Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
Hello, everyone. We are super excited to talk to
our guests today. Everybody, please welcome.
Sheila Wilson. Sheila is a super talented
writer who created some of our favorite Warrior, it on episodes
and beer. So beyond thrilled.
You took the time to talk to us today.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.
I'm excited. Okay.
Listen, I'm a writer too, so I'm super excited to talk to you,
but my first question we have is, why did you decide to be a
writer and what Drew you to television writing?
Oh, that's a good question. Um, so I think for me backstory
Abridged version, so I'm originally from Louisville
Kentucky, but my family and I kind of grew up a little bit on
the outskirts of the city. And so I had this experience
where I was kind of in this more rural area and we were like, the
only black family in our neighborhood.
And I didn't know, any other queer kids and I was clear.
And so I knew, let's go. And so, I think I gravitated
originally towards, like movies and TV, just because it was the
only place I saw myself mirrored in real life, a lot of the times
and so I, you know, I could still like this Site, most of
fresh prince. Like, I just watched like all
these old like sitcoms and just movies that my parents loved.
And so I think that was maybe like the first thing that kind
of Drew me to TV. But most of my life, I thought I
wanted to be a pediatrician and I was a kid long story.
I was kind of sickly as a kid and I was just around doctors
and you kind of want to be what you see, right?
So I'm like, oh, I want to do that.
However, I in high school, I went to like a magnet school
that had an arts program and I took a playwriting class as an
elective and that was my first mistake because I just fell in
love with like theater and I wrote and directed plays all
through high school and I think that was when, you know, for me
I was just like, okay, like I think I want to do something in
this world and so I went to undergrad at a school in
Chicago, called Columbia College, Chicago, And I just
studied film in general because I was coming from theater and I
didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do in film and TV.
I just knew that I liked it. And so I took classes and
everything like I tried production, design, and
cinematography, and just like things that I'm not good at, but
I took, I took a screenwriting class.
And one day, my professor like pulled me aside after class and
she was like, I like your writing.
And I think it's good and she told me about this program in
l.a. called AFI and she said that if I wanted to apply, she
would pay my application fee. And so, which was very sweet of
her. And so, I took her up on that
offer and I ended up getting in and so I like sold everything
and moved to Los Angeles for the screenwriting program at AFI and
I it was amazing very dense but very good, you know.
I feel like Like I really honed my skills and kind of found my
voice a little bit as a writer there.
And I mean, that's The Abridged version.
I got lucky out of school. I ended up getting signed by a
manager and Warrior and on season.
One was my first job one year later.
Yeah, that's amazing. Are ye wow, yeah, for sure.
Used as a whole, this has occurred also know that feeling
how important Arts are in school, true.
It really, true very important. Yeah.
Very important. Thank goodness for that
Professor Wright. Still in touch with her, she's
one of my favorite people. Like I tell her all the time I'm
like, I wouldn't have a career without you, you know, so thank
you. You know, everyone needs.
What I have a professor like that who was just helped me so
much. That was really cool.
It is. I love them and teachers do
that. We're television writers.
Can you describe what it's like to work in the writers room
versus having your own episodes? Oh, that's a good question.
Because everybody likes is like, oh, it's this person who wrote
it but then you hear about the writers room where everyone is.
Yeah, yeah. So with TV or at least my
experience I could talk about where you're not specifically
since, you know, Are we? So there're I think seven of us
plus three assistants in the season one room and then less of
us in season 2 but we all broke all the episodes together.
So like if the room we would just kind of come in and discuss
the stories and you know the characters and what we wanted
their arcs to be and where we wanted them to end up, like from
episode 12, episode 10, or episode 8 and season 2.
And once we landed on, you know what we wanted for the
characters in the story, We would like go through each
episode. All of us as a group, the
writers and just kind of write out the Beats, just very
vaguely, in terms of like what happens in each episode to try
to break the episodes and just discuss them and and, you know,
try to, you know, avoid potholes and and just get them as tightly
broken as we could. And then once we got all the
episodes to that place where we felt like okay in general Know
what happens in each one we were assigned episodes to right,
Simon would kind of try and choose episodes that he felt
like fit the voice of each writer.
And so that was when we kind of went off on our own and like
would write an outline for the episode you were assigned and
then come back to the room, everyone reads our outline,
everyone gives you notes and then you might go back and
revise your outline or you might go back and take those notes and
start writing the script and kind of incorporate people's
thoughts and notes into your First draft of the script, and
it would just kind of go that way, you know, we would draft
the scripts and we'd all read our drafts and try to track
like, oh yeah. Like I wrote this in this like,
this weird thing I came up with. Could you pay this off in your
episode or like oh like I came up with this thing or I had this
idea maybe you could put it in your episode and we would all
just kind of collaborate in that way.
