Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters and we're
here to talk about it. Cheers, queers.
We are back with another super fun interview.
Today we are talking to the wonderful Anne Marie Pace.
She was a director on High School Musical, The Musical, The
series, amongst many other projects.
Welcome to the podcast. Hello, good to be here.
I am so excited. You've done so many wonderful
things to enhance representation, especially on
Disney, and it's I can't wait to talk about it.
Yes, absolutely. So the first.
Question is, how did you get started directing?
Yeah, yeah, I got started. Well, I think I had an interest
in directing 'cause I I grew up in Tennessee in a pretty small
town. And you know, the representation
I saw wasn't super huge or diverse.
And I was a Mexican American queer kid and definitely
closeted at the time and just didn't get to see myself on
screen as much as I wanted to growing up in the late 90s,
early 2000s. So what helped me personally
when we didn't have that representation on TV at that
time was my dad is an anthropologist.
And so every summer he would take us on his research trips in
Brazil and Mexico and with different indigenous tribes.
And that really opened my eyes to just how different and
diverse we are on this earth. And it really made me want to
tell stories that could unite all of us and and even going to
these to his research trips that I didn't even speak, speak the
same language as a lot of people there.
But the connection was still there and the similarities and
and it was really eye opening for me even at a young age to to
get to experience that. That's awesome.
Such a good way to learn things about the world as a child.
Oh yeah, I was definitely. I felt really lucky to to get to
have my dad and grow up that way.
There used to be a a cartoon, I think on Nickelodeon called The
Wild Thornberrys and saw my family.
It's like that's that's our. Family.
That's so cool. So one of the things when I was
younger, learning that there's multiple directors on shows, I I
don't know why that blew my mind, but it just didn't make
sense to me. So since shows have a lot of
different directors, how do you prepare when you go into a new
show? That's a great question.
Yeah. Yeah.
The director is really the guest.
They're the guest. Every new episode of of a show
that's been going on and you know, knows itself and the cast
and the crew are all family. I I came into High School
Musical, the musical, the series in season three.
So they had already really been going by that point.
So you kind of enter it knowing that you are the guest and it's
your job to really learn about the culture and you know
everybody and learn names and and how things have worked.
So you continue that. And Tim Federly, who's the
creator, he really wanted to bring on more queer directors,
young queer directors. And so he really believed on
believed in me. And that was my first
directorial experience in television that he gave me for
Season 3 and then I got brought on for two more episodes in
season four. So really what he established
was, was the culture that I learned and and it's just so
loving and accepting and wonderful on that set that it
was so easy to come in and just kind of follow what had already
been been placed. That's so awesome and definitely
very important to have voices, diverse voices doing these
episodes behind the scenes. It seems like it could be very
easy to have a show feel different in each episode if
because of all these directors. So how do you learn the style?
Yeah, yeah. It takes a lot of studying past
episodes. I know when I knew I got the
job. I watched through all of season
one, Season 2. I also watched a lot of The
Office because I knew Tim had said he wanted to sort of learn
more into the sort of finding funny moments, which The Office
obviously does really well. So yeah, it takes a lot of
research. And then I actually came and
shadowed Kimberly McCullough on her episode before I directed my
own. And she was just a great mentor
and let me ask any and all questions.
And yeah, I I learned a lot through her and and felt
prepared and ready to direct my own episode when that came time.
I have to say, I love your episodes.
Do you have a favorite episode that you directed?
Man, it's tough, 'cause there's good things in all of them.
I in season three the first episode I directed was the the
real campers of Shallow Lake and that one was just so much fun to
do. It was just Frankie is a comedic
genius and to do an episode that he was basically kind of leading
and heading and and and Carlos's character was really fun to get
to do. But then also season four, the I
did the Halloween episode which was where Ashlyn and Maddox do a
love song together. And that was really beautiful
and important for me to get to do as a queer woman.
And I when when the original High School Musical came out as
as a movie, I was in high school and I was closeted at the time.
So to be able to years later get to direct something of the same
world, only a love song between 2 girls was so beautiful and
amazing. And yeah, I felt really lucky to
get to do that one. I have to say that is my
favorite episode of the entire. Show, I think and.
Maybe because of like the the Madeleine scenes are just
amazing. Yeah, so that the they're just
so cute and well done and such a pivotal moment in their
relationship arc. How do you figure out how to
capture that emotion while directing?
