Welcome to Peptides for Women. I'm Jennifer Woodward and this
is your podcast for smart, honest conversations about
peptide therapy and midlife Wellness.
We cover everything from GLP ones to BPC 157, plus the
foundations that still matter, sunlight, steps, strength
training, protein and minerals. So if you're ready to feel
better with science, back tools, and natural habits that actually
work, you're in the right place. Let's dive in.
I have to address the question I get more than almost any other
question, More than what do I do about my belly fat, more than is
this perimenopause, and honestly, probably more than
questions from my own family. Where do I get my peptides?
So here's the answer. I've been working with LEMD now
for about a year and I genuinely love them.
The physician oversight, the quality of the peptides, and the
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is the real deal. If you want to order your own
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It's super easy. And if you're a practitioner and
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I also want to be clear that I'm not a doctor and I don't
diagnose, treat, or prescribe anything.
I'm just a woman who did a lot of research, has a lot of
feelings about her hormones, and now has a podcast about it.
OK, now let's get into it. Welcome back to the Peptides for
Women podcast. I'm Jennifer Woodward, and I'm
here today with Dr. Ian Ellis. Doctor Ellis is a physician and
the founder of Voafit, a platform that revolutionizes
obesity treatment by personalizing GLP one dosing
based on individual drug levels. I've seen it.
It's super rad. After struggling with his own
weight and experiencing the limitations of standard GLP 1
therapies, Doctor Ellis developed a method that reduces
side effects, improves outcomes, and results in a 0% patient
dropout rate in his clinic. With a passion for patient
centered care, he's dedicated to helping individuals achieve
lasting, sustainable weight loss and better health.
Doctor Ellis, welcome to the show.
Hey, yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It's a true pleasure. So glad.
To be here, it's a wonderful I've loved our chat so far, but
there's some kind of fun things about you too.
You're sitting inside your podcast studio, which also
moonlights as your home gym. Tell me, what are some of the
things you've got there behind the background in your home gym?
Well, I started setting up this gym 10 years ago.
I just had one set of adjustable dumbbells and a flat bench I
worked out in my driveway with a trainer.
This was me actually starting to get back in shape after
residency. And I'm sure we'll actually talk
about that experience. But you know, I had a garage,
you know, was working really hard just in like early career
emergency medicine, didn't have time to go to commercial gyms.
And so gradually started accumulating pieces of equipment
and then filled up the garage, moved into a place with kind of
like a 32 by 22 foot addition. And that happened right around
the time COVID hit. So when all the gym shut down
and I was like, you know what, this is like my excuse to kind
of go all out and and buy all the things that I want to, you
know, have so that I never have the need to go to commercial gym
ever again. And so most of my equipment is
from Rogue. I have, you know, rogue power
racks. I have two of those.
I have a belt squat machine. I have a Woodway treadmill.
I have, let's see, you know, cable crossover, full set of
dumbbells, you know, all the attachments for high, low and
high row and low row and just, you know, kind of everything
you'd ever, ever need. So it's a fun place.
It's a dull, this is my office as well.
And so I get to spend most of my time in here.
Actually, I wake up, I work out, I work in the gym, I do my
podcast in the gym and then I, you know, leave at the end of
the day. So it's it's good.
Fantastic, I love it. OK, my all time favorite
exercise must be the Romanian deadlift.
What's yours? Let's see, it's so sad to answer
the question because it just makes me such a cliche, but but
it's it's bench press all day, all day long.
OK, You know, I've done a fair amount of like focused strength
training in my life. So kind of like big three lifts,
you know, with your bench and squat and and deadlift with my
bio mechanics, I bench really well and I squat very poorly and
deadlift is kind of like always a challenge.
And so, you know, bench day is the best day for sure.
Today is the best day. I think I saw that on a T-shirt
once. And you told me your kids also
come in. You are training the next
generation to lift. I love it.
So you said your kids are 12, nine and seven.
Is that right? Yes.
So about to turn 12-9 and seven and I had two girls and a boy.
The boy is the 9 year olds he is.
I don't know where the genetics came from.
I don't think they came directly for me because I feel like I've
had to work really, really hard to have an athletic physique.
He just came out like the star on every team he's ever been on.
He's unbelievably athletic, crazy strong, can do head stands
and hand stands and he can throw a baseball faster than I can
literally at nine years old and loves telling everyone about
that, by the way, Throws me under the bus every chance he
can get. But yeah, he loves to come in
and and do deadlifts with me. And, you know, obviously trying
to find that balance between not like pushing him too hard at his
age, but still allowing him to enjoy working out because he
really does like it, wants to be as strong as Daddy someday.
Oh, that is so, so great. There is nothing like it.
But that makes you think of one other thing.
While you were kind of talking about, you know, your genesis
story of the gym. Yeah.
You said that you started accruing all of your equipment
when you were in emergency medicine and made me think why?
I mean, you're a real affable, personable guy, right?
You got to. There's a lot of charisma about
you, and I feel like I've seen that the few times we've been to
the ER. Like ER doctors are just
generally pretty nice guys. Like they, they have a good
bedside manner. Why do you think that is?
So I think it's actually a few things, because that is true in
general. ER docs are cool cats.
It's a few things. You can't survive for very long
in the ER unless you're pretty chill with a lot of crazy things
like people that are very high in, let's say neuroticism or
have high anxiety or stress just can't really function in that
environment. You have to be able to juggle 6
critical patients at the same time and be able to function.
And so I think that attracts a certain type of personality
where you're just like, you know, it's cool, like whatever
happens, happens and I'll just do my best.
I think also to the lifestyle, it's not a lifestyle specialty
in terms of like it's, it's a hard life, but it is a life that
is very structured in terms of you go to work, you clock in,
you clock out. And when you're not at work as
an ER doctor, you have no additional medicine
responsibilities. You don't have follow up with
your patients, you don't have clinic responsibilities or like
you, you go to work, you punch in, you do your shift, you punch
out. And so it allows for a lot of
free time when you're not at work.
So, you know, a full full time ER gig is like 36 hours per
week, which is more than enough because those started 36 hours
are extremely intense. But that does mean you have a
lot of time off. And so ER tends to attract
people that have like hobbies and other things they enjoy
doing their off time. And so, you know, guys that'll,
you know, ride their speed bike to the ER.
That's like the classic stereotype.
You like, you ride up to the ER on your, in your, your road
bike, take off your helmet, put on your scrubs, and then, you
know, ride back home at the end of your shift.
