Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
So welcome back everyone. Today we have a very very
special guests that were super excited to get to know.
Please welcome Lee, Robinson, aka the Dapper and heartwarming
birdie heart from the new illega, their own Series on
Amazon Prime. Kylie thanks for joining us
today. Yay, get the be here y'all.
Our first question is very important.
Okay, did the audition description for birdie?
Just say, be pure sunshine. I'm so you nailed it and all
Syria in all seriousness. What did you know about birdie
when you were First cast? That's a great question.
You know, the description was short description, you know,
Bertie was a non-binary heart of gold.
I think that was part of It just, you know, who Bernie was
Max's uncle. But someone that was reliable
and, you know, like, navigating some things right?
So the description was very short.
But it was a it was a fit from the beginning from the very
first moment, I read it. I was just like, wow, you know,
because I was a big fan of the original, right?
You know, there were a lot of weren't included in the original
but they were a lot of things that were and it was so
powerful. Powerful, what was in the
original. So when my manager you know, let
me know that she was submitting me and I had this audition.
I was just like, oh, really A League of Their Own, I'm
curious. What's going on?
What's that going to be about? And I was excited and I was
curious and I wasn't sure where I would fit in but I was ready
to see. I was ready to see the sides and
seeing this character was. And as soon as I read this
character, I was just baffled and just fell in love with it
immediately. I fell in love with birdie
immediately felt connected to birdie so there was A little bit
there. But and there was a lot that was
able to build an add-on to who party was and is Was it hard to
fall in love with birdie? Yeah.
Yes, yeah. Burghley Gold's.
Just Beauty and gold and and there are big enough.
There are birdies in the world right.
And from that time period So Not only was it just a beautiful
character you know, if that I could totally relate to it was
someone who existed in that time and that voice that visibility
and I had the privilege and honor of breathing life into
what was On the page. So just all around.
It was just an amazing experience.
So awesome. And just like to point out that
Max is very lucky because everyone deserves an uncle
birdie and we would like to know if bird he's always been so
supportive of backs I would like to say yes because birdies born
right we know birdies history of Birdie not you know leaving
birdies family. Tony and birdies relationship.
So birdie has had so much pain and and has gone through so much
that birdie can make room for grace.
And compassion for for Max, I feel like that was my
interpretation, that hey, you know what?
I birdie was just really grateful and happy that Max
trusted birdie to intrude, you know, like step into, you know,
birdies world as Max was trying to find her own world in her own
identity. T.
So I think birdie is always had a big, big heart with Max even
when Max was a little thing and birdie you know I think Bernie's
had a special place and birdies hard for Max.
Oh yes, the from the jump from the jump, I'm raising.
Yeah. Yeah.
They're just there seems to be a lot of love in that family,
which is so beautiful even between birdie and Tony.
And even though that, that that relationship seems very complex.
How does birdie view that relationship with Tony?
Yeah, great question. Birdie absolutely loves Tony as
always. Loved Tony and that's why I
think that the harm was so deep, right?
The harm was so impactful and that final scene we see between
them You know birdies really breaking it down.
It was you you were the most dangerous because I could have
done it, your voice meant something to me.
So I think that that was the hardest thing for birdie to do
was to leave and I think it impacted both of them because
Tony even says I just want to use stay and burn.
He's like I know that but that's not the point of view about
maximum but I definitely think that is a beautiful
relationship. I think that hopefully, if all
the Fingers are crossed for a season two.
We get to see a little bit more, right of that relationship,
because there's a whole lot of history.
They have, they have an opportunity to catch up on
right? And Birdies changed.
You know, there are a lot of ways that birdies change but
there are also a lot of ways that birdies the same and like
you know they just need this opportunity.
I think as birdies walking and birdies light and Faith to
reconnect and hopefully they have a chance to do that.
It's a crime that it has not been renewed yet.
Yes, yes, exactly. What is the only hope for
Humanity is if is when the show gets renewed because if it gets
cancelled, there's no hope. Yeah.
I don't know, I manifest on it
and I'm not 100% sure. But what I do know is that the
first season was just so beautiful and amazing.
And once there's so much room to tell more of All of those
stories. So I have faith and a lot of
good energy pushing in that direction.
A lot of hoping all the fingers are crossed but I yeah, it would
be an exciting moment when and if that announcement comes
trying to be quiet, I can't lie. Here is screaming across the
globe, such a needed show. Generator, here we go called
riots across the yeah. We've definitely don't.
Don't make the queers get their pitchforks out because will be
on you to worship the queers are coming
the boardroom. So we all need to keep it.
Yeah. Clothing.
Seems to be an important aspect of your character.
What was it like for birdie to share that experience with Max
by gifting Max. Her first tailored suit, do you
have a favorite outfit for birdie?
Well, great question. The bowling alley outfit was
amazing, but the red suit was ridiculous.
Right. So yeah, holding is a huge think
a birdie, right? It's like birdies of Taylor's, a
birdie creates clothing and I think it has a direct connection
with birdies identity and gender identity and expression to
create the clothes that they wear, right?
It's like they're creating their own clothes, they're creating
this way that walking through world, right with courage and
with swagger at permission to be handsome.
And Permission to be all of these things.
So when Bernie gifts, you know, like creates, you know, gifts
Mad Max. The, the suit, it's just like,
not a rite of passage, but it's like, it's the most intimate
thing that birdie could give her, you know, the most intimate
gift that birdie could create and give Max.
So I think that it's just so powerful, like, here's something
from me that I created for you, as Part of your journey that I
see you on this journey. I've been there, I love you.
I'm beside you. And I want to share this with
you. So it's that in the haircutting
seeing were like two of the most powerful moments of, you know,
welcome at your pace, like, welcome, right.
I'm here with you. But then, when Max, where's the
suit? The way Max wants to wear the
suit. That's also a moment of.
Okay, I put the suit together. Other certain way.
It's supposed to be worn like this, and I see you making your
decisions and I love you. And I'm going to give you the
respect and space that maybe Bernie didn't have when Bernie
was trying to walk that path. So again, it was a another
moment of like, Grace and compassion, and this gift of,
not only a beautiful suit and that intimacy and love, but the
gift of like and I accept you for who you are for how you
want. Wear this suit whatever, you
know. So yeah.
But putting on those suits every day I was I think I was telling
someone that's her asking me about.
Did you get that? They were asking if I got to
keep any of the suits I didn't, but putting those Foods on every
day, like they were so intentional with everything
about the show, the clothing, right?
Like the clothing, everyone's clothing was just out of sight.