So yeah, it was kind of a little bit of writing on your own in a
corner and a little bit of everybody working together to
try to find the best version of the story.
So yeah. Basically all the episodes
you're getting written at the same time.
Yeah. For warrior known they were
yeah. It was kind of like we would all
get assigned and Simon would be like see you guys in a week
anything comes up we can hop on Zoom talk about it that's like
you would think that would be like really choppy like if it's
everybody's reading a different one all the same time they don't
know what's King before. I mean you can have the Story.
But it's just that blows my mind.
Yeah, it was a little bit wild. I think the only time that that
episodes were written before each other, I think was season
one because Simon wrote The Pilot.
Like I remember we had finally broken broken the first season
and kind of tried to come up with what the show was and said,
Simon's, the showrunner, you know, he's the ultimate voice of
the show and so he like went off to write the pilot and came back
with like the first, you know, episode one Warrior, none
script. And we're just like So this is
what the show is. I gotcha, I see what you're
doing there. I'll see you soon.
Yeah, well our listeners. Absolutely love Warrior none,
that's enough. It's a it is an understatement.
I don't think there's an English word that cap and captures how
much they feel about the show and what was your overall
experience like working on that show from just like season 1 to
season two. Yeah, so like I said, season 1
was my first ever job in entertainment and television
just internal, and it was an amazing experience.
Like, I went into / nervous because, you know, like you hear
all those horror stories about, like, writers rooms, where
everyone's competitive and like mean, and it's terrible and
like, I'm like, maybe 24 years old, like not really knowing
what I'm doing but season, Was amazing.
Like I feel like everyone in that room is so talented.
First of all, but also, you know, me as a staff writer, I
just felt so supported and I kind of felt like I was
surrounded by a lot of mentors who were kind of like, teaching
me the old ways of Television writing which was great.
And just on top of that, you know, we were all so passionate
about telling the story and a lot of that came from Simon, you
know, and the way that he really made sure the room was a really
safe. Place for all of us and and that
we could you know open up and tell stories about our lives and
insert that into the show as much as possible.
So yeah it was incredible and it was a lot of work is really
hard. There was it was intense at
times but sure credible experience.
Yeah, I can imagine. That's so awesome.
So, I have a scene from 107 in particular that I love and It's
when sister Crimson like cheap shots, Beatrice when their
sparring. Yes.
But my the reason I love it is because later on when Beatrice
gets her but there's so much pay off when Beatrice is like owner
later. Yes.
So thanks for that. First of all, you're welcome but
also that was a collaboration between myself.
We hell yeah together and so she wrote she wrote the scene where
the Beatrice got her revenge so just say that's exactly.
Well, tell her cudas so I will but it segues into the question
which episode of warrior. None.
Are you most proud of writing? That's a good question.
I'm proud of all of them. I feel like if I had to choose
one though, it might be 2005 season 2 episode 5 just because
It was a, it was the first episode of TV.
I ever wrote on my own and so it was like the first time real
Simon was like, that's you shall?
I was like, let's go but also I feel like it was it was really
challenging episode to write in a lot of ways.
There were a lot of moving pieces and like the outline of
that episode cooked beets were very vague when we went off to
like actually Ali write the outline and write the script.
And so a lot of it I just kind of came of my own so it's very
much like my episode in a lot of ways.
That's awesome. So I'm really proud of it.
Yeah. So awesome.
Cool. What you did a wonderful job.
So yes you season two was just so phenomenal.
Like we were and you should if you watch our reaction videos we
are like Blown Away the whole time.
Yeah, is insane. I'm going to times where I was
just exhausted, but it was late at night.
It was an understandable. I think thankful.
I'm so glad you guys enjoyed it. I was blown away by season 2 as
well. Because, you know, before it
came out, I hadn't really seen anything outside of like, early
cuds and so, seeing it all together and then seeing seeing
the amazing like actors and what they brought to everything and
like the changes they made on set, which I think elevated.
A lot of what we'd written. Like, it was just I was blown
away too. I was like oh gee it's so much
better than season one and season.
One of those aren't good. We agree line.
Hook it up. Two notches.
Yeah absolutely. And I mean all the gauges to
Surf again has helped just right.
Let me tell you, I was so excited us fying to because we
had been planning like since I think literally since like maybe
the first or second day of the writers room of season one, we
were like, oh yeah. Ava and Beatrice are in game
like we like plan that from the beginning and like, so in season
one came out and all the fans were, like, shipping a vitreous.
We were like, yes. Like this like that if in this
doing into it and and so seeing like how excited everyone was to
like, see the relationship Blossom and season two was just
like, uh, like I'm so glad that the fans like, picked up on
everything that we set up in season one.
So yeah, you guys are really good job.
Actors did a phenomenal job. Uh-oh, they're amazing.
