Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers quiz. Yay, the Big Gay Energy team is
back with a super fun interview today.
Our intro and our interviewee today is Gypsy Taylor from Our
Flag Means Death. Thank you so much for being
here. Gypsy is the brilliant costume
designer that was behind that show and we are so, so, so
excited to talk to you. Welcome, Gypsy.
Well, thank you very much for having me.
I'm very excited to be on the Big Gay Energy Podcast.
Before I begin, were did you work on both seasons or just
season 2? Just Season 2.
Oh. OK, because the the filming
moved from LA to New Zealand, correct?
It did. It did, yeah.
Yeah. And during the first season, I
was unavailable on another project.
And then the designer who did the first season, she was
unavailable for the second season because she was off doing
Loki in London. Yeah, very cool, very cool that
she's a brilliant designer. Yeah.
So if the timing worked out that I was able to jump on board and
and funnily enough I was living in LA, so I had to relocate to
Auckland to do it, yeah, which is fine by me.
I love, I love working in New Zealand.
The last time I worked in New Zealand was about 18 years ago
on The Chronicles. Of I want to go to New Zealand
so bad. I just want to travel.
So pretty. And it's the best people.
It's just beautiful. Must go.
OK, well we asked Twitter. I guess we should say X, but I I
hate that. I refuse if they had any
questions for you. And boy, did they have them.
They asked Go. Many questions in fact, that we
decided to just let them take over the entire interview.
So here is what the audience is dying to know about the
costumes. OK.
So our first question comes from a fan who has been designing
their own concept costumes for the characters in Season 3,
getting a season three, But you know what?
This is helping it live on. Yes, correct.
So at Indigo, under score Under score Key asked.
Did the actors, personalities, interests, etcetera inform your
design process? I started designing a long time
before I met the actors, like probably 7 or 8 weeks before I
even met them. And I knew the actors work.
So I was already very familiar with Rhys Darby and Taika
Waititi and and that New Zealand crew.
So I already knew their personalities from, you know,
what I've seen of their work over the years.
And it wasn't until the actors were in the room with me that
then we put a few little twists on things.
So essentially I took what had already been established in
season one and then read all the new scripts for season 2 and
kind of did my little design tweaks and thought what I
thought would look good and pretty much had it all designed.
And then the actors arrived, just a few, you know, a couple
of weeks before we shot. So little things changed when
they were in the room, you know, like different little character
things that they thought, oh, I might like to keep this scarf or
I might like to, you know, hang on to a few little items.
But otherwise, it was all done by the time they arrived.
Yeah, I had a lot of creative freedom.
And I had a fantastic director, David Jenkins, who obviously
lives and breathes. Our flag means death.
So you know, everything that I came up with, any concept, any
drawing, any design, I'd run past him and he had.
He had all the characters in his in his wonderful brain, so we
were able to do that together. I don't believe someone asked
this in here, but I'm curious what is it like going into a
show that already is established rather than starting the show
yourself? It's a little bit intimidating
because the designer of season one did such a beautiful job and
and brought these characters to life.
And so upon arrival I I was like, I don't know what more I
can bring. These are amazing, you know?
But then there was a whole new wild story and a whole new lot
of new characters. And so I was able to put my
stamp on it, but also pay homage to the beautiful work of season
one. And it was a wonderful topic.
No, seriously, killed it. Thank you.
We had a lot, We had a lot more girls in this season, which was
really exciting to do. A lot more famous for cows,
which also the boys were really excited about.
Like when when they all arrived, they were like, oh thank God
there's some women. That's really refreshing to
hear. And, like, it really made
everything so much more fun because then you get like the
different culture, you know, that was coming in with like the
Chinese kind of like it was really fun in a lot of different
ways to see like a melding of people in costumes.
Yeah, yeah, so, oh, so fun to design.
Like, so fun. All right.
So the next question we have from you is from at everyone Get
cake, Which love. That orange cake?
They don't. Let us know if you're listening.
Everyone get cake. What kind of cake?
But is this cake or is the cake by the ocean thing?
I think it's like samba. Samba is the cake, you know,
Roach. Roach with his orange cake could
be like a little nod. Yes, the forty oranges.
See. I immediately thought of Mary
Antoinette, so definitely can fall with that one, everyone.
Gets cake. Go What's the wonderful
question? All right, so Roach's Cake is
asking for a gypsy. You've cited Prince at Adam Ant
and Iggy Pop as influences for our Flag Means Death Season 2.
I would love to hear more details about how these and
other musical icons inspired specific costumes on the show.
Oh yeah. I mean, I think.
I mean, music always inspires me whenever I go into any kind of
job. Right now I'm working at a job
that's set in 1989, so I've been like delving deep into like the
Billboard charts of 89. And so as a designer, I will
always go to music first, music and art and anything pop culture
around that period. And our show, you know, was 18th
century, which is very classic. But then David Jenkins said to
me, he goes, you know, think of it like these characters are
just walking down the streets of New York in the 80s.
And that's one of my favourite periods, 'cause you're thinking
about like Patti Smith and Warhol and Keith Haring and
Robert Mapplethorpe and all these genius artists of that
period were like bubbling away creating incredible art,
including all the musicians. And so straight up I like
started a playlist of my own and and you know, heavy on Blondie
and Hot and all these just great artists of the time And that was
really inspiring me just with the sounds.
And and of course each of those artists came with their unique
style. And you think about someone like
Prince and Chili and they were just so original and and unique
and queer and all the good things.
And so I straight up went to them and went, you know what?
How did you know Prince had these like pants that sort of
like instead of a straight fly just had this diagonal fly with
with buttons. And even as simple as that I
incorporated that into Archie's leather pants.
And instead of buttons we put big screws through.
And yeah, so just like little bits like that And Adam and the
Ants is like very new romantic. Lots of like they, I mean they
were honing it on the pirate style in the 80s because of
Vivienne Westwood. And so they'd already like,
taken that inspiration from the 18th century pirates, but made
it 80s and flamboyant. And so, you know there was just
so much good visual and and musical reference to bounce off
of really, and just add into our show to make it feel like all
the characters were walking down the streets of New York.
