Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Theora.
And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the Big gay agenda
today? Today we're going to be talking
about fandoms because we're in a time with the ongoing WGA SAG
strikes. So in lieu of talking about a
specific piece of media today, we're going to explore.
And so, to stay in line with, in solidarity with all of them, we
are shifting our content a little bit until those wonderful
creators we love so dearly our paid livable.
Fandoms and what the fandom life is like.
So fandoms are something that's becoming more accessible thanks
to the Internet and something we've all participated in.
And if you're new to fandoms, we're here to explain the good,
the bad, and everything in between about fandoms and
participating in them. So before we jump into our
experiences, I first wanted to start by defining what a fandom
is. Because not everybody knows,
like it's a term you hear. Talks around maybe, or if you've
heard it for the first time recently.
So let's talk about what it is and how it's different from just
being a typical fan. So a Phantom itself refers to a
community of people who are passionate about something,
whether it's a TV show or a film, which is like primarily
our media, but it can be like a band and artist, a sport.
It can kind of be anything, really.
But the keyword here is community.
It's a community of people. And so the thing that separates
a fan. From a fandom is that people in
Phantoms usually spend a significant portion of time and
energy involved with their interest as part of a social
network, and fandoms usually operate as this kind of like
subculture of their own, with their own unique name and
internal hierarchy. So that's social networking is
really what's different than just a fan of the media artist,
whatever, so. How did fandom start?
I've always wanted to know the answer to this question and so I
did some digging into it and I want to ask you guys and see if
you had to guess what is the what was the first modern fandom
like? What was it centered around in
like what time period this was news to me when I looked it up?
Modern how? Modern What are you talking
about? Which century within the last
couple 100 years? Modern so not like in ancient
Greece like. OK, all right.
I'm not modernized in 2000s. What?
Not modernized in like my lifetime.
No, not in your lifetime. It's beyond your lifetime,
Modern. OK, hold on.
Does it involve classic films? No, surprisingly so.
Fandom. This is just fandom in general.
This is the first fandom when networking was.
Knitting. Oh my God.
Actually, you know, you're probably right.
Like Patch, I don't think that was fandom activity.
That was more big craft circle. I don't know that was.
More so. Women's work, We call that a
fandom. I will say it was centered
around a book, I'll tell you that.
Oh, OK. This was surprising to me, but
also not surprising. No, Shakespeare ended up more in
like the academia realm. Not so much a fandom independent
group, the here's for. Bible in.
My brain it is no, I guess. Is it American literature?
No, not American literature. Jane Austen.
I don't know. That's a good guess.
That's my fandom. OK, the Jane Austen.
Fandom is still thriving. In terms of the longest running
fandom, I'd argue the first fandom is the thing.
So the first modern fandom was centered around Sherlock Holmes.
This makes sense. I know it made sense.
OK, so if you're not familiar with Sherlock Holmes, the
original body of work, it was a book series written by Sir
Arthur Conan Doyle. I've actually read it.
It's phenomenal. The fandom part came about after
Holmes was killed off in one of the books and there were public
demonstrations of mourning over Sherlock Holmes and I saw images
where people like created fan art of of Sherlock and would
post them on telephone poles. So like that's where it started
and it was a clustered in parts of Great Britain that was
considered the first fan of because of the public
demonstration of this group of. People about this piece of
media. So the first fandom came about
in the 1890s. Find people of this like on mass
scale. Like we people.
We've always been like this. We humans.
Yeah, no, no, totally. So that's the first modern
fandom. The the olden day fandom.
Fire obsessed. Yeah, No, for real.
I mean eating fire, like, yeah, you want to talk about old like,
OK, the gods, that's like a fandom, that Aphrodite.
My fandom. No.
No, for real. And that's why, like, I stuck
with the term modern because like, yeah, this could be
centered around everything and we don't have like historical
documentation. But yeah, you could, you could
argue that. Absolutely.
But our first like. In context of what we're talking
about and like the fandom, we're going to fandom definition,
we're going to explore like Sherlock Holmes was the first,
it was a book series that was the first like fandom fandom in
modern times. And so since, like the early
1900s when this started, when this started happening, after
the quote, UN quote death of Sherlock Holmes.
The first fan fiction was actually written about this too,
because people were upset about the ending and wrote their own
fan fiction. So like in terms of what a
fandom means to us today, this is really where that started.
There was public art and fan fiction happening because of
this. The book.
We had to fix it. They had to.
Fix the ending. This is like our need to like.
Say I reject the cannon because it's killing me.
They didn't try to arrest Sir author Conan Doyle like the Fans
of Killing. You've tried to arrest the
lawyer deal. So it's not the same.
It's not the same we'll get, we'll get to our fandoms later.
But I just want to go through the history of fandoms.
It started started there early 1900s.
Then it started like bleeding into other like mostly book
genres or where that kind of fandom kept going.
So, like science fiction. Work was becoming big.
Westerns were always a big thing, so there was phantoms
popping up centered around that in that genre.
And in the 1930s is when they started formally organizing like
in bigger groups and started holding annual conventions.
So this is going to sound familiar.
One of the first ones is at the World Science Fiction
Convention. So they started having formal
groups of everybody getting together and in those groups.
These fans and the fandoms started creating their own
vernacular, referred to as fans speak.
So like their own language was cropping up, centered around
this thing. So it took about 30 years for
that to start happening. So first we had the art, the fan
fiction, and then we started getting our own language and
conventions about like 30 years after.
And over time, fandoms kind of spread from books.
Into other pieces of media. So like comic books became like
the next big thing and then we got comic cons which still
exists today and are huge, massive events that happen where
fandoms group in person. And so I'm going to split off of
that and kind of talk about generally speaking if fandoms
evolved as technology evolved because the whole thing is
social networking, right, and the tools we have at our
disposal will impact. Our ability to do that.
So remember we started in the 1890s up to like 2023, which is
where we are now. So like, travel change, like air
travel became more accessible. So people were able to create
cons and get across country to a different country to meet each
other versus like, I'm mad about this, you're mad about this.
We're in the same village, let's put this on a telephone pole,
which is how it started. So air travels.
Are so weird because I my whole life is social media and like,
that wasn't a thing. I know, I know.
Continue. Yeah, we'll get to that.
This is even, this is pre social media.
Social media is the thing that really changed everything but
air travel. So just physically being able to
get to the other people in your fandom, that changed everything.
Telephones, just having a telephone and being able to keep
in touch with other people across distances, that changed
everything. So instead of just meeting up
with people once a year, you could regularly communicate as
telephones became something in everybody's home.