Amazing. Well back to 2005 typically
Camila Camila. Sorry and features have an
interesting Dynamic shift in season two that culminates in an
honest conversation, Episode 205, when Camilla calls out
Beatrice for her feelings for Ava, what factors drove the
dynamic change between Camilla and Beatrice from season one to
season two. It's a good question, you know,
I think I think one thing is that you know In season one.
Like I'm sure you guys have heard the story of the origin of
Camila that like she wasn't even supposed to live past season
one. We created her but we loved her
so much, we wanted to keep her, you know, she's kind of this
Ricky kind of character in season 1 and she has a lot to
prove and, you know, she she wants to be part of the team,
but, you know, she's still learning and she, you know,
she's very much, very much me, I related a lot to Camilla season.
And so I think in season two, we really wanted to like grow her
Arc and sort of deep in her character.
And you know, one way to do that is kind of, you know, to allow
her to have a little bit of friction with Beatrice in
certain ways. You know, like Camilla has
learned a lot since season one, she's been through a lot.
You know, they had this whole fight with Adriel that with
South and since then Camilla and Mother Superior and have been
holding down the fort of the oh, Yes, yes by themselves,
essentially while everyone's in hiding.
And so, you know, I think assuming that Camilla has taken
on more responsibilities and has grown since then, like, all of a
sudden being back under Beatrice is charged with just naturally
caused a little bit of friction because Camilla has grown, and,
and Beatrice has changed you in some ways, and they have to sort
of come to terms with each other again.
And so I think that's a lot of, you know, where where their
growth comes from it in terms of their friendship and their
relationship and Maybe they're Sisterhood throughout the two
seasons but also, you know, in and sees them to our actress for
shotgun, Mary Toya, had some scheduling concerns or, you
know, some some personal things. And so, unfortunately, she
couldn't work with us on season 2.
And so some of Mary's, some of Mary's are some of what we
originally planned for the Mary character, went to Camilla.
And so some of what you're seeing in terms of like Camilla,
Confronting Beatrice about her feelings for Ava, you know, that
was originally a merry seen that that we gave to Camilla, which
honestly, I think it works really well.
Like, I think it's a really like beautiful and delicate scene.
Especially considering the, the friction between them
previously, you know? So yeah.
Yes, that was literally my next question because the first time
I watched that scene and Camilla's lines like the
dialogue. I was like, this sounds like
Mary dialogue because of her like relationship with Shannon
versus like Camila having insight into Warrior done
relationships. Exactly.
Yeah, that that was originally a merry scene and we you know we
wrote it originally to imply that you know Mary and Shannon
clearly clearly were unit and that Mary could see that same
thing and Beatrice and Ava. But also I think it works for
Camilla because I believe it's season 1 episode 8, you know,
Camilla gives the interests and Ava the Or your none book.
Les bitch. You know we call her the ship
captain because of that. Yeah and so it's like come on
clearly knows what she's doing. Like she might be sweet but
she's not that naive, you know, like she she pays attention.
She knows what's happened, girls hot blond, right?
Yeah, exactly. Also, it's a good.
It's a good moment of character growth from season one to season
two because Camilla's becoming independent not the rookie and
like You hauling out her former boss.
Yeah, so it works totally absolutely love that scene for
Camila. Yeah.
Yeah, but great dialogue. Absolutely yes.
I think, I think David Hayter did a little bit of a rewrite on
that scene when it switched to Camilla and it works so well.
So thanks again. Let's go.
Who's a hater out? There are so many good people.
Just tell everyone. We love their writing in their
awesome. Mmm, that's all.
Oh, I know yet. Just let's get all of you on a
group interview call and let's just talk to everybody.
No. Oh wait, show everybody your
mug? Also, please my gosh.
So this was a season one gift from Brendan Gallagher, who was
he was the writers assistant on season one and then a staff
writer in season 2. And he gave one of these to all
of us and I can't, it's a good mug for the people listening at
home, who can't see it. It says, fucks, I give question
mark and then it's a picture of a nun and says None.
And you ending. It's perfect and winking.
Okay. So the scene after Ava Falls
after phasing out of the building during the Mother
Superior and Company rescue was freaking heart-wrenching because
Beatrice thinks that her greatest fear is coming.
True. And that Ava might be dead.
First of all, thank you for nearly breaking our hearts.
Sorry. Curious about the way their
relationship developed and what you all wanted the audience to
feel in that scene. Yeah, no, that's a great
question. I think that, you know, for that
scene, it's a little bit of foreshadowing right for what
happens at the end of the season.
But also, you know, I think this is really one of the first time
Times that for Beatrice, you know, she kind of professes, her
love a little bit too Ava in that moment because she thinks
that she's gone for that, she could lose her.
And so, it's a real turning point for them.
It's a real moment of honesty or the two of them.
