Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda
today, Fiora? Today the number one item on the
big gay agenda is wrapping up High School Musical the Musical
the series by talking about season 4.
Just as a heads up, this will be a episode full of spoilers, so
if you want a spoil free review of High School Musical The
Musical the series overall, go back to our very first episode
about this where we give our non spoilery review in the beginning
if you're joining us for the first time for some reason.
If not, and you're here for all the fun stuff, just keep on
listening. We're going to get into all of
it, but before we jump into all that, just a quick little
housekeeping, yes. If you're watching this podcast
on YouTube, be sure to subscribe.
Oh my God, I have so much issues with this word.
Be sure to subscribe to our channel, give this video a like,
and drop a comment to share your thoughts.
We absolutely love hearing from you.
We do, Yes. For our podcast listeners,
please download this episode and leave a review if you can.
Your engagement helps us reach a broader audience and spread the
joy of queer content. For even more exclusive queer
content, early access to videos and full reaction videos.
So not just the highlights in the first three episodes, join
us on Patreon and then also dive into discussions on our Discord
channel where we enjoy connecting with all of you.
It has been pretty active and we have been loving it.
Yes. Also for those of you out there
who are like when are you guys going to talk about Gap, the
series that's going to be coming up real soon if you're listening
slash watching to this. So if you want all of that
stuff, become a patron, because some of it will be on YouTube,
some of it will be on the podcast, all of it's going on
the Patreon. So there's that.
We try to give Patreon as much as we can.
We we do. We literally sit down for 30
minutes and just talk together and it's just it's a fun time
over there. It's the Chaos Crew, yes.
You are part of our chaos and we love it.
Keep it chaotic. That's the slogan.
You can also explore all of our merchandise at
biggateenergypod.com and all the links will be in the
description, so check it all out.
Lastly, stay connected with us on social media.
Follow by following at Big Gay Energy Pod made it easy.
It's the same thing on everything.
Your interactions mean the world to us, and these actions
contribute to our ongoing celebration of queer media and
advocacy for better representation.
Oh 'cause that's really why we're all here.
Yeah, it's also just so fun. It really is fun.
And then I just love when people point out things that we didn't
talk about on the episode. And it's just like my.
It's great. And and educating us because you
know we don't know everything. We don't pretend like we know
everything either. Yeah.
So for the people not watching and the people watching, I have
found yet another costume to put on finale the everyday that we
filmed. So we filmed two episodes in one
day which is why I had the same costume on.
But I I have looked in the archives for this one, which is
not that hard. I don't have most of my, like,
actual dance costumes. So these are all guard, which is
fitting also for Carlos. True.
Yes. All right, so let's get into
Season 4. This is my favorite season.
OK, so the new characters this season that we meet are Quinn,
who is very I have not figured out a way to describe Quinn like
in like 1 word. Who's Quinn?
The director. The director.
Oh my God, dude, I love her. She's just like, OK, well, I'll
explain Quinn. I actually love Quinn.
Quinn is just that really pretentious person that went to
art school and never got over themselves.
So she has a massive ego. So she comes into High School
Musical, she's directing the play or the movie, High School
Musical 4 or whatever. And she's like, yeah, I don't
know anything about High School Musical.
I'm just here to make it artsy as fuck.
I did this like indie film. That's the best thing ever that
no one's heard of outside of those scenes.
So she's just full of herself. She's like the classic, like
egotistical maniac director who clearly doesn't understand the
material, 'cause she's just like too artsy about it.
And it's like this is literally just a high school thing.
Like, what are you doing? She's.
Trying to make it like a Kubrick film or something ridiculous
where you're like, girl, maybe you should have read the script
before you ended up here. But yeah, that's her.
So she's like, hard to deal with.
For a lot, with a lot of the actors, because she doesn't
understand the material, because she never read it and however
takes over. I do love like her relationship
with Maddox. We need to talk about that a
little bit later. But sure, yeah.
Yeah, she's fucking hilarious. I'm like, yes, a Glee character
is here that's actually being themselves and it's great.
Just while we're on her really quickly.
I didn't. I was going to bring it up
later. But when so and Danny is doing
the like, big Miss Darba scene and she reads the stage
directions, Quinn's face is the funniest thing.
She's just like, like, what the hell are you doing?
Like that's the first thing you learn.
For real, but like don't hire influencers to be actors.
Like that was a big mistake. I think Mack was probably part
of the reason. So some other new characters
that we just kind of brought up Mack the child star, Danny the
influencer, and a handful of characters that we already know
well from the High School Musical movies.
Now this season, we are back at East High, no longer at Camp
Shallow Lake. It's.
The two weeks have passed. Summer is over.
Fiore is always going to be hung up all those two.
Weeks so dumb. Thank you.
But this is where we find out that the fall musical will be
High School Musical 3, which side note you can't actually.
It's not a show you can license. I don't even think it is a shade
show. I know I saw that there was a
video of a high school doing it, but I have not been able to find
the rights to this show, so I don't think it actually exists.
It's just Disney flexing. Maybe that's why they never did
it. You can't actually do it like
the show. They never actually do.
It at the end of the season, don't they?
Yes, they do. Do they?
Yeah. Oh, I guess they do.
I almost fell apart. My bad.
That was that was really funny. If it just yeah, never mind,
never mind. My brain went somewhere else for
the realism. It's just Disney flexing.
They're like you. We can do it 'cause it's our
show and we own the movie rights.
Yeah, I don't know if like, maybe there was rights at one
time and now there aren't, or like, I don't know, it doesn't
matter. It's just Disney propaganda.
While they're putting on High School Musical 3, the big thing
going on right now is that they are shooting High School Musical
for the the the 4th movie in the series with at the high school
at the high school. This is the high school that
hosted the movies, so that's what's that's why everyone is
converging. And there's quite a few original
cast members there and they're filming at the same time as the
show is going on. So there's a lot of High School
Musical going on. That poor school will never be
able to escape school. It's the coolest.
We can't escape That school actually has tours every day
after school. It's like self-guided tours.
So there's maps and everything. I don't think you can get in
there right now, 'cause there's construction.
I know way too much. Yes you do.
Obsessions. Hyper fixations.
That's what happens. But Mac and Danny are the leads
for High School Musical 4. But Quinn fires Danny after the
first day because you know she's awful.
You literally cannot. Act.
It's like you're just trying to hire somebody who has a fan base
to bring to the movie, 'cause like, I mean, yeah, they have
her dating Mac quote, UN quote, but it's publicity anyway for
the movie. So none of it's real.
It's just she was somebody they're interested in because
she has a following and so the following will guarantee fans
for the movie. It's like, it's like the same
premise of just like making ATV Show based off a movie that
already has fans in the hopes that some of them will watch it
so that the project is less likely to fail.
It's like the same thing. That's why there's a million
Spider Man movies. I like the new Spider Man.
I mean, I haven't actually seen the old Spider Man, so like, I
can't really. Why are there 10 of them though?
Why do we keep remaking Spider Man movies?
Just leave it alone because it's easy.
Apparently it has a fan base, but yeah, but that doesn't work
with like people who like, act in social media.
Tik Toks is not the same that playing yourself is not the same
thing as actually acting, which is what this is demonstrating.
And I think this is a good thing to have cause too many people
think they're influencers or are trying to be influencers and
that doesn't always translate into actual acting cause like
she's not trained at all or didn't actually do any acting
outside of whatever she does on social media, you know.
So it's just like a modern commentary of something that
happens nowadays. I thought was she was really
annoying but I thought that was a really interesting thing to
comment on. Yeah, so.
They kind of forget about her halfway through the season, I
feel like. She doesn't mean anything.
She's pointless. It was literally just for that.
And just she's a McGovern for the relationship drama with
Gabriella, with Gina and Sorry I and knock off Troy like.
Knock off Troy. Good luck to you.
OK, but it doesn't matter because Danny gets fired and
Gina gets the part instead. Oh no.
Who could have saw that coming? Well, I mean they show you in
the first see episode. Oh my God, the first scene in
the first episode, that Gina's gonna be the part in the part.
Basically, Gina becomes a lead to cause drama because it's
Ricky's senior year and Gina started in season three her her
character arc to become who she is basically, and it continues
here. Yes.
