Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Theora.
And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda
today, Theora? Today, the most important item
according to our Lord and Savior lesbian Jesus is High School
Musical the Musical the series season three, which is so many
words. What do you mean it's normal, is
it? Though, I mean, I've been saying
it for like 4 months now. So yeah, I mean halfway through
the show, I suppose it is normalized.
But yes, we are continuing our discussion on High School
Musical the Musical, the series. This episode is gonna be
dedicated to season three. So if you've never seen it
before, probably go back in A watch it and then B, go to our
other episodes about season one and season 2 and then come back
here. I don't know why you would start
on this episode for your very first big gay energy episode,
but hey, welcome. We're happy to have you.
All the seasons are so different.
That is true. That is true.
Maybe you're just a fan of gay summer Cam.
No judgement. Maybe you're just a fan of drama
over two week periods. No judgement.
Maybe you just really love Frozen.
No judgement. So welcome.
We're glad to have you here. But before we jump into all of
that, I think we need to do a bit of quick housekeeping before
we dive into all the big Gay agenda stuff.
Yes. So if you're watching this
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It really does feel like an in flight safety commercial.
Yes, thank you for flying Big Gay Energy Podcast.
We hope to get you to your destination of queer joy and
good representation. So where's this flight headed,
Caitlin? You're headed two I believe
Southern California. We are out of Salt Lake City
now, Woo, and we are going to Camp Shallow Lake.
What a name which I can't. Figure out if it's just a
musical theater camp or because they talk about how all the
counselors are just sports people now.
So I'm like, is this a musical theater camp?
Do they, anyway? Yeah, it's very weird because
the way like EJ talks about it doesn't match the actual camp
vibe. So it's weird because like you
think, Packer just said. Like, but I don't know.
Anyway. Anyway, who do we meet at summer
camp? Caitlin.
We are introduced to Maddox. And of course, I had to name her
first, because again, we've already stated my bias in the
first episode. Yes.
Jet, Maddox's brother, and Val, one of the camp counselors.
And a queer awakening for us on one.
That was also important if we need her.
We do need her jet. I could do without, but we need.
Both of those women I warm up to jet later, but yeah, in this
season I'm good. There are actually quite a few
new additions in the season, so honorable mentions go to Emmy,
Alex Dewey, and unfortunately, Alex, no, not.
Alex. It wasn't supposed to be Alex.
Alex. Alex, you're great.
Alex is Emmy's friend. Oh, unfortunately Channing oh
darn, my. Oh.
The filmographer, dude. Yeah, that dude.
That dude who wants to cause everybody's life to be ruined.
Oh, and then we also have Corbin that I keep forgetting to put in
there. But who cares about the adults?
I mean, they cared about him anyway.
So, so wait, so basically this is the season quick recap.
So in this season they're at summer camp like Caitlyn says.
And basically it's like over a two week period that the summer
camp happens. And the special thing going on
at the camp is that Corbin landed a reality show where he's
like the host of this camp for some reason is putting on Frozen
the musical before anyone else gets the rights, the Frozen the
musical. So they're trying to document
the kids putting on this play, but then it turns into like,
wait, it's a reality show, so it can't be like a true
documentary. It's supposed to have a bunch of
drama. So they try to instigate fake
drama for TV, which sounds really weird because it's a
Disney and they plug Disney Channel like multiple times,
It's gonna be on Disney plus Disney plus Disney plus.
This is where I felt like I was watching an ad for Disney on
Disney and I was like, why are you doing this?
But like, that's not on Disney brands.
So I'm like, this doesn't make any sense that Disney would sign
off on this shit where they're like, no, we want it to be
cutthroat drama. Cause like, in what universe is
that a Disney show? Like it's so weird.
Like why did Channing be like? Yeah, that's what Disney wants.
I I forget what it's called, but they tried to do a reality show
with kids. I think they might have been out
of camp too. Making them cutthroat.
People I don't know. I didn't watch it, but it was a.
Thing. Does that sound like what Disney
would put on their platform though?
Like plus. Maybe Disney Plus is getting
weird so. I mean.
Season four, it gets so like, there's just like more there.
It's not like to the point where it's not Disney anymore, but
like they're getting more adventurous with some things, I
feel like. I guess, but I feel like
Channing doesn't know what channel this is going to, like
what streaming? Platform is going Dance Moms is
on Disney Plus. I mean, it's not a Disney Plus
show, but. But like for Disney Plus, to be
the producer, which he said many times it just, it feels like
that's not the vibe they want. They want wholesome shit.
So like, it's very weird from the beginning where he's like,
yeah, no, this is what we need to do.
And I'm like, that's not that doesn't sound like a Disney
direction to me. Like, sounds like you don't know
understand the project. But of course it comes together
at the end of it's wholesome because that's what Disney is.
So anyway. But that's what this season is
all about, basically. Is it wholesome?
It's Disney wholesome. OK, I would like to talk about
someone near and dear to my heart first.
I know. Yes, that asshole near.
And dear to my aunt Angina, near and dear to my therapy bills.
Go ahead though, Sorry. Good.
No, I would like to talk about Maddox.
Please do, because the more I think about her and the more I
watch of her on the screen and just like, fully understand who
she is as a person, the more I come to love her.
So Maddox is the stage manager and has been going to camp with
EJ and Nini every summer. Nini's not here.
Yes, thank God we've second of the way.
I skipped her every time she was on screen this season because
she's not with them at summer camp.
It's like a select group that went to camp of the Wildcats and
Nene was not one of them. Nene fucked up and is doing her
own thing. Yeah, they got rid of.
I mean Nene was still in it like.
Very little. They're phasing out Olivia
Rodrigo so she could go become Olivia Rodrigo in the real
world. And then I hate the part in the
beginning where they're like, oh, Ricky's doing his own thing
and it's like, cool, we're not going to have him either.
And then by the end of the first episode, he shows up at camp.
And I'm like, God damn it, we can't get a break from you two
one season. I wonder who's gonna be the male
lead. This is a mess.
Like there's only one. No.
Well, yeah, technically, but no. No, but I mean like in in the
realm of High School Musical, the musical series.
Like there's can only be one man who's actually gonna be cast as
the lead. And it's always Ricky.
Anyway, poor EJ. He got real screwed this season.
I feel really bad for him. Not gonna lie, he got fuck.
Sorry, I know this is the Maddox section, but.
Oh, no, no, no, it's fine. OK, So, OK, now the team just
brought up like a couple things. Sorry.
Put Maddox on hold real quick. So sorry, Maddox, Sailor, you're
amazing. OK, so yes, EJ I feel like after
last season, like he just keeps getting hit and hit and hit with
more stuff. Should we just talk about E JS?
OK, real quick. OK, so yeah, here's how the
beginning of the show OK, I have things to say about season
three, 'cause I'm just like, it's two weeks.
Keep this in mind and I'm just like, this is so absurd, but
teenager brains who don't conceptualize time very well
because they don't. So anyway, like, it's like EJ,
Gina, Carlos. Who else is in the car?
Ashlyn. Ashlyn.
It was just them, right? They all drive together.
OK, Sorry, sorry. I'm just.
I'm trying to picture into my brain.
It's a little fuzzy how. Could she not name Ashlyn?
First guys like, I was like, I was looking, I was in my brain
looking at the car, so E JS driving Gina's next to him.
Then there's Carlos. I was like, who's Elsa's back
there? Ashlyn.
Sorry Ashlyn. So they're all like excited and
singing and they're like, we're going to go to camp and E JS
gone a billion times. So he's like Courtney and
Courtney. Because she has no, I swear she
has to be. I yeah, right.
Exactly. That's why I was like, there's
people in this car. OK, Yeah, so.
People in this car. I just couldn't.
Remember. Filled up.
I couldn't. Remember So like for some reason
they are the only ones going to the summer camp.
It's them. You just super kick out Big Red
and Seb. They're like, Nope, you guys
aren't allowed to come. Yes, I was going to get to that
because, like, they make up stupid excuses why they're not
going. And I'm like, OK, so we like for
some reason paired the cast down for this summer camp, which is,
I mean true to an extent. Not everybody's going to go to
the summer camp, otherwise it'd be weird in real life.
