Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. Today on the Big agenda, we are
talking to the talented Sean Hemmian about the his upcoming
debut novel, The Good Little Drug Lord.
Welcome to the podcast, Sean. Cheers queers, I love that.
Thank you for having me. See it fit right in.
We're so happy to have you and. We're happy.
To hear about your book. Oh boy.
For our listeners at home who may not, you know, know of the
novel, can you explain to them what it's about?
The the one line punchline is it's about a gay Mormon drug
dealing narc for the federal government.
There you go. If that doesn't intrigue you,
what does? Mystery.
Intrigue. I mean, all it has all of that,
all of that, it's and, and I promise you, yeah, you know, it
has heavy moments, 'cause I mean, like, what could lead to
that? But when I first sat down to
write this, literally on the first day, I just said to the to
the sky above me. It was, I was like, I just, I
don't want this to be sad. And so for the first long while,
that was actually the title of the book because I had I had
researched other memoirs and like, God bless them for getting
their story out. But sometimes people just wallow
in like the trauma or, or the I don't, it just becomes almost
like masturbatory in a way. Like it becomes like, look at
me, look what happened. So I was just like, Oh, I can't
do that, you know, And her bad things happened.
But I tried to write this in a way that was entertaining.
So, so just know that, you know, it's a big subject, but you
know, I try to have a light hand, lighter hand.
That's also a great title. Bad things happened, but I
tried. I swear, I don't know if you've
ever been in a position, I don't know if you, if you're authors
as well, if you had to had a, you know, create a tile title.
It is. It is shockingly hard to come up
with the right title to encapsulate everything you know.
You see, Simple. Go ahead.
Sorry. Go ahead.
No, no, no, no, no. I 'cause no, I want to relate.
Tell me. Tell me.
I had to title a documentary.
Very difficult. Oh, geez.
Yeah. Well, you, you see titles and
sometimes they're simple words, but then you're like, wow, that
could mean this, this, this and this, and people have no idea.
The author spent probably a year going through like hundreds of
words just to be like, that's the title.
Finally. It feels good when you land on
it. You do know it.
So, yeah, and the good little drug Lord is is, you know, the
drug Lord is the obvious part, but the good little is so the,
you know, the peak moment of the story.
There was some things that I did that I that brought my character
into question, that things that I never thought I was capable of
or would ever do or could ever do.
And so I lived with that. And so in this memoir, I go
backwards in time as well. I go backwards through my high
school closeted gay Mormon years and even to my younger age.
Hence the good little, because I was the good little boy.
I was the good little Mormon boy.
How could I go from the good little Mormon boy to this drug
Lord? So that's why the title is, you
know, that's what I'm working with right now.
So. It's a good title.
It is a good title. OK, good.
I'm glad you like it. So what inspired you to write
this memoir? And like, now's the time.
Yeah. Well, so I've been in recovery
for, you know, in April, I'll have 20 years, 20 years of
sobriety, which is crazy, crazy. 20 years.
It's just how did that happen? And my first, you know, 5 or 10
years, my first five years, I'll say, you know, I, you know, I
came up in, you know, rehabs and 12 step rooms and, you know, in
those rooms we, we share our story, you know, that's how we
connect. And so I shared their story a
lot. But I was such a shell of a
human that like I got so much validation and gratification
from people's like oohs and ahs like what you were an informant
for the federal government. What is that?
What Russian mafia, what you know, So like, I would get off
on that. And then as I, you know, did
more recovery and more inner work.
The story just lost. I just, it's almost like I took
the story, put it in a box and put it away.
I was like, I that's not who I am.
And you know, cut to now you know that, you know, you know,
almost 20 years later, I, I pulled it off the shelf again
because it's not who I am now. It's not a story that
represents, you know, Sean, as I am talking to you and I'm
separated enough from the story not to feel like it's my
identity, you know, the guy with that story.
So that's one reason. But but to be honest, like the
the real reason is I'm going to jump off the deep end here.
I'm going to get into a quick story, but I'm just so you just
warning, I'm jumping into the deep end and it has has a point
because it's going to answer your question.
When I was like after I was arrested, which I can get into
how I even got there. But after I was arrested and
they turned me into to inform men and I was like, I'm not a
rat. I'm not going to inform, but
everybody, this is Washington, DC not wanting to deal with me.
I figured I needed to go get drugs in other cities and bring
them back and so I could work my way up to suppliers around DC.
I'm going real fast here just to give context.
You're good. But but this is the when I said
earlier, like, you know things against my character that you
know who I thought I was. And then I'm faced with the
situation. So in one of those trips, I'm
I'm, I'm trafficking drugs through airports, But at this
point I'm going South closer to the Mexican border, like I'm
going down to Atlanta and Florida and New Orleans where
it's a little bit cheaper to get like mass and, and then and then
I'd fly back. This is like 2004.
And so I hate to say this, but surprisingly easy to traffic
drugs to the airport for a guy who's 22 and looks like a dumb
ass white frat kid. You know, I would buy tickets
one way a day of which is an automatic red flag, but they put
me in a line with 20 other Middle Eastern looking men
because this is post 911 and that's all they cared about.
