Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
Oh, this just in breaking news. Three lesbians are taking
Vancouver in less than one week and they are preparing hard
roads are shutting down businesses are closing early.
They know the chaos is about to break loose, all in Vancouver,
where nothing usually happens. We get something like that movie
where you can do whatever you want for a day.
Oh, Oh my God. What is that?
No, I don't know the the courage.
I mean, I was going to say Poltergeist it.
I know that's not the movies. No, that's the one that
terrified me when I was little these movies and was just
guessing. So I'm pretty sure it's the Frog
never seen it, but I'm pretty sure it's a purge is very soon.
Any, they're only seeing the trailer to see I love when I
edit this and I have to look at through like 5 minutes of
nothing before. Okay, so that was the warm-up.
Well, that was gay news so in Big gay energy news part 3 of
coming out right? Yeah yeah time for coming out
part 3. Time to wrap this coming out
business. I'm gonna actually have to put
one of our breaking news things in because that's the smile.
That's fine. May not be the truck nuts.
Yeah. Not that.
It's gonna be us taking. Well, it's breaking news.
Thank you for watching over by the time you hear this?
Yeah. So are News is not so breaking,
it's breaking for now. You just don't get to hear it.
I'm gonna put disclaimer. That I got the covid shot
yesterday and I'm very out of it.
Welcome back to vacay energy. We are going to be talking about
coming out and queer media for the third episode.
We are going to start with one day at a time and Elena coming
out to her whole family and how they take it.
And would any of you like to give your thoughts first?
Because apparently, I can't speak.
First of all, I love this show and it's a crime that it was
canceled. But what I love about this, well
this I think there are multiple scenes but the main scene with
Elena coming out to her mother, is it basically contrast.
It literally everything we talked about in part two where
they come from a Christian family.
I can't remember the denomination, I think it's
Catholic because they talk about the pope a lot, but the
expectation that you know, the initial fear from Atlanta when
she's like telling her mom is kind of there and you kind of
know why it's there but To her mother's credit.
She's super super supportive. And and in that moment, even
though it's kind of like a shock to the mom, she like does give
her daughter the space to just talk and say what she needs to
say. And I thought that was really
special because that's not always the case.
Usually like in that moment it then becomes about the person
that's hearing the information and they blow up freak out
because there's a really good point in one of the scenes later
with the mom or she's like I'm not taking this.
Well, I should be taking so why am I not taking this well and
like the friend is basically like well like your daughter has
been processing this for like a long time and came to this place
where she can say it out loud and you like just heard this for
the first time it's okay to process this because like You
know, we often don't think about that perspective, like the other
person having to process this for the, for the first time.
Like it's a journey. Like it's like, it's a journey
for you to go through it. Is it kind of a journey for them
too. And so I liked that little
insight because I think that's important, especially for
parents or like family members, who are who have this, you know,
kind of like a reaction to this. They're like, wow, I want to be
supportive but like I'm having all these feelings that I have
to like, how do I navigate this that often is not discussed.
Like, it's just like these It would be good in the moment, but
like it's one thing to hear that to next thing to another thing
to be in the situation and like, do it when you're not prepared
for it. I have one thing to say about
that, scene is a whatever you want.
This is your segment but I love how she's like.
Well when did you find out? She's like like two days ago
she's like and you're not leaving a pride parade already.
Yeah exactly. Like it's true.
You know you everybody. It's a process for everybody.
But the one I the one seed I love the most is like, that's
the moms Journey worth versus the grab whele.
I have a whole thing about that. Yeah, literally monologues out
loud and that is her process and it's like three sentences and
she's like, okay, I'm fine. I had a written here.
Like I was going to read it. It's so good.
So it didn't read it. Yeah, yeah.
In a read it because I had this will so fucking funny because I
love Rita Moreno. Uh-huh.
We've already went over this. I love her so much.
And just the way she just the whole character is just amazing,
so good and I love how everyone is supportive to Alana like
Alana has no idea any of these thoughts are going on and I feel
like that's kind of good in a way because she needs the
support right now but It allows the everyone around her to also
process by just be like, okay, we're going to support you.
But now I have to go and process it myself. but, What is her name
in the show? Abuela way is my brain.
Whatever. Anyway, she her monologue is
look. I know you are cool with this,
but you have to understand, I'm a religious woman and I'm sorry,
I'm sorry that I have a problem with Elena being gay.
It goes against God. Although God did make us in His
image and God does not make space make mistakes clearly.
And when it comes to the gays, the pope did say, who am I to
judge? And the pope represents God.
So what am I going to go against the pope and God?
Who the hell do? I think I am.
Okay, okay, I'm good. Yeah then and then familiar
feels like did you really just work that out in 10 seconds?
And this is my favorite. See?
Because she is my granddaughter and I love her no matter what.
So tell me when is the parade Lydia?
Lydia. Yes, Oh, I love her.
She was the best part of that show to me or the funniest part.
She's definitely real. I love that.
Her brother is always really supportive of her even though
they have the typical sibling, like we fight.
But like we're writer die thing. Derek family?
Yeah. Go ahead because like that
easily could be like like that was a concern for me to I was I
have a brother. I was like a crap, is he gonna
turn on me? Cuz like men and gay stuff like
masculinity and all that stuff but like, no, my brother was
just like him. He's like, no, yeah I got you.
So he's like the first one to find out to like that.
She didn't even like she was questioning and it's cool.
I feel like we need an episode on the show because I love this
show so much. It's a great show but I thought
we do have to talk about Elena's father, unfortunately.
Yes, yeah. So I hate this part so much that
he was another one. That acted fine to her face and
then completely changed. Like that's the part.
That's not okay. He stood his daughter up on one
of the biggest nights or days of her life of her quinceanera.
Like you're going, you're showing that like the entire
family that you're an asshole, first of all.
Hmm. I mean, I don't think anyone
else knew at that point, but it doesn't matter, but the way that
everybody else, like got up and just started dancing with her
heart, like she like, the, the support is just everything, the
support was there even before the dance at the key to say.
Because she came in a suit. So like they were already like
looks like on the suit thing was that fuzz?
Like they were already like, hey, like we're going to support
because the family could have easily.
Easily been like okay the key say is for like appearances to
it's a it's a coming out into society kind of moment and so
they could have easily said, hey look, we're cool with the gay
stuff, the family's going to be there.