But like, it's weird enough. Also, they add too many though,
so yes. So anyway, they go to the camp.
They're all excited. EJ is like a veteran of this
camp. And so he's like, we're going to
have so much fun and like, him and Gina are dating for real
finally. And he's like, this is going to
be great. We're, I'm going to show you all
these things. We're going to have so much fun.
And then the whole thing with the documentary starts.
And Corbins like, well, I'm not actually involved.
I'm just here to promote this thing and film some shit.
So you guys are gonna have to figure this shit out.
Like, who's directing? Who's actually doing it?
And so for some reason, at this camp where EJ learned to be a
great actor, Nini learned to be a great actress.
Nobody knows how to run theater, which doesn't make sense.
So the director of the camper Dewey is like, well, I guess
you're doing it EJ because you know everything about this camp
as was established when you're teaching your friends about it.
So you're in charge. So poor EJ can't like, enjoy his
last summer camp before he goes to college.
He has to, like, be in charge. And when you're in charge of
something, it changes your entire behavior cause like he's
the boss of everybody and like didn't ask for this support EJ.
So like basically that starts the tension with Gina throughout
the whole time where she's like wow, I thought we were gonna
spend all this time together and blah blah, blah.
I'm like girl, he got put in charge of this thing he didn't
ask to be in charge of and you're like mad at him.
And it's two weeks. It's just.
Two weeks out of your whole. Summer and they're like the
summer's ruined and it's like it's two weeks.
You get 3 months off for summer, like just have the rest of the
summer. Why is everything waited on this
two week period? It's so stupid.
Try to like. The pressure Cause like not only
is he directing his first show ever that he's never done, has
never even thought about directing, but it's going to be
a documentary aired on Disney Plus for everyone.
I'm screaming it. Yeah, exactly.
Like, that's not nothing. And if you, like, cared about
him, you would understand that and be like, yeah, this is in an
insane circumstance. Yeah, shit's going to be weird
because nobody knew we were going to be doing this.
Like, have some compassion for, like, poor EJ, like, but no,
it's like, no, we obviously can't be together because these
two weeks have been so weird. And it's like, when else are you
going to be in this position at this summer camp?
Like, never. Like, just that's so stupid.
I was like, it just, it felt like they were forcing drama
just to break them up, just to break them up.
And it's like, this is insane and it's not real life.
Like it was weird. To be honest, I kind of wish
theirs was more mutual. Yeah, I agree.
It was. They were growing apart.
In the two weeks, it was 2 weeks I meant.
Before that, let's be real. They were never really going to
be a thing. No.
And at that point, yeah, Season 4, Gene, it would make more
sense for them to break up, but whatever.
They go through multiple personality changes each season.
Like, I don't think they get no. For real, they do.
It really confuses the shit out of me because we'll get, we'll
get to the Ashland section where like I completely go off about
this 100. Percent No.
That is exactly what it is. That's why.
No one has the same personality Season the season no.
No, no. But like also though the why
this one pissed me off the most though, it's just because like,
yeah, teenagers are growing their hormonal.
They change like absolutely. And like when it's happening
over the period of a school year or a semester, it makes more
sense because you have more time to like change.
This is a two week ordeal and like everybody changes their
personality in two weeks. And I and I'm.
Like, and they're basing life decisions off of camp.
And it's like, camp is not real life.
Camp is a vacation like you. It's like those people who are
just like, yeah, we're going to live in Hawaii and get this
house. And then they do it and they're
like, we can't afford this. And it's like, it's like, yeah,
no shit, dude, this was not real life.
Like, you can't base your life off of this fantasy vacation.
And that's what they're doing. And I'm like, what are they
doing? This is so wild.
I will say that musical theater camps are a different breed.
That's not vacation. Like you don't.
You're not even allowed to. Treat it like that.
I'm sure if it's actually a theater camp, but this isn't
actually a theater camp. It's set up as a regular camp
to. Understand this camp, OK?
The way EJ talks about it, he's like, yeah, we go in the canoe.
We do all this shit like it's a regular camp that also has
theater. It's not like theater camp.
Like when I was young, I went to lacrosse camp.
You're right. That is not a vacation.
You're training to do something. Like that's not what this is
what they're doing. They're in some hybrid where
there's like also a play, but it's mostly about camp camp,
Like there's camp traditions, there's like all of this stuff,
but I. Would have loved to like go to a
camp like that. My camp just kept giving me
panic attacks. Yeah, like, poor EJ.
Anyway, so that's my rant about that, because I thought this was
it's it just feels like the writers were trying to force
shit. Like, again, it's the
relationship Mcguvin's. They keep being like, OK, the
plot is like the play, but we also have to like move the
characters in relationships we need them in.
So we have to like force drama and it just feels forced and not
natural, particularly in this two week time span, which like
drove me insane 'cause I'm like, I can see very transparently
that you were trying to force EJ and Gina apart, who were fine
until they got to this camp and then put her with Ricky from the
beginning. I'm like, that's what you're
just do it, get it over with. I don't care.
Stop like, forcing this ridiculousness on me.
That's what out, man. You brought up that EJ was like
thrown into directing it. And so, like, I just keep
thinking about that time, like when he was in the tent working
on stuff, because they had like a huge film day the next day and
everybody just kept interrupting him being like, why aren't you
doing this? Why aren't you doing it?
And I'm just like, I know exactly what that feeling was
like, 'cause like I worked on something where I was, like
working 24/7 and like, nothing was going right.
And you it's everything is on you.
You're in charge it. It changes everything when you
are the one responsible versus you're the one in it.
And like, nobody has compassion for EJ when he's in this
position. He didn't ask to be.
In this whole season is very selfish on everyone's part.
Yeah, I totally, yeah. That's what it is.
Maybe that's why it drives me nuts.
And I'm like why? Yeah, everyone's very going
through, but because they're all going through.
Shit. But like, in the context of the
play, maybe it's because, like, the kids never have to actually
put themselves in that position because an adult is always doing
it and they just assume, oh, like Miss Jen's going to take.
Like, they never think about what Miss Jen actually has to do
to like, get their shit, get their plays going.
They just show up and they're like, I'm in the play, whatever.
But all the stuff she gets paid to go through, they never put
themselves in that position. But here's EJ.
You see your friend doing it and not.
At one point, Oh my God, I said. Frankie, Carlos.
Carlos does help him, which was cool to see him in like The
Thing and actually working with EJ.
Yeah, because Carlos is the one. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So he he should have had the most compassion because he's
kind of been the second in command in a way.
But man, that drove me nuts. I'm like.
He. He He has to do this.
Like what? Like leave him alone.
Oh my God. And.
It's like we can never be together because of the way
you're behaving. It's like he's in charge of the
play. Leave him alone.
This is not real life. Sorry.
The whole thing with him and Gina really pissed me off
'cause. It was just so forced.
I hate it so much.
There's something I did love about E JS Journey is that he
calls in Miss Jen. Yeah, that was kind just to
teach him how to be a director. And she just comes in with like
50 bullet points. It's like okay.
So this is what you need to do. You need to make an entrance
when you walk into the park. Oh my God, I love her lessons.
That was really great. I I did appreciate that, that
whole episode with her. It was definitely weird not
having her the whole season. It was weird.
And then I like where their relationship in particular goes
forward because they they bond over this and become more on
equal ground. Because like EJ is growing up,
he's like graduating, graduated, actually getting out of the high
school. So I like that him and Jen, Miss
Jen come well later, Jen to him come to more of a like we're
adults. On more equal footing with each
other. And it kind of starts here.
So I thought that was really cute and important.
Yeah, yeah. It was very sweet.
And then she's also so happy to see her babies.
Only that was a really weird the when they had this Jed say
everybody quiet, mommy's talking.
I just felt very weird. I was into that.
I was like, yes, keep talking. Miss Jed.
Yeah. What do you want?
I'm here for this. I was like, that was.
For the adult lesbians in the room, we're like, yeah, shut up.
Mommy's talking. Let her talk.
And then also when she told EJ
to find someone like Carlos, if he were at the camp and EJ goes,
he is at the camp and she goes don't take Carlos, Carlos is
mommy's. I do love that she does.
