Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
Welcome back everyone. It is 2023 the year of, let's
hope this is better than last year.
That every year has been every year since 2020, okay?
The the 20s have been the absolute worst.
There's no sugarcoating that by 2022 in particular, was a
dumpster fire of the year for television shows and it was felt
pretty hard in the queer Community.
Mmm, and we've all felt it. Literally every show we've
covered so far on this podcast has been cancelled in 2022.
And it has a lot of people including us feeling some ways.
And so oh sorry, go ahead. No, just awful.
Feel Yahweh ceiling some ways awful, depressed, traumatized,
all of those things. So, we thought we'd explore why
on Earth this happen. Like what even what happened?
We'll explain what happened. If you're not, if you weren't
filth, if you didn't feel the devastation, that was 2022 for
career media and kind of dive into some nuts and bolts about
why this happened and like what is actually going on because the
perception is that we as the queer Community or being
targeted, in particular, all of our shows are basically
cancelled. And it's leaving us very sad and
feeling a little bit hopeless. So this is, by no way.
It may shape or form a comprehensive topic.
We're not truly experts on the topic of like, what actually
goes on behind the scenes, but I tried we tried and we just
wanted to provide some insight into some aspects of what's
going on because this is a multifactorial thing.
There's a lot of players in the entertainment industry that have
there. Wants their needs their
financial whatever's. So we're just hoping to shed
some light on this and give people some peace.
So in memoriam of all the canceled, queer shows in 2022.
We present this episode to you. Sorry at the end.
I should just do dedicated to and just like a, yeah, credits.
Exactly The Tick-Tock. Another One Bites.
The Dust on there, though. You're just get rid of the sound
anyway, it's not all of them either.
Wait, a smart play Taps. Its heard.
My new theme song for this is actually is so for those that
don't know, No, what on Earth Taps has?
If you don't listen, our motherland episodes.
Basically, it's a like Song, a horn song that's played in
America for military veterans, that are being buried.
So it's like a final salute kind of song.
Thank you for your service. So yeah, we will play that at
the end. What will say?
Maybe you'll hear some tabs. So, something to look forward to
at the end of this episode. But before we get to Taps maybe
we don't know. Let's start with what on Earth
happened in 2022 because what the fuck was that?
All right, I remember like, starting off 2022 being like,
yeah, this will be better than 20 21 like we do every year and
because my favorite show is coming back for its, what should
have been the second to last season?
But became the last season because of the pandemic, a
television show called kill Eve. And then in April, it ended very
homophobic lie. If you've never seen the show
that was this year last year, 2022 was a marathon of stuff
time. What is time, right?
It's a constructive swords. So it's started with that ending
spoiler alert, skip ahead, if you're planning on watching the
show, ends in a barrier gaze Trope, like actually ends up
above it, like that starts it off then.
And the Wilds get cancelled gentlemen, jackets, cancel it.
Then all these like, queer ledge Sapphic, lend show.
Start getting cancelled, like one by one until we have this
amazing death toll, at the end of 2020 to.
So like the depression just kept going and going and going and
going. So that's what happened and I
wanted to know like, okay well we're in our little queer media
bubble. We have particularly been
covering certain Sapphic shows at this point.
So like what actually was the scope of all of this in 2022?
So I dug into like the numbers and have some stats.
I promise they're relevant and not boring.
Just stick with me on this So in 2022, there were a total of 120
shows that were canceled. Keep in mind, there were like
over 500 television. Shows that like happened in
2022. So like one, fifth of them were
cancelled in 2022. For the purpose of this.
I that's the total number of what was canceled.
I then excluded the ones that weren't scripted.
So by that, I mean, things like talk shows or reality type shows
game shows. I remove that from the total so
of the shows that are scripted. So like have writers rooms and
all that stuff, there were 92 shows that were cancelled in
2022, Of those 92 shows. Two of them were canceled after
a renewal was already announced. So the renewal for the show was
revoked and they're like, JK, it's actually cancelled those
who shows were Dangerous Liaisons, which is the star show
and Minx which is an HBO show. Then of the 92 to shows that
were deemed cancelled, or actually quote, unquote, saved
and picked up by another Network.
So those two shows were Magnum p.i., which was canceled by CBS
and is picked up by n by NBC for its sixth season and manifest
that was canceled by NBC, and is now moving to Netflix for its
last season, which I didn't interrupt real quick.
Yeah, I love manifest. I know people hate it because it
it's like saved it and Netflix is doing a lot of us are, like I
love manifest. So very happy by this because it
ended on the whatever I but it's not really that queer.
So continue. But hey at least manifest fans
are getting peace of mind. So like that's positive but
again, it's kind of fucked up that you had two shows that were
like we're doing it. We're not renewing it.
And then two shows were there. Like we're not, renewing it but
then it got saved by Network. So, like I guess those scales
are balanced but still suffer a was a foot And so that's the
breadth of like the show. So the 92 scripted shows were
cancelled in 2022. I wanted to know, like, okay
well what were these shows, what were the trend or there any
Trends or anything we can kind of pick apart from what was
cancelled and then maybe let us to like why they were canceled.
And so I don't watch all 92 of these shows.
I like this is based on the best research possible that I could
do without like actually working in the industry or watching all
of these shows. So I picked apart the shows by
genre based on what I am DB says they are and so of the 92 shows
those twenty-five percent of them are sci-fi shows.
Then about 18 percent each after that was comedy and drama.
So like the top genre of things that were cancelled in 2022.
We're sci-fi shows which was like 1/4 a quarter of all the
shows then we got the comedy and drama after that but like of the
show's that's like the majority genres comedy-drama.
So keep that in mind. Then I look to see okay that's
what's being cancelled, who's canceling all these shows.
And so as unsurprising to anybody who's probably listening
to this podcast, the number one network that was canceling shit
was Netflix. So Netflix canceled 15 shows
which accounted for about 17 percent of everything that was
cancelled in 2022, the top genre of type of show they were
canceling. We're sci-fi shows.
So there are seven shows out of the 15.
So it's like almost Most half. The next Network that we can all
get mad at is the CW because it's often see them later as
well. It's the CW.
There's a lot of reason to be mad at them, so they were number
two, they canceled 10, television shows in 2022. 11
percent overall of everything that was canceled, the top genre
for them. Where superhero shows that's, I
guess it's kind of sci-fi fantasy ish, but like, I'm
picking that out because they're distinctly DC Comic superhero
shows that were all canceled. And There's four of them so
about how almost half like 80% or 90% 40%.
The next, the next networks after that is Showtime,
Showtime, cancelled 7 shows which is 8 percent overall of
the cancellations, their top genres were comedy and drama is
about to shows each then HBO. Max also had seven shows. 8% top
genre was comedy. So, The biggest offenders
basically of all the cancellations Netflix CW and
they're primarily canceling sci-fi fantasy superhero, type
shows those that stackable, huh? Huh effects stuff.
The exactly that's that's what I'm getting to.
Those are shows that require special effects versus everybody
else. Primarily what they're canceling
is like dramas comedies in much smaller amounts.
Now, the part we're probably carrying the most about was of
these cancellations. How many of them had queer
stuff? So, I broke this down by, like,
queer representation in the show, just in general, not
distinct by who led the show? What type of queer
representation? It was just queer representation
in general in the 92 shows. So, this is actually kind of
cool, but sad, so like of the canceled showed 55 of them.
Had queer representation so that was 63% of the show.
So 2/3 of the shows like just that were cancelled had queer
representation in them, which it sucks that they were canceled.
But that's a pretty high number for like having queer
representation in shows, which is kind of cool.
All of those shows with queer representation.
I specifically looked at Sapphic representation, so like to
figure that out because it seems like that genre that group was
being more canceled. Because we had some shows that
were cancelled that were Sapphic LED versus like, male lead gay
where the male lead gays were renewed and the Sapphic ones
weren't. So just wanted to see of those
shows how many so it's actually about like 50% like that had
Sapphic representation in the show as a whole Whoa.
And 25% of all the shows that were cancelled had a Sapphic
lead. So about so quarter of all the
queer stuff that was canceled had a Sapphic lead that was
queer. So it's, they so Sapphic.
People weren't specifically being targeted, but we're
definitely, they were definitely in there.
And the last thing I wanted to know about what was canceled was
the survivability of the shows basically like after what season
was it canceled. And so here's kind of how this
breakdown was. So, about 41% of the
cancellations were canceled after a season 1, it's a biggest
group. Next after that was after a
season 2, which is about 32 percent and like it's minor
after that, like, how many were cancelled.
So it seems like once a show survives the second season, it's
easier for them to get renewed. Basically, that's my takeaway, I
have nothing to back that up. But the majority of stuff that
was canceled, that in 2022, was on the after the first season.
And then after the second season, those would be like the
bulk of the killings basically. Those are all the statistics I
have any comments concerns grievances from you guys any of
that? Surprising or say it's
surprising and pretty much checks out, as far as that's
like what I thought and it's interesting because we don't
really. We think about what a terrible
year, Netflix's had financially and the changes.
They now have like a cheer that's an ad-supported tier.
They now have you know, I'm gonna get there.
I know you continue. After I set it up, figured you
were going to get there. Okay.
This is just the situation part. What is the situation?
Yeah. Um, I think that it's, we, it's
nice that we have can see that there was so much representation
in the shows that were cancelled, but I would like more
varied representation as well and also what the actual.
My, my my brain. I did break that down to like,
yeah, I didn't watch the shows. This was just from like
superficial like searching on the internet about like what the
representation was. We did an excellent job but I
did I did look at that. Like overall not just like what
was canceled. So it's like at least 50% of
shows like hems some kind of representation in some form,
like the extent of how much like a queer lead versus like a
Character that pops up. Definitely varies.
Yeah but the trend, the trend overall, even though but
surviving shows was queer, rep is going up in general.
Like visibility in shows the degree of like the visibility
definitely varies but I didn't compare it with the
cancellations, but that is a overall good thing that's
happening. And the other thing I kind of
looked at I was going to save for like the end where we get
to. The positive part is that like I
also looked at Like casting. So was there diversity in the
casting people of color. Queer people.
And overall there is a Significant television shows
have just diverse casting for like the leads.
So there's positives here, it's just 2022 is a year or we kind
of felt like we were being attacked by these networks and
their cancellations. Yeah.
I just keep forgetting how long it was.
Yeah it was the worst absolute worst part.
I really want is like where I think a lot of this is is us
like you're trying to make the point as feeling attacked and
that's we're we've been feeling attacked in so many ways since
well, the being of time, but since especially the pandemic
started or the Panera, whatever Yeah, that's happened since the
Panini started and financially speaking.
And I think that part, I mean, my brain goes to we're seeing
that from the financials of these companies.
Yeah. And absolutely.
And it also, the, it bigger impact of this, like, yeah, I
just, we just spotted a bunch of numbers was that it has an
actual effect on all of us. So what I've noticed and felt
from myself is that because of this like trauma responses are
being developed by queer viewers?
Like I feel it too because of all of this and so I've noticed
later in 2022, like as shows are airing, there's already
campaigns to save the show. It's not even done airing and
its entirety and already like fans are like there's a queer
lead. It's going to be on the chopping
block. Like we have to start
campaigning immediately before it's even done.
Finishing in its entirety like and for me we're sorry didn't
Warrior. None start before it actually is
yes yes. Willow did the same thing like
that's what I'm saying. And so there's campaigns are
ready to save shows before they even are and there's all this
pressure especially with streaming shows to like binge it
immediately so that like numbers Or up because that's the metric.