That was a side note. Anyway, on one of these trips,
my supplier, I had met one of his friends and basically long
this is a whole chapter in the middle of the book.
But he he Od'd and I'm I gave him the drugs and it was a whole
classic scenario. We dropped him at the ER and
like, got the hell out of there. The thing that I hold onto from
that experience is like, I could, my brain was so warped
from, you know, not sleeping for three or four days, all the
drugs, everything I went through and my brain could not believe
that this person was dying literally in front of me.
And so I, it took me, I acted too late.
By the time I acted, I was like, wait, I was a lifeguard.
And so I tried CPR, but it was it was too late.
Like I, I hold on to, I could have acted sooner and it scared
me enough that I stopped traveling.
Now the part the reason I wrote the book is because two weeks
later, I'm still out there. I mean, out there as in like,
you know, about to be going to prison.
Anyway, two weeks later after that, we dropped this kid at the
ER dead. I get a random phone call and
it's this woman with like this deep like southern, like Alabama
like, and she immediately is like, please don't hang up.
And I'm like, well, who's this? And then I realized I was the
last phone number that this young man called.
So I was the last number on his phone bill and this was his
mother. And my brain immediately was
like, this is this is a setup. I can't confess anything.
This is a setup. This is a setup.
But literally it was this mother just begging to know what
happened to her dead son. Yes, you know, the toxicology
report probably said, you know, he had this in his body.
But how that happened, she just wanted to know how she just
wanted to know. She just wanted to please don't
hang up. Please.
I just want to know what happened like begging and you
guys, I hung up on her because I was paranoid.
I was scared. I was all these things.
And so that's that's 20 years ago and I still feel that like I
got, you know, after I got sober a year later, I tried to find
her. You know, I tried to find the
hospital. I try, I tried to do everything
I could to reach her and be like, look, this is what
happened to your son. You deserve to know.
I couldn't find her. And then I tried in the last
couple years and I couldn't find her.
I don't even know if the hospital still there.
I don't even know. I look through obituaries, but
judging by her accent versus like where I was in Atlanta, I
was like, like I said, it's probably like in Alabama
somewhere. Like I don't like I met that kid
that night and I just wanted, I just want this mother to know
what happened to her son. So my book is like a message in
a bottle. It is, it is like the fantasy of
what if this does reach her like that, would you know?
It was so, so in a way it, it is, it is my amends to her for
not being able to reach her. If it, you know, I wrote it
specifically even though I'm LGBT and that is definitely a
theme in there. I tried to write, I don't want
to say I didn't. I tried to write in a broad
enough way where like mothers would want to read this because
my relationship with my mother is core to this.
So I wanted to reach as wide as audience as I could truly with
the goal of reaching this mother who could, you know, she may not
be alive and she may, she may be, you know, she probably be
like early 70s at this point. I don't know where she is.
But you asked why I wrote this. And like, this was truly
majority of the motivation was to reach this mother, you know,
and of course behind that is the amends for myself and moving
forward. But I, I it really is primary
and it really drove me. It, you know, it's still driving
me like I want this to be very successful for her.
That makes sense. Hey, I told you.
OK, good. I told you we were going to dive
off in the deep end. Like we're right into it.
Now that's a powerful reason to write this book.
I really hope it reaches her. Yeah.
I know it's like Oprah calls me and she's like come in for an
interview and it's like, guess what?
Or. Something.
Oh my God. Could you imagine, like, not
even knowing why you're there and then like having to have
that cop That would, first of all, that's a lot for everybody.
Involved. Yeah, I know, I know.
So I who knows what'll happen? You know, who knows if I'm, who
knows if, if I'm supposed to reach her?
Who knows if I, you know, it's, it's I'm just, I'm just going
step by step with this. And if that fuelled me, then I
took it and the book is here. And then the, you know, when
it's released and, and it's out there in the world, that's the
next step. And we'll just see what we'll
see what happens with it. So again, if I'm supposed to
reach her, I'm supposed to reach her.
She couldn't, she could have found a way to move on and just
doesn't want to even hear about it, you know, So I don't, I
don't know. I is.
There any details where if she like someone close to her could
even. I think yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, no, I, yeah. There's enough details around
the time and age and how he looked and generally where.
So there's enough that like, oh, you know, I know somebody with
the sun around that age, around the spring of 2004 in Atlanta,
who, you know, I'm sure a lot of people Oded around that time,
but how many actually Oded that? I'm also describing as he was,
he was also, of course, I remember it this way, but he was
very attractive, like Abercrombie outside of the bag
model attractive. Of course, I remember that.
But I, I also remember some details about some pat, like bad
experiences he was having with his ex who, whose family is very
religious and was like literally keeping them apart and stuff.
So there's some details there, but the guy, the supplier, the
one that I was actually friends with, his number, I can't even,
I don't even know where. I don't, I don't know what's up
with him. Like a year later, I couldn't,
his phone number was disconnected, so I couldn't even
reach him. Who'd have more information?
