Hello and welcome to Big GAY Energy.
I'm Caitlin and I'm Fiora. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. We are back for another super
fun interview. Today we were talking to the
very talented Becca Grishaw about her debut holiday novel.
I'll get back to you. Welcome to the podcast, Becca.
So good to be here, Theora. It's so nice to have you here.
I'm super excited. So this was actually probably
the only holiday book I read this year, and I'm really glad
you said to us. It was very fun and all my
favorite tropes for For our listeners at home who may not be
familiar with the novel, can you give them a brief summary about
what it's about? Yeah, absolutely.
So I'll get back to you. Is a queer holiday ROM com.
I didn't actually set out to write a holiday ROM com.
I just wanted to write about the night before Thanksgiving where
everybody comes back to their hometown bars and has to see
everybody that they knew from high school.
And that just kind of defaulted then into a holiday novel.
But it is a fake dating, kind of A twist on fake dating.
A little bit different, low spice and coming of age holiday
romance that mostly takes place over Thanksgiving, bleeds a
little bit into Christmas, and is set in my hometown of Geneva,
IL. So deeply Midwestern, deeply
queer, and if I do say myself, do say so myself.
Deeply funny. So.
It definitely was funny. The dialogue was really funny.
I thought the pacing was really good too.
It wasn't ever slow. It was very like, I don't know,
it was good, good time. And I do, I like the
Thanksgiving. People don't center things
around Thanksgiving enough. And it's a good like comedic
setting cuz like you said, Oh no, I'm facing all these people
again. Just yeah.
To me, Thanksgiving is such a more interesting holiday than
Christmas. I don't know there's.
And it's also inherently, at least in my opinion, a more
stressful holiday. And so that leaves so much room
to play with, to create tension in different ways.
It was a lot of fun. Yeah, especially like, OK, so in
the not, we're not going to spoil things, but in the novel
one of the characters has to go to like somebody else's house.
And it's like, it's like, what do I bring, I don't know, these
people. And there is like a stress
element to it for sure. That's super fun.
Yeah, everybody does Thanksgiving so differently and
true, everybody thinks the way that they do it is right.
And, and yeah, playing with some of those family traditions or
not having family traditions and especially in like queer
culture, finding what parts of your family feel correct and
what parts you kind of want to like, step back and opt out of.
And like, does it feel, do those traditions feel right for you as
a queer person or does that only make sense to you in the context
of your own family? Lots of fun stuff to play with.
I feel like I'll probably write more Thanksgiving books because
I just have so many thoughts about it.
Right, It really is a good setting truly, especially like
because this novel was a coming of age story and like everything
you just mentioned is a really good like well, who am I and how
do I fit in the world and in my microcosm of my family too,
which is very fun like to think about.
So I like that a lot about the story.
What inspired you to write this novel other than it was very
fun? Well, I was a ghost writer for
about 6 years. I got my start writing romance
novels or ghostwriting romance novels.
I had never read a romance novel prior to being hired to
ghostwrite 1 and then learned real quick and I honestly had
never really thought that much about writing my own book.
I had done some projects that were, we did a romance fiction
podcast, me and a few other ghostwriters who also were
writing romance and kind of thinking about it a little bit
differently than some of our clients.
But I started posting on TikTok in 2020.
I was a really early adopter and I was talking about
ghostwriting. I was talking about my job as
much as I could, right? Of course, ghostwriting comes
with a hefty Joseph Ndas, but talking about ghostwriting more
as a concept, not the actual nitty gritty of the work I was
doing. And I had a lot of people in my
comments saying, well, if you're ghostwriting these best selling
books, why aren't you just writing your own book?
And, and the answer to that was money.
Ghostwriting is, is guaranteed money.
Writing your own book is a complete gamble, which is why I
hadn't done it. I couldn't afford to do it until
my circumstances were such that I grew my ghostwriting business
large enough to take a little bit of a leap on myself.
