Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
So the a quick little background for the next thing I want to
talk about. Not it's just like a little
comment, but Theora has been teaching me Tumblr because I
don't I never used it before, ironically, since this is how
the podcast has actually started on Tumblr.
But I have started my journey of posting on Tumblr and one of the
things that I saw someone post by it's they're username is EJ
Caswell but with three LS at the end they this is what they
wrote. Some of you may say that Seven
Big Red hooking up and cheating on Carlos and Ashlyn is bad
writing, or out of character, or even a truly baffling narrative
decision. But have you considered that
they have a big prompt wheel in the writers room that a small
gremlin spun whenever the clock struck 12 and they had to write
it into the script? Or else trade their first born
to the witch outside in the hall?
Maybe think about that next time.
And then one of the tags is. They told me all this
personally. By the way, I love Tumblr, but
yeah, no, like that's that's what some of this relationship
stuff reads as. Like, this is what drives me
crazy about the show. Sometimes they do shit like that
and you're like, why this is very soap opera E.
I like this explanation, so it just made me laugh, and I hope
it made other people laugh as well.
But one of my other favorite scenes is ironically in the
flashback episode when Maddox comes into the room and she just
starts pointing out everyone is who is single when.
So basically Ashlynn is talking about how her and Big Red had
the most chill break up and then got Lactaid pills afterwards.
And Maddox goes, wait, so you're single again?
And then she catches herself and she's like, and Emmy, you're
single too. And Jet Miss Jen, just naming
all the single people. It's just the line delivery was
great by Sailor. It was very, very good.
But also it confirms that, like Max knew that she was about to
do engage in cheating when she was gonna kiss Ashlyn, which is
fucked. I just.
I hate it. It makes everyone a stereotype.
It's just stupid anyway. I I think let let's not show
cheating. Let's just say we need to be
committed to. People, right.
So This is why I'm glad they didn't actually kiss.
And it they start in a better way.
When everybody's single, I just. Wanted them to get together
after they broke up. I'm fine.
Get over it for like, I just want more of them together.
I know we oh, we never get enough.
We didn't get much. We got it though.
That's a win. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I just don't agree.
Nobody died, Caitlin. They could have.
They could have broken them up like.
All right, fine, fine, fine. I just love them so much.
I know big feels, big feels. So now after all of that, Ashlyn
is too nervous to tell Maddox that she likes her.
But like, I was thinking more about this.
And it does make sense, because it seems like Ashlyn can be very
insecure, especially in like the season one.
Like she's grown, but she's still insecure on the inside and
has that fear of rejection. And there's been a few times
where she immediately tries to withdraw herself.
If people aren't happy around her or doesn't like, they don't
want to do something that she suggests.
And so, like, I have a few points to like, back that up.
So when Nene enters the theater in season one, Ashlyn is playing
the piano. But as soon as she sees her,
she's like scrambling to get all her stuff together.
And she's like, I can be out of here in six seconds.
Like she just wants to make sure that she is not in the way of
anybody, 'cause that's how she sees herself.
Yeah. And then it.
The same thing happens when she sees Nene at the coffee shop
after her and EJ are fighting cause she feels like because
she's related to EJ, Nini's not gonna like her and she doesn't
want to be there if someone doesn't want her there.
And then this one, this one like breaks my heart.
It's like when she gets pulls off the turcit, the song that
she wrote for the audition for her Gina and Courtney.
She is so excited to do it because Courtney is like
immediately on board and and she like prefaced it by saying like
she feels like she has a sister now.
And like Courtney lost a sister, so she brought the three of them
together. But then Gina, I mean, she's
trying to make her own mark, like she's trying to figure out
where she'd fit in. So she wanted to do her own
thing. But Ashlyn's small dream was
crushed and she tried to minimize it so quickly.
She, I think she like either took the paper back or something
and then she just like, started walking away.
She's like, Oh no, no, that's fine.
Like, yeah, we don't have to do it.
It was a stupid idea. But she's took all this time to
write this song, tailored it to all of them.
It's just like, go for what you want, girl.
You got this and it's but the rejection is just too much for
her and she doesn't want to ruin it.
She cares about Maddox too much. Also, it's scary.
Like it's just it's scary it's these are high school kids.
They are not experienced in romance like, and I think that
the way she feels about Maddox is way deeper than Big Red and
that's part of what scares her. Like the how big those feelings
are are very scary #1 and then #2.
Like they're they started off as friends.
Like, yeah, text flirting or whatever, but like they're
friends who clearly kind of know each other at this point and
sort of like lose that friend that makes you happy.
Like this is like the Tao and L thing from Heart stopper.
Like it's really hard. Like once you cross that line
and go into the relationship territory, one of two things
happens. Either you stay together forever
or it ends. And then your either way your
relationship with each other changes forever.
So there's that fear of like I could lose you forever and we we
maybe won't be the same. Like yeah, with her and Big Red
they happen to be friends at the end.
But that is such an anomaly. Like that doesn't always happen.
So it's scary to be like I could if I tell you this like I could
lose you. I think that's more what she's
afraid of like lose you as a friend and potentially change
this forever when what we have is really great and I don't want
to lose what we have right now, even though like I want more
than this, you know, it's like that risk versus benefit thing.
And she's very much more on the risk averse side of it right now
where she's like the risk is too great if I make a move kind of
thing. Going back to what you said,
like her feelings being stronger from Maddox and then Big Red.
So we see in the flashback episode that she didn't have any
friends. Like she's not, she wasn't
around people. Big Red looked like to be the
first person, whoever showed her any kindness, like so he was
complimenting her like so obviously she's gonna gravitate
towards that more. So like, maybe she was mistaken
these friend feelings and like for someone actually being nice
to her and like seeing her because everyone sees EJ and not
her. Yes.
Yeah, so, and that's why this isn't so important.
Correct. And then I think with like
Maddox, she's also psyching herself out a little bit because
they started the same way. And she's like, well, what if
what if I am actually misreading this and like, my big fields are
just getting in the way and clouding everything?
And like that almost kiss was all in my head and it didn't
really happen. It was just like we're acting
out the song that's about people wanting each other.
So like, I can see where she would psych herself out because
yes, you're correct. That is the exact scenario with
Big Red. I really think that like they
were just friends that fell into a relationship versus like
people pursuing a relationship. So like her trajectory with with
Maddox, like I think from her point of view seems like it's a
I'm falling into the same pattern.
But like, it's very evident that that's not really how this whole
thing started. Like Maddox started with the
crush, and then like, they didn't pursue it because Ashlyn
had a boyfriend. And then Maddox got back with
her ex and like, the timing just never worked out.
But now it's like the timing's good, but Ashlyn is psyching
herself out is part of it, I think.
Luckily we don't have to worry because they both have feelings
for each other and they do finally get together.
They. Do.
