Hello and welcome to Big Gay Energy.
I'm Caitlin. And I'm Fiora.
Come along with us while we dive into the fun and nuances of
queer media. Representation matters, and
we're. Here to talk about it.
Cheers, queers. What's on the big gay agenda
today? Fiora today is book club.
I always forget to celebrate. In today's episode, we will be
discussing The Lesbianist Guide to Catholic School by Sonora
Reyes. If you haven't read this book
and don't want to be spoiled, that's OK.
In the beginning of the episode, we will be giving our spoiler
free review, so feel free to stick around for that portion.
And if you're intrigued, go grab a crappie and read it.
Then come back, because afterwards we will be spoiling
the book and giving. But don't worry, we'll like give
the spoiler warning when we get there.
So just smear. Did she say crappie?
Who knows what I said. It's been a long day.
It's a long day coming, yes. So we have a shout out to do for
this episode because we were not in charge of picking this book
club. We picked which month it was in,
but we actually got an anonymous e-mail asking us to cover this
book and through my detective skills.
I Their name is Charlie. Thank you, CC.
At you, Yes. Thank you so much for giving us
this recommendation. It was a great book, and
sometimes we may not choose books that you want us to cover
that we like, really need to read.
So it's always great to get recommendations, yeah.
So if you have a recommendation, let us know.
Leave it in the comment. E-mail us anonymously.
Whatever you want to do, don't don't be anonymous though.
Just just sign your name. You know, I, Charlie and I,
emailed back and forth a little bit.
Anyway, we we've read our Big Gay Book Club book the month
before the episode releases. No, we read.
We read. OK, so there's the thing.
There's the word read of multiple times here, but it's
pronounced differently and that's why English is.
Stupid English is really fucking stupid.
OK, that's why I paused. I was like, which read is it?
And I didn't read the full sentence.
Then I showed up. OK, anyway, we read our Big Gay
Book Club book the month before the episode releases and discuss
it in our Discord channel where we read.
Yes, for example, we read this book during the month of March.
Join our Discord to participate in future book clubs.
We'll even include your discussion points when we film
the episode and totally give you the credit because you deserve
all of it. Also join the Discord to connect
with other queers and just have fun and talk about all the
queerness. We can just talk about being
queer in general, just in general.
And there's a lot of people in there who just love books.
So, like, if you just want to talk about books, period, like,
that's probably our most active channel, people talking about
books. So yeah, let us know.
And 'cause we're always looking for more Rex to read outside of
the podcast, so, like, yeah, come join us.
Yeah, and if you're watching this podcast, be sure to
subscribe to the channel. Give this video a like.
Leave a comment below and if you're just listening, make sure
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Download the episode or share do all the things because that
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And apart from our episodes, go check out our merch on big
gayenergypod.com My camera is going up.
What? Are you doing with your?
Hands. No, I don't know.
I'm being Theora. OK.
I'm trying to remember. I'm trying not to read the
scripted part Thea I was in the zone.
I'm sorry. OK, go to our Patreon where you
can get full reaction videos, exclusive content, and be in
charge of what we cover next. Like there's so much going on in
Patreon and you need to go check it out because any reaction
videos that we do will be full length over there.
If you have a book club and you wanted to get us immediately, it
can be pushed up in our book club.
That's that's a new perk that I just thought of right now.
Patreon, Patreon, you have all the power, All of it.
Literally. OK, Nope.
Just Yep. Lastly, stay connected with us
on all social media platforms by following at Big Gay Energy Pod
and just share us and like us. I'm going to read the last
sentence so I we can get on with it.
Your interactions be the world to us, and these actions
contribute to our ongoing celebration of queer media and
advocacy for better representation.
Yes. So we'll work on that later.
Yes, but bottom line, come join us for Virtual Book Club on in
Discord. It's pretty chill.
Like we read it and talk about it a month before we film.
We announce it on social media on the 1st of the month in
Discord and on social media, like what the book is going to
be. So you have time to get a copy
and check it out. But really like you can read at
your own pace and jump in there at any time.
We have a thread dedicated to the book so you can just jump in
at any time and like give your thoughts if like you know that
month is not good for you or whatever.
But we like hearing about what other people think about books,
because, you know, that gives a greater discussion of the queer
media and that is why we are here so.
And that just shows you how much better theor is at speaking.
I wrote that intro very roughly and before Caitlin read it, as
my brain spit that stuff out. So thank you, Caitlin.
Yay. Speaking of good queer
representation and good queer media, let's jump into our book
club book this month, which was The Lesbian's Guide to Catholic
School. So synopsis of the book.
Caitlin, would you like to tell the good people at home what
this was about? In a non spoilery way?
I hope it's not. Spoilery 'cause this is what was
on Google. Oh dear, you always go to my
Google. Well, yeah, I'm not creative,
that's true. What did Google say?
Google says that this book is about 16 year old Yamulet
Flores. I'm sure I'm saying that very
Americanly prefers to be known for her killer eyeliner, not for
being one of the only Mexican kids at her new, mostly white,
very rich Catholic school. But at least here, no one knows
she's gay, and Yami intends to keep it that way.
After being outed by her crush and ex best friend before
transferring to Slate and Catholic, Yami has new
priorities. Keep her brother out of trouble,
make her mom proud, and most importantly, don't fall in love.
Granted, she's never been great at any of those things, but
that's a problem for future Yami.
The thing is, it's hard to fake being straight when Beau, the
only openly queer girl at school, is so annoyingly perfect
and smart and talented and cute. So cute.
Either way, Yami isn't going to make the same mistake again.
If word got back to her mom, she could face a lot worse than
rejection, so she'll have to start asking WWSGD What would a
straight girl do? This sounds like the author
wrote it. It's very much in their voice.
I'm pretty sure it's the. Back of the book.
It's just the back of the. Book.
There we go. I got it from somewhere, but it
was from Google. OK, so that was the what the
back of the book slash Google says the book is about.
I'm good at reading stuff that's scripted, you know.
That is why we write outlines. So that's what we have things to
say. OK now host of the podcast in
three words explain what you your review of the book or how
you describe the book for me. My spoiler for your review is
Repression Hurts Everyone, I'm. Trying to say representation.
That would not be the good one. Repression.
Repression is repression, not repression.
Representation loves. Everybody elevates everyone
there. That's the word.
All right. So mine is strength from within.
And then I mine, mine took. Mine took a bit of a a personal
note, vicariously healing and then in parentheses.
My childhood, I felt like this was super, like I followed
along. Aside from going to Catholic
school, I did not. But I did grow up Catholic.
So like the book followed along my like high school path, I
guess. So healing your inner child.
I did go to Catholic school. What a wild time.
OK, so now that we've reviewed it, last thing we're gonna do is
give our rating for How much big gay energy did this book Have?
So this is my. Last time we're doing this part
because it flips now. After that anyway.
It does, so I'm printing it here.
So I would say this book has so much big gay energy that there
isn't room for lesbian Jesus 'cause you gotta leave room.
Have you ever heard that The Catholic?
Thing leave room for. Jesus.
There isn't room for lesbian Jesus.
It's so gay. This book has so much big gay
energy that it makes you feel seen.
I can't. Compete with any of those I
don't have. Like I I agree so much with the
there's so much there isn't room for lesbian Jesus.
I think that just encapsulates, encapsulates maybe the the whole
thing. I think that's.
Perfect. I got it.
There's so much.
They get energy. That lesbian Jesus raised in 3
minutes and not three days. Hydrate for that.
I forgot my water. I don't have water either.
Oh my God, you guys are the worst, OK?
All right, now I'm just kidding. All right, everyone.
So that was our spoiler for your review of the book.
If you're intrigued, pause this, go read it, and then come back.
Now we're going to dive into all the spoilers of the things that
we like and want to talk about from this book.
So the first thing I want to talk about is basically the
opening of the book and this theme that I noticed throughout
So I my, I don't know, just my webcam.
Anyway, something I really enjoyed about the book 'cause it
was clearly very well written. Like Sonora clearly is a very
good writer. Like, so good that I am not of
the age demographic that this book is written for.
And usually, like, I struggle reading YA now because it's
just, I don't relate to it. It's I'm not of the demographic,
I'm older in my life now. But the way it was written, it
was written very like, witty, cleverly, like a good command of
just like figurative language, not just like literal language.
So, like for me, it was mentally engaging despite being about
like a young a person in high school, 'cause I struggle with
that media a lot. I just was like, I don't.
Care about this? But OK, something that really
grasped me on like the very first page was the shattered
mirror, which is used as a metaphor throughout the book
really. And I just love the way it opens
with this really powerful imagery.
Cause like, without even reading this, I didn't read the
synopsis, I just jumped into the book.
And just by having this, I knew what the book was gonna be
about. Like just by having this 'cause
I was like, oh, we're using, we're using imagery.
All right, let's do it. Let's go.
So usually in media, a mirror is used to represent like a
character's like inner self, like the self that they hide
from the world. So it started with Yami, who's
the point of view, character, and a shattered mirror.
So to me that told me that the main character, Yami, is
fracturing their personality 'cause that's usually what that
means, and there's a loss of control of this person over
their life. And Yami says something in her
inner monologue about this, where she says I like this new
reflection better, like talking about her reflection of the
shattered mirror. It's cracked enough that I'm
hardly recognizable, splintered in all the right places.
I did that. And so to me, that set the tone
for, like, what this book was gonna be about.
It's about Yami being on this journey of self discovery and
reflection, and she's in a place where she feels like she's
losing control of who she is and perhaps going through some kind
of metamorphosis. On page 25, she also says
something where she says inner monologue.
There's something unsettling about seeing your whole
refraction looking back at you, and I love that cause like,
yeah, there's something weird about like seeing yourself like
fully and like confronting who you are in all of that sense.
And for Yami, that's not just external.
It's very much an internal, like coming, coming of who who am I?
Kind of like process. And that can be really, really
hard to do, like in a very, in a wholly truthful way, especially
for somebody so young. So like again, I like that.
Like the way the author used this, like imagery of a of a
mirror and like reflections shattered and whole to kind of
show like how Yami feels about herself.
And I just thought that was really powerful.
And I I love that. And it keeps the mirrors keep
coming throughout the book. And after the third act of the
book, the the author comes back to this whole mirror image with,
after Caesar was hospitalized, Yami's brother, it's on page 317
where Yami says, I think internally I want to take
punching the mirror back the first time just so I can do it
now. And then in italicize it says
you should have been there, 'cause, like she's at this point
is like really guilty over the fact that she wasn't there for
her brother and she didn't. She was wrapped up in herself
and didn't fully see what was going on with him.
But also because her mom kept saying you should have been
there, which was. Wrong.
Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.
But anyway, to me, this was like a moment of major reflection for
Yami. Like in the third act where she
she's bringing back the the whole shattering of the mirror
thing because she's, she's thinking back on her choices,
how she's wrapped up in her own head, her own trauma, so much
that, like, she missed all the signs of, like, what was going
on with Caesar, Like, 'cause he clearly wasn't OK from, like the
beginning of the book. Like, if you go back and read
it, you're like, yeah, all the signs are kind of there.
But Yami's still, like, wrapped up in Yami and and confronting
her inner self that she doesn't see, like, what's going on in
front of her. And so I love that in this major
moment of like spiraling that she has, that she thinks of
smashing the mirror all over again, 'cause she's like, I it's
a it's like, wow, like I was trying to like go on this
journey for like 2/3 of the book to figure out who I am and
figure out my shit. And what was it all for?
Like, you know, I just, it was very powerful.