You got to wear a dress and like, be a young woman kind of
thing but they did it there. Like, you go as you this is your
night, it's about you. And then, when the dad stands
her up, like her Penelope is like Fuck that.
I'm going to be your parrot, like and do what a good parent
should do. And like, then the brother and
the grandma. It's very, very sweet, but like
they supported her even before that point, which is huge.
And just, it goes to feel like this deficit was like, oh well,
there's family but also like the suit seen like because the
grandmother kept remaking the dress and that I know this is
not a One Day at a Time episode. But there's like just the whole
journey helped me to come out like that's why I just I love
this show so much. That's the grandma kept making
the dress and each time Alana wasn't too happy with it but she
didn't know why. And then Lydia just was like,
okay I got it and came back with the suit and it was just the
sweetest thing and it's I freaking hate dresses.
I wear them, but I fucking hate them.
I'm the only one that doesn't hate the dresses.
Oh my God. I'll wear them for like shows
and stuff, but that's about it. I like the freedom.
I don't know how to sit like a lady and I hate being told that.
So I refuse to wear it or I have to wear shorts under it.
I think, do you have anything else on this show?
It's an amazing show. It's a comfort show.
And now, whenever you watch it, that's all.
I have. You guys understand before,
seasoned fully when it went to the other network, but Network
to go on, I can't remember, I watched it.
Go watch it, watch it. We have so much to watch.
Well, yeah. That's the beauty of this show.
We will just keep going with all the gay stuff.
Yeah, that's a gem of a show if you never seen it, go watch it.
It's amazing. All right.
I really could talk about that whole show and stuff and
probably will one day be your point.
Yeah. So on to our last part that is
still like seven scenes long, we're going to be talking about
forced coming out. It's always sucks.
And I've never seen this part. I've never, I've seen the show,
but I haven't seen this episode or anything of Dawson's Creek.
When Jack, Writes a poem and his teacher forces him to read it
out loud. And this poor kid is like dying
on the inside me. Like, please don't make me read
it, like please, like you said it was just going to be for you.
And even when he is reading it out loud and you can, he's
crying. The teacher has like such a
stone face and like he's such an asshole.
Like you can tell like there's this is something big for him,
but you should have had stopped him like, after the first
sentence. I was just like, you know what,
I'm sorry, you can sit down but then he finish it and runs out
of the room and won't even let another person go.
Make sure he's okay. And I just really don't like the
teacher. Yes, I had a question about
this. That whole thing, like, is this
a generational thing? Because the teachers acting like
an authoritarian with children and I feel like that's like, a
generational thing. We're like, kids are not people,
like I'm the oldest person in this room.
Therefore, you have to respect me and just do exactly what I
say, no matter what. And that's the energy.
This man is giving off, even though like Jack like you said,
Is repeatedly. Pleading like, please don't
please don't make me do this. But he's like, no, I'm the
teacher. And I said, so now you have to
obey me. Like, it seems like that
generational like children obey, what adults say, kind of shit.
And that's why he doubles down on this, and then even when he's
clearly wrong, and Jack runs away and then Pacey tries to run
after him, he's like, no, sit down like Now I was right.
Like if he can't handle me being right, then let him run away
kind of energy. It's just that bullshit helps
literally, no one and just traumatize has literally just
traumatized everybody in that room because you're being
authoritarian, fascist asshole like two children.
It's not a good look. No, I really hated the saying, I
hated watching the same day that way because of the reasons
you're supposed to hate this scene.
But yes, the trauma. I can't watch it.
Again, as I don't. The feelings that it evokes or
not. It's like the watch.
No. And that may sound extreme, but
it's like it's a lot like It's the all the fears, it's like all
the fears that you have and the nightmares that you have before
coming out. And it's just in this little,
this little scene on the show that I watch for, man.
This came out when I was How old when did the show coming?
I think I was in high school. I was a middle school and a
middle school, high school, probably time because, like, you
know, I I have exactly scream TV drama class, and we had to watch
it for it. That's how I know the show.
This was a huge show when it was happening was, and I had a lot
of feelings about this show, but that scene.
Hmm. I always like to Jack and his
sister and I hate that this is how he had.
He's just a character but still whatever.
Well, this also hate me. Listen, Dawson was the most
annoying character. Yeah, I hate him too.
Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, I think that why
what you're all saying about how like, it's hard to watch it and
it makes you super uncomfortable is the point.
And, and when this came out, like there were like gay
representation was like nothing. So the fact that they even did
this on a huge show was groundbreaking at the time.
And so I think it had to be this way because So the attitude
towards like, queer people in media was the teacher in the
room. In this scene was just like
whatever. I don't really care about you.
And so so watch that like you can see like why this is a big
deal in Jack's journey and like the repercussions of just like
being yourself. Like was huge for the time.
Like at the time like all like the queer stuff was like either
tragic or coded as a villain. So Jack is kind of like the
tragic one at this point but it pans out at the end but I will
say his poem the poem itself taking away the contact like
it's so hauntingly beautiful his poem they wrote like it's so
like raw and just like A beautiful depiction of like
questioning and being like, huh, kind of thing, it's beautiful
poem just the fact that he had to get on this stage in front of
people against his will and say it out.
Loud is super fucked up but the poem is really beautiful.
You just said, 1998 1998. Yeah, this was a big deal at the
time, like it was a huge deal. We're talking about a lot of
that time period. It was a bill because that's
when people started, really getting like character started
coming out on TV. This is kind of the start of all
his Buffy was going on at the same time and you had those and
then willing Grace. Yeah, well and Grace you had all
these like parallel gay story lines that were popping up and
it was becoming more of a thing, not that it was always done.
Well, There's also actual reasons for why this was the
time period and it had to do with like the rules of what
could be on television. At the time, they came out of
Cold War bullshit that we will have an entire episode about at
some point but there's a reason why I liked it all kind of
happened around the same time. It's because, like, what could
be on TV was getting less crazy conservative and more like,
normal to what was in society and that's why they were allowed
to have it on TV in the first place.
Like, before that, you weren't actually allowed to have This on
TV, we're going to be talking about a scene that's like,
credited as like changing the landscape.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
It's this all happened after that scene, that seems that
possible, that's not our only seen for Dawson's Creek though,
unfortunately. Yeah, that that poor kid goes
through it. Of course you do.