And I am anybody who knows me personally knows that I while I
didn't peek in high school at all, I am very obsessed with the
people I went to high school with and what they're up to now
and how they have changed or not changed from when they were in
high school. And so black out Wednesday, at
least that's what I know it to be the night before Thanksgiving
that everybody's drunk in their hometown bar.
That was the setting then the moment that I was so focused on
and yeah, took, took a chance on myself, wrote this book, didn't
really think it would go anywhere other than to my
friends. I and then I instead, I, I sold
it to Penguin in a two book deal and it was on Target shelves
through the holiday season. It was really a whirlwind of the
last couple of years, but I I transitioned from a full time
ghostwriter to a full time author, which is wild.
That's that's awesome. And so since since you've kind
of been through the this like novel debut, I guess kind of
process from a ghost writing perspective, and then from now
as like the author, author full name out there, how is that like
different for you than any like pros and cons like this time
around? Oh my gosh, so many.
So there's a lot about being an author that is just infinitely
harder than being a ghost writer.
Being a ghost writer, you, I always kind of refer to it as
being the nanny of the book because you're given a book in
like an infant state and you have to raise it to adulthood
and then hand it off and you don't get any of the credit.
But you also don't have to pay for it to go to college.
You don't have to, you know, be responsible for the kind of
person it truly grows up to be. You don't have to do any of the
marketing. You don't have to have your face
out there, things like that. And also, if it's poorly
received, you have nothing to do with it.
Your name isn't on it. It's at the end of the day, not
your problem because the things about it that are poorly
received are also probably not decisions that you made.
So that's definitely the biggest, the biggest change is
there's a lot more accountability and there's a lot
more, I mean, obviously personal connection.
It's scarier, it's way scarier, but it's also a lot more
fulfilling. It's so wild even to just see
you hold up a copy of my book. I'm like, what are you doing
with that? Right?
What are you? What are you doing with that
book with my name on it? That can't be right.
Or I'll be in conversations with people and they'll say something
like, oh, Elliott Murphy, the characters in the book, and I'm
like, how, how do you know who those people are?
It feels like that's something I'm not allowed to talk about,
but I am, which is so exciting. It's so incredible to get to
write something that is so deeply personal to me.
And also impacts other people. And to get to talk to young
queer people in the Midwest for whom it's a really important
book. It's been really, really
meaningful. So a lot harder, but also a lot
more fulfilling. Yeah, no, I, I, I can definitely
see all those points. And yeah, like, thank you for
putting another queer book out there.
We really appreciate, especially one that's like happy and fun
and like has good themes about it.
I appreciate. I appreciate that personally.
You know what? Thank you.
Because I think that's something I as a kid, I used to say that I
was going to write the next Great American novel.
I had no idea what that meant and no idea what that meant.
I still don't think I know what that means.
But I have always been a writer. And when I first started writing
romance, I was kind of ashamed of it just because I had come
out of a Lutheran school and I was it just, I don't know, it
felt taboo. And it was also 2017 when I
started writing romance. So the big romance boom of the
what 2020 hadn't happened yet. Book talk hadn't happened yet.
So I felt a little bit more shame that I was writing things
with sex scenes in them and things like that.
But also it was all just like very straight and hetero and and
like sometimes toxic and that kind of sucked.
But writing queer romance. I there people are.
Oh, this is a fluffy read. It's a cute fluffy read.
And in a lot of ways, yes, it is.
But it's also it shouldn't be a radical thing to put out a book
where there are queer people who don't have to justify their
sexuality and they don't and they aren't like grappling with
a ton of internalized homophobia and they just get a happy
ending. Queer people with a happy ending
is is pretty radical, unfortunately still.
Unfortunately, yes. Yeah, so that's what I like to
write. And I love it, and I appreciate
that because you did create, again, characters who are just
people and being queer is just part of part of their identity
and just kind of part of the story.
But the story's a lot more than that.
So I want to go back to something you mentioned at the
beginning. So this story takes place in
your hometown of Geneva, IL. And according to Murphy, in the
book, Geneva has a quote, Microscopic Gacy.
