Hello and welcome to Big Gay energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora and I'm Caitlin come
along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of queer
media representation matters. And we're here to talk about it.
Hey everybody, welcome back to big game.
But club and today are going to say, yes, we will indeed today.
We're going to explore the world of girls of paper and Fire by
Natasha me on. And I will tell you, I read this
quite a while ago when it came out.
And then I read, when I picked it for our book club, I reread
it and then realized absolutely how much material in this was a
little bit. Triggering for, or would be
triggering for a lot of people. So I want to give everyone that
warning up at the top. There is a lot of references to
essay and abuse in this book because of the plot itself so
just be forewarned about that but otherwise let's get into it.
So let's do it. Got coffee, we're ready.
Coffee are super cool mugs. You've got killing Eve.
I've got may or may you have your drama?
I have killing a bug. Yes, you do.
And I have what you got. May you have the confidence of a
mediocre white guy. That's actually perfect for
those before us about it. So have you ever wanted to read
a fantasy book? With a lot of set in like an
Asian world, I always have and this was the first one I found
that that did that that had a queer romance at the center.
So The world is very interesting.
You have you have the different castes, so we will start with
paper casts, which is the lowest on the totem pole, and those are
humans and then you've got Europe.
So, why is my brain steel steel? Castile?
I want to say, silver for some reason Steel Cast, which is the
right part demon part. Men.
So these people / creatures would have attributes of both,
but as part demon they display animal-like features.
So they would have say the ears of of, you know, cougar or a
leopard and then a norm, like a human face, but a leopard tail.
So honestly, you know, now that you said that there weren't
enough cougars In this book. No, there were not, no just
passed, but you did it to me some more cats and book to so,
absolutely, which I enjoyed. But here's the last cast, the
last casts are the, why is my brain again?
I'm sitting like it's just demon straight up, do you think it is?
But that don't, they know they're called the demon
character Moon, cast moon. Was it my bad?
So bad at this today, I'm sorry. This book.
We read this book but it's been a minute, I promise.
And my notes, I have more notes, but I think I opened the wrong
one. Anyway, we could get it.
So, Moon cast are all demon, so they display.
More of the animal features and in a humanoid form.
So it would be like a bowl but in a humanoid body.
Yeah. So you've got features of both
and it was always kind of hard for me to imagine it in my head,
especially like the facial facial features that she
describes as she describes the king as handsome, right?
A handsome bullet, with the long elongated face and I'm like, I'm
handsome, I don't know, either. I was just picturing a bull's
head on a human's body and I was like, how is this handsome that
she's in this word correctly? She's so gay.
She doesn't understand what that means.
Almost don't know, but I need don't have just, I'm sure that
it makes sense in her head and I can kind of see it because I
think about that demon and Buffy season.
What season was that six the musical episode?
Oh yes that demon guy so I kind of think of his face Okay.
I can see that like the dancing demon.
Yeah, the musical. Yeah.
Anyway that's the start of season six.
Yeah. It's season six rushes for blood
so if you let us get into Buffy will talk about it all day.
But anyway, yes, literally. So let's talk about our main
character lay. Yes, she is a paper caste girl.
However she has these eyes that set her apart from all the The
other paper casts people and that they are super super golden
and beautiful. And they are so different.
That people assume that she might be part demon.
And this is what catches the eye of Steel Cast and moon cast
demons. I think the other aspect of her
eyes too is it's not just that but it's something about like
the god that they worship like daughter, whatever, like the
color of the eyes have to do with this.
So there's like Superstition around her to like in a
religious sense, you are correct.
Thank you for. Almost said, thank you for being
a friend but not to your being. Of course, we're all friends.
Even the everyone listening to this.
We're all friends. We're finding our yeah.
So Les is, it works in her parents or her mother will get
to her mother, but works in an herb shop with her father and
their employee, who is a still cast, which is unusual for a
still cast. To work for a paper cast person.
So that was kind of cool. I love Tian.
The still cast character. That is part of lace family
basically. Yeah, but lays mother was taken
by soldiers in a raid when she was very young and this has been
like a big source of trauma for her obviously and something that
is unfortunately going to repeat in her life because her eyes
catch the attention of I still cast person who, you know, the
woman that comes into the shop and sees her and I'm really
think that's how the general found out that she existed at
all and then then he comes into town and takes her just like her
mother was taken. Yeah.
What's interesting about that whole situation is they live in
a place called see Enzo and it's alleged it's like on the far end
of like the Empire and And so they're essentially a province
that is under the rule of like the monarchy Emperor situation
that's happening, but they're located regionally far enough
away that they're mostly left alone, which is how you can have
a situation where you have like the lowest caste, employing a
middle, middle, cast situation, and so they don't see.
They don't, they're not as like heavily under the boot of like
the king as much as the other areas that we see or like the
palace Is where we're mostly at. So they have periods of like
nothing happening where they're just happy and living their
lives. And then the King has to be like
remember who's your boss? If he sends his goons and
they're delaying wreak havoc and, and he rules with an iron
fist, basically. So that's a display of power,
it's like stealing her mom is just like, remember who's in
charge, is what it is and they do it through trauma and
violence and ripping families apart.
So, yeah, it is something that shapes lay and, unfortunately,
multiple times, like you said, It's disgusting.
It's very disgusting and also true to life in his, in the
historical sense because this is how people have This is how
humans have done things over the Millennia.
So these are the patriarchy does things.
That's it. Yes, it is about book is really
about the patriarchy, so down with the patriarchy, just FYI.
Yeah, but sole learns that she's being taken to the Palace to
become a paper girl. And A paper girl is basically
every year a group of paper cast girls are either put forward by
their families mostly or just like, lay was taken away from
their family. But you get, you know, the full
sense that either they're forced to come in some way shape or
form, even though some of them have been convinced by Society,
Since they were little that this was, you know, an honor for
them. To go to the palace and become a
paper girl, and be the Kings concubine basically.
So they're going to be the 8th human girls that he uses to show
everyone in his kingdom that he this is his power.
And this is an honor for them to serve him in this manner.
And this is the level that paper cast is on.
So look how happy these girls are.
Serve me basically is is just to show of stupid fucking asshole
patriarchal bullshit. Yeah, let's unpack that.
Great description. So, it's something that happens.
The choosing of paper rolls is something that happens,
annually. So every year, there's like,
eight new girls and it's a, it's a form of control and it's a way
to keep the lowest class. In line because truly it, any of
these systems like the lowest Class cast, is always framed as
like, well, they're unworthy. The reason the reason they're
called paper is because their skin is so thin compared to like
ones that are more demon e that they're weak.
Like, they can tear apart like paper and but the thing about
that is that usually that caste has the most numbers.
And so like numbers can overwhelm You know, even if you
were a strong demon like there's enough people they can rebel
against you and so do the way to keep that cast in line is by
showing them that there were like valued by like and then
like to the upper caste, being like they're worthless.
And so the way they did it, in this world is by creating this
paper girl system and in the patriarchy there's also another
caste system that never gets talked about, but is clearly
there and it's very evident in this book.
It said not only do you have cash?
