Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
Welcome back everybody. Today we are talking about
coming out. It's a thing most of us in the
LGBT community. It's a thing most of us in the
LGBT community have to do. And for some of the media helps
them to understand and have the courage to come out, we will be
talking about the scenes that impacted us the most As well as
numerous other scenes and situations represented in TV
shows. Now the our first section is
going to be talking about our own coming out stories.
Joyous reunions cast because we all want to remember this,
right? Mmm, I'd like to point out that
Kaitlyn and I went overtly gay and yours, just like she's a
pervert League. A it's relevant to my section or
it's gay, that is me? Yes, Actually, this is actually
very relevant. Whiskey too.
So anyway free. Would you like to be the first
one to tap into your previous trauma?
No. But sure, wow, Anna traumatize
you three first Caitlin okay but I did bring the murder book
before so I think we're as true Bree has traumatized Caitlin.
Now this is this is Caitlin Caitlin learned about vengeance.
Caitlin's Vengeance Vengeance. All right.
Bri tell us about your trauma. So back in the day before most
of you guys are born. Yep.
Just kidding actually. No.
No, it was my god. There were people that were born
in the 2002. Still rocks.
Me students me for a loop. So yeah, I had no fucking clue.
I was gave or not, was the most obvious thing in the world.
because there was nothing that told me what that was and I
never paid attention to things that other girls or even boys
paid attention to in a in the Romantic Arena shall we say.
So, like with girls are always talking about boys and what
night? I just didn't and I had thing
the things in my life were horses and sports.
That's what I had which in some cases, those two things were the
same. Well hide raise our baby gabri
horse girls and we insert a picture of baby gabri.
Sure, if you want you just have to decide if you want the wanted
me on the horse or the one of me with a my my dad at basketball.
All of the above or the one of me at softball, somebody will
come later and later Somali Caitlyn.
Okay, so, Went through, I'm going to fast forward to fifth
grade because that's when I became fascinated with my fifth
grade teacher. Mrs. Hall, who was a hottie?
Which I didn't know. I was obsessed with her.
I didn't know why. I was super glad that she was
divorced. I just did that.
I was glad she was single. That is my favorite.
That she didn't have a husband, never thought to question, why?
Just just was, I love it. But she was the youngest teacher
that we had. and I think that was also part of it because she
was Even though she wasn't anywhere near an age.
To me, she wasn't obviously apparent tight like the in my
mind, an older person. Yeah.
So she was a little more relatable in that way but and
more crushable. So, No no idea no idea.
So then we're going to fast forward again to high school
because I'm clueless just out there playing softball.
You know and Tennis riding the horses being gay without knowing
it. My senior year of high school.
I so I played like travel ball and I played on the high school
team and I also played league softball and also co-ed
sometimes. So played a lot of softball,
just put it that way. Like literally not and say
you've never late, literally just gonna, I'll just put it out
there. My dad's, the one that cursed
me, because he put a softball in my crib.
There's a picture of you sleeping with a soft ball in my
hand as a baby. I would like that photo as well.
Okay, that's something terrible. All right, so I was always going
to be gay You are blessed by lesbian Jesus at the time.
I was blessed by like a Jesus in the womb.
Thank you. Lesbian, Jesus.
No, but my dad was like my best friend growing up and he was my
softball coach for a while until I got into like higher, you
know, ranking travel ball and that kind of stuff.
But he played softball himself for the Army.
The coach, the girls, the women's team for the Army.
So I spent a lot of time in the Dugout as a kid, Not only did I
play sofa, I sat in the Dugout and was like, Batgirl for the
women's Army team. So like a team of baby gay
dream. Yeah, but I had no idea.
It's funny because someone is relevant because someone that my
dad coached became my PE teacher later on to people.
Exhale, cool. So, two people became my
softball coach in high school and on my skin, In my senior
year, I always wondered my friend.
Natalie never got picked for the softball team.
She was better than some of the girls that got on the team.
Mike, what the hell is this about?
And I'm like, well, maybe they just have a problem with her
attitude or something, cuz she did kind of have a chip on her
shoulder sometimes about things and then I found out why later
on. But I started getting really
close to the new girl that came to the team.
You know where this is going. Oh yeah.
We became best friends. Oh yes.
Every baby gay at some point or another will probably fall in
love with her best friend. Yes, let me let me tell you she
was hot as hell. And she was the new pitcher who
could throw freaking 75 mile an hour fastball which in high
school is the yeah and she wasn't even tall.
So she didn't have like that leverage.
She was a she was pretty shorter than me.
But girl had a freaking guns on her.
Yeah. And so we got really close.
We would ride to practice together.
Hang out after, you know, after practice after school.
Cool, she was younger than me. This is a trend anyway.
Things got to the point where I was like, well this is
interesting like why am I like so into like being around her?
It was like hmmm. No, can't be gay.
And then it was like like back of the day you're just like it
was when we were growing up. When I was growing up, it was
starting to be a thing where people were it was a little more
visible and media and whatnot, but it wasn't really.
At the time it was still so heavily stigmatized that it was,
you know, not something you would see very often.
Hmm. Flashback to when my mom's made
me stop watching The Ellen Show. Uh, yeah.
Yeah, we will the original where she came out.
Yeah, I was hoping, I was just thinking about, I was like,
wait, Bree would probably remember that Bruce Almighty
trauma. Thanks Caitlin.
Owen. No my mom my mom and me stop
watching Ellen sitcom because of her coming out so then we would
just hang out and I would like rub down her arm stuff like
that. Things that catchers do for
pictures. You know what I mean?
But she would say things like it's okay, because she would
take off her shirt look. It's okay.
Cuz you're not gay. And that started me on that
like, thought process. Am I Emma Emma.
Wait a minute. Hold on.
And then, I remember one night I was staying the night at her at
her house and we were just sleeping in the same bed,
obviously. And I just remember thinking I
would really like to like reach out and hold her.
I'm like oh shit that's kind of gay so I'm afraid of like nah
that's it's nothing. Whatever.
So push that the back of my head.
Yeah then graduated high school. We went our separate ways and I
started hanging out with a whole new like some people from high
school. Some people That were older than
me. and, Before I went to college, it was just funny
because there's there's no reason for like why did this
give me the realization? I don't understand.
I was watching TV and there was an all-girl group on that I was
really into at the time. And I'm just saying they're
watching them saying and dance. And I'm just, like her.
Thighs are really attractive. Then I was like, wait a minute.
Okay dream. Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah. It was the blond one.
Yeah. Short hair, blonde one.
Anyway. So that after I realize I was
like huh? Okay.
Well, I was just happy to actually probably accept because
I like knew it, so obviously a little bit consciously but I was
just happy to accept it and then I told a couple of friends and
they were super cool. And then I went to college.
University for those. Outside the u.s.
I guess what university and the girl I was rooming with was from
high school didn't tell her, I was gay because she was super
religious and I was kind of like yeah that's probably not a good
idea. Well, she guessed and said she
was fine with it. And then the next day she
decided to move out his shoes though.
She wasn't comfortable. And then she told our mutual
friends from high school that I had pornography in the room.
Which was not true. I literally had.
Okay. So I was at the time.
I was obsessed with Buffy and Amber Benson in particular as
Tara. And she happened to be on the
cover of a, I think it was FHM which is not at all, it's a
guy's magazine, you know. So she was wearing more clothes
than one would in a bikini and that was apparently the
pornography G. But I don't know if there is
this girl on the outer eye. I think she's still in the same
place. I like, where we where we went
to high school but surprise I have recollected.
Really make a pit stop during Walmart, okay?
I had that in a really high cabinet to so she had to let go
look for it. Oh, that's fun.
Which is duping for your stuff apparently, but she told our
friends from back home and she chose the two people.
She chose were like the dumbest Choice ever.
Because she was telling them in like a, you should probably be
careful type of way and they're like, fuck you.
First of all, we know and secondly, that's terrible of
you. So my friends, I did have some
awesome friends and I like, why would you pick the girl?
That was a rockabilly and warlike bowling shirts and
talked about freaking rockabilly music?
I don't know the Like you pick the alternative girl to tell
like to try to tattle about ganesan, like this dumb.
That is dumb. It's just a dumb move.
Anyway, moving on. They tried to then she and her
best friend, like, got me in a room and said they wanted to
save me. And then I, well know what it
was there like, we're gonna go get ice cream and I'm like,
okay, I'll go because we were still trying to be friends or
whatever, right? And so, it's getting worse.
She I'm about to leave and her best friend steps in front of
me. And he's like, no, no, you stay
behind. I want to talk to you about
something and I'm like, oh Jesus, what now?
It turns out Jesus literally. It was Jesus who sit down and
she's like, I was just really like you to talk to my pastor.
I was like, mmm. All I could do was laugh and
because they had no idea what to say, the idea was was like,
hilarious to me that she was doing this and it was because
she was worried for my soul because of the gayness and the
whole I'm not a Christian, I prescribed to a more
nature-based religion. So she's like, you need to be
saved. Come talk to my pastor.
We need to be saved by lesbian Jesus.
That's right. They've dried hydrate to be 60
lesbian pieces. I the best part was she's like I
think you have a crush on me. So I know it's not the audacity
bitch, why don't know if you wish?
That's what it really is. They do what I said?
Because in my mind I'm like, girl, girl, you wish and also, I
think you were a little gay because she, he think, Yep.
Also everyone in the world. Here are this probably not our
audience. They don't, they don't need to
hear this. If somebody in your life needs
to hear this share this clip with them, go Bree.
Yeah. Just because a girl is gay,
doesn't mean she's into you. That also goes for gay guys.
And straight guys like don't flatter yourself buddy.
Yeah. Just because somebody's gay
doesn't mean they want to Bone the first girl they see she's
Just Not That Into You. He's Just Not That Into You Like
calm UTV's. So, that was fun. lots of lots
of Journeys with Jesus on that campus.
There were three Christian organizations.
That were all pretty. Okay.
So you didn't join a sorority at my University.
You joined whichever route, Christian denomination group.
You were a part of that was the sorority fraternity situation.