So Madison for some reason sends Maddox a bouquet of heart chick
balloons, and it makes Maddox freak out.
It's weird. It is.
And there ends up being a card from Madison telling Maddox to
give them to Ashlyn, because the way she talks about her is how
someone in love with someone talks about them.
But like, Madison spent what, $65?
All these balloons? This was absurd.
Cute sentiment, but what? Oh my God.
But like Madison's spending money for Maddox to get a new.
Girlfriend. I guess I go, OK, out of a
context it's insane. But in the context of, like,
their relationship, I guess it kind of makes sense because I'm
not gonna say the names. JoJo Siwa's character basically
like, broke up with Maddox at prom like a year ago.
And that was the drama last year, right?
So like, Maddox was like very much dreading prom, 'cause she's
like, I got dumped on prom. So this gives almost like a prom
like scenario where it's like a celebration, everybody's dressed
up. It's like a fancy thing.
It's it's Maddox's big night, 'cause she's also about to go
off in the movie, which nobody knows yet, really, but it's a
celebration of sorts, right? And I think JoJo Siwa's
character is like, well, I still feel really guilty about the way
I broke up with you and the way that clearly made you super
distraught, all this shit with your brother.
I think she has guilt. So she's like, I can clearly see
that you've moved on. You're OK because she showed up
at the prom, right, 'cause she's like, I was they were friends.
And she's like, I'm worried about you, 'cause you're acting
weird and I think you're depressed or something.
And I just want you to be OK because we're still friends.
Even though Maddox probably still had residual feelings
because of the way it ended, which is normal.
But I think there's guilt here. And she's like, you are okay,
you're moving on. Please go move on and be happy.
So, like, I don't think with these characters, it's where did
she get the money? But like.
Well, who's not JoJo Siwa? Here's the.
Deal. Where does any of these kids get
money? They're just like, mom, give me
$100 to buy balloons and they just get it.
So it's Disney magic. But I think for that character
to be like, here's a grand gesture to be like, yes, please
go move on. Clearly you've already moved on.
Just you have my blessing. Do it.
We're friends. That's what that was.
And like, I think it makes sense based on their whole arc and
history with each other, that this would happen.
They're dramatic bitches. Who breaks up with somebody on
prom like come now? That's that's also true.
Yeah. Who does that?
I'm like. What?
So fucked. Who breaks up?
Somebody prom? You could have done it the day
after. I'm assuming Jet knew what was
going to happen the whole time because he's the one who tells
her to read the card. He notices that Ashland's behind
her, so he's like reading it out loud so we could just get the
shit over with. Well, like also Jet is the one
that brought JoJo Siwa back into the picture.
So I wonder if they again, all too much stuff happens off
screen that's actually important in the show, which is annoying.
But like, I wonder if off screen those two had a conversation
where you're just, he was like, well, your sister keeps talking
about this girl a lot. Like it's a lot.
It look at all these texts like it's just about this other girl.
And so she's probably like, tell me about her, is this real?
And like Jed has eyes and he's like, yeah, no, like she she's,
yeah, she's in it. She's in it deep.
And so I think that like they off screen how to chat about
this and we're like, OK, good, she's OK because that's why they
conspired in the 1st place. And I think together they're
just like, yes, let her be happy.
She's happy here. Jodi, Siwa are also moved on and
just came back into the picture because she was afraid for her
friend. Right.
So I think she's also relieved. She's like good, like we've
we've grown apart. You're OK to move on.
You're finally OK. Like, go, go be with the girl
You will not stop texting me about.
Stop texting me. Girl, so Oh my gosh.
And I wonder what Maddox says to Madison.
I think she's hard, like no. No, no, what she says says about
Ashlyn. They should send.
What does it? What does that mean?
She's a. Gen.
Z She's now sending a thank you card.
I don't know. Well, she said Balloons like
she's what she said. Chocolates.
Like everybody else on this show.
She's sending something back to be like, thank you, I don't know
what does JoJo Siwa want? A microphone?
A bedazzled microphone? A bedazzled microphone?
She's gotta get her a microphone from the aerostore inside it to
her. No, she needs a microphone with
her face on it. That's.
Some money, Anyway. What did you say?
I lost? What?
She. Are we going to sit still with
the microphone thing or back to what?
What are you saying before that? Before I got off on the
microphone tangent. I was talking about like how she
got the money to do it, but. We don't do that.
You said something right before that, but I can't remember.
I can't. Oh, it doesn't matter.
But yeah, so I think all of this kind of makes sense.
It's dramatic. It's a gesture of it's like the
it's like the big red conversation with Ashlyn, but
like, we can't get JoJo Siwa back, so we're gonna do this
virtually via Jet, which is how this whole thing started anyway.
So, like, it does make sense. And then the timing is just oh,
so perfect that Ashlyn happens to be hearing all of this.
Yes, So. But it's cute and I like the way
it's shot. Yes, it's the scene is cute.
Very cute. I am gonna like I'm so happy
that the scene exists. It's.
Adorable. So Ashlyn overhears and she's
like, she has this duffel bag and she's like holding onto it.
Not like with both hands, I believe.
And she's just like slightly runs up to her and it's like,
I'm not back together with Oh yeah.
That's right, 'cause now I just thought that she was.
Like yes, because you know Antoine comes back into the
picture randomly which is the next section I have which makes
no sense. And he.
He brings like this chocolate croissant for Ashlyn.
That's what he tells 'cause. He's French.
They're like, we have to. We're playing up on the fact
that he's French. Yeah, he's French.
So Maddox immediately gets upset because it's been like tag.
They're like, all right, I'm ready to tell her.
And then, oh, Madison is back in the picture.
Oh, I'm ready to tell her, damn it, she's back with Big Red.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot. Yeah.
So what happened was basically like, Maddox is doing the sound
or whatever, and she like cues into like mad, like Ashlyn's mic
or whatever. When she's playing it up that
she's with Big Red to get the French guy to leave her alone.
She's like, no, no, no, we're together.
We're really happy, like. As a way to deflect this,
they've never been happier. Right.
She's trying to deflect the creepy dude.
But then of course, because drama, Maddox comes into the
conversation when she's just saying they're happy and thinks
it's real. So when she gets the balloon and
and she's reading the card, she's like, this is doesn't
matter, 'cause she's not single anymore like I thought she was.
So, like, what do you want me to do with these fucking balloons?
And then Ashlyn's there. She's like, no, no, no.
I'm still single. That was a bunch of bullshit to
get a creepy dude away from me. You're a woman.
You understand, Right? So.
But then Ashlyn gives her this double or no, she takes out the
box that. Dewey brought all the way from
the camp, yes. And he loves those kids.
He doesn't want to admit it, but he does.
And Oh my God, Maddox opens it and it's a chunk of a tree.