She has great comedic timing. Yes.
Agreed. OK.
Anything else about EJ? No, I just yeah, he's just
bothered me. But thank you for letting me
rant. Oh, but he also has like the
pressure from his dad. Yeah, yeah, that's the only
thing too. We saw a little bit of it last
season, I believe, where like his dad basically bought his way
into college. Was this before or after that
big scandal? So, like his dad wants him to
succeed, doesn't want to let him.
Not at one point he's told. I don't even know what his
college plans are. I forget.
Well, basically, OK, It's not so much that he wants EJ to
succeed. Dad is more interested in the
legacy of the men in their family.
And he's like, no, like all of us want to Duke you're going to
do because that's the family legacy.
And like he's like all of us are successful business people.
You have to be a successful business.
It's one of those things. He's like dad is imprinting the
family life onto EJ and not letting EJ be EJ.
And so there's that friction with his dad.
So his dad is trying to send him 'cause EJ wanted to take.
The other thing with Gina is that EJ was gonna take a gap
year, basically, and be like, I'm not gonna go to school yet.
I wanna figure my shit out and stay in Salt Lake.
So like, him and Gina could be a thing and he can figure out what
he wants to do, 'cause he doesn't know.
So dad's like, fuck that shit, you have to be successful.
So he's trying to send him to some like leadership training or
like. Oh, it was like something or
cash. Caswell's like leadership
training. Right, exactly like something
like that, where he's like, no, no, no, you need to do something
that's going to gear you towards success in business.
You're not taking time off. So like, dad was forcing him
into that. So E JS like, well, OK, I didn't
want to be in charge of this play, but if I can prove that
it's successful and it makes a lot of money on TV, then maybe
my dad won't send me to this like, leadership thing.
I can just be like, look, I'm already a like, please stop
trying to control me. So that's the other element of
pressure on to EJ to make this play and the documentary
specifically, not just the play, the documentary.
Tangible success that he could show his dad as proof that he's
finding his own way and being successful.
That's the lesson at the end of the day.
And apparently to measure the success, you have to be trending
in Brazil, which is fun. Brazil, the Brazilians, they go
hard with their fandoms, OK? If if you're big there, you're
going to make it. That's what it feels like.
So I think that's what that was about.
But I was like that's very specific and odd.
Yeah, no, I agree. I was like, OK, sure.
Is that maybe it's a theater thing.
I don't know. Maybe it's a Disney thing.
But they are very hardcore in Brazil at least that's like
because online like you always see like they're into it.
So good for them, good for you. If you're listening from Brazil,
get on, you help us trend. Can can we talk about Maddox
now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's go. Cool.
All right, so Maddox, just like me, she is happy and full of
energy when she wakes up. And yeah, she gets to.
I think it's a bugle that she plays in the morning to the
shallow lake song that she sings.
And I just love that. Yeah, not everyone appreciates
that. I I died it down when I was with
the aura. That's a classic camp thing,
though, is the bugle in the morning.
It's like everybody up. Yeah, it's like a camp thing.
No. OK, they're establishing that.
She is very attached to the traditions at this camp and
takes them seriously and takes joy in them.
That's what they're establishing.
Got it. OK, yes, 'cause she's always
talking about newbie initiation night and camp traditions.
Camp nicknames like she loves. This is her home, correct?
So her home life. She has a brother Jet who we
don't find out his brother till like halfway through and then no
one else finds out about it till like a little longer.
Yes, and they have a very strained relationship in this
season. For good reasons like God damn
it, jet all. Right.
So let's talk about what Jet did.
So Jet outed Maddox to their parents without, apparently
without meaning to, Like he thought that Madison was a guy.
Which I mean like the typical Madison name I feel like is
female. But also, regardless of whether
you're trying to out somebody or not, like what he did was fucked
up. He was mad.
He's like, Oh, my sister's dating when I'm not allowed to
or something, I'm just gonna, like, show it to Mom and dad to
get her in trouble. And then he inadvertently outs
her by doing that because it was a girl.
And like, yeah, so it's fucked up no matter what.
Like, he was intentionally trying to get her in trouble.
So, like, you can't be like, oh, you didn't mean to.
No, he meant to get her in trouble, but then he outed her
in the process, which he didn't mean to do that.
But either way, who's being a little bitch?
And he also apparently there's like, it's more than just that.
So like their relationship has been strained for so long.
They used to be really close, but as they grew up, I guess
personality changes. Hormones.
Yeah, he's like not being there for her.
Like, I feel like she needs to be reassured by people.
Yeah, I mean, she her, she became very isolated, like,
that's why she clings to camp. She became very isolated and
clings to things where she feels safe, which is why camp is such
a haven and why she, like, freaks out when camp things
don't go well because, like, that's her safety.
That's what she knows. That's familiarity.
She knows who she is in that setting.
She doesn't know who she is in her family anymore.
It's like she's kind of. Isolated.
Yeah. But at camp, when we're meeting
her after the first rehearsal, I believe Courtney offers to help
with costumes because you know, it's Courtney's thing and that
was her whole personality in season one.
And Maddox tells her that that she always, that Maddox always
does it and can handle it. And Courtney kind of just like
shuts up and she's like and walks away.
And I feel from Maddox in this moment because she looks and
she's like, oh shit, I didn't, I said something wrong and she
goes to say something, but Courtney's already gone and
after that we get a confessional type footage of her saying So.
The thing about me is that people sometimes call me an
acquired taste, which is a fancy way of saying I'm not for
everyone, which I pretend I'm fine with like it makes me cool
or something, but it actually kind of hurts my feelings.
And like this, this is this is what you need to know about
Maddox is that she looks confident, but on the inside she
does internalize everything that people say about her, which
makes Jet's betrayal even more hurtful for her, and probably
why she doesn't do as well with people.
She has Beatrice syndrome where she basically like, doesn't know
who she is. She's not super confident with
who she is, so she hides behind the things she can do, so she's
valuable to people. If she's doing things like I'm
going to play the bugle in the morning, I keep the camp going
that way. I have value.
I am the person who handles all of the costumes, so nobody else
has to, so everybody else can have fun.
I have value. That's a lot of what she does.
So as the stage manager and costume designer and all of that
stuff, Maddox is valuable to the production.
She can hide. It's a hiding role too.
She's not in the play. She's not really interacting the
way the actors interact, but she's hiding behind the skill
set she has. So, like, that's the other facet
to her. So yeah, it makes sense that
that kind of character who's hiding behind skills is
internalizing a lot of things. That's those two things tend to
go hand in hand and she definitely has those traits
going on. I so, I I mean, I was online
looking at everything I could possibly for High School
Musical, the musical, the series, and very important.
To say all the words Caitlin. You have to, because if I just
said High School Musical, it'd be the movies.
So yes. And someone brought up that they
think that Maddox might be Neurodivergent.
And it got me thinking. And it really does seem like
that, especially in season 3 when she is having trouble
communicating and relating to the new kids.
And like especially, she doesn't have a filter.
She does say like whatever, like pops into her brain most of the
time. And I relate to her a lot, which
is probably why I love her so much and it makes me really sad
that people didn't like her in the beginning, especially when
Ashlyn says it. Don't you think Like Maddox is a
lot and this is coming from someone who is also a lot?
And later she says that she's so chill.
So, like, I don't understand the season four to season 3 jump.
It's because the it's because Ashlyn is having feelings and
she doesn't know what they are and how to handle them.
So she's like, isn't this person really annoying?
Or like, it's well, it's a situation where you're like, you
know, you're complaining a lot about this one person, about how
much you hate them. It's really weird.
How much do you think about this one person?
It's like that she's like, she's a lot because Ashlyn feels a lot
and doesn't understand what she's feeling.
So that's her snitching on herself.
That's not really a comment about Maddox.
That's a comment about Ashlyn and what's going on inside
Ashlyn. 'Cause she's thinking about her
too much, that's why she's a lot.
Well, also she probably feels shit and she doesn't understand
it, so she's just like, she's a lot.
She makes me feel all these weird things and like that's a
lot. I don't know what to Yeah,
that's her telling on herself. That's not a comment on Maddox.
