Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big agenda today,
Theora? Today we're back for another
episode of Why Do We Love This Series?
And today we'll be discussing Affair the series.
And it is an affair to remember. It's a long time coming, so this
will be, this will not be a scene by scene breakdown like
some of our other episodes. This will just be an overview of
the things we liked about the the series specifically.
I will say I at this point, I have read the novel now, so I
will interject a couple of things from the novel.
I'll let you know when I'm doing that.
So you can skip ahead if you don't want to be spoiled.
I think they're worth comparing because it's it's interesting.
I'm glad I read it, but we'll mostly be just talking about
things we like. And then at the end, we'll talk
about what our listeners liked about the show.
And so thank you to everybody that participated because I
forgot how good this show was until I started watching it.
And I was like, Oh yeah, this show was really, really good.
Like what a ride this was to watch it.
Sure was. And you know what?
If there's anything you can say about Affair, there is one thing
you cannot say that this show wasn't 1000% gay because.
Oh yeah. This show was gay even when the
characters. Didn't know it exactly for some
reason. It's amazing.
Well now that I've read the novel I know why.
So I feel like the you really needed the novel to understand
the playing in particular 'cause it's her story.
I'm glad I read the novel. I wish I read it before I
watched the show honestly. So is there a more back story?
At your in planes head, she's the protagonist.
If you're interested in watching us react to all of affair and
this was us watching it for the first time, no novels, no
nothing. Become a Patreon member because
it's all on there and it is entertaining and we're mostly
confused during the show. So if you want to watch that, go
watch that, yeah. Yeah, there's a few a few
episodes on YouTube, sorry, and the full season on Face Real.
Yeah, the full episodes, the full season and for Discord too,
like Harmony Secrets coming out soon or is in the works.
So like there's a lot of chatter over there.
So if you wanna follow Lock Me and Sonya's stuff, come on over
to Discord. There's a whole bunch of talk a
lot about them and Harmony Secret, which is their next
series, which is gonna be so, so good.
All right. So let's jump into why we love
the series. I think the best place to start
is the very bold cold open. Like the initial scene you get
for Affair. It's just Juan Viva and playing
5 seconds from fucking against a wall.
That's how you meet them. And we don't even know who these
people are. That's just how it starts.
I will say this is exactly how the book starts.
And so this was Chow. Chow wrote this.
And thank you, Chow, because truly, in this kind of show
where the characters are going to be separated for like 13
years and it's just pining and back and forth and stuff, this
was really necessary to set up everything and be like, don't
worry, they get together. It's going to take a minute, but
they're going to get together. So I think that this was really,
really important to put here because everything you need to
know is in the scene, like Juan Viva is a thirsty idiot.
Parentheses is affectionate and playing is torn between being a
thirsty idiot and holding on to the one brain cell leg pass
between them constantly, which is basically the scene where
she's like, you're married, what are we doing?
And the other thing is that that's intriguing and important
is that in the opening scene, Juan Viva brings up the bet they
made when they were kids. So it sets up a lot of things
where you're just like, what happened?
How did we get here? So honestly, Ciao, like, hats
off to you. You are a legend.
Like this was a great way to start this story in general.
But like in general, it's just very like intriguing way to
start this this series. Like you're already invested.
And I'm like, who are these people?
How do we get here? What is this bet?
Like? What the hell like?
Because we're in so full force in the clearness right from
right away, I think it makes it even more not frustrating when
you go back and you're like, you, you've been like this the
whole time. And you, how do you not see
that, where this is ending up? Like just yeah.
Yeah, so like when we were watching this the first time, we
were wondering how do they not know they're into each other?
Like how, 'cause they're so gay with each other the whole time
and it's like, how do you not know?
OK, at one point playing sees Juan in her bra, freaks out, but
then also the next episode undresses her and gets her in
the bathtub with her. That I don't screws.
Her in the bathtub. Even after reading the novel, I
still don't understand those back-to-back things, but I will
say like I understand them more now that I've read the novel,
which again is from Playing's point of view.
And like the show does read that way, that Playing is the main
character because that's usually how Chow writes novels.
It's 1 character and you're seeing everything from their
point of view, including like their thoughts.
So like their inner monologue, which is really important in
this story more than the others or her other novels, honestly,
because one of my frustrations with watching the show was like,
there's a lot of back and forth with Playing.
And I'm like, it's like her actions are not matching.
It's like there's a disconnect here.
But when you're in her head, it makes a lot more sense why she's
doing what she's doing. And I feel like, you know, that
was a sacrifice of like putting this on screen and you didn't
have voice overs. So like I I kind of get it now,
but I will say shout out to Patreon member on our reactions
at my under score peak who wrote hashtag justice for playing on
so many of our reactions. So 'cause I get it, 'cause I
really wish I read the novel before I watched the show
because really playing is just was just very frustrating to
watch because Wand Viva is more consistent with the affection
and then playing and goes back and forth a million times.
And it they end up hurting each other because they're in this
pattern of just like playing, giving it a little bit and then
going back and then giving it and going back, giving and going
back. And they're like, Oh my God,
like break the cycle 'cause this is getting like old real fast
kind of thing. But when in the novel explains
it a lot more so like when we first meet them in the when we
so we like, obviously we have the cold open and we're like,
they're adults and then we go back to when they're kids.
Where the story starts up is it's when playing first starts
having romantic feelings about Wan Viva and every the moment
that changed everything is the the bathtub scene you were
talking about. And they in the novel, they
bring up this bathtub scene, both of them, where that was
like the big turning point where they're like, why am I turned on
right now? Like that's basically what
happened in the bathtub scene. And then they spent a lot of
time being like, why do I feel like this?
So like, playing in her head describes what she's feeling as
Juan is strange. She's like, I feel strange.
Why do I feel strange and like I don't want her to know.
I feel strange because she's my best friend and we basically
like our siblings that grew up together.
Like basically they're like I think 2 weeks apart in age and
they were basically raised together.
So they're kind of like they were raised like family and
she's like I feel weird all of a sudden.
Why do I feel so weird towards her?
And I can't let her know I feel weird.
So that's why she's like get a boyfriend like please.
Like maybe the the weird feelings will go away and like
I, I don't know what's going on. So it's it's basically she's
having romantic feelings for the first time.
I didn't know what it was. And a similar thing happened to
Juan in that bathtub scene, but it clicked for Juan Viva a lot
faster. And she's like, oh, I'm
romantically into her. I get it now.
But like playing was like, I don't understand what this is.
This is scaring me. I can't think about this.
Which like valid and there's a point in the novel where
playing's like, I can't let her know, 'cause I could lose her.
She's like the only person I have.
So like, there's that dynamic always built into the best I'm
in love with my best friend thing.
We're like, if this goes wrong, I not only lose my love
interest, I lose my best friend like so I understand where she's
coming from there. It just it doesn't read like
that on screen all the time. So it was like it was really
hard to interpret that if you don't have playing's thoughts
where she's explaining this and truly playing is not a character
that has friends. She's kind of like Big Nog in a
way where she really doesn't have people to talk to.
So you don't get the exposition in the series where she's like
confiding in a friend because the friend is Juan Viva and she
can't have the conversation with her.
So like, that's what kind of that's where I had a had a
difficult time with the series because like playing's thoughts
were gone and she didn't have anybody to talk out loud to.
So like some of that stuff was just kind of like missing.
And in the novel, her and Juan Viva later on have conversations
about this bathtub scene where they kind of talk about it.
And so like they they get on the same page and like that wasn't
in the series. So like the next position never
happened. So I'm sorry if you were
watching our reaction story, like why are you guys hating on
playing? We weren't hating on playing.
It was just like it was. It was like the same pattern
over and over again with playing and like it got frustrating,
that's all. But.
Over outsiders to the relationship, we're seeing what
we're seeing and what we're seeing is a blank face from
playing like that's all you see and it's just like nothing like
no emotion. But it's that's the gay panics.