You know, that's like a very common thing and it it certainly
has proven to be true. Fantastic.
OK, thanks for that. I I'm also curious now what,
what's the genesis, what got you there?
Tell me a little bit about your you know, your life, your
health, what things were like for you as a younger man, just
with regards to, you know, your weight and what kind of got you
into the path you're on it now. Yeah, So, you know, I did not
ever conceive of where I would be today when I was a younger
adult or even into my mid 20s. I'm the first doctor in my
family. I'm one of five kids.
We do have a variety of different interests, but there
was no medical exposure in my life growing up.
And so my dad was a pastor of a little church in Wylie, TX.
My mom was a stay at home mom, you know, raising the five kids.
And so I had a very, I guess maybe typical early 80s, early
90s childhood in, you know, small town Texas, USA with that
being in the 80s and 90s, that was kind of maybe the peak of
like thin as in like low fat craze.
Everyone was trying to lose weight and they still are now
today. But I think it was really a
cultural moment where it was like just everyone was always
trying to lose weight all the time.
And the way to do it at that point in time was low fat diet,
which is horrible mistake and just trying to not eat.
You know, that was where anorexia was like a cultural
thing that was really happening. And I think that the way that
people tried to figure out how to be healthy was, you know, eat
as little as possible for as long as possible until you reach
your goal weight. And so I grew up around a lot of
that. My parents were always trying to
lose weight. They were never getting where
they wanted to go. It was like, I mean, almost an
everyday thing where I'd just hear my dad say, man, like, I'm
so frustrated, you know, I'm so unhappy with how I look.
And you know, he had big giant, you know, she, this is like pre
Internet almost, you know, big sheets of graph paper taped up
to the wall where he would track his weight over time with like
a, you know, a ruler and a protractor.
And always like striving and trying and restricting and never
making any progress, like always ending up looking and feeling
the same. And I noticed that like as a
teenager, like 12/13/14, like everyone around me is trying so
hard to be in shape. No one seems to succeed.
I don't understand that or know why it's so hard, but hell if
that's going to happen to me. And I remember I had a real
moment. I was 14 years old.
I was standing in front of the mirror.
I was looking at my own, you know, teenage body, which in
hindsight was a perfectly normal teenage body.
But I had, like, a little bit of a role, you know?
And I was like, I am going to win this battle.
I'm going to do whatever it takes to fight this battle and
win. I'm not going to be, you know,
my mom, my dad, people around me spending every minute of their
day trying and failing. OK, So again, pre Internet, like
not pre Internet, there was Internet, but it was like, you
know, very early forums and, you know, there wasn't a lot of good
resources. I certainly had no specific
training or knowledge and nutrition or exercise.
And So what I came up with was not particularly elegant.
It was, well, they're trying not to eat and they're failing.
I'm going to try not to eat and I'm going to succeed.
And they're exercising a whole lot and not making progress.
So I'm going to exercise a lot more and I'm just going to will
my way to victory. And kind of in that very old
school, like it's simple. It's calories in, calories out,
you know, don't eat too much and exercise a lot and everything
else will sort itself out. OK, so I, you know, was an
athlete. I've played on sports teams and
everything. End up going to college pretty
young because I was home schooled.
My mom skipped me up a few grades.
That's only relevant because I went to college and just turned
16. Had no idea who I was, what I
was, what I wanted to be like 0, you know, thought in my brain
outside of, OK, I'm in college, like what's next?
And what was next was to go to the gym and to kind of fall in
with a bodybuilding kind of very aesthetically minded crowd of
young men that were older than me that were had kind of
aspirational physiques. And so developing A physique
that was extremely aesthetic became the like focus of every
moment of my days. I always share a few anecdotes.
You know, I had like Michelangelo's David, the
statue. I had his measurements.
Don't ask me how it got him, but his measurements of like chest
to waist to calf to forearm, you know, to whatever ratio taped up
on my wall. And like that was what I would
compare myself to. Like, have I arrived?
Am I in good enough shape? Well, let's just find, you know,
the pinnacle sculpture of Western civilization.
Like, you know, compare myself to that.
And if I'm not in that good of shape, then I'm not there yet.
Really developed some extremely toxic and I'm sure we'll be
familiar to you. Cycles of excessive restriction
going as long as I could without eating inter dispersed with kind
of like bulking phases in the bodybuilding community where you
just eat everything Insight because you're trying to gain as
much muscle as possible, you know, in your whipsawing
intentionally, you know, up £40, down 40 lbs just in a bid to get
to that idealized physique. Now externally because I was
spending almost every waking moment thinking about that and
trying to make that real. Externally I had a lot of
success. You know, when I cut down, I did
look great. You know, I did walk around an
8% body fat and look and feel and was to other people kind of
an aspirational physique. Well, underneath the surface,
just a hot mess of totally obsessive tendencies doing
things that were, you know, not being able to kind of hold on to
the wheel when I was overly restricting, losing control,
going to the fridge, eating 10,000 calories in a sitting,
not eating for the next two days to make up for it or over
exercising to kind of make up that deficit.
One of the worst examples of that was we had Thanksgiving
dinner one year and I had of course not eaten the day before
to make room. We've all, perhaps sadly gone
through that experience. You get to Thanksgiving with
like, I'm just going to, you know, Peck at things that I'm
not going to overeat. Well, you eat a little something
and you're really hungry and you eat a little something more, and
then you get a piece of pie and then you get seconds on
stuffing. And then you start to get
frustrated and sad and upset and mad and you just eat everything
insight until you just can't eat anymore.
And so that's what I did. But being a good little boy, I
kept track and weighed and measured every calorie of extra
stuffing and extra pumpkin pie and an extra Turkey and dressing
and I kept a perfect count of how much I actually over ate.
And it turns out that was 26126 hundred over maintenance.
So I ate my whole day's worth. And then I kept eating until I
had eaten 2600 more. So all I could come up with was
I guess I need to burn off 2600 calories to get this back to
baseline. And so I woke up the next day
and I went to the gym and I ran a marathon on the treadmill by
myself. Untrained.
No, like life goals of running a marathon didn't like it wasn't a
bucket list item. It was like, that's just how
many miles I had to run to burn off that many calories.
And when I say run, that's very charitable.
I ran for like 6 miles and then I walked for, you know, 15 miles
and then I, you know, hobbled along, you know, until I got to
the finish line. But that's just a good example
of where where my head was like just so relentlessly focused on
I have to eat the right things and overly restricting and
losing the handle, being a slave to my appetite and it just
really taking over every minute of my life.