Between how much or how little demon blood did you have?
But the other cast is gendered male versus female.
So even within the cast, The so like in demons, for example,
like the highest caste like there that the top a female
demon is still below a male demon.
So like there's a cast with in a cast and so, what they're doing
here is they're taking the lowest possible cast that there
is Paper Plus female, and he's displaying his power.
It being like, okay, I'm going to take them do what I want,
because I can, but I'm gonna frame it as like look there
there papers in my Palace of the only ones really, so he's like
look like you guys are valuable they he parades them around.
Like look, they're part of my court like this and that but
meanwhile you get all this language from like the demons,
who hate them for being there because they viewed papers as
lower women are lower than low. And you get all this nasty
language directed towards them. People who's like, with Leigh,
it's like this wasn't my choice. I was kidnapped and forced into
this. By all of you and now you looked
at. So it's like a wafer like the
demons to kind of, like stay in their place and be like, yeah, I
can look down on them. Cool.
And then for the papers, it's framed as like this is a big
honor. Look, I'm we're welcoming you in
our court even though none of you are allowed to have
positions of power. So it's really fucked up.
So some of the people that like buy into this bullshit, like one
of the characters is blue and like, her father is like a
rising paper who's a kind of in the court.
He liked sells his daughter into this to be like.
Yep. Look and it's a way for him as a
male paper to be like, yep, I'm buying along with the bullshit.
I'm on the King. This is my pledge of loyalty.
I'm giving you one of my own to do this ridiculous thing that
you have in place. And then for others, the more
impoverished people like Les, who's often a rural town that
nobody talks about. She was just straight-up
kidnapped and either way, like whether it's voluntary or not,
you're still in this completely powerless position where Or just
paraded around as a symbolic gesture to the low caste but
then also there for like the other caste if you like ill so
that they feel superiority and that's all designed.
So that like the structure of this world, the caste system,
the monarchy or whatever, that all it gets reinforced through
this. So like everybody's happy
because they're all getting something out of this, a feeling
of superiority, which You know, it's like Stockholm syndrome
when you're looking at what? I'm getting something out of
this. This is okay, let's not rock the
boat with this whole system, that's fucking over, literally
everybody, which is what I need, your keys are and that's why the
character of Aoki really. Oh my God, the most
heartbreaking character. So heartbreaking, okey is so
hard. We'll get to her, but God, it's
just straight up brainwashing, her, it really is.
Sad. And like, also, the thing that
pisses me off about to this, to like their ages.
These are children for the most part.
Like, so, Becky Aoki is 16, these are children, like it's
fucked up. Absolutely, I hate this stuff
triggers me, and makes you really upset because this
happens, it happens in real life.
That's this kind of gendered violence and like Emotional
manipulation against women. Have, it's happening now and
it's fun. Pisses me off it.
The I think that, I don't think that's part of why, I Because
for me, it's way easy to examine stuff like this, through the
lens of like, say a fantasy book, then through fiction than
it is for me to examine it in real life cases, which take from
that what you will. But that's why I found this book
somewhat important. But So yeah.
Lazy and taken to the Palace to be the Kings cock.
One of the Kings concubines and everything that theory just
explained, which is not at all, you know, a fun time for her.
And in fact there's one point on the way the palace that she
manages to escape for a hot minute literally and run away
but she is captured by the demon, one of the demon, the
general that comes to get her General Yon.
Is using her as a gift to get back in the king's favor and his
subordinate officer was supposed to watch her.
And so, he's extra pissed off when he catches her.
But he can't do anything to her, because this is the generals
gift to the king. So, no, but he tries to sa tries
to sa her, but that does not work out for him because the
general catches him guess what? That's just so just to add
another cherry on top of the fucked-up-ness, I mean, but yeah
but like it goes to show that like she is not seen as a
person. She helped thing she is a thing.
Yep. And I don't know in the generals
that stops. It is not doing it to stop the
essay. He's like this is the Kings
possession. He can do this.
You're not allowed to, huh? I don't know, I don't know if it
why I guess I know why. I I wonder if the if the author
meant for it to be extra creepy, since he's like a snake demon or
lizard, demon lizard demon, those reptiles, one of those
reptiles. Anyways, it made it even
creepier because the tongue thing he hasn't, lost Livery
tongue. Yeah, I know, I almost operating
it when I got ya, sometimes I had a hard time being like, this
is how bestiality I don't know. I don't think that was the
author's intent, but sometimes I was just like, it's a natural
reaction, I think to to it. So they get to creep that you're
not joking. So they get to the palace and
turns out, you know, they'd already selected all eight of
the paper girls for that year, but the general can look so
confused. I got this part of like, all
right. I'm like what y 8?
To the never explained like that.
That's what never was playing. Wait, I don't know.
So it's a little plot Gap. Um yeah that never this explain
because they do side note, they do talk about certain numbers
that like superstitiously like and yeah, for was like, things
like that. But anyway, I just realized that
I did enjoy the slight backdrop of the Superstition and
religious aspects. No, absolutely.
My favorite part of this whole book in the This book was the
cultural stuff I absolutely did. I wish they did more of the
wish. There was more of the ruling
their religion element into it. There it was there.
But I wish there was more of it because I just found that really
fascinating. I think I would I think it would
have made the other parts a little more rounded if that
makes sense. Yeah, yeah, flushed out, if we
had more, if we had more of that, so Anyway, the general
convinces. The so the in the paper Girl
house, there are two women who are kind of over the paper
girls. So there's a paper cast woman.
Miss mistress area is the way I hold on area.
I can't remember her name. I know there's mistress.
No, it's mr. Cyr, it's eria, but I'm just
trying to put, I know I, okay, I didn't read the book with my
eyes. I did audiobook, right, so I'm
trying to remember how they said the say that name.
O yaara o yaara. O yaara, o yaara.
Sorry, thank you. This is going to work out
because some of the major advantage of audio book by the
way and then mr. Kimura so mistress Sharia is
paper. Cast, mistress in Mora is Moon
cast. So she's a bird demon which also
kind of scraping are ya. Also kind of creepy so it's all
creepy fair enough. So they convinced this General
convinces them to take lay as a ninth paper girl.
And again, it really has to do with the eyes because the king
is superstitious AF. So she has the eyes of the
Goddess. Yeah.
Maybe we should make an exception.
Uh-huh. So that's how she gets in.
But it kind of works out because all these paper girls have to go
through this absolutely demeaning and humiliating and
awful screening process which again is designed to keep be
like, hey just because you're in the palace, doesn't mean you
have any power. This is all power trip and
bullshit. Just remember your place.
You're the lowest of the low that's all this shit is.
Yep basically examining them for you know our have they ever
slept with anyone before it blah blah blah.
Do they have an enchantment on them to look prettier or appear
a different way? Whatever.
Because there is Magic sort of there's magic but it's not
called Magic. Will put it that way?
Yes. It's it's a whole thing.
That's like a Cheesy kind of magic.
Yeah. Like, take from it and give but
you have to give something back, it's okay.
