Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora.
And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda
today, Theora? Well, today we are finally,
finally, finally going to talk about red, white and royal blue.
Woo Hoo. Yay.
Yeah. So because of the strike, we
couldn't. We didn't want to do this
sooner. Slash when the movie came out
because scabbing is not cool. So we've waited to do it now and
we're going to talk about the movie and the book together
because there's some fun differences and similarities and
stuff, and we figured we'd just do it all in one episode.
So if you have or have not seen or read the book, like we're
going to talk about both of them.
So just a warning, you're planning on watching reading one
and don't want to be spoiled. So make sure you've read the
book if you want to read that book.
Yeah, exactly. So, And you mind spoilers.
If you don't mind spoilers, that's fine.
Welcome Yeah 'cause we're going to talk about all of it.
So what is red, white and royal blue?
If you're not familiar, it is. It first started as a novel
novel written by Casey Mcquiston, and it was recently
adapted into a film on Amazon in 2020, released in 2023.
Overall, what it's about, it's this.
Like I'm going by mostly the book when I'm describing this.
So it's like a Rivals to lovers. ROM Com starring Alex Claremont
Diaz, who is the current son of the President of the United
States of America and Prince Henry of England.
Not the Crown Prince, but like the second Prince.
These two were basically public figures since they were children
and the rivalry. Started a little differently
depending on if you watch the movie or read the book.
So it starts when Alex was in the book when Alex was 13 due to
a royal snub at the Rio Olympics.
If you watch the movie, it started at the 2021 Melbourne
Climate Summit in in in the movie.
It's a few years before the movie starts, but since
regardless of how it starts, since that time, the two have
been fostering this rivalry until fate intervenes.
And the two reunite at the royal wedding of Prince Philip, who's
Henry's older brother and like the Crown Prince, and a $75,000
cake incident ensued is caught on camera.
Because that's the basis of everything though, yeah.
Use social media. It's really the the catalyst.
It's like Archduke Ferdinand's assassination or the cake
incident. Yeah, so it's a little less
murdery, but. Politically pretty damning.
So because of those, the two are forced into this PR scheme where
they have to behave as best Bros, and through this ruse, the
two get to know each other better.
Oh, so much better. Amazing.
Very much better. Intimately if you.
Will. Intimate.
Intimately, indeed. So before we just straight up
spoil scenes, I thought we'd start with just like who Who is
your favorite character? Or like we'll start our favorite
character. Did you have a favorite
character in the movie or book? Doesn't matter.
I guess. Caitlyn, go since I saw your
mouth open. No, you can go.
No, I was just going to say Henry, period.
I just. I have a thing I may have an
obsession with, like English history and different time
periods in English history, you know?
So I Henry's going to be my obvious favorite.
Plus, he's just sarcastic and adorable.
I mean, they're both great, but I'm Alex over Henry.
I know I will, obviously. But neither one is my favorite.
Who's your favorite? Zara and Amy.
OK. OK.
That track for Caitlin? They're, I just really like
their lives their their humor is freaking hilarious.
And I just there's one point where I think.
Alex tells Zara Like, I could kiss you right now.
And she's like, touch me and die now.
That one, that was all, yeah. What about you see?
I I agree with Henry. Henry is my favorite.
I Alex. So I do like his character and I
especially like him in the book because you get both of them in
the book really, 'cause you get more in depth about like why
they are the way they are. And the book is written in
Alex's point of view. So you're very much in Alex's
head. And like the first time I read
it, I was like, wow, Alex is really like full of himself.
And I don't know if I'm digging this, but like to contrast him
with Henry, who's very repressed.
I like the repressed character usually.
That's who I enjoy. That is our jam.
My jam and to prep for this episode.
I want to do a little show and tell with the collector's
edition of the book because I there's extra chapters in it
from Henry's point of view and there are, but I just kind of
want it for those watching at home if there's a collector's
edition and this thing is beautiful.
So if you're a big fan of this and you weren't aware, I highly
recommend going to get those. It's really cool.
So if you take like the cover off just it's blue, it's hard
cover and it says. History, huh?
And on the back that we could make some like it's so cute and
I love that. And this came out before the
movie. On the inside cover, backside
cover, there's illustrations of them the.
Turkey. Turkey.
It's so. I wasn't expecting this to be so
freaking cute, but like, the ones on the back too.
Like, no, I like that one, yeah. I love that the history, huh, Is
on it, 'cause it's such a big part of the book.
I love it so much this. I'm very happy that thee is like
the mistress of finding what's on the under the books dust
covers. 'Cause she takes those off to
read them. Oh, I took it off.
And then I was like, what? Like I wasn't expecting that.
Yeah, 'cause I don't like to ruin the dust covers.
But you get an actually like I think 50 ish chapters and it
basically spans like five years. Oh, no, no, 50 pages.
Sorry, 50 pages. I was.
Like that's a white thing. There's there are chapters.
There's. Only 50 chapters in the book 50.
Pages, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to get everybody excited about
that. And it basically spans like five
years after the the book ends and it goes through like their
life and like. Spoiler They end up getting
engaged. And like, of course they do.
And it just goes. Henry's just having all these,
like, memories and it's getting his point of view is really
cute. He's just he's, I love him.
I thought it was his point of view, like during the book.
So that's interesting that it's like a continuation of it.
Yeah, but she switches to Henry, which is very cute 'cause you
don't really. So it's like them in New York
and like. Oh, did I say Alex?
I'm no, you said Henry. I just OK, cool.
I have a habit of mixing people's names up.
And and there's a queer spoiler at that section.
And I'll spoil you guys when we, like.
Get to it. Which is fun.
OK. OK.
All right. You.
Didn't really. David's not your favorite
Caitlyn. David's, also known as.
David. We didn't get enough of David
for me to like have him be my favorite like that's now if
David had his own scene in subplot like, but we saw Moore's
R and Amy. But I wish we also saw Moore
Beatrice in the movie. Yeah, I agree.
And the. Beatrice is so much more in the
book and it's just the relationships.
I have this in another section. It's really hard not to like
skip sections, I know. Anyway.
