Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters.
And we're here to talk about it. Cheers, queers.
Today on The Big Gay Agenda, we're talking to Taylor Napier,
who plays Maxim in The Wheel of Time, which is about to release
Season 3 March 13th on Amazon Prime.
Welcome to the podcast. Taylor.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
We're so excited. It feels like it's been 84 years
since Wheel of Time has been back.
So we're just, we're so excited and we're excited to talk to you
about it. Perfect.
I'm excited to talk about it. Yes.
So without any spoilers, what can you tell us about your
character this season? Anything exciting going on or?
I think there's always a a little bit of excitement.
Going on with Maxim. But definitely this season, you
know, I thankfully we can talk a little bit about the. 1st 11
minutes or whatever that were released.
Yes, couple of minutes so. There's epic 11 minutes, so
there's something we can actually talk about.
So yeah, there was. You know, it started the season
starts off with a big Big Bang. It's it was kind of an
incredible experience to film that.
And then it kind of only gets Wilder from there.
You know we. We say those first 11 minutes
kick us off real strong and then it then we just ratcheted up.
So it's a. It's a fun season, I think.
Yeah, they were not messing around.
They're like and here's a giant fight sequence.
We're not gonna. We're not fooling around.
What's third season? We're gonna we're gonna pull out
all the stops. For sure.
No, not. At all.
Yeah. All right, So Maxim is one of
the few explicitly LGBTQ plus characters in The Wheel of Time.
How did you approach bringing that representation to life?
Yeah, I think, I mean I think it's in important to.
Have that representation in the fantasy world there are so many
LGBTQIA plus fans of that that world in that world, you know
and and. It's so it's not.
Rarely represented, but I feel like it is so.
Rarely wholly represented in a way.
I feel like you. See you occasionally.
See or have characters that pop up another series that are a
part of the community but aren't aren't.
Celebrated in a way, almost like it's.
It feels very what we do. On the show is it feels very.
Inclusive and also like, it's not a thing, you know?
I think that's the most beautiful.
Thing about our relationship in the show and about maximum in
general is. In in one of the more
interesting things to. Play as a character, as an actor
coming in to play that character is that he's in a.
World where being queer by doesn't have.
Any stigma attached to it in the way that that we might have it
in our society or any baggage that he brings.
Into it because of how he might. Think that he's being perceived
in a social situation or within the broader context of the
society. So in many ways it it's about.
Kind of almost forgetting. In some capacity.
What that? Means to me.
Or to to to anyone who's in in the queer community because it
they're not feeling that burden. In the same way.
And and so coming in with kind of almost fresh eyes about what
it what it would mean to like live a life that doesn't have
that sort of sort of baggage with it.
Yeah, the adaptation definitely seems more like liberating for
the characters of a certain aspect where they can kind of
just be themselves and they're a lot more fleshed out in some
aspects, which is really, really nice.
And specifically surrounding Maxim.
So Maxim, you know, in the past seasons that we've seen in the
in the novels, he's part of this trio relationship basically with
Ivan and Alana. And it's one of these rare
examples of this like kind of like polyamorous relationship
coming from this novel into mainstream fantasy.
So our question is, how important was it to portray that
kind of dynamic that's really unique too to see on?
The scene. It's a super unique.
Dynamic to the show and I think one that you'll see more of
going forward obviously from us in season 3, but I think it.
I think the interesting thing. Is developing their dynamic
interpersonally, what those relationships are, how they come
together, how they fit. You know Ivan in in many ways is
the center of that relationship and.
It's different, I think. Through my research through for
every polyamorous relationship, but in this specific case, Ivan
is sort of linchpin if you. Will you know?
Ilana and Ivan were in a relationship and he became her
warder. And then I was sort of brought
in after the fact or after that relationship had already been
established, after Ivan and I had developed something.
And so I find. That that navigating with those
characters and how those characters feel about each other
is quite fascinating as an actor because Maxim and Ilana have
love for each other and have a history together, but it's all
through the prism of Ivan. And so sort of trying to figure
out how to bring that to life and how to have that read on
camera into an audience is really interesting.
And also making sure that it's done with care and making sure
that we're not just like kind of just saying.