You know, maybe he reads out and then like fills me in.
I don't know. So, yeah.
So we'll see. I mean that it's becomes once
this is released, it's out of my hands.
That is true. That is true.
So the, the novel, in the novel, as you mentioned, you grew up
Mormon and you know, from the novel there's a, there's a
degree of like talking about like conforming and like in
general, like when you conform, usually there's some kind of
price that comes with that, especially when it's conflicting
with like who you are authentically.
So how did you handle that topic in the novel?
You mean like, how did I, how did I talk about my younger self
being a good little Mormon boy? Yeah, Basically, yeah.
Yeah. Because part, because part of
it, you know, because going backwards in time, I really
wanted to explore the, the effect it had on me.
You know, my mother, she knows, she, she, she read the book
already. She knows all of this.
And, and so I can say that like she was quite depressed, you
know, quite overwhelmed. I had six other siblings.
So there was seven of us and it was, you know, she was, she was
a not in a good situation or had space.
My father, I will say, was raised Irish Catholic and so he
was not Mormon and that's important because I think it
helped loosen the hold on me. However, my mother was my, the
one I needed the validation from.
So I, she was the one whatever she needed.
So that's why I was like the best little Mormon boy and I
was, you know, all little gay boys are close to their mothers
like that. You know, I've four other
brothers and I was like, I'm going to win.
F you all watch this, you know. And so I became like, you know,
my, my absent father, who, you know, was overwhelmed with
trying to earn enough money to support seven kids.
Of course, he's absent. I was like my mom's best friend.
So that meant being a good Mormon and then a few brothers.
I win, you know, but but believing that, believing, you
know, the world I lived in was the Mormon God's world and the
the Book of Mormon was true. And, you know, Joseph Smith, you
know, really talked to the angels and the golden plates.
And by the way, that's a whole other subject.
I'm happy to do another podcast just on the Mormon origins
Anyway, side note. But believing that, you know,
and not not being allowed to question it.
I do remember being precocious as a kid being like, yeah, but
that doesn't, that doesn't make sense.
And then my Sunday school teachers being like, come down,
don't ask questions, you know? Cut to 13 and 14 in the advent
of AOL and the Internet and these curious thoughts happening
and exploring it online and realizing, oh, there's not,
there's some, you know, there's some dissonance starting to
occur within me and realizing, you know, I remember very
clearly, like in 1993, being right outside DC, like I said,
where I grew up, my mother and I, we, we, we, we love to watch
Star Trek, the Next Generation, you know, Patrick Stewart, Jean
Marc Picard, I know. And we'd always watch that
together. But there was like a news break
and it was about the in 93. There was like a gay March in
DC. I think it's like act up, you
know, it was, that was, I think it was during the time of the,
was it during the quilt? I just remember there was a
March in DC around 93 and on the news you saw drag Queens, men in
leather, women holding hands. Like you saw, you saw
everything. And I just remember my mother
turning it off and going disgusting.
And that was the moment I think I realized I was gay.
Well, because I started sinking into the couch.
I started. I could feel this, like, shame,
like, vibrating through my body. Like, I mean, I was radiating
heat. And I was like, next to her.
And I was worried she was going to like, I mean, I just melted.
And that reaction told me something, told me everything.
And so that's when the thoughts of like 13 or 14 a year old
should not want to die. But that's when that came up
because then I, because then the equation became, according to
the Mormons, this is like a curse, like a disease to be gay,
like you did something wrong to get this thing that I can't seem
to change. So then the equation followed
that I must have done something wrong or bad to God for him to
curse me with this. I don't know what it is, but it
must have been fucking terrible. So I'm a awful human being.
I'm 13. This is what I'm thinking.
Like I've been cursed with the gay, with the disease of gayness
by a God who must live with me. And that's the world I existed
in. That's where that's how I that's
how I that's how the Mormon connection evolved.
And so I tried to be the best little Mormon boy at that time,
but it just wasn't. It would it would vacillate
between that and then AOL and like talking to 15 male New
York, you know, you know, as you know, age, sex, location.
Do you remember back in the day? That's what that's what it was
that way back and you don't even really know if it's a 60 year
old man in Australia like you've no idea, but you know, so that
at night and then going to, you know, being a good little Mormon
boy. And then I, I lasted in the
Mormon church until about 1516. Now my two older, my eldest
brother went on his mission, BYU, the whole 9 yards.
My two other brothers, by the time they got to high school,
they were like, F this. They became more like my dad who
made fun of the religion. But I held on.
I went to, you know, Mormons, They send their, I think, I
think the most abusive thing is sending your high school kid to
church before school every morning.
So you're getting them at 4:35 AM.
So then go to school, Sunday school for like an hour, an hour
and a half, and then go to high school.
I'm like, that's when they need the most sleep.
What are you doing to them? Yeah, it's called seminary.
It's it's very common. It's very, very common.
So but around 1516, you know, I was starting to question it and
then the biggest thing that happened was I started having
feelings for and this is all in the book, but for my he became
my like best friend. We played football together and
I got his screen name and I pretended to be somebody else
online. And I swear my, my brother's
birthday, I'm sorry if that's making noises.