So you could just see them and go, Hey, what's up?
Good leather pants? I.
Can see that now that you're saying that?
It's funny that you do mention Vivienne Westwood because I
immediately clocked your earrings.
I I there's there's this like, necklace lighter that I want to
get so bad. And it's of that symbol made of
you, Westwood. But it's oh God, she's.
I'd have to save up to get a piece by her, but like, that's
definitely the dream. And she's one of my heroes.
I mean, she was such a unique designer and put her own stamp
on on a time period and a she invented punk.
So she's just the coolest. Classics people.
Oh yeah. So I admire her so much.
I have a couple of little pieces.
They're expensive, but I save up over time.
But we're going to get that little tiny piece of beautiful
things. I'm glad you noticed.
I put them on for you guys today.
I dressed up a little bit. Speaking of impressive work, we
have a question from Emily Loves Kale.
What is something you've worked on for the show that was
technically difficult or impressive, but but something
viewers may not realize because it wasn't on screen for that
long or for some other reason? Just because we'd love to see
any cool details that we may have missed.
Yeah. Oh, that's a good question.
I mean straight up I thought of the mermaid, but then you all
saw saw that on screen cause technically that was that was
difficult and wonderful to come to life.
Don't worry, we have multiple questions about that later.
Yeah, so much curiosity. It was impressive.
OK, good things like Zheng's army like it.
It seemed so simple, but we made every single outfit for her
entire crew and they were these beautiful hand dyed linen tops
and pants. And the pants were, they had
this incredible cut that my my tailor and a Deacon invented,
which was sort of this crossover pant that tied so you didn't
need any buttons or zips or anything current it could have
just been. They were just very simple but
so beautiful. And then we had to make about
300 of them because we had so many of Jean's crew in and you
never knew their size because you'd get extras on the day.
So we'd have to have like extra small to extra large in and and
they all had to be broken down. We also individually made all
their shoes because those little, those sort of little
Chinese slippers are really difficult to get.
They look very modern. They kind of look like a little
van slip on. So I went back to some 18th
century reference of how they were made, and there were just
two pieces of black cotton with this kind of woven base and we
made 300 pairs of shoes. Like, when does that ever
happen? Like, normally.
Yeah. Wild.
How long did that take? I mean jinx crew in general like
outfits and shoes. It's hard to put a time limit on
anything that gets made because we get a certain amount of pre
production. So you're doing all the things
at once. So you're chipping away like by
a little bit, by a little bit to get everything done in time for
the schedule. So Jane's crew came up a little
bit later in the schedule, so we were able to just chip away at
it a long, long time. But you know like in the dire
room everybody was turning blue and and it had all this like
really delicious piping and all this lining and yeah, it just,
it was a lot of work and I think you see it on screen because it
feels like there's a lot of her crew working for her.
Another one that didn't didn't make it on screen, which was
very sweet, was we hand knitted. We John's socks.
And yeah, you never saw them, but they were so beautiful.
They had I I have this wonderful friend who's just the most
incredible knitter in New Zealand.
Her name is Sarah Shepherd and she hand knitted little socks
with skull and crossbones on them.
That is so darling beautiful. But you never saw them on
screen, sadly. You have a photo of it.
I do, yeah, I'll have to. I'll find it and I'll upload it.
I'm sure everyone would be so excited to see it.
So beautiful. And we John, yeah, Christian is
just the most beautiful man and he in like he's he's huge.
Like we we had to hand make shoes for him too, 'cause he has
a very large foot. And so when the socks came out,
they were like these little Christmas stockings almost they
were, they were so. And then they fitted him
perfectly and he loved them. Yeah, so I've got a beautiful.
They end up they end up keeping the socks after season 2 wrapped
up. I can't remember.
I can't remember where they went.
Usually we wrap everything up and put it into storage and let
the producers keep everything should there be another season.
So yeah, I'm not sure where they ended up.
I'll put them online and maybe some knitter will come forward
and and knitted pair to match. Sounds like a challenge,
everybody listening at home. I've seen that.
What about you, Microsoft? I'm curious.
I know you've been talking a little bit about like actually
making things. Are the costumes mostly like
handmade from your designs or are they like gathered from
other things you find that are already made?
All the principles. So any of my main cast and my
day players people like Ricky and and the likes of you know
other characters they are all handmade from scratch head to
toe like all the jewellery all the belts and we gather pieces
So I we gathered a whole lot of belt buckles that were old and
but then often in film like we need multiples for things So if
we found some really old weird piece of chunky metal we would
cast it and make a few of them you know so that we had
multiples But yeah everything was made even you know I was
talking about those screws in the Archie's pants they were
they had to be soft so we we sculpted them as well.
We couldn't use real screws because otherwise she wouldn't
be able to do all of her high kicking and that sort of, and
Vico's fish hook belt was sculpted.
And. Yeah, so everything, everything
you see or screen printed and you know, inventing fabrics
along the way to make it unique and original.
So I would draw the sketch and then I would detail it and say
you know I sort of want it this colour and this texture and and
then I had a workshop of just wonderful creatives and makers
and yeah, we made it all anybody in the background was sort of
like pieced together from from stock that we found and but we
would Punkify it, you know we would rip it and burn it and do
all the fun things sounds. Like what the crew on the
Revenge would do, RIP. This.
Yeah, this would. Look cool.
Yeah, we made like fake vomit that we put on things so that
like like rum vomit. And then we had like fake bird
poo from seagulls and anything that made it look like they were
like living in A at sea. We had this kind of like salt
rim texture that we would spray paint on everything so it looked
like this, you know, that salt had eaten away at their clothes,
yeah. That's such a great detail.
Yes. So I'm sorry, I you just keep
saying the things that I have questions about how what did you
make the vomit and the bird poop out of?
Honestly, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it involved a lot of
paint and sort of like Modge, Podge, Jesuis, stuff that you'd
color. So it all had to be hard and in
place, but still look wet. So you can add things with like
a little bit of resin or a little bit of there's like art
materials, basically, so that they're safe for reactors and
that we can also store it in a washing machine if we need to.
