1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,760 And today I have special guest Jane Bolin on the line and we 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,560 dive deep into her research and work at the Nokes Foundation and 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,440 the Eat Better South Africa program. 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,040 She is making waves in South Africa and beyond to just 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,720 enlighten physicians on using a carbohydrate restriction from a 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,480 therapeutic standpoint approach to their practices. 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,880 She is making a big impact in just improving the food 9 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,960 available to people in impoverished communities in 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,479 Africa and just enlightening people worldwide honestly as to 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,680 the benefits of a therapeutic ketogenic diet from a disease 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,040 prevention standpoint and just how to improve lifestyle and use 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,520 lifestyle intervention as opposed to pharmaceutical 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,560 intervention to truly find one's health and well-being So 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,080 thoroughly enjoy the conversation. 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,920 I've got a ton of respect for what she's accomplished within 17 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,000 those different organizations and what she's doing going 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,920 forward, and I've got no doubt that you will take something 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,560 from this podcast and want to just get involved and learn 20 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,680 more. So without further delay, sit 21 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,240 back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Jane 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,920 and we are live. Jane, how are you? 23 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:17,480 I'm really good. Thank you and you. 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,440 I'm doing wonderful. Well, where? 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,120 Where does the accent come from? I must know. 26 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,720 South African. Do you think I have an accent? 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,080 Yeah, yeah. I get that a lot too. 28 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,720 Mine mine's just a southern drawl. 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,280 I could never identify the city, but obviously it's North 30 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,400 American. But where I can't I I'm not 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,720 tuned enough in to know. Down South, for sure. 32 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,360 Down South, well talk to me about South African nutrition. 33 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,480 I know that's what that's where Noakes is, that's where a lot 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,720 has been going on in the in the space of low carbohydrate to 35 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,600 consumption from a therapeutic standpoint, what what brought 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,120 you to South Africa to begin with? 37 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,720 I'm curious. So yeah, I'm from, I'm here, my 38 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,800 mum's British and I am. I was born here. 39 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,400 So I've lived here for much of my life and kind of went and 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,639 travelled off to university, spent about a decade travelling 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,640 abroad and then came back here very much with the commitments, 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,040 my love for this African continent and kind of knowing 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,840 how much, how much help. I don't want to say help because 44 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,640 that sounds demeaning, but how much needs to come here, how 45 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,080 much knowledge we need here, how amazing how much we have to 46 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,680 learn from here. And then kind of getting into my 47 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,840 career here, it was became very, very obvious to me just how bad 48 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,720 nutrition, the state of healthcare and nutrition is in 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,280 this country. And I'm not going to say it's 50 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,720 worse than other places because I think we're, you know, all in 51 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,320 the same boat where we've we've seen that something has to 52 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,280 change. And in particular here we have a 53 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,160 very unique country in that 85% of our country doesn't have 54 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:57,640 private healthcare and we don't have really good sufficient 55 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:00,760 state healthcare. So that means that people don't 56 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,240 get the care that they need and particularly when it comes to 57 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,280 chronic diseases, sometimes they don't get diagnosed correctly. 58 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,800 And then when they are, they just have like a typical Type 2 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,320 diabetic, for example, goes once every three months and they see 60 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,640 an educator or a nurse and they just kind of, you know, 61 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:19,080 typically shout to that because their blood sugar and the blood 62 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,720 pressure's gone up a lot. And then they sent home back 63 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,480 with the same old guidelines diet. 64 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,840 So this is really where the work that I do and that we do came 65 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,360 in, was we realized we wanted to make a change and make things a 66 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,960 bit better for people that were suffering here on the ground. 67 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,160 And then our work became much more global in the other 68 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,280 projects that we work on. I love it. 69 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,920 I love it. Do you feel like Africa as a 70 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,640 whole is is like that or is South Africa kind of unique in 71 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,920 that regard? Look, the different countries 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,120 are different and obviously what we face and we see a lot more of 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,640 here is malnutrition in the form of stunting and underweight, but 74 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,760 the, you know and or obesity. So we see both. 75 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,440 We typically see like women in South Africa have a 61% obesity 76 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,400 rate, men it's a bit lower, children tend to be underweight. 77 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,000 So we see all the same problems as the diet, westernize and then 78 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,680 as we go kind of up into the continent, into more rural 79 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,279 areas, people are eating differently. 80 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,760 So it is very difficult to kind of say the whole continent 81 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,760 seeing the same problems. But there is the same story, 82 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,360 which is the story that you face in North America which is that 83 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,880 refined carbs and auto processed food has taken over agrarian 84 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,480 kind of indigent lifestyles and diets. 85 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,320 And people are just the. It seems to be that the poorer 86 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,640 you are, the worst food you have access to and the more junk you 87 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,000 eat purely not only because of a budgetary story but there are a 88 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,520 lot of aspects that play into that. 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,680 So it's about like cold chain management, access to 90 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,480 refrigerated healthy foods, access to fresh foods and then 91 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,320 kind of mass Chinese imports of things like what we have here 92 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,240 which is called 2 minute noodles and things like that as well as 93 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,880 highly over processed grains. And that's up to you know, a 94 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,560 typical plate in a local diet in our country is like well over 95 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,040 90% refined carbs. So you we're going to call it 96 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,960 sugars for our purposes today, and that's what people are 97 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,960 eating. The macros are much more off 98 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,680 than we'd like to see and then we typically see in other 99 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,960 countries. So we've got a bigger fight 100 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,520 because it's kind of the combination of the terrible diet 101 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,720 and poverty, which leads to many other complexities and factors 102 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,240 that play in to a person's health outlook. 103 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,000 I was talking to a gentleman a few weeks back and he he's been 104 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,200 spending quite a bit of time in some of the indigenous tribes 105 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,840 there in Africa. And he was like he had actually 106 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:51,760 inducted into the tribe and he had been going on these 107 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,000 traditional hunting trips with them and consuming a pretty much 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,120 you know, traditional diet amongst that tribe. 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,440 And and everyone was healthy, everyone was very active. 