1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,100 Hey guys, it's Chris here. I wanted to jump on real quick, 2 00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:10,500 and give you an update as to what's going on with the 3 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,500 podcast. And why there isn't a story 4 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:17,700 episode today. As of right now, my wife and I 5 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:21,500 are traveling in our camper van across the country, visiting, 6 00:00:21,500 --> 00:00:25,400 friends, and family. And to be completely honest, 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,800 this week has been super busy, I haven't had a moment. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,700 It's time to really focus on the story episode and that is 9 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:38,700 definitely in the works, but I didn't want to leave you guys 10 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:43,500 hanging in today's episode. We're going to be listening to 11 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:47,600 an interview with dr. J Allen hynek. 12 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:53,900 Now if you recall from episode 1 Grandma's, UFO encounter dr. 13 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:58,900 J Allen hynek was the lead investigator hired by the 14 00:00:58,900 --> 00:01:03,400 government to Decayed, the strange UFO encounters that were 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,400 happening in Michigan during 1966. 16 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:11,200 If you haven't listened to that episode, I highly recommend 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,500 going back and listening to that first. 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Now this interview was conducted in 1977, so Ten Years After 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,900 Grandma's. UFO encounter, dr. 20 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:27,400 Hynek has changed his opinion over the years, and has really 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,700 made it. His life's mission to figure 22 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:31,100 out. Out what on Earth. 23 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:35,900 These UFO sightings are in the interview conducted by JP 24 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:39,400 McCarthy. You get to really hear the 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,700 hard-hitting questions and dr. Hynek I think handles it. 26 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:47,500 Very scientifically and practically but it's also 27 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:51,100 extremely fascinating. How he's changed his viewpoint 28 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:55,400 on what these things are. People also call in with their 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,100 experiences, he answers their questions and this may seem I 30 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:03,200 did, but I think it's very applicable to what we're 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,200 experiencing today with all of the news and the UFO sightings 32 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:09,300 that are happening around the world. 33 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,500 So, without further Ado, here's the interview with dr. 34 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:19,200 J Allen, hynek, there has been new interest, rekindled, because 35 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,500 of the incredible success of a movie called Close Encounters of 36 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:26,600 the Third Kind for which dr. Hynek was a technical consultant 37 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,800 made a cameo appearances. A matter of fact, and we thought 38 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:33,200 It might be interesting to peruse with him some of the 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,400 reports over the last 30 years in the information that he has 40 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,400 sifted through and see what he really thinks about it. 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,600 All some of his credentials. Well, he four years headed up 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,400 the Air Force's investigations into unidentified flying object. 43 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,400 Seems self was a debunker for a very long time. 44 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:53,600 You remember the marsh, guess explanation for the sightings in 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,400 Washtenaw County and in Hillsdale, 10 years ago, that 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,300 was dr. Hynix idea, he Till very 47 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,700 recently was professor of the astronomy department at 48 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,500 Northwestern University's head of the center for UFO studies in 49 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,600 Chicago and he has devoted a good portion of his life into 50 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,100 studying the phenomenon known as UFOs dr. 51 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:17,100 Hynek. On a very snowy, blowy morning 52 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,300 on this Friday in Detroit were pleased that you were here. 53 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:22,000 Welcome. Well, I'm glad to be here. 54 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,500 I wanted to know the correct tooth minor points wonders. 55 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:27,900 I did not head up. The are forcing. 56 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:30,000 I was a consultant to them and I'm still L. 57 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,900 Am professor of astronomy at Northwestern. 58 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:35,900 I I did not have one more year to go there before calendar 59 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,000 catches, and I rich something. Just this morning. 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,800 I had been advertising all week long, I thought I'd read 61 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,300 something, just this morning that said, that you had resigned 62 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:45,600 that I'm gonna bore. I resigned my chairmanship are 63 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:47,300 chairman for 15 years. Yes. 64 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:48,800 Okay. Well you were still with 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:49,500 Northwest. Yes. 66 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:53,000 Still with Northwestern, right? He did not unidentified flying 67 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,200 objects. Have been popular since 1947 68 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,800 1948. When the the Bevy of them were 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,400 cited before that were there any reports in history? 70 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,800 As far as you're concerned of UFOs. 71 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,600 Oh yes. There are many reports but 72 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,400 still, they're so hard to track down and even now if any 73 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,800 reporters more than they say you're too old, it's hard to 74 00:04:13,808 --> 00:04:19,000 track down but we course clear back to Biblical times the Z Qs 75 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,300 wheel would have been a good example and Saul of Tarsus and 76 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:25,700 the road to Damascus. And the old all through history, 77 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:28,600 there have been reports and stories of strange sights in the 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,400 sky and on the ground. But I have my hands. 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,700 So full, with the present ones, I mean, the current ones that 80 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:38,900 it's hardly any point to worry about the others. 81 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,300 How do you go about investigating a UFO report? 82 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:43,900 A, you get a report of a sighting. 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,100 The you if it sounds reasonable to you dear? 84 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,400 Then contact the people and do an in-depth interview with them. 85 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,700 Oh not only the people, but a lot of peripheral material, we 86 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:58,000 have an outgoing W line and we have a full-time paid 87 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,600 investigator and as calls come In and we get through our police 88 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,700 hotline, we get several calls a day. 89 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:08,600 Certainly, he then contacts not only the original Witnesses, but 90 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,800 the police departments in that area. 91 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:16,300 The FAA, the weather bureau NORAD radar installations. 92 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:18,500 In other words, he does everything he can to break it 93 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:21,700 down into a normal thing. We say, who we talking about? 94 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,900 I'm talking about are paid investigator, mr. 95 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:25,900 Allen, Henry. Who is the chap? 96 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:28,400 Who does a very fine job in tracking down? 97 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,200 And then of course, we have a quorum Vestigators around the 98 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:37,800 country who so we can enlist on a voluntary volunteer basis. 99 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,700 There's some that are just so ridiculous and seemed so 100 00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:44,900 unlikely to be anything worthwhile she just simply on 101 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:47,400 the after the initial evidence you don't bother investigating 102 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,800 him any further. Well it's the ones that are 103 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,500 unlikely, the strange ones are the ones we really find. 104 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:55,100 We have to investigate the ones that we don't have to 105 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:59,200 investigate are so typical. For instance, we will get 106 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:04,700 stories of That are generated by these advertising planes. 107 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,600 You know the planes that have these rotating Marquee lights 108 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,900 from a distance. Those look like a rotating disk 109 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:14,800 but we we can spot them and mr. Henry has the phone numbers is, 110 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,900 I'm 70 airplane, advertising companies. 111 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:20,800 And all we do is call those places and ask them. 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,000 Did you have a plane at that point at that time? 113 00:06:23,700 --> 00:06:27,000 I would we do in this the publication you have on your 114 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,900 elbow there, the international UFO reporter each month we 115 00:06:29,900 --> 00:06:31,300 publish. If you take a look at the back 116 00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:34,000 page each Each month. We publish a map of the United 117 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,000 States and which we plot all the cases that have come to our 118 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,400 attention. Those that we can solve. 119 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:43,000 We put in as we plot as dots. Those are, we can't solve we 120 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,100 plot as stars. Of course, it's the stars were 121 00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:48,400 interested in, but you can see also that the dots far outnumber 122 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,200 the Stars. The people simply are not aware 123 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,300 of the number of purely normal things that a person can see, in 124 00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:56,800 the sky. Now, what's an ifo? 125 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,900 The dots are ifos. Those are identified flying 126 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:02,600 objects, can you've got a looking in the It looks as 127 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,300 though there were three or four identified flying objects 128 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:09,600 spotted in the Detroit area. Or I'm sure each month now this 129 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,900 I think maybe I don't want to mention this several times may 130 00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:18,100 be a good starter right now. You started out with the 131 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,000 introductory music from Close Encounters which Title by the 132 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,100 way was my title. I call this the 18 million 133 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:29,300 dollar movie with a thousand dollar title because that's all 134 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:30,600 I got for the title. Let's go. 135 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,100 Describe this to me on the phone month ago or so, well, actually 136 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:38,000 three weeks ago but let's let's do it again. 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,600 Let's let's go back to the beginning, what does a close 138 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:48,100 encounter mean, okay? Close encounter is citing that 139 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:51,000 is closed and buy clothes. I mean, within a few hundred 140 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 feet, less than 500 feet. Generally, other words there 141 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,800 should be little chance of misidentifying it with a 142 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,600 Venusaur twinkling star. I mean, it's close by Okay. 143 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,800 And they I divided them purposely into three kinds 144 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,000 Close, Encounters of the first kind, the second kind of Third 145 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,500 Kind. The first kind is closed, but 146 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:12,500 nothing really happens. Outside of the fact that people 147 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:17,800 get frightened and it's quite an experience for them and Close. 148 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,500 Encounters of the second kind. Are those in which some sort of 149 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:22,800 physical residue, not a part of the UFO. 150 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,300 We still don't have a front bumper from a few F or anything 151 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:30,800 like that but we do have hundreds of cases. 152 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,400 And I mean words of cases in which at the precise spot where 153 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,700 the UFO was seen, there is a burnt ring or holes in the 154 00:08:40,700 --> 00:08:44,200 ground that obviously, or obviously don't seem to be 155 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,900 coming from anything else. Broken tree, branches animals 156 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:50,500 affected animals affected, how so. 157 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:55,800 Well, they'll get tremendously panicky cattle. 158 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,000 Stampede for instance. A horses were raised a fuss in 159 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,200 the barn and we've had cases of Workhorse dogs. 160 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:04,300 Early barking. That's, that's not terribly 161 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:07,300 exciting, but we've had cases of of the bull. 162 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:10,700 For instance, there was tethered by to an iron Rod through its 163 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:14,000 nose and got so frightened about the iron rod in half. 164 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,200 So that I'd say, is an animal effect, or an effect on the 165 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,700 animal. And we had that the center for 166 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:23,100 UFO studies. We have now published a catalog 167 00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:27,300 of some 800 of 1,100 now of such cases. 168 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:33,100 Okay, this UFO, reporter, this monthly That you release for a 169 00:09:33,108 --> 00:09:35,900 dollar will get to in just a few minutes. 170 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,600 I want to talk to you though, about the much, celebrated 171 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:42,600 release of information by the Air Force for years. 172 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,000 The Air Force, kept the lid, on all this UFO information in 173 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,700 People, magazine and August 1976, and a big article about 174 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,400 you. You said the Air Force will open 175 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,900 its UFO files and it will make juicy reading. 176 00:09:58,500 --> 00:10:00,800 Well, that's a year and a half ago. 177 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,200 Nothing started. He has come up the President, 178 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,700 Carter indicated, or at least US News and World Report magazine 179 00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:12,000 indicated that President. Carter this year would make some 180 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,000 sort of announcement about UFOs. Nothing. 181 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,400 There's always been an awful lot of smoke but no fire, what is 182 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,600 it? Well, the only only solid thing 183 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,600 that's come out of that. CU President Carter asked NASA 184 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,500 to undertake a study of UFOs and they very politely refused, and 185 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:30,600 they had good reasons, but I would like to talk about those 186 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,300 later. The Air Force did the National 187 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:39,700 Archives did release the files of Project Blue Book on which I 188 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,600 was Consulting for a good many years. 189 00:10:42,300 --> 00:10:46,300 And that is Incorporated in my new book, The, which is very 190 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:48,600 modestly called the hynek UFO report. 191 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:53,600 What I do there is I think that does many of those do my juicy 192 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,400 reading. Juicy, not in the usual 193 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:01,200 newsstand sense, but you see in the sense that it shows how they 194 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,700 are formed, Horse really bungled, many of the cases and 195 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:05,900 there. Did they very real job of 196 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:09,500 keeping cases from the public? They why? 197 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,300 Why would they do that? Largely because they had were 198 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,100 operating under a very strong recommendation of this from the 199 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:21,900 CIA which convened a panel of special town in 1953 called the 200 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:24,400 Robertson panel and which I was an associate member. 201 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,900 Incidentally, the CIA was not frightened of UFOs. 202 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:31,500 They were frightened of UFO reports. 