My, I found out his screen name and I pretended to be somebody
else. And I, you know, got the, the
vibe that he was like into guys as well.
And, and, and then that turned into one drunken night and all
four years of high school, he was my undercover lover.
And it saved my life because what I felt for him, it felt so
right. So I was able to use that as a
bulwark against this God that said, you know, that I must have
done this horrible thing to, to curse me with gayness because I
was like, if this feels so right, that has to be wrong.
And and I, I mean, I gripped, I mean, I had a tight grip on that
mantra, on that thought, because again, it just, but it made him
my entire world, my entire world.
So when that thing ended, when he so tragically left me for
somebody else, by the way, no teenagers equipped to have the
kind of relationship we had. So when that when that ended, my
world ended. And and my, my outing was, was
when I tried to physically harm myself, you know, which, you
know, if it was one of those things like if I die, I die, But
you know, I really harmed myself.
And that was my outing to my, you know, my Mormon mother
begging me to know what happened.
So I told her the first thing she says to me was, do you have
AIDS? It's like, and then she started
crying and she was like, I'm not going to have grandchildren.
I was like, this is all about you, isn't it?
This is this is anyway, that's where I actually start the book
is is that 19? Because, you know, didn't
resolve any of those issues. So I dove head 1st and got a
drug dealer boyfriend because that's what you do it.
Sounds like a great movie. There's.
There's there's like many sequels and.
Yeah, so well. Before a memoir.
Well, I also, I mean, I am a screenwriter and, and I, I, the
memoirs I did read and researching this and stuff were
the ones, the ones I really enjoyed were the ones that felt
that read like fiction. And so I intentionally also, you
know, try to write this as if it were a thriller, like a fiction,
you know, because as cinematic as possible, because I just
think I just, I just want, I wanted a page Turner.
I wanted people to like, really get into this and, and almost
forget that it was a memoir and then finish it and be like,
wait, what? That actually happened, You
know, just to really invest in the experience.
That's what I like to read. I, I, I appreciate again,
authors who even get a memoir published.
I get lost sometimes when it gets too flowery, too flourishy,
too moving away from the action and into this experience that
happened with their mother when they were 2 1/2.
But it has no context of what's happening in the chapter.
You know, that kind of thing. I, I'm not, I don't.
I again, it's Impi. It's really hard to write a
book. I don't want to bash anybody,
but that's just my preference. Well, we're very excited to read
it. Is there a particular maybe
chapter or part of the book that was emotionally really hard to
write but felt essential to include?
Girl. All of it.
Well, well, the OK, so a lot of it, obviously the one chapter
where the young man died, that was, you know, I, I, I'd finish
multiple chapters and just sit and cry.
I am, I am feeling like that. OK, I, the hesitation is because
I haven't said this out loud on a podcast yet, because there is
one chapter that I feel like can answer this question.
It's just like I'm just trying to get it out with that
undercover boyfriend. He his home situation.
He lived with his grandmother and step grandfather because
both his parents separately on different occasions were killed
in bad drug deals. His grandmother, though very
loving, had a husband who drank a 24 pack of Budweiser daily and
was like abusive to this my my lover to the point where he'd
had bruises and so my mother took pity and said he needs to
live with us. So my boyfriend, undercover
boyfriend, who I'm madly in love with, lived with me my junior
year of high school. Like I said, no teenager is
equipped to deal with that as, you know, as an adult, like
living with my husband, it's like we're still, you're working
out roommate things all the damn time.
Like it's just like, you know, you can have your lover, your
friend, doesn't matter. They're still your roommate and
there's still some very basic roommate thing.
Anyway, he lived with me, my second oldest brother, very
emotional, deep into alcohol and drugs at that point, you know,
learning disabilities. The world just felt he didn't
have a place in the world. He in Virginia, there's this
college that you go to if you fail out other colleges.
He failed out of that one. Like he just didn't have the
things. And so he came back home.
My father owned a service station, so he came back home to
be an oil change technician. So this guy doesn't feel very
good about himself or the world. He came back home and my bedroom
was in the basement. So he came back home and lived
in the other part of the basement while my, you know, my
undercover boyfriend was living with us.
He, unlike anybody else, for some reason could sense
something he just did not like, you know.
So we tried to hide, you know, my my undercover boyfriend.
But we one weekend he undercover boyfriend and I came home
plastered off like some Stoli vodka, whatever, you know, just,
you know, vomiting in the toilet, taking turns and I
crawled in my bed pass out and he crawled passed out on top of
me but left the light on. So woke up a couple hours later
to my brother drunk himself, ripping him off, throwing him
across the room and just screaming.
My brother's not a faggot. My brother's not a faggot.
And all I can think is to protect undercover boyfriend.
So I get between them, but my brother's fists were already
flying. And so I, you know, get knocked
down, come back up, get knocked down, come back up.
And I just was defending. I just needed to defend, you
know, they're trying to get my boyfriend out of there, like,
run, run, run. So it didn't end well.