That sounds fucking terrible. That are the, like, the, he
Hawk. That's what I call the auto
club. Are you comfortable sharing the
school at all? University of Arkansas?
Oh, yeah. Okay, makes sense.
No, it wasn't not the main campus.
Okay, sounds like it's got. The main campus is, I went to
that. I attended that way.
Later. Different story different story.
Yeah. Meant that make sense.
It was one of the Campuses in the South Arkansas that's
smaller with less like stuff. Because it's a main University
like that would have other like groups on it.
So that that makes sense only reason I went there was
scholarship. Yeah played because I played
tennis and also played tennis and also academic so yeah.
Which I could not focus because of all the turmoil going on in
my brain and lost my academic scholarship.
So But whatever. Hopefully if hopefully the
student loans will go away someday but yeah.
After that, we shall say. My mom had never so my dad, my
father died when I was 18. and it was funny because he was the
only one that picked up on hours that I was gay before I did,
because he asked me if I was when I was 13, He was like, he
didn't say, are you gay? He said, so do you like girls or
something? Uncle Gary.
And it was because I was pontificating on the wonders of
Lilith Fair and Sarah McLachlan. Well, obviously, what else was
he supposed to say to that? Oh my gosh, it is having my know
what your actual guest. And I don't know.
I desperately wanted to go to Lilith Fair.
I don't know what this is. Okay.
Wow. For the young uns, explain with
Lilith Fair is so way back in the day, will say, like what
Late 90s. Yeah, there was a huge music
festival that toured around and it was called the Lilith Fair
and it was a big deal because it was all female lead musicians.
So either groups that were led by women or women artists and it
was a dream. Yeah yeah it was the first time
this has ever been done on like a huge scale like this.
And it was kind of Spearheaded by Sarah McLachlan.
There's your history lesson. Go!
Look it up. The music was great.
The vibe was gay and slicing In the Arms of an Angel.
Yes, she did. It was like the precursor to
Disney's gay days and was straight-up music and it
traveled. Hmm. so that lasted for a couple
of years, at least, but anyway, I was obsessed wanted to go very
badly, but we never did of course, but mmm, after my dad
died, my mom was A little more. Like I was always BFFs with my
dad. And then after he died, my mom
was like, The only parent I had left in my life so it was kind
of a big deal. I never told her that I was gay.
She y'all gon laughs you asses off.
This is how she found out. I, first of all, I didn't really
care if she found out, I just didn't want to tell her yet,
because I knew she was the person that needs time to
process things. So like it's fine if she finds
out and processes, but I don't think I'm ready to just tell her
yet. So my gay ass is obsessed with
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In fan, fiction of Buffy the
Vampire Slayer. So my guess is, we're had
unlimited the ability to print out unlimited Pages at my
campus. Print it out a ton of fan
fiction like. Yeah, very good.
It was summer break. I needed something to read.
Where did your homegirl put /? Hide the fan fiction?
I'm here to muster. I think you're saying like your
mom's desk or something. I didn't have any clothes in it
so it was just the fan fiction. Just piles of it before AO3
existed, guys. And this was back, when you had
to have an actual, this is back in the days of like livejournal.
And when you have to have an actual Forum, sorry, it was like
the websites that like the one back in the day.
The big one was the the kitten, the witches, and the bad
wardrobe for Buffy. And Bree was archiving them in
her dresser. Yeah, already a 03.
Mm, it's a mother flipping tree as you that summer so many
because a lot of them were super long.
Like how fake was this pack of? I mean, there were like three at
least at that time. Three stacks of about this thing
like a textbook? Yeah.
Was that a present? Oh, my gosh.
That I thought even which by the way, one of those books got
published one of those Fanfictions got published as a
book. So it's a really good read.
Still have them. No, I don't know.
I felt like maybe you would keep those.
I mean, my problem is, I've moved too many times.
Yeah, I understand that one. Sure, you do me anyway, so she
found the fanfiction. But why, why did she find it?
Does she open the drawer? Why did she open the drawer to
put something? I just if it's your dresser I
just don't understand why she went into it.
She did my laundry. Okay.
Well that hurt. Laughter, I'm not sure trade-off
for her doing your laundry. No.
You have to understand. My mother is a very, um, she
gets very frustrated easily if you're not doing things, the way
that she would and with my part of my whole leg, ADHD brain is
at him a little bit clumsy, right?
Uh-huh. And so I do and I don't pay
enough attention so I would like mess up the laundry or mess up
the dishes. When I was washing them and she
could Could not stand it, she has that anxiety disorder with a
little bit of OCD. She could not deal with it.
So she would do everything and I would let her because it was
better than her getting upset, right?
So I spent a lot. It's been a lot of my life, kind
of afraid to trigger my mother in that way that makes sense,
which is also a reason I didn't want to tell her straight out.
So, yeah, she found the fanfiction and didn't say a damn
word, didn't say a word to me, not a word.
What she did. Do you ever heard of the band?
Tattoo, of course, the two Russian girl that.
Okay. There were these, there was this
band that this man in Russia, kind of came up with, and you
got to girl wait, hold on for the podcast listeners.
I shook my head. No, I just realized it has to be
odd. Yeah.
Good to you, right? So I'm sure everyone's Heard the
song them their most popular song, they just don't know.
It's tattoo if they didn't know it, but it's all the things she
said. So like all the things she said,
All the Things She Said running through my head.
Yeah, This is our presentation. When we were younger, you have
to understand. Ellen doesn't relate.
She's leaving very good. Timing.
Our representation, like Laura said, back in the early 2000s,
we have like tattoo which was fake gays because they weren't
really gay. Yeah, they were, they were just
kind of pretending to be the gays together to make end to
make money for Russian dude. Yo, and you get famous.
Anyway, Heather, Heather album and my mother.
Got it in the album, sleeve their pictures of them like
being really close and obviously not just friendly.
No explicit like kissing or anything but it was obvious
combined with the fanfiction. And so I came home one day and
my mother had drawn mustaches and like Made them into men.
And I was like, what the fuck is the first?
I thought I was like my sister. Did my sister do that?
So I asked her if she'd only have the one sister, right?
Yeah. Okay.
Then I can see that happening. I was like, what the hell did
you do that? She's like, I don't know what
the hell you're talking about because it didn't seem like I
think my sister would do it. All right, it's not like she
wouldn't give a shit about like she wouldn't touch my stuff.
My sister and I are very odd. We've never had a fight with our
lives. That's amazing though.
I love that. Can't wait to meet her.
Yeah. Well the only other person in
this house is my mother. So it was my mother.
They did it. Well, I guess we're not going to
talk about it and I just let it slide.
Didn't talk about it. Didn't talk about it.
People story only ten years later.
My mom asked my sister about my gosh me being gay and here's why
yeah I came out to my sister and I was like this probably isn't
necessary but I'm just gonna say it and she said, duh.
To make sure that you that we were like crystal clear here.
anyway, my mom asked my sister about me being gay and she's
like like it's not a big deal, whatever, kind of my sister kind
of person. She's not a big.
Let's talk about this for a long time, type of person.
Neither is my mother. So I the conversation was very
short and nothing was resolved. And then my mother called me on
the phone one day and she's basically gets into it.
And says, are you ever going to be straight?
Or do you think that'll ever change?
That's what she said. And I said no.
She was like, hmm. Okay.
And she was not cool, like not cool like at the time she's just
not cool with it. And now my mother gets in fights
with people on Facebook, like my cousin.
Yeah, my cousin sent some slightly homophobic stuff to me
back in the 2016 election cycle and she posted it.
Like publicly on my Facebook. My mom went in there was like,
don't you ever do that to my daughter?
It's like because that's our family.
Like that's your niece that. She just basically told off.
yeah, she's we don't talk about stuff, but if you, if you say
some bad shit about, if you attack me in any way for my
gayness with homophobia, she's not going to let you You know,
she still doesn't understand a lot of stuff about the community
because she's like, 63 and never was around it, right?
Thanks, Hannah. Um, she asked questions from
time to time and tries to understand things and that's the
biggest plus like sluts. I had a relatively mild coming
out Most people accepted me, the ones that didn't make me laugh,
except for the dumb boys that for some reason thought,
throwing rocks was a great idea. Wow, had a lot of interesting
experience like all my first, actual relationship type
experiences were interesting until I met my First real
girlfriend, who was older than me by quite a bit?
Apparently, I had Yeah, was just going for the older women.
Yeah, I dated this girl with schizophrenia and that was very
interesting. So that's pretty much it.
You want to talk about? If you go to Crime, Willow,
comes out to Buffy. See now.
So the the first real Prime Time network.
Gays in a relationship. Well, Willow and Tara.
On Buffy which I believe the series came out in 97 first.
Yeah, this wasn't until season 4.
When Willow met Tara in come on, how gay is this?
Oh, College in a in a which group Wicca group it's okay?
Wicca group guys, just let that sink in such they met in Wicca
group and got to know one another and you got to see
little pieces of the of their relationship evolve.
Overtime and then they totally were together.
But Willow wasn't telling anyone until she came out to Buffy.
In a scene that just kind of like I was so obsessed with this
show, you don't even know. These are the first gaze that I
had on TV in a relationship like having real.
They were like touching each other and they kiss.
What they had this sweet romantic moments, like, wasn't
that song in a musical episode. Yeah.
Was it perfect. Absolutely.
Not, because Joss Whedon made it but And it was late 90's early
2000's so that was not perfect representation but it was the
first real representation that I saw on my TV screen and the
scene where will comes out to Buffy and she struggles with it
a little bit, just a little bit, it sound like she rejected her
or anything. She just struggled to get her
mind around the concept, which was something that I was very
familiar with in my coming-out process with Like, I'll say the
the, I guess the funniest coming out was to my friend.
Bernie, who is I've known this man.
For most of my life, he is one of the sweetest people you'll
ever meet. He wanted to date me in high
school or like after high school is in the summer.
Before I went to University. It's, so we hung out a lot and I
didn't know that that was his plan all along was like he
Wanted to ask me out. So we went to Barnes & Noble
because I love bookstores. And he's starting to get up the
gumption to I knew where it was going.