Oh, they're polyamorous. How fun is that?
And then and then just moving on, you know to make sure.
That we're portraying that there's actual interpersonal
dynamics in their relationships that are deep and conflicting
sometimes and multi layered. Yeah, I definitely.
And then adding to the multi layered too.
So it's not just like this polyamorous relationship, but
it's like Warder iced ice. They're also like you have like
a working relationship. Too, Yeah.
There's a, there's a lot of different layers that it's very,
it's very difficult to know and I think it's probably for me is
the actor, where is this the working relationship?
Where is this the love relationship?
I'm sure it's very difficult for the characters too.
As well. You know the warder iced I
relationship is really. Fascinating to me because it's
very complex in a very in a multifood of ways, you know,
between even just them being able to feel each other through
the bond, which is. You know, thinking about.
How to play that as an actor when Ilana's feeling sad or when
Ivan's feeling sad or happy? Or joy or grief?
Are you on? Some like.
Endless feedback loop where your sadness contributes to her
sadness that contributes to your sadness and how do you get out
of that or or happiness or or for maximum Ivan Ilana.
You know they're all feeling. Horny like how does, how does
that ever end? And so and so that's the thing
to kind of pick apart for sure. And then, you know, I think
within the. Warder Isidai, Kind of.
Dynamic and I think. That's something that you'll see
out play out and you've seen through some other characters
through Maureen and LAN in in past seasons, but you'll see it
more in this season for us as. You know.
The warder Isidai I'm on is interesting.
But it also. Is is something that leaves the
warder with very little agency in their own life and and and
not super able to make their own decisions.
And what happens when everyone disagrees and do you stay
together? You know, your position is sort
of subjugated and, and, and, and lower than the IS and I that
you're serving. And so how do you how do you
manage that? And it becomes a really, really
kind of crucial focal point, I think, for our characters this
season. Yeah, thank you for expanding on
that. I'm just going to jump, Caitlin,
because we actually did get a question from one of our
listeners on Blue Sky. I love this name rant Al Moore,
which was great. I was asking what which is so
good, but wanted to know specifically as you were saying,
like the the warder Isidai relationship is complex to begin
with and there's power imbalances.
But then in your situation, it's like there's multiple warders
and one Isidai, so how is that different?
So thank you for expanding on that.
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's,
it's tricky too, because. Ivan is more senior than Maximum
within the wardrobe community and so is he lower than Ivan.
And one of the things that we threw.
Out the blocking of both seasons and and and and this one as well
were very at least something I was attuned to and some of the
directors were attuned to. We didn't want it to ever seem
like there was a hierarchy between the two of them, and so
you'll notice the maximum isn't they're never or they change
positions, but there's never anyone that seems to be ranked
higher than the other, even though I.
At least scripted I I actually don't think this is true in real
life. I think.
I'm the older one. But scripted maximum is younger
than than Ivan but but but. I I think I think so.
So that. Makes it a really.
Interesting. Sort of thing to to unpick as
well is how how much power. Do you have and I think you do
see it a little. Bit with Maxim and Ivan two in
the second season at the end. Where they're.
And Ivan is very. Open.
To I think maybe because she's a.
Green eyes and eye or whatever you know.
She's more open to input from her orders and from the the men
in her life then maybe someone in another Aja would be.
And so sometimes we together can overrule her sort of her
decisions. But it's definitely a kind of a
funny space to come to as an actor because you're you're
always you're, I think as an actor, you're always wanting to
play scenes where your character may.
Lose. But they're at least advancing
their own agenda and a lot of times that you find that you're
advancing a lot as agenda. Not your own.
And you're like, well, what does this?
Character actually want. What do I feel or what does
maximum feel in this moment? And, and you know, how, how is
now he? How is he using that to, to get
what this group, this trio wants?
But it also makes them super effective I think as a as a unit
because they do work together and communicate super well.
It seems like these interpersonal relationships are
a lot more complex than we even see on screen.
And they're, you guys are really talking about it.
And yeah, figuring all these things out that we don't even
notice. Yeah, I mean look like we're
we're talking about I mean also we live with these character.
I mean, I've. Lived with Maxim for five, 5 1/2
years now. So I've had some time to think
about it also through COVID and the rider strikes it.