Yeah. Yeah, well that was one of the
things that, you know, Tim really trusted me in doing of
telling it through the perspective of a queer woman, of
this, this storyline and this love song between the two of
them and something that I I really want it to do and bring
to that song is authenticity. And you know, it's it's one of
the songs where we don't go into any sort of magical fantasy
sequences because the love of these two girls together is
enough magic as it is and just the reality of what it is.
So we left. We let it just live and breathe
in in that moment and and a lot of that song we actually
recorded live on set. So normally you'll have like
you'll record on set, but then you'll have a track that you put
in the edit that's like studio produced.
But in the scene in the in the episode that was, that was them
singing live together and it just even in the studio, like
their voices just echoed and harmonized so well, they're just
like, wow, this is a beautiful moment.
Of course it was live. I mean, they're amazing.
I do have a very random question about that episode.
Was Ashlyn's piano battery operated because it wasn't
plugged in and that was messing with my brain?
So we didn't have it actually plain because if you record any
sounds you can't layer it in the edit.
So we had to have it clean. But she, Julia, is so capable of
just going right into it and and a lot of those moments she would
just go and and play on her own and in between shots she would
like play the piano and then everyone would karaoke together
and so she she definitely can hop right into anything and and
play beautiful music. But just for the sake of of
filming, we kept it off. That's a good snack.
Yeah, we can't have. It's supposed to be plugged in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But a lot of our shots we did,
we did that scene on a on a Steadicam.
And so any extra wires exposed, whatever else, anything that
could be dangerous for the camera person, we we take it
out. So yeah.
I mean it also wouldn't work because Maddox has to go around
the piano and it just be like stepping over wires and is fair.
Just curious. So I saw a video that you posted
on social media of the filming in the rain, which is basically
just a huge rain tower I'm assuming unless you can control
the rain. What is?
It like having to use rain in a scene because it looked very
cold. Yeah, that.
That just goes to show how professional Joshua Bassett and
Sophia Wiley are because it was freezing.
It was. We were filming in Salt Lake
City in October. By the end, I think either that
day or the next day it snowed. So it was very, very cold.
Luckily we worked with the the rain operator to make sure that
the rain was had at least some heat in it.
It was heated but by the time it falls on you it's still cold and
then the environment's still cold.
So yeah the the two of them did that very cold and and right
after we hit cut we wrapped them in blankets and towels and and
all that. But they no, the two of them,
they're just such great sports and they work so well together.
So they just had so much fun with it and really enjoyed that
moment and we're ready for for take after take of of getting
wet in the rain. How long did that take to film?
It was a lot of prep and then the actual shooting of it we did
I think 3 takes, three or four takes was the most we did.
But I had like mapped it out exact like camera positions and
shared with the camera operator. And then I sat down with with
Joshua and Sophia and kind of showed them what they'd be doing
where. So they had like the good idea
of what was happening and then yeah, so, so going into it,
everyone knew what they were were doing.
So the moment that we called action and the rain came down,
we went for it. OK, so they didn't they didn't
have to spend it too soaked like.
Right, right, right, right. It was those takes and then they
got to draft and we did it towards the end of the day.
So they wouldn't have to be, you know, cold.
So yeah. Something else that I saw, which
I think is a wonderful, is that you are part of the first season
of Disney Launchpad. Can you tell us a little bit
about what that experience was like?
Yeah, Disney Launchpad was fantastic.
It it is a program that's designed to give diverse writers
and directors an opportunity to make a short film that premieres
on Disney Plus. It's like in a in a group of
shorts. Pixar did it with with animated
shorts. They have like a a group of
animated shorts that they do every year.
So they decided to do a live action version from writer
directors. So in order to apply, we had to
like write a short film idea and sort of pitch it and then go
through these integrated processes.
So there's a group of six of us that got selected that first
year and we kind of spent the year just working on our scripts
and and getting to work with all the different departments of
Disney between like Disney locations, Disney Cast and
really develop something with a studio that was from a diverse
perspective and from a diverse voice.
So that was fantastic that Disney allowed us to do that and
really kind of share our stories in a way that we felt was most
authentic. There were very little notes in
terms of like the story of, of the authenticity of the story,
which was really, really cool. So you did.
You have to like do everything for it.
Yeah. So we had to come up with the
idea. I think now they changed it to
where writers can apply and directors can apply and they
merge you together. But the first year I did it, you
had to be a writer, director and and write your story and then
direct it. So yeah, we did everything from
world building to working with our our crew, production
designers, cinematographer to to bring these worlds to life.
Sounds like a great Boot Camp type opportunity.
Like just. Throw you into it.