So they they they hurt this poor tree just to get this little
piece of it that EJ somehow had time to carve.
Last season we talked about that, says Ashlyn Heart's
gadget. Which is the two of them, I
believe, yes. In a heart and like this, Maddox
is like you've had these feelings since camp and like
Maddox is so hopeful. But I feel like Ashlyn's lined
with no EJ did it. I feel like that's so terrible
because she's like, oh, you didn't feel it when I felt it
and someone else did this, Like, how is this a gift for her?
Like, 'cause it's not like Ashlynn did it.
OK, so. I think that when she's replied,
when Ashlyn replies with no, EJ did it, I think in her brain
she's nervous and 'cause she's doing the grand gesture finally.
And when she hear, she hear in her brain, she hears the
question, did you do this? And so she's like, no, I didn't.
I didn't do it. EJ did it because EJ could see
that I was into you even when I couldn't see it.
So like it. It's an admittance of feelings
without being like, otherwise I would have told you back then,
but she's like, I didn't realize it, but obviously I was so
obvious about it that my cousin could see it and then he carved
this on a fucking tree as evidence.
And like, the other part of it is that, like, that camp means a
lot to Maddox. So it's like a way to be like, I
understand this place means a lot to you.
And like, there's a piece of us now connected to this place when
we first met. And so it was a very romantic
gesture. Like, yeah.
So they have a really cute conversation and I I don't I
forget which one I should have written down the conversation.
But I believe Ashlyn says that she has every feeling for her
and it's just really cute. And then she ends it with saying
we should just stay friends, right?
Which, I mean, it goes back to what you were, what we were
talking about earlier with she doesn't want to lose her as a
friend, but like, come on girls. Also there's that but also I
think they're doing their negging thing that they they do
when they text. Cause your question earlier was
what do they what did Maddox text JoJo Siwa about Ashlyn?
I think that Ashlyn and Maddox were like this is how they flirt
text and they're just like we shouldn't do that, right?
We shouldn't do that blah blah blah.
And then they do it 2 seconds later like.
I think this is just like. This is not away from each
other. And then you're just like, damn
it, no, I want her. Like, we had a whole song saying
that I want we want each other. So they run up and there's like
a very quick kiss. And like then it's just like, oh
sure, we didn't. And and like they start making
out basically. Yes, And then Carlos comes in,
interrupts it, and then he. Basically, doesn't really
interrupt it. He just knocks and he does.
The dark thing from heart stopper like oh, you're being
gay carry. On.
Yeah, exactly. Does he take a photo of them?
I hope not. I don't.
I don't remember. I I feel like he did something,
but so he walks away and they're still kissing and I'm just
impressed that they had them kissed that long on Disney.
I mean, most we also be screened, but yeah, we didn't.
You see like them back of Maddox, so you know they're
still kissing. Carlos says it out loud.
So that's the Disney version of letting queer people make out.
But they we do see Seblos has a kiss in like season.
Like their first kiss is like pretty long.
So I mean, we it's just the lesbians that.
Can't gene a kiss for like 500 years.
So yeah, the lesbians are but OK, to go back to your question,
what? What did Maddox text JoJo Siwa
about Ashlyn? I think that she just did shit
like, Ashlyn said the funniest thing today, and I wanted to
share it with you. I think it was stuff like that.
Or she's like, Ashlyn sung the song and it was really
beautiful. It's crap like that.
I think she was just like commenting things like, 'cause
it's like, what do you text people?
What's going on in your day? My day was I was staring at this
girl all day, and here's what happened.
And I think that's what she's texting her.
And that's when JoJo Siwa was like, OK, this is, this is a
lot. This is gay.
This is really gay. I need to talk to your brother.
I feel like Ashlyn, Ashlyn said this thing to me and I can't.
I don't understand what it means.
Like, does she like like I don't?
Think she was doing that? I don't think she was doing.
Does she like me? Does she not like me stuff?
I think she was just like, oh, I observed all of these things,
but it's like the gayest shit you've ever read.
And she's like, oh, she has a dimple.
When she smiles, it's like stuff like that.
And then JoJo, she was like, wow, OK, you're you like this
girl, 'cause if she was like, oh, I like her like, those two
would have broken. Like they were like together,
kind of. I don't know.
I feel like we're shit like that.
Where? You just you just.
Will not shut up about this person.
And he's like, wow, OK, this is a lie.
It doesn't matter cuz Madeline's together now, but so they really
missed an opportunity with this scene, though they did.
OK, so we talked about Ashlyn saying in the Halloween episode
that she'll give her mouth to mouth as a friend.
But then when Maddox breaks the lighting board, it makes this
whole huge noise and people keep running up asking if she's OK
and Ashlyn comes up saying do you need mouth to mouth?
And it's just it's like very monotone and just like a
throwaway line. And it's meant to be a joke.
But when they kissed, they really should have pulled back
when their foreheads are together.
She should have just whispered. I finally got to give you mouth
to mouth. Yeah, that.
Would have been hilarious. It's so cute and just to round
it out, I love them. Can you tell?
Yes, got big feels for your ship.
So they end up together and we don't get much of them.
We've turned them together, but there is a really, really cute
moment once you know Gina does that whole thing.
Where they staying in Salt Lake? OK first of all.
Yeah. OK, so randomly Maddox is
supposed to go too and didn't tell Ashlynn no.
She's going to New Zealand. What the hell was this?
Writers? And she's just like, I'm leaving
tonight and that never comes up for like months.
Like, girl, what? Yeah.
And then Gina suddenly changes the whole location of the film
in her acceptance speech in front of like 3 reporters.
And so then it's fine and they're going to be together
now. But like, you guys didn't talk
about that. That's so fucked.
Like, the writers are terrible on the show.
I'm sorry. Let them talk like and then
like. It's like they're together after
that being cute. But it's like, I'd be pissed.
I'd be like, what the fuck do you mean you were just going to
leave and not tell me like, then maybe they should.
They should have stayed friends. Like when she said that, she's
like, yeah, because I'm going to New Zealand tonight.
Like, why did that come out then?
Like, Oh my God, that. Is very true, like why was?
It Maddox, like, yeah, I mean, I'm about to go to New Zealand.
You could have just put that right there and then.
Yeah. Wow.
To not tell your now girlfriend that is really fucked up.
I mean, I mean the writers, the they they wrote the other stuff
though, so that's good. That is good, but I don't.
I don't trust them with relationships, which is why I'm
glad it ended with them together on a high note 'cause I don't.
But you also, you don't know what like it was Disney's fault
too, because they can't always do what they want to do.
And Disney makes them change shit, so it might not be all
their fault. True, but like letting
characters talk about stuff. I feel like you should be able
to do that. I think we need more time.
And maybe not a flashback episode.
That too. That, too, all comes back to the
freaking flashback episode. Really doesn't.