I kept getting in my brother's face and I was like, resolved to
not move. I was resolved to like, you
could, you could murder me, it wouldn't matter.
But you're not going to touch him.
And I think my brother finally saw that, saw what he was doing
and, like, panicked and then ran upstairs with my mother.
Anyway, the next day, my mother sat me down and I'm fully
expecting her to be like, we're going to deal with your brother.
I'm so sorry this happened. Instead, my mother was like,
yeah, ex-boyfriend. He's got to leave.
Not ex-boyfriend, undercover boyfriend.
His name is Derek in the book. She's like, yeah, Derek, Derek
has to leave and can never come back.
And that was that was it. I was like, do you see my face?
What about my brother? She's like, we'll take care of
that. They never did anything.
My dad never talked about it. Siblings never talked.
Nobody did. And then we moved on.
And. And so I lived with that.
And and that chapter was hard to write because this is my brother
and he's gay bashing me. And he's it made me hate him for
10 years. And then, you know, we've
healed. We've talked about it, but the
last chapter in the book, you know, I had to have a happy
ending. I had to have something.
So the last chapter in the book, I talk about my wedding to my
now husband, who I prefer to, you know, got married two years
ago. And, you know, I first talk
about my mother genuinely wanting to walk me down the
aisle, still being Mormon, but just I mean, she loves my
husband more than me at this point.
Like it's really sweet, you know, this journey she and I've
been on and she, she just couldn't wait.
She just so happy. But I also talk about, Oh, I'm
going to get emotional, you guys, there's this, there's this
moment, there's this photo and video, But there's this photo
where my husband and I, after the ceremony, we walked halfway
down the aisle and we stop and we, we, we kiss again.
And it's this great photo because everybody's around us
cheering. I'm going to get emotional, but
then you see right behind me, like near the front row, that
brother, I mean, probably the proudest, happiest.
I mean, just like in the video, you can see him just clapping
like genuinely so, so happy for me.
And it touches me every time because it's just this journey
that we humans that I don't know, it's just I never expected
my brother and I'd have any kind of relationship ever.
But knowing what he was going through, knowing what I was
going through and the mess of shit that made us have that
terrible conflict, which again, on the surface is straight up K
bashing. But underneath that, there's so
much going on. He was in pain, I was in pain,
all kinds of stuff. So we're in this beautiful place
now. We're great friends.
But that chapter was very hard to write because, yeah, one,
that happened. Two, I, I, I'm, I feel bad for
my brother. I genuinely feel bad.
I don't, you know, I had to put that happy ending in there
because I needed people to know that people do evolve and people
do grow. People do change and people can
forgive. But anyway, that's.
You're going to make me emotional.
Well, this is one of many chapters that actually made me
cry. And, and again, I don't want
this to be sad. So I I tried to write in a way
that was still entertaining, though.
Like, man, I I wanted that experience where you know how
one second you're just laughing your ass off.
You're like, Oh my God, that's so funny.
Then literally you'd think of an eye.
You're sobbing. Like I wanted, I wanted the
reader to have that experience, those quick turns.
Yeah. Happy Saturday.
There's a roller coaster memoir. Yes, Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I, I still, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm an actor by trade.
I I'm a storyteller. Like, I I get it.
Like, let's, let's, let's. I still want to entertain.
I can't help it. Hey, the world needs stories.
Yeah. So Speaking of storytelling, we
saw that you received the Writers Boot Camp LGBTQIA Plus
Fellowship. So how did that, what is that
and how did it impact your writing?
And like, what did you take away from that experience?
Oh my gosh, thanks for picking that up.
That is they the writers that boot camp, they, they're founded
here in in LA. They've been around since the
late 80s and they they've been, they're like shepherds.
They generally have been shepherds for screenplays and TV
pilots and, you know, have some great, you know, a great roster
of people who've come through the program.
So side note, obviously you can gather from the interview that I
may not have finished college. And when the pandemic hit, I was
like, how many credits do I have?
Because I don't really need, you know, with what I do as an
artist, I don't necessarily need a degree, but I was like, how
many credits do I have? And, and then that research I
found, you know, the University of Virginia had a wonderful
program for people in my position.
And so I finished my degree. I got ABA in creative writing
from UVA through the pandemic. And part of the final thing was
researching other memoirs and beginning to organize how this
memoir was going to, you know, happen to, you know, my, my main
professor. She's, you know, published
memoirs. And so so I worked with her.
But that was the summer of 2023. Yeah, summer of 2023.
And then from there I had enough of AII guess I outline treatment
of what I was going to do and, and the fellowship was they, I
don't, I don't necessarily know why the boot camp at that moment
was like, we're opening this up to an LGBT scholarship.
Maybe they just do it every couple years.
I did notice like last year they did a BIPOC scholarship.
So it's like, OK, cool. So they're, they're opening it
up. They're really helping that out.
So I submitted and, and they, they, they accepted me.
It's, you know, saves me quite a lot of money.