And when I got there for wardrobe, you know, I got their
little early because I used to have really her long locks
before the show. And I cut my locks for the role
of Birdie, which was obviously challenging, but it was also
like my hair will grow back. A, I had a moment with my locks
be and this was a role of a lifetime, so for me, everything
was aligned. But when I got there to go to
wardrobe, it took hours for each outfit, even down to the Obamas,
right? So the to the morning, after the
party, See that outfit and they were just like put that Kurt, if
they're now, that doesn't work, put that one there bed, put the
suspenders. No that doesn't work.
Change the belt and it was just like the longest wardrobe
experience I've ever had. But every day when it was time
to shoot something, I'd be like oh what are we shooting seeing?
What am I wearing today? Oh yeah and it was like yes, the
red suit is finally here. And you know that was part of,
you know, like the getting ready for the role of Birdie like the
stepping into birdies. Roll every day, you know, like
there was always there and never left, you know, but putting the
clothes on was. Also another moment of like, you
know, stepping into the honor of being birdie, you know, and
those scenes home Your question. I think I'm sorry you more than
nailed it. I have a question though.
Yeah. Was it a requirement for you to
cut your hair? Like did you want to or were you
just like? All right I'll do anything to
get this part. That is a fantastic question.
It was just a request. So it wasn't like, you know,
Haley's Lee's gonna have to cut their hair or they're not going
to get this role. It was just a that was posed to
my manager if if I would be open to it you know so I was in l.a.
getting ready to shoot the second season or the second
episode. I was in a show about 20s Lena
weights, show 20s. And I was getting ready to shoot
the second episode that I was in for that and my manager calls me
and says, hey Sue, got a question, would you be where
that willing? To cut your hair, there's a
request, you know, like just an inquiry.
And I just spent the day just thinking about it, initially, I
was just like, what, you know, and then I thought about it.
I was just like, you know, just I had to go through a process,
y'all had to go through a process of weighing the pros and
the cons and and I had those locks for a very long time, and
I was ready to do something different with them, you know,
as I settle So, the Panic of my hair, I like my hair.
I had to just kind of like dial it down and really sit in
meditation, you know, and what I discovered in meditation was
that, no, it's okay to cut your hair.
You've been thinking about doing something different with your
hair. First of all, second of all,
your hair will grow back, you know, everyone.
I talk to, you know, like everyone like from acting
coaches to my mother and father to my partner to my siblings.
You know, everyone was really. Only supportive.
And once I prayed on it, meditated on it, settled on it.
It felt like an amazing journey of a page turning, you know.
So it wasn't like when I cut it. I was like, oh no it was like
no. This is part of my process and
this part of my journey and you know this is a opportunity of a
lifetime you know it's the role that I've waited for like
honestly as a non-binary and trans actor who has tried to fit
into boxes you know and be things that I time.
You know. It was a role that It was kind
of Honor someone and I really wanted to be a part of honoring
that and once I settled with myself and walk through that
process and that meditation, I knew it was the right thing to
do and I was excited and I did a ritual with it folks.
Kept saying, you got to do a ritual with your hair, you got
to cut your, you got to do a ritual, you got to do a ritual
and I couldn't come up with a ritual.
I was like, you know, I was getting nervous.
I was like I gotta cut my hair soon.
I don't have a ritual. You know what am I going to do
in the night before? Or we cut it and I was in the
hotel and I was like, shampooing it, whatever because they were
like wash and shampoo it. And I just held it in my hands
and I just like had a moment with it.
Like, you know, it's hard to explain it but I was emotional.
I have a joy in my heart and gratitude and then that was it.
That was my ritual and then I was ready to do it and then we
did it and I loved it like the whole process and journey of
cutting it. Was like spiritual and and you
know then they'll the sitting with the short hair with
spiritual, it was all just a very like spiritual moment and I
feel like we have those moments in our lives, right?
They come like we have to sit with something that may seem
really scary and it may seem really hard and it makes others
may be like, oh my, but we're the ones you could sit with it
right. And we get to Like a Hurricane
by Caitlin. A process.
And it was probably one of the most, for a couple of
experiences that I say are like, very impactful in my life, and
that's definitely one of them in a really good way.
Thank you had your own hair cutting seen like maxted.
Yeah, that's formed in real life.
He let me cut the first one. That's great.
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, and he, let me come to say
he let me cut the first one and the last one and well, my hair
was so long and heavy by the time we were done.
I felt like I had a bobble head. I was like, all right, I know,
right. So It was a and it was funny
because when I first came out you know here's a big deal I
think that's what's so powerful about that scene with Max
cutting Max's hair and like net way of like look I mean that
again you know like here's something that some folks May
interpret as being a part of this community and we're going
to do that, right? And in real life, when I first
came out and started to like, really be an acceptance of who I
was. I cut my hair and it was like
Like this amazing liberating moment that I had at the
beginning of my journey and in some ways when I did that, you
know, this lot. It was also just like a return
to something that was really powerful to me.
So I don't know. I need to probably do a show on
hair. Write a book long.
Absolutely. Its transparent really shows who
you are. It's a part of you.
It really is. Yeah. but, It's app that we're
talking about that because our next question is about the
haircutting scene. Yeah.
So we were just wondering you kind of touched on the
importance of that same but what was it like to film it?
It was. It was a very emotional scene.
I think that a lot of people like you were like folks on set,
it was an emotional scene for folks, you know, it was really
impactful and I think that that's the same coming right off
from off of Max and birdies meeting again for the first time
in Max being afraid and like leaving and, and Bertie was
obviously a little bit hurt because Max ran away, but for he
has compassion, because Bernie was right there.
Once Bertie probably ran away a couple times to, right?
So and Then she comes, Max comes back, and then they cut the
hair, and it's like again, this gift, right?
That two gifts are being offered, like, birdies offering
this gift of cutting her hair, right?
Max's hair, and this is something that birdie and Tony
used to do together. They learned how to do this
together. So it's another Connecting
Point, right? For a Max, for the triangle of
Max and Tony and birdie, but it's also a gift that Max is
giving to birdie, right? The trust of Yes, cut my hair.
I know what this means. I don't know what it means all
of it, but I know it means something and I want you to do
it, you know? So yeah.
It was just Honey, I'm sure. Was just really.
It's just hard to explain like the emotions, you know, we're
part of a lot of those things that we did and that was a huge
emotional scene for me as well. Yeah, it was watching it.
You don't I didn't know what to say.
After we're what you even I had to sit with it for a minute
after I watched that scene and I still don't think I grasp fully
like everything. Like I want to round up all of
those feelings and put them into some kind of words, but that it
just doesn't feel like Words, Encompass, yeah, feeling of that
same. So that was it was beautiful.