They're looking at to decide whether or not it's worth
saving. We have to be obsessed with how
much it's on social media. And so like and there's just
this general anxiety and Gloom the entire time because your,
like, focus fixating on the fact that it could get canceled
instead of like enjoying the show it for me.
It takes all the joy out of actually watching this thing,
you know, because it's like you're just constantly like in
survival mode to save something that hasn't been canceled.
Yet, because you're traumatized by all the cancellations that
keep happening for, like, the things you love watching.
So, it's just creating a group of, it's just creating a bunch
of like, post-traumatic stress disorder for people and it's
making watching the shows, not fun, because I can't just enjoy
this thing at my own pace. I have to binge it immediately
to get the numbers up and like it's just exhausting and it's
not fun and it's not fair to us that we have so little
representation to begin with and then when we get it, it's like
we have to like Zoom, it. We can't even enjoy it.
We have to get to work and make Billboards and like, consult me
on social media about it. And it's just like, when do we
get to like, actually enjoy this thing?
Like, when the last time I enjoyed a television show was
killing Eve because it already had its Seasons.
They release weekly. And it was fun to just like,
enjoy it. You could just enjoy it because
it her, it was already secure, everything was good.
And then but now it's just like, there's so much uncertainty and
it's just for every show, there's camp.
Ends immediately and it just it's not fun to consume this
media anymore because it's just you're constantly got that
weight of like am I doing enough?
Am I like contributing enough? Am I going to help you know if I
don't binge it all tonight, will that make Netflix?
Not renew it like it's just not fun and then you have the people
attacking you on Twitter if you don't do those things, right?
It's like a which again like is their trauma response to all of
this stuff that keeps happening. So it's like you can't be mad at
these people. Because like they're
traumatized, we're all traumatized and it's making
this, just not fun and that's not fair to us.
So if you feel like that like we get it, it's just we all feel it
and it's just it's fucked up. Is what it is.
I don't answer for that. It just sucks, it's not fun.
I was up to my neck in motherland for Salem campaigns
until you guys were there. Like we were freaking heavy in.
In that stuff. And then all of a sudden you
know there it's kind of dissipates into the, you don't
know what to do after that. Like what's your purpose
anymore? And then you're like, why is my
purpose? Why is this my purpose?
This wasn't supposed to be. This is like a television like
on one hand. It's like this is a television
show and the representation is important, but at the same time,
I've, you know, now I'm dealing with all of the Fallout,
emotional Fallout of Being invested myself into this whole
thing for so long. And then to come out of it.
And then for it to like happen again, with Warrior none.
That's why I didn't get super involved in the fandom because I
was already so exhausted from motherland because that was like
a solid year of doing these campaigns and trying to get, you
know, stuff together and And it was a great experience in a lot
of ways but in other ways, it was just like you're saying now.
I have all of this emotional Fallout and don't know where to
put it. Yeah, it's a little shit.
All of that. Brought me to you guys.
So really glad for that it's that's why it's a great
positive, yes of it. And they're great positive parts
of being in the trenches with other people who are like
minded. But it also we need to look.
I think we really need to look at the negative effects of this
is having on the community as a whole and us as individuals and
everyone whether you're whatever part of The community you are
in. It's going to affect you in some
way, shape, or form. Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is, it's like, like you said, you know, when
you're involved with one of these campaigns and they're
like, okay, well I'll watch this other show and then it happens
to that show to. It's like you're just tired of
losing all the time, like it just it just feel exhausting.
It's exhausting. It's just like I keep losing.
I don't even want to watch TV anymore because it's like why
then I get attached to something and then it just goes away.
And now I bet we're back where we start.
It's like we're in Endless cycle of just like I watch a show.
I like the show I meet cool people in the fan of it gets
cancelled immediately. Now we're in a campaign and it's
just like it's tiring. So I think it's important to
talk about How did we get here? Like, how did this become
watching television? Because television used to be
fun and now it's become this never-ending cycle of, like
watch like, get attached cancel. How did we get here?
I feel like it started for me with Buffy after You laugh.
All you want Caitlin I after that?
I was setting up Caitlyn for the transition.
Yeah. I'll just see myself out.
No, it's okay. Originally it started with
barrier gaze stuff and now we've just moved it to cancel your
queers where they're just not burying anybody there just
canceling, the whole fucking show.
I mean they might be burying some Yeah, but it's like that's
not the way we kill off. Queer characters anymore we just
and keep the show going. Now we just scrap the whole
show. That's the perception.
It's a cancel, your query Attic. So anyway, here, but now it's
time for me to try and put my degree to use. so I get a little
bit excited because this is what I studied in school and Umbreon,
fewer had to learn that the hard way because I refuse to stop
researching like we're lucky we're getting this episode now
because I finally stopped searching like I was in academic
journals and like really trying to get every single point
possible and then I was like, oh you can't so this is this is my
simplified version which is still like five pages long So we
started with syndication, syndication used to make you
feel secure because networks wanted to be able to sell their
shows, license them, to other networks to make more money.
So for a show to go into syndication, they would have to
have been on the air for four years and have 100 episodes,
could you imagine getting 100 episodes of our favorite shows
right now? I would do like, right.
Seems unfair the law now, doesn't it?
Yeah. Just like if we make it to 30,
we mean if we make it to 16 Caitlin for people who may not
know what that word means. Can you explain, what
syndication is like, what does that mean?
syndication is when after a show airs, It gets license to another
Network and it they're able to air it so airing on a different
network. Is it going into syndication and
being available to other platforms?
And is this primarily referring to like cable shows or does this
apply to streaming shows to? This is just cable because yeah,
this is basically not a thing. Now, the streaming's of thing,
right? Yeah.
I just wanted to clarify like this.
Is the old model with cable versus dreaming.
Okay? Thank you.
This was a good old times where you wouldn't see a show?
Well, no, actually the thing is, it's not.
All right, we'll get there later.
All right. So come on contradictory my
brain right now. And this is the back in my day,
second back in my day, when I was three, Television.
So they like this is I learned this when I was in like third
grade, like these shows had to have these episodes.
So, yeah. So that's why, if you remember
like four seasons because when I was, when this was the thing, I
was watching Disney because I was a baby and they all shows
had four seasons and it never went past Four Seasons.
So, I was really curious and luckily goo Google was a thing,
and that's how I learned about syndication and in elementary
school. That's amazing.
It's really weird. That's cool.
It's amazing with the internet can do.
But yes, so now people people are really confused because we
don't get four seasons of things anymore.
If something makes it to Four Seasons you're like damn this
shows amazing like yeah. Just people are really watching
it and then it went to three. You like you saw three seasons
of a lot of things now it's going to to And you're still
lucky if you get to the availability of the shows that
we watch have changed since the beginning as well.
Because I know my dad loves to remind me that once a show
aired, it aired, if you missed it, you missed it.
And you never got to see it unless for some reason it like
it came on again. A rerun.
That's what I study called. Yes I rerun which this is a side
note but that's like I really thought that Full House came out
in 2006. Oh my God you thought that it
came out in 2006 and it was just set in the 90s.
Hey I hear you. I was like eight or nine stop
right there. 90s. It's a period piece.
Yeah, so I would watch it, every Tuesday, I'm turning 40 this
year. It took you out to realize it
was it. But deny story.
Aubry is having an existential crisis.
Tell us more about this Gate 1. Oh, my gosh, episode everyone,
Okay, so used to be you could only see it once, then it became
the show aired, it would be available for home entertainment
so you could get it on DVD and rent it at stores.
I believe that's what it is again.
I put split off Buster so um, Seven.
I had to realize was the 90s. That's interesting.
Yeah, so it started as a DVDs. We had them.
We had Netflix and Blockbuster as the malins, sure, that we
still have some of them around somewhere.
For John. Yes.
So all that stuff and then it would go into syndication.
So there's three separate windows for people to make for
the companies to make money off of it.
Now that streaming has become a thing home entertainment and
syndication has is basically the same thing because syndication
It's just streaming at this point and people a lot of people
will just wait for a network show to be like fully run and
then go on Netflix or something so they can just binge it all
and not have to wait. And I do, I remember I was in
school, like when this was like, really happening college and so
I was able to actually like talk about it in classes with
professors who were working in all of it.
And it was very interesting to watch the ratings, just like
consistently drop and drop and drop because and shows were
getting cancelled even more because they weren't expecting
this, like it was just technology is rapidly. early
changes in so much that we can't keep up and systems that we have
in place are Not able to consistently change.
So when they saw the ratings continuously drop shows, were
can't getting cancelled right away.
And then if you notice like years later shows that had the
same amount of ratings are now being renewed because that is a
new normal. But at that time, they weren't
expecting it. Because Netflix basically broke
television, but it became a streaming platform, in 2007.
Networks were like, Basically terrify a kit change the way it.
Sorry. My brain goes really quickly
with this stuff because there's just so much and it's hard to
explain to people cuz, My shit. So Netflix broke TV.
Yes. And they were terrified the next
state. Okay, I figured out where I was
going with it. They basically created Court
cutting so people were beginning to cancel cable subscriptions
and just use streaming platforms.
So basically what we're talking about is the business is
changing and now that streaming is here to stay, and is the
dominant thing in the industry, there are less windows for
Revenue. So, these Productions don't make
as much money, but they're costing more and more.
So the companies are having to figure out how to make money and
another big thing that has changed with the switch to
streaming and this is again, Netflix is fault.
Is the Vintage versus weekly releases?
Now in the beginning I feel like binge-watching which is like so
cool. Everyone is just 60 like wow, we
get all of it at once and now I mean, at least I'm feeling like,
can we get it weekly? Yeah, because I like the
community that is built around the weekly releases.
Yep. Like will.
Okay. No Disney's doing a great job
right now because they released two or three episodes.
I think it's like to now but two episodes and then do weekly.
So it's enough to get you to binge it in the beginning and
then like, continuously watch it each week.
I didn't watch Willow, I had no idea what will it was until
people actually started talking about it and, like, all right,
fine. I'll try, I'll try to watch it.
I'm still not done, so it's taken me more than a month to
watch this show. We're busy people don't even
remind me, but you're right. Like, there there's something to
be said about like the word of mouth advertising.
That is weekly releasing like affords.
You and like, for me that's what my Fondest Memories of watching.
Killing Eve. I'm going to keep coming back to
this because it was BBC, AMC, show.
Let's forget about the fourth season because they fucked it
all up with how they decided to release it.
But, like, originally, it was a weekly released broadcasting
show and because of that you like talked about it, the entire
week leading up to the next episode.
So there's you would draw more people in until like people,
like Taylor Swift. They're like, oh, now I'm gonna
watch this show because this is great because it creates like
buzz and advertising and like it's an experience to like
experience the show. Show versus just watch it all
and then be like, alright, let's move on like it's a different
experience and it's and I think it's better personally from
marketing standpoint been shows doesn't make sense because you
can only mark it until that. First episode is released
because people are going to be in different areas afterwards
and people are already going to have, like there's going to be
some people have already seen it, so like the marketing
doesn't really matter for them. And you can't really like spoil
it with doing other stuff. So, you only have that one big
push and social media is only going to be talking about it.
Nadia a month after its relaxed, right?
It's just it's one big push and then it's done and stuff.
It's a weekly show when people keep talking about it, like I
saw our timeline is just like a great example of this on Twitter
because it is just slowly became more Willow.
And I'm just using Willows example because it's a One that
was released. Yeah, that I watched because
people were talking about it on our timeline so much and inner
Discord, feel free to join a Discord.
If you like care to link down below anyway I think it's the
perfect section famous guys. Anyway, with each week you're
able to do promos like motherland every week.