OK Externally looked great. People were, you know, I became
a personal trainer. I was helping other people do
the same thing, OK. And, you know, preaching that
same ridiculous gospel. Yeah.
It's just so easy. Look, you just eat right and you
just exercise. No big deal as I would then go
home and clean out the fridge right and over exercise the next
day. So this is going to be a long
story. I always do this.
I always talk too long. I then I went to Med school and
I got married and I had a kid. And all of a sudden I went from
being a single person who had all day long to obsess and focus
on my physique and my diet and my exercise and all those things
and was basically living in the gym, you know, training other
people, exercising, you know, 6 to 8 hours a day, two working
100 hour weeks, having the stresses and rigors of medical
school and eventually residency, which was much worse.
And I lost the ability to overcompensate.
I couldn't run a marathon anymore because I was on
overnight call. And I couldn't rigorously
control every calorie that entered my body because I was at
the hospital and I was hungry. And there's, you know, Ho Hos at
the nurse's station. OK.
And when I went home, I had responsibilities to my wife, to
my kid, you know, other things that were too important for me
to kind of do the same things to overcompensate.
So the wheels completely fell off.
This is where the shoe drops. I gained 60 lbs over that period
of time. I stopped exercising.
I, you know, ate whatever I could whenever I could, and, you
know, still attempting to restrict as best I could, but
failing miserably, OK, becoming that slave to my appetite and
just not being able to control that.
And so I graduated residency, 60 lbs overweight, 40% body fat,
snoring like a freight train, you know, winded running back
and forth to codes. Really.
You know, you talk about a mirror moment, look in the
mirror and going, you know, forget my French.
God damn it. I'd become exactly what I
feared. I'm looking at the same person
in the mirror that I swore I would never become.
Like with all my training, with all of my knowledge, with
becoming a certified personal trainer, physician nutritionist,
spending every minute of every day here.
I was the same as everybody else, which was devastating.
You know, you, you graduate residency and you go, I can't
believe this happened to me, but with a new appreciation for I
was lying to people. This isn't easy.
It's extraordinarily difficult to have real a real life and
real responsibilities and go through your day keeping those
balls in the air and have a healthy physique.
In our Western world, with our terrible food supply and all the
stressors we have and our lack of time and all the things that
contribute to the obesity crisis, it is extraordinarily
difficult for most people to be successful.
You know, and the numbers are clear, right?
75% of the country is overweight or obese.
Not for lack of trying, OK? Everyone's trying.
Most people are failing, and in my experience, a majority of the
people that succeed have to give up way too much to get there.
They make fitness the focus of their entire life.
All their friends are at the gym.
All their recreational activities are related to, you
know, winning that battle. OK, well, that's not good
enough. Like there's a dream which will
get to how I think that can be a reality now of having your cake
and eating it too. Being fit and healthy, not being
a slave to your appetite, but also being balanced, spending
time with your family, not over exercising, over obsessing,
spending every square, you know, every spare minute of the day
trying to win that battle. And so I just talked for a very
long time. I'm so sorry.
OK, Does that a. Great story.
No, I think it gives us a very interesting background and
here's why I find it most fascinating.
I also am a child of the 80s. Most of our listeners grew up in
the Seventies, 80s and 90s. And so we are extraordinarily
familiar with diet culture and Paris Hilton and all that, like,
you know, anorexic culture. Yes, I did not realize that it
also. Affected the other half of the
population that that men also fell, you know, prey to some of
those lies. You know, I think it is
extremely underappreciated how much young men do know and care
and obsess. And it, it, it expresses itself
in a different way. You know, the, the goal as a
male is not typically to be as thin as possible.
It's to be as, you know, yoked as possible.
And so it, it expresses itself in a different way, but it
results in a similar toxicity of behaviors.
And not to mention the abuse of substances, you know, taking
anabolic steroids, you know, doing anything.
I mean, nowadays, Oh my gosh, the percentage of young men who
that are on some sort of performance enhancing substance,
not that they're all wrong to take or necessarily bad, but
they do indicate that everyone is doing something because they
don't feel like they can do it on their own is extraordinarily
high. Like the prototypical Instagram
male physique is not achievable naturally.
It is not for any amount of time.
And so young men that are, you know, on Instagram or Facebook
seeing these influencers and seeing how they look, they go,
oh, I guess that's the goal. Well, that goal is not
achievable by a human being who is not chemically enhanced so.
You're saying nothing has changed?
Nothing has changed since the 80s and 90s.
No, no, no. It's.
It's just expressed stuff in a different way.
Now I'll just throw a little caveat in here.
I'm not opposed to performance enhancing therapies because GLP
ones by any definition, are they make the impossible possible.
OK, And peptide therapies as a class, the sky seems to be the
limit in terms of optimizing our physique and allowing us to
function within a toxic Stew of cultural, you know, nutritional
and societal pressures that, you know, push all of us downstream
where we don't want to be. It's like peptides, GLP ones.
Those kind of things are a lifeboat with a motor in it that
allows you to, you know, get back upstream to where you would
we where we probably all would be if we were in a pre
industrial society and we were expending tons of energy in our
day-to-day activities and all we had was natural unprocessed
foods that we grew in the ground that we caught and prepared
ourselves. You know we would all be healthy
if we all lived 100 years ago because that is how it was.
The average male in you know, 19/20 was 165 lbs.
Well the average is up to 200. OK, not, and not 35 lbs of extra
muscle either. You know, we have lost the plot
in terms of, you know, and I was describing it this way.
You go 100 years ago, people spent most of their day working
really, really hard with their bodies, expending enormous
amounts of energy, ending their day in a huge calorie deficit.
And then they had a lot of food that was natural, that was
prepared fresh, that had a lot of volume, that was not
particularly energy dense. And so you had to eat a lot of
that type of food to maintain your weight.
So you work really hard and you get really hungry and you eat a
whole lot of food and you get full and you go to bed and you
do that again. And so, you know, type 2
diabetes was not a thing 100 years ago.
It literally did not exist as an entity.
The world has changed. We now have unlimited access to
food that we don't have to lift a finger to get.
You could DoorDash every single calorie you ever ate.
And you can actually instruct them in the app to put it inside
your front door. So you don't even have to like,
open your door and go outside to get it.
OK. We don't have to work for food
anymore. And we have unlimited amounts of
incredibly calorie dense food that is hyper palatable that our
brains are not designed to manage yet.
