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Well, hello ladies and gents. 
Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 

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Today I've got special guest 
Christian Unger on the podcast. 

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Last time I had him on the show 
it was in 2019. 

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He had just finished his 
master's program and he's 

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actually going to be defending 
his dissertation for his PhD in 

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two days. 
So super stoked for him. 

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There. 
We dive deep into some of the 

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research he's been working on 
regarding sex steroid hormones 

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in the muscle tissue and how 
that can implicate hypertrophy. 

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So very interesting stuff there.
We also talk about parenting a 

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little bit. 
He's got a baby on the way due 

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in February, so I'm super stoked
for him there. 

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We talked about HRT and TRT 
specifically, both in males and 

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females. 
So very interesting information 

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and insight in that department 
as well. 

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And we also just talked about 
what is going on with people 

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majoring in the minors right now
as it pertains to nutrition, 

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sleep, you know, 
supplementation, like what do 

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people need to focus on? 
What do they need to disregard? 

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What do they need to, you know, 
put their attention to details? 

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So very enjoyable conversation. 
I've got a lot of respect for 

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Christian. 
He's an incredibly smart 

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individual and I'm just excited 
for all that he's working on and

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has in the pipeline. 
So without further delay, sit 

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back, relax, enjoy the podcast 
conversation with Christian 

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Unger and we are live Christian.
How are you brother? 

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I'm doing well. 
How are you Robert? 

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I'm good man. 
I'm good. 

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When was the last time we 
chatted? 

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I had you on the podcast, but 
it's been shoot man, it's 

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probably been over 2 years now, 
right? 

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I I think it was actually 2019, 
2019, man, that's crazy. 

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And then you had AI saw you at a
conference, I think it was the 

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Keto Summit in Nebraska. 
I guess probably 2019 too, 

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right? 
No, I don't think I'm the last 

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time I, it was Keto continue 
like 2019 that was that was 

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probably the last time I saw 
you. 

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Yeah. 
Gotcha, gotcha. 

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And you've had all kinds of 
things happening in your world 

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since then. 
I saw you've got a baby on the 

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way due in February. 
That's awesome. 

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Congrats there. 
Yes, the little boy on the way. 

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I'm excited to be a father. 
That's obviously the most 

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important thing I'll ever do in 
life, so I definitely looking 

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forward to that. 
It's the best man. 

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Like, I didn't know what to 
expect, you know, becoming a dad

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myself. 
But our sons about a year and a 

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half now, and it's the best man.
Like like him saying Dada and 

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looking up at me and smiling 
like there's literally nothing 

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that beats that. 
I definitely agree there because

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like I always like to the people
who are like unsure, like 

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nervous, I'm like the if the 
goal is to be like the the best 

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possible father and mother you 
can be because whatever you do 

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like work or life like. 
How you raise your child is 

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going to be the longest lasting 
thing you ever accomplished, 

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because how you treat your child
and raise them will impact how 

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they raise their children. 
And it's just transgenerational 

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compared to whatever I do with 
work or like, which is 

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completely meaningless in the 
grand scheme. 

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Yeah, I think that is 100% the 
right way to look at it. 

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Like you are imparting some 
generational impact when you 

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parent a child. 
And I really try to be very 

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proactive with that. 
Like, I'm listening to a bunch 

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of parenting books on mindset 
and stoicism and subscribing to,

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like, you know, fathering 
newsletters, and we're trying to

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figure out what we want to do 
from an educational standpoint. 

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All things that I never really 
spent much time focusing on 

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prior to having a kid. 
But now that I have a kid, it's 

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like, now this is a paramount 
concern for me right now. 

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It yeah, I definitely understand
that. 

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And I also think like there's a 
lot more resources for mothers 

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as compared to like fathers, 
like there's there's not a whole

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lot of. 
Information out there are like 

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leaders in the, I guess the 
field discussing that, but 

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there's a ton of motherly stuff.
So just finding the way is the 

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the key. 
Yeah. 

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And it's weird because like 
societal shifts have always been

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such that they place a lot of 
that parenting burden on the 

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mother. 
Like the father's just been the 

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one expected to go to work, be 
the breadwinner and then kind of

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have like a not a hands off 
approach, but like less of an 

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informed approach. 
And I've started to see a lot 

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more content coming out around 
fathering, which I'm excited 

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about because I think that is 
huge. 

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Plus, I mean you look at all the
statistics on how many, you 

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know, single parent homes there 
are nowadays, how many kids are 

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growing up without a father. 
I mean that's definitely a 

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massive problem. 
So anything we can do to get 

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that shifted in the correct 
direction is going to be key. 

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Yeah, if if anybody's ever 
really interested, go just go 

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look at that data and like the 
increased risk of. 

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On behavior, the future outcomes
for the child like the, the 

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fatherless households like that,
it's almost unbelievable like 

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how important that is and I'm 
glad that's like changing 

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compared to probably 40-50 years
ago where the the husband just 

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went to work all day and then 
that's about it As compared to 

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like now we're seeing more 
involvement like how the 

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important of the father 
etcetera. 

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Yeah. 
Now this 100% this is kind of 

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not not even what I thought we 
were going to talk about to 

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begin with, but I'm glad we're 
going here. 

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Are there any particular 
resources or books or anything 

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that you're diving into right 
now in preparation? 

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Off the top of my head right 
now, no. 

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I've just been more focused on 
like the just the the baby, the 

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like the health of the baby, 
like the the short. 

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I have more short term outcomes.
I'll definitely have to. 

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I'll definitely transition over 
the next 6 to 8 months is 

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especially once once he arrives.
Well, taking care of the health 

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of the baby before he arrives is
so critical to a lot of people. 

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Don't give any thought to that, 
but like the the epigenetic 

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effect of what you're doing for 
your health, what your wife's 

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doing for her health in 
pregnancy like that has so much 

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more profound impact than people
realize. 

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So the fact that you're even 
thinking about that is is 

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awesome, man. 
Yeah, they're like for from a 

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data perspective like the the 
children of insulin resistant or

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type 2 diabetics, they are 
already at an increased 

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likelihood of becoming insulin 
resistant and having type 2 

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diabetes later in life. 
So like the, the important, the 

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importance of like when. 
And health leading up to 

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consumption and African and like
during development is extremely 

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important. 
Yeah, 100%. 