There was an after the show thing.
There's so much promo to create engagement.
Which could create a bigger audience.
Yes. Whereas especially with Netflix
if they will is the advertising thing in itself.
But just in general say they do a lot of advertising for a show.
It's that one episode and that's just like okay, what's next?
And it just it doesn't make sense.
Yeah, because then you're not going to get that Snowball
Effect because viewership will not go up.
It's just going to continuously go down.
It's almost like back in the day.
Like your dad said, you had one period of time to watch it and
that's it. That's kind of what binge
streaming is. It's like you have that one
period of time where it happens, and then it's over.
Yeah, and then it's like from the company's perspective, they
really only have a short window to determine was.
This is this worth keeping because it's going to dwindle
after that. Like, the people are that people
are that are going to find the show because it all happens,
like all at once, like all the social media people talking
about it, all the gift making, all that stuff.
All happens. Like at once when it's released
and then it kind of dwindles after that.
So like the chance of people finding it dwindles also.
So, like you and remember tiger Oh King.
That was a huge one. No one talks about that one
anymore. Oh yeah.
That was like a month. We were bored during the
pandemic. That's him.
Tiger can't happened. People were trapped in their
homes with nothing. And then that came out there
like something, perfect. Yeah.
But like exactly like this the binge stuff it just once it's
gone, it's gone like people move.
The next thing is now been streaming that we have to move
on to and watch all at once before social media spoils
everything about it too. That's a part I hate also.
Is it? Oh my gosh yes.
Sorry I have an issue where you're not just freaking pissed
me off because you don't. Okay deaf people.
You can always tell when you Strike strike a chord with me.
I am, but like it was two hours after it was released people.
Just fast forward. I'm getting so lightheaded right
now. I forgot to breathe.
People just went to the last episode and ruin the ending,
right? It's okay expose it, right?
And that's the thing. It like, this whole binging
thing. It really like a dropping the
whole season at once it ruins the experience of the show.
Because part of it is like Talking about it with other
people. And like, if I didn't watch the
whole thing immediately or just jump to the end.
I now cannot go talk to people about this because I'll get
spoiled, and it's like, it removes, the whole fun of the
whole experience in my and live-tweeting, that can't be a
thing with streaming shows. And that I okay, paralyzed
taught me all this shit because that I was in seventh grade when
that came out. And so that was my whole Social
me existence was live-tweeting that every single Tuesday, it
created engagement with the cast and create engaging with each
other. And that's why it went on for
seven freaking Seasons. Yeah, it's like the binge
streaming makes less and less sense when you really think
about it. I know people like it because
they're like, I don't have to wait, but, like, do you even
enjoy it as much, right? Do you enjoy it?
Like, do you catch everything? When you sit down and just watch
everything? Like, how do you get to enjoy
the show? I remember what?
It happened, right? I can't remember what happens
when I binge anything. It's just like, it's like, yeah,
I'm getting those endorphins immediately, but then when it's
gone, it's gone. And it's like cool.
I guess I move on to the something special about having
to wait with, and you're like, what's gonna happen to other
people there? Just like we want to know, yes,
Bree I'm the opposite. I get like, I totally get your
points but I have a problem with waiting.
Yes it is. You want all the spoilers and
I'm a person that enjoys a show in a vacuum all at once.
And then goes to talk about it. I don't like to talk to people
in between in between text if you will but I totally get how
it affects everything and I agree.
It's not the best model. Anyway, that's my two cents.
I mean every week. So I was a great model and it
works for them. Okay.
So, like I can't fault Netflix, I'm actually quite impressed
with Netflix in the like, they took over like they were able to
just create the biggest streaming platform.
I mean, I think they were the first really the first Drew.
Yeah, they were the first, and they're really the first that, I
mean, who knew existed. And was kind of doing their own
originals, but they were the first one.
This is why it hurts so bad. It all started with Orange is
the New Black a Sapphic queer ledge show.
Mostly women not men cast. That's where this all started
when they're like here's the first show or I'm going to give
you all of it all at once. Well yeah, as you go first Joe
that you could read into the whole thing.
It was that stuff you had trans stuff you had?
Yeah. Like everything yeah a non
medlen show with queer to queer leads that's what started all of
this and then That's why this kind of hurts the most coming
from Netflix because it's like we made you big.
Yeah, that was the first show that just the whole season at
once we're like what we can watch the whole show.
So it was like novel and it was fun to do.
But like, now all the shows you're doing tonight, I don't
remember the year, Is there any matter?
Yeah, I do. I've never seen it.
Binge-watching is good for me personally but it ruins the
culture. I understand why people like it,
people who are like, well, I have anxiety and I need to know
what happens next. I don't want to dwell, but like,
for me, it makes it less fun because like, that's, I'm a re
Watcher to. So, I go back and re-watch.
I re-watched it. So this is like to your point of
not absorbing it at all at once, that's I have to do with books
too, but that's why I story is always new to me because I have
the ADHD brain, that forgets everything.
I will say, there are shows that came out weekly and I like there
is a chance that like the audience just falls off and
never sees this episodes like there's pros and cons to
everything, and there's definitely shows that I loved.
Like I still have not finished the Bold type, and I was
obsessed with that show when it was coming out and saying, We
talked about that one. Absolutely, yes, I love that.
I also wrote, I wrote a paper on that show.
I this is why I went to school for this shit.
Anyway, those are our two cents about fins, binge versus weekly
releases. There are definitely pros and
cons from a viewer perspective and then like the company's
perspective and it does affect how things are advertised.
So, like that's probably why it feels like.
Hey, they're not at nobody's advertising some of these shows,
but it's like, it might just be one little thing and they're
like, there it is. It's releasing tomorrow.
Like that's it. I'm trying to hold myself in
from talking about something else because I think it's later.
I've read so much and done so much research for this.
It depends if you want to talk now or we can.
Okay, continue you go. Alright, so another thing that
happened that nobody was expecting at all except
scientists because I was at a conference or there were talking
about this the year before it happened was the pandemic of
2020. And the death toll of shows, we
saw in 2022 was partially due to actually the pandemic and how
that impacted, just literally everything, including the
entertainment industry. So, in 2020, because there was a
global, pandemic happening Production Studios were
temporarily closed down. And so, because of that the
number of originally scripted television programs dropped
across All the platforms. So broadcasting.
Your syndicated stuff streaming. All of that everything just
dropped because everything had to stop, right?
And so that included like new shows that were being developed
and shows that were already greenlit that were trying to go
into production. All of that stopped basically in
2020 and to because there were these production delays in 2022.
All the or 2020s are all the shows that were going to are in
2021 that had to get stopped from being made got moved to
like the twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two seasons so
like they got pushed back out a year, right?
The things that were already in production that had to get
stopped on top of that. You had new shows that were
being developed and like the writing was happening over Zoom.
So like shows are being produced in the background from a writing
point of view whereas like the actual filming had to stop and
get pushed out a year. So it created a backlog of shows
that all kind of got aired in 2022 because the ones that were
supposed to be are in 2021 got moved.
And then all the new shows that were being created, then got
produced when everything got greenlit and then you had too
many shows essentially In 2022. so, In to put it into
perspective in 2019, there were 552.
Scripted shows that like happened and we're kind of
streamed in 2020 that drop to 493 of things that were like
kind of coming out because they're already done and things
like that. Then in 2021 because of the
backlog, there was an overshoot of like the number of shows you
have like 550 500, like 60, almost Rose.
And so, while you had this imbalance of the number of shows
and existence in 2022, it didn't change the amount of money these
Studios had to, like, produce shows.
So, because of that, we ended up with this peak TV is what they
called it in 2022. We're basically now, the Studios
have to figure out well, which we have too many shows, which
ones are we going to? Like continue and which ones are
we going to cut? And so I think part of what
happened is, there's like there's a finite amount of money
and there's too many shows and 2022 and so it looks like more
things were killed off going into the 2023 season because you
had the Pandit shows that got shut down because of the
pandemic. The new shows that were supposed
to be produced in between all kind of came out together ish
and there's like only so much money going into 2023.
So it was like an anomaly year partially because of that.
Yours really good at talking. I'm just saying summarizing and
talking. Yes, summarize it because Yeah.
All right. I mean I can also attest to this
as a killing you fan because that show was given Five Seasons
supposed to have five, but because of the pandemic in 2020,
when they were filming season for they lost a year and this is
a show that films all over Europe.
So it was completely compromised of what it could film.
And then in 2021, when production was opening up again,
it was limited where they could film and the actors were are and
pretend the People in production were already booked for Stuff
past the seat when season 5 was supposed to happen.
So because of that, they had to end the show a year early
because everybody was booked and it's like we cannot continue the
show because everything's we lost a year and that's it.
And so because of that the show is losing a year and they had to
rewrite the whole thing and that's partially.
The reason we got the horribleness that was the final
season because it wasn't supposed to be the final season.
It just the pandemic robbed everybody of a year and they
could not continue it because everybody was Worked.
So a lot of things got quote-unquote cancelled.
So technically was a cancelled prematurely because the
pandemic, we lost an entire year of like actually filming the
show and some shows they couldn't keep going because the
scheduling conflicts and things like that, with actors and
creators. And shows were also still coming
out in 2020 2020. Yes.
Yeah. One because of 2019 and like,
those shows I feel bad for like Teenage bounty hunters.
Came out in 2020. All right?
And I will never be over this because that one got canceled
right as I found it and watched it.
Yeah, that was people so fast. It was like super fast like
right, I do it. I'm like I didn't even know it
existed, it's so good. That's another story back to
other business stuff. All right.
Rain in my fangirl putting on my business.
This is also a therapy session. It's okay, as all its every
episode is that you guys, if you're new here in, this is your
first episode. Welcome.
They gave their make him to therapy.
We can't guarantee you'll come out of it, feeling better well
at the end were blending on a happy note we promise,
hopefully, so other business stuff that's going on.
On. In the, in this industry and
itself. And if you haven't noticed that
everyone is creating a streaming service everyone.
How many streaming services are you subscribed to actually, I'm
curious. How many are you guys subscribe?
But me personally because there's somebody, are you
personally subscribe to it? How many do you mooch off other
people? See, but here's the thing is
like 5 includes a motoring. I only met, which one.
I'm the primary and everything else that people moved off of
me. Yeah.
And I'm triggered figure out how to get HBO Max well in Prime
that for you, we can get you that in Prime.
I'm subscribe to a service within Prime, so it's like a
service in a service. Yeah.
That's like wanted the sir. Yeah.
So like it's like Britt box inside of Prime.
Oh, I see. Okay, I can't do that.
We watched in Christmas there. Sorry.
I thought that was so random, but I forget what it is mean.
We watched some show with your mom.
Oh oh. Oh yeah, what mother?
And I primarily watch Brit box if it's not, you know, I guess
it's not queer for that too. But again, people mooch off of
me for that. Yeah, I mooch Hulu and disease.
If the streaming services are listening, we don't, we don't
actually, we don't actually do that.
Actually, my family members and we share money.
So So it's really not mooching. I'm just the primary.
Now, I used to, I was subscribed to Disney for the three-year
promotion and then, I'll get into that one later as well
because there's a graphic that fully shows that anyway.
Yeah, so you basically probably have access somehow to all of
them don't actually pay for all of them.
But anyway, Since everyone is creating streaming services and
the Network's themselves have them, they have no reason to
license their content to Netflix and other platforms.
They have more What is the word intuitive?
So yeah, it's going to keep that to themselves and put it on
their platforms because then people will subscribe to them.