203 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,700 They were afraid that the public might panic, and at that time, 204 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:37,000 particularly, they were terribly concerned about subversive 205 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,900 elements in the country and they thought that these, these 206 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:43,900 subversive elements, a communist might use the whole UFO 207 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:47,900 phenomenon, UFO clubs and UFO organizations as fronts for 208 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:51,400 subversive activities. And so they strongly recommend 209 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,600 that the Air Force to everything. 210 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,400 You can could to debunk the situation, you were one of the 211 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,700 major. I was one of the major 212 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:00,800 debunkers. I mean, because I thought that 213 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,900 the whole thing Was a lot of junk if you change your mind. 214 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,400 Yes, I agree. Absolutely significant the 215 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,900 otherwise I wouldn't be heading up the center for UFO studies. 216 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:11,600 Do you believe that many of these UFO reports are? 217 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,800 Not only real, but that are extraterrestrial. 218 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,700 E directed. There are three basic theories 219 00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:21,200 of the UFO today. Won the first, of course, is 220 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,500 that. It is complete nonsense. 221 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,500 Second is that they are extraterrestrial vehicles and 222 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:31,400 the third is that they really represent something from another 223 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,100 dimension of parallel reality. There may be four or five others 224 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,600 that I don't know about. Oh, there are some fans for 225 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,100 one's very fanciful. Indeed, all of these are 226 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,400 fanciful, except the first one I think is fanciful to the. 227 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,600 There's some people who speak of our future coming back to look 228 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:53,300 at us and things. That would certainly be sure. 229 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Sheer science fiction but it sounds like science fiction. 230 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,000 Did you can you even buy the concept of that our future 231 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,100 coming back? Beloved us? 232 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,100 I can't time machine stuff. No, no I can't. 233 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,700 Who are they for what's the parallel reality? 234 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:12,500 Well, that's an intriguing concept and it shouldn't bother 235 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:16,400 us so much because good Heavens. I don't know which particular 236 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:17,500 religion. You happen to be. 237 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:22,400 But all of our major religions and great philosophers and 238 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,100 Prophets of the past. Of all told us that the physical 239 00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:29,000 world is not the whole thing that there are other planes of 240 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,200 existence, where do angels exist, rinse, the Bible's full 241 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,600 of angels, for instance. Well, that would be an example 242 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:38,400 of a parallel reality or another more practical example is right 243 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,000 now, even though we're in a radio Studio, there are passing 244 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,800 through this room, television pictures. 245 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,100 Mmm. But we can't see, but it's it 246 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:49,200 represents a sort of a parallel reality. 247 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,500 Okay? Another dimension, put it that 248 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,700 way. There's nothing, nothing too 249 00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:57,200 fanciful about that. I mean. 250 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,400 Well, there's this there's nothing fanciful about it from 251 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,600 the sense that it's been discussed for a long time, but 252 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,000 when you stop and think about it, it doesn't make any sense at 253 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,000 all and two-dimensional thing something that has no depth. 254 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,500 That doesn't make sense to me. And no, I would it appear 255 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,300 suddenly? No, I'm not hard and, you know, 256 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:16,700 I'm not a two-dimensional but a four or five dimensional. 257 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,500 Why would it suddenly appear in hours in our three-dimensional 258 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,000 World, an interface? Have you ever read this little 259 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,200 scene? This delightful. 260 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:25,700 A book called flatland by a square. 261 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:28,500 Yes. And there you see brings it down 262 00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:31,100 by one dimension. It talks about creatures 263 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:35,200 triangles, octagons, hexagons and squares that all live on a 264 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,400 large sheet of paper. And the, the, I think it's the 265 00:14:38,408 --> 00:14:42,000 triangles have precedence over the squares and the winners 266 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,100 triangle meets the heck that square A square has got to give 267 00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:47,600 way. And one day a sphere comes to 268 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,600 visit them. You remember what happens to 269 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,600 these people that live in the two Dimensions, they first see 270 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,900 it as a point and enlarges it. Large Circle, and then it 271 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:57,000 disappears again. There's the sphere passes 272 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,000 through that sheet of paper, you see, and all you have to do and 273 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,400 I say all you have to do is just up that by one dimension instead 274 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,300 of a two-dimensional or three-dimensional and I four 275 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:13,300 dimensional thing would appear to us magically it would appear 276 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,300 by Magic much like the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland. 277 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,500 Remember the Cheshire Cat the Disappeared. 278 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:22,600 Leaving only its grin where it went into another dimension and 279 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,200 Marsh gas. Gosh you invented you coined the 280 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,300 word ten years ago or so I want to talk about that and get on 281 00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:31,000 the telephone to have some listeners have been very 282 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,400 patiently. Hanging on our number is eight 283 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,800 seven, five, four, four, seven, six, and dr. 284 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,100 Hynek will answer your calls. Okay, we'll see what you have to 285 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,000 say any Close Encounters. You might have had or would like 286 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 to ask. Do you have been holding on the 287 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,100 line very patiently? What is it? 288 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,200 You'd like to ask dr. Hynek yeah, for a good morning 289 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,500 dr. Hynek, good morning, yes. 290 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:56,500 I have two questions. And number one under the United 291 00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:01,900 States, Freedom of Information Act, how does a United States 292 00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:05,200 citizen obtain? A copy of the Project Blue Book. 293 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:10,800 All right, that's available. It's a little expensive, but 294 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,800 it's available in ninety four. Reels of microfilm that run you 295 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,700 about a thousand dollars if you want those. 296 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:20,800 However, that's precisely what I did. 297 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,300 I got those 90 for reals. And have extracted taken out 298 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:29,900 the, my say, the juicy parts and published them in the Dell 299 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:32,800 paperback. The hynek UFO report, which 300 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,300 ought to be available in in bookstores around here and 301 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,700 that's your easiest way of getting information. 302 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:45,200 If you want to spend $1000 and buyer, the 94 reels of microfilm 303 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:51,300 from the archives fine, but I it's a little on the expensive 304 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:57,800 side and my second question. If a group of men have designed 305 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:03,300 a prototype of a elect electronic magnetic, ion 306 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:08,200 propulsion engine, where would you recommend they go in order 307 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,300 to get a patent on this development? 308 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,800 Well you've you've introduced the term patent there. 309 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,900 I think it's always a wise idea to have one's ideas protected by 310 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:23,000 patents because the world is full of unscrupulous people. 311 00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:27,700 I would somehow I've never had a patent in my life but I've had 312 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:33,600 many copyrights but not patents. I expect a patent wire would be 313 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,200 the first person to see about that. 314 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,700 Well, apart from that, I would say I would certainly contact 315 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,800 some people in, NASA in Washington, say that you have 316 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,300 all those have this thing and they undoubtedly would be 317 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:48,000 interested. Now, they're basically very 318 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,100 honest group and I don't think they would steal your idea. 319 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,100 Okay. Thank you sir. 320 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,800 Thank you very much. Hello, you're on the radio here 321 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,100 on WJR with dr. J Allen hynek. 322 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,400 Yes. About three years ago and Air 323 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,300 Force and Air Force, installation on the East Coast 324 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:11,800 there appeared three unidentified flying objects over 325 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,200 the ocean. Now, the Air Force Security 326 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,100 people the base commander, all the people on that Air Force 327 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,100 Base people in the surrounding towns saw. 328 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:29,100 These objects. Franny call with me to an Air 329 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:35,600 Force Base for fighter and investigation, the people at the 330 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,200 fighter base that don't worry about it. 331 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,600 They watch these UFOs for about two hours. 332 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:47,400 There were three of them. They didn't know the size of 333 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,200 them. Or the distance that they were 334 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,700 away, because they were over water, and they had nothing to 335 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,700 judge them by. They stay there approximately 336 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,300 two hours and then took off, now, they took off at a speed 337 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,600 that must have been about five to ten times the speed of a 338 00:19:05,608 --> 00:19:08,700 Rocket taking off. Now, have you heard about that 339 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,500 and can you explain it? Well, first of all, I certainly 340 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,300 couldn't explain it other than calling you to UFO and every 341 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,800 let's always remember that the you and UFO simply means 342 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,900 unidentified, right. No, I had not heard any, we may 343 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,000 have, we have in our computerized Data Bank, some 344 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,900 60,000 reports, and we can get print out. 345 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:32,200 So that any, if you, for instance, wanted to know what 346 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,300 cases there were in your own neighborhood or in the yurt 347 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:38,000 County or something, the sort of your state, we can have a 348 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,100 printout of that but I don't have the computer bank with me 349 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:42,900 here. So I don't know that that 350 00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:45,800 particular case, you know, one thing we forgot. 351 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:49,900 JP is we forgot. In re talking about the UFO 352 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:52,200 reporter. We've got to give the address to 353 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,000 where people might get it and I'd be delighted to do that. 354 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,300 I'm sure you just want to ask me where one can get it. 355 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,300 That was, I was going to give it for you, but I don't see it on 356 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:03,000 here. 924, Chicago abydos, right? 357 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,500 Or just simply and annoy is sufficient where well enough 358 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:09,400 known their UFO reporter. Evanston Illinois will take. 359 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,000 The zip is 6020 to our, that's always important, unless I go 360 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,500 with, let me add this now, that is, it's going to cost you a 361 00:20:17,508 --> 00:20:22,100 dollar asset. Since the 1200 dollar, copy less 362 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:23,700 than a drink. We it sir. 363 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:25,700 Let me ask you this and we've got about want to get onto the 364 00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:27,400 weather and then we'll get back on the telephone. 365 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,700 But some folks did you did you witness these yellow gold? 366 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:34,600 Have our yes. Did you see these? 367 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,800 No fair, I did not personally see these, but I was informed by 368 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:46,200 very reliable sources people, if we had hoped this morning to get 369 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,400 some, some Direct first-hand. Ports of yeah. 370 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,000 And I think that's one thing we want to tell the listeners and 371 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,500 that it's their scientific duty to report things that they feel 372 00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:58,700 were really truly puzzling. Because we have very good 373 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:00,200 evidence at the center for UFO studies. 374 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,900 That 9 out of 10 people who have had a UFO experience have failed 375 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:07,600 to report it simply because they feared ridicule, right with 376 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,700 ridicule is a very real thing. It certainly is sir. 377 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,300 Thank you for calling. Thank you very much. 378 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:13,500 Okay, we'll be on the telephone and just a couple seconds. 379 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:17,300 We would like to believe me if you have feared ridicule and you 380 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:20,100 think you've seen something? Frightened you or startled, you 381 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,700 that you couldn't explain and didn't tell anyone about it. 382 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:26,900 The anonymity anonymity of the telephone and the radio is 383 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:28,400 yours. It's not an easy word to say 384 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,600 this, our damage to be 17 before 8:00 on, WJR with dr. 385 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,200 Honey. Yes, I called to say that. 386 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,200 I think I'm one of the nine out of 10 who never reported a 387 00:21:38,208 --> 00:21:43,400 sighting occurred about 10:30 at night on a pole. 388 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,300 Windy rainy spring night about a year ago and was proceeding. 389 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,700 On a highway and saw a huge red light up ahead. 390 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,500 And my first thought was that this was possibly the top light 391 00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,900 of new antenna or you know, tower that they put an 392 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:05,700 obstruction light on and was huge and as I proceeded North on 393 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,900 the highway, in The Light Came toward me, I could see that it 394 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:11,900 was not one life but two lights which had merged as one at a 395 00:22:11,908 --> 00:22:19,200 distance and Between the two lights, were possibly a faint, 396 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,100 green light, and then just maybe a hazy grey light on each side 397 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:25,800 of the green light in the center. 398 00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:30,200 And then, of course, the two red lights on the outer side, which 399 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,600 were huge by the way. And then to a white spot lights, 400 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,300 which were crisscrossing on each side of the red light. 