Yeah, thank you. That's exactly it's beautifully
articulated. I feel the same way.
Yeah. Speaking of things that are
beautiful on the show birdie and Gracie are just like literal
couple goals and we love them so so much.
We're just curious. Is there some kind of backstory
real or fictional about how birdie and Gracie met?
Um, there's a little bit. I think that there's a little
bit that kind of comes out in the show but I think that's
probably one of the things that we hope to see more of okay?
Okay, okay. I think I need any guests to
like how long they've kind of been together.
I don't know if it's a spoiler either.
I would know. I would I would say it birdies
coming through. Now Bernie would say they
probably had it for about 10 years or so they've been through
it. They've been through the ups and
the downs and birdie hasn't always been easy.
Easy because birdies been going through through it and Gracie's
bad. So it's a beautiful love that
they have. Absolutely because we all need
someone really has. Yeah, so and Gracie's amazing.
Great look like yeah, he's great, he's the boss.
Don't get it twisted, okay. Patrice, an amazing actress
actor, amazing person. A lot of fun to be around in
those with influence, so much amazing energy.
So I just really, you know, all the fingers are crossed but I
look forward to, you know, exploring that relationship or
as well, absolute definitely will see it.
Here it is manifest Everything we are.
Snowcat Kaitlyn's gonna make it happen or what we really are.
We need Humanity to be alive. Still just saying, there's no
way it, I'm manifesting it with you.
We're manifesting this and hopefully when it happens.
We can be in contact with each other like yes.
I love that, okay? Despite the time period birdie
and Gracie have managed to forge their own black.
Queer Community which they invite Max to be apart of.
How do you think birdie navigated building a community
in the 1940s? It was really hard.
I think that Something that keeps what's that, what's that?
Something that struck me and continues to strike me.
Now, when I think about birdie birdie in that time, period is
how hard it is to be when we talk about the intersecting
identities, right? To be like black and to be
non-binary trans Nam, you know, conforming, whatever, you know,
someone is identifying as must have been really lonely for
birdie, right? Because there's all this racism
that's happening. So, Trying to face racism.
You know we sometimes we a lot of times kind of like try to be
with people who look like us and like us are experiencing the
same things as us. Right?
And then there's that other layer of but also being this
non-binary person is trans person, you know and Someone who
does seem where he brings a suit over and clients is like your
own said, a freak, like that's what birdie is dealing with, you
know. So in order to be able to like
continue to like Thrive by Thrive, I mean like be like that
support for the community and be someone who's like pulling
parties together and you know, making sure people have an
opportunity to come together even though it is.
Like secretly, you know what I'm saying?
Like, even though it is like, you know, across the tracks and,
and, and we're being secret, it's been really whipping really
secretive about it. Birdies able to do that, right?
And I think that birdie and, and Grace Gracie are able to do
that. I think there are power couple,
you know, I think that they have chosen to be public about their
love and Gracie has chosen to walk with birdie in ways that
could be harmful for. Gracie, you know what I'm
saying? And be beside birdie and vice
versa, and I think there are powerful couple, and I think
that, you know, bird he's taking on like being the person that
brings people together. It's just what birdies calling
is you know, like and that's not a stretch that I feel very
connected to that. I feel like that's also my
calling is visibility bringing awareness to things, you know
like like being vocal, you know, if you have a platform to be
able to like be visible and talk about some of these things doing
that. So I think that that's birdies
calling is to like be a support for community, be there to bring
folks together, be that safe space for folks to come to
order. Uh, safer Brave space to because
we know, you know, there aren't safe spaces, safe spaces, just
hardly exists. But braver spaces were folk skin
like really come together and be themselves and be beautiful and
listen to music. I mean that party scene y'all
whoa seriously seriously but birdie is that is that's
probably been a challenge and I'm sure birdie birdie really
does a great job of Trying to provide for others what maybe
birdie need it and didn't get, right?
So this idea of, you know, really working to create that
community and you know, make sure folks have a place to land
and make sure folks have a place to be and be themselves.
So Yeah. And that party scene was a yo,
that was probably the longest longest night for me.
Anyway, I think we shot till like 2:00 in the morning or
something, and but it was just so grateful be in that space
with all of those actors and beautiful outfits and party
called and then how the house was set up, you know, like to It
was just gorgeous. I felt like I was at a party
even though it was like six hours past my bedtime, I was
like it 9:00. Like, I need to it was a Friday
night. I think it was a Friday night
actually because we were off Saturday, I think.
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, but yeah, I was torn.
Don't think I partied that hard since I was in college.
I was like, what is a great party though?
If you had to pick one to go to? But her family watching the
party, seriously seriously, it was a lot of fun, everyone was
afraid. There's that's also something
that was really amazing. Was everyone on this project was
amazing from the directors 222 wardrobe to like everybody, you
know, the camera got they, everyone was just amazing.
You know, pronouns are something that I've talked about this
before. You know, the pronouns on this
set were just on point, you know, crew.
Everyone was just like really working to make sure those
things were acknowledged and if it wasn't acknowledged or
someone missed, then it was, you know, like it was immediate like
okay, okay, my bad, whatever. Let's go, you know, and there's
never a time that I felt like that.
Wasn't that, that was unpleasant for me.
You know what I'm saying? It felt like a very safe.
Ace very, you know, intentional and it was just you don't we do
as actors. We don't always have those types
of spaces, you know, right. When we're in, you know, on sets
Etc which it should be and we're getting there.
We have a long way to go, but we're getting there, but it was
just really refreshing this set and the set 20s was just really
like inclusive and very intentional straight to here.
Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.
Yeah. So, what would you like to see
for your character in the future?
Just I would definitely love to see more interaction with the
people you know and birdies life.
You know that lots of Bernie like Tony obviously continued
like support of Max and Gracie you know like Gracie's
relationship and just like birdie in the world you know.
I just, I just want to see birdie continue to like beloved
by the people and birdies life, you know, and, and continue to
love others, like that, show of, like, radical love, right?
That like that. Love that, you know, is like
unconditional, but sometimes it's complicated and you just
walk in the path, right? You know, I want to keep
communicating and navigating it, so I just wanted to see birdie
continue to like, be able Able to like kind of navigate those
spaces and continue to thrive and throw more parties and and
just be in the world. And I also want to see some way.
Like when clients says, you know, you can't help with your
aunt, a freak. I want to see her.
Yes. Because Bernie was already to
talk the class for it was like, hey, how's it going class?