And I just I love the way this book was written in summary.
I want to go back quickly to when you said that she smashed
the mirror to feel in control. And I think part of it is that
she needs to feel control because she can't control who
she's attracted to. And I mean, in her situation,
she doesn't want to be gay, obviously.
Like, this isn't something you choose.
You have to choose to be OK with it.
But there's so much in her life that is unknown, and she can't
control people's reactions to it.
She can't control, she can't control the people she's around
either. And I feel very connected with
her in the fact that you just want something to be because of
you. Yeah, for sure.
And and like, that's why I like, it really struck me like the the
shattered mirror right in the beginning, 'cause I'm like,
here's a child who feels out of control with their life.
Like, that was the intriguing point for me.
Like, well, why does this child feel out of control?
And yeah, like you said, Caitlin, it's all these external
factors that are at odds with who she's starting to come to
terms with, like who she is. And so it just it was it very
much just it was very powerful imagery and really, like really
just tells you what the book is about.
And I just loved it a lot. I also have a comment about her
brother. You can.
I clocked it right away in that conversation when he said that
to something about Eileen might have the quote later, but that
life's not what if there is no tomorrow or something like that?
You could tell right away and I I thought it was gonna be even
darker. Luckily, he's still with us and
I'm really glad that that ended like that.
We we've already know gays in this book.
Yeah, gays were harmed but not ended in the making of this
book. Yeah, I don't know where this
fits, but Speaking of harmed, those people like driving the
truck off the road to try and pretend to hit run them over,
What the? Hell, Oh my God, that was so
fucked. I like those are children also.
Yeah, doing that. It's so messed up.
How does? Anyone raise to think that
that's OK? I'm sure they were good
Christians at heart or some shit.
There's no, there's no love like Christian hate, right?
That's the same. I have not heard that saying,
but I'm sure it is one. I was also raised Catholic, so
it's OK Got some religious drama.
Yeah, that was absolutely disgusting for a number of
reasons for the the racism of it all that was there.
And yeah, and we mentioned, I mentioned this off screen to
Caitlin. But like the intersectionality
of this book is the other thing that I really like about it, the
fact that they are Mexican American and there have that
experience and that was very prominent in the book and I
think I have a section on that later but.
There's a lot of representation that matters.
Exactly. Yeah.
OK, so the you mentioned in the synopsis about Yami and her best
friend now ex best friend, that's like the catalyst for the
beginning of her kind of spiraling.
So what is your take on Bianca and Yami's relationship?
Bianca's a bitch, but I I really wanted more from the storyline
overall. I I had high hopes, but I think
it's better the way it happened. So I'm actually very proud of
Yami because she fully did not let Bianca back in her life.
There was a couple times where she tried, like Bianca tried to
come back into Yami's life and the way she did it was so
backhanded. So, I mean, everyone here
probably should have read the book if you're listening to
this, but in case you didn't, basically Bianca got so weird
and started hating Yami when Yami actually told her that she
was gay. And so now they no longer speak.
And she she's like the typical. Catholic Oh, that's wrong.
You should not be. You should be with a man that
mentality. And from the the very beginning,
I was like, well, she's closeted, right?
So we're gonna get this like whole thing where she's like,
oh, really? I just had feelings for you too.
And I didn't know how to reciprocate them.
We did not. It's.
I believe that relationship ends with Yami being like, no bye
bitch, you're out of my life. Not literally, but in the sense
I even though I think she's closeted and that was like the
catalyst for this, I it still doesn't mean that Yami has to
let her back in because I feel like with special with stories
like that, it's always on the other person to make them feel
like it's OK and accept them. But Yami is taking control back
by being able to show, not show, to choose who is in her life.
And I'm just very proud of Yami for like the ending.
Cause Bianca isn't the only person who's no longer in her
life, but we will get into that in a little bit.
Bianca also made Yami feel small, like she wasn't even a
person, and that is a terrible quality.
In a friend. On page 73 it says it all makes
sense now, she said. This is what Bianca is saying.
Oh no, I'm sorry, it is not. This is an internal monologue,
so Yami is thinking it all makes sense now, she said.
She told me it creeped her out, that if only she had known, she
would have avoided all of it, all of me.
As if she wouldn't have cried on my shoulder when her parents got
divorced or let me cry on hers when my dad got deported.
As if none of it mattered. Because I'm gay.
And I think this is everybody's worst fear when they're queer
and they're afraid to tell their best friends.
They're like, I don't want her to be weirded out by the
friendly things we've done and Bianca.
The way Bianca reacted made her feel so unsafe that even seeing
her at work, she quits. And her flight response was so
real in that moment. And I feel like it's relatable
because if someone makes you feel that scared and
uncomfortable, obviously you don't want to be there.
And so much that she quit a job that she needed because she
needed to pay her tuition. I would like to piggyback off of
something you said Caitlin, because I I also was reading
Bianca. I don't know.
I've read their relationship differently.
I was reading. I definitely read Bianca as
closeted and projecting all of her internalized homophobia onto
Bianca onto Yami. Sorry, because there's a scene
where Yami comes to Bianca's house and is talking to her like
after all of the fuckery happened.
And Yami notes that, oh, Bianca's still wearing the
friendship bracelet. So, like, to me it showed that,
like, Bianca's not over Yami in a way.
She's still like, holding on to her.
And it's not until, like, Bianca looks back to like the other
people in the house that she starts like performing and doing
the like homophobic stuff. So to me, it seems like she's
one of those people who's closeted and is going to stay
closeted because the, like you said, part of this is, part of
being queer is is learning to accept your queerness.
And like to me, she strikes me as the character that's not
going to accept it, that is too burdened by like societal
expectations and like how other people want her to behave and
she's afraid and is just a coward that's not gonna ever,
like, win that battle. So to me, that's kind of like
how I was reading Bianca. So like when Bianca was like
reaching out to Yami again later, like it almost it felt
like, like, I don't know, maybe she was she was trying to heal
herself somehow. But like to your point, like
Yami owes her nothing. So, like we didn't get that
story line where they were like, oh, they figure their shit out
together. Like Yami's just like, no, let's
cut out the toxicity and move on.
And that's totally fine. So, like, I didn't fully read
Bianca as like a bitch, per SE. It was just like this was
somebody who is in the same situation and is responding to
it in a completely different way that like, does happen,
unfortunately, like and the way Yami handled herself, like, was
totally within her rights to to do that.
And yeah, it it's just, it's not like the storyline.
I I was expecting what you were expecting.
So, like, it was refreshing to read the story that went in a
different direction in terms of like their friendship and really
their relationship wasn't the focus.
It was the catalyst for really Yami's journey that she goes on
like it's the shattering of the mirror.
And like, it forces Yami to really reflect and then figure
out who she is. Because like a lot of the book
is Yami like trying to hide who she is, but then ultimately
comes to accept it by like seeing other people who live
their truth and like, figuring her stuff out.
So yeah, I think a lot of Bianca was just projection like so.
This is very reminiscent of Ben and Charlie, yes.
Oh, my God. Yeah.
This is Ben from Heart Stopper 100%.
Yeah. This is a closet case that was
gonna stay in the closet. Like, yeah, absolutely.
That's why I was like, I don't think she's a bitch.
I think this is just all projection and this is a scared
child. Yeah, but just like handle
things in like kind of a bitchy way.
I mean, people do this though, like I'm not thinking it's good
or bad, like it's not great, but like, I get why she's doing it.
Like I can. It's like see the character's
point of view. Cause like that was my take on
the character, like it's a scared child.
At the very least she is following others opinions
without forming any her own. Correct.
Or she just feels like that's safer and 'cause like the way
she like says all those things to Yami where she was like,
well, like now I'm grossed out with all of our memories and
stuff that sounds like other people's thoughts getting into
her head. And she's just like performing
the way other people want her to perform.
Because like, I don't know that that's what I just, I feel like
she's brainwashed and is just going because it's safe and it's
easier to hide rather than the like be out and proud kind of
thing, which is so Yami's the stronger character, really.
It's just that she's like a foil in a way to be like, that could
have been you if you stayed closeted, basically, and had to
perform as a closeted person with like a lot of internalized
homophobia and self hatred. Yeah, So it's gonna be a shitty
life for her, so. Yeah, I don't see things getting
until she can be confident on her own, if ever.
Some people don't. Some people never get there
though, and like that's the tragedy of it.
That was like Ben and heart stopper.
Like Ben will never get there and neither will Bianca.
I don't think so. That's really sad.
Yeah. Well, now you really just.
Humanized her. You're welcome.
She's just a person. OK, so a friendship that I do
like is Yami and Bo. Bo is so cool, OK?
We first meet Beau and I believe they're talking about abortion
and debating it in class, 'cause that's what they chose to debate
on. Yeah, well, they didn't choose.
The teacher was like let. Me take a.
Controversial topic? Yeah.
Really, it's the teacher's fault.
It is. But basically, Beau was being a
bad ass. And then it gave Yami a little
confidence to say what was on her mind as well.
And so just the whole beginning it was they were perfect for
each other. They Yami needed someone like Bo
in her life to show her it's OK to be who you are.
Because Bo was. Representation matters.
In case we didn't say it already, by seeing Bo just fully
being themself out in public like at the beginning, Yami
could would never. She's literally trying to hide
herself and one of my favorite things that she says in this
school. Hold on, let me get to the
quote. This time I'll be stealthy, gay
like Kristen Stewart. And it just made me laugh.
Kristen Stewart was not. Stealthy.
Let's be honest. Let's be honest.
I did not know that Kristen
Stewart was gay. That's 'cause you're bad at
subtext, yes. Also terrible gaydar.
That's another That's 'cause you're bad at subtext, that's.
OK. We're working on it.
We're working on it's. It's a work progress has gotten
better. Yes, we're still not there
still. Working on it.
Anyway, so that was really cool. And I one of my favorite things
about Yami and this story is like such a fool, like blurting
out I'm straight and she gave Annex and she doesn't do it just
once. She does it multiple times and I
love that this is like the same way she comes out to multiple
people, like, but I'm gay. Like, she just blurts it now.
And in some ways that's probably a better way to do it.
Just get it out and over with, get it out, rip the Band-Aid
off. But one of the things that in
the whole storyline for them is that Yami gets drunk at a party
and she finally is not thinking and she starts texting people
and coming out. Do it on your own time.
Don't do, don't drink alcohol, friends.
If you need to drink alcohol, you are not ready.
Salmon. Juan, I was just thinking of
that. OK, they.
Were ready. They're just dumb.
How did they not die, GAIL? That that's a gap reference, by
the way. Go check out those discussion
episodes. I believe that discussion and
episode for #8. Yeah it would be 8 anyway.
So what in her coming out tour which she only texts?
For the tour, that's a good way to put it.
It's a drunk, coming out tour. That would be a good, right?
Good. Tour name That's one era Taylor.
Swift next era Drunk coming out. That would be amazing.
Sold out immediately. I mean either, no.
Anyway, it'll be any. Era.
Let's be real. Anyway, back to Yami.
Back to Yami's tour. So she texts her dad that she's
gay and I believe she tells him not to tell her mom 'cause that,
but that's a whole nother side with Bo.
She calls Bo luckily or not so luckily Bo does not answer.
So Yami's leaving this long ass voicemail and then basically
telling her that she's gay and she likes her.
I believe she says she likes her, right?
Probably I don't. Remember the exact.
I don't remember this exact word.
That's. The gist of it.
But yeah, and so that's how she comes out to Bo.
But for some reason, Bo doesn't get notifications about
voicemails and did not listen to Yami's voicemail.