So we saw this with friends when a Netflix spent a hundred
million dollars to keep friends and I forget which one actually
had. It was it Embassy sent me on
friends? Yeah, they're like, well, I'll
take the money for right now. So, yeah.
So none of us. Got to keep friends for a little
bit. So now that other license
content is getting taken away from these platforms net.
We're just going to use Netflix as an example, because I don't
think they are. Would let me look at all of them
because then Netflix has the most data they've been there the
longest. So it just makes.
Yeah. We also would never have gone to
this episode. Because we I just would have
been searching things forever. Anyway, so services, like
Netflix, have to rely on original programming to be
competitive with all these other platforms. the shows that they
make, they have to make sense financially and there isn't room
to keep shows that aren't a success like a huge success
because if something's not making money, Why would you keep
it? Now, we asked on Twitter about
assumptions. People have about shows, getting
cancelled, and two of the big ones that we kept hearing was
Network streamers. Don't care about representation
unless they can make money, and they prefer to please mainstream
audiences. No, I have a little rant for
this. I never understood these
arguments. They are a business.
If they didn't care about those things, we couldn't get
anything. Why should they, why should they
be expected to keep a show that isn't giving them a return on
the air? Just because some people like it
and I understand the representation, and I understand
that these shows mean something that's people.
But if they don't, if they can't actually get their money's worth
for these shows, they're not going to be able to make other
things. And continue to give you
content. So, Yeah, you have any comments
about that. Any opinions.
I mean yeah, I understand that from like a business perspective
because it's about return on investment, right?
And we'll talk about this a linen other section like what it
actually costs to like do this. So yeah, I understand that I
don't understand the nuts and bolts of how that all works,
maybe that's in here. And I think that's again like
how they make money. I don't know what goes into the
decision like to run and what, what constitutes a success, I
feel like that's another disconnect that's happening with
people because looking at certain metrics, like, again,
2020s fucked up a lot of shit, but looking at metrics, like
Warrior and I was an People like the warrior.
None streaming numbers were better in season 2 than season
one and season one. Got a renewal, but not season 2.
So it's there's a disk. So people don't understand.
They're like, well, what do we need to do?
Because like, everybody who's traumatized battle, this are
trying to take it on themselves to be like what can we do to
say, like save these shows like to keep them going like what do
we what number do we have to meet?
What's the metric? And it seems arbitrary when you
try to actually look at data that it gets out there and be
like, I don't understand because like The numbers here.
Look too good for this show. This got cancelled, the numbers.
Your for this show are less, but it got renew.
So it's like people are confused and I think that the assumption
is like, well, there's more diversity in this show.
There's a Sapphic lead that must be it versus this show.
It's like a white cast with a gay man lead that got renewed.
So, like people are just like trying to figure out what the
hell because it doesn't the math isn't a thing is I think yeah,
part of what leads people to this.
Assumption. And it's like, yeah, the
Wednesday comparison comes up because they're like, yeah,
that's mainstream and I think mainstream granted that really
isn't mainstream. If you know the history of The
Addams, Family really isn't but it's like it's with movies to
this thing keeps happening where it's not really original
content. People are taking establish it.
That has a fan base in like multiple generations and they're
going, let's make a project based off this because there's
already fans were less likely to fail.
Like it's it, It is reducing creativity and it's just people
are being like let's redo old stuff.
That's one is 500 Spider-Man movies.
And there's only one everything everywhere all at once.
It's because like people don't want to take Financial risks on
stuff. They're like, I need to know
that this is going to succeed and we can label it, original
content, and keep it and license it.
But there's already fans. So it's less likely to fail, and
I can make more money off of this.
So like and if you look at that project, it's like yeah like
this was appealing to like white people in like the 80s or
whatever so like it seems mainstream from that perspective
versus like something with an overt queer lead, POC cast, like
I understand where the assumption is coming from when
you're just looking face value at two different projects, one
that got canceled in one did it and you're trying to figure out
what the hell is happening because like this thing got a
season. To and the numbers are better
season two. Like I don't understand what's
happening. I think that's where these
assumptions are coming from. And again, it filled the whole,
the reason we're here is because we feel like we're being
disproportionately targeted because we have less stuff to
begin with and then when you're slaughtering 25% of it, it
impacts us more because there's less stuff to begin with versus
like love Island gets renewed. And you're like, what is this
garbage? But there's money differences in
all that stuff that go into. Those two different shows so
like, sorry. I understand, I understand.
Yeah, where people are coming round number discrepancies.
I think. Oh, and also some of it comes
from people not knowing how to interpret the data that they're
getting. And what the debt, I mean, they
just don't have the, I mean, the general public probably doesn't
have the statistics knowledge and internal knowledge of TV, or
sorry, streaming services, and things of that nature.
Especially also, no one has all the data correctly.
Exactly. We don't has copious amounts of
data that they are spending, so much money on analyzing, I like
it's good. They they're really good at
targeting but they're never going to share it because it's
not in their best interest. Exactly, right.
So we will never fully know what the hell happens behind the
scenes. Well, we are going to go into
some more things. There are like, some Somewhat
plausible reasons. Why some things have happened.
Correct, correct. I want to say something about
the streaming platforms. If that's okay, I think another
reason why there's perhaps a lot of like, Mass Exodus of certain
shows on streaming platforms to is because every single one of
these require payment, right? So it's versus like, back in the
day where it's like, you had one fee, you had the cable
subscription, you paid that fee and then you got access to all
of the television shows because they were all on cable.
And then when it moved to streaming it was like okay I
have like Hulu, it's all on Hulu.
Now it's like if I want to watch this specific show I have to get
a specific subscription and pay money to go somebody somewhere
else. So like there is a barrier to
people being able to have access to shows because it's all behind
pay walls, like different pay walls.
So, because of that, like there could be quality career content
on like a streaming platform. I'm not subscribing to is, I
don't have the money to subscribe to it.
So like I will never see it so it's like it's actually hard.
It's creating Accessibility to it's a barrier to accessibility
and like because it's all being binged at once.
Like people like you don't know what fully is going on because
you can't unless you're like stalking all these streaming
services and have all this money to like you know, you describe
to end the single one of them. Since we're like, cancel culture
is bleeding over into streaming networks, people are canceling,
it after they're done watching One show, like they keep going
to different platforms because of a sure they hear about.
And so it is hard to like know about a show unless it's a huge
success. Yeah, exactly.
And like, again, the barrier to watching it in the timely manner
for the metrics they're looking at could be, I don't.
And I can't afford a subscription to watch it right
now. I'll watch it later maybe when I
can afford it. So yeah, basically I think some
personally something has to cave with everybody.
Having their own fee like for their streaming service and
there needs to be like a conglomerate that has all of
these things together. So you can watch them, all being
cable, kind of like a streaming version of cable we have.
Yeah, it's called sling, right? But okay.
Getting audiences and like, honestly, like it lowers your
your I don't know. Whatever.
It's just. No, I totally feel.
I totally hear you. And I that that was a joke.
Example, sling. Don't anybody come for me?
It's not really that. But yeah, totally see what yours
go. Oh God, she's like, chomping at
the bit. There are there's bundles for
everything out, like, Disney has ESPN, Hulu and Disney and
Discovery is Discovery and something else.
They like, because of a bunch of these mergers and these
companies are related to each other which we're going to get
into another like by out thingy in a second.
No, sorry for years of school, in one episode, it's not
working. Because of these relationships,
they're able to create deals where especially because a lot
of phone companies were merging with networks.
So now if you have Comcast you get Netflix for free, Verizon
you you can get the Hulu ESPN and Disney bundle. so these
bundles in my phone plan Netflix through T-Mobile yeah, so I can
they're still working on ways to give people more access.
I feel like it's a Trisha Spirit.
Yeah, he had to constantly changing, its have office going
to be changing because the, the technology behind all of this is
always changing. And I only know from when I was
really little, but From the time I was born to now.
Like technology has changed so much.
Look I used to, I had it. I used to floppy disk at one
point. I'm sorry those were terrible
and VCRs. Computer computer programs that
you had to install from a disk. I have that in my cover letter,
by the way, I make people feel really old when they read my
cover letter. Anyway, that's not the point of
this. I got off on a tangent.
Like I always do. How about we take a break from
Netflix? Real quick.
All right, put them on the back burner.
Let's count on somebody else. I'm questionable today.
Okay. So we're going to go to another
company. That's what executive this
people off. People have feelings about.
Gee I wonder who it could be. It's two letters.
CW. My first note for this, ew.
Is that it seems to be a mess right now.
Yeah. I just want to say every single
time a show got cancelled in 2022 that like, I was like
invested in. It was always that a time where
I had to like, go do a performance that like, in a
competition and I'm just like, oh shit, how am I supposed to do
this now? Anyway, I did warn them that.
Yes, if you are in breed, that my brain would be like this
today. You're doing great this ew.
Has not been profitable. At least in the most in the
foreseeable past. Yeah, I don't know if they were
ever profitable and they Heaven, they're like not even just that
profitable. They are operating at a ongoing
loss. Like they never made money from
their stuff. It's amazing how they even
exist. It feels like it shouldn't be
possible. So you know how As soon as you
watch like the flash Supergirl or anything like that, the day
after they finished airing their season, it would be on Netflix.
That deal. Is what made CWB okay, because
that brought them in money but that deal has expired.
And now they make the mommy again.
But let's look into their past. Alright, look into the crystal
ball. Of this.
Ew. Historically they cancel an
average of three point. Three shows a year how many
without reading the thing? Because I guarantee for your
just read it and just read it sound like a 300-pound.
That's yeah. Did you say it already?
No I mean I did the queer ones which is a substantial
proportion of that. Yes.
How many shows do you think? The CW canceled in 2022.
What was their average before 3.3 per year?
Well since we're doing this episode and we're talking about
them as a big point. I'm going to say don't go
outrageously high. No, I was going to say they
cancelled all of them. Here's my she's doing math.
Gays? Can't do math.
Why would you excuse me? Just prove that they did.
Hello, 10, 10. 10 8 to 10. It was my range.
I'm going to say nine because it's in the middle, huh?
It's ten. Good job.
Good job, free. Yes, I can do something after
all. You can do a lot of things with
numbers. Oh a lot of things and 10 is
substantial increase from 3.3. Yeah I would say so yes.
Hmm. So over the last four years, The
CW has had 17 to 19 scripted shows on air.
With all of the cancellations, they now have 11.
What's that you got they only have 11 shows because like think
about it is that viable. They're not viable to begin
with. I will tell you what they're
going to get there. Not viable.
I will tell you what their strategy is right now because
they have just been acquired by next star which has a
controlling share their goal and they believe it's possible to
make CW revenue-generating in Profit by 2025.
Basically, they want to do that by creating a bunch of reality
shows because they're cheap. Oh, God.
That's the also get into easiest form of content to create
correct. Yeah, so the CW CW made us even
sadder this year. I mean, what the hell CW you got
the flash. What's the other show?
They still have? I mean, they're trying to read,
hell knows. Yeah.
Like they don't naturally spinoff Yeah because it's
already a thing because yeah, exactly.
It's already a thing in reality shows or like where it's at.
It's also been a Spate of these four years.
Now, I know it's annoying, he's have not been new and so long,
really everything everywhere. All at once is like the most
novel movie. I've know what that is.
It's just what a bunch of awards go, watch it.
It's so there's queer stuff in it and we shouldn't talk about
that movie actually. I know how to walk how these No,
I don't watch movies either because they're so repetitive
now. Except that one that one's the
most unique movie I've seen in years because it's just the same
crap over and over again, even like the Marvel stuff on Disney.
It's like this already exist as a book.