News about to get like asked me out and so I walked into the
lgbtq section of books and said, hey Bernie, I needed to tell you
that this is my section and like event.
Oh, and did a Vanna White of the bust of the Slime and he had no
idea what else he was, what what do you mean, like, I didn't eat
dawned on him and he was And I want really, really, really
wanted to say boy you gay as hell too.
So it's just like, give it up. But he wasn't ready to come to
that conclusion himself. So and that's something you can
never decide for someone or Push on someone because you don't
know. At the end of the day, what
their journey is. But yes, if he figured it out,
you know, if you figured it out at all, he gaze.
Hello Grove. I don't know if that boy, the
Boy Works in. I don't know, just came over for
he gay. Okay.
Um, yeah, he can't, he came to that realization.
We were because we went to the same University. hung out a lot
and only and he finally was like, okay, I'm gay anyway.
yeah, so that was that time period where I was obsessed with
this with the show and it's funny that fanfiction of that
couple led me to But my mother to find out I was gay.
So it was all revolved around Buffy.
Yeah, definitely sounds like it. Oh no.
Yeah so first time we ever got to see like the queer ladies on
the television in a real relationship.
So At least there was that. I'm glad we got to know you a
lot better. Yeah.
Keep her sharing break. Everyone hydrate for Breeze
coming out journey and loves me. Jesus.
But I'm curious. Now we get bits and pieces.
Hold on, hold on. I have one more thing to add, I
forgot. Okay she's excited.
I don't know how the fuck I forgot this.
I even did the set up for it. What is it?
So you remember how I said that the women two of the women, my
dad coached we're going to be catches later in high school.
They were the coach and assistant coach of my high
school, softball team. And When I was in that cold
questioning period And I was like, yeah, I don't know.
Like what is this, what does it actually mean?
One of the girls said something about On my friend.
Natalie and she so my coach said, Oh, They'll Never Be a
lesbian on this team. Oh yeah, don't get kicked off
immediately if they if I know they're lesbian.
So I'm gonna be honest with you that push me my eyes way back in
the in the okay. Well I can't be gay.
Then softball is like my sports were my life.
Can't be gay. Can't play sports if I'm gay
right. Spoiler alert.
Every single person was gay. Actually.
I was the only my me and my best friend.
Who, by the way, the one that I was totally in love, with came
out as bisexual later. Yeah, we were the only, we were
the only queers on the team. That's why Wild.
Yeah. But that's a fucked up thing to
tell a young? Yeah, you're all playing sports.
That's so fun. And I really think that it was
because of my coaches sussed out everyone that they thought could
be. Potentially gay, I guess I
wasn't gay enough to get not included in the team.
I mean, based on your stories or they blind, like what is wrong?
Natalie must have been so gay. It was blinding and to them.
Yeah, no, she was open. She was completely.
Okay. Okay.
There we go. Now in proud.
Well, good for her, I hurt. Yeah, she's a hard thing in like
1998, in Arkansas. We need to find Natalie.
I can do it. I know you can't kinding can
wait anyway. That was that was all.
Um, so yeah. Reason I got that stuck with me
forever. It's still like, it doesn't
sound like something that's super traumatizing, but it's
still like, when you're like, seven sixteen Seventeen that
shit gets you, man. No, that we don't realize it
does. Yeah.
That is totally awful. Yeah.
And I also like, goddamn, we should have sued her ass.
It's cool. Anyway, moving on, I'm sorry,
Caitlin. What were you saying?
I was saying that we now know you a whole hell of a lot
better. Yeah.
But, and we've been getting to know, Theo are a little more.
Well, I and our entire audience plus free once you know more
about the aura and her journey to where she is now Caitlin to
say until they are announced. And we want to know or like
somebody invitation who's like and now your Feature
Presentation Laura and her journey in.
This is my frickin First Time episode and I'm working on it
and I don't know segues. We've learned this very early on
Yankee are no answer is a compliment that.
Yeah, definitely, that's great. It's soothing.
Wait for it. Also, people say that the aura
has an MPR voice I can say we are is just so freaking
well-spoken that I'm just like all that her top.
She's got it. I have lots of practice
professionally. Okay.
So my journey is kind of similar to Breeze.
I was also a spy Okay, so I guess we'll start from the
beginning of things. You look back in hindsight and
you're just like, wow, that was the gayest.
What was I doing? All right.
So I had a similar relationship with sports.
I will get to why I'm wearing this t-shirt.
My High School lacrosse team t-shirt at the end, but let's
start from the beginning. So my parents set me up for
failure from or success. However, you want to look at it.
I will get more into why this was when we talk about A League
of Their Own, but I was brought home from the hospital and a New
York Mets Jersey. So, my first word was ball.
I learned how to play baseball from the minute I could stand.
So my parents are really to blame here.
Hey guys, if you're listening it's all your fault.
Love you. So yeah, Sports was my entire
life so And my coming-out has to do a lot with sports, but before
we get to the sports piece, a little bit about my family.
So I am the oldest child. I have lots of complexes that
come with, that, that are kind of culturally based.
My family is Italian, American like very keeps the old country
alive. We do lots of saints days.
Bribery says a Catholic. I grew up in New York that's
where we immigrated to my literally, my entire family that
isn't in Italy lives there. And so I always it was around my
huge, big family. And so, with being the, I was
the first grandchild for both families.
My mother's side and My Father's Side.
And being the first comes with a lot of expectations and cultural
stuff that comes with that. And so I felt that like my
entire life. So there was expectations for me
too. Get married have kids.
Marry an Italian guy? Keep that blood my.
Yeah, that's a whole separate thing if that mindset, but that
was the expectation, go all the way through.
Catechism School get confirmed, be a good Christian, all that
stuff. That was the expectation.
That was kind of set on me. And, you know, I never thought
anything of it and, you know, growing up like in New York with
my whole family. I remember at one point my, I
don't remember what was happening, but my, the subject
of like, you know, what do you worried you going to be, when
you grow up kind of thing, I was playing with my cousin, my
cousin, Mike, and like him. And I were like, me and Mike At
me, and three of my cousins are two of.
My cousins are, like, born around the exact same time.
Like they're both September babies, end of September.
I'm beginning of October. So her birthday is around the
same time. Mike's year ahead of me.
And I remember that came up and I was like, oh I'm done.
I'll just live with Mike because like we get along so well and
it'll be super fun and like they were laughing.
I haha, I don't know. You're going to want a different
boy like yeah, that's not gonna happen.
I was like, I don't understand what the fuck you're talking
about. Like we're friends.
Like, I like I understood like male and female friendships as a
kid, but like I was always like that.
So that's a weird comment. Those adult sent to me but yeah.
Okay. When I was eight years old my
father got a job in Florida and so me, my parents, my brother
moved away from my entire family and moved to Florida and that
came with its own set of fucked up.
Shit, the company my dad was moved for was a shell
corporation, which we didn't know.
So Florida has no taxes. So they move the business there.
The minute we got there. Bankrupted the whole thing I
left for France. So, So we had a new house, a
mortgage, or in debt, and there's no job and we have no
family and support system. So my childhood is very, very
weird but my dad is one of my like people that I admire he has
his flaws like any human being, but he never gave up and he was
always my role model. And the thing that we bonded
over the most was Sports. So like sports was like all I
had. Like when I move we literally
had nothing and my dad did everything he could to keep me
in sports and I owe him forever for that.
And so away from my family like the grandmothers and like, all
these people who had this like the cultural trauma that they
were trying to like shove on me was kind of gone and that was a
good thing because it allowed me to kind of become my own person,
but now I'm in the South and I lived in a fairly nice town in
this but across the highway like the end of my community.
You literally Would cross a highway in your over and literal
redneck territory. And I remember growing up there
was a story about a gay kid that was brutally murdered by kids in
the redneck kids, and hung, and all horrible.
It was horrible. So, that traumatize me when I
was like, processing media, and when I finally came to accept
what I was, I was like, why can't tell anybody they're gonna
fucking kill me. Like, that's a very real
possibility. And for me, I didn't have
representation in media. And the reason I'm so passionate
about it. Now as I feel like if I had, not
only would like it, be normal for just like people that don't
go through this to just be like, yeah, okay, whatever.
Now people know who Ellen is Ellen DeGeneres is a household
name now and people are like oh yeah whatever it sounds like
she's funny like they see her as other things besides like she's
a lesbian So, that was not the era in which I grew up in.
Like I didn't know what being gay was, I was never exposed to
the word, the concept. Nothing I just knew I was
different in some way and I knew That I wasn't going to meet
these expectations that were set in front of me.
Like I just knew it. I just didn't know why.
And like, as a kid, I watched things like I watched Xena, like
my mom was really into mythology and things like that, so I watch
Xena. But like, I didn't connect the
gay shit that was happening in Xena.
Because like I was confused by like the 1990s subtext that was
happening. Like I did not resonate with me
the way, like looking at it. Now I'm like, wow, that was the
gayest. But like I didn't, it didn't the
thing that got me was like, was seen as a badass.
That was all I got from that. I was like cool, like women can
be badasses. Like that was the big takeaway
for me but like the gay thing didn't connect, I just knew I
was different. And the thing that really like
made me start the Journey of like looking deeper as to like,
why that is like what is the root cause of this was Disney's
Mulan. That's actually what started my
journey. Because up until that movie, I
just always remember when I would identify with the
character in a piece of media. It was usually the male
protagonist because the male protagonist usually had like
goals and wanted to be somebody and like got to go on adventures
and like live a life that was fulfilling and the women
characters were just like their to marry the dude.
And I was like, that's that does not resonate with me.
I don't know why but I don't want that, I want to do what
he's doing and later. I was like, I also want the
girl, I realized that later, but just these Milan is the thing
that really started my trajectory because it was had a
female protagonist that was like Xena.
She was a badass. And she had goals and like
defied her family's expectations.
So I like really resonated with Juan and her journey and the
piece that really got me to start.
My self-reflection was the song Reflections in move on, and it's
still something that makes me cry to this day because it just
struck a deep chord where she singing the line, like, who is
that? Girl, I see like staring back at
me like Like, I felt that I'm like the way people perceive me
in the way. I see myself.