Yeah, yeah. And the the short that I did it
was I had finished it right before I directed an episode of
High School Musical, the series. So it was a perfect, like,
stepping stone into that. All of your projects seem to
revolve around diversity and inclusivity just naturally being
included in the story. What makes you passionate about
having this ample representation?
Oh, it's so important. It's so important.
And it's it's something I didn't have.
It's, you know, I didn't come out as bisexual, as queer until
I was 25 years old. And I think about all that time
when I was young and just not being able to see myself and and
when you don't see yourself, when you don't see queer
characters on screen, their lack of presence makes you think that
our stories are not important. And that's really harmful to
sort of internalize as youth. And it's so important for me now
that I'm at a position where I can create content and sort of
change the landscape. It's my top priority to to make
more and more content. That's just queer joy and queer
diversity. Yeah, I.
Know we're all grateful, but I know I'm personally grateful for
it because you really don't see that, especially growing up
watching Disney Channel. I mean now, now it's more
common, which is so great. But it it took me to watching
one day at a time and seeing Elena's storyline.
That helped me be comfortable with myself and it's so
important for people to see and just like positive and not,
people die. Exactly.
Yes. Our our lives are not full of
tragedy. There's so much joy and it's
important for others to to get to see that.
Yeah, I think high. School Musical the Musical, the
series definitely show the joy. Absolutely.
Yeah, and then another comment I wanted to make.
I absolutely loved growing Fangs, which was your project
for the Launchpad and but one of the things I love the most is
not even about like the queer representation.
It was that a plus sized actress was cast.
As the lead and. I you always see like size 0
people when I was growing up and I never had the confidence in
myself to like, even pursue acting, even though I loved it
because it was like there's no part for me.
So I just. I love that that was also
included. Oh, absolutely.
And that was even just Kayla was the one, the the actress who
played bow of that short. She it was a no brainer when we
saw her audition, like she just shined and I sent it to the
execs and right away they saw how amazing she was and now
she's doing huge things. She's on Abbott Elementary.
She's on Curb Your Enthusiasm. So yeah, yeah, it's like it was
it was a no brainer that she just was the star of that, of
that short. She was so great.
Comedic timing is awesome. Yes.
Absolutely fantastic. An amazing actor and also just a
great human, which is great. And another win for the queers.
You also directed Disney Plus's first This Is Me Pride
Celebration spectacular that featured a few people we've
talked about on this podcast, including Joe Serafini, Frankie
Rodriguez, Alex Newell and Haley Kiyoko.
What was that like? Amazing.
It was so cool to get to do that.
I I had done music videos in the past, but to get to work with
queer musicians that I listened to and loved was so cool and
everyone was just awesome on that set.
Haley was really, really just cool and casual to work with.
And it's just always great to get to see people that you
admire and just see that they're awesome people in real life.
And yeah, and to get to join that, the these queer artists
singing Disney songs and for example, like Hailey Kiyoko did
kiss the girl, but obviously it was a queer she she didn't
change the pronoun. It was the girl still.
And and to get to sort of see these stories that we grew up
with through a queer lens is really healing and just
furthers. You know, the idea that queer
love is wholesome love and and it's a message that I think
needs to be spread more and more.
That's that's amazing. I just, I love everything that
you're doing. Especially like, because Disney
definitely needs this going in the Oh my gosh, hold on.
Disney needs a step in the right direction and you are definitely
helping them. Take that and I just love.
Everything you're doing. No, I appreciate that.
Yeah. So not only are you a director?
But like we talked. About a little bit before you're
also a writer and you are writing the screenplay
adaptation of the book Her Name in the Sky.
Can you talk about that project a little bit?
Oh, I'm so excited about this project, this book.
It's a book about a girl growing up in Baton Rouge in Louisiana,
in Catholic High School, and she falls in love with her best
friend. Baker realizes she's queer and
is sort of internally trying to figure out what that means to be
both queer and Catholic. And when I read this book, it
just hit me in such a personal way.
I went to Catholic school. I also had been, you know,
struggling with what what it means to be both.
And this book sort of spoke to me in a way that presented that
in a whole new, in a whole new light.
So I reached out to the author of the book, Kelly Quindlin, and
the two of us ended up. Talking and somebody else was
actually pitching for for her book rights.
And so I came in at a good time because I also had a pitch.
So we had multiple pitches for these book rights.
But I think the fact that it was something I had so personally
experienced and connected with that Kelly felt that it was the
right person to tell the story. So yeah we're we're working on
the script right now and it's it's it's been one of the most
fulfilling things to get to really break this story and and
I'm so excited for for hopefully one day when the film can be
released. How do you approach turning a
book into a film script? Yeah, yeah.