And I think that, you know, I think for us, it's kind of the
moment where if you're a viewer, and you haven't been picking up
on the subtleties throughout season 1 and the first part of
these To well like this is like, you know, we're hitting you over
the head with it, like, there's something going on between these
two characters and it's not just friendship, they are not gal.
Pals they are they love each other.
Those people who have hat are definitely not on Twitter.
True, very true. So yeah, we wanted it to be, you
know, especially for Beatrice and you know, she's a person
who's she's had to repress her true self.
Elf and who she really is. And so, you know, for her when
you know, she's pushed to the edge here and she has to let
that part of herself out a little bit.
So it's a tender moment for her really for both of them.
And, you know, for the audience it's showing them like how much
these do care for each other. So, so yeah.
How sofa, where were each of them about these feelings?
Do you think like, how long did each of them know that?
That was a thing? It's a good question.
I mean, I think I think Beatrice has known the longest.
I think that, you know, from maybe from season one, even from
when Ava, first ends up at the OCS when they like capture her
after Jillian, staying, I think Beatrice has some feelings for
Ava that she's trying to let go of, you know, because that's the
whole reason that she's a nun in the first place, right?
Is, you know, she's had to repress that part of herself as
I think, Beatrice know the longest.
I think a Ava like the way I see Ava is she's kind of she's kind
of a puppy like she kind of loves everyone.
Yeah. She's gotten this second chance
at life and she's kind of going through the world and just start
eyes everything around her. And so I don't think that Ava, I
think Ava had feelings for Beatrice but I don't think it
was aware of it or what it meant, or how deep it was until
much later on. Um, and so yeah, I think
Beatrice First. And I think Ava was aware after
the fact because like I know there's that scene in, is it
episode 1? Watch episode?
Is it 2:01 with the where there? She convinces Beatrice to drink
with her and then you have that moment that kind of like slow-mo
moment where Ava's looking at Beatrice dance and she's like,
oh shit. Yeah, I think it was that kind
of first and I feel like I feel like it, I feel like tits Sort
of thing that hits her all at once, you know, vs.
For Beatrice. It's been like, slowly like
simmering within her more like weeks and months on end.
And she's just trying to ignore it.
It was just like, you know what? Actually kind of love you.
I think IDK. Um yeah I'm just saying, I don't
know. I'm pretty I guess that's so
Ava. Yeah, I love it.
I have a question and not that labels matter but for the
podcast, Is Ava bi or pan or I think Ava might be.
I feel like I think of her as kind of pan.
You know, like I feel like she, I feel like she could fall in
love with anyone and, you know, their gender is not really a
factor for her. I think she's just the type of
person who can just see through to everyone's heart, and just
love them where they are. And I think, I think Beatrice is
gay. I think Beatrice is unless fish.
Yeah, we need to update our slogan.
It's not shots for my Jesus anymores.
Yeah, we have, we have clothes pins.
One of them is hydrate for lesbian Jesus.
I love that because from motherland, for Salem, we had
lesbian Jesus in one of the characters.
So then Ava Ava became either bisexual or pansexual Jesus, and
we needed to nail it down. Down.
So, thank you. I think she, I think a Pan II
think, I think you have to ask Simon for the official word, but
write a book can swing in any direction.
I'm glad we're on the right track.
Excellent. Oh yeah, that wasn't the actual
question. I was supposed to ask somebody.
Official question is in 2007, there is a scene with sad Ava
sitting on a queen size bed with two pillows, and we need to know
for science. If Ava and Beatrice were still
sharing a bed at this point, that's a great question.
Um, I cannot answer that question because I believe that
was a decision made on set with the production.
Sure and probably Simon I think who directed that episode.
So you might you might have to ask them but if you ask me like
if you want to know my theory is absolutely.
Yes. I mean, come on, come on.
You can only be there, 95 Fanfictions in that just saying.
I believed you. I've got relatives of a, I just
see I just see them all in my head.
He's headed under my head alone, not in your life.
Once, that's not counting the head very specific number, but
whatever. We just, we had a thing with the
bedroom that they were sharing in Switzerland, because we're
like, this is the gayest room ever.
Number one, we asked her about it.
She was like, I didn't realize it, but I'm glad that we're
like, there was blood everywhere, Barbara, how did you
not know? Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I mean II. And I think they were, I think
they were But that's just me. I don't know.
I'm a cuddler. Come on, lets her.
I feel like one of her love language is, is touch.
Especially since she's definitely is so much of her
like a puppy. You'll she's a puppy.
Exactly. Beatrice pet my hair, please.
I love the puppies. Yes.
Yeah. Perfect little puppy.
Love it. So question, though.
So you wrote three episodes of we're done?
But if you could have like, taken the helm to write a
different episode from see either season one or Season, 22.
Right. Which one would you have picked?
Oh, man. Which one would I have picked?
There's so many good ones. Um, I know it's a hard one.