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What is your wife's nutrition 
like? 

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Is she pretty? 
Well you know, all animal based 

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or what is she doing? 
She eats more of a just a 

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balanced diet. 
She doesn't handle low carb very

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well so we we just keep a very 
mixed diet. 

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Probably leaning more 
Mediterranean but just a little 

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bit of everything Definitely 
animal products. 

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I'm. 
I'm. 

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Hugely biased there, but like, I
think it's vitally important to 

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health. 
But we've been doing lots of the

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prenatal, lots of like omega-3 
fish oil, EPADHA leading up to 

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pregnancy. 
So we we we've been hitting the 

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basics there, but just overall 
probably just balanced 

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nutrition, all real food though,
which is the main thing. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Limiting the, the, the crap 

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essentially. 
Nice. 

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Very nice. 
Well, shoot, man. 

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What what do you what do you 
squatting nowadays? 

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Probably. 
Mid 5 hundreds I I'm actually 

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about to start preparing to 
compete in powerlifting for the 

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first time. 
So I got to got to get back on 

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the the the train, getting back 
into it. 

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Nice. 
Well, I was just stalking you on

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IG man. 
Last I saw a clip of you doing 

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like 635 or 655 or whatever it 
was and you're just a freaking 

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beast of nature on the strength 
front man. 

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So the powerlifting will be 
cool. 

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Yeah, I'm. 
I'm looking forward to that. 

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I would like to finally hit the 
the 700 squat that's been 

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eluding me for the last five 
years, but I'd like to finally 

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focus and hit it for once. 
What? 

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What's your weight right now? 
I'm around 2:20, but I would, I 

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would probably like to compete 
powerlifting probably right 

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closer to 200 one 98 and remind 
me how tall you are. 

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I'm 5 foot 9, 5 foot nine, yeah.
So you got a few inches on me. 

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I feel like I'm withering away, 
man. 

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I'm like I woke up at my new low
today at 154.2. 

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But you're also extremely lean 
right now. 

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I'm a little little fluffier, 
yeah. 

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Definitely different into the 
spectrum right now, man. 

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But I I like embracing each 
phase for what it is. 

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I mean, there are times when I 
like the fluffiness, and there 

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are times when I like the 
leanness. 

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Either indefinitely is probably 
not ideal. 

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Yeah. 
No, I I would like to drop drop 

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a little bit like right around 
the. 

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Probably 12 to 15% body fat. 
That's where I probably feel the

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best and also blood work looks 
the best, so that's probably 

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where my ideal range is. 
I think that's like pretty much 

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my sweet spot in a building 
phase to like a 12 to 15% body 

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fat. 
I still have visible ABS. 

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I feel good about how I look. 
My cheeks are a little bit more 

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filled out than I like. 
I got more rounded face than I 

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would ideally prefer, but I feel
like from a overall health 

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standpoint, 12 to 15%, you've 
got enough to maintain proper 

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lab panels but also be it enough
of a surplus to build more lean 

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tissue. 
I think that's a good sweet spot

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for most guys. 
Yep, exactly like I that that's 

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probably and not not even 
probably I I know that's where I

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feel the best. 
So I I'm working to get back 

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there and then just building 
strength slowly with trying to 

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avoid injury. 
That's the plan coming up. 

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Love it, ma'am. 
Love it. 

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Well, in 2019, when we last 
spoke, you were in the process 

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of getting your PhD, right? 
I had just finished my master's 

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degree and now, funny enough, 
I'm about to defend my 

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dissertation on Wednesday. 
So hopefully after Wednesday 

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I'll be Doctor Unger. 
So nice, man. 

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Well, that that's super 
exciting. 

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Congrats Regardless the outcome.
I'm sure you're going to do 

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great, but that that's a massive
accomplishment, man. 

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So huge Congrats to you there. 
Yes, excited to finally be done 

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school and started applying it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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What? 
What's the dissertation on? 

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My so our lab's research, we 
focus on sex differences in 

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metabolism, but I my projects 
have mainly been revolved around

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00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:46,200
sex steroids and sex steroid 
receptors in skeletal muscle and

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their importance essentially. 
Well, I'm excited to chat with 

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you man, because you are a very 
data-driven individual. 

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You love getting into the weeds 
and I love getting into the 

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weeds as well. 
I am not nearly as technically 

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savvy as you, but I am open 
minded and receptive to anything

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you have to say. 
So just kind of peel the curtain

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back on some interesting 
research that you've been doing 

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currently and just what's got 
you excited right now? 

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Probably the the biggest thing 
that I think probably applies to

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most people is just the how 
valuable exercise is, especially

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with insulin resistance. 
For for example, like a a single

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bout of exercise can improve 
insulin sensitivity by 40% and 

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that's irregardless of weight 
loss. 

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So like. 
If you're trying to lose weight 

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but also focus on health like 
you can't, I would not just try 

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to diet my way there. 
I I want you want to essentially

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combine the benefits of exercise
with the weight loss to improve 

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insulin sensitivity, your 
hemoglobin, A1C like basically 

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metabolic health. 
Too many people try to focus on 

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one or the other, but it's 
really a a combo that drives the

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overall healthy phenotype. 
I really get frustrated when I 

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hear people ask like what 
percentage of it is exercise 

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versus nutrition. 
They they always want to break 

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it up, like 50% exercise, 50% 
nutrition. 

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00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,320
I'm like no, no, you got to go 
100% both because they're both 

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on two different spectrums that 
work in symbiosis with one 

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another. 
So you just need to give both of

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them their well deserved 
attention. 

229
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,480
Yep, exactly. 
Because even like when I in the 

230
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,400
past when I've been training 
extremely hard, I like tons of 

231
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,680
volume but like just eating. 
Terrible. 

232
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:33,080
Like the outcomes weren't good. 
I definitely was not. 

233
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,040
My blood work was not up to par.
I was heavier than I wanted to 

234
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,520
be. 
So like you you really need to 

235
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,840
combine both. 
And I just people trying to give

236
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,360
percentage points like if you 
could put exercise in a pill it 

237
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,440
would be the pill prescribed 
around the world. 