So there's, there's, there's a lot to to kind of figure out,
but but yeah. I mean, everyone sort of I think
on our show specifically spends a lot of time thinking about how
their characters see the world. And also I think as an actor,
you know, I it's sometimes very difficult when you watch the
show because you or any show that you're in or any project
that you've done because your. Job is truly.
To see the world only through that character's eyes.
You know you're, you need to know.
Everything that's happening, but I'm only looking at every scene
and everything that's happening in this world through Maxim's
perspective, and so it's always very shocking to see all these
other things going on. Also, we the way we shoot is
quite fragmented. So I don't necessarily interact
with, you know, people who are shooting like in in season 2, I
never really interacted with anyone who was shooting in
Morocco or exclusively in Morocco.
So then you see the show and you're very surprised that
there's this whole other story going on, even though.
You've read the scripts, you're like, oh, right, right.
That whole thing was happening while we were while we were at
Alana's farm and, and, you know, doing all the.
Doing all these other things and and it's a.
Yeah, but it is so it is really. Kind of your job to think about
all of those things, even if it's not necessarily something
that the audience will ever pick up on.
So this is a random, really random question.
So do you ever just like, wake up in the middle of the night
and be like, Oh my gosh, that's what that meant?
Like have an epiphany for Maxim. Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think it changes all the time.
Like you'll definitely come in and be like, definitely think.
Oh right, that is all threaded together now in my.
Head and. Oh, well, clearly what we're
doing with him is we're like showing the evolution of someone
from like kind of a novice water to being a great water and being
a man. Like it's all it all goes
through and like you're trying to piece.
Together, the storyline, but ultimately, ultimately it's all
kind of pointless at the end of the day because I've already
filmed everything and the can and the the performance is
already. Really in the can you're like, I
wish there was a thought of this.
Six months ago. So is there anything you would
have changed about your performance?
Oh. Here's the thing I think any
actor would. Say there's a lot of things
they'd probably change about their performance looking back,
but I think in general I'm very happy with kind of how Maxim is
portrayed on screen. It was very important to me to
feature someone on the show and to feature a character like
Maxim that. Is.
Queer and is very and is is very open and owning of that, but
also displays a lot of different facets of being a warrior and
being incredibly gifted at what he does and good at what he
does. And I think you only see more of
that in season, Season 3. Awesome.
So shifting back to fan questions.
So all of our fan questions actually come from Blue Sky.
They were very, very excited over there.
Yeah, they're they're they're pretty sweet.
I I've got a good group of good group of people who.
Kind of follow me and, and, and bolster me up there a little
bit. So it's, it's very, it's good to
hear that they've, they've submitted a lot of questions.
It's very fun. Pi Jacobson asks what has been
the most unexpectedly fun experience so far during your
time on Wheel of Time? Oh, unexpectedly fun.
I mean unexpectedly from. Like the very beginning would
probably be my relationship that I've developed with Priyanka
Bose, who plays Alana. She's just the most.
Delightfully strange human being I've ever, ever encountered and
I. I I did not expect, you know,
you don't know when you're. Starting a job, who you're going
to get, you know, paired up with who you're going to have most of
your scenes with. And it's just been such a joy.
She's she has such a warmth, an array of light and an energy
when she walks into a space that I think is infectious and, and.
Everyone takes notice and most people I think fall in love
immediately and she and if if they don't fall in love within
the 1st 5. Seconds by 5 minutes they'll be
they'll be totally in love. So so that.
Relationship has really been really been wonderful and and a
surprise and and fun too. It's always good to love who you
work with, yeah? You can, you can go the opposite
way. I've had a few, few situations
where it's, it's, you know, it's always been professional, it's
always been good. But you're not necessarily sad
to say. Goodbye to them at the end of
the season. Not on this, not really.
On this show, but on. Other things I've done.
Oh, no, we don't worry. You don't have to name names,
but we all have had that experience, Yeah.