OK fine. I just.
I want everyone to love Maddox just because she's sweet.
She's just happy and wants to be there, Wants everyone else to be
happy and be involved. And eventually it works out, but
it's like you just met this person that you don't know.
It's hard to like integrate into a tight knit group that just
went through theater war basically and is very like
bonded. So it's like, yeah, any kind of
person who tries to assimilate, it's going to be like it's going
to be hard. Like it's hard to get into that.
So it takes, it takes a bit and they only have two weeks at this
camp. So the whole season we try to
see. We see Maddox trying to fit in.
And one of main points in her storyline is that her and her
girlfriend that she had at camp last year broke up at the camp
prom and Jet trying to get back in Max's good graces.
And I think it was Ricky's idea. I think that's how this whole
thing happened. So Ricky got Jet to invite
Madison to the camp prom, and Maddox takes it personally, like
that. Jet doesn't think that she's
fitting in with the new girls, so that's why he invited her.
And she's like, I don't want to see her.
This is literally the anniversary of us breaking up
like who's? So fucked.
Oh my God, it's so fucked. I mean, the sentiment was sweet,
but the play out was terrible and I do wish Madison wasn't
there because then we have to get through all the season four
shit with her. Just talk to your sister.
Jet. What the fuck?
Like this was unnecessary. He's not very good at
communicating and we've seen this because he's the silent,
scary person that everyone's terrified of in the beginning of
this season. He's the broody guy Jet has.
His own issues going on. Everyone has issues, yes, that's
how people work. So that gets better for her.
I guess she's it makes her more confused.
Really. Isn't the girlfriend JoJo Siwa
though? Yeah, it is.
It is JoJo Siwa. I was excited to see her.
It also doesn't make sense. I was gonna.
Say it, doesn't it? Doesn't because she's a Nick
kid. Like she's a Nick star.
I know, not Disney. So very strange.
It's like, who is actually queer in real life and?
In this age bracket. They're like, oh Judge oh,
literally the only person. It's very strange.
But like, she can't dance in the show.
It's like she can't act very well either.
It's very weird. That's not what I mean.
She was never like a really trained actor.
Right. So why is she here?
I was so confused. I don't understand.
Why they didn't have her dance like why did they write her?
In as the character was, I don't know, it was such a waste of
that particular person's talents to have her play this role.
But like cool, she's playing a queer person on TV, that's also
that's to be celebrated. No knocking to her, but like, I
was expecting them to have like a duet together and it never
happened. Yeah, they used to like what
they're like. We have JoJo Siwa.
Wait two hours. That's it.
That's all we can. Yeah.
Olivia Coleman Money. I'm saying like God damn like.
To get the Olivia Coleman joke, please go watch our Heart
Stopper episodes. Love Olivia Coleman.
Anyway, I wish she was here. I'd be more excited about you.
Imagine Olivia Coleman showing up.
I can. I can totally imagine her being
the aloof camp counselor. Yes, like, I wanted that.
Just Olivia Coleman as Olivia Coleman Just in the show for no
reason. Speaking of camp counselors,
Dewey is played by oh shit, what's his name?
Jason Earls, who was the brother in in High School Musical in
Hannah Montana. And yeah, so I I grew up with
him and now he's an adult. And actually he never looked his
age. He's always looked so much
younger, like he's like 28 when he was playing 16 in Hannah
Montana. And it was insane anyway that he
just the aging and I think he actually worked on the show as
well. It's pretty cool.
So yeah, there there's your fun fact.
But yes, Maddox, I just love her.
And she has to go through a lot this season as well with just
trying to handle the change because it lots changing.
Especially if you put in these freaking Wildcats because they
change everything. It's a metaphor for growing up,
but yeah. So before we get to Ashlyn.
I have one thing I want to say that involves both Ashlyn and
Maddox, so I thought it was I'm ready for.
This I've been waiting. So on.
I don't know if this is worth it, but on the first day where
they're arrive at camp, Maddox and Ashlyn are both wearing
rainbows, so foreshadowing shit. Ashlyn's shirt has a giant
rainbow for the heart and Maddox's socks have rainbows on
it. So it's like from the beginning
the wardrobes. Like watch these two.
You always pay attention. To wardrobe, cause wardrobe says
things about the characters. I don't like clothes.
I have trouble paying attention to that.
But yeah, it's yeah, thank you. That is very helpful.
Yeah. Oh, it sure was.
So if you're watching it and you're just like, I see where
this is going already. We always, we always.
We've already established many times in this podcast that I
don't understand subtext and like little things to and I
can't assume things so like I have to be told.
I'm hoping by me bringing it up multiple times you'll pick up on
things. I pick up on more.
Now I do. It's a process.
I just have to talk with Fiora a lot.
That's why we're here. That's why we're here.
We're queer also. Like, how do you not notice the
rainbows, Caitlin? Shouldn't you just notice that?
Anyway, Be like rainbows? Ricky wears rainbows a few
times, and I I applaud him for that.
I love that good ally. He's queer in real life, is he?
I think he might have been bullied to come out though.
Another Kit Connor situation. Super fucked.
Up. I'm not totally mad, don't want
me on that. But yeah, so everyone was like
expect. I think in like season two, he
like came out in real life or something and so they were
expecting his character to come out and then.
How acting works? And the people who play Ashlyn
and Big Red are also queer in real life, I believe.
Love. That.
Love that. I know Ashlyn definitely is, but
I just saw a comment that said Big Red was good.
So they're like, I think he's going to or maybe Ashlyn and Big
Red and then the next comments from like a year later saying
like, well, two out of the three came out.
Listen, I thought on the show we were and eventually going to get
Miss Jen coming out because I was like, she's just like a
magnet for attraction, like constantly.
She always has at least two people into her.
And I was just like, when is Miss Jen going to meet the
barista? And like, that starts up because
and it never happened. I was like, come on man, where's
the show? Everyone is queer.
They don't know it, but they are.
Yeah, I mean, just like life. Anyway.
So, Speaking of queer, let's get into Ashlyn's journey, because
it's very good, yes? Ashlyn goes through a whole
identity crisis this season. Like.
That is her arc. Identity crisis, that's that is
like the what is what does Ashlyn do this?
He's an identity crisis. It's so good, though.
Yeah, so she is going through some shit, OK?
This poor girl is so confused, 'cause she's just coming off of
being Belle and Beauty and the Beast.
So like she's on a high, like she was the least.
She was the main character in her life, yes.
Who knew who she was. Like she had to come into her
own and feel comfortable in her own skin basically for that
role. So now she's like confident, and
naturally she is expecting to get a good part in Frozen
because you don't go backwards, right?
But instead she is cast as the ensemble.
The casting process is the suckiest part of doing theatre
because there's always a part you want, but most times you
won't end up getting it. I'm not bitter.
Never. Not at all.
Why would you be Kailyn? No, not at all, anyway.
Once she gets cast in the ensemble by Vow, she thinks vows
out to get her something. And I know, like, that is a
pretty natural. That's how it starts.
It's enemies to go, enemies to lovers.
That's how it starts. Like, it's like there's one
person like, she's literally the reason you didn't get a role, so
it is her fault, but like, it's just because the other two she
saw whatever. It's subjective at the end of
the day, which? Is the shitty part, but this
brings me to a whole point that I backed up with statistics
because I like numbers. So to Val's credit, there aren't
a lot of female roles in the musical, just like Frozen alone.
Besides On and Elsa, it is mostly males roles which can
also be said about most shows. At least that's what it feels
like. And it's also the reason why
it's easier to get a better part if you are a male Ricky who
doesn't do anything well in auditions, because especially at
like the high school level, there are more females doing it
and with least less roles and there's more competition and
more drama. So what I'm hearing is in order
to get the best person in the best role, we should just get
rid of gender and just cast the best person.
Yeah, Speaking of which. Speaking of which, Caitlin, this
has nothing to do with High School Musical, but if you're
into that, I'm just finishing up a book right now that's Queer AF
that actually deals with this. And it's so fun.
It's called Iris Kelly Doesn't Date by Ashlyn, Ashlyn, Ashley,
Harrington, Blake. Go, listen, go go read that
book. It's so good.