Having. Read the the trilogy basically
with the magic as it's like the energy from the earth / universe
and there's like the yin yang because this is Asian kind of
thing. There's a yin yang to it with
the chi and it has to do with like you take and then give
back. But the world is essentially,
you will come to see like how the king, because the king
essentially harnesses. All the shamans, the people were
able to harness the magic and he is the reason There's an
imbalance right now because the king is using too much.
And so like the Earth is being depleted of its like the tri
left to like facilitate magic. And so yeah, that's what's
happening. Once again, after monarchy yeah.
No, this is patriarchal bullshit.
It's that belief that like we're above everything else, so we can
take everything that we want, but it's like high.
That's not how it works. You're just gonna destroy
everything which is kind of what this is about.
All right, that's a funny time on was how about one more thing
because you know for it mistress Tiara and Madam camera.
So another again this is all like power bullshit.
Another like eating bullshit thing is that not only do the
paper girls, have to do this, But one of the people in charge
of them is a paper. So it's almost like again, like
either like that person has to be so brainwashed that they're
like, yeah, this is a good thing that we're being forced to do
this. Quote-unquote honor to serve the
king, or whatever, in this degree by being humiliated and
degraded all the fucking time at like, the whim of these demons.
But like, to have that being reinforced by somebody of your
own cast is Super fucked up and that's what happens in real
life. Like you have people in like,
you know, lower castes or her seen as minority groups.
But they're like, you know, you see this in America with like
people in minority groups, like reinforcing whiteness because
they get a little bit of status out of doing that.
And that's really what Madam Yara really represents.
So it's it hurts worse than having like the demon like
Madame her more alike. Demonize you as the bird demon
because that's built into the cast, the cast system, but to
have somebody of your own cast, do that, it's way worse.
And so poorly, like goes goes through it with mr.
Serr because she's like, oh, maybe she'll understand but
like, you know, she's bought into this system.
She get status from this. Like, you know, it's like a
survival thing to like you kind of can't even get mad at her for
it, but like it's survival, like otherwise her Life is Crap.
She gets a little Wonderful Life by playing along with this and
reinforcing this that's hurting her own caste, and this happens
in real life, it's it sucks. She doesn't have a lot of
choice. Like neither is correct.
There's none of the wax. There is no choice in any of
this and then it just framed as this is a big honor for you.
This thing, you were forced into, but remember, your trash
like, and that's what makes it even more heartbreaking.
What with her and lay because She's the only person that
really nice to the girls. Yep.
Because she's been there. So, yeah, just some degree of
compassion, she has that degree of compassion, but she also
knows that they're not going to have in her mind.
She's like, they're not going to have a choice.
All I need to do what I can best do to prepare them for the life
that they're going to have under the Patron on under this system.
And that's why You find out that even in her kindness?
It's cruel. Because, you know, Les wants to
write home to her family. Yeah.
And mistress Erie. I keep saying it wrong.
Pyaara pyaara. Thank you, mr.
Ciara is like oh yeah, sure. Here's some paper and pen and
whatever. I'll send the letters for you
and you know, she just keeps them.
She doesn't send them. Yeah I was like that bitch is
not going to send them. Yeah.
I was like, girl, even if she wanted to.
That she doesn't have that power because she is still a paper in
this paper ending woman in this whole system.
So like so she can't if you wanted to be I think she she
felt like it was a kindness to give lay the opportunity and the
hope to be able to talk. And lay was always really
careful not to say anything about bad about what was
happening with her because she was afraid for her family,
great. And that's something that's
constantly constantly reinforced.
In this kind of story and in this, like, survival structure
that it's always like, it's the emotional attachments and the,
like, the familial bonds, even if blood or not, that's
constantly, the thing that's being held over over everybody.
It's like survival for the individual than survival for
like the family unit. That's constantly the motivating
factor of like, yep, you know, especially with way it's very
much. Her family is the thing that's
always held over her head and I mention, she's smart enough.
If like he said in that example to like, understand that like
she is she is trapped in this system and can't like has to
still play along in some aspects.
So like even when she writes the letters, they're like, Bland
like you said, because she she's trapped in the system like she
has to play along to keep everybody alive.
You know are unharmed. I guess it sucks.
It just Rob's everybody of choice.
Their identity. And just and the sad part is
like even the people at the top. Operand, nobody is happy in
these systems. Like everybody's getting screwed
in one way, shape or form. It's just working out. so that
After layer arrives, the next day she gets to meet the other
girls. And that's when we meet Aoki who
will become lays best friend. She's very sweet.
Like the aura said, she's 16 and very naive.
Innocent naive and innocent. This will not work in her favor.
Not at all. Like she is probably throughout
the entire book. The series, the most traumatized
person? Yes, he's like, yeah, slit.
And like she goes into the dream house like to the fullest
extent, like literally actually falls in love with the King, her
leg. Like capture rapist.
Yeah, it's it's it's really, really sad.
There's a really heartbreaking moment.
I think towards the end of the book, with Leigh when she
realizes, what has already happened.
She's wow. My best friend fell in love with
a monster and I didn't even like recognize this happened.
So gradually. And I didn't even I couldn't, I
didn't. Yeah, it's yeah.
And then they have like a tumultuous relationship from
then on out because then they end up on opposite sides of like
the king stuff. It's really sad the way it just
she's just innocent wide-eyed kid who's like I just want to
play my part, keep my family safe.
Like this is an honor, she kind of buys into it because I think
her family like they like she knew she was going into this and
they like tried to get her to have this honor.
So like she must have grew up in a household that like believed
and this like way to serve the king way to serve the Empire
kind of thing. So it's very sad.
She was brainwashed, I think from home and then it got worse
when she's actually was playing her role and she just like Fell
into it 100 huh. The believer?
It's so sad. Absolutely sad.
I feel so bad for how okey You've already mentioned blue,
but Blue Blues family is somewhat higher up in the paper
world as far as so Blues family is pretty far up and then
there's Mariko who's I don't remember much about her family,
but oh yeah me neither, I barely room with Jenna.
Jean. That's why we're Twins.
And then who am I missing? I mean besides what is Lee was
like is that everybody before? I say we have to talk about
book, we have to talk well I think because I think yes let's
talk about Lil I think that Lil is kind of like the steel
version of Oggy So we'll is a steel.
She's like a do like a deer, which again is like Bambi in a
sense. So it's like right there in the
at home and she becomes. So in the paper so they end up
OK. In the palace basically the
palace is segregated so it's like again it's not just like a
we're at the top. It's like there's even like
segregation within the fucking cows.
There's a woman's Court. Yeah.
Women have ones which again is how like kind of an imperial,
Asian Empires were structured. In the world houses, the women
had like one little section in the men can do, whatever.
And then there's a whorehouse because, of course, the, the
patriarchy is disgusting. So, anyway, there's women's
court. And then the papers get further
segregated until like paper women area.
So, it's like paper house is what it's called and that's
where they all live. And it's so it's not just like
the concubines visit get because again remember they're not just
like You know, whatever women they're a symbol of just like
power. So they have to be like
purified, which is disgusting. Every time they do anything and
the beginning of the day, they have to get purified and they
get like, bam rituals. And like they have to get, you
know, hair and makeup, and all that stuff, because they're just
figure heads. And they have to look pretty and
like what all that bullshit because it's male-dominated,
gendered Powers what's happening.