Our bodies haven't changed in 100 years in terms of, you know,
we still have the drive to eat because your body thinks I've
worked really hard for this. I need these calories to sustain
myself through the next day of hard work or God forbid of
famine where I go, you know, a season where I don't have access
to food. Well, you take that same human
body. You put it in the post
industrial age, you still have the drive to eat.
When you try to manufacture a famine, that's called a diet.
Your body goes, the food's right over there, bro.
Like eat it. And you're like, no, I'm not
going to. I'm in a famine.
And it says, well, it is right over there and I'm going to make
you eat it and I'm going to increase your appetite to
intolerable levels. And that's where the concept of
food noise comes in, right? The food noise becomes
absolutely overwhelming to where it's all you think, feel, hear,
smell. It's all that there is until you
eat. OK, well, that's what we're up
against. We're up against a body that has
an unbelievably powerful tool to get you to do whatever it wants
to maintain your weight. And I always, I usually share
this stat because it blew my mind when I did this math.
Let's say you maintain your weight, OK, or maybe you end the
year within 2 lbs of where you started, which is most people's
experience. No matter what people try to do,
they usually end up where they started at the end of the year,
if not a couple pounds heavier. Well, if you end the year within
2 lbs of where you started, your body nailed it.
Your insurance versus your outs to a 99.9998 percent degree of
accuracy. You take however many, how many
calories you burn in a year. It's about 1,000,000 calories
for the average male and you ended up within 7000 out of
1,000,000. Okay, think about that.
And your body kept a perfect score.
It knew exactly how much you needed to hit that number, and
you did not have to try. It drove you.
And this is where we have the illusion of control.
An extra bite here, an extra sip there, an extra, you know, pita
and hummus over there. An extra 2 bites of this or
that. You think that you're in
control, but you're not. Most people are, despite the
attempts, kind of at the beck and call of our physiologic
drives. And what I have come to terms
with is that that is OK. Telling someone, hey, I want you
to be off by 50,000 calories in a year when your body wants to
be in a deficit of 0 is equivalent to saying, hey, you
know what, just don't sleep anymore.
Like being awake is better. You can get a lot more done, so
just don't sleep, okay? Well, you might stay up for a
day and you're really tired. You might actually be able to
stay up for two days. You'd be really tired and day
three you're hallucinating and day four you're asleep standing
up. Okay.
Physiology always wins in the end.
The only way it doesn't win is through extreme application of
intense effort forever, right? You can bend it out of
tolerance, but you have to keep it bent because the minute you
let go, it springs right back to where it was.
OK. So I try to circle this back.
So I graduate residency, I get right back on the horse.
I hired a personal trainer. I started building my own gym.
I paid someone a whole lot of money to work me out six days a
week. And you know, my goal is to get
back on a bodybuilding stage. OK.
The only way I knew to do it was to do the same thing I'd always
done. But knowing now that it was
unacceptable, like now I was really hurting people around me
and I knew that it was not good. Like I, I recognize now this was
not the way, but I wasn't willing to just be fat and just
be unhealthy. So I, you know, got back on the
horse and kept trying to figure it out on my own.
Well, in walked a dear colleague of mine in the emergency
department who knew of my struggles, had had a similar
weight loss journey. And she said, hey, I heard of
this, this thing called semaglutide, it's a new drug.
It's for diabetes. And supposedly it kind of like
fixes the appetite problem and you just take it and your
appetite goes away, your food nose goes down and you just lose
weight. And I said, well, what do I need
to know about this? That sounds great.
And she said I don't think anything like apparently you
just take it and it works. To which I said like my doctor
brain fell out, my patient brain revved up into life and said
sign me the Frick up for this right now because I am so tired
of fighting this battle I don't want to do it anymore I cannot
do this anymore. So write me a script.
She wrote me the script. Semi glutide standard dosing OK
.25 starting dose for four weeks escalate to .5 and off we go.
All right, so I got the meds in the mail, read the instructions,
took my first dose, and about 24 hours later, if you've been on a
GOP 1, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Like when that stuff hits, like, you know, it, OK, your life
changes, your body changes, your physical experience changes.
And when I say change that first day after my first toast of some
glutide, it's hard to overexpress.
It's like the doors of heaven opened up and like a spotlight
and of angels singing, you know, shone down on me because I was
eating lunch and I was eating a really, really delicious meal
that I would have wide knuckle my way through to not eat two or
three of, probably eaten two or three of and then run on the
treadmill that night to burn it off.
And I got halfway through that rib eye sandwich and I all of a
sudden had the most foreign sensation, which was just that I
didn't want to eat it anymore. And I walked to the fridge and I
wrapped it up and I put it in the fridge and I walked away
from the fridge having like an out of body experience.
Like what is this? Is this what it's like to feel
full, to not fight this battle, to just be able to walk away and
just not have interest in overeating?
And I went about my day and I ate a little bit more that
evening and I went to bed and I did it again the next day.
And that first week was just absolutely amazing.
I was like, this is what life should be like.
I wasn't thinking about food all the time.
I still had good energy, I felt good, still performing well in
the gym. I just wasn't obsessing about
food and it was fantastic. Well, next week I take the same
dose .25 and 24 hours after that I didn't feel quite as good.
Let's just say the doors of heaven had closed slightly
because I just really didn't want to eat at all.
And you know, I started to have a little bit of reflux and just
kind of like, you know, this isn't like a great day, but you
know, at least I'm not like fighting my appetite.
So it's cool. Went through that week, you
know, start to get hungry by the end of the week.
Took dose 3. Dose 3, I didn't feel good at
all. So I was starting to develop
some real food aversion. I like thinking about eating was
kind of making me feel sick. And when I did eat because I
knew I had to like, I really didn't feel good.
Like kind of that overly full feeling where you're like, man,
like that just like I'm not enjoying this.
I don't feel so good and not eating very much and starting to
feel kind of fatigued and dehydrated and that kind of
thing. Week 4, even worse, more and
more sick, really not able to eat at all.
And when I did, I I really didn't feel well at all.
I had some nausea, had some bombing.
I had a little bit of diarrhea. But again, like I told you, my
doctor brain had fallen out. My patient brain was like, but
the prescription says go up. So I doubled my dose and I went
out to .5 and we all know what happened.
I didn't leave the bathroom for a week.