I think I probably would have liked either season 2.
Episode 4 because I love the church fight you know I love a
good act. Yes it's not answer.
The erotic pastries probably season 1 episode 8 just
because I love I love the gift between Mary and Vincent.
That episode and I love Ava Beatrice reading the warrior
none book together and there's just so much, like, meaty
goodness in that episode of I loved her as promised coming out
in a way. Yeah, like I just think, but
that said, I'm glad I didn't write those episodes because I
feel like the way that they are are perfect and I could, I would
just make it worse. So I think it's great.
But all right, so what do you want?
What would you want to see happen in season 3 if there was
one, there were season 3 mode, I want to see happen.
I mean, I think I love to see what the heck happened to Ava
when she was on the other side with Freya because you know, at
the end of season 2, we find out she's back from glowing sword.
Clearly and so love to catch up with her.
You know, obviously, deepen, the Ava Beatrice story and continue
it in some way. Like, I personally, I would love
for them to get their happily ever after, you know.
And that's not something that's, that would be easy for them to
get. Especially considering the, you
know, there's a literal holy war that's about to occur.
And so, I think it would be Rife with danger and uncertainty and
perhaps friction between the two Of them.
But ultimately, I would love to see them, you know, have their
happy ending and I think also just like see where the other
characters have ended up. Like, personally, I would love
to have a Redemption Arc for Vincent would love to.
I've always been a Vincent apologist.
I don't know. Tell tell her your name before
Vincent. Oh, oh, I call him the not-hot
priest. Like, from fleabag Banner.
That's fair. That's very, very cute pair,
right? I respect that day.
But yeah, a lot of making up. Yes, exactly.
But I just feel like, you know, he's kind of like he's this
person who made a lot of really terrible decisions but he's also
suffered a lot for his decisions you know especially in season 2
and so I would just like to see him like contend with the real
consequences of his choices and maybe like come out of better
human being I think that would be interesting and yeah just
just see what happens to the other.
Chargers, you know, what's going on now?
With the Camilla and that cute boy, she was flirting with them.
And also what happened to her and Mother Superior.
That's our question. Good question.
Very good question questions. That would need to be answered
in season during there are so many questions for season 3.
Yeah. But like, why am I am like, I
am, like blanking on her name? I can only remember her as my
actual name. Yasmin.
Thank you Lena. All I can think of is Mina.
Anyway, I want to know if she joins the OCS that's all I
wanted to know. That's a great question.
I just want more Yasmin. She's great.
We want you worrying it right? I love her.
I love her so much. And you did such a great job
bringing her to like yes because when we wrote her, she was the
only one of the only characters in season two that we wrote and
didn't have a face for for the actor because we haven't Caster
yet. And so like, it was just like
the magic of One almost like seeing her Brink as went to life
was just like, uh, even better than on the page.
Yes. Good old Mina going to see
Lilith back with the others more like that, that was something
that was missing this season. I just like wanted and I
understand why they weren't mmm like working together, but I
just like it when everybody's together.
Yeah. Good great, awesome.
Iris live. Yeah, I want I want Mary back.
Yeah, return of shock and Mary dead.
Yeah, there's no Papi. There's no bugs.
No, she was. She was like, actually, y'all,
it's not for me, it's giving I'm gone.
I think she could come back and see some three and, and, you
know, I would really love to see Beatrice's backstory like for
real. Yeah, thank you.
Me like her parents or see or know what happened and how did
she actually end up in the OCS? And like, you know, what was the
The Catalyst that drove her here.
Like I would just love to know her concrete story.
So totally. Yeah.
I have a theory on. Mary get up.
Whoo. That's good.
This is me coming up with random theories in my head.
It's not an actual Theory. It's just me writing random
shit. Mary is just in the shadows
being like you guys need to learn to fight your own damn
fights. And that's why she isn't there.
She said of cleaning up their messes.
And we respect it. We love that for her period.
He's just chilling. Yeah, just chilling.
Tell it. I can't keep taking care of this
puppy. Yeah, she's like I'm tired.
Okay, I'm older than all of you. I'm actually just gonna go home.
I think I let you guys figured this one out.
I like, we had a whole hike. I had to hike with the puppy
for, like, forever in season, 1. I'm over it, try to potty train,
the puppy didn't really hurt. Yeah, the puppy could get really
aggressive too. Yeah, don't like puppies.
We can talk about Warrior, none forever, but I also want to get
to know you better and our audience will get to know you
better as well. So we have to talk about the
black book that you created. Can you explain what it is and
why it is so important? Yeah, of course.
So I saw the black book is something that I started along
with the wga committee of black writers back in 2019 and like
for context there. Was an action in The Writers
Guild, which by the way was awesome.
Like, we all supported it. We're all of us writers, like,
left our agencies kind of in protest of their packaging
practices which were kind of making them bad fiduciaries,
basically for writers and and you know, it was making them a
lot of money but making us not that much money.