And then the Internet. I'm talking pre Internet, like
just dial up www.whatever, AOL chat rooms early Internet.
So early Internet gave us virtual forums to talk about one
specific thing. You'd have websites dedicated to
your fandom, you'd have chat rooms dedicated to your fandom.
So it's another way to like, put everybody in one spot virtually
and communicate with people in your fandom virtually.
And then from there, fan fiction sharing became a lot easier
because you could have blogs dedicated to it, you could have
to get a website dedicated. This is pre AO3 where we had
other avenues, but like same concepts.
We have that innate desire to like share these things, write
these things and it became accessible to people.
But in early Internet you had to seek it out.
It wasn't coming to you like you had to go be like passionate
about a thing, go look for it and get involved with it.
I'm sure Bree can understand what that was like.
I understand what that was like. You had to seek it out?
Yep. You had to go find it.
So at that point in time, early
Internet time, so I'm talking like late 90s, early 2000s, like
basically it was kind of the same thing like where like you
had to be very invested and have to want to put the time in and
go seek out the fandom like it was on the individual to be that
passionate. The thing that really changed
fandoms into what we're dealing with now is social media,
because social media became the main hub of all of these things.
OK, so instead of going to a specific website, instead of
going to a specific blog, it all kind of exists in the social
media platform. And so while conventions exist
and those kinds of things, social media removed all those
barriers. No chat rooms, no blogs.
Everything just migrated here. And so fandom hierarchies still
exist. Like the people that own the
website, the people that run the fandom, like monitor all of that
stuff, create the speak together that exists.
But now you have people who have never interacted with a fandom,
aren't seeking A fandom, come across these people when they're
like just casually engaging with the material.
And so there's a lot of like friction happening now in modern
fandoms because you have people who don't understand fandom
etiquette. Who are not on the same level,
interacting with people who otherwise really kind of
cloistered off in their own world, who were passionate
enough to seek it out, creating their own community together.
So it's like you almost don't know the what are the rules
anymore. It's there's there's this like
friction happening because now it's just so accessible to
people who are casual fans who accidentally get into a fandom
and then. Things kind of change and you
can get things like like phantom culture is definitely changing
because of that. But it also has a darker side of
like bullying and drama that's happening when these two worlds
are kind of colliding with each other and partially due to
social media. And that is where we are today.
And that is why we're going to talk about the good, the bad and
everything between of what phantoms today are like.
So now that we've gone through the brief history of Fandoms, I
turned it over to you guys to ask.
What fandoms have you been a part of, and what was your very
first fandom go, Caitlin? I was going to ask.
If you wanted to go first since your no already asked first.
All right. So I was trying to think about
it. I think I've only really had
three fandoms. I was going to say 2.
Then I remembered my actual first one.
And I don't know if you guys would know about it.
But when I was in like 4th grade, Hannah Montana was a big
thing. There you go.
And who is Hannah Montana but the incredible Miley Cyrus who
is living her best life. But she had this whole fandom
that I guess her people created called Miley World, where you
subscribe to it and you would get like stuff in the mail and
you get access to things. There was a Song Contest.
Actually, I think Sabrina Carpenter, who just opened for
Taylor Swift, was a part of it as well.
And yeah, so I guess that would be my first fandom.
There was like trading cards and with stickers and everything.
It was insane. I'm pretty sure my parents were
so happy when that was over. So when was when?
Yeah. When did that happen?
That sounds like a fandom of our childhood where like you'd be
like in a fan club. Yeah exactly.
It was. It was like that.
It's organized and there's prizes and like engagement.
That sounds like a pre social media one almost, yeah.
Even radio like fandoms back in when they had radio shows did
that, yeah. Totally.
I want to. I'm.
I'm just looking it up real quick because I'm actually here.
I'm just curious. Yeah, like I want to know what
time period that was because may have been early 2000s or
something. I don't know.
It was definitely, I'm thinking like 2007.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Well, I mean, I just found an
article from 2008 about it. So definitely 2007, 2008 ish.
2007, 2008 makes sense. What other fandoms have you been
a part of? OK.
So now the other one, and this is thanks to actually I don't
think I was like online as much until like halfway through the
show. But I mean we've heard me talk
about it a couple of times, Pretty Little Liars, right,
right. Right, right that.
Was I started that show in 7th grade and we just continued with
it and. They were very, very active on
social media and like getting people together.
They would I I feel like they were one of the first people to
start the live tweeting thing because one of them was just
like, hey guys, this is what we're going to do.
And it just made, I did many, many, many, many projects about
this in college. So that's why, like, I know some
of the dad, I don't remember most of it, but I do know like
they were like. A big leader in like how to
utilize social media for the show because it actually did
help blow up the show even more so.
That was fun. I can't fully remember
everything but that you. Were in by Nona Herb too.
Yeah, that was, that was my last one that I was going to get to
the. That one was the most recent and
I just basically went on Twitter.
They had this like. #Erper greet thing where you
just introduced yourself and basically all the erpers just
adopt you immediately and just bring you in.
We'll talk about it a little bit later, but that's when it's
still good. And then it can fandoms change
after a while as well. Yeah, so those are my three main
ones. Gotcha.
All right, well, my journey started way back in 1997 with a
little show that no one's probably heard of at all called
Buffy the Vampire. What is that?
Well, technically if you want to get.
Real. Technically.
It started with the movie that starred Christy Swanson.
Yeah, I did because I watched that and I remember being
obsessed with that movie and watching it over and over and
over again. And then when the series came
out, I knew I I don't think I had this the channel that it was
coming on and so I had to ask my cousin all the time did you
watch it? OK, so what's it what's it like?
And that was the first few episodes and then afterwards I
got access to it and then like like Theora mentioned you had to
go out and seek the. And let me just make it really
clear this is time period where people didn't have Internet in
their in their houses like regular like regularly
especially in more kind of middle of the country places.
So once we got Internet that was readily accessible and it was
dial up so you got to hear the noise every time.
I found the Buffy fandom and got involved.
Not as much at first, not as deep at first, but there was a
message board called If anyone remembers this comment it in in
the comment down below because or let us know the kitten, the
witches in the bad wardrobe. This was a Willow, a Willow and
Tara message board where people just posted a plethora of fan
fiction discussions, everything in between.
And I spent a lot of time on there reading a lot of fan
fiction, one of which I will have, you know was published.
And I actually have the book. So it's a really cool book.
It was an A U Willow and Terror fan fiction involving a like
stalker killer dude, But Oh dear.
It was actually, it was a really good story.