OK. I've like, I got really, really,
really sick. And I continued to do my best to
follow the standard dosing ladder because that was the
ticket in the study to get maximum benefit and maximum
weight loss. And I never felt good again
after that. And three months later, I was
down 30 lbs, Double thumbs up. And I got on in body scanner and
I did body composition testing and I compared to where I had
started and wouldn't you know, my body fat percentage had not
changed. I had lost almost 2 lbs of lean
mass for every pound of fat mass that I had lost.
I ended 30 lbs down at almost exactly the same body fat
percentage that I started at. I wasn't really healthier.
I was lighter. I was smaller, but I was weaker.
And on a body composition standpoint, I hadn't made any
progress. And that was equally
devastating. You know, I talked about
devastating, you know, staying in front of the mirror, being 60
lbs overweight, having, you know, defeat from the jaws of
victory, right? I'm like, well, you know, I had,
I had a lot of side effects, but at least I could lose the weight
and at least I wasn't white knuckling my way through every
day. That still felt like a win.
And then you get to the end and you go, oh, I didn't really make
much progress. I really harmed myself in the
process of basically not eating for three months, right?
And of course it makes sense in hindsight when you're basically
not eating. I was, I was eating like 6 to
900 calories a day of saltine crackers, right?
Well, of course you're going to lose muscle.
Of course you're not going to be able to perform in the gym.
Of course you're going to be underfed and under nutrient head
in that situation, but it felt like what other option is there?
I either stop the medicine and I go back to fighting that same
battle, which I wasn't willing to do, or I tough it out and I
stay on the medicine and I tolerate the side effects to be
able to get the outcome. Well, when the shoe dropped and
my body composition came back as it was, I realized this didn't
work. This isn't acceptable, but I'm
not willing to go back to the life I had before of fighting my
appetite every day. And so I became, this is the
right term. And I'm a kind of obsessive
personality, generally obsessed with how can I make this drug
work for me because I had an an intuition.
My first week was amazing. It's like my appetite was
depressed, but I still got hungry when I ate, I got full
fast, I still had good energy, I wasn't overly depleted.
And that was to me what life was supposed to be.
And then I never felt good again after that.
And I just had the question, why?
Like what happened in week two and three and four and five?
Why did I have such a variable, unpredictable experience?
And I put my doctor brain back in and I actually, you know,
started to study the drug and you'd be like, OK, what is this
drug anyway? How does it work?
What are the pharmacokinetics? How do these those interact?
And I, you know, came across kind of the standard like the
pharmacokinetic equations for semaglutide.
And I realized, OK, you, so the half life is 7 days.
That means when you take your first dose on day zero at a
week, there's still half of it left and you take the same dose
again. So let's use round numbers.
Unless you take 1 milligram. Well, you Fast forward a week
from the patient experience side, you go, I'm, I'm taking
the same dose. Great, no big deal, I'm not
going up. But actually at the end of the
week, there's still half a milligram left in your body.
So you take 1 milligram and now how much is in you?
I'll make you answer. 1.5 milligram. 1.5 So you, you
increase your levels of the medication by 50% at the same
dose. Well, OK, what did that do for
me? I didn't feel quite so good,
right? That was more medicine than I
needed. You know, week 3 I'm like, well,
thank God I'm not going up on my dose.
Well, joke is on me because that same thing repeats the next
week. Now half of that 1.5 is there.
Now there's .75. Now you add on another one, now
you're 1.75 and that cycle repeats.
It takes 4 to 5 weeks, 4 to 5 half lives to reach any, you
know, steady state for the medicine.
So four different doses, or more precisely 4 of the same dose, 4
distinct medication levels and therefore 4 distinct physiologic
experiences as a patient. OK, well, what happens in week 5
in the standard ladder? Do they let you stop?
Do they let you hold? There they go.
No, why don't you just go ahead and double your dose and then
this is the the sick joke. It doesn't stop there because
that cycle of accumulation happens again and you build up
that higher dose over the next 4 weeks.
If you follow the standard ladder for semaglutide, which is
20 weeks of escalating doses, you will have 20 weeks of dosing
and 20 distinct individual drug levels after each dose.
You will not be afforded the opportunity to have the same
experience in any week during the entire period of escalation.
OK, now here's where I'm going to really put a focus on this.
There surely there's one level of medication where you feel
your best. I don't know if that is the
level you would reach at week 1 or week 3 or week 8 or week 10,
but there is one level where you as an individual, like this is
my sweet spot, my personal doors of heaven opened up and I feel
my best. Okay, that level does exist.
Like it's obvious when you say it out loud.
Of course you're an individual. There's a huge, wide range of,
you know, potential drug levels of this medicine.
And there's one spot in there where you would feel like your
best. OK.
The problem with standard dosing is it never asks the question.
The standard dosing ladder was based on population studies to
prove population efficacy. They had absolutely nothing to
do with an individual person finding what is the right drug
level for you. OK.
And because it never asked the question, we never got an
answer. Well, the FDA approved protocol
is based on population studies, but we apply that population
study to individuals. And so it results in a
progressive escalation, which works great in the study
environment that doesn't afford the individual patient the
opportunity to stop. And to say, this is where I feel
good because even if they keep their dose the same, they still
increase. Do you understand that?
Absolutely. That is so important, even if
you stay the same. How did how did Lilly not figure
this out? How did Lilly and Novo not
figure this out? Well, there's two reasons why
they did. They do know.
For a population study, it's brilliant.
It progressively increases medication levels consistently
throughout the entire period of the study.
So they get all of these snapshots on a population level.
What does that look like? So it worked brilliantly to
prove efficacy and to progressively move people
through those medication levels to see what happened on a
population basis. But their goal, and this is not
anything we don't know, is to sell as much medicine as
possible. So the incentive is not let's
find the lowest effective dose. It's like, let's find the very
highest dose that people can tolerate that produces the
highest population weight loss. OK?
So their goal is to get as many people as possible to 2.4 of
semaglutide, to get as many people as possible to 15
milligrams to Zapatite because they make the most money and on
a population level, you get the most weight loss.
Well, that seems like a win. And on a population basis, it
kind of is. But on a personal, individual
basis, when you overshoot your level, it's catastrophic, right.
And the standard protocol doesn't give us the ability to
identify where is the level for me and if I can find it, how do
I stay there, OK, because fixed dosing isn't the answer.
If I say I'm going to, you know, stay at 1 milligram, yet it
continues to accumulate and your levels progressive increase even
at a fixed dose, then fixed dosing can't work.
OK. So we need something better.
Well, my solution to that was delightfully labor intensive and
utterly unscalable because I was like, you know what?
I wonder if I can calculate my levels based on my previous
doses. Can I?