And I wanted to talk on that, bring that seen up as well, just
because Of the breakdown of him being like, he doesn't want to
be like that. Like, he hates him self so much
like he wants to be like the son.
His father wants him to be. Yeah.
What's the scene? I don't fully.
Okay, it's a I just know that the father I don't remember,
what is it the or basically. So the scene Kaitlyn's referred
to is one with the jack, his dad and his sister and basically
this is like Jack, forcing the conversation of like, I'm gay.
We need. I'm trying to come out to you
and you need to hear it because I've never really seen the
entire show. So, I guess before that the dad
just like, Like ignores him anytime he tries to say, it out
loud and is like, we're having this conversation because once
you say it, it's real and Jack is basically at his breaking
point and he's like, no, no, no. We need to have this
conversation and so it's they're saying, he's saying it to like,
his dad, his sister. And so the scene is like their
reactions and his reaction post saying it out loud.
Kind of thing. Thank you.
You're welcome. This was dad's toxic
masculinity. That's what it is, patriarchy.
This patriarchy nonsense. That's dr.
Dated into our society. That's what this is so far.
I like in these episodes. It's been dads and grandmothers
religious grandmother's exactly what Lydia Nation exactly.
This is a doctored, Asian know what that means, basically.
It's when you're it's when people in Grain ideology into
you at a young age and it influences your behavior later.
So by like, removing certain things from history books, and
then teaching kids like an indoctrinates them to believe a
certain way, like, oh, these were the good guys in history or
like that never happened or Religion, does that to where
you're indoctrinated to believe. Like this is what good is, this
is what bad is? This is how you should behave.
This is what a woman is this is what a man is.
And so then you're indoctrinated to believe that's when someone
challenges your beliefs. You either question or you're
just do double down and label them as evil immoral and like
that's the problem that we're having in society.
Like this is the, these are the conversations that happen in
real life because of that and it yeah that's indoctrinating.
You're imposing a belief system on somebody when they're kind of
like without them knowing it. Thank you for once again,
educating me. So yeah, patriarchy and
bullshit, what men are supposed to be like and how that, you
know, that's what's being challenged with the dad, who's
like, my son can't be gay like because like that's not what men
do and so that's why he's like, I can't hear it and there's a
line that Jack says where he's like, I see how you look at me
and I know that, you know, so like he basically what's crazy
at the scene as he's trying to force his dad to like listen to
him and the dad's trying to run away and go to work.
It's like I'm leaving. I'm leaving cause if I don't
hear it it's not true but Jack's like you already know what I'm
going to say is is true. Look, you know, it, I know by
the way, you look at me by the way, I act around me because
Jack had another brother and that they could compare to and
he's like, I know he was the son, you always wanted.
He was the man of the house and like, got to follow in your
footsteps and I'm different. And I know that, you know, that
like let me tell you, but like again, the dad doesn't want to
hear it because once he admits his son is different, his sons.
Queer like then he's in a position.
Masculine wise words, like you're either, not my son.
And I to get rid of you or like, I have to confront all this
bullshit. And that makes me uncomfortable.
Exactly thing. I'm uncomfortable.
Now, I don't want to be uncomfortable in my own house,
like, because my beliefs are being challenged.
That's what this really is. And that's why it's so stupid.
It's like, we're not looking at each other.
As humans were like looking at. This is like, my beliefs are
being challenged and I am uncomfortable and how dare you
for making me uncomfortable? The victim blaming again and
like the poor kid is like, you're my dad.
You're supposed to like listen to me and like love me.
And put all that aside and like just listen and the dad can't
even give him that. And what's awesome in the scene
to is that the sister at first is just like quiet and like
standing there because like, patriarchy the two guys are
going at it. But when she's put on The Hot
Spot, she ultimately supports her brother.
She goes in like hugs him. Which is showing that like,
yeah, I love you. No matter what kind of thing.
Where's the dads? Like, I can't even hear this.
Like, no. So, I just feel bad for him.
That whole family had a lot of problems problems in the show.
I do not know, but Watch that to you, watch all the things.
All right. Anything else in that scene?
I just saw what's next and I got happy.
Yep. Yay.
Yes. Okay, so, next we're talking
about coming out later in life or just like, not as like
teenagers. Basically, yes, normalized.
That it's fine. Yeah, I think it's okay to So
which scenery talking about Kaitlyn leader, talking about
Alex and Supergirl and this is my favorite scene ever.
Because I don't know it. The one I felt was like closest
to all like how I felt through all this and we're taught first
talking about her, trying to tell Cara that she has feelings
for this police officer, right? She plays off ya Tek time.
Maggie's added. Yeah.
Detective Maggie. And the way she's saying it.
She never says like, I'm gay or anything.
She's just like beating around because this is the first time
like she's she's trying to process it out loud.
Basically through this conversation because my Caitlin
It's like you have no idea what you're going to actually say.
Let me give you a break. so basically, she is trying to get
Cara to figure it out on her own, as she's trying to figure
it out. So she's just like, so I have
these feelings, I had Cars part of like, what car is says, is
kind of like stupid in this season like I mean I guess she's
growing up in like she never knew any of this was like a
possibility so she's trying to wrap her head around it but I
feel like she could have gotten there quicker.
Honestly, this is one of the best coming out scenes of all
time. It's just so real because it's
true like what was it? I feel like we were when we talk
about lunch blessings and Vengeance.
There's that line where it's just like prep really, like
knowing something is not the same thing as being prepared for
it to happen. So like obviously in the scene
like Alex is like Ready to like talk to his her sister about it
but like the words don't come out like so it's just like this
ramble around beating around the bush.
Like you've just said and two cars credit like she sits down
and tries to ask questions to understand what Alex is really
saying and help her like, work through this anxiety.
That's like written all over Alex.
And the part that I love is when Alex is like processing this
with car like probing, Her. She's like, you know what?
He's trying to say like, is this from Allah and Alex starts going
through childhood memories and she's just like, holy shit.
That was a gay thing I did as a kid.
Like that's so real because when you're trying to process it,
you're wait a minute. Wait a minute.
I've been Galas whole time. Like all the signs have been
there, I just didn't know that. That's what I was doing like and
she acknowledges the fact that like I didn't even know this was
a memory but then when I was really thinking about is like,
holy shit. I had all these baby games
memories and I just Shove them down and it's like Alex was
scared and that's why she did it and toll-like.