This writing stuff has been in there since season one.
But yes, they. Were.
Choices were made, Caitlin. Choices were made.
So there were a lot of choices. OK, well, see, I'm gonna talk
more about them, but there's not enough.
OK, but the the last cute thing is Nick, when Maddox was like, I
need to have time in my schedule to stage manage for Miss Jen's
spring show. And Ashlyn comes running up and
just like, hugs her from behind. And they're so happy.
And I love them. Yeah.
Promise. I promise.
I'll get over it. You don't need to get over it.
You don't get over some ships. They're just, they're your
forever ships, your forever Otps.
They're really cute. They're very cute.
I'm just saying, all right, we do have to move on.
So it's almost two hours now. Yes.
All right. So let's let's just talk very
quickly about Big Red. He randomly ends up with Antoine
because apparently Antoine is. I don't know if he's gay or bi
or whatever. It doesn't really matter.
But he's like, oh, this was actually never for Ashlyn.
I wanted you even. OK.
It was the classic boy thing where he's like, I hate you, I
hate you. I hate you because I actually
like you. Because all of his comments to
Big Red up until now are just like, oh, you're nothing.
Oh, you're nothing. Oh, you're nothing.
It's yeah, So sure. Good.
Big Red gets a boyfriend. Great.
Next. I mean, I'll take more queries.
It just really seemed out of place.
Another thing I wanted to talk about is the comparison between
Misses Green and versus Misses Porter.
Because misses Porter. I don't think we've ever
actually seen her until this season.
She pisses me off, man. I know she's just so hard on
Gina. I know.
I just. I like Courtney.
How? Is she hard on Gina?
Because she's like she's not OK with her dating, but unless it's
Mac, basically. I mean, I wouldn't be OK with
anybody dating Ricky. Ricky's a loser.
Like, why would she be OK with that?
Ricky, who's never on time for stuff, who doesn't take shit
seriously and then like. That's.
Perfectly normal. Like I just, again, 16 year olds
don't make great decisions, so it's fine.
Gina's mom was just so pushy, and she like she wasn't allowing
Gina to grow. But Gina did grow.
She was trying to push Gina. Like, you know, some parents are
more heavy-handed than others when it comes to like being
focused on their success. Like E JS Dad was like this too,
but not because he wanted EJ to be great.
It's because he wanted to preserve his family legacy.
Whereas like misses like think about their scenario though.
Like it's just her and her daughter trying to survive and
like her mom, whatever her job is, which we never find out what
this job is where they're constantly moving around.
But like, she helps. With disasters like natural
disasters, great. So but so important job.
Mom's all like stressed out and shit and like has to raise this
girl by herself. Where the fuck's her dad?
Why don't we imagine Gina's dad? Like, why is it all on the mom?
Like, the mom's doing the best she can and she's like, listen,
you need to be successful because I'm successful and
that's the only way you'd like survive in this world.
So like, come on, Gina, Like, be successful.
Like, it's, it's not that big of a deal.
And then like, Miss Green and like Courtney, like, they're a
stable household where like they don't have to move around.
They don't have a crazy life. So like, they have the privilege
of being more relaxed in their like life.
Like the Porter, like Gina and her mom do not have that luxury.
It's go, go, go all the time. Like, that's just the life that
they have. So yeah, they're gonna have
different relationships because, like, mom's saving the world, so
she's not always around. So like, when she's around,
she's like, I just want to make sure you have all the
opportunities you need. You're taking advantage of them
and you're not gonna make stupid decisions based on a boy, which
she does in the film with Ricky by being like, hey director
let's she's already doing it. So, like, I don't blame her mom
for being like, hey, I off the boy.
Like, if you want to be an actor, it'd be great go after
one that's stable and knows what he's doing and can probably help
you succeed in this, like, business.
Not this like loser Ricky who doesn't even care about school
until like the last three weeks before graduation, 'cause he's
like, oh, I need grades to get into college magically like.
Come on, I mean like this too. Like what is this?
Technically, it was still like December at most.
But like he has like a two point something GPA, Like his potline
is ridiculous. And so, like, yeah, as Gino's
mother. I would be fucking concerned by
this. Too like and he she's caught him
like sneaking into her room like not a great not great from like
and like her and her mom to be fair have a different
relationship where they don't talk about everything clearly
because like they probably don't see each other as much as like
Courtney and her mom. So they don't have the same
relationship. But the relationship they do
have is very based on like what are you accomplishing.
It's it's like motherland. It goes back to like Abigail and
her mother. It was very like achievement
based affection. Like that happens.
And so she's like, well, you I need you to achieve like and
that kind of stuff. So I don't think it's wrong.
It's just it's a different type of parenting.
And if you. Yeah, if you compare it to like
Courtney's mom, it's like, yeah, I would much rather have
Courtney's mom. But like Courtney's situation
and Gina's situation are two completely different situations.
Season 2, like, where the hell was her mom?
Her mom was off saving the world and like Gina's living with
Ashlyn. So, like, they obviously don't
spend a lot of time together, but they they do communicate.
Like, she was always, like, calling her mom and stuff.
And like, you can't really be mad at her mom to be like, oh,
you've never showed up to a play until now.
It's like, yeah, her mom's putting out, like, forest fires
or whatever the fuck. Like, I can't be in a play.
Like, this is my job. Like, what do you want from me?
Like, sorry. It pisses me off when, like, the
single parent gets, like, cast as like, the bad parent when
it's like, she has a job that's atypical.
It's not a nine to five. And like, what do you want from
her? Like, God, where's Gina's dad?
Why isn't Gina's dad at these things?
Nobody's mad at Gina's dad. Like, we're just mad at the mom.
Like, come on. OK, fuck off.
The ship pisses me off. Like it really does like go
Courtney's mom. They have a very cute
relationship, but they have different life circumstances
than Gina does. Like they just do.
That is fair. Nothing else.
We will continue on. I also made a note that they
changed Emmy's personality completely this season, that
that happens a lot and she reminds me a lot of myself with
her scary ways of finding stuff. But it's not really scary.
It is just using the resources at her fingertips.
Just saying, OK, and we do address the mockumentary in this
season because Ricky S who the bleep are you guys?
There's also a lot more sensitive cursing in season
four. Like, we've only had it a few
times. So stupid.
Like. I think Jet tries to say shit
and then in the Halloween episode and that makes comes
into the window like dude, you can't say that they they say it
a lot this season. So overall thoughts on like this
style? Like the mockumentary?
Yeah. I mean, I like I for OK.
I like it overall cuz like I love the Office, which made it
popular. To be honest, The Office made it
popular. No, I've never seen it.
It really wasn't a big The Office was a massively office in
the America. It started off as a British
show, also did the mockumentary style and then came to America.
They adapted it and it got like 10 seasons, like it was like
insanely popular television show and that style then became
popular after The Office started getting successful.