Was like, no. So there are moments that like
those moments that I really want to see Bernie show up for
clients and Some way or vice versa and, you know, just
continue to get to know birdy, you know.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah I want to see birdie and
clients. Yes, it's one of those wishes
yes, all the hard work. So all of the characters stories
can be fussed out so much more. You know, you just want to see
more about everyone, you know. I just want to see more about
everyone, everyone like all of it.
It's just ridiculous. Figure on everyone, seriously.
So many characters and so many plays, you can take it but a lot
of times when there's so many characters, it feels like
everybody's rushed but I feel like we did get a good amount of
each character. Yeah.
Like no one was like not
developed those as well balanced.
And that that's like a been a problem in some other series
that we've talked about is like, they'll be either one part of
the show or a And that feels really rushed, but I didn't feel
that at all. Like I felt like we got to spend
like not as much time as we wanted obviously, but enough
time with everybody to feel like you really got to know them.
So that is a blessing of the show to and the writer full
balance. Yes, the writers are just
amazing, you know the writers are using for this show, you're
spot on. Free like the balance because
you're right, when you're trying to tell so many stories,
sometimes you get run us. You gotta.
But these were such well-rounded stories at the writers.
Did a tremendous tremendous job and it was always so
collaborative as well. You know, like I had a couple of
meetings, you know? And it was like what do what's
what do we think? What's happening here with
birdie? You know what's birdies are like
like what do you think? You know.
So even though there was a foundation in the writers, did a
great job, there was still I think a lot of room Or actors
to, like really step into those characters and make those
characters their own and, like, like really breathe life into
them, you know, such a partnership, but I just shout
out the writers. I mean, brilliant.
Like, like one of my things, you know, there are a lot of
favorite seems obviously, but when that happened in the club,
you know what I'm saying, like when the raid happened and all,
that was happening right? At the same time that we were
having this. Party that was underground.
But we were having this, all this joy, and Max is having this
experience, and it's all this stuff happening.
And then, on the flip of the coin, in the same heartbeat,
there's this other stuff. This rate that's happening and
it's such a powerful scene, you know, as my mother, my mom and
my parents watched it and they were so excited and, you know,
they live in Kentucky and all my siblings or their nieces and
nephew, and I've always just wanted my parents to see me, you
know, until you know, like, you know, you always and some kid
and they were really excited, but my mom was talking about
that scene. Particular, you know how, you
know, like she knew people know that that happened but it's a
totally different experience to walk to actually witness it the
way the writers presented it like you were right there.
Do not. I mean it was like yeah, excited
that they were having this experience and that you're
rooting for them to be able to hold hands and dance.
And then this thing happens and it's so violent.
And then they're sitting in the movie theater and they're like
out of Breath. And they're like, trying to
absorb. What the hell just happened.
And that was one of the things. My mom like when we did our
debrief really talked about was like, how moving me how much you
know that impacted her? So yeah, I just think it was
beautiful. All of it was just with such
intention, you know, the directors or writers.
It was just all Ridiculous. It was just beautiful.
I just went and watched it at different times.
Oh yeah, I'm 20 Aura. Watch this episode.
She, she couldn't keep watching the ship she sat with this
episodes, and we actually had to We Video chatted, so she could
just go on a tangent about it. Cause she, yeah, I mean, you can
speak for yourself, but I just thought this episode will always
stay in my mind with just how your and she told me so much
about That episode in general. And I can't wait for us to
actually talk about the show on the podcast because there's so
much. Yeah, so so good.
Yeah. Did the intention and care.
That's the perfect way to describe it.
Like it's just, it's so palpable in every aspect of this show
which is one of the reasons, it's just so special.
So I means a lot to hear you say that as somebody who like embody
one of the characters and was actually like working in it
because it just, it really comes through and that episode in
particular is just it's so powerful.
In like a beautiful way. That's really good to hear.
That's really good figure. I had to pause that app, and
then I watched it, like the latest of anybody.
And so, I'd already heard them freak out about it.
And I didn't know what it was. I just see they had freaked out
about it. When like, okay, what the heck?
Am I getting into? Just like, you have to prepare
for episode 6. Just prepare yourself.
Please nobody better die. No more.
Queer characters are dying.
Don't worry. I know.
I'm always like no cats. No.
If someone if a dog or cat gets it in the first five minutes of
the movie. Yeah we're it, I'm out.
I'm out. It's one thing.
I can't do those dogs movies. Trying to find their way home.
Uh yeah. It was things are so sad.
That's a wrap. I'm not strong enough for that.
I watch humans be lost. But animals have never heard.
I cannot handle it. I was watching, you know, I do
this like scary movie marathon. I'm doing like tonight's afraid
right now, and I was laughing because the night before, I
don't remember what I was watching, but a dog came into
the picture, and it was lining up like the dog was going to get
it, and I pause it. And I had this whole
conversation with myself, I was like, absolutely not.
I'm not gonna watch this. Dog gets killed.
I need to watch the review. I need to read to see if this
dog gets killed. It was funny how I was more
upset, this slasher movie, but I was about any of the four who
had gotten it before. So it's yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
That's what I do though. If I see an animal coming to the
picture at any point, that looks like it's not good for the and
I'm like, all right, I got to Google this.
We got a Google before we can continue about.
I was forced to watch one scary movie when I was younger and it
was hide-and-seek and there was a cat.
Fortunately, the cats not alive and I was just like scarred so
bad because I was like nope never watching this stuff again,
so I don't watch scary movies. Right?
It's like Halloweentown. Those are my October whatever is
in it. Down.
Okay. Let me know if you are mine
scared, very easily. When I was a child, like The
Lion, King scared me. So, everything was a scary movie
to me. That's real talk.
That is real talk, okay. This space is for all of you.
See, movies are terrifying, okay?
Yes, I mean if you really look at it, if you just kind of, look
at Disney movies, it's like Howard watching.
This is like okay, the parents are going to get it in.
First two minutes of good television shows their
own. You mentioned this a little bit,
but we're just curious how filming A League of Their Own
compared to other projects that you have.
Done in past. No.
Um, I'd say that it's just okay. I think about this for a second.
I think that all the projects I've been on have had their
things that were special, but I think the two things about A
League of Their Own that was really not in comparison with
any other projects but just stand out for me was just the
intention, you know, kind of how talked The intention around the
work that we were doing the stories we were telling and the
intention around the set being, you know, you know, like, it
felt like a really welcoming inclusive space for me, right?
But also the respect right? It's like we were like the
original, is there right there? Original is a masterpiece in the
world. It's a beautiful that's AB, it's
just, it's, it's own thing. And I know sometimes there's
pressure when you're kind of like even though we weren't
really doing anything, there's pressure when you're doing what
we're doing, what we were doing, right.