So what I was gonna say is we see her in the first scene.
That's where I was. Yeah.
It took me so long, like I was sitting there like, is that, You
know? Is like, who is that?
I don't know why it took me forever to realize it was her.
I thought it was like just another person, 'cause I didn't
expect it to be her. So I don't know why I some
things took me a really long time to understand in this show
and I don't know where my brain was.
It was distracted by the song probably, and there's music
playing and. I don't listen to lyrics, like,
understand lyrics enough until like I actually sing it and
learn it. So yeah, it's gonna it's there's
another point in here that I make that I didn't understand
until I listened to the song. OK, so But this opening scene
was so nostalgic and getting to see the characters again.
It was just so much fun getting to see them feed those
characters again. And then they finally confirmed
that Ryan is gay. Finally.
Finally, fucking Disney. It took this spin off thing.
Way to go, yes. Ryan has a wonderful partner
with twins on the way. Very cute.
So after that opening, we actually get into the show and
we start this season with messy queers.
That's all I could think of. Like that.
They're all it's messy. And it's the writer's fault that
it's messy. It didn't need to be.
You didn't? No.
So I hate this. Again, it's just relationship
drama to have as the tension when we didn't need any of this.
But please, at least for seven, Carlos, yeah.
So we'll get more into details as we keep going.
I this one is kind of like goes along with the season, but just
an overview of the messiness. Seb is currently not speaking to
Carlos because he thinks Carlos cheated on him because of the
documentary, because of the scenes that he was leaving this
year. I guess they call it with this
other dude that I don't actually remember his name and then it
doesn't. I call him Pumpkin Dude because
of a the episode. So Ashlyn and Maddox are giving
each other a relationship advice, which Gina doesn't
understand why they're doing this and Girls same.
It's flirting. It's just flirting, yeah.
So the basically the all it is the whole time that they're
spending the whole time trying to help each other with
relationships that are never gonna work.
Out because anyway. Well, also because it's Disney,
none of the relationships work out because it's.
This is also a ridiculous plot point, because not that I like
the Ashlyn Maddox stuff, not that I'm not hating on that.
I think it's ridiculous from how they wrote it because at the end
of season three we didn't talk about this, but like Big Red
comes to the prom or whatever and basically tells Ashlyn,
like, you're the love of my life.
We were meant to be together and.
It's like why put that? In there I just yeah, it's it's
in the. Middle there, it's in the middle
of them doing the show. Like, OK, hold on, let's get
into that real quick. Big Red leaves the show in the
middle of it. Like not during intermission.
In the middle of it, they're live streaming it.
So he's walking in the aisle where the camera is and and he
asked Ashlyn if she could talk. She's literally performing.
Yeah, she has a 20 minute break because of ensemble life.
But like, I know, this was time to talk.
This was so unnecessary. I don't know why they wrote any
of it. Like you said, the sequence
itself is ridiculous. And then the conversation is
ridiculous because then they just break them up the next
season. So it's just like, I'm almost
glad it didn't continue, 'cause I'm worried about Ashland and
Maddox Spoiler, because they just keep breaking everybody up
and they're just like, yeah, it's end game, it's going to be
great. And then they break them up
immediately and it's like, what are we doing?
Like what is the? What are we doing?
I get their teenagers. I do.
But like, why put that in there? That was really weird.
I don't know, but I just, I just want all the cuteness.
Like I know you need drama in a show, but.
Like right I. Just kind of see them.
Cute. But I also what I don't like
about this show sometimes is that like, the drama isn't
actually drama. Like they had Ricky and his
parents great. They had like Gina and her
parents, great, EJ and the college stuff, great.
But then they just like, shoehorn in just like
relationship drama, to create drama.
Like because they're like, well, there's not enough.
We have to like make them break up or we have to like make a
misunderstanding where it's like you could have done so many
other things to create drama that wasn't just like, yeah,
there's like drama. I I prefer more outside.
Than like than. 3rd chip Exactly, which is easy to do in
a high school. Yeah, it's just they always have
to force tension with the romantic characters as the drama
where it's like why? Why can't why couldn't like Seb
and Carlos go on the journey of like Seb's not out to his dad?
That could have been their drama.
Why create this weird like we need to talk about?
That one later too. I don't think I have that in my
notes, but we just need to talk about how stupid that plot point
was. And.
Again, that's the plot point that shoehorned in.
But like the relationship drama was the focus.
It's like the choices like that I don't like from the writing in
the show. I wish they would have like took
take the foot off the pedal there and like focus on other
stuff 'cause like the characters at this point are very fleshed
out and like 3 dimensional and it's a like play with that
instead of playing with like weird, petty.
I don't know. It's like reality show drama and
it's like why this is scripted, Why are we doing this anyway?
But like the Ashland, to go back to Ashland, Madison, their whole
thing of just like texting each other constantly about other
people is such a like useless lesbian thing that happens where
you're just like, yeah, girl, your boyfriend, blah blah blah
blah blah blah. But you're like secretly in love
with them. Like that's kind of real life.
So, like anyway. But Gina spends so much time
with Ashlyn that, like, she knows exactly what's going on.
And I love that she tells Ashlyn to keep her eye on the prize.
And it just makes Ashlyn freak out even more.
She's like, what's the prize? Why won't she tell me?
And she knows she's not dumb. Like we mentioned, Ashlyn spends
the first few episodes constantly texting Maddox like
that's all she's doing and smiling at her phone instead of
being in the moment. So now I know the crush is
mutual. It has been the whole time.
Also. It's easier when you're a baby
gay and like, OK, like what? In season 3 when she didn't
realize the what the she didn't see the rainbow on the wall kind
of thing. When she finally did, that in
and of itself is scary and you have to process all that shit.
But then to be like she had big feelings about Maddox the whole
time. Hence like I was snapping at you
too. Not just my gay awakening.
So the crush was there the whole time.
But then to watch the documentary trailer and be like,
oh, she actually likes me, that changes everything when you're
like, not only is she queer, so I know she's an option, but she
likes me. She's more of an option, but
she's not physically in front of you.
It's 'cause they're texting, it's a lot easier to just, like,
be yourself and talk to them. It's less intimidating to have
her. It would have been another story
if, like, they were constantly together.
I feel like maybe they wouldn't have been texting and flirting
as much. It would have been another way,
but like. Feel like it would have been
avoidance. Correct.
Exactly. It would be like, well, she has
a girlfriend. Or like, I don't know what this
means or like, whatever, but like, it's so much easier
virtually when you can just be like, well, whatever.
We're texting about her girlfriend.
I'm not flirting with her. Like she has the element of
denial as she's like. And we do see that like Ashton's
like. I can't walk now.
Why can't I just function normally?
Right, 'cause it was another it's another story.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
So I think this was played very realistically for like a little
baby gay coming into their queerness, 'cause that's kind of
how it goes, you know? Yeah.
When do you stop being a baby
gay? When you get your gay card in
the mail, when you do not get yours in, you gotta apply and
take the test. It's an exam.
Here he is. OK, so now we're gonna go talk
about someone that I'm sure of yours is extremely excited to
talk about. Let's talk about Gina.
All right. So I no, we've talked about her
a little bit, but I don't feel like we've gotten, we've given
Gina enough attention like through her journey, like her
arc, especially last season like we only brought her up about
with EJ breaking up. So I just wanted to give her a
little bit of time in this episode.
So we talked about in season one how Gina came in as the New Girl
and she didn't know where she fit.
I mean, she's used to being the new kid, so she's always
reinventing herself. And in this season, we see
flashbacks, which I really hate flashback episodes, and like
they're new scenes, but still I don't like those episodes.
Like we don't have enough time to do that.
Okay. But like, it gave me a nostalgia
over. I was like, what is this?
Because it gave me a nostalgia from like TV back in the day
when you'd have like 100 episodes per season and they're
like, we don't know what to do. So they would just do like a
best of highlight reel and that would be the episode.
I felt like that's what I was watching because I was like, is
this what happens when you actually get Four Seasons of a
television show nowadays? They're like, well, we don't
know what to do. So let's like, throw in some
deleted scenes and, like, fill the episode with that.
And that's basically what this felt like.
I hate it so much. I really wish.
No, I don't think I there is some good lines.