That's what's on the outside, no matter what's happening on the
inside. But there is, like you said,
there's nothing to give us the inside thoughts.
It really would have benefited from her being like a like
journaling her life or something to let us know anything that's
going on in her mind. Yeah, I understand.
Like they only had eight episodes, but her and Juan
having a conversation about the bathtub scene like in the book
would have been really good and helpful.
But I understand like they didn't have a lot of time.
They did a really good job sticking with the novel.
Honestly, everybody did a really good job.
Like it was a really well done show.
But like that conversation would be really helpful.
But I will say with playing, it's not that you don't know
she's into Wan Viva because like when nobody's looking, that's
when she like gives in and that there's a lot of times when
Wan's asleep and playing just staring at her and things like
that. So like you, you do get the
sense that like she definitely has feelings for Wan, but she's
just like fighting them a lot or just trying to be like, no,
that's not what this is. That's not what this is.
Like it can't be I'll lose my best friend.
Like which is understandable. Like it really is like that's
her person. And like imagine that you're
like suddenly I feel strange about them and I don't
understand why. And it's like, what the hell?
And also we see her lose the people that she thought were her
friends right in the beginning where we pick up.
Playing loses everybody. She loses her friends who were
like, not since she uses the word in the novel, sincere
friends were not sincere. They like talk shit behind her
back. Then her parents die.
And then she's in the custody of Juan, Viva's mom, who doesn't
even like her. So again, she's like, I thought
you cared about me, you raised me.
And now I find out behind my back you hate me.
And then she's like, OK, cool. All I have left is Juan.
And then we get to the scene where she's in Juan's bedroom
looking for something and finds that Juan hid all her
accomplishments. And she's like, who even are?
She's like, I have nobody. I have nobody that tells me the
truth, nobody that's sincere with me.
And that's when she leaves. So like you, I understand that
coming from playing. Why she was like, wow, my whole
life is a lie. Everybody I thought I could rely
on, I can't. So fuck it, I got to start over.
And she's a child at that point. Like, she's still a kid.
That's a lot. Who also hasn't had to really do
much for themselves either because her family's well off
she has multiple people taking care of her doesn't know how to
do these things because like when Juan's mom takes her in,
she's like anything you can do by yourself, you're going to
have to start doing it and Juan's like this fish don't know
how to do anything Don't worry, I'll do it for you.
So it's it's just there's a lot going on for her.
It's just we don't. Yeah, I wish we got to know
more. But that's why there is a book
and a novel like you're supposed to.
They complement each other. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
So yeah, let's just keep going on the playing train and why was
playing the way she is. OK, so I want to add another
comment we got from Patreon on one of our on episode 5.
Specifically, it was Ducksy wrote.
I think the frustration that most people feel with playing
back and forth is valid to a certain extent.
Yes, it's frustrating that we outwardly see Juan Juan's
constant throwing of her affection bounce off of playing
like it's nothing. But I think at this point in
time, most people forget that playing has always been this
way. Even more now after everything
she's been through, more people sympathize with Juan because
it's 13 years of intense yearning in an unwanted, an
unfulfilling marriage for the girl who left you that it takes
priority in most people's minds. And they forget playing 13 years
of literally living each day as if it's the last and sitting in
her trauma the entire time. And she was a child when she
left too, like she was a teenager.
So yeah, that's super valid. It's true.
I think this might be a good time to bring up something that
we've talked about during reaction episodes and it's the
difference between playing in Juan in regards to the fight or
flight response where Juan is very much fight, face things
head on and playing is flight. Like just don't face it.
Just if I can remove myself, maybe it won't affect me.
Like she leaves the the classroom when the friends are,
well she already left and then she overhears the friends.
Honestly, she does show fight in that moment because she does
stand up to them, but she's very, she sees them again later
and it's like run away, run away.
Yeah, we, we brought this up when we were reacting.
So like their instincts are polar opposites basically.
Like they're very much extreme fight versus flight.
And one is the much more obvious character.
Like you said, she's fight. So that's why she literally
never gave up on playing. Even after playing left, she
never gave up because she's in fight mode constantly.
It's why she spent 13 years keeping every single promise she
made to playing, like become a doctor, bike riding, marry this
guy. And she never stopped looking
for playing either. It's why she still didn't give
up even when the sibling things come up, which we'll talk about
that later. And then playing, it's worse
than the novel. Playing is flight.
So yeah, sorry. So playing is flight.
So basically she flees to preserve her friendship with
Juan. Like I mentioned earlier, she's
having these intense feelings for Juan.
And she's like, if I act in the feelings, it's going to change
things. So I'd rather just remove
myself. And she keeps distancing herself
from Juan, OK, Rather than confront it, she's like, we'll
just keep distancing so things don't change.
She leaves Juan's family. Why?
Because she doesn't want to be a burden to anybody.
So instead of confronting the situation, she just leaves when
she runs into it or ache again or whatever the the man she Eck,
she leaves him. And then when she's like, oh,
are we siblings immediately flight.
She's like, I can't look at you, I can't be around you anymore.
Leave. So playing keeps consistently
put. Like our Patreon member said,
playing has been like this the whole time.
She keeps putting distance between her and Juan on purpose
playing, whereas Juan did everything in her power to
eliminate the distance between them by fighting for this
relationship. And that's pretty consistent
over and over and over again until we get to the end of the
series. I mean in episode 2 playing
literally says I'm scared of facing problems.
I don't want to end up stressed like that.
Like, first of all, episode 2 is so much foreshadowing the entire
show. It's insane.
But we can get into that in a little bit.
So like, she's very open. She knows that she doesn't want
to face things. She likes to ignore it, just go
away or else. Like she knows it's going to
affect her. And she's like, if I can do
something so it doesn't affect me as much, which girl running
away like then you have 13 years of not knowing what's going on,
like. That that she avoids
confrontation is what you're saying.
Confrontation, basically that's not what she says, but like,
yes, that's. Mostly she doesn't want the.
Confrontation and and even when she gets back with Juan it's
this isn't necessarily fight or flight but playing messages Juan
when OK so let's back up Juan buys playing a new phone
because. When they're adults, yeah.
Yeah, when they're adults and playing, it's like it's too
nice. And then Juan tells her that
she's only allowed to text her anyway, that that's a whole
another thing we can talk about. But.
No, Juan. Playing says I love you over
text and get then gets upset that Juan doesn't immediately
text back in one second, which is ridiculous but love it.
It's adorable. Relatable to Juan ends up coming
to her room like where she is in the house and is like this isn't
something you say over text. You say it face to face so you
know it's real. So Juan associates this flight
response and a roundabout way of being like, you're not being
real with me, so just look at me in my face and talk to me so I
know what you're saying is real because I can't trust what I
can't see. Yeah, and I will say that Juan
also, like, understands Playing's flight nature, which
is why she's so fucking patient and keeps trying over and over.
And she's like, I know you like me, I'm just trying to get you
to admit it. But you're playing and playing
in voids confrontation. So she's like you got to push to
gain a little bit of ground and then like keep coming back.
She's just her persistence wears her down eventually.
I will say another thing I like about their dynamics
specifically is how they make decisions is really interesting.
So if we go back to when they're children, there's a scene where
plane's in her room and then Juan's mother comes in to be
like, who is that boy? I saw try to get him with Juan
basically and they're talking about Juan Viva and.
The mom says basically like Juan doesn't know how to choose
anything. She can't even make decisions on
her own. So she comes to playing.
Be like playing. You tell her to do it because
she listens to you. So basically like the only
person that Juan listens to is playing, OK, even as a child.
And Juan is so extreme in this mindset that she like literally
doesn't listen to herself. Like the only reason she pays
attention to Ick is because playing is like, go do it,
where's one? If you listen to her talk about
him, she's like, I don't even really like him.
She's like, I feel. Indifferent she was fighting
that the minute like she met him right No, like they.
She goes out on a date with him and playing there, and the
minute playing leaves, mom's like, I'm done with the date.
Like, I literally don't want to be there.