But then it stays. Yeah, Black Pete always has had
like one really big glob of seagull on his shoulder that a
seagull would shat on him. He wouldn't.
I definitely did have a quick follow up question since when
you were talking about like like burning clothing, adding vomit,
stuff like that, that did raise the question of did you design
Steed's cursed suit that they find on the the mercenary ship.
I believe, I want to say, oh, that is so impressive.
It was it was such a look like that.
Like that was like like, I like it just it fit.
It fit him so well. It was so like like
complimentary, like. I can see why he was very
apprehensive to give it up when the crew was like, it's cursed,
it's cursed. It oh, he had to look very
handsome. And it which is not hard with
Reese. I I found it very easy to make
him look super handsome. And he just had to own it, you
know. And the minute he put it on and
it had those big matador shoulders and these kind of like
dandy Oscar Wilde tails and and you know that it was velvet and
all these delicious things. And I gave him all these jewels
like all the buttons there encrusted with jewels.
And yeah, I mean he'd like danced around the room and and I
I've, I've said, I've said before like we make everything
first out of a calico, which also is known as a twil.
And so you just make it all out of calico.
So you make sure that it fits before you cut into the
beautiful fabric and make the final costume.
And so even in the calico, which is just cream, he was spinning
around the room and like started doing the tail flick and and
like his shoulders went back and he, like his bum, got a bit
tighter and all this like amazing actory things came out
in just the the calico, which was rare and wonderful.
Very, very lovely. That's how you know it's right.
That's right. That's right.
They're like, we've got a winner.
This isn't about the costume in particular, but if that's
cursed, how is the shirt under it not cursed?
Yeah, we also had that follow up question because we were so
confused. I mean that's not really a
question for you, but just a curious.
I mean, well, look, going into this show, David Jenkins said to
me. You know, a lot of that
storylines are a little bit Looney Tunes.
It's a little bit funny, you know, like we're going to say
it's cursed. But then, oh, that shirt's so
cute. Maybe he just keeps it because
he looks really hot in it. Like one of the classic ones was
when Blackbeard put all his black Leathers and threw them
over the ship into the ocean, like, deep, deep into the ocean.
And then he finds them and appears and gets dressed in them
and appears out of the ocean wearing them.
And I was like, how is that how is that even possible?
Like what? Don't you want me to make an
outfit out of seaweed or something?
And he's like, like, he's like Gypsy Bugs Bunny, Looney Tunes.
Like, he just it. He finds it like he finds it in
the ocean. I was like, all right.
And his Leathers are fine. Just like the boats, they can
magically find, navigate in the ocean, and find the right person
they're trying to find. Yeah, well, it's a comedy.
We don't think too hard about them because we just make it
cute. I know, it's amazing, yes.
So for the question I'm actually supposed to ask.
And I first might be why you ask the question.
Please do. At first, Watch Live is curious
about the Calypso's birthday party scene and anything that a
non expert might not notice about the details of the
costumes in there. There's so many everybody's
there on the ship, I know. Oh, fancy too.
I mean, Ned Lowe was a really wonderful costume and I've
spoken a lot about, you know, Wee John's drag and Izzy's
beautiful look and but I think someone like Ned Lowe was a
really beautiful costume. We we made just a pure 18th
century cut for Bronson Pinchot and it was based on Paganini the
violinist. And I just thought, look, we'll
just go straight up 18th century.
I know. So I was again, I was like
pumping Paganini in the background and going, oh, it's
so evil and stringy and metally. And so we made this full 18th
century outfit. But then again, we did the
calico on the trial and then before we sewed the whole thing,
we painted all the fabric silver and Chrome.
So it had that metally feel. So normally an 18th century
outfit like that would have been, you know, beautiful velvet
or some sort of lushes, but we made it this metally silver
Chrome to kind of punctify it up a bit.
And and then things like his little buttons were these
beautiful little like metal coils that are like the end of a
violin. You know when the violin strings
go up and they tighten. I wanted all his little buttons
to look like that and for him to feel really evil.
And he and I think that was a costume that that kind of
disappeared a little bit into the into the chaos that ensued
at the party. But he was definitely one of my
favourites. I loved his look.
Oh, and I gave him like silver cowboy spurs, which was not even
invented in the 18th century, but it just felt right.
And like I love that you bring up Paganini cause like it that's
he like embodies him like with like the evilness and like
especially with like his his fixation on like the the
orchestra of pain or whatever the Symphony of pain.
Like it was it was just like just you saying that I'm making
that comment about the inspo for him.
Like it. It just puts every like puzzle
piece into place because like it just adds more of an extra depth
to it. Like it's just like told the
name of the devil's violinist. Like whenever he plays, surely
the devil was playing and I was like, oh, he's such a good, bad
character. I always like the bad
characters. They're the funnest in design,
just so that's one in That's one in Calypso's party that I really
love making. Everything about Calypso's party
was fantastic. All the so many fun costumes for
all the people that were at the party or crashed the party.
Yeah, that's right. Our next question comes from
Pirate Girl. How did you communicate the
character's growth slash transitions through your medium?
Was there anything you were particularly proud of that
perhaps didn't make it on screen?
That's that's that's a lot. That's a good question.
That's a lot for me to think about.
I'm trying to think of other things that didn't make it to
screen, but I feel like almost everything did.
It was something like the Wee John Socks you know, that were
there but you didn't see them. Can't think of what that might
be. And then as far as like
transitions goes, I really loved how how we split our crew.
Well at the end of season one when the crew is automatically
split up in half, go with black bed and half are stranded on an
island. I love that.
We cut to like three months later and they'd still been
living under a bridge. But then I got to really like
Black beardify the entire revenge crew and, you know,
really Mad Max them up basic, because Blackbeard's whole
outfit is very much inspired by Mad Max.
And so, you know, we had to make him black and and nasty and made
out of all these found objects. But that's a that was a really
big jump for someone like Jim and Frenchie and the ones who
were in like pretty pretty simple, beautiful pirate
costumes to begin with. And then I went really far.
So that jump was my favorite transition.