I I do bring up some lines in there so like the in between
those scenes I liked, but I hate going backwards.
Let's keep going forwards like you.
Sometimes you have to go backwards to go.
Forwards, but like, the stuff that we learned wasn't even like
that important. So we we found out that Ricky
and Gina like Gina's the reason that Ricky even auditioned.
And then because Ricky was auditioning, Gina auditioned,
which doesn't make sense because she was already in the theater.
That's. But to be fair, most of it, most
of it did track to what actually was happening in season one.
But it also doesn't make sense because Gina's whole business
was like, Oh yeah, I'm so into like theater and dancing and
shit. So, like, what do you mean she
wasn't gonna audition? Like, in what universe She was
they also? Really.
Played up the bad girl thing like she was not like that as
much like it was more of like a caricature.
They were all caricature. They were all one-dimensional
characters. Let me first get they 'cause
they were trying to be Glee. So yeah, but exactly.
So now you have 3 dimensional characters and you're like,
let's flesh out what happened in season one.
And that's kind of what they were doing, which was.
The scene between Ashlyn and Courtney was pretty cute because
that one was great. Yeah, you saw how Ashlyn did not
have friends. You got to see because we didn't
see any of them in season one. That's what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I just got it. I just got the line.
That was interesting. Please flesh out the characters
that weren't characters in season one.
They were just supportive, tertiary characters at best.
So yeah, seeing scenes with them, it's like this would have
been great if you put this in season one to begin with and
gave them lines 'cause they're great.
As well as the Carlos scene, 'cause that's when we saw like
that he was bullied, like and was hit like right before.
Yeah, this whole thing started and that's why Miss Jen took him
under his wing, her wing, and it's just amazing.
So what you're. Saying Caitlyn is we didn't need
the Gina Ricky shit because. No.
No, we didn't need that at all. Nobody cares like.
The only thing is like. Oh my God, they are meant to be
together because they they for the reason that each other
auditioned for the show. But no Ricky was there.
Chasing Olivia Rodrigo. That's not what, Like you can't
wreck your act. If you'd be like, just kidding,
like, let's erase her out of the show even more.
Be like, no, he was there for Gina the whole time.
It's like, really? That's convenient now that
Olivia Rodrigo's gone? Isn't that convenient?
But we also, we didn't get Maddox and Jet until the 3rd or
4th episode, the third episode in the season.
They're not even in the flashback scenes.
They're just in the little midway things.
And I and I just want more Maddox.
So. So like, I don't like the
flashbacks, just put them into the I really, really hate
flashback episodes. Can.
You tell, I can tell. And I think that's a remnant of
growing up with television. That wasn't slow.
When you have 20 episodes a season, you can have episodes
that are literally about nothing, like there's a
bottleneck. There's like not even that.
There's an episode of the Gilmore Girls.
It's just about Rory trying to find a bracelet.
That's the whole episode. Like, forget that one.
That is the whole. Episode.
That's the plot like, but it like fleshes out point like it's
sometimes you need. That you?
Need it to slow down so you can just like process everything and
like let the characters relax. But now when seasons are like 6
episodes, it's just go, go, go, go, go.
So then when it slows down like this, you have this reaction
where you're like, we're not moving, we're not moving.
But it's like television was never meant to be a movie and
it's like now we constantly have to keep going before we get
cancelled. It just, it's a product of where
we are and it sucks. And I'm sorry, I feel like. 13
episodes were is a good place. Like, I feel like that one.
This season 2 was 12 episodes, and I think I like that one a
little more because it was able to do more in the season but
need episodes and to use one as a flashback episode, that was
bullshit. I just want more, but I don't
know. Television in general needs to
change because this model we have right now does not work,
no. We're I That's a whole nother
episode. A whole different.
Episode We're. Creating throwaway content right
now. Like that's basically what
Disney. Disney used to market so much
and do. Like, even for this show, season
one, they did so much and now and in between season one and
two, after like season 2 started, they did nothing.
I feel I at least I haven't seen, I mean I haven't watched
it as it was airing, but you don't see like the shorts on
YouTube anymore, like the holiday special, anything like
that. They're like, oh, we don't care.
And I mean, they probably blame COVID, but they're not doing
anything. Really.
That's not just Disney. No, but I just noticed with
them, 'cause I know them as well, OK?
Anyway, back to Gina. I'm still now.
I'm just still like, enraged by this episode.
Freaking flashbacks. OK, so once Gina doesn't feel
like she is directly competing with Nene and like she finally
got the stay somewhere because of Ashland, yes, yes, the aura.
I know you have an issue with this.
I do. I have an issue with Gina doing
the same thing to the director later.
And I'm like, again, and what planet is this gonna happen?
Oh, no. OK, we we'll talk about that
real quick then. OK?
So she talks Quinn into doing 20 pages of a script in one day,
first of all. Oh, there's that, too.
I didn't even mean that one. But yeah, OK, this one, this
one's also egregious. Yeah, please.
This is what I'm saying. But in these shows where, like,
kids rule the the whole thing, I'm like, this would never
happen in real life. Get.
Out of here. This could never happen in real
life cause Oh my God oh God I just can't I can't even get it
out. Like how outrageous 20 page, you
know that they're like trying to pick an outrageous number on the
set and you know everyone else. It was more of a this is what
happens behind a set and like all like the jokes, what they
would normally film. I feel like is at most like 3/4
of a page. I think that's what we were
taught in school because there's so much set up and things and
Quinn like talked about how she like we'll probably do the scene
50 times. Even if you do it in one take,
you still have multiple setups because you need redundancy.
The editors need think different takes and different angles.
Yeah, like 20 pages would take you two weeks.
That's not totally true because like it depends on like what the
pages are. Right, it depends on not that
this is this isn't an action movie or anything like that, but
like if it was like dance choreography like.
Because. So for reference, one page and a
script should be one minute. So like an so a movie is like
typically 120 pages and a like a comedy would be like 20 to 30.
So like this is how much they were trying to do.
And if it's a montage then forget about it.
And they did do some montage stuff, which is way more setups.
Yeah, I know, too much anyway. But I think that's also the
point because they also make the joke with we can just do A1 take
and I can walk the Steadicam up through it because I used to be
a choreographer, which does not relate to that.
I know what. Is this I hate, I hate this
drives me nuts in these shows with the kids just like take
over and it's like you don't know what you're talking about.
Like, no, it's why children can't be in charge of shit.
Like, no. But they pan over to the
Steadicam operator when Quinn says it's not that heavy and you
just see him. Right.
See the the poor person, that whole thing was nuts.
But then at the end when they're like, yeah, we're gonna go film
this in New Zealand, cause tax breaks and it's cheap.
And Gina's like, I accept the role only if we film it right
here. And I'm like, on what planet is
this gonna happen? Like you don't get to make that
demand. Like there's contracts and money
and stuff and like what? You're a nobody.
Like, get out of here. Like, but again, like they were
setting up Season 5 and they're like, yeah, we're gonna stay in
Salt Lake. And it's like, 'cause the kids
said. So It's like, it's stuff like
that that I hate, 'cause it reinforces bad behavior.
Then people are just like, yeah, then I can make demands when
I'm, you know, 16, I think I know everything.
And it's like, no, that's how that works.
Quinn did tell her to make headlines.
No, I know that that's not so contracts were definitely
already in place like that's. Never been working that night.
Like there's I read 1 Fan Fiction where they're where
they're like, Quinn ends up telling them, oh, the studios
won't let us get out of the New Zealand thing.
So we have to go to New Zealand fan fiction writer that was.
Bullshit. Fan.
Fiction. Fixes everything.
Let's be real. There's like some season four
things that like are even better than.
Like the show. It's I'll bet, yeah.
It just keep going off on rants. But I have problems with things
like that. It's just ridiculous.
I didn't even think of it. I'm just like, OK, cool.
Not actually get to stay together.
I'm glad. Right, but like, think about it
for two seconds. It's like, in what planet is
this gonna happen? That's so stupid and far
fetched? It's wild.
Not that all of this isn't wild, but, you know, Gina.
Kids shows, man. That's why I don't like them.
Too unrealistic? So Gina's trying to figure out
who she is and where she fits because she's finally gets to
stay. That's where we started with all
of this, but we talked about that in a second episode.