Like so she does things because playing tells her to, OK.
And so like, that is her decision making.
Mom's like, what do I do with my life?
What do you want me to be playing?
Be a doctor, OK. And she just defers all the
decision making to playing versus playing.
Who's the complete opposite. B let's herself be influenced by
everybody except what she wants, right?
Like playing people pleases to an extreme degree, while Juan
people pleases just to play. OK, so it's really interesting.
So like anytime like she like playing is like, yeah, I think I
this is what I want. Somebody will come in like
Juan's mother and be like, you don't want this.
And then playing's like, I don't want that.
Like she just goes with whatever people are telling her.
And that's what's, like, frustrating about why Juan gets
so frustrated. She's like, why can't you just
do what you want? Like why are you always letting
other people influence you constantly?
And it's like that causes a lot of problems with them because
playing is very flighty with how she makes decisions and she's
just easily influenced by other people.
It's interesting that it's like that because the way they grew
up, Juan's mom is the one always telling her that she's not good
enough. You would think that one would
be the one trying to find validation from people and
playing as parents with the most supportive parents ever.
Seriously, I and she's still like trying to make sure
everybody's happy. So it's just very interesting in
that way, especially with the nature versus nurture argument,
because her nurture was very nurturing and made sure like she
knew she was loved, she could do what she wanted, but it's just
that still something in her that she just wanted to make sure
that everyone's happy. Now it makes sense when she has
to live with Juan's mom and Juan's dad because those people
didn't like anything. So like but she was like this
before then. Yeah, In the novel, Juan
basically explains it like playing has a big ego and that
comes from like being wealthy and well off and things like
that. So she definitely is very a
confident person, but she's just easily influenced by other
people and what they think of her.
And they're like, this isn't the right thing to.
This isn't what you should be doing.
And playing will be like, yeah, OK.
Like, you're right versus Juan. Like, the only validation I need
is from you. So I literally do not care what
other people think. So you can see Juan, when she's
younger, like does not stand up for herself as much.
She just stands up for playing and just listens to playing.
And what I love is when we get to the end of it all, basically
like their situations completely shift.
So like personally, I think the 13 year separation, although 13
years is a really long fucking time, let us be clear.
I think they needed separation 'cause they were so codependent
that it was kind of like they couldn't fully grow.
So they were kind of like these extreme people, right?
And then they were apart. And then when they came back
together, their dynamic totally shifted, like it was an inverse.
And that's what they needed to like resolve all of this stuff.
So again, so like basically like Juan becomes much more confident
in her decision and makes her own decisions, kind of like
that's why you see her like standing up to her mother.
And apparently that started when playing left.
Like the day after playing left, she was like, fuck you mom.
And like that was like, and her mom was like, where did this
come from? And like Juan completely changed
and became the total opposite where she fought for things,
stood up for herself versus just like going with like she would
just like her mom when they were kids, her horrible mother would
like talk down to Juan in front of everybody and Juan would just
take it. But then when she loses playing,
it's like none of this. I'm not taking any of your shit.
Like she totally changes. And the same thing with playing,
like, playing instead of like, being very egotistical and like
all this kind of stuff, she kind of like, becomes more
empathetic. And there's a scene in the show
where Juan's like, you're not the old playing anymore.
Like the old playing when he kept fighting me and insisting
she was right, but you're just, like, agreeing with me now.
That's weird. And like, they kind of needed
that to, like, meet each other halfway, honestly, as adults.
The the time apart, they not only flipped like the responses,
but they flipped the scenarios too.
Because now, yeah, playing is the one living in poverty
basically and not having any like having to do things because
she needs to. And Juan is like becomes a
doctor, is set with money, doesn't have to worry about
things, can just start collecting things to give to
play when she eventually sees her again, like buying the
guitar and yeah, I know in the apartment.
It's like playing has the fall from grace and then Juan rises
into power. Like you're right, that's what I
mean. They're they're an inverse when
they meet again, like into so many different ways, like
absolutely, and that also will shift shifts their dynamic for
sure. They're very interesting.
They're like the. Psychology in this show though,
is very interesting. And it's really interesting.
Before we keep going on them though, can we go back to the
parents and just get the parents out of the way?
Why did you have to give us the best mother of all time, playing
mom only to take her away from us?
It's so mean and it's pretty early on in the show too.
It's so wrong 'cause it's like you're finally see a child being
so supported and the like. Even to one, the one was their
daughter. I love her.
She's so cute. Playing, I just, she just.
Feels better. So much that scene where Juan's
mom is putting her down and say why would telling playing?
Why would you want to be like her?
She there's nothing good about her basically And what playing's
mom is like. There is so many good things
about her. She does things better than
playing. They balance each other out.
There are things that they teach each other.
They're good for each other. But Juan has a lot of great
things that she's good at and the mom's just like.
I don't see it. That's not what she says, but
basically that. No, the way that Juan's mother
put Juan down in front of Playing's family was despicable
like that was. Saying that she was comfortable
to do that. Awful, She's defying.
Her bosses there by now doing this.
Wait a minute, like back up it. It doesn't make a lot of sense
for her to do this honestly, because like, her motivation is
that she thinks Juan is playing Dad's child, and she's upset
because she thinks that as his child, Juan should also be
raised as a Princess the way that playing is.
So like, her mother is jealous that Juan doesn't get all the
same advantages and privilege that playing does.
She's just the maid's daughter. So she's mad about that, but
then like to take it out on Juan and say Juan, you're useless.
Doesn't make any, but she should be.
Building her up, being like you can do anything no matter what
the world gives us. Or be like, hey, Juan, you're
our situation could be worse. Maybe take advantage of this
fancy school you're at like, you know what I mean?
Like instead of being like you're useless, Juan, like I'm
just saying that's in front of them.
It's not like playing parents for saying, oh, this girl just
hangs around. We don't care about her.
They cared about her. They treated her like a
daughter, right? So it's not like she didn't have
all this like no opportunities. She even if it ended up that
they were sisters, they were basically being treated as
sisters. They were being treated as
sisters. Yeah, But like, it doesn't make
sense to her to be jealous and then be like, well, my
daughter's useless. Well, if she's useless, why
would the father give her more stuff?
Like, wouldn't it be in your best interest to, like, talk up
your daughter? You know what I mean?
Like, this didn't make sense based on what her motivation
was. That's what the problem I have
with it. The only thing in my head I
could think is that maybe she liked playing more and she was
jealous that playing wasn't hers and that she didn't.
She thought that she got the short end.
If they were sisters, I don't know.
I don't know. I also, why wouldn't you like
Juan? Come on.
I love Juan. I love you, Juan Viva.
She was doing amazing at school all by herself, Yeah.
But she didn't tell anybody that.
That's the thing. She didn't tell anybody.
She downplayed all of her accomplishments because she
didn't want to be in. Cause like, again, here's the
mother, like putting her up against playing and being like,
my daughter sucks compared to you.
And Juan was like, I don't want to be in competition with
playing at all. So I'm just going to take myself
out of the equation. So there is nothing to compare
us to because Juan's always, like, I love when playing's
happy. And like, I'm not going to keep
compete with her or, like, make our parents compare us because
that's not what I want. We're good at different things.
So therefore I'll just downplay everything that I do so that
playing could just be on top. I'll be happy.
Everyone will be happy. So she didn't tell her mom that,
that she was actually really intelligent and, like, at the
top of her class. And nobody knew that because she
hid it. Yeah.
Yeah, since we're in the parents of it all, can we talk about
episode 2, especially that car ride where Juan's mom playing's
mom and play? Because this car ride I is
probably one of my favorite scenes just because there's so
much in it that literally tells you what's gonna happen in the
show. So again, Juan's mom adamant
that she doesn't see any good for her daughter in the future.
They're talking about like what she's going to be when she grows
up. And she's like, oh, it doesn't
matter what school she goes to or what she's going to do.
She'll just be some useless office worker.
First of all, what the hell Talk about justice for office
workers. You play a role on Friday like
everybody else. Wrong any?