And it actually does have this plot line in it.
It's magical. Sorry, I mean to derail you, but
it. Wasn't you?
It can happen. It's WhatsApp because I was to
tell you to. Oh, I will.
Don't worry. OK, cool.
We should talk about it together, 'cause I think you'd
like it. Yes, yes.
OK, so all the groups I was in were struggling to find more
shows that were female heavy, 'cause there's like none.
Yeah, it's illegally. Even Legally Blonde had a lot of
male characters. Like, we had to, like, keep
pulling in adults to be the male characters.
It was that bad. So statistics because I may and
also get distracted while researching stuff on Broadway.
In the 2017 to 2018 season only 37% of title characters, which
means non ensemble so they actually had a name, were women.
In 2018 to 2019, this number went down to 32% in film.
From the top 100 highest grossing films in 2021, only 34%
of speaking characters were female, down from 36% in 2020.
Now I know fanboys out here about to come into the comments
like they for some reason get to them.
Why are you listening to this? Well, we don't, we don't put our
shorts on YouTube anymore because.
Of them it. Doesn't go well.
So yeah, I don't expect to get these comments, but I know
people would come in and be like, well, that's because men
are doing it better and that's why they're higher grossing.
No, that's just because the opportunities aren't there as
much in the higher budget films. Which are action films 99% of
the time? And I know someone's going to
use like the marvels as something, but you know what?
There's always other things that go on.
And then also I've seen a lot of comments from men like Downing
movies before they even see them because it's like female Lud.
Misogyny is a hell of a drug. That's.
The word misogyny. Yeah, no, that's why this is
all. Patriarchy getting the word
misogyny and monogamy. They are not the same thing,
Caitlyn. Don't just throw out N words if
you don't know what they mean, girl.
I said I know what it but I Anyway, that's enough time.
We can do a whole episode on disparity in the media.
We definitely could to Ashlyn. Anyway, back to Ashlyn.
Meanwhile, Ashlyn also has something against Maddox in
addition to Val, because Maddox can be very blunt and direct,
and she may have come on a little too strong when talking
to Ashlyn. Like Maddox, Maddox really does
like just like, oh, you're this, you're that not.
She doesn't ask. She doesn't like, hey, what do
you think about this? How?
Yeah. Like, she she.
Just reads the writing on the wall and she's just like, boom.
Yeah, she's like, you're a fire sign, yeah.
She's like, no. And so Ashlyn already feels out
of place being in the ensemble cause like that was out of left
field for her. And I feel like she probably
feels attacked by Maddox when Maddox tries to question her
about things. That made Ashlyn question
herself even more, because again, Ashlyn came in feeling
sure about herself. Because being Belle had to,
like, have her accept who she is.
So she's like, this is me, I know myself, I'm good now.
And now literally everything she knows is crumbling.
Yeah, she feels like she's taking a bunch of LS, but
really? Maddox notices every little
thing and just starts like poking in the holes and it's
crumbling. And the facade?
It's OK. It's just it's painful.
And I think Ashlyn was clinging to everything that she knew
about herself and she didn't want to allow herself to grow.
She's like, I don't care if that's who I am, Like, I want to
stay what I know because it's safe.
She, I mean, this poor girl, is going through a lot of change
all at once. Like we see her go through.
It's two weeks. Guys this is 2.
Weeks. Let's sleep away Camp though
Theora. So we're it's like.
It's a wild two weeks this season and.
I'm not into astrology and stuff like that.
But we're not those gays. We're.
Not astrology. Gays.
I don't think any of us are. I know Bruno's a little bit, but
she's not like into it. But I know, like people are into
it. It's their personality.
And like, yeah, it's their personality.
It's who they are. Good for you.
So she she seems to be very much into that, like she has a
psychic. I don't think that's.
I don't know if that's part of it.
Please don't come at me. I don't know much about this
area. No, it just it depends.
There's different facets, but like Ashlyn is already in that
realm because she has a regular psychic she talks to regularly
and then Maddox. And she talks about how like she
knows who she is. She's a something, I think, she
said. Capricorn.
Right. She she knows her own astrology
science. So like you could They're
showing that they have things in common.
That's what they're demonstrating here.
So when she realizes that she was born at a completely
different time of day and ruined the eggs Benedict when she was
born. Because you know, you know what,
we learned things about EJ and Ashlyn's family of how, like,
they're not really great people, at least E JS parents.
I feel so bad for him because his mom was pissed off that
Ashlyn ruined the eggs Benedict when she was born anyway, so she
finds out that she's a Leo rising and she's like, shit.
I'm a completely different person than I thought, like
everything is different because of a different sign.
But like, I do feel like Ashlyn was very or like slightly too
very out of character this season.
I we've already mentioned before that I don't think the
personality connects to either seasons.
Really. I feel like this was just AI.
She's spiraling season well, I mean, I felt like she was quite
aggressive. That's because she's her life is
she feels like, again, teenagers, big feelings.
It's the end of the world. She feels like it's the end of
the world. So like, yeah, she's not
handling it well. She's usually more reserved,
like, especially in like the first season and stuff.
But she's not going through turmoil.
In the first season, she's just chilling being a side character.
And then in the second season, she actually gets in the
spotlight as a character and like does go through like the
whole like body positivity issue or accepting thing and then what
it means to be a lead versus like you know, background.
She gets her first like love interest, like she goes through
a lot and then she gets all the things that is very secure and
then a bomb gets thrown on her. It's OK for her to like act out
and like not know how to handle that.
It's all new and she wasn't expecting any of this.
I was gonna give a reason. For it, there's there's a
reason. It could be because she really
doesn't who who she is right now and maybe trying to.
Overcompensate. Yes, that is exactly what's
happening. So it's not at it is out of
character, but it isn't. It's like a normal reaction.
OK, so Maddox realizes that Ashlyn's, just like a vowel may
actually be more like how Maddox acted towards Madison at camp.
So like they started off as enemies to lovers.
Because, you know, that's gay. It's so gay.
It's the best Maddox. Well, it's not that she's again.
Maddox is like, you're talking about this person a lot.
Like I under. I see what this is like.
You're fixated a lot on this one person.
You seem to have big feelings about this.
What? That's what she sees.
It's not just that I hate. Her, I think we get that Maddox
speech after, like, Ashlynn is literally at the movie night
talking about how annoying Val is, right?
And like, I think she also says like that, how she's perfect in
things and something like that. She's like that energy is there
like. Maddox is like, Oh my God girl,
you have it so bad. Exactly.
She's like, you have a crush on this person, this, so people
with crushes do. But Maddox knew how bad Ashlyn
reacted to the Leo Rising thing. She's like, I'm not saying shit
right now. I do not want us to have any
more issues between the two of us.
Well, she doesn't say anything until literally everyone is
yelling. So like the everyone is so upset
with each other and Maddox tells Ashlyn that she shouldn't take
out her romantic feelings for on Val and Oh my gosh.
And then Ashlyn just starts gay panicking and freaking out.
Be like I have a boyfriend, A male boyfriend.
Again, world is crumbling. Yeah, so it takes Ashlynn a
little while, 'cause she's still trying to come to terms with her
new self, and she realizes that she has been snapping at Valmore
once she, like, steps back and stops being too defensive.
And after Color War, she's helping pick up streamers,
confetti from the floor. And Val says, you don't have to
do that. I'm like, girl, there's a lot of
stuff on that ground. Take the help.
Yeah, just let her do it, man. Get a leaf.
Blower, at least. So Ashlynn hugs Val at the end
after apologizing to her. She's like, Val, I'm sorry I've
been so snapping at you. I don't know what's going on
with me. And Val, meanwhile, knows
exactly what's going on. She's studying psychology in
college, like she's like, this is so obvious.
But I also love that she doesn't say anything about it because,
like, it would be really embarrassing.
Like someone that you have a crush on who's like, you know,
is straight, but she's just like, I'm gonna let you figure
it out. Nothing's changing.
Also like as a psychologist, like part of it is like the
person has to get there. Like you telling them the answer
is not how it works. Like it's a process.
Like the individual person who's processing like has to get to
the conclusion so she's like, I understand what this is.