And then it was slowly, like taking them out of Blackbeard,
but keeping the rule that pirates don't have a wardrobe,
they they steal their wardrobe. So they more like they lost
pieces and gained pieces. So they never really
transitioned all that much. It was a little bit more
believable. So someone like Jim, you know,
had these fantastic boots that we made that were like buckles
all the way up to the kneecaps and these brilliant pants that
were like based on a a Pete Byrne pant.
I don't know if you know Pete Byrne, if you don't brilliant.
He loved Vivienne Westwood to talk about.
He was a style icon. So I did those paper bag pants
and the braces, the suspenders, but I wanted to keep that look
because it looked so cool. But then just start to
incorporate a little bit more of Jim into that.
At one point we were going to bring back like that beautiful
vest from season one. But but by then, I think Viko
had really like taken to this new evolution of what Jim was.
So yeah, they were my favorite sort of character transitions.
Probably love that. That's really, that's really
poignant about like the time jump too, like, and how that was
a very abrupt like their wardrobe.
And I like, I like the realism, like you said of like, pirates
can't just don't just go to stores and buy clothes like
they're thieving. That's good.
They're a good pair of boots on that dead pirate.
I might take those. And and I think that's what
makes it more like serendipitous and, like, ironic.
The fact that, like Steed finally gets a chance to have,
like more of like a pirate aspect when he stumbles upon the
cursed jacket and the crew doesn't let him keep it because
it's cursed. So like that just kind of added,
like a little undertone of like, comedic relief for the the
ironic aspect, 'cause it's like, yeah, pirates can see whatever,
but if your crew thinks it's cursed, you're shit out of luck.
That came with Reese as well. Like he came into my fitting
room and I said, you know, you've lost everything.
Like you've been stranded on an island for three months and
living under a bridge and you have nothing anymore.
So, like, whatever you find now is what becomes your new
persona. And Reece was like, oh, I don't
even get to keep any rings. And I was like, no, he got
nothing. And he goes, what about like 1
earring? I'm like, Nah, not yet.
And he's like, but what about like a little bit of lace from
his coats and I'm like all gone. Like, we'd burned them all and I
just had to keep. He was like a little boy, like,
oh, I can't have that. I was like, no, he just was so
sad that he'd lost all that opulence of season one and that
he was just down to like just a shitty pair of shirt than pants.
And I even went so far as, you know, that little like Maida D
scarf he has that was just a bit of the couch lining from the
ship just ripped off and it still had a bit of the tassel.
So it was just like really crappy bit of fabric and we just
sort of tied it to make him look like he had some sort of
opulence, but in actual fact it was just from a crappy old
couch. See, the game plan he should
have went with is making the argument of, but Taika got his
leather suit back. Why can't I keep an earring?
I know. And I was like, taking up with
the director. I it's not my fault.
But one ring Gypsy. I was like, all right, yeah.
Later on, let's still use some rings.
I'll bite your ear. All right.
That's adorable. Yeah, that's so cute with.
This our next question also involves Mersteed.
So Jason, under score, I'm going to miss Bergeron Bergeron.
Thank you. They asked.
I was curious how long it took to create Mr. Merstein's costume
and how many people are in apartments were required to make
that happen. Amazingly it was 1 incredible
woman called Hayley Egan who is a dear old friend of mine in
Australia and she's an incredible props maker.
I've worked on many films with her and she's all as long as
I've known her. She's had an obsession with
mermaids and sea creatures and octopus and she's often
sculpting things like this jewelry or it's.
So I just so when I read that there was a mermaid in the
script and they were talking. They were having the
conversation about should it be VFX, should it be practical.
And I was just like I've got a girl.
I have a girl who makes mermaids let me do this.
And they were like OK, let let her do this.
So we. So I called up Haley and of
course she was just like over the moon.
She's like, this is my dream to make this happen.
And then we started. So she probably had about four
weeks. She did it all from Australia
with a couple of assistants helping her.
Mainly. They were like pouring glitter
into every scale and helping her cast it and and airbrush it and
have it come together. So she headed up the tail and we
had four. In the end we had a, a stunt.
Oh we had a rehearsal one and then a stunt and then a two hero
ones. So it was 4 tails in the end and
one of my favorite things that happened was they were huge
right? So she said I'm going to hand
carry them on a plane from Sydney to Auckland and she got
she got 2 suitcases and sliced the middles out of both of them
and joined them and then like gaffed and she built like a
triple size suitcase. And then when she got to the
Auckland airport and New Zealanders have the funniest
sense of humor, the guy says, you know, are you importing any
meat or fish into the country? And she's like, yeah, full fish.
Got a whole mermaid in my suitcase.
You want to chat? He's like, what is it?
And she's like, had she just came for the weekend to drop it
off and like, stay and make sure it was all OK.
So she probably just had hand carry with her clothes and four
mermaid tails in this like giant handmade suitcase.
It was brilliant. It was.
Brilliant. Yeah, so the.
I want to see the suitcase right.
Yeah. Oh it's somewhere, it's
somewhere on the yeah so then when when she got to the
Auckland then we fitted brace properly we'd already done like
a pre fitting with a with in Lycra and I'd posted that to her
so she built on on that knowing his size.
So then we got it on him and then that was it.
We had like 2 days to shoot. We had like a day to practice
and for them to do all their breathing techniques and figure
out how deep they could go. And then we had to work out the
buoyancy of the of of the tail itself, because it was really,
really heavy. So he had to make sure that he
could still float with the weight.
So we did lots of those sort of buoyancy tests and with the
stunt department, and then we shot it and it was magic, actual
magic. I cried.
Yeah, it was very good. Yeah.
So that was, yeah, between me
and Haley and her her assistants, we we did that.
Yeah, I I think my favorite fun fact about the whole Mercedes
'cause I I saw an article talking about it and I just
think it's hilarious that it purely became a thing because
Jenkins Jenkins was like, I want to see what you would look like
as a mermaid. Yeah, and it was beautiful.
And he. Was he?