What I think is really important to talk about is in season
three, everyone kept talking about how Gina, one point O was
back because she was like competitive, trying to get the
part. And Gina like, kept denying it
because, like, they're making her feel like that's terrible of
her. Like that was awful that her old
personality was coming back and she needed to be this person who
was always caring, always nice, never got competitive.
But like, really that is a part of her.
She is competitive and she goes for what she wants.
'Cause she had to like she's always the new kid, so, like,
she needs to be able to create the opportunities for herself.
Also, you guys are all in an environment, AKA theatre, that
has competition built into it. How can you be like, Oh yeah,
no, you need to be a loving rah rah theatre kid.
She's trying to like. She's not like, she's like
working crew, like she's trying to be like the lead in the play.
Like that is a competition in and of itself.
Like, that's how that works. You can't be mad at her for
that. Like, that's insane.
Yeah. So she's like starting to
realize that that is a part of her.
She doesn't have to 'cause I I think in Season 2, she was
trying to change more to be who people wanted her to be because
she wasn't fitting in. Yep.
And she and her walls were coming down.
So she is being able to open up, but she has to figure out who
she actually is and how to balance these two ginas.
And as I was thinking about this, I finally realized that
that is what the song she sang called Balance was about.
So I wrote. I have some lyrics from that
song written down in the song she sings.
I feel like it's my time not the old me 2.0 me know the real me
is about to shine. And in another part she talks
about like them like 1/2 and half thing and then again she
says and maybe before I was only half of me but now I trust in my
instincts and I I'm loving what I see.
So, like, I just, I love that song in general, just because I
I love all the things, like telling you to love for
yourself. Because like, that's what that
age group really needs to understand.
Because there's so much stuff telling kids to be this certain
way, like be like Danny the influencer, but these so like
Ashlyn, Courtney, Gina, they're all learning to love who they
are without people telling them who they should be.
You know what this reminds me of?
I know it's. It's not just kids.
Adults need to hear this too, and particularly women.
So this reminds me of the monologue in the Barbie movie
where America Ferrera was basically saying, like the the
impossible balancing act. It's like you have to be smart,
but not too smart. You have to be like, you know,
driven but not too competitive. That's exactly what Gina's going
through. It's that, oh, she's the mean
girl. It's like, was anybody mad at
Ricky for always going for the lead or being like, oh, he's too
competitive? No, it's put on Gina the woman.
So it's like it's this is very much like a Barbie movie moment.
No, but Carlos is upset with him for getting the parts when he's
never prepared. And I agree with Carlos.
I agree as well. But like, again, You know what,
Carlos? Is definitely dogged in the show
as well, like. But like, yeah, like the the
same double standard does not put on any of the men like.
And let's go back to season one, is anybody really mad at EJ for
being competitive when it comes to theater?
Like, no. No.
No, but we're mad at Gina Barbie movie.
This is a Barbie movie moment. And it's not just that's clean.
I mean, I think everyone loves that scene, but that scene is so
American fur is amazing that. Whole movie is amazing.
Turn this off and go watch the Barbie movie.
I. Finish this.
It's so good. But yeah, like, it's something
everyone needs to hear. Everyone because yeah, I I
understand what they're going for.
But like, why is it the woman's potline?
It's a double standard. That's.
Fair Most of the guys are just about the I don't know, he has.
His own thing going on, But like, no one calls him out for
like being competitive about theater.
He's called out by Ashlynn for like being toxic as fuck to
people Like yes, which is great, but like, no one cares that he's
hyper competitive about theater. But here's Gina being
competitive about theater and they're like, wow, I can't
believe you're being 1.0. Like, super competitive.
What? It's just wild.
I mean, you're in an environment that inherently has
competitiveness in it. So it doesn't make sense to me.
It's not like you're getting together to bake cookies for
like a sale or something. You're like, wow, Gee, they're
being so competitive about this, like something that doesn't
require being competitive, but it's like you're being
competitive for an actual reason, like, and that's OK.
That's part of this. Also, it's great for the
documentary, that too. I know, like there's a lot of
people who don't like Gina, but I I say I just feel like I see
her more. Also, I mean, I paid attention
to her more since she was the only actor that I knew coming
into the show. But I like her in Season 4, even
though she's. I know she's out there with some
of the things that she gets. But back to she's.
Like, actually the lead in season four.
So you're supposed to care about her.
And she, like, has more time and more focus in general, 'cause
she, like, went from background to, like, being the lead.
Like, if you go from season one to season four.
So like, yeah, like, it's designed to get to know her
more, 'cause she's like, taking over the poll that Olivia
Rodrigo left, you know? So yeah, they definitely made
her like starting in Season 3 they're like, OK, you are the
new Olivia, right? Which that I that's what I don't
like. Whereas I was like let Gita just
be Gita. I was like, when she's getting
competitive again, I'm like good.
Go like guess be competitive, be interesting.
But they they tried to make her into Nini and I'm like, why like
let her be her own thing. It's annoying.
Like they gave her Ricky. Like they just like they're just
like, it's OK you're just gonna, you know.
Again, let her be single. Why did she need a?
Boyfriend. Yeah, you know what?
We needed more. Singleness.
Yes. Like, let her be single and
figure who shit out. Like since the two weeks with
AJ, AJ didn't work out. It just drives me crazy.
You in the two weeks. It's just ridiculous and far
fetched and they just, it was just very much they were trying
to break them up because they wanted her to be the new Nene
and like needed to put her with Ricky because Ricky can't be
single either. Otherwise, what is the show?
So I was just like, who cares like waiting for EJ and Ricky to
be together, right? I go do that.
Let leave Gina alone. Let Gina just be Gina because
it's like she spends all this season crying over a boy and
it's like, I don't want to see this.
Yeah, OK, let's let's finish off her arc.
That's why I don't talk about Gina.
I have problems with her stuff. But This is why there's two of
us. We both like different things,
and we both see different things.
And I try to see that's pretty fun.
You do? I try.
You know, it gets me into trouble sometimes.
I get, you get, yeah, whatever. So Gina's trying to figure out
how to balance. Like this balance of herself and
she was trying to figure out what she wanted.
And yes, she should have given EJ more room since he had a lot
going on that summer 2 weeks. Two weeks.
It wasn't the whole summer or just two weeks.
But she saw that what the next year would be like and since he
would be in college and she would still be in high school
and she didn't want that to be her relationship like her always
just following him around and him not having time for her,
which I don't think is unfair to say.
I don't think that's unfair, But then her plot becomes that with
Ricky and it's like, yeah, he's closer, but she has that exact
experience. So it's like she was destined
for this. They just wanted her with Ricky,
that's all. That's just the right.
But she like, she grows enough to understand that, oh, I'm now
in E JS because she has a scene where she's like, I ended my
relationship because this is not what I wanted and now I'm in E
JS place and Ricky's in my. So like, she understands what
Ricky is feeling and I feel like she feels a little guilty for
breaking up with EJ. Yeah, she learned empathy at E
JS expense. That's what happened.
That's the plot. But that is how you grow.
It's true. We learned that two weeks aren't
everything. Two weeks aren't real life.
But because she knows what Ricky's feeling, she does make
it a point to like, try to spend time with Ricky.
Like, that's why she gets Quinn to somehow superhumanly film
half this movie in one day. Like, what the Did they finish
this movie a month ahead of schedule?
Like, what the hell? Like, I don't understand.
But anyway, that doesn't matter. So she is trying to understand
Ricky more. Which, you know what?
I don't think Ricky ever tries to understand that.
I mean, he did by the end understand that Gina needed to
do these things, which is some growth from him.
Great. I just think EJ was better for
her than Ricky and it drives me crazy.
You are a Portwell fan. I don't care.
I just think she is a much more mature person than Ricky.
EJ is a much more mature person. They made a better.
Well, he matured over the show the first season.
I would not put them together correct.
Because they grew, right. So yes, in season three beyond,
they make more sense than Ricky and it just drives me nuts that
she has, she has that plot line anyway and it it was just very
clear the writers were trying to put her together with Ricky
because she's the new Nini and apparently your own thing, OK?