And so we left them in protest during that year.
And so everyone lost their a Gents.
And, you know, there was a concern especially amongst like,
minority writers and LGBT writers and different groups of
writers that like this would be bad for representation, because,
you know, a lot of a lot of Studios, a lot of shows, a lot
of movies, we'll just like, they'll be like, oh, like we
can't we can't find black writers or know that we can't go
to the agencies and ask them for their list of black writers,
because you're all striking. I guess we'll just hire the
Straight white man. Again, you know, like there was
a concern that like that was going to happen with the help of
the committee of black writers in the wga.
I started a list of black writers that we call the black
book and we sort of listed, I think it's over 250 at this
point. Black writers and the GA who are
available for work and various different genres, You Know,
Drama comedy, animation, video games like anything.
Like, you could think of, they all work in those different
mediums. And we spread it around to
different Studios and different people who are hiring to say
like, hey, like, please do not say that you can't find black
writers and it ended up being this really huge thing.
And I was kind of Blown Away by it because Was, you know, it was
just it was something that came up in the committee and I just
came up with a it's just a Google doc like it's really not,
it's really not that complicated.
But people were like, oh my gosh, I like you made the flag
with the guy even got on 30 under 30 for it and I'm just
like it's just it's just it's just a Google.
It's really just the fact that you were like let's do this.
And you had took the initiative to create Something that helped
so many projects and people in a time where this is what was
needed. Yeah.
You should be recognized for it. Thank you.
I am very proud and like to this day writers will message me and
say, like, you know, I just got hired off of someone who found
me on the black book, like, literally that happened like a
couple weeks ago, someone sent me that email.
And so it like warms my heart. That a people still use it, and
be that it's helped so many writers, get jobs, especially
in, especially in this economy. Yeah, no joke.
That's so amazing. So how did it feel to learn you
Forbes 30 under 30 list? That's a big accomplishment.
How did that feel? It's wild, to be honest.
Like, I can. Yeah.
So we're context before the Just came out.
Like I got contacted by one of the editors at Forbes and they
were like, Hey we're considering you for the, the 30 under 30
list. Can you like sent us some more
information about yourself? And I was just like, first of
all, how did you find me? Probably probably not.
It's probably not that hard, but I was just like, who are you
people and it's kind of ironic Because I've always been the
type of person who's like, you know, I hate those kinds of
lists because they just make people feel bad about themselves
and it doesn't matter what age you are like, you like your
accomplishments, still matter, like, ageism is bad.
Like I've always been that person.
And so for me, if I get contacted about, being on the
list, I was just like, oh no this is good.
I'm gonna look like a great like this is crazy but I was like,
you know, they're just considering me like maybe I'm
not gonna be on. And then the day that List came
out like several of my friends were like, oh my God, shall I?
Congratulations, you're on Forbes under 30?
And I was like, what? Because it'll be three months
later and I haven't heard anything back.
So I assumed like, oh, you know, I'm probably, I'm probably not
on the list, no way, but I made list so it was very unexpected
and ironic considering my ageism stance.
But here we are, here we are. Thank you, is cool.
Anyway it comes recognition so well you participated in afi's
writers room ready as a recipient and then went on to
become a mentor yourself. Can you talk a little bit about
that program? That was really cool.
So I believe it was before I graduated like all the writers
in the writing program at AFI can submit like what they Gets
their best TV script. And it's sort of judged by a
bunch of AFI alumni who work in the industry in various ways and
all the scripts are like given points.
And then I think the top five scripts, get chosen for writers
room, ready, where you basically get paired with an AFI, alumni,
mentor to sort of help you in your career just as you're
coming out of school. And so I had originally at
school written, a script called No Quarter for wild beasts.
Tests. Which was kind of based off of
it's based off of the stories of the Black Panthers in Chicago,
in the 60s because my grandpa used to kind of run in those
circles when he was young, tell me stories when I was skin.
So I kind of wrote a little bit of that based off of him and his
life in Chicago. And that script got me writers
from ready, which was amazing. And I got paired with an
incredible mentor. Who work with me all that year
and just gave me really great advice.
Especially like right after I got hired on boy, you're done.
Yeah, I had so many questions and she was there for me.
So thank you very much if you're watching.
Um, and so yeah, then a cup. I think it was a few years
later. One of my old screen writing
professors from AFI reach out to me and was like, Hey you know, I
know that you've benefited from writers room ready.
So we're wondering if you want to do it too and I was like,
Sure, Mom, he's so cool but also wow, I get to be a mentor.
I don't know what I'm gonna say. Like, I hope I can help them.
But um my venti was incredible. Literally like within I think
within a year of us being paired together, she won the
screenwriting Nicholl fellowship and their career has just like
taken off since then. And so I am.