But I really, really wish you heard it because it would have
gotten us closer to the end sooner.
Not that I wanted the book to end, I just wanted them to go.
It was a super slow burp. It was.
But Yami also needed to figure herself out as well.
Like she needed to be comfortable in her own skin and
in the mirror, if you would say before.
Yeah, she needed to look at her full refraction and be OK with
that. And, like, it just took her a
long time. And that's like realistic.
It does take a while, like, especially in her environment,
Like, that's part of it. So, like, you brought up, like
with Beau and Yami, the beginning was like the debate,
right? And so to like see somebody like
Beau being so like unabashedly themselves in Catholic school,
like, it's not just that Beau is being like herself.
It's like in the environment that, like, hate somebody like
Bo. You know everything about her,
like the the fact that she's queer, the fact that she's like
a leftist, A feminist, all the stuff that Catholic school is
trying to suppress and like, get you not to be.
Like, she's the antithesis of Catholic school, basically.
So like, there's an insane amount of confidence and bravery
that goes into Bo being who she is in the environment they're
stuck in. So I think all of that is what
really helps Yami the most. Like on her own personal journey
of acceptance, like it is really hard.
But then she goes home and she has the threat of being at home
with like a possibly homophobic parent.
And so like she can't ever escape.
Like the external factors that are saying don't be yourself.
Like, even though she sees somebody like, both.
So like, and I think that's part of like, the slow burn with the
relationship and Yami coming to an acceptance.
It's like external forces that Yami can't can't escape, like,
and she's actively trying to. That's why she's trying to save
up all this money. She's like, I need to get into a
safe environment. I don't feel safe to even
entertain being myself, you know, 'cause like if you look at
Bo's environment, Bo goes home and Bo is in a loving
environment. So like, Bo can do whatever the
hell she wants at school, 'cause then she can escape to a safe
place after that. Where's Yami?
Like is not safe no matter what. So like, I think that's that's
part of why it takes Yami much, much longer than Bo, yes.
That that is fair. Side note, I love Bo's parents.
At least the dad. They're cute.
They they try so hard. Yeah, just very accepting,
giving Yami the family that she needs in this time.
I have many things to say about Bo's family, but yes.
Yes, we'll, we'll get there. So I, on the other hand, would
not be surprised if Bo actually did listen to the voicemail
'cause if I had gotten a voicemail and then somebody told
me not to listen to it, boy, would I listen to it and then
not just just tell them I never did like.
I you would you would act out later when Bo is trying to
listen to it and Yami's trying to grab the phone away from Bo,
'cause that did happen later and she like, yeah.
Well, and I might. Go along with that who?
Yeah, yeah. Listen, I I am too nosy to like
I I've done. I've done that before.
People tell me not to like, did you.
I said I didn't read things when I absolutely did absolutely read
them, and then said I didn't read them or listen to it or or
whatever so that they could tell me at a different point.
But I've absolutely done this exact thing before, so I would
not be. That would eat away at my
conscience too much. Like I'd be like, oh, I lied to
them about this. And then that's all I would
think about when I'm with them or thinking about them.
So I could never do that. Caitlyn's pure at heart.
I try. I just.
Like knowing things. Not pure enough for Catholic
school though. Sorry, that was good.
Good one? Well, I mean, in some cases I
am, in others not so much. But yeah, that easily could have
been the plot line, it just it didn't read like that from Bo's
point of view. No, I feel like both wouldn't
have like been trying to and then have Yami wrestle out of.
Right. That seemed like to me Red.
Like Bo did not listen to that message.
Because if really Bo could have been like if she did listen to
it be like, OK fine, I won't listen to it knowing what's in
it. Like maybe Yami's just not
ready, but no, like this one. She's like, why did you wrestle
this out of my hand? Right.
I was like, that was a weird reaction.
I would, yeah. If someone did, that would be
like what was in that message. Right, exactly.
I don't know. That's just that's just my
interpretation, I think. I don't know.
It doesn't matter either way. All right, so the moral story
is, don't send Cole messages if you don't want Cole to read
them. Cole's going to read them
anyway. Probably.
Unless you can delete it before I can get there.
Caitlin, if anyone could do it, it's you.
All right, I have no transition into this.
So other theme that I liked in the book was, again, one of the
aspects I really enjoyed was the intersectionality of the book.
And so one of the themes that kept cropping up with both Yami
and Bo was feeling disconnected from cultural roots.
So I'm gonna compare and contrast Yami and Bo for this
'cause I thought their perspectives on this was
interesting and their like life experiences in this aspect was
really interesting. So with Yami, basically she's
like a first generation. I think American is kind of how
you would categorize Yami, like her parents are Mexican
immigrants and then she's, you know, now an American, Mexican
American basically. So she's like the first
generation to be get the American label, I guess put it
that way. And so from her, the reason she
got here to America is because her family willingly immigrated
to seek a quote, better life. So that's going to distinguish
Beau's journey a little bit. In that journey we get the
father who's come, who comes up multiple times throughout this
book and he basically was deported back to like quote the
old country because of racism basically.
And he like the way from from Yami's point of view, at least
towards the in the first like 2/3 of the book, her dad was
like her biggest connection to her like Mexican slash
indigenous heritage. So because her father is gone, I
mean she's still like face times and stuff, but it's not the same
thing as having your parent physically there, you know.
So she feels this loss since her mom is like from her
perspective, mom is too busy because mom is making money to
keep everybody alive. It's not mom's fault.
So mom is quote too busy to connect with their cultural like
roots on like a regular basis. And so she feels this like.
Heritage of hers, it's like constantly slipping away because
they're not practicing like their their culture consistently
from Yami's point of view kind of in the beginning so but it
despite like the like not having her dad there to constantly like
bring culture into the house. Yami is really fortunate to live
in a part of town that is ethnically homogeneous.
So the way we were shown that is through like Don Violetta,
right, that that the woman that keeps coming up.
And the reason I think why that that is in there is because it's
showing that like Yami lives in a community of like other
Mexican immigrants basically. And so because she's in that,
like epicenter of her culture, like the cultural practices are
still there and she is practicing them.
She just doesn't realize she's doing it.
So the fact that like when Don Violeta is like grieving the
loss of her husband, the whole community keeps her going.
Like there's there's constantly like little mentions of like
this family brought over food or this family is watching over
her. And that's a very cultural thing
like to watch out for other members of your like roots
basically it's like a big family, right.
And so like she is connected to her, her culture, but it's a the
culture that's now implanted in America.
And like I relate to that 'cause I I'm Italian American, I grew
up in an Italian, American, like homogeneous area of New York
where I used to live. So it's very much like that.
It's like you're you're still in the culture, but you're in like
the American version of the culture.
So like, which which is gonna be like very different when you go
to bow. So like really like Yami is
still part of her culture. It's just a new version of that,
basically. So if you contrast that with
Beau, Beau was adopted, right? So Beau immigrated without her
consent, basically, which like contrast Yami, whose family
willingly came here. So she was.
She's brought up in a culture like America.
She's not connected with any of this.
And so, like, her parents feel this guilt, like love them.
I love this perspective from Beau.
It was so fantastic. Where Beau's like I feel like
they're trying to like immerse me in in my culture, but they
don't know anything about it. So it's this very like
disjointed way I'm being exposed.
That doesn't mean anything versus like Yami who lives like
amongst her own people kind of in a way.
And so is like so much in her own culture, she doesn't realize
she's in it. So Bo Bo does not live in an
ethnically, oh, I guess she kind of maybe does live in an
ethnically homogeneous area. She lives in the rich white
people part of town, which is not ethnically homogeneous.
It's just skin tone homogeneous. So it's like this hyper
individualistic, like society is what she lives in where it's
like my castle, my rules, fuck everybody else.
Like that's basically the area that she lives in.
So like people don't take care of each other as you take care
of the people in your own household.
So just her parents is kind of all she has.
So for Bo, it's really like, really sad that, like, the only
time that she ever feels like she can authentically connect
with her own cultural roots is when she goes to Chinese
restaurants, 'cause, like, that's that is a there her, her
heritage is there in a, in a, like, a very, like, authentic
way by the people who own the restaurant and things like that.
So like, that's the only time she ever, like, feels connected
and, like, learns about it, which is like Yan Yi won point
makes fun of her for, like, knowing so much about fish.
And then she's like, yeah, because I I learned about all
the fish at the restaurant and, like, I feel connected to China
because of this. So one of the aspects I love
about their friendship is that because Bo has no like epicenter
for her heritage other than restaurants.
Basically she lives vicariously through Yami and Yami's
connection to her culture. Cause Yami at one point takes
her to like, oh God, I forgot what it was like a performance
art thing that was like everyone was called I I apologize.
It was some dance. Right performance thing.
And it was like a very like Mexican, I think not indigenous
with a Mexican performance. And so it was just Yami being
like seamlessly like fitting into her own culture and like
showing Bo like this is what my culture is like.
And Bo just had this like a beautiful experience of doing
that and was like wow, I really wish I could do that with like
my Chinese like culture as well. But it's like harder cause like,
I mean, Bo, if you move out to San Francisco, you can't find
that out here, 'cause like there's it.
It's an ethnic, there's ethnically homogeneous areas and
there's a lot of like we do, a lot of like.
You have all the nationality you.
Are all of the world. In one city.
Yeah, so, like, you can you can get that experience.
But I love it. Like sorry, go ahead.
No, I just wanted to say that I felt so bad for Beau in that
moment, 'cause she was so jealous of Yami, seeing how
comfortable she is with her culture and connecting with it,
and how like, her parents were the only white people at that
event. Yeah, and it just really showed.
Her what? She needed for herself to
connect with her culture. Yeah, that.
And I love that This gives Beau the courage to tell her parents
how she feels because like, that's awkward and weird, right?
To, like, have that kind of conversation with your parents
who are like, they're trying, but it's like, they're wrong.
Stop trying. She's like, you need to stop
doing this. So yeah, yeah.
So it's basically like she her sentiment is like, she feels
like she's in a household with Chinese artifacts that hold no
personal connection to her. And she so she's like, I get
what you're trying to do, but, like, this actually isn't
helping me. So I love that she, like, had
that conversation with them. I thought that was really
important. And I love that that was
depicted in the book. So I like the contrast between
the two when it came to their culture and how they felt
connected and disconnected from it.
It's also really telling that Yami was able to figure that out
just by seeing all the decorations in the house.
Be like is Bo OK with this? Because it is.
It's a very superficial way to engage with your culture.
Like, I feel like they could have done better with taking Bo
to events, engaging with people who are from China and making
sure that she understood where she came from, rather than just
having Chinese decorations in the house, 'cause that doesn't
teach you shit. Yeah, and and it goes to show
you that, like when you're ignorant of something you can do
harm, 'cause like, I mean, why would they know any of that?
Like that was not her parents experience whatsoever so.
Like they did. You see the goodness in that
that they tried to begin with. It was just not the right
approach. Right.
It wasn't what Bo actually needed.
So like, unfortunately, like, they can't see that.
So like, it had to come from Bo to be like, this isn't what I
need. So as a child to say that to
your adopted parents who, like, try to give you the world,
that's hard to do. And again, Bo was somebody who
is very courageous. So, like, she did get there, you
know? But yeah, that was, that was a
big maturity moment that was really great with Bo.
I really liked it a lot. And she also had Yami come with
her in the beginning, so So that also showed Yami that someone
cares that much about her to have her be there for Bo.
Like she was her rock in a way. So it was just that someone was
appreciating her and needing her.