110 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,160 There wasn't any obesity. But then he was talking about 111 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,680 how in some of the neighboring tribes there's been just this 112 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,120 massive influx of, you know, foods brought in from other 113 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,120 countries, subsidies brought in all of the, you know, packaged, 114 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,880 processed foods. And then like you see a very 115 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,240 significant decline in their health amongst these indigenous 116 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,000 groups as they've consumed more and more of that food, which is 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,840 just a a sad reality. And I feel like here in the 118 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:28,360 States, you know, the the majority is is, you know, 119 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,280 obesity. I forget what the current trends 120 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:33,520 and demographic are, but it's like every single state is. 121 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,360 Terrible. I mean, like Arkansas where I'm 122 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,560 at is one of the worst from an obesity standpoint and it's the 123 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,240 the trajectory seems to be going in the wrong way for sure. 124 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,520 Absolutely. And I think that is the tragedy 125 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,440 is that what we see is people that come out of straight out of 126 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,720 a much more traditional lifestyle into the West or the 127 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,520 toxic diet have an A much worse reaction. 128 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,480 So like in South Africa, for example, the Koisan people, 129 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,840 which are the original bushmen from this land, they live very 130 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:05,240 indigenously and they live off the land, but of course they are 131 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,600 pushed into cities and they tend to have an astronomically high 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,160 type one diabetic ratio and just terrible poor health problems 133 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,560 associated with that immediate shock. 134 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,520 It's almost like, you know, their bodies are so much 135 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,960 healthier to some extent and historically they haven't been 136 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,760 exposed slowly to the atrocities of the Western diet. 137 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,880 But what's good and what we do see on our programs is that 138 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,920 people that are kind of naive to the ketogenic diet have this 139 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,160 unbelievably positive response as well. 140 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,040 So like, we see women on our programs really fully reverse a 141 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,760 lot of their conditions, you know, within a couple of weeks. 142 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Whereas someone like myself who's been like trundling along, 143 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,840 trying different things for decades, the results are more 144 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,840 difficult, more complex, more subtle. 145 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,840 I have to work harder for my health. 146 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,720 So there's there's pros and cons to it, but I mean we just, we 147 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,960 know, you know, that the diet that people are being given and 148 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:03,920 told to eat is not sustainable. It's not suitable for human 149 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,440 consumption a lot of the time and we have to do something 150 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,320 about that. So that's a lot of the work that 151 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,240 I do and that we do within our foundation side of our work. 152 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,640 And it's kind of where the nutrition network came from 153 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,680 because we wanted to train doctors to work with these 154 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,720 programs that we run in underserved communities and we 155 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,600 didn't have doctors and medical professionals that understood 156 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,480 the work and that supported it. So we kind of eventually gave up 157 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,640 trying to explain this to them and created a training approach 158 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,720 that would allow for the implementation of better 159 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,240 ketogenic practice, you know, through medical with medical 160 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,480 support, rather than people having to kind of do it on their 161 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,440 own as riddles. Yeah, no, I I love that. 162 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,160 I feel like in in the States it's there's like a dichotomy 163 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,560 because there seems to be this massive growing demographic of 164 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,240 you know, obesity and type 2 diabetes and and unhealthiness. 165 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,880 But it also seems that the popularity of the ketogenic diet 166 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,720 and you know this select group that that has dove deeper into 167 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,400 nutrition that is in the know so to speak, like that also seems 168 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,640 to be a growing demographic. Not at the rate the obesity 169 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,080 demographic is growing, but it seems like there is certainly a 170 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,040 growing population of people in America especially that are well 171 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,080 versed in keto and understand its benefits and you know, live 172 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,760 by its principles. Is that the case in Africa and 173 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,400 South Africa specifically or is the the concept of hedging that 174 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,360 lesser known? I think it's similar to the 175 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,720 states, but you know, the states is just bigger and it's where 176 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,680 things happen and when. When, when people catch on to 177 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,040 things in the States, like you've run with it, You guys are 178 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,960 so amazing at kind of taking what's good and working it into 179 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,440 your system in a very quick and proactive democratic way. 180 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,600 So like for example, our business that we started the 181 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,200 nutrition network, we really created it, as I said, for the 182 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,480 South Africa. We wanted to train South African 183 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,240 doctors and we had a goal of training 33 physicians in year 184 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,880 one. And what happened happened was 185 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:04,720 we trained 1 1/2 thousand mostly American doctors in year one. 186 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,160 So it was, which was great. I mean, it was a wonderful 187 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,240 problem to have in terms of growing so quickly and kind of 188 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,280 taking on, you know, new learnings. 189 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:18,560 But yeah, the States is still the kind of perhaps leader in 190 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,680 the consciousness around Quito, which is amazing because it 191 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,320 means that we're going to get somewhere quicker. 192 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,400 You know, the world watches what's happening in the health 193 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,040 and fitness category in the States and we need everyone on 194 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,200 board here. We've got to change things fast. 195 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,680 I would, I would like my son and his children in the next 196 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:37,200 generation not to have to go through this kind of journey. 197 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 We've all been through of figuring this out for ourselves. 198 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800 The science is out. The consensus is out. 199 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,600 We know what's right. It's just a question of kind of 200 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,320 moving through the system change process now and the the kind of 201 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,160 scientific complexity of agreeing on the science. 202 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,560 And that's a big job in itself, of course. 203 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,480 Totally. Have there been a lot of 204 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,280 physicians in Africa that have proactively seek you out because 205 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,480 they recognize there is a you know growing population of their 206 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,040 patient pool that is getting sicker and sicker? 207 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,680 Like are they just looking for alternatives and finding you or 208 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:13,760 how's that work? No. 209 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,200 And that's what we kind of would like to do with our work is, is 210 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,120 take it more actively into Africa. 211 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,240 We've got there were a couple of pockets that are really 212 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,920 excellent. So we've got an amazing Kenyan 213 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,640 clinic that really you know there are a couple of stand out 214 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,600 individuals who have found this work and we've got a couple of 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,400 amazing Ethiopian physicians that do bring keto into their 216 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,280 practice. But beyond that, it's very, very 217 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,120 scattered and seems to be not a priority. 218 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,200 So a couple of months ago, I was at an endocrinology, medical 219 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,320 endocrinology conference. It's the first time we've ever 220 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,480 been invited, which was fantastic to be invited. 221 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,880 But of course, also just like going into a foreign world 222 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,080 because it is so pharmaceutically LED 223 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,600 endocrinology. And there was an amazing, 224 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,040 amazing professor from Kenya who gave an interesting talk. 225 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,240 He's an endocrinologist and he talked about, you know, how 226 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,640 they're working so hard to get insulin into rural areas. 227 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,200 And of course, I went to him afterwards and I said come. 228 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,840 I took him a copy of our textbook as a gift. 229 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,120 And I said come on, you know, like, surely you guys have just 230 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,440 like knowing how difficult it is just to have refrigeration in 231 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,480 these areas. I mean, having travelled in 232 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,360 Kenya and understood the healthcare sector there, it's 233 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000 very, very difficult to find a place that has a good quality, 234 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,640 stable fridge, you know, that, you know, is going to be able to 235 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,520 look after this insulin and the way it needs. 