401 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,600 Wow, that what a vivid description that is, well, I'm 402 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,300 glad you're reporting it now. Are you, did you do demonstrate 403 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,300 one thing with Traveler? Go call the escalation of 404 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,500 hypothesis. There are when people do finally 405 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:55,000 report, they will say, at first, I thought it was an accident on 406 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,500 the road and that the light was a flasher Beacon, then I 407 00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,700 realized it wasn't that and then I thought it was maybe an 408 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,400 aircraft coming in and so forth. People try to explain it to them 409 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,200 to themselves first and then they sort of driven up to the 410 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,500 wall and they did realize that they can't explain it. 411 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:12,000 Now, how did, how long did this whole thing? 412 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Last I'd like to ask you? Okay, I let me put it this way. 413 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,000 I turned off. Off I-75 onto a highway going 414 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,200 directly, north and south, my home, being exactly four miles 415 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,500 away. And I proceeded, probably half a 416 00:23:23,508 --> 00:23:26,600 mile when I saw the red light. Now, that's little hilly in this 417 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,500 area. And I saw the red light when I 418 00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:33,200 finally travel, maybe another mile and a half, which would be 419 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,900 two miles away from my home. I got a very good. 420 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:39,300 Look at the course it was dark about 10:30 at night, it was 421 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:43,800 bowling raining, you know, type of evening and I got a good look 422 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,900 at it, put it approximately a two To Crossroads. 423 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:56,500 And I lost my train of thought I would very much like to have you 424 00:23:56,500 --> 00:24:00,800 and any other listeners who was one of the nine out of ten to 425 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,900 write it up and reported, send it into the center for UFO 426 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:07,700 studies in Evanston. Illinois. 427 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,900 And we operate like as a clinic. You might say, we never divulge 428 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,100 the names of people who report to us. 429 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:17,700 So that your report is treated completely confidentially. 430 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,200 We release your name, only with your permission. 431 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,300 Mission. So you don't have to worry about 432 00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:23,200 that. Okay, dr. 433 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,300 Hynek, what of the claims made? When I had, when I told what I 434 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:30,700 had seen to France was that this was an advertising plane and, of 435 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:33,900 course, it seems ridiculous to me at 10:30 in the evening with 436 00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:36,800 a rainy boy night that an advertising plane would be out. 437 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,400 Well, 10:30 in the evening, wouldn't be bad, but they were 438 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,600 the Rainy blowing night and also they don't fly that. 439 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,900 How lower the clouds? Do you imagine know that? 440 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:47,800 I can't tell? You know, there was no fact but 441 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,200 of course obviously Stars are visible. 442 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,100 There's nothing in the sky and the red lights are so huge. 443 00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:54,600 I have looked constantly every night. 444 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,400 I go out to see if there's a petition was written large. 445 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:04,000 This it would be almost like a stop light up in the sky and how 446 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:05,800 I lost my train of thought went home. 447 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:08,100 How did it disappear? Well. 448 00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:10,700 Okay, then at that point, I was heading north on the highway to 449 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:15,000 go home and I continued the two miles and ran in the house. 450 00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:18,000 Got a pair of binoculars, jump back in the car, and went back 451 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,400 down the road, but it was gone. Gone. 452 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,300 Hmm and of course as I said, my first thought that it was the 453 00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:25,800 right on top of obstruction line on top of a new tower, but 454 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,000 having lived in the area for 10 years. 455 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,800 And I've since worked and obviously there's no power 456 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,900 there. How close do you think? 457 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,400 I know judging distances at night is very difficult. 458 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:40,000 But how close do you think it may have come to, okay? 459 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,700 A ten-point at the spot where I got a good look at it at 460 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:46,900 approximately like a quarter of a mile away, or at least it were 461 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,400 the two roads crossed their quarter of a mile away. that 462 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,800 doesn't make it a close encounter, but it makes it a 463 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:58,000 good nocturnal light on the basis of 7u, it doesn't strike 464 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,400 you as an advertising plan, doesn't know, not from what 465 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,300 you've said and the weather seems to argue against that 466 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:06,300 because the only thing was that I could see no form because it 467 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,200 was so dark. I could see where these huge 468 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,000 lights with the two spotlights criss-crossing at the outer end 469 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,800 of the red light. I don't suppose you lower the 470 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,900 window and listen, did you do I didn't cut? 471 00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:19,400 It was raining and blowing hurt. Yeah. 472 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:24,400 Well, please do send that report into the center for UFO studies 473 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,300 in Evanston. Illinois 6020 to Now there's 474 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,200 another one, if you have the time, which it can you hang on 475 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,600 for just a half a second. Okay, I've got to take care of a 476 00:26:32,608 --> 00:26:34,700 little business here, and we'll be back on the telephone. 477 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:36,400 We want to give some of the other folks have been hanging 478 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:37,500 out a chance to. Okay. 479 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:39,000 We would you mind calling us back a little later? 480 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:39,900 No problem. Thank you. 481 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,300 Madam. My I don't think you do want the 482 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,100 cloak of anonymity so just go ahead and tell dr. 483 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:48,100 Hynek your story, I don't mind giving the location. 484 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,500 This was on October, the second 1973. 485 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:56,100 I'm reading some notes that I'd written down a couple three 486 00:26:56,100 --> 00:27:01,000 years ago. It was a 10:15 p.m. and it was 487 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,300 about five miles. North of route to 70 on Route 23 488 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,100 in central Ohio. Now, I commute this route for 489 00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:14,700 like nine years and so it was, it was easy to spot, something 490 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:19,400 out of the ordinary. And there was a, I have written 491 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,500 here on oval white with a reddish, Gleek Green Glow to the 492 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,400 left of the road. It was about A quarter of a mile 493 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,000 off the road, probably 100 to 200 feet in the air, so it 494 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,800 wasn't very far up. It was a bright night so you 495 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,300 could see the shape of it against the sky. 496 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:44,500 It was probably about a 20 degree ellipse shape. 497 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,300 I written that it was probably about 40 feet across 30 to 40 498 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:53,700 feet across. I got pretty excited at the time 499 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,000 so I didn't stop but I did have the Phenomenon. 500 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,300 I guess you'd call it of having my automobile, quit running 501 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:06,600 properly. The lights dimmed in the motor 502 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,500 began to miss. Like, when it's running out of 503 00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,400 gas for just a few moments and then it started running again 504 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,000 fine and I pulled in the state highway patrol and I got a 505 00:28:16,008 --> 00:28:19,300 patrolman out and we both looked at it and I asked him if that 506 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:22,600 was something that he knew about, he said only from phone 507 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,900 calls coming in And I couldn't really understand why anything 508 00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:30,500 like that be around Ohio except that it occurred to me that this 509 00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:33,900 is Perkins Observatory. One of the big radio telescopes 510 00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:39,400 has would have been less than a half-mile from it beg. 511 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,300 Pardon. I used to work at Perkins 512 00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:43,600 Observatory for many years, so, now, the area. 513 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,800 I know the area very well. Yeah, it was right on the hill. 514 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,900 They called Kingman Hill me as I know that. 515 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:52,400 Well, it was just, I'd say, 300 yards to the left of the road 516 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:57,800 and not very high up. Well, no, I definitely want you 517 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,900 to send this report in, to me at the center for UFO studies in 518 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,100 not as Joe said, Chicago. But Evanston, Illinois, and the 519 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:14,100 zip is 6020 to okay, and your name will not be used without 520 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,500 your permission, so don't worry about that, okay? 521 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,700 This is a very interesting case. What is your technical 522 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:24,800 background of my, if I may ask, I'm not a technician, I'm a I'm 523 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,300 a commercial artist. Hey, you can draw this thing for 524 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:29,900 us when you come, how about a good sketch? 525 00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:31,600 I could do that. That would be great. 526 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,200 I like that. You know, your experience sounds 527 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,700 an awful lot. Like, one of the episodes from 528 00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,000 the movie, Close Encounters, then a doctor having yes it 529 00:29:40,008 --> 00:29:42,900 does. Except that was moving much more 530 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:46,700 his, this made, no movement. It just stayed stationary in the 531 00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:49,300 sky, like you'd be looking at a big big lady described like a 532 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:54,200 big tower, but there was nothing supporting it seemed to be some 533 00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:58,000 One, or was it a, just a light? It seemed to be solid, you know, 534 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000 but it hadn't enjoyed and glow to it. 535 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,300 That's the only good word. I can describe. 536 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,600 I thought at the beginning, it was a helicopter with blinking 537 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,000 lights, but when you got close enough, you could see that they 538 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,100 weren't blinking lights, they were undulating glowing areas of 539 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:18,800 light while he's not defined sort of moving and then it just 540 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,100 disappeared, you know, it didn't make any movement, it didn't go 541 00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:25,300 off quickly or anything. It just simply There any longer 542 00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:29,700 you said the policeman also sought yes, right? 543 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,400 They have no way of knowing his name but I did report it to the 544 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,900 state patrol and in it was the Delaware offer. 545 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000 We're going, we're taking reports then and writing them 546 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,400 down. At least they told me they were 547 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,400 young and they were getting other calls about it that every 548 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:46,400 time. Yeah, when I walked into the 549 00:30:46,408 --> 00:30:48,000 station because I happen to be right there. 550 00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,900 I used to live in Delaware for years so I know the area I see 551 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:54,200 well I had written down two or three others that alright. 552 00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,500 It down and send to you. I have a tape because I switch 553 00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:01,500 my tape recorder on the car. Looks very good and I couldn't 554 00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:04,200 locate it this morning because I really am not sure where I put 555 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,800 it, but I'd like to hear it again. 556 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,500 Myself, please do send me a copy of that too, would you? 557 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:12,500 Okay. I'll be glad to now David. 558 00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,200 The address again for both of you and our other listeners and 559 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,000 those who want to subscribe to the international UFO, reporter 560 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,800 is the center for UFO studies, Evanston Eva and is to you. 561 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,500 And Evan Illinois, 60, 20, 20, 20 to write. 562 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,200 Thank you very much for calling. Thank you. 563 00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,300 It's nice of you to do that, but from Delaware, Ohio, that 564 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,800 qualifies as a genuine close encounter, I would say so yes. 565 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,400 Hang on for a second, we'll take more calls with dr. 566 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,800 J Allen hynek and our UFO close encounter morning here on WJR. 567 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,300 Detroit, you know, an awful lot of people are coming out of the 568 00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:48,700 closet. These days, I don't know whether 569 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:51,400 it's because of the effect of the movie, A lot of people have 570 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,600 seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind. 571 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:58,700 Box office reports indicate that it will be one of the best seen 572 00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:03,200 most seen movies in history, but there was a surprise about that 573 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,900 dr. Hynek explain, something that 574 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,600 you thought might happen as a result of the success of the 575 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,300 movie. That hasn't, well, I thought 576 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,100 until it's sorted, many others that, you know, people who would 577 00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:16,800 never bother, looking up at the sky before would look up after 578 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,200 having seen that picture and they would make the same sort of 579 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,700 mistakes that have been made by thousands of people, they would 580 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:25,100 mistake Jupiter, and Venus and meteors, and Adelaide from God 581 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,900 knows what but that is not been happening. 582 00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:29,600 Oddly enough. What has been happening? 583 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,800 Is that the picture has apparently given people courage 584 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,900 to report things that they were reluctant to report before, and 585 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:40,800 cases that are several years old are coming out of the closet. 586 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,500 So to speak said Vivid, you welcome that kind of, Newser, is 587 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:46,400 old news. Just so difficult to follow up 588 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,600 on that, it's hardly worth while. 589 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,300 Oh, no. Those are. 590 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,800 Those are, those are the ones we really want because the current 591 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,700 ones are apt to be mistakes, but something that happened to a 592 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:58,200 person five years ago and they have remembered it vividly isn't 593 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,100 as apt to be a genuine case. Okay, in Pascagoula Mississippi 594 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,200 that rather famous case were two fishermen. 595 00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:12,200 Supposedly went under hypnotic, regression and talked about an 596 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,900 experience with a, with a visitor, a spaceship or 597 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:18,000 something. Tell us that story, and tell us 598 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,500 what you think about it. Well, that is the case that I 599 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:25,900 investigate I was there within Eight hours after it happened. 