Where it was a give and take relationship, where a lot of
Bo's not Bo Yami's relationship with her family was take like
she was trying to take care of everybody.
And I will talk more about that later because it's a huge thing.
But I guess the word is symbiotic.
I believe the relationship between Yami and Bo.
And yeah, they understood each other in a way that other people
couldn't understand them. Yeah.
Precisely. And I think them both being like
women of color, like, definitely had a lot to do with that.
For sure. And them not being the same
ethnicity, they were able to teach each other about their
own. I mean, Beau still learn about
her culture herself, but I think it's really cool and interesting
that Beau wasn't Mexican. So they were They understood
each other, but they could still learn together.
Yeah, no, I definitely love that so, so much.
That's a really good point. Was it the Bailey Folklorico?
Yes. Probably, yeah.
OK. I found.
Yeah, it was basically like a Mexican folk dance.
Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I couldn't remember if it was singing or just dancing, so
that's why I didn't guess. It's it's a dance of Mexican
pride. It's about the music, the colors
and the dance, according to the book.
Cool. All right, so one aspect of the
book that I really liked too, or there's a scene where I think it
was Bo. Was it?
No, it was a yami. Riami basically is forced to do
the Pledge of Allegiance, and it's on page 33.
And I think in her, in her monologue, she says I stand, but
I don't say the words. It's the closest thing to
protesting I can do without causing a scene.
And in that moment, she recounts when her father was deported and
how she stopped doing the pledge.
After that quote, liberty and justice for all never applied to
people like us. So she, like protest, didn't
really do the Pledge of Allegiance, even though if
you're not from America, they force us to do this 'cause we're
authoritarian even though they say we're not.
So they literally force children to say the Pledge of Allegiance,
which is so weird. So, question for all of you, did
you ever stop doing, quote or quote, protest the Pledge of
Allegiance like Yami did? So I wanna say something about
this. IA 100% did like protest.
Like I would just, I would stand up because I also didn't want to
like cause a scene or like have people say stuff about it.
But like in my own own way, like I would just refuse to say God
in the pride of allegiance. Like I just would not do that.
I would say some of the other stuff half the time.
Other times I would just either 'cause you're I.
Don't know. This was like, I don't know.
Middle school, I think. And I would just.
Then all I have. I I would just like Mao.
Like you learn like watermelon is supposed to be like what
looks like you're saying words. So I would say stuff like that
and or like Mao that and I just yeah, so IA 100% protested.
Did you Caitlin? I did not, mostly because all of
it's just words to me. It's just words that you're
saying, like it doesn't mean anything in my brain.
In in another episode, I talked about how I have struggled with
history because it just seems like stories and not like
something that actually happened.
Yeah, they're just words that I was forced to say it.
I don't think anything of them. It doesn't mean anything to me,
but also so I went to Catholic school, we had to say a prayer
and then we went into the Pledge of Allegiance.
So in my because I've been was doing that since preschool,
preschool to 4th grade and some of 5th grade, they both get
combined in my head. So I forget if it's our father,
yeah it goes. So if you start our father, it
will go into the Pledge of Allegiance for me as I say it,
because we said our father 1st and then we said the Pledge of
Allegiance. So so did it like did you
finish? The one.
No.
Did it? No.
It's like, how far did you get? And then so is our Father who
are. Thank you, our Father who art in
heaven. Hallowed be thy name.
Like you can come down one nation under God.
So it goes from that. I just too.
I was right into it. God, I love how you.
Kept the God pardon from the Pledge of Allegiance.
I think that's what combined them in the in the brain and but
like as a child that's I've just grown up with thinking like that
so another one and I just wanted to add that antidote because
also again I'm a terrible Catholic kid because I always
failed religion. That's the only thing.
That's the only test I ever failed was the first Test of
religion every single year. Was it the same test?
No. It was just until they had to
start singing. Then I understood more because I
don't pay attention unless I get to sing, apparently.
But also I I got really good at sitting there and doing nothing
because I am also really good at watching TV in my head, 'cause
that's how I got through church. I would My favorite day for this
is a tangent. My favorite day for church was
Palm Sunday and all I would do is take everybody's palm leaves
that was in my family and just make those crosses and that's
all I and then I would rip them into smaller and smaller pieces.
Yeah, I wanted to keep ripping them.
I had crosses that were like this big because it was just
like I had broken one or something, and I was just.
That's all I did. That was my favorite day 'cause
I actually got to do something. It's probably sacrilege just to
keep tearing them, but I I just. I went for the communion.
I wanted my wine and bread. I never wafer that that nobody
liked, but it was sweet to me. And the wine, I would take a
huge gulp of it. There wouldn't be much left
after me. Yeah, well 'cause they think
that giving wine to 2nd graders is fine in America.
Oh yeah, 'cause that's after First Communion.
Depending on which religion you are, cause some people do give
grape juice. Yeah, ours and after COVID,
nothing at all. Anyway.
To circle back to the pledge, I also I also protested that
because like when George W Bush got elected, because I was like,
wow, America is just elected a complete moron and I can't with
this place. Oh my God.
I also thought there's an age gap.
I forgot. I was like, when was Bush?
You remember Bush, the 1st president?
I. Remember, I was almost no first
president. I remember getting elected was
Bill Clinton 'cause I was born with Ronald Reagan, the person
who ruined America, And when I was born, he was president I.
Don't know who was president when I was born.
Probably Bill Clinton, OK. Clinton.
Anyway, so yeah, I I did the same thing.
I just stood and wouldn't say that 'cause they forced you to
stand. And then I just wouldn't say the
words at all. I didn't even pretend.
All right, next thing. So the next theme I I really
liked well, didn't like. Well, it sucks.
But a theme I noticed in the book was feeling, seen in a bad
way. So on page 29, I think this is
Yami's inner monologue. When this is when she first gets
to Slayton and she's kind of like looking around and
basically says there's already a bunch of kids in the courtyard.
So I'm playing the game in my head called quote, Spot, the
person of color. Total.
There's a like a dozen kids out here.
All right, sorry. Total.
There's like a dozen kids out of a couple hundred.
I hate how visible that makes me feel.
So. Yeah, it it's like the other.
That's why I like the the intersectionality of the book,
because it's from the point of view of somebody who literally
like quote is an outsider in this, in this school in more
ways than one. Not just being queer, but like
is visibly an outsider because Yami is Mexican American and
Yami already says darker skin. So like is going, she's going to
stick out and people are going to notice her as an outsider
just because of the color of her skin in this school that she's
in, which is predominantly like rich white kids with the, you
know, the exception of the dozen kids like she's saying.
So that tracks for experience in.
Catholic school as well. Yeah, 'cause, I mean, Catholic
schools in America are typically private schools, so you have to
pay money to go to them. So who has the money?
The rich white people have the money.
So that is why Yami sticks out. And Yami is there because her
brother got a full scholarship, 'cause he's a little brainiac.
And then she has to, like her and her mother have to pull
together to pay so she can go too, which strains her family.
But this scene being a scene in a negative way is something that
like, I really enjoy it and I enjoy it.
I think it's fucked up, but enjoyed seeing from like her
point of view because in America, wherever it was like,
racism doesn't exist. Yeah, if you, if you.
Say that from a white person's point of view, but if you look
at like actual people telling their stories, like, Nah, it's
kind of there. It's baked into the culture.
And she kind of gets that little bit of reinforcement when she
starts interacting with some of the kids.
So the first like group of girls she interacts with, I forget
they're all of their names and they don't matter.
The the worst one is Karen, and so she knows.
With Karen. Yeah, I don't think that name is
an accident. I think that that was a
purposeful choice by the by the writer.
So in her monologue, Karen's saying Race's shit about Bo and
Oh no, sorry. On page 34 and 35, this is me
writing. Sorry, I didn't use quotes for
all of these. So the Karen starts saying
Race's shit about Bo and Yami basically kind of, like keeps
quiet about it at first because she's in a position where she
feels unsafe, and she says this thing in her inner monologue
where it's easier if I pretend I didn't hear anything.
I don't have the energy. I want to say something, but I
don't want to get painted as that person.
I already stand out as it is. So this is this is happens at
the beginning of Yami's journey where she's trying to figure her
shit out. She's trying to gain her own
courage and feel comfortable in her skin.
And so it's like it's hard to feel.
What I'm gaining from her perspective is that it's hard to
already feel comfortable because she already sticks out.
And then she's also trying to hide the gay stuff and she's
like confront is with these people who are like openly being
racist about Beau. And like, Yami's in this
position where she can either like say something and then be
like, like, they'll hate her immediately and cast her as even
more of an outsider, or she can just like, ignore it, basically.
And she's like, I'm so like, I don't want to, like, put the
spotlight on me even more too, you know?
And like that's such a shitty position to like even be in
like, yeah, it's like, wow, it's shitty that Yami's not saying
anything but like, think about the position that she's in and
she's isolated, doesn't know anybody and like, unfortunately
is in this environment where, like, the white people outnumber
her. So like, it's really shitty
position that she's in. So it's like I understand why
she like thinks that and it's really fucked up and shitty
that. Like she has to think that, you
know? Yeah, and for every Karen,
there's a bunch more where that comes from.
So again, like, she doesn't have the energy to deal with Karen
because she doesn't have the energy to deal with all of them.
She doesn't want to keep repeating the same things over
and over. Like her name?
Yes, so. Speaking of her name, one of the
biggest I would say microaggression would be,
especially from Americans, 'cause that's my experience is
when people don't even try to say someone's name correctly.
So on page 46, Yami is annoyed that Karen calls her yummy.
Like, come on and like, of course, Karen doesn't even try.
So. Like, we pretend, not we.
I mean, people who do these microaggressions pretend like
names are so hard and they they can't figure it out, so they
don't even try. And they just say whatever they
think they want to call them. They're like, oh, your name is
that. I'm going to call you Bob
instead. Go ahead.
You know what I I I saw somewhere like as a call out to
all the white people who are like, oh this is so hard.
I could never do this. I forgot who it was.
But the person says if you can learn how to say Timothy
Chalamet correctly, you can say the name Yami.
Basically it was like the sentiment, like you can learn
this other person's name too. Like Chalamet is an insane name
to say. They say that in the book 'cause
I I've seen no. No, it's not in the book.
Like, it's outside of the book. Yeah, like that sentiment to
white people where it's like, 'cause if you can say this name,
I think you can say other names too.
It sounds like something that should be written in the book,
but yeah, I definitely seen that.
Like, white people have no problem trying to learn other
white people's names, and I hate that.
It's become common for people who immigrate to America to
change their names to something American or English so people
will say it right, Treat them better, like, especially on
resumes. I know that's like a huge thing.
You change your name so you're not immediately discriminated
against subconsciously, cause a lot of people they might not
even do it consciously. It's something that's ingrained
from when you're younger, like how the Pledge of Allegiance and
the prayer go together in my head.
It's just something you learn, so that's what you're used to.
No. And that's something that's been
going on for like a really long time, not just like the name.
So have you ever not noticed with authors, some authors will
put like first initial, middle initial, last name like JK
Rowling, RF Kwong. And it's like usually women
because people will take them more seriously if they don't
know they're a woman. So that's a way to like hide
your gender or or like you can do that too if you have like an
ethnic name you just like use the the abbreviation and then
like a last name and then people will take you more seriously
quote. And they've done studies with
this with like resumes where they like had a super ethnic
name versus like a bland white person's name and it's the same
resume and they would send it to the same company and like like I
don't know the the stats from the study but like statistically
the white person sounding name would get more call backs than
the other even though they had the exact same exact same resume
except for the name change. So yeah, unfortunately, like
there's a lot of power in names, and if like the name quote looks
weird, it like it makes you feel it makes that person seen in a
bad way, which is like the theme.