I am very grateful. And it was, it was a 10 week
program where again, really building, not necessarily
getting to page just yet, but building the structure, you
know, in a structured environment, building the
structure of the book that would tell the story in the most
impactful way possible. And so it was essentially a
class, honestly. But I mean, they, you know, they
call it a boot camp because I mean, you're, it's a lot of work
you're getting in there. It was, it was actually the best
way to say this. It was another college course.
So I was like primed for that. I was like, OK, we got this.
But the significance was that getting it, especially at that
time that I was graduating was like my clear sign from the
universe that like this is, this is the direction you're going to
head in now. So commit to this.
And and that's exactly what I did.
I was like, just put my head down and keep going.
And you know, here I am 18 months to well, the summer will
be two years. So like later with like talking
to you ladies like about this book that like it's going to be
coming out there. So yeah.
So it was, it was inspiring and and it it it was my signpost
from the universe. Like keep going, keep going.
Yeah, and here we are. I do have a.
Memoir that's being published. Amusing.
Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
If you could go back in time and give your younger self one piece
of advice, what would it be? And would you even try to give
yourself advice? I it's I'm laughing.
I don't know if you watch Drag Race at all.
Do you imagine? Yeah, yeah, it's fine.
But I'm sure some of your listeners have listened to Drag
Race. But RuPaul at the end of the
final episode asks that question to the three finalists, 3 or 4
finalists every time. And so for the past however many
seasons I've watched, and I'm like, yeah, what would I, what
would I say? And then, and then I've never
dug deeper than that. And then I just did another
interview last week and he asked me the same question.
I was like, oh, now I have to answer it.
What would I say? What would I do 'cause because
the truth is, is like, if I say something, it's like, it's like
the time travel paradox. If I actually say something to
my younger self, it changes the trajectory.
Do I change who I am currently? Like, does it, you know, the
things I have to do in recovery in order to really love and
accept and trust and believe in myself, which I genuinely feel
like I do, is a boon now is a prize for going through that.
So do I change that? So what I told him and what I
feel is true for me, I think the most important things said in
this world are the things between what is being said.
Meaning I would go back to him and just, I'm going to cry again
and just sit with him and just hug him period.
That's what I would do. I could warn him what's coming.
It doesn't matter. That little boy just desperately
wanted to be, you know, feel seen, feel held, you know, feel
like he existed, like he wasn't invisible and part of the wall.
I just hold him to be honest, because I'm a mess too now.
Like I would just be like, can I have a hug?
That's what I would do. I mean, I would help.
I do believe we have a purpose and a journey.
So if anything, I would just help make that a little bit
lighter knowing what he was about to go through just a
little bit. Like, I'm so sorry, buddy, but
here's a hug. That was the answer.
I just need a hug. Yeah.
It's hard to answer that because, I mean, you're nodding
your head, so I get you. Agree that, like, does it change
who I am now versus like, you know, if I have to go through
it, then can I at least make it a little easier for the guy?
I'm not. I haven't talked about the, you
know, the molestation. I haven't talked about all the
other really fun topics that I don't want to talk about because
I want to keep this fun. But I'm just saying like,
there's things he had to go through, not had to.
I don't want to say it like that, but there's things that he
I went through, yeah. But made it you who you are
today, and you're accomplishing things, and you're here talking
to us. Yeah, so.
You've come so far. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah.
I just don't want this to be sad.
Well, on a happy note, so you did mention at the beginning of
the interview that this year will mark one years of sobriety
so early. Congratulations.
Thank you us. Thank you SO.
How will you be celebrating this milestone?
Oh, it's a good question. I get to finally think about
that. I don't want to jinx it, but I I
think I'll make it. You know, depending on what
coast you're on, you know, with the 12 step rooms, they either
say, you know, anniversary congratulations, or they say
happy birthday like a renewal. So I'm on the coast where
you'll, I'll take a cake and, you know, they'll sing happy
birthday, 'cause it's, you know, it's a renewal.
It's, it's a new birth, it's a new life.
And I, I like to, I, I like to, I could throw a party, but.
I'm less inclined to do that and rather just have a smaller get
together where it's a little more intimate and I can
genuinely express my gratitude for the people that have helped
me get me to where I am. Because it's this thing about
recovery. It's not something I did, it's
something everybody else did for me because I asked for help.
Well, I guess that's the part I did.
I asked for help. So it's just as much about the
people in my inner and outer circle as it is about me.
So I would do just it would be a smaller focused celebration of
everything I'm grateful for and worth being grateful for.
Because I mean, this story, when you read it, you'll fully
understand when I say I have this superpower now where if I'm
having a really shitty day, I can just remember my past and
I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. Moving on.
We're good. We did it, we're here.
So it's it's a gift to be able to be like, yeah, nothing
compares to then. So let's just smile and move on
with our with our day. So it's it's almost like giving
back to those people who gave to me.
To answer your question, that's what I'll be doing.
That's wonderful. It is.
Thank you. Oh.
So we've talked about it a little bit, we've touched on it.
You're not only a writer, but also a talented artist and actor
as well. So I saw that you were in a web
series, Husbands, which was ground breaking as one of the
first web series to focus on a same sex marriage.