Yeah, our next fan question comes from Call him Ian, who
asks. The fandom has noticed and
really loves your participation slash immersion in our
community. Do you have any fun stories
about Wheel of Time fans? Oh, you know, I think the I
think. The the I don't have like a
specific story, but I think just the generosity that so many of
them have had. You know, I've, I've been lucky
enough to do a few plays while the run of the show's been
happening and and have these these fans come and and see my
work on stage, sometimes travel great distances to be to be
there. It's just really.
I want to say humbling because that.
Feels a little silly to me, but it's very, it's really nice.
It's really kind of, it's really special and very.
Sweet. And and they they did do this
thing that I am still laughing about because I still I don't
have it. With me, but I do have it,
they've made, they took some. Of my like Instagram.
Like. More modeling like promo photos.
Slash thirst straps. And they made a calendar.
Out of it last. Year for.
And and. Sold quite a few copies.
I think I'm I'm going to say they sold quite a few copies.
For charity and and that was really sweet.
It was really, it was really, really funny and also really
kind to be embraced in that way. That's incredible and the fact
that charity benefited from. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think if
I remember correctly, I think we, we sold.
I mean we, we got bought. Several books for some kids in
the in the UK. That's really great.
And and I think they've done a second.
One for 2025 with Priyanka's photos so.
Yeah, there. So they took our.
Photos and they posed. As these characters or as us
doing whatever in the same. Like kind of situation that we
were in. And so it's it's very sweet.
It's very sweet of that. We have one more question from
Col. him in Who? Who says Maxim's background
seems rough? What can you tell us about the
mental steps you take to bring his character to life?
You know one of the things that. I think about Maxim or his
background is is that? It's I made a.
Joke in another interview that I was doing is I.
Is I. Think that Maxim is has had a
rough background. He's comes from a fairly wealthy
family. At least that's what it's been
explained to me and what is in my head.
It comes from a fairly wealthy. Family that's maybe a minor
noble family in Andor and he has a father that's just absolutely
horrific and who there's a line in season 1 who he said he tried
to kill me when I was 12 or kill maximum when he was 12.
And so and sort of playing off of that and sort of trying to
explain Maxim's characterization, at least in my
head and make a through line of it, as I do think that Maxim's
kind of always dealt with that by by flight.
So he's. He.
I think that's what makes him a very reluctant order sometimes,
is that his natural instinct is to run and so and to make jokes
and to avoid and to sort of, you know, just not hit anything, not
be confrontational, dead on. And so when he's put in
situations where he has to confront things, he's sometimes
a little uncomfortable and he tries to squirm out of it.
I think that I think that figuring like kind of what that
out is and what the the the relationship with his father was
is very important to me. But.
One of the things. That I know that I talked to the
writers about. Is and I wanted to make.
Just because this is the world that we're doing is I wanted to
make sure, you know, it had nothing to do with his sexuality
or his or who he was. And, and, and they were like,
no, no, no, no. It's just his dad was power
hungry. Maxim was the next in line and
he tried to kill him so he could keep keep the throne or keep his
his rank I should say. And so.
And so I think he ran off to Tarvilan and he found Ivan.
And I think because Ivan was a warder, that was enticing to
him. But I always say if Ivan would
have been a Baker and Ilana would have been a Baker, he
would have been a Baker. It's more for for Maxim.
I think he's always. He.
Flees some conflict.
But he's always searching love and acceptance and so and he'll
take kind of take it wherever he can find it, yeah.
Now I really want to show where they own a their Baker.
'S right Amazon. Right.
Yeah, but I think I want Baker's and then underground spies.
Yes, yeah, they're still, they're still.
They're part of the. They're part of.
The Isodia organization, but they're they're undercover as
bangers. All right, so the next fan
question comes from Alvaro. What new snack are you going to
bring to Alana in Season 3? Oh, now that is too big of a
spoiler for me to give away. You are there.
There's definitely some snack. Moments in Season 3.
I think we this is the because season 2 was sort of halfway.
In the can when Season 1 came out, so this is the first season
we kind of get to get to play with that sort of so.
Definitely, definitely a very. Big snack moment to watch out
for in season 3. I hope I don't get in trouble
for for promoting that, but. But there's there's.
There's a fun thing happening, yeah.
We'll take it, We'll take it. OK, next question is from Vert
de Greece. Seems like we'll be getting
quite a few fighting scenes in season 3.