Unfortunately, it also sounds like what happened in Ellis
Island when people were coming over from other countries and
they're like last names and first names would just get
changed because they either couldn't spell it, couldn't
pronounce it, didn't like what it what it was, how it was
written or whatever. And then you basically would
erase somebody's entire history. Because now 3 generations after
Ellis Island or after their family came through Ellis
Island, they now don't know. They can't trace their family
back anymore, so they don't know where they came from and stuff.
Like it just erases history and culture and stuff.
Or people would purposely change their names to a white like a
Anglo-Saxon name because those are the people who would get
jobs. Yeah, yes, also that.
Is that why we have so many Smiths and Johnsons?
No, I mean it could be, but a lot of that was just like you
were your last name, just it was a description of like your what
your job was. So Smith was literally a Smith,
like somebody. Who I remember it, huh?
I think my last name got changed at some point as well, but
that's not relevant right now. Back to learning someone for me.
I just feel like it's. Basic respect to at least try to
learn someone's name, or just try to say it because it's like
the least about you could do. And yeah, we will most likely
butcher the pronunciation because some languages are hard
to say but at least try and then try even more to work on the
pronunciation, especially if this is a person you see a lot
like, especially in that case. But I just want to point and
like not to say like, oh I'm amazing.
But I when we have a guest that I don't know how to say their
name, well first we check with the guest for an interview with
how to pronounce their name. But I'm on YouTube or Google
trying to learn the pronunciation so I can say it
right even to them before we even ask.
Because it's just it's it's respect in my brain.
I don't know about you guys. I just, I do my best to attempt
or I ask multiple times, like how to 'cause I sometimes don't
hear things right, or like what I hear doesn't translate through
my mouth. So I try.
If I don't understand how to pronounce someone's name, I do
my best to ask or have them like phonetically say it in some way
to at least try. Yeah, I mean like try, try.
I mean we've pointed out multiple times.
I think it was just bad at names.
Bad at names. I try like sometimes some people
like, if I can see it written, that helps me.
I'm like, that doesn't help me. Actually, sometimes it makes it
worse, 'cause like, I wanna read it.
I don't wanna read it in Italian usually.
And so, like, I'm going to say it like, incorrectly, 'cause I'm
reading it in a different language.
So like, that gets me in trouble a lot more than I realize.
So yeah. So there's there are two
different sides. Like some people who may have
trouble, but make sure it's all names and not just foreign
names. Quote UN.
Quote. Yeah, no.
For me it's all names. I fuck up.
I fuck up a lot of words 'cause I'm I'm reading it in the wrong
language, I'm pronouncing it in the wrong language.
It's very and yours an interesting person.
And just again. We get we digress.
I'm not saying like you're a Tamil person if you can't say a
name. I just mean try.
Yeah, I try. It's just it's bad.
Yeah, it's a horrible attempt. I don't mean I don't.
I'm not trying to be malicious. No, I I understand you theor I I
can tell right away. I'm like, oh theor, it's not
gonna get. I'm not gonna get those.
Damn, I try. Sometimes I'll listen to even
with the YouTube stuff, I will still fuck it up like I just
tried. I'm just mad at it and I'm
sorry. Anyway, something else that was
very telling about the culture differences and them being seen
in a bad way. Everybody really sees their
ethnicity when the cops show up at the house parties.
And the quote that I pulled is and so after all right, let me
back up. So the cops come, and I believe.
Yeah, I mean Caesar. Thank you.
I for some reason Caesar was just slipping my mind.
Caesar comes to Yami and says the cops are here, we need to
go. And so they start running and
then eventually they look back and no one else is running and
it's because they didn't have to.
Everyone at this party is white and afterwards Yami is thinking
and here they just asked us to turn the music down.
No one is getting arrested or deported.
No kid is getting their head bashed into the floor.
The party is still happening. Their experiences are like if
they do anything wrong, they're threatened.
Their whole lives are threatened where these kids can get the
cops called, they come and give kids breathalyzers.
Yet the party still goes and there's no repercussions for
underage drinking. The privilege that these kids
have to not fear cops and the audacity to continue this part
because, like, that's the big thing in my mind.
Like, they don't even care that the cops came.
Yeah, telling, But then it's even worse because they laugh at
Yami and Caesar for running. But if they would have been
caught, you know, it wouldn't have end well, Like then the
party would have been done and those two would have been
getting taken. They would have pretended like
Yami was the most drunk there and drank the most and that's
why she was getting arrested. But it was just a very upsetting
scene in the makes you angry that this thing, these things do
happen. And even I was even more angry
at everybody around them because they would have, they should
have been questioning why did these two feel like they needed
to run, or why do we feel like we didn't have to 'cause that's
also big. Yeah, no, I totally agree.
And like, it's like, I like that the author put this here, 'cause
it's like, oh, you're like lulled into this, like, false
sense of security with, oh, it's a happy party, having fun.
And it's like, here's the reality of the situation for
these two particular characters. Like the way things can go
completely sideways in the way that, like death happens because
the cops were too aggressive or like deportation.
Like that's not nothing like to get kicked out for because the
music was too loud at a party, Like you're getting deported
from the country because of it. Like, that's insane.
Yeah. And so I I do it.
It's it's a it's an uncomfortable scene, but it's an
important scene to show that like the how like there's a 2
justice system here in America. There really is.
And it's not like it was some cautionary tale for them.
That's why they're scared. They've seen these things.
Exactly. They've experienced this.
Go sideways. Yeah.
It's not, it's not getting theoretical.
It's real. They're.
Dreamers, right? What did they mention?
That they're Dreamers. Or, I don't know, but there I
don't. I thought Yoni and her brother
were citizens. Yeah, I think they were there
because, 'cause they're like, freely able to go between
countries. And yeah, I think not that
Dreamers aren't, but, well, Dreamer is like, it's an
immigrant on the it's it's for kids, I think, where they can
gain citizenship. But I I think Yami and Cesar are
citizens. OK I got this one.
I I don't. Remember that specific chart?
So correct me some of the comments if we're wrong, yeah.
OK. Anything else about that before
we move on to the next point? No.
So I'll just get more angry. OK, but this might make you
angry too. So it does.
It does, I know. So Yami is the oldest sibling,
so it's her and her brother Caesar.
And you mentioned earlier the way she kind of like does a lot
of self sacrificing to take care of everyone.
And she particularly feels really really responsible for
raising Caesar. And she mentioned.
Especially after her. Dad was deported.
She's like, wow, it's up to me to raise him and she's
constantly in this. And to me it seems like she is
forced to grow up way too fast, 'cause here she is, a child,
she's a minor working two jobs to save money in case her mom
kicks her out after coming out. She's like raising her brother a
lot. Because on the other hand, her
mom works crazy hard just to keep them in the house, 'cause
now they went from a dual income house to a single income house.
She's an immigrant, probably can't get a great job, like,
because racism, etcetera. She didn't go to school,
whatever. So like they're put, they're her
family is at a disadvantage. Is all of that to say?
And then here's this kid who's like forced to grow up too
quickly to like raise her brother so he can he can be the
golden child, right. He, he does nothing.
Like he has no responsibility with any of that.
So he is free mentally and physically to like do whatever
he needs to do and he can be the brainiac and like go be a doctor
and like get the live the American dream basically where
she's just like, I'm supporting him.
That's my dream basically. So yeah, she's forced to grow up
too fast. Yeah, something that like really
struck me in the beginning with Yami was that she was so
stressed about getting another job.
Well, because she quit the 1:00 because of Bianca.
But she needed it to be able to pay for school, because she
needed to be able to take care of Caesar, but their mom could
only afford to send Caesar. Well, no.
Cesar had a full ride. Oh, her mom paid half the
tuition. Yami had to come up with the
other half so that she could be at the school with him.
That's right. I apologize.
Thank you. But I just you could feel all
the pressure on her on page 108. When she says I'm to her dad, I
believe. And she says I'm tired.
I'm just so tired. Yami has the weight of her
entire family on her shoulders. Like, yeah, the mom is she's
doing the best she can as well. Like you can only do so much
with being a one parent household.
And I do feel like the mom could have handled some more things,
like actually seeing how much Yami does, but at the same time
she is trying to just like keep their family afloat as well.
But it's also like from that particular point, it's also a
cultural thing that like, I I mean this comes from my culture
also where like the the a lot of things get put on the eldest
child no matter what. Like.
So like it's expected for Yami to just do all these things.
Like that's just what the eldest child is expected to do.
So yeah, her mom doesn't, like, recognize all the things or
like, not recognize, but like acknowledge to Yami, like, thank
you for doing all these things. It's because it's expected for
her to do those things. So like, unfortunately, like,
she's in a position where, like, she's expected to take on all
these roles. Like, regardless of the fact
that she's a child trying to figure her own shit out.
Like, you know, so it's like. Yeah, I just.
I just have trouble with that because I don't think any child
should have to be responsible for taking care of other people.
Yeah, and that's a very modern way of thinking, to be honest.
Cause like kids used to raise kids, like back in the day,
'cause they're, everybody was working and it's like somebody
got raised these kids, you know? And it's just like that that
poor child is burnout before she even becomes an adult.
Right. But that's what I mean it it
becomes even worse for her because then she has this thread
of, I feel unsafe in a possibly homophobic environment.
And then when she learns about Caesar, she's like, now I have
to get him out of here too. And so, like, it's, it's even
more pressure than, like normal is put on her to the point where
she's burning out. Like you said, Caitlyn as a
child, which is just, again, she's like forced to grow up way
too fast because of things out of her control, which is really
shitty. Yeah.
Fiora, did you ever feel like
you grew up too fast? Not really.
I mean, I had the eldest child syndrome where like a lot of
things were expected of me as the I was like the eldest child
of like two families, like eldest grandchild.
So like I had a lot of expectation on me.
So yeah, I felt I developed that like perfectionism mentality and
things like that, but I don't feel like I grew up too fast.
Do you Caitlin? That is a loaded question.
I know I've been like trying to figure out what to say, what to
hold back because I don't want it to be too long.
But I will say I had a fairly privileged childhood in the fact
that I didn't see anything going on until 4th grade at a time
where during that year my mom got really sick.
I had to the point where she couldn't work anymore.
So my parents separated when I was 3.
So we went from 2 incomes. We might have only been one
income the entire time. So we'll just say I had a one
income household. Then it went down to basically 0
income. So from then on it was just
really difficult for it was always just my mom and me and we
became homeless. I think I've talked about that a
couple times on the podcast and in on my own social media, and I
had to learn how to fend for myself, especially when my mom,
I don't want to OK, so trigger warning.
In 6th grade she my mom almost passed away because the doctors
were just letting her wither away.
So I had to learn to do laundry. I learned to cook for myself.
I learned how to load and unload moving trucks by myself because
my mom just wasn't able to do it.
Damn. Yeah.
I was so concerned about money that I I got a job as soon as I
could. Luckily at that time things got
better so I could quit 'cause I hated it.
Never be a bagger. It's so it's terrible.
But I I learned to take care of myself, and I'm very lucky that
it got better. But that the fear of not having
money, the fear of not having a place to live is always will
always be ingrained in me. And I the the money was a huge
thing. So like, I related to Yami with
trying to make money and I was so scared that I wouldn't even
let my mom buy me a belt. And then having to go to school
with people who were so privileged, you sit there and
you feel so small, like you don't belong.