So I'm just curious why you chose your hometown as the
setting of the novel? Yeah.
So when I I grew up, I started coming out as bisexual as early
as nine years old. I knew this about myself as
early as eight years old, but I didn't have a word for it yet
because I had not yet been on Yahoo Answers.
Yahoo Answers really opened a lot for me.
So this is something that I, I have known about myself for a
long time. I have been in and out depending
on my social circles, right? My theater friends all knew that
I was bisexual and my church friends all knew that I was
bisexual because I grew up in a like a very cool church, a very,
very cool church. I'm really grateful for the
church that I grew up in. I don't have religious trauma.
I, it's, it's wild. I'm very lucky, but I didn't
know a lot of queer people or a lot of out queer people.
I had my best friend Connor, who was a year older than me and
he's gay. And so it was kind of him and me
against the world. And some people would, there
were some people who would come out and then maybe go back in.
And then there were also people that I thought, oh, this girl
and I are hanging out all the time and we're like really
physical with each other. And I see where this is going.
And then they're saying, oh, no, no, no, no.
I'm, I'm straight and then years later, of course, they come out
and I'm happy for them. And I'm also a little bit where,
you know, where were you? What could have been right?
What would it have been like to have more of a queer community
when I was in the suburbs and when I was growing up and to not
feel so alone or so different in that way.
So I wanted to revisit Geneva, knowing that it might not look
exactly the same as it did when I was growing up and that maybe
there's more acceptance there then there might have been in
2010, and there definitely is, but it was primarily wanting to.
But think about the people who choose to live in the suburbs
and who are queer. I went to school in Indiana and
then I moved to Chicago, and I live in a very queer
neighborhood in Chicago. And I went where I feel I
belong. And I like writing about people,
queer people in spaces that aren't like the traditional
queer spaces. And I was a queer person in
Geneva, so I wanted to explore that more.
Yeah, I, I and I appreciate that as a, as an American also,
because I feel like they're often for non Americans or I
don't know, people who just stereotype America.
There's always this like, OK, the big city, you had to go to
the big city, you got to go to the whatever that means.
But like queer people exist everywhere.
So I appreciate that it was set in a like non big city because
it's more real. That's, that's a real experience
for so many people. And just that was important.
I mean, I've been a queer person living in Chicago, of course,
but I have also been a queer person living in Indiana, and
that felt very, very different. I also have queer family living
in North Carolina, living in rural places.
And queer people are are everywhere, like you said, in
America and around the world. But it tends to be that most
books and most queer romance novels and queer coming of age
stories tend to take place in New York City, in Los Angeles,
in Seattle. And that's just not my
experience. And I, when I wrote this book,
I, I wasn't trying to like be subversive or anything.
I was just writing what my experience was.
It's not a self insert. I didn't stay in the suburbs,
but I was writing a suburban story because that's what I
know. And it was really exciting and
refreshing to see that there's an audience for that because
yes, I am not the only person who has been queer somewhere
other than Brooklyn, you know, no.
Exactly. OK, so question about the novel.
So one of my favorite aspects is the protagonist Murphy's name
and the origin, which like, let's be real of something my
own father probably would have done.
So where did the idea for Murphy and Murphy's origin story for
the day? Where did that come from?
Because I just love it. I find it so relatable.
Yeah, So for people who haven't read the book, the main
character Murphy, is named after Murphy's Bleachers, which is a
bar in Chicago across the street from Wrigley Fields, a bar that
has been there for a long time and a great bar.
Highly recommend it. And originally when I was
writing this book, I didn't realize that baseball and
Chicago Cubs baseball was going to be such a big part of it.
It's not a sports romance by any means, but there's a lot of Cubs
baseball in there. And I, I just wanted to name the
character Murphy as an homage to that and to the fact that I love
Chicago Cubs baseball. My father does, my grandfather
does, and that's really something important to our
family. So it started as something that
was just going to be kind of a wink to people if, you know, you
know, and then it ended up being a really integral part of the
story. I didn't intend to write this
character being a kind of washed up former softball star from her
high school days who is a big sports fan.