So in order to do that they have essentially like chambermaids
kind of, I forget what they're called but like chambermaids
essentially like one. One chamber Maids assigned to
each paper girl and Lil becomes lays.
And so she's the one responsible to like, get her up in the
morning, get her to her, you know, lessons on time, get her
to like parties or whatever. So lay and Lil become like
attached at the hip because that's like, kind of the
structure in the paper house system.
Yeah. And little is like very sweet.
And like, she's just like I will keep it show.
She's like, you're serving the king and like, she's like,
please, she's like brainwashed into this whole thing.
Yeah. But She isn't in the same
position as I will see. Where she's forced to actually.
Uh, huh. She's more.
So, just in the paper house and like, her story is very sad too
because she has family that's like in the corridor like around
or something and she's like, yeah, I can like see them
whenever and so that's the advantage of being here and lays
like, well, when's the last time you saw them?
She's like, well, you know, it's been a few months.
So like it's she slowly like the curtains come back from Lil over
time where she realizes that I'm trapped in.
This system, too. And like being a snail, doesn't
really protect me. So she becomes, she goes along
the journey with les and his kind of like, her innocence is
shattered. And she sees like what reality
is with lay, as Legos a long. Whereas, I woke e and step
further behind the curtain and hidden kind of thing.
So it's for their interesting foils.
Those two. Exactly.
And I love will, she was one of the really bright spots and
she's adorable. I just wanted a hug her.
Yeah, but so Rin. Rin hanno.
Let's talk about Ren. Ren are raven-haired Beauty.
Oh my God, the I don't like, I haven't even seen a depiction of
her except for, on the book cover, but like in the book,
she's described. What, like, so well that in my
mind I see her and she's listen hydrate hydrate hydrate for
Listen, all the geez. I so Ren for David.
Okay, I'm gonna get there. Randy's here is the daughter of
the daughter of that hanno Clan, which is the highest paper cast,
Clan period. Yeah.
So these in the Empire, she they are the highest ones and they
are serve as like the Kings. Advisors, and helpers, etc, etc.
So, kitei. Yeah.
How can tie Hano is her father and he was the one that put her
forward, but he had a very specific reason for doing so
because he, he and his family has had a plan for a very long
time, to overthrow the king, And ren is the way that he's going
to do that. He places her in this position
so that she can kill the king and what no one knows about Ren
is that she is the last of a very old and very, like, amazing
battle sort of like a battle mage tribe.
That existed and was wiped out by the Kings, like predecessor
predecessor. So they were called the Sia and
basically what they were because in this world right now, the
Demon King has all basically all of the shaman, the shaman, or a
group of people who are able to harness magic, he has all of
them. The reason we got there is
because what Breeze describing is many generations ago.
There was a clan of papers called the Shia who could
harness magic in a warrior Forum like in a fighting form and they
were so crazy powerful that the they were the biggest threat to
the demon. So the demons had to wipe them
all out because and then basically make it so that magic
is only ours now. Uh-huh.
And so Ren is like the at this point the last Driver of that
Clan and kitai. Hono.
He there's more about him in the other books after this, but he
essentially is a giant opportunist and I was like, huh?
Interesting. So he devises this thing where
he like presents Ren as his daughter because she was young
enough at the time when he found her.
He's like, no. She's my actual daughter.
And she becomes this double
agent, basically. And this is why I have my
killing Eve mug today because that's the whole premise.
Amos of what made killing Eve, interesting where it's a female
assassin, which is essentially what run is, what makes that so
effective and what made female spies in real life.
So effective, is that in these patriarchy's, women are never
are not thought of as people. So they're not thought of as
possibly being threatening. So Ren can get into the palace
were paper Warriors could never get and she can get alone in a
room with the King which nobody else can do.
Because she's seen as dirt powerless, a thing.
Meanwhile, it's like you have the one of the most powerful
people on this planet with the king.
So like it's a brilliant strategy.
However, right has to get traumatized and essayed to do
that, which is exactly walked up part and poor Ren is another one
who has like Stockholm syndrome that we unpack over the entire
Trilogy, because of the other dad, you know, Kat.
I just uses her. Yeah.
She's a means to because again, he doesn't see her as a person.
She's a means. To an end for him to have.
So it's like that's the how, the patriarchy just functions.
Whether it's good, guys, bad guys, it's all the same
mentality and its really harmful to everybody.
Yeah, whether he's a paper or a steel or a moon, he's still a
man who used this little girl as a pawn in his game too.
And he's justifying it by saying, well I'm doing good in
the world. Yeah.
But you said like in the other
books like, you see, what he's really willing to do for like
means to an end and it and the rider really begs.
The question of like well if you think you're doing the good
thing and the king is doing a bad thing, but you guys are
using the same methods. It morality wise.
Is there really a difference here?
And that's why. Okay, so I only got through like
half of the second book before, something happened and I had to
stop reading. And the aura has got through all
the books. So she knows a little more about
the plot going forward, but even in, as far as I got in book 2,
you can tell that he's not gonna That this is going to be some
messed up and you're going to have to deprogram Rin from her
father's influence. Yeah.
Because I mean, that's real life and it makes you examine because
like, always in history, I feel like you're kylie-san America.
We are skewed because we live in America, where your history of
where you live is always framed as like we were the good guys,
huh? But if you look at like how you
were the good guys in whatever, it's like we were doing awful
shit. So were we the good guys?
We're like, What is the good guy in war?
And so it's not, is there a good guy or is this just all fucked
up? And there's just a winner and a
loser, and The Winner Takes power and like Steps, the boot
on the loser, which is basically how this whole world was
function. So yeah, the the other, the
other two books, go more into like the actual like political
conflicts, deprogramming Ren, lays are continuous.
So it's very interesting. Where is like this book is just
like The palace basically is the main location and the stuff in
the palace you're making me really want to read them and I
need to finish our other book club book.
I'm so sorry. Anyway.
Anyway runs hot just FYI. I just okay yeah I have to point
out too when she first seat when late because the POV of the book
is just you're just lays play. I think We lay in this book in
the other books, you jump around other characters which I find
interesting but this one's all lay.
So when Les first sees Ren she describes her as like I think
cat eyes like there's some kinda cat comparison.
Yes. I was like hmm.
This is going to be interesting character, not just because of
gay stuff but because in the world they described cat demons
and like cat steals like Oh crap.
What's her aunt's name? 10 yat.
And the steel is a cat. And like, the cats are
basically, they're the one demon Clan, whose rebellious like
because it's a cat's freaking tell.
You do cats are do what you want them to do.
Well, not not unless they wanted to do it in the first place.
Exactly, exactly. So basically Independence is
what that means, and so the fact that like, when they first meet
or they first, she first sees wrench, she's like, oh, there's
something cat like about her. You get this like Ryan is
obviously different and that she's going to be not really
playing along with this by that comparisons.