That's me crazy. Something else really quickly
about this her being with Ricky. So apparently in the first
season, in the hat she gives him, it says I love you too,
Ricky. First of all, how has Ricky not
seen that tag this entire time and who they talk about her not
wanting to say it first. So like, I feel like that was
added in later and it it was, it was just really weird.
It was weird. It was weird because then why
did she go with EJ like she was talking to EJ that same season.
OK, Teenagers, man. I don't understand them.
I don't understand them when I was one.
Right. It's Disney magic.
We'll just track it up to that. OK, OK, but but now we can move
on. I think my favorite episode,
which is the Halloween episode. Let's get to the gay stuff.
So usually I do not like Halloween episodes.
Why? I don't know.
I don't know what it is. I don't.
Because, like, I mostly see, like, the Disney ones.
So, like, the Disney ones are pretty stupid.
That makes sense. Like growing up like that's also
I yeah, I just don't like, I wasn't raised to really like
Halloween. So it's just not something that
like, I'm into and they always like, try to be scary, but
they're never scary and it's it. Shows, though, it's just an
opportunity for the character to, like, explore things they're
afraid of doing, 'cause they can hide behind the costume.
So usually something big will happen in that episode that the
character wouldn't normally do. So they're fun because you get
the characters to get out of their comfort zones.
So that's why I like them. And that's what basically
happens here. So, like, it's a great episode.
Yes, because Halloween's the best.
Like. OK, so I have already.
Gushed about this episode slash 1 scene in particular, but
because there's most likely people who have not seen our
LGBTQ Ships episodes, go watch those after this if you haven't.
I get to do it all over again and I'm so excited now.
I actually know what you're talking about, you know.
So glad for OK, so bring it. The orange is like, sitting
there watching me do this. So, like this excited
explaining, trying to explain what this show's about and what
this scene was. But it's so hard when you're the
one who knows what's going on. OK, so this episode is all about
Madeleine pining, OK? That's not the only thing.
That's what I like. This episode also makes me laugh
so much, especially when Ashlynn pulls out so she has these tarot
cards from her psychic. She pulls out the death card and
Carlos does present she's stressed as death.
He's upset. He laughs so much.
OK, so in order for this episode not to go on for four hours
because it's already an hour, we've got so much to go.
Sorry, we're just gonna skip to the best scene that I this is my
favorite thing out of the entire show.
So Maddox is gearing up to scare everyone because she is still
upset that she didn't get to do the woman in the woods scare
because Jet ruined everything. So Jet is trying to help her
make this one even better. Like, yeah, you shipped Jet.
Yeah, so while Ashlyn is reading these tarot cards, Maddox
pretends to be electrocuted. So it's just the lights flicker.
You see her with like, fog smoke coming off of her head or
something. It's.
Pretty intense and. Then she just falls over.
Oh my God, I'm sorry. I'm trying to get through this
because I could just see it in my head again, Ricky says.
What do we do? Ashlyn gets off and says someone
called an ambulance runs over to Maddox and yells, I'll give her
mouth to mouth as a friend. It's just the line delivery.
Julia Lester kills that line. Good comedic.
He has very good comedic timing for sure.
Just the way she yells as a friend.
Like she turns to everyone and makes sure that they know it's
just as a friend. But also like, again, like this
is the again, this is the classic Halloween shit because
it's a character doing something they wouldn't normally do,
which, yeah, obviously the electrocution thing, but it's
like there is no hesitation of just like feelings on display
from Ashley. It's just immediate, like just
she's acting as she normally wouldn't in other circumstances.
So kudos love it. Oh, she did.
Great in this episode. I mean, in every episode, but
like, so once. So Ashlyn's about to give her
mouth to mouth and then Maddox says Boo.
And this poor girl looks so distraught afterwards and
probably embarrassed because it was just a joke.
And she's like, well, one, there's disappointment, 'cause
she didn't get to kiss her and like 2 like she was like so in
it and like trying to save her. So I just her little heart can't
take it right now. No, literally.
I think it's because I I think she also like perhaps this too
was I didn't realize how much you meant to me moment and like
until this just happened because like she freaked the fuck out
like like you would if your wife was dying.
Like she's like, holy shit, I'm about to lose my partner of 20
years. Like that's how she behaved in
this scene and then to have it be a joke.
I think she's like, holy fuck, I can't believe I just reacted
like that. I think that's also part of it.
It's not just that I'm embarrassed How bare.
How dare you make fun of, like, make this a joke?
I think she was like, wow, that was my reaction to this.
I did not expect myself to do this.
It's the magic of Halloween. So I think.
That makes sense. Yeah, exactly.
So I think a lot. Her face where she's just like
staring into space, it's just like, wow, I can't believe I
just did that. Like, that was my first
reaction. Was freaking the fuck out
immediately like and she's like clearly not okay.
Like after it happens. Like she doesn't calm and she's
very rattled by, like her reaction and the way she felt
and the moment. People notice that, like, she
looks like she's about to cry. Right.
And because she's like, I almost just lost, I thought, I like.
Even though it was fake. She's like, I felt like I was
losing you for real. And, like, the feelings are real
despite the circumstance being a ruse, you know?
So like, she still has those feelings, like, and that's why
they point that out. They're like, are you OK, 'cause
no, she's not OK. The feeling she's having is
really real in this moment and I don't think she expected it to
get real like that and to feel this way and doesn't know what
to do with that. It's about time, though, that
she realizes it. You know what?
Fucked up. Way to figure it out.
But yeah, like it really is. It's fucked up.
Like that's terrifying to like. It's a roller coaster for her in
this episode. Yes.
So later Ashlyn is alone in Gina's attic and she's working
on a song which, you know, also kind of doesn't make sense to me
because why is she working on a song that's not in her house?
And she has a piano, 'cause I don't think Gina has a piano.
Does Gina have a piano? I don't think we've ever seen
one piano. Who the fuck knows?
So of course no one else is up there, but Max comes up.
Obviously not. No one in Gina's bedroom is.
Is it I? It looks like her bedroom, but
then she says attic, but and where's her bed?
'Cause I know her bed is usually there, so like, I'm really
confused. The bed was still there.
Or I. Don't know?
No, the bed's not there. She moved it for whatever this
is. Why were they doing this in the
attic? They just.
Decided. Everything.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. OK, so Maddie's comes in and is
like picking up cups or something.
I also don't know why she's doing that.
I mean, I guess she wants to be a good guest or something.
She's trying. To hang out with Ashlyn?
And is Loki just lingering, pretending to tidy?
That's what's happening. OK, see, Theora's here because
she reads more into things and I'm just see what's going on
actually. You have to like think about the
motivation like. I'm working on it.
Motivation. She's trying to be near her and
find an excuse, so she's like, I guess I'll tidy and make small
talk with you and that's basically what happens.
This whole scene is just really cute.
Yes. And I I also love how she reacts
when Ashton's like and I think Emmy might have a crush on your
brother. And I mean, I mean looks too way
too little for. It no, I'm like this has got to
be illegal in some states like get out of here with us, but.
They never pursue that. Thank God.
I don't want to see it. But Ashlynn tells Maddox that
she's working on a song for Emmy and Jett.
Since I play Chad and Taylor and Maddox asked to hear it, and
Ashlyn says as if you promise you don't judge me.
Maddox's response is, oh, Ash, you know I can't do that.
Judging people is my specialty, which I feel like she doesn't
actually judge people. No, I feel like this was like
playful banter because at this point you have to think like the
two of them have been texting like crazy, right?
And so you do get to know people through text.
And they're, she was like laughing at the phone.
So obviously, like, Maddox was like doing jokes like this.
So I think she understands, like, and Ashley understands
Maddox's sense of humor. And that's what this was.
This was just like, I'm like, like, I'm texting you like, I'm
just making jokes with you like, 'cause I'm sure she's like has
like, you know, Ashley has sent her stuff where she's like, oh,
I'm doing something creative or whatever.
And Maddox did this kind of, like nagging shit that she's
doing. Now this is obviously, this is
like lesbian flirting, what I want.
But like, I think she knows her well enough to understand that
she's joking to make her comfortable again, 'cause like,
sharing your art's a big deal. Like, you know, that's something
very personal and. This is just to.
Ease her into doing it. That's what this is, I love.
Talking to you about stuff Theora.