That wasn't my game plan going in.
It just kind of happened organically and I'm really glad
it did because frankly, I would also name my kid Murphy.
If I were going to have a kid, I would absolutely name my kid
after a Chicago Cubs bar. That is something that I would
do and I I really love. There is one scene in the book
where Murphy and Ellie's dad are in the backyard and just really,
really bonding over baseball and over smoked meats.
And that's very me. That's when I talk about parts
of the book that feel like close to home and close to you will
find me where the dads are. That is I, I connect with dads.
I have a lot in common with that.
I am in my woodworking class. I am at the Cubs bar.
I Yeah. It's that I love a dad.
I love dads. So yeah, baseball ended up being
really important to this book and I, I didn't plan it that
way, but I'm glad it is. I love that that was an organic
thing that came up because I'm from the Northeast.
I'm from originally from New York, not the city, but like
suburbs and like baseball, such a huge part of like generations
back culturally. So like I love that element
because it makes it feel it's so real when you have like a big
sports team like that. It's just, it is integral for
everything and it is a good bonding thing.
So I do love that Murphy and Ellie's dad do easily bond over
this thing. And it just, it, it was
adorable. I, I love that part so much.
That was so cute. OK, I have a question for you.
So obviously I have questions. So we we talked recently to
another author who was talking about how like how hard it was
to like name the book, come up with the title.
And so I'm just wondering, like, what was your process for naming
the book? Did it like come to you?
Did it, was it a journey to figure it out?
How did you come up with the title?
Oh my God, it was a nightmare. OK, so you too.
Yeah. So when I first wrote the book,
the title was Blackout Wednesday.
Obviously that wasn't going to stay.
That does not sound like a romance novel at all.
But that. Yes, exactly.
But that was the only thing that I was thinking about, right.
I didn't intend to write a holiday book.
I was so focused on Blackout Wednesday, the night before
Thanksgiving, when it existed just between me and my agent.
The title of the book was Hometown Advantage, which I
loved. I loved that title.
Pulls on baseball, pulls on hometown.
It's good stuff. That title sounds good, but also
still does not sound that romancey.
And there was another book coming out called Home Field
Advantage. And that's also, I mean, the
name of the game. There are only so many titles
for books, right? So me and my editor and my agent
sat on a call with a Google doc looking through the book,
looking for anything and, and just like brainstorming.
And I just kept typing hometown advantage in the Google doc
because I was seriously so out of ideas.
Like I had nothing. And I was also like, I could
rewrite the book. I could tweak this to be like
this and then we could name it this.
My editor is like Becca. No, you can't.
The book is done. Becca.
The book is, Oh, the book is complete.
I would soon, but I was much more prepared to like rewrite a
section of the book to make something fit rather than try to
come up with another title. I was so over it.
I'll get back to you ended up as obviously in the larger sense,
I'll get back to you. These two people veer and then
come back together. We see that also in the
friendship story of this and there are a lot of offers being
made in this book that Murphy doesn't make decisions on right
away. There's a lot of accepting an
offer and thinking I'll get back to you on that.
I'll get back to you on that. So that that's where the title
came from, you know, TER fucking didn't make make the cut.
There were a lot of like bad Thanksgiving puns that we tried
and none of we'd kind of struck out on that.
But I like where we landed, it feels.
Right, 'cause it is a holiday book, but you can't call it like
Jingle all the Geneva, you know, it's not, it's not super
Christmassy. It is Thanksgiving Eve, but it's
not like intensely Thanksgiving Eve.
It's just set at that time. So yeah, I, I, the second book
is the draft of it is with my editor right now.
And I currently have two different titles that I refer to
it as in my head. And I'm certain that neither of
them will end up being the title.
The worst part, the worst part of writing a book, in my
opinion. Well, that's not true.
