Hello, and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Bree. I'm Fiora.
And I'm Caitlin. Come along with us while we dive
into the fun and nuances of queer media.
Representation matters, and we're here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the Big Gay agenda
today, Fiora? Today we're continuing our High
School Musical, God, High School Musical, the musical, the
serious discussion. Also known as HSMTMTS.
Also known as the longest fucking title ever for anything.
Good Lord, Okay. I saw someone that said they
should make the show into a stage production so then they
can make High School Musical, the Musical the series, The
Musical the series. No, no, it's enough words as it
is. I'm surprised it got so many
seasons because people could find it with that title, but OK,
so we're continuing our discussion today.
We'll be moving on to season 2. Disclaimer everybody, this is
just as strictly A spoiler episode, so if you haven't seen
it and want a spoiler free review of the entire show,
please go back to see our previous episode.
Just listen to The Beginning where we just give a non
spoilerly update about this. But from here on out it's just
spoilers. But before we jump into all the
gay and queer goodness, we just have a quick just a little
housekeeping stuff for you guys if you were listening to this or
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So check all that out. I think that's everything,
Caitlin. Yes, Every time you bring up my
word, then I'm like, oh crap, I don't have a word.
Problem We promise we're not lying.
No, we will. We will have a word.
All right? Are we ready for Season 2?
Yeah, let's do it. OK, so I just figured we'd just
start with the characters that were introduced with.
We're not going to go too much into detail with each one,
because sometimes there's too many.
We need to stop adding people and use what we have anyway.
So in Season 2 we are introduced to Lily the mean judgy girl,
Howie the kind trader, Zach the asshole teacher with history
with Miss Jen, and Antoine the annoying French student.
So. I mean, this is the season where
again, we're still trying to be Glee a little bit when we're
moving away from it. So instead of like our rival
Glee group, instead of having vocal adrenaline, we have North
High. So we have, like this is the
rivalry season. And so those are like mostly a
cast of characters coming from the rival school.
So it's like they're the caricatures of the Mean Girls
you'd expect, while the East High Wildcat group become human
beings. Like, that's really what this
season is like. I mean, you got to have rivalry
in high school, right? Of course.
Yeah, So what musical are they focused on this season, Caitlin,
Because last year it was High School Musical because we were
trying to be High School Musical.
Well, I mean, it's really a mystery because the first
episode, everyone is super convinced they're doing High
School Musical too. I mean, it makes sense because
it's a Disney production based off of High School Musical.
And then the last minute, Miss Jen decides, no, we're not doing
that. We're going to do Beauty and the
Beast. Because of course they are.
Because Disney again likes to flex that this is a Disney
production and so they have the rights to all the Disney shit.
So that's how they keep doing Disney musicals.
But they also don't have to pay to use anything else, so that
helps the production. But it also is like, hey, are
you nostalgic for Beauty and the Beast?
That's also a streaming on Disney.
Plus, this is just like meta marketing is what they're doing.
Well, that aside, let's just let's talk about the casting
first, because a lot goes down in this casting.
So Lily. Lily starts out at East High and
she joins the auditions, but first she fangirls over the
group at lunch. So she seems like the a nice
girl who just wants to be involved.
But that's where the nicest stuff stops and like she takes a
selfie with the whole group. I I feel like she just whatever
that that's just it goes quick. That's it.
So the group does a group audition, which is very odd.
Like I I don't know of anyone who like, sings song all
together to audition. Like.
Dance. Yes, but I think this is ATV
show choice where they're like, we need to move this shit along.
No, they had solo auditions too though with singing.
So like, it just whatever. It's dumb.
But they don't group audition. And Lily definitely shines
because she's talented, but her personality cost her the lead.
And OK, so something that really pisses me off in this show, and
I mentioned this little bit in the past, is that Ricky keeps
getting the lead and his auditions are terrible.
Like, yeah, I'm pretty sure he sings Bet on it in this one for
his solo audition. Cuz he thinks he's gonna be, he
thinks they're doing High School Musical, so he's doing a Troy
Bolton. No, he he he knows that they're
not doing high school music, but that's the only song he knows
cuz that's what he prepared cuz everyone was expecting it,
correct? Exactly.
He prepared it, but then he over prepared it to the point where
he could barely sing it by the time he got to the audition.
So yeah, his audition was trash. Also, there's this ongoing thing
of him constantly being late to the audition.
So he's like wildly unprofessional first of all, but
like, classic handsome guy gets the role.
So, OK, so really backtrack in the first season.
He's late. And Carlos says Troy wouldn't
have been late, which literally everyone knows that that was.
Troy's like big thing. Like yes, he was late, They were
always late to the audition. But so Tim Federally, who
created the show, admitted his mistake on social media later.
Also, side note, that's who wrote Never late, never Nathan,
Never Yeah. That will be in my Fun Facts
section as well. And I figured, well, there it
is. Now there's your fun fact.
Yes, Tim, Federally, if you happen to be listening to this,
I would like to interview you about all the things you've
done, because both things are, well, better.
Nathan Ever is like kind of queer.
But we talked about it, yes. We did in our band books
episodes. Yes, that sounds like I know
that name when I saw. It it just.
Reads the audiobook. Because I listened to the
audiobook, he reads. Oh, really?
That's. Cool.
Yeah, that's cool. OK, so Ricky keeps getting.
I mean really, Ricky does have competition with EJ, but this
time EJ does take himself out of the running for the lead.
So of course, how convenient the stereotypical guy who gets the
lead is getting the lead. Again, spoiler for the casting
that we go through later. So during the audition,
something that I really like is they had Ashlyn stand out more,
which finally and she gets some solo lines and Miss Jen is just
like nodding at her and like, it's just so sweet that like
she's so proud of her. And I I do love how Miss Jen,
like, just cares about her students so much.
Yes. So Ashlyn, when she's singing,
goes over to the whole group of girls that's standing around and
they're acting with her like, you know, it's theater.
But then if you look at the end, Lily is not participating at
all, which, I mean, it's an audition.
And if you see everyone else acting, I feel like you should
really be doing that. But she's so focused on herself
because she has her solo parts coming up soon, so she's just
focused on herself, which is telling of her personality.
Yeah, so that was like Lily. Is like overconfident.
She's going to get the role because it's Beauty and the
Beast and she looks like Belle, so she's like my thing and I
like I am. I look like the cartoon
character of Belle. She comes like dressed like
Belle, like in the same kind of style.
Of like. Clothing colors.
So she's visually like projecting to Miss Jen.
I look like I literally like if you went to Disney and you saw
the Disney Princess Belle, you would look like exactly like me,
Like if you would hire me. Look at this whole group of
girls when they're lined up. Yeah, you would.
You're subconsciously you would think.
That's Belle, right? And Lily knows that and is
playing into that hardcore so that when she doesn't get it,
she's like, what the fuck? I literally look like Belle.
And it's like we we did the typecasting in the first season.
So let's move on. Also, who are you and where were
you in season one? If you're this huge person who's
so into theater, like, where the fuck were you?
Is this the same school year like?
Yeah, it is. It is.
So like this. That's why.
Like the way that people come in and out is like weird in.
This don't. I should really know this, but I
don't know if she was there or if she's a New Girl or what.
I don't think they actually explain it so like.
Too many people transferring conveniently for the musical.
I'm like you live. You have to have an address in
the school district. That's not how this works.
I I lived actually like 40 minutes away from my high school
by the end. But I think they're just letting
me finish out the school, 'cause I could provide my own
transportation, but anyway, so. It's again a forced plot.
That's annoying. Moving on from that.
But part of me wonders if Lily feels insecure that everyone is
so close, so like they're all very close and like know how to
like act together and she chooses the meanness to cover it
up, maybe and make herself feel better.
She man, she's really unbearable in these auditions.
I. Mean.
Possibly. But again, she's she's the
character, the caricature remnant from season one where
it's like she's just very one-dimensional.