I'm just really honored. Are to be part of the program
and to see both sides of it and to have been able to help a
little bit, you know, my way. So.
Yeah. To watch your little baby.
Go off into the world. Exactly, I mean but you know,
she was talented without me, she did really good questions.
And I was like, I will try to give you my best answers, but
this is a whole, this industry makes no sense, and nothing
matters. And everything's black Actually,
here we go. It's like a game of Whose Line
Is It. Anyway, exactly.
Everything's made up the points. Don't matter.
Exactly. Yeah, well, you basically
answered my question but I'm going to change it and
completely change the topic real quick.
So when I was reading questions, I went through Twitter and the
common theme that I saw was video games.
Yes. And Bri is, our resident video
game expert. So, just wanted to give the time
for you two to geek out about it.
The aura video games. Yeah, pretty much.
No. Went through your Twitter to
because we're those kind of people.
And so, what games have you been playing this year?
I play Everything. Recently, I finished God of War
Ragnarok, which I really enjoyed.
I obviously liked it more than 2018.
I think I need to play again, but I really enjoyed it.
I also played this indie game that came out two years ago, but
I'm late called omori. Oh my God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No that game was crazy.
Like it's so like I think you know, content warning for just
about anything home in that game if you're if you're thinking
about playing it. But it's it's really just a
really powerful experience like I had like full-body Goosebumps
through a lot of that game. Oh, that's amazing.
Um, I've been on I've been on a fortnight kick with my friends.
They're like, have you really got back into Fortnight and I'm
like, okay sure. Let's do that, I guess.
I get in before tonight, every once in a while and I think my
time is coming up because I can kind of feel the need to go
shoot some things but I mostly Destiny main.
Like, I Destiny has been my thing for a long time but so I
just, I mainly just do Destiny in Apex Legends.
So, Apex let's go, I love 8X, I've never played Destiny.
I know that I need to try it, because I have a lot of friends
like you who are like in it, uh, but Apex I love so many facts.
Yeah, I do too. I suck at it, but I love it.
Same a relationship. We should be a terrible
together. Yes, absolutely.
Then I won't feel bad about getting rant like being the bad
person in the random, not the bad person.
Please carry me please. I carry me carried.
Yes, exactly. Well, I don't want to like bore
the aura and I mean, who doesn't want to be carried?
That was relatable. I'm sorry.
Yeah, just a life. You know, this thing, I get two
games is Among Us. And I try to yeah, we try to
play to get, we're trying to get play together.
So we're going to get through or in there someday.
What is fun? I don't know.
Someday. You know but backed writers room
or your none? We were obsessed with this card
game called One Night Ultimate Werewolf, which is basically
like board game among us. We're like someone's the
werewolves and you have to do to it is, we would play that like
almost every Friday after the room, like we would just stay at
the office and play with bigger. That sounds amazing time.
That's like who did it or whatever.
Yeah, yeah that's basically it. Look Gus.
Well, I ask one more question video game related and then we
can move on, but what do you play on?
What's your, what's your plan B? I play on Playstation Xbox PC
switch. I'm like sitting next to my
Playstation five, controller, wrong nice, that's ready for me.
I'm in the PC. Master master race?
Yes. What can you do with PC?
We love peace. Yeah, I do.
All right. Time to time for you guys to
take it back. Alright, so to switch gears a
little bit back into just media as a whole.
So we talk a lot on this podcast about quality representation
like in media and where we are now.
So how do you feel the industry's currently doing with
like providing representation, um, I think there are pros and
cons. I think that, like, in some
ways, in some ways, things have gotten a little bit better.
You're seeing more shows and movies being fronted by women
and by queer people and by people of color on the surface.
But that said I think that we're lacking in terms of a
behind-the-scenes there. Are not a lot of women and queer
people, and people of color telling their own stories.
And on top of that, I think that there is a reluctance in media,
in general, to commit to those stories being told fully.
You know, I think that we see, like, not just with Warrior
none, but you see, like, a lot of shows being canceled, and a
lot of a lot of projects, just not being given a chance.
To Blossom. And so I think that's a big
issue and and also I feel like sometimes the representation is
a little bit generic. Like and I think some of that
stems from again like women and queer people and people of
color, not being able to tell their own stories because it's
often filtered through like a white straight lens.
And and that makes the story feel inauthentic.
And And and maybe even a little bit tokenized.
And so I think while like I said on the surface to an extent like
at least were seeing these different characters and stories
on scream like at, you know, bare minimum, but I just think
that we have such a long way to go in terms of like true
representation and like showing the full breadth of humanity of
these characters because like I said, like when I was growing up
in Kentucky TV and film were Often the only places that I saw
myself mirrored even a little bit.
And like right now, when I think about other kids growing up in
places, looking to see themselves mirrored, I don't
know how many of them are seeing that in an authentic way today
and 2023, which is, which is disturbing.