And it's not exactly how Yami's situation because people didn't
know my situation just by looking at me.
They know more about Yami. Or like assume more about Yami
just by looking at her and. There is nothing worse than go
sitting next to ignorant kids who are your peers, but you are
so much older than them mentally because you know going home that
you don't have this like mansion that you're living in and after
school sports paid for, you're just trying to help your family
keep going. And it there's a lot, there's a
lot of pressure. And it not that it's put on you
either. It's just a sense of you feeling
like you should be helping your family, 'cause you see how hard
so Yami does see how hard her mom works.
And I saw my mom trying everything in her power.
So I felt like I needed to be not a burden on anybody.
I so I try to be the best I could.
I try to be the strongest I could be, so I could move
anything, I could build anything.
I could do anything that my mom would need, 'cause I didn't want
her to need anybody else, and I didn't want her to struggle even
more. So Long story short, yeah, I I
feel like I did grow up faster and I feel like I'm a little.
Stalled and growing up right now.
'Cause I'm trying to cling on to other things.
I've sorry for the long answer, but I noticed growing up that I
would watch TV and I was really delayed in what I watched.
So I watched like little kid television, PBS type stuff,
Clifford and that age group so that you would say toddler up to
6th grade and then I would watch Disney Channel.
I mean, I was still watching now like, it's mindless stuff, but
till after high school. And I think that was just a way
of clinging to a younger childhood that I didn't
necessarily get to experience like everybody else.
And I just, I I wanted it. So that was my little piece of
escaping in the TV and why I connect to media right now.
Sorry. No, thank you for sharing that.
I appreciate that answer, Paul. What did you say something to?
Me, did you say? Something to me.
Do you have an answer for that? So I honestly grew up very
privileged and I do acknowledge that I grew up in a extremely
white and well off neighborhood. I went to a fantastic this is.
I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to brag.
I'm not trying to like. I'm just stating like I I didn't
realize how bad some things and some people had it until I got
to college. I didn't see it.
I was so privileged that I heard of people that did go to the
school that they had like assisted lunches, like half
price lunches or whatever that like that.
We did have a food pantry in our town that I volunteered at.
I knew it was a thing, but I just didn't see anything.
It was just not like what I was around.
I guess my whole family, like my family.
When my my my mom's parents moved here, they were extremely
poor. They lived in New York City in
like a they with in the neighborhood that had all of
their relatives in it. And they, my grandparents worked
like my grandfather worked like 3 jobs the oldest.
This is exactly what you were saying how like the oldest
sibling takes care of everybody. So my aunt took care of
everybody worked from as soon as she was able to like threw
everything, fed everybody like she was the mom because my
grandmother didn't work. She grew up privileged in
Ecuador and like came over here and was like, I have no skills.
I I never cooked for myself. I've never worked, I've never
done anything. So her oldest daughter took care
of everybody. But I think when my family put
down roots in New Jersey, like my my parents, they wanted to
not have that as our upbringing, I'm assuming because I never saw
anything like that. My family had all moved out of
New York City and moved into like the suburbs and everybody
was like trying their best to kind of be the American dream.
And I. So while I didn't have the like
I I I felt it more like internally like I was like the
emotional part wasn't up to par. So like while everything was fit
like financially stable and I grew again, grew up quite
privileged, My emotional stability and my emotional like
ability to interact with other people and the how my parents
interacted with me, it was not great.
So I didn't have the again the the financial like financially
everything was fine. But I I grew up in AI, had to
take care of myself because I didn't feel I could count on my
family to be there for me. So it was a little bit
different, but I I guess I I grew up emotionally faster than
I should have. That's fair.
That's valid. OK, Yeah.
So that little sideline, I will have just one more thing.
I think I would have been such a bitch if I continue to be.
Privileged though. Because, Oh my God, did I rule
that Catholic school? Damn Galen.
But also, damn, those kids are racist as shit.
They're terrible. Yeah, I'm lucky that my mom, I
came home from kindergarten and said one thing, 'cause I think I
heard it from other kids too. She brought in exchange
students. She's like, I'm exposing you to
other cultures, like this is not happening.
And so then I never had an issue again.
And then I always made friends with the bullies and made them
nice, 'cause they were just trying to fit in.
So yeah, I was a very outspoken child.
And then I got really, really introverted and shy once
everything happened but moving. On it's Sorry to this.
I'm gonna add to that a little bit.
It's interesting how different pieces like 'cause I feel the
same way. Like I I was very outspoken as a
very young kid, and then like emotional stuff happened.
Like I had like my. Like I stopped believing in God.
I figured out that my gender was wrong.
Then I figured out like I was, I was gay.
And like all these things just kind of like internalized
everything as opposed to being like an external thing that was
going on. So like we even though like our.
The. Like what we actually went
through was different. I feel like it seems like our
like how we emotionally dealt with stuff seems kind of
similar, if that makes sense. Mm hmm.
OK. So let's go back to the book.
We've we've done group therapy. Let's continue.
So something about Yami and Caesar's relationship.
I do love that Yami had Caesar to relate to with religion
because in the beginning, you don't know that Yami doesn't
know that Caesar is gay. And first of all, that
revelation, I loved. He's bisexual.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Bye. Thank you for correcting me.
We do not do by erasure on this podcast.
So Yami really struggles with religion, and I I feel like a
lot of queer people go through this who grow up in a religious
household, and on page 14, she says In the hallway.
I avoid looking at her collection, talking about her
mom, her mom's collection of crosses, and the gallery of
Jesus portraits on the walls. First of all, that's that's a
lot. I we do have some here.
And I also was just like, OK, that doesn't exist because it's
just, it's very it's very odd. And then on page 97, she says, I
grew up Catholic, but I don't exactly agree with everything
the faith preaches. As far as the higher power goes,
I have no idea what I believe in.
That Catholic guilt shit messes me up, though.
If there's a hell, I'm definitely going there and I
relate to like, I don't know what I believe in, 'cause you're
like, fed this stuff when you're younger, you have no choice but
to believe what you're being told.
Indoctrination. That's what it is.
Yeah. And when during all of this, she
does talk about how she is able to talk about to Caesar.
Mm hmm. But like, there's no way she
could ever say any of her internal thoughts to her mom,
because her mom is has this collection of stuff 'cause she
is so religious. And I just like how that allows
them to relate to each other, and later they bond over
queerness. But when you grow up in a place
where you're surrounded with something you don't know if you
even believe in, I'm really glad that she had someone to escape.
It from, yeah. It with, yeah.
And now, anyone have something to say about that before we move
on to? No, I I agree with that.
I relate with that experience as well and I do.
I like your point that at least she had Caesar kind of as an
ally in that. Kind of like.
I don't know how to describe it, but basically processing her,
her faith and what it means to her, yeah.
Yeah, so I want to move on to Yami's relationship with her
parents because this is a very interesting arc, I feel.
So the story starts with a huge disconnect with Yami and her
mom, and Yami's father is her hero.
So we see it proven that Yami's mom is always more concerned
about Caesar, which causes a rift between them.
And I mean, yeah, Caesar's the baby, I am the baby, so I don't
know the experience from the adult.
I'm sure it was hard of my brother, especially 'cause he's
13 years older than me. He.
Wasn't very much president in my life.
So it's just a disconnect for me in this.
Story. I think there's another piece to
it, though, with Yami. It's not just that Caesar's the
baby. I think the other piece is that
the reason why she idolizes her father so much as I think she
has, she's holding on to that person he was in the past.
And so, like to her, she remembers her father when she
was young. And when you're young, you don't
see your parents as people. You see them as heroes, like
people who can do no wrong, people who everything they say
is right. So, like, that is what she's
clinging to for her dad, where it's like her mother, now that
she's older and becoming an adult, she can see her mother
more as a human being and sees and because of that sees her
faults. And so she's like, oh, mom's so
flawed and blah, blah. And she worked so hard.
She doesn't take her culture seriously, but dad always did
when I was a child. And she doesn't know her dad
anymore. They don't really talk about
real things. It's just like that superficial,
like, how are you doing? Tell me about your day.
Like, she doesn't know her father anymore.
So I think that's the other part of why she's always she sees her
mother so negatively. It's like she doesn't actually
know her father. And so she's clinging to the
past with him, whereas her mother, like, she she hasn't
fully reconciled the fact that her mother's a human being with
flaws quite yet. And I think she kind of resents
her a little bit, 'cause, like that happens, like as you age
and you're trying to understand that your your parents are just
people. People are flawed.
Like, it's like a shattering of the illusion kind of thing that
she's going through, yeah. You're completely right.
Her father's just frozen in time for her.
Yeah. Exactly.
So that that that's a big problem.
And and I and I don't think she ever really recognizes that at
all, 'cause she she's never really gonna know her father.
No, because unfortunately, which is terrible.
Unfortunately and fortunately. Because for her situation, yeah.
So Yami's mom was fairly expressive with her views on gay
people, even it was only subtle at times.
Or not so subtle. So one thing that, like, really
caught my attention is when her mom Shields her eyes when two
women start kissing on TV. But Yami points out that she is
fine with hold on. Sorry, I keep hitting the
adjustable desk. And it keeps going up and down.
But Yami points out that her mom is fine with her watching
someone get murdered. And I love the comparison
because it shows that people are more OK with murder than they
are with people ganging it up all over the place.
This is such an American thing, though.
It's ridiculous like because in the in media cause of the way
media is like rated. Like if there's something
explicitly queer that happens in it, it automatically gets bumped
up to a mature audience. But like violence can be at a
lower maturity. So like kids are, it's OK with
children watch murder and like violence cause violence is like
everything that's fine. But if guns are rated G if it's
queer. Nope.
Adults only. It's like what?
It's actually insane when you think about it.
I mean it starts with like Bambi, literally.
It's not even humans, but that's like the parents die in the
first like however. Every Disney movie.
Every Disney movie, Yeah. But it's like everything starts
with death, and death is like all over the place and that's
already G. But like death is a part of
life, but when you're explicitly talking about like watching a
murder happen on like you're watching the violence, Bambi was
cut away. Exist for existence.
For example, in Home Alone, you get that the The Lost and I
think it's Home Alone two. Yeah, the New York one.
You see the guy shooting a gun in the one scene like when he's
trying to pretend like his dad is there and is because like he
got he gets a hotel room and pretending like his dad is there
and he's the one who paid for it and there is like the hotel
staff outside the door. So he has his movie on and he's
like, I'm gonna give you the count of three until I blow your
brains out 1-2 and then the the hotel person leaves 'cause they
don't want to get their brains shooted out, but that's fine,
that's a kids movie. But.
It's just that's very, a very American thing.
Yeah, but back to Yami. So Yami revamped her mom's Etsy
shop and she was so proud of what she did.
And I'm proud of her too. But it was crushed when her mom
told her to take it down. And I mean, I see both sides,
cause Yami's mom like, she thinks that because she posted
it as well, she thinks that they're trying to ask people for
help and that's not. Oh, that's not how I read it.
That's an interesting read. I also read it as Mom being like
shit. That's gonna be more work for
me. And I'm already like this woman.
When does she take a break? Like, she's she's doing working
two jobs by herself and she's like, she had her business at a
state that was manageable for just her to do.
So she's like, fuck, how am I gonna keep up with all these
orders? Like, I can't believe you did
that. Like, so I think she was
freaking out, 'cause? Like, yeah, OK, yeah, 'cause.
I think they had a bunch of orders at the time.
Exactly. She's like, Oh my God, I don't
have time to do this. And now, like people are gonna
think that of my business and like, yeah, I think that's.