I'm like that. I'm somebody else inside.
Like, who am I inside? Like, I don't feel like this
matches with me as I went through this whole journey of
like am I a trans person? Like what is going on?
I mean, I don't feel like I'm me because it's kind of like you
want stories a little bit but then it clicked later when I was
really looking back about like why I feel a certain way when I
watch media that's mostly the male protagonist and I was like,
I want to Be that guy and like live his life or he gets the
wife and like lives. And I was like, okay, and then I
started looking back and I was like, okay, so all these
neighborhood girls that play sports, that I have.
I'm afraid of like, I was afraid of some of these women because
they, I thought they were attractive and I didn't know
that at the time. I'm just like there's something
about them and I can't, I can't be around them because I feel
weird and I was like, I have crushes on them.
This is okay. And I was like, Ellen, the
baseball stuff. Yeah, that was that was Okay,
and so like I put it all together and I'm like, okay so
I'm a lesbian, that's what this is.
That's what this is and around the time I was kind of like on
this journey, Ellen came out and that was a huge deal because,
like, finally, somebody had the fucking ovaries to do it and put
it out there like, hey, gay people exist, and they just want
normal lives. It's not that big of a deal.
But I come from a religious family and I was like, oh, this
is fucking terrifying and fuck. Like, I might lose my family
over the like, all of them and that's terrifying coming from a
culture background where it's like, family is everything.
So it's like, cool that might be something I have to sacrifice,
or I live a lie. Like that's the choice and I, or
I might get killed to kill himself.
So I was wrestling that with this review Li long time and
then, and then I went to high school, and in my junior year of
high school was kind of when things started to change, my
junior year of high school, I played varsity lacrosse, and
that was playing lacrosse was the best thing that ever
happened to me. That's when I found my people,
my crazy. We, there's a weird sport,
nobody, what the fuck it was at the fair.
At the time, I was playing, it was a new sport to Florida, so
the people who are playing it weird.
Weirdos. You guys know who you are?
And yes it's true. And so it was like we were
Pioneers. So it was like, very fun, the
people that were there wanted to be there was before it got to be
super competitive and crazy and all that stuff.
The way soccer was like I love soccer player cross because the
cross is more fun, the people were more fun. and so, I Really
started bonding with a lot of them.
And this is the first time since I moved from New York.
That I actually had a friend group that was real.
It was legit and they really liked accepted me and like liked
me outside of my abilities for playing sports like longest
time. Like my friendships were just
sports-based and it was based on ability.
So like my drive is always be really good so that people would
like me for that. But here like I actually had
friends at like didn't really think they liked that part, but
they're really good. Hello, this is your fun too.
So In junior year, one of my, that's when people were turning
16 and getting cars, and one of my teammates.
And I'm still friends with today, who lives down the street
dish, for me, got her own car and was like, I'll drive you to
school so you don't have to like, I don't know.
My mom is driving me and she's like Fuck you and I'll drive you
know our so I was like cool. Yeah, baby and my friend, my
friend lies, I shout out to you. You're not listening this
podcast but anyway, she Was it the same situation?
She has Italian family, Italian parents.
They're from Jersey, we have very similar kind of cultural
stuff Jersey. Yeah, - from Jersey so we make
fun of each other because we're from different states that hate
each other for. I don't know why, because people
are dumb North Jersey. I don't remember where exactly
in Jersey is important. I don't remember.
I'm sorry, I can ask Liza later. Okay.
Anyway, so Liza was Friends with a lot of gay guys and with proud
of that, and like, her family was cool with it and all this
stuff and she would always brag about how she's like, yeah, all
the gay guys love me like this. In that, like, we're best
friends and, like, all the stuff, and my mom loves him and
stuff. And I'm like, okay.
Like this is a situation where like, Catholics all this stuff
like and no one is getting ostracize and like, it's
actually pretty good. So I was like okay like and the
way Liza would talk and I was like, maybe this is somebody.
I could tell and like trial this out on before we get to the
parents. And so I thought about it and
then one time I was gonna do it and then she made some comment
that sounded homophobic to me and doesn't lesbo phobic not
homophobic and I was like, oh no that's not, Maybe not, maybe
not, maybe it's okay with gay guys and that woman's, I put it
off for a bit and junior year at the end of lacrosse season.
I was I actually I tried out for a team and it was like a travel
tournament team and I made alternate So I went with a
friend of mine and this other girl was on the team one of the
goalies. It's always wise she.
Um, she was like trying out too. And she was from a, this is like
the tryouts piece and she was from like a rival School in our
area and she was out like an outlet straight up.
But like you look at her she's a hundred foot or you're like yeah
she was super out and so And she was really hot and I was just
like, okay, wait a minute. So this is possible to like be
gay and be out right now and like she lives near where I
live. No one has murdered her all of
this stuff, like I was, and then it became like a possibility.
So I Kaitlyn Caitlin's like enough of your story, I'm
leaving. But like for me so I didn't I
didn't have media representation.
I had people in real life where I was like okay if this is
possible for you then this is possible for me and like I
became friends with her and stuff and that was like the last
thing where I'm like okay I was going to originally wait till
college and be like it'll be different, they don't know me.
They're so like if it goes badly, who cares?
I know these people and I have tethers to them now.
So if it goes badly that could be more devastating.
So then I was lost around like she can do it.
I can do it. And like I developed a crush on
this girl and I was like, okay this is a problem, but it also
it also could be real. So like maybe it's worth doing.
So then later that summer, I was hanging out with my other friend
on the lacrosse team. There's like a couple of us that
were like, the whole team is caused by.
Like Kabul of us were like really, really close.
And I remember I was driving in the car with her and something
about crushes came up and I told her, I was like, I like this
girl. And she was like, yeah.
Okay cool. Yeah.
And then I was like, okay that went really well and then I was
like, I told her, I was like wow I was going to tell Liza and
this and that but then like I did it.
You're the first person I've ever told and her response was
well, okay, we figured a new anyway and we're going to like
Have an intervention. Oh no!
This is even better. I love them forever for this.
Actually, I was with all of them when I told him this.
That's that's right. This is what the couple of days
with and this is like yeah. She's like we were gonna
actually try to hit on you and see what you do.
And I told them I wouldn't have done anything because you're my
friends and I'd be horrified. I would never to this day.
Liza will not let me live down the word horrified.
She's like, you'd be horrified to date me.
Oh my gosh. So, we're Choice.
The aura. Well, like, because I don't know
for me. Like when you're closeted and
you understand that and your you, make sure you relate to
this you, and when you're in, Gym class and in locker rooms
and it's super-awkward you have to, like, change with other
women. And so, you're just like, wow.
I they can't like, I'm not into any of you, but you can't think
for even a second that I'm into you.
So, it's very like, blinders on. Like, I'm changing really fast
getting the fuck outta here because I don't want you to feel
uncomfortable. So, like, for me, I understood
the separation of female friendships versus romantic
interest. Like, and I was very much, like,
I don't want you to get the wrong idea at all, because then
that would be Be weird like your situation where they're like you
like me and you can't like me and it's like no, no, like no.
My friends were like, fuck. You have dare you.
They were insulted that I wasn't into them those are my friends.
So needless to say I told them and then I told their parents
and I was very just out, I was out for my senior year of high
school. I was like, fuck it like it's my
last year. I'm leaving this town, after
this, I'm going to be me, I don't care anymore.
And I was it I was out at 16 for my senior high school which is a
clusterfuck for different reasons book but on your senior
at 16. Yes because I started schooling
in New York and you started kindergarten at like 4:00 I was
in kindergarten or damn I was Okay.
Continue. Yeah, I started college at 17.
Me too. Yeah, I was 16 Senior High
School. I never got bullied.
I am not that I know of and not for that.
I never got bullied for that. I never had really a bad
reaction from people but then it was like parents time.
And so I still was like, debating what to do about that?
And we were coming up to like senior prom and I had like a
girl date to go with and I was like, I don't know how to
approach this. Yes.
And then it technology intervened on my behalf and
Caitlin knows the story, because she probably has a yesterday.
I forgot about this, I'm glad you're telling it, you can thank
Caitlin for this so the parents I never told any of, I never
told my parents, the way my parents found out it was that we
had a faulty printer in my house and this is like, and this was
back in the day, there were no. Okay, like the first iPhone was
being developed at this time like didn't exist yet.
I was the next year so there's no such phone app.
No know if you wanted to use social media how to use a
computer. And the computer printed my
MySpace page, which said I was getting, I was out to everybody
except my parents, my mom found it and was like, came to me, I
was like, what the hell is this? And I was like, I'm like, well,
it's mine. And I was terrified.
I was like, I don't know. And I was both basically mad
that like I didn't tell her. She's like why don't you tell
me? She's like, I knew since you
were eight, she's like, yeah, like she was disappointed
because, like, to to her, that was confirmation of no grandkids
know, like, the things that she is was expecting in her life
that I would give her through our social contract and, you
know, Italian Heritage kind of thing.
But she was like, yeah, I figured when you were 8 you were
never talked about boys. Like, Obviously you're a gay.
Let me look at you eight-year-old Fiora.
I mean, me and senior in high school was super gay.
Like I was thinking last, okay, I do.
There needs to be a photo of that to.
I'm sure there any all the photos take up the mind.
It. Oh my gosh.
Yes. The mice like this should
probably explain to my spaces for oh yeah.
If you don't if you don't know what that is it's basically the
One of the first social media. Yeah, sites.
It was like the precursor to Facebook because like I remember
Facebook when it was you had to have a ecology University, email
address. That's when I first got a
Facebook was, when I was like in University and like my lacrosse
friends in college or like you can get one now.
Go get one. Like you have the email address.
So Myspace was like the precursor that I was basically
like Facebook, but better because you can like customize
it way more and a songs and like, change the background.
It was like a beta Facebook, basically.
And so everybody at that period of time when I was graduating
high school, use that. So, yeah, but my mom was mad
that I didn't tell her and she's like, you're telling your father
and I was like, no not and I never told them.
We never have had this conversation ever.