It's like, this is she's the new Gina, right?
She's like New Girl that got transplanted here is cutthroat.
To be #1 is overconfident 'cause she has the part went through
all. She's like she has a
conversation with Gina too. She's like, yeah, I don't, I
don't know all this training too, girl, we're on the same
level. I can kick your ass and like get
the get the lead cause Gina's also like, it's my turn to get
the lead. So like they're just playing
into that hyper competitive shit with the girls again.
And it's like Gina 2.0 is here, but a blonde girl.
That's. Basically what it is.
And Gina tries to give her a compliment.
And she's like, oh, I just meant I haven't done local theater.
Right, exactly. So this time, OK, here's our
here's the new caricature. Like that's what she is.
And then they just they don't change her.
They're just like she's just going to be the villain.
Now we're just going to go full Glee and just keep you as the
villain while the other the Wildcat group, they break out of
their one dimension and become two-dimensional and
three-dimensional. Lily never gets better.
Lily never gets any redeeming qualities.
No, it's like they set up the North High.
All the North High people are just villain.
Like they're just villains. Like they don't change.
They're just, they're one-dimensional and they stay
that way every. Single one of them.
Kind of different though, slightly.
I guess kind of, but he goes way so fast it doesn't fucking
matter. True.
Yeah, I guess he's the only one. I guess I was excluding him from
that. I was.
I mean, like the cut throat people.
He's not really a cut throat person.
He's. I mean, we don't even find out
that he's part of it until like. He's the he's the sleeper plot,
but he's set up as somebody else.
He's in a he's a romantic McGovern anyway, like, you know,
So he gets more of a personality, 'cause he's in a
love relationship with Courtney later, which humanizes him, I
guess. But like, for the most part, the
teacher Lily and the French guy and the rest of the people in
the musical except Howie in North High, they're just the
one-dimensional. They're the villains.
You're just supposed to hate them.
They don't change. That's it.
God, I hate that teacher, but I mean.
You're supposed to. He's one-dimensional.
I know, but he's played by Derek Hough and so my childhood was
watching and Dancing with the Stars with my grandmother and so
that was also made me happy just to see him in there.
There you. Go So one of the things I do
like about the show is that they're very big on like the
Found Family and the Sisterhood. And so Ashlyn creates this whole
number for Gina, Courtney and her, and it's called apparently
a three-way harmony or like the three-part.
So it's not a duet, it's a tercent, which I learned that
word. Oh cool.
Yeah. There's your word to spell out.
The answer? That's what I was thinking.
I was like, wait a minute, back is spelled wrong.
Tercent. Go for it Tercent.
But can I just say that they killed that number?
It's like described as a Cheetah Girls meets Spice Girls meets
not destiny. Shrub something like that, but
like all these like girl groups and they're so good.
But I love in the editing, you see them like there's mistakes
in there and like you just see them having tons of fun.
And it's like because there's behind the scenes footage of
when it's like a close up of Gina, like you just hear them
cheering her on in the background and it's just it
feels like such an empowering song for like the three of them
as well. And if you look Gina, Sophia
gets her earring caught on her costume I believe.
So she's like, but they kept it in and it was just, it's just
meant to be such a fun number and it's really cute.
And. Nice change to Lily, but let's
be real, I don't really care about Lily and I am so glad that
Ashlynn got the role of Belle. And not only does she deserve
it, but brings us to the next topic that is very necessary to
talk about. Yes, so again, not perfect, but
there is body positivity in the show.
Like there's diverse body types, there's multiple plus size
characters, and by plus size I just mean that aren't a tiny
stick, because like that is what Disney is in general, yes, and
like. Very annoying.
And also if there was any non stick characters they were
always like the quirky best friend and like yes they still
kind of do that but they they do come into their own in the show.
It just has to get rid of the stick people first.
Like just a good example. I know it's this is a little
slightly off, but that's so Raven.
It took forever for Raven to even become the main character.
Like they had to admit that she was the best actress and they
had to recast the whole thing and make her the main person.
But they could never see an African American girl who's
overweight be a main lead character on Disney.
That's insane, because Raven Symone is Raven.
How the fuck is it a show that's not about her when her name
isn't the title? It was not called.
That's a Raven at first. Yeah, it was a different title.
Most shows go through title changes before we even get to
them. Oh, I see, I see.
I think I thought it aired as something else.
No, no, no. I love her.
I love Raven. Symone.
Yeah, she was. She's great.
She was on The Cosby Show and she was fucking killing it as a
child. Like, yeah, amazing.
It's that's when I first saw her.
I was like, she's getting her own show it.
Amazes me when they cast like babies and like toddlers and
then they grow up to actually be good actors as well.
Like, I don't know if it's just because, like, they grow up
there, but like, they're taking a chance.
Like, especially if a show goes on forever, like that child
might grow up to be terrible at an actor, but whatever.
They super swap, they soap opera swap them out when they're young
so it doesn't matter. They just explain it.
They're like, no, that's Rodney, I swear.
Unless. Unless it's good luck, Charlie.
Then they use one baby only and it's her through the whole time.
But anyway, yeah, that's in good luck Charlie.
They also did that with the plus size African American best
friend in that show. So it's just small progress.
Does he make small progress at a time?
Yeah, but this plot line was great and OK, the body
positivity thing is not just limited to Season 2.
And it's not like visually. Yes, like we once it becomes
less of the Olivia Rodrigo and the boys show, it becomes more
about the theater trope and they're like dynamics with each
other and growing together because the show is becoming its
show, not its own show, Not like a, you know, rip off of
something else, which is what it started as basically.
So it the body positivity becomes plot, like actual plot
lines that they explore in a really good way.
It starts with Ashlyn here in season 2, but later we also get
it with Carlos and it's a really good and it's more of a queer
storyline at that point because the stereotype with queer men is
you have to essentially look like a model.
And he's like, I don't, I'm very aware of that.
And so he kind of goes through his own.
It starts in season three, but he goes through his own journey
with him dealing with his own body dysmorphia because of like
society stuff. But with Ashland, it's more so
about like the the theater and the casting and like because
again in this play it's Belle. And when you think of Belle from
Beauty and the Beast because Disney like picks an image and
they stick with that. So if you go to a Disney theme
park, like I had AI had a roommate who was a, who's a
character at who has worked at Disney in Florida and was a
character. And they are so fucking
particular about the body types of people who are going to be
cast as characters to walk around the park.
Like my roommate was Mickey Mouse because my roommate was a
certain height, and like you have to be a certain height to
be Mickey so that all the Mickey's look the same so that
they're very standardized. But to be a face character, like
my other roommate used to date a face character, I forgot if she
was Belle, she might have been, actually, I don't remember.
But like to be a face character, it's even more insane.
Like your face has to be a very specific shape, specific
dimensions. Your body type has to be very
specific dimensions so that all the bells, when you see the face
character, 'cause you can't hide behind the costume like with
Mickey, you just have to be a height, certain height, certain
width, 'cause they just put the mat, the suit on you.
But if your bell like your face has to be certain dimensions,
certain eye colors, all this stuff, so like there is no
diversity among the bells like Belle is Belle, no matter where
you go. So it's always a white girl who
looks like this who has these certain dimensions.
And so coming into this play where they're it's they're
casting a Disney like play you expect the bell to look a very
certain way and that's why we got Lily.
We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's who Disney would actually
cast if they were casting Belle, because they have an image in
your brain about who's Belle, they would cast Lily.
So I like that the show went through casting the right person
for the role based on the ability to play a Belle, not
just physicality of Belle. And then also further explored
that actors struggle with that and like how that, you know made
her think I wasn't going to be Belle, obviously I'm going to be
the teapot because look at me that that was would cast.
Really sad. Like she's like, obviously I'm
would be Missus Potts, like first of all she's assuming that
she's going to get a character, but like she never even
considers herself for the lead ever.