Was. And knowing that Reese, you
know, has like little gingery hair and sort of like gingery
chest hair and and gingery, you know, skin tone and everything,
I was like, well, he has to be a goldfish because one, it's just
such a sweet little kind of pathetic fish and it just
matched all of his persona and and I and then I after I decided
that he should be a goldfish, I found, I found a little like
Chinese cultural thing that said, you know, goldfish mean a
good luck and and love they tied up all these really beautiful
positive imagery. So I was like, well, yeah, of
course he has to be a goldfish. Yeah.
That was just lovely. And Reece was just like, he's
just said he's always wanted to become a mermaid.
So it was just his dreams come true as well.
We were lucky. So many dreams came true with
this. I know ass making this show.
I'm so glad they didn't VFX it, because yeah.
Thank you all. You're so good.
You know, and it's a little bit hokey as well, which I kind of
like, you know you. You might have left the on.
Yeah, you just go. Well, of course I believe it.
It's beautiful. We did a reaction video to it
and Theora knew it was coming and Zoe and I were talking and
she's like SH watch, like what? The hell Let's not stop
laughing. It was.
It got damn hilarious. I.
Know. But then you're laughing and
crying at the same time because it's such a beautiful scene.
So you're just like this is ridiculous, but I my heart
hurts. Exactly.
It's like, I wanna. It's like, I wanna focus on like
the pain and like agony that's currently experiencing, but
like, God damn that mermaid tail.
Yeah, yeah. And when you see outtakes of
Reese, he'd like, wink at the camera and do like, like flirty
fish things. And you go, oh, what are we
doing? What show are we making?
Yeah, it's a behind the scenes of a of Reese making kissy like
a little tiger. And I was like, I love it.
I love this man. That beautiful, beautiful
friendship. Speaking of emotions, at Ramsay
under Score B under Score O FM D wants to know what it was like
seeing Reese in the full tail regalia for the first time and
seeing this all come together and underwater.
I think Samba got a really good video, very embarrassing video
of me, 'cause I was like on the side of the pool, just, like
clutching my heart and just being like I was just so proud.
And I felt, and I I don't have any children, but I felt like a
proud mother of a merman. And I was like, I've never been
more proud that he like, look, he like.
He went so deep and he swam so well and he acted underwater and
he looked so beautiful and I just, I just felt like a proud
mother. Proud mother of a forever
mermaid. That is such a wonderful quote.
Yeah, yeah, I really. Was and and and just you know
when you see it all come together like that's most of my
job is we spend weeks making and and refining and fitting and
making sure that just that very quick moment on screen is as
beautiful as it can be. And so just when that alchemy
happens and you know you're there and then the hair and make
up team have done a beautiful job and they've covered him in
glitter. And you know, then the props
team have given him a sceptre. And you know, the stunt team
have worked so hard at making sure that they can breathe and
relax deep underwater. And then the lighting guys come
in and put these shafts of light that hit the glitter on the
fins. And you know it's this like a
magical alchemy of when it all comes together and then they
just go action and you go, we all did that.
We all came together and made that moment in film, so it's
very rare when things like that come together so beautifully.
I saw the behind the scenes video you posted on Instagram
about it and it just blows my mind how they're able to film
underwater and just having the huge tanks.
Like, I'm impressed. That's has to be.
True. And you know that a few of those
tanks around the world. So New Zealand has one.
Gold Coast has one, Atlanta has one, Mexico had one for a little
while there. And so there's like all those
films, they like the Pirates of the Caribbean, Meg, you name it.
Like they all go to the same tanks and film in there and it's
amazing. You know what?
What can be? What magic can be made?
You said. Was it Haley?
Who? Haley Did she make tales for
other shows and stuff, or is this her first time making it
for the? I think this was the first time
she'd made one for a movie. I know she'd done personal ones
for her and her daughter for swimming and and what not but
she's just she's sculpted to sort of see creaturey things
most of her career. So I she's does this like
incredible octopus chandelier that she's sculpted that all
lights up and yeah like she's just very, very clever.
I've worked with her many times, and every time I'm just blown
away by what she's able to create.
We worked on a McDonald's commercial recently, which was
weird and funny. And I wanted to make like, a
pair of Balenciaga Crocs that were a MC Crispy chicken burger.
And so I was like, you know, I was like, you know, like we'll
just slice the croc in half and then we'll have like, a chicken
Patty and some lettuce and some Mayo and some mustard seeds.
And she's like, yeah, yeah, got it.
Goes away, comes back with all these photos.
I'm like you're a genius. Well, well, I probably won't be
able to afford it if she does have an Etsy shop I would love
to peruse. Yeah, I think it's also jewelry
online. Hayley Egan, design.com from
memory. I was just curious because there
was a kid show that filmed in Australia called H2O that used a
lot of mermaid tails. So.
Yeah, yeah, That was one of the They were one of the first teams
I thought of. I was like, oh, who made those,
'cause they were really beautiful, I thought.
I thought they put on camera was I was working on Narnia up in
the Gold Coast when they were shooting H2O.
And I remember just kind of going to lunch one day and
walking in the back lot and some guy was just pulling a trolley
with like 4 tails from H2O just stacked on each other.
And he's just like, you know, doing his job.
And I was just like, what am I? I'm I'm amazed at how realistic
these two. I mean, not that I know what it
would look like in real life, but like, they look so good.
Yeah, yeah. They look so heavy.
Yeah, so heavy because silicon is really the only thing that
holds up underwater and in chlorine, because those pools
have to be like heavily chlorinated and chlorine kills
everything, kills all fabric and it's like bleach.
So silicon has to. So you have to find a way to
like, make it light enough, but sort of all out of silicon,
latex and wet suit materials and they're all really dense and
really heavy. So yeah, we knew we didn't have
long. Yeah, we had like a, we had
these baths on the side as well that were like just big old tubs
from, you know, the hardware store.
And they all had their different type of cleaning product in it
that would clean the latex and the silicon and the lycra
between shots so that we could, like, keep the longevity of it.
So we'd like dunk them like, you know, like like old photographs
and they all have their like solution of their training.
I was like that but with a fish tail.
And we when we get to the end and like, hang it up and we'd be
ready for the next tape. That is hilarious.
Oh my God. And.