Anyway, that's why we see her this.
Scene is also cute and there's a lot going on in this scene.
Like that's fun and not annoying.
Well, it gets annoying at the end for external reasons.
We'll get there. We'll get there.
So Maddox ends up joining Ashlyn when she's singing, because of
course, everyone magically knows songs and dances in the musical
world, but you just have to get over that fact.
You just. Yes, that's true.
And it's really annoying. But here they they did it well.
Where like, she basically like as Ashlyn's cause Ashlyn knows
it, 'cause she wrote it and so she's like doing it.
And then like, Maddox is clearly like paying attention,
listening, and then she picks the notebook up and kind of like
reads ahead. So she's like, yeah, it's better
natural. Yeah, 'cause she's like, OK,
Like, as somebody who like does theater also like, I understand
how to like improv this. Basically, it's not like they're
out in the world, just doing whatever.
Like this felt more like how that scene should go.
Or she's like, OK, I have your notes with the words.
I can hear your melody, I hear what you're doing.
And so she kind of plays off of her.
It's like an improv. Man, I wish I had that talent.
Some people really do have the improv capability of doing that
and I'm just like, yes. Have you ever seen the improv
dancing? It's wild.
Like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like people who've never danced
together just improv amazing dances.
This reminded me of that. It felt more natural and like an
improv scenario. Not like a we're bursting at the
song because we're Disney princesses kind of thing.
Like, yeah, so this felt good. This, this scene was just, I
mean the whole episode I feel like is really good.
But like this, their moments in this episode were just so well
done. Yes, and.
A finally, but B it was also like, yes, executed and well
thought out for the two who these two actually are.
So I like, I like enjoyed it. Also love the lighting in this
room. There's also a lot of candles
for some reason, but. Well, I guess Halloween
spookiness. Yeah.
OK, it's less weird than when Ricky was by himself with the
the same amount of candles and a piano.
Like, he did that for himself. This is Halloween.
This one does make. You're supposed to have candles
and like, you see, like, some of them look like pumpkins and
there's like, you know, orange lights, 'cause it's a Halloween
party, it makes more sense. It's like they stumbled into
this little haven that they're having versus like, Ricky lit a
bunch of candles so he can sing a dramatic AF song.
I can feel that was staged. This was like, they kind of fell
into this little bubble. So that's what I mean.
Like everything about the way this scene was set up feels more
like a natural thing that's happening and not like a
manufactured thing, which a lot of the stuff sometimes feels
like that in shows where there's like they break out into song,
you know? Yeah.
And so, like it. It feels like they are having a
moment. Because they are.
They're just so cute and not cute when they're singing.
You could see on Ashton's face, just like she realizes just how
much so we you brought up earlier that she realized when
she. She already knew girl but.
Yeah, but you know in this thing like her singing like song is
very powerful for people in this musical theater world, like for
example, just in real life. So I found out yesterday that
Carlos and Seb are dating in real life and they've been
embarrassed in season one. And so Frankie plays.
Carlos said that he knew that he was a goner and was gonna have
like a huge crush on Joe, who plays Seb when he was playing
the piano and was doing musical theater songs in between scenes.
So music is just a huge thing. So they're really connecting in
this moment. And you see on Ashlyn's face,
like, just how much like she wants her.
Like, I just, well, I love Julie.
Also, isn't the song about feelings between two people?
So it's like she's put her heart and soul into a song that's
about two people, like, expressing feelings about each
other. But it's like about them, like
not knowing how they feel. It's just like I just want you
like that's it. Right.
Because I think that like that didn't sink in until she had a
heart attack 5 minutes ago when she thought that X was dying,
like. And now it's like, OK, she's
this is her. This is Ashlyn admitting to
herself by singing this out loud that like, yeah, this is real.
I actually like you. That's what this isn't that.
It's like on the nose. But like in combination with the
the sequence of, like, the scare thing that she freaks the fuck
out is sitting with those panicking feelings that she
didn't realize she was gonna have.
It's like, OK, I can't deny this anymore.
Like, yeah, it's like I don't want you, like a best friend.
She's gonna start singing dress from Taylor Swift in 5 minutes,
'cause it's like, yeah, it's like, OK, I get this and I
understand now. That is the gayest song ever.
I don't think I've ever heard that song.
I mean, I I think you played it in that one.
Yes, I definitely. I'm sorry.
I played it for you. I'm.
Slowly learning OK. Trying to Swiftify Caitlyn.
It's working. I'm just there's too much music
to know. There's a Taylor Swift song for
everything, That's what I'm saying, and like it this
applies. There is and I need your help
with finding one to fit a certain thing.
Later on it no worries, cool challenge.
Taylor Swift episode Vault Edition coming eventually.
Eventually, Someday. Someday.
Anyway, before I start singing zombies, side note for this
scene, if you look at the piano, it is not plugged in and I'm
pretty. Sure.
I was like trying to look at like pianos and see if like
maybe there's like stuff that like gets charged or stuff.
Where is it? It has to be plugged in.
And it's not like a battery powered piano, 'cause I had what
keyboard like that, where you could do batteries or plug it
in, Yeah, but I don't know, this was like.
I don't know 20 years ago, I have no idea.
But it just so I was like I have a screenshot of it that I'm
looking at right now. It is not plugged in.
It's. It's not and you clearly see
that, but also I was trying to. Figure Well, obviously that was
a choice because at one point Maddox like circles the piano.
So like the bitch would have tripped and then died for real,
so that had a different ending. So we can't do that, obviously.
Or not killing the lesbian? No.
And like if she circled the other way, it wouldn't be
romantic. So like, I understand that from
like a choreography directing choice.
But yeah, plug in your pianos PSA if they need to be plugged
in. But Caitlin explain what happens
in the scene so. I have screenshots in front of
me and it's giving me all the feelings right now.
So. Explain it so.
So Ashley plays the song, and then what happens on the piano
that's not plugged in? And then what happens?
Explain it. Let's relive it.
So as you mentioned, Maddox comes over and sits next to her
to sing the harmonies and they just keep staring at each other
and Ashley just keeps like shit. I really, really like this girl.
And you know, Maddox is just like, Oh my God, I know I like
this girl since last season. And then they get closer and
closer and at the end they're about to kiss and they're like
this far apart. I I don't know how to.
Inches. Apart, inches apart they are.
Breathing each other in. Let's just say that and there's
looks of finally on everybody's face.
And Maddox is caressing, of course, 'cause it's what always
happens with. Women, Caitlin, there's always
face caressing. If it's not face caressing, is
it queer women? Like, if there has to be face
caressing, it just has to be. And Maddox as a lesbian knows
this. She's like, well, obviously
you're not gonna understand this unless I touch your face.
That's the universal side of. I like you as not a friend.
And Ashley's like, yes, I get it.
Just do it already. Ashley, what happens?
Ashley's letting Maddox come to her.
It's like, she's Maddox. Do she's?
Like girl do it. Come on, listen to the music.
Do it. But of course we get the window
opening right before they kiss and pumpkin dude hunters.
And you know what? Why pumpkin dude?
We could have had Magdalene in episode 4 if you would just go
away. Honestly though, when they get
together, it's really cute and I prefer this anyway.
It doesn't matter. This is the it's mutual and we
both know it now. Good.
Do they know it? No 'cause I.
Don't think they do. Yes, they do.
I mean, they do. You don't do.
This Caitlyn, you don't do the the face caressing.
Having Caitlyn, that is the confirmation that this is
mutual. But, like, it pisses me off.
I I It's not like pisses me off, 'cause like I understand their
whole journey. It's just because it's the last
season and they only get together at the end.
Spoiler alert that like, there was 4 episodes in between and I
just want them together and I want the cuteness.
And there's not enough cuteness, It's just for ventilating.
Yeah, we're greedy bitches. We want it all.
But like, I don't trust the show.
If they would have gotten together sooner, they would have
broken them up. And like, so I'm just like, it's
fine. They get together, they're
together, and it ends with them together.
Rather than like whatever the fuck happened with Big Red at
the end of season three, which was absurd, Like I was like
they're just wanting to get to break them off, like they're
together. It's fine.
All good.
We win. OK, but during that song there
is another scene that we have to talk about.
So. God yeah.