I read it multiple times before she had to pull it off after it
was published. So that was the first one and
the first one, and I really, really, really got into it.
Can I ask a question? Yeah.
How do you? Create a chat for does that
message board, Message board. Well there were templates to do
this all over. So you just build a website
basically and then you you there were there were also places that
hosted message board so you could go and form your own
message board just based on their website like you just
created your own there. So.
This is what we mean when we say you had to seek it out.
You didn't go to liketumblr.com or like buffy.com.
Like you had to find the website that was hosting this, like the
specific one. Yeah, and Google existed, right?
No. Well, I mean Google exist.
I'm not gonna have a Google search engines of.
Jeeves. Yeah, search engines existed.
They weren't that great yet, but yeah.
You could find the stuff if you basically you had to kind of
find somebody who knew. Yeah, you had to be determined
is the key here. Like, you wouldn't just like,
put it into a search engine back then and find it immediately
because there's no out, there's no like algorithm really in
these things. And so you had to like it might
take you a few clicks to find what you're looking for.
Yeah, it no, like you had to be determined to find these things.
I would have been great at this. You would have.
But after that, I've got OK. When I really got into the
community aspect was when Kennedy came on to the show, so
I happened to join the only EI Limone message board that
existed. And so I kind of got in on the
ground level and I was part of the little we were called the
Watchers. So it was like a little mini mod
team. Who are like sort of the
everyday users that got to the kind of like moderate things.
And that's where I met this circle of friends.
And as queer people do, we all dated each other at one point or
another. There, there you go.
There's your hierarchy and there's your social connection.
Yeah, so I ended up moving to be with.
The longest, like the longest, my first real longest
relationship came out of that fandom.
So there you go then. I mean, we even got the the mod,
the website, the message word moms even sent us because they
were in contact with the actress.
They sent us all of the little watchers.
Autograph with a personalized message from her and stuff like
that. It's cute because they didn't
tell us what they were sending us.
They were just like, we're going to send you something.
And then it was like a joke. What do you like?
What do you. I was like, oh, is it a pony?
And so the mod moms sent me a print out of a pony as well as
the autograph. So there's the good part of the
community we found like. You know, really friends like
some, I don't think I speak to any of the you have to remember
this was in 2001, two 2004 through 2005 maybe.
So I don't really talk to any of them anymore.
But then after that there was some space where I wasn't doing
any phantom stuff and then I I will say the next fandom.
I was kind of on the outskirts of fandom, like would get in and
then get back out the significant one that I want to
skip all the ones that were kind of on the edge.
But motherland really you're. A part of that, for brevity
sake, I will say Motherland was the fandom that I got into the
most, the hardest and. To the point where, you know, I
was part of a group that was relatively well known in the
community and we made this podcast at the beginning for
Mother to discuss Motherland. So that tells you how deep I
was. And I mean I met Theora first on
Tumblr. Because my ass put out a post
saying, hey, I was thinking about starting a Motherland
podcast. Zoom buddy.
Interested. And guess who answered?
Somebody who is sharing the brain cell at the time was like,
I was literally thinking the exact same thing, like let's do
it. I have screenshots of it
somewhere. And then we had like a little
meeting where we were doing like a chemistry thing.
We're making sure that we, like clicked it, went from there and
then. I happened to run into Caitlin
when, you know, doing all of this fandom stuff and she came
on board and made everything better.
I just have a habit of taking control over.
And then we expanded, yes, because obviously shows come and
go and we couldn't just the important message wasn't.
Just motherland. It was actual representation and
queer media. So here we are.
Those are like the most significant fandoms of mine.
I mean, I've been in a lot of fandoms, but those are the most
significant. Yeah, I think that that's fair.
I will briefly go through mine. I think the first fandom I was
ever a part of and didn't realize I was a part of was Star
Wars, because that was and the community was my relatives like
they were. Hardcore into that.
And so like, that was the thing. One of the things actually now
probably the first fandom I was ever a part of.
I'm no, I can't. She's got to go back.
No, I'm sorry, because it goes back to the day I was born.
The first fandom that was a part of is the New York Mets.
I was brought home from the hospital in a Mets uniform.
Baseball is the thing that bonds my entire family together and,
like the New York Mets, is a religion.
In my entire family. So that was the first fandom I
was ever a part of it. It's all the peripheries of
today. But like hardcore knew
everything about it. Like and because me and my
father are very obsessive, we're the same kind of fan where we're
just, we are fandom people like. So yes, it was a big bonding
thing my whole life. So it started with a baseball
team, like immediately since I was born, I was born into fandom
life, like, and then from there, I think.
Star Wars was really my first taste into like media fandom and
I didn't realize it because it was pre Internet and so it was
very much like connecting with other people and also like my
family was very big on it so we would like buy all the merch.
So like that's how it was. Things were accessible to us as
pre Internet. So we would like buy literally
every piece of war about it and like absorb it and then talk
about it. And I read books that kind of
like continued after the original saga ended.
And I didn't realize they were fan fiction that were posts that
were published. Like I didn't realize it but I
was consuming these things. So like I inadvertently walked
into that fandom and like was engaging with it.
But not Internet. This is pre Internet.
My first Internet fandom was Clone Club which is for Orphan
Black. I wasn't.
Super. Like in the hierarchy structure,
I was more like a peripheral participant.
But that was my first taste of what a modern Internet fandom
was like. And so it was a lot of it was on
Tumblr that was like, where a lot of the fandom stuff that I
was used to was happening. I didn't join Twitter until
Motherland when I was forced to because of this podcast.
I don't really like Twitter, but Tumblr was fine because people
were engaging with it the way I like to engage with media, which
is people were analyzing the shit out of it and pointing out
all these things and making these connections because
there's a lot of like. Mythology in there.
And they're like, well, they're using this to symbolize this.
And to me it was just like, wow. It gave me a bigger appreciation
for the piece of work. And I was like, wow, there's
other people that do this too. Like, this is so cool.
So I started like engaging and I made fan art and like, that's
the person I kind of really started participating.
But my biggest fandom ever, where I was known and more of a
contributor, was clowns, which is The Killing Eve fandom.
So I was known on Tumblr for analysis posts.
Like I would write essays about this show.
I got shout outs on podcasts about Killing Eve.
I loved it so much. And the podcast I used to listen
to you for Killing Eve is what made me want to do a podcast
because. The way they would just break
everything down, the nuance, the acting, the way they could shoot
things, why they had mirrors, like all of this stuff, it just
made me appreciate literally every single thing the creators
were doing on that show. Because it's one of those shows
where you just watch it and like most of it can go over your head
because there's like 3 layers to everything that you're watching.