I'm married to a woman at this. I never can touch my dad, but my
mom was like, I'm pretty sure he'll be relieved anyway,
because one of his greatest. Fears was you bringing home a
boy? I was like our great.
No more fears for you. So and now he watches, he
watched motherland. I make him.
Watch everything, that's gay. I'm like a watch killing me from
like a watch motherland. How did he find out?
Did your mom tell I assume? So, we've never talked about it.
I think she had to tell him, so I was fucked up for me for Put
her in that position. But I mean he could have just
not worry, baby, probably just gave him the, my supposed to be.
Yeah, just like here, I don't know.
And then I don't remember what your daughter did.
I'll look watch her daughter. She didn't tell us, and I don't
remember my brother, like how he found out.
But my brother is like now, like the post liberal man ever.
So, like he didn't obviously care.
So it turned out fine. The things were things, got
dicey for me was my older relatives So my mom was like,
just don't tell your grandma. Don't tell the New York
relatives for now. Like, I've we're fine with it.
But like don't tell them because they're more old-fashioned, and
I was like, okay, yeah, that's fine.
We don't see them often. I'm like they're not on MySpace
like it's nice to like my aunt's new there.
My mind, you know, don't tell the grandparents and I was like,
okay. Didn't have to tell one of them
because she passed away, but then came time when I was
getting married and I was like guys until now because it's a
little too late. So my that was the time it was
like after Obama had been elected.
And the only reason I'm bringing this up is because basically my
mom was like my dad voted for Obama.
I wish. I never thought he would do and
so he maybe he's more open minded and he was would get that
point. So it was like really that went
well, Hey, and my, my paternal grandmother who I hope is not
listening those podcast. I knew she was gonna be the
harder one because she's extremely religious to a fault.
I'm in my opinion, I won't get into her life but that is my
opinion. So basically I told her because
we were my wife and I got married in Italy.
We had a very small ceremony but we were doing like a party in
America before we went for like anybody who wanted to go.
Sorry to call my grandmother and be like, I'm getting married and
she's like, whoa, and I was like to a woman she's like, oh, I was
like, mmm. So there's the bad reaction.
But, at this point, I had Decades of experience decade of
experience dealing with this. And was just like, listen, I
understand you were religious and may have certain feelings
about this. I am inviting you out of
courtesy. If you're not comfortable with
this, I don't want you there. Like, don't come.
I don't want you to come think about it.
Like it's up to you. You but like this is what's
happening like I'm gay. It's not changing deal with that
head as you will like. It is what it is kind of in here
from her and then we got a wedding present from her in the
mail and my parents don't know about this but I recently told
my brother so I forgot it happen and we got a card in the mail.
And our wedding present from her was a donation for a prayer to
Saint Anthony. Oh God.
Do you know the st. Anthony is your Saint Anthony.
Please come around. So Saint Anthony is the patrons
patron, saint of lost souls. That's what it.
My mom just made me do that whenever I lost something.
So I could find it in the house. I'm like, all right, whatever
I'll do it. So that was my wedding present
for my grandmother. That is awfully.
My wife is never met her and that was the first interaction
they had was this I was so wildly offended by this.
Yeah, so that was my grandma and it's, yeah, I have issues with
religion and this topic and yeah, I think that was extremely
fucked up and when people say, oh, I'm doing this to save you
like you're not, you're traumatizing people in the name
of righteousness because you think you're right, and we're
wrong, and it's keeping a. So, you're hubristic enough to
pass on your religious, Rama to me.
Yeah, and yeah, I have a lot of religious Trauma from this and
grappling with this and deconstructing religion from my
life and Yeah, that was the one bad reaction that I have and me
and my grandmother do not have the same relationship we ever
had because of because of that and that is a divide.
But for me, if you're toxic and going to view us that way, then
I don't engage with my grandmother.
If I don't have to because it's not worth it.
What did you do when you got it? I was pissed.
I think I tore it up. Also.
I was like, what a fucking waste of money because yeah, I don't
believe. In this.
So this helps no one accepts. You think you did a, right, a
good thing. I was pissed off.
I was like, this is fucking ridiculous.
This adventures in driving distance.
To me, give me an address. She'll be so confused.
She's asleep. She's almost 90.
So, I don't think it's worth. It's not worth it.
Who's this screaming, young woman that showed up on my
doorstep, gonna send my uncle's out there.
Italian watch out. But I was mostly I was mostly I
was embarrassed by it. I was like My, this is my wife's
introduction to our faith. My family.
It's this like that is so embarrassing and just wildly
offensive that was like that. You're offending.
Both of us in like you don't even know her.
That pissed me off so much. I forgot about it until like it
came. I like Julia.
Brought it up. I don't think I forgot she
fucking did that. And my brothers, like, did you
tell Dad? Because it's, that's his mom.
And I was like, no, my dad would lose his shit.
But yeah, I didn't tell them nothing.
You guys guys. This is a true story.
Yeah, I feel bad for this. Julie do when you I'm assuming
you got it and you told her I showed it to her, we open it
together and I'm just like Yeah, that's my grandma for him and
that's the toxic toxic religion. I just can't with it, keep it to
yourself. So now that was my journey.
I don't know. I kind of feel like people who I
kind of feel like the people like that that are super
misguided and not real Christians.
Oh no. People I think hide behind their
religion because they're not perfect.
And so in a society that says you have to be perfect otherwise
you're worthless and you know you you know it's your fault if
you fail or if you fall behind if something bad happens to you
that's all we live in a society of just victim-blaming And so
people are just incentivized to hide shit and that's themes.
We'll talk about later. You're just incentivised to lie
and hide so that people have the perception that oh, you're a,
you're a good girl, you're perfect like, you know, you
don't say bad words or like disgrace the Lord and all that
stuff. It's all bullshit.
We're all playing this game so that everybody thinks we're
perfect when it doesn't even exist, it's ridiculous.
And so we just At eyes each other and by like looking down
on others like you elevate and status and it's just horrible
what we do to each other. So, but like, the good thing is
like, for me, I found a community of people my lacrosse
friends, that became like a second family to me and they
were the ones that were supportive defended me.
Like, I think they're a big reason I didn't get bullied in
school by people who thought others because I was with them
and like so Community can be a good thing or a bad thing and
it's just unfortunately that's that's life and it's not unique
to coming out but unfortunately it can be very heavily entwined
with that process. Hydrate for the out gay
lacrosse, lady. Whoo, I finished all my
hydration for Natalie. I mean, Natalie deserves it.
I really want to tell you her last name was but because it's
funny tell us after. Yeah, yeah.
I want to meet Natalie and Liza. Oh, you brought me my, the Super
Bowl? I would love to me.
Why is this the best? Oh, my Lacrosse.
Mens are the best I just keep going to say Minnelli.
Yeah, she got that a lot. Sure.
She did her never say that to her face.
Her dad also looks like Eugene Levy so we used to call him
really? He does.
He does Ali. He does.
It's really funny. It's very sweet to see people.
Well, I'm glad that you came out and you didn't get murdered me
too. Yeah.
Yeah, that was scary. I'm sure was dramatic in guards.
But yeah. Now you're with Julie and you
have two dogs and you guys are adorable.
Thank you. Thank you.
It worked out. But I always wonder like, you
know, what would my journey have been like, if I had exposure to
this, if this was normalized and I knew it was an option.
I feel like I've gone through a lot of the things.
Yeah. Are like, I would have figured
this Out sooner and I wouldn't have liked beat myself up so
much. And you know just anything is
like if it's going to happen, it's going to happen.
Like you can't stop it, it's just you can delay it but I'm
very happy for people now who have access to like
representation that shows 0 that is an option.
Maybe I am like that person like you know, it just it helps to
see it. Like it didn't dawn on me until
I saw people in real life and I was like oh That makes sense for
me. You know it's unfortunate that
we didn't have a one day at a time or a.
Yeah, seriously. So I'm happy for people that
have that house area ironic. I know.
Speaking of which Caitlin what was your journey like, really?
It was that your Segway All right, on a Segway but I don't
think I don't think she did that on purpose.
Well done no I did but oh sorry I had to good acting.
I love the two of you so much. We love getting late.
This is when I just talked about how much I love Brian thing.
What first, how about you tell us about coming out?
Well, I didn't think I had that much of a story and then I
thought of things what you guys were talking, but the first
story I get told so much by my mother is, I believe it was
preschool. It wasn't a preschool or
kindergarten. But I went to Catholic
preschools Catholic kindergarten Elementary School, All of that.
I don't remember anything. At all, I failed religion every
single year, but that's another story.
But there is this guy and apparently he went to hug me and
I just pushed him and shoved him to the ground.
She's like, no, no boys and I think that cabbage.
She also tried to kiss me on the bus.
Yeah, well I don't fuck, I don't know.
But my mom really thought we were gonna end up together.
Like that's all I heard when I was like very little was, this
was enough time for mild, right? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
picturing a priest. Never mind.
No, no. It's a Catholic school, man.
You're thinking priest? And I'm like, usually in
Catholic School. Like they segregate, boys and
girls so I was confused. So sorry.
I so I we were never SEC. Okay.
Sorry my brain.
You I bet this kid grew up and is now in jail.
Oh my God, breathe. He's got the dark brain.
Actually, I would love to know where he ended up.
I should look him up. She was gonna say the full name
because the full name is like, it's all I heard when I was
younger but I don't think I should actually.
So I'm not that's not out people.
Yes. I've no idea where this kid
ended up. But yeah.
So that was my first experience. My mom was always like God, you
almost had the name again. Like, I think he likes you and
all that. I don't like it.
No, no, just no. And he was basically my best
friend. I had only guy friends went out,
okay. So looking back, I had like
weird obsessions with girls. Like I really wanted to be their
best friend so I thought But like I was actually friends with
dudes. So the first dude who try to hug
me and I slapped them. Basically, we were actually
friends, I was like, no, but I'll be your friend.
And then my other friend Dylan, we were very close and I think
of anything like I use just my friend and of course like other
people's brains and neatly, put boys and girls together.
Like, they're so young. Why would you even think that I
slept over at his house? So much and I slept in his room
and we didn't understand why we couldn't sleep in the same bed.