What was the most challenging thing about filming them?
The day after when you're really sore.
People don't realize like we so on our show, it's different on
every show. But on this show, kind of how we
film stunt sequences, is that we do everything, for the most
part, 99% of it we don't do. Like if someone's getting set on
fire, they don't set us on fire. They leave that to the train
professionals. But but most of it we do.
And then we have a stunt team or a stunt double who runs it as
well. And so a lot of to get.
You know, like I'm, I'm gotten much.
Better at stunts through my three seasons on the show and
through some training and through some, you know, stuff
that. I've been doing but I'm still
not going. To be as graceful or my body's
not going to look as as fantastic as, you know, someone
who's done this for their entire life.
And so it's good to have both options.
For sure, but I I but I'm doing. Everything this.
Season, I think the the biggest challenge.
Actually, and I will say this because it comes in a little bit
in the first few minutes of this season and some of the other
stuff that we've done is actually the working with the
channelling while you're doing it.
Because obviously we it. Doesn't exist, so we don't see
it. But a lot of times there are
weaves or there are. Things flying through the air.
And obviously they build. It kind of around what's we,
what we've filmed, but you're also like, oh, am I if I step
this way, am I if I blocking something, am I going to like
straight through a weave That would kill me.
You know, we try to play around with it, but it's a lot.
It's a lot to think of. And then also.
This is going to make me kind of sound.
Maybe not great, but. It's really.
Frustrating. It's lovely and I'm so happy for
Priyanka, but it's very, very frustrating to spend 3 weeks
doing a stunt sequence, practicing it, rehearsing it.
And Priyanka works very hard on her channeling.
But I am fighting my ass off, literally fighting my ass off in
the background while she's going, while she's doing some.
Beautiful Tai chi movements to send some energy out and I and
she's gonna and everything's gonna look good.
The VFX are gonna be amazing and it's gonna be fantastic, and I'm
just gonna get like one shot of me doing all of this behind her.
And you're like. I really.
I'm really out. Of shape and I really, really
put all of that and she was like, I think that was great.
Like I was, I'm just, she just got her feet kicked up and
afterwards and I need, I need. 20 minutes to recover for the
next take. So, so sometimes that is a
little frustrating, but but but it's a but it's a you.
Know it's part of the gig. It shows how much heart you're
putting into your performance though, because you're go all in
on it, no? You you have to if you this the
fight scenes are always. Kind of a situation where.
There's. There's not a lot.
Of nuance to them you just. As an actor, you if you don't go
all in and commit then you're going to look like you're half
assing it and that's no fun for anyone.
But that's a really good point that that is different.
Do they like, block you specifically to be like, hey,
there's gonna be stuff flying through the air here.
Like that's imaginary things. Like that.
Yeah, yeah, there's there's their.
Conversations always about do this, do this, do this, but also
like when you're in the heat of it, it's very.
Hard right? You're like.
When you're like, it's very hard to remember that there's gonna
be like a. Beam of light shooting through
or like, you know, an air blade or whatever they're doing.
And. So.
And so you, you just hope that. The people who are putting it
all together, which they always do a great job, are, you know,
paying attention to where you're at so you don't look like a
fool, like you've just, you know, destroyed yourself.
But I guess. I guess in the books.
Warders can't really see weaves anyway, so I guess it's it's,
it's accurate. It's accurate to the to the
situation. That's true, I never actually
thought about that when I was reading.
The book I didn't really show it you.
Can see it and I'll just. Just explain it in my head you.
Can't. See that?
SO can't see it anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
It's not like doing the weather where you can look off to the
side and see what's actually going on.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Next question is from WOT nerd girl AKA Tad.
I'm going to paraphrase this comment that this person left.
So basically, what have you learned from playing Maxim?
Either as an actor or like personally?
Did you take anything away from this character?
I think I have. I think I've.
Tried to take away Maxim's kind of I, I, you know, I've said a
lot about him running from things, but I, I, yeah.
He does have a. Really interesting kind of
confidence that he just is who he is.
And it's something I've always struggled a little bit with, you
know, of, of feeling a little shy when I walk into rooms and
not, not necessarily owning my space.