If as long as I know all of my previous doses, can I figure out
where my level is today? And if I can figure that out,
can I then identify where's my best level and how much do I
need to take to get there every time I take a dose?
Because I went back and I traced out my curve of these
pharmacokinetic curves and I saw my first month and I could
actually see it on day three after my first dose.
I could identify this was my drug level on that day.
And that is the drug level where I felt my best.
But did I stay there? Nope.
I just went walking right up the
ladder, ran right past my therapeutic window, and I never
felt good again. Well, imagine you could go back
in time if you had a tool that could calculate your blood
levels for you. And when you had that first good
day where you're like, this is it, this is how I want to feel.
And you can identify like with a real number, this is my ideal
medication level. And then instead of just staying
on the same dose and letting it escalate and overshoot, you can
actually calculate. So how much do I need to take to
hit that again? Simple as that.
Well, it turns out that is possible.
You can calculate your levels. You can identify the level that
works best for you and you can calculate the precise dose to
get there every time you take a dose.
And you can also increase that level in a way that is visible.
Instead of saying, I'm going to increase my, I'm going to double
my dose and, you know, hope nothing bad happens, you go,
what if I could just increase my level by like 2%, three percent,
a little bit at a time? Just nudge it up to see if
that's enough to break a plateau.
Looking for what I call the minimum effective level.
What's the least medicine as opposed to the pharmaceutical
industry's goal? What's the least medicine I can
take to have adequate appetite suppression to achieve my goals?
And you know, if when you think about it that way, it's
diametrically opposed to what the standard letter does because
the standard letter says what's the highest level you can
tolerate? And I'm asking what's the lowest
level that I can take to still have a positive effect?
All right. So the way I did that was with
Google Sheets, a lot of pharmacokinetic equations and a
whole lot of manual labor calculating at every dose.
Where am I right now? Where do I want to be?
What is the exact dose that I need to take to get there?
Here's what happened. I had regained the weight
because I wasn't satisfied with the amount of muscle loss.
So I kind of regained all the muscle, got back to basically
the same place and tried again, but this time dosing with
precision, dosing with visibility and finding that
minimum effective level, which turns out was very low.
I didn't need that much medicine and I would not increase that
level until I plateaued. That was kind of the goal and
the baseline I said is I have to be able to eat enough protein, I
have to be able to eat enough plants, and I have to be able to
exercise. And if I wasn't able to do those
things, then I would turn it down.
OK, And just looking for that sweet spot all the time.
Well, what was the outcome? You know, I lost the same 30 lbs
and I barely lost any muscle and I was never sick and I had
essentially 0 bad days in terms of side effects.
And if I did have a bad day of side effects, guess what?
I just turned it down a bit, right?
Well, it worked and in fact, it worked extraordinarily well and
it worked so well and it was such a life changing epiphany
for me because all of a sudden I had that balance, right.
I was able to function in my everyday life, fulfill my
responsibilities, exercise, enjoy food when I was hungry,
lose weight in a way that was controllable and also not fight
my appetite. And so I, you know, at the same
time, I'm in the ER taking care of patient after patient after
patient after patient after patient with nausea, vomiting,
diarrhea, gastroparesis, suffering terribly with these
medicines, many of them coming in saying, you know, I couldn't
eat, but my doctor doubled my dose and now I'm super sick.
And then going like I've had pages, I asked my doctor, please
don't go up. Like I'm already, I feel
terrible. And I said, well, that's what it
says to do to maximize your outcome, to get the, you know,
it's not from a place of being malevolent.
It's like, no, you need to lose weight.
Being at the highest dose is how you're going to get there.
We got to push through. We got to persevere.
Like you'll adapt that, you know, you'll just feel bad for a
while. OK, Well, what happens is you
feel bad for a long time and then you Max out your dose and
you plateau and you have nowhere to go.
That's what really happens in real life.
And so I'm seeing that in the ER and I'm going, OK, my life has
forever changed. I've somehow stumbled upon the
key to sustainable GLP one use to get the outcome that I
actually, you know, need. And I see all these people that
are just being mowed down by standard dosing and by this
relentless accumulation of drug levels that overshoots their
individual sweet spot. And so I basically, you know,
quit. I retired from ER essentially.
I still work one shift a month. I opened my own clinic and I
opened it specifically to see if this worked for other people
too, and to figure out how I could help to make this like
scalable and part of the standard of care.
Again, not scalable at all. The way I did it for a an entire
year as I accumulated patients and took care of patients, I
calculated every patient's levels at every single dose for
every patient for a whole year. OK.
The amount of patients I was able to do that for, it resulted
in a cohort of 114 patients because anything more than that,
like it was taking up every minute of the day, OK.
But I ended up with a cohort of 114 patients that we did level
based dosing on that. We found their minimum effective
level and we didn't increase until until they plateaued and
when they plateaued would increase by approximately 2%.
Well, what was the outcome? We punched the numbers and I'm
so like, I just get happy every time I say these things.
They lost weight faster than the trials on half the medicine.
Incredible. They lost weight faster than the
trials shooting for a Max dose on half the medicine and some
people on 1/10 of the medicine, a 20th of the medicine.
We had patients that literally I've been have anecdotes I can
share all day. I had a patient that I started
her on, you know, she told me, hey, I'm really sensitive to
medicine. So like maybe start me on like a
really low dose. And he says, don't worry, I got
you. We'll start you on .9 of
tirzepatide. That's like a third of the
starting dose. And she got violently sick.
She had nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, didn't leave the
bathroom for three days. Lost like 10 lbs in the first
like week. And none of those are pounds you
want to lose, right? Well, understand her dosing.
Well, imagine what she would have done at 2.5.
Let's think about that. OK?
I already cut her to a third. Well, you know, under the old
school mentality, you go, well, let's at least just hold you
there. Let's not increase.
Well, jokes on her because if I had kept her at .9, she wouldn't
have been at .9, she would have been at 1.4.
OK, I really want the listeners to understand that if you hold
someone's dose, you don't stop the accumulation.
OK, So what did I do for her? We calculated her level.
What was her peak at .9? And let's drop from there.
I'm not going to give you a dose that's going to put you there
because that made you really sick.
Well, the numbers came out. That dose was actually a tenth
of the starting dose. It was like .25 of tirzepatide,
so a tenth of the starting dose. And wouldn't you know, she lost
a pound a week, every week after that.