You were so confused. We're like, why can't you just
like there's enough room? And his parents were just like
she's not allowed to sleep in your R bed.
And I'm like, what the hell? So if I didn't understand
obviously, I'm just like, he's just my like, brother, right?
But there was a girl named Gabrielle, who I was obsessed
with and I realized how obsessed that was with her.
But she I met her in preschool and then we not going to the
same school when we had to move schools and was just a weird
coincidence and Yeah, man, that was the first one.
There was a lot more that I just thought.
I just wanted to be their friend, I still don't know.
Fully. But like all I know is there was
a weird Obsession and non creepy creepy way, maybe just one
creepy just not cool. It's not creepy.
That's normal. It's called having a crush.
I'm having a crush. Yeah, and I don't I don't
remember much. Like I don't remember thinking
about any of this. And sixth grade.
I've no wait. Hold on.
Because the way I wrote this, Oh, I didn't put enough space
between the words, okay, but that's later, but in sixth
grade, I was on the bus and these kids kept asking,
everybody are you gay, are you gay?
And then people would obviously say no and they're like, oh so
you like girls. I'm like, what the hell?
I just said, I'm not gay. And they're like, you're gay.
If you like guys. In general, the kids are
confused. Yeah, the kids are confused and
I got to take my jacket off because this this whole episode
skin hand here, I get really angry.
Fair her here. Okay, sorry I gotta get
distracted so easily. Okay.
Alright. Anyway, we're he loves to
interrupt the episode by distracting me.
Yes. So yeah, when they ask that on
the bus I was just like so not like a fan of it like so freaked
out. I'm like, no, I'm not getting.
I didn't understand why like I was like so scary to me.
And I also had a friend who was a girl then who was kind of
obsessed with That was another one anyway continuing on.
Let's see what's her one in seventh grade.
No, seventh grade. Okay.
So in the middle of my childhood was a bunch of trauma.
So outside of this, so it kind of got put on hold and it just
comes back every once in a while.
In. Either eighth grade or ninth
grade. There was this girl in school.
And she looked like Aria from Pretty Little Liars.
I like to re I'm Pretty Little Liars.
Okay. Didn't know like didn't
understand that. I could not stop staring at this
girl and I didn't understand why I'm like, I just want to be her
friend, but I can't go up to her.
I can't say any single word to her, reminds me of when I saw
Adelaide Kane in person I could not say a single word to that
woman like cheese. You see her in person?
It's just like, she's pretty, she's very pretty.
It's just like I can't talk to you.
I have nice just like also, she's so gay.
It's like the gay energy is real.
She's uh, she's great, bisexual lady. oh my gosh, I don't even
know my journey here you cuz yeah, I don't think I know a lot
but just because I never I don't remember thinking about it, it's
just little things that I think back on, like I always had
friends who are girls who I would, follow more do whatever
they wanted. I was this close to them and
that friend broke up with me because I moved out of state
there. So I mean that crushed me That
was a really sucky. um, High School.
I did a lot of dance and theater growing up.
So I was always around. Gay men basically because those
are the people who are more out and Yeah, music.
Yeah. Yeah.
But also, I know I'm jumping around.
It's just, I can't. Everything is just so your way,
grunting terristory, Caitlin my family which I forget about all
the time, because Brothers part of it.
But I forget that, I have a brother 3/4, no 7/8 of the time,
he's 13 years old. Older than me.
So we barely had a relationship. But whenever my brother Cousins
and my one Aunt were around. They would always make fun of
gay people like gay men and my brother would use the F-word.
The other f word. And like, put on an act and they
were always talking to rob you. Roget Tori.
No, I'm good. Yeah, derogatorily, yeah,
towards them. So, I was like, okay, so this
isn't something that's good. Like, this is something that is
shameful. Kind of like, they were always
being made fun of by my family and like, I was totally fine
with other people, but I think internally, I'm like, well, my
family would never be okay with this.
Because that's all I heard. So in high school, I had friends
and they were not open minded. I don't know about like the LGBT
community and what their thoughts were.
But there are was this student who was pregnant and they said,
if I ever got pregnant in high school, I would kill myself.
I was like, well, okay, you guys are not open-minded at all.
Like I don't even know what that is. wow, I don't have like At
that time, I was like I was not following anyone.
They all wanted to go to one University.
All study the same thing. And I'm like, no.
And I do I've not talked to them since, let's see.
I don't remember. Thinking about it.
I had to have because People would talk about guys and liking
guys and I listened to the family member.
My mom took custody of talk about all these guys.
I'm like, I don't see it. What is this shirtless?
Dude. Like, why do people like this?
I'm like what are you? But I don't get it.
And I tried like I remember just like staring at somebody and be
like, just you can do it, you can do it and like, just really
focusing and like, can't do it. I just don't like people.
Yeah, damn it. Hi Caitlin.
I'm leaving in the middle of her own story, classic with her
rainbow away message. Yep.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so I so I didn't actively think like, oh, could I be gay?
Maybe like here and there, but I would always hide it, like, just
bury it, be like, oh, let's not think about it.
Then I went to school college and was a way from home for the
first time, 40 minutes away. I barely spent time there, like
I just always went home, but we had to, I wasn't allowed to
commute to school. and I was, Video chatting with my mom.
All of a sudden I start crying. I have no idea where it came
from. Was not thinking about this at
all. I said, I don't know how he
started crying and my moms, like what is wrong like, what's going
on? I had no idea what's gonna come
out of my mouth. I was just like my brain wasn't
even thinking and it was just my mouth.
I was like, I don't know if I'm gay And like, I could barely get
the words out. I don't know, my mom's response
but she was like toy. Like it's okay, like what do you
wear? Why do you think this?
And again, all I remember is crying.
So the next time that she comes to pick me up from school, she's
like so I told my friend I like wonderful.
Oh dear. She's like, because I needed
somebody to talk to ya so she could tell me things.
I'm like, alright. Ma you you do you and Her main
concern was me having kids later and she's like you can still
have kids like you could do like that donor and IVF thing, right?
I'm like yeah Mom that's a thing.
So, she was totally fine, but at meanwhile, I'm still trying to
figure it out. Like this was this is not me
coming out. This is just me being like, I
don't know what's going on again, because I did not know
that that was going to be a conversation.
I was going to have So that was in 20. 16.
Yeah. So yeah, it was struggling
through that for a while. Also obsessed with another girl
at school. Yeah, I went to see this show
every single show. To be fair it was like kind of a
little bit of improv so it was different each time but I made
sure to go to every single show to the point where the main
person like they pick out people in the audience and like she
knew that I was coming every time, so it kind of got weird.
The girl was really cute. I'm just saying.
Hey no judgment, got it. And yeah, definitely, paid
attention. God, I don't think anyone will
listen to this and I don't even think anybody would know who it
was. Because I didn't even sitting
here, ya know. No one cares anyway.
Yeah, so basically a year goes by Of me being tormented with my
thoughts. And then I start watching One
Day at a Time. And I love that show.
I just think it's freakin hilarious.
I love Maria Moreno. Yeah, there's a later because I
was in her presence one time and I was terrified to go up to her.
So I was working in event where she was being honored, and I and
my best friend got my best friend, but he was a friend who
we were working together. She was her like personal like
escort, like she took her everywhere and I'm like, There's
a lot of females looking back, just saying, I'm just gonna
leave it at that. Yes.
But anyway, while watching One Day at a Time, Of course in
season 1 Elena has this whole like journey to try to figure
out who she is. And when she comes out to her
mom, Of course, it was like the mother-daughter.
So at the time it was just, my mom was the only person who knew
show. Obviously, I'd be coming out to
her first anyway, but the way Elena explained how she felt.
I think that hit me so much with I was like, oh, okay.
So this is the same exact feeling that I have.
Maybe I can finally admit it to myself. because, That's the part
that's like I have to keep talking to get myself to
actually dig into it. I had and this is going to come
up again. There's a lot of stories that I
put in through here, but I remember it now.
I didn't want to accept that. I was gay.
Probably mostly because of my family making fun of people and
I've had panic attacks, like, cried myself to sleep because I
was, like, I don't want to be like this, like, why why can't I
be normal? Why can't I just like that,
dude? Because there was also a guy in
college who my mom thought I would end up with.
Got that dude. Want to punch him.
I have a history of punching people, not punching actually.
But like guys, and I just don't mix.
Can you tell with the murderer? That's awesome.
No, that's another person in your family.
We're not going there right now. Anyway, where the hell was I?
Why do I feel like this? I don't want to feel like this.
Yeah. So Alana, let me see. she said
that when she pictures her future, she pictures herself
with a woman, not a man. And growing up, I would picture
my future. And I was like, okay, at first,
it was just like I was alone. So I was like, I don't want kids
and then I realized. Okay, no I do want kids.
So I was like, well to have kids, you have to have like a
partner because but I don't know why I thought that because my
mom was like a single mom and everything.
So, But in what one point, I was like a single mom, but then
there was this person but they were always blurry.
I couldn't see who they are, who they what they would look like?
Like, didn't picture anybody just like this blurry blob?
and as soon as she said that I was it just became clear.
In a way. I was like I could damn it.
No. Everyone else did so well.
You're not going to cry. Okay. like, I could finally see
myself actually being with somebody and I never thought I
would. So I was like, all right, you
don't have to just freaking accept it at one point because
you can't just keep going on. Just telling yourself you're not
when you freaking know you are. So I was sitting outside with my
mom. I'm like, you already told her.
You don't know if you're gay like why is this so difficult
for you? And I didn't use the word gay.
I just, I looked over to my mom and I think I said, I think I am
we were not having this conversation somehow.
She understood what I was saying?
That's sweet. I because I don't remember us
actually talking about it and I'm just like, Mom, I think I
know I am or something like that and she understood.
And she like she was happy for me.
She was always supportive. Like there was no ounce of her
not supporting me. And that day I texted the family
member who I considered a sister at the time.
I have something to tell you when you get home and of course
the terrified her because she's like, the hell is happening.