So can you talk a little bit about your experience on that
show? Oh my goodness, I miss it so
much. I miss it so, so, so, so much.
So, you know, believe it or not, now on TV, it's very easy to
see, you know, gay characters that weren't cliches.
But you know, 12 years ago, 14 years ago that the gay
characters that we saw were just cliches and they were side
characters. They were, that's what they
were. I feel so old saying that
because that feels like common knowledge, but I feel like
there's a generation coming up that just are used to gay leads
or gay, whatever. I mean, you know, 14 years ago,
you know, may not, we may not have seen, I don't know,
Jonathan Bailey as, you know, being out, you know, doing his
thing, you know, Anyway, so. So some TV folks got the bright
idea to push that by proving there's an audience by first
doing it online as a web series without, you know, because it
takes the risk away because then they can show the numbers to the
networks and be like, you should pick this up because look at
this. And that was Jane Espenson, who
at the time and still is a major, you know, TV writer.
She does a lot more science fiction.
And I guess our show was science fiction at the time.
Newlyweds Sitcombo 2 Guys But she you know, she she came up on
Buffy. So she did all of all of Buffy
and with, with Joss. And at that time she started to
do yeah, yeah, yeah. She was so she was, she did some
episodes of Game of Thrones at that time when it came out.
So she's done a lot and she's you can look her up.
She's just she's the queen of sci-fi and you know, so she
wrote that with another YouTube personalities fella named Cheeks
and, and they pulled in. The director ended up being one
of the producers of Will and grace of friends.
And so it was like, well, there you go.
You know, and because of them, they've they filled the show
with TV actors like name and people you'd recognize, you
know, Jon Cryer or a lot of people from the sci-fi world,
because again, James, you know, brought them in.
And so that was the plan. It was like, let's build up the
followers and they, you know, the episodes were not your
normal 22 minute pilot length. Excuse me, they were shorter
than that because that way you built up the views and stuff.
And we got millions of views. You know, we did three seasons,
millions of views. We were the first podcast
podcast. We were the first web series
that The New Yorker reviewed, that Time magazine reviewed.
They were just like, this is this is it, This is everything.
And so The CW picked us up and oh, and not so great was the new
normal. I guess that was Ryan Murphy's
take on a newlywed, not newlywed, but gay sitcom.
Andrew Reynolds and some other guy based on Ryan Murphy's life
or something. I don't know if you remember
that. It was like a comedy series.
It did not do well. It did not do well at all.
So that did not look good for us.
But ours was actually funny. Oh, that sounds like a cut.
I didn't mean to sound like I was just funny.
Genuinely, really, really funny. The new one was like, OK, I
think they were playing it extremely safe because they
were, you know, a network thing at that time.
So regardless to CW was like, we love you, we want you, let's do
this. And they first put us because
every, every, every network was scrambling to build a streaming
platform. And so it was like CW seed.
We were their flagship show and they were pushing us out with
that. And it was great.
And then we were, and then we were in talks to, you know, be
one of their main shows on The CW because everything was
pointing in that direction. I'm not a producer on the show.
I played one of the husbands. I played one of the leads.
I was, you know, part of all of that.
But I don't know. I was told it was being made
into a show. And then, but because I'm not a
producer, I wasn't in the room. So I don't know.
I don't exactly know what happened, but it did not move
forward. And that was tragic for this
actor. When you're when you're being
told like, hey, it's your time. Finally, you're going to be the
lead of the show. Look at you go, this is it.
You made it and then and then it now moving forward and then
disappearing and then all of the excitement's gone.
And then like you get depressed for a year and you're like, why
am I doing this? I hate Hollywood.
I'm going to go paint. That's essentially how I started
painting, you know, so I think you can still find episodes on
YouTube somewhere. I know they had to take it down
because of I think you can do the third season, but I don't
even know again, I not being the producer, I don't know the the
the insurance and outs of why all of it isn't up there because
I I literally have fans from the show who still follow me on
Instagram and message like, wait, can I how do I still watch
this in the Uki how do I do this?
That the other like it was a good show.
It was a good show. So all.
Three seasons are on YouTube there.
Is someone. Made a.
Playlist with all of them so you can just start hit play and all
of them will start going. Oh, good.
Oh, God. OK, cool.
K, thank you for that information.
K Thank you. Thank you, Thank you.
You can watch. It I'll send you the link.
Thank you. Please do.
I didn't. I thought it was only the the
the the last last season. Oh, there we go.
Yep. OK, cool.
All right. There you go.
There it is, everybody. And it is funny.
Thank you, thank you. It was smart.
It was, it was, it was it's like whip crack.
Like it's smart, it's funny. And if you're a sci-fi fan,
you'll recognize every like Amy Acker.
Oh gosh, oh, oh, what is his name?
Oh my gosh, He played my father my very.
So because I was Mormon, they gave me Mormon parents.
Michael Hogan. I don't know if you're a
Battlestar Galactica fan, but I was like super fan before the
show. I watched it all.