We're just making it a movie now and it's like, cool.
I don't care. Thanks, I hate it.
Yeah, you know I think that we need to talk about The actual
costs associated with this, and the aura has a unique
perspective if we're still going with that.
Yeah, so basically, when I think about, I don't know the ins and
outs of movies or watch TV shows because we're focusing on
Kaitlin's and talk about it. But to me it seems a lot like
the way drugs are developed. And so as some of our, it just
sounded like it seems like drunks tribes medicine but it's
on drugs. There's no but like Kate never
mind. But some might be greatly.
So from my perspective like in school, so I went if I'm a
pharmacist, I went to pharmacy school where we had to learn
about the industry of, how drugs are made research, all of that
stuff. Because when we're in the
pharmacy, I used to work retail for a bit.
I almost did become a pharmacist because I hated it so much, but
basically be a yelled at about the cost of when people pick up
their drugs and why is this so expensive?
And the reason is, if you're ever wondering is because it
takes 20 years to make that drug like to just make it because
initially a company because this is all at the end of these are
businesses For Better or Worse, the end of the day, the company
that's going to make it has to fund a bunch of research to find
the product. Right that takes like 10 years.
So just find a molecule that's going to be the drug then they
got to test it in animal models. People models And that takes
like another like 10 year like 10 years towards the tail, end
of that second ten years they then have to like propose their
data to regulatory bodies. If you're in America, it's the
FDA Food and Drug Administration.
Because they have to prove, it's safe.
And it does what it's supposed to do.
Once that gets approved, they then get the patent for that
drug. Is why drugs have two names that
brand name because that's the patent name, when they get
approval to like it, give it to people, basically put it on the
market and that last, like, 10 years or so, where they get
exclusive rights to that drug because they have to make up the
money. They spent 20 years developing
this drug and it's not cheap to pay all these researchers to do
all these trials to have all the The equipment you need doing
studies is the I don't know how people do it.
It's so time-consuming and terrible and it just costs a lot
of money. It cost Millions to make this
billion sometimes to make this one thing.
And then you have 10 years to make up that money before you
lose the patent and then anybody can have access to it and then
be like, like, for example, it's a good drug like Motrin, okay?
Is like an over-the-counter drug now, but that's the brand name
for ibuprofen. People.
Use it all over the world, right?
So like bear. I think who did not actually?
Yeah, I don't remember. The company is, but the original
company that are got that drug had like 10 years to like sell
it as the brand name exclusively and make up that money before
anybody, Walgreens can sell ibuprofen now and you notice
that there's a price difference between your brand name and your
generic the second name, right? It's because other people are
like, hey, this sells well, lets us try and sell it.
And we'll cut cost because we didn't have to make this thing.
We just take the recipe and then sell it to people.
So, all is that to say is like there's a lot of behind the
scenes stuff that happened four years before you get the drug at
the pharmacy and the company that spent decades, putting all
of that together needs to make money to then make the next
drug. So, because of that, it looks
like Oh, they're just price gouging me, which is partially
true in America, but also it's like it took 20 years for you to
get this. And they had to pay so many
people and they need the money back to make the next drug.
So, that's kind of how it works with drugs.
So they got to recuperate the money.
I'll drunk Russian. Sure does that mean.
Vyvanse will have a generic at some point at some point it will
hit some how many more years 33 years?
Three years. Okay, however when it first
comes off the brand name, the price is still comparable to
when it was a brand-new, it takes so it takes years for the
price to go down. Gosh.
Darn it. Yeah it's not instantaneous
because people are trying to make because they gotta make it
for the first time the other plant they have to get
inspected. Making it there's a whole bunch
of behind the scenes stuff that like they have to like account
for in the price of the pills that you don't see.
Because you just see the pills. I know we can because of the
price of the pills and it's like I can't go too far into the Bob.
Just I need to ask you about insulin because I know there's
like a A whole thing about there's no patent on insulin,
that's why it's outrageous what they're doing in America.
There is the the, the person that made it said, no patent,
anybody can make this, this will save people's lives and the drug
companies like cool. We can charge of the how we
want. There's no patent on that on
that. Oh, so if they would have kept
the patent, it probably wouldn't have been potentially people
need that to live and they're bad as straight up price
gouging. That's ridiculous.
It is ridiculous. It is absolutely ridiculous.
There's no need for that. So really to bring it back to
TV, bring back to TV. If all of these platforms
decided, you know, let's just raise all the prices.
Yeah, yep. We would have to go with it
because what is the alternative? This is like the Monopoly
scenario. This is the scenario.
Now, we're like inflation is causing prices to go up because
if all that there's like three companies and one of them goes
mom and raise my price. Everybody else goes, well let's
raise our prices to they have no other option, they're just going
to pay that is what's happening. That's that's partially why
things? Keep getting more expensive
because there's less companies. So like if it's Netflix and Hulu
and like, one other, that's why these Acquisitions are not
great. Like, the bundling, like, Disney
is slowly buying up the entire entertainment industry, and once
they have the Monopoly, they can charge whatever the hell they
want, because what is your alternative?
There is no alternative. If you want to watch anything,
you have to pay with Disney says, you need to pay.
Say, that's my problem. Their lawsuit about this right
now. Yeah, that's why.
This is a good thing, but there are systems like they have to.
I think it was Time Warner and AT&T think it was them.
Yeah. But either way, that merger had
you go through a lot of obstacles to get approved
because they are trying to prevent.
Yeah, but some of them are still being approved in there.
Yeah well there's also a lot of money involved and stuff option,
an idiotic shit. We're still here creating
complement. What do you expect?
The end result though is that this is going to get more
expensive for us and access to things is going to reduce And so
overall you're like, while you're trying to grab up all the
people to get on your streaming platform by owning all of them.
Like if you hike up your prices too much, people can afford it,
you lose people. Like there has to be a balance
that kind of happens here too like recuperate.
These costs, I believe Netflix is the most expensive one right
now, though? Mmm, probably they were even
over HBO. Because they keep like there's
ice where there's like three price increases in here once.
Probably, I don't know. There's also they're trying to
make it cheaper with ads. Everybody's having ads, that's
another section. So Caitlin, what's the cost of
production a lot? That's Isabel entered.
I just I'm gonna go straight into the reality shows versus
scripted because that's the easiest way.
Okay. To like really compare it and
see like understand how much scripted shows are costing.
All right, let's do it. Also because I wasn't totally
sure how your drug thing was going to go.
I wish I did more for this section.
Well basically the analogy I guess.
If you're not going to summarize it I can kind of summarize it
like. So I guess to compare it to TV
shows like as the end user as the viewer.
The person getting the drug to bring that back.
Basically, you just see the final product, right?
You just see the show but I can talk about like the promises.
How do we get to that show? Yes, basically.
Okay. So I don't know the exact cost
for like because like there is not one cost for each thing.
Totally, but so basically, Somebody has to have an idea.
And then they go to a bunch of networks to pitch the idea.
And if you're lucky enough, some networks can be like, all right,
I like that. So then you get greenlit to make
a pilot. So you have to a lot of times
the showrunner is also like a writer, at least that's what
I've seen. So they get like a team of
writers. They write it.
Then you got a cast it. These there's a bunch of people
involved in each of these processes.
Once you have the cast, then You get, I believe the cast is
first, I think because, then you have to have a bunch of crew and
the amount of watch the credits. Just watch the credits, the jobs
that there are for each set is insane.
Like it's no wonder the credits are long K.
Just watch them give these people credit.
Okay that's what they're for just sayin cries.
So then you get that But then there's also a pre-production
with some of these crew members, and they have to design
everything, and they have to plan it and the scheduling, and
then they make it, they actually, and it takes at least
two weeks for something unless it's a multicam comedy, then it
could be like a week and a half. I think for the actual
production of it. And then you go to post
production, where this is, this is a random thing.
But like if the, if an editor Years.
And like, the dailies, which is like the footer.
Say shot that day. Oh, they'll fix it in post.
They will kill you also, because post-production is more
expensive than the actual production.
Yeah. And that's also because there
are less people skilled to do the post-production stuff like
audio engineering visuals face because like if you look at one
shot of visual effects like not even a full minute, There could
be like 22 passes on something, where they have to do little
particles here. Little particles their fix,
this, put this put multiple different shots on top of each
other to composite an image. There's so much that happens,
and then you also have color eight and fully wishes, creating
like the steps that you hear the like the hunches that's not
captured on set, some of it could be, it would be a lot
cheaper if they did it. But people are in a studio using
all these weird different instruments, which I would
really want to talk to somebody one day because it's really
cool. And people should really like,
understand how it's done because it's just amazing, so much that
goes into these shows, okay? So then post production is done
well hopefully if if you did get picked up by a network and this
isn't just like an independent project, you have to go into
distribution but then you have to do all the marketing and
advertising and then it goes out and to make sure that you can
sell the ads to actually make back the money.
And then we just talked about how hat used to have a bunch of
different revenue streams. Now just goes from airing to
streaming and then sometimes it doesn't even get that, so if
it's a Netflix show, it goes straight the streaming.
There's no way for it to make money in between Does this make
sense so far? Hmm, yes cool.
Alright so with all those steps said, reality shows.
You see a bunch of networks are fully dedicated to reality shows
because they can cost a hundred to five hundred thousand dollars
in episode. They don't their post
Productions, barely anything their pre-production is just
making sure they have the I mean again I don't I've never worked
so directly in reality TV. I don't know if I really care
too. There's enough drama going on in
the real world. And I don't mean the show.
I'm glad that made you laugh free.
I don't know. Who's gonna remember that show,
but yeah, there's a phoenix I remember here.
Yeah, I watched it. So anyway, anything goes here
that show that anyway. With a show reality should call
someone to 500,000 and episode scripted series can cost multi
million to like rivaling Blockbuster film.
Like their whole budget for a film, that could be for one
episode. I believe that's like what
stranger things is. I'm not surprised by that.
Like it's insane and I we will share that we have been told
That motherland cost around five to seven million an episode.
But obviously, we can't like a hundred percent say that for
certain because we weren't there, we haven't seen a budget.
We are going by Word of Mouth We need tangible proof to fully say
that, this is definitely what it was.
Reality shows are also. Able to make more money back
because you could throw bags of Doritos.
At people, give them away as prizes and stuff like that in
reality shows and not have it be weird.
Whereas if you see I used to see this all this, at least
specially when it first, like like really became like popular
and a thing you see, Walmart bags, just sitting there and
you're like, really, I mean, like, come on.
It's just like fully in the third of the screen.
It's just this Walmart. Bag.
I wonder who sponsored this show.
So it's a lot easier to sell more things for reality shows.
I believe one source that I saw, they have a 40% profit on their
shows, that's crazy. Yeah, because it's so cheap to
make because reality stars and less like they become huge.
Like there are I think the Jersey Shore people like they
ended up getting like a million or something and episode.
But most reality stars, they're not getting paid that each
episode. So the costs are minimized.
Extremely in those. I think this is where I go on
break a little bit. Okay, so then the other thing
that plays into why the cost of a scripted television show is so
astronomical has to do with the visual effects in television.
And so that is also a new thing like having quality visual
effects and television quality, because it used to be yeah.
Quality visual effects can be a loose term.
I'm talking about like, cinnamon, Level like Cinema used
to be the standard of visual effects like decades ago, like
that was the standard. Like, if you want to see cool
visual effects, you go watch a movie that has visual effects
like an action movie or whatever.
That was a drop, right did. And that was it right now.
It is expected to have quality visual effect.
Like Cinema level is what that the article I read like they
team, they term it that like Cinema level.