That's all right. Yeah, I agree.
I I I understand why the movie had to like cut things and
condense, which is why I'm glad we have the book 'cause it just
it flushes out a lot of other things where it's like, oh man,
I wish we had that, but for time wise I get why we don't.
Yeah, there's a reason why all the other plots were cut out
that I'll. Talk about Yeah, a lot of them
were super cut out. So Speaking of book versus
movie, let's jump first to Alex and Henry cause like they are.
The center of both things and very much the center of the
movie, for obvious reasons. So what did you think of their
rivalry, quote, UN quote, specifically between like the
book and the movie? So I have thoughts about this.
Wait, hold on. I'm just OK 'cause we we skipped
our favorite moments. Oh, oh, OK.
Yes. What's your favorite?
I I thought that was later, but that's OK OK, What was your
sorry, go back. What was your favorite moment of
the book Slash movie? Well, I mean, you brought up the
dog. So it was when Alex doesn't like
the name of Henry's dog, and then it ends up with him looking
at photos of Amy's dog and it's just the whole scene and the way
she's like, hey, I mind I forget what her dog's name is, but but
she's like. Alex says like, but he's really
cute. And she says yeah he is.
You want to see a picture? And then looking at pictures,
that was a cute. Moment in the movie.
It didn't exist in the book. I did like that.
Moment A. Lot.
Yes. I was very upset that that was
not in the book, so I'm really glad they added it because I've
the Amy took over cash. Yeah.
So, OK. So cash is.
In the book, Alex's main bodyguard and he's like a big
huge, like Texas guy and then Amy's there too as another
bodyguard slash Secret Service worker.
But it they just got rid of cash and just I think that's supposed
to be Amy. It is Amy.
In the movie, but they've erased all of Amy's character in the
movie. But I'll rant about that in
another section, because that's what I'm.
They didn't. Actually, they didn't.
It's not really mentioned or anything.
It's not. It's not explicit at all.
Right. So I didn't like that.
No, but it's Amy is played by a trans actor and they are very
they're a big advocate and do a lot of work for the community.
So that was my input for that. There's another thank you.
There is also when I know you were like.
And this isn't the book, not the movie, when I know Alex is full
of himself, but he doesn't want to hear the the tabloids.
He wants his sister to read him fan fiction about himself, and I
love that. And it just makes me wonder how
many people read fan fiction about characters they play.
I feel like you have to be curious.
Yeah. I mean, I think some, I think a
lot of people kind of go dabble into it a little and then
they're like, OK, I'm good now and you can.
Get to that one. And they're like, OK, we're just
going to put that away. Yeah, exactly.
But anytime fan fiction shows up in a story, a book or a movie or
whatever, I'm I'm there for it. So.
Yeah. All right.
Now to Alex and Henry, unless you guys have a favorite moment
you want to talk about. I do, but they're like I wrote
them out in later sections. I have favorite.
Scenes. Yeah, I'm waiting for the
turkeys. Don't worry.
Yeah, but I do. I do really love in the movie.
I agree with you. The the Amy, Alex moment on the
plane about looking at pictures of dogs.
That was one of my favorite moments.
That that was really cute and it wasn't in the book, which made
it more special. Honestly, my favorite, one of my
favorite moments in the book. It's probably the karaoke scene.
I prefer that scene in the book than the the movie 'cause
there's a lot more going on with the other characters and like
Henry's in like that robe. And yeah, I just, I like that
scene. It was much more of like an open
and free Henry cause of the context versus like the the
movie did it really quickly and it it like meant the same thing,
but it like it didn't have as much depth of like Henry really
being like unabashedly himself in that moment.
All the montages. You see in the movie are like.
Basically separate scenes in the book, yeah.
Totally. But Alex and Henry, I feel like
their rivalry is fairly similar in both things because, I mean,
it's based on them, but I feel like Alex seems more open to
being by in the movie than in the book.
Because it takes him a lot longer to like kind of accept
himself. And he was like trying to
convince himself he wasn't straight for a while.
Because in the book it says straight people, he thinks,
probably don't spend this much time convincing themselves
they're straight. I love that one.
It's such a good one. Go ahead, Break.
I was just going to say that. I really enjoy that they kept
the same. I guess I'll I'd call it flavor
of their rivalry and how I think you can tell that they read the
book that that I I really think the actors read the book.
So honestly it shows. So that was pretty much, yeah, I
just there were the moments that they they did have in both were
really done well. And I think that we're just kind
of people that really like all of the background info.
So there'll be times when we're like, well, it's a shame that we
don't get to see that so, but I I did think they kept the flavor
of the rivalry. Yeah, I think that's fair.
And the the, you know, again there's a 90 minute movie they
like had to condense a lot. So like the pacing in the movie
was good, which is not always the case in movies. 120 minutes,
that's. That's close to 90 minutes.
OK, 10 minutes off, I estimating, I said. 129 A
hundred. Oh, sorry, whatever, you know
what I mean. Versus a book like a not 400
plus page novel, like you know, you're gonna have to cut things
like obviously. So I think the pacing was really
good, which isn't always the case.
What I didn't really love is that like the I don't like how
they change the rivalry like when it started because in in
the movie 'cause they they made it like almost a couple years
before the movie starts. So it's like they haven't been
rivals for that long. Which doesn't like add to the
tension of the rivalries to lovers trope.
Because in the in the book that started when like Alex was 13
years old. So it's like been a decade that
they've like been in this situation where there's like
tension. And like, Alex, like kept a
picture of like, like from a magazine of Henry.
And he's like, I don't understand why, but I can't stop
looking at this picture. And it just, it added to the
whole tension part because it's been going on for so long.
I guess I in my brain I when watching the movie, 'cause I I
assumed that that was the case for some reason, Like, in my
brain, my brain went, oh, OK, so they've known of each other for
even longer than this, and I don't know why in my brain.
I just thought that. Yeah, no, they say it.
They say 2021 in the movie Everything.
I forgot that. I think I erased that part in my
brain. It makes more sense that if he
was 13, because it makes sense that he would hold a grudge over
one meeting. Yeah, I know exactly that.