There are a lot of hard parts. But it's up there.
It's up there. Oh yeah, it ranks for sure.
So basically, don't get attached to the title until it's printed.
Nope. And and I actually talked to a
writer once who was trying to write a book and she was trying
to write a book in such a way that it worked with a specific
title. And I really advised her against
that. I said, you know, you don't have
to take my advice if you don't want to, but that's going to
limit you so much. If you're trying to create
something that looks like what you want to call it, then you're
not, you're not giving yourself enough room creatively to to
make it what it needs to be. And you know what?
I still haven't seen her release that book.
So I don't know. I don't know.
Best of luck to her. But yeah, getting to attach,
it's almost like, right, If you were having a baby and in your
head you had a name for that baby and then you gave birth to
that baby and it was like, Oh no, the baby doesn't look like a
Samuel or whatever. It's wrong.
You have to be able to be flexible.
That being said, you're not marketing your baby, so it's
probably less than that. And if you are marketing your
baby, then I have concerns. Yes, that's a different podcast.
That is a very different podcast.
All right, so the the story is written from, it's like a single
point of view from like Murphy's the protagonist.
You're in Murphy's head most of the time.
I'm always curious why authors choose to do like a single point
of view versus like switching between like Murphy and Ellie
Murphy cat or something. Why did you choose to like Stick
with Murphy throughout the book? I think that this is Murphy's
story first and foremost Murphy and her best friend Kat have a
real narrative arc as well. A lot of romance novels the only
You really care about person A and person B, right?
I think there is at least person A, person B, and Person C in
this book and I I can't even say that the the romance arc is more
important than the friendship arc in this book or that the
friendship arc is more important.
It is a romance novel, but not completely in the traditional
sense, so leaping around perspectives just didn't feel
like an option when it really is.
This is a story about what Murphy is deciding to do first
and foremost, and how she is navigating her relationships as
it feels like everybody else's life is changing and hers isn't.
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think there's one point in the
book where Murphy and Kat are talking about like, I thought
this was a very real moment where they're talking about the
expectations versus reality of they say like quote, friend love
versus love love. So I love that you chose to
basically explore those two things because that you're
right, it did distinguish it from like your boilerplate
romance novel that's very focused on person A person B.
Like you're saying this, this explored not just like romantic
love, but love, love at this like coming of age moment where
Murphy's kind of like figuring out who Murphy is outside of
high school or outside of her hometown or like what all of
that means. So I really loved that
exploration with Kat cuz they also have this very codependent
friendship that's also interesting that they have to
like, learn to like. Yeah.
And that's that's really tricky. And I, I and the cat is a
straight character, allegedly. I feel like you can read her any
number of ways, but but she is straight and Murphy is queer and
they are best friends. And that's something that in my
own life I've had to navigate those friendships that other
people aren't always going to view different types of love the
same way that I'm going to. And there's a lot of and
knocking my own microphone. Sorry, there's a lot of supposed
to when it comes to love and heteronormativity and right?
Are you allowed to have a codependent relationship with
your best friend? I say yes, I say you are.
I think that's just fine as long as everybody is on the same page
about it and you're keeping things healthy, right?
And are you allowed to love your best friend with the same
intensity that you love your romantic partner, but just in a
slightly different way? I say yes, but that's not going
to be the case for everybody. And I think that's also an
answer that's really shaped by the fact that I've been queer my
whole life. And, well, I would say most
people who are queer have been queer their whole life, but
maybe they haven't been out their whole life or aware of it
their whole life. I really have.
I was developing all of my best friendships already knowing that
that I loved men and women and anybody.
So I approached my friendships thinking, OK, wait, is this a
friendship with this this other woman or this other girl?
If I'm in like 5th grade, do I have a crush on her or do I just
want to be friends with her? And that's something that I had
to approach every relationship with through those lenses from a
very, very young age. And so that shapes the way that
I I look at love and, and I hope other people are thinking about
that too. And that's part of it's part of
why, yes, you can read this book is just kind of a fluffy ROM com
coming of age or there's a lot of really big themes about like
queer love and queer friendship that you can dig into.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. That's really interesting.