236 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,360 And he said, well yeah, I reversed my Tab 2 diabetes and 237 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,000 lost 40 kilograms on the keto diet. 238 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,280 But unfortunately I'm funded by healthcare, so I can't teach it 239 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,360 and do research on it. That has got to be so. 240 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,520 Frustrating. Yeah. 241 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,680 It's like he actually himself eats that way, but he has not 242 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,520 found a way himself. And I think that's the tragedy 243 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,000 of our times is that we're seeing so many doctors and 244 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,280 physicians and and incredible people that are stuck in the 245 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,600 healthcare system and are quite trapped. 246 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,360 And they tend to come to us at a point of desperation, either 247 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,480 from their own health process or a family member or as well as 248 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,600 when patients have kind of throw an egg on their faces and have 249 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,960 reversed the diabetes and gone against their advice and they've 250 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,480 had to change. But it's not easy. 251 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,480 It's a difficult journey to take at the moment as a physician or 252 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,160 as when you're bound by the ethics, which ties you into the 253 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,640 obligation to recommend the dietary guidelines of the 254 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,920 country that you live in when those guidelines are wrong. 255 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,040 So, So what was your, what was your back story? 256 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,400 Were you in the traditional system in the beginning and then 257 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,040 broke free of that or what was your catalyst for? 258 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,360 Yeah. So I'm a patient and a 259 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,040 researcher and I I came from a marketing background and I just 260 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,080 really, I worked in kind of, I started my career working in 261 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,960 pharmaceutical marketing and I used to travel through Africa 262 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,200 doing research for our largest pharmaceutical company into how 263 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,000 to take drugs into new markets. So I spent a lot of time in 264 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,560 hospitals and pharmacies around Africa talking to people and 265 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,000 understanding what's going on on the ground in different 266 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,720 countries. And from there I moved into lots 267 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,280 of other different brand places and research. 268 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,440 And when I came into the kind of non profit sector, I really was 269 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:25,080 just a desperate to find a way to bring meaning to the work 270 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,880 that I did and the knowledge that I'd got from around the 271 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,080 world. But also my health was an all 272 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,520 time low and my metabolic disease had kind of escalated 273 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,200 over decades, over 2 decades. So I was 21 when I was first had 274 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,320 first the signs of you know, I was had PCOS and all the typical 275 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,400 story. I just struggled and started 276 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,720 gaining weight and kept going further and further into what's 277 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,680 the sort of inverted commas health diet. 278 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,920 I became vegan. I I followed the Low GI diet to 279 00:14:54,920 --> 00:15:00,000 the book for a decade and did more and more exercise and got 280 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,040 probably sicker and sicker along the journey. 281 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,600 So for me, it was a personal and a kind of commitment to really 282 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:12,560 find a way to work in bringing commercial knowledge into the 283 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,040 nonprofit and biological science or research category. 284 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,360 And then that came with a huge shock because I I kind of sat 285 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,160 down at my first in my first week in the job and was like 286 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,400 going through the budget thinking they've got to be a 287 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,600 couple of zeros missing off these numbers. 288 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,600 You know, where's the money? Why is there not a lot more 289 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,040 money, a lot more funding, a lot more sample sizing, You know, a 290 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,640 lot. Why are we not grossing out 291 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,920 sample sizes much bigger? All the typical questions that 292 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,040 people ask, you know, how is it possible that we can spend 293 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,240 millions on beer bottle advertising and consumer testing 294 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,840 for product lines, which is ultimately for packaging 295 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,200 enhancement in the corporate world? 296 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,160 And then we come into like the most important possible thing we 297 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,920 could ever do for humanity, which is understanding what we 298 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,320 should eat. And they're these tiny little 299 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,240 budgets, if any. So that's really been my 300 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,760 commitment and my kind of work over the last 10 years. 301 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,760 And then the foundation I work in is to try and bring budgets 302 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,200 and to fund researchers that are independent. 303 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,080 I love it. I think that is like you got to 304 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,320 kind of go the independent, right, it seems because if 305 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,680 you're going from the traditional, you know, top down 306 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,800 approach like there's so many, so much bureaucratic red tape, 307 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,080 you have to wait through that no progress has ever really made. 308 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,680 Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, obviously the 309 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,560 brightest researchers get offered the best jobs on the 310 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,840 best budgets and the best projects, and those are the 311 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,360 biggest ones or the most funding. 312 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,920 And those tend to be through big pharma and big, big business, 313 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,960 big brand. So what we wanted to do, and 314 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,280 what we try to do as a foundation is to find ways to 315 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,480 support people that are independent thinkers and that 316 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,920 are questioning the science in new ways. 317 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,120 You know, challenges, which is what Professor Noakes is to to 318 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,160 find a career path for themselves where they can 319 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,520 actually do the work they want to do rather than just doing 320 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,079 corporate work. Totally. 321 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,319 And it's a big job, you know, it's not easy. 322 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:13,079 It's not easy to get those to land those grants, to fund those 323 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,319 researchers. And they do, especially the good 324 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,319 ones. Of course, they want to earn 325 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,359 well. They want to be on big growing 326 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,560 projects. And how do we do that when 327 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,359 there's kind of there's so much resistance? 328 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,080 And that was basically the catalyst for nutrition network 329 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,080 as an entity because that's basically lowering the barrier 330 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,600 to entry for getting this knowledge in front of people 331 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,720 that are on the front lines and making a difference. 332 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,160 Right, absolutely. And we kind of we actually 333 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,520 created it's because we wanted to fund the research. 334 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,320 So it's majority owned by our non profit the Knox Foundation. 335 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,560 And you know it was partially my my own burnout of fundraising 336 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,360 for many years trying to get these funds. 337 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,080 I eventually went to our very very open minded and awesome 338 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,640 board at the Knox Foundation and we we built this stand alone 339 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,080 kind of social enterprise with the view to fund the work that 340 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,720 we do but through you know 'cause related for profit. 341 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,160 So the nutrition network sells courses and it charges money for 342 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,800 them and it's it's a growing entity that employs people that 343 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,400 at least you know the majority shares go to something that we 344 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,720 believe is doing the good work. So we we believe we found a 345 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,520 sweet spot and we we so grateful actually that we it's had so 346 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,680 much support and the kind of positive encouragement through 347 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,960 globally we're in over 100 countries now. 348 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,360 We've trained over 8000 physicians and we're growing. 