And like I relate to that because like you don't like, you
can't be the lead if you're plus size.
And then also in theater and dance in general, like there is
a stereotypical body type. And in the show, even the
dancers, they're not all one body type, which is for sure.
I can't tell you, Oh my God, why am I emotional?
How much that means? Because going through dance and
having everybody around you be skinny, it's so difficult and
it's so difficult to keep going and even be at that level where
you can be in things and you're pursuing it professionally.
It takes so much courage and self-confidence, yeah, to be
able to continue doing it because you're probably told
that you're too fat, that you're not the right potty type on a
daily basis and that's on addition.
That's in addition to being told no like fifth multiple times a
day when you're auditioning. So like, it's not the even just
like two of the main characters. Like we see them in the
background and the dancers and it it's more real when you have
that. And I love that they're doing
the same things. And like, it's not even like a
special section for them. They're doing everything that
the little twigs are doing because we can.
And that's why I when I was growing up, I was, I'm so
obsessed with being flexible. Because when I would do and like
my split is like this far off the ground because it would
impress people because they don't think you can do that as
when you're overweight And it it's just it sucks that this is
our world. And I just.
I just love that they're giving everybody a chance.
Yeah, and I mean that's and it's starting to get better in media
and granted, like remember like we are watching ATV production
of a fake high school casting a play.
So for ATV production, they can cast literally whoever they want
to be in this like that shows up at an audition.
Like they could have casted all twigs if they wanted to.
No offense to twigs, if you're a twig, like whatever, good, good
for you. No shaming.
It's just this is a common because it.
Does go both ways like Carlos, like he thinks like he's too
small and like it body and it's not just like plus sized people
who go through these body issues and we do see that in the show
which is so important as well. Yeah, exactly.
It's more about like diversity casting and like representation,
period. Not just queer representation,
but in all that, all the elements.
But OK, the fact that it's ATV Show, like they can cast
whatever they want. It's more realistic to cast it
this way anyway because it's supposed to be of a high school.
And it's like not just skinny people are auditioning for like
a high school play. There's like 20 people that.
It's not like you're getting thousands of people auditioning
like you would for ATV Show. There's a set number of people
at the school, an even smaller proportion, that want to do the
musical. Like you're going to get people
of different body types based on who shows up.
Like, it's just that's real life.
It's not. You're not going to get
everybody that looks like Olivia Rodrigo and the guy that plays
Ricky, Like that's not who's showing up in mass for a high
school in Utah musical. So this is more, it makes it
more real because this is more likely what you're actually
going to see in real life. And so it's important that it's
on TV to encourage people who would have otherwise been
discouraged. Like, personally, like, I would
love to have gone out for like any kind of acting in high
school. But I was always like, I am not
who I see playing leads because like you said, women, it's
better now. But women had like, you were the
love interest, and that was it. And so to be the love interest,
you had to look like Lily to be the love interest because
they're going to cast you based on body type.
And I was like, there's no way I'm getting cast for any of
these things. Also, these roles suck.
But like, I had the body thing where I was like, I don't have
the look for it. There's no way I would even get
cast. Why even try?
I'll just play sports where it doesn't matter what you look
like. That worked out well.
But like it's Seeing this on TV is important because This is why
representation matters, and it matters to see it on ATV show.
If to inspire people to do it in real life basically is what I'm
saying. Yeah, I did not expect this
season to, like get to me. Like when I was writing it, it
wasn't getting to me. But, like, now that we're
talking about it, like, so sorry if my voice sounds like, shaky
at all, because it's just bringing up a lot of, I guess,
trauma in a way, from doing theater.
God damn it. Sorry.
Damn it. It's real.
I have not cried in a year on this podcast, guys.
It doesn't miss. It's always when it brings up
childhood trauma. It's just because Julia Lester
played this so beautifully as well that I felt everything that
she feels OK, take your time. This was beautiful.
I just. I just hate that she never
expected to get the lead and and it didn't stop when she got the
lead. And so I brought this up before
on like as a joke on one of our podcasts.
But I was cast as the cow in Into the Woods, so I wanted one
of like the the lead. Not like lead, but like
supporting lead I guess. And it was like the first time I
let myself hope for it. So when I got the cow, it hurt
so bad. And for months I was going
around saying that, damn it, that I got the cow because I
looked like a cow and it I cried so much and I couldn't let other
people see how much it hurt me. And I don't know if they were
just trying to play it off and tell me that it was because the
director thought I was the only person who could be capable of
playing that character because of like the comedic timing or
like just like the physicality of having to play like.
I mean, it's like a character actor and I've like played
Snoopy before for this director and like dancing and stuff, but
it's just, it hurts. And going into audition, I knew
that I would always be typecast, like, but after I stopped being
in the ensemble all the time because I started later.
But I would be a parent because you can't, you can't be a high
school student. You can't be a love interest if
you're overweight because you look more like a parent.
You look like more an adult if you're overweight.
And so sorry, I get really upset with myself when I cry.
Don't be upset, this is all super fucked up and I'm sorry
you went through it. It's just it's very real though.
It's just it's important to show how much it affects people, cuz
like at that age. Yeah.
For sure, it's traumatizing and trying to figure out who you are
when you're being told that you're not good enough.
Yeah, for like my. Adults.
Yeah, for like the main characters and stuff.
It sucks. And it it holds you back from
figuring out who you were. So I wasn't allowed to have the
confidence in the high school because I was being put down and
I thought I looked like a cow so much as, which This is why I'm I
was a cow in the show and it actually ended up being one of
my favorite roles because I made it my own.
I was like, I went in there saying that I'm just gonna play
this up and I ended up crying as the cow.
But I did like a moo and the director loved it so much.
He's like put two in there and like, so I got to do whatever I
wanted. I made it my own and I loved it.
I got to be in one costume the whole time.
It was sweat. It was like a sweat suit, a
white sweat suit. The only thing is I had to be
milked on stage and that was very awkward.
So it's just like theater is weird in general and it's such
an awkward time. So, like, there is a lot of
trauma for, like, theater kids. So, like, that's why it's it's a
mental head game, which is why there's more drama in there, but
bringing it back to the show. Wait, bring it back to the show,
Caitlyn. If it makes you feel better,
Nene was also cast as a cow, which she did mention.
And I was like, so was Caitlyn. But I'm sure Caitlyn was better
because Nene is really not that good at this.
You. Know what?
Julia Lester played the cow when she was younger.
But you know what? At least she was a little kid
when she had to play. But yeah, so like I I relate to
Julia there because she played the cow, but then she ended up
being Little Red Riding Hood in the revival and got nominated
for a Tony for it. So go, girl.
Yep, I forgot that Mimi said that.
So during rehearsal, Miss Jen talks about how Belle is the
most beautiful girl in the land and you see you see Ashlyn's
face fall. And this, This is why I started
getting more emotional, 'cause, like, it's just feeling this.
She's like she's supposed to be the most beautiful.
She doesn't feel like she's the most beautiful.
And that's what our society makes us feel.
And so we see her. You see her just looks so
worried and she's playing with her hands.
And it's exactly what I do when I'm nervous.
And I think, I think a lot of people do that with their hands.
But. A lot of the actors do that on
this show, like Ricky does it later.
It's just like this is anxiety. And I I'm wondering if I if it's
not just like do you do this at all when you if you're anxious?
No. 'Cause I'm wondering if it's
like a theater, because we like, we have to.
Theater kids like more emphatic, like with gestures and things
because of acting. So like, wondering if like
playing with your hands is just like a thing.
But also they are also acting, so they're trying to show you
that they're nervous, so they're doing nervous things.
But also, Ashlynn pulls on her sweater.
And so it's just like all of the anxiety, like, I don't know if
it's stemming 'cause I don't think it's considered that, but
just to, like let the anxiety out like I relate to.