I found that really interesting like in their first was I love
doing of each other rather. Yeah also it's used for that and
the descriptions also used because she is very graceful and
assassin like in her movements because guess what, she's gonna
sass. Mm but Yeah.
So they meet and make sure you know, I really liked how it
developed because it's Ren tries to keep herself apart from the
other girls because she knows that she's not there to make
friends. She has a different Mission than
everyone else. But The gay doesn't just let you
go. So no, it's a really great slow
burry it is thing that happens with them.
I love it. I love it too.
And you also get that such a Renaissance your protective
sense when it comes to Tool a general.
But so the first the first person there there's their
little overlay becomes close to is a key because Naturally that
relationship is going to develop since Aoki is the nicest of all
the girls and she's somewhat understanding and sweet Etc.
Otherwise the others, especially blue, they call her nine.
They don't even call her by her name like blue in her little
hinge lady friend. I see her little Posse calls
Calls her nine, call her nine. And it's one just one more way
for them to shed on somebody who's even below them and their
mind. So absolutely.
Absolutely. And the other thing too.
It's that and then it's also jealousy because blue was one of
the people who like her father volunteered her for this as a
form of Honor so that they can their family.
Can keep power in the court so like Renfield.
I'm not ran. I apologize.
Blue feels like she has a mission of her own like to her
family kind of deal, so that gives her superiority like you
said, but also it's, it's jealousy, because they shouldn't
be there. But like uh-huh.
The king had to approve this and was like, yeah, her making.
She's an exception. I'm cool with this exception.
So bruise. Like, why do you get it?
I think it's definitely a jealousy thing and it just blew.
Never let that go like she's very, like, fuck you later whole
time. Absolutely is and you'll find
out later that blue does betray. Leigh and Wren.
So blue has a very interesting Arc throughout all three books
but yeah this book is very much like she's bright.
She's gas-lit like in brainwash like everybody else and it's
very jealous. And I think it's because she's
afraid that like the reality of what being a paper girl really
is and how much power she doesn't have and how much her
father really doesn't care about her is the thing that that
character has to like process and she does not process it well
because that is Is as a fucking lot to process really.
And she goes into like, straight-up denial.
And that's basically book, one with blue.
Huh? I'm looking forward to seeing
what more happens with her, but I don't know you won't.
It gets Let me know when you get 2 book 3, okay, I will know.
Is that so We're at the point where the girls are going to
start their lessons. and, It's interesting because they have
all these different kinds of lessons.
They have like they're their Chi lesson, they have All the
basically, they're being taught and all the ways to please the
king and to be a lady and poor lessons.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
That's what it is. So lessons.
Gross is very gross. But, you know, also and here's
the, here's one thing that really gets me, all right?
I don't know why this little detail really bothered me but it
did. Okay, so when the king sends for
whatever paper girl the he wants that night I know really this
whole paragraph about this. Let's go.
Okay so the way he does it is he sends their name on a chip.
That miss the mistress is that camera ER Amara himura reveals
to all the girls. So the like she puts the chip
out and it's got one of their names on it.
And it's just like, what are they afraid?
It's like, it's just there, it's just constant aggregation.
And the thing that I hate, that happens after that.
So, after that humiliation because it like he sees it and
then everybody except the chosen leaves, and then Madame, camera
and the chambermaid, they're like, okay, now we have to
purify you It's gross. They do this which is again it's
like it's just more degradation because it's just saying like
you're beneath the king. So the can you have to be
purified? So you can or you can be in his
presence. It's makes me so angry and
they're sent to have lessons that clausen's percent, stood at
their sent to the whorehouse to have sex lessons and we see
through lay We need another characters l.
Who mans herself just as Frizzell.
I loved this character. It was a great addition because
we got to see what happens to Paper Girls after they stopped
being a one-year. Yeah, exactly.
So Zell is in the what is the other night?
I think is a night house the night house and she is there for
the pleasure of any of the demon folk in court that want to come
and take. Advantage of that even men.
Yes Men specifically, human men's in the courts so Zell.
Is a sympathetic character because for a lot of reasons,
but some of that it to lay because she gets where lays
coming from and remember the the little the the backstory of Les
being her mother was kidnapped. So the only thing that's really
kept her, okay? In this entire time was the hope
that she could find out what happened to her mother in The
Palace. So she uses this opportunity of
being in the night house to find out if Her mother's names are
name is on the roles of the night house.
If her mother was brought there to the night house, to serve the
king and Court in that way. And while she's trying to figure
like she, she gets away from Zell under a pretense and it
tries to find the Scrolls in the office of like the Mistress of
the night house. Mistress.
Had her name a second ago. She's important.
And the other books. I'll think of her name.
Okay, you anyways, L catches her and covers for her, so you know,
she gets it because she's been there and in the end we're going
to see that she really is an absolute hero.
So she absolutely is Zell hydrate Frizzell and rivers all
So put a pin in that. Yes, we meet Zell.
It's it takes a while for Lay to be called by the king.
Thank God. Thank goodness.
However, when she is called by the king, guess what, the or
almost stopped reading. So she gets called by the king
and the first time I'll make the I'll make a long story short.
She Russia manages To get the fuck out of there before he can
do much to her. Yes, which is a huge Nono
insults to him. And that is not going to bode
well for her know her punishment is being contained in this space
solitary with no food for a week.
Which oh it's not just that so. Okay, when she's escaped.
So this is some bullshit to and the pissed me off and it
reinforces this whole people upholding the patriarchy and
internalized misogyny. So he has a prized guard /
General named Nadia I think who is a fox white fox demon.
That is like his most trusted the Kings most, trusted anybody
in the whole world and that's Person who guards the door to
the fuck chamber. Basically and when Leo gets the
bug out of there like she's just runs she gets to the door.
Actually. No, before we get to the part
when she's being led in there, this bitch has the audacity to
like call her paper whore and she keeps calling her that
because remember, Nadia is a woman.
So even in the demon demon World, she's a lower caste in
the demons. And so to exert her power, she's
Degrading the paper girls who again and she's like, wow,
you're a horror this and that it's like, well, you guys are
the ones that forced her into this.
Like, I hate this stuff so much because it's like, it's your
fault, you set up the system and then you're mad at the people at
the bottom of the system that you created.
So there's that and when Les is escaping, that's the person who
stops her. She like Wax her in the back of
the head with her sword. I think.
And so as a form of punishment, this is something that the king
keeps doing Even after these encounters the essaying, but he
does all his paper girls. He basically that night when
they go back to the paper house there.
He leaves them in pain and basically, like has his shamans
come in and clean up the wounds, so you can't see anything on the
outside, but on the inside, he's like, don't take the pain away,
let them keep the pain, which is, again, a way of just
exerting his power being. Like, I can do this, to you
submit to me, like, I'm the one in charge kind of bullshit, but
it's just This person is, this is like the top of the
patriarchy is who power trips is just, so psychologically, fucked
up, but that's what he keeps doing.
So that's what he does. The way he not only like,
deprives her food and water but he leaves her with the pain.
So basically everybody in the system gets like internally
traumatized. That's what that's kind of
sibling. Exterior looks as met.