Even only shove that shit down so much.
And then it just kind of comes right back up and you have to
eventually process it, which is what's happening in this moment
with Cara, like the person she loves the most in the world her
sister and so it just it's really great because supportive
sister and then Alex processing this in such a link real way.
This scene is so good, it's so so good.
And here you are. Your audio is gone.
So much of Alex's life up to that point.
Was centered around Cara and taking care of car and making
sure she was okay, making sure nobody found out car secret.
So her whole life she's been focused on Cara and like the
family. And other people, basically that
she didn't have any time to have this self realization because
Alex never sat with herself for very long, totally to Rihanna's.
So it makes sense that she would have this delayed coming out,
Out. Yeah, I just into Alex's, most
of her story lines. I just related to so much like
my the family member, who was like my sister growing up.
It was always about her and like talking about her and boys and
all of that. And so it was never like me
talking about things. We were always so focused on her
so like I was like yeah that makes sense because like it was
always worrying about her and her life not really caring about
about how I felt. Don't fit.
Yeah. Just that.
Remembering everything. I love that.
And it was just like she's like ah shit.
This is too much. Alright, I'm done talking by, I
know. Yeah, she's hemorrhaging, she
doesn't. Yeah, I love that.
I like this whole art go because she doesn't really know what's
going on in some senses. So she doesn't know how to
verbalize it and then that confuses car I was not used to.
Having a conversation like that with Alex.
Yeah, and not used to Alex freaking out.
So that really gives you a lot of insight into their
relationship and how the roles are kind of being reversed a
bit. And now, neither of them know
how to deal with that at that moment in time.
So and car is having to learn trying to learn, like, okay, not
everything is about me and my secret.
So like in the next scene, Alex comes in after work I guess and
cars, like I'm fine like you didn't have to check on me and
she's like that's not why I'm here.
Like she was here for herself. A car is like, oh she must be
checking on me because that's always what happened.
And then she's like, all right. I like she makes her sister sit
down, and they finally talked about her and the way that Alex
opens up and she was just like at the end when car is like, so
tell me about her and she just gets so happy if she's like
she's like she's smart and she I don't remember what she actually
said, and she's like and she's so beautiful.
God, she's beautiful. The way at the end when there's
so many things about the scene, but the way Alex like,
breathlessly is describing Maggie is just so genuine
because it's like that's how she feels on the inside and it's
just a milestone to be so comfortable to be that honest
about your crush with like somebody and so, and it's also
like demonstrating by the way that line is really delivered.
Like she's so beautiful, it's just breathless.
It's like demonstrating like that way.
That's been weighing on her about this Crush, she's like
gone. Like and she just like able to
like say it out loud like that. And that breathless way is just
Chef skills to that, that piece to beautifully.
Chyler Leigh portrayed, this whole storyline.
So perfect, so beautiful. It was great.
I loved her. That likes everything.
Yeah, she she's a great actress. I love that Alex.
I love Alex. And the thing I thing, I really
love about this particular doing it in this show in this dynamic
as they set up the comparison. Like you said to Alex and her
secret identity as queer. To Cara and her secret identity
as a superhero because we are nauseatingly used to this
superhero hives, their true self narrative.
And so this comparison really helps to normalize that what
queer people go through, like Alex is the same kind of thing
where you have to constantly hide who you are and it eats you
up on the inside. And it makes it hard to have
relationships with people because you're constantly hiding
who you are. That's what we see with the
superhero. A narrative also people don't
judge you. Yeah like it try to hurt you
like it just or hurt the people, you love, and like the, it's the
exact same thing. So I love that they're setting
up that comparison. They're like, hey, this is kind
of what queer people go through in a real-life that same thing
that you've been I am, people have, it's normal normal that
like Siri superhero behavior is normal and we empathize with the
superhero even though there are no superheroes doing this.
But it's like, hey the sister is also going through this in a
very real way that happens in real life.
Life. So, it helps again, to for
people who don't go through this to like compare the two of you
like, hey, these are very similar.
Like, if you're having empathy for one, you should be able to
understand and have empathy for the other and so I love that
they chose to do it in this show because that is very important
to like put those two kind of stories up together and be like,
hey, their kind on the same like and the other thing I love is in
that context for both of them Cara and Alex, both struggle
with the loneliness component because having that do that,
duality in life is isolating and everyone can kind of relate to
being lonely at some point in time.
But like, I love that, that comparison is made here too,
because unfortunately, that is part of it, like you can't be
used. So it's very isolating and
lonely until you can like yeah, and then, on the couch there,
they basically realized together like we have each other and like
this is Like with when they're together like they don't have to
hide anything. Yeah.
And I just I just love it. Yeah.
The last because it's like Cara explaining to her sister.
I am Supergirl and her being like yeah, sure.
Okay. Now I know that I'm now I know
who you really are and it's the same thing.
It's Alex doing that back to Cara is like, we've been through
this with you. I have that do identity to now,
I'm letting you in on that. So it's like a full circle
thing. I usually would have stuck with
that more. I love the sister relationship
and they just kind of got rid of it like not fully, but it's just
wasn't as much of a focus. And I feel like that was like a
lot of the heart of the show. Personally, My real, they went
off the rails with that show. They sure they did.
They did, I think I like season 3, season 4 started to Like I
understand putting politics in a little bit too like educate
people on like what's happening in a different way but I feel
like it Focus too much on it when you're like usually watch
TV to escape then to like deal with the same things. but there
is something later that I wanted to bring up its Nia and her
coming out as a superhero because I forget why she had to.
oh but there's this whole storyline how she came out as
trans and all you saw the backlash that it had and her get
It was just it was it was a rough episode but that's awful
because when they did that at Batwoman their wife when she
came out as a lesbian. There wasn't really that.
So That's terrible. I didn't watch it that far into
the show to get to me. I've only seen it once so I
can't comment on it too much. I just do.
It was a big thing and Nicole means who plays portrays Nia
like that. That poor girl goes through so
much on a daily life. Just trying to advocate for The
trans community and the hate that they get is even worse than
just being gay or lesbian. So, I'm glad I didn't shy away
from that, like they did, they talk to her about how they
should write it, how they should portray it.