600 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,500 What did they say happened? Well the two men were Charlie 601 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,100 Hickson and Calvin Parker and what they said happened is that 602 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:34,600 they were fishing on the banks of the Pascagoula River. 603 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,400 And this I'll make a short story. 604 00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,600 His craft came down, we did not land as Harvard behind them and 605 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,300 to very, very odd looking creatures. 606 00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:47,600 Floated down, lifted and floated, Charlie Higson back, 607 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,300 aboard. And he told us that an 608 00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,500 instrument, that looks something like a big, I passed over him 609 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:55,700 several times. As though giving him a medical 610 00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,300 examination. And when I got down there, I 611 00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:00,300 found those men. Definitely in a State of Shock. 612 00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:04,300 They there's no question in my mind that they think this 613 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:07,000 happened that is to them. It was a very real experience 614 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,600 whether it was real in the, our sense of real, I honestly don't 615 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,500 know. But what is real philosophers 616 00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,400 have been worrying about that, for centuries to them, it was 617 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,100 real and they did, they could not undergo, hypnosis, the 618 00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:26,699 nurture harder try to hypnotize. Charlie Higson, but he resisted 619 00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:29,600 it and got terribly terribly upset. 620 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,400 So whether I'm not sure what that means. 621 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,199 But if this were the only case like that, I would dismiss it 622 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:39,000 out of hand, for we have dozens of cases similar to that. 623 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,000 Matter of fact, what is not known and maybe even you don't 624 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,000 know Joe that, that case, hit the Press. 625 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,400 But within a few weeks on either side of that, famous case on 626 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,000 October 11th, 1973 there were 70 Other cases of Close Encounters 627 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000 of the Third Kind, which were not reported to the Press at the 628 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,500 center for UFO studies. We've just published a report on 629 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:06,600 there called 1973 year of the humanoids and that's also 630 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,300 obtainable for the center for UFO studies. 631 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,700 Now the, the humanoids, these creatures that these people say, 632 00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:16,900 they say they saw. Do they look anything like the 633 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:19,700 the creatures as depicted in Close? 634 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:21,700 Encounters the movie. Oh, absolutely. 635 00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:23,000 In fact, that where you got it from? 636 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,100 That's where Steven Spielberg? From he when I became a 637 00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:30,900 technical advisor to Close Encounters of the Third Kind at 638 00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:33,200 first, I was not going to have anything to do with a Hollywood 639 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,900 movie because I felt that would really ruin my scientific 640 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:39,500 credibility. But when I discovered that 641 00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,800 Spielberg had really done his homework very well and had was 642 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,300 very knowledgeable. He based the appearance of the 643 00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:49,900 creatures pretty much on actual UFO reports. 644 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:53,300 Yeah, yes ma. Well they looked at they almost 645 00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:57,400 look like an embryo Ow. Yeah, well actually I would tend 646 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,100 to describe them know in general as overgrown, goblins are 647 00:36:02,107 --> 00:36:08,300 generally large head, spindly bodies and I am not making this 648 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:09,600 up. This is what's reported, you 649 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,200 see, and I'm acting here, largely. 650 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,300 Just as a reporter. Telling you, what? 651 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,100 What people tell me you were a great disbeliever. 652 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,600 I want to talk about that. And how much you've changed? 653 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,900 I met, dr. Hynek, in a minute here, it was 654 00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:25,600 his doing. He It was - gasps I want to find 655 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,700 out about that in just a second. You were sightings of something 656 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:30,900 UFO, sightings in the Ann Arbor area. 657 00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:34,200 Also Dexter and Dexter. And as I recall noodles, Dale 658 00:36:34,900 --> 00:36:37,300 and you came in, you were great to Bunker. 659 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,500 In those days, you were, you headed the investigation team 660 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,700 for the Air Force, in my right coming in to have a look. 661 00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:45,100 It was their consultant. Well, I had an investigation 662 00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:46,500 that immediate one. Yes, yeah. 663 00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:48,000 Well that's what I meant and you determined. 664 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,700 It was Marsh gas. How did you make that 665 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,100 determination? Oh boy. 666 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:55,500 Well the point is that At the press conference, which they 667 00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,800 tell me, was the largest in history that Detroit, Press 668 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,700 Club. At that time, I had said and I 669 00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:04,500 have it on record that if we limited our attention to the 670 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:08,700 faint light, that the girls at Hillsdale had seen in the swampy 671 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:12,400 area, the Arboretum that those could be explained as swamp gas, 672 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,300 but what happened here is that the reporters apparently needed 673 00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:20,300 a buzzword and swamp gas was it. And soon as I mentioned that, 674 00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:22,700 they underlined it in their press release and dashed off to 675 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:25,300 the telephones and Couldn't say hold on boy. 676 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:31,700 That's not the whole story swamp gas was it and I believed it and 677 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,200 it is a matter of fact the faint light still could have been 678 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,000 explained as swamp grass but not them. 679 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,100 Nothing major side he's not the large things that were reported. 680 00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:44,800 Okay, did the Air Force ever? Tell you, you look dr. 681 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,200 Hynek we don't want to cause any Panic. 682 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,100 Explain this away as natural phenomena. 683 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,800 Well, did they say that to you either directly or /? 684 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,000 Insinuation by insinuation? Yes, but not directly, they 685 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,900 never gave me any specific orders, but it was quite clear 686 00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:06,300 that they wanted me to do the best. 687 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:08,500 I could to explain it as a natural thing. 688 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,300 Yeah. And I tried but today I would do 689 00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:14,500 it quite differently today. I would say, look, let's you 690 00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:18,300 can't conduct a scientific investigation in this excitable 691 00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:22,300 atmosphere with reporters buzzing around and you Don't get 692 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:27,300 a halfway thought in edgewise. And so, I would say we would 693 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,900 have to get together data studied carefully, and come out 694 00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:37,700 with some sort of a Jelly's preliminary idea in a few days 695 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:40,200 or a week but not on the spur of the moment. 696 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:43,200 How many books have you written on the subject of UFOs? 697 00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:47,000 Well, the first one was the UFO experience which was the in 698 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,600 which I coined the phrase Close Encounter of the Third Kind. 699 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:53,800 And then this most recent one, the hynek UFO report but didn't 700 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,500 have another one with jointly with Jacques de molay, called 701 00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:01,300 the edge of reality, but behind the UFO report, even though the 702 00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:04,500 title is not a very modest one eye, Was a Publisher's idea. 703 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:09,100 By the way, is an Exposé really of the Air Force handling, 704 00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:13,800 because I was there for those many years and I saw the way in 705 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,400 which the Air Force the Cavalier way in which therefore has 706 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,100 handled this whole problem, did they just out of hand, cover it 707 00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:25,100 up, just to, but without any investigation at all know, they 708 00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:28,000 would make investigations. And as I point out in the book, 709 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,400 The more certain they were that it was a natural thing. 710 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,400 The more they would investigate, they, they went out. 711 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,800 And they would read from any that comes in from the air, and 712 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,300 it's a little difficult little face losing to say, look, 713 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:46,700 there's something in our atmosphere that we don't 714 00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:49,300 understand. It's much easier to say, whether 715 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:51,600 it's a, we do understand it Perfectly Natural. 716 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,100 It's a swamp gas. Its aircraft and so forth. 717 00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:58,600 Was this on a directive? From some power on high, the 718 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,500 secretary of the Air Force or the president of the United 719 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:05,100 States, or was this you You think that this responsibility 720 00:40:05,100 --> 00:40:09,600 was assumed by some generals? Well, the Project Blue Book and 721 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,200 the director of the people who ran it had a job to do and they 722 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:18,200 were acting pretty much under the directive or direct 723 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:23,800 recommendation of the CIA convened Robertson panel, which 724 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,100 was only the air for the CIA was not afraid of UFOs. 725 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,000 They were afraid of UFO reports in the things that you reports 726 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,300 might do. Two people at that time, this 727 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:42,200 whole question of subversion was much more in the air than it is 728 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,200 today. And they were afraid that the 729 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,700 various UFO flying saucer clubs and organizations might be used 730 00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:50,900 as fronts for subversive activity. 731 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,700 Also, another thing that was very important in July of 1950 732 00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:58,400 to for several days, the military wires became literally 733 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,800 clogged with UFO reports and the CIA was afraid that if Some 734 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,700 Nation wanted to launch another Pearl Harbor. 735 00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:09,000 All they need to do would be to get their agents to spawn a 736 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,700 whole bunch of false, UFO reports, clog the military wires 737 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,300 and confuse the situation so they see how it was quite 738 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,500 seriously. Concerned. 739 00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:22,100 Not so much with UFOs but with UFO reports, motivated dude, 740 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,800 with good reason. Good reason, Buncombe. 741 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,800 Oh, yes, yes. And they give their director 742 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,200 with their recommendation, I should say was a very strong one 743 00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:31,700 that the Air Force do everything in its power to debunk. 744 00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,900 Play down a hole. Work sort of thing and you were 745 00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:36,300 part of that debunk. I was part of that. 746 00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:38,000 You have you ever seen a flying saucer? 747 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,000 I've never had a close encounter but on two occasions I have seen 748 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,700 things which I definitely could not explain and have not been 749 00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:47,600 able to explain to this day as an astronomy Professor. 750 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,200 It's unlikely that they were celestial bodies. 751 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,400 Now they're well, that's very true. 752 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,300 I mean, that's one thing I do believe I'm competent to 753 00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:58,400 identified although it's surprising how many people are 754 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,700 not. That is people are still puzzled 755 00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:03,500 very much by a very bright meteor, even train. 756 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,600 The pilots were we had cases in which commercial pilots have 757 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,900 swerved their airplanes thinking that they were on a head-on 758 00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:10,500 collision. Course with something to turned 759 00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:13,300 out to be a very bright meteor 100 miles away or so. 760 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,200 And we're gonna get on the telephone again and encourage 761 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,000 folks, if they would like to talk to dr. 762 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,200 Hynek that we would like to talk to people who have had to use 763 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,900 his coined phrase, close encounters and we will offer you 764 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:30,200 and eliminate on the telephone number is eight seven, five, 765 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,400 four, four, seven, six, several people on the line. 766 00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:34,900 Have you had a close encounter Yes, I have. 767 00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:39,800 I have some photographs that I took in 1974 of UFO and I've 768 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,300 never known what agency to get in contact with that might be 769 00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:46,500 interested in them. Well, you got one now and I'm 770 00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,800 very anxious to see the photographs please do, send 771 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,400 them, but don't send the original negatives. 772 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,600 I don't want to be responsible for those but hang on to those, 773 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,600 but let me see The Prince and in if we want to have been 774 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,000 investigated further, then I would make arrangements, special 775 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,600 arrangements to see the original negatives. 776 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,300 Okay? Or should I send them to the 777 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:11,800 Center for UFO studies? 924 Chicago Avenue Evanston, 778 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,600 Illinois. And that's the zip is 60 20 to 779 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,300 60 2002. Okay. 780 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,600 Okay. Yes. 781 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,000 We're on the radio here on WJR, dr. 782 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,700 Hynek is listening to you. Go ahead. 783 00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:25,500 Thank you. Are dr. 784 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,300 Hynek I ever was in high school and 47 when this phenomenon for 785 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:32,000 starting our radar and ever since then the things I've 786 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,200 lectured on. And what have you? 787 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,600 I want to ask you a couple of things, I realized the other 788 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,700 people on the line. So get off as quickly as 789 00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,500 possible. I want to ask you about the flap 790 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:43,300 in Washington DC in 1952 and for six hours, a these things are 791 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,200 over the Pentagon and then gave them a fit down there on. 792 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,000 Ask you about the possibility that in Wright-Patterson Air 793 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,000 Force Base in Ohio that they do have, I've heard the remains of 794 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,200 an occupant of a UFO. When you talk about the pictures 795 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,700 that we don't have that the Air Force probably does have when 796 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:02,400 they were asked to put cameras in the nose of their Jets. 797 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,100 When they chase these things of the Couldn't catch him. 798 00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:06,400 Lisa can take pictures of them could you comment on any of 799 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,600 these things? Yeah, I'm very quickly on all of 800 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,200 them. The 1952 flap has never been 801 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,100 adequately explained, they've tried to call it atmospheric and 802 00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,000 version, but the inversion was not very strong at that time. 803 00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:24,100 And so it is still unexplained as far as the remains or 804 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:27,400 cadavers of UFO occupants at right field. 