And, and out of any of the warders, I think that Maxim owns
his space or at least tries to take up space as much as you
possibly can. So it's something that I've,
I've taken on a little bit more after playing him and and having
fun with it. I love that it's such an
admirable trait, a really good. Yeah, I think, I think it's, you
know, it's a hard, it's a hard. Thing to do.
And it's hard to do it in a way that feels, you know, when
you're kind of shy and introverted, it's hard to do it
in a way that feels good and doesn't feel sleazy or like
you're putting on airs. But but yeah, I think, I think
I've tried to take that for Maxim.
Makes sense. And especially when you you're
basically living this character for so long.
Yeah, you do. You do.
You do start thinking, thinking you're like, oh, is that a
tailor thought or is that a maxim?
Thought especially. When we're when.
We're filming. I bet that's because you're in
working such long hours too. You are, you know you don't.
We don't. You don't.
It doesn't always. Translate to the show, but you
know, especially on some of those major fight sequences and
stuff, we're filming for weeks sometimes.
And so you can end 12 hour days for weeks, you know, sometimes
overnight. Sometimes.
The worst is when you and it happens on every show.
It's not just hours versus when you have a night shoot on a
Friday that goes into Saturday morning and then you have to be
up at 5:00 AM on Monday morning. So suddenly your your weekend
goes from 48 hours. To about 36.
And and you're tired and you're flipping your schedule
constantly, so. So you do you do get a little.
Delirious and the line between character and actor starts to
blur a bit. Gotta love those Saturdays.
Saturday, yeah. Saturdays, yeah.
All right, our last fan question is from Curly Worley.
Love your name. Is there a spoiler free favorite
episode or scene in season 3 you can tell us about?
Spoiler free. Favorite episode or?
Scene, I think well, it's in the trailer so I'll use that one.
I think getting the yell about shooting those.
Arrows and yelling loose is is really?
Fun, you know, doing doing that. Sort of thing.
And there there's a bit more obviously around it than that.
Is happening in that episode, you know, getting to.
Play out your medieval kind of fantasy epic.
Childhood dreams are in real life.
Is is is pretty fun. It's pretty great.
I won't lie. It was I, I kind of kept looking
around when we were filming those scenes.
Being like this is magical and I don't know when I'll ever get to
do it again. So I've got to really take it in
because it's just, it's really cool.
I love that so much. You look.
You sound so passionate about this role.
It's so great to hear that you enjoy this experience.
And she always hoped that the people spending all this time
working on a project actually loves it and.
I think I think it is. Sorry.
To interrupt you. But I do think it's a it's, it's
very rare. To be honest, like, I mean,
we've all, you know, people who work in.
Film and TV like you. You do jobs because you love
them and you do jobs because you need to pay the bills sometimes.
And like anyone else. Working in any other film and
you hope that those jobs can be enjoyable and put this one in
particular, I think, I mean, I can't speak for everyone
involved, but I think for most of us has been, you know, it's
been challenging at times. They're long hours.
We filmed for months, but it is, and we filmed over really insane
world conditions with COVID and, and strikes and, and it's sort
of bonded us in a way, you know, and, and made us very close.
And we've become, I mean, everyone shows us on TV shows,
but we've become like a family, like a very big family because
it's a very. Big ass but.
But truly, I care about all of the people involved and, and it
makes it, it makes it really enjoyable to go to work and
everyone is incredibly kind and incredibly passionate.
Not just the actors, but the crew and the heads of department
and our producers, everyone just, it's a really lovely place
to work. And it comes across one screen.
I hope it does. I think it does.
I think it does, but I hope that is the audience's take away for
that part of it at least. That's such a high note.
So those are all the questions we have.
We'll leave it on that really high.
Beautiful. Good.
OK, good.
Wheel of Time. Perfect, perfect.
Agree with all of that. We want to thank you again,
Taylor, for talking to us today. We really appreciate it and
we're even more excited to watch the season when it comes out.
Thank you for having me, this is a really fun chat.
Anytime. So for all the listeners out
there, don't forget to tune in to Wheel of Time Season 3.
It's coming out real, real soon. And until next time, hydrate for
lesbian Jesus. And get it up all over the
place. Bye.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
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