And so when you start peeling the layers back, you really see
the brilliance of it. But that's when I really started
engaging. I was really in like chat rooms
about it. Not chat rooms, but like
actually, yeah, Tumblr had chat rooms at this time.
And I met so many cool people that I'm still friends with
today from this fandom. Like we would get up and watch
it together when it was airing. And so that was like the first
fandom I really participated in. And then from there it was it.
Literally everything after that was podcast related.
So Motherland fandom, where I was kind of doing the same thing
on Tumblr and that's how it ran into free and then.
We were in everything else, like Motherland and all that kind of
stuff, but my big favorite, favorite fandom that changed the
way I interact with media I really love is The Killing Eve
and. By the way, see, I have to tell
you this before I forget, because I'd already forgotten.
I found a new key cap set for you for for your for Julie's
keyboard. It's killing Eve themed.
There's a Killing Eve themed key cap set by one of the major key
cap producers. It's all my mind.
I'm gonna send it to you later. They send me.
Pictures. I want to see it.
I will, yeah. I will always have a very fun
place in my heart. That fandom has major problems.
But like for me, it was the most positive experience I ever had
with a piece of idea. And I've never had the same
experience ever again. Like it was.
It was a special moment in time. All right.
Bree, you were mentioning? Yeah, I forgot to mention one
aspect of and the reason I think this is important is because
it's another place where a lot of fandoms grew out of in the
early days when it first came around Live Journal.
So Live Journal was was started out as a place where you could
go have a journal and then it turned into a hot spot for
fandom activity. And I remember one of the really
big ones that that. I actually participated in on
there was Grey's Anatomy when things got gay season four.
Yeah. So the fandoms had been, I mean
like two of my, two of my, or two of my best friends met their
spouses on Live Journal Fandoms like these are people that that
like are. Living in different countries
from their original country now, because they met people from
across the world, got married and move.
One of them moved there, so. I love that.
The Power of Fandom and Live Journal have a habit of coming
in, coming into fandoms way too late.
It's never too late. I feel like the Phantom's like,
not fully there anymore. Like there's I wish I was
watched. I mean, it'd be really weird if
I watched Grey's Anatomy when it first aired.
I was definitely too little for that.
Also, I was like just missed like thickly time.
I feel like I should have been able to watch it, but I think I
was just like slightly too young.
But it would have been cool to be a part of those when it was
going on. It's definitely a very different
experience, but it is never too late, truly, because there are
there a lot of Holmes still has a fucking fandom been 200 years.
So like, it's never too late, especially if there's a
renaissance of the of the media or it just come the fandom kind
of comes back in a big spike. That's what happened with Glee.
I think I started watching it when everybody was watching it.
So you came for like the second wave?
OK, so now that we've gone through what fandoms generally
we've been involved with there. So we mentioned that there's
like, there's good aspects to it.
There's dark, dark sides of it. We're going to start with the
good. So there's many things that can
come out of a fandom, like some things we've already touched on,
like building community is really the big one, because
that's what separates A fandom from just being a lonely
observer and fan. There can be fun associated with
it, obviously, because you're engaging with people who care
about something you care about. And through Phantoms, like you
mentioned Caitlin, there was like merch and then Bree
mentioned there's like fan fiction writing, there's it's a
different way to engage with the material than just like watching
it, listening to it, whatever the The thing is that the
Phantom centered around and like Caitlin said, like you mentioned
Glee. I'm glad you brought that one up
because it also offers you a way to engage with it and experience
whatever it is even after it ends.
So it's like. It's not just like you watch
engage with the actual media and then when it's over, it's over.
Like it kind of extends whatever the media is.
We're just going to stick with media for the rest of this
because that's what the podcasts about and it makes it easier.
But yeah, if it's like a TV show, like even after it ends,
like you can still engage with the media, which is really great
and I think something that's super, super special.
So I wanted to ask you guys, of all of your experience with
fandoms, what's what's the most positive experience that you've
had with a fandom or that's like come out of a fandom?
This, that's fair. And this and the friends that I
made in the Motherland fandom, I still talk, obviously.
I still talk to some of them, some, the others not.
Not as much, but I mean we really, we built a little family
there for a while. And just like with any other
fandom, things can kind of people fall away and once things
are over, they go their own ways, etcetera.
But yeah, I still have. I have, you know, you guys and
particularly one other friend that I talked to on a very
regular basis that came out of that fandom.
So friends that I've made and also thinking about things in a
different way, Perspectives, gaining perspectives on a lot of
different things, whether it applies to my life outside of
fandom or. Analyzing pieces of media period
was like meeting youth. Theora was one of the first
times I ever met someone and talked to someone like every day
that analyzes media the way I like to analyze media and
actually could discuss it or wanted to discuss it in that
way. Yeah, now.
Those are the positive. Those are like the most positive
things I can think of. Those are all great.
Yeah. The Pod.
This podcast of you guys probably number one thing, but I
have others. You want to go next Caitlyn?
Sure. So, I mean, meeting people are
great. I have like a people from all
around the world at this point. I feel like I go to a country
and feel like, hey, you want to meet up.
I mean, I can even go to Kuwait, see someone.
It's insane. But my favorite thing about the
fandoms is that, one, it allows me to learn other things and new
ways to, like, relate it to things in the fandom.
And so that's how I learned a lot of, like my marketing and
all of that stuff that I get in school.
That's why I did so much of whatever fans I'm in for school
projects, because it helps me be interested in other things.
And along those lines, I love that the fandoms teach people
skills because there's so many people learning how to edit from
this and drawing and all this, these creative skills like
learning to create websites, learning.
I was going to start a con with people.
So like, I was learning everything, how to start a con.
And it's it's a lot of work, but you're learning so many
different things because you have a group of people also.
I mean, I learned how to make a podcast.
The fan fiction, that's another thing, is people learning how to
and practicing writing. I mean, fan fiction is what I
weaned myself on when I was really learning how to write
stuff. But not that I'm that, my gosh,
fan fiction, really. I don't know.
It helped me at least as a writer, because, I mean, the
first thing I wrote, I think was for like Camp Rock and Wizards,
Waverly Place, and it was so bad.
But reading more and then like, noticing, OK, this one's good,
this one's not as good. The writing got better and
better and I don't think I could be anywhere as coherent today if
it wasn't for that. Fandom is a version version of
salons in a way I'm really grateful for.
People, Yeah, I got to get together and share writing.