Really, that is true as. Well, I think Yami saw, saw it
that way. But I do like that like the way
the Etsy, the store gets to thrive is by the two of them
working together because like her mom needed help and like she
has no support system really. Like the father that that her
her husband's gone. Like she has no support system.
So, like, I like that Yami kind of steps in and fills that role
for her mother because her mom needs help.
Like the story you were telling Caitlin like and there's nobody
there to help her mom, you know? Yeah, Yeah.
But because her mom told her to take it down, Yami turns to her
father. And I I thought it was a really
cute experience that she woke up to a text from her mom telling
her to leave the store up and one from her father telling her
that he talked to her and it has like a wiki face at at the end
and it's just in the beginning. I was so hopeful with that whole
relationship, 'cause I love seeing the father in her like
connect and I guess it is superficial because she I didn't
even think about how he is frozen in time for her and but
from there it fortunately, unfortunately it starts to go
downhill with the father. And like I said, I was hopeful
for this relationship, especially when he, the father
told Yami that she's allowed to be honest with him.
I thought that he knew already. I thought and would understand
her. Like, I thought he figured out
that she's queer or like something is bothering her and
she needed to tell him. Well, from her perspective also,
he seemed so much more open to differences, like to anything
like just seemed more open as a person versus the mom who in her
portrayal is so like rigid and very Christian and very or very
Catholic rather and very like. That's not good and if it's not
good, it's not OK kind of thing. Whereas the dad was in her
perception was the the opposite of that.
Yeah. And I think part of that had to
do with the fact that, like, the dad, like, stood up for human
rights for like, immigrants and things like that.
And so she's like, oh, he's receptive to like radical change
and things like that. But it's like, no, he's like he
had a vested interest in that for himself.
Yeah. It doesn't mean he's necessarily
open minded about your particular situation.
That doesn't align with him. And I think like the mom is the
more conservative figure out of safety for herself.
And also like I think that's a way for her to cling to her
roots is by being very Catholic because like unfortunately that
was that is a is a very colonizing imperialist religion
that was imposed on many indigenous people including
indigenous Mexicans. So but like to the mom who grew
up probably Catholic in Mexico like that's a way to cling to
her culture. It's just not the same cultural
experience that Yami got with her dad, who, you know, so.
That whole story, the whole arc between the two parents.
When Yami's mom finds out that both her kids are queer, she she
ends up like while they're while Yami's at school and I think
Cesar was coming home from the hospital later that day.
She decorates all the house in a rainbow stuff and.
Yeah, it gets a. Cake and it's just adorable
issue. They're like, what is going on?
She's like. It's gay.
Can I find something like that? Yeah, And that was really.
Sweet. Feel happy because it doesn't
matter even what she believed in.
She's like, I believe in my kids and I will accept you for who
you are and I will get there. I will meet you where you are
instead of you having to hide yourself.
And I know she came on a really strong with them, but it's so
cute and it's really supportive of her and it means that she had
to go look up the bi flag colors and do research on this to know
what those colors were. And it's it's so special and
something I know that they'll remember for their entire life.
Oh yeah, for sure. I wonder if she texted Jamal
too, to be like what is the bive like because she loved him.
Oh, my gosh. Yes.
That relationship was also very cute.
I love that she loves Jamal. Yeah, it could be like, all
right, Jamal, I need help. Let me figure, like, educate me
here. That would have been a real, I'm
pretty sure. That was the Google she
contacted. Him.
But what really not surprised me, 'cause I didn't really know
what to expect, is when she finds out that her husband was
treating Yami horribly and not talking to her, and that she
immediately was just like, you're out of our lives.
Like, even though she loved this man, I again, they're also a
rift. Because there he was, frozen in
time for her as well, 'cause like they only got to talk on
the phone. That's what I'm saying.
What was that relationship actually?
What was the? End game there.
I wonder what even happened when they went back and visited him,
because like there there is gonna be a disconnect.
Like who knows if there is even a connection?
Correct. Yeah, I always wonder about that
with the parents, 'cause we don't really get their point of
views. You're just seeing it from Yami.
He's a kid. Who it would be interesting to
have, like, an epilogue from maybe the mom's point of view.
Yeah, I would. Maybe the dad's point of view
'cause I just wanna see what the hell is in that brain.
Right. And it's like, This is why I
don't like YA, 'cause, like you only see it from the child's
point of view. And it's like you lose the
complexity of what's actually happening in this scenario.
And so when we get to the end though, with the mom doing the
coming out thing that you're talking about the the little
pride celebration, like it's like Yami's like, oh wow, my
mother loves me. And it's like your mother's
loved you the whole fucking time.
Like the the reason your mom is so tired and like it like burnt
out is because she's literally sacrificing her life for the two
of you. Like she loves you so much.
She is sacrificing her, like, quote, American Dream so that
you can have it right. And like you're sitting here
idolizing your father who's not in it.
He's not supporting you. He doesn't have to.
Like, his money doesn't go towards you.
Like he's not actually supporting any of you.
So he gets to be like this good fun guy who just like pops in
occasionally and like, gets to be the hero.
But it's like your mother is the one who's like literally with
you all the time. She is the one making the
sacrifice. She's the one keeping a roof
over your head, like. And that is lost completely when
you look at it from a child's point of view only.
And like, that's really why. I don't like it.
It's very common. In families.
Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say.
It's very realistic cause like now thinking about my family,
like they did a lot to keep us, like me and my sister, like a a
lot. I mean they they gave us
everything, pretty much everything we wanted, you know,
Like we we had enough and yet still going through everything.
Like you just don't see it until you're an adult, until you can
reflect on like, oh OK, like, yeah, like they had their own
things that they were dealing with and going through and
trying to still be a parent even though whatever was happening in
in their adult lives as well. Yeah, until you're working and
you're like, oh, they need a time for themselves as well.
They can't just be taking. Care of us?
Yeah, 'cause like the point of view with children.
It's just so narrow. And personally, I find that
boring. So like I mean that's fair
whether where you? Where you are in life like
you're. Right, exactly.
That is where you are in life, Like.
But like, where I'm at, I'm like, well, what was going on
with other people, 'cause like, there's more to the story and
I'm only seeing, like, this tiny piece of it, I.
Think For me, I still relate to these books in the fact that I
didn't have like the typical high school experience because I
was so worried about other things and the social aspect.
I'm very delayed in, I personally feel, so I'm trying
to learn from everybody else, like learning themselves in high
school because I never really did that.
See. And I feel the exact same way.
Like I I love like this book felt so like I I went along like
I remember high school in very similar points to what was
talked about in this book. Like that's and it was like a
very it helped like I don't know about come to terms but it
helped. Like heal.
Yeah, I guess heal in a way. Not fully, of course, 'cause
it's just a book, but like. It helped put in.
Books are powerful. Yeah, they are powerful, but
like, but it just it felt so relatable to to me and like
growing up and everything. So it was nice having it in book
form as opposed to just in my brain as memories.
Yeah, anything else before I just go over a couple more
things I liked, apparently. Do it.
I put my likes at the end. I have some to add in this likes
like section so if you want to. Go first, would you?
You can go go first. I just want to add I loved the
titles of this book like the titles of the chapters.
I loved the like twisting of like religious themed titles
like thou shalt not trust A22 Faced bitch Like I just I don't
know I it just felt like trying to.
I don't know what the word is like.
Almost twist the. It's a play on words.
Yeah, yeah, I like, I like the way the author, so the author's
very witty. Like, again, like, I'm not a
huge fan of why, but I really love the way this book was
written. The author's A.
Clearly a very. Prolific writer.
I like the way the writer also used the titles to show Yanni's
headspace, because if you notice the IT will.
It pivots at some point when she gets to basically like her big
epiphany. And it stops going away from
like the Catholic school, the Catholic kind of titles to more
like Mexican heritage. Kind of.
I forget I don't have the book in front of me, I haven't read
it in a while, but like, it pivots as the character pivots.
So I really like the way the author.
Not only they're funny, but like there's a purpose behind why
their author did that and I just I find that depth interesting in
the story. So a few things I.
Liked I should have put this one in another section, but I don't
know why I didn't. Not this one, but the next one.
So the first one that I want to talk about is Caesar's response
to response to blatant racism. And I just love that he says the
call Cassidy. Yeah, again, this book is so
witty. Like I do love it.
It was very I found myself laughing actually out loud,
multiple times. It was great.
OK, so the next one I did. I'll.
I'll read it fast so we don't spend too much time.
I thought that was really relatable, that Yami kept
comparing where she lived to other people she went to school
with because she was so ashamed of where she lived.
And she didn't want Beau to know where she lived because she
lives in such a nice house and it's rough when you go to
school. People who have everything and
they can't understand what you have.
I love that Yami is comfortable with her outward appearance and
she's able to admit that she looks cute as hell and loves her
style. And I think that confidence also
helped her accept who she is on the inside, and something I wish
I had just to be totally comfortable with who you what
you look like on the outside. I just find it very admirable.
Yeah, and I also find it very interesting that, like, she
outwardly is comfortable with who she is, but it's the inner
self. That's why, like, I That's why I
really love the the imagery of the mirror, because the mirror
is your inner self. That's really what she's ashamed
of and struggling with. But outwardly, she's like very
comfortable with her heritage, with the way she looks and
everything you just said. So it's a very interesting
dichotomy for a teenager specifically, where, like a lot
of teenagers are just like they're grossed up by why they
look. Also so I I like that she had it
made her more interesting as a character to me.
So I did enjoy that. Not on here, 'cause I I didn't
see this section when I wrote my notes.
But I will add Cesar Jabal. I love them.
They're very cute just about them because they were adorable
and cute and I just love Jamal. Oh my God, he wasn't in it
enough. I would love to see in like 20
years, a family Christmas where maybe Bo and Yummy go home
together. Maybe they're together, who
knows? Or maybe they're just friends
and they have other people, but Jamal and Caesar are definitely
together. And then they all go to their
house and celebrate Christmas Eve, I think.
I think they celebrate, whatever.
That doesn't matter, correct? Yeah.
I'm surprised you didn't put the mental health stuff in here,
Caitlin. I I mean, I think I was going to
talk about that earlier or I didn't get to that part of the
notes, but just yeah, in general, the the I I do love the
mental health. First of all, they told him that
they gave him a set amount of time, that it would be 3 days
and then he'd go home. What the hell if I was given
that option? That's 'cause he was on suicide
watch. I think at in the hospital like
just 72 hour hold, right? It's it's like that's a legal
thing. It's a seven they have the
hospital has to hold you legally for 72 hours.
If there the doctor invokes, they are a suicide risk.
Yeah, there's like a law that they can use to hold you for
it's and it's 72 hours, that's it.
Then they can't legally hold you after that.
You can be. You can be admitted after that,
but you could also elect to go home after exactly.
Then it's they cannot legally hold you anymore.
You could leave against medical advice and things like that.
And it's more complicated too, 'cause he's a minor so mom could
force him to stay. But like, the hospital legally
can hold you for 72 hours if you were a.
Christian So my experience was that when I went into the
hospital, it you, OK, so first of all you want to put yourself
in there if if you get forced in there, you definitely cannot
choose to leave. Like it's you're under the will
of these people. And so many of us were trying to
get out and basically you would say I want a 72.
And so that was like in you have 72 hours and they release you,
but your doctor has to sign off on that and if they determine
that you're not OK to leave, you are stuck there even longer.