And that's who Alex is. So like, yeah, I think that like
parts of Alex's personality kind of got erased when they made
that little change. And it just it it lessens the
rivalry part for me and like the tension part, it would have been
easy to just say that though, to just have that be a little bit
of background. It would be interesting, like I
want to know why they decided to change just that.
Yeah, I understand why they're like climate conference versus
like the Olympics. Because politics.
But I don't know why they had to be like 2 years before a year
before this movie started. I'm with Theo on this one again.
Yeah, so just for me, I prefer the long.
Tension building. So I didn't like that change.
But unless the timeline of the parents in the politics has
changed as well, well. Here's the deal, Like his mom
would have been president at that time in 2021 'cause she's
up for re election and it's 2023.
So, like, in order to be president, you have to be in
politics for like a very long time before you're president,
typically. Unless you're ATV star.
Yeah, for Taylor Swift and you're running for president.
But like Alex's mom because like he mentions too in the movie,
she's like you were the first female senator and like all
this. So like she's been in politics
for a long time. So easily it could have been
like, I was with my mom at this conference and I was 13, right?
Easily could have still kept that.
So I just don't because she would have had to been super
high profile within her party to even be considered for a
presidential run. Exactly but.
One SEC. Sorry, scene.
OK. Caitlin, what were you saying
before I had technical? Difficulties.
Well, I was going to talk about how in the movie, when Henry and
Alex first see each other again, Henry does snub him because Alex
was trying to be nice and be like, hey, how's it going or
something like that. And Henry just walks away from
him, yeah. Yeah, I'm like.
I'm sorry. I'm supposed to like Henry over
Alex right now. I understand why you guys like
him. I like him.
It's not like I don't like him. It's just that Alex tried
harder. He did and then drank too much.
But. Yes, it all went downhill from
there. Yeah, that was definitely more
overt in the movie, in the wedding scene, but yeah.
One thing I will add, so when talking just about their their
entire arc, like the rivalry to lover thing, one thing I liked a
lot better in the in the book too was like you mentioned the
quote where Alex was like trying to process all of this.
There's more processing that happens in the book versus in
the movie. In the movie he tells Nora and
he's just like I've already hooked up with a guy before.
So it was like he was kind of already there and it wasn't,
which I I kind of like the change because then it's not
about Alex coming out, which is totally.
He still did. Yeah.
I guess. Like he came out, but it's not
about him. Am I queer?
Am I not queer? It wasn't about that part.
It was just about I got publicly outed because of this
relationship. It was kind of that's what it
was. Which I I'm down for that angle.
Like we have tons of coming out stories.
Like I'm totally vied. The thing that I liked about his
process and journey in the book is then we get the wait, that
stuff I was doing with my friend young girl.
Oh yeah, the Liam, Liam character.
Oh my gosh. I'm like, wait a minute, how do
you not know that? If you do something which I just
love the, like, oblivious nature of that, from Alex's point of
view, he's like that stuff we were doing was that.
I don't care if you're practicing, it's still gay shit.
Listen, you say that, but I literally my best friend when I
was, you know, younger was like, it's OK, that doesn't make us
gay. And I'm like.
You're both gay, right? Huh.
You're both gay right now, aren't you?
Well, she's bisexual. OK, Queer.
Yeah, queer. But yeah.
So I like, I like the whole stuff with Travis.
And I liked Travis's character when Alex called him, he's like,
what the fuck are you calling like that character?
And the fact that Alex was like looking back through his life
and he's like. Wait, I've been doing queers off
the whole time I've been. Pretty gay.
I didn't even know it. That was a reason.
I mean, like, yeah. I was literally he was a so
that. Doesn't make me gay.
The guy was so, like, not very nice when he called.
I mean, to be fair, it's really weird to get a call from the
president's son out of the blue, who probably You knew that it
was gay shit and he didn't. And he was probably playing
you're like. Excuse me?
You didn't, right? Well, it's like, it's like, it
seemed like they parted ways, like, way back when And like,
Travis went on his gay journey and I was just like, I'm not
gonna think about this. And, like, so yeah, there's some
tension there, unresolved tension.
So it's not weird for Travis to be like, oh, what the fuck are
you calling me? Like I I get that his name is
Travis. Who is Liam?
Oh, Liam. Sorry, sorry.
It's over. I just wanted to make sure I'm
like, if I'm remembering this, there's a lot of characters in
the no, there's a lot of names and just like Travis, Texas,
like, it's just in my brain. So Liam, Sorry, Liam.
That's why I kept messing or doing heart stopper.
I kept calling Isaac in the meaning Liam 'cause I was
reading this book and I kept just mixing up the name, so I
apologize Liam, not Travis. There's no problem.
CR also just has trouble with names in general.
Yeah, I'm bad with me. I also, I also didn't read the
book. Read it.
So like I things commit to my memory better when I see it.
And yeah. Or you.
Listen to I can't. I was audiobooking this until I
found the collective Brain would just go.
What's it? What is that little dot on the
wall? And then I will miss half a
chapter, so I listen to them while I commute.
So like. Yeah, I mean, I would
understand. Yeah, that commute.
So anyway, so that's why I screw up names a lot.
Just I if I don't see it, it's harder to stick in my brain.
So sorry, Liam. That's why I put the subtitles
on TV now, 'cause I can remember people's names better now.
Oh my God, I need to do that with Wheel of Time, 'cause I
keep missing stuff. And I'm like.
What were those words, except for one thing in a future
episode, I'll tell you like it gave away like a.
Fairly big pot line for the episode.
I'm like, whoa, damn it, sometimes.
And then it switched back. So you did, in case you didn't
miss it, you missed. Yeah, whatever.
Anyway, also I put emails here, 'cause I wasn't really sure
where to put it, and apparently I thought that was like their
rivalry, because afterwards this is rivalry 2 lovers the whole
arc, so yeah. All right, so the emails I.
One thing I really enjoyed about reading all the emails in the
book was that they always signed it differently and the amount of
things that Alex came up with to do the acronym HRHI didn't write
them down, but like they're they're all hilarious and it's
never once His Real Highness but one of them.