Yeah. I was going to give my my
example is fanfiction writing because I, you know I'm a type a
perfectionist and if I can't be perfect I can't do it's that
millennial curse kind of deal. And so the writing so many
analysis posts for killing Eve, I got to the point where I'm
like. I have enough to write my own
season and so I did basically. And it was semi successful in a
big fandom, which to me was like okay, maybe I can do this.
And the most positive thing that came out of fan fiction writing
was I got into the blind manner fandom for The Danny Jamie Ship
and I wrote. Like so much.
Like I have still have a hundreds of prompts sitting in
my, like, Tumblr boxes. People would just be like, can
you keep writing? Me too?
Oh my God. Hundreds just sitting there.
But I wrote a significant portion of fan fiction for that
phantom. And one story that I start, I
still haven't finished, but I started writing.
Somebody reached out to me and was like, I want to make fan art
about this. Is that OK?
And I was like. No one has ever done that for me
or wanted to. So I was very flattered.
And so I started talking to this person and we are still friends
today and it's the friend that keep bringing up on this
podcast, the one that transitioned.
And because Rainbow Islands was like a big deal, so like we're
friends and this person lives in Australia and like we are
friends because like they found this work, it resonated with
them and we started talking and we're like, oh, we have other
things in common and like so that was the most positive thing
that ever came out of it. So it's like.
It. Just do it for fun.
Like have fun with it, do whatever you want with the
fandom and like, you know it will resonate with other people.
And like, that was really special, just being able to like
make a friend out of like, a fan fiction, which was pretty cool
for me. I love that.
I'm so happy that I didn't know that they're they reached out
because of your story. That's really cool.
Yep. Makes you feel really good, huh?
Yeah, yeah, I do enjoy fan fiction writing a lot, So those
are some positive experience. But of course there's not
everything's all happy. There's there's a dark side to
fandoms. There can be a lot of toxicity,
just straight up drama. In the era of social media,
there's bullying, harassment, stalking.
I can get up to death threats. Like, it can be really, really
bad. And unfortunately, like bad
behavior from the fandom can inadvertently reflect on the
media and so people may not want to engage with something.
I guess as a casual fan or like who could potentially be a
fandom member if the fandom is exhibiting toxic behavior.
For me, my biggest example is the Bible.
The fans are so toxic. I don't want to be a part of
this. But you know, religion really
does seem like just a big fandom.
It is. It's a cult.
That's why I mean, I call it a cult and I keep.
He's a cult. I keep.
Upsetting people for saying that they are.
Cult anyway, So, like, yeah, but like that kind of perception,
like if the fandom is exhibiting toxic behavior in a public forum
on Twitter and casual people see this, they're like, I don't even
want to watch that, whatever this is because these the people
engaging with it are so bad. Maybe the media is bad so like
it can harm the whatever. The thing is if the people are
exhibiting that. Kind of behavior.
So there's positives like we've talked about about building
community, making friends, all that kind of stuff.
But then there's also like the complete opposite of that where
it can turn people off the media or like, you know, lead to
bullying and things like that. And so have you had any negative
experiences, either personally or something you've witnessed
with fandoms? Of course, yes.
What would you like? To share every single fandom I
have been in, it doesn't matter. And this is true of any fandom.
There are people who are going to be positive and people who
are going to be negative. It's just like anything else in
life. However, it's the groups that
you fall in with and the way you the extent to which you
communicate with a wide range of people that determine what your
experience is going to be. And you can think that you're in
the best like group within the fandom because all fandoms, just
like high school, have subgroups or clicks.
So you can find yourself all of a sudden in a click, not realize
that that's where it was going. Because everyone has this grand
idealistic motivation like we're going to make the community
better and we're going to be the leader in this and that.
And then someone or a group of people within that subgroup
decide that you know, just things go South.
Just like with anything with people, they're going to be
fights. They're going to be
disagreements and it's those have been the negative
experiences for me is either that or larger controversies
within the fandom itself. So either a controversy stemming
from the media or and the people surrounding making the show
cause a controversy within the fandom, cause the fandom to
react in a negative way, or cause negative things for the
fandom or people with different OK, it's all about ships, let's
just put it. It's.
Always. It's such a big, it's always
ships that are fighting with one another or particular character
fandoms. So this has always been the way
and it's always going to be the way.
There's always going to be conflict between people that
ship, you know, character, different characters within a
fandom. Well, the issue.
Sorry. No, you're cool.
The issue becomes when others, when someone's like my opinion's
the only one that matters, right?
Like your ship is not allowed. Like, yeah, OK, ship them with
multiple people. Like, it's OK.
It always goes there though. There's always somebody that
goes there. It's it's always going to exist
and that's fine. It is what it is.
But I said. I didn't like Super Corp one
time. And Boyd, it all helped.
Wow, that Yes, some some ship fandoms can be more toxic than
others. To be sure, let's just be real
about that, because there. Is an emotional investment in a
ship versus other aspects of the show.
And human beings claim to be rational, but emotions will
trump rationality when it is strong enough.
So that's what provokes these reactionary outbursts that are
super toxic and are literally attacking, aggressive, etcetera.
And you have other people there telling you that you're right
and there's a group, you know hurt mentality.
Yep. They're enables.
It's like wars. Does anybody remember that term?
What? What term Like wars.
It sounds familiar because fandom speak has changed since
the beginning of when I got into now because.
Because. But when I was like first and we
had things like BNF, big name fan.
So it was someone who had risen to a certain stature within the
fandom. So you had to someone that was
known by everyone. Like for example, one of the
biggest and most I'd say popular B&F's is was from the Harry
Potter fandom and now has a freaking insanely selling book
series or one or more series. Who has like fan fiction that
they sell in bones that that she was one of the Bnf's in the
Harry Potter fans talk about a fan of that had the most talks.
Oh my God, that was a talk that. Fan is also just like Humongous,
though Humongous and. Humongous.
So that is not surprising. If you have enough people like
you're gonna get that shit. That's gonna happen.
There are is there and they were powerful fandom too.
Documentaries made like YouTube documentaries made about the
conflicts surrounding this person.
Because it was Cassandra Claire. She was accused of and was
guilty of plagiarism in her fan fiction, to the point where she
was lifting entire books and like, putting them as her fan
fiction, changing the names. That's pretty toxic, yeah.
So it's that kind of stuff, you know?
And then people defended her. From like an 8 year old?
Yeah, these are like people in their late 20s and 30s.
Yeah, that's fucked up. It's ridiculous.
May send you guys a link about this.
Yes, please do. It's wild.
I mean any. Negative lobsters are involved.
I've had a whole subset of a fandom pissed off at me, yes.
You have. Yes.