And so, again it's blurring. The distinction between
television and movies again. Because the quality of what
you're seeing is similar and this is what plays into like
sci-fi shows and being canceled at a higher rate perhaps is
because they have the visual effects budgets.
And in the article, I was reading shows like that the
total budget of the production, it can be up to 25%.
So, like a quarter of the budget is just for visual effects that
doesn't take into account. Literally everything else,
Caitlin listed, And all those people you have to pay and like
everything up a quarter of its just visual effects, that's a
lot. And the other piece about this
to and why it's complicated is that in a movie where you have
visual effects, the timeline for post-production visual effects,
all that stuff is a lot longer for those people to do the
visual effects than it is for a television show.
It's stunted. Like the time they have to
actually get it done. A lot shorter.
So that puts more strain on the resources available for a
television show that's using visual effects, not just money,
but like the people that then have to like, turn around and do
this super quickly. And so sometimes they can't do
it in a quality manner because they don't have time to like do
this for the show. So people who complain about
visual effects, discrepancies like a, sometimes it's like they
don't have time to make it look like stranger things.
They have like I think I saw 01 in the article, the example was
like, normally what you'd get in like Cinema is like six months
to do it. You get like, a couple of weeks,
like it, like, 10 weeks or something like it.
Do, like it's substantially less.
So like, yeah. We could make it look like this,
but we don't have the time to do the budget or the budget.
So, like, yeah, like so you can't be mad at visual effects
and TV because it's like they're already working like they're
already at a disadvantage money-wise.
And time wise like even if you're the most skilled person
in the world, like if your time is limited, you have to decide
where you're going to put your energy.
Like you can't make it look like a movie where you have months to
just do it. So my going to small little rant
real quick. Yeah, yeah sure, sure.
Sure, you can continue the largest, I have one last Point
real quick about this too. And so one of the ways that
Studios cope with this and like offset the budget.
So to Peak is they've started putting their production likes.
Just straight up spending time. Not even filming, just spending
time in countries that offer them tax incentives.
So they just move their production to areas where it's
less money to operate, just to save money so they can put mud
funnel money into the visual effects.
So like that's one way, they try to offset this.
So, like, Netflix trying to do stuff in Spain.
Like, they get tax incentives and money incentives to be
there. So it's like if Are offsetting
their costs by like doing things like that because it makes up a
bit makes up a larger proportion of budgets now and that didn't
used to be a thing 10 years ago. French for Kaitlyn.
My rent is that it doesn't just apply to visual effects either,
but people are so quick to complain about different aspects
of a show. But you don't understand like
what the quality, like the work conditions or anything that
they're going through, making this show, people are working 16
hours a day. Minimum sometimes, there are
people who probably died from exhaustion working on these
things to give you something that's good, but it takes so
much time and effort, but you only see the finished product,
it looks so easy. You're like, oh, anybody could
ever you can you can try filming something, get good audio, get
good lighting. I mean it took us this long to
figure out how to get my camera out.
The turn off. All right.
So yeah, it's difficult. So I figured out stories
locating I know two years fragra.
Oh my gosh, we had a bigger budget.
We'd have studios in every single place, but anyway, it's
just respect, respect the entertainment industry, because
who did you turn to during the pandemic all the artists.
So it's a whole another rant. All right, let's get off of
that. Was back in the flex.
Unfortunately, there just there in that seat.
Back to Netflix being our example.
As we have stated before, I believe we stated before,
Netflix is losing money. And something that people don't
really know. At least I didn't before.
This is Netflix pays all the production costs for their
Originals plus 3% on top of that.
So they are paying more for the content that they are creating.
20:22 was the first time they lost subscribers and this was a
wake-up call to like the entire industry because for so long
they wanted to reach Netflix level but now that Netflix
didn't grow like they lost people for the first time.
They're like oh shit we're all Mortal basically.
Like we're not Untouchable if we don't do this, right?
We are going to crash. So Netflix right now is trying
to figure out how to like, stop going down.
They as we all know they're giving an ad-supported here now
because they keep raising their prices.
But obviously people aren't going to be happy with that.
So giving them an ad-supported allows them to have a lower
tier, but people have to do with AIDS.
That's another rant that I also have four people but I won't get
into that now. Also, I mean, I know this isn't
going for everyone, but password sharing really is affecting
these people because like think about it, everyone does it.
It sucks that they're cracking down on it, but at the same
time, it does make sense. There's so much money that is
being lost by password sharing. and then like everyone because
the economic hour, Economically. We are not doing well.
Like the economy is job doing. Thank you do.
Believe me. The economy is sucking in the
nun. Oh my God, just keep going.
I'm sorry, I can't think so what's happening because of the
economy. There's layoffs laugh.
Alright. Alright let's go with other
notes like stuff. Now there's just so much
happening. There's so much that goes into
it and that's basically the gist of this episode but don't worry.
We're not done yet but wait there's more but wait, there's
more yet. Netflix has a lot of shows like
a lot like you'll never see all of them.
One report stated that they have 700 original shows in A original
movies which is like they have to have more than 80 original
movies, so I wasn't able to look more into that so take that as
you will. And the average Netflix show
gets canceled after season. Two, this is not, it's not
really a surprise. I mean, I'm surprised it's not
season one. Yeah, maybe that's a historic
Trend because like, Orange is the New Black.
I like five seasons and so in the beginning they got more
seasons and now we're going down because there's also like less
competition in the streaming world and now jangling oh and
demand has gone up. Correct.
Well Basically they want shows that will bring in a big
audience and be viewed by majority of subscribers majority
being the key word. So I feel like this is out of
order, but one of the big things that you see, when the show
comes out, is keep streaming it, put it on, in the background,
just keep watching it. No matter what, just eat, sleep,
and breathe the show, but it's not going to help because you
need more people to watch. It's not the numbers that of
streaming that they're looking at.
They want to make sure that a lot of people.
It's the people, the quantity of the people, the percentage of Of
their subscribers watching a show.
How many people do they bring in that?
Watch that show. So you can stream it all you
want, but it's if other people are not watching it as well,
it's not going to matter. Netflix apparently looks at
three metrics to metrics in the first 7 and 28 days which is
households that start a series and how cells that complete a
series. Now everyone especially okay,
I'm using born on, that's the biggest one that happened
recently. Everyone is like you have to
finish in 28 days you have to finish it, watch it.
But they yeah, they were also like watched as much as possible
in 28 days. Now it's the households that
complete it. If you complete it more than
once you've already completed, your only one.
So if you completed three times or so one, Just saying.
And then they also look at the number of subscribers that watch
a show and that was referenced a lot for cancellations to this
one article that I got this info from, Another. aspect of the
cancellations, is that Netflix has to pay the production Clause
so they're not licensing this content like we said they'd pay
the production Cost Plus 30% but they promised increases to the
people each year. So these series are more
expensive after the second season and gets exponentially
expensive each season that they go on.
So for Netflix, it is cheaper for them to cancel a show and
completely just make a new one, then it is to keep a show going.
That's not like Huge success, like stranger things.
Squid games Wednesday. Yeah.
And all that stuff because like everybody watches it, it is
There's no comparison to a lot of the shows and unfortunate.
It's not fair. It's not fair to other shows.
But bunny is just a big part because it is a business.
I already did my need more people to watch and complete
rant, but again, get more people to watch it and also because
people were so obsessed with the top 10.
When you keep re-watching, it it's the number of hours
streamed. So of course, it's going to
inflate the numbers. In the top 10.
So it's going to look like more people are watching it but it's
the same people streaming it again and again and again.
So you don't know exactly how many, it's not really a good
indication of how many people are watching it.
If you're just free watching it over and over.
Okay, and then we get the churn rate.
And now I didn't know what this was before this either.
I think I should have heard of this.
Yes, so the churn rate is basically how many people these
networks are. Well streaming platforms, are
losing's subscribers, so Netflix Is one of the lowest to lose
subscribers. They only lost three point,
three percent in 2022. But the importance of this is
that the number of subscribers I lost went up 66 percent from the
year before. Whereas other platforms may have
a higher churn rate where more people are unsubscribing, but
they're getting less people unsubscribing each year.
So Netflix is the biggest one to lose subscribers and they are
consistently losing subscribers. So that is the use this as an
outlook for the overall business itself.
So basically they're not heading in a great Direction, which is
why Netflix is really scrambling right now.
To figure out their next move which is why we're getting all
of their crackdowns and to try and Salvage money basically and
also Probably why the canceling a lot more.
Because mmm. We'll get there later, I think.
Why do some shows get renewed over others?
This is this is the big one. We've seen on social media as
well. I saw Wednesday be compared to
Warrior none in the beginning and I really don't understand
that one either. Do you think that you can't was
sparked from an advertising point of view?
Because again, the perception is that some shows are getting
actual advertising by the streamer, whereas, others aren't
so part of the Assumption or what people have noticed.
Association, I guess is the right word.
The association is that the shows that are getting
cancelled, are the ones that aren't really being invested in
by the network. So they're like setting them up
to fail, like Warrior down was off the air for like are off the
air. Didn't like we basically to wait
two years for the season two because of the pandemic, right?
It got greenlit for a season 2. Pandemic happen production got
delayed that's how I got tossed in the 2022 bin whereas this
should have been a 2021 show. And so what people notice is
that like there was no Promotion at all for the show.
It just dropped and that was it. Whereas Wednesday had a bunch of
promotion from the network leading up to it.
So, people are saying, like, basically, like they're setting
these shows up, to fail, they're not investing in them.
Hence, why want some succeed and some, don't in a model where
you're trying to get more individuals, to watch it?
If you're not promoting it, how are we going to reach other
people? That's the perception.
And that's where that comparison comes into play.
It's definitely fair. And I, obviously, we're never
going to know why, right? I'll be tried looking at me and
really tried to look into this and could not find a damn thing.
So, we tried, I don't know what this is.
This what happened last night? Yeah, when you were like by you
just literally said, by in the middle of us researching this
know which is valid, but I couldn't find it.
I mean, I don't work in the industry.
Obviously, I just told you I'm a pharmacist.
I tried to research this. I couldn't figure out how these
decisions are made. Honestly, I will say I'm trying
to get us to talk to somebody in programming so hopefully they
will be able to explain a little bit more.
Hopefully they'll agree to an actual interview with us so
everyone else can hear as well if not you can do like a
follow-up episode of just like summarize.
What we've learned It's just a lot.
We're still not done. It's just It's just a lot you
can but like we touched on the Wednesday Warrior and on thing a
little bit again, it was a Content that already had a fan
base. It already.
It's just it's a reboot or like not even a reboot, a spin-off,
whatever off of something that was already established, like on
the visual media platform. Yes, Warrior, none is based off
a comic book from the 90s so technically it's a visualization
of something that already existed.
But The Adams Family has multiple movies that were
Blockbuster success as it was a TV show.
Again, it has generally Generations, know that show so
like it was already going to be successful because people are
like oh I remember this, let me watch it.
Like if anything people were just going to tune in because
they knew what the Adams Family already was.
So like it's really not a fair comparison.
It's like a Marvel movie versus like an independent movie.
Like people already know what these this content is.
This it's Nostalgia people are already going to tune in, like
it's really not a fair comparison and so in a company
that's hemorrhaging money, it would make sense to be like,
let's promote the hell out of this because more people are
going to watch it because they know what it is.
Yes. Yeah and I'm sure I'm sure it'd
cost a ton of money to get the rights to an Addams family thing
also. So they're probably trying to
recuperate whatever went into like getting this content.