You have to look fine on the outside, but on the inside, he's
just, he's just trying to break everybody to like Bend to his
will kind of thing. And like what sets lay apart, is
that, she's not somebody who's internally.
Lee broken. and, He to be clear he's not just a saying these
women. He's beating the shit out of
these women, correct? Yeah he's just basically to let
you know how much pain that they're in when they come back.
Yeah like later with Ren. She has like bruises on her neck
and stuff like that because basically this it's a man-child.
A superstitious man child, that does not know any other way of
keeping control of the things that he wants.
What so physical violence is all, he has an emotional
Tantrums that ended physical violence.
It's disgusting. That's the patriarchy.
That's why so dangerous. But while she is, In this
position, the only people, I mean, the only way that she gets
anything is Rin. Yeah, so excited gives her
friend sneaks in and gives her food and I think that's really
where they start. That is so, Yay gayness.
Or at least there's that rememberings are sweet like
desserts and that becomes like a thing they do.
Yeah forever. Uh-huh.
And then so she goes back into the the paper Girl house
eventually and resumes her lessons and is just basically
waiting for when the Kings going to call her again.
And this time it's going to be you know awful.
Yeah. And again he's like his father
of psychological torture. Her is like, putting off calling
her because then every week she's just Aunt it like freaking
out. Is it me?
Is it me?
It's just more psychological torture.
Exactly. But they go through all of these
parties and things like there's one where there's an incident
where a woman so I don't woman. Is that tries to?
Yes it is a paper. Also paper woman tries to Base
basically, she is taken down by the moon casts when she's trying
to assess, she trying to assassinate, I think remember.
But basically, he kills papers in front of the paper girls is
basically what happened? Yeah, like defenseless papers
and it's just reinforcing the fact that like these paper girls
at that time, they're getting comfortable being in the palace
because they're ripped from their homes around the palace
and that's like the demon way of life.
And so it's reinforcing like, hey, You're still a paper, he's
doing all this horrible shit, even though you're like behind
his closed wall, seeing what he wants, you to see in this like
perfect Palace situation. Yeah, he's got the he's got the,
we've got the one incident with the woman who was killed and
then we have the incident with the Villagers that were
collected at another party and just fucking given out as slaves
to other Moon cast demons just like take your whore.
Yeah up. So fucked up woman that you're
talking about bless you. Thank you the woman that you're
talking about. I think that's the one that
calls. Lay I forgot the word.
Yes, yes, it is traitor. Uh-huh.
I forgot the word, but yeah, and that's something that sticks
with life forever because that's, it's true because I
mean, it's just like, mistress Tiara all that stuff.
It's like you're now a part of like you're a part of the
system. That's like oppressing us.
Uh-huh. And she calls lay that, which
and I guess it's like, oh, you're sleeping with the Enemy.
You're a traitor. Which again like, yeah.
Like technically, but also, like she had no choice in this.
You put, they put her here like it's again.
You're blaming the individual for like the The system, that's
the problem. Like, the problem is the king
and the demons creating the system, not the people that are
forced into these roles, but it's something that like it
really sticks with les and she, you know, kind of sees it
through that lens as she lives in the palace where she's like,
wow I'm here, maybe I'm part of the problem because I'm living
this role, I'm a cog in the wheel kind of thing so it's just
it's just so fucked up like all of it.
It's just the whole thing is psychological torture.
This one, huh thing? It's Early is yeah, but that
encounter really sticks with play like forever, it does,
because she mentioned, it's mentioned several times so many
times. So we have those incidents with
paper people. We see, we have one former paper
girl that has married into the court after, she was a paper
girl, and we see a very, very sad scene with her basically.
She has been kept Offal on the outside with shamans magic and
her face basically melts away to reveal.
What's underneath like in? It's the ugliness of everything
that she has been made into and put through.
So it's a really kind of striking way to show lay a
future. She could have had and the
future that most paper girls do have.
Yeah. Where you're just in the inside
completely broken by this system but presented as being fine and
beautiful. Which is what the demons want to
see. They're like see our systems
working but like, yeah, I agree. Some great description of her
huge The huge issue in her mind is that the king won't give them
any more magic to make her beautiful again.
And so another way for him to exert his power because her
husband displeased the king, she doesn't get any more magic to
look beautiful. Right?
Because he's a man-child anyway. Just another and everyone that's
just the theme of this that's just reality.
It hurts everybody because everybody Even the king is not
happy in the system, but he's the top of the top like it hurts
everyone. That was, I wanted to bring that
up because it's just another thing that the author uses to
show you the Curt behind the curtain and the curtains
totally. So let's talk a little more
about the gay because I need a little bit of happy.
There are adorable together. They are adorable together.
again, they're like prisoners-of-war kind of in a
sense that like their relationship is built on a
shared trauma which is Living in the court as the lowest of the
low caste, that's has no choice in what they're doing, but they
still find a way to be rebellious.
And it's one of those things where it's like the act of us
just being us when we're together and like loving each
other is a form of rebellion in and of itself.
Hmm. So it's a really cool depiction
of that. And then through lay, you
actually get to see Ren because Ren is eyes.
Elating herself, because she has a mission.
Like you said, seriously, get to see who run is through lay,
which is really nice. And so she's a very focused
person. She's secretive for a reason,
she's a de fucking assassin. The only problem I have with
their relationship and it's mostly likely annoys me
sometimes and she enjoyed being in this in this scene later
where they're like escaping these given the palace, I can't
remember what they're doing but The first time ran goes into CI
mode and like kill somebody. And then laser reaction to that
is so weird. Where she's like, wow, I'm
Legit. Now, I can't believe she did
that. I can't believe she did that.
I'm like, you just watch some people expect.
What the fuck was that? Reaction?
Your whole life has been like, you've been exposed to violence
and demons killing papers your whole life and then Ren does it.
And then you're suddenly like looking at her differently and
I'm yeah, what is this reaction? It was, why are you judging her
right now? She's literally Acting you saved
your life. What was that reaction?
It was so weird. I can't figure that one out.
The only thing that I could figure is that the I'm like, art
is the author trying to show even how backwards it all of
this Society stuff is, is making lay think in some ways.
I maybe like how she killed Demon.
Oh my God. Like yeah, I don't know.
But it like make sure like think of rennes in a negative way and
I found that really weird makes her scared of Ren.
Hey, I guess because she like actors, actually witnessing ran,
go into that mode. The yeah, where she's harnessing
the energy of the earth basically, when her eyes go
white, I guess it is. Inlays mind somehow Associates
her with demons and killing and the violence.
That's the only thing I can think of is that it's putting
Ren in that category of doing violence and brutalness and
whatever. But it still doesn't make sense
to me. Like, if I had been in that
position, I can't really say, because of never been a Kings
concubine experience. Fucker.
Let's get out. Make out with her like what?
Let's go laser I guess that's the only part I was just like
this reaction is weird and it doesn't just like like lingers
but I was in the moment. It lasts for a hot minute.
Yeah. It was weird.
Other than that, it may everything about the made sense.