But there was so much respect and honor of the original.
While also telling the stories that weren't told, right?
Or the voices, we didn't have a chance to hear, what's the proof
that you could do both. You can be in both, you can
honor it. And you can also honor, and
respect. The fact that they were telling
the story that they could tell at the time.
And we get to tell. We get to like dig a little bit
deeper in some of those narratives.
So I think that was like that was really interesting to me and
I was really impressed and the way that you know, the stories
were told while honoring, you know, the original because the
original is important, and it's amazing.
And you know, it's an important story that was told at that time
and we had an opportunity to Like to go there no add on to
that and tell different stories of different voices.
So I think that that's something that was a little bit different
than anything I've experienced. You know, like that desire to to
really get it right in the desire to navigate.
You know, a story that's already been told without doing like,
you know, I'm saying it's not a spin-off and well it's not a
redo. It's none of that.
It's just a unique opportunity to build on Something that's
already there and add a few things that will really, really,
really, really, really important.
So I would say just the intention behind the project
itself and the intention, you know, you know, that minutia you
know what we were doing in the moment sunsets and in the
writers room and stuff like that was really, really stands out
for me with this project. You know, I know, I talked a
little bit about 20 years before Lena.
Wait is amazing. It was it was amazing to get a
talk to Linda before. We you know, shot the episode to
be able to be on a set that was intentional and I'm respectful
and and doing it the right way. And the character I had an
opportunity to play was a non-binary, reverend like church
school, right? And reverent apartment.
And Reverend Harmon was a marriage counselor, who Worked
with the main, one of the main couples, the show who are
getting married and they hadn't paused to talk about the fact
that you know the mail. You know, the the guy who was in
the relationship was actually questioning his sexuality, you
know. So in that scene, we had a
chance at a black church with a black couple.
On BET have a conversation about sexuality and you know, broad
community and this this male identified person who was
talking you know like this is I was born to win.
I was born to do all these things as a man and you know,
but I feel this is how I feel and I don't think we should get
married and I need some time. So it was like kind of walking
him through giving him not giving him permission, but
supporting his process. In his journey and that was that
was so powerful. I mean I had folks write me
emails from like different parts of the country to say I've never
seen this before and this was so important in a black church.
This was so important. I'm so grateful that this
happened and there was a lot of discourse that happened around,
you know, the risk of putting that on television and you know
like like that visibility, right?
And that representation and how important was?
So I've been on some great. Out of some great projects and
you know those are the two that steps you know jump out to me
most around you know the intention and and the spaces
that will create a lot of ability and the dialogue that we
inspired folks to have. So yeah it's amazing that we get
to see this these as so many things now that we're getting to
say. And I'm just really glad that is
happening in our lifetime. So it cuz experiencing it It is
just like a crazy mix of frustration that we haven't been
able to get to that point before but also Joy at seeing it.
So that's amazing. And that is something that
should be. I'm so happy that you guys made
that because it needs to be out there was we were it saves like
representation saves lives. That's just me.
Those period, it does. In, I get emotional because it's
so important. And I feel like if I had seen
that, like, I was just a little queer.
Black kid growing up in Kentucky and I had no, I didn't have
anyone who looked like me or sound like me that I could be
like, oh, that's okay. That's who I am or that's.
That seems familiar to me. So I'm okay, as opposed to, you
know, not having that and I was a big fan of television and You
know, like HBO and I mean I love television it was I usually use
that as a way to escape, you know, like to escape this life
that I was in where I wasn't in the right body and all these
ways that I felt and if I had had seen someone like that on
television, when I was little that might have helped, you know
what I'm saying? Like that's why for me, it's
your right representation matters.
It's so important for characters like birdie you know, forever
and tie, you know, like these characters.
Earth that can name a lot of characters that are on
television right now like non-binary and trans Folks by
Caitlin by Kaitlyn. So incredibly, it's so
important. You're right, if that changes
lives, it saves lives. It makes conversations helps
conversations to happen. It's just it's, it's necessarily
it's an opportunity. I think, like, that's the word.
My brain likes to throw up. Is it creates opportunities?
Yes, absolutely. Lee.
Absolutely have representation on our podcast.
We were always talking about the need for more representation in
the media. What do you hope people learn or
see through your characters specifically?
Yeah, it's stories. I hope that folks here story
that needs to be told and needs to be heard.
And and also that we can tell more of those stories, right?
We can like take the risk to tell me before he's whether it's
on a show. One Amazon Prime or whether it's
on ABC, you know. We can telling these stories
because that's been kind of one of the coolest Parts about
Bernie is like, finally seeing birdie, get the love that birdie
deserves, you know the birdies in the world like the bird,
right? Like he's being human right now
and getting love so I think that's really important and I
think that it's reliable to a lot of different Types of people
and different generations. And I think folks are getting
curious and then you know and like talking to each other about
what they're seeing on television and I was hoping that
folks will watch the show and talk about what they saw in the
episode. It was like really talk about
whatever it was, talk about what it was, what it, how it impacted
and maybe it feels uncomfortable and that's great.
But I'm saying we could be uh, you know, with with with this.
So I hope that That folks see that, you know what?
Yeah, no, we need to put it out there.
And we need folks to, we need to put it out there so that we can
create educational opportunities and not in a way of like,
educating like not in not in a way of like, Folks who are
carrying the load educating others.
But in the way of like folks actually watching something and
being like, well, I didn't know that or wow, I didn't know that.
I want to learn more about that or well.
I just saw myself on television. I cannot believe this, you know.
So the idea that more. It's okay, it's important and
it's time that we see in here more even though the pushback, I
don't know if you all were looking at the reviews in the
very beginning. We all saw all of that.
I immediately texted your nose. Like why are there bad reviews?
Like what's going on? And it was all based on identity
and based on not wanting to see certain identity voices and
people represented, you know. So there's going to be pushed
back, always, but and we still have an opportunity to do it and
we should do it. So absolutely, I totally agree.
And I love that. That's so intentional, like
hearin Rights Campaign. Just had their leg big thing
last night and having Shante were there.
And Abby even said like, you know, for me like I know in my
bones and if I had this show growing up like my life would
have been different. And so I love that.
You said that because it's so true and that intentionality
really like comes out in this media.
And that's what makes it so beautiful because it's telling
multiple stories, For multiple people, like I feel like anybody
who watches, it could find something they identify with or
are discovering in a positive way for the first time.
And and that, that is what we really need honestly, at this
time. Yeah.
So grateful to be a part of something like that, you know,
thank you for being a part of something like that.