You need to get to your own conclusion so you can get to a
place of acceptance. It's fine.
Just don't be weird about it. Don't grab my ass or anything.
It's fine. Don't be weird.
So yeah, I feel like she's she is taking her psychologist role
very seriously or she's like, OK, you'll you'll get there,
you're you're you're on a journey.
It's fine. I know it's very tame.
I get it. She's she's very confident in
herself, as she should be. Like, good for her.
So Ashlynn hugs Val and there are fireworks.
Like literally. And like, I know that that's
quite cheesy, but like, it is geared towards kids.
And I feel like that might help them like, oh, that's what's
going on. So you know what?
I'll take it. You know what we get Ashley
figuring her shit out. So, oh, also, side note, they
talk about the Disney Channel games in this episode.
Does anyone remember that? Do you remember that?
Fiora. No.
OK, so I lived for those games every year and they were just
like these random little short like 15 minute things of them
playing like the Olympics, but they pit all the Disney stars
against each other on like 4 different colored teams.
Oh, I guess it's like legend. So I grew up with legends of the
hidden temples. Oh God, that that.
Show scared the shit out of me when I was little.
The OG not they tried to revise it.
The OG that show is great. So like, everybody tried to rip
that off later and make it their own shorter, condensed version.
That show was lit that. Thing scared me.
I was terrified. I mean to be fair, The Lion King
scared me. Lion King, 7th grade.
The play is terrifying. It's it's fun to do the dance.
I'm. Sure it is, but it's terrifying
to be like, what the fuck's happening as a child when you're
expecting cartoons? Oh yeah, I saw it when I was
older. So I don't you're like I'm
scarred. Terrifying.
I don't remember it because it was just like, what am I
watching? No, but at the time of the
Disney Channel games, I was very obsessed with Sabrina.
Not Sabrina. Yeah, Sabrina, Bryan.
I was about to say Sabrina Carpenter.
That's why I was trying to Sabrina Bryan, who was Dorinda
in The Cheetah Girls and did not understand that obsession back
then either. But she was on Team Yellow, so I
was team. Yellow all the way.
OK, so now that Ashlyn knows that she's queer, Carlos gives
Ashlyn a pride pin at the camp prom and welcomes her to the
community. Also, like, when did did she
just, like, make an announcement that she's queer or something?
He has gaydar. He's not blind.
He's like, I see what's happening here.
I'm not done. She has to figure it out.
And then I can hug her and welcome her to the Alphabet
Mafia, which she does. It's very cute.
I feel like her whole journey to figuring this out was watered
down. Oh for.
Sure. It's Disney.
It's still important for,
especially for Disney Produce show to have this representation
in it. But truly, I like how it played
out because it's. It's real.
Like she didn't realize what was happening.
And, like, that's like, it's one of those things where you like
when you realize you're gay and then you look back and you're
like, wow, I was so gay. Like that thing I did with my
friend, like, when I had like a like, I was clearly jealous of
her and like, all of the stuff. But it was coming from a place
of, like, I wanted to date her. Like, that's exactly what she
goes through. Like that is so real.
Like, you know, So I think it was handled very well.
I liked it. I liked her.
And the arc took the whole season and it didn't come out of
nowhere like they did sprinkle it in.
So it was paced very well and I love that the other queer people
are like, I see exactly what's going on.
Like I see the writing on the wall, like girl like come now,
like face, like look at the rainbow, like come on.
So I do. I like all of that.
And I like that they didn't have Maddox, like try and push her or
like try and flirt with her, all this stuff.
She just let her come to her own conclusion.
She let Ashlyn come to her own conclusion.
Something I like that about. Maddox wasn't there to make.
Ashlyn realized that she's gay. Max, she's just a lesbian.
Like, yes, hold on. Lesbian.
Just talked about the girl that she liked multiple times.
Like it was just normal and it was great and it wasn't even her
how she feel. She realized Ashlyn realized it.
It was with. Correct.
And I like that because often times it gets weird where the
queer awakening is then the person you date.
And that gets weird because I don't know.
Like, it's like you're the only gay person I know and I'm dating
you, so it becomes hard to, like, talk to them about stuff.
So I like the way they get paced as just like, friends.
Like she's with Ashlyn through the beginning of her queer
journey and then it gets to a romantic place later.
Spoiler. But, like, I like that.
That's not the gay awakening character for Ashlyn.
I like that a lot. And This is why Val is very
important to us. Exactly she Without Val, we
wouldn't be here. Val had to take the role of Miss
Jen. Exactly why was Miss Jen not?
People's gay awakening. Look at her.
She would own that shit. Be like, damn right.
Anyway, so yeah, very cute. I I enjoy it.
So we'll talk a little bit more about Ashlyn later, but first I
want to bring up a parallel to Season 2.
That is, it's probably obvious, but you know what?
I realized it. So I'm putting it in here.
Do it. So in the Quinceanera episode in
season 2, season two O 5, I believe Mr. Mazzara asked EJ who
the most interesting interview was, but EJ was too busy staring
at Gina to answer, which which basically told Ben the answer
and he just smiles at him knowingly.
Meanwhile, in this season, EJ is now the one to ask Maddox if
anyone caught her eye, and Maddox is too busy staring at
Ashlynn. I forget what Ashlynn says, but
she, like, makes an entrance and walks off camera.
Yeah, so Maddox just too busy smiling like an idiot staring at
Ashlynn. And EJ knew then that Madeleine
would be a thing. Yep.
Yeah, so we knew like they they told us in this season that
they're going to be a thing. They just had to figure out how
to get Maddox to their. School next season, which is
ridiculous. But yeah, 'cause they like to do
that a lot, They're like, oh look, I'm your parents are so
super cool with you just changing schools in the middle
of the year. Anyway, it drives me nuts.
But it's a children's show. It's not supposed to be reality.
But yeah, no, the writing was on the wall about the two of them,
since they were both wearing rainbows together.
Like it was right there. It was there at the beginning.
So, yay, Which brings us to talking about the mental health
representation in the season because we get a little bit of
it when, like last season with people going through their own
internal issues. But here we see Courtney's
anxiety like, really play out. Like they focused on that a lot.
Yes, absolutely. And song about it and
everything. I will get there.
Oh, I know. I'm just throwing that in there.
Because they were like, they're going full in on this anxiety.
Also, like Courtney is a person now.
Like, she's not just Nina's sassy black friend.
She's a person. She's a person who gets a lot
more. Yeah, she's great.
It's really cool that they had Gina and Courtney.
You know, because when you get Olivia Rodrigo out of the
picture, the other women can be people.
Again, disclaimer, we're not saying anything bad about Olivia
Rodrigo. It's just her character.
Her character's name is really annoying.
It's easier to say Olivia Rodrigo, but like, yeah, like,
no, she leaves and takes the focus away.
And then all the other women become people.
Because before that, in season one, they're just propping up
her character, which is annoying.
Same thing with the men. Like the men too were there to
prop up Ricky. Like in the first season, it's
just all about the two of them. And then everybody became
people. Like, this is really where.
That's what I mean when I say like, before, like season three
is where the show really becomes its own thing, 'cause like
everybody, they pared down the cast for this camp and then
everybody really got their own plot line and like, their own,
like fears explored identities, like all of them.
And it worked on like, Carlos got something exactly.
Got overlooked so much in this show.
Yes, exactly. He was just like this sassy gay
guy. Like everybody became like a
person here. And it was really refreshing to
see that, except Ricky really stayed the same.
He was the same person but. Turkey's mostly the same
throughout the entire show. I think that's the one who
stayed the most consistent. Yeah, yeah, so whatever.
But like lead boy aside, everybody like got their own
plot and it felt pretty natural the way they were doing it,
except the weird two week thing that I keep harping on.
But other than that, like it became its own thing here for
me. See The thing is you keep
bringing up the two week thing and in my head I'm just can't
get over the fact that they said that that the music man was a
month at camp in the first season.
So like I don't understand how I from a month.
To right. I don't understand this camp.
That's part of the problem. And like I'm used to two week
camps, but like I don't understand.
And also this one should have been the four week 1 instead of
the two week ones. Just be like this one's going on
TV, right? It's wild.