We had to build a brand pool as well because to roll him in,
yeah, to roll him in. So I I basically, I was like oh,
how am I going to get him around once he's like in it?
And I thought it back to this like Bette Midler performance
where she played a mermaid in a wheelchair.
And I was like, oh, we just wanna go rent a wheelchair.
And so we found we were able to rent a wheelchair from like, the
local chemist or hospital. I don't know.
And we. And then I said, OK, well, he
still has to get up into the pool, which is like 2 meters.
So we talked about like a little sling or do we carry him?
And I spoke to the construction department and they just built
him a wheelchair mermaid ramp so we could just wheel him up and
then kind of push him in. It is so great.
There you go. There you go.
Off you go. Yeah, I was wondering how he was
going to walk and that I was like, there's no way.
Yeah, he can stand because the the the mono fin they call it,
you can stand up straight in it, but then once you're swimming it
like flows with you, but you can stand.
So he stood up. Well, we did all the final
glitter and make up and everything, and then he just sat
back down and we wheeled him. Yeah, I think Samba has footage
of that as well. Oh lovely.
Right, our next question pivots. Sadly, we're pivoting away from
Mercede into Spanish Jackie territory, so S S in the Wind
43220 wants to know about the origin of Spanish Jackie's
wooden hand. Oh, you know what?
I don't know That question somebody.
Oh yeah, I would imagine that she'd lost it in a fight because
she's a very violent woman who loves chopping off noses and you
know, owns a pirate bar. So there's probably had been
some encounter but back in those days like any sort of amputees
or anybody missing any limbs would have been sculpted out of
a wood because it was sort of like pre metal, you know pre
industrial revolution. So if you were missing a limb
they usually had it sculpted out of wood.
So I would imagine that's probably the storyline.
And I like that she's sort of like decorated it with rings and
it had nails and it perfectly hold like a cigar.
Yeah, I thought it was a very nice like little detail because
it's like it's definitely like a blink and you'll miss it type of
detail because like she wears it so well.
Like it just looks like a regular hand, not a wooden hand.
So it's such a nice like attention to detail type of
thing. Yeah, it's funny because as
again, it's that Looney Tunes thing.
Like I never asked. I didn't ask any questions.
I was like, oh, she got a wooden hand and then I would just
decorate it. I put like little lace frills
and and just decorate this beautiful hand.
But I never asked where it came from.
I'm sorry, I don't have the answer.
Oh, no, it's OK. I just.
I also just love that it's not just a normal wooded hand.
It has all those attention to. It has personality, like you're
saying, which is. A life of its own.
And Leslie would like, act with it, you know, Like everything
became like this and he'd like to do things.
Yeah. I loved it.
It was very, very funny. It's.
So funny. All right.
So our next question kind of ties into Reese's.
I don't wanna call it a temper tantrum, but like a plea for for
extra add-ons. So this question comes from Gina
Dora and she she or they want to know more about the teal robe
and the reason why I brought up you and Reese's conversation.
I it it's so it's kind of like, is this like a compromise?
Like, 'cause it, it looks so comfortable?
So, like, I I want to know, 'cause I know, like, Reese would
have loved it, and I know Ed wore it, 'cause he looked very
comfortable in it. So was like that, like a
compromise to, like, give like the crew, like a little bit
extra since, like, Ed had lost, like his leather, like attire
prior. Like what's the context behind
it? Not that deep, but it.
We would imagine that like he burnt the Blackbeard once he'd
taken over the Revenge head sort of set all of Steve's clothes on
fire in a in a heartbroken, you know, throwing him overboard,
like get rid of anything that belongs to him.
He doesn't want to see it. But the thinking behind it was
that maybe he just kept one little thing that like just a
little memory of Steve and so you know and the and the robe in
season one was so beloved and I knew that we had this this scene
with them in bed having breakfast.
And so I said oh you know what if the.
What if the piece is kept is just another robe that we'd
never seen of steeds. And you know something like
those robes fit anybody so kind of anyone can put it on and it
looks beautiful. So then we started building what
would be the next robe and that's actually that's one of
the ones that didn't get seen as much.
And I have had a lot of questions about it, like what's
the lining like and and all of that business.
But we made it so quickly and it was on the screen so quickly
that I don't really have any imagery sadly.
But it was this beautiful velvet, silk velvet and it was
in that teely colour that we love that reminds us of state
from season one. And then we dip dyed.
We ombre dyed the whole bottom in this sort of dark, dark
colour way and all the inside was lined in in a Chinese silk,
as like a little nod to Jiang, but not really.
It was just pretty. So it was this like pale purple
Chinese silk. And then I had all these, you
know, because we were always scouring markets and thrift
stores and Etsy for just kind of strange metally things that they
would have found at sea. And I'd found these, like
curtain tassels that were bullion, which is like a metal.
And they were just these balls with tassels.
And I, we never had any costumes to put them on.
And I always had them hanging in my office because I loved them
And I was like, oh, let's hang them on the robe.
So we had the off the sleeve. They had these Pretty Little
metal tassels. And yeah.
And then he got, he was just, you know, then Tiger wore it.
And I think Tiger kept that robe.
I think you love it. Like you could take this one
home. And I was like, yes, yes you
can. That's cute.
You actually ended up answering the follow up question for from
Gina Dora, which was the the lining?
Was the lining dip dyed? What color is it?
Because they wanted to know for cosplay.
I know, I know. I wish I had some good photos of
it. Sometimes we're just rushing so
much to get things done and on screen that I like.
I remember the fitting photo I have is just the plain teal
velvet. And so there was no detail, no
lining, no nothing. It was just like, here's the
shape. Does that fit you?
Yep. Good.
Go out, dye it, da, da, Put it on screen, put it, shoot it, put
it in a box. Gone like it was very fast.
And so yeah, I don't have many reference pictures sadly, but
yeah, the lining, it's like that Chinese silk that has little
flowers and it starts off as this kind of lilac and then it
dip dyed into the ends like ombre into a sort of a darker
purple which was black beard's colour.
So I want like a touch of steed and a touch of black beard in
there. So it was really the teals and
the purples joined together with these kind of rusted metal
bullion tassels. That is adorable.