349 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,200 We're hoping to really 8000 sounds like a lot and it is a 350 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,960 lot when you look at kind of the potential ripple effect of that. 351 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,200 But we're looking at kind of, you know, there are so many 352 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,120 physicians in North America alone that have never been 353 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,520 exposed to this work really. And it's kind of we, we don't 354 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,840 want to preach to the converted. It's like how do we actually get 355 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,680 a doctor that's just sitting kind of getting through the day, 356 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,240 giving, you know, people more and more diabetes and habitats 357 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,760 of drugs and putting everyone on to statins to start to see 358 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,000 things from a different perspective in a way that 359 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,800 doesn't threaten their careers? And that's of course asking a 360 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,640 lot. You know, it's it's a big 361 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,360 journey to transforming your practice. 362 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,440 And it's a bit like Pandora's box. 363 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,080 Once you start on the journey, it's very hard to stay in your 364 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,440 kind of original career trajectory because you start to 365 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,160 question everything and start to bring in things that are 366 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,680 controversial and difficult. And what we see is a lot of our 367 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,080 physicians have come to us. And so our community come 368 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,360 because they're feeling very lonely, like they're kind of 369 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,880 alone in a hospital in say, the Philippines where no one else 370 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,640 does the work they do, understands it and it's like 371 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,360 there's no one there for them to kind of bounce ideas off. 372 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,800 So we've got to grow quickly. We've got to get medicine to 373 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,080 really include the knowledge of therapeutic carbohydrates 374 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,760 restriction. It doesn't mean we necessarily 375 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,560 want to replace. Medicines, although that you 376 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,160 know personally, I would love it if we could to some extent. 377 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,640 But we do need to be included in the mix so that at least when a 378 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,440 patient comes to a physician and they are diagnosed as let's say 379 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,360 type 2 diabetic or hypertensive, they're not just given 380 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,320 allopathic drugs like at least they should be just, you know, 381 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,360 given with informed consent and knowledge. 382 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,840 They should be given the choice to make and try a lifestyle and 383 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,880 ketogenic approach first. Well, I'm not sure what it's. 384 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Like, you know, in the setting there in Africa, but here in the 385 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,160 states, like they don't even discuss nutrition. 386 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,640 Typically when you go into a doctor's, you know, visit like 387 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,800 for a primary care physician annual checkup or you know, 388 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,560 people that are diabetic and going in for treatment there, 389 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,680 like the topic of the nutrition or lifestyle intervention is 390 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,080 rarely ever even broached. It's mostly just, you know, 391 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,600 pharmaceutical interventions. And I mean, how tragic is that? 392 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,560 Because what we know now is that it doesn't really work. 393 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,720 You know, those drugs don't work over the long term and the side 394 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,480 effects are so massive. So it's like the question is 395 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,200 why? And then you have to start to 396 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,360 look at the ethics of why not and like whether it is actually 397 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:18,080 ethical to have a diabetic sitting in front of you and not 398 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,200 to tell them and give them the option, you know to do something 399 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,840 different and to try alongside what they want. 400 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,080 You know what the drugs are an alternative approach and and we 401 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,960 start to, I mean we don't want to get angry. 402 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,320 You know, like when I first kind of opened up this and discovered 403 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,000 that I'd been on the wrong diet for 20 years doing my best and 404 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,560 being like a really good girl with it. 405 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,000 I was quite angry and was like thinking back of all of these 406 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,960 many, many physicians and doctors and specialists and 407 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,040 dietitians that I'd been to over the decades. 408 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,360 And I felt angry, like I felt like they had let me down 409 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,000 because I'd listened to them and taken their advice very 410 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,240 seriously, and it had made me sicker. 411 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,320 It hadn't made me better. And that liability is quite 412 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,400 complicated. You know, when we start to look 413 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,040 at the brutal effects that our modern diseases are, you know, 414 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,360 attributed to attributable to diet, we start to look at like 415 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,600 the top ten causes of death almost. 416 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,840 You know, we now understand that things like cancers and 417 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,200 autoimmune diseases are to some extent metabolic diseases. 418 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,600 You know, things like Alzheimer's and dementias are 419 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,680 connected to the metabolism of the brain. 420 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,680 We're looking at, you know, the medical caused deaths which are 421 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,560 often connected to procedures and or medications that are 422 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,640 related to chronic diseases. It's actually like almost this 423 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,680 context of mass genocide relating and connected to a 424 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,480 diet. And that's really scary as I 425 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,640 would imagine if I was a physician, I would be really 426 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,640 worried about the impact that I'd had on all the individuals 427 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,000 and their families over the years. 428 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,880 But then like what that means for me in terms of liability, 429 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,280 knowing what I know. Yeah. 430 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,520 And I feel like, you know, there's there when all of 431 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,560 they're given is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, so 432 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,320 to speak. And a lot of them just lack the 433 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,200 education around nutrition. They're they're not really given 434 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,400 much nutritional education going through Med school, at least 435 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,640 here. And there's certainly a lot of 436 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,480 doctors that want to do right. And I think just simply opening 437 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,320 the the doorway for them to to learn more about these lifestyle 438 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320 interventions is the key. So a lot of these physicians, 439 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,280 you you mentioned that a lot of them in the first year were from 440 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,200 the states. Are they finding your resources 441 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,360 online, the nutrition network, and just diving into those 442 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,320 courses and then just learning through that medium? 443 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,200 Yeah. So we've had quite a number of 444 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,000 people who have gone on and done like all of our trainings and 445 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,040 then we've done what was it kind of our diploma training, a 446 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,280 certification program where they're considered experts and 447 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600 practitioners in this area. And then there's some people 448 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600 that really just drop in and and do you know, one diabetes 449 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,160 reversal training or one obesity reversal training and then take 450 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,640 it back to their practice. And we don't necessarily hear 451 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,520 from them again. And that's wonderful because 452 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,040 they've taken on this knowledge. They're probably bringing it in 453 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,520 in a creative way and we move forward forward with just 454 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,240 opening small doors for people to find a different way. 455 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,160 So there's many kind of routes that people take through this. 456 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,360 The the work that we do and then obviously what we did more 457 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,600 recently, which was published last year, was we spent four 458 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,240 years really building this textbook that's called Ketogenic 459 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,240 that was launched in the States in the middle of last year, 460 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,360 which is an actual medical textbook with thousands of 461 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:39,920 references, 68 contributing authors, 11 editors. 462 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,440 The it's a body of like a solid piece of evidence over 500 pages 463 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,520 of it that can really sit on a doctor's desk and largely 464 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,760 replace something like the Merck Manual. 