That bar was just weird. Yeah.
I'd really like to ask her what she was doing with that.
I don't understand that. Anyway.
But yeah, Ren super cool. And then red, you get to see
like how deep the influence of Catania hanno really is because
Ren has Kenzo, which is one of the Guard, one of the guards.
I think just one of the cameras like generals, they're not gonna
General, he's a major, I don't remember.
He's in the military. I don't remember his, he's high
up in the military. He's close to the Cat, close to
the king and so, could I has him in there?
He's a wolf demon, the wolf demon and so he meets Ren, like
in the ass crack of hours of the night to like keep her training
while she's there. And like Leigh is like, why does
she keep disappearing? So she meets Kenzo who's a
really cool character to I really enjoy him.
He's like the only demon in this part.
In this book that I actually had an attachment to.
That's full-on demon. Spoiler alert.
Hurt. He's queer AF so that's cool as
you can going in the next couple of books.
There's way more queer stuff than just lay and Ren.
So this is excited if you like this mug, you know, markers
that. Yeah.
But like there's some comments about Kenzo at the added, I was
like, damn, he's just get it with everybody's he's queer
half. So there's kids out, he's really
cool. And he's integral to kind of
like getting Ryan where she needs to go getting around the
palace and stuff like that. And so but their relationship is
really nice because it's built on something solid.
It's built on the shared trauma to that like can it's a war
buddies worry like you only, you guys went through that
experience. So you're like connected in a
way that you're not connected to other people.
And they really helps open up Ren, in a way because for Ren,
Li Clay is kind of like a, she's very much, she was taught to be
in. Troll constantly because she had
to be to be effective assassin but with lay it's like I'm not
in control so it's like a new situation for her.
That develops, Zachary nicely. I love it's so it's so kind of
like human and typical in a way that one of lays greatest fears
is that Rena sneaking out to have an affair with somebody
else. Oh my God she thinks she's fine
my girl no there's a guy here and she's like before she's
catching them. Grunting.
I know what this is. Yeah, ma'am Friends game.
Fuck this game for you. So stop.
Yeah, that was fun. I always like when there's some
jealousy sprinkled in there so like I'm really shaking it kind
of has it all done. It was done and it was done in a
cute way. So I enjoyed it sometimes.
Jealousy can just be dumb but this was done well so I'm gonna
land They have cute little like night rendezvous after trauma
happens. And just yeah, let's not forget
that. Ren does teach lay some fighting
techniques that will come in handy later.
Correcto very necessary. Uh-huh.
And their circumstances, and then when Ren has to leave at
one point Kenzo steps in. Yeah, so may become buddies.
Yeah, they become Birds, but But mmm, so while all that's
happening, the gay is developing and has developed, not all is
well in the past. The Kings getting more and more
just crazy and superstitious. And has started to do all of.
He's just getting paranoid. That's the word.
He's becoming so paranoid and yes, there are people that are
trying to assassinate you. So paranoid for good reason.
There's an assassination attempt and that's when run gets her,
she on and scares the crap out of lay apparently.
But after that, Everything gets weird for a while in the palace.
So there's a lot of security going on.
A lot of things are not normal anymore, but the huge thing is
this one night that they're working up to and it's the night
that Rin is supposed to kill the king.
And it's this big ball that they're having basically because
spoiler it was supposed to be Ren but rennes out of the
picture now. So now it has to become lay who
is not a trained assassin, exactly, which is so Rim, is
gone away from the palace because her mother died.
So they can basically had her mother killed And now we get
Kenzo convincing lay that she has to be the one to kill the
king little lady. That has, no, she of powers
whatsoever, but she's a feisty feisty, very feisty.
She has about one drop of actual combat training, yes, to be
exact. And the reason he's pushing her
is basically because like there's dissenters in the court
and he's like, everything's Ready.
The only thing that's not here is Ryan.
So you have to be run. Yeah, so it doesn't happen now,
it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen.
They're all plan is was for rent.
Kill the king and for him to step in to the power Gap and to
get things short up in the right direction.
Get that weren't moving in the correct direction and did
centered around something called the moon ball that only happens
once a year. So it's like approaching and
he's like, well you're a woman, you could do it a paper girl.
You can get close to the king. Here's a knife.
There's best of luck. I'm taught you how to stab
stuff, right? Yeah, you're paying attention.
So, that's when Kenzo kind of takes over and trains her for
one night, basically, literally in her second run my combat
training. Yeah.
And then we have the ball. Guess what happens at the book?
Yes. Just guess what the king does
guess who's brought to the Palace.
Blaze family is family. Yeah, please family is brought
to the Palace because again, he's paranoid and he knows he's
losing control and she's the one that wouldn't break.
Although, by this time he actually sat her and it's
horrible. Yes.
The we can't even control over. What did he have to say that it
happens? But she's traumatized, because
he actually did get to sa her and she thought that she was
going to defeat, but beat him and make him pass out by giving
him these herbs. Because butter person, Yeah, I
did not work because they were ripped away from her.
He was paranoid, basically he was drunk, it doesn't matter was
Max doesn't matter. We're at all, he's brought her
family there to be like, haha, bitch.
I can't, I have your family and I can do whatever I want and
she's like crying. Anything is really what is great
about her is be as afraid of her.
He's been afraid of her ever since she defied him.
And he, that was You open this little girl.
This little 17 year old girl unbroken.
Girl, scared scares the shit out of that.
I am. Yep.
And that is one more way that he can try to control her and
torture her, but guess what? Bitch, thus not how it's going
to go down. No, you're about to lose your
eye. Uh-huh.
So he bases she basically her thing is is that she's going to
try to convince them that she's turned the tight, like turned
everything around in her mind. And she now wants to please him,
right? Because each you must be like
yet. You broke me.
Yeah, yeah, let me okay you win. Let's go do The dirty and the
Garden or whatever and she was getting loan is if she tries to
get them alone it works yes. But he knows what she's doing I
think and so he's like he's like there's no way.
Yeah there's no way and I'm just going to show her that this is
not hard who's in charge, and this is not going to work.
So they come to a head on that front and scuffle about.
And Hey she guess who shows up my poor babies.
Oh poor baby. Still shows up and does our girl
solid and dies for it. Yeah.
Like heshes is the unsung hero. She is dancing here.
So basically lay ends up stabbing the king and stupidly
in his eye and then in his jugular Caius, but I guess his
hide is so thick and Yeah, like this tiny that she doesn't quite
Nick. The fucking carotid.
Somehow. I don't understand this, but
Kurama sure, sure, Jam. Yeah.
Anyway so they she basically thinks that she's killed the
king. Yeah, everybody thinks that
she's killed the king. And that's guess who else shows
up its Wren rinse here to say? Today's well, ye are in tears
because Nadia showed up. Yeah man.
Yep. So Ken Zone and Nadia go fight
it out. Yep.
And renin and leg the fuck out. Literally That's pretty much
booked one really. Oh no, that is book one, but
then the author at the ants, like the Kings alive.
And it's like, fuck you, man. Yeah, it's actually, I was about
to say, but guess what? He's not dead.