Like having that lens to look at the world at such a young age,
like it really makes sense. It would shape how you interact,
like going forward in a really like cognizant way.
Because it seems like in the book, like, like Murph, I don't
know that Murphy and Cat. Murphy and Cat were like, aware
that they were codependent, but it came like very glaringly
aware once they started getting significant others that were
like, not going anywhere. And they kind of had to confront
that more and be like, OK, like, let's figure this out.
Everybody's on the same page. Like you're saying.
It was really interesting to see that like in their 20s kind of
thing. Yeah.
And that's something navigating in my 20s.
I remember having a conversation early with my friend about about
my partner and saying like, OK, yeah, he is extremely important
to me, but he's never going to be more important to me than you
are. And you're never going to be
more important to me than he it like you guys are equally
important. And this friend had said, no,
he's like supposed to be more important.
That's OK. And the ideas of importance and
love. And we don't really, we maybe we
don't have to rank people in our lives And how do we commit to
different people with different types of love?
It's just, there's so much that I feel like I have to write 18
books about it. And I, I do wonder how I will
think about it even five years from now, 10 years from now,
because it's something that I, I feel like every book that I
write is kind of rooted in that. And I would gladly read all
eighteen of those books because honestly, like it is, it is
something to talk about. Because currently right now
we're watching a show called Heart Stopper and it's it's a
based on a book series that deals with the same kind of
things. We talk about relationships and
all its forms and how platonic relationships can be just as
important as your familiar relationships, as your romantic
relationships, but conditioned to prioritize romantic ones.
And it's like, why all these relationships are really
important. So I do like, like you said,
that while there there is a romance element to the book,
it's there's a lot more going on with like Murphy and Murphy's
other relationships, even like her trying to figure out her
relationships with her parents as she's like becoming more of
as she's being transitioning into independent adult is also
really interesting because like they've been close knit for so
long. And it's like, what does that
look like when we're not together every single day?
Like that can be scary to navigate.
And so I like that Murphy does go through these changes with a
lot of her her close relationships, not just like
this romantic one she's pursuing, which is important to
me. And I think a lot of romance
novels are just really focused on the two folks who are
involved or more than two, you know, they're all sorts of books
out there. But if we think like standard
traditional romance novel and those books are great, to be
clear, they're they're so, so, so good.
I am just a little bit more interested in the idea of a love
story within the context of all of the love stories that
somebody is in, the love story with their work there.
Because I have a love affair with my writing, I have a love
affair with my best friends I have.
There's so many loves in my life and those are romances in their
own right that can exist parallel to the romance that I
have with my partner. Absolutely.
Oh, so well that I love that point.
OK, something that was brought up in the book that I just, I
just need to ask. So at one point the characters
explicitly state this is not a Hallmark movie.
But but let's say, let's just say I'll get back to you was
made into a Hallmark movie. So do you have any thoughts
about how you would like it adapted into a screenplay or
like Dreamcast or Crew or anything like that?
Oh my God, I would love to see right there is a straight up
like this is not a Hallmark movie.
And it's so funny because I wrote that I love that book.
I wrote that like being like, but and also I wrote that
knowing that there were Hallmark movies on the way that did have
two women in that right. It's that is also such a sign of
when the book was written versus when the book was published is
yeah. I think things haven't
necessarily looked the same, which is great.
I love that. I love that so much.
I and Geneva as a town is a movie set for real.
For real. They actually did film a movie
there. They filmed Road to Perdition
there years, years ago. But it's so I, I, it would
absolutely need to be filmed in Geneva because Geneva is made
for a Hallmark movie. I, I like my, in my head blonde
Billie Eilish was, was Ellie. That was kind of like the way
that she looked, Yeah. That's perfect.
And but Murphy was always really kind of changing as to what she
looked like in my head. It was always, always changing.