Thank. You.
So we kind of talked about this a bit, but I'm gonna ask again
just in case your answer might be different at Dean Bird on
AO3. What cost?
Which costumes are you proudest of?
Any fun stories from putting them together?
I mean, I'm proud of them all. I just told you I was a proud
mother of a merman. Like anything that anything that
came out of the workshop and then was on screen, I was just
like oh, it's so beautiful. So that's a really hard one to
add. So that is really like choosing
your favorite child. I I don't know if I can.
They're just. They're all fabulous.
So they all had their own story and they all had their own
persona. And then the actors brought them
to life and everything. It was everything.
OK, all right. There's one favorite I had,
which was, which was this background.
I had this vision. Oh, I Well, that's right.
I was listening to this podcast on the way to work every day
called the Pirate History Podcast.
It's fantastic. And he was talking about how so
many rats were at the bottom of a ship and the rats would eat
all the food that the pirates had.
So then they had to steal more food.
And you know, rats were always just like a problem at sea
because they could live in the water and all that sort of
thing. So I one day, just for one of
the pirates that comes into the bar, I was like, you know what
we need to make? We need to make a jacket of
rats. And so instead, like, and we
obviously, we use all fake fur in the show to be good to the
world and good to animals. And so we built little fake fur
rats. This wonderful girl on my team,
Melissa, she made tiny little tails and tiny little arms and
legs and little ears. And then we sewed like hundreds
of them together into a vest. And then we took it to the
breakdown department, who made it just look all crusty and like
just dead rats. And there's just this beautiful
rat vest in the show. And that's that piece I.
Love it. I love it.
I. Love everything about that.
And I was. I couldn't think of what like
person to put it on. But when it all came together, I
was very proud of the little rat vest.
I would be too. Yeah, as you should be.
I will. I gotta go find the red.
Festival. I would walk around the office
wearing it and everyone would be like, Oh my God, she's worried.
Just being historically accurate for our show.
Crazy designer. But I think your first answer is
very fair, 'cause you should be proud of every single costume
that was created, because they all have a personality.
They're all amazing. Yeah, I wanted to wear all of
them. Seriously.
Same. OK, I love it.
I'm going to push her this next person's name, so I apologize,
I'm trying. So you want me to do it for you,
Freeburg? Nadia, was I close?
I I OK, so my take was Freiburg. Nadia.
OK, so they have two different takes.
Go ahead. Hopefully one's right.
OK. Yeah.
What's your question? They say all my love to the
makeup and costume designers. What a look.
Loved every single detail. It's like.
So first Love now question Zhang's costume.
How historically accurate was it?
Oh, she was like one of the very close to close to period
costumes that we did. I didn't really like put a punk
take on her at all. We I looked at a lot of museum
pieces of clothing, so there's a whole lot of like amazing museum
websites like the VNA and and Natural History Museum and
they'll quite often photograph pieces of clothing flat and they
just kind of get the back and the front.
And I had a lot of photographic reference as well, which was a
little bit later because obviously cameras were not
involved. And I looked at a lot of art
from that period as well and just followed the lines because
I wanted to get it accurate for, you know, the purposes of just
being culturally representing it properly.
And I am not Chinese, as you may have noticed.
So I wanted to make sure that I did it right and good.
So I really looked into what was worn in that period through the
form of art and museums. And so we then just cut pieces
and and and made our own version of what we thought that might be
from the picture reference. So she was very much you know
pattern wise and and detail wise accurate to that period.
And then the fabrics obviously had to be modern because I was
buying them from a modern fabric store.
But we tried to make sure that we got a lot of like Chinese
silks and made sure that it was the correct Chinese print.
And and we made all the, they call them little frogs, you
know, the knots. So we made sure all we handmade
all of those that they looked correct.
Actually back to those Zheng uniforms as well, Melissa who
made all the little rat tails. She also made thousands of those
tiny little frog knots, you see like 3 on every Zheng uniform.
So 3 * 200. She handmade all of those.
That's impressive. Impressive.
Yeah. So Zheng was very much speed.
The actually the one little punk thing that I did give her though
was her leather cuffs. And again they were sort of like
based on Chinese armor a little bit.
But then I added these kind of the silhouette of a little skull
and then two little gold crossbars.
So they 3 hidden little skull and crossbars as her little
pirate nod. But yeah, otherwise she was very
historically accurate. That character is one of my
favorites in general. OK.
She's so. Good.
We we were absolutely just praising the character when we
were doing our reaction episode for it.
Like just very well written and like the historical accuracy,
like it's just overall it's such a good character.
Oh yeah, she's so badass. And I yeah, just love that
character. And I loved Auntie as well.
Who was her son? Oh my God, yes.
Yeah. Auntie was just like everything.
I loved her so much. And with Auntie, we had
originally cast or it had been scripted that she was a Chinese
grandma. But then once we met Anna Pella
and in the reading, we were just like, Oh my God, she's so
fabulous. Then I sort of had to
incorporate less Chinese and more sort of Maori culture and
almost again, like that pirate thinking of like, oh, she stole
that jacket and that vest and she stole those pants and this
necklace is all the things she's collected along the Silk Road.
And so, yeah, so we weren't being we were just making our
own version of other pieces she'd collected from from her
journey on Jen's ships through the Silk Road, but still being,
you know, kind and aware to her Maori culture.
Very, very lovely. Not too much.
So this kind of plays off of Dean's question a little bit,
but it's it's its own question in and of itself.
It's just a similar theme. This is from Ghost in the
Stacks. What costume were you most
excited to see put into action and or what was the most
difficult one to create? Oh, actually the English army
was really difficult. Yes, because we had to.
They were all period correct. And we had some of the, we had
some of the uniforms from season one, but they were not enough
because David Jenkins had this vision of like the whole English
army taking over the Republic of Pirates.
And so again, that was like 3 or 400 costumes, much like we were.
But we like I tried, you know, and their colours were Navy and
cream and gold and we couldn't find enough fabric around the
world. And like the all the wool we had
to import from England because New Zealand didn't have enough
Navy wool to cover our army. And we didn't we had to like
source gold braid from everywhere around the world to
like just make sure we had enough meteorage to cover like
the tricorns and all done thing And who had like to sort of
piece that together was huge and a mammoth effort of my team.