She in trouble, but I texted her because I didn't want to let
myself out of it. I didn't want myself to back out
from actually telling her because she was going to be the
second person I ever told. So I was trying to we were going
to go get food that night and so we usually talk in the car.
So I was trying to get her to wait till we got in the car to
talk and she's like no you need to tell me now and I just
started bawling and he was so terrified because I looked up to
her so much. Like, I spent I had such a hard
time making friends. So when she was there, she was
basically my best friend. So I'm like, I don't know what I
would do. If she did not accept me,
because if she doesn't accept me, that's my entire like who I
hang out with like my life would be ruined if this person does
not accept me and that was that was the first time I used the
word gay. I finally got myself to stop
crying enough and we just like, sat there in silence until I was
able to get out. The sentence two words.
I'm gay. And I think she was like, oh my
gosh, I thought you were going to tell me like your flunked out
of school. Like you got suspended
something. And she was like, yeah, I kind
of figured. Yep.
Everyone knows for something like you.
Do I know - Lee admitting it to yourself is the hardest one.
It is it really? It is like, I had such a hard
time then. She told her friend, who was our
friend at the time and her sister, because she told me that
later. He's people keep blabbermouth, I
don't like it. Okay?
Because that are our friend at the time who's more her friend,
but she was like coming over every weekend.
Watching Pretty Little Liars. These bitches.
So, my sister and her friend, you're watching through two
Liars. They decided they wanted to test
me, of course, okay, so kind of like how your friends were going
to try and hit on you. Yep.
They're really talking about the relationship between Emily and
Allison. Mmm.
And there are like, what do you think of that ship?
At the time? I was totally on the ezria train
because Aria, we've already went over this So that gave them
nothing. but they figured From there.
I think also I came out on June 9th, 2017 know that?
I will always know that day. So then I told my friend, I'm
sorry, that's a cool date because you said, June 9th,
2017, goodnight. Yeah, 6 Plus 9 is 17.
That's awesome. That's not even worth.
I thought you were going with that.
That. in private, he was going That's a cool date
by the way, I also reduced remembered that I got tested to.
So apparently that's the theme. Yeah seriously yeah so I can't
do math 6 Plus 9 is 15. Sorry Timothy or I guess.
Hey you want also know people just kept talking about that and
I'm just like, well I love math so my not gay.
Hey I was like a good driver. Does that mean or not?
It might questions yourselves. Anyway, we do want to say how
you were tested. Oh well it wasn't in by people
that ended up being good. It was the homophobic roommate.
Oh, we were walking around walking to the cafeteria and she
would ask me. Do you think she's pretty Like
random girls. So, she was testing me to find
out like, figure it out. Oh yeah, people we like say like
do you think she's pretty? Do you think he's cute?
I'm just like no idea what to say because any answer could be
the wrong answer and I don't know what to do.
Like it's a random person. It is a person that is a human
being They have a face. They're walking and his off
their walking. They got them legs.
It's like, hey, do you want me to say, I don't know.
People are stupid. Yes, they are.
All right. Anyway, from there, I went on to
my friends at school just basically only three that I
actually told. So, the one, the first person
who I told Looks so freaking good.
Okay, I told this person. And she was like, oh, that's so
great. Did not tell me that she wasn't
straight. I asked her a few years later,
and I'm like, so, Like are you straight?
And she's like oh no I probably should have told you that when
you came out to kidding me, you could have had gay camaraderie.
No. Yeah, but my other friend.
I told my other friend when were walking too, My apartment on
campus. And I just this like so I want
to tell you something and I just hope it doesn't make you think
any differently. I mean because that was my huge
concern. I was like, these people aren't
going to be friends with me. I had to tell my roommate who is
one of my best friends at school and I was like she's not gonna
want to room with me like I was it was so bad and she's like
that's awesome man. What, why did you think I
wouldn't? I would think of you differently
and then she's like, did you tell this person?
The one that I told first, mmm. And I was like, yeah.
And she's like, yeah. I think she said that she liked
girls and guys like what the hell, you mean?
But she said nothing to me and I can't just ask her.
Yeah. Didn't know for years later.
I still don't know fully. She just said, she wasn't
straight. I don't know.
Actually, I could probably figure it out.
She's on gay Twitter. Oh, that we have old Twitter
section. The place to be.
Then I told my roommate and she didn't care, she just laughed
because she was listening to her friends podcast at the time.
So she's like, I'm gonna tell my friend that you came out to me,
listening to his podcast but wonderful, that's why I love you
too. And then I just kind of kept
telling people mostly, so I'd feel comfortable with it.
So, until my dad and my grandmother yet, it was like
they were the last people I wanted to tell ya because I was
terrified my grandmother's religious.
She goes to church every single Sunday.
Praise every single morning, I was terrified.
I'm Like This Woman's Gonna Hate Me.
I go there and I'm just sitting on the ground.
Just got there. Luckily, I had the dogs because
I go everywhere with me. And my dad came up because we're
always together when I first get there.
I'm just like well may as well just do it.
Now I'm just see what happens and then I was just like so I
have something to tell you. And they're like, okay I really
can't really stall. Just like spit it out.
What is like? I'm gay.
And my dad's like, yeah, I kind of figured.
Why aren't you telling me, right?
You tell me. And he's like, we never talk
about guys. I'm like, well, yeah, because I
stupid it's relatable. He's like yeah I know.
And my grandmother she I don't remember what the exact Words
that she used. And I just know that she was
fine with it, but she said the words it would be easier if you
weren't. Yeah.
And those words hit me so hard that I thought she wasn't
accepting of it. And it hurt even though she was
like being accepting, I was like, I thought oh she doesn't
like this but she's putting on a front right now and I told my
mom that that would happen and she later talk to her and she'd
been exposed to me like no, I talked to her about it.
She just met Like, she doesn't want you to have to go through
the hardships that come with being gay.
But she just didn't say the right words and unfortunately
saying the right words is a huge thing when people come out to
you. But it's also not a fair thing
fully to put on people because they don't know how they're
supposed to react. I don't know.
That was that and then a whole year later, I was going on a
trip around the world. And I was like, all right well
people around me know, but like it's not really official until
you make it social media official, right?
Like you have to put it on social media or else because
again, now, remember, I grew up with social media.
I had a MySpace at eight years old.
That's why I know what my space is that.
I think that when out before I even turn the age, I could get
in my space. Anyway.
So, June 9, 2018, I was in Brazil and then I just put it on
social media being like a year ago.
I came out to friends and family and now you guys all know you're
welcome. You're welcome. oh, but back to
high school, I did go with a girl to prom Not for any
specific reason. She was just my friend and she
really wanted me to go and I would did not want to go at all.
I was right? It did suck.
And oh, I try to dance with a girl.
Another girl at prom. She's like I should probably
dance with my date and I'm like well fine.
And then so I just kind of like threw her hands off and I was
like huh it's okay but then I slipped on my dress and fell and
I was just like no I was like damn it.
Was your prom better Theodora? Oh no, I didn't want to get into
this but I mean no my senior year of high school.
I had a devastating knee injury that destroyed my sports career
and so I was on crutches for prom and the date.
I had bailed so I went by myself.
Yeah, with my friends on crutches.
Yeah it didn't work out, it's fine in hindsight, but Why, I
mean Liza was there, all my friends, we got to have her her
parents, let her, as have her house, like to come to as like
the after prom. So like we had a party there
afterwards, it was fine and fine.
But like it was sad at the time. Like, finally get a lot of she
did you. I mean she was younger like one
of my look Ross friends like like introduced because it was I
couldn't meet people because I was like bed bound for a while
because of my knee. I was recovering from surgery
and she just chickened out because like it.
Again, like the time that we were doing this, it wasn't like
it is now. So it would have been, we would
have been the only like, like female female couple there.
So it's like, I'm like, I get it.
I do get it. It's big deal.
You're not a senior in high school so like you can't just
like piece. I was place if things go bad, so
It's fine. It's just scary, that's it
sucks, but that's life. It's fine.
College was fun, well College was interesting.
Okay, so I think it's funny. You brought the roommate thing.
So I was worried about that too. So my first year in college I
was at a very religious school because I got a scholarship to
play lacrosse. They didn't even see me play.
They just Pride reputation. I got a scholarship to play at
the school and I was like, whatever I'm doing it.
Like this was always my dream. I'm fucking to illya, what I
wouldn't give up on the sports thing until it was just like I
can't. I feel But we can't do this
anymore so I was like I have this is the first time ever I
like I was roommate roommate situation like you had free like
where it's not like Hey we're sharing an apartment it's like
no, we live in the same room together.
There's like 12 girls in one dorm that years.
A bathroom and we all have roommate roommates but weirdly
enough I got my roommate. So I had to tell her and I was
like, listen, like I'm gay. Hope that's a cool.
And she's like, I'm from Canada, that's fine.
And I said, because my coach paired, like the Canadian, The
Floridian, the people who live, the farthest, apart from each
other, and she was super cool. She's Canadian Juliana.
If I kept looking up, get it up like a giant cookie and I do, hi
Geoffrey Canada. But um, she from Owen Sound to
for Omens own Canada but what was funny or not funny but
fucked up. So I was at again, I was at a
literally, the school had monks like that's a religious place
was and they only had Yeah, this literally was a monastery with a
college so it was very weird but I can say, I partied with a
monk. Before he is no longer a monk
but that was fun. I'm not kidding.
So that was a thing that happened.
But um, so social media you brought up social media.
So, yeah, when I was in high school, when I first started,
that's when I got a Facebook because at the time you had to
have a college email, address to get a Facebook, that's what Mark
Zuckerberg originally designed. This thing for four people in,
Age to stay in touch when they go to college.
So it's a cool. I finally got a Facebook and
Facebook was different. I don't remember the difference
with my face but you got to pull up, put like interested in like
like relationship status like interested in.
So I was like, I'm putting women, whatever.
One of the girls on the team when I came out was like, I
didn't come out. I was just like I'm gate
whenever it's College, one of the girls commented on that and
she's like, Oh I thought that was a joke.
I was like, why would I joke about that?
Yeah, no, I'm gay. Why would I why is that a joke?