And I think that's what makes coming out stories in the media,
a lot better. It's when they're actually
accurate. Yeah, it all comes back to the
writers room, guys. Hmm, yep, which is great asked
people if you don't identify as lgbtq and you want to write
those characters, ask the people their experiences Like Cody
Peterson. Such a great, dude.
Great dude. You got anything else to say,
Bray? Alright, the next scene.
So the next scene, I wrote so much like history stuff.
Because obvious I didn't watch it when it came out because I
wasn't born yet and then I realized, wait a minute, no free
and see or would have actually seen it.
And I didn't have to actually write down all this history
stuff but we're talking about Ellen and her coming out on her
TV show and how the world exploded after that.
Before I'm going to let just breathe in through your get into
their stuff. I'm just going to write down,
I'm gonna list, read, whatever. I the stuff that I have.
So the shhhh this episode came out on April 30th, 1997.
basically, the big plot point was that Ellen was Openly
admitting that she was gay and she liked Susan Network
Executives. Wanted to just give her a puppy
instead of giving her a love interest.
That is why the episode is called the puppy episode because
they once they actually let them like alright fine, you can do
the storyline, they kept that name so it wouldn't So people
wouldn't know what was actually going to happen when the episode
aired 42 million. People watch the episode.
And the backlash was insane, Laura Dern, who I play, I
Believe played Susan wasn't able to find work for a year after it
aired. Yep.
Ellen received death threats and the studio got a bomb threat,
but luckily filming was already done and they messed up the
timeline. The network, stop promoting it,
and kept losing sponsors, after it happens.
So the show is cancelled the next season.
Ellen struggled with success with success.
Over the next six to eight years until she started her talk show,
but it also paved the way for all the stories too.
People have be who they are on TV.
So now I believe free. You said that you watched it
when it aired I was watching the show up into that up until that
point because It was I just liked it because it was funny.
It was a funny show. It's Ellen.
She's funny. Alum is fucking funny, whatever
else, for whatever else she is. Yeah, she's a great comedian
ever. She's a great comedian.
So I loved the show and watching it and then one day I went to
go, you know, like ol. It's time for Elena.
My mom was like, you can't watch that show anymore.
Why not? And she didn't ever really give
me a reason. I just knew I couldn't watch
Ellen anymore. So in my like kind of young
brain, I just went along with my day I guess and then years later
I was like, oh okay, that's why huh?
How old were you? When that happened, huh?
Tell me the year again. 96 to 97 April 30th. so, it would have
been You do math. I was seven, I was 25 years ago
so take your age - 25. 14. Okay, I was coming with.
I was like hoping that you weren't like 17 18.
And your mom was like, no you can't watch it.
Maybe even 14 to the part. I was coming to the time where I
was going to start being like, huh?
Um, this is weird what's going on?
So, that may have been part of it because I did I remember at
the time, Saying things to my best friend.
About. people that had been coming out as gay because during
this time period you had other people who were out Coming out
like Melissa Etheridge. So, I remember commenting on
Melissa Etheridge song to my best friend and her going.
Ooh. Yeah, we're both gay now.
This is indoctrination response. Yeah, so you're supposed to say
you? Uh-huh.
Despite whatever else is going on inside of you.
And so I just kind of went on with it and being like okay well
I can't be that. Uh-huh and then with the whole
Ellen thing years after I went back and watched it and I'm like
this is just it was the most Austin Oculus scene.
To to watch as someone who was okay with them with themselves
at that point. And it was such a it was like a
bomb going off in the industry for such just a simple scene of
a character. Telling the truth about
themselves over loudspeaker overall.
Okay before we get that she's telling Oprah her therapist So
also I found all that bra and Laura Dern is an icon for just
playing Sue. Yes, you have her older dude.
That's why we the gays all love Laura because she did this and
could get work for a year afterwards just for they didn't
even do anything in the show. She just was Susan.
That was it? Yeah she was just using that was
it. But when she's when Ellen comes
out like she works through it with her therapist like like a
healthy person. So Funny.
I forget if it was what the therapist or with her friends.
I think was a therapist where she finally comes through it and
like she says, there are a lot of people out there that think
I'm sick. And she's like, why would I want
to be discriminated against and how people call me names?
Like, it's like the people now who are like, oh, being gay is a
fad. It's like why on Earth would you
want to like, put yourself in this position, where your
hate-crimed, like why? Like, obviously I'm not doing
this for attention like this. Is who I am and it's like and
it's just it's sad that like that's the attitude of people.
And it just causes you to wrestle the way.
Ellen is wrestling with it in that moment and she's very in a
good way portrayal. Like kind of what that's like
and like, she's like, I could hide and like never told my
friends and avoid the Discrimination or like maybe I
could just be happy. Like, you know, and because
there's that fear to wouldn't when she's telling Oprah and
over like are you going to tell your friends?
Are you to tell your friends and like Ellen struggles with that
because it's it's like once you what She he sent like are you
going to talk to your friends? She goes, well, yeah, I'm not
going to stop talking to them just because I'm gay.
She's like, oh, you mean tell them that I'm gay.
No, but she's like, okay, can you talk to your parents is like
okay I'll talk to my friends. Yeah, but I mean like the thing
is though, it's like once you say it that's it.
Like you cannot take that back that you're saying.
So like in her comedic way she's high like that's what she's
trying to show like she's like, I'm still going to be friends
with them. Just I don't need to tell them
this because then our Dynamic will change forever and I'm
afraid of that because that's a very real.
Like we've talked about all of the coming outs, they go poorly,
where you lose family members, friends, our family to her like
that is her family because like a Trope in queer, dumb is your
family doesn't support you. So you find people in life that
do and you have a found family kind of thing.
So that's what Ellen has and she's like, if I tell them, I
might lose them forever and Now I'm opening myself up to like
ridicule and hatred you know, but ultimately she's like but I
on the flip side I could have love with Susan maybe if that
goes well and like you know. So I love that when she's
telling Susan and like she's just having so so much trouble
saying the words, I'm gay but hard to say.
Yeah, really the first time you say it is snow, okay, but think
about this situation to She's telling her crush them like that
makes it harder, like it's so relatable because like, you
know, there's like a barometer for being afraid of like telling
family telling friends, but like telling the crush because
there's another layer of like, wow, it's gonna hurt me an even
deeper way. So, but of course, in true Ellen
fashion, she says it into the bike and tells the entire
airport and because it's Alan, it's still a comedy show.