238
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,960
Like just the the overall 
benefits between mental health, 

239
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,360
especially, especially with 
going with where we are in 

240
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,880
society now, and then the 
effects on just overall health 

241
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,000
like you can't. 
Pass up exercise, no matter how 

242
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,880
clean you're eating and exercise
like it's daunting to people 

243
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,920
that don't exercise. 
Like, people that exercise 

244
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,160
regular, like you and I like 
it's just a part of our day as 

245
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much as brushing our teeth is. 
But people that don't exercise 

246
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,600
and hear that word, they hear 
barbells, dumbbells, gym 

247
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,840
equipment. 
They just, like, go into a panic

248
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,640
attack. 
But like if you actually distill

249
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:26,360
it down to its core, the 
benefits of exercise can be had 

250
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,040
with a pretty minimum viable 
dose. 

251
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,680
Yep, I I would completely agree 
and the people who are really 

252
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,320
like intimidated about it. 
I just start with getting a 

253
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,200
decent amount of like steps 
daily. 

254
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,560
Like if you don't have to go in 
to start running miles or going 

255
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,760
to squatting tons of weight, 
just start with the basics. 

256
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,000
Like what if you look at the 
overall mortality data on step 

257
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,160
count, Like once you get to that
6008 thousand steps a day, 

258
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,080
10,000, like you see it. 
It kind of level off like if we 

259
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,840
can if everybody just shop for 
like I think 8 probably 6 to 

260
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,480
8000 a day at the just at the 
bare minimum like your overall 

261
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,440
health is going to drastically 
improve just like going for AI 

262
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,080
to kind of quote. 
I think Stan efforting he really

263
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,120
drove this like the importance 
of this like a walk after eating

264
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,200
like drastically impacts like 
glucose levels especially if you

265
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,120
had a higher carbohydrate meal. 
So I just being active 

266
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,320
throughout the day and just 
getting daily step like just 

267
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,800
start there and you don't have 
to. 

268
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,000
Go run a marathon way or Miles 
just getting exercise. 

269
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,560
Yeah 100%. 
Do you listen to many Huberman 

270
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:39,560
podcast? 
Yes, I I him Tia a big, big fan 

271
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,360
of Post. 
Yeah, I've recently started 

272
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,360
listening to a lot more Huberman
podcast like while I'm training 

273
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,080
as opposed to for whatever 
reason. 

274
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,360
When I'm in a deficit, I prefer 
to listen to podcasts and books 

275
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,920
when I train as opposed to 
music. 

276
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,440
But I've been listening to him 
while I train and I listened to 

277
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,440
his. 
He had like a six part series 

278
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360
with Andy Galpin. 
Did you catch that by chance? 

279
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:03,200
Yep, I I listened to that like 
fully and that that conversation

280
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,480
and like everybody should listen
to it no matter where you are on

281
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,440
the the fitness spectrum like it
it was like 9:50. 

282
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,080
You can't from the exercise 
physiologist perspective. 

283
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,760
It was fantastic. 
Yeah, I got a lot out of that 

284
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,240
one for sure. 
There's a few things that I I 

285
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,280
don't necessarily disagree with,
but I think galloping from a 

286
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,040
nutritional standpoint, 
listening to the nutrition 

287
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,360
podcast, it seemed like he was a
little bit biased towards carbs 

288
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,800
simply because that's where most
of the research has been done. 

289
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,360
Which totally makes sense. 
That's where the research is. 

290
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,200
But from the exercise Physiology
standpoint, like I was giving 

291
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,120
that podcast out to my mom who 
just recently started weight 

292
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,920
training. 
Because regardless, like you 

293
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,600
said, regardless of where you're
at on the spectrum, hearing that

294
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,680
information can't help but 
instill the importance of 

295
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,600
training. 
And I like how he broke it down 

296
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,360
to different formats of, you 
know, subjecting the body to 

297
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,960
exercise. 
So you've got like a strength 

298
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,960
and I approach a few component, 
you've got like a a velocity and

299
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,920
you know explosiveness component
and you get like an endurance 

300
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,520
and aerobic standpoint. 
I feel like if people break that

301
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,480
apart and kind of figure out how
to, you know, intertwine those 

302
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,560
throughout their routine, that 
makes a lot of sense. 

303
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,960
Yep, and especially the. 
The probably I the part that's 

304
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,240
most overlooked by people is the
power aspect because as we age 

305
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,600
and get older, the ability to 
produce force quickly just 

306
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,560
declines. 
It's a natural part of aging and

307
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,040
that if you look at the data 
with power training and older 

308
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,200
adults like it can help prevent 
falls. 

309
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,880
It just quality of life improves
like training power is just as 

310
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,800
important as pranks especially 
with aging. 

311
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,560
It's just often it's. 
I believe it's underappreciated,

312
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,040
yeah, because they were saying 
that power is the of the three 

313
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,760
main components. 
So you've got the endurance, the

314
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,880
strength and the power. 
As you age, the power and 

315
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,560
explosiveness is the one that 
declines the quickest. 

316
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,920
Is that right? 
Yep, that is correct. 

317
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,800
And you can see that with 
Olympic sports like the very the

318
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:12,240
power oriented athletes, they're
usually all younger compared to 

319
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,400
like the endurance athletes. 
You're most likely to win a 

320
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,320
marathon, probably in 30s 
forties as compared to the 2025 

321
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,400
thirty year olds who are doing 
power based events. 

322
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,840
So let me ask you a selfish 
question here because I don't 

323
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,040
honestly do much explosive work.
Like as a bodybuilder, I'm not 

324
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,360
doing a ton of cardio or 
endurance work, although I have 

325
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,600
done some, you know, marathon 
training and stuff in the past. 

326
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,240
But most of my training is 
focused on hypertrophy and then 

327
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,960
kind of strength as a subset of 
that. 

328
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,520
But I'm not really doing much 
explosive work. 

329
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,840
So if you were me and I wanted 
to start proactively 

330
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,280
incorporating this in my 30s, 
and then just continue it as I 

331
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,800
age, what would be your 
recommended form of training for

332
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,640
explosiveness? 
To keep it. 

333
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,560
Probably just brief and simple. 
For upper body I love a medicine

334
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,640
ball throw, so either chest 
press or rotational. 

335
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,319
And then for lower body, I 
really like either a box jump or

336
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:15,319
just a standing broad jump. 
So just like having a weighted 

337
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,560
medicine ball on my chest and 
throwing it. 