465 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,320 So if they get a patient that comes in with a neurological 466 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,600 problem, they can look up, you know, multiple sclerosis and 467 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,200 just read the like basic summary of how to treat a patient, how 468 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,360 to discuss it, how to consider TCR as an approach, what the 469 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:08,240 science is saying at the moment. So a textbook is felt important 470 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,480 because that's what people have on their desks and that's what 471 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,240 they kind of refer to in medicine and students actually 472 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,800 study from it. So we're hoping that Med schools 473 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,840 will consider a little bit more of an inclusive approach to 474 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,160 therapeutic dietary treatment. You know, I totally understand. 475 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,200 And the physicians here really worked very closely with 476 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,880 dietitians, particularly in hospital settings. 477 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,920 They feel like they don't have the access or permission to have 478 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,080 the conversation about diet. But if it's a medically 479 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,000 recognized disease, you know, like epilepsy is obviously the 480 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,720 one where the jury's out. It's it's understood that the 481 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,800 diet works as well as the medication and that's, you know, 482 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,680 a low hanging fruit. It's like you would expect your 483 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,400 doctor to have the conversation with you, but what about all the 484 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,400 other diseases that come along? And we know that diet and 485 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,720 lifestyle play a significant role, if not are the 486 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,560 contributing factor. We can't not discuss it. 487 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,600 It has to be talked about, it has to be brought in and it's we 488 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,560 have to have the hard conversations with patients 489 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,760 because they deserve it ultimately. 490 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,800 Totally, completely agree. Are you? 491 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,400 Are you also getting a lot of participants through the courses 492 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,800 that are are not physicians, but just people that are trying to 493 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,160 improve their own health personally? 494 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,680 Yes. In the beginning we actually 495 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,800 declined that and we only accepted positions. 496 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,200 But then we kind of had a list that grew and grew and grew and 497 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,560 grew and we kept that list. And after two years, we launched 498 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,560 a coach training which is called the advisor training which is a 499 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,480 kind of very basic introduction to this work for people that 500 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,480 want to advocate a lot of things like trainers and other 501 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,800 complementary to help care people do it. 502 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,080 We've had vets do our trainings. We've had, we've actually got 503 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,680 fascinatingly enough on our certificate coach certification 504 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,800 that's going at the moment very small group. 505 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,360 We've got one ontologist and one pediatrician. 506 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,080 So we're seeing actually that the oncologist decided to leave 507 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,800 oncology and medicine so that she could become a coach so that 508 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,080 she can actually help patients and guide them in a different 509 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,680 direction. So we're seeing the cross 510 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,960 threads, so important, you know and that's what we've learned 511 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,080 from it. And by bringing, I'm going to 512 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,440 call them lay people, but I know I'm not sure if you're a 513 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,240 physician, I'm not, but I don't see myself as a lay person. 514 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,600 I I see myself as a very knowledgeable patient and I can 515 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,640 have informed conversations with doctors and I can help and coach 516 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,360 people in a new way. So we're seeing it like crossing 517 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:44,000 over and coaches working so incredibly well towards the the 518 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,120 success with patients. And I mean that's what further 519 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,680 health has shown us. We did a very, very interesting 520 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,000 study on a group, quite a large group of type 2 diabetics that 521 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,120 had continuous glucose monitors last year. 522 00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:00,120 And the one sample had just physician support and their CGM 523 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,600 and the other had the coach and physician support and the CGM. 524 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,320 And the results are absolutely astounding just in terms of how 525 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,920 much more successful diabetes reversal is and outlook is, if 526 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,800 there's a continuous glucose monitor or a good diagnostic 527 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,800 tool plus a doctor plus a coach, which is the golden formula, 528 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,280 isn't it? It's to have all of the support 529 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,680 that you can to give this person the best possible chance of a 530 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,880 normal life, which is what most diabetics deserve. 531 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,800 You know, they they were told only a couple of years ago and 532 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040 still are in many places in the world that they have a terminal 533 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,280 condition. And it's like we know now that 534 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,240 that's kind of, I'm going to say rubbish. 535 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,240 You know, it's like the the we see every day people that 536 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,960 reverse the diabetes fully and live normal lives where they 537 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,160 have a perfect outlook. You know, if they went into a 538 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,120 doctor that was naive and wasn't told about their history, they 539 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,000 would believe that they are perfectly healthy and how 540 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,680 amazing that we're at that point. 541 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,440 Yeah, I totally agree. And I think, you know with with 542 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,080 the Internet especially, people are becoming much more of a 543 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,440 stronger advocate for their own health. 544 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,960 And you know that they're, they're placing an emphasis on 545 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,760 what their doctor says still for sure. 546 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,480 But I think they're also taking many of the matters into their 547 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,200 own hands or doing their own self research. 548 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600 So to be able to provide an outlet for them to to work with 549 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,200 a coach that is not a registered physician, but to also do the 550 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120 research on their own partake in these courses, you know, access 551 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,120 this textbook and just simply dive deeper on their own accord, 552 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,120 I think is incredibly empowering as well. 553 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,800 That's amazing. And it's, I don't know if you 554 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,040 know Doctor Andrew Aswari, he is he's based in New Jersey, but 555 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,600 he's an amazing example of such a humble, incredible human 556 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640 being. He had Type 2 diabetes. 557 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,320 He was overweight and he treated patients who were giving, you 558 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,200 know, he was giving them the, the sad standard American diets 559 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,960 at that point and one of his patients lost 40 killers and 560 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,280 versus diabetes. So he felt like he had to learn 561 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,280 and he came to us and he did all of our trainings and he'd lost 562 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,120 40 kilos and he reversed his diabetes and he did. 563 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,920 He's certified and he now practices, that's what he's 564 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,640 done. He's converted his practice into 565 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,720 a local practice. So how amazing that there's so 566 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,840 many incredible people in healthcare that are just kind of 567 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,800 transforming it for themselves and their patients and that the 568 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,640 patients are teaching them and showing them the way how 569 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,960 wonderful. You know it's like it's things 570 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,040 have changed. It's not this top down approach 571 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,800 anymore to healthcare which we all know. 572 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,520 We we we we're responsible for our own health ultimately and we 573 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,880 hopefully find the right physicians along the way and the 574 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,680 right support that we need. 100%, I mean, you have to put 575 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,240 some emphasis in anecdotal data. And when you have so many 576 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,040 patients coming up to you that are doing their own research and 577 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,560 they're reversing their type 2 diabetes, they're losing weight, 578 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,480 they're improving their, the metabolic function. 