You know, they really did keep comedy in this episode.
It's hilarious. And I think that is so important
and that is what's missing from so much queer media.
Because, like, literally everything we've talked about
except one day at a time. All of this stuff is so heavy
and fucking dramatic. And it's like, it doesn't have
to be like, what I love about Ellen as a comedian, and I think
is so unique about her as she has this Universal way of using
her material to relate to so many Many different people.
So she was the perfect person to really write and tell this
because she put it on everybody's level like by
interjecting jokes and very strategic times ones that are
relatable to so many people. Like I have something heavy, I
don't want to tell my friends, I don't want to tell my family.
Fine. I'll tell my friends because
they're easier to tell like that's relatable, like
regardless of the topic and she's really brilliant at that
writing stuff that's Universal. And so, it's significant that it
was her that did this because she was able to reach 42 million
people. That's something I'm really only
Ellen could have done at the time.
It's a regardless of who she is now.
She changed the landscape of queer media by doing this and
the people that worked with her did this and it was
groundbreaking and it led the way to where we are now.
But like we ought I find it really annoying that we like
never get comedies like ever. Like, that's why, like, I Love A
League of Their Own so much because there's fucking comedy
and it, we never get that. It's always sad, tragic?
Or just like, it's like enough. Like there's queer joy to, you
know, There's queer. There's funny people like give
us something else. Like it just didn't have to make
our own TV show for real, but this was so just everything and
the other thing I love that she had rejected.
Because again, she made it, relatable and realistic.
So when she's telling the friends you have the one that
like I love you no matter what the one who kind of like
struggles to process it. Then there's the creepy dude
who's like? Yeah lesbians.
It's like that's so real and it's so annoying and she's like
because like that's also what you are opening yourself up to
when you say That out loud is the creepy dudes, who were like,
haha. This is for me, and it's like,
so I love that. You put that in there, too,
because that's fucking reality. It's big.
Yeah. I would have never known that
scene. Existed I didn't.
I'm I took some really classes in school.
Hey they had never seen watch it.
This is the one that really changed.
It changed media. That's the yeah.
They that's why I think it was like the history of TV comedy.
So you're going through like the decades.
And we were shown this rightfully so.
Well, we only saw the airport scene.
So when I was researching this and I saw all the other scenes
in with Oprah, I'm like this freaking hilarious.
It was so well done, no power of Comedy.
Speaking of Comedy, wasn't this wasn't a funny scene but in a
comedy. Yes we're going transition.
Uh-huh. Yeah to biphobia because I mean
I could technically put the second seat.
The second scene is really funny but the first one were going to
talk about is Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Rosa.
Coming out to her parents. I've never seen this before now.
And I do not know all the characters names, so forgive me,
but she's at dinner with the main dude in the show Jay and
her parents Jake. Thank you, Jake.
And then the, the girl's name is Amy, right?
What do you mean? He's not.
There we go, but I just, I'm just, yeah, Amy Ryan to figure
it out. She's really pretty in person.
It's just back to the topic distracted.
What are we surprised? So they're at dinner with roses
parents and Somehow, this has been that we've been trying to
film this episode for 3 weeks now.
So like I haven't seen it in a while. but basically, somehow it
comes up that, Rosa says that Jake and her are dating because
they the parents assume I believe and she's just like, all
right, let's just go with it. And then the parents see, Amy on
Jake's phone and it's like her holding up her engagement ring,
I believe, mmm, and the parents are like, it's okay.
It's all right. I mean, everybody has their
things like, it's okay that he's married.
And then that's that's when Rosa brace.
And she's like, oh sorry back up a little bit there.
Like we we thought you were going to tell us that you were
gay but him being married is fine and she that's when she
breaks and she's like you would rather me date a married man.
Then be with a female basically. Yeah.
And that's when she's just like,
no, I'm not dating him. Okay.
I'm like I get she like tells them she's by and there's a
bunch of scenes in this compilation thing.
And just the whole thing of them, like not accepting that,
but accept something that is really wrong.
Like, don't don't date a married guy.
Right? You love that.
You have to again, it's like cognitive dissonance with the
morality shifting, where they're like, oh, so you're a mistress
fine. He's a man, it's totally fine.
But if you were Mary, if you were dating a woman, that's,
that's immoral. That's how but people think that
way they're like well it's fine because he's a man, like how
there's that's that's actually a moral like versus what?
I can't with these. That's what I'm the cognitive
dissidence of like, what is morality is?
Just ridiculous. You hear yourselves?
And Rosa can't take it to be fair.
And like, the whole thing is like she brought Jake, because
she was going to tell them she was by, and like got Scared and
then chickens out. Like you said and poor Jake.
Aha, you just try to be like the support of friends like whatever
you need. Roseau whatever you need.
But what would I what was significant about the scene to
is that Rosa actually says, I'm bisexual and like that.
Never gets said out loud like ever.
So I love that the show. Had her actually say the word
because it never gets said and she sticks with her.
She's like no. And then later on there's like
in the other scene where they're playing board games with the
family. I think there's like the
bisexual denial that happens, but they're like, well, you
know, you're just experimenting, you know?
It's like if that means I means that Can you?
You will get married to him. Yeah.
Right. That's the one option in the
color so you'll still get married to a guy, right?
Because all you're experimenting and she's like no.
She's like no. This means that I could marry a
man or I could marry a woman like that.
It doesn't mean that. It's just ridiculous.
It's so okay, as far as we've gotten with people understanding
more about the lgbtq+ community, we're still the fucking poor,
bisexuals are still in this position where and this happened
at my workplace, I'll just FYI. So one of my co-workers is
bisexual and married to a man and so we were, we joke around
because at my work, there are in the department that I'm in.
There is me there's another lesbian and then there's the,
the girl is bisexual. So woman, I should say we're all
adults but We were joking around one day and it was overheard by
another co-worker. And so we went to explain that
she's bisexual and she's like, well, how can you put your not
anymore because you're married. You're married to a man.
I'm wait, we're like no, she by Caitlin?
I can't know she's still, but she still bisexual just because
she married a man doesn't change their sexuality and she's like,
but she's married to a man, so she's straight.