So then we had like Parks and Recreation.
So I think for comedy it's great.
I do enjoy that style. I like it better when they never
explain it. Like here they did the 4th wall
break but then they don't explain what the why.
They're doing a mockumentary which I think is an in between
where like The Office, they kind of explain it at the end versus
Parks and Rec. They never explain it and like
the characters are just doing these like 4th wall breaks and
interviews and and like it's never explained, which is even
funnier to me that like the characters go along and we never
know why. But I like, I think the style
works in comedy in this. It was kind of weird sometimes,
'cause there's a lot of drama in this, and it was this excuse to
have a lot of, like, camera work that was very like supposed to
be like a handheld camera, which.
Sometimes was just like. Can you stop moving?
Like sometimes it was distracting, like I was trying
to like get screenshots to put edit these episodes and it's
really hard because the cameras are constantly moving because
it's supposed to look like a free held camera.
So sometimes I find it really found it annoying based on how
they chose to execute it sometimes.
But overall I think it's a it's a good format.
I think that works best in a comedy.
Or if you're just in this too. If you're just not, if you're
gonna like chalk a lot of things to being off screen, I can see
this working where you're like just have the character be very
explicit about how they feel. Because this is a show that's
not about subtlety really, it's for kids like it's geared more
towards like younger audience that perhaps isn't good at
reading nuance isn't good at like subtlety or foreshadowing
or things like that. So like to have a mockumentary
style. It helps I think facilitate to
be like this is what the character feels cause the
character is telling me how they feel versus like reading the
signs and being like oh I see based on their behavior how they
feel but like so I can I can see why it was.
And then in this show too it just so they can keep getting
more insane with all the meta stuff.
I think they just made them, made it an ongoing joke as
season to season to be like, how crazy can we get with this?
I I like that type of comedy, like just being self aware,
which is part of the why I loved Glee.
It's just those jokes like when Natalie said and please everyone
try to remain in your own parts. It's just like they're aware of
all the issues that they had last time that were ridiculous.
That's my favorite type of comedy apparently.
That's what I've been learning through this, like callbacks.
I like that too. Would they do callbacks to shit
that has happened before? I agree, I like that.
But I don't know that you need to be a mockumentary to achieve
that, right? So what do you think of the
mockumentary style, Caitlyn? So like, it's not so much the
mockumentary. Like I like the meta Ness of it.
The mockumentary worked because they were able to, like, have
the in. I don't know what the word is
called. It's like not intuition, but
like like they are able to like understand what they're feeling
and like tell the audience how they're feeling.
They it's a so they let the characters give their own
exposition about how they are terribly feeling.
Like they they just tell you flat out this is how I feel,
which I mean it's a kid show. Like also apparently I need
that, right? Some people find that helpful.
But yeah, it it was it was cute. And it also established it was
different from the movies. 'Cause it's true.
Yeah, like it was a very good clear this is not a movie, this
is ATV show. And yeah, like it's following
the kids who go to that school. So I think I think it worked
really well in the show. And it made it different from
Glee, cause Glee was not a mockumentary.
It was very clearly trying to be both that movie and Glee at the
beginning. Yeah, I mean, but Glee did have
like the voiceovers. Yeah, Glee had voiceovers, which
was annoying as fuck, but like, they didn't have, like, Rachel.
Baker hates voiceovers. As if you didn't know that, like
she. I hate voiceovers.
OK, but like, OK, the voiceovers and Glee served a purpose.
The voiceovers and Warrior none did not.
They were like, crap I didn't need to hear about, like how Ava
felt about stuff. I'm like, I don't need to know
this. Like, this is not helping the
plot. This is dumb.
Like get out of here. Like if you're gonna do it like
like Glee would use it as a transition and it worked a lot
better. But yeah, you're right.
That was kind of like their moment of exposition, but they
didn't like, have Rachel Berry in a corner and be like Rachel,
be like, this is how I feel. But what she explained, they all
explain a lot how they feel to each other, So we didn't need
the one-on-one with the character.
It's very obvious how they all feel about stuff.
Yeah, so. That show, that show very
different. They're different shows though,
so. They are different shows.
There is one last thing I wanted to talk that I talk about that I
really liked about the show in general and it's that they
allowed Courtney and Gina to have their natural hair like and
like natural hairstyles agreed which is very big, not like so
Disney and Nickelodeon, like I grew up and this isn't just for
these networks like this is just Hollywood in general was so bad
with I don't know the right term to describe it.
So I'm just going to say, yeah, black people's hair.
Yeah, literally. Or black hairstyles.
Yeah, black hairstyles. So basically all you ever saw
was straight curls, stuff like that.
And now we're finally getting to see them explore it, 'cause it
is a big, I've learned this, like, I tried to do some
research on this. So it's a big part of their
culture to have like different hairstyles and explore with.
So Dara talked about how much she loved that they did get to
play around with their hairstyles.
And I think her and Sophia, who plays Gina, they went to, I
don't know if it whoever's like in charge of it in the last
season or like midway through and like talked about all the
things they want to do and they just let them run with it.
So Courtney Dara was like, I'm gonna just try to figure out all
of the cool things I do. So, like, she had a different
hairstyle every single. Episode.
Aw, that's cute. Yeah.
And like, I love the one like where it is like a bunch of hair
ties in her hair and she has like these like clip and like
things like it's it's so Courtney and her like, I love
it. It's beautiful.
So and because Hollywood, like not only did they not know how
to handle black people's hair, they also just like wanted it to
fit in with, you know the whites.
That's really what it is. Yeah.
So like they didn't want viewers to get confused cause apparently
hair is such a weird thing in Hollywood that like you couldn't
change your hair because people might get confused it.
It's really weird. You have to realize though, back
in the day, not to defend anybody, but like back in the
day, like we had soap opera switches happening where like he
would just swap out an actor and be like, no, that's Frederick.
That's he's been here. Long they do that still OK.
It was like there's a Fosters and it was really weird.
It was a lot more common to do that because shows would run
forever and there's like 5 shows, so they would do it
constantly. So yeah, like people are stupid
and they'd be like, whoa, their hair's different.
Is it a different person? Who's this person?
So yeah, I like people are just dumb as fuck, but.
Quick note that it has nothing to do with this.
I'm glad they never did that in Grey's Anatomy.
Continue. Yes.
So yeah, I'm glad that the actors got to like, actually,
like, have their hair and have control over what happens to it.
That's really great. And that should continue.
Like, Courtney and Gia's hair are both gorgeous.
Like, good for them. Yeah, And so something I learned
while researching this, 'cause I noticed their hair.
And I knew before, like, I heard something like that it was a
huge thing and that, like, there's not a lot of hair
stylists that even know how to work with black people's hair.