And it's funny because when I have posted like what my mood
boards were for each character. And when I posted Murphy's and
the picture that I used of just like off of, you know, some
person on Pinterest that is like, OK, this is my mood board.
People were like, oh, that's not at all how I envision Murphy.
That's not at all how I saw her. Or some people who are like,
yes, that's exactly right. Which is my favorite part of of
writing a book, seeing like how this person looks in other
people's heads. I think it is so cool.
And that something that can be one thing to me can be something
for somebody else. I feel like, unfortunately, most
of my fan casts in this book are like, oh, Kara, Ellie's mom is
my elementary school music teacher.
Missus Kauts, like is right. Like, let's get Missus Kauts out
here. All right, Is she alive?
Let's get that going. You know, I feel like that's a
lot of it. Ellie's dad is Mike Funk, my
friend's dad. You know, like, all of my famous
aren't celebrities. They're just people I know in
real life, which I think is also such a statement to what my
mindset was when I was writing this book.
I wasn't thinking that this would get past my friends.
Whereas the second book, now I can tell you exactly what the
fan cast is for it. You know, which is so funny.
It it now working on a second one, already having a literary
agent, already having the book deal for it, knowing that it is
going to be a book that is on shelves.
I look at it a different way. So Hallmark, if you want it, you
can really have free rein with it.
You got a lot of options, That's what I'm saying.
I mean, I would like to see it. Do you have do you have any in
mind? Did you like picture anybody
when you read it? Good question.
I do like the blonde Billie Eilish for Ellie.
I think that's pretty perfect, but for Murphy, I kind of saw
myself in Murphy was kind of the thing because like Murphy had a
lot of things in common with me. Girls, I used to play sports.
I had an injury that destroyed my career, like family that's
obsessed with baseball. So like I saw myself as Murphy
and I was like, Dang, like if I never left my hometown, like
literally I get this. Like I just saw.
You're in, Put her in. She's the star.
I didn't picture any of my like elementary school.
Like I don't even remember anybody from elementary school
as the teacher, though Cara was just like intimidating.
I saw somebody super intimidating as her.
It's also so funny because you say, I don't even remember
anybody from elementary school and this is the this is the
disease that I live with. I do not understand what it is
about my brain that I can. I would love to sit here and
tell you like all of the elementary school gossip, all of
the middle school gossip, all of the high school gossip.
I, I am addicted to like knowing what everybody is up to and my
brain, I don't know, just program for, for gossip.
I guess I can sit here and be like, well, everybody in first
grade had either a crush on Mark or Brandon.
I was a branding girl. My friend Liz was a Mark girl.
Like it's like, why? Why do I remember this?
Why can't I remember anything important?
But that is, that's what my brain was made for, I guess, was
remembering. Your brains are just like, this
is the information. We're never forgetting this.
Yeah. And you're like, I don't know
why I know this, but OK. Yeah, they're like, would you
like to know your home address? No, I don't have that.
But I can tell you what Michelle's speech was that she
gave for student council president in fifth grade.
Like, I don't know man. Worry telling though because
then you have so much material in your brain already to like
play with so like honestly like maybe your brain was on to
something even back then. That's true.
I think for I, I, she knew she was right in the next Great
American novel. She just didn't know that it was
going to be a gay romance. Right.
Exactly. But it's truly all there's so
much it's just like a patchwork quilt of little pieces of
stories and things that I pick up along the way.
And I feel like that's my second book is a a bridesmaid book.
And so I feel like so much of it is just patchworked little bits
of stories I've heard about other people's experiences at
Bachelorette parties and like, things all like, twisted and
woven together in fun ways. Should be really, really
interesting. So is there anything you can
share about the second book or how's it going?
I know you probably can't say much, but like, how's it going
on the second book? Yeah, it's going great.
It well, it's with my editor right now.
This was the first like full, full draft.
My first draft was a mess. And this was more of a OK, this
is actually like a proper book. So that is set to come out
either spring or summer of 2026. So yeah, that's it's very much
like, think the movie Bridesmaids.