338
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,319
Up you can do, Yeah. 
Well, you can do. 

339
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000
Basically just like a pass like 
just pressing straightforward 

340
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,280
but the the big one would be 
kind of like a rotational throw 

341
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,120
into a wall. 
I think that the the rotational 

342
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,040
component on that is it quite, 
quite good. 

343
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,720
What What kind of weighted 
medicine ball are you thinking? 

344
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,680
I I use 8 to 15 pounds. 
I I don't do it that heavy 

345
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,680
because you're you're more 
focused on moving it quickly 

346
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:43,680
essentially. 
Yeah. 

347
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,320
And that makes sense. 
Yeah. 

348
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:46,440
And box jumps are good. 
I don't. 

349
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,680
I don't do box jumps, but I've 
I've always liked box jumps. 

350
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,560
Whenever I go to a gym that has 
a box, I'll use it. 

351
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,680
So I need to just simply get 
some boxes and start doing some 

352
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,640
box jumps. 
Yep, box jumps. 

353
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,840
And then I I love to incorporate
just a standard broad jump. 

354
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,600
A lower lower risk of injury, 
and anybody can do it. 

355
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,200
You just need a flat surface, 
and from an explosive and power 

356
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,360
output standpoint, I'm assuming 
that would have pretty much the 

357
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,120
same benefit of doing sprints 
for instance, but not near the 

358
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,680
risk of injury. 
Yeah, like I I love sprints and 

359
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,080
incorporating sprints. 
But like like you said like as 

360
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,240
as people get older and then 
you're not often sprinting like 

361
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,000
it, it definitely can be an 
injury. 

362
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,840
You risk to a hamstring, knee, 
ankle, and with the box jumps, 

363
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,120
you're also going to benefit 
from the landing component 

364
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,040
because especially as people 
age, they have, I think. 

365
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,640
I don't know if it was a Tia I 
heard this from or somebody, but

366
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,960
like most injuries as people age
come from simply not catching 

367
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,440
themselves as they walk down the
stairs or just take a step off 

368
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,800
of something. 
But if you're doing box jumps 

369
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,880
and consistently landing those 
box jumps, that's going to build

370
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,360
up the resilience in your knees,
your ankles, your entire kinetic

371
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,440
chain, so that you're going to 
be much better suited for that. 

372
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,960
Yeah, the the eccentric 
component and being able to 

373
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,560
control like walking downstairs,
stepping off things like being 

374
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,240
able to slow down is that that 
is usually where people tend to 

375
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,560
get in trouble. 
If you were me and your training

376
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,240
as a bodybuilder, when would you
incorporate those two movements 

377
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,400
in the workout? 
As a warm up or as a cooldown. 

378
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,400
I like them as a warm up, OK, 
personally. 

379
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,440
All right. 
Well, I will start doing that. 

380
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,240
I've been doing the Ben Patrick 
knees over toes program as a 

381
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,600
warm up and I'll just throw in 
the box jumps and the medicine 

382
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,160
ball throws into that as well 
because it doesn't take, I mean 

383
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,440
you're doing what like probably 
10 to 15 reps, two or three, 

384
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,920
four sets. 
I I would probably, I like kind 

385
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,880
of lower reps for explosive 
work. 

386
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,040
I'll do like probably in the 
maybe 3-3 to 8 range and then 

387
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,600
like three to four sets. 
OK. 

388
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,480
So you're talking like 10-15 
minutes tops? 

389
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,960
Max Yeah, you you can knock it 
out in short, pretty short time.

390
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,880
Yeah, that, that's good stuff. 
And one thing that ATT has been 

391
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,360
a big fan of is like a grip 
strength as a proxy for. 

392
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960
You know, overall health and 
robustness as you age and I'm 

393
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,600
trying to get my mom to just 
simply hold on to a bar and and 

394
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,280
dead hang basically for as long 
as she can. 

395
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,320
I think that would be a super 
good thing for people to 

396
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,120
incorporate on a regular basis. 
Yeah, dead hangs or just 

397
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,000
weighted carries. 
Everybody should probably do 

398
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,080
something more. 
Weighted carries like that's 

399
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,960
that is a defining component of 
humans as a species, and just 

400
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,600
being able to do that and 
maintaining that functional 

401
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,360
strength over time is extremely 
important, 100% All right, so 

402
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,720
let's dive into some of your 
research. 

403
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,200
Specifically, So you said 
steroid hormones within the 

404
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:42,800
muscular tissue itself, correct?
Yes, we we're, we look at a 

405
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,440
global like circulating sex 
steroids levels and tissue 

406
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,320
level. 
But if a caveat is all my 

407
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,000
research is preclinical so it is
in mice, so. 

408
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,920
Obviously, take that for what 
it's worth. 

409
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,280
It may not always translate, but
that we're really focused on 

410
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,720
like sex steroids and like 
hormone replacement therapy. 

411
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,240
OK, I definitely want to dive 
into that, but I I do want to 

412
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,560
start this conversation with the
caveat you made about it being 

413
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,440
in mice. 
So there's this huge debate 

414
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,120
right now on social media, it 
seems, about the validity of 

415
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,800
research papers done in mice. 
You've got a certain cohort that

416
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,480
like, won't even look at any 
scientific studies because 

417
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,800
they're like, oh, it's all done 
in mice, doesn't even apply to 

418
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,400
me. 
And you got other people like, 

419
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,600
no, it's 100% if it if it 
carries over mice, it's 100% 

420
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,960
going to be the case for humans.
How should one look at research 

421
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,200
when it's done in mice in your 
opinion? 

422
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,240
Yeah, that that is a great 
question and that people people 

423
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,240
often get this wrong because 
it's not in. 

424
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,800
I wouldn't say it's an either or
you have to take it for what 

425
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,280
it's worth. 
So if you're showing something 

426
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,360
in like in a mouse like. 
The eventual goal for most 

427
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,640
preclinical researchers is to 
get that to translate to humans,

428
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,760
like get rid from the mouse to 
the human. 

429
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,560
But not all stuff does. 
Like for example in in my field,

430
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,240
mice don't have a sexual hormone
binding globulin, while humans 

431
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,880
do. 
So like that it changes how you 

432
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,960
kind of interpret, interpret sex
steroid levels and also sex 

433
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,360
steroids in male mice for 
example, like the reference 

434
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:22,200
range if humans it's like. 200 
nanograms per to around 1100 for

435
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,080
mice it would be like 200 to 
10,000. 