805 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,900 I think that is just a story we've never had any. 806 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,500 I've never found any evidence that that was And of course, if 807 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:38,100 any one of our listeners has that information that could be 808 00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:40,300 authenticated, I would be delighted to know about it. 809 00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:42,800 Think that story had great currency a couple of years ago 810 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,300 and it's it pops up every once in a while right now. 811 00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:50,300 As far as the aircraft Air Force photographs I too have heard 812 00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:55,400 that I've been told by military Pilots that when they got back 813 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,600 to base their gun camera, photos were confiscated and so forth 814 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:03,900 but whenever I ask these people to go to a notary public and And 815 00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:06,400 the swear out an affidavit that this is true. 816 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,700 They say, Well, they're remember the reserves or they can't 817 00:45:10,700 --> 00:45:12,700 they're under oath or something of the sort. 818 00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:15,800 So, as far as I'm concerned, those Still Remains stories. 819 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,900 I unauthenticated undocumented stories every day. 820 00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:26,800 They had our Air Force report, PR 200 days, to which said that 821 00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:29,700 Air Force pilots, who had seen anything? 822 00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:32,100 If they had talked to anyone, they didn't maintain secrecy. 823 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,000 They would be such that it In prison are fine or two thousand 824 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,900 dollars, you worry about that? Moving gesture that was in Gina 825 00:45:37,900 --> 00:45:41,100 put 1460, which is still in effect. 826 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:44,000 It is so that a military pilot must report. 827 00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:47,000 Any unidentified think, of course, their Definition of 828 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,400 unidentified is very, very Broad New Russian, aircraft would be 829 00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:56,000 considered unidentified, they must report and it is quite 830 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,900 true. They're still under considerable 831 00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:03,400 threat of a fine. If they say they're allowed to 832 00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:06,500 To talk about it. If it is identified, there are 833 00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:09,600 not allowed to talk about as long as it remains unidentified. 834 00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:12,800 I want to point out that the movie was just tremendous from 835 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,700 one who has been reading for years on this. 836 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,000 I didn't see it. As science fiction did such a 837 00:46:17,008 --> 00:46:20,300 good job on depicting situation that I had read about four years 838 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,800 one. Last question, sir, the seems to 839 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,600 me that these things appear so often that their appearances can 840 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,300 almost be predictable. Would you say that's okay, well, 841 00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:31,700 we're trying. We are for were running computer 842 00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:36,800 studies now on As soon as it appears that possibly will be 843 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,300 able to predict waves of UFO sightings in the future, but 844 00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,300 it's still too early to say hi. There is certainly an unusual 845 00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:45,500 interest in our nuclear installations are care about 846 00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:49,500 these things, you know, let me let me have a Perfectly Natural, 847 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,400 explanation is the military installation, the nuclear X 848 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,100 installations, especially of course, have 24-hour guards, and 849 00:46:56,100 --> 00:46:59,300 they're out there watching and they would be more apt to see 850 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:02,100 something. When it happens, of course, 851 00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:05,400 another explanation is that They're under surveillance but I 852 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,700 don't know, dr. Webber. 853 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,800 What are your thoughts is to if indeed these things are 854 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,900 extraterrestrial e directed, why don't they land make themselves 855 00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:16,900 known? Well, that's one of the 856 00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:20,300 questions that's the situation. They don't why. 857 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,600 Well, I suppose I could turn the question around and say why 858 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,600 should they? I don't know. 859 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,600 It's you might just we'll ask why do kangaroos jump? 860 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,800 They do. See The hardest thing to get 861 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,700 across in this whole field is that this is a research problem. 862 00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:41,100 We have lots of questions and very few answers. 863 00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:45,300 I might turn around asking why don't we have the cure for 864 00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:46,700 cancer yet? We've been studying it for a 865 00:47:46,707 --> 00:47:50,700 long while but it's like so many people, see these things. 866 00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:53,800 It just it just makes logical sense to say well they 867 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,000 apparently mean no harm because so far as we know, they have 868 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,500 caused none or at least very little, they are obviously 869 00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:05,900 curious or they wouldn't be Keeping us under surveillance or 870 00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:08,600 having a look, why don't they land and make themselves known? 871 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,200 That's, that's a great question. I wish I knew the answer hang 872 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,600 out for a second doctor dr. J Allen hynek with us. 873 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,400 So almost 8:45 on a snowy, Friday morning in Detroit. 874 00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:23,300 Warming you up with talk of you after that, Mel wanted to know 875 00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:27,700 about that guy. Well, that's a very good example 876 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:29,800 of a close encounter of the first kind. 877 00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:33,000 It was very close but nothing really happened. 878 00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:38,400 Young Navy man was walking home from his girlfriend's in near 879 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,900 Exeter New Hampshire. When this brilliantly 880 00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:45,900 illuminated object flashing lights and so forth, swoop down 881 00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:48,900 on him and he swooped into the ditch and getaways 882 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,900 panic-stricken. He then receded, he dashed to 883 00:48:52,908 --> 00:48:55,700 the nearest Farmhouse, pounded, on the door, woke the people, 884 00:48:55,700 --> 00:48:58,300 they call the police, the police came out and there was nothing. 885 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,700 I was just at the police were about to leave the object Rose 886 00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:03,900 from behind the trees and both policeman. 887 00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,600 Saw it without any question and their life was made miserable 888 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,700 for them by the Air Force, which refused to believe. 889 00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:14,100 If anything they had said and in my books matter of fact I have 890 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,200 an account in exchange those letters that went between the 891 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,800 two policemen and the Air Force and it was really 892 00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,300 Irreprehensible the manner in which the Air Force tried to 893 00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,600 smear the reputation of these policemen calling them, 894 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,400 essentially deluded in the so forth. 895 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,800 GOI with why would the Air Force again? 896 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,000 Go to Such Great Lengths to suppress all of this. 897 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,200 They were just under the idea, they adopted the theorem you 898 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,800 might say that, it can't be there for. 899 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,300 It isn't just simply assumed that these things had to be 900 00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,100 natural. As I assumed at one time that 901 00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:51,200 obviously, it had to be loud. Nonsense, but you never went 902 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,700 into reputation destroying. However, know that is true, I 903 00:49:53,707 --> 00:49:57,200 would never do that. You know, getting UFO 904 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,800 information. First of all reporting it is a 905 00:49:59,808 --> 00:50:03,100 problem of one has to make a an emotional decision, an 906 00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:05,200 intellectual decision actually, whether they want to get 907 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,500 involved or not and as you point out, nine out of ten, they 908 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,100 decide they do not for fear of ridicule and other reasons to in 909 00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:14,900 order to get some good F. UFO information, do you what do 910 00:50:14,908 --> 00:50:17,300 you recommend a subscription? Of course, I guess to you. 911 00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:19,700 Well, yes I think but let me let me let me. 912 00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:23,400 Back up on that little bit even before the picture Close 913 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,400 Encounters of the Third Kind became so popular. 914 00:50:25,700 --> 00:50:27,500 We'd been getting at the center for UFO studies. 915 00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:30,800 Many many requests from students from various parts of the 916 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,000 country saying that they were doing a term paper and UFOs or 917 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,900 that they were having class discussion. 918 00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:39,200 And just now with the picture, I can imagine that next few months 919 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,100 classrooms all over the country are going to be having UFO 920 00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:47,900 discussions and I think it is really bad that those kids have 921 00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:51,800 to turn to the entire blood Sent to the sleazy magazines and new 922 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,500 stands for their information. They ought to be able to get 923 00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:57,700 especially School, libraries ought to have access to 924 00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:02,600 responsible information and that can be obtained through the 925 00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:06,400 international UFO reporter. Which is a monthly newsletter, 926 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,000 which I edit and which, therefore, I stand back of 927 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,400 anything that's in it. Each month. 928 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,600 For instance, we publish a map of all the cases that have been 929 00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:19,100 reported to us. Those that we can explain we 930 00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:20,900 plot his dog. Ott's those that we can't 931 00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:27,700 explain, we plot a stars and the interesting ones are summarized 932 00:51:27,700 --> 00:51:31,900 in the in the UFO reporter and that's a subscription for that 933 00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:36,700 is $12 a year dollar a month and it is obtainable at the offices 934 00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:42,100 of the center for UFO studies at 924, Chicago, Avenue, Evanston, 935 00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:45,300 Illinois, 6020 to our. It's a matter of fact, just 936 00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:50,900 simply Center for UFO studies, Evanston Illinois, 60 202 is 937 00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:52,900 would suffice, okay, how many people do you have it? 938 00:51:52,900 --> 00:51:56,800 The center for UFO studies? Working about 20 but most of 939 00:51:56,808 --> 00:52:02,200 them are volunteers because the center is funded entirely by 940 00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:04,600 contribution popular contributions voluntary 941 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,900 contributions, which, by the way, I want to hasten to point 942 00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:11,400 out are tax deductible. This is not a UFO club or age is 943 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,900 not supported by the government. Incidentally, if we're being 944 00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:18,100 monitored right now, by anybody up there in any kind of a 945 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,000 vehicle, Cereal or otherwise, and you feel like you would like 946 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,600 to contact us, please do call collect area, KOA query, 1387 947 00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:33,300 544. 40K, you're on the air with strip about 10 years ago, I was 948 00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:38,200 driving from Ann Arbor to Jackson at dusk and I saw a 949 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,800 bright light from a distance, and I thought it was a barn fire 950 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,100 because it was out in the country. 951 00:52:43,700 --> 00:52:47,000 And as I got closer, I realized that it wasn't. 952 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,000 But I still obviously thought of other things that it could Could 953 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,600 be and it was important enough that all the traffic was stopped 954 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,900 and I-94 and pulled off on the side of the road. 955 00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,700 Well, I was in a convertible and I was also late for a play. 956 00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:03,800 I was going to. So I kept going, I was off of 957 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,500 frightened and so I kept going and but it has bothered me 958 00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:11,400 enough for 10 years. That I've tried to duplicate it 959 00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,200 in my, you try to say something that would be similar and I 960 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,200 never could. And at that time, I did call the 961 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,600 Sheriff's Office and he said, We don't want any reports and we 962 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,300 don't want to hear anything about it and nothing happened 963 00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:27,900 away and never went back. And I said the traffic was 964 00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:31,800 stopped there must have been 60 or 70 cars stopped. 965 00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:34,800 He said lady, you didn't see it, you know, you were really 966 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:39,600 dreamy, but it was a like, a theater Marquee in. 967 00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:43,900 I mean, the only thing I could in my mind think that it would 968 00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:46,600 like a theater Marquee. But it, but about a three-story 969 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,600 High building and it was large, but the lights were blinking. 970 00:53:49,700 --> 00:53:54,000 In random fashion and beneath it, I thought that it was trying 971 00:53:54,100 --> 00:53:57,500 to repair a radio antenna or something, because there was 972 00:53:57,500 --> 00:54:00,400 this long thing with red lights on it, like a radio antenna, was 973 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:01,900 it station area? Was it moving? 974 00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:04,600 It was just hovering and there was no sound at all. 975 00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:09,400 And I was about 60 Acres away as it was across the field and in 976 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,100 between, there was a fence and it was I don't think there was 977 00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:18,100 any noise, but my car was going, but it certainly wasn't noise 978 00:54:18,100 --> 00:54:21,100 like you would think to Something that big in the air. 979 00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:23,000 Are you any good at sketching things? 980 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,500 I'm not, but I am a trained Observer. 981 00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:28,100 I have directed and produced television, as a matter of time. 982 00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:30,400 So, I'm quite aware of visual operation. 983 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,000 I was wondering if you could sketch me or to give me a, give 984 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,200 me a, a verbal description written description. 985 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,800 That is and I will send it to you, but I wondered. 986 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,200 If anybody else has ever talked and produces many cars were 987 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,200 stopped. If this is possible that 988 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,600 somebody listening to us right now, is one of those people that 989 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,400 were and it was never in the paper. 990 00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:52,200 It was never reported but I did go back to school. 991 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,000 I was teaching at that time and I did go back to school and I 992 00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:00,200 said to one of the teachers I have, you know, something very 993 00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:04,000 funny has happened to me and I have to share with somebody. 