And she reached her goal weight, which was like 25 lbs down in
about two to three months. Never had another bad day,
didn't have any more side effects, and exited to
maintenance, never having taken the starting dose of
tirzepatide. OK, she's the exception.
OK, she had, she was extraordinarily sensitive to
tirzepatide, but when you think about that, she lost 25 lbs on
1/10 of the starting dose of ters appetite.
Why would she ever take more than that?
Like if you can find that level for that person, why would you
ever go up? There's nothing but downside if
you're already, if your appetite is suppressed enough to lose
weight, there is nothing but pain on the end of going up,
right? So being able to find that
level, stay there and hold is the key to sustainability.
Because if you go up unnecessarily, I, I want you to
really understand this, There's a cost.
You drive your body to adapt to that higher level of level of
medicine and you drive your body to be dependent on that higher
level of medicine. We've all seen it, right?
You have a patient who's on 15 milligrams of tirzepatide and
they stop, they are absolutely ravenous and they will eat
absolutely everything inside and they will regain weight faster
than they would have otherwise because their body is now tuned
to need that degree of GLP one stimulation.
The answer is keep your level as low as possible for as long as
possible to give yourself a chance to taper down and taper
off these medicines successfully.
It's a lot easier to maintain on one milligram per week of
tirzepatide than it is to maintain at 15, right?
But once you March yourself up to 15, it's really hard to come
down. And then you get stuck.
And you have this huge cohort of patients who are like prisoners
of high doses of GLP ones, and they can't come off.
But they're also not making progress because they plateaued.
They've, you know, shredded their metabolism.
They've lost all their muscle mass, and they just can't make
any progress. So then they're they're really
stuck. They can't come off, but they
also maxed out the benefit. Does that make sense?
100% and Speaking of percentages, This is why you've
achieved a 0% patient dropout rate like that.
I heard that statistic from Doctor Melissa Peterson and it
blew my mind because I mean, in the trials we're having a 27
percent, 34% dropout rate with. Oh, it's worse than.
That it's. Crazy real life.
It's 40 to 70% of people quit within the first year.
Wow. It's not because they've reached
their goal, it's because they either are too sick and can't
tolerate it, or they plateaued and they're not making progress
anymore, or it costs too much money.
Well, guess what? All three of those are solved
with level based dosing because you take the minimum amount of
medicine, which results in the in the fewest possible side
effects and cost the least money because you're buying the least
medicine. OK, so yes, 0%.
We did not have a single patient in our entire clinic quit due to
side effects since since the first day of level based dosing.
Because if they experience side effects, we don't tell them,
tough it out, hold there and see what happens.
We go, you know what, let's turn it down.
You don't need to be vomiting all day long and unable to eat
to lose weight. So we go, if that's your
experience, we don't tolerate it.
You turn it down and make sure that they find that sweet spot
again. Yeah.
So we never had a single patient drop out due to side effects.
Now in Full disclosure, of course, we have had people leave
the clinic due to cost. They lost their job.
You know, they had a change of experience, They reached their
goal weight, they wanted to cycle off the medicine.
But those are elective choices. They weren't forced off because
they couldn't tolerate it and they weren't forced off because
they were jacked up to the highest possible dose and then
got stuck. And so it's a, it's a huge
advance for sure. And it's made an enormous
difference in in our patient population.
Really, it's incredible. And we were talking before we
hopped on here to record and you said your your clinic is just
inundated like you, you have too many people to be able to serve
at this point. So obviously this is brilliant
information to get out to other physicians.
What advice do you have for clinicians who are prescribing
GLP ones but struggling with patient adherence or side
effects? Yeah.
So the first thing I would say is I have several things I'll
try to stay organized. 1 is just know that this happens.
Understand the pharmacokinetics of these long acting medicines.
Understand that just because you hold someone at the same dose
does not mean that you are giving them the same amount of
medicine as far as their bodily experience.
So just understand how it works and then start to formulate a
plan for how to deal with it because it is it just is these
is is how what happens when you give fixed doses on a standard
schedule for these medicines. So how are you going to deal
with it? Well, I would suggest that you
deal with it by calling me because we did develop an app
that does all of this for you, calculate your drug levels,
calculates the amount of medicine you need to take with
every dose to hit that drug level, and allows you to up
titrate and down titrate with precision.
The app exists. It took me a year to build.
We don't use Google Sheets anymore.
All this happens relatively automatically in our patient
population and we are to the point where we can allow other
clinics to use it. OK.
So if you're interested, if you have a clinic and you want to do
level based dosing with your patients, absolutely give me a
call. We will show you what it is, how
it works and you can decide if it's something you want to use
for your patients at this point in time.
This is not forever, but it is free, OK?
We're not selling it or licensing it in any way because,
and this is just the reality, I built it for myself and my
clinic and it is not built to any particular specification of
any sort of like, you know, SoC 2 compliance, you know,
healthcare, you know, technology, whatever.
It's a bootstrapped app that I built myself, all right.
So it's not something I can really sell, but it certainly is
something that other people can use.
Now we are developing an app that will be a commercially
available version that is built to spec, that actually checks
all the boxes that the FDA reasonably really cares about
for a piece of software that helps patients making medical
decisions. OK, That's not something you can
just put out in the world and let people use, you know,
without some rigor. All right, but in a limited
fashion for specific clinics who want to, you know, trial this,
we absolutely can make it available with appropriate
caveats and think sign just saying, hey, this is what it is.
It's an in house clinic developed app.
It's not, you know, a Google product you can just download
and pay for and it's going to work perfectly every time.
Like that's not the reality. It's what I would describe as an
advanced beta product, but it is available and we are onboarding
clinics to allow them to try this on their patients as long
as they walk into with eyes wide open.
And hopefully I've learned with technology, the timelines are
very tricky, but within three to six months, hopefully we'll have
a piece of software that anyone can license and actually use
that scale. Amazing.
Literally amazing. If you're a patient, we do have
capacity to take care of people that are interested in dosing
this way. It just depends what state
you're from. You know, like for example, I'm
licensed in, you know, 42 states, but I can't take care of
all of these patients myself. So I have a team of nurse
practitioners and, and other people in my clinic that also
take care of patients, but we're not all licensed in all 42
states. So it's like we can, we can take
care of the patients that come to us from states we're licensed
in that we have schedule availability for.
So I guess what I would say is if you're a patient, please
reach out. We will tell you if we can see
you. And if we can't see you, we'll
tell you when we can see you. Very helpful.
So we have a waiting list and you know, we're, we're getting
through people as as much as we can as quickly as we can.