Aunt too. So basically there's a lot that
goes into it and that's going to be a lot of decisions that you
don't understand. Because there's a bunch of
things that happen behind closed doors, even like politically in
these Productions as well. Like, you never know, there's so
much that I am totally. Yeah.
Unfortunately, people who aren't the Creator's?
Who hold the purse strings. Get the final say like and it
isn't fair. That's just that as the way
Capitalist World works also because Netflix pays all these
production costs plus like the 30%.
It doesn't make sense for them to allow it to go to another
Network because they put so much money out for it.
Yeah. So that's why there's a huge
fight to get the rights back because the other people have
never owned the rights. It's always been Netflix's and
it's not in their best interest to let it go to another Network.
And now we're gonna go to another thing that was talked
about a lot on social media, the queer on queer fight.
Yes, and brings us to our next assumption.
That we have heard a lot. Women love women, is that how
you say it WL W shows are being cancelled?
Warm and loving lesbians shows her being cancelled but gays are
getting renewed. Right.
Sappho is under attack with the assumption.
Know what out. No Bree Bree.
We can't hear you. Hey there.
Yeah, there you go. I was just trying to make a
we're talking about. Like, like you said Sapphic, but
I want to make sure the bisexuals are seen.
Okay. Oh yeah, I just mean that as an
umbrella term of non men basically loving women on men.
There you go. We're doing this in a different
way. Shows, like, first kill are
being canceled but shows, like heart-stopper are getting
renewed. There we go.
All right. Let's what's?
It's just all complicated guys, it's just complicated.
But one Forbes article has tried to give reasons again, we're all
trying to explain this. We'll never know why.
But here's some reasons why it could possibly be in the realm
of possibilities. They have stayed at for
different reasons, I think is that their flimsy book?
Like this, what you got? We're all the same boat here
ratings. We are used to hearing that
rating. I'm so sick of ratings at this
point, the critics gave heart-stopper 100%.
That's actually pretty damn good.
The fans gave it 97%, well, first kill critics, gave it a
58% And fans give it a 90, which is not a big thing because
Netflix has renewed stuff that critics didn't like before.
Again Supernatural elements are more expensive.
Then a high school. Heart-stopper, could have more
viewers out of the top 10. Also, it could have been that
because we were doing the let's re-watch the show on repeat.
It was inflating numbers. That's my own take though.
And then Source material go ahead?
Yeah, go ahead. They Netflix did say in some
article or whatever about Heart Stopper.
Because heart-stopper, the reason why this one hurt is,
it's not that it got renewed, it said it got renewed for two
additional Seasons like immediately.
I haven't fearing for that. It wasn't even done being
streamed and I saw one of the, one of the it wasn't done, And I
saw one of the reasons which wasn't because Oscar winner,
Olivia Colman isn't it? Which okay, how much of the
budget was just getting her on the show?
I just want a mouse. What?
I'm sorry. I don't know what it is.
Oh my God, it's fine. Let's move past that the reason
I saw that's not that was that it was the subscriber growth,
like individuals watching, it was going up consistently from
week to week and that is there metric.
But like to get two seasons is pretty crazy.
At once from Netflix, my assumption is that they didn't
have to do the pay bump as much because you know how they it
costs each month. More each season.
So we're like okay this is doing really well.
Let's just give in to season so we don't have to like increase
costs as much from year to year. Oh I see.
And then I heard the other reason or I read somewhere
another reason. Something like this happens is
because so both of these stories are Productions are based off of
written material first kill is based off of a short story.
So like one in done in the short story is basically already done
in the first season versus heart stopped.
For which is based off of a book series and I've heard partially
why book series get renewed more easily is because the executives
who aren't the creators, understand where this story's
already going? Because it's already written
down. So it's like Sorry I can't I
don't know what I'm talking about.
Didn't read it. Yeah my bad but yes what Fiora
said, sorry it's really fun. The other people talk please.
I have a tendency to take over but again that one just hurt
because again it like the perception is that okay?
We had a Sapphic ship. So to non men two women, one of
them's a lead person of color. That's the show that gets axe
versus the all like the white leads that are both men.
Like, that's the perception like just looking at the two things
so and then one gets axed, one gets to Ins renewed.
This isn't relevant but I looked up Olivia Colman and I'm
assuming that you know her from fleabag.
Yeah. She's no are from everything,
it's ruptured, know her. But she's been in a lot of
Thomas stuff so I'm sure I know her some put it on the crown
like it's Olivia Colman. I've never seen the crown.
My God. Olivia Colman is a gem and every
time she wins Awards, she never preps her, her speech.
It's like a thing now. So she just fumbles her speeches
when she wins. She is Is the actual best.
So I don't understand how they got her on the show.
Like what were they paying a Livia Coleman?
So anyway I just budget cost to get her that must have cost a
pretty penny but she's amazing the coming out scene to Olivia
Colman in Dart Stoppers one of us.
I've seen nothing that she's been in, sorry.
All right, we've already covered Source material.
Weren't, which brings us to our next assumption?
About Netflix. Or actually call them really
know. Yeah, this is actually, I
forgot. This is all of them, but we're
using Netflix as the example. the assumption is that they
cancel anything that is controversial and I found some
things while looking at Netflix that like I was surprised to
read so Netflix has tried to make a few shows with lgbtq plus
representation in Turkey. Turkey, does not happy.
They had to pull one because it was denied a license due to the
content. and they had to pull another show with an openly gay
character, when there's bunch of social media of campaigns to
boycott Netflix, And it's basically just the Turkish
government like sensory and but because they are a streaming
platform, they don't have to go through censorship.
As much like mmmm. So I think that's how they got
around things. And another instance of them
actually advocating for representation is in is with
this Arabic film, perfect strangers, it sparked, a
controversy in Egypt and West Asia due to a gay character and
taboo breaking story lines and Everyone was like so against it.
Not everyone like the entertainment industry in those
countries where actually rallying behind it.
The actors and Netflix statement to this outrage against this
film was perfect. Strangers is a fictional story
that explores Universal themes, without taking a moral stand and
said inviting the audience to have an open dialogue and
debate, the film tackles tough subjects through humanity and
humor, led by a talented Arab cast focused.
On Creative Excellence. They're like we're just opening
a conversation and letting people decide for themselves
which with countries like the censoring things.
They don't want that conversation to even be a thing.
They're like, this is bad, this is immoral.
We don't do this stuff. You're gonna have gay people.
Anywhere. Queer people lgbtq+.
People anybody in that Community.
Anywhere you go. Oh okay.
My next point is that shows are constantly getting cancelled.
It looks like they're homophobic because our shows keep getting
cancelled. And representation for our
community has gotten better, but the leads are still not
prevalent. Like there's less clearly queer
characters as leads. So it makes it seem like it's
only our shows getting cancelled.
I love how I wanted to put this point in here.
My next note was not really relevant here, but country
Comfort got cancelled before I even knew about it, and it was
such a cute show. It's not queer in the slightest
but it got cancelled after one season and I didn't know about
it until after it was canceled. And I was so sad and it was just
adorable. It's a cute little comedy show
and I suggest it. If you don't mind watching kids
in a show, another point to this is that Netflix doesn't have
Pilots, but I keep wanted to keep talking about this before
now, but here we are. Instead of ordering Pilots where
the network will be able to see a cast chemistry, if they think
it'll work if they want to like, recast anybody and sometimes,
like I think almost half the time, those Pilots don't even go
to Series so you'll never see them Netflix, just orders every
show that they have straight to ones like a series.
So six eight episodes. You will get it.
So the good thing is that you get to see shows that you might
not have seen before especially if they have this
representation, like you don't know if it would have liked
tested. Well But the bad thing is that
it looks like more of our shows are getting cancelled as well,
by Netflix because they're just, they're making everything
basically. So, it's again, pros and cons to
it. But there, I also read that a
lot more platforms are doing it this way.
So it's going to inflate the amount of cancellations we have
each year because obviously, you can't afford to keep making it
too. And also make new shows, Just
trying to like throw it out there and be like, what's going
to stick? with, but they also look at
their analytics, they have also People like to.
Again, I'm not commenting on like specific things.
Don't come at me for be like, you're targeting our fan on and
all that stuff. No, because everything does
this, everybody's like so excited when things trend on
Twitter And this used to be like a huge thing before the for you
trending happened, but now there is like Twitter.
Kool-Aid sets trends for you specifically.
So if you're talking about something and the people that
are interacting with that subject are also talking about
that one thing, it's going to show up as trending for you, but
this doesn't mean that people who don't even know about the
show, we're going to see it. So maybe like, oh look we're
going to see more. People are going to see it
because we're trending. No more people are seeing it
that are talking about it. So that's what it looks like.
These shows are always trying to cause if you notice Like
motherland. ARP.
What you're not? This other always trending.
We're only trending for us. You know?
Maybe they are being enough to try and sometimes Countrywide
worldwide. We don't know because we're
looking at for you Trends, so just just, that's just something
to keep in mind because you can go to different categories of
trending. You can go to a trending in your
country and what's trending globally, but you actually have
to navigate towards that And so I just want to make people aware
of that. but I know that this was a lot of this event, I feel
like the bad person right now, like, giving all the Dozen The
Doom and Gloom know people's like perspective of things.
But like, I don't want people to waste time and energy on things
that don't actually matter. Yeah.
Well that's the thing we've been where we've created trauma
responses where we're adopting behaviors, that are very
time-consuming and seemed defeatist because they never get
us anywhere. and the truth of it is, is that we're operating at a
disadvantage because we are Less percentage of the overall
population and it sucks. And it's not fair.
And we're constantly reminded of that in this scenario, which is
why it hurts and it really like that's why we latch onto these
things to begin with. And then now, we're just losing
all of these things that we resonate with.
That means something to us and it's very hard for us to like,
It's important for us to mobilize as a group, but we are
a smaller portion of people. So, It's harder for us to make
an impact and a lot of things like you mentioned our algorithm
based that are showing us what we want to see.
And it's giving us false hope or skewing our percent perceptive
perspective words of what's happening.
So it's not your fault Caitlin. And this is like thank you for
pointing these things out. Like I didn't know that and I'm
not a huge Twitter person. Obviously.
Have you met me? And sorry.
I'm so, like, I didn't know that.
That it's curating trending. I thought that was just what's
trending on this platform. So to illustrate that example,
I'm on our Twitter account. Trending for you, Beatrice
Warrior known billboard Gap. The series to watch Captain
steers. You go to trending in the United
States. Chiefs Ed Red Eagles, Beyonce
optic. Watch caturday UCLA because I
don't do entertainment The Proposal 10 Things I Hate About.
You Blue Ivy Todrick. Nia Long Percy.
What does things and then 20 year old movies, where are they
turning towards the bottom? Holy war movement, which is
White one of the warrior nodren. So yeah, I'm sure he's looking
at the right trending. People are taking other things
that people say to Heart, like about like ratings and stuff,
and, like things Netflix, looks or look into it yourself.
You can even fact check what we say, but as long as you're
looking into it yourself and not just taking somebody else's word
because that's when Miss information does get spread and
people freak out more. Yeah, because they're just
listening to others. Yeah, so we whole, he's going to
do your own research. We hope if anything, this gave
you a breath of all the things that kind of go not all.
But some things that go on in this very complicated situation
that we are receiving the shitty end of basically and like
Caitlin said like look into it sometimes you can't like we're
not it neck and we're not Executives at Netflix.
We will never fully know what goes on.
I'm in the boardroom. We will never know what the
numbers really look like. Even if we work there we'd be
under an NDA, right? So like we will the sad part in
the shooting part is we never will actually know.
So unfortunately, all we see, are these, what's happening?