Which, to be fair, they. Didn't know until they got
there, but like, it's just wild. Also they they made them sign
releases for this documentary without even telling them that
they're signing the releases. So like that's also illegal and
would not hold up in court. So technically they could have
gotten any footage that they wanted deleted, but I mean, I
guess they should have read it as well.
They're children, but if they thought it was but no, their
parents would have had to sign it.
So you know. It's that is true.
That is true. They're minors, so that didn't
make sense. So basically.
I think they could have not had this documentary released at
all. But then they wouldn't be like
instafamous etcetera so? I'm just.
Saying but that's true. You're you're right.
Valid point. I'm the.
I'm the legal system here. I like to be.
Dressed up as Christmas. I didn't realize that till
Christmas. If you're not watching, Theora
is wearing green and I'm wearing red and I found another costume
to wear this time. Last time I was in my gold
sequin jacket thingy and now I'm in my Britney Spears outfit.
Those are some impressive buttons, Caitlin.
Thanks. I'm surprised they still lasted.
Anyway, that is so off topic right now.
It is all good, OK, Courtney and her anxiety.
Courtney Oh, Courtney. And it's rough going through
mental health, especially when you're not home like this is.
I think this might be the first time she was removed from her
house. Like, so yeah, sleeping over
somewhere, definitely, at least for me, brings my anxiety out.
And like, if I'm not fully mentally healthy in there, like,
I'm just like, can I go home? It's a lot.
It doesn't even matter where I am.
Like, I could want to be somewhere.
And it's just like, I just want to feel comfortable right now.
Not terrified. Yeah.
So Carlos brings up that Courtney seems anxious.
And this was after Courtney had a phone call with her mom
talking about being anxious and how like she's just so confused
about everything. And so Courtney thinks that Gina
told him what her mom said on the phone.
And I think it's important to show that, like, she feels
ashamed of her anxiety. But she really shouldn't,
because I guarantee half the people in that room get anxious
at least. Anxiety is not uncommon.
Crippling anxiety, sure, but like, anxiety in general.
But, like, they're trying to establish that, like Courtney is
the person who puts a lot of pressure on herself to be
perfect. And so that in and of itself
causes anxiety. And then to be like made the
lead, which she wasn't, I think, truly expecting and like being
pushed so much out of her comfort zone in such a short
amount of time. Like, that's scary.
Yeah, and all these, there's like all these little obstacles,
like getting the lead, they keep piling on her.
And one of the big things that breaks her confidence is that
climbing wall. Yeah, she mentions up front,
like she talks about how she is super competitive and she will
cheat. And Maddox thinks, OK, OK, cool,
we're gonna win. She's like, but I am afraid of
heights. She's like, oh, OK, so you win
some, you lose some, something like that.
But this poor girl in this climbing wall, like, she is so
pressured to climb up this wall. And when she couldn't do it,
she's like, OK, Gina won. We don't have to do it anymore.
She didn't really, like, make it off the ground.
Everyone starts chanting for her to do it.
And I could not imagine what it felt like for her in that moment
because just like everyone telling you to do something that
you know you can't, like, you're not capable of right now.
And it's feels like it's you're gonna die if you have to.
And then luckily Miss Jen was there and like, she's the one
who comes up and she's like children.
Yeah, you will do it when you're ready.
And she's like, I'm telling you I'm not ready and she wasn't.
And Miss Jen just like hugs her and like reassures her.
And Miss Jen is so sweet with all of them.
And I I love that she's always there, no matter what.
It's important to lesson, but like, setting boundaries is OK
with people. Like, don't have.
You don't have to give it to peer pressure all the time.
Like, like, yeah, like there's like the hey, if you're afraid
of something, it probably means you should do it, 'cause you're
as a saying for getting out of your comfort zone, 'cause if you
just are crippled by your fear and never do anything, you'll
never change or grow, which is true.
But like, if you feel like you're going to die, like,
because of your anxiety, that is not a reason to just do it
anyway. Like, listen to your body, it's
OK. Like, if you're not ready,
you're not ready. And it's OK to set that
boundary. So that isn't that is an
important lesson that this is showing.
Yeah, I'm still working on that lesson.
It's hard. Yes, very vulnerable to period
pressure. Anyway, so the prom is the night
before opening night and everything was piling on her too
much. And like, she is freaking out.
I mean, she has a lead role and it's going to be aired on
Disney. Like, that's the thing we have
to keep bringing up, is like, this whole thing is going to be
aired on Disney, right? And live streamed.
Like it's not even like something that can be edited
later. Yeah.
And she tries to give Ashlyn her part and like props to Ashlyn
for like not being like, 'cause she like the whole time Ashlyn
once a part. And like, she even tells like,
Miss Jen tries to say, are you their long lost third sister
that they find on ancestry.com And she's like, we actually
can't add characters to this one.
I checked, I'm like, thank you because it's illegal.
Anyway, go watch the last episode if you haven't, to me
talking about all the illegal things in this show.
So Ashley tells her that she can't do it, that she's not
going to do the role for her because Courtney can do it and
she's going to kill it. Which go girl?
Yes. It's part of.
This but Courtney is so worried about messing the show up.
But she has some great friends around her and they help her and
encourage her to climb that wall.
But she does conquer and it's a great episode ending for the
episode where she does end up climbing the wall.
But I love that Maddox is with them too.
And so in the beginning, that's whole scene, Courtney is singing
this prayer that she says that helps ground her and calm her
down. And when everyone is having such
a bad night and they're just like all about to go to bed,
Ashlyn's like, can I borrow it? And she starts singing it to
ground her and just like also bring everyone together.
And then Gina comes in and then Ashlyn actually asked Maddox to
come in because Maddox is standing like there.
Like, I'm not actually in this crowd yet, but she's there.
And like, but Ashlyn is trying to welcome her in.
She's like, I see you, I know who you are, like you've been
just trying to fit in with us. We're all the same because
they're theatre kids. Let's be real.
They have the line. Exactly.
Yes, camaraderie. And the song that Courtney sings
cause like the backgrounds are the other girls.
It's so beautiful. And Dara, I've been, I've been
saying her name wrong. The first two episodes.
I'm so sorry. I've been saying Dara, it's
actually Dara. Dara wrote this song at, which
makes it even better. So the lyrics are here.
I come loud as a lion. I'll keep on fighting.
I've just begun see the horizon. I'll keep on climbing a little
on the nose there. I've shown that I've grown
through the changes, had to prove to myself I'm a make it
here I come. I won't stop till the war is
won. I can be bold, be unashamed, be
in control, be in control, be unafraid, letting it show.
I was born to be brave. So I love like the affirmations
that are in there, 'cause. Like she can just like keep
telling her so. Like I can do this.
I am bold. I'm in control of what happens,
and it's also a great call back to her first song in the series,
Born to Be Brave, which she kills many time in the show.
And then when Courtney is climbing the wall, the
background of the wall disappears.
I mean, you still see the wall, but like the world around it
disappears and you just see. The stars.
Oh, that's good. And it's just like how it was
when Ashlyn was playing the piano, when she was singing,
rising after she, like, was starting to realize that she's
not who she thought she was and that she's coming into her own.
And it in Ashland's song, the stars, like, it starts in a
little bit in the background and then it becomes where it just
like encompasses her and the piano.
And I think the stars here represent opening up to new
things and endless possibilities, especially since
the background does and it adds more as she's singing because,
like, she's accepting herself more.
Damn, that's so good. Good job, Caitlyn.
And plus thank you all the astrology shit too.
Like it's like empowering also. Stars are a big thing.
And I mean her middle name's literally Moon.
That's true. But also, like, for the two of
them, like, it's like they have to conquer this on their own in
a way. Like, yeah, they have a lot of
supportive friends. Like, Courtney's friends are all
there as she's literally climbing the wall.
And like, Ashlyn has the support system of her theater group.
But like, this is like a personal journey where they have
to go into the unknown, like space, the final frontier by
themselves. Yeah.
So that's great. No, I love that you pointed that
out. That's really beautiful.
Good. Good.
I guess. Cinematography, toys.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who would make that
decision. Director.
Good directing. Yeah, it would.
It would be. Shout out to whoever did that.