Carlos is walking outside and this knight in shining armor
comes up and Carlos tells them that they ran out of candy like
hours ago. Apparently the signage really
worked with going to the because because they made them go to the
attic to trick or treat and that makes no.
That's what I'm saying. It's like, OK, this was a choice
of just like, I don't want to make another set.
Everything's happening in the attic, which is insane.
Who lets strangers come through your house up?
Unless the bottom of the house was like a haunted house and the
kids had to go through the haunted.
Some people are like, love Halloween and do shit like that.
That's not the vibe I'm getting here.
It was just go to Gina's room. She'll do the trick.
Or you really think Gina's mother would, like, go all out
and make a haunted house? No, they don't have time for
their shit. Gina doesn't have time for it.
No. Exactly.
So this was what a choice this was to be like go to my attic
for candy. It was the.
Most randomest part of the besides pumpkin dude.
Like, I mean, pumpkin dude is the reason for it.
But I agree. But having this shit in the
attic was a choice. And I think they're just like,
we don't want to make another set.
This is Gina's house. It's the.
Attic, man. We should have just gone back to
Ashland's house. That's where everything.
Happened. I'm surprised.
This is but no, Maddox would have been too close like they
couldn't. They couldn't be that close into
Ashland safe space. Also, I'm surprised this didn't
happen at the high school, because everything happens at
the high school. Why wasn't this in the choir
room? Like, you know how shows do that
where they're just like, we'll just hang out at school.
I'm surprised. I'm honestly just surprised they
didn't do that. But here we are.
It's fine. It's whatever they do the.
Party's outside of school, though.
I know, but like a lot of the time, like schools a lot of
times give out candy and shit. So, like, I'm just surprised
they didn't do it because having it in an attic was weird choice
that. Means yeah.
Anyway, so who's the knight? Caitlyn.
It's EB. It's EB.
So 7 Carlos have a chat and we find out that the writers did
Seb really dirty. I don't this was the most out of
character thing that happens on the show.
So the whole drama with them is that the documentary was cut to
make it look like Carlos was hooking up with some rando,
which the Rando's the pumpkin guy and he's like listening to
all of this. It's.
Which is weird. I'm like, who are you?
I forgot about all of this. So.
But the real truth is that SAB was UPS like distancing himself
from Carlos because during the two weeks he kissed somebody
else and actually cheated on Carlos, which doesn't make any
sense based on who Seb is as a character.
Like that doesn't make any fucking like.
And when I say they like to insert relationship drama just
to have drama, this is the biggest example of that, like.
This was so unnecessary. Like why is Seb a cheater?
Like in what? Like what?
But it's not even just that. What got me is that Seb wouldn't
talk to Carlos because he thinks he cheated on him.
So like, they and he made this whole big thing about it.
Like that's not what Seb would do.
No. It's like.
No, no, no Seb. Seb wouldn't cheat on Carlos #1
#2 like. The way he's behaving is like a
person who basically is doesn't take responsibility for what
they did, but it's like projecting it all onto the other
person, which is not Seb. Also and like you can argue that
while he can't lie, so if he interacted with Carlos, then
like what he did would come out and like he's not ready to talk
about that. Obviously all of this doesn't
make any sense for like them. I'm like, why are we here?
This is so weird. This felt very forced to be like
a very forced. Plot.
It was I yeah, I basically just did block them out this season
because it's this storyline is really annoying.
Like I'm I'm here for Madeleine this season because you know,
they get better shit. But Seb tries to play him
cheating off and say it didn't mean anything and he continues
to only talk about his feelings and how how it has made him feel
distraught, but he literally gives Carlos zero time to
process it. Like Carlos sees like you just
broke his world. Like all he's been trying to do
is talk to you and make sure you are OK and you're you're only
caring about yourself and that is not what Zed would do.
No, like you said. That all of this was super out
of character like all of it. It just they the writers forced
this in there and this felt really for like this is a such
an outer and then who said cheats with is also insane like
the whole thing. It's just this is like soap
opera drama, like, yeah. And.
OK, so Speaking of that, let's go on to the next scene, which I
have titled The World's Most Beautiful Breakup.
Like, I wish this was the conversation they had at the end
of Season 3. Like.
Yes. It should have been.
Why was this not the conversation?
Because their conversation at the end of season three was big.
Red's like, you're it. You're the perfect girl for me.
You're my forever. I wanna marry you someday.
But and then this is where we're at.
But actually, I think that he's about to break up with her and
she's like, I I can I'm. Probably thinking it, Ashland is
also hoping that Big Red will break up with her, 'cause she
just realized she has crushes at all these women and she's like,
OK, great. But then he tells her the
complete opposite. He's like, no, you're the you're
the perfect person for me. We're gonna get married someday.
It's gonna be great. And then they when they interact
next in this season, they're breaking up.
Like, why was that there? It's just so weird.
Oh, so it's important to note that he has already done what
we're about to talk about when he did that speech to Ashland.
Yeah. None of this makes sense.
No it doesn't. This is this is out of character
for him too. Like, yeah, because they rubbed
them out of the No, no. Seb is No, Seb is not a main
character in this season. So like, they got rid of Seb and
Big Red last season. Kind of.
Mostly, Yeah. Yeah, they got rid of them.
They. Didn't go to camp, so they were.
Out. And then they forgot who they
were like the writers didn't like.
This feels like Glee or Glee would just forget who characters
are and write stuff. And you're like, what am I
watching? This is a Glee moment.
That's what it is. At least they try to explain
where they were, whereas in Glee season four, people didn't.
Big Red's just in. Egypt for some, Yeah.
OK. That one was weird.
I I understand. I don't understand why he went.
This was Cairo. I they put no thought into this.
This is my no, this was like, we have to.
Carlos and Saba been doing too good for too long.
Let's throw some drama in there. And then I don't know what the
hell this was all about. I think they're like going for
like the Ashland Maddox thing and they're like, well, Big
Red's solo factor because basically he was like, I'm gonna
marry you one day. So we gotta end this.
I don't know. They threw darts out of like a
on a globe and like he was in Egypt.
I don't know. Sure, whatever.
Let's not explain that. I do want to talk to a writer,
not not to be like, why'd you do that?
Was like, I just want to, like, know what the thought process
was. It's not.
It was a choice. And they made that choices.
These were choices. But we haven't actually talked
about what this is. So in the next episode after the
Halloween episode, Big Red shows up randomly.
Randomly. OK, he's just randomly back from
Cairo and Ashlyn finally has an honest conversation with him,
like she's not just letting him talk.
And unfortunately, Big Red admits that he was the one Seb
cheated with. So it this was after Seb
mentioned something. So it like seems like he was
only going to mention it because Seb had said something.
Again, if Seb never said anything he might not have like,
I don't know, but. Maybe.
But also like he hasn't been in an episode since.
So like when And like it's not something you tell her.
Like OK, she also was waiting to tell him something huge about
herself but was like I can't and she says it at the end.
I can't do this over a text. He wasn't going to do this over
a text either. So like yeah, maybe it reads
that way because of the sequence of like we the viewers find out
about Seb first, then about this.
But I think it was a this was an in person conversation we have
to have and I was literally in Egypt.
Yes, but I hate that Big Red tries to act cute and say
surprise when, like Ashlyn says, like you're the one sub cheated
with. But boy, cheating is not cute.
So no. And Ashlyn, I mean, luckily
she's not affected by it because, you know, she's got her
own shit going on. Well, she's been emotionally, we
never get into this, but she's been emotionally cheating on
him. Yeah, since camp.
So let's have. I have something about that.
And we never get into that. So that is also a form of
cheating. Yeah.
And they're like, we're just growing apart.
Like and I I wrote down that she really should have broken up
with him in the finale of last season.
Like that should have been. Why was that not the
conversation there? That was also.
How he says that they kiss ish. How do you kiss ish?
Like a? Peck probably.
Isn't that still a kiss? I don't know.
There's different kinds of kisses.
There's like romantic, like, OK, what Maddox and Ashlyn were
about to do in the other episode was gonna be more than like the
a kiss kiss versus like a PEC kind of thing.
That's not what they were about to do.