And she's like, oh no, I don't. I mean, because like people
didn't understand like, it wasn't common.
I was in the Bible Belt and he's literally in a monastery and
she's so like, she didn't really know and like, I never got like
any kind of weird stuff about it, but it was just that I was
just like, why? Is that a joke?
And she was just like, I don't, I don't I mean I don't never
heard it again. So I thought that was funny like
a social media thing. We really come out in, like, not
a joke, not a joke, super gay anywho, sorry Caitlin.
No, you're fine. I was just well, first, you
guys, kept bringing up Sports I was always like the musical
theater kid but I was just going to bring up the story because I
don't know if they watched the let the I think the interview
with that the discussion we do with Ang but I was going to
bring up my soccer story again. Of how I joined soccer and I had
a friend there. That's the whole reason I joined
soccer. And I wanted to hold her hand
and we were holding hands. Wow.
Practicing, and my coach yelled at us.
And I got so sad because I just wanted to hold her head because
I just love people. You do.
Do it. Has Mom feels.
Yeah. If you can't tell watch any
episodes of this podcast, that's why we love you Caitlyn.
Yeah. So I wasn't allowed to hold her
hand and I think that was also isn't just like okay you know I
don't hold girl's hands. So in summary like you can hold
hands on your own time. I'm like this is my own time.
Just let me run this drill. Holding her.
Hands are close enough together. How old are you?
That was that had to have been no later than fourth grade.
Okay. That makes sense.
You're so like pretty young. Yes, cool.
That's fine. That makes sense for like Xena
third. It was your third or fourth
because after fourth grade, that's when the homelessness
happened. Young kids actually boards are a
mess. So I mean, it makes sense.
You just want to like play with your friend.
Yeah, I'm gonna rest of my sports career.
Was just me wanting to hit people with the ball and sticks.
So all right but I did not work out.
It did not work out for me. It's the dance.
Dance and musical theater, gave me more confidence again.
That's awesome. But ever since coming out, which
was in 2017 2018, I still consider myself a baby gay
because I have no idea what the hell I'm doing and oh my God.
I mean, this doesn't really mean coming out but like I'm really
grateful for the pandemic because the pandemic led me to
an online convention where I met a bunch of friends who were all
gay and I had no one around me who was gay because the one
friend refused to tell me that she wasn't straight.
And where is this girl will come talk to her?
Just be of her. Give us her address you, I think
she's in New York now. I'll find a road trip.
Anyway, so it was just being surrounded by all gay women was
like the first experience for me.
And I'm like, I it was the first time I fully accepted myself,
some like, all these women are gay, there's people who are
married have girlfriends, and I'm just like, I can finally see
a future for myself. And then from there, I just kept
meeting more. And now every single person I
know besides Danielle is gay. Hey, Danielle for your podcast,
I'm Danielle that's gonna say we're working on it.
She's basically bye-bye now, so high.
But actually we have a song that we can sing later.
Yeah. But yeah, and now and now I'm
here with you guys and my life just completely changed from
actually having friends who were like me, and that's okay.
But yeah, I'm a baby gay still because I don't know what I'm
doing. And I've never had a girlfriend.
I have that's totally not the story for right now, but I I
have had one woman. Kissed me.
Hi Caitlin. We don't get the details.
No, it's but it wasn't an actual kiss and it was in Thailand.
And I'm going to say this for like the very few people who
might know what this is. It was at a ping-pong show
Caitlin why I figured Thailand's wild from Thailand.
Well, now we're strong. There was this was on the trip
around the world. So yeah.
I figured it was the first country I came out in social
media. So everybody knew, oh dear.
And Thailand was three-quarters of the way into the trip of two
months, a two-month trip with all the same people of twenty,
seven strangers, we all met and became really close.
There was no they won't listen to this.
There's also a girl on the trip, I like really liked.
I hung out with her a lot. She's really cute.
Oh yeah. Now she's married and has a kid.
Yeah. And that was there were so many
times where we were drunk, and I was just like, but I was like
coherent. Like, I could just like kiss
her. No Blame It on the alcohol.
Sounds like I could never be like that.
I know, I guess I just but yeah there was this guy who is the
oldest one on the trip but had money and he was like I'm buying
you a lap dance. No, no, I'm good.
Just know. It's like no no getting you one.
That's just not the way you want your first not like no you kiss
to go weird and it was 45 minutes.
And this lady oh much did he was just like holy shit.
He spent like two hundred fifty dollars the whole night and
bought lap dances for multiple people.
Jesus Christ. Oh my God that was such a crazy
ass night. Did everyone get 45 minutes?
This lady went up on stage and came back.
I'm like, please don't come back fine.
I'm like does she like you? Like and that dance is there.
She was fully topless of course. I apologize for any family
members was okay, you know what, no, they all know this because I
was stupid and my Brave thought, it was a great idea to tell
their story at my 21st, surprise party, with my grandmother there
and follow her friends. I love it Caitlin.
I love it. Is that I have no filter and
that's why I'm telling the story right now.
Hey, and then I also kissed two dudes that that summer to 1
because the the guy who bought the lap dance at he'd by the my
drinks, the rest of the trip. If I kissed another guy who was
on her trip and I was like, fine.
So I kissed him but it was like, just like literally, right?
And then weird but okay, I drank a lot and Australian was our
last night all together and I mean I was still like coherent
like I never got drunk enough to this was also my first
experience with alcohol I should there's like so much Each on
this trip, that was like, first hearse.
Like I accidentally got drunk in Italy because I had wine with
dinner, and I had no idea. But my head was on the table by
the time. Dessert came one house while I
don't get you. So the last night in Australia,
we are at this like karaoke bar, this was like our second or
third bar that we were in. Yeah, mind, you remember that
the Italy trip where I had wine and just got drunk but I had a
lot more alcohol and I was just this guy was like staring at me
while I was on stage and I could see him and then he came up to
me. When I got off the stage and he
kept talking to me and like, there's a person on the trip
near me. They were they always watched
out for me because they knew I had like no experience in any of
these clubs. So like that was the good part
about the trip. We always had somebody looking
out for us. Hmm.
And they're like, like, you know, you're allowed to say no,
right. Look at the time.
Like I'm like, no like that. Never crossed my mind that you
can say no because like I feel like you don't See people say no
ever? Yeah, to consent is not taught.
Well, hopefully, that changes in the future understanding you can
say no to things and she's like, do you want me to tell him that
you're gay? I'm like yeah, sure.
And then he she turns him. He's and she says she likes
girls and he does. Oh, okay, me too.
And she's like, okay, you see how this would never work?
But they were just standing there. and he's like talking to
me and then I remember I have no experience with kissing and I
turned to him I'm like, why you can kiss me if you want.
because, Because I was like, I feel like I should learn at some
point like, you know, like true course the people on my trip are
always like, well, how do you know you're gay?
Have you ever been with a guy? Oh my God, I hate it.
I'm like no. I just know that you guys are
all gross. Okay.
And then so question from Matt a lot and I'd be like, have you
ever slept with a guy? And they be like, no and how do
you know? We're just know that Chloe.
Yeah, that's basically what is great.
So the girl I liked on the trip, said that to me to like read but
that statement that guy, the guy who bought the lap dance was
actually dating her on the trip. Oh my God.
That whole trip, was it? It was a long trip and I certain
field that that relationship for so long and did not realize this
is how oblivious I am. Like, I do not see when people
are together, if someone's gay, I don't see it.
So oblivious. My God, this this is just going
on way too long and it's not relevant.
That's just weird. Anyway, of course, dad these
people who ask me that. See me kiss this dude they're
like well how do you like it? I'm like, listen to like it.
I'm like it was a dude. And then I'm like yeah I mean
the kiss was nothing. I'm like, II would hope it would
feel different if I like the person.
But also I forgot about the story that I told the last night
about when I saw when I didn't understand and realize that I
was gay yet but I watched Britt Robertson and Garland and I was
just watching it and I was like, what is this?
There is a feeling and I don't understand it.
I think this was in the year of questioning figure of
questioning, you know, what everyone hydrated at home for
lesbian Jesus, and Caitlin the baby gay and the year of
questioning. Oh yeah.
So this is a cape just long, very long story short, I have no
idea what the hell I'm doing, what day.
I understand. That's life my dear but
basically, I've accepted myself now.
Good and I have great friends surrounding me.
We're very happy for you. Everyone deserves that and
coming out and comes in many different shapes and forms, and
everybody's journey is different.
And I think the reason why we talked about it and it's
depicted so often is because it's a pretty unique thing in a
queer person's life, that heterosexual people never have
to do, they never have to do. It's just it is assumed and is
the default. And so this whole coming to
terms with who you are like and who you like, who you are
attracted, to is something they never have to do.
And it's so it is a unique experience, we all kind of have,
and it happens that it's, you know, if everybody happens at
their own pace, it manifests in its own way, there's good parts.
There's bad parts and everybody has their own story.
And so, if you guys feel comfortable sharing your stories
like with us, like, Please do, we would love to hear it.
If you're comfortable with that, like join our Discord, we can
talk about it. But we're curious.
What, what happened? What was your journey, like?
Is there any media that like, help you if you're fortunate to
have something like that? Like, you know what?
We will share it on social media.
Maybe it'll help somebody else who ever seen it before.
Yeah, that's the whole goal here.
I've always liked old thing. Yeah, I tell way too many
stories, but maybe people will relate to And then help
somebody. Yeah, exactly exactly what we
do. Have a fan who were going to
hear their story at the end because I have a whole rant
about it once they told me so that's at the end of the series
though. Yeah.
And so alright. I think I'm safe in assuming
that concludes part one of the coming out journey.
So again, I hope we hope that you enjoyed our stories and
we'll share yours with us. And when we come back, we will
get into different versions of coming out that exist.
Now, and media and talk about all the different kinds of
coming out stories that exist. So we'll see you guys then.
Yeah. Hydrate for all the baby gays
and all the guys out there after coming out.
Yeah hydrate for coming out. And with that we've been big gay
energy, if you liked this episode check out all of our
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until next time. Stay safe and hydrate for
lesbian Jesus.