And like, that's the issue. So Monique Coleman actually, who
plays Taylor in High School Musical, the movies, she said
that they damaged her hair so bad that they had to like she
had to suggest that they add bandanas, like that's why Taylor
wears bandanas, because they messed up the front of her hair
and like that's terrible. That is terrible.
She should sue them. You know, she has always been so
positive towards these movies and they did her so dirty like
she they left her out of the press.
It was like her and Lucas. I believe that they left out
like I'm amazed that they came back to do this this season and
but it was so cool to have see her have a scene with Dara Dara
that that was a really sweet scene.
But I I wanna interview a set hair stylist one day about like
the importance of this and letting the hair not be straight
and curly and play with the styles.
I believe Blackish has a whole episode about like black
hairstyles and stuff and why they're important.
So Hollywood is slowly catching up.
Slowly we're making progress in all the things.
Yes. OK.
But obviously I couldn't stop there.
And season five, OK? Because you know, what if it
continued, All right? This is Caitlyn's Fan Fiction
section. Yes, this is this is what I
would like to happen, apparently.
All right, so the first thing I ever thought of was that
Courtney is trying to make a shrine for the costumes that
she, like, designed throughout her time in the theater before
she leaves for college. And she states the reason is
because it's just as as important as the HSM movies.
And I know in this show, like they don't have a High School
Musical like showcase, but I think after the first season,
Miss Jen talks about like making one.
So they have one now, 'cause they do in the actual school.
So he's like, yeah, we're just going to put it right next to
that one, 'cause it's just as important.
It's historic. So that's what I think is going
on with her. OK.
Big Red comes back because Ricky needs him to help him get, stay
in college, something like that. So Big Red is taking his job of
getting Ricky to get better grades very seriously, and he
comes up with a bunch of games to help him study.
So we just see them playing like Jeopardy and like all these
different types of games. Madeline finally gets to be cute
together and there's no relationship drama because I
don't want it. There's no relationship drama
because they deserve more in the show.
And I think their drama can come from Maddox and Jet's home life
because even in the four season, Jet makes a comment like when
Maddox says this is a dictatorship, not a democracy,
Jet says oh, so just like at home.
And it's a throwaway line and we don't hear anything else, but
there's stuff going on at home which a lot of fan fiction's
read into, so I'm going to go with that.
Yes, that's where the drama can come in.
But so because of the drama at home, Mad Maddox spends more
time at Ashland's, which gives us more acuteness and support of
Ashland. Jet is also having a hard time
at home and he is kind of dating Courtney because, you know, like
they're really forcing them together.
But she is more focused on making sure she is ready for
college because, like, she is focused on her future.
So he doesn't have the same support that he does with
Ashlynn. And I don't see Jetmi lasting if
they even become a thing. Sorry, people like they're just
not like they just don't. I don't.
I don't see them that. So all right, now here's where
we get into the Gina shit. So Gina's getting ready to work
on the movie, but they're still missing their Romeo because Matt
pulled out before he was even announced.
OK, wait a minute. Hold on.
I'm sorry. Can we go back to one thing
about Gina that I thought was really weird?
That has to do with this. So when she's doing the
acceptance speech, she says something along the lines of,
I've never read Romeo and Juliet.
I'm looking forward to reading this for the first time.
What high school student in America doesn't know the premise
of Romeo and Juliet? Like how there's so many things
based off of it. It's like a like even if you've
never read Shakespeare or you didn't weren't forced to read
it, which like in America most high school English like they
require you to read it at some point.
I think we read it in 9th grade. Right, it's required reading in
America, but even if it wasn't required for some reason at East
High, it's a pop culture reference thing.
Like, how does she not know? Like.
I'm wondering like she just doesn't know like the details of
it but like she. Knows it sounded like she had no
idea what this was about. She's like, I'm looking forward
to like reading this and and to know more about what this is
about. Like, I don't think she knew
what the play was about. And I'm like how you're in
America. Like, what do you mean?
I mean, there's even an animated movie called Gnomeo and Juliet.
No, There's like, there are legitimate.
There's so many movies, there's so many things.
It's a pop culture reference. Like it's in songs.
Taylor Swift has a song about it, like, how do you not know?
Like, at least the reference, you know.
So like, that was weird. Whoever wrote that line, you're
in America. You're in America like they it's
required reading for high school.
Does she not read like she's been to many high schools?
Like, come on now, That was ridiculous.
Anyway, yeah, she's been to many high schools.
Maybe she just kept missing that, 'cause I did.
I missed like a whole chunk of shit because I was moving around
so much and I was like, I don't, I don't know what this is so
like. Yeah, it's possible.
But it's also a pop culture reference.
So like, even if you didn't read it, that's what I'm saying.
Even if you didn't read it in America, it's all around.
It's like not knowing what Christianity is.
If you've never been to a church, it's everywhere.
How do you not know what this is?
I thought that was wild and crazy.
Anyway, continue. I had.
To. That's fine.
I understand also, yeah. And then Mack leaving without
telling anybody. Like if I were the director, I
would be pissed about this. Like you lost the Romeo.
I didn't tell anybody, like, but he also announced him.
He announces that they're rebooting his show and he's
like, but I have to talk to Disney Brothers first.
It's like, I don't know. That was ridiculous.
Bam. Sorry.
OK, so now this again. We're in season five in my
world, in my brain. OK, so Gino starts talking to
Danny more because Danny has stayed to learn more from Miss
Jen 'cause Miss Jen turns down a Broadway role.
That was insane. That was stupid.
Anyway, I agree So And Danny confides in her that she is
worried she isn't a good actress since she got fired from the
movie and Gina offers to help her with her scene work.
And no, I'm not putting them together.
Guys, don't worry. Ideally, Maddox should make an
offhand joke about how Romeo and Juliet should be queer, and
Quinn's eyes just go wide immediately and runs with it
and, like, she, like, completely takes it as her idea because
that's what she would do. So Quinn approaches Gina and
tells her that the movie is now going to be a queer adaptation,
and it catches Gina off guard at first, but then Gina's like, OK,
cool, let's do it. And she suggests that they
should get Danny to play Romeo. Then don't ask me why I I have
figured. There's no way that director is
gonna be like, yeah, the girl that can't act.
Hold on, I'm getting there. So Quinn is like, the girl who
sucked the air out of High School Musical Four and got
fired within a day. Yeah, no.
But Gina's like, come on, She's gotten so much better.
Just audition her. Quinn reluctantly agrees because
she agrees to everything that Gina says.
Because I wrote. Because let's be real.
I think Gina's the only one that has a hold over Quinn.
So like that happens and then like they they do it because
like I couldn't put Maddox or Ashlyn.
Maddox wouldn't want to do it. Ashlyn like it's just no.
OK. So it had to be.
I was trying to figure out also it's more diversity in the film
and we needed that. So that's why.
So I did not forget about the spring musical.