Like, like I was a huge fan of the original movie like that
movie changed my life and then when I heard this show is going
to happen, I was like, oh yeah, a show version, that's so
amazing. But like the way It came out
just like yeah, elevated it so much in such a mind-boggling
way. Like, it's just, it's
everything. So, thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
I watching and supporting it because it takes a little
getting this platform. We can talk about it and others
can listen. Like, you all are on the
Frontline of pushing pushing this out.
So thank you all seriously. Thank you for believing in.
The show and for all your love and support with the show and
for the characters and for being on the Frontline with us, you
know I'm saying like putting it out there into the world because
it's risky to do that right now. It's it's it's it's a lot of
things and it takes a lot of courage and persistence to push
back the way. We're all pushing back right now
so thank you all. That's the whole other podcast.
It's just to like keep the conversation going.
Make sure make people aware of other media that's out there and
also advocate for better representation because we're not
gonna get it unless we hear yell about it.
Unfortunately, yeah, exactly. Yeah, be loud and be persistent
or as you all are doing great work.
This is yes. Yes, thank you for everything
that you can. Thank you.
It's a nice symbiotic relationship.
Yes. So going away from the show
little bit. Yeah, before you became an
actor, you coached basketball and played in college.
How did Sports impact you Sports?
Is one of the love of my life, right?
It's just damn, it was From. You know, it actually gave me
and this is going to sound interesting, you know.
So let's put it out there and see how it goes.
We could always chop it out if it's weird.
But, you know, as a young tomboy, like it gave me like
Avenue to, like, express myself. He told me like, a, an Avenue to
like beat uncle could be like, play like a boy.
You're right. I do play like a boy because I'm
really a boy. I'm sorry buddy.
Shut. You know what I'm saying?
It was like totally everyone was behind it because growing up you
know like I was I was bored, you know and y'all saw me pause
because I don't usually do that you know I had some talents with
it. Right and we knew that that was
going to be a way for me to go to college period.
You know that was going to be probably the only way that I was
going to go to college to either get an academic scholarship or
to get an athletic scholarship. For some sort of help no shade
to my family or, you know, I just it just what?
That was what it was, you know. So, not only did I have this
Avenue to like be myself, but folks are like encouraging it.
Put the ball in my hand, you know.
Like so you know, like sports gave me.
That was the first thing. It gave me like this discipline.
And this way to like, express myself, you know, when I was on
the court it was like I was in another world, right?
And Then, you know, like college it gave me more discipline, you
know, part of a team, the value of a team that was also helped
me connect with A League of Their Own, and should I get it?
I get thing. I get having crushes on someone
I and together on this trip. Oh my God.
Okay. So but that just gave me Must
discipline. And and something I cared about
I was on the journey as an athlete, you know?
And it was an amazing journey that I was a coach.
I coached for a couple decades, I was a head coach.
I was an assistant coach and and I really loved working with
students, you know? But I was in the closet, the
whole time, even in college basketball.
I was in the closet, never was in the space to come out.
You know, Athletics was always in my experience, really
homophobic, not a group. Not a place for me to be out.
It wasn't until you know, later in my coaching career, that I
started working with this program called it takes a team
and also the national Center for lesbian rights and they were on
a campaign to talk about homophobia in athletics.
And then I came out because, you know, I had student athletes who
were who were scared to be themselves, and I was just like
this, that's it. I met someone, we were in this
relationship, we were Sneaking around, you know, and having to
like be really sneaky and she was like, look listen, I've been
out of closet for a long time. So I bought it for you, you
know. So you know, it was such a jerk
but I eventually realized that I was at a place in my life where
It was time for me to do that, not just because of her, but
because of my students and I was privy to conversations that were
painful about our student athletes, you know, and coaches
meetings. And so it was important for me
to be like low, yo, why y'all are talking?
I'm also let me go ahead and come out so you y'all need to
get it together, right? For like a bedroom but I came
out of the closet and started really advocating for, you know,
coaches having better understandings of their student
athletes and What it would look like to create safe environments
and athletic. So that was also a huge part of
my journey with Athletics. As you know like being able to
come out and be on a whole different page with Something
that was totally different in athletics because, you know, and
Athletics, it's all about the games, your grades, the losses,
the recruit, the recruiting, it's not about who you are and
who your kids are, you know, so that was really different.
And then I went, you know, into higher ed and got a master's in
education started, you know, doing diversity work to receive
education, which is what I do. Now, I do a lot of D.
I worked for see equity and inclusion business and I help
people be more inclusive. Right, you know, like how do you
create safer and braver environments, you know, you're
all Diversified. Now, what are you talking to
each other? How do you like, navigate
spaces? How do you really lean into some
of the scariest conversations to have and this day?
And this time period? Right?
And like be humble and learn something.
So that was a very long answer to your question but athletic
amazing answer. You see me with Have this and I
have a little bowl and oh, I'll just shoot it like that and it
won't go in. But one of these days.
Yeah, we just filmed an episode where we told her coming-out
stories and just basically the entire Journey.
So I sorry I'm having dog issues right now.
So I've learned a lot about the athletic part from the or
Embrace because they were the sporty Yes.
Y'all know what to talk about? You know, yes.
Like, I really my high school softball.
Coach actually said, if there, if, if I found out there any
lesbians on this team, they're getting kicked off, like,
straight up to the whole team just in the Dugout One Day.
Yes. So if it was open homophobia,
what it was? Yes, I had that.
As a coach, I was sitting in a locker room and someone said, no
booze, no drugs. No.
Something else. And no lesbians.
And I almost spit everything. Huh.
It was like, so, yeah. There are spacious like that.
Wow, these coaches are delusional.
Yeah. Is it like the basic stereotype?
Is that girls in sports are gay? Have you met a softball team?
That's why this other girl was so important.
Because there were so many people who work coming out and
being like, wait, I was a part of that, you know, like 80 to
90. Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, like it's just it's wow, you know.
Amazing. Yeah.
So, so we're curious. So what inspired you to pursue
acting after like that long career in sports and your
Masters and all of that? Yeah, you know I've always been
and always been since I was little like the whole grade
school I was like, trying to be in plays and stuff like that and
you know, life just kind of moved me in another Direction
and I jumped into Athletics. Eggs instead you know but I was
always, you know, like had one foot one imaginary foot in that
world, right? And then you know as I was a
young person, you know like watching TV watching films,
watching movies I was again always into that because in my
imagination that helped me to create other worlds that I can
be and, you know, like as a trans person as a queer kid, you
know, there was like that was always an Avenue for like the
imagination and you know, to be able to think of being other
people in the World. You know, that felt like they
were a better fit for who I what I felt like I was or wasn't so
I've always had one foot in and one foot out, you know, I've
spent time coaching, I've worked in and Multicultural Affairs
offices. You know, I've been this
professional this nine to fiver in higher, ed, my whole life,
but I've always liked even when I lived in New York City and I
was working on Columbia, as you know, they're, they're they're
Multicultural Affairs, you know, like Lgbtq.