One of Henry's emails is for first Son of making me spill my
tea instead early morning meeting and it's just it was
always great. And then they also include lines
from other public figures letters, which I find really
ironic considering their private letters and now theirs are out.
That's a really good point. Yeah, like the Hamilton one, but
I did like that in the book too, 'cause it.
Just it it. And again, it adds to the depth
of like queer historical people of existence.
It's forever. And also like, it shows how much
like the two of them really do care about history and things
like that, which I like that aspect of their characters.
But I that's funny. The irony of like, these are
private letters when you're reading them and they're about
to go public again. So Yep.
But I knew they were screwed when they're like emailing each
other. The shit.
I'm like guys, you never write the stuff down.
Like, yeah. Come now.
OK. The things that they wrote down
in those letters. Yes, the things they wrote down
in the letters. Oh dear Lord.
I mean, to be fair, if I was them I probably wouldn't think
about it either. But like you're sharing stuff
that's in covered under an NDA with each other who he
definitely doesn't have clearance to know about this
shit, yeah. And now the whole world.
Like the thing was that the world?
Knows about in those letters. Oh, they know.
They know many things. Why did Henry spill the tea?
Guys? They all know.
Like they talk on the phone too. Why didn't they just talk?
Because you always want to be talking to each other.
It doesn't matter if it, like you can't talk on the phone all
the time, so. I meant the secretive stuff.
There's no. Paper trail.
That would be smart. But they were having hormones
and that that makes you not smart.
They were having horny thoughts, Caitlin.
That doesn't lead to good brain activity.
I mean, it's easy for us to say after the fact, right?
So or not being in their position, yeah.
Yeah, put us in their position. See what happens.
All right. So one thing I want to talk
about that's I guess book versus movie is the White House Trio
stuff. So the White House trio does not
exist in the movie. So the characters in who
composed the White House trio are Alex, obviously Nora and
then June Claremont Diaz, who's Alex's sister who was cut out
completely from the movie. So I just wanted to what were
your thoughts on like the existence and non existence of
the White House Trio? OK so my the first thing I ever
wrote for this section is like I that I get the time is limited.
But I really wish that there was a subplot for the other
characters because it raised. So much in the book, and I get
that the book is big, but then I read something that the director
said that he always wanted to be just Alex and Henry, so anything
that wasn't centered around them was going to get cut.
Because basically he was a huge Matthew Lopez was the director
and is the director and he's a huge fan of the books.
And this is. Basically his fan art for the
book, so he's like Alex and Henry all the way.
However, I still would like the other characters.
I want a whole last other movie for the other characters.
I do too. And I'm like, even if there was
a sequel, you still couldn't do all the things that like when it
happened, when they were outed because of all those secrets.
And it's just there's so much that happened that they couldn't
even do. But I would like to see.
A spin off for Beatrice and Nora.
Anyway, I think that it's OK that they combined June and
Nora, but they needed they needed to change Nora more.
They needed to make her closer to Alex and the sister figure.
Because one of the things that was so meaningful is that.
In the book that Alex and Henry both had an older sister that
they wanted to protect themselves and so they bonded
over that connection as well and they just don't have it.
Yep. So there's.
The less that connects them, yeah.
The the Nora, Alex thing didn't read.
I feel the way it was supposed to.
It didn't seem like a strong bond for all the reasons you
just said. And it was it like Nora And in
the movie, the way they explain why Nora's there is, they're
like she's the daughter of the vice president.
So, like, that's the same kind of thing of being to me as the
Rio Olympics to the 2021 climate conference change it.
It reduces the depth of their relationship because it sounds
more like situational, like they're forced together because
their parents are in office versus like they were childhood
friends too, like Nora and Alex. And like they grew up together
and like they dated a little bit and like when he gets in the
publicly outed, she's the beard for she volunteers to be the
beard for a minute. And so like it shows how much
trust and and everything is between the two of them.
And I feel like it just completely goes away in the
movie. And it's just like, it's almost
like Alex is completely by himself, like more so in the
movie than he is in the books. But like they don't really dive
into his like isolation plot line, which I loved in the book.
So like it like, I don't know. Nora was like there to deliver
lines to Alex versus like a person, which I didn't like.
Nora had she. Very cool.
Character. She was just not giving it up.
Like at what point we forget about her in the movie?
I feel like, was she even there at the election in the movie,
'cause I don't, she didn't have a line.
I don't remember. She might have been sitting on a
couch, but like, yeah, there's no lines for Nora.
I understand cutting June. Like I really do.
Like, if you're just trying to make this all about Alex, like
sure, cutting June is was fine. But yeah, like Nora was not the
same, like character or like did not have the same kind of
familial relationship with Alex that she should have had if
you're combining if you're cutting June.
Because like they were the the two of them were his support
system like you know so it's just like Alex had no support
system and it didn't seem to matter in the in the movie which
is weird because that was a yeah Alex said his support system.
Was so huge. Someone that understands him and
that's there for him. Yeah, besides Henry because,
like, he needs someone to talk to, right?
It reads very surface on screen. Exactly.
Yeah, it's 2 dimensional. It's really sad, yeah.
And like Beatrice too. Like she's kind of bit she's
again, which I understand in the movie why Beatrice is also like
2 dimensional. She has she's like Nora, she's
just like their digital reliance to Henry.
But because like this is mostly from Alex's point of view, like
even the movie reads it's like an Alex point of view thing.
So like, Beatrice isn't going to be even less of a thing in the
movie because like, it's mostly set around Alex, really.
And then Henry kind of orbits Alex.
What I had to do is I had to think of the movie as a fan
fiction. Once I realized like that
Matthew was like a huge fan of the book and that's basically
what he was doing, I was like, OK, if this is a fan fiction,
this makes sense of why these characters barely have anything
to do with it because you erase stuff basically like you just
the center does. Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's so
good. That's really what it does.
The movie is super a fan fiction.
Yeah, So it it definitely it helps I think.
But you have to have read the book as well, because I think
this is kind of AI like that. You got to read the book first,
see, because it's more of like when I watch something, I like
watch it and then go read the fan.