So it's just everything Ashlyn goes through has just brought
way too much back. And so she lets, but not really
let it. It just it gets to her and she
asks if she can take a quick five and she walks out of the
room because it's hard. It's so hard to like have so
much expectation on you when you don't feel like that's who you
are. And until doing these notes, I
didn't realize that it's what Miss Jen said.
I thought it was that Ricky wasn't, like, doing well.
I didn't even notice that it was Miss Jen's comment of Belle
being the most beautiful that makes Ashlyn start freaking out.
And so she walks out of the room.
And then there's this, the confessional, mockumentary type
thing where she says this is so dumb.
Look, I know who I am. I'm proud of who I am, but I've
seen the movie 100 times. Bella has a certain look.
It's iconic and that look isn't really me.
And sometimes that feels complicated.
I just hate. It this is, and This is why
stereotypes are harmful to people, for sure.
Apparently Apple thought that was a good playing and it gave
me a thumbs up. That's the worst reaction.
Yeah, you know what? You have to just go watch our,
like, listen to it and watch it. Because Theore updated her
computer and it just updated. To the Sonoma or whatever the
new ISO is, and it's really it automatically turned on
reactions for my camera and it's really weird, but anyway.
Going on, yes. Moving on.
I am going to try and keep myself composed, but obviously
this hurts me a lot more And This is why we need
representation like this. So there's hopefully a little
kid out there is like, I can be a lead, I can go out there and
go for anything and not just the background character.
Totally. I really, because I wish.
I wonder if I had stuff like this, if I would have been
strong enough to continue acting.
Because at one point I was going to do musical theater and I'm
like, that's not safe enough. I don't look right.
I'm not good enough. Yep.
But I get to do a little bit through this podcast of like
being on camera. And stuff.
So exactly that was the appeal. And but I.
Feel like I feel you on that. But it's because I've been
finding myself more and like being more confident with myself
and it took forever and it's luckily the representation is
getting better. So it's like I said, this kind
of healed my inner child. To quote the show, trust the
practice. They make sure you know that
that is a tagline and it's literally an episode title in
the four season. So later we're still in Ashlyn's
journey with this. Sorry, it's taking forever to
get through. She is walking with Gina who
tells her that waltzing is hard. Because obviously if you saw
that's like what I saw in the beginning.
It looks like she was upset that she couldn't get the dance with
Ricky and that they weren't doing well.
But that's not why she's upset. And Ashlyn responds that and she
says, I guess I just don't feel like a natural bell yet.
And like, she never outright says it's because she doesn't
have the right body type, but because it's like awkward when
you don't feel like you fit, Like you don't want to talk
about your weight, 'cause that's not what you're taught to do
well. Also like, look who she's
talking to. Like Gina.
Yeah, look at Gina. Like, that's not the person you
have the conversation later. Ashley has the conversation, I
think, with Big Red, but like. Yeah, you.
Don't have this conversation with Gina, who's, like,
classically beautiful. Yeah, who wouldn't understand?
It, she says So after she says, I don't feel like a natural bell
yet, she says. I mean, we've all seen the
movie. She's Gina, interrupts her.
And she just says a cartoon and you're everything.
And that's all Ashlyn needs to hear.
Like, not all she needs to hear, but, like, she really needed to
hear that, especially from Gina. Like Gina's becoming her sister
because, like, they're roomies now.
And like, This is why. Like, I hope that there's people
like, not even like everyone who has body issues, especially from
seeing characters on TV hear this because it's a cartoon.
It's a drawing. This isn't real people.
Yeah, you have people who look like Lily, but Lily probably has
something about herself that she doesn't like, because we're so
obsessed with the way we look that no one can love who they
are. I mean, I hear my mom talk about
herself and I'm like, she's so gorgeous, but she can't see
that. Like, no one can't see how, like
how beautiful they are. Because we're as a society,
we're told that we're not good enough no matter how we look.
It's just so annoying. Yeah, we're we all kind of hate
ourselves on some level, I'm pretty sure.
But it doesn't help that Ashlyn and Lily are literally pitted
against each other. And this isn't like like from a
narrative point. Like this was important to show
for The Body Positive. Like have her like feel better
about herself because she's she's she is just as good as
Lily if not better. I mean we don't really see Lily
as Belle so like we can't compare their.
Not that we should because they're both probably amazing in
their own ways because female empowerment people empowerment.
OK, I'm getting really passionate over.
It down at the patriarchy. I said that one time and my dad
said look who's bringing out the big words.
I'm like, patriarchy's a big word.
It's not a big word. Oh.
If you're commenting. That as a young dad kid, we need
to learn that word because that is what.
The root of all the problems? That's where this stems from.
That's where it's putting women against each other.
So that's why, like, there is a bit of that in this and I don't.
And I there there's another part that I will backtrack a little
bit because I said something I'm like, we really shouldn't be.
But they portray Lily as such a mean girl that it's hard to
like, not it's hard to actually like her.
You're not supposed to like her, though.
She's set up to be the villain, but you're just, you're not
supposed. To It's really hard because we
need to, like, not put women down like we need more I.
Agree. I agree.
But I like that they're I like that they are making this
plotline and they have to have a foil to somebody you compare
Ashlyn to in order to visually do this.
So yeah. So of course she starts freaking
out when Lily, when it's revealed that Lily won't just be
Co directing the show, 'cause it was bad enough that the North
High change from Little Mermaid to Beauty and the Beast Witch, I
don't think they they wouldn't have gotten the rights because
there's already another show in the area.
So the rights would not have worked out, 'cause you have to
apply for rights. You can't just do any show,
yeah. It's and again because again
this is a clear rip off because you can't have East High versus
North High in any kind of head to They have to compare.
Thing is, they were already competing when they were doing
little mermaids, so it was just them.
Like this is just for drama purposes.
They didn't have to do life. No.
First of all, they couldn't. Also, we'll get more into things
that they can't do, but they do anyway later, 'cause I have a
lot of thoughts about that. I take my law very seriously.
Apparently, yes, So Lily is actually Belle in North High's
production. So now poor Ashlynn is like, I
already don't feel like Belle right now.
And the girl who I know looks like a cartoon and like, she
says it multiple times in this season, that like Lily, the girl
who looks like a literal Disney character cartoon.
Yeah, I vaguely remember her. It's like, yes, this girl has
been in her head since she got the role, Before she got the
role. Yes.
And I just have to say, This is why I'm like, I want to empower
Lily, but at the same time, we really can't.
So we're just just go with me on this.
I have to argue that Ashlyn captures Belle more because
there is a joyfulness in Ashlyn's eyes when she does it.
And like, she's so happy to be Belle.
And like, when she's singing and stuff, like she does embody
Belle in that audition. You saw Belle.
And then my whole line is that there's a joyfulness in her eyes
that the evilness of Lily could never.
Yeah, I mean. I mean, like in Lily's audition.
Like it looks like she's gonna kill people, in my opinion.
Right. She's not right for the role.
But I also mentioned I was biased earlier, so.
So what it is demonstrating is that the looks aren't everything
when it comes to acting. It's a component.
Perhaps that is taken into consideration, but if you're
supposed to be playing a joyful character and you're not acting
that way in your audition, that's points against you.
So yeah. Yeah, but again, it's hard to
not compare yourself to someone you are literally competing
against. Correct.
Like you're competing. That's part of this.
That's why like this is, this is can easily turn into toxic
culture because it's it is hyper competitive.
There's one spot. Only one person can get it.
And when you add these outdoor outside competitions in it, it
makes it. I mean, at least you're not
competing with your fellow classmates and it's like a
different school, so like you don't have as much connection
with them. So I feel like that's slightly
better, but there's a lot of competition.
But yeah, I I guess that's kind of the same with sports though,
because you are competing against the other schools.