OK. This time they are doing drum
roll the prom and thank you to the fan fiction that put that in
my head, but I I think it would actually be a great idea if they
did that. It was either this one or
lemonade mouth cause a sailor who plays Maddox's sister
Maddox. Her sister Piper wrote that like
finally I can talk about Madeleine.
You have no idea. Piper was also in a Disney show
called I Didn't Do It and I believe she's now queer or like
gay. Whatever.
But I believe that is what the case is now and I love it.
And she's hilarious on TikTok so go look her up because she has
some stories about the old Disney days.
It's it's just great. So someone said that they should
have done Lemonade mouth. And I think, yeah Sailor, but
Maddox should have played Hailey Kiyoko's character, yes?
Or just have Hailey Kiogo. That's awesome.
Just have Hailey Kiogo just blame her.
Do. This.
Hydrate. But I chose the prom because I
wanted more queerness and I'm sick of Ricky always getting the
lead. I'm just sick of Ricky.
So here's my cast list, 'cause I literally, I looked up the cast
list. I looked up like the vocal
parts, the the yeah. So Ashlynn is obviously gonna be
Emma Nolan. So the main lead Maddox is gonna
be Alyssa Green. Because I'm going with what they
did in the fan fiction as well. Everyone has to audition.
And you know what? Maddox is now in the show.
Carlos is Barry, Seb is Sheldon. Courtney is Dee Dee Allen 'cause
she would kill That Jet is Mr. Hawkins, Ricky is Trent, Gina is
Misses Green, Danny is Angie. I don't even like know who some
of these people are like I remember Big Red is Kevin, which
is one of the students. Antoine, because he transfers in
for Big Red because that's something they would do, is Nick
Steph. Steph is the dancer who was like
more featured in the first two seasons and then wasn't in it
again. But I really like her.
So she's Kaylee, and then Emmy is Shelby.
And then I realized I should probably really write this
because this I I've got. I got a lot mapped out in my
head at this point. I can see that.
So what do you think? Would you watch it?
Would I watch, what, Season five?
Yeah, yeah, 'cause then we can keep talking about it.
I just want more Madeline cute moments.
OK, so last section before we wrap up.
I'm getting to this quick as possible, everybody.
Caitlin's random and probably useless trivia that did not fit
anywhere else. So these are random things that
I figured out so all or found out online.
So the person who trained the hamster, you know Natalie
Bagley's hamster in season one had only trained bears
previously? Weird Hamsters are not bears, in
case you didn't know that. So that he was very
overqualified for this job, Wondering The song that Ashlyn
'cause it's Ashlyn's song Sings with Nene was the first song
ever shot or recorded, and I believe it was three months
before they even got a script and started filming.
Damn. Now Ghost Lights are seen
throughout the show. Dior and I have talked about
them briefly before, not on here, but since it was done, an
episode of Only Murders in the building.
But I'm just going to go over it quickly for listeners because
it's it's something that if you're not in that world, you
have no idea what it is. To describe what it is too like,
maybe people didn't. Know it is when you get a ghost
light. So it is a single light that is
placed centre stage that is on whenever the theatre would
normally be dark. So it's like literally a single
light on a stand. Yeah.
So there's a couple of scenes with like Miss Jen standing next
to just so it looks like a random lamp post.
That's sure. And it's in when Nene is
auditioning. So it's like in the first
episode and like she's in like where the.
I think there's chandeliers and everything, but there's a ghost
light on the stage. I think whenever they're in that
stage, like they have the ghost light but it.
So this ghost light helps with safety, allowing you to find the
light console without falling into the orchestra pit, 'cause
if you're fancy and you're they're in a school.
But I mean like they they mostly do it in the auditorium, cause
somehow they never have their theater but you could fall into
orchestra pit and you hurt yourself.
We didn't have one at school but the other East High did had
ours. They had a no East Central
Ducks. E the the rival school that we
have, they did have an orchestra pit, so good for them, not
bitter or so. And it also helps you from doing
any other harm to yourself. And there are a lot of
superstitions that come with the ghost light, that there's a lot
of superstitions in theatre in general, but the most common one
is that every theatre has a ghost light, and the light
allows them to see and perform on stage when everyone else is
gone. It the ghosts.
The ghosts that like every. OK, yeah, every theatre has a
ghost. And yeah, they get to perform
when everybody's gone and you're supposed to keep the theater
empty one night a week for them. Which may be the reason that
theaters are typically dark on Mondays.
Like, there's no performances on Mondays.
Yeah. OK so now on to this is where
the Emmy like Emmy and I like are very similar.
The actual drama teacher at East High is Mr. Kevin McClellan, not
Miss Jen. However, he does have a wife
named Jen. So yeah, and East High is
currently doing Les Mis for their fall show.
And of course, me being me, I looked at their cast list.
If you go all the way down to the bottom of the list, you will
see no one is cast as the wedding guest.
Instead it reads I guess I did need a dance audition after all.
We will do that later. And I just feel like this is
something that Miss Jen would actually do and I find it very
funny. Also, Kate Renders, Have you
ever said her last name? She did go see a production at
East High that she went and saw when they did Beauty and the
Beast. So I want to know I I didn't
figure out who came first the their Beauty and the Beast, or I
think theirs did. So also the next thing on my
list is that Ashlyn has a scissors bucket and I apparently
felt the need to write this down during one of my rewatches
'cause I thought it was. And then the next fact rest in
peace to the fact that got corrupted when I locked my notes
because I had them all locked so Theora wouldn't see my phone
backs and it's just gone it it only says bracket, bracket 19,
dash, dash, dash dash dash dash dash like 100 times.
So next Dara and Kylie. So Courtney and Danny are in the
new Descendants movie, Descendants, The Rise of Red.
This will be their second project they work on that is
based off Kenny Ortega movies but still is not directed by him
'cause he's not doing the fourth film.
Val played by Meg Donnelly, so Val from season three is from
another Disney movie series called Zombies.
She guest starred in season three and EJ played by Matt
Cornett guest guest starred in Zombies 3.
Zombies 3 is also the first Disney project to feature a non
binary character. This was cast by Amber and
Danielle who was who also cast Andy Mack who Sophia Wiley who
plays Gina's in and we interviewed them previously.
If anyone is interested they were a delight.
They are fun. People, they know many things.
They know a lot. Yes, we love them.
I want to talk to them again one day.
There are three or four books as well, including one that is Miss
Jen's script for the first High School Musical show with
audition notes and director notes.
So like the blocking and everything is really cool.
I didn't actually read it, but I saw photos of it in the last
episode. Ricky tells Mac that he wishes
there were 38 more episodes of Mark and Spark, which is the
same number of episodes in The High School Musical, The
Musical, the series series Meta. Yes, I mean, 'cause that's
that's their charm. OK, I also watched all three
movies to prepare for this episode, in case there is things
to say and I just I have. I've had a couple of things.