Because you're not going to read the fan fiction before you see
the show. Yeah.
Exactly. This.
Yeah. It's basically backwards here.
Yeah, I got the Canon, then the fan fiction movie.
Yeah, so, OK, so we didn't get June and Nora really the O GS in
the movie, but like, what did you think of them, I guess,
overall as characters? Just real quick, the book does a
great job explaining the roles of each of them, which yeah,
yeah, yeah. So Alex pushes them, definitely.
Alex pushes everybody. He does.
June studies them and Nora keeps them honest.
And these are all pillars of like things that.
They need and so like that's what we're missing basically in
the movie. But I really loved the three of
their relationship because, I mean they're very isolated in
the sense all of them because of who their families are.
So them being together and being so close to the point where Nora
is willing to date Alex just to be his beard and.
I think it was June. June is Henry's beard.
Yeah, exactly. It's just it was so meaningful
in the book. And I do love them.
I love the relationship of all of them.
Yeah, I agree. I hit the nail head.
I like that they tried to keep Nora's, like, nerdiness in the
movie, too, 'cause she's like this data whiz.
And they did try to keep that. Like, some of her language was
like, well, statistically, you're like 99% bisexual or
like, whatever. Or like, like, they kept that
kind of language in there to be like, yeah, no, it's Nora the,
the data girl, 'cause that was her.
That was her big contribution to, like, the campaign.
Like, she did all the numbers for, like, polling numbers and
things like that. And she's like a really
important person in the campaign, in the books.
And so they kind of kept that, but like, again erased her paw
and they. Kept the drinking game?
Yeah, that too. Yeah.
So and then I love June and Nora and Alex for the all the reasons
you said that the support system.
And I like that you brought up the fact that something all the
characters I think really have in common, like the three of
them, the White House trio and then Henry, Beatrice, maybe Pez
to an extent is that they, they're high profile people.
So because of that they're in the public eye and so they have
this. I think they end up bonding over
that because they they they're in this unique position where
like you have bodyguards and like you're you're limited about
where you can go and like who you can talk to and you have to
sign Ndas and things like that. So I think that like that helps
foster the ultimate friendship all of them make with each
other. And so yeah I just, I like them
a lot as characters and and Nora's like a queer person and
kind of helps Alex through his journey a little bit and they're
just right or die friends, you know.
I love that about them. I feel like Nora really wasn't
that queer in the books either, though.
No, I feel like, well, that's a gripe I have later.
The movie erased a lot of the other queerness in my mind.
It might have been there but not discussed, but like the book is
way queerer than just like Alex and and Henry, but like I don't
remember. Her like that really being
addressed, Nora. In the book, yeah, they
definitely talk about like, it's like it's mentioned like her and
Alex talk about it, all right. Sounds like I don't think she
has AI. Don't think she has a label, but
she's like definitely fluid or and.
Stuff like that. I love Caitlin.
All right, fine. I don't.
Know it was. It was a long book and I you
can't remember everything. Yeah, I've only read it once, so
like, I can't argue it. Because there's so much like
there's so much to basically I can remember the scene.
I didn't remember that they went to a museum in the movie.
So but it was there's too many scenes.
So let's continue. Speaking of scenes, I hope you
remember the 75,000 cake disasters.
The one that's all the posters. Yeah, the one that's in your
face. OK, so I I thought this was a
notable scene to talk about because it's like the PR scheme
that really, like, kicks off. This is what you told me about
this movie. Like, this is the only thing I
knew going into watching this movie is the $75,000 cake.
Yeah. So basically like, it's the
wedding cake at Phillip and his. I forget the woman, Margaret, it
doesn't matter. And his wife's cake or whatever
at the royal wedding and Alex and Henry of course are get into
a kerfuffle and they knock over the cake and it gets leaked to
social media cause of phones and the press and stuff.
And so the PR scheme is born from this and the importance of
this is that Alex's mother is up for re election so it's she's
ending her first term as president.
And so in the United States, you only get to run, be president
twice, basically. And so she's just kicking off
the campaign. And So what a wonderful time for
her son to, like, topple over the royal wedding.
Cake. I mean, that's what you have
kids for, right? To bring interesting stuff.
And keep you on your Oh my God. OK, so.
I have a guess about this scene though.
Do it. All right, Let's hear it.
Because I feel like the media blew this out of proportion.
Like cake. Cake.
Come on. All right, They're acting like
Alex went into this building was like that cake.
I do not like it. Let me push it down.
All right? No, it was a freaking accident.
OK, maybe you shouldn't use it as a drink table and get icing
on your hand and then get the icing all over the Prince,
because probably not so. But I believe Henry also puts
the glass on the cake. So it is equally their fault.
However, it was an accident and I think that the royal people
were not that smart because they should have just had a fake
foamy cake and had one little spot that was actually cake for
the. Couple to cut out and like you
know smash in the face, but that's probably not really and
so. That's American.
That's an American idea. Whatever, I don't care.
Okay And then had a bunch of sheet cake in the kitchen cut up
and it would have been a lot. That's the most American thing
I've heard. We got a bunch of sheet cake in
the kitchen. I'm just saying like it would
have been cheaper. It would have not had this
incident happen. Oh, but their secret would have
been out because they would have sheet cake instead.
Yes. You can't have sheet cake if
you're if you're royal. Didn't you know that I love the
whole point is? Extravagance.
Yes, I love Caitlyn. The fact that you're so charged
up about the fake, the scene, and the fictional PR thing,
that's my favorite part. Because I went into looking at
the most expensive cakes for this scene like so, I was
curious. So Prince William and Kate's
cake cost 80 grand. Jesus Christmas, Diana and
Charles. Charles.
They had like 27 cakes I believe, and one cost 56 grand
or 60 something like that. It might be 90 something.
And then hold on, let me get this because this is ridiculous.
This wasn't an actual wedding, but it was like the Big Gay
Wedding Show. OK, there is either.
I think it's fifty $50 million. How cake?
Why do that? There was crystals on it also.
I didn't want crystals or something.
No, no, I think so. Another person had Swarovski
crystals on their cake. Was.
At least it wasn't on their person like Doji Cat.