436
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,000
Like the the reference range is 
completely different. 

437
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,880
So like you have to look at the 
whole of the evidence with like 

438
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,320
what you're like looking at. 
Like, I definitely wouldn't take

439
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,400
a mouth study and just start 
implementing it into myself 

440
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,520
because you never know if that's
going to fully translate to 

441
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,080
humans, right? 
Totally. 

442
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,400
You mentioned sex, hormone 
binding, globulin. 

443
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,320
I want to dive into that because
I have always had higher levels 

444
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,360
of sex, hormone binding, 
globulin, and I don't know why. 

445
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,040
Maybe it's genetic. 
I wouldn't think it's because of

446
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,760
anything I'm eating. 
I'm pretty conscious of that. 

447
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,360
I'm not, you know, using any 
topical, you know, skin care 

448
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,560
products that could be a hormone
disruptor. 

449
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,560
Is that something that is likely
just genetic or where is that 

450
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,240
coming from? 
Based on. 

451
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,880
Well knowing like what you look 
like in your probably blood work

452
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800
looks like you it. 
I definitely wouldn't say it's 

453
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,680
diet or anything you're doing. 
It's probably mostly genetic, 

454
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000
but hard to know for sure. 
But question what? 

455
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,200
What is your free testosterone 
compared to the total 

456
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,480
testosterone? 
What percent Like percent of is 

457
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:28,880
it? 
I'll tell you exactly when I 

458
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,680
just get blood work done. 
I will tell you this though. 

459
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,280
My My testosterone has tanked 
since I'm so lean lately. 

460
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,280
It is crazy how much it's 
dropped. 

461
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,080
Yeah, being extremely lean, sub 
sub seven, sub 6%, you're you're

462
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,080
not looking at a healthy hormone
profile. 

463
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,600
I can. 
I can tell you that, 'cause I 

464
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,240
noticed the same thing. 
OK, so my total testosterone is 

465
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,920
typically between 500 and 700 
nanograms per deciliter. 

466
00:23:54,920 --> 00:24:00,440
That's my normal baseline. 
And then on 7/17, after I'd been

467
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,240
prepping for quite some time, it
dropped down to 169.4, which is 

468
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,520
crazy though. 
And then I tested again on the 

469
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,880
3rd of this month 10/3 and it 
went down to 86 total 

470
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,120
testosterone, which is crazy 
low, man. 

471
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,000
That that's that's almost, 
that's extremely impressive. 

472
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,600
I must say it's extremely 
impressive in an unimpressive 

473
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,720
way. 
Yeah, yeah, definitely not good 

474
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,240
long term, but that that is very
impressive, that the. 

475
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,080
The The body's compensating that
much. 

476
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Yeah. 
It it's wild though, because 

477
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,160
like a lot of the symptoms 
people describe when they have 

478
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,760
testosterone, that's that's low.
I haven't really been 

479
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,920
experiencing like I don't have 
any massive drop in strength or 

480
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,320
energy or mental acuity or 
excitement or fulfillment in 

481
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,760
life. 
My libido is definitely pretty 

482
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,960
well non existent right now. 
But other than that, everything 

483
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,400
else is coming along pretty 
good. 

484
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,880
That that's impressive. 
I I definitely. 

485
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,080
When I when I've been on the 
lower end, I definitely felt it.

486
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,640
So, like I I'm thoroughly 
impressed that you're still 

487
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,920
you're you're functioning and 
still kicking butt in the gym. 

488
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,000
And people don't realize too, 
like your steroid hormones are 

489
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,240
so directly linked to your body 
fat levels. 

490
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,080
I mean, that's pretty much like 
the driver of your steroid 

491
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,800
hormones to an extent. 
And I'm not really worried about

492
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,040
it, 'cause I know that when I 
start eating more and put on a 

493
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,360
healthy level of body fat, those
numbers will return, as they 

494
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,520
have in the past. 
But that's why I'm I'm really 

495
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,480
going to try and document the 
significance of this reverse 

496
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,200
diet so much because people they
just want to chronically be lean

497
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,280
and diet and eat sub optimal 
calorie intake and they don't 

498
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,720
realize because they don't test 
their blood work very often how 

499
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,360
much of an impact that's truly 
making on them. 

500
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,360
Yeah. 
A lot of people just don't like 

501
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,880
another, like just message for 
everybody. 

502
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,320
You you get your blood work 
done, like you need to know 

503
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,680
what's going on. 
If the prices have come down. 

504
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,920
It's not. 
That expensive to get a hormone 

505
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,160
panel, but it the information is
invaluable and like just being 

506
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,160
that lean long term definitely 
is not good for sex stories. 

507
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,120
But like you said that they will
come back. 

508
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,120
They will regulate back to 
normal. 

509
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,880
It's just very, very important 
that people often overlook, 

510
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,000
yeah, 100%. 
Anyways, I totally derailed the 

511
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,760
question. 
So my, like I said, total 

512
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,920
testosterone is typically 500 to
700. 

513
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,880
Currently it's 86. 
My free testosterone is let's 

514
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,000
see here, When it was 700 total 
testosterone, my free was 51.7 

515
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,920
PG per ML and then currently it 
is 8.6. 

516
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,680
So that's dropped quite a bit as
well. 

517
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,920
And then my sex hormone binding 
globulin is normally in the 50s 

518
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,760
to 75 is the high nanomoles per 
liter it looks like. 

519
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,360
OK, let's see. 
A general like just rule of 

520
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,920
thumb for free testosterone you 
usually want it to be around 

521
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,880
like 2 to 3% of total. 
Once you get below that that's 

522
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,160
when people can start to notice 
the like. 

523
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,760
The side effects of lower 
testosterone cause like the free

524
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,760
testosterone is your public more
the more biologically active 

525
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,120
testosterone and as we age sex 
hormone binding globulin goes 

526
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,080
up. 
So it probably is for you. 

527
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,560
It's most likely a genetic but 
like like you said you're you're

528
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,880
at. 
Mid 80s, nineties right now, but

529
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,520
you feel pretty good. 
So like, that's that's 

530
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,960
impressive. 
So I wouldn't really be too 

531
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,360
concerned about your slightly 
elevated sexual and binding 

532
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:23,240
globulin. 
Yeah, I'm. 