And we make Trends because we try to put it together because
that's what human brains are designed to do.
And so, yeah, it's really sad but, you know, based on what we
have found, we think that there's a lot of things factors
that go into this, kind of show was this who was producing it.
Fortunately, we don't get the syndicated stuff anymore.
So like unfortunately TV has been changed forever and this is
what the model is now. So, Maybe sometimes we only get
one season or maybe things will move into mini series versus
shows where it's like, it is one season basically and it's done.
And we tie up Loose Ends, we don't leave devastating endings
or me, never get a resolution, so bounty hunters.
Yeah, I mean, Netflix is one of the things I am looking forward
to is the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo that's going to be
on Netflix. It is a miniseries of a book, so
it will end. There is no Cliffhanger.
Like that's it. It will be produced.
Netflix is actually great at that.
The Queens Gambit was incredible.
It was a mini series one and done so like maybe that's where
they go. We don't know. but I do want to
caution people a little bit to not to add more Gloom to this,
but we have all these shows on streaming platforms and another
thing we didn't really talk about that's going to change is
that keeping these things available on streaming
platforms? Does cost the money so the next
thing they're going to look at really in terms of money saving
is like what do we keep on our library?
And if Netflix, for example, owns exclusive rights to
something like first kill and they're like having this isn't
profitable on our library. They will retire it from the
library. Yes.
Need to talk about why? It's not like why?
It's costing them money? Yeah.
Oh please do but I just want to
finish the thought is that like so some so some shows over time
like we've seen like Discovery do this.
And and some of these streaming platforms already where they
were just taking their original content off of there.
And now, the downside of that is that nobody has access to it.
Because there aren't DVDs. There aren't hard copies of
these things. So like I want to caution you if
you can not that I'm advocating for piracy I'm deaf.
Finally, not advocating for piracy.
I'm definitely not advocating for you to look down below on
how to get stuff to download. Yeah, I'm absolutely not going
to talk about play on home / Cloud.
We're not talking about that, but I will say, if you can find
a way to get a copy of that show and keep it for yourself, I
highly encourage you to figure out how to do that, by legal
means because your favorite show might come off that platform and
then it is available nowhere else because They now own
everything and that's another sad consequence.
Basically of this, the streamer owns the rights to everything
and there is no hardcopy anywhere anymore.
Again, don't look at the description to get our affiliate
link to play on home. Absolutely.
Do not, we not do that now but I don't know what you're talking
about Caitlin. Maybe just explain why they're
doing this, like why is it not possible.
So the reason why these shows are continually costing money
for them, I'm like, I mean, the shows that they license that's
pretty self-explanatory. Like they need to pay for it to
be on their platform but their original shows every time that
people stream it they have to pay royalties to the actors if
they're like if that's in their contract and to the Creator's.
So the friends cancer probably still making bank from friends
they definitely because Seinfeld.
Yeah yeah so I also, there's people like getting like a check
for, like, a penny for from royalties.
For things are like, just don't send it to me, but yeah.
So people are still getting paid for these shows when people are
watch them. So that's why it still cost them
money to have it on their platform.
Yeah. And in honored cable network
thing, that makes sense, because that's what the old school
contracts, right? Like friends and like Seinfeld
those actors and creators and writers in particular.
They're the ones so. Right or contracts are going to
start changing soon too. And there's going to be a writer
strike because they're trying they're not getting the
royalties. They used to get and like
because of that, it's harder to like be a writer professionally
because like, you just have to jump from Project to project to
keep getting money because they used to get rid.
Residuals. But anyway, so that's a whole
nother clusterfuck, that's gonna start happened.
They sometimes will take lower pay in the beginning because
they would get residuals and that would be up for it, right?
And so that's a whole another thing, it's compounding until
like cost and scripted TV and that going to start impacting
stuff. But like the thing that used to
make up for a lot of that is ADS.
Like that's why we have reruns. That's why I like friends with
shows up randomly on like I do. No, I don't watch cable
anywhere, but like, it will show up on a cable network that isn't
NBC, like, randomly on Thursday. Hey guys, I thought it was
tedious. So TBS, every Thursday, or
whatever, like friends reruns and it's because they keep it
going because they sell ads to it.
And that's the ad. Money is how they pay all the
people in the contracts who get residuals every time.
It pays or every time it plays. But on the streaming service
that has no ads, how were they making money?
They're not making money. They're not bringing in ad
money. To like Jesus is why they have
ad execs so I'm wondering if like by pulling it off they're
going to put it in the add sections where they can make
money off of ads so like maybe it will be gone forever.
Maybe we'll be in that a drowned but like platforms that don't
adopt the ads. I have just removed stuff and
it's not accessible anywhere else.
So I just caution people like prepare yourselves.
That's what I'm saying. But the positive and all of
this, like we don't want to end this on a bad note.
I know this is a lot. It's a very sad time.
This was therapy, therapy is hard, it's a process.
But the bottom line to to remember is that like these
shows all exist, like they exist for me and Bree who grew up in
the dark, ages of, like, queer representation in media.
We had to like make shit up and be like hey, they stared at each
other. And there's like 500 Fanfictions
about it. And there wasn't even a 03.
So as she touched her name, I repeat.
That was what we had growing like.
Literally not like we had the Xena.
Do you guys remember Xena, Xena had where the keep your Warrior
queen of context? Wait, right?
Exactly. It's all subjects.
Like all of the eggs, everywhere, text spoiler.
If you haven't finished watching Xena and he plan to skip ahead
and never seen it, It is he in his classic but like the queer
kiss happens when in a dream sequence.
When one of them is like, inhabiting a man's body and the
other ones still themselves and so it's like, yep, you watch.
I wrote watching it as a kid being like, What am I watching?
What that was our queer content? You have to understand?
Or we were always cast as villains because of laws and TV
censorship that we will have a whole other episode about, but
like we had absolutely nothing and so the fact that we're
getting these shows at all is a very good thing.
Like, yeah, we're not gonna cancel it really sucks.
It shouldn't have. It was quality, it was quality
television. First of all, which In the era
of reality TV is hard, but it exists.
The Beatrice and Ava story. It exists.
It is beautiful. It is perfection.
It exists. So, like, revisit the things
that you love, because they exist and they matter, We're not
settling for subtext and weird inhabiting men's bodies so it's
not actually a queer kiss but it is a queer kiss.
As your representationally weird. 18 is a really weird.
Imagine being a child. Try to watch this and you're
like, I don't know what the fuck are the other?
The other time anything happened on the show is when they were
being crucified or had just been crucified because you're allowed
to have quit your content, as long as you're being displayed
as a villain or immoral, that was the Time we grew up in
right? The morality police a terrible
time guys. This stuff exists is huge.
The fatter isn't there. The fact that first kill exist
with a black woman lead with a black family, that's like
healthy family and like role models and stuff that matters.
The fact that the Creator's consciously made this
understanding all of that that matters because we did not have
that decades ago. So things are getting better.
We're still getting persecuted and shut on with our stuff but
like it's getting better. At least we have stuff where
there's leads and I know that like it's not much but it really
is and there are still shows coming out with queer leads.
There are some that got renewed like it's not over things are
still being produced. Like I haven't seen it yet but
the sex lives of college girls. Got a season 3 like Yellow
Jackets word we're just cancel out, didn't line?
Yes. Yeah it's probably a reason for
that. There sure is.
It's a hot mess but like yellow, Jackets, that was something we
got, like, slated for like the whole thing.
And there's clear representation in that.
Like, I know, we're mad at the gay boys, but like, celebrate
the gay boys, like hard stopper. And young Royals are getting new
season, so, like us being leads, isn't necessarily the deal
breaker, it's much more complicated than that.
Also, their representation has been problematic for so long,
like they're let them have that they're finally not the like the
I don't want to be like a disrespectful little bit like
4:30. And yeah exactly like overall
it's getting better and like we're getting queer actors
playing. Queer characters are like actors
coming out just period and like so it's like it's changing.
Its just like it's always one step forward, two steps back and
you just keep going. And are there any things coming
out that you guys are looking forward to?
That's The only thing that in any way shape, or form was
looking, I won't say, looking forward to, I'm curious note
because the papadum section, I don't know if I love this.
I'm just gonna throw it out there. and there's the reason
I'm saying that and it's because it May not be queer, super queer
in the first season. We have to wait for the second
season. If there is, if it gets a second
season, The Last of Us. Oh, yeah, The Last of Us.
Yeah, that I think is very good because she's 14 in the first
season. Yeah.
Oh, Vigil is getting a season two with syringes.
This thing I was pink. Ward to the one thing right now.
There we go, there's that. I don't know anything that's
out. Coming out.
I Do Not A League of Their Own gets renewed, and I have a lot
of movies. We gonna live without this.
Okay, wait. Another one for 2024 on HBO,
Max. Oh, I wonder what it is.
Thanks whisk with Joey Homer, that's going to be.
My Fiora wants to see that. I wonder why we've been hearing
about that since before we were big gay energy.
Yeah. Is the co-star.
I will talk about nothing else for the rest of my life.
Oh dear lord, I Can Dream you measure.
Think that that I would die? Their chemistry is beyond
anything. It doesn't make any sense.
It's so stupidly good and they're both incredible actors.
So let us know if you want the order of rant about killing me
for a whole episode. I don't think that I can
consciously do that. In I have a patient go back
there. Right now, many things to say
about that. There is a podcast in existence
that does killing of Justice. It's called well, Villa del go
listen to it. They do it justice.
But yeah. So basically 2022 soft.
There's no denying that but hopefully, I mean things are
just changing. That's just the way that it is
the queer content is still being made, but I mean, I think it's
time to kind of like set our expectations a little bit
differently maybe because like all the shows are getting acts.
It's not just us, it just feels disproportionate because we have
less to begin with, which is really unfair and Donut.
But I mean overall the good thing I learned by doing this
was that like the representation in general in projects is going
way up, it's more than 50% like that's huge.
Like we had to scramble for shows that even had a queer
character in them. So the fact that they're just
like in shows now is that is good that is a good thing in and
of itself like we need more time to get like the leads for
something that retains multiple Seasons while these fucking
streaming services figure their shit.
Out, because I think the bottom line is, they don't have their
shit figured out and like everybody suffering, until they
kind of figure out how to adapt to like the cluster Fox, and
then a pandemic happen. So, like, everybody got fucked.
Is my boy, I'll listen to our interview with Steven Tyler
O'Connor about casting diverse City in series and it's great.
Yeah, there are Advocates least even their Advocates and casting
he won an Emmy for casting. Like, you know, a It goes on
behind the scenes that we just don't see.
So hopefully this gave a some kind of explanation some kind of
background about out, you know, the war on the queers, the
cancel your queries of 2022. And I'm glad the 2022 is in the
past. I don't know about you guys.
Fuck me, huh? I mean half of things that
happen. So there are some good things.
There were some really messed up things and it's over.
Now we're going, we got to meet at.
That's not was the, that was the big positive for us personally.
Yeah. So, we got to hang out with our
friends in Vancouver. I don't know why I said it like
that. Anyways, it's you 20:23 is going
to be better or I'll punch it in the face.
I have a question for our audience.
Okay. Would you be interested in
hearing us? Talk more about topics like
this. Like, research-based anything
more into this? Just let us know.
Thank you. Have a good day.
All right, thanks for listening. Let us know what you're looking
forward to in company, coming down the pipeline and Fuck
20:22. That shit.
Is that? Leave it in the past.
Leave that trauma in the past. Let's move forward into a bigger
gay or future. Thanks.
Bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. If you liked this episode check
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hydrate for lesbian Jesus.