This was my first adaptation of of book two script and it's been
such and exciting and interesting challenge.
The good thing is you know a lot of times when when you have a
writer adapting a book you you don't work super close with the
author like you kind of like OK now it's movie mindset so we're
just going to do movie. But the fact that Kelly and I
had both experienced this story so personally and this it, it
was a very personal story for her obviously fictional
characters, but something that she had gone through, the two of
us working together has been really poignant and powerful
with with figuring this story out.
So that's just been a gift to be able to call the author and be
like, OK, what do you think about this or I'm thinking about
this? Do you think that's true to the
characters? Yeah, it's been a a great tool
to have. That's that's really cool.
Our podcast just covered Red White and Real Blue, which is
also a adaptation of a book, and we talked about how similar and
the differences of the film to the book.
So how do you figure out what needs to stay and what to leave
behind and not put in a script? Yeah, you know that's that's
definitely one of the the hardest parts about it because
even as a writer, director coming into this with a film set
mind, I fell in love with the book.
So I want to put everything in the book, in the movie and we
have like a four or five hour movie, so that's not possible.
So you really. Do watch it.
Yeah, yeah, we'll do an extended version.
But no you do have to have to pick and choose to make sure
you're making the best decisions for a movie that's going to move
forward and and engage audiences and hopefully engage even more
than just the the fan base it's it's attracted with the book
like to really spread this message out to a wide audience.
So yeah, you have to pick and choose.
But it's also exciting because you no matter what, even with
picking and choosing, if you keep the heart of the story
true, it's really cool to see how a different interpretation
of the same story can be just as powerful and just as you know,
like it's it's it's almost like magical to see a good story is a
good story and it can be told in so many different ways and and
that's cool to see. I can't wait.
My last question is, is there a story that you hope that you get
to tell one day? Oh, so many.
There's so many, yeah. It's it's really important to me
to tell more queer stories that can can play on family and
children content to show that our lives are wholesome.
I think a lot of times the argument you'll you get from
people is like, oh, they're don't sexualize our kids.
But my response to that is like, why are you sexualizing us?
Like that's not what's happening.
Like my relationship with my with my wife.
Most of the time we're just on the couch watching Netflix and
matching pajamas with our two Chihuahuas.
Like, that's as PG as you can get.
So it's important for me to show how how wholesome queer love is
and also just queer joy. Like I want to do more ROM coms.
I want to do a queer wedding film with two women.
I want to do a a queer what it's like to have children between
two women. I I think these stories, like,
they have so much humanness to them and and relatability and
joy and humor that I think, yeah, it's there's a lot of
stories I'm very excited to tell.
So basically all the things that the straight people have been
getting, let's give it to the queers.
Yeah, it's time. It's it's a long past time.
We have a lot of catching up to do from the film industry being
around for over 100 years and only these last couple years
have we have. We really seen queer
representations start to grow, so a lot of catching up.
Yeah, and you brought up that people like sexualize it and
don't want it in the media because of that.
Then those people are the same ones who will ask like a
kindergartner. Do you have a boyfriend or
girlfriend? Yet that's.
Exactly true. That's what's weird.
Yeah, yeah. And it's so important, like I
have a niece now who's gonna be entering school soon and like
she wants to be able to see her aunts represented, you know on
TV and be able to point at her Thea and be like, ah, see,
that's two women can be together.
And yeah it's it's it's really important to to show a diverse.
There's so many ways you can have a family, and the a queer
family with queer parents is is a representation that needs to
be seen more. Definitely.
Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you so much for
joining us. Well, me today, us as a
collective. Do you have any final words for
the listeners at home before we wrap up our discussion?
Yeah, I just, you know, I want to say thank you for doing this
pod, doing this program and podcasts.
And it's so important to be able to make content and pitch that
there's an audience for it and there's people that want to see
this and and having this sort of outlet where you are are talking
about queer content is really important for us as creators to
be able to show studio execs and be like see like this is what's
wanted. So thank you for for using your
voice, and I will do everything in my power to make sure your
voices get heard. Thank you.
If you ever need more support, we'll go into meetings with you
if you like. We need this.
Like, listen, these stories need to get told.
And here's why no exactly. Well, you are stuck with us as
fans now. We will be following everything
you do because so far your work has been amazing.
Thank. You again for taking the time to
talk with me today. I really appreciate and love
getting to know you better. I'm sure the audience does as
well. To everyone at home listening,
make sure to check out High School Musical, The Musical, the
Series and Growing Fangs streaming on Disney Plus.
And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and gay it up all
over the place. Bye.
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