533
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,280
I've never really been too 
concerned about it. 

534
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,440
I've had haters online. 
It's kind of weird, man. 

535
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,720
Like when you, when you get 
lean, people automatically 

536
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,120
accused you of taking steroids. 
And I just like, say, hey man, 

537
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,600
I'm 155 pounds right now and my 
testosterone's 86. 

538
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,240
I'm not taking these steroids. 
Yeah, yeah, but people are 

539
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,440
trolls. 
But I've always had like this 

540
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,600
weird, like super small. 
I don't even notice it until 

541
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,880
people pointed out online. 
But like, I've got like a little

542
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,440
bit of gyno in my right or in my
left nipple and I'm like, man, 

543
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,480
what in the world caused it? 
But I think I've had it since 

544
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,080
puberty, so I'm assuming it's 
probably just genetic based. 

545
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,920
And I don't know, I don't really
pay any money, I don't really 

546
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,160
care. 
But you've always got the haters

547
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,760
that pointed out and tell you 
that you're taking stuff. 

548
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,800
Yeah, it puberty it does. 
Often occur for young males. 

549
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,360
So like I I definitely wouldn't 
doubt it. 

550
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,520
I and based on your testosterone
of seventy 80s, you're 

551
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,280
definitely not on TRT. 
Yeah, definitely not. 

552
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,560
Plus I just passed on my drug 
test, so I'm in the clear there.

553
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,040
When it comes to these exogenous
hormone replacement therapies 

554
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,160
that have definitely grown in 
popularity as of late, you know 

555
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,360
that that's a major focus of 
your studies right now. 

556
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,880
What's your take on that? 
Like I've I've had multiple 

557
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,520
people on the podcast, both male
and female talking about it. 

558
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,920
There's a it's kind of like the 
the Wild West right now because 

559
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,720
you've got all these clinics 
popping up every street corner 

560
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,600
where people seem to be able to 
just walk in, say, hey, I'm not 

561
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,840
feeling too great, this is my 
levels, Can you get me 

562
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,240
something? 
And then they walk out with, you

563
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,680
know, exogenous testosterone. 
And for some people, they 

564
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:55,960
definitely could benefit from 
it. 

565
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,080
So I'm not trying to, you know, 
short circuit them by any means,

566
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,360
but like it seems like this is 
kind of unchartered territories 

567
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,920
for the masses. 
Yeah, it it definitely is. 

568
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,120
So disclaimer, I'm obviously not
a medical doctor, but from my 

569
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,960
perspective, I think a lot of 
people are a lot. 

570
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,800
Well, let's start with both 
sexes. 

571
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,320
A lot of men are going on when 
possibly they didn't need it, 

572
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,040
when they should have focused on
lifestyle interventions instead 

573
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,640
of kind of covering up the 
underlying issues such as sleep,

574
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,640
nutrition, exercise, etcetera. 
And but also there, I know I've 

575
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,240
seen a lot of people who are 
not. 

576
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,840
Doing enough blood work while 
they're on and their TRT dose is

577
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,800
almost it's super 
phraseological. 

578
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,920
So you they're above 1200 
nanograms per deciliter. 

579
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,320
So like if you're doing it you 
need to be under the supervision

580
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,720
of obviously a qualified Dr. in 
running the frequent blood work 

581
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,440
because how each individual like
metabolizes testosterone is 

582
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,720
completely different like you 
you often have to change the 

583
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,600
dose. 
It's not just a here. 

584
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,680
We're going to put you on 100. 
100 milligrams per week and all 

585
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,480
is good. 
Now you you need to frequently 

586
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,760
check because aromatization 
between individuals which 

587
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120
aromatization is conversion from
testosterone to estradiol. 

588
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,720
It can be widely different. 
Some people can be 

589
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,360
hypermetabolizers of 
testosterone, hypometabolizers. 

590
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,560
So like it really you really 
need to monitor with frequent 

591
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,200
blood work because I think a lot
of people are sitting super 

592
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,840
physiologically above what TR 
what I would consider TRT and 

593
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,360
what would you consider frequent
enough on the blood work like 

594
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,400
every three months, every two 
months. 

595
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,320
Well, if you're first starting, 
I would definitely recommend 

596
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,200
like like a couple, like every 
couple weeks to get that dose 

597
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,960
narrowed down. 
But from if you're on it and 

598
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,640
like you're monitoring your 
blood work, yeah, probably. 

599
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,240
I like every four to six months 
just to check on everything. 

600
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,200
Gotcha. 
Yeah, that makes total sense. 

601
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,520
And I feel like a lot of people,
like you said, they don't 

602
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,120
realize how much their lifestyle
factors can can indicate this or

603
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,840
dictate this. 
Rather, I mean, there's been 

604
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,000
times where I've been super 
stressed with the business and 

605
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,640
sleeps been compromised to the 
point where my testosterone 

606
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,920
would drop like 3 or 400 points 
within a week simply because I 

607
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,800
was stressed and not sleeping. 
And that does not mean I need to

608
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,800
go and get exotitous hormone 
replacement. 

609
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,800
Yeah, a lot of people will do 
their blood work one time and 

610
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,440
they have no past history of, 
like monitoring blood work. 

611
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,840
And they'll notice oh, I'm low T
and then immediately jump to TRT

612
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,040
when in reality they needed to 
take more of a holistic approach

613
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,040
and address the stress, address 
the sleep, address the nutrition

614
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,880
and exercise 100%. 
So for people that are taking a 

615
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,000
proper adequate dose, monitoring
their blood work on a regular 

616
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,560
basis and maintaining 
physiological levels of a 

617
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,200
healthy total testosterone or 
free testosterone, and they're 

618
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,400
not having any issues with 
aromatizing that correctly, what

619
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,240
is happening endogenously with 
their natural production, are 

620
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,840
they going to experience any 
adverse effects downstream? 

621
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,360
Are they going to be down 
regulating their endogenous 

622
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,240
production? 
If they're simply maintaining 

623
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,040
normal physiological levels as 
the age like, how does that pan 

624
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,560
out? 
Yes. 

625
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,880
So if you are on it chronically 
you are going to get endogenous 

626
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:26,920
suppression of LH and FSH which 
signals to the testes to produce

627
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,920
testosterone as well as sperm 
production. 