And This is why we're all poor guys.
It was well said. Equality.
Oh, it was Gucci Mane. Oh.
My God, Keisha. Gross.
I believe they had 2500 Swarovski crystals in between
each of their tiers, so they're OK.
So that makes sense. Because it wasn't they weren't
eating them. But it if you just look OK, if
anybody listening watching go, just look up National Gay
Wedding Show cake. It cost $52 million.
Yeah. It does not look like it should
cost that much. I don't understand how this
costs that much. Caitlyn, you're going to have to
put up a an image of the cake. I just sent it to you.
I mean for the people, they can do the work, the audio people
have to do the work. We'll decide later, but it just
makes no sense. There was it was an 8 tiered
cake decorated with a meager. That's what the article says.
Meager 4000 diamonds. And that's why there's fucking
gems in it. It looks like.
Looks like something I can get at the grocery store exactly
this is like it does not look. Grocery store cake?
No, I'm not. Saying mess up the bottom cake,
but like, I'm sure a lot of work went into this.
I just don't understand where all the crystals are.
Like, are you eating the crystals?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm sure whoever made
this spend an enormous amount of time doing it.
But yeah, where? What the heck.
Everything on the cake needs to be edible.
Exactly because Or like are people, like, painstakingly
taking off crystals and then selling them on the black
market? I don't know.
You get to keep the crystals and take them home.
Or was did no one eat the cake and it was just for shell?
Oh, I mean, there's that too, $52 million.
Well, we could have bought a lot of queer media.
At least we could have done a lot of we could have started a
production company. Yes, well, at least Alex and
Henry did not ruin a $52 million gig.
It was only 75 grand. Sorry for the car for a royal
wedding. The detour continue.
It's just a super classic ROM com type scene and that's why
it's my favorite. Just because it as soon as that
happened, it's when I knew I'd like the movie and I was, it's
when I got really into it, is when all that went down because
it was so it was so classic. If you don't get that in queer
ROM coms like they're they're usually not that.
I mean, it's cheesy, but it's well executed and that's the
point in my head. I was just like, wonder what
it's like to have a huge cake like that fall on you.
And then I just really wanted to have a food fight.
Well, maybe after the strike we can ask the actors.
Yes. OK, so another another scene I
kind of wanted to talk about that I think was big and
monumental is like the hospital. So then after the cake incident
they do APR joint PR thing. At a hospital, a Children's
Hospital. And I think this is where you I
for me when you first start to see like the depth of Henry.
So in the book and in the movie, Henry purposely goes into the
cancer ward. So in the movie you see him
talking to this girl and she has like a headscarf on and like
indicating that like she has leukemia and things like that
so. And in the book you want I think
in maybe in both it's the reason he does that pretty habitually
is because his father died of cancer, pancreatic cancer to be
specific. So Henry to pay homage to him
visits like cancer wards. And I think for me, the fact
that he does it so often, really like you start to see like the
depth of Henry's grief really over his father because like
they were really close and things like that.
Yeah, I really liked the scene. It was just very cute.
One thing in the book I feel like you see more than not
really thinking about it as APR stunt, like they weren't there
for the cameras, where in the movie I feel like they're it
looks like it was just more for show.
You did get that like short shot of Henry with the kid, but.
And and Alex too. He does like a reading of a
puppet show or something. In the movie.
Oh yeah. It's really quick.
But yeah, it's just not enough. And it was just like that whole
thing of them, like not even realizing, like the kid falls
asleep next to Alex, I believe. And like, they're just with them
for so long and you just don't get that much in the movie,
which I mean again, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
You, like we said, you lose the depth of.
You lose the depth of it, and you lose some of the
characterization. So unfortunate, but there you do
with the loss of Henry's father, have you get this?
I guess it kind of like identified with him in that
aspect. When he's going to, you know,
like this isn't just going to see sick kids for him, it's a
way to connect with. People that understand, you know
his grief and where where his sorrow over his father's.
It's almost like a a healing thing.
Yeah, totally. So I totally get that and I
enjoyed that whole aspect. OK, one little thing that is
missing and like, yeah, things are going to be missing from the
movie, obviously. But thing in the book that was
mentioned that I loved is when Henry's talking to that child
and he's trying to comfort her. And he's like, they start
talking about Star Wars, which comes up multiple times in the
books about Henry, like Henry, like Star Wars.
And she mentioned something about like the girl, he started
to mention something about wanting to kiss Han Solo.
And he's like, I think you have the right idea.
And OK, So what I love about this is, first of all it's like,
I see you girl like. And Alex is compared to Han Solo
a lot during the the books. So it's like.
Foreshadowing and I love that Henry's like love of Star Wars
is really, it gives you a good hint of his character.
Cause the whole point of Star Wars and like siding with like
Han Solo and like the Rebels quote UN quote, is that the
Rebels were like against the Empire and the Empire AKA the
British Empire. So it's interesting that the
Prince of England is like, yeah, go rebels.
When in that context like he would be the empire, so I I do
like that it it tells you kind of like who Henry is, where his
values lie, 'cause he does things in the books like start
like youth centers and things like that.
Like he goes, he doesn't take the royal money like he he he
doesn't act like a typical like heir to the throne, I guess.
And so the other comparison I love is that Alex catches on to
this and like then Henry gets like the Leia comparison cause
again Princess Royalty of the Rebels.
So I love that with Henry and I I just love that that banter
like just continues 'cause they there are definitely parallels
between like those two characters.
So I like that it starts here, like in the cancer ward and it
just like kind of keeps going throughout the book.
It's cute, very cute. And that's the thing about.
Injecting pop pop culture references into books.
For me, there has to be like a really good reason for it to be
there, and there's a really good reason.
So 10 out of 10. Hi, hi, hi.
Sorry. They're just singing to you.
They are. Did we go through them in the
closet? I'm going to go back, OK?
OK. Because this circling back that
just tied in got it. I I was like I don't think she
said all of this. So that's why.
Yeah. So if that's all for the cancer,
I'm going to go to the next scene.
All right, so after they're done with the cancer, like, while
they're in between all of that, there's an incident where loud
noises happen and it's potentially gunfire.