It's just an epic show. And Michael Hogan plays the like
second in command or something. Just this gruff, like just white
hair like and look, I'm I'm an actor yes, I am a professional,
yes, but I'm also a fan. So of course in the middle of me
doing my scene with Michael Hogan, my oh, that's his name.
My brain is like listening to him.
You know, we're doing the father son moment, but my brain is
like, why is Colonel Ty looking at me?
I was like, my brain was like warped, like what is happening
right now, you know, good. Again, I'm an actor, I'm a
professional, but of course I'm also a fan, so.
Yeah, you. Can help it.
It was a trip, you know, I mean, when you watch, when you watch
stuff and you spend time, you know, you, you feel like you
know the characters, therefore you feel like you know the
actor, but it's not the actor, it's the character that you feel
like, you know. So when you see them in real
life, your brain's like, it's this weird disassociation of
like, I know this person, but that person has never met me in
my entire life, you know, so. So, so Speaking of your, your
acting career, so as somebody who's a part of, you know, the
LGBTQ umbrella and you've been part of LGBTQ media, how do you
feel that the industry has evolved in terms of queer
representation over the years? Because you kind of touched on
like why husbands was groundbreaking and things like
that, but. Well, there's two fronts to
that. I mean, there's one where where
the actor personally can be out and thriving again.
Jonathan Bailey, other examples even before him, you know, I
haven't said Matt Damon, but Boomer, you know, Jonathan
Bailey's about to be like the lead of like a blockbuster
Jurassic Park. And I don't, you know, Jurassic
Park World, whatever, whatever. Anyway.
So on one level, it's the idea that an actor can be out is
changed dramatically. And, you know, a lot of times I,
I, I also, I, I think of the hypothetical if like, you know,
if Brokeback Mountain was, you know, being made right now, it
wouldn't have the same impact. But would it be made with gay
actors or would it be made with straight actors?
You know, queer is out right now and Daniel Craig and the other
kid, they're straight. So that's just as, you know, So
maybe, maybe not. Maybe that doesn't matter.
So the question now is like, who can play who and when is it OK?
You know, Timothy Chalamet, that Armie Hammer film, Call Me by
Your Name, They're straight. So like, you know, the question
about diversity and like who can play who and that kind of stuff
is is there. But generally the landscape as
far as behind the scenes has shifted dramatically.
I don't know if I don't know if like there was an openly gay
actor playing a tough rancher. Like I don't know if it'd be big
deal if like Kevin Costner came out as gay on the Yellowstone
because that appeals to the Midwest.
I don't know if that still matters or something like that.
But generally where we know from my point of view as an actor, it
doesn't matter as much anymore. You may get casting directors
independently, maybe like only see you as like the LGBT actor,
but that's on them. That's different.
A lot of times castings, they, they would if it's an LGBT
character, they will say LGBT preferred, but they're not
locked into that. But it's it's become less and
less of a big deal. It really has, which is amazing,
which is, you know, wow, because 10 years ago I was like, even
though it's out to my friends, I was like, I am not going to be
out to the industry. You kidding me?
You know so. Yeah, Yeah.
We've come a long way and we we were at the end of our
interview. So we want to thank you.
I know thank you so much for sharing everything and answering
our questions. We really appreciate getting to
know you and hearing more about your memoir and just your career
in general. For our listeners at home that
want to maybe read your book or support you, how can they do
that? Sure.
So the the the the publication, the release date still being
wrestled around. I unfortunately do not have
that, but when I do, I will. I will tell you, I will tell the
ladies and maybe they can add it somewhere or maybe I can go
back. I don't know.
We'll see. But but if you want all the up
to date, you know, you know all the up to date 411 on it.
Just follow me on Instagram. I just do.
I do everything there, all the acting, all the painting, art
and obviously the book. So it's just at Sean Hemion and
I'll pop up and there I am. You can see my beautiful little
doggies, my little Boston's, you'll see my husband, my art,
whatever I'm up to. But again, the all the book info
will be there. So just you know, or, or my
website seanheavy.com if that's easier as well.
I am sure this will be in the show notes, right?
Yes, we will. We will link your website in the
show notes and if you're on our Instagram you will be tagged out
all that. Stuff and can.
Find everybody can find Sean on our Instagram as well.
So thank you again. We really appreciate it.
We're looking forward to your release date and all the good
things coming for you this. Year, Thank you.
So for those listening at home, thanks for tuning in.
And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus.
And get it up all over the place.
And with that, we've been big gay energy.
Thank you for listening. We'd really appreciate it if you
downloaded this episode and left us a review.
No matter how brief, your contribution will help us reach
a wider audience. We would love to hear from you
about everything and anything. You can find us on all social
media platforms at Big Gay Energy Pod or e-mail us at Big
Gay Energy pod@gmail.com. Join our Discord server to
connect with us and our friends who also love queer media.
The link to join is in our episode description.
Below, if you'd like to support us, check out our merch store on
big gayenergypod.com or join our Patreon for early access to
episodes, exclusive content, and so much more.
Until next time, hydrate from lesbian Jesus.
And get it up all over the place.