I mean, it's not that too like you're not competing in a
vacuum. So if you yes, there's the
musical, but then there's also like, if you want to make a
career out of this or potentially go to an art school,
you have to also build a resume. So it's like it's more than just
the pressure of this one thing, right?
So yeah, it's like the individual competition of me of
like Ashlyn versus Lily to get the role.
But if like Lily wants to go on the Broadway, she has to build
the resume. So just being in the musical
isn't enough for her to build the resume.
She has to be the lead. So, like, it's more than just
the one competition. There's the whole thing is
competitive to make this a career, like, all of it.
And so every little thing is stressful.
So for somebody like Lily, like, she has to be crazy driven.
And like, maybe you have to be cutthroat because if I don't,
like, I have to succeed to get where I need to go.
If you're just doing this for fun, that's great.
But like, I'm trying to make a career out of this.
Like it. Just it snowballs into toxicity
is what I'm saying cause. The whole.
Culture of it is a one big giant competition to like succeed,
basically. Theater is rough and there's no
money in it. Yeah, for sure.
It's so hard to make a living in it, but like, there's it's so
competitive. I mean, I don't again, I'm not
in the sports world. I tried out for field hockey
ones and I couldn't run, so I felt bad about myself and never
went back. So, like, it's in everything for
sure. Yeah, Yeah.
But in that episode we see Ashlyn and Courtney both gain
confidence. And like, I like that we see
confidence build in these characters.
And like the importance of confidence is prominently
displayed in the show. Yes.
Which is so important for especially the age group that
it's geared towards. So like, just as a quick
background in the show, in this episode, Courtney, it's
Courtney's first show with like an actual part.
Like he actually went on for Taylor for like three scenes in
the first High School Musical. And she's so worried.
She was mostly wardrobe. So yeah, Yeah, because that.
That's her main thing, which, yeah, she's a lot more than
that, but we'll get into that. She's so nervous about
performing and like she blew out the levels, like the mics in
when she sang in the first season, which not her fault.
It's the it's the levels that they were doing.
It's not her. Like they need to adjust for
her. It was.
It's never her. Fault.
So just saying you're. Perfect.
Just the way you are, Courtney. But her anxiety, like that's a
that's a a character trait they end up exploring throughout the
rest of the show, which. Was her also extremely important
and which is really good? Exactly.
So that gets and that's why I said in the last episode we did
that. It's not just about singing and
dancing with those like those type of things.
Like, there's some really important things they cover that
I'm glad, and I'm glad that I got the C.
Yeah, And and they cover it well.
Like the body positive E topic, I think they cover really well.
Courtney's anxiety, stage performance, whatever you want
to call it, also evolves into something really, really good.
So yeah, I I agree. And I just want to give some
more time to Carlos's journey with this because it's more
spread out than Ashland's, which is like predominately the whole
season. But Carlos, you see multiple
comments throughout the every season.
So in season three it probably starts earlier, but like I was
as I was going along, I noticed it more.
Carlos makes a comment that there isn't a dressing room for
Olaf like there, so he has to spend the whole day in the
costume. And this is where you see Miss
Jen like be like very cognizant cognizant of her students and
like understand them. Like she is a good teacher
because she sees right through that comment And later she asked
him if he needs a quick change booth for Olaf and his Carlos's
response is I think I just need Ryan Gosling's torso.
So, like, he's he just doesn't like the way it looks.
And like we talked about this already, no one does.
I mean, if you do, then good for you.
Yeah. And then Miss Jen is always so
supportive and she responds with Someday you may learn to love
your own 'cause she oh, she never wants to be like oh, you
can like work out more like that.
She's like, no, you are perfect the way you are.
And later in that season, there is a We're just putting this in
now because it wouldn't make sense to talk about this in two
different seasons. That's fine.
So later there's a camp tradition where the guys take
off their shirts for some reason and dump a cooler of ice water
on themselves. It actually might just be cold
water, but whatever. This makes Carlos extremely
uncomfortable. Because yeah, also why it
sounds. Like it's a it's it's a man
thing. They're like how tough we are.
But basically he's like, I don't want to take my shirt off
because I don't feel comfortable with that.
And like, he's having this conversation with EJ when we get
to the camp because he just like, it's tradition, it's
tradition. And then eventually he's like,
it's it. Carlos like explains why and
he's like, that's fine if it makes you uncomfortable, don't
do it. So it ends well.
But yeah. But like, I think it's important
to note that he says I'm not the type of guy to show off my body
to others. And then he says, or myself,
'cause like he doesn't even like to look at himself.
And that's the struggle for him. And later he decides that he
wants to do it. Like he gets a little more
confidence. And during it, Ricky helps him
out. And he says, you got this, no
one is judging you, bro. And that is what he needs to
actually go through it. And when Zeb cheats on him, we
will talk about that later. Yeah, I mentioned this part
earlier too. Yeah, this is like where the
queer, harmful queer. Stereotype comes, he backtracks
like all the products, like because like this guy, he's
thinking that he's getting rejected because he doesn't.
And he says there he tells Miss Jen that there's expectations
that a gay man should have a six pack and have perfect white
teeth and look like a model. And unfortunately, yeah, like,
why Stereotypes. Are harmful exactly.
And. So I like that they addressed
the harmful gay man stereotype and using this body dysmorphia
cause like you say that he backtracks, but like.
Not really, but it's always going, you're right.
Something like body dysmorphia is not something that like you
can just cure. Like it's.
Yeah. And I mentioned that with
Courtney's anxiety, it wasn't the right words to use because
like just because you're able to do something one time does not
mean like all your issues are fine.
Like. Yeah, it's like Angle or Coaster
in Courtney's potline specifically.
I think they do actually address that.
And they're like anxiety doesn't just go away.
Like you learn to live with it like some character says to her.
So it's the same with this. Like body dysmorphia is not
something that just kind of goes away.
And it's really hard because although you're dealing with
your way, like like Carlos deals with it and handles it and
learns to handle it, but you still live in the world that has
that stereotype placed on you. So it's like you have to learn
resilience basically for dealing with it because like, the world
isn't changing. Like, even though you are.
So yeah, basically. But that good plotline, I'm glad
they included those things in here, yeah.
But then also we see Miss Jen again reassure him that he
doesn't need to look a certain way and that he is who he is.
And it's beautiful. Yes, OK.
I think we've had a lot of deep conversation.
Can you tell that one hit a nerve?
A little bit. I mean, it's a, it's the.
Honestly, it's the best plot line in the show in my opinion.
Yes, that and the mental health thing.
Like those are like the two big things that I'm so glad that are
in there. I I do wish like mental health
was a little more than just like the one character.
But I will take what we can get at this point.
Yep. So.
All right. Yeah, moving on to Gina.
So she we mentioned that she moves around a lot.
And I wanted to talk about this because I also related to this
growing up. So she always reinvented herself
wherever she went. So she doesn't actually know who
she is because she always kept trying to be someone else
whenever she moved. And so she doesn't have the
friends. Like, they never stuck, 'cause
she was always going like, she's not even there.
A full year, 'cause she mentioned like one year that
she's like all the places I lived in 7th grade, so she was
in multiple schools. So now that she is staying,
thanks to Ashlyn inviting her to live with her.
Now no matter how that happens, the aura Gina now needs to
figure out where she fits and 'cause she's never really had to
worry about that before, so she's just trying to make her
own and be her own person. So Carlos is one of the first
people who like, truly understand Gina cause like when
he asks her to be his Co choreographer, she gets so
excited because she thinks that he's asking her to be the sole
choreographer. She's like, OK yes, this is what
I can do. This is my thing.
But then when he tells her like Co choreographer, her face
immediately falls and like and she gives like lame excuse like
oh I probably won't have enough time and he just responds.
Cool. What's the real reason?
And I just love that he could see her enough to know that,
like, it's not OK to just, like, brush over, Like, you need to
get into like, what's going on and make her open up, 'cause she
the type of person who needs to be, like, not forced, but like,
you have to. Get the feelings out of.