579 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,120 Like you can't turn a blind eye to that for too long without 580 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,200 just humbling yourself and wanting to dive deeper and learn 581 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,600 more and implement those practices. 582 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,880 Absolutely. Aren't we lucky that we we're in 583 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,840 the kind of in the generation that's turning this tired? 584 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,120 And I mean that's really ultimately my hope is that our, 585 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,960 our, our children or the sort of next generation on this earth 586 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,640 won't go through this problem that we've had where we do 587 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,160 things that make no sense and we were told we have diseases that 588 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,840 have no, no hope. Meanwhile, we just kind of 589 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,320 there's like a couple of very obvious things that we can 590 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,080 change that will give us a much, much better life. 591 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Absolutely. What a tragedy that we've had to 592 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,800 go through this and learn it the hard way. 593 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,080 And what what wonderful news that there's hope and that 594 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,520 things are changing, we just need to do quick. 595 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,960 Definitely hope. Speaking of children, you also 596 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,960 have a background in marketing towards children's nutrition, 597 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,600 right? Yes. 598 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,640 What can you elaborate that a little bit? 599 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,200 Yeah, I mean, I wrote my thesis. I did an MBA in the UK and I 600 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,800 wrote my thesis for a charity that kind of looks at children's 601 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,440 rights. And my, it was very much focused 602 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,520 on, you know, the rules that need to be put in place to 603 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,560 protect children. And that was in I graduated and 604 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,600 wrote it up in 2004. And you know, these these laws 605 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,960 haven't really changed. I mean that's 20 years ago, like 606 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,520 20 years ago, it was very clear where things were heading in the 607 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,360 UK in terms of Children's Health, their exposure, 608 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,520 unnecessary, overwhelming exposure to processed foods. 609 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,960 And at that point children around the world recognised 610 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,360 Ronald McDonald over Father Christmas and even Jesus as an 611 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,720 icon. So we were seeing like Ronald 612 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,480 McDonald was kind of the main thing that children recognised 613 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,920 when they were in an in an environment where they were 614 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,800 interviewed and asked questions. What kind of future is that for 615 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,080 children? So I mean very strongly in my 616 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,680 own belief system is that we're not protecting our children and 617 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,480 it's definitely no ones faults directly. 618 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,200 Parents are doing their very, very best. 619 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,800 And I think that, you know, marketeers are doing their best 620 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,400 in their own ways to kind of grow their brands. 621 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,480 You know, it's not like some massive conspiracy. 622 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,480 But what's happened is that the children have become the victims 623 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,080 of marketing to a large extent and children are making the 624 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,560 retail decisions instead of their parents, you know, so that 625 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,120 mums are buying things that children like and categories 626 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,480 have been imploded because of it. 627 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,720 So things like Pop Tarts and our breakfast and supplements are 628 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,440 now part of meals and gummies are, you know, like health food. 629 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,400 And it's very, very confusing for an adult. 630 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,320 And children's brains and bodies have just been hijacked by this. 631 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,720 So we have to find ways to better protect children from 632 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,680 addiction ultimately, but also just marketing and such direct 633 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,960 access. And there's many measures that 634 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,480 you know, need to be put into place. 635 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,560 That Sugar's the most low hanging fruits, which is, you 636 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,040 know, how do we protect our children from just such heavy 637 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,320 sugar in their diets? And then that kind of addictive 638 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,160 property being brought through into all of the things that 639 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,880 they're exposed to in their lives. 640 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,760 And it's a huge piece. And when it comes to to trying 641 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,280 to bridge the gap between health and nutrition and quality food 642 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,760 choices and the financial component of it all, like so 643 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,239 many, I mean sugar is obviously a very cheap commodity relative 644 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,840 to, you know, quality beef for instance. 645 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:26,320 How does one go about, especially in Africa, how does 646 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,600 one go about the, you know, navigating those waters? 647 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,280 Like how do you provide nutrition to the the demographic 648 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,000 people that are impoverished and do so with quality food choices 649 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,360 that often times cost more? Like how does how does one go 650 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,400 about that? So it's it's a different 651 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,239 approach that we've kind of piloted over the last 10 years. 652 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,960 We we created something called Eat Better South Africa for 653 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,960 this. And it's separate to the Nokes 654 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Foundation because what we figured out was, and I know I've 655 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,480 actually listened to one of your great talks about being on a 656 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,280 strict killer diet and how useful that is. 657 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,000 What we figured out was that we couldn't go to people that earn, 658 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,880 and I'm not going to say earn, but typically a budget for some 659 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,120 people that live in our communities is around a dollar a 660 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,840 day for food. And that means very, very poor 661 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,960 quality bulk cheap food, which as you said is largely 662 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,760 digestible to sugar. And we have a product called 663 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,840 mini pap PAP in South Africa, which is it's a maize based, 664 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,080 white, highly processed and refined white maize product. 665 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,880 Only South Africa and Mexico use this particular maize for for 666 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,680 humans. In all other countries in the 667 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,960 world it's only used for animal feeding, so it's really not 668 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,560 considered something that is suitable for human consumption. 669 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,800 But in South Africa people eat that in bulk, so it's like seen 670 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,440 as a traditional food and it's a very emotional food. 671 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,600 People absolutely love it. It is very tasty and I can see 672 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,840 why it's addictive. So what we took the approach of 673 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,200 doing was to say, OK, we're going to try and get people to 674 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,040 eat better and not to get them to eat perfectly. 675 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,920 Like, to eat perfectly, you need to have quite a bit of money. 676 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,520 You need to have certain things in your life like a refrigerator 677 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,320 and ideally a stove and, you know, things that make it easy 678 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,600 for you to get nice food and then cook it. 679 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,120 So if better. South Africa was created as a 680 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,280 way to bring balance into the macro nutrient plates of people 681 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,080 that live in local communities that don't have access to good, 682 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,360 fresh quality food and to show them. 683 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,680 And what we've shown with US intervention so far and our 684 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,240 studies around them is that it's actually very successful. 685 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:42,400 So a person living on a very, very low budget in a quite a an 686 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,520 area that doesn't have like a good easy to get to retail 687 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,320 outlets or shops can change their diet. 688 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,320 They can reverse their diabetes and they can take on the 689 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,400 knowledge very, very cleverly and very well. 690 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,320 And that means things like eggs that are cheap. 691 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,560 You know organ meat which is very, very cheap in South 692 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,360 Africa, fats rendered that are sold in balk and that's cheap 693 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,120 bulk buying creative things and different meal plans. 694 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,800 Like we we look at what a community's actually eating. 