So there's, there's, there's. Kisses with emotions involved
and then they're just like, let me explore this and I feel like
that's what he was they were kind of doing, which doesn't
makes it makes sense for Big Red but it doesn't exploring his
bisexuality but it doesn't make sense for Seb at all.
Like, yeah, he was like, I guess lonely cause the two weeks
happened the two weeks. It's so stupid.
It was 2 weeks. Oh my God.
If your boyfriend goes to camp for two weeks and you can't hold
it together, what are you doing? Like, maybe you shouldn't be in
a relationship anyway. So, like, he's it could have
been like, I was lonely, he was there.
Like, it doesn't actually mean anything.
It was just like. It's still cheating.
Yes, but like their thing is like, I don't wanna.
I wasn't trying to break them up to get him.
It was just it happened, which like shit happens when you have
emotions. Like, it's.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
It's just like shit happens and sometimes it means something and
sometimes it doesn't actually mean anything to you, the person
doing it. Then after that, Big Red tells
her that it's his by origin story and he apologizes.
But this is the perfect opportunity for Ashlyn to open
up about how she had a crush on Val last summer and I.
She doesn't actually, like, come out and tell him she like, she
has to. She makes him figure it out
himself, 'cause she's like, do you remember Val from camp last
summer? And he's like, yeah, she was
pretty. And Ashlyn responds with Yeah,
she was. And then so Big Red figures out
that, oh, she likes. Her.
Yes. The way that I no you.
You get what I mean? Yes, we are both bisexual.
Great. And then she tells him that she
felt it again when she almost kissed Maddox, which she
basically just admitted to cheating on him as well.
Well, she didn't kiss him so, or kiss her so.
But if she had, wouldn't that have been cheating?
And would you have been as mad at Ashlyn as you are at Big Red
and Seb? But their conversation obviously
ends fine because they both basically cheated on each other
and knew they were growing apart like.
I don't know like. Something happens in Cairo, I
guess. And he's just like, yeah, we're
growing apart. It's fine.
I just hate that the 180, like, because the last time they were
together, it was a we're end game.
And then like now he's like, yeah, let's break up.
Like all this. Whatever happened off screen
completely changed everything. It's very weird.
I don't understand this. I don't understand why they
weren't just broken up to begin with.
And he comes back and they have the conversation with her like,
yay, we have this in common. But cool, there's closure now
with Big Red. Great and good for him by King
Red. Like, good for you.
But after that, Ashlynn asks if they just had the most beautiful
breakup in history and before, I would have agreed cause like it
was very mutual and stuff, but but doing episodes like this
makes me really think about what's going on.
And I saw things from other people who but made me
understand, yeah, they ended up fine, but they created a crappy
situation for other people. So like, yeah, they're fine, But
the other relationship that is affected by this is crap right
now. Yeah, and they were already
growing apart. So like, no, no, this is not.
Also like they were mutually cheating on each other, so like,
yeah. Like which?
Like, again, like, he kissed somebody else.
And then she was very much emotionally cheating with Maddox
and almost physically cheating. So, like, they have been broke.
So basically they were just admitting, yeah, we ended a
while ago, That's what they were admitting here.
And they're like, no hard feelings because I found some, I
found other people. You're looking at other people
like, great, let's just be friends.
Like, that part was mutual. But like, the situation is fine,
is fucked. And you're right, there's
collateral damage that isn't really like, it's just like, OK,
I guess those other people are going to be upset.
But I want to talk about, like our your opinions on the
cheating between Seb and Big Red, like those characters,
because I didn't think too much about it until someone else said
something and it's a totally valid concern that they brought
up. So I wanted to make sure that we
talked about it. So I saw some people say that it
should not like if Zeb was going to cheat, it should not have
been with Big Red because of the stereotype that people who
sexual are cheaters and can't be trusted.
Which is why some people won't even date someone who is bi,
which is also. Bullshit.
Yes, and you're By doing this, and also by not breaking up Big
Red and Ashlyn in Season 3, their writers made both Big Red
and Ashlynn stereotypes because they were both cheating on each
other with people of the opposite gender to.
Figure out their identity as. Well, which is pretty fucked up
if you think about it. Now had they broken up and Seb
cheats with which Seb cheating is just ridiculous.
But if Seb's cheating with Big Red?
Fine there, he's single, then that doesn't make him a bi
stereotype. It's whatever.
And then Ashlyn and Maddox's stuff is OK because, I mean,
Maddox had a girlfriend, which is not great, but like, it's
she's not a stereotype anymore. But they turned everybody into
stereotypes by making these weird choices here.
So yeah, I agree. I think that was very bad.
I think having Sub cheat was stupid to begin with.
Yeah. But they're like, they're
discrediting the progress that they've made with these queer
characters, Like they're basically throwing stuff out.
And I agree. After making points to be like
with the Carlos and the body type issues that he has like
with the the gay men stereotypes then to do this and throw the
the BI character or something, the bus was pretty fucked.
Like yeah, totally agree. That's a very excellent point.
Also sub avoiding Carlos and saying it is because of Carlos
cheating on him is very messed up and it hurts Carlos more than
even what Subb did because like Carlos is now like he was
gaslighting him into like thinking that it's his fault.
Correct. He was gaslighting him.
But people do that. Like when people are scared,
like it's it's scarier to like, admit you're the failure than
like harm another person. Like people do that.
That is a part of human nature. That's super fucked.
Like, that's realistic. It's shitty, but it's realistic.
So I I see that, but I don't see that from that character that
they set up like I can see EJ doing that like as a as a form
of self preservation in a scenario.
But like Seb, the guy who can't lie like this whole thing was,
so absolutely cannot lie. We've.
Seen that many times in the. Show it's a joke.
Ongoing joke. So, like, none of that.
That's what I mean. Like, this was so out of all of
this was out of character and ridiculous.
Like what? No.
But yeah, he was gaslighting him.
The whole thing like this storyline that they don't even
get into really until episode 4, like just to mention it, it it's
just too much for eight episodes because cheating is messy.
And I do agree that is way more complicated than what is
actually shown And and it it like basically showed that it's
on the other person to forgive the cheater so that the
relationship can be OK and like they did it so quickly as well
with a song. I mean, it's gonna be a song.
But like it they should have. They should have like taken a
break. I think that Carlos should have
been like, maybe in time we can get past it, but right now I
just need to be on my own. And I think that would have been
better, but then people would be pissed that Seppalos isn't
together. So I mean, and then I don't know
if they even thought about the Ashland, it was actually
cheating as well, because I at least I personally consider
emotional cheating cheating. If you're talking to someone and
you have feelings for them, that is cheating they.
Almost kissed like they were. I know about to like actually go
into Seb in Big Red territory. So like it is clearly that was
just gonna the the pumpkin didn't walk in then like all the
cheating would have possibly happened.
So like the seven and Big Red thing there's no emotional
cheating there. It was just a heat of the moment
thing versus like the Ashley Maddox thing is worse.
It's like there is like deep feelings there.
It's worse. Selfishly, I, I I don't mind
though, because we've got some cute scenes about the Jupiter
that is fully selfish and like should not have been done in
real life. Yes, correct.
They should have broken up Big Red and Ashland in season three
and we wouldn't even be here with this.
Again, it's a it's a very they do soap opera relationship
drama, just 'cause then that becomes the plot point for these
characters. Like, they could have been doing
so many other things. Like Maddox could have been like
talking to Ashlyn about her working on the movie and shit.
And we could have had real conversations with these
characters and like, Seb and Carlos could have been having
real conversations about stuff. But no, we have to focus on
whatever this is. It's ridiculous.
And like, I just it just it's manufactured drama and I hate it
when they do this shit. It's just dumb.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
If you like this episode, check out all our other episodes on
whatever you're using to listen right now.
If you're listening on Apple, we'd really appreciate it if you
left us a review, no matter how brief.
It helps us get into Apple's algorithm to reach a wider
audience. Please feel free to reach out to
us. We would love to hear from you
about everything and anything you can.
Find us on all the social medias at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail
us at Big Gay Energy pod@gmail.com.
If you'd like to make friends with other queer media loving
people, reach out to us to join our Discord server.
If you'd like to support us, check out our Merch store or
join our Patreon for early access to episodes, exclusive
content, and so much more. Until next time, stay safe and
hydrate for Lesbian Jesus.