Her, you have to talk about, yeah, draw out, like how she's
actually feeling. So she doesn't like, internalize
everything. So yeah, that's that.
And then one of the episodes that I want to talk about is
when Seb gives Carlos the gay quinceanero of his genes.
And. This, the keen say, is one of
the cutest episodes. I love this episode.
Yeah, it's so sweet like, oh, poor Seb.
OK, I don't have this written down, but poor Seb being
terrible at lying, which also doesn't make sense later.
But he's like, I just figured I've never learned how to lie.
So I figured if I don't talk, I can't tell him the truth.
So he just kind of like nods the whole time and it's just so cute
and adorable. Oh no.
Like literally I my note on this is Seb is the best boy.
He is a ray of sunshine in human form.
I love all the scenes of him lying, trying to lie but failing
super hard. My favorite scene is with him
and the it's not the Zeb Zeb, it's the yes and episode.
We're All Hell is breaking loose after North High drops that
Beauty and the Beast video and the drama teacher is like giving
them a pep talk and like North High is all bells and whistles,
which is basically bullshit. All we need is and there's like
a dramatic pause. The camera pans and Subs, says
Friendship. Like I love him.
They do him dirty. They do him dirty with the
cheating thing because it's so out of character and so stupid
and it was just for drama. But like, he is the best boy and
I will stand by that. He's so sweet.
He's the little puppy dog in this one.
Yeah, this episode is really cute.
But the thing when I was watching this, 'cause you have
to watch more closely when you do the podcast.
So and because we were like analyzing characters rooms
before, I noticed Carlos's locker and it is the gayest
thing ever. I never noticed it before.
So there is rainbow Chevron wallpaper in there.
Pride Salt Lake stickers, A Pride flag.
Because of course. And then I believe there's like
a small Ruth Bader Ginsburg doll.
On RBG. In there, Nice love.
It a mirror that says love you on it because it's just like
he's he doesn't love his outward self, but the inside he is
confident with who he is. He is not ashamed to be gay.
Good for you Carlos. And I love that and that's
important for people to see as well.
And then I also think there's like a jewel chandelier in
there. Amazing.
So I love his lockers. So at the Keen, say Seb talks
about how Carlos is his hero and there's a video that Gina plays
of Carlos from 7th grade and he's just unapologetically
himself. He's like, these are the things
I want for my birthday. And he does this dance that he
came up with and like the start of the choreographer in him.
And Gina, like, does the dance for him as a gift.
And but Seb talks about how when he was 13 that he watched the
video at least 100 times. And there's like 1000 views on
the video. So like 10% of that was just him
hiding in his room and in his words, in every sense of that
word, watching Carlos being unapogetically himself.
And for Seb who we find out later is still not out to his
dad, that's everything to him. And it was so cute and makes my
heart melt. And it shows that you really do
need to just be yourself, because even if there are some
people who make fun of you, there will always be people out
there who will see it and they will get more courage to be
themselves. Like, I hope when I dance and do
things like I'm I there's some younger kid being like, oh, OK,
I can do that. Just because I'm overweight
doesn't mean I can't do it. Something like that.
I don't know. Yeah, hopefully.
Representation. Representation matters.
And like, that's what I hope people get from this podcast as
well. So.
Yeah, so things forward. This episode has Seblosis, which
is their ship name because I don't think we've mentioned that
before. Their first kiss and it would
have been the first ever Disney original live action series with
the same sex kiss. But that title was given to Big
Shots which aired one week before this episode.
Oh cool. And I also love that show but
they cancelled it and took it off of Disney Plus and you can
no longer watch it. Classic.
Yes. Side note it.
OK, so this was this is a self promotion plug.
OK, so side note, it was mentioned that Carlos was the
captain of the colored guard in the first season.
So I talked the guard that I'm in that I was forced to be in by
my mother into putting the song Gina sings in this episode, A
Dancer's heart, into our show. So if you happen to like guard
shows, know what Tia is and are near South Jersey, you can find
me at the Tia Chapter One shows and championships.
Come say hi. Yeah.
And if anyone actually does, I'm gonna be really.
Impressed, but I don't know if this is gonna like air in time.
We perform to until May, June, OK.
Then you're good. Yeah.
There's time. Yeah, it starts in February.
We're just in rehearsals right now.
OK, All right. Sorry for, like, all the like
the self stories. But like, This is why I love the
show so much. So, so quick thing I want to
point out that is relatable to me.
I mentioned earlier that my school competed in a theatre
competition. We also had a rival kind of.
I went to West and East had and probably still does an amazing
theatre program. I their budget had to have been
like at least double ours. There is also a S but at least
at the time the joke was that no one cares about South or South.
They're just too new to have a rival.
Anyway, I'm really glad E didn't compete directly with us because
hold on, because they did have a bigger budget and a nicer
theater and like, they they probably, definitely would have
won over us. Seeing their show is like when
the Wildcats saw N like they're they're set like, it's so
beautiful. We're like, we get like these,
like folding tables. Anyway, we got one good set one
time and we were amazed. That's so sad.
Anyway, it is a good thing we were never directly pitted
against each other formally, like in our what was called the
Cappy's was our right competition.
Because I swear it would have been like our football team's
rivalry, which is bad. I mean, like the end of bottom's
bad, like police involved, like arrest.
Yeah, we. Oh, there's a reason my high
school was in the news like four times in high school in like
senior year, one year, one year. We were always had news trucks
outside. I'm like, please go away.
I just want to go to school. OK, two more quick things.
When they sing Second Chance in the last episode, they are
wearing the same clothes. So it's EJ, Nini, Gina and Ricky
as their original edition clothes.
And I also love that song. And Natalie has a great line in
the penultimate episode where she says members of the company,
this is your 10 minute call to act two.
Please everyone remain in the same role you started in and I
just, I just love that one because of the last one was a
shit show. Yes.
All right, so now a few dislikes or like one big one that like
really really really bugs me. I I can see that.
And they finally address it in Season 2, when Lily tells them
that they will be disqualified from the competition if they
perform an original song in Beauty and the Beast.
And that's because you're not allowed to add shit to these
shows. And they keep adding songs and
characters, and you're not allowed to do that.
And in Season 3, Ashton says that they weren't allowed to add
characters to that show. She checked because you're not
allowed to. Anyway, so MTI is their
licensing agent, which we learned.
I didn't even realize that they said it in season three until I
went back again and watched it. MTI is music musical theater,
international, and I unfortunately have way too much
experience with them. But when you are granted a
performance license by MTI, by law, this is what it says on
their website. The license must be performed as
is. You have no right to make any
changes at all unless you have obtained prior written
permission. Yeah, right, Miss Jen, you
definitely didn't do that from MTI to do so.
Otherwise, any changes violate the author's rights under
federal and international copyright law.
Yeah. OK, that's not the only thing
that's wrong with this. Like, also like you're doing a
Disney production. There's no way in fucking hell
Disney is going to let you fuck with a Disney production.
All. The awesome all the copyrights
we were always. Told that we weren't allowed to
change things. And I'm still bitter about OK,
so I was the village idiot because of course, you know my
type in Young Frankenstein which was also a very fun role.
Like like it's. I mean, it's a kind of.
Fun with my roles. It just sucks.
Like I could never be the roles I actually wanted.
I get that. But the line so the my the
person others speaking was supposed to say we have to get
this town something that it needs or that it wants something
that it's always needed. And my line was supposed to be a
gay bar and the director made me say Starbucks instead.
And I was pissed off. I didn't even know I was gay at
that time. OK.
But I wanted to say that line. So because it was so much better
than a Starbucks. It is way better, yeah.
I asked our artistic director, like, why she wouldn't let me
say it. Because I didn't think it was
the director's idea. Because he is gay himself and
she's like, oh, it wasn't my idea And I'm like, oh shit.