Fucking time that. Someone's like, oh, they'll just
be this OK, well, what's wrong with being that?
Somebody has to do that. It makes sense, and also they're
probably better off than you. Being the bitter maid?
Yeah, probably. OK, but then Plang's mom also
mentions that Plang's dad has been through crises before and
always got through them. OK, well, we're going to be
foreshadowing that he might not always do that.
And that's when playing like, well, I don't like to face the,
I don't want to work for him. I don't like to face problems.
It's stress. I don't want to be stressed and
all that. And then so that's what we'll go
into it later. I know.
But Playing's mom brings up that, oh, she was hospitalized
for a week years ago, and Juan's mom had to be the one to take
care. Of the dad air quotes take.
Care of and the guilty look you see on Wand's mom's face.
I'm sure we got names for these people.
I don't remember. It's fine.
No, just yeah, yeah. OK, but you, you just see so
much in this scene. If you really pay attention of
what's And also because Playing's mom is just amazing,
you know that she's not gonna last.
We can't have nice things. We can't have nice parents.
You know, I'm pretty sure we did.
This in the reaction video too. As soon as we saw that they were
so sweet sort of playing. We're like.
Fucked, they're fucked, they're going down.
But yeah. So like, yeah, I was at this
point when I was watching the series and I was like mom's mom
and playing's dad, definitely. Like who?
Who's the affair? Like who's the affair really?
Like, is it playing? Yeah.
Is it the parents? Like, like who's the actual
affair here? Because.
That was a running thing. We're trying to figure out what
the hell the affair was. So let's talk about that.
Was there actually an affair that happened?
Before we do that, I have a question.
Sure, because Playing's mom was like always sticking up for Juan
and just loving the girls and saying that they're always good
for each other. Do you think that Playing's mom
knew the girls would end up together?
I don't know because playing was so like distant with her
feelings unless Juan and her were alone or Juan was asleep.
So like, I don't know, playing's are delayed.
I think just maybe seeing that they complement each other so
well that maybe she didn't know, but she's like, if that
happened, they would be really. Good for each other.
I don't think her mother would have cared if it came out that
they were together, but I don't know that she like knew or
suspected to be honest because playing was so cagey with her
actual feelings. So I don't know.
That's true, but I'm going to interrupt this video so we.
Can what I transitioned to earlier?
So we can bring you some shout outs for my Chaos Crew over on
Patreon. All right, so our chaos crew
members on the big gay ride or die tier and above whoo are Dana
W, Kate V, Angela Amix, Monzone, under score Multi, Natalia,
Danny, Cassie M, Jill L, Regina B and Monet F.
And our featured big gay supported members for this
episode are Gorgeous Beauty, Jenny C and Angel.
Thank you so much everyone for supporting us.
And as always, we really appreciate all of our chaos crew
members and also everybody who just supports us in any way
possible. Again, do all the things that we
said in the beginning of this episode.
Join the discord. Just share this episode.
It helps more than you will ever know because we just want to
share the joy of queer content. That is our mission.
We, we all love it. We need more of it.
It'll never be enough. And we need better
representation too. So that's what we're here to
talk about. And Speaking of talking about
it, let's try to figure out what you were transitioning to.
I don't remember what I said when you changed.
I'm so sorry. No, it's OK, I don't remember.
It was something about hold on dad dying or was it parents
dying? Was it it was something in the
future? It's fine.
We'll just move on to something else and maybe we'll get to it
eventually. Something I want to talk about
in the show is I like the use of the Gemini constellation.
So I before I read fair novel, I read the Pluto novel and in
Pluto, this is not a spoiler, but like Chow really sticks to
the themes of whatever it is she's writing about, which I
appreciate about her. So it was very like she stuck
with the Pluto metaphor, like really hammered that home.
So I like this also use of like this space kind of thing she had
going on. It wasn't as like harped on as
much as like, oh, I remember what I was talking about.
I just remembered because it has to do with us.
OK, forget about the Gemini compilation.
My question was, was what happened between Juan Viva and
playing an affair? So that was my question.
And what I want to bring up is that in the novel and in the
show, playing very playing brings up like, I don't want to
be an affair. Like that was a a thing that she
was really disgusted by. And so when she found out her
dad had an affair, that was like heartbreaking.
And then when we meet her when she's an adult and like, she's
like living on her own. And Juan, she really leaves the
hospital. Juan comes and gets her.
She's in this like weird relationship with this dude who
will not leave her alone, who made her an affair because he
already had a wife and a kid. And she's like, you didn't tell
me any of this. Now I'm an affair.
So like she was already like, why do people keep lying to me
and making me the other person in their relationship basically.
So then she gets into the situation with Juan where Juan
kind of does the same thing where she doesn't tell playing
what's actually going on. And she's just like evades all
the questions about Eric and her marriage and all that shit.
And then when plays like, so you're trying to make me an
affair and I don't want to be an affair.
Like so my question was, was this even an affair between them
when they actually like do get together?
I'm pretty sure she like literally broke up with him
right? You tell me.
Yeah. Like Juan broke up with Ike.
Well, because I know Eck and her were still married.
Like legally married and they were in the process of her being
like I want a divorce and he refused to sign the divorce
paper. Yeah, basically he refused, so
she broke up with him. It's not an affair.
I don't think this is an affair legally.
Legally it's an affair. Ethically and morally, it's not.
Right. He refused to accept their
situation. I agree.
That's I was like, this isn't the affair.
The affair is what happened with Juan FIFA's mom and planes dead.
That was the affair, honestly. That almost ruined the whole
show. Yes, that and Playing's
boyfriend or whatever. Cheating on her also an affair.
Yeah, so that was our conclusion during the reactions too.
But even you thinking about it. So there's no way that this is
an affair. They were not together.
They weren't even living together.
It was just because one party decided that he had power and
was not going to allow them to be.
Divorced exactly exactly. I agree.
I don't think this was actually a fair.
I understand why playing was upset like that.
All her feelings are valid because like on paper yes, but
like really? Juan kept being like we are not
together. I have done everything in my
power to break up with him and he won't let it go.
That's on him. Like it's not on me.
I didn't want to be here, right? She's like, why can't I just
live my life? I had this person holding me
back against my will. Like, how is that fair to me?
And it's really not. Juan holds a bit of jealousy
from for Big Nung because Big Nung actually got to run away on
her wedding day and Juan secretly wanted to do that.
Oh, no. Juan explicitly.
Explicitly married him in the hopes that playing would find
out and come to the wedding. And they have a conversation in
the novel where playing's like, OK, but like, that's insane.
What if I showed up? What were you gonna do, end the
wedding right then and there? And one's like, yeah, that was
my plan. Like, literally, she says that
that was her plan. Her play was to have playing
show up and then be like, bye. And like, leave with playing.
Like that was the reason that was very drastic.
Juan, Oh my God. And she's extreme like anyway,
but yeah, that was actually the plan that she had girls
committed. You can't can't fault her for
that. OK, so the Gemini constellation,
let's go back to that. OK, OK, I want to talk about
this because I think it's it's very interesting.
And like in in this in the in the story when Juan gets the
tattoo, which was just in the series, by the way.
And I really like this. She they have the conversation
about like what Gemini means to Juan and how it like represents
them and all that kind of stuff. But like I kind of want to talk
about like what is this consolation and how it kind of
goes? There's other reads to it other
than like what Juan explicitly says and like playing explicitly
saying in the show. So like, what is the Gemini
consolation? So it's a named after like a
Greek myth of the twins, Castor and Pollux.
OK, so like again, twins. So like who does this sound like
based on what the story? So just answer me, who does this
sound like based on the story of Castor and Pollux?
So they were twins with a shared life, Castor and Pollux.
They were separated when Castor was killed in battle and then
Pollux, the surviving brother decided to share his immortality
with his brother so they can always be together.
Who does? Who does that sound like to you?
At in the show, right? Mm.
Hmm. That's that's Juan.