So it yeah, it was a very, I felt like I was in prison, a
decent prison. But like it that whole thing
just felt very prison. Like to me, not that I know what
prison is. I'm sure prison's so much worse.
But like doors would lock and key cards were needed.
It was just a very weird environment.
But I just. I just found that interesting
that I always love it when they put the mental hospital in books
and show that it's OK if you need to go there, 'cause it's OK
to get the help that you need. Yeah, and I like that.
They also show it's Caesar's journey, which is realistic,
especially in Aya book that like just 'cause you go to the
hospital and get treated for something mentally, it doesn't
mean that you're fixed magically.
Like, it's a huge process like that.
He's gonna have good days and bad days.
Like, it's not. And I like that they do that in
a heart. Stopper too, where they're
showing. Like, it's not.
You're not. It's not like an infection where
like you treat the infection, the infection's gone.
It's like this is something that can take a lifetime to work
through. But a lot of people who aren't
experiencing expect you to just be magically fixed.
And also you do as well. Like I, every time I go into the
intensive therapy or even the hospital, I came home, I was
like, I still feel like shit. Like, why do I still So trigger
warning for SI. Yeah.
Suicidal ideation. Yeah.
Yeah, OK. I was like, yeah, yeah.
I was like, I can never remember all the letters.
I was like, why do I still not want to be here?
Why do I still feel like I can't continue?
And eventually it did dissipate to.
I mean, some days it comes back sometimes.
There's still situations where I'm like, oh, I can't handle
this, But it's definitely when you leave those places, you're
just trying to. At least for myself, I was
trying to get out, just to get out and feel like I was OK, but
I wasn't. And then you have people
treating you differently afterwards, not wanting to leave
you alone. Yeah.
Caesar. Yeah.
Yeah, like. It it's a lot.
I I will. But I also, I just really like
that the books tackle that because not it's not something
you talk about. I mean now in days it's a lot
better. And that's why in the podcast
I'm always like very open with every experience I have because
I just want people to feel seen and that's what the media is for
us and why we're here. Yeah, and so the other thing I
really like about Caesar's journey, I thought he was, I
agree with, Oh my God, first person who recommended this to
us, CC, who came in our discord and talked about it and said
that Caesar was like the most interesting character and found
Caesar very, very fascinating. I totally agree with that
because a lot of what happens with Caesar we don't see because
we have a child giving us their perspective.
And to a child the world is myopic and and Yami only sees
Yami's world. So like there's glimpses of
Caesar, but Yami doesn't really see the full picture of Caesar
cause Yami's very focused on Yami which is a very child thing
to do. But what's also interesting, so
like you know was an exile. I gave so many signs but Yami
missed all the signs. I had to do at least one
reference. Oh, you remind me of something,
yes. So, like from our narrator's
point of view, the fact that Yami missed all of Caesar's
signs that he was not OK is not. It's kind of expected from who
our narrator was. What's also interesting is that
the mother didn't see any of it, and I think that's because she's
so busy trying to like make money for them and like run the
household and keep these, you know, kids in a fancy school
that she didn't have time to see it.
So it's kind of like the reality of being in that situation where
mom is working herself to death basically and isn't around and
her daughter resents her for not really being around enough.
But like, because the mom is doing her best in this shitty
situation, she is missing what's actually going on with her kids.
Like. And it could be something really
horrible that she's missing. But it's like, you can't.
It's not her fault. It's like their situation just
is like unfortunate, kind of like in that home environment
where she doesn't like she doesn't see it either.
So like, poor Caesar was basically like this unhappy
ghost, like in the house where, like, he had no, he was more
isolated than anybody else. And like, nobody knew it, 'cause
he just presents as the Golden Boy, you know?
And unfortunately, it takes such an extreme scenario for people
to wake up and that is what happens for people like.
Again, no one knew anything was wrong with me because you will
always. I think there was a Robin
Williams. I believe that's his name.
A quote like happy people are the saddest on the no, the
saddest people try to make other people laugh or something like
that. Like, they're like, That's why
comedians. I always like, are you OK with
like some jokes? Like, but how are you really
feeling? I'm like, let's do therapy.
So where did that joke come from?
No. So just but it's rough.
Like you you are just trying to get through.
Like you can't worry about when you are worried.
Sorry. So for Yami's mom's point of
view, she is worried about them and just trying to give them the
basics that they need. So but at the she still needs to
take care of herself as well, and it's hard to see everything
that's going on because it's just too much for one person.
Yeah. So my thought through reading
this whole book was like, how is her mother actually?
Because like her, there's no way her marriage is like so strong.
Like there's no way like she. Like, they think I don't
remember which parents said it, but they're like, oh, that was
the love of my life and blah blah.
But it's like, how's it now, 'cause, like, you guys barely
talk, You can't see each other. Like, Mom is now the head of the
household she didn't expect to be.
And like, is living this life she didn't expect to have.
And it's like, clearly very taxing on her.
And it's like, really, how was how was their mom, 'cause like,
I worry about. I worry about that woman.
And the amount of times she's just crying because her husband
isn't there and she's doing all this by herself and.
That's terrifying. Two kids by yourself in a
foreign country. Like, where's her book?
Yeah, that's that's the sequel. That's the book I want.
Make it what the mom's story is like.
Make it an actual for the older generation, not for real.
Yeah, you know what I mean. Anyway, any other points you
guys like before we kind of wrap this up?
Cole. Did any of you?
Have. A bow like when you were in
school, like somebody who you're just like, wow, they actually
either stand up for themselves, stand up for what they believe
in. They like, you know, just like
emulate bow in your own life. Looking back, there was a girl
in my, I think it was a forensic science class, and she always
talked about her girlfriend. And at the time I knew I was
questioning myself, but I wasn't.
I was like refusing to actually think about it and I just
thought it was really cool that she was so open about having a
girlfriend. She was so happy with having a
girlfriend and she was just always herself.
She likes cosplay, so she would wear some stuff to school.
She would always share with what she's working on.
She didn't care what anyone. Thought.
At least that's what it seems like.
And I do love that. And I think about her every once
in a while. Yeah, I mean, for me it was like
a queer girl who was out and I was just like, well, if you can
do it, I can do it. And she like I was.
I played lacrosse and she played lacrosse for like a different
school. And she's like, damn, she can do
it. I can do it.
And then, yeah, that's what motivated.
Me. That sounds like a good YA book.
My life would not make a good way.
No, I just mean that whole concept of a closeted lacrosse
player and then a rival out I. Wish they got together, but they
did not. That is not how that story went,
anyway. That's OK.
Sure happens. I guess my last thing would just
be the section that we've been adding to recent episodes
randomly. What Taylor Swift songs do I
relate to? This week.
Oh man, for this book. Damn.
Would you like to a moment to think or do you want me to go?
The only thing that's popping into my head is you belong with
me. That's like yummy to bow and
vice versa. Oh.
I love it. OK, so my I have a journey of
songs for Yami and Bianca actually.
Oh, that's really good 'cause maybe now we got bad blood.
Actually, that's not one of the I could have, so I'm just
thinking like Yami's like internal emotions.
So before she even says anything, I was thinking the one
that turns into Betty, with Bianca suddenly changing the way
that. You're in your Betty era right
now, I love. Betty, and then to my tears
ricochet. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
And then Yami, I would say in general is epiphany in the fact
that she does everything for everyone else and dreams about
her future. So basically this book is
folklore. Yeah, I was just gonna say these
are all folklore. Sucks.
I was going down the list, looking at lyrics and So what
you're. Saying is that Anne could have
wrote this. Book that was a spoiler for our
May book club that will release in June.
Yes, goody spoiler. Your dear Wendy.
I'm so excited for that book. That's so.
Good. Anyway, OK, thank you, Caitlin.
I I agree, this is very full glory.
OK, so let's get back to Lesbian Jesus.
OK, so now that we've concluded our discussion on this, we will
wrap this up with our Lesbian Jesus Hydration Scale.
This is our scoring system that was developed by Gay Science
right here at Big Gay Energy, which makes it a super accurate
method for determining how valuable a piece of queer media
is to the Queer Media Library. Why are we hydrating?
Because queer media, like water, is essential for life.
So how much would you hydrate for Lesbian Jesus for the
Lesbian as Guide to Catholic School?
Was Moses the 1 depart to see? I think so.
Cool. Correct.
I'm going to name Moses Mabel for this purpose because we have
lesbian Jesus, so we're naming it Moses Mabel.
So 10 Mabel's parted seas. What's Moses, Mabel?
Moses parting the That's it. The amount of water Moses had to
hold back when he was parting the Red Sea.
Mabel. No, I was just.
I was just changing Moses's name.
You just don't worry about it, Moses.
Time. Moses's.
Oh, sorry. OK, cool.
It did not land. I just I shouldn't know what.
Mabel meant. I I I got the reference, but I
didn't know what what Mabel meant.
What was Mabel? Oh, I don't have anything
clever. That's.
OK. I.
What number would you give it? I would give.
It. Oh goodness.
I really like this. I'm gonna give it.
I'm gonna give it a, like, solid 10 of like.
I related way too strongly to this book.
It felt like my high school experience and which I'm not
sure if that's good, but I that's where we're at.
So. It's novel worthy, if anything.
Your experience. I don't know what my experience
was, but this book was very, very good.
I I really enjoyed it. I was very excited about it.
Good. And I will give it whatever
amount of water it takes for Jamal and Caesar to be end game,
because I want them to be end game.
You should split. It needs to be a split book
between the mom's point of view and then what's happening with
Caesar and Jamal. Nah, we can just have two more.
Books. Yeah, two more books.
That sounds good. I enjoyed this, but I appreciate
the effort. All right, cool.
So that concludes our book club. What's next?
Solitaire. All right, Yeah.
So then the book we're currently reading now and we'll be doing
our next book club on is Solitaire by Alice Osmond.
Osmond. Anyway, I do it wrong every.
You know what's really funny, 'cause the first time we said it
in hard supper, I think I said Osman.
And you're like, no, it's Osman. So it's stuck in my head that
it's I'm. So sorry, I probably did that to
you. I'm sorry.
Alice Osman, the queen of just writing queer stuff, and I love
it. So basically what Solitaire is,
is it's the first her first novel she wrote at like 14,
'cause she's a genius. And it's basically the first
book in the Heartstopper universe, even though it wasn't
intended to be. So it follows Tori Spring, who's
Charlie's older sister, and it like takes place during book
four of Heartstopper. It's really weird and meta and
like basically like her brother is like featured in it with Nick
and that sparked her to be like, it'll be interesting to write
about them and that's sparked hard stopper.
So we're reading that book cause Tori is a queen and deserves her
own book club episode. So check that book out.
It's super. I've read it, It's really great.
And I'm excited for Caitlin to read it, 'cause I really think
you're gonna like it. Oh, I If Fiora tells me I'm
gonna like something, most likely I'll like it.
Fiora, it's. It's a book about Tori.
How do you not love that? Anyway, the.
Diet Lemonade Origin story Yeah, it's No, literally, it's.
I love Tori anyway, so that will be our next book club.
So thank you for joining if you have any.
Like you said at the beginning, if you have any books you would
like us to check out and or cover, please leave a comment.
Reach out to us, let us know. And thanks again.
Charlie. Yes, Charlie S I'm so sorry.
There was the heart stopper thing and then your name happens
to be Charlie too. Thank you again for suggesting
this book. It was really great.
We had a lot of fun reading it, and until next time, hydrate for
lesbian Jesus and. Gate up all over the place.
Bye. And with that, we've been big
gay energy. Thank you for listening.
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Until next time, hydrate from lesbian Jesus.
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