That's beautiful and brilliant. I think you would be director or
some DP, yeah. Love the symbolism.
I'm here. For and then visual effects
people executed. It, yeah, yeah.
Well done. But after that, during the
performance. So the Frozen performance.
Courtney begins freaking out about messing up again, and I
love that they show her still struggling with this because
mental health is a roller coaster.
And just because you can conquer one thing like this wall, it
doesn't mean that you're magically cured of these
thoughts. They're gonna keep coming back.
Like they probably came back 5 seconds after she conquered the
wall. And then something else I love
is that little Elsa, played by Alex, played by Arya Banks.
In real life, I don't think that's her last name, Arya
Brooks. She gives Courtney a pep talk
and gets her through her anxiety when they're backstage.
Also, I don't understand how they're, like on stage and like,
Courtney was in bed when they were, like, literally performing
the show and then had time, 'cause, like, isn't Elsa in
this? I don't.
I'm really confused. It's fine.
It's two weeks. It's this weird work time here
and I don't understand. Let's just move past it.
Yeah, it's weird. But I love that it was the
little one talking to her about this.
Because it shows that if, since we're more open with talking
about mental health, we've gotten so much better, like in
the media and just in general in life talking about it.
But it shows that by valuing our mental health, the younger
generation is better equipped to handle their feelings.
They have more words to describe how they're feeling.
They know how to identify their feelings.
And I mean, like, yes, they aren't technically that far
apart an age in the show, but it has the essence.
So yeah. Agreed.
I just love that same. And also cuz she's like little
Elsa was talking about how she has a therapist and Courtney's
like you have a therapist. She's like Oh yeah, everyone
should it's great. Which, yes, we need more
therapists too, because those poor people are overworked.
Not the whole positivity. Anything else to add before we
get to one of my favorite weird, really weird scenes in this
whole let's? Get into it.
Do it. Dive right in.
Let's just talk about this documentary trailer.
Do it. OK, So first of all, the
premiere for this documentary is one month after they do the
show. What kind of Taylor Swift
timeline is this I? Don't know Disney magic, because
she was. Able to put her documentary, not
documentary, but show out movie out really quickly like I don't
a one month. OK, Disney Magic.
I guess it is. Wild.
Time means nothing this season. That's my point.
It means nothing. So the trailer makes it look
like Maddox and Ashlyn have a crush on each other.
And let's be real, Maddox at least, definitely did it's.
Definitely mutual. It's just Ashley didn't know
what was going on and still doesn't.
But like, I thought Ashlyn, I mean, I guess you can like two
people at the same time. You definitely.
Ashley was just like girls girls, that's all.
That's all she was thinking, right?
She was. The summer.
She definitely had, because she was snapping at her, too.
It's not. She just didn't recognize it.
Literally, Yeah. When they're watching it,
Maddox's face, after they talk about they show it in between
this whole thing happening, Maddox's face looks like she got
caught with her hand in a cookie jar and she's just like, oh
shit, they saw it and then actually.
The funny part about that too is that like the whole plot of the
documentary drama was that Ricky said something about liking Gina
and it was like a big fear that that was going to come out.
But then the other crush comes, actually comes out in the in the
documentary they showed us the trailer, which is really
surprising. It was head baiting where
they're like, oh shit, that's going to be the relationship
drama, but it's actually these queers, which is fun.
They're like, yes, the queers have their time of they do
messiness. So actually thinks it was just
edited like that and says they shouldn't have signed the
release forms. But then the camera pans to
Maddox and she just turns her head away and looks a little
embarrassed. She's just like, oh OK, I mean,
yeah, sure, they edit it like that.
So I don't think that that whole thing was taken out of context,
especially since EJ. So EJ in there says, Oh yeah,
that thing that's going to be a thing when and it looks like
Ashland thinks that they edited like that to be it, talking
about Ashland and Maddox. But EJ didn't speak up and say
that that's not what he meant when everyone else was doing
that, when they took them out of context so well.
We get confirmation in season four that, like, he definitely
knew that we're going to be a thing because he carved
something their initials into a tree or whatever.
So like. Yes, which is very weird.
It's so weird. He had no time to interact with
people, but he had time to. Carve his souls into a tree that
weren't his and Gina's. Exactly.
It's weird, but yeah, I yeah, exactly.
Plus, like you again they were very heavy-handed with the
crush, because you also had the scene you pointed out earlier
where like Maddox was clearly staring at Ashlyn.
Like it's it's yeah, it's there. It's been there since the
rainbow close. I think Ashlyn was still
figuring it out, but I think Maddox fully felt those feelings
wrecked. Because one of them is, has been
in their queerness longer than the other.
Like, yes, and there it's a journey.
Like, but it's, it's, it's. There, Maddox probably hated
that she had a crush on Val and not her in the beginning.
Well, yes, probably. So when they wrote their names
on the wall after their performance, Ashlyn first wrote
hers, and she has a little heart at the end of it.
But then Gadget after Jed but after Ashlyn is the important
part. Writes hers right next to
Ashlyn's name and puts a heart in front of it so it looks like
their hearts are together. Already and Gadget is Maddox's
camp nickname. Oh yeah, thank you.
Yeah. So it gets interchangeable in
the show, but it again, it's all there but the end.
The end of the stock you. Ready.
Where's my favorite and like what moment?
They don't understand. OK, so this is what they choose
to end the trailer. On OK, it's so.
Weird. So not only is this in the
trailer, this is what they end it on.
So big red pops on the screen. I don't even know when they even
interviewed. He's not even in this.
He's not in the camp. He's not in the show, right?
So it just ends with him saying I'm Big Red, I'm Ashton's
boyfriend and I'm bi. Everyone's face is just like.
OK, but I love Ricky and Ash would look at each other and
Ricky's like, they're like, good for him.
Yeah, they're like, OK, sure, whatever.
But so random and just like out of nowhere.
But I love it. And I love that Ash was just
like, oh, good for him. Yeah, it's like this cute.
Realize they're cured this year. Yeah, and they're just
supportive of their friend, and I love that.
But now I kind of want to watch an episode where all the
characters watched the High School Musical, the musical, the
series together and react to it. Because I.
Feel like they saw this. They'd be like, what the hell?
It'd be cute, but yeah. Anything else about season 3?
That was season three season three's fun.
And queer. Yes, it is.
Yeah, yeah. It was what made me actually
watch a show. I bet.
Excuse me? So I think that's it for this
season. Yeah, but before we sign off, we
need to rate this with our Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale,
which is a super scientific product of gay science, an
accurate measurement for determining how valuable a piece
of queer media is to the Queer Media Library.
Why are we hydrating? Because queer media, like water,
is essential for life and it keeps you fresh and young and
invigorated. So Caitlin, based on the Lesbian
Jesus Hydration Scale scale one to 10, how much would you
hydrate for High School Musical The Musical The Series, Season
3? 7 1/2.
Good. I was going to say 7.
Yeah, I think this has the most queerness I like.
Ashland's journey was really good.
You got Maddox and her drama, which was good.
Val Big is supportive. Ally Carlos is in there because
he has, like the gay man stereotype, body type issues
that were also discussed we discussed in another episode,
but that happens here too. Big Red's random confession at
the end, like, there's just a lot.
I thought it was good and it sets up the next season to be
queer also, which I appreciate personally.
So and then it's not clear, but like the mental health was a big
thing. And this is the first season
that felt like its own thing, so I appreciate that overall, so.
Yeah, it gets better as it goes. I see some people say that after
season one it goes downhill or like they should have end the
show when Olivia Rodrigo left and I'm just like no.
The show should have began when she left like she was annoying.
OK, so if you made it this far in this episode, we want to
know. I'm going to give you a secret
word that we want to challenge you to use in a comment or
podcast review without looking up the spelling.
That is the important part. You can't look it up.
So today's secret word is SU Brett, and it means a high
female vocal range or an actress in an opera with such a vocal
range. How fitting.
All right guys, let's test your spelling skills in the comments.
We will continue with our High School Musical, the Musical The
Series Journey next time when we cover Season 4, but until then,
hydrate for lesbian Jesus. And gay it up all over the
place. Bye, bye.