Who's Juan? Oh, the person who gave up their
immortality. Yeah.
So Juan is Pollux and then Castor dies.
So they're forcing a separation. So that's plan, right.
OK. So to me they fit the Gemini
myth of all of that. That's the very brief summary
until they're until they're separated, right?
But then they're reunited, OK. And then playing in wand
completely change. And they kind of to me, I was
like, OK, they don't fit the Gemini myth anymore.
So they got me thinking, what's another common myth that
involves twins? And that's twin flames.
So I was trying to think about that.
I'm like, oh, maybe they're more like twin flames as adults.
And this is Hindu mythology. So it's about the God, the gods,
Shiva and Shakti. And basically what twin flames
are is they're thought to be two distinct souls that are
nevertheless bound together by a shared origin and destiny.
So like one I'm playing four and two weeks apart, grew up
together and their destiny was like to be together forever
basically. And the twin flame relationship
is characterized by intensity, depth, and a profound sense of
recognition and familiarity. It is that as if the two halves
of the same hole have been separated and are now drawn
irresistibly back together in order to achieve a higher state
of being. So like I think that they are
the Gemini and then they become the twin flames later on.
And you said Shiva and. Shiva and Shakti are the gods.
I don't know what I'm about to know.
OK. You don't know that because I'm
like, does this mean that playing in Juan or going to end
up having a kid later that they cut the face off and place it
with an elephant? That's the Ganesh God.
There's a whole story. I don't think so.
But anyway, I just thought that they they fit these like they
fit into mythological tropes, the two of them, which I thought
was really, really interesting. You know what?
Chow's brain is very interesting.
For sure. And Tara, like again, sticks
with her themes and stuff, which is really, really interesting.
Speaking of things that aren't interesting, but we should
probably just get out of the way, Let's talk about Ick for a
bit. But I don't like him.
I guess what we. Crazy.
What are? Your thoughts on him?
He's better on the show, I'll give you that.
I'll give him that. Oh my God, whenever you say
something's better in the show, it's never a good thing.
He's more likable in the show, I'll say that.
Well, I still don't like him, so that's.
Not that's fair. I mean he is delusional with the
fact that he will not let them get divorced and then to show up
with a gun. That was insane.
He needs to be committed. That was insane.
Insane. All right, I I have thoughts
about him, like actual thoughts other than I wish he was gone.
So I think with him like he was a lot like playing in a lot of
ways because all he had in his life that was good was blonde.
If you think about it. Like they did give him a back
story in in the show where his family was a shit show that he
couldn't escape, right? They treated him like trash.
They're just like Juan. They're like, you're not good
enough. We don't know if we want to give
you the family company because we don't think you're smart
enough for it. Like, is that not Juan's family
dynamic? Like.
He's kind of like Juan in that situation.
And then he finds Juan Viva, who he like clutches.
He like basically latches onto forever because she's like
escapism from this horrible home life that he has.
And I think that's why it was so hard for him to let Juan go
because I don't think he knew who he was without her because
or he felt like he had nothing, you know, because what the hell
was his life? He was like trying to be the
good son in a family that didn't show they actually gave a shit
about him. They were all about reputation
and like the company and he was a tool for them to maintain
their status or whatever the hell.
But they like never saw him as a person or seemed to care about
him. Remember, like when he was
little and he was like, mom, can I have a guitar?
I want to play music? And they're like, she like
yelled at him as a child and left him crying in a mall.
Like that was his life. So.
That child actor. Oh my gosh.
You know so but the. OK, that's fair.
You know, but like with with him, the ultimate irony is that
like he was unwilling to let go of Juan the same way Juan was
unwilling to let go of playing. So he in that regard, he's
actually pretty similar to Juan Viva the way Juan like no matter
how much rejection was faced at her, she's like no playing.
He did the same thing. He's like, I don't care how much
you reject me, Juan. So like.
Bitch would have pulled a gun on anybody who tried to take
playing too, so you know. One absolutely would have shot a
bitch. What was smile on her face who
tried to take playing from her? You don't think that if she
caught playing an ache at loan in the apartment, she would have
tried to shoot him because she definitely.
I will be honest, I did forget about the back story part and
that is quite important because it does show you right.
How to say? That.
Dishumanize him. Yeah.
And that was in the series only they humanized him in the show.
They did not. I mean, in the novel Chao was
like, he's the man that can't let it go.
And that was where his character ended.
But in the context of the series, like he again is like,
he acts like Juan a lot where he's very unwilling to let
things go. OK.
I want to talk about one of my favorite scenes.
Though. I thought again, I forgot how
good the show is and how funny it was in certain aspects.
And one of my favorite scenes is when playing convinces Juan to
go on that like dessert date with Eek when they're younger.
And this is the the scene where like Juan's like, OK, I think
she's jealous. Let me like flirt with him to
make her jealous. And it works.
And playing's like, you don't need me for this anymore.
And she like, leaves. And then three seconds after
playing leaves, Juan literally runs after her and she's like,
we're done now. I'm full, like, I don't want to
be here. And they're in the mall and they
start bantering for some reason. And then and then Juan's like,
well, I love you. And then playing's like, no, you
don't. And Juan's like, I will
literally shout it in the middle of this mall.
And playing's like, no, you won't.
And Juan's like, OK, and starts, like, shouting it and then
playing like, like, tackle on people and be like, can you stop
now? Let's leave.
You're embarrassing. But I just love that, like, they
try to challenge each other. And it's like, why would you try
to challenge Juan? Like, she would never back down
from a challenge. She's like, I will absolutely
yell this in the middle of a crowded mall.
I don't care. It's so.
Funny. Yeah, they do have a great
dynamic with the with the buying the phone thing.
That was so funny. Like 1 was fully serious, like
you're only allowed to talk to me.
I mean, obviously she's not that controlling, but playing no like
takes this as the joke that it is and is like, you know, I have
a life that's not you. I have to work.
So first of all, her life is just work.
That's not why. Which granted, yes.
That that is what it is. But then like why he's so upset
by this and looks like what? But I mean it's a joke.
But she is thinking that she's like but but where you work
right now. I don't want you.
I I don't want to. This is not allowed to text this
number specifically. Multiple thing is like, OK,
well, why did she buy her the phone?
She's like, I bought you the phone so that I can get in
contact with you so you don't run away and disappear on me
again. So like, here's a reliable cell
phone so I know that you're not ghosting me and running away
because like Juan is so traumatized by playing running
away that like dictates a lot of her actions.
When they get back together, she's like, I'm afraid you're
going to flee again. Girl still wakes up at 4:00 AM
every. Day we will get to her trauma in
a minute yes. So then that's why she gets in
the phone and then when she's saying oh it's so you can only
text me. She's serious where she's like I
want what what she's saying by that is like I want you to pay
more attention to me. That's basically what she's
saying and the plane's like no, I'm not going to give you more
attention because you got me this phone and then play bond's
like what the fuck man, that's what she's mad she wants she
wants playing's attention. That's really what it is.
But that's playing technically challenged her there and she
won. Again, very different.
Her personality didn't inverse, right?
Juan is like didn't challenge her back.
She just got sad and internal and just like kind of walked
away from it, which is young Juan would challenge her right
back. Right?
There it is again. All right.
Do you want to do Juan's PTSD? The 4:00 AM thing.
Sure, all right so this poor girl is not traumatized because
she went to sleep with her best friend still being around and
then she wakes up to her being gone and a letter that tells her
what time she left. So now she is just plagued with
having involuntarily needing to wake up at 4:00 AM every day
like this. I wonder if she's ever gotten
enough sleep because that's that's not good.
Yeah, so in the novel, Juan explains why she wakes up at
4:00 AM, like a little bit more in depth.
So if you notice between the two of them, Juan minus the PTSD,
before we get to the PTSD, Juan is like the early bird and then
playing sleeps to noon. That's kind of like their
dynamic. So like playing the night owl
and then Juan is the early bird naturally, then this thing
happens where playing left at 4:00 AM, wrote the letter, left
the letter, and then Juan explains in the novel, I woke up
at 5:30 in the morning, I didn't see you.