So the Secret Service slash their bodyguards basically, just
like, shove them in a closet. Like the irony of that I love
while they handle the situation to make sure like the two are
not in actual danger. And what I love about this scene
is that this is really the first time ever, regardless of book
movie, that they are alone, out of the public eye.
Like it's the very first time. And I think this is the moment,
a moment where Alex really sees behind Henry's mask, because a
lot of the the tension from Alex's point of view is that.
Henry appears a certain way. You know, he appears very like
standoffish and like not. And he's always like he's not
even human. He like doesn't have a
personality and all this stuff. But it's like Henry's a royal
and he's, he has to act a certain way in public.
And this is the very first time they're not in public.
And so Alex sees Henry kind of like the real Henry for the very
first time and to me like. The the humanity of Henry in the
scene all circles back to like why they're in this hospital in
the 1st place. It it comes back to the death of
Henry's father. And the reason the snub happened
in the 1st place that Alex has been harboring this grudge over
is that Henry was upset over his father's death and he's like I I
couldn't be around anybody at that time.
Like I was so lost in my grief and it's something that Henry
carries forever is the grief of his father.
And so like to have the contacts, Alex is finally like,
oh. Well, now I kind of like I was
kind of being a Dick to you. I like, I just didn't know that
part. And there's parts during towards
the end of the book, after they deal with the public outing
where Beatrice and Alex together are discussing Henry's grief.
And I think it comes it like comes back to this very first
moment when Alex learns about this.
Beatrice mentions to Alex that. Henry, Henry and her were very
young when their father died. And she's like the type of grief
that that Henry feels that we were feeling basically, like we
were feeling it at a time where like your brain isn't even fully
developed at that time. And it's like impossible to cope
with that kind of grief. And it's why Henry, throughout
the book, throughout the movie, has these dark days and these
depressive episodes. And Beatrice basically says that
it's it's all because back to this trauma, 'cause, you know,
Henry doesn't know how to cope with, like, bad things when they
happen now, 'cause he was so severely traumatized at this
time when he didn't know how to deal with it.
And that kind of stuck with him and having this bad thing happen
so young. She's basically like every time
he feels something bad, like everything bad feels so
monumental, just like the loss of his father.
So it's very easy for Henry to just spiral more than the
average person. And he's somebody who's always
going to carry the grief. And that's just who Henry is.
And what's so beautiful about this.
When Alex hears the the full extent of this later with B,
he's basically like, I like he doesn't judge Henry for that.
It doesn't turn him away from Henry at that point.
He's known him for so long that he's like, I just want to
understand what's happening, but.
Alex understands that. He kind of can't.
It's like it's something that Henry's always going to have and
he's like I I love him regardless with the grief and
all. And he just gets into this
position where he's like, I just have to learn to support you and
you're having dark days and things like that.
So it's like this is something that haunts Henry his whole
life. And Alex, once he really starts
to understand that, like, this big thing really shaped Henry
into who he is, he just really learns to like.
Love him with all his flaws and like, learn to support him when
he's feeling like that rather than like start another rivalry,
you know? Yeah, I mean, I really like that
them getting forced into the closet, like, really forced them
to talk because, I mean, the biggest thing is that he
misunderstood Henry. Because I need to get out of
here is definitely different than Get Me Out of here, Yeah.
And I feel like if Alex would have.
Heard those words, Maybe he wouldn't have felt the same way.
But I think because of his anxiety of being there, 'cause
he talked about how this was in the movie, 'cause this, this was
this the book. It wasn't like this, but that
this was his first time out in public.
So he was like kind of like counting on, which is also weird
because he's he was definitely in past things, but whatever.
But for the kind of the purpose of that scene in the movie, he
was hoping that Henry could help him through it.
But so they're both just at very hard parts of their life right
now. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, there is no way for them to actually know those
deeper things in those moments, So it made sense.
I do like that in the movie, neither of them was actually an
asshole to the other. Yeah, only misunderstanding.
So it was like very easy to absolutely.
Oh, OK, so you're not an asshole, it looks like.
The banter that happens when they think that is fun, and I
wouldn't erase that, I like that.
Not at all. It was great speak Speaking of
tension. Misunderstandings.
Let's talk about the Thanksgiving Turkey scenes.
I know, Caitlin. I have thoughts about.
This is my longest seed I have notes for.
I know I'm excited for this. I want, I want to to hear all of
your thoughts. Do you want to go first, Theora?
OK first of all I just want to set the scene if you haven't
like if you haven't read and or watched the book so in the in
the movie. Basically, it just, it's very
fast. It's just Alex is on the phone
with Henry and they're talking on the phone, OK And he's got
this big Turkey in his room because in America there's this
weird America. We have to prove her merciful
while celebrating the slaughtering of the indigenous
people by not killing two turkeys ceremonially and then
later eating Turkey. So it doesn't make any sense.
It's like this big show of like. We're merciful and it doesn't
make any sense. So it's it's a thing pardoning
of the Turkey where the president pardons selected
turkeys and they just get to live their happy Turkey lives.
So in the movie Alex has the Turkey and he's on the phone
with Henry and he's complaining that the Turkey is scary and
he's like it's in my room and blah blah blah.
And then like they go on to have like a a very long phone
conversation. OK.
In the movie you missed the full context of that scene though
cause in the book. Alex is a lot more politically
involved, and when it comes time for the pardoning of the Turkey,
he learns that the what they normally do is they house the
turkeys in their own separate hotel room.
So it cost the taxpayers a bunch of money to house the turkeys.
And he's like, that's stupid, What a waste of money.
Just keep them at the White House.
And he convinces his mom to save money by putting them in his
room. So the fact that the turkeys are
in his room is Alex's idea. So in the movie just looks he
looks like he. Just got dumped in his room, but
it's like they're in there because of Alex and he literally
begged her to put him in. Exactly.
It's yeah, he this is 100% his fault because he asked for this
explicitly. So that is lost in the movie and
makes this whole thing funnier for me.
And because he's so freaked out about the Turkey, he calls Henry
and it is the very first time they talk on the phone.
