once again, these are people that might be looking at, in
their cases, tragedies, you know, people dying on their fake
surgical beds over and over and over and over.
And nobody even stopped to think about what this might mean for
them. So yeah, I think, you know, we
could dissect the show for ages, but I think.
You know what? If you want to come back and
talk about that show too, I'm sure I could do that.
I'm ready. I'm ready.
I have 20 years of experience in.
That and I just watched it almost two times in like 4
months. So.
So you're basically a doctor now?
Basically, yeah, basically. I know so much Theora and our
other. Person that we do the podcast
with Bree are both in the medical field and I'm just over
here be like, well, I watched this show.
It counts. It counts.
I think, you know I've learned a lot of first aid techniques frog
grazing out of me. So you know, it's a small step
for medicine, but huge step from my confidence in helping other
people. That's awesome.
So, well, we're glad. See, now you're you're almost a
doctor of medicine too. So we're all.
We're almost in in that we'll transition to healthcare.
It has been a delight to get to know you better and talk to you
about everything. Thank you, Pierre, so much for
arranging to meet with us today. But before we sign off the
podcast, do you have any final words for our listeners at home
I'd say and if that sounds very definitive, you know it's like
any final words. Well, I mean, you know, I think,
you know we're all here to celebrate first of all Heart
Stopper and what it's done for the career community around the
world and and also what they sent in terms of mental health
and and support for people in this industry And I think for
the people listening and and hopefully there's a lot of
people in industry too is that investing in preventive support
is really, really worth it. And by invest I mean people
spending money on it produces, I'm talking to you and for
people to invest their time and that's I'm talking to everyone
that might be doubting. Is it worthy to talk to a
therapist. Is it worthy to go to ask for
professional support? And you know, when I used to
teach, I always used to say, imagine, you know, trying to
learn firefighting during the fire.
You know, while your room is on fire and you're trying to go
through an online course of how to attend to a fire.
That makes no sense and you will most likely die and your laptop
will explode. The same thing as a mental
health you know, we're obviously there to support people who are
going through things that happen in crisis.
But imagine how much more equipped you would feel if you
would be able to discuss with professionals and with mental
health practitioners before it reaches at level.
And when you're starting to feel a bit off, when you're starting
to feel like things might not be too OK, or even just thinking
about, hey, what happened if in that moment this thing happens.
I love to talk with people about, you know, different
scenarios. Let's come up with all the
different alternative multiverse versions of this issue and let's
working through together. But I would really think best in
preventive mental health support and tools.
I promise it's the best investment you can do.
Producers, if you're listening, check out Soulless Mind.
And to everyone else at home listening, please check out
Solo's Mind. They have a fabulous website.
You can learn more on there about this invaluable mental
health resource. And be sure to check out
associated projects such as Heart Stopper, which I'm sure
you're already watching if you're listening to this.
So thank you again, Pierre and everybody listening.
So until next time, everyone at home hydrate for lesbian Jesus
and gay it up all over the place.
I love that. Thank you.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
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