628
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,600
So if you are on it long enough 
you will potentially experience 

629
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,520
a natural shutdown and then the 
ability to get that back can 

630
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,240
vary individual to individual. 
You could either. 

631
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,280
Even just come off and 
immediately comes back or have 

632
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,960
to use HCG, clomiphene, HMG to 
recover the natural production. 

633
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,480
So if you if you're going to go 
on it and want to maintain 

634
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,240
fertility, they usually do 
prescribe other drugs to help 

635
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,040
maintain them. 
Is there any adverse effects 

636
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,520
that we know of thus far for 
people like as they age well 

637
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,640
into their later years like 
seventies, 80s, like are they 

638
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,400
going to be better off having 
that higher levels like because 

639
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,880
if they're supplementing with 
him throughout, you know, 

640
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,600
menopausal years and beyond or 
guys, you know, 40s, fifties, 

641
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,240
60s, etcetera, you know your 
your decline in testosterone is 

642
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,200
going to happen naturally. 
Are they going to experience a 

643
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:34,280
net gain or net loss as they get
into their elder years by taking

644
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520
that exogenously? 
It's kind of a little question 

645
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,320
we we may not even know yet. 
If for males, I definitely 

646
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,640
believe that it's a overall a 
net positive as long as you're 

647
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,760
managing overall blood work 
essentially. 

648
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,240
So like I I think it's a net 
positive and you're on top of 

649
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,640
blood pressure on top of you're 
not having any any negative 

650
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,320
effects on lipids, you're 
managing everything else. 

651
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,600
But like like you said, we we do
have limit somewhat limited long

652
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,960
term data especially for people 
who are just. 

653
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,000
Replacing to a physiological 
level, but right now I would say

654
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,960
the data as a whole suggests 
that it it would be a net 

655
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,400
positive. 
If you are in the subset of 

656
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,040
needing or noticing, you have 
symptoms of low testosterone. 

657
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,280
Yeah, I I think I'm in agreement
with you on that based off of 

658
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,320
what I've seen in the data. 
What's interesting though for 

659
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,960
me, and I don't mean to make 
this by me about me by any 

660
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,679
means, but as a natural 
competitor they ban all that 

661
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,600
stuff even if you're only 
competing or only taking a 

662
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,760
physiological dose to bring you 
up to physiological levels. 

663
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:43,679
They don't allow any of that 
stuff. 

664
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:47,520
So it's kind of this catch 22 in
the natural federations because,

665
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,800
and I think this is holds true 
regardless of the sport, not, 

666
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,400
not if it's just bodybuilding, 
but other sports as well Like if

667
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,159
they have down the banned 
substance list, it's there's 

668
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:59,880
like a point in which you are 
actually sacrificing your health

669
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,720
and well-being by maintaining 
your natural status and not 

670
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,360
really sure how I feel about 
that. 

671
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,120
Yeah that's a that's a tricky 
one that that's hard to say like

672
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,640
I don't I don't even know what I
would do in that situation but I

673
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:20,160
definitely feel like that it 
yeah just maintaining lower 

674
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,160
levels especially if you are 
hypogonatic and just having 

675
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,960
issues. 
I I'm I'm very pro TRT and even 

676
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,560
HRT for women, but I it just. 
It's it's a tricky situation and

677
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,840
it makes sense. 
Like, I get why they do what 

678
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,720
they do because if you are 
taking anything, then you 

679
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,240
shouldn't necessarily be allowed
to compete with people that 

680
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,240
aren't because they don't have 
that benefit. 

681
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:45,840
So I mean, I totally get where 
they're coming from, but like I 

682
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,720
would love to be able to compete
when I'm 60-70 years old. 

683
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,320
Am I willing to sacrifice the 
health benefits of the TRT at 

684
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,800
that point simply to be able to 
compete? 

685
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,040
I don't know. 
I haven't gotten there yet. 

686
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,200
And then it's also, like you 
said, like when you're dieting 

687
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,640
and getting extremely lean, your
testosterone is dropping. 

688
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,120
So like you can make the counter
argument it's almost fair to 

689
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,000
just stay at a natural level. 
But then you'd obviously have an

690
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,120
advantage when it comes to lean 
mass retention and energy 

691
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,520
levels. 
Yeah, totally. 

692
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,760
So it's, yeah, it's murky 
territory, I think. 

693
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,680
I mean, I think they're doing it
right. 

694
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,880
And just saying, hey, look, if 
you take these substances, you 

695
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,280
can't compare as natural. 
I mean that just seems like the 

696
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,280
the most black and white answer.
But yeah, at some point, like 

697
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,640
when I'm 70 years old or 60 
years old, I'm going to be like,

698
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,840
OK, what do I want to do more? 
Do I want to be healthier and 

699
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,560
feel better or do I want to keep
competing? 

700
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,600
But who knows? 
I mean, maybe with me having my 

701
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,400
diet dialed in and training 
dialed in at such a young age 

702
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,480
that will, I'll be able to 
bypass a lot of those adverse 

703
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,880
effects of aging anyways. 
Who knows? 

704
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,520
Yeah. 
And that's that's another thing 

705
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,400
with aging like I think the 
majority, like a lot of people 

706
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,480
are like you, you hit 4050 and 
just. 

707
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,720
Testosterone drops off the 
Cliff, but like, not. 

708
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,600
That's not for everybody. 
There are individuals who 

709
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,920
maintain healthy levels into 
extremely late age or never have

710
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,200
symptoms. 
Like, it's it's an individual 

711
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,040
case by case basis. 
Yeah. 

712
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,640
And honestly, like, the fact 
that I feel as good as I do now 

713
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,320
with total testosterone of 86, 
like kind of puts my mind at 

714
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,520
ease too. 
It's OK, I can. 

715
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,560
I can function pretty Dang good 
with low testosterone, so I 

716
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,160
should be pretty bulletproof as 
I age. 

717
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,720
Did you happen to get 
estradiolamine measured during 

718
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:24,800
that blood work? 
Yeah, yeah. 

719
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,000
Let me see here. 
So estradiol, there was a couple

720
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,320
times where they did not measure
that, but I am currently. 

721
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,680
It just says less than two PG 
per ML. 