And she's like, he probably just didn't want to make it seem like
because of like, the stereotype that gay men recruit.
So, like, for sure. And I'm like, can I just say it?
Anyway, she wouldn't let me because she's like, the director
gets the final say and all that. I'm like, fine.
Should have just said it anyway, just a little bitter.
Just a little. Tiny bit all right.
Also in the spring break episode, Gina takes out her
script and it has highlighted writing all over it.
This also isn't allowed because you are only renting the scripts
for like the full length productions and you have to
return them after you're done. If it's a junior show, then you
get to keep the script, but full length gets sent back so you
have to use pencil and erase it before returning.
And I currently have way too many junior scripts that I don't
know what to do with and it seems wrong to throw them out,
so they're just sitting on a shelf.
OK, so that's the second legal thing.
Third illegal thing, the poster in Miss Jen's office.
And this has bugged me since the very first time I was like
there's no way that that's allowed.
So the poster at Miss Jen's office from High School Musical
it says Miss Jen presents in huge letters East High's High
School Musical directed by Miss Jen choreographed by Carlos.
So really there's set things that has to be on the poster and
there's a specific percentages of like the title that it has to
be like so big so it really should say the East High
production of Disney's High School Musical and then they
have to add book by so and so songs by all those names.
Music is adapted, arranged and produced by their name, based on
a Disney Channel original movie written by You have to put so
many words on this freaking poster and then you have to put
Mt is thing of like Disney High School Musical presented by to
the arrangement with MTI and all that stuff.
So miss Jen, I know you love yourself, but like you can't.
You just can't. I feel like she made that up
just to put in her office, and it's not actually advertised
anywhere. It's like fan art.
I I wouldn't, but it seems that the way that they're going, I
think that's how they presented the show.
It's also true. And it's also like you can have
this in the show because it is a actual Disney television show.
So, but that's what. They all are but the thing.
Is. I'm surprised they are OK with
that because then it's just showing people that stuff and
like so that's what they're seeing.
It's just it's meant to be a joke though, because it shows
you like Miss Jen's ego, because her name is so big.
Because if you know all this about what the poster's supposed
to look like, you know that it's wrong.
And this is Miss Jen's ego over the whole thing.
And her ego is like her main trait from like season one to
season 2, and it starts getting less and less as she becomes
more of a teacher and less of an egomaniac.
But like and that's what it's really.
Do also normal people don't know this much about MTI.
Correct. There's that too.
I hope you learned something. Yes.
All right. And I think do you have anything
else about Season 2 that you want to talk about?
Yes, I love that there's less Olivia Rodrigo because Nene is
annoying as fuck. OK.
Yes, I didn't even talk about. OK, listen, they wrote this
character. No, I don't care about Olivia.
I listen. I'm millennial.
Olivia Rodrigo, to me, ripped off a Paramore song, and that
makes me upset. Granted, Haley was involved in
that, but it makes me upset. We don't know Olivia personally.
We do not talk like we're not attacking.
Yeah. No, no, no.
I just didn't think that. No, no, no.
Not attacking her, Just it's easier to use the actor's name
'cause I I hate the name Nini. I think it's so stupid.
You can say Nina, that's her. Actually, I will not say either
of them. So I they wrote her character
essentially to be too good and too perfect.
And to me it reads as fake. And the same thing goes for like
Ricky, for like most of the show.
So to me, she just came off as really annoying because they
tried to make her a Disney Princess right off the gate and
it's annoying. It's because it feels fake.
So I'm glad there's less of Nene, because then the other
characters get to shine and grow into their own and like it just
feels better. I'm glad she's doing music and
like she's living her own life right now because it helped us
end the show. But yes, also I love that when
she's at the school, the only, like, the only part that I got
paid attention to was like the coloring difference, to show
like how bad that school, like how like grim and like dull that
school was like the coloring was so different and like, yeah,
that that's cool. Because it's just supposed to be
her. I really didn't pay attention to
any of her plot lines, but it's. It's OK, I mean.
It's it's her feelings in the school, not necessarily what the
school is like. So it's just, again, it's the
school you're seeing in Denver is a reflection of like through
her lens and she thinks it's a grim, but I think it's great
because you were really annoying and I'm glad you're not here
because it made the episodes better about the actual high
school. And I'm glad they didn't take a
part away from anyone. I mean, yeah, they added
something for her, but like, she wasn't the lead.
It just, it still sucks because I want to know, I kind of wish
that she was auditioning with them.
And Ashlyn still gets the bell roll because I feel like that.
I mean, yeah, she got it over Lily, but like, Nene was
expected to be, though, and it's just because she's not at the
school is why she's not like that's.
I feel like that's probably what's going through Ashlyn's
head as well. Sure.
Absolutely. Like, every.
That's why, like, Gina's like, oh, I can be the lead now.
Like, literally, that's what that's on everybody's mind.
And unfortunately, that is what happens in school.
So, like, yeah, once you the lead.
Well, 'cause it's like that and it's like the chemistry with the
guy and like they have chemistry on screen.
So like, you know, 'cause obviously Troy is always the
lead or not. Troy knock off, Troy is always
the lead. So you you always say.
Troy and I'm just like going with it.
So guys, no, it's Ricky. It's knock off Troy because like
their names are not worth. But it's most likely Troy.
I mean their names. Are not worth remembering for
me. But I will talk about OK, the
other thing breaking it back, my grievances again with like knock
off Troy and Olivia Rodrigo's character.
So when she does come back then there's because she's gone for
like a month and that's forever. So Ricky is basically like, Oh
my God, I just, I want her to come back and it's this whole
thing. So she finally comes back
because she's decides, decides like I hate the school, I want
to be back at my other school or whatever.
So she comes back and then they get together by the end of
season one. So now there's drama because
they're apart. Then when they get back, I'm
like obviously this show is based on relationship drama, so
they're going to break them apart because we have to.
But the reason they do it is so forced and contrived and it's so
annoying. It's basically like Ricky's
parents go through the divorce and then he puts all of his
insecurities about the divorce on to Nini.
And then he's that's what ends up breaking them up, really.
So he, like, puts all these, like, unrealistic expectations
on her. He gets her into the play
because she shows up, but she's not really there.
So it's like, oh, we're not really spending time together.
And it's like you have weekends. Like you can do this outside.
Of the play Why are we? Forcing this, But then he's
like, OK, I have to get her into the play.
So then he's the one that comes up with, like, if she, we can
write a song together and then she can put an original song in
the play, which, like you said, is illegal, but this is all his
manipulation. So then they're like, great,
let's do that. And then like, they try to write
the song together, but not really.
Nene ends up doing it herself. And then he's like, oh man,
we're supposed to write that together now?
We're still not hanging out. What the fuck?
So I'm like, dude, all of this shit is temporary.
You can hang out on the weekends, like, why?
Like, why it? It's just it's so fucking
annoying like that that that's what breaks them up, is like
they're doing stuff together, but they're not spending enough
time together together, 'cause that's the only time we can hang
out and that's what breaks them up.
It's like. I OK, I I don't really pay
attention as much when Ricky's on the screen.
So I just saw it more as like Nene was just growing too far
apart from him. Like she was becoming her own
person with music. Like she was finding herself
that she liked music more. Like even when she was at Yak
the actress Conservatory, she wanted to start a song writing
club. So like she's always more geared
towards music. And so she was finding.
That but like the tension between them from Ricky is we're
not hanging out together enough and doing things together
enough. But it it's again, it's the
lesbian time in the show where it's like this is all the time
we have and this is forever and it's like how long is rehearsal?
Like an hour or two hours. Like you could do stuff outside.
Of that that's not the end of the world.