Then I took a shower. I came out, I noticed your
guitar was missing and then Juan like ran for like 2 miles trying
to find playing at like 6:00 in the morning.
And the reason she wakes up at 4:00 AM is she's still so
guilty. She's like, if I she feels
guilty that she slept through it, she's like, if I had woken
up at 4, AMI would have caught you and then you wouldn't have
left. So it's that fear of playing
leaving that wakes her up at 4:00 AM.
So she doesn't miss playing running away.
That's why she gets triggered at 4:00 AM.
She felt guilty about sleeping girls.
Yes it's horrible. Like this is legitimate PTSD
like that Vaughn has. Like legitimate.
It's not related to the 4:00 AM thing, but like playing as
parents for a lot, basically her parents because she didn't have
parents that loved her so she lost them just like playing lost
them. And now playing is the only one
left. So add that to like, she's like,
I really got to be there, that she's all I have.
Well, it's like that's why I like Chow wrote it to be like
Juan didn't smile again after playing like that was for
happiness or happiness is not gone.
And basically Juan just became this like self-sufficient
person. She got a scholarship to go to
school. She's like fuck my parents.
She basically told her parents to fuck off the next day because
she's like, this is your fault because you guys are assholes.
She heard it, she left and she like never forgave them for
that. And she just like, yeah, like
was very self-sufficient and the only person that really
supported her was eek, really. He was there and she never fully
appreciated the fact he was there until after his accident.
Later, like his the gunshot thing when she's reflecting with
him, that's when it kind of came together that he really did was
like her friend through all of that shit.
And he really did support her in the way that she would have
supported playing. Where were this reversed?
So, yeah, Juan just like flipped the switch and was like, that
was it. So I thought it was really poet.
And also like, throughout the novel, too, there's other things
that happen to Juan. And she's like, it's weird.
It happened at 4:00 AM, too. Like when she's training to be a
doctor, she's like, the first patient I ever lost died in the
operating room at 4:00 AM. She's like, it was really weird
that that happened. I have a theory that that was
Song, but we'll get to that later.
I think it's OK. It's not confirmed, but I think
that's what happened. That doesn't go with our first
theory if you are, but anyway. No 'cause like we'll get into
Big dog later, but like, I think that's what happened.
So like all these things keep happening to Juan at 4:00 AM.
So I love the poetry of it to be like what heals ultimately heals
her PTSD is when her and like playing finally get together and
they like make memories of them, like being one and coming
together like literally at 4:00 AM.
And so I love that that's the healing process was like playing
left and then playing they became each others at like 4:00
AM and like that closes the loop kind of thing and helps her with
the PTSD. And then again we see that
relapse when playing leaves again and like wands back in the
pattern of the PTSD. Like it just I feel so bad for
her. That's a lot.
That's. She's reliving that trauma every
single day. It's not something that like
comes around every once in a while that like you have to be
triggered like 4:00 AM. Happens every single day.
And but to be fair to playing, like playing is living in
squalor every single day. And there's a constant reminder
that like, this is my life now every single day.
So like, yeah, they both like went through it for the 13
years, but I think ultimately they became stronger people.
And so that when they met, they were able to, like, be on equal
footing with each other where they weren't before, right.
Because Juan was hiding things and then playing was delusional
a bit, you know, like, it just, it didn't work.
And there was a power imbalance because of their social status
and because all that changed it just I think it was good for
them to be separated so they could grow despite the trauma
and that made them stronger for it.
Granted 13 years is a long fucking time and they really
went through it, but they were stronger people and a better
couple because of it honestly. True.
OK, one more thing. We'll end this with Big Nog, but
one more thing I want to bring up is playing song.
Not song. The person, the actual music
that she made playing song. Wait, so now I'll just let you
go. Go ahead.
All right, I just had a rant. So I like the song because it's,
again, it's it's one of those things like it's a through line
throughout the show, throughout the the story.
Chow likes doing that. And what we've talked about a
lot and what we see a lot in the show is Juan keeping all these
promises to playing. But like, this was a promise
that playing made Juan write me a song.
And it comes out of episode 3 and Juan's like, hey, write me a
song that's just for me and playing.
And I love this scene because playing isn't sure she can
because she's like, I've never written a song about a friend.
It's like OK, playing. And Juan's like, well, you know,
don't think of she's like, don't think about that.
Don't think about labels. She's like, just write what you
feel, OK? And she says if it's love, say
it's love. OK, So what's happening here is
that Juan, when they were younger and once Juan came to
the realization of what she was feeling was romantic towards
playing, basically she admits in the novel she's like, I did
flirt with you when we were younger because I wasn't sure if
this was one sided. And then you would react to me
and I was like, OK, this isn't 1 sided.
So like at this stage when they're having this
conversation, Juan knows the feelings aren't one sided, but
she understands Playing's pattern of behavior and
understands that playing is scared.
So she's trying to, by asking for the song, she's trying to
coax playing into admitting her feelings without admitting them.
OK. Because Juan needs validation,
right? She's like, listen, I just need
confirmation, OK, that this is OK.
And in the scene when Juan's asking her this, like playing,
kudos to Sonia because playing does a ton of micro expressions
in the scene to indicate that, like, the feelings are mutual.
And Juan is like 2 two feet away from her face.
And she's like, yeah, I see all this.
Yeah, that's what I thought. So that Juan's like, OK, hey,
feelings are happening. So she like, takes Playing's
face and, like, forces eye contact and tells her, fine, I
will not push you on this, but promise me you'll you'll write
it one day, right? And then playing's like, OK, so
I'll say something else that I found out in the novel that was
really cute. So playing in Thai apparently
needs music and the way she got her nickname.
Was apparently when she was a baby she would cry all the time
and the only way she would stop crying is when her dad would
play music so she he nicknamed her playing.
So what I love about this write me a song like this is how
playing can express herself. She's one of those like artists
who like isn't great with words, but like she can express it
through the music and the song she started playing at the piano
before Juan Viva comes and asks her for the song becomes Juan
song. But like she was sitting in her
feelings for Juan and then created this new song.
So it's like, again, it's her outlet to express how she feels
without saying it. So Juan who knows her really
well is like, OK, since you can't tell me, show me through
music basically, and I'll pick up on it.
And when I find interesting is like OK in this moment.
Like playing does start writing the song when they're kids and
because she has Juan Viva in her life and she stops writing it
when they're separated. So like the muse for all of this
is Juan. So she writes it when she has
Juan. She doesn't write it when she
doesn't have one. Then when they're reunited, she
starts writing it again because the it's because the feelings
are there without Juan. The feelings are not there.
Whatever whatsoever. And I love, I love, love, love.
When they are reunited later and Juan asks about the song and
she's like, hey, can I hear it? And Juan says, I've been waiting
13 years to hear it. And I love this line because
what Juan is really telling playing is she's been waiting 13
years for playing to tell Juan Viva how she feels because
that's why she asked her to write the song.
So it indicating as if we didn't know that like Juan's feelings
haven't changed, but she's like playing, I've been waiting 13
years for you to tell me you love me.
That's basically what she's saying in this in this scene.
And I do love how this plays the full circle thing with the song
is when like in the series where playing is like playing it
professionally and like Juan is there.
And that's when we get like the proposal and it's just it's
really cute because it like kind of like the ultimate way of
telling me how you feel started there.
And it ended with a let's get married thing, which is really,
really sweet. That is really cute.
That's really cute. But didn't she not even get to
hear first? Didn't playing play it for the
hotel? I think she tried it out with
the hotel because it didn't have lyrics yet.
That was the thing she had like the melody but not the lyrics.
OK, that's true. Yeah, so the song wasn't fully
finished until the very end. I I'm sure Juan Viva heard it
before because like this is different from the book where
like Juan has heard the song before and like this is the
first time playing was playing it professionally, like the full
song. And it will say the title of the
song is called your song. And I will bring this up when we
talk about Pluto because your song by playing is a song that I
and May bond over, which is really cute.