695 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,480 We get a dietitian into a community before we start and 696 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,520 they look at what the, you know, the the participants eat over a 697 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,000 week and then they say, OK, we're going to pull out the pop 698 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,840 that maize that I was talking about and we're going to put in, 699 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,320 you know, something that's similar. 700 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:32,520 So like a porridge that's got flaxseed and that's affordable. 701 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,440 It's not perfect and that way we can bring people onto a 702 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,600 healthier lower club diet that will have good impact and does 703 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040 seem to work. So we're seeing amazing results 704 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,400 particularly with hypertensive patients with weight loss with 705 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,680 yeah, a lot of things. We're in one state clinic now 706 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,880 which is a type 2 diabetic clinic and we're piloting it on 707 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,280 patients that have that are HIV positive. 708 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,200 And to see you know if the diet works with the drug, many drugs 709 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,400 and kind of complex situations going on because HIV comes with 710 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,480 quite a lot of other Co morbidities and side effects as 711 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,640 does diabetes. So really interesting work 712 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,000 that's being done just in bringing. 713 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,840 So we brought this down to under a dollar a day about 80 US cents 714 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,880 and we've had success and the success is quite brilliant like 715 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,280 it's, it's similar to the results that you see in the 716 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,040 Verta Health study actually in terms of efficacy. 717 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,320 But you wouldn't expect, you wouldn't expect to take, you 718 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,400 know, to go to a group of people that's eating on such a limited 719 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,640 budget and that have limited means and that it would work as 720 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,720 well as it does. So amazing results, amazing 721 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:41,360 data, incredible work is it just shows that it's possible for 722 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,200 anyone to do this as long as there's support. 723 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,440 And that's the most important thing, is like the actual 724 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,360 morale, support and guidance around how to get the diet 725 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,640 right. And then when people feel 726 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,360 better, they just automatically move in that direction, you 727 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,200 know, So they it's hard for the first couple of weeks and then 728 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,760 they suddenly are, you know, feeling alive again and their 729 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,320 glucose is down and their blood pressure's down, even normal. 730 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:10,520 And then they want more of it and they want to impact other 731 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,560 people. So we see one person in our 732 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,800 programs typically affects the diet of about 11 people in their 733 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,960 communities positively. So as an example, what would 734 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,760 like a typical day of eating with that $0.88 USD budget look 735 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,600 like? What was like the caloric intake 736 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,760 and macronutrient profile of that on average? 737 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,080 So if I haven't got the meal plans here and we have them 738 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,520 online, they're all freely available, but it would be 739 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,640 typically things like a number of eggs. 740 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,760 You know we can get really affordable eggs in local 741 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,440 communities in South Africa, things like peanut butter is in 742 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,880 there, fats like ghee and we have different kinds of fats 743 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,920 here that are palm based which are very, very cheap and they're 744 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,840 quite highly saturated. So we're getting people onto 745 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,120 things like that. And then organ meats, chicken 746 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,240 feet is a very popular thing in some of our communities in South 747 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:07,280 Africa as is intestines and organ meats, rendered fats, 748 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,920 cabbage and affordable vegetables that people find in 749 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,440 street markets and local communities. 750 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,520 And then a variety of other things. 751 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,920 You know it's it's really varies depending on the area and the 752 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,240 group of people that we're working with. 753 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,960 So we develop that. And try to develop what they're 754 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,640 eating and that's something similar to what they're eating 755 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,120 as a way through it. And that's never perfect to 756 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,720 start with. I mean, we have, I met a lady 757 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:37,520 who drinks 8 liters of normal Coca-Cola in one of these 758 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,360 communities and you know, we couldn't take her off her 759 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,520 Coca-Cola straight away. It's it's very much like, OK, 760 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,080 well can we do like 4 litres a day and four litres of Coke 761 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,000 Zero. And then next month we're going 762 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,640 to do 2 litres and and a couple of bottles of, you know, 4 763 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,440 litres of Coke, 02 litres of Coke sugar and then two litres 764 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,240 of sparkling water. And then we head in a direction 765 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,320 that is going to move towards a much better outlook. 766 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,440 And that sometimes means like 50% better, not 100%. 767 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,760 So we're not putting people onto grass fed, you know, steaks and 768 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,960 organic free range eggs. That's never going to be really 769 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,240 the reality that they face in their lives. 770 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,720 But it's about absolutely adding and we do find a lot of school 771 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:26,440 feeding programs because children, you know, as is in the 772 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,080 in the States, it's everywhere. Children get the worst diets and 773 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,160 they have to be helped with cognitive development. 774 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,080 And that means that, like the average school meal, certainly 775 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,040 in South Africa, is not going to take a child into life and 776 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,920 adulthood with the brain. That is what has what it needs 777 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,120 to actually have a good outlook. You know, it's like the brain 778 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,440 needs quite a lot over those first 15 years of life to 779 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,400 develop well and to go through education. 780 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,360 And if you're feeling it just absolute crap and sugar all day 781 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:58,920 long, it's not going to get there. 782 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,080 So we're seeing very positive results and you know, getting 783 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,560 very positive feedback from teachers and from parents around 784 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,600 things like concentration and actual school marks, as well as 785 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,320 just the ability to sit through the day and to interact with 786 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,800 peers and to focus, which of course we know is affected by 787 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,640 science and lifestyle. Totally. 788 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,600 Have you had any issues with like companies and individuals 789 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,280 and just charitable donations in general? 790 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,600 Like, I know in the States whenever there's like a food 791 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,160 bank or people are trying to you know, feed the hungry, the 792 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:34,000 donations they give are almost exclusively highly processed 793 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,120 cheap foods. And like they mean whether they 794 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:40,480 they're donating their their, their food, but it's all like 795 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,600 the terrible worst things that you would want to consume or 796 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,920 have anybody consume. It's like, are you getting a lot 797 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,400 of donations into Africa in foods that are that form and 798 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,360 like, how do you kind of sidestep using those? 799 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,440 It's very, very difficult and it's one of the reasons why it's 800 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,960 been the hardest group to get, you know, improved diets off is 801 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,560 exactly because of that in South Africa the retailers have quite 802 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,320 high expectations in terms of donating to charities, but what 803 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,040 they tend to do is that they they donate near, sell, buy food 804 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,120 to the market, value into these food feeding programmes. 805 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,920 So that means literally like 2 day old bread rolls bread that's 806 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,560 off you know, or that's not fresh any longer. 