So rewatching the movies made me realize I I fully remember my
inner monologues, 'cause my brain's always running.
So I remember what I was thinking while watching it for
the first time. And it was mostly just
mishearing what the words were and also trying to figure out
what they mean, 'cause I sometimes use bigger words, so
like I was in 4th grade. So I had no idea what they
meant. And I thought they were
referring to Chad when the boss in High School Musical two says
henceforth, because his name is Chad Danforth.
That's the connection I made. But I also fell asleep during
High School Musical 2 the first time I watched it.
So there's that. That's it's also people's
favorite movie and I don't like High School Musical 2.
High School Musical 3 is my favorite, which is also probably
part of the reason why The Four Seasons my favorite since
they're that's the music they're doing and stuff.
We also added in the deleted scene or at least one scene in
High School Musical 2 on Disney. Plus it now includes the fever
dream that is Huma, Huma Nuka Nuka, APA Makikiki Malini Hu.
Do you know that song? Because it's if you had the
Disney Sing It Wii game, it was on there.
So that's how I learned that song.
But it is such a crazy scene and like Shar Pei sings like a whale
in it or something. It's weird, but it's really
weird. It's really funny.
So go watch that. And that brings us end to the
end of High School Musical The Musical, the series.
And last thing about the about the show before we like end it
for real. I do like the very last scene,
which is that ties everything together, which is the main cast
and Miss Jen singing the wicked song for good, which it's the
perfect song about like friendships, and it allows Jen
to finally sing like the Klinda part for us, the audience.
So I do like that. That is their ending.
Scene which, in case the audience does not know, Miss
Jen. In real life, Kate renders
Render Whatever Sorry Kate played Glenda on Broadway.
Yeah, we did mention that in the first episode.
Briefly, but like you already knew, so we didn't actually go
into it, but I just wanted to make sure that was established
just in case people didn't know so.
Yeah, I like that. That's the ending scene.
I mean, it's also an app that they go to Denny's, like in the
actual show's ending scene, because apparently that's like,
I mean, we went to Applebee's instead of Denny's, but like,
yeah. I mean, you go out somewhere
that's open and get food. Like, yeah, but I love the song.
I thought the song was fitting. Yeah, I don't want it to end
'cause now it's over over. Sorry, Caitlin, it's.
So hard there's no more. Well, I'm still leave a comment
on who we should interview 'cause I'm gonna try.
We'll see if anybody's willing. Yes, we are back in that stage
where we can interview people. That's OK, Caitlin, that's a
fan. Fiction is for yes, yes.
So before we sign off for real, we and end our discussion on
High School Musical, the musical series.
We need to rate this, well, I guess rate this season because
we've been rating all the seasons and then rate the show
overall on the Lesbian Jesus hydration scale.
So this is our scoring system that we developed on the Big Big
Energy Podcast using gay science.
So it's a very accurate method for determining how valuable a
piece of queer media is. And we hydrate like Caitlyn is
doing right now. Because water like life and
sorry, water like queerness is essential for life.
So Caitlyn, how much would you hydrate for lesbian Jesus for
season 4? Eight.
I mean Madeline gets a 10 but. Yes.
Damn. No, I think I'm gonna give it a
six. Like, five of the points are
just for Ashlyn and Maddox, but the shit they did with Seb, Big
Red and Carlos was fucking. I know, like part of the
meeting. Points for that.
That was, yeah. That's why a.
Crime against Lesbian Jesus. That's why I had trouble like I
did 8 'cause just Madeline Madeline, will and.
That's fair. Yeah.
Yeah, big feels. But like thinking more about it,
Like I really wish they gave them something better that
season, go out better than that. Yeah, we've ranted enough about
it, but like that that whole thing loses points.
But the Ashland Maddox stuff was really great on its own.
That was great and very well handled.
And I like how they did all that.
Might as well the cheating stuff that's embedded in there.
But 10 out of 10, but like they were 10 out of 10, they were
good. But yeah, overall and then OK,
so then how much would you hydrate for the entire show?
Tim, it do or what do you? Mean.
Damn it, We always do this. Why is this always a surprise?
Do it every time, I thought. We were only going season by
season. No, we are OK.
Now you rate the whole thing. Well, I know I can't give it too
low, 'cause I really. OK, no.
All right, I'm gonna give No 7 1/2.
That's fair, fair, fair. I think I would give it a six.
I think that's what I gave it initially when we did our like.
The first season, the 1st. Thing.
I think that's what I gave it to.
Yeah, just because, like, I think there's a lot of good
stuff. I think it's valuable.
It's appropriate. No audience.
We gave the first season A2. I don't know.
Not the first season. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The the big. That's what I was the big gay
energy one. Right, exactly.
So I think I stick with that. Even having gone through all of
this discussion just 'cause I think there's valuable elements
to it. There's some problematic shit
with the queerness that we just talked about.
But like, overall, it's a good thing to see queer media, a lot
of it, being more positive than negative for a younger audience,
because empathy is important. And so I think in the lexicon of
queer media, it's worth talking about and worth watching,
because queer media is important for all ages and everybody, and
it was way less toxic than Glee when it came to the queer stuff.
So there's that. That's good.
Yeah, I wanna. I see.
I love this show just because it's like fun and I love the
music and stuff, but because of like the stuff like, I mean,
we've talked about it already, but like that stuff is just, I
wanna, I can't give it higher than a 7 1/2.
I think that's fair. 7 1/2 is really good, especially Caitlin.
Who's a Oh yeah, I have not. I don't think I've given
anything. A10 I think I gave a heart
stopper episode A10 because, like, I felt like I had to at
that point. Because I mean, like, there's
nothing wrong with it. But yeah, ratings is hard for
me. We've established this anyway.
If you made it this far in the episode, we want to know.
I'm going to give you a secret word that we want to challenge
you to use in a comment or podcast review.
It's really, it's funnier if it's a podcast review without
looking at the spelling of this word.
OK, so today's secret word is apagitura.
I believe that's it. I have it phonetically spelled,
but like, it's still weird to apagitura and it means a music
note played as an embellishment on the main beat.
Oh yeah. That's an Italian word.
My dog is. Digging.
Brooklyn, shut up. I'm sorry, OK?
Anyway, she's just gonna be digging the whole time.
It's fine. We're here.
All right. So thank you for joining us on
the journey that was High School Musical the Musical the series.
We hope you enjoyed this wild ride.
We'll be moving on to more queer media after this.
And until next time, keep hydrating for lesbian Jesus.
And get it up all over the place.
Bye, bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. If you like this episode, check
out all our other episodes on whatever you're using to listen
right now. If you're listening on Apple,
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Find us on all the social medias at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail
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hydrate for Lesbian Jesus.