That's adorable. I know it's so cute, something
that wasn't cute, but that was weird.
Why did these two have an obsession with bras?
Can we just do that? Why were they obsessed with
bras, these two? Yeah, that was a lot of
conversations. Were they obsessed with bras?
Because they were just always thinking about each other in.
Bras Like why did playing have to buy Juan Viva a new bra and
then put it on Juan Viva herself in a platonic way?
Oh well. Because it wasn't platonic way
and there was nothing straight about that.
No, it was why like, Oh my God, can we just talk about playing
child playing like young playing how she already mastered like
the one handed removing of the bra, like she's already smooth
as fuck with taking off other women's bras and she's like,
this is platonic. I'm like girl, what?
Where'd you learn that playing? You're taking it off of another
person. What I can?
Think of right now is that they like share a bed and she just
like is bored in the middle of the night and just like
practices it like bras and like and Juan just is a very heavy
sleeper. First of all, you guys don't
need to be sleeping in her bras. That's fine not to do that.
Anyway, they had a bra obsession.
They have a boob obsession in the in the novel.
I won't get into that. But anyway, they were obsessed
with bras and it was really funny to watch them keep doing
this and be like, we're friends. I'm like, are you?
This was insane. Yeah, especially because she
freaks out seeing her in the bra.
I don't get that. And then in the next scene they
take your bra off. Like what are you doing playing?
It seems like that scene was a little out of character in
general because they're very. Close right?
Why would she freak freak out? They've taken baths together as
children, so I don't know if the.
Bath is the reason why things start clicking for both of them,
mainly for one. But like it changes then that
scene doesn't make sense because she would have been more
comfortable seeing that than being in the bath.
OK, but the thing that, OK, here's the thing about the
bathtub. We'll just get into this, the
thing that changes everything. So like, why are they in the
bathtub? Juan had a long day or whatever
and playing's like, I'll give you a massage.
So they come in the bathtub and then playing, massaging Juan and
Juan makes noises and it's the noises that do it for playing.
And she's like, what is this noise she's making?
And like, and Juan later we find out like from Juan Viva, she's
like, I can feel your heart racing against my back.
So I knew you were having feelings.
So like it clicks for both of them in this scene.
And playing literally is up all night replaying Juan's noises in
her mind and could not sleep. And yeah, she was that was the
term where she said what is happening to me?
Like, why can't I get this noise out of my head?
And then she's like, Juan, never make that noise again.
So then Juan obviously teases playing, but like, it's the
wands. I like that noise.
And playing was like Oh my God, why can't I sleep?
That's hilarious. That's what it was.
That's amazing. OK, Speaking of amazing, shout
out to our Patreon member Pooja, who wrote on episode 8.
Our reaction? I only watched this episode for
Big Nog, so let's talk about Big Nog 'cause I was waiting.
Fiora has been waiting for. I was waiting for this British
to show up and cause drama and she did and I love her for that.
Just a little sad it's not 5 but I mean I get it.
Still sad. What thoughts do you have about
Big Nong in the show? I mean, she's big nong.
Big nong is big nong no matter who plays big nong.
So it's just it's interesting to see the dynamic between Juan and
her now that it's not. Big Nong's show.
Ah, you're muted. I would say that this was how we
get Big Nong in the show is the most big Nong plot of all times
because how do we get her? Big Nong texts Juan out of
nowhere and it's like, hey, I'm going to be in Bangkok tomorrow,
Meet me somewhere like that is after going through blank with
like a fine tooth comb. That is literally how this bitch
operates and how she texts people out of nowhere and she's
like, meet me when it's convenient.
For me. At least the shows are
consistent with the characters. Such a big thing to do.
I was like, the book is even funnier.
How this goes. It's Oh my God, the book is so
much funnier. OK, so let's get into let's get
it. Let's get into big Nong and how
we kind of get to this thing because why is she here?
Basically like Juan and playing or having a jealousy contest
with each other that's revolving around men that work with
playing. So in order to really show
playing what jealousy is, Juan's like, hey, why don't I bring the
hottest woman in the world to come meet me whom Plain thinks
is my ex, even though that's not what's happening here.
And once Playing is with Big Nung, she understands what
jealousy is. She's like, I understand now I
understand. And the conversation with Big
Nung is so fucking funny, 'cause plain's like, well, she's like,
well, Juan. She said.
Something where she's like, I can't believe want like Juan,
you're here this and that. And then she's like, well,
you're just with somebody. And then big nugs like I'm not
just somebody bitch. I'm big nug.
It's she like gets up off the couch and like.
I'm not anybody. I'm big nug.
Big nung bitch. She's like, this is ML
Sippicorn, like she's royalty anyway, so fucking funny.
But how we get her in the novel is really, really funny.
So And in the novel, Juan and playing do have the conversation
about Big Nung because like they have a pet basically.
So let's back up to how Juan and Big Nung meet because it's not
what I thought. So Juan's explaining this to
playing one night. And she's like, well, I met her
at the hospital. She was there for a family
member two years ago, which makes me think Song and Juan was
a doctor there at the time and like met her and she's like, she
was real because she explains Big Nun was like real elegant
and graceful and wealthy looking.
So like Big Nun was still in the palace and had money at that
time. And she meets her and then she's
like, then I met her two years after and the Isle of Lesbos,
she's painting caricatures. I like met her on the street,
okay? She's gonna ask like, do we know
the timeline? Could have been the grand ma'am,
but no, no, she's. Painting song.
This is this is song. And then she's like, I met her
there. You like overcharged me for
picture. I'm like, anyway, it was the
whole thing. It's like, anyway, no one was so
funny and like she said. So we got to talking and then
basically like hooked up that night, which big Nog's like you
remind me of my sister Sam. And then they hook up later and
like, no, what is wrong with you?
And apparently Nung's like reasoning was like, well, my
sister has a girlfriend. So like Sam was with Mon at the
time and she's like, and she's happy.
So like, I'm going to try it. That was the rationale and Juan
Viva, this rationale was like, well, I don't feel anything
towards men, so maybe it's not playing.
I'm into women. So then that's why they hook up
and then at the end they're like.
OK, so the argument can be made that this happens when the gap
aisle Lesbos happens. Oh yeah, I think so.
I think it's around that time. It's before little Nung shows up
for sure. But like, yeah, so they meet
when she's in her starving artist phase, hook up, and then
they're like, yeah, this isn't for me.
Then when we get to the affair scene, Nung is back, I guess,
left the Isle of Luzzbos and is back in Bangkok for some reason.
So I wonder this is when the Grand Man stuff is happening.
She comes back and then it's like, hey, meet me.
And then she's like, why don't we meet?
This is Nung. She's like, why don't we meet at
the coffee shop at the hospital so you can you can treat me.
Juan's like, aren't you rich? And Nung's and Nung's like, not
anymore, bitch, you're the doctor.
You buy me shit. And basically she just meets up
with Juan to get free stuff. This is the most big Nung thing
ever. And Juan's like, I guess I'll
meet up with you. Sure.
And so they meet up. I guess I'll buy you shit I.
Guess and basically, yeah, basically wands like I guess
I'll just like keep buying her shit to make playing jealous.
And then Nung figures this out at some point.
So they like go to the coffee shop, meet up or whatever.
Then they end up like at a restaurant.
Nung picks it. She picks this high end
restaurant. She's like, this is on yuan,
buys a bunch of champagne, everything on the menu like Nung
was like. Oh my gosh, oh she's the worst.
It feels respect for people though.
She's such a moocher and this is her starving artist phase.
So she's like, Juan, you're going to, I'm doing you a favor,
so therefore you're going to buy me all the stuff.
So Oh my God, that's like basically they're they're at, I
don't even know dinner what this was.
And playing is blowing up Juan's phone and Juan is not answering.