I did a lot of work for lgbtq students on that campus.
Creating safe spaces and trainings, and all of that.
And I was also doing downtown theater, you know, I was headed
out for an audition after work or slipping off at lunch, to go
to an audition. So that's always been, you know,
part of my world. The intention has I've always
wanted to be able to just do the acting piece, you know, but as
I'm an entrepreneur and an actor, my work is really
connected, right? I get You know like meet my
colleague for his ability in the industry and have conversations
about this ability and representation, you know, in
this conversation and then tomorrow going to a training
where I'm teaching, you know, like maybe cops police officers,
you know how to have these types of conversations about race and
class and you know, so it's right and it's all really
connected and I get to get to do that.
So and my acting kind of really helps with my other life, you
know, like being in front of people.
You know, like doing presentations having
conversations being really approachable and now that I've
been in A League of Their Own people like, are you?
Wait, wait, but let's focus on what a bias is biased.
Really, really, it's pretty. So, you know it's you know, it's
I'm still doing all of that. It's possible to do all those
things at once and it is, you know, so I don't know if that
answers your question but it's always been with me.
I've always been, you know, like one foot into this one and
simultaneously walking with panel Towards the same exact
thing, you know we're so glad you did because then we got to
meet you so I know. Okay, thank you.
This is Chris multi-talented. That's what it is.
Yeah. Yeah you can't do or like don't
do because you're just like a hero and just making the world
such a better place. Yeah, thank you.
I'm sure. There's lots.
Let me get my partner in here. She'll probably. like, I was
supposed to fix this thing in the bathroom and I kind of,
didn't we all have our different things that we do right things
that she does and I'm like that I do and she's like, oh yeah
yeah and then I volunteered to do this thing with the sink or
the shower rod and I Mhm. I hate not doing what I said I'm
going to do. So I think I should do.
We're done. I even, but I got the tools out,
like, last week. I put the tool progress.
Yeah, definitely. There.
I mean, yeah, it'll get fat official who honestly, I'm
honoring my journey. Yeah, I'm saying, yes, I'm
sitting with it right now. I'm sitting with my pen tools
and how helpful they are making for a have the right intention
with this process, you know, this project but I'm probably
gonna go do it. It when we're finished actually
meditate with the show. You got this.
Thank you. I appreciate y'all.
It's makes art in wood, but you have to like take a battery
apart and It's really dangerous and people didn't realize how
dangerous it was. And so people started catching
on fire YouTube link, you learn after the first person moving
away from you people burning. I'm so gonna do that, we're
finished. I'll do the Well, thankfully,
there are a lot of don't do this videos now, right?
Yeah. Totally.
But you do when someone says don't do it, you want to do it.
Exactly. Don't have no desire to play
with electricity, I'm good. Yeah, I think I'm pretty good at
not doing it to if I see some success.
Don't do it. I want to watch others who have
done it so I can understand why we're like The Observers of the
universe. I'm fucked up your life but
we're not going to do it, then we'll learn that from it, forget
what movie it was when I was little my dad.
I think it was like a Christmas story.
Well, that's where the kid sticks.
His tongue on the pole. Yeah, okay, yeah.
So I saw that and my dumbass child self went outside saying,
well we don't really work like that.
That was the whole point of that saying.
Embarrassed that I actually did it.
So I just kind of rip my tongue off but I was a tiny bit stuck
out like a little bit of my tongue so it wasn't like licking
the bowl. Okay, I need to know what
happened. Did your tongue?
Good piece of your tongue. Come on.
I think it was bleeding a little bit, but it wasn't too bad.
Okay, nothing about that. Entire story made me comfortable
at all. So, I was not endorsing any of
these things, appreciate it or not.
I've got a lot of stories like that when I was younger.
But anyway, let's move on to the next question, so we can
actually be relevant. What advice would you give other
trans and non-binary? Actors who may feel like they
don't belong, or don't know what types of roles they can or feel
comfortable playing? Hmm.
Okay. I would say a couple of things I
would say one, like you're not alone, just keep on.
I keep finding the people who will support you, right?
Find the people who get it like the casting directors, find the
managers agents other actors like other acting communities.
I think there are a lot of communities online, you know,
like for Trans, you know, actors non-binary actors.
You know, look that up to see if you can find some folks.
I will I'll support you. You know what I'm saying?
Like, if you need to talk or whatever, I can make myself
available to support, anyone who's trying to that, you know,
trying to make it. But to stick with it, just keep
keep doing what you're doing. Keep working at it.
Also, your voice is important, right?
Like these stories are being told more now.
So, it's about like believing in yourself and and, and, and
that's just my own personal, you know, Journey because I've In
there, I've been like not fitting in I've been like, at
the end of it. Like I did.
This is not an industry for me. You know, I've been at all those
places and those tank those times and places will happen,
you'll be there. And it's just about finding the
people who support you and encourage you.
So just, you know like continuing to just work and find
those communities. Your voices are important.
People want to hear our voices, people want to hear those
narratives and want to cast us. In those voices, right?
Like there are people at the writers table who are, you know,
writing these experiences you know, there's so there's more
that's coming and happening so just stick with it right?
And then lastly be that for someone else, right?
So no once you are like in this industry and you're getting your
footing and getting your grounding and you're connecting
with community and you're feeling kind of like a little
more stable in it. Make sure you be that for
someone else, right? Because we've got a We've got to
give that back in this in some sort of way, right?
We've got to like help each other are, we've got to we're
all on this journey, you know. And we get to celebrate each
other. We get to celebrate each other's
wins. We get to be there for each
other, so make sure that, you know, you're supporting your
fellow trans non-binary, binary queer sibling actors and
actresses as well. So that's what I would say.
It's just it's hard. It is, it's really hard.
Okay, but just keep keep. Keep doing what you're doing
know that you're on your own Journey.
So there may be times where you are sitting with, you know, am I
going to take this role? You know, should I take this
role or should I say? No, that's not.
That's not I'm not going to do that and not or maybe you, you
decide? Yeah.
I'm going to do this and you do it but just remember it's your
journey and it's your decision and you get to be the one that
crafts your acting career and you're acting Journey.
So I don't know, it's just about getting those getting that
support. You can be like, hey you should
have three out of four said I shouldn't do it by the decide,
right? So yeah, out here trying to make
this work so I don't know that can just for me honestly that's
a great question and I probably answer that question a little
bit different tomorrow next week.