And they were all like period correct pants and vests and
shirts and coats as well and so and that yeah that was just a
mammoth effort. But then when we saw it all come
together on screen and you see them will like arrive and take
over the Republic of pirates you you it was like epic and iconic.
And then to have our casting, you know our cast of pirates
steal their uniforms and wear them, that then became like its
own storyline. And I gave them all their own
little characters of like who what they stole and how they
styled it on themselves which was really, really fun.
So that was probably like had it was the hardest work and had
such a huge reward saying it all comes together.
With knowing the Baxter right behind it, that kind of raises
the question, if you don't know the answer to this, that is
totally fine. What was Y'all's costume budget
for like keeping like every like all of this in mind?
Like, I would assume like it would have to be like at least
like a pretty penny to be able to like reach out and source
these products and like make sure it's still ethical.
And it just seems like a lot going into the costume designing
aspect of it. If you're allowed.
To answer that. Yeah, if you're allowed.
Figure off the top of my head, but I do know that that budgets
on film are never as much as you need.
And you know, I've worked on really small horror films up to
like huge James Cameron Avatari type budgets and there's always
you. You just find where you lie in
that, in that scale and you make it work.
And a lot of the time it's not really about like the materials
per SE, it's all of our budget goes into labour and the
craftsmanship. So that is where all my budget
goes is into the leather makers and the dyers and the
seamstresses and the runners and the coordinators and and that
team is the thing that that makes it work.
So when you when I talk about things like, oh, we had to go to
England to get wool. In the scheme of things, that
wasn't that expensive, but it was more expensive for the
seamstresses to sit there and sew 400 coats because their time
is more is more laborious and expensive because of how long it
takes to make it so beautiful. So yeah, Did that answer yes?
It definitely did. Thank you for that.
But I don't know the number. I'm also like quite dyslexic.
I'm not very good with numbers, so that's totally fine.
That's that is fair. So our last question comes from
at here briefly. One, what is the process for
determining or and creating the aesthetic for background actors
from season one to season 2? The styles of people in the
Republic of Pirates seem to modernize and be more leather
forward. So what went into that?
You were look. Liverpool is such a good term.
I want to use that all the time. They also say thank you for
everything. You are welcome again.
It came back to that brief from David Jenkins with the with the
with the cast where he just said it's the streets of New York.
So of course I just went straight to punk because 80s New
York, that's was a it was a huge part of it.
And also it was that punk saying that like informed hip hop and
and that became like that melded into that in the later 80s.
So it just was hard, just punk and I had a whole team who would
just work on the extras. So I think it was a team of five
or six team members who would find pieces and like it might be
from the thrift store, it might be from we'd made sauced, it
made you know just like an amalgamation of a million
pieces. And we had them all lined up in
like vests, pants, coats, jewellery, gloves, petticoats,
crinolines, corsets. They just went on and on and on.
So we built like a library per southeast of all of these
costumes. And then almost every single one
of those pieces went through the art finishing department.
He'd break it all down and rip it and burn it and add vomit and
and then we we just had this pirate library, basically.
And one of the things that David also was really adamant about
was that, you know, it had an iconic look and didn't look like
Pirates of the Caribbean or we didn't want it to look like
piratey, per SE. So we sort of invented a lot of
characters that looked like they could have been in a band or
they could have been, you know, an artist of that period and and
still incorporate 18th century silhouettes, but just really
leaned in on, yeah, the the New York streets of the 80s.
And that's what gave it that beautiful look.
Leather. Leather forward.
It's leather forward. Never going to forget that.
Well, that's all the questions we and the audience have for you
today. We could probably talk to you
forever. You're so amazing and so is your
worst. Like, I believe you worked on
Wheel of Time, which we're going to cover at some point.
I did. Yeah, I would say it's.
One of Theora's favorite. Oh yeah, Really.
It's a great show. Oh.
My God and this. And again, the outfits just
asked for another time. If you're game to talk about it,
'cause. Yeah.
Wow, those outfits. Yeah, they were good fun.
I was. I was actually reminiscing the
other day about the Tinkers. They were one of our favorite
things. My God, yes, all the.
Colours. Was beautiful.
I had this all like 3 and Hot Pinks and it was delightful.
Yeah, yeah, That was just really.
Fun from a costume perspective. Yeah, that was a really special
job. And also like on the pages, like
the Robert Jordan books, like he just explains it all and you go,
Oh my God, that's beautiful. Like how do we make that happen
and how do we come up those eyes to eye colours and you know all.
That the ambulance dress and like all that stuff and.
Yeah, yeah. I'm glad you're a fan and they
were great questions. So thank you to everybody who
who wrote in and and asked questions.
That means so much and I love seeing all the cosplay costumes.
It just warms my heart. Also, I need to just confirm
this for myself, but didn't you also work on the Chronicles of
Narnia? I did, yeah.
The first one and the good one. So Lion Witch and the Wardrobe
and then the Dawn Treaddock years later.
Yeah, yeah. I started out as a Costco.
Yeah, there's more than one, and I think it's like a trilogy.
Three. Yeah, there was gonna be like
four or five. And I heard a rumor that I think
Greta Gerwig is is like. Yeah, it's gonna take.
Over Prince County and I. Think Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That first one was like one of my first jobs and I was a
costume illustrator. Wow.
So I worked under the costume designer and just drew and
painted all day long. And it was just.
Well, it paid off. Those costumes were gorgeous.
Yeah, really good. Yeah, I'd be very lucky to work
on lots of fantasy projects, which is one of my favourites.
That's awesome. Again, we obviously we can talk
to you all day but. We are.
Yeah. So happy that you joined us
today. Thank you again for taking the
time to talk with us. We're really appreciating.
Love getting to know you and your work better.
And to you, everybody, everybody at the Big Gay Energy Podcast.
Thank you for inviting me. It was very special.
To everyone at home listening, make sure to check out our Flag
Means death streaming on Max. And until next time, hydrate for
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