So playing does not show up. And see, see Big Nung at the
restaurant. Basically, she blows up Juan's
phone and then Juan comes home and she's drunk and Big Nung
takes her home. And then playing meets Big Nung
and it's just like, who are you? And like, Oh my God.
And like Nung is just being Nung the whole time, like baiting,
playing, because she has the conversation with mom and she's
like, you're trying to make your partner jealous, right?
And then Big Nung asks, is it a man or a woman?
Because the reaction's going to be different depending on the
gender. And it's really funny.
And then she's like, it's a woman.
She's like, OK, cool. So she's going to be threatened
by me. Got it.
So then Nung knows how to go into this and be like, I'm
threatening as fuck. You better.
You better love this one right here.
And then they have the conversation where Juan's like,
well, she's going to be jealous because you're my ex and nuns.
Nung's like, I'm not your ex. And Juan's like, I know that,
but she thinks you are because like, they're just like, there's
like a mutual hookup where they're like, whatever, we'll
stay friends. And I'm pretty sure this is the
incident where Nung's like, you owe me Juan Viva.
And then when we get into blank like later, they do the reverse
thing where Nung's like, Juan, I need you to make my girlfriend
jealous. And in the novel wands in the
car with little with playing and she's like, you're going to get
me in trouble, though, and Nung's like you fucking owe me.
I did it for you. I'm pretty sure.
Like that's how we get that scene because like it starts
here and Nung's like you owe me and it's really cute because
this is the scene where it's like it Wan vivas the point of
view character. So then like then obviously like
what happens in the show plays out.
We're playing a super jealous and she's like, Oh yeah, well,
I'm going to do the one thing Nung can't do and like, have sex
with you basically. And then in Juan's brain, she's
like, it was worth every penny. Nung was so expensive.
This. Favorite Gosh so expensive girl
fucking one meal you don't get the whole damn venue.
But is that not the most big numb thing ever?
Or she's always like. I'll go out with like.
For. Food and then at the table with
all the plays around. Well, I guess we can't finish
all of this. I'll take it together.
Yeah, it was the most big numb thing I've ever fucking seen.
Ever. I'm like, something never
changed. I'm glad she never changes
something. That everybody is good at.
Since all these books are produced by different studios,
they are very accurate. Someone is definitely watching
each one to like, not copy it, but make sure that it can go in
the same universe. Because the fact that we're able
to piece these with between the books and then the shows and put
it in their timelines is really nice.
I would say of the Chow novels that I've read, gap blank affair
link the closest together. Yeah, because like Juan actually
knew Nong like they actually knew each other.
Whereas like Pluto is connected through playing, but it's not
because I may know playing. It's like she's a policy like
mentioned exactly and then like. Like these are kind of like spin
offs. Yeah.
So we're kind of getting further and further away from like the
core group and like us is connected because Pam is Big
Nung's dentist. So like there really is no
friendship thing there. Oh.
My gosh, wait a minute, she has to deal with Big Nung as a
client? Yeah, I, I don't really remember
it being in the novel, but like, or it doesn't, it didn't stick
with my brain, but like, that's how it's connected.
So like. Yeah, they're not.
They're connected, but not really.
Connected they're in the same universe and people kind of know
each other through things but like of of people who are like
super connected like obviously Sam and Dong are sisters and
then Juan actually knows big Nung pretty well and they stay
friends so like having her show up is just I loved it that was
so funny It was great and like using big Nung to make like
jealous was great because like she and threatening person she's
royalty She's she's gorgeous like she's we'll take you down
with her words like big Nog, she's big Nog she's the best so
yeah that was great but overall like I really liked affair.
It was it was hard to watch the first time just because I felt
like they were just trapped in this pet this cycle and I was
like, something's kind of breaking a cycle.
But I get it. Like I think it overall, like
when you're really looking at it and having the context from the
novel really did help. I really wish I read it before I
watched it because it really does add a lot.
I think they did a lot in eight episodes.
I think that Sonia and Luck me have incredible chemistry with
each other and there's just they don't go for it.
Like they really nailed the yearning.
I will give them that. Like in their their sex scene,
they really, really nailed the I've been pining for you for 13
years. Like they nailed it like in
every way because like it was very desperate and just like the
way they played it, which is 13 years of pent up sexual
frustration. Like they really nailed it in
that scene because like that's intense yearning is all I'm
saying. Great job.
Guys. OK.
All right. Anything else you'd like to say
about Affair? I I don't think so.
All right, so we'll just leave off with a couple of listener
comments we got and they both kind of say the same thing.
So if we have Hallis from Tiktok who says why do you like affair?
Why do you love it? Because it's LMSY and it's like,
yes, those two are fucking awesome.
And then on YouTube we have Vera Lang 399 who wrote First and
foremost LMS wise Acting. Agreed #2 The story, I've
watched this countless times and I'm not done yet.
It's like, yeah, it's very rewatchable.
It's in a it's really a good story and I really enjoy it.
There's a lot of depth to it and it's a pretty, I like shouted
really good at writing the story.
It's it's got good like bookending and a lot into it
that I really liked as a novel. I thought it worked really,
really well and the show stuck to the novel despite being only
8 episodes. It did a good job of like
sticking with it and it made some changes that like humanized
certain characters that didn't have back stories or they made
certain changes to like further the story along that I thought
we're good. It did not like that they're bad
choices, but like that worked for the adaptation.
So overall. For this show, with eight
episodes, they definitely use their time.
Well, correct, they definitely did.
Like every single second counted.
Yep, I zip has a lot in. Nothing was too slow.
No, it was paced very nicely as a series.
Because if it was ever slow, something was going to happen at
the end of that. Scene.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I do love.
I've watched this countless times and I'm not done yet.
It's like nor. Should you be nor should you be
like keep watching it's a great show and I'm very much looking
forward to like their future projects together.
Harmony secrets going to be another one where it's like am I
under am I not under her? So they they do that really well
so like you know what bring on it's going to be freaking
fantastic. Let us know if you're going to
be watching that. Yeah, also.
Let us know. I, I, I figured out a random
question to ask you for this episode.
Do it. If you could change one small
thing in this show, what would you change and how would that
affect the entire story? So like, what's the butterfly
effect that you would create for this show?
More big nung. If you would, you would have
introduced big nung from maybe like maybe they would have
known. Kids, listen, I want, I want the
big Nung scene from the book where you have more from Juan
and just big Nung being absolutely ridiculous.
And that scene where she's like it's on her credit card, like
give me more food. I want that scene of just her
being herself because like, she's fucking hilarious.
That's, I mean, that's fair. Yes, that's what I want.
And the butterfly effect is that it would be hilarious.
The butterfly effect is that, well, no, getting that scene
doesn't change. Anything.
And I want the end and the end just in their lives again.
I want when they're leaving and playing is like pulling Juan
Vivo away and like Juan Vivo looks back and big nun's like
you owe me. I want that.
So then it sets up what happens to blank.
Yeah, that's what. I want that would have been
great to see actually. You owe me one.
Just yelling in the middle of a restaurant and people are just
like, what the hell is happening?
They're so obnoxious. I mean, if it's from the book,
in the book it happened in front of like playing in Juan's
apartment complex, but still. Because like big Nun drops her
off and then playing is like pacing outside because she's
like, what the fuck is Juan? And then like this goddess of a
woman comes out carrying Juan and plays like, I can carry her,
I got it. And big nun's like, you're so
tiny. What do you mean?
Pretty sure you can't carry her? Like it's really funny.
Their bantering is hilarious in the book.
I'm picturing playing, showing up at the restaurant and then
dragging Juan out. And they know he's like, wait,
did you pay the check? Juan says yes.
And she's like, all right, cool. I was the one after she
literally just paid the check. But.
You have a flying fuck. That's basically what happened
in the show where she's like drinks around you, Juan.
Thanks anyway. So that was the fear of the
series. Hope you guys enjoyed this.
We'll be back next time to talk about who knows what.
Let us know what you want to hear from us.
We'll we'll do it. How about that?
And until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus.
And get it up all over the place.
Bye. Bye.
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