But what if two of the bridesmaids were enemies to
lovers? Again, not Hallmark, but
somebody else. Where's the movie?
Oh, yeah, it is straight up in my brain.
It's Zendaya and Renee Rapp. It is, it is a little bit, Oh my
God, Renee Rapp fan fiction. I, I really.
And you know what the Renee Rapp character's name is?
Renee. I I, I said I won't be subtle
about it. I know exactly what I'm about
here. I cannot wait to share this with
my Co Thought she should be sad she missed this.
Oh my God, that's so exciting. Oh, that's OK.
I'm really happy for you. I'm glad that this journey has
been going really well because it can be scary to like put your
name out there and put your, your, your little baby out in
the world. So I'm glad that this seems to
have in a positive experience, at least from what you're
hearing. It feels like it's going great
and it feels illegal that it feels like it's going great
because that's not how it's supposed to go when you're an
author. It's supposed to be.
And I mean, let's not front, right?
I say, Oh my God, it's incredible that my first book
was on Target shelves and it's such an important and it's set
in my hometown and like that is all true.
And also I wrote about 50 books before that for other people.
So it is my first, first book, but no, it's not at all.
So I do have to give myself credit there.
But I think the thing that feels the coolest is just that.
Like I said, I wrote this queer Midwestern book just because
that's who I am. And it's so surprising and
delightful after pretending to be other people for so many
years, to be myself and to have that not only be enough, but to
be so celebrated is it's it's such a big stamp of approval of
like, oh, you are enough. And that feels wild.
I didn't know that my book would be released in the era of Chapel
Rone Penguin saw something coming that I did not see
coming. But at a time when like queer
Midwestern voices are celebrated, it feels so bizarre
because that was something that made me so different for so long
and and something that I only shared in specific social
circles because I wanted to protect myself.
And now it's something that I can loudly be.
And that is great. And a Big 5 publisher is excited
about that. That is so wild.
And also proof that no matter where we're at, there are there
are places and spaces and people who want and need those stories
and are going to celebrate those stories, even in in mainstream
spaces, which is the most important thing to me.
I'm get that gay book in mainstream spaces because that's
the only way that it gets normalized.
Yeah, that phrase would commonly say is that representation
matters is for that very reason. Like if you're a kid growing up
and you, like you said, I didn't have the word for this.
I didn't know what it was like, just having the language, having
something where like me or like, oh, I see myself in Murphy.
If I had this when I was younger, like that could have
changed my lens through the way I see the world, like you were
saying earlier. So it is very important.
Just. Do it.
Get it out there. Yeah, somebody needs it.
Somebody needs it. Yeah, that feels good.
Well, Becca, that was those are the questions I had for you.
Jay, thank you so much for chatting with me and, you know,
telling me about your thought process, the book, the hopeful
Hallmark adaptation. We appreciate hearing all.
Starring Fiora Starring Fiora Sorry to talk over you, but
Hallmark call her, call her. I'm ready.
Let's do it. Yeah.
Before we sign off for today, how can our listeners at home
like, follow you, support you? Yeah, I'm B Griz on just about
everything. B EE GRIZ, if I may, on all of
the social medias for hopefully a while.
And if not, I'm on sub stack. My sub stack the pit is because
I stay in that writing pit. That's what I call it when I go,
right? I'm like, I'm going into the
pit. So there are essays there and
lots of like queer joy and chaos all over the place.
And if you see me walking around Chicago, say hi.
And pick up a copy of. Yes, yeah, you'll.
Like this? You'll like it.
If you like me, you'll like it. I promise.
Yes, all right. Well, thank you again.
This has been super fun. We really appreciate it.
So, and everybody at home, please follow Becca, get the
book, and until next time, hydrate for lesbian Jesus and
get it up all over the place. Amen.
Yeah, bye everyone. And with that, we've been Big
Gay Energy. Thank you for listening.
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