Why didn't kill him? There are two more books, you
know, he's not dead. That bitch is alive.
The shamans are using all the magic in the world to mend him
again. Literally, they are using all of
the Magic in the world and that's kind of where we end.
So there's more like book, two and three are not centered
around essay, which is great. It's more about like the
inevitable political upheaval that's happening.
It's more so life outside of the palace as we continue with Clay,
but we also get to see point of view of different characters
including like Gia. Which is interesting. so, The
thing about this book is like the essay stuff that the
gendered violence that stuff triggers me because it's real
life and it makes me really upset.
So, I almost didn't finish the book but I'm glad I did.
And then the other books are not really about that.
So if you're into the plot, want more gay stuff because there's
there's way more gay stuff that happens in the other books, keep
reading the trilogy this with olives and I'd also like to say
that I really dig the magic system in the books.
Yes. And you get to see in book two,
what that means for Ren, because yes, she is basically giving her
life force. To use all of this magic to help
them, you know, be safe. Yeah, it go.
Yeah. It goes more into like how the
cost of magic basically and it's a lot more into Ren and her
backstory. So if your intervention keep
reading, I'm gonna run keep reading.
I will see a matriarchy Gradebook do if you want to see
just gay stuff in general, I did love that part.
Read more me to exactly answer the matriarch and Mike.
Thank God, there's a major arteries I wear and that's what
fucking world. It's crisis the frickin Birds,
the birds spoiler, but it's great.
So yeah, I recommend getting through the first book and
through workman's, reading the other two books, I recommend it.
Cars. I've read the second book was
really nice to see their relationship continued and the
trouble of like all the kind of trials and tribulations that
they went through, as far as I read, but great, queer
representation. I am o in fantasy because you
get to see it in. I love the relationship between
what is his name? Big Al man, Big Al man.
Oh They ride on his back. That was Dave.
This is my fault for not for being a bad podcast person.
I'm sorry everyone podcast bail podcast fail me.
What is his name? Do I have to get the book
because again I didn't read the names.
I just heard them. So I'm trying to like, rifle
through the Rolodex. I even made all of these
freaking it, we don't use it. We had those who use a damn
thing, just freestyle develops. And I just want you to know that
every single purple thing is a gay thing in this book and
there's so much purple. Oh God.
What is his name? Hold on.
I'm about to find this. Oh, by the way, the world called
or the the country is called a car.
It is Leopard boy, looks at me. Marin Marin thank you.
Will bow? Yeah bow okay so bow.
Marin bow is is a letter B's Two Lovers enemies.
Still love her story so cute. No seriously book 3.
So there the OK spoiler that happens a book to there's way
more gay stuff in book 3. Like it's just like the others.
Like everybody's gay book, 3, everyone, everyone you meet
friends ex like there's so much stuff.
Oh, Under its speaking of jealousy and see Nicholas Nasir.
See I'm into it. Okay, there's some, so yeah, so
here's my eating lots of creating so much.
Okay. So how would you, how much would
you hide your? I would say.
This is a lesbian Jesus, hydration Scale, based on red
and let okay how much I drink. I'm gonna go with this a hard
one, because That's not what she said on the lesbian.
Jesus, hydration, I'm gonna go with seven, that's a good one.
I'm gonna give. Okay.
I'm going to rate this book. I would give this book a 5
personally because the essay stuff deduct a lot of points for
me, just personally. But overall, it's a very good
book. The thing, I really love the
most about it, aside, from the gay stuff as I love.
Of the Asian culture stuff. I thought that was the biggest
strength of the book. I love how that was weaved into
everything, not just like one culture, but like she mentioned,
multiple things like somebody owning a saree shop and like the
food. And it was just naturally weaved
into everything and like the shaman that she all of that
stuff I thoroughly enjoyed that and we need more of that in
general in media. So to put a little note on that
the author Natasha nian is of Chinese Malay and Malaysian to
So you have a lot of Malaysian and Chinese influence in this.
It was great. So I would get 5, the trilogy,
as a whole, I would give a 74, like queer representation
because that just ramps up, it gets more into like the
political stuff, more to people's Back stories.
Like other characters that are much more fleshed out, you get
more into like the magic stuff and like, which I enjoy
personally in Fantasy World building.
So I thought that I I thought that as the story went on, the
trilogy had more strength for me personally than like the first
book, which is really like a setup and it was mostly palace
stuff. So, that's is not, this is not
something you want to read Standalone.
You want to go into this knowing that you have to read all three,
read all three books, honestly, it gets, it gets better in my
opinion. Yeah, yeah, totally.
I agree with you. Yeah.
So we got our hydrations and now I think it's time for you to
announce book Next book club. Okay, I have to pause Caitlin.
Pause this. I have to go get the book
because I'm going to read something out of it so just go.
Yes! Go, go, go.
Yeah, so next book club, we're going to do a book that I've
been dying to read. Since I found out, it was going
to become a TV show in 2024, and that book is Big Swiss very big,
Swiss, big squares bigs with. Okay, so this is Jen Bagans
book. I'm gonna it's about Sapphic
stuff which is wonderful and it's described as a brilliantly.
Original novel about a sex therapists, transcriptionist and
her wild affair, with one of the patients, the protagonist is
Greta who's like a 46 year old. Old lost human being, who
becomes a sex therapist transcriptionist for somebody.
She calls big Swiss. Why is Big Swiss and a
therapists office. I'm going to read you part of
the transcript and if this doesn't entice you I don't know
what will other than the fact that big Swiss and the show is
going to be played by Jodie Comer.
Just keep that in mind. So the sex therapists is asking
big Swiss about What's going on? And why is she here?
And big Swift says, I'm here because I don't have orgasms
Greta who's reading this and transcribing, says, oh, big
Swiss says, I've never had an orgasm in my life even by
myself. Greta says, out loud to, no one
come again, big Swiss. That's not.
Thanks mrs. Here's the funny part.
I'm 28, I'm married. I've been married for years.
I'm also a First grant us, is this a joke?
The therapist says, are you married to a man big?
So it says, yes. So, if that doesn't entice, you
to read this book, I don't know. What will?
It's incredible. Jen.
Vegan has a really she's really funny.
I thought I was like, well, actually laughing at this.
It gave me like Phoebe Waller Bridge Vibes in terms of like
Gallows humor, it's really interesting if you're in a
psychologically bad place, it may not.
Something to read right now, even though it deals with some
deep issues like trauma and things like that, but it's
presented in a comedic voice especially Greta, whose point of
view. The whole book is written by it
written in, but it's really fun. I cannot wait for this series
and at the end of our book club, we're going to play a, Who Would
You cast? So that's going to be super fun
Book Club episode. I'm so excited.
I also want to say that this book gave me gray Gardens.
Vibes. If anybody knows what Grey
Gardens is great. If you don't Google machine it
because It's just you'll figure it out.
It's so funny. But anyway, yeah, so join us
next time when we come back we're going to talk about.
Thanks Liz, it's Swiss, alright? So I hope you enjoyed this.
See you guys next time for big a book up and with that we've been
big gay energy. If you liked this episode check
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