Like and like they both. And the fact that they grew
apart because of songwriting is also stupid because he is also a
songwriter. Like they still have things in
common. It's just framed in such a way
to me it feels fake, like they're just trying to force
them apart for drama reasons. So that we can bring Gina into
the mix as a love triangle. So that like all that kind of
stuff. It's just it's like they're
trying to create drama and it just reads as fake to me.
That's fair for two people. Who, like grew up together and
are on the same page? It doesn't.
It's weird the way it happens out of nowhere and it's like,
yeah, we're different people now.
It's been a week. It's just so stupid to me.
I'm like, what is happening? Like, what is time in this
television show? I think it's ridiculous.
OK, other thing that I I liked about the show, about season 2.
I liked the Spring Break episode.
Yeah. I liked it because to me, it was
my favorite episode so far because it was less focused on
the musical stuff and all the drama with the musical and it
was just the characters. I liked that because it let the
characters breathe and it let the show breathe and become its
own thing versus like, we're still in, you know, Glee, we're
got a rival group shit going on it just let it be.
And I thought it was really good.
I thought the music was really good in this.
Episode I like the I like the song that Ashlyn and Nene write
together. Yeah, I thought there's two,
there's two original songs this episode.
I thought both are really, really great.
And then what was also interesting, it was also funny
is like North High placed this, like posted like a slander video
and like shame, like shaming them for taking a break during
spring break. Again, lesbians, it's a week.
It's not the end of the fucking world.
And so The East High's response is to put a song and dance
together in an hour virtually, which was nuts.
But the choreography for it is really cool because they're not
all physically together. So the way they had to, like,
edit it was honestly creative for ATV adaptation of something.
And I thought it was really clever, the way they crafted
that, put it together and then ended up editing it.
I thought that translated really well for TV, So that was
awesome. Whoever came up with that idea,
like kudos to you. That was awesome.
They they're you can see they're rehearsing of that song on
YouTube, but also I'm more impressed that they did.
So they not only wrote a song in one day, learned it, did the
choreography in one day, but Big Red also edit that shit so quick
with all those transitions and stuff.
I don't buy it. But anyway.
Yeah, I don't buy it either. They say they did it in an hour,
which is also insane, which doesn't make any sense.
It takes me an hour to edit this podcast.
Like, how the fuck were they doing that?
So. Oh my gosh, no.
So, like, it's it's this thing of like, oh, we know the song
and dance without even rehearsing it.
But you know, we'll give it to them because it was fun to
watch. All right.
There's one more thing I have to talk about.
I think it's in that episode. I can't remember.
Ricky plays this. He's at home and he's all sulky
or not at home. He's with his mom.
Yes, he's at his mom's. I think it's this episode.
I can't remember. In my notes.
My notes don't tell me that, so that's why.
But thank you. OK, so he's playing the song on
the piano in his room, I guess by himself.
I was gonna take a screenshot of this, but I didn't have time.
Basically I want to talk about the set up because I think it's
so dramatic and funny. He's by himself singing the song
at a piano and there's like electric candles everywhere.
Like his mom did not set this up.
He must have set this up as this dramatic as fuck setting to sing
this really sad song. I think it's about how him and
Nene are growing apart, but I can't remember because I don't
really care. But like the fact that he set up
the ambience to be dramatic as fuck so he could sing his own
song by himself. Iconic behavior.
I love when characters do that shit like they did it in
Motherland, where like, Oh my God, one of the characters was
like obsessive, like put candles everywhere just to have a
dramatic moment and like, Lexa and The 100 just has candles.
Yeah, like that's it. Just, you say, just to be.
Dramatic as fuck. And you're like, there is no
need for any of us, but you obviously needed this and you
were the one that set this up. I find that whole shit like that
really hilarious. So like the Ricky seems funny.
I think of Lexa from the 100 because that was a running joke
and that show like the candle budget.
But I just love when characters set their own mood like nobody
else was there. He did that and I find that
really funny so he could sing the song dramatically by
himself. He's like, you know what?
Candles are relaxing. I need that.
I love it. In this episode we meet Jack who
is played by Asher Angel and he spends the day in the airport
with Gina. That was just a quick note.
They were the the two of them were Co stars in Andy Mack
together. So yeah, they used to work
together, which is why he asked, do I know you like you look
familiar? Because yes, you guys worked
together for three seasons, three or Four Seasons before.
So another Disney show. Yes, that is Andy Mack.
We talked about a bit in the coming out episode, actually,
because the guy who we see, Jack, he's the guy that the kid
who comes out has a crush on, got it and they come out to.
So Gina, who's played by Sophia, plays Buffy in that show.
It's also a great show. You can't see the whole thing
because there was an issue with an actor in there, but you can
watch it illegally, kind of. And then also select episodes on
Disney. And I I love that show too
because it it definitely different for Disney.
I mean the sister is actually her mom and she had a teen
pregnancy. So like, it's just out of
nowhere for Disney and that's why I love that show and it's
also good Asian American or I don't want to get it wrong so
but like representation, like diverse cast and like main
characters. Nice, Yeah.
Anything else for Season 2, Caitlin?
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, OK, so if anyone's
listening and like loves a show like how I'm talking about it
and want to talk about it with me, go OK, go to our discord.
Join our discord. Just join the Discord.
Because. I want to.
Screen with people and it's just I there's just so much in there.
And the bottom line is I love Ashlyn, OK?
That's that's what I get out of Season 2.
Yeah, we got to plug the Discord in the promo thing too.
Yeah, so link to the Discord if you go, if you're on our
socials. I think if you're watching on
YouTube, even if you're listening, there's a link to the
Discord directly, if you're listening or watching.
If you're go to our socials, our link tree link is everywhere.
You can click it. That's the very first thing is
the. We have channels for everything.
Everything, all the, all the crew screaming and like.
We have such a good community and we're like very active with
you guys, like we'll talk to you.
So if you want to talk to us, that's a great place to do it.
Yeah, and like, if you talk with us, like we could use your give
you a shout out on the podcast when we talk about that episode,
which is also fun. Yes, we will always give you
credit if we bring up your point and if you join your Patreon,
you get exclusive channels too, so.
Yeah, true for, yeah, exclusive screaming.
Yes, so like if like the other chats are like too busy and like
you get more intimate contact with us on those private
channels. Exactly.
So yeah, come scream with us. So if that's the end of season
2, we will continue talking about season three and four like
the show gets. Honestly keeps getting better
from here. Like we, we talked.
So much more about things we loved in this episode.
Because it wasn't trying to be Glee and it did its own plot
lines that were really good. So yeah, so we will keep talking
about this. We'll go on to Season 3 next and
then Season 4, but before we sign off we will go to the
Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale. This is a scale.
From 1:00 to 10:00. We hydrate because, like water,
queer media is essential for life.
So, Caitlin, how much would you hydrate for Lesbian Jesus for
season 2 of High School Musical The Musical The Series?
It's really hard because since Ashley gets the lead like
that's, she's the main in my in my character, in my eyes.
So like I don't think I can give it any higher.
I think maybe 6.5. OK, that's pretty good.
That's good. I would give it a I'm going to
give it a 5 because I think this less Nini, it's much better.
There was very important storylines that were done here.
The original music was really good.
I think it's it gets better as it becomes its own thing and
like there's no new queer Rep really like it's saying queer
characters but like they got, they had more prominent like
storylines where they were their own people.
So I enjoyed that and it the show starts to get its own voice
and some of the characters so like much better than season
one. And you saw?
Everyone now knows how much it hit me.
Yeah, it's really good. So and keep watching with us,
get going to season three, season four.
Do you have anything else to say before we sign off?
Yes, and just a reminder that your bonus secret word, whatever
it's called, that you want to put in the comments without
looking up how to spell or the a review anywhere that you are
able to is the word tercit tercit.
Thank you, Ashlyn, for teaching us that word.
Yes, and hopefully we'll learn more vocabulary in the next
season. So until next time, hydrate for
lesbian. Jesus and gay.
Enough all over the place. Bye.