994 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,800 I've taken my children out and try to find this place and 995 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,000 there's no radio antenna. Now, that, you know, it just 996 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,600 doesn't disappear overnight and wait. 997 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,200 I just wanted some sort of physical evidence to something 998 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,200 have been there. So, I said to the teacher, I'm 999 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,000 going to say something to you, but I don't want you to know And 1000 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,600 and see said they say, enter has been also. 1001 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,100 Another teacher had experienced something similar at a 1002 00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:31,900 children's camp in Maine. Something had come down to the 1003 00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:33,800 hill while the children were on the hill. 1004 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,400 So I think it's, I think there are a lot of people around here. 1005 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,900 Have had experiences allowed very educated people but because 1006 00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:42,500 I didn't want to lose my job and say they want to lose this. 1007 00:55:42,700 --> 00:55:46,000 I think you raised a very, very important point there and the 1008 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,400 movie now is making it more socially acceptable to talk 1009 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,300 about. Out, UFOs UFOs are no longer a 1010 00:55:51,308 --> 00:55:56,000 dirty word. And we are now getting cases at 1011 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,600 the center which are old 5 to 10 years. 1012 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,300 Old at feet, people have been reluctant to report and I would 1013 00:56:02,300 --> 00:56:04,500 like to point out to our listeners that I feel it is 1014 00:56:04,500 --> 00:56:09,800 their scientific duty to report such cases, because how can we 1015 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,100 ever solve this problem, if we don't have proper data to work 1016 00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:15,500 with, Okay? Thank you very much for calling 1017 00:56:16,100 --> 00:56:17,100 my doctor, honey. Thank you. 1018 00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:20,200 We're going to take a 15 minute break here and candy Learn 1019 00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:23,200 ranking. Skeptic you were a ranking 1020 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,100 Skipper. I certainly was the the fact 1021 00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:29,600 remains that UFO reports exist. They continue to come in from 1022 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:34,600 all over the world. And from many of them are come 1023 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:40,400 from very responsible persons. So either you give the these are 1024 00:56:40,408 --> 00:56:42,400 the fact that you can't controvert. 1025 00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:49,600 Have I been have I been misled or misinformed in thinking that 1026 00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:53,400 That there have been more UFO reports in the United States 1027 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,600 than in other foreign countries. We have a great, many of course 1028 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,000 simply because communication is so good, but Canada, for 1029 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,100 instance, there are more UFO sightings per capita in Canada 1030 00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:06,400 than there are in the United States. 1031 00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:08,600 What about some of the Western European countries? 1032 00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:11,100 Where we have reports now from? Well over 100 different 1033 00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:15,400 countries, but reporting and Communications are sometimes 1034 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,600 difficult to language difficulties for one thing 1035 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:22,000 governmental difficulties and others since Go to get reports 1036 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,600 from the Iron, Curtain Iron Curtain countries, for instance. 1037 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,200 Although we do they have the same sorts of things there that 1038 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,700 we have here. Okay. 1039 00:57:29,900 --> 00:57:31,200 So it's a report doctor headache. 1040 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,600 Like, I want to see a UFO, I've never seen one. 1041 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,400 I've never even seen any bright lights to be absolutely honest 1042 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,400 with you that I couldn't figure out almost instantly. 1043 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,700 When described as natural phenomena in Good Company, our 1044 00:57:43,700 --> 00:57:46,900 estimates is that only one out of every 40 or so people 1045 00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:49,500 actually ever have a UFO experience suppose. 1046 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,600 When the snow finally does stop in the weather clears up and 1047 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,400 it's a clear night and I'm driving home or I'm sitting in 1048 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,800 my backyard and I suddenly see one of these things. 1049 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,700 What do we do? The very first thing you should 1050 00:58:00,700 --> 00:58:04,800 do is get Witnesses for your own protection because then you can 1051 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,500 say, well look, he saw a 2 or she saw a to but from the 1052 00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:11,400 scientific standpoint, it's extremely important to have 1053 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,400 witnesses because then when we go to investigate it, we can get 1054 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,600 the accounts of the individuals separately. 1055 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,600 And that's what we always do. We never get Them together and 1056 00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:25,400 we interrogate people independently and but you see I 1057 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:31,100 am going to be very reluctant to call any police, for example, to 1058 00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:35,300 call officials because I would be subject to Great ridicule, 1059 00:58:35,300 --> 00:58:40,000 and I would like to avoid that. Well, After you get your 1060 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,100 Witnesses, have your, you and have them separately. 1061 00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:47,500 Write a simple narrative account of what happened is just very 1062 00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:51,100 simple things and the time, the duration and then send it to the 1063 00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:54,200 Center for UFO studies in Evanston. 1064 00:58:54,200 --> 00:59:00,700 Illinois sin, is it the 6020 to and they're your, you have no 1065 00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:03,700 fear of ridicule whatsoever because we operate something, 1066 00:59:03,700 --> 00:59:07,400 like a medical clinic. Medical Clinic doesn't give a 1067 00:59:07,408 --> 00:59:10,200 names of its Patients Out. Things of that sort neither do 1068 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:15,400 we names are not used except without, they're not used except 1069 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:16,700 when we have permission to do it. 1070 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,900 Okay? So, what you're saying is you 1071 00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:23,700 don't necessarily have to report this to anyone in officialdom, 1072 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,800 that's right, okay? Send it to you and you act as a 1073 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:27,900 Clearinghouse for all these things. 1074 00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:30,700 I tell you, how can you possibly examine you and 20 people? 1075 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,300 All the thousands and thousands of narratives that you must get 1076 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,600 and enquiries. Well, it isn't difficult to. 1077 00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:44,300 Weed out the typical cases of sightings of meteors airplanes, 1078 00:59:44,300 --> 00:59:47,900 advertising planes. Balloon satellites. 1079 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,700 They fit a pattern and you can almost spot them almost 1080 00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:53,700 immediately to any trained. Investigator can spot those we 1081 00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:57,300 home in on the cases that are really and truly puzzling. 1082 00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,100 And we spent a lot of time investigating. 1083 00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:03,000 Those sure like to see one dr. Hynek Soju in it. 1084 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,400 What I'm going to talk to some people, some more people who 1085 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,600 have had Close Encounters on the telephone. 1086 01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:11,700 Own in just a minute. Can you hear me sir? 1087 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:13,900 Hello, yes? Yes. 1088 01:00:13,900 --> 01:00:15,600 Good morning. How are you frying? 1089 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,700 How are you don't? You're not at off for a minute. 1090 01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:19,900 Yeah, can we do for you? Well by golly. 1091 01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:23,500 I'd like to, first of all, the only encounter I had with a very 1092 01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:25,400 humorous one which wasn't an encounter. 1093 01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:29,100 I was driving along when I was 12 years old, with my dad coming 1094 01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:32,000 back from the doctor. And here was this at dusk, or 1095 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,900 just after dusk, here was this undulating object off in the 1096 01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:39,900 distance, just hovering. And my Dad pulled the car off 1097 01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:42,500 the road, he thought this was Preposterous, you know, in fact 1098 01:00:42,500 --> 01:00:47,300 he was frightened as a as we stood there, sat in the car and 1099 01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:51,300 watch this thing. My dad was never shaken in his 1100 01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:55,700 life by anything except this and then the thing turned around and 1101 01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:59,900 there was a beer advertisement it was a blimp that led me off 1102 01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:03,700 though at 12 years old to follow up reports. 1103 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,600 And as I was 17 or 18, I followed up. 1104 01:01:08,700 --> 01:01:12,800 Up the reports and went to UFO Society, meetings and pseudo 1105 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,800 religious meetings in this type of thing. 1106 01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:21,000 Few years ago, in fact, a year ago, I ran across the fellow who 1107 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,300 worked for the government of fellow. 1108 01:01:22,300 --> 01:01:26,900 I know very, very well and very credible last person in the 1109 01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:32,700 world that would come up with us really and he said that the when 1110 01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:35,900 we were orbiting Spaceman that they were buzzed by UFOs. 1111 01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:39,800 Is there any truth in this? Well, I've never been able to 1112 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,400 authenticate that I have spoken to three astronauts who have had 1113 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:51,000 UFO sightings Gordon Cooper, Jim mcdivitt and Deke Slayton. 1114 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,100 Only mcdivitt had his sighting in the in space. 1115 01:01:56,100 --> 01:01:59,100 The other two were here on solid Manuel. 1116 01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:03,700 Deke Slayton was in an aircraft. If it's difficult to call those 1117 01:02:03,700 --> 01:02:09,600 people diluted or liars, and but as Is anything seen on the way 1118 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,700 to the moon? No one has ever confessed that 1119 01:02:12,700 --> 01:02:15,700 to me at any rate. I see I was referring to in, 1120 01:02:15,700 --> 01:02:20,800 orbit around the Earth that have been Jim mcdivitt and there have 1121 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,600 been other reports, but I won't believe them. 1122 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,400 I don't accept them. Unless I've talked to the person 1123 01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:31,800 of personally and having one way or another authenticated it. 1124 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,000 Okay. And in this was a happy with me. 1125 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,700 I'm I'm a real skeptic a real agnostic. 1126 01:02:38,300 --> 01:02:44,200 When it comes to the backhand about 1957 or so, about the time 1127 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,500 Sputnik went up, I was on the mailing list for one of the 1128 01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:52,200 societies and I thought this was great fun, and I could see 1129 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,200 nothing based. In fact, years later, I went 1130 01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,900 through all these things before I threw them out, all these 1131 01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:00,200 tracks and pamphlets and alleged proof. 1132 01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:05,200 Do you know what year, the Van Allen belts were discovered Well 1133 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,800 let's see. It must have been well in the 1134 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,500 early early satellites so that must have been about 58 or 59. 1135 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,800 Okay I remember looking at one of these pictures of the earth 1136 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,500 that the society Society sent me and personally I thought they 1137 01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:25,700 were a bunch of crackpots but here was this beautiful line 1138 01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:28,300 drawing of Van Allen belts and that's about the only thing 1139 01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:31,200 credible I ever came up with that. 1140 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,500 I would have on taper as far as that there. 1141 01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:39,200 Being visiting us but the rest of it made no sense whatsoever. 1142 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,300 Gee, thank you for having us over here. 1143 01:03:41,300 --> 01:03:44,100 Your I think it's always important to have intelligence 1144 01:03:44,100 --> 01:03:46,300 Skeptics in this right thing. After all. 1145 01:03:46,300 --> 01:03:48,600 You were one for a great many years and you still are your 1146 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,200 Skellig Lasik lie. I don't accept more than one 1147 01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:53,700 hundredth of stuff. I hate her. 1148 01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:55,800 Okay, the real pleasure talking to you Doctor. 1149 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:56,900 Thank you. Thanks for calling. 1150 01:03:56,900 --> 01:03:58,200 Right by them. Hello? 1151 01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:00,800 Yes, I didn't realize it was my turn. 1152 01:04:00,900 --> 01:04:02,800 It's your turn. I would like dr. 1153 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,600 Hynek about some A ssion. This happened on Colorado 1154 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:12,000 between 1949 and 1952. I was living out there and my 1155 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,700 father's cousin who was an Air Force officer at that. 1156 01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:18,900 Time was transferred to our Air Force Base in Denver, one 1157 01:04:18,900 --> 01:04:21,700 weekend in his family, came to visit us out Northeastern 1158 01:04:21,700 --> 01:04:25,500 Colorado and UFOs came up in the conversation. 1159 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,400 And I told my Dad's cousin about a recent article, in a monthly 1160 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,400 magazine named Dieter pageant or Coronet. 1161 01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:36,600 That went into great detail about the inside and the outside 1162 01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:41,700 of UFO and its occupants. And the UFO has been found. 1163 01:04:42,100 --> 01:04:47,400 As I remember our Arizona, they had crashed and my dad's cousin 1164 01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:48,800 worked. Absolutely stunned. 1165 01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:52,300 And he said that since all disappeared in a national 1166 01:04:52,300 --> 01:04:55,500 magazine, he felt that he could see why he had been sent to 1167 01:04:55,500 --> 01:05:00,000 Larry Air Force Base and he and some other officers had been run 1168 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,300 out there to a school level, top secret and they I've been 1169 01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:07,800 learning everything that I had read in this magazine and I 1170 01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,900 don't recall whether it's government or the air force that 1171 01:05:10,900 --> 01:05:17,500 had, they are reluctant to do. So, would we need? 1172 01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,900 See this story has cropped up many, many times. 1173 01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,700 If it could be authenticated it would be a tremendously, 1174 01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:27,700 exciting thing, Jack Anderson or somebody should uncover it. 1175 01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:32,800 But I am not going to accept it unless I have definite. 1176 01:05:32,900 --> 01:05:36,500 Identification of it. Well unfortunately my dad said 1177 01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:39,600 cousin passed away a couple of years ago and he had retired 1178 01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,700 from the Air Force. I might mention, I don't know 1179 01:05:42,700 --> 01:05:46,200 whether it would help or not. I think it was a pageant 1180 01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,200 magazine. I'm not sure. 1181 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:51,000 I do know that after the article appeared in the magazine it was 1182 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,900 never seen on the newsstands again. 1183 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:58,800 Well I that's that's a help but you really need. 1184 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,400 If you could get an Air Force officer who went to that school. 1185 01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:02,200 Yes. Ma'am. 1186 01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,800 You can't important thing. Kind of have a first-hand 1187 01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:05,700 report. Yeah. 1188 01:06:05,900 --> 01:06:07,000 Okay. Thank you for calling. 1189 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:08,900 You're welcome. Thank you, you swear on the 1190 01:06:08,908 --> 01:06:16,400 radio that dr. Hynek here on WJR Downriver and 1191 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,000 we were driving along our little Street here. 1192 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,700 This is about 10 years ago and we see this light from the are 1193 01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:26,600 shining down on us and we stopped the car by the 1194 01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,800 neighbors, was on the sidewalk and we looked up and this was an 1195 01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,900 object. It was the if that came down was 1196 01:06:33,900 --> 01:06:36,300 yellow, of course, like a light, like a beacon. 1197 01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:41,000 My husband is always said that. If, if they've taken pictures, 1198 01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,100 they've got our picture. This, he always said this, he 1199 01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:46,700 says, well, he must be photographic and the we watch 1200 01:06:46,700 --> 01:06:50,900 this it was it was about the heights of black worthy. 