How how does the logic not get? The elevator does not reach the
top on. Bisexuality with so many people
and then and then her reaction after that after Ash trying to
explain it is she walked away with her fingers in her ears
going. I don't want to hear it.
I think I remember when this happened, you messaged us, I did
And then it like it prompted a lot of conversations because I
was curious. So I spoke to other people at
our work about it and an alarming amount of people didn't
know how bisexuality works. What it was?
It's like not complicated. I don't understand it's really
not complicated. I have more of these things to
say in the next scene but When she's like trying to draw the
photo of two women in love. Oh my God.
Yeah and the parents are just like friends, best friends,
business partners. Everything except what it was
right and really drawing a heart.
I mean, that's the thing. It's always like, oh, you're
just experimenting and you'll settle down.
So it like it's by denial is what it is.
They're like, I can't, I can, that's fine.
That's like dating a married man.
It's find you'll settle down eventually and like fit into the
box that I want you to be in. It's just ridiculous.
And I just I Love the end when like the parents are terrible
and then the friends show up and Captain Holt who is an out gay
proud gay black man on the show and I love Captain Holt and he
tells Rosa in deadpan Captain Holt fashion where he says every
time someone steps up and says who they are, the world becomes
a more interesting place and boom.
That's the line whoever wrote that Jeff's kiss.
That was beautiful because it's true.
Like It was a very good line, I enjoyed that as well.
Also, I think the part that gets even worse than that is biphobia
within the community itself. Well, yes, that's ridiculous.
Yeah, it makes no sense. It's biphobia and transphobia
are like two huge things. That make no sense for people.
Even like, I mean anybody, but like people in the community
like come on, And it's not. Okay, you can't say those things
just because you're gay, like, I have my dad told me that someone
talking about someone who is transgender and derogatory way
was okay because he was getting like.
No, it's not because that's even worse.
Yeah, I had someone yes stirred a asked me, one of the our guy,
the mechanic guy that comes into the building at works on stuff,
he likes to talk a lot. He said something about hearing
a ad on the radio talking about and he was like, LG Cube be in a
so he didn't know the a, he didn't know the acronym and then
I finished it forms. Like I was like, so lgbtqia+.
And he said, yeah. What's the eye?
And I said intersects what's that?
And I explained it in the as oh Hermaphrodites.
And I said, no, you cannot say that.
Do not say that like that is any and then you went off on a rant
about how white people are oppressed.
But whatever, so I keep pressing yeah.
Well, his whole explanation was absolutely bananas but he
obviously didn't understand why that was not a word you You not
a word to use and he's like it's literally in the medical
dictionary. Like they change those.
You know, there's not just one edition.
They revised when, you know, better, understanding occurs,
like homosexuality was in the DSM-5 or the dsm-4 however,
however many years and now it's not.
So yes, things change sir. And if someone's telling you
that a word is not, okay? And it hurts people.
It's not going to hurt you to stop saying it.
Exactly. That's a very to help other
people. I just hate the excuse like well
that's how it was when I was growing up and that's how I was
raised. I'm like okay but That's not how
it is now. And then they're like, well, I'm
working on learning. I'm like, okay, but you're not,
if you're going to keep saying that same excuse over and over,
Just you internet, you can internalized.
Try to learn everything. But it's not okay.
To keep saying the stuff out loud.
I'm just be like, Oh, I'm learning like, no, you're not.
Cause you keep saying the same thing over and over.
The next topic is what the next? Yeah.
Okay, so now that I'm very pissed, let's go into even more
pissing this intelligence even more aggravating territory, but
in a fun way. Now I heard this song for the
first time, doing research for this episode and I was cracking
up. So Darrell and crazy
ex-girlfriend is by But now, he tells everybody assumed this
amazing song and maybe if I can get away with it on YouTube, I
can insert a little bit of it. Sung.
But I'm just, it talks about so many of the stereotypes and
like, not counteract, but Like gives arguments against it.
So I'm going to just I have the lyrics up and I'm just going to
read some of it. So it says it's all right.
The chorus is hilarious. Now some may say, oh, you're
just gay, why don't you just go gay all the way, but that's not
it. Because buys legit, whether
you're a he or she we might be a perfect fit.
And one more thing I tell you what being by does not imply
that you're a player or a slut. Sorry if there's also the people
in between and this person is like, please make him stop.
That's the fuck the best friendly but the coworkers are
just like to do. We have to do this right now in
the middle of the meeting. But I like that they brought
this up because a lot of people like arguments against like not
dating people who are buyer. Like oh well, they'll just cheat
on me with someone of the opposite sex or like they're
more likely to cheat. That's and it's not Yeah, that
was one of my points for this. The slut.
Shaming that comes with bisexuals, it's just like this
again. Sexualizing people like it just
like, hey, this is who I am and then you just immediately
sexualize this person. And you're like, oh you just
want to sleep with everyone. That's what this is and it's
just like so many assumptions that come from people who don't
live this experience. That's where that comes from.
Like people who don't understand it, instead of trying to
understand it, It or just like oh it's because you're a slut.
Got it. It's like no, he's not.
Oh, I get really fat. I'm so it's always interesting
to see how I feel about things and like, how angry I get over
topics. I like didn't realize I was this
angry over it, like it's just it makes no sense because they're
like, okay, GE is fine by is not.
Well, here's the thing. This is the biphobic male.
Versus female reaction its polar opposite, with Rosa, the woman,
the Assumption from her parents who don't understand.
It was oh, you're straight and just experimenting with women
and being gay versus the male reaction for men that come out
as bisexual is like, oh, you're just gay but you're too scared
to fully be gay so it's like the opposite assumption, right?
Yeah. Another part of the song is like
they're talking about like something I'd like to do miss a
Phi. It's not a phase.
I'm not confused, not indecisive, I don't have the
data choose Blues. I don't care if you wear high
heels are a tie, you might just catch my eye because I'm
definitely buy I loved this. So he was such a good one.
Oh, it's so good. It's really catchy.
I agree. Yeah, because a lot of people
say it's like the transition point from being straight to gay
is just like, oh, you're experimenting.
So I just it's so stupid. It's so freaking stupid
especially if you're in this community already.
Yep. I mean not that people don't go
through that. Like sometimes I just the case
labels are dumb, just speak. Yeah.