You know, we're a, we're a small clinic.
You know, we're not a franchise chain with 100 clinics and 200
clinicians. It's me and two MPs, you know,
trying to do a cool thing with an app that I developed to
really solve my own problem, you know, But it's turned into
something really important. As most brilliant inventions are
to solve a very real personable problem for people.
So I mean, I was just, I was enamored by it the first time I
saw it. You know, reading your white
paper, that's something else that people can do.
They can go to your website, they can download that white
paper. They can read all of the data
that you've collected from those 114 patients over the year and
how the, you know, basically that the science of the app,
I've looked at it, it's incredible and I'm just sad you
guys aren't in California yet, so keep me updated.
Well, so my California license came through this week.
Did it now. Congratulations.
All right, stay tuned after. Yeah.
So stay, stay tuned. And you know, we're working
towards getting our entire team license in as many states as we
can to serve as many people as we can.
But I think that the the shortest term answer for most
patients is talk to your doctor, talk to your clinician, share
this podcast, you know, refer them to my website to learn
about it. Give them a copy the white
paper, help them understand there's a different way of
dosing these medicines that is extraordinarily more effective
than the standard ladder. And here's the thing, and I know
we're overtime, I don't blame doctors for doing this.
They don't have the time to do what I did.
What I did is completely not scalable in any way, shape, form
or fashion. OK.
I made a lot less money that year than I worked in the in the
ER because 100 patients isn't really enough to keep the doors
open. All right?
Primary care practices, you have to see a lot of patients.
You have to see them really quickly.
And the only way to really do that without this technology is
to see them really fast, to give them a standardized set of
instructions, and to see them in three months.
That's just the way the system works, and it's not their fault
they don't have time to go through and calculate every
single patient's levels and make these intelligent, personalized
decisions without a piece of technology that will do it for
them. So that's kind of the unlock
here is giving them a tool where they don't have to do the math.
The patient just knows what to take because the app does all
that math for them. OK, that is scalable.
That is something that my dream genuinely is for this to be the
standard of care for every single person, whoever takes an
injectable GLP 1 to dose in this method because it is so superior
to just throwing darts in the dark.
So if you're interested, go to voafit.com, VOA, fit.com.
If you go to voafit.com back slash my level, there's an
explainer in there. It goes through all the
pharmacokinetics, how this works, how the app kind of helps
to make these decisions. And there's also links to the
clinical white paper that I wrote just described in this
cohort how we did it, why we did it, what the outcomes are and
kind of what the future holds well.
That's going to be my next question.
So you preempted it, which is perfect. voafit.com, yes.
And I've been to the website, fantastic resources there.
I mean the case studies that you have are phenomenal.
They really are. So hopefully this isn't the last
time you're on the podcast. I cannot wait to get an update
with the next cohort and the next data set that you get
because I just think this is this really is the future of of
GOP ones. So.
For the this to become the future of GOP ones, you have to
actually prove it in a prospective fashion.
And so that's what's coming next.
You know, we're going to register an IRB trial.
We're going to get as many clinics as possible to treat as
many patients as possible in this way.
And if we can get a cohort big enough and reproduce those
outcomes at scale, then big pharma will have to listen.
And the reason they will have to listen is because they are in
crisis with the attrition rate of these medicines.
If 70% of your customers can't stay on the meds.
That's a big, big problem. Just makes me laugh to think
like any other illness, you know, people will be like, Nah,
maybe not, but weight loss people are like just just give
me a little bit more, let's try it.
Let's. Try it a little bit right
Exactly, exactly. And so if we can reproduce this
at scale and prove that you need half a medicine or less to lose
weight, even faster if you right size the dose of these medicines
to the individual person. I, I really do have that dream
that they will be open to making this a legitimate FDA approved
someday, the method of dosing these medicines that will just
open it up to the whole world and we'll see.
But the good news is it doesn't have to be FDA approved for
individual clinicians to do it. If you're a clinician who wants
to do this, you can do it today. Give me a call.
We'll set you up in the app. We'll get you started taking
care of your patients since. We'll see how it goes.
And we'll use it to collect a lot of data and hopefully make
the world a lot better for a lot of people down the road.
I love the idea of people being able to feel good on their
medication. As a former drug Rep, I feel
hesitant about the possibility of some of these larger
pharmaceutical companies, you know, buying into something that
cuts into their profits, even if it's more efficacious and better
for them. So I'm definitely curious the.
Only way is if it cuts the attrition rate to the point
where it's it's revenue neutral. Sure, that makes sense, You know
that? That's the the beauty is though,
I think the math actually works because if they take half the
medicine, but they still get the equivalent, you know, degree of
weight loss and you cut your attrition rate from 70 to 0.
And that's an exaggeration. Of course different people will
quit for other reasons, but there's a chance for that to be
economically viable and if that is the case, then there's a
chance for it to be accepted. So love it, We shall see.
We shall see. Best of luck and
congratulations, Doctor Ellis. Very cool work.
Just really incredible stuff that you're getting out to the
community of GOP 1 users. Thank you.
I'll just enter this. You know, I am a doctor.
I'm treating patients. But this was a passion of mine
because I was a patient and I still am a patient.
I still take GOP ones. I still am not willing to go
back to a world where I have to battle my appetite every single
day and be toxic and obsessive to have a healthy physique.
But what I've arrived upon with a lot of, you know, toil to get
to this point is where I know my levels.
I know exactly what I need to take to feel the way that I want
to feel for that particular season in my life.
I can go up, I can go down. I can cycle down, cycle off.
I can cycle back on I it puts me in control of my day-to-day
experience and allows me to live my life in a way that's
balanced. I feel like with these
medicines, so often people are controlled by the meds.
The Med doesn't allow you to eat.
The Med doesn't allow you to, you know, do XY or Z.
And I think that's also wrong. So the goal is for you to be in
control of your own appetite, for you to be in control of your
own day-to-day experience. That doesn't mean take as high
of a dose of medicine as possible.
So you can't eat for six months. You know, it's really the goal
here, I think is freedom. If anyone that struggle with
obesity, it's like, I just want to live life and be healthy.
Like please and have it not be so hard and with level based
dosing I think that's legitimately possible for almost
day one. It does sound like a very
exciting stuff. I appreciate you, Doctor Ellis,
coming on and sharing all this fantastic information and giving
us a little glimpse into the future of of healthcare with
regards to peptide. So thank you for your time today
and thank you everyone for listening to the podcast today.
It was wonderful. Thank you so much for having me
on.