So that context is also lost in that scene in the movie.
So I have a problem with it because it removes the
importance of the fact they're on the phone with each other.
And that was actually really huge because they had never
really done that before. And it turns into this extremely
long phone conversation they have, and it's a very meaningful
moment. That is, the context is lost in
the movie. And I don't like that because I
think that context is really, really important for like their
relationship, pacing and development.
OK, Kaitlyn, take it away. The first thing I say is that
the scene needed to be a lot longer because it is is so good.
I love the book scene so much. It's good.
I love that Alex is so stressed out because it's his fault that
the turkeys are in his room. But he's that's not why he's
stressed out. He's stressed out because the
turkeys won't stop gobbling and he thinks that they're gonna
pull a Jurassic Park and kill each other if he leaves the room
or kill him if he sleeps in the room.
And I have a part of this and I'm just gonna read this how I
think it's in his head. In his head?
Or is this what he calls? No, no.
It's text. OK, so this is what I'm
thinking. His brain is going like, they
know he texts Henry. They know I have robbed them of
five star combinations to sit in a cage in my room.
And the minute I turn my back, they're going to feast on my
flesh. So basically, he has guilt about
eating Turkey for Thanksgiving. Oh.
Yeah, 100% in the in the book it's two turkeys.
In the movie I believe it's 2 Turkey.
So also I forget what the one is it cranberry.
I was just thinking that. What were their names?
Was it like corncob and like? No.
Kitchy. I can't remember.
No. The one Turkey's name is called
stuffing, which I feel like you shouldn't name a Turkey stuffing
because it's kind of like Turkey stuffing.
It's like naming a pig bacon, yeah.
That's pretty fucked up. Yeah, so, so American, though
I'm gonna name you after your ultimate destination and then
pardon you from that destination, it's so.
Funny, I'm pretty sure it's like cranberry sauce and stuffing or
something like that. It's stupid.
But there are leaves. Why are there always leaves when
Henry pops up into the room? Leaves.
Oh yeah, leaves Heart stopper reference.
Yes, it's all one cinematic universe.
Guys, All right, so we started with the tree in Exo Kitty with
those those. Like there's a tree in this
thing. Yeah, kissed by a tree.
And then we got the leaves and heart stopper, and now there's
more leaves and trees. So basically, leaves and trees
mean you're gay. Yeah, we have a whole
conspiracy. How?
Leaves in Grey's Anatomy, where she realizes she's like when I
put my glasses on for the first time, I could see the leaves.
Oh yeah, actually I had that moment in real life though, with
actual leaves and glasses. But it's because you're gay,
Caitlin. I was like, you're gay, 12 And I
was like, my God, the trees have leaves on them anyway, but like,
we were robbed. Yeah, we.
Were robbed of Alex trying to make Henry listen to the Turkey
God, Yeah, that was so funny. I.
Just looking. Oh my God, nothing.
It's just like, Oh yeah, they sound ferocious.
Yeah, it's. I needed that asleep.
It was the cute scene. I needed that in movie form.
I feel like they could have totally pulled it off.
I mean there's they're really good with comedic timing.
He should. They should have just had like,
they're going to eat me. Yeah, right after me.
Listen to it and then nothing happens.
Like they could have done it really quickly.
And they oh, it was such a wonder.
If they did and they just cut it.
Oh my gosh, send us the bloopers, please or extended,
please. We do have bloopers.
Did you see them? There's a few.
Yeah, I haven't seen any. I want to say just released two
days ago. I just want to say one thing off
the leaves. One thing I did like because
again in this what made this particular scene in the book so
huge, was the fact that this is the first time they talk on the
phone, and it's such a long conversation that Alex has to
plug his phone in 'cause his phone was like dying during the
conversation. So what I do love is how they
kind of like did this in the movie versus like having like a
long distance phone call. I like that they had Henry there
with him because then it 'cause that's how it felt to Alex.
And there's internal monologue from him, like when he's laying
on the bed, I think, and talking to Henry and about to hang up
where he like kind of pictures Henry there and like what it
would be like. He starts thinking like, what
would it be like if Henry was with me?
So I do like that in the film because, like, that is what Alex
was thinking in the book. So I did like how they did that
versus like having like a split screen where it's like Henry in
his palace with David versus like Alex by himself with the
turkeys, and like just having a split screen.
I like that they put them together first of all, 'cause
then you get to see the actors acting together, which is way
nicer. But also like this is told from
Alex's point of view, and that is exactly what he was thinking
in that scene in the book. So I did like that twist, yes.
Also, I really liked how the sound editor edited it too, for
his voice to sound like go on. The phone.
And he was still there. That was really.
Clever it was. How like as a reader, like as a
as a as an audience member, like you're like it.
It just, ah, that was so good, 'cause yeah, I love it.
It drives a point home. Yeah, it drives a point home,
yeah. There's one thing that like irks
me though, is that they didn't have him plug his phone in so
Alex could have had his phone next to him and in like Henry's
spot. Because it didn't make sense
that he was like faced towards Henry with his phone behind him.
Because the sound. It would have been weird.
Yeah, that is true. Like if he had air pods in or
something, maybe that would have made sense.
Yeah. But yeah, you're right.
No, totally. Just one of those things, so.
Side note, in the book, Henry is watching The Great British Bake
Off at the same time. And if Netflix had bought this
movie instead of Amazon, there definitely would have been
cameos and footage of that show in it.
And we could have got them in Celebrity Bake Off, and that
would. Have been amazing and I need to
see them interact with Peru and Paul.
So if you haven't watched Bake Off, that's.
Oh my God, could you? All right, you know what?
I'm making my own fan fiction here.
They could. I love the kids.
Version the Great Junior British Bake Off thing.
They could have hosted like a hospital version one and like,
volunteered there and they were like the judges and like, that
would be so cute. That would be so cute.
All right, Caitlin's going to write that fan fiction, I.
Don't have time. Any ideas?
I give you people, take them and run.
Just tag us after you do it. Yeah, tag us if you write, write
that fan fiction. We want to read it, and with
that, we've been big Gay energy. If you like this episode, check
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