Good. Just because people feel like
there's Force to label themselves and if that's right,
I haven't thought about that. Yeah, so that's basically it,
yes. Some people will go through a
transition where they're like, okay maybe I'm bi and then they
identify as that and then maybe they go no I'm not really
attracted to the opposite sex. I think I'm gay and that's fine.
It's not the case for everyone there.
Like actual bisexual people in the wild surprise I said
surprise. Oh my gosh, I get really mad
about biphobia him. Oh my God, we're getting very
angry right now. I don't even, I didn't, I just
like all of my by friends that get shit over.
Oh, that's dumb. I don't even know anyone who's
buying. I mean, we're working on
Danielle, but We're not really working on Danielle, it's a
joke. It's a joke.
We're not, I'm not saying it for you.
I'm saying if anyone and it would be like it's not the gay
agenda of us. Trying to turn everyone gay.
It's our inside joke. Yes.
And Danielle approves. Yeah, actually, she plays into
it quite a bit. Really does.
I love her. She's the best.
She's a good sport. but, Speaking of things that are not
taking seriously boy, here we go.
Here's another, yes. We're going to head on over to
Legends of tomorrow. And a character that came out as
asexual on the show in the last season and then I got canceled
and I'm really pissed about it because I'm like, well, no,
there's a cliffhanger and I really hate.
That's another story anyway Spooner.
What I love about this scene is that Spooner doesn't understand?
The spinner doesn't know that she's asexual.
She's talking too, sorry and sorry is like so Like you see
any guys? You like, like in the bar or
something? Or like, who's your type,
something like that? And she's like, no, I don't
really, I'm not really into that.
She's like, oh, okay. Well well, how about any of the
girls, the women? And she's like I don't know if
I'm really into that either. I'm sorry, it's just like, okay
and then explains to her about asexuality is and sooner goes,
huh? I think I'm asexual then and
it's just like set the simple exchange and seeing Spooner.
Yes, labels don't matter. But getting to be validated with
your feelings and like know that there's other, like there's a
thing for it, I feel as validating.
So seeing how you kind of see her get relieved a little bit
because you can see how uncomfortable she is in the
beginning of a conversation talking about people and that's
how I always was. Like, when people talked about
guys and you're like, do you think that guys can't?
I'm just like, no, no there. That's no.
But yeah. So and then Zari was just like
so sweet to her and I just love that whole scene.
It's a really good seen it. I think labels are useful to
find Community especially because that's that's a thing
into kind of, you know, processing's yourself.
They could just get, they're not they're problematic from an
outside perspective more than anything but I really loved the
scene for the reason you said and because nobody talks about
asexuality, which is, you know, - it's not a thing taste.
So it's like just fucking trust people when they say what I was
what? Yeah go ahead.
How they feel. That's all I have to say.
I was doing research on it for this episode because I'm like I
want to talk more about this because I only have one scene
for it because that's all I knew.
Like this was the first time I've not that I heard of it but
like seen it like actually be portrayed and I wanted to figure
out like if this was actually a thing in media because I've
never heard it before. And there are some but it was
always portrayed. It was always portrayed as
Something that medical professionals could fix.
Yeah, that's gross and the opposite of this scene.
Because what I everything you guys just said, what I enjoy to
to add on to. It is just like Spooner's first
reaction is basically like, I'm not normal and I don't know why,
but then the friend is immediately like, oh no, this is
totally normal. Like, here's what it, there's a
term for this and like I think that's part of the relief where
it's like, oh oh, it's not there.
This is a thing and I'm not just like some weird anomaly like
sense of community. Like you said, But they have the
friend be like, no. This is normal.
It's like, this is normal. It's fine.
Like, what you're feeling is like another level of validation
Beyond just being like, Oh, there's a term for this.
But the friend being like reassuring like, hey, this is
normal, you know, important. I just want to confirm real
quick, I don't know if you guys watch that far into Legends.
I've never seen the show just like, okay gifts which was the
season that I stopped watching her before this season.
Okay. I just want to confirm something
real quick because I don't fully remember.
I want to make sure that Spooner is she her?
Because I believe so, but I do not want to get this wrong
because I've only seen that season Once it was a little
while ago winner. You gotta put more contacts into
Google for that. Yeah, she okay, I yeah, doesn't
hurt to clarify though. It doesn't at all.
That's our, that's our new tagline, ask the questions.
That's the question I had to. Um, One time my mom was like,
well, how do you know if someone identifies as a girl or a boy?
I'm just like go up to them and ask what their pronouns are.
It's okay to ask what their preferred pronouns are.
It's a respectful way to do it. Yeah. but you were talking about
labels and I feel like well it may limit others and people
don't like it for some people. It does really help them and I
think seeing it more on TV would help.
A lot of people in the comics Is, I don't know if it's called
Riverdale in the comics. Whatever that comic was Jughead
that Mirchi Comics. Yeah that one then that one
sorry Jughead was asexual in the comics.
And they didn't transfer that to the show and it was such a huge
cannon thing in the comics. Well, I don't know how big I
have limited research here. They should have kept it for the
TV. I've never seen this show thing.
I don't understand the why you wouldn't whatever it's like, I
don't watch that show, but from promotion material, it just
looks like a one of those like typical head shows where I like
the teenagers are hyper sexualized.
So like the main character is what I Harry's character.
It just has that energy where you have like models in their
20s playing 16 year olds. So it's hyper-sexualized like
I'm over that representation in general.
Like, so that's probably why and it's unlike the CW.
I think we'll same person the same person we can we can have a
whole episode on networks. If we want about how they can
delete an entire episode for the CW, I think.
Ya know. I think we'll have to take like
a whole month feel like CW Netflix.
Hulu Disney Amazon. Yeah.
I know we covered a ton of different light coming out
stories and it's kind of a universal experience with, like,
queer people. So, if there's any scenes that
were particularly memorable to you in media that we didn't talk
about, please share them with us like on social media tag us or
if you want to share your story like, Please do come in or
Discord. Come talk to us.
Nobody should have to be alone with all these feelings.
If you're in a situation where it's not safe for you to come
out like that is totally valid, like, please protect yourself.
That's what's most important at the end of the day, just know
you're not alone, like we you're not alone, you are normal.
No matter where you work here and we're not going anywhere.
Yes. Well, if you all hydrate for
lesbian Jesus, Hi, George and Stefan, atleast a safe.
We love you. You're in a bar.
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