I don't know it just kind of it just kind of dip.
Just really is kind of a journey, you know, like that.
It's like it's this fluid but the one thing I always say is
like be that for someone else that is the thing that always
consistent, find your people be that people for somebody else,
right? I think that's important for
everybody in general because so many people like start making it
but then forget where they came from.
It's like find some. Like go help other people get to
where you are. Absolutely.
And that's tough sometimes you
know, like The other day, I was like, hey, one of us wins, all
of us wins. And that's, that's sometimes,
that's really hard. That can be hard.
I'm not going to sit here and be like, unicorns and butterflies.
It could be hard when, you know, like there's very few
opportunities, you know, and maybe more fo our vision for
that opportunity and you didn't get that opportunity and someone
else got that opportunity. We still get to be both, right.
We still need to feel bad. You know, you to feel that And
we get to celebrate each other awesome.
So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I love it.
Yeah. Very big gear change.
But whatever. We see a guess that has pets.
We always have to bring them up. So do you want to talk a little
bit about Gino and gouda? Okay, Tina Wang, Cuda.
So cool I was going to York. York City, I had to do, you know
is the most beautiful, he's like gray and white, and he's got
this little line down his face, and it's like, red white and his
nose is as pink and black and wants.
So he's just, I love it. He's like, you know, kidding, he
came from New York but Buddha I get gouda after living here in
Oakland for a little bit. So gouda is an Oakland Kitty
Farrell clipped in everything. And yes, he was just like but
you know, really quick. When I, when I went to, there's
this place called, I think it's called, and you can go and,
actually, the cafe, we didn't get coffee, and you could sit
and watch the cats, and they play, and they live in this like
area. And if you want to adopt, when
you get to go in there and meet them, and I saw Buddha like
before we actually got him, I saw he's a little kid and he was
part of like, maybe five other cats of the litter, and they
were all named after Jesus. That was good idea.
There's mozzie mozzarella. It was a look like mind-blowing,
but we got him and the woman the Like look, let me just tell you
something, who does a cat cat? I was like, what do you mean?
Who doesn't really? He's not going to want to be on
your lap not of that. He's all there for other cat.
Sounds like that's totally fine. You know, because we just lost a
cat and Alastair at just passed away and Gino was having a hard
time and we were all having a hard time, but sure enough we
get good at good as all about Gino Gino was like, get off of
me like probably two days and then they were chilling.
But now good. I like to sleeps on my lap.
He's a A human is amazing. Yeah, and I see your cat.
She heard what she heard cats. And she was like, listen, I'm
sorry time. Sweetie.
She's like what the hell? She's like.
Stop turning. I don't want so they've been and
they watch the scary movies with me.
They chose important to have a cat by your side.
For those times, my crew. So they will love it whenever I
watch something that's like a little, like, I don't know
what's going to happen. I always take one of my dogs and
just like hide behind them. Like come sit on my lap.
No, you're good. Just sit right here.
Just means like squeezing them like you're my pillow.
Oh, watch the dog. Not the movie was.
Yeah. But they're good kids.
There's well, they sound precious?
Yeah. Alright, so thank you for
sharing about your little fur babies.
We are going to transition into a little rapid fire session but
we like to do with our guests, would you rather kind of
questions session? You can explain your answers if
you want it would not leave it a mystery.
All right, ready over here to jum.
All right, ready? Okay, first question, would you
rather get It a haircut from Tony Chapman or Max.
Tony dancer opportunity to reconnect.
Yes. Oh my God Verde and Tony
haircutting seen that before. Yeah it's amazing.
The our didn't want to say the second part of it but I'm going
to put it because I wrote it. So this the other two options
for that was Gino or gouda. Oh my goodness get a haircut
from Jen has been with me the longest so he yeah there's more
I trust there is a lot of trust there.
Yeah, I'm actually supposed to ask is this
yourself, would you rather? You get the sex talk from
granite or Carson both. I'm just saying, can we do both?
Yes. Absolutely.
I'm all about being inclusive and hearing everyone's input on
the situation. Now Fiora, added two characters,
plants or mr. Chapman.
Mr. Chapman because he's a cool bag.
He's like okay. He is cause yeah, yeah.
Remember. Did he do the egg?
The whole egg conversation. Yeah.
That's that's why you were here to hang out with everybody.
I know. Yeah.
Okay, would you rather be a comic book writer or a picture?
Comic book writer. I like that.
That's a great question.
Thank you. That's what I would cheer.
You tell we have no fun on this podcast.
But it was so great. Talking to you meeting, you
getting to know you so much better.
Do you have any final words for all of our listeners at home
before we wrap up? Just thank you.
Thank you all for supporting the show.
Thank you for, you know, support and all the characters, you
know, it means a lot to us, you know, the writers.
Everyone who's a part of the project, the support means a lot
to us. So, thank you so much and I
would say, again, find your people and do that for someone
else. And also advise you are freaking
amazing. So thank you.
All usually was thinking like, thank you for being on the
Frontline. Thank you for like being out
there. Talking about these issues and
putting your time and energy and heart into this because it's so
important and it's just important.
So thank you. I really appreciate hearing
Matthew. We do.
It's like it's it's our pleasure and it's also So we get to talk
to people like you, so it's we get as much as we give.
I feel like this is my favorite thing to do just in general.
I wish it was a full-time job. Yeah, we like, can we quit our
jobs already? I mean, I understand maybe, you
know, you all have such great energy and it's such a great
show that keep making moves and and I got it.
Because it's possible. She's over at this.
Yeah, sure great. It's always great to hear.
Like people actually liked it and I don't know.
Just, that just actually having something that we do mean
something. That's always what I want to do.
Absolutely. So that's why I love it so much.
But to everyone at home listening, make sure to check
out a leave of their own if you haven't already, I don't know.
What's, what's wrong? What's wrong with you?
But like not watching seriously, what's wrong with you?
Because seriously, it's everything.
And follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Lee underscore
Robinson underscore. Now, I'm going to spell it for
Theodora, don't have to spell it Caitlin, just say it, just say
it. That's usually it's just me
angry. Oh that's what's so amazing
about this show, you always carefree and we're very lucky
that we met each other. Awesome.
Thank you so much you for being here.
It was amazing. And she hi we hope we'll see you
again but we don't need a reason.
Thank you be safe. All right, take care of
yourselves and each other and till next time.
Yes. All right.
Bye y'all. And with that we've been big gay
energy, if you liked this episode check out all of our
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until next time. Stay safe and hydrate for
lesbian Jesus.