1201 01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,700 The third ripples will fly like the Goodyear in this sort of 1202 01:06:53,707 --> 01:06:58,900 thing and the blimps and so we we watched it wasn't very long 1203 01:06:58,900 --> 01:07:01,800 just maybe like a minute or two. It was like a yellow green 1204 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,000 light. And it looked like lights on it, 1205 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,500 but you I couldn't tell that part because the light was 1206 01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:11,900 shining down real bright and all of a sudden it flew to the west 1207 01:07:11,900 --> 01:07:14,500 and it just went you. It was just like, you couldn't 1208 01:07:14,500 --> 01:07:18,500 even snap your finger. It went that rapidly and when it 1209 01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:23,500 flew it left them it was like it left a cone after it like maybe 1210 01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:26,300 if that was the I don't know. I always figured like some of 1211 01:07:26,308 --> 01:07:29,700 these airplanes that are skywriting but this is this is 1212 01:07:29,700 --> 01:07:31,900 what we saw and I'm in the Downriver, it was about 10 years 1213 01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:32,800 ago. No. 1214 01:07:32,900 --> 01:07:34,600 No, he did. You report that to anybody. 1215 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,900 No. Because at that time to this you 1216 01:07:38,300 --> 01:07:40,500 we didn't really how to even tell her family. 1217 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,000 It was around the time when you know, the papers were debunking 1218 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:52,500 it and everyone was debunking. It was so we really didn't tell 1219 01:07:52,500 --> 01:07:55,700 anyone this neighbor up the road, we don't really know him 1220 01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:58,500 at all, but, and we never did talk to him about it after that. 1221 01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:04,500 But, but we thought and we were, we were You know, we can never 1222 01:08:04,500 --> 01:08:08,000 know influence of anything but it just seemed like. 1223 01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,000 And again, this morning, my husband says, will you tell me 1224 01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,200 took her picture? And that's all that was our 1225 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,200 impression of it. This brings up the very 1226 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,399 important points and many people not only are reluctant to 1227 01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:21,100 report, but they also tell me, they don't know where to report 1228 01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:25,600 and the place. Certainly one of the places to 1229 01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,500 report is the center for UFO studies in Evanston. 1230 01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:33,399 Illinois, the ZIP code is 60 202 and the phone number there, Is 1231 01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:42,600 area code, 312, 44, 91, 1870. If I were to write this up, of 1232 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,700 course, I didn't know until this morning, there was a place that 1233 01:08:44,700 --> 01:08:46,700 you can write and I've been listening to you since you come 1234 01:08:46,700 --> 01:08:50,000 on fat, girl isn't JP when he had it the other time and these, 1235 01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:54,000 these things sound fantastic. But from what we saw, I know 1236 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:55,700 they're not. I know they're really true 1237 01:08:55,700 --> 01:08:58,100 because we saw this on. Why don't you write it up and 1238 01:08:58,100 --> 01:09:02,500 send it into the center for UFO studies to give the address once 1239 01:09:02,500 --> 01:09:06,899 again doctor All right, is the center for UFO studies. 924 1240 01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:15,600 Chicago Avenue Evanston, Illinois 6020 to or just the 1241 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,000 center for UFO studies. Evanston illinois is probably 1242 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,100 sufficient. The post office knows as pretty 1243 01:09:20,100 --> 01:09:24,500 well by now, and the zip is 6020 to do that. 1244 01:09:24,500 --> 01:09:26,899 Thanks for calling dr. Hynek. 1245 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,300 I've witnessed you this morning. Take several phone calls, you 1246 01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:34,700 have taken reports of Of UFO, sightings from literally 1247 01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:38,200 thousands of people, maybe, even hundreds of thousands of 1248 01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,200 remember that many. But we do have 60,000 reports at 1249 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,500 first of all, you must get weary of these because and secondly, 1250 01:09:45,100 --> 01:09:47,000 is there a great similarity is that? 1251 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,200 They do all these various reports, no matter how strange 1252 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:55,300 they might sound to do any of them have one thing in common 1253 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,700 that from which you can draw some conclusions. 1254 01:09:57,900 --> 01:10:03,000 Well, there's certainly similar, let's put it this way that some 1255 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,000 people We'll say it's all imagination. 1256 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,600 Well, if it were all imagination, we ought to be able 1257 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,300 to get. We ought to be getting reports 1258 01:10:09,300 --> 01:10:13,800 of pink elephants with roller skates or the Taj Mahal being 1259 01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,700 seen in New Orleans. Or in other words, Pure 1260 01:10:16,700 --> 01:10:19,900 Imagination would give us all sorts of reports. 1261 01:10:19,900 --> 01:10:25,200 We don't, we get a fairly definite pattern of reports and 1262 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,900 from different cultures, from central Africa, from Papua New 1263 01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:30,600 Guinea from Brazil, from the Outback in Australia. 1264 01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,900 Same sorts of things are reported as From United States 1265 01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:35,400 and Canada. Let's say where there could have 1266 01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,900 been a relatively small chance for comparison between the 1267 01:10:38,907 --> 01:10:40,800 people. Yeah, the people in central 1268 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,600 Africa don't read Time Magazine. I don't believe you never know 1269 01:10:45,300 --> 01:10:49,200 what about the saucer shape. The shape seems to change the 30 1270 01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:51,800 years ago when they were first reported, they were flying 1271 01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,000 saucers while they still. Are you still have the daylight 1272 01:10:54,000 --> 01:11:01,100 disks not as many today? But we seem to be getting more 1273 01:11:01,100 --> 01:11:03,900 and more cases of the clothes. Boundaries rather than the 1274 01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:08,900 distant ones either they didn't, they were afraid to report Close 1275 01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:13,300 Encounters earlier or they didn't weren't as many but we 1276 01:11:13,300 --> 01:11:15,300 keep getting reports, especially older ones. 1277 01:11:15,300 --> 01:11:17,800 Now, for instance, the the picture itself is bringing 1278 01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,100 things out of the woodwork, we're getting reports of 1279 01:11:21,100 --> 01:11:24,600 abduction, cases of very close encounter of the second and 1280 01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,200 third kinds that people will write to us. 1281 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:31,000 And tell us this happened in 1965 of duction. 1282 01:11:31,300 --> 01:11:34,200 Kidnapping. Well, Somebody has picked up and 1283 01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,700 flown around and some sort of a spacecraft are not flown around. 1284 01:11:36,700 --> 01:11:40,400 No, I simply do not buy these cases of where people say, they 1285 01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:44,200 took a trip to Venus in a flying saucer and came back with hair 1286 01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,800 from saturnian, dog or something of that. 1287 01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:51,900 Sort, the place is covered with pseudo, religious nuts, and I 1288 01:11:51,907 --> 01:11:57,600 guess that makes our problem that much harder, but the 1289 01:11:58,300 --> 01:12:03,800 reports of Close Encounters. Our car coming, what are you 1290 01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,700 talking about abruption? The the typical pattern there, 1291 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,700 the classic case, of course, is the famous case of Betty and 1292 01:12:09,700 --> 01:12:12,700 Barney Hill. But there are dozens and dozens 1293 01:12:12,700 --> 01:12:16,600 of others, the typical pattern that Duvall has developed. 1294 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,900 Is that for a short time, the people have in their conscious 1295 01:12:19,900 --> 01:12:23,600 memory of the experience of memory of an excuse fo 1296 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:26,800 experience. Then Amnesia sets in, they will 1297 01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,200 tell us that they didn't know what happened for, maybe an hour 1298 01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:34,000 or two hours, they Be found farther down the road at the end 1299 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:38,200 of that time. And then there again conscious 1300 01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,900 but they're very puzzled as to what happened in that time, 1301 01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:44,800 lapse. How many of these encounters 1302 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,000 have been reported about 50 so far? 1303 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,200 Are they all similar? Yeah, they're similar in this, 1304 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,500 they have this conscious period and then the unconscious and 1305 01:12:54,500 --> 01:12:58,800 what we've been doing as far as our funds permit is to employ, 1306 01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:03,500 regressive hypnosis, if the Since has been that traumatic, 1307 01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:06,100 you know, is well known. That the conscious mind will 1308 01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:10,200 block out a traumatic experience and we've been getting some 1309 01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:14,000 very, very interesting accounts from under hypnosis. 1310 01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,800 Now I haven't the least idea how reliable we can count, two 1311 01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,600 things that we get when people tell us under hypnosis, but 1312 01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:24,200 nonetheless for what it's worth, the stories are remarkably 1313 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:28,100 similar, they will report that they were given taken aboard and 1314 01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:31,200 given some sort of a medical examination are generally. 1315 01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,100 Rather hazy about It but good people. 1316 01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:41,700 Good to sort of the earth type, people have told us this and you 1317 01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:44,200 sound like, you believe them. No. 1318 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,600 I believe that they are sincere. You believe they believe what 1319 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,100 they're telling you? Yes, I believe that. 1320 01:13:49,100 --> 01:13:52,300 Now whether that really look i-i've, always point out that 1321 01:13:52,300 --> 01:13:55,100 Saul of Tarsus and the road to Damascus, had an experience 1322 01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:56,700 which transformed him into st. Paul. 1323 01:13:56,700 --> 01:13:58,300 And that certainly affected the human race. 1324 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,200 But was it a real experience undoubtedly Saint? 1325 01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,300 Paul thought it was a real. Experience, you know, Vandana, 1326 01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:09,500 caen and other writers have tried to draw parallels from 1327 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:13,500 Biblical times, and before is a matter of fact to the kinds of 1328 01:14:13,500 --> 01:14:16,400 things that are happening now and indicating that we the space 1329 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,500 chariots etcetera that we have been visited before. 1330 01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:23,200 Do you hold with that? I don't hold with it because 1331 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,900 simply well Von daniken in the Chariots of the Gods. 1332 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,100 I cannot respect his scholarship. 1333 01:14:30,100 --> 01:14:32,600 I'm and I think I've never been able to finish one of Books 1334 01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,900 because it's it just nauseating to me. 1335 01:14:36,100 --> 01:14:40,200 He might be right? And certainly, he stirred 1336 01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:45,900 people's imaginations but there's no the evidence that he 1337 01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:51,300 tries to bring forth is mostly supposition and ad hoc stuff. 1338 01:14:51,900 --> 01:14:54,000 Flimsy conclusions very flimsy conclusions. 1339 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,500 I would say glad to see that you're still somewhat of a 1340 01:14:56,500 --> 01:15:00,200 skeptic that's that's healthy. You have not turned the corner, 1341 01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:02,100 and I've been watching you all morning long. 1342 01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:04,900 And you were very, very careful to never say. 1343 01:15:04,900 --> 01:15:07,300 Oh yes, that's I know what that is. 1344 01:15:07,900 --> 01:15:10,900 You either you seem to be listening as a priest in 1345 01:15:10,900 --> 01:15:13,800 confessional, or as a psychiatrist on the couch 1346 01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:15,000 without ever committing yourself? 1347 01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:19,000 Why is that? Well, because if I'm true to the 1348 01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,700 scientific principles, you don't say a scientist, doesn't say he 1349 01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:26,500 believes this or people ask me. Do you believe in UFOs? 1350 01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:29,000 But belief is a sort of, a theological sort of thing. 1351 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,700 I want to scientist, says he believes something. 1352 01:15:30,700 --> 01:15:33,900 He means that he has enough. Evidence now to think that this 1353 01:15:33,900 --> 01:15:37,800 or that is soul and we're still Gathering the evidence. 1354 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:38,700 Okay? Electronic. 1355 01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:42,900 Well, I'll tell you this, maybe the folks who are observing, us 1356 01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:45,700 didn't like our conversation this morning because driving 1357 01:15:45,700 --> 01:15:49,100 conditions have absolutely turned to Glad metaphysical 1358 01:15:49,100 --> 01:15:52,300 Society the, you know, so yeah. So how are you? 1359 01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:53,900 It's fine. I was with dr. 1360 01:15:53,900 --> 01:15:58,700 Allen hynek, in, 1972, it London England, if he recalls at the 1361 01:15:58,700 --> 01:16:03,000 festival of esoteric Sciences, where there was Get a number of 1362 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,300 UFO, enthusiasts from England that met him there. 1363 01:16:05,300 --> 01:16:08,000 Do you recall dr. When I recall the meeting but I 1364 01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,200 met so many people of that time. That's right. 1365 01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:14,200 Well Mike affiliation with the whole story goes back from the 1366 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:19,800 time of 1947 and my concern and questions were similar to j.p. 1367 01:16:20,300 --> 01:16:23,800 Why are you here while eventually we were able to read 1368 01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,700 an organization or a group who would meet and rap about the 1369 01:16:27,700 --> 01:16:31,600 possibilities of being visited? One of our members, became what 1370 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,600 we call it. Hello through an electromagnetic 1371 01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,400 beam. Supposedly being to his brain 1372 01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:40,800 from a craft, and you see, now, you know, some, we start talking 1373 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:42,500 like this, you lose me. Wow. 1374 01:16:43,500 --> 01:16:45,100 Okay. Important says that, we were 1375 01:16:45,100 --> 01:16:48,900 making supposedly a verbal communication through a 1376 01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:50,400 individual. Okay? 1377 01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,000 And our concern was why don't you win, okay? 1378 01:16:54,500 --> 01:16:57,800 And their indication was that if they were to land, say downtown 1379 01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:01,400 the city, Detroit 70% of the people would want to. 1380 01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:06,000 Destroy them for being invaded. Supposedly by monsters the other 1381 01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:11,600 30%, they indicated with leg prone and just want to worship 1382 01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:13,500 them as God's. So we were not prefer to ready 1383 01:17:13,500 --> 01:17:16,600 for this, kind of communication with extraterrestrial. 1384 01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:18,900 Why do people assume that's all? I've heard that before. 1385 01:17:18,900 --> 01:17:20,900 I don't event. Doesn't make a lot of sense. 1386 01:17:20,900 --> 01:17:22,200 I don't think. Do you think it makes sense? 1387 01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:27,400 Why do you Doctor honey? Well, I suppose the the, there's 1388 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,600 some, if they observe the human race, they know there are. 1389 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:33,600 We're a warlike group but I do You better be sufficient reason. 1390 01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:38,200 Wow, let's put it this way. There's 30 years of 1391 01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:42,000 communication. Supposedly was identifying 1392 01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,600 objects. I don't call him UFO as I call 1393 01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:45,500 them. Hiya phones. 1394 01:17:45,500 --> 01:17:48,800 They are identified. There's something in the sky and 1395 01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,100 their communication device. Is that what we're seeing our 1396 01:17:51,100 --> 01:17:54,300 Scout ships as opposed to the Mothership, which house these 1397 01:17:54,300 --> 01:17:56,500 cows. They indicate that there are 1398 01:17:56,500 --> 01:18:00,500 mother ships are hundreds of miles long, that the becomes 1399 01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:03,500 what we call a very scientific. Fiction phenomena, well I think 1400 01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:06,400 would be very important to get testable information from them 1401 01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,900 if they could give us some information that we can then for 1402 01:18:09,900 --> 01:18:12,600 instance, if they had told us what exactly what we'd find on 1403 01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,800 Mars before Viking got there, that would have been beautiful 1404 01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,900 testable information that we've, this is the sort of stuff we 1405 01:18:18,900 --> 01:18:20,700 need. So if you are communicating with 1406 01:18:20,700 --> 01:18:24,300 him, please ask him to give us something that we don't know 1407 01:18:24,300 --> 01:18:26,300 about yet. Our, let me give you something. 1408 01:18:26,300 --> 01:18:29,400 Just let me give you something that they wanted to know. 1409 01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:33,200 Okay, sure they want us to know that we're not A crises that 1410 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,300 were playing with toys supposedly that some crazy can 1411 01:18:36,300 --> 01:18:38,000 push a button. The maleate are apply. 1412 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,500 We, we knew that already, all right? 