You have. It's not very fun because I had
no control over it whatsoever. And.
Yeah. So it's just, yeah, you were not
the only one and but unfortunately you were the one
that took the brunt of everything because you were the
face. It's not always nice being the
face of things. No, it's not.
It's alright. We get through it with a lot of
therapy and then therapy and food.
Except not anymore, you get. Less of a anxiety attack when
you see the thumbnails. On your own of the social media
sites social media, I feel like it's done a lot of good but it's
done the the accessibility has made it so much more dramatic
because the bigger the phantom because when I joined Winona
Herb I don't know if it was just like the people I was surrounded
with it was fine and then as the last season was going it is
getting bigger and that's when people become were becoming way
more toxic and. The worst thing I see is like
when the fandoms are like broken in the middle and fighting with
each other, like why are you fighting with each other?
Well, I feel like, OK, so this happened with Warrior None.
Yes. Also because the key of what
you're the key of what you're saying here is.
In the last season, because tensions are high at that point,
especially with Winona Earth, because it was like this weird
back and forth of like they kept getting renewed and then they
kept rescinding the renewal. And so it was like this constant
survival to just get the next season.
And so people's emotions are high, they're burnt out, they're
tired, and they're upset that they're losing their show.
And so when we're hurting inward and we don't know how to process
that, we projected outward onto other people and we pick fights
and we just. White people, and we're like,
what's your fault? It's your fault and just attack
each other. And that's what Warrior NUM was
doing. Like everything was pretty great
until the cancellation. And then there was a battle to
save it and it wasn't going well, you know, in the Silence
period where we didn't know anything.
And so then people start turning on each other after after a
while because they're tired and burnt out and their emotions are
running high and like. Especially when it's like shows
back-to-back which we're facing now, so like.
If you're part of 1. Phantom and you try to move on
to another and then it the same thing keeps happening.
So yeah, and then also what was happening there too and like you
said with Winona Herb, is that now more people are involved,
people who weren't in the fandom to begin with and this is the
social media problem. And then you have clashing of
people who understand the rules, don't understand the rules,
understand the culture of the phantom, don't understand it.
And then arguments break out. And I think that's partially
what happened with word or not, because then like other phantoms
are getting recruited like. The motherland people were
getting recruited and they're like, hey, let's team up.
And then you like, have people together that weren't together.
And then they're bonded for this thing that isn't accomplished.
And then everybody starts fighting.
Like, it's just that's what people do.
They just, they project their feelings outward.
And now on the Internet, where there's no consequence really,
I'm like, I can post something super toxic and mean
emotionally, but like, it doesn't affect me.
I just like, walk away from it. But like, it's psychologically
damaging everybody that reads it, so there's less consequences
tethered. To those social media exchanges
so it's easier to just be toxic and like walk away, walk away.
Yeah, And so that's what I want to talk about, because I think
social media is like the worst thing that has happened to
fandoms personally. Because again, the people that
love, genuinely love the media and are seeking it out are
usually are the ones that used to be in fandoms.
Like people who just genuinely love it and are fair enough to
be there versus men trolling women's media.
Because they're like, hey, I can come here and like, be toxic and
make fun of what you're doing. It's easier to do that when it's
on social media and it's accessible.
And part of the thing that has gone away is the barrier between
the fan and the creator, which can be good but can be bad.
And I will talk about the killing Eve Phantom to throw
them under the bus for this, because this was disgusting.
So when killing Eve was happening.
Jody Comer was not the giant household name that she is now
because she's been in, she's won many, many awards, but she was
starting to rise in her career. And so Jody Comer was on social
media when killing you Season one happened, and the fans got
so toxic, they drove this young woman off of social media
because they were so toxic. They attacked her boyfriend.
Like, found shit out about him, stalked him, did all of this
stuff. So like.
There's very real bad shit that can happen with fandoms because
they feel entitled to people's time, or they just take things
way too far to the point where you're in danger, endangering
other people and like they were endangering the actress.
Like mental health and wellbeing so much that this young woman
was like, screw it, deactivated her social media accounts.
So which is super fucked up? Having just like a little bit of
like attacking on social media and like the effect it had on me
and I could never, I never want to be in her position.
But like, I totally understand when people deactivate their
accounts, even if they go away and then come back like, Oh my
gosh, it's it is damaging when you have so many people
messaging you that you're like basically a terrible person.
And like, it's scary if they can find you like you're the people
that you are love and are close to because like, it's your
problem that you put yourself here.
It shouldn't be their issue that they're being found now because
of something you decided to do. Yeah, and like, but like from
the actor's perspective too. Like, it's their job a lot of
the times. To promote their work on social
media. So these people are like, forced
to be on social media to promote their work because we don't
market stuff anymore, We do social media marketing.
And so, like, you're forcing them in these positions where
they're coming up against this kind of, like, psychological
bullshit that people do. And there will be auditions
where they ask you what your follower account is.
Which is ridiculous. It is ridiculous.
She doesn't need that anymore. But, but also you're robbing
that person of. The positives that come with
social media that we've all talked about because now she
that person is being robbed of like the fun that occurs because
the fans took it way too far and bullied the actor off of social
media. And there's another instance for
Heart Stopper where the at where the fans outed one of the cast
members. That's.
Before he was ready to come out because they felt entitled.
To that private information about the actor.
So there's very real consequences and toxicity that
can come out of these groups of people who have high hive
mindsets and just like attack people.
Like I have a friend that was recently like ostracized from a
fandom because of like a critique they posted about the
work and like it blew up. And like this is there's very
real, like consequences to just this, like hive mind bullying.
Type of thing that can happen in fandoms, including the ones we
are involved with now or we're involved with in the past.
And so yeah, so there's good and bad and everything in between
that can happen with this because phantoms are made-up of
people and people are just good and bad and everything in
between. And so one question I want to
ask since we've generally kind of talked about our experiences,
good and bad. Do you think the platform
influences the fandom or the experience?
Like for example, you guys have experience going to cons, so
like in person interacting versus like the social media
interacting, the early Internet interacting, does that change?
Did that change your experience at all, like the like the
platform? OK, so I've been to one con, not
as a fan and. I will say from what I've what I
saw there, it's everyone seemed to be having fun and getting
along there again, it's a lot easier.
But there was also an online portion, which I mean to its own
right was a shit show. But those people were very, very
angry. And like, like again, some of it
is warranted, but to the point of abuse.
So the online and the non non in person.
And an and an oh anonymity, thank you that the online
presence gives you, makes people way more confident to say
whatever they're thinking and it's very hurtful.