And so yeah, we have a long way to go.
We've come a long way. We have a long way to do so
Yeah, it feels like we go. We come a long way and then we
regress. And then.
Yep, we have to push forward again.
So it's a, it's a bit frustrating, but you're right.
Like we've come a long way from, like, 17 year old little me and
Arkansas watching Buffy and being like gay people.
Exactly, exactly. We've come a long way from
there. But oh boy.
Let me have a long way to go. And we went backwards a little
bit. Yeah, yeah.
We could talk about that all day, but literally all day,
literally, so thank you for being in the writers room.
Being one of those behind the scenes, people who like, Puts it
through a really valuable lens for other people to see that is
not the straight says white lens, because it's really
tiring. And obviously boring, like, mmm.
It's tiring and it's boring. And you can, you can always tell
like, I feel like, I don't know how it's like, you didn't have
anybody who looked like that in the writers room, did you?
No, not at all. It's so yeah.
So when there is a show that pops up that makes you Really
feel the genuine like, this is a real, these are characters who
are cared for in their queerness and, you know, and everything
that just admit, that's why Warrior.
None grabbed us some grabbed us so much because it showed the
the natural way that it developed the, the care that was
given to it and it was just really helpful.
I think to see someone like Beatrice on-screen reflecting
that back to an audience. So Thank everyone for that.
Thank you guys for embracing her.
Like I just feel like, you know, we we really we really wanted to
make her real all of them all the nuns.
But you know Beatrice specifically with me we wanted
to make her real and and we wanted her to reflect us and so
I think she does and you know when I see her I'm proud of her
I'm like if I was if I was like a little Your girl growing up.
If that was me right now, I would I would feel reflected by
Beatrice. So, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
It talking to her scene about it was like really cool because we
get to see it from her perspective.
And now, we're singing from your perspective and that's what we
really love and like, that's why we're here.
So yay, but yay. I took us off topic, but is
there anything in your writing career?
Like, what's the ultimate accomplishment for you?
Do you think or do you have one like thing I've already
accomplished or thing I want to accomplish, want to accomplish.
Okay, I think that for me, I would love to have my own show
one day, you know, be the Simon very of my own show, that would
be pretty soon, you know? I show you better hush please
we're right there behind you know watch anything you write
periods specially if it's gay. Oh don't worry.
Since I'm the Yang, it'll be good as you know, it certainly
won't be. So I feel like that would be
something that would be incredible and you know behind
the scenes that's At least something my team and I are
working on. And then also, I'd love to work
more in film. I recently had the opportunity
to write a feature with Suzanne Kylie who I work with on where
your none of, which is really exciting.
But I'd love to Branch out more into that and write more films
and maybe even direct one to that in my backpack at Yale.
So, hell, yeah, they're things. Yeah, we're here for that
ambition. Thank you.
Can you talked about it a little bit but do you have anything
currently in the works? Yeah, yeah.
Well I Rejoice I just signed on to to a television show for
Amazon. I don't know if I'm allowed to
say what it is yet so I won't but I signed bug ya up camera
joints, thank you. So I'm working on that and then
like I said, I I wrote a wrote a movie with Suzanne which is
exciting. And I have some other things in
development. I just finished a new pilot that
my team is sitting around so we'll see what happens.
Yeah, yeah. Well let us know and we will
signal boost as much as we can. Anything else.
Thank you. I'm excited.
Heck yeah, well that wraps up the questions that we have for
today, but before we sign off, do you have any final words for
the listeners at home? Well, thank you to the listeners
at home. Um, I know that a lot of you are
probably listening for that sick.
Sweet Warrior, none content. And so I feel like I would just
like to say that you know, myself and and all the writers
on the show like we were blown away and overwhelmed by your
support and by how much you love and connect to the characters in
the story. And just, you know, thank you
for everything like, you guys are amazing and, and And lots of
love to you. I'm making a heart with my
hands. If you're not watching a camera,
it's a heart. I love.
You are my god. Well, thank you again for taking
the time to talk with us. We really appreciate it, and we
loved getting to know you better.
Yes, he said. Thank you for having me.
Yeah. Oh, anytime and come back any
freaking time. You gotta think we can hear them
about other gate content and media together.
Because I am also an expanded, so let's go.
Okay. If you want to come on Eddie
episode. You want to just say we're
getting into it. We're gonna get into A League of
Their Own. We're going to get into
everything else. So I love the League of Their
Own great. It's so good.
It's so maybe you have some perspective on that that you can
see here at some point when we get into it.
So amazing. Maybe we'll see you in the
future and to everyone. At home listening.
Make sure you go check out Warrior known because it's
amazing we you know we love it anyway.
Thank you and see you later. Thank you.
Bye-bye. And with that we've been big gay
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