722
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,000
So I don't know what the actual 
measurement is, but it's less 

723
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:39,920
than two. 
Whatever. 

724
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,320
Whatever it is, what's it 
supposed? 

725
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,360
To be yeah. 
So the general reference range 

726
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,040
for males, I've seen 20 
pigograms to 50 pigograms per 

727
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,000
ML. 
But one major issue, and this is

728
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,640
one of like a huge part of our 
work. 

729
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,280
Majority of estradiol 
measurements when you're getting

730
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,440
blood work, they're done by a 
method called an Eliza and 

731
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,240
enzyme linked linked amino 
assay. 

732
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,840
But those are notoriously bad 
for actually measuring estradiol

733
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,440
as certain supplements and other
medicines can interfere with the

734
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,440
assay and then the assays aren't
that reliable. 

735
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,320
So if you are going to order 
blood work at male or female, 

736
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,040
make sure that your doctor is 
ordering. 

737
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,160
In estradiol measurement that is
LCMS or GCMS liquor 

738
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,840
chromatography mass spectrometry
or gas chromatography basically 

739
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,120
they're very fancy measurements 
ways to measure estradiol that 

740
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,200
are way better and actually give
you an accurate measurement and 

741
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,360
that's that's what I do in the 
lab. 

742
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,840
We we can measure down to 0.1 
picograms per million like or 

743
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,120
per gram in tissue. 
So I got. 

744
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,120
You get so much more sensitivity
and specificity with mass spec 

745
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,360
that I, if I see an estradiol on
my blood work and it was done, 

746
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:58,520
finalize. 
I don't. 

747
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,960
I almost don't trust it at all. 
That is good to know. 

748
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,960
I got it tested in 2020 so quite
some time back and it was 

749
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,320
showing 20 peak grams per ML, 
but I don't know what 

750
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,680
measurement they used to test 
that interestingly. 

751
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,200
Enough. 
Oh, go ahead. 

752
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,920
No, that 20 is you're you're in 
the reference range like for 

753
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,920
mine I like to hover around 25 
to 30 picograms per meal. 

754
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,400
That's where I I feel the best 
and I I want the the healthy 

755
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,160
levels of estrogen because even 
in males estrogen is extremely 

756
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,480
important. 
Yeah, totally. 

757
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,160
Interestingly enough, with this 
latest draw on 10/3, with all my

758
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,040
testosterone being tanked, my 
FSH and LH were still totally 

759
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,040
within the range at 4.9 and 1.8 
respectively, so I thought it 

760
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,760
was interesting that those 
didn't drop below the marker. 

761
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,640
Yeah, that's actually really 
interesting 'cause I would 

762
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,080
suggest that your hypothalamus 
and methuitary aren't shutting 

763
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,400
down and it's still signaling to
the testes, and it's the testes 

764
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,880
not producing enough 
testosterone. 

765
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,760
So that is actually very 
interesting. 

766
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,600
Yeah, that gives me hope that 
you know everything will return 

767
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,400
to normal once I start. 
Eating more. 

768
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,800
Once you get a little more food 
and body fat, I definitely would

769
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,720
expect it to come back, 
especially since FSH and LH 

770
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,880
aren't taking a hit. 
Yeah, I would definitely like to

771
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,480
improve my baseline total 
testosterone from the 5 to 700 

772
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,040
that it normally is simply by 
eating or not eating more, but 

773
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,720
I'm excited about that too. 
But sleeping more and being less

774
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,280
stressed, I feel like sleep is 
always the 1st to go for me and 

775
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,080
I never get like the recommended
8 hours sleep. 

776
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,320
I just listened to speaking to 
Huberman earlier. 

777
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,000
I was listening to his podcast 
with Matt Walker and yeah, I'm 

778
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,040
definitely not getting their 
recommended dose of sleep. 

779
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,680
Yes, sleep is such an 
underappreciated marker. 

780
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:49,400
Well, not even marker, but a 
tool for health like I that is 

781
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,840
one thing I will I'll pass up 
training before I pass up sleep.

782
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,760
That's how important I I view 
it. 

783
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,920
At least how how many hours you 
average night. 7, 1/2 to 8 nice 

784
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,560
and you feel like. 
Do you feel markedly different 

785
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,240
if you get like 5-6 hours? 
Yeah, unfortunately, I'm one of 

786
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,360
I I know people who can. 
They thrive on five hours, but 

787
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,760
I've learned over the years that
I'm not that guy, unfortunately.

788
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,760
So I do have to spend a little 
more time sleeping. 

789
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,840
But it for me, like if I compare
to five hours a night to 8 hours

790
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,800
a night, it's night and day. 
It's completely different. 

791
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,920
Yeah, I I feel like 1,000,000 
bucks if I get 6, but if I get 

792
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,520
less than six, I can definitely 
feel the difference. 

793
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,040
But I think like I only ever get
six, You know, if I was to 

794
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,440
ensure that I'm getting, you 
know, 7 to 8 even on a regular 

795
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,600
basis, I feel like that would 
make a massive difference in my 

796
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,120
hormone levels for sure. 
Yeah. 

797
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,000
And then just overall how how 
you feel like it experimenting 

798
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,880
in that 6 to 8 range, I 
definitely feel like most people

799
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,720
should at least try to get that 
most nights of the week, but. 

800
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,320
If you're feeling good on 6 and 
it's working, then it possibly 

801
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,040
not. 
But at least I would try to 

802
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,200
experiment and see what happens.
We need to do another podcast 

803
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,120
after February once you've had 
the child. 

804
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,360
And then I'll ask you what 
you're doing to maintain those 

805
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,400
seven or eight hours of sleep. 
Because I have a feeling that 

806
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,920
you'll be very, you know, strict
on maintaining that quarter 

807
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,400
sleep because you know how 
important it is and you're 

808
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,600
you're, you sacrifice training 
over sleep. 

809
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,160
So I'm going to be curious to 
see how you, how you manage 

810
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,280
that? 
Yeah, that that number for the 

811
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,080
first couple months is 
definitely going to be cut in 

812
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,400
half, I can guarantee you that. 
Yeah, for sure. 

813
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,280
Do you do any specific, like you
ever use those like the Eight 

814
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,960
Sleep Mattress ponds or 
anything? 

815
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,200
No, but I definitely want to try
that because like especially for