807 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,120 It really does tend to be like the worst cheapest food and then 808 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,560 that ends up in a soup kitchen that just gets turned into like. 809 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,040 I mean I've watched it, I've been to so many of these, it's 810 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,480 like a couple of vegetables that are also like past sell by and 811 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,600 then like bread baked boiled up together into a slop. 812 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,560 So it is really, really difficult and it's very 813 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,280 difficult to get the food funded in the right ways. 814 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,480 But we've had some really creative and incredible programs 815 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:59,080 that have actually funded low carbohydrate porridges and food 816 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,240 subsidies. So we can kind of subsidise to 817 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:05,480 run some of these pilots and and we've got one at the moment 818 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,200 that's about to start an amazing study. 819 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,200 It's it's a city that's very rural and they're using all of 820 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,200 their own home grown foods and chickens. 821 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,040 So it's actually not going to have any processed or western 822 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,560 food brought in, which is so exciting because it's a really 823 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,200 clean study we're going to be able to do on these kids. 824 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,640 That's awesome. We can't wait results. 825 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,400 Yeah. How How does how does one get 826 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,920 involved? Like I I'm hearing you talk. 827 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,800 I just want to help. I want to get involved. 828 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,080 I want to spread the message. Like how does one dive deeper 829 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,160 and and make a difference? Thank you for asking and 830 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,120 obviously being able to talk and share the story like this is, is 831 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,960 such an important way as to just for people to hear what the work 832 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,160 we're doing. A lot of the as I said earlier, 833 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,920 the work that we do at nutrition networks. 834 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,520 So if you buy one of our trainings, I think it's about 835 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,560 60% of the proceeds go towards the NOx Foundation which funds a 836 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,640 lot of these studies and the research. 837 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,520 So that's one way is to put your your purse power in action and 838 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,600 other ways is of course to just donate to these programs. 839 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,600 You can also do we we have a training within nutrition 840 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,200 network that funds what's I've been talking about, which is 841 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,640 called Eat Better South Africa and it's actually a group 842 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,880 coaching training. So where we've kind of taught we 843 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,960 teach our methodology with the idea that it can be applied to 844 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,840 anywhere in the world around taking a group that's from a 845 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,800 local community with limited resources through this program 846 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,000 in a way that works and how to run it, how to manage it. 847 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,160 So that's really nice. It's called the group Eat Better 848 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,160 Group Coaching Training and yeah, but I guess those are the 849 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,600 ways for now. I love it. 850 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:39,800 I love it. I'm not to just come to. 851 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,520 South Africa and see all this in person because I I just, I don't 852 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,240 know I I want to I want to see people make a difference and I 853 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:50,600 want I mean I feel like once you've like you said you were a 854 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,480 patient you know I I used to suffer from all kinds of you 855 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,320 know, disordered eating tendencies and just poor health 856 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,040 as a result of a standard American diet too. 857 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,960 And I feel like once you see the other side and you fear you feel 858 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,480 and experience all the benefits that it has to offer you can't 859 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,560 help but want to get that message out. 860 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,800 So I think this would be a great outlook to to pour into for 861 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,920 sure. Yeah, we and we we we're 862 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,800 actually celebrating our ten years on Thursday, the day after 863 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,760 tomorrow. It's a it's a very exciting week 864 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,360 for us because of course we didn't know if we'd last 10 865 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,960 years. I mean most non profits don't 866 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,640 and so many died or you know kind of close themselves down 867 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,840 during COVID. And so it feels like a really 868 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,160 important moment just we've worked so hard, you know, we all 869 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,320 have in the keto community and we feel sometimes likely on this 870 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,720 kind of hamster wheel that's not going anywhere. 871 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,880 And it's important to just AB together because we haven't all 872 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,240 for many years. There've been so many reasons 873 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:47,240 why things have been postponed since the pandemic, but it's 874 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,560 come back together in a room. And then also to just look at 875 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,000 all the work that we have done and all the successes that we 876 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,680 have made. So we did a little, a very, 877 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,920 very, very cursory. My team's not happy with the 878 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:03,080 data, but analysis of kind of our impact and we believe that 879 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,760 the work has impacted over 74 million people around the world 880 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,640 just in terms of exposure and impact and or training. 881 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,120 So the number of doctors and physicians that are treating 882 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,040 patients and those patients who are taking the work out, the 883 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,840 ripple effect and we can believe that like our impact is small, 884 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,520 but actually you know that we keep going in this direction as 885 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,280 a big community globally. You know the work you're doing, 886 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,200 the work all of the incredible people in the States are doing, 887 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,240 we are getting there. It doesn't feel actually yet and 888 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:36,920 system change takes 20 to 30 years. 889 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,280 So we have to we are part of the kind of army that's changing the 890 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,840 system for the better for the next generation. 891 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,600 But we we've got to keep going and we have to expand our 892 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,800 voices. So thank you for the opportunity 893 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,000 to share mine tonight and to share our story. 894 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,800 It's a lovely. My pleasure, My pleasure. 895 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,920 And you'll host a a conference there as well, right? 896 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,000 No, we don't have a conference coming up anytime soon. 897 00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,400 We've had the world's nutrition summit a couple of times, but 898 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,640 it's parked at the moment because it was hot. 899 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,800 It was an online event. We we booked, I thought we 900 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,960 booked our biggest conference venue in February 2020 and then 901 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,720 of course we all know what happened in March. 902 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,400 So it ended up becoming what was an online conference for a 903 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,840 number of years and then yeah, so we're looking at ways to 904 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,600 bring some people to Africa again. 905 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,200 Hopefully we'll have an actual in person one soon. 906 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,920 Well, I would love to attend that. 907 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:33,800 When that when that time comes for sure. 908 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:35,920 Well, awesome. Where do people go to? 909 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,680 Just dive deeper I guess. Nutrition networkisit.com. 910 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,640 So it's nutrition-network.org, OK. 911 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,320 And then it's the Locust foundation.org and you can kind 912 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,200 of find all of our work through any of those places. 913 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,640 Awesome. And then all social media 914 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,320 channels and everywhere else as well. 915 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,440 Beautiful. Well, I will definitely link out 916 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:56,800 to all those. Make it easier for people to 917 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,520 find you. I really appreciate the work 918 00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,960 you're doing. I have no doubt that you're 919 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:03,240 making a meaningful impact in ways that y'all will never even 920 00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,360 realize, like you're having that ripple effect on a compounding 921 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,600 scale. So I I appreciate what you're 922 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,840 doing, and if there's ever anything I can do to help, by 923 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,800 all means please let me know. Thank you so much likewise. 924 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:16,640 Thank you, Jane. Till next time, take care. 925 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:18,360 Cheers, bye.