But this the small gatherings I definitely feel like.
Are the best. I understand why people want to
go to conventions. I have been to one con and it
was. The same one, The same one, and
I guess partially as a fan and partially not.
Yeah, that would you say? So.
Am I? Yeah.
I mean, yeah. I dragged you into a lot of
things. I mean you.
Moderate a lot. Of things I'm like.
Moderate to some. I helped Caitlin with some
things, not half the things she was doing, because she was doing
a lot of things, I mean, and I saw the effects that all of this
was having on on her first hand. As far as the the negative parts
of of it, she worked her ass off to the point where we literally
had to get her and feed her glucose tablets before she
passed out. I pulled 2 nurses that were part
of the fandom or fandom spouses of part of the fandom to come
back there and take care of her because she was trying so hard
to make it a good con for everybody that she was getting
making herself ill. So we had a great time in some
aspects and another aspects because of that particular con,
not because of cons in general. So I do think it changes, it
changed my perspective being part of the inner workings of a
convention or seeing it from backstage.
So that's the part that changed for me.
And then because all the panels that I was there for to actually
go to were ones that I was moderating.
So I don't have the like the actual just a fan experience of
going to a convention. But it changed it for me because
I got to meet even people that were not.
I was not part of those fandoms, but I knew those actors from
other things. And so getting to meet them and
and hearing their perspectives on things and then getting to
meet the people that were in our own fandom, the actors, because
we had a more unique experience as far as we got to be literally
up close and personal with these actors through like meals and
like hanging out and stuff like that, so.
But. I think that was also very
dangerous, like the conventions, the amount of people like,
especially the bigger ones that these people have to meet.
I sometimes I feel like it could be even worse than.
So the only reason it worked is because it was a small group and
I don't think any. I don't think there was much
like there were many horrible. I don't think that they would
have any bad things to say about their fan interactions as far as
I'm aware. Those particular set of people,
I really enjoyed getting, you know, to talk to them about
their characters and all of that good stuff, But.
I really do think there is a huge difference between seeing
people face to face and seeing them or seeing them online as an
icon. Because you actually have to
deal with the fact that that's a real person in your face and the
interaction that you're having with them is is vastly different
and it can go either more positive or more negative or
just kind of somewhere in the middle.
So yeah. Do you have any experience with
conventions at all? No, I don't, which is why I kind
of wanted to you guys to talk about it.
My perception or my guess based on human behavior would be that
at a convention there is a monetary barrier, which is
unfortunate. So fans that really care may not
be able to go because travel cost cost the convention.
It can cost a lot of money. That's why I volunteer at these
places if you can, because. You get free and admitted it's
into things because I, the others here at the ATX
Television Festival and I got on the social media team, so got to
talk to some of the people to take photos, be in everything,
doing social media for them. So definitely look into that.
Thank you for that advice, but like barriers to getting to the
convention aside, like travel cost, cost, the convention, et
cetera. It goes back to the premise of
early Internet and early fandoms.
You have to want to be there. Like you have to be determined
to be there and care enough to get to that thing right?
And so it weaves out a lot of the casual trolls that interact
in fandoms and potentially make them toxic because the trolls
don't care enough to go in person.
And so the people there are ones who genuinely want to be there.
And so I think there's more of an etiquette because I care
about this. And also, when you're in person,
your social interactions are going to be different.
You can't just spout off toxic shit and hide behind your wall
of anonymity like you were saying, Caitlyn.
Like there's consequences that you will face immediately if
you're going to be an ass hat at a convention.
Like if you're going to take things too far, like you were
saying, Bree, whether it's to an act or to a fan, you're going to
get physically removed by security and you're gone.
That's it. So.
People think more before they say something or act right.
So there's more of that. So I feel like it's a more more
of a safe space for people who care about this thing because
of, you know, the barriers #1 and also because you generally
want to be there to get there versus the online forum.
And I think the online forum, it depends on which forum you're
in, especially nowadays in social media like Twitter is
toxic as fuck. Because the guy running Twitter
now doesn't give a shit and just made it into toxic hell.
So like Twitter is the most toxic.
That's why I don't like that social media platform.
It is just toxic as fuck. Sure, it's easy to use.
Sure it's easy to find people. But it's easy to find good
people and bad people like very easy.
Well, it's harder now for us because you can't see who's
actually verified. Right.
It's just it's it's just toxic. It's mostly toxic people.
But if you go on like Tumblr, which?
Not a lot of people use, but like for fan spaces, it's
usually a lot more like fans who care about the thing.
They're putting their artwork on there, they're writing posts
there. It's more of a like safe space
of in terms of interacting with your fandom.
In terms of based on my experience, yeah, there's toxic
shit, there's troll troll shit posting crap like that, but it's
not attacking you the way Twitter just it makes it so easy
for you to get trolled and like. To get death threats because
there's no like moderator for your bad behavior because the
people who run that platform don't give a fuck.
So like for me, I think the online spaces like can tarnish
your view of the media, your view of people in the Phantom a
lot easier than going to a convention where it's a group of
people that genuinely want to be there.
So you're more likely to have a good interaction with fans in a
convention versus I think in the in the online spaces.
Even though the monetary barrier is not there with an online
space necessarily. So you're more likely to have a
bad experience, but it's more accessible because it's just you
can just log onto your phone and just start fandoming
immediately. So I think the platform
absolutely will influence your experience or the culture of the
fandom, and then you can even take it a step further with with
your. Online fandoms.
If you have a Discord, for example, that's specifically
dedicated to a piece of media, again you have to seek out the
discord, care enough to join it. But it's not that hard to find
those things, and so trolls can usually find it and get in your
discord and like ruin the experience for everybody.
So like and that risk is always there no matter what, but it's
an extra barrier of like you have to care enough to find this
thing that I think helps weed out like.
True fandom people. And by true fandom people, I
mean people who like, traditionally like care enough
to like put the work in and like care about the media versus like
trolls are looking for attention and people who are just looking
just pick fights because they're lonely, they hate their lives,
they're mad about the ship, whatever.
Like people are just looking to take their messed up feelings
and put them on to somebody else.
That's way easier to do in your online forum versus your in
person. Conventions or even like the
group that the fan group thing you were talking about.
Kayla, I don't know if they still do it anymore.
We have fan clubs and they like send you stuff and you can
interact, but it's through a medium that's moderating all of
the stuff and keeping it a safe place and it has pleasant
experience for people. So yeah, I I think the, I think
the platform influences fan of behavior big time.
Yeah, for sure. I think that's just true of.
Do you have anything to add on the discord thing?