1413 01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:41,200 They know it. And they know that we know that 1414 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:44,400 in their hair and their concern about us doing the thing that 1415 01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:46,700 they're proper. They don't wish to play games 1416 01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:48,100 with us. They don't have to prove their 1417 01:18:48,100 --> 01:18:50,200 existence. They want us to prove our own 1418 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,200 existence. Science is always looking for 1419 01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,900 some belief in. You have to do something doctor 1420 01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:01,100 when you were on the, the movie was Sensational, result. 1421 01:19:01,100 --> 01:19:03,400 Question about it away. Taken a great deal of 1422 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,700 understanding and awareness with everyone have seen it, as there 1423 01:19:06,700 --> 01:19:10,800 has to be an effect. The story shows that there had 1424 01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,600 been some crap that was returned to the to the Earth or came back 1425 01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:18,200 into our Dimension. And then off of the great big 1426 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,600 ship came. These two Americans who have now 1427 01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,900 returned, is that a science fiction stories in an account? 1428 01:19:23,900 --> 01:19:27,400 That is supposedly the neck. Part was pure science fiction. 1429 01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:30,300 Okay? So, thank you very much for 1430 01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:31,700 calling. I'll see you soon. 1431 01:19:31,700 --> 01:19:32,800 Take care. All right. 1432 01:19:32,900 --> 01:19:35,200 Okay, we're going to go to the weather as you've been hanging 1433 01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,100 on for a long time, but I really don't care. 1434 01:19:37,100 --> 01:19:38,900 Go on here, but I do want to report this Bank. 1435 01:19:39,100 --> 01:19:42,200 Well, we're on the air right now then if you don't care to go on, 1436 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,800 I will take you off. Yes, hello. 1437 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:50,700 Yeah, I am going to go and ask him for money. 1438 01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:55,500 Okay, why our kind of my brother has a they're on their back 1439 01:19:55,500 --> 01:19:58,500 yard, I have nobody believed her because of our ages. 1440 01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:01,900 This is about 10 years ago. I think we might have had Close 1441 01:20:01,900 --> 01:20:02,800 Encounters. Second. 1442 01:20:03,300 --> 01:20:06,600 I don't know. We saw white. 1443 01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,900 We won't die. Look. 1444 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,100 Outside of the star and it seemed to come from authorizing 1445 01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:19,000 to Zenith really quickly a matter of 10 seconds or so. 1446 01:20:19,300 --> 01:20:20,800 Wasn't a satellite wasn't meteor. 1447 01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,500 Didn't have any Trail. Got right above us. 1448 01:20:25,500 --> 01:20:29,000 Exactly above us and we were watching it in an hour there for 1449 01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:33,100 about a second and checking this top really suddenly just stop 1450 01:20:34,300 --> 01:20:37,700 and then it started move on again. 1451 01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,700 It's if didn't have any acceleration at all or anything, 1452 01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:46,500 you just want to stop the start with nothing in between and went 1453 01:20:46,500 --> 01:20:49,100 disappeared below the Horizon. Meanwhile there with a second 1454 01:20:49,100 --> 01:20:54,500 outward at then and then appear to be descending and it got But 1455 01:20:54,500 --> 01:20:58,600 not too much and then it seemed to get along in this into three 1456 01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:01,900 small dots and was assembling really rapidly. 1457 01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:04,900 We don't recover. We and right between word means, 1458 01:21:05,100 --> 01:21:06,500 we've been standing three things. 1459 01:21:06,500 --> 01:21:10,700 I might have been a meteor, hit the ground, and we went out 1460 01:21:10,700 --> 01:21:14,400 there the next day and there were three small spots on the 1461 01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,000 ground in the backyard. Can see the grass. 1462 01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:23,200 It was it was feared woke up and it was a person, acquires a 1463 01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,300 little triangle is About the routines that was about the size 1464 01:21:26,300 --> 01:21:30,400 of a half dollar and three years. 1465 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,600 After that, nothing ever grew in those spots. 1466 01:21:34,100 --> 01:21:36,800 And that's a typical story. They the effect that nothing 1467 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,400 grows, but did you actually see these things fall? 1468 01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:43,400 Yeah, it's over between us, we had a very good fewer scared out 1469 01:21:43,407 --> 01:21:47,300 of our wits news. That's a that's quite 1470 01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:49,400 interesting. Did you report that Tony what he 1471 01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:51,600 always important for parents Mesa? 1472 01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:55,400 Could have bet you're Dreamin And ain't nobody believed it 1473 01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:02,300 when it's a little old for that report, but the, what is the 1474 01:22:02,300 --> 01:22:04,400 situation those spots now? Are they still there? 1475 01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:10,800 We should go back and take a look and let me know, all right. 1476 01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,100 Matter of fact, why don't you chronicled your report after you 1477 01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:15,500 go back and look and write it and write a letter and send it 1478 01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:17,300 to a dr. Hynek at the center for UFO 1479 01:22:17,300 --> 01:22:20,000 studies and give you to ask whether it's a Well, sufficient 1480 01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:23,700 to say Evanston, Illinois 6020 to okay. 1481 01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:25,200 Okay. Thank you. 1482 01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:26,400 Okay. Thank you for calling dr. 1483 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,600 Hynek is going to be lecturing at Eastern Michigan University, 1484 01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:33,500 this afternoon noon at noontime close encounter these things. 1485 01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:34,800 Teach you anything, you learn anything. 1486 01:22:34,900 --> 01:22:36,300 Every bit of information helps us. 1487 01:22:36,300 --> 01:22:40,800 Suppose we need to get this information because otherwise 1488 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:42,800 what do we have to have data to work with? 1489 01:22:42,900 --> 01:22:45,000 Okay all right. Go ahead you're on the air yes I 1490 01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,500 had a close encounter. When I was in my early teens 1491 01:22:47,500 --> 01:22:53,600 around, 1956 57 near Lake, Mary Ann Arbor and we were visiting 1492 01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,500 friends and Gone outside. We've been inside and we went 1493 01:22:56,500 --> 01:23:00,300 outside and we saw this.in, the Skylight discussed, you know, 1494 01:23:00,300 --> 01:23:03,300 one night it was moving very fast and it was coming from the 1495 01:23:03,300 --> 01:23:06,400 southwest headed toward the Northeast. 1496 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,600 And the man that we were visiting was a doctor who had 1497 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:13,200 been a doctor in the Navy and he had a pair of, really excellent 1498 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,000 binocular. So he went in and got them. 1499 01:23:15,300 --> 01:23:20,000 We look through the binoculars and we saw a saucer with a dome, 1500 01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:24,000 with a slight Haze on it, moving very fast in, in the dresser. 1501 01:23:24,100 --> 01:23:27,600 That I just mentioned and after we thought everybody sat there 1502 01:23:27,900 --> 01:23:30,500 absolutely in shock, he went in and called the sheriff's 1503 01:23:30,500 --> 01:23:35,300 department for more snow County and they had had swamped with 1504 01:23:35,300 --> 01:23:38,400 calls that easy about an unidentified flying object. 1505 01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:41,800 So that was good. We asked you, not to use the 1506 01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:48,700 word swamp, I have to correct you on one point, that would not 1507 01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:51,800 classify it as a close encounter close encounter has to be within 1508 01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,600 say, five hundred feet, right? Right. 1509 01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,000 In the light of an unidentified flying object, something that we 1510 01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,000 could identify, that's an interesting case. 1511 01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,600 But it's a little far off but enjoyment. 1512 01:24:03,900 --> 01:24:08,200 I think that was the man at the service department mentioned 1513 01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:10,600 that that most people had seen it through binoculars. 1514 01:24:11,300 --> 01:24:16,100 So, but it was interesting. Anyway, thank you, bye-bye. 1515 01:24:16,300 --> 01:24:20,700 How come the the we seem to be getting so many reports this 1516 01:24:20,700 --> 01:24:22,700 morning of, sightings in the Ann Arbor area? 1517 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:27,000 Why would that be We're in then Arbor area, really. 1518 01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:30,800 And the Ann Arbor area is a very, very tiny of portion of 1519 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:35,200 this metropolitan area. Well, that's that's a point. 1520 01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:37,600 I don't know the answer that. Okay. 1521 01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:40,300 Can I take you out of the role of a scientist for just a 1522 01:24:40,308 --> 01:24:42,800 moment? Okay, let me put you into the 1523 01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,500 role of a man who has been observing studying UFOs for 1524 01:24:46,500 --> 01:24:50,600 great number of years now and ask you to make a couple of 1525 01:24:51,100 --> 01:24:54,700 logical. Extrapolations from all this 1526 01:24:54,700 --> 01:24:59,300 information and project. What you think all of this might 1527 01:24:59,300 --> 01:25:05,200 mean Well, first of all, when one gets rid of all the static, 1528 01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:07,800 the noise, the crud separates as best he can. 1529 01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:11,400 The wheat from the chaff, there's very little week left. 1530 01:25:11,500 --> 01:25:15,200 I mean, there's the the number of really solid cases are 1531 01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:19,600 certainly the minority, but they are there those, if you want 1532 01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:23,200 them to extrapolate, those do represent. 1533 01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,200 If you're to believe them at all represent some form of 1534 01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,900 intelligence. But where this intelligence is 1535 01:25:28,900 --> 01:25:31,800 from, whether it is, Some great distances away. 1536 01:25:32,300 --> 01:25:34,900 Whether it is much closer or whether as some psychologists, 1537 01:25:34,900 --> 01:25:38,600 believe it may be some product of our own intelligence, some 1538 01:25:38,700 --> 01:25:41,500 psychic projection from a youngster, from the collective 1539 01:25:41,500 --> 01:25:46,700 unconscious. That's hard to see because the, 1540 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:50,100 some of the best reports involved, physical traces burns 1541 01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:52,800 on the ground and radar observations and things of that 1542 01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:54,500 sort tough for imagination to do that. 1543 01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:59,200 Yeah, we tough imagination to do that and it will need be nice to 1544 01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,800 theorize and speculate. But I can't stop being a 1545 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,300 scientist. I simply will not extrapolate to 1546 01:26:05,300 --> 01:26:08,500 the point and say that I think it is this or that any more than 1547 01:26:08,500 --> 01:26:14,000 if I were a doctor of PR the medical doctor, I would say the 1548 01:26:14,300 --> 01:26:16,800 have a cure for cancer and absolute positive cure for 1549 01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,300 cancer. I mean, I don't and I don't have 1550 01:26:19,300 --> 01:26:21,100 an answer to the UFO problem either. 1551 01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:25,500 It does seem to you, however, if I read you correctly, that the 1552 01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:30,500 vet it is directed by some sort of intelligence, apparently. 1553 01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,600 You know, whether that that seems to be the case and the 1554 01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:37,900 difficulty is that the subject has not been treated 1555 01:26:37,900 --> 01:26:42,600 professionally over the last 30 years, it's we've had a carnival 1556 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,500 of buffoonery in the thing and for good reason because the 1557 01:26:45,500 --> 01:26:49,900 great majority of the reports are nonsense, the cases that are 1558 01:26:49,900 --> 01:26:54,200 really interesting are so bizarre that it's much easier to 1559 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:56,600 try to sweep them under the carpet and then we are troubled 1560 01:26:56,600 --> 01:27:00,500 by the cooks, and the crackpots in the dealings, who insist on. 1561 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,800 Muddying up the waters, tremendously with their utterly, 1562 01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:07,200 fantastic and stupid. I would say theories. 1563 01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:12,900 Now that appeals to them, obviously, you know, I'd like to 1564 01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:15,600 just crawl underneath your skin and know what you really feel. 1565 01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,500 You're very, very careful about how you put things in what you 1566 01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:20,900 say, you should be. I guess you have to remain 1567 01:27:20,900 --> 01:27:23,400 detached and as objective as you can be. 1568 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,800 If I lose my scientific credibility, I'm I'm gone. 1569 01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,300 And I, there's enough nuts in this world. 1570 01:27:29,300 --> 01:27:33,800 Thought I don't want to join That group as an astronomer and 1571 01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:37,900 understanding how large this universe is it does it make 1572 01:27:37,900 --> 01:27:42,500 sense to you that somewhere that there must be by the, by the law 1573 01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:45,700 of probability figuring the incredible number of planets. 1574 01:27:45,700 --> 01:27:49,400 There are, there must be some other intelligent beings 1575 01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:51,000 somewhere. The be the question. 1576 01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,800 You see the astronomer, let me give you a little model, suppose 1577 01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:59,000 we made a model of everything that the astronomer can today 1578 01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,900 see through telescopes. Rose. 1579 01:28:00,900 --> 01:28:03,400 We made that model. Now, as large as the United 1580 01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:07,200 States, the net, we put our some place in Kansas, and we, let's 1581 01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:08,800 New York. Be as far as ours. 1582 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,600 We can see in One Direction in San Francisco. 1583 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,600 As far as ours, we can see in the other than on that scale in 1584 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,600 this model, the Earth would not be visible. 1585 01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:19,600 Even in the world's most powerful electron microscope. 1586 01:28:19,900 --> 01:28:22,200 Now, it is preposterous to think that there's some sub 1587 01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:24,900 microscopic Speck in. Kansas is the only thing on this 1588 01:28:24,900 --> 01:28:28,000 model that represents life between New York and San 1589 01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:30,400 Francisco to make odor. Make us absolute Cosmic. 1590 01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:33,700 Freaks, your colleagues agree with you completely that 1591 01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:35,800 absolutely. You are convinced their arm then 1592 01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:38,500 there are many intelligent of planets. 1593 01:28:38,500 --> 01:28:41,500 Maybe entire systems are tremendous, we can't prove it 1594 01:28:42,100 --> 01:28:47,300 but I that's their it I think it is would be terribly egotistical 1595 01:28:47,300 --> 01:28:49,000 to think that we are. The highest intelligence is in 1596 01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,100 this entire universe. But see the problem is not and I 1597 01:28:52,100 --> 01:28:55,600 think we can close on this. This statement that the question 1598 01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,800 is not Are UFOs visitors from outer space but the question is, 1599 01:28:59,900 --> 01:29:02,800 what are you? Those two different questions, 1600 01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:04,100 dr. Heilig, thank you very much for 1601 01:29:04,108 --> 01:29:07,100 being with us this morning, fascinating these past three 1602 01:29:07,100 --> 01:29:10,800 hours went by, like lightning, I remind you again that you can 1603 01:29:11,300 --> 01:29:13,700 write for the international UFO reporter. 1604 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:18,600 The magazine monthly review, put out on UFO information by dr. 1605 01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,700 Hynek and his colleagues in the center for UFO studies, to 1606 01:29:21,700 --> 01:29:26,300 Simply by writing to UFO reporter, Evanston, Illinois. 1607 01:29:26,300 --> 01:29:30,400 And the zip code is 6020 to Tasha dollar coffee. 1608 01:29:30,500 --> 01:29:32,100 Well, dollars a year right subscription. 1609 01:29:32,300 --> 01:29:33,400 Thank you again for being with us. 1610 01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:35,300 Thank you. Utterly fascinating. 1611 01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,600 Thanks again for listening to unnerved. 1612 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,400 If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your 1613 01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:49,300 friends and leave a review wherever you get your podcast. 1614 01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:53,600 And if you guys want to see photos related to each episode, 1615 01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:58,000 be sure to follow us on our Instagram at unnerved podcast. 1616 01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:00,500 Next week. We'll have a regular Story 1617 01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:04,600 episode and I'm excited for you guys to hear it until then have 1618 01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,900 a good rest of your week and we'll see you then. 1619 01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,600 Thanks again for listening to unnerved. 1620 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,400 If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your 1621 01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:49,300 friends and leave a review wherever you get your podcast. 1622 01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:53,600 And if you guys want to see photos related to each episode, 1623 01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:58,000 be sure to follow us on our Instagram at unnerved podcast. 1624 01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:00,500 Next week. We'll have a regular Story 1625 01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:04,600 episode and I'm excited for you guys to hear it until then have 1626 01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,900 a good rest of your week and we'll see you then.