Ohh, I'm done. I meant Bray since she's like
runs a few. So I OK the the best the best
Discord fan community that I have been in was the the one
that I started and we I think we we only ever had an issue once
the entire time it was more and it it stayed kind of small as
well so that was a factor But we we had you don't really need
discussions and shared a lot of cool things on there but the the
bigger and different see this was ship based so there were
other discords that I was that I was in from the same fandom that
were very much more toxic and I stopped going in there just
because I knew I was going to see a lot of things that were
just going to upset me in the respect of like this isn't guys
hey this is I know. That me from one of them, yes,
we get very passionate about this fandom because we're
emotionally invested like the OR said.
However, at the end of the day, people need to step away and
realize that they are entwining their negative emotions into
some into a piece of media and a community that's they can walk
away from at the end of the day and just just treat people like
you want to be treated. For goodness sake.
I no understand why that's so hard apparently, but I don't
know. It's just the amount of
negativity and toxicity that I found in certain Discord
communities was so high within this certain fandom.
And then there was the little Oasis of no one is having drama
in this one. So I I don't know, it's just
like it's either. It was either or for me.
And I'm sure there are a lot of them that are in between.
So just like anything, if you put humans in it, they're going
to be positives, negatives, and mixed emotions.
No, humans, we're the problem. It's us.
Yeah, always. So what advice would you give to
someone joining a fandom for the first time?
Don't get so involved that you lose sight of who you are as a
person. Because I have known people who
have done that and I have like my entire life, revolved around
a fandom thing at one point and that was not healthy.
Like, check back into reality at the end of the day, please.
Yes. I would say kind of stay not on
the outside but like like dipped in a little bit so you're able
to talk to people about the show, but like you're not
leading things and. Because that's it.
Make sure that it stays fun. Yes, that's the big thing.
Make sure that it stays fun. Because once you start stressing
out about a renewal campaign or you feel like you're literally
going to war over a television show.
I mean, it also doesn't have to be social media like the fan
fiction. That's what I started with.
Like when I realized that that was a thing.
Oh my God, my world changed. Find your fan fiction niche.
That's my other advice. Find the people that write fan
fiction that that appeals to you and encourage them.
Please comment on writer on fan fiction, writers stories.
People don't do that. And that's one of the main
things that keeps you writing is feedback.
Even if you're saying, hey, why did you do this, this wasn't, I
didn't see this story going this way.
Even if you're giving valid criticism, don't give just
bullshit criticism like. That's not cool, but.
Yeah, I mean. It has trauma from that one.
Tell people what you like about their writing, or their fan
fiction, or the characters. Just that's one of the main
things. If you want more fan fiction,
comment on fan fiction. Also, please respect the people
that write the fan fiction because they don't get paid for
this and they have lives. And also like, OK, as a fan
fiction writer, we do it. Or us first because it's fun.
So like please don't make it not fun because then it stops
because and don't ask every two seconds when the update is
coming. Please don't ask when's the
next. Update, especially if that
person. I don't know whole fish.
I don't know. I got a life.
Yeah. It's like, I love.
I love that you want more of this story, but the more you
ask, the less I want to write it.
Correct. I will delay it.
The more that people ask me that may be like and I know that may
piss people off, they're like, but if I like the story and I'm
saying I want more of it, I'm like, but don't do it over and
over again. We know, like, we know that
there are expectations. Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, I want to look forward to writing.
Exactly. That's not.
Thought I'd get into that too much.
But yeah, have fun. That's really the main thing.
And like everybody said, if that's stressing you out and it
feels like work, you're not having fun.
Remember, nobody is paying you to be in a fandom.
Like it's it is not your job. Saving a show is not on you.
Remember who actually cancelled it.
And to begin with, that's the person who fucked everybody
over. It's not on you to like, carry
the weight of like other people's jobs to make art.
But find your people. Find the people that engage with
media the way you like to engage with media.
Cuz not everybody likes to do the same thing.
Some people like to make thirst edits, some people like to write
novels about everything, like me.
I like to write analysis. I like to look at it.
Some people just like. Like to bother actors.
I don't mean bother actors. Praise them.
They're more invested in the people than the media.
And it's like, whatever your flavor of fandom is, like,
remember everybody in the fandom of the creators, they're human
beings too. And just like the goal is to
have fun and like, get some enjoyment out of whatever it is
that your fandom is centered around.
And so if it doesn't feel like that and it's stressing you out.
Take a step back. Maybe that part of the fandom
life isn't for you. I know we've all had experience
with that, with like, I need to step back from this because it's
affecting me and it shouldn't supposed to be fun.
If you want a safe place, if you want a safe space to talk about
career media, come join our discord.
Because it is a small group and it is a a safe space for talking
about that kind of stuff. And there's a bunch of people
that like to interact with things in different ways.
Yeah, find your people. Because community is the key
when it comes to Phantom, and that's what makes it different
and unique. For better or worse, it was way
to sum it up. Yep.
All right. Any final words before we move
on with our day? Let us know what your first
fandoms were. Yeah, What fandoms affected you
the most and what? Platform I guess was kind of on
because I don't know any of I know there are some OG Xena fans
out there that can tell us stories if.
There's any Star Trek fandom people that have your that one's
been going on for so long. So yeah, all right, cool.
So fandoms. How much would you hydrate?
For lesbians, can I hydrate some and take some away the shore OKI
have to do whatever. You want No, I've got to give.
I've got to give Fandoms 10 because even when it's been
negative, I've learned a lot. So it's been a freaking ride so
far. And I've it's it's been like 20
some odd years. I don't see it ever stopping.
I'm glad I met you guys, so I have to give it 10.
And fandoms are entire life, so it's like hard not to give it a
10 because truth, yeah, there's negatives, but then what is life
for love? That was depressing.
But also like Thanks Caitlin I. Think what we mean is that while
there's a, it's like there's a risk reward, right.
The reward is better than the risk in this yeah, in this case
for sure. And in most cases you can just
when it gets bad, you just step away.
Exactly so. 10 out of 10 from Big Energy team encourage fandom
activity. Just find find what works for
you, because there's there's a lot of different experiences
what? Positive fandom activity.
Yeah, like, just find what works for you.
And there's nothing more rewarding than getting to engage
with piece of media or whatever it is that you really, really
love. Like.
So 10 out of 10 there? All right, That's the fandom.
Life, please. Respond to all of the comments
we asked you to. We're curious.
We wanna know. And until next time, hydrate for
the Jeezy and get it up all over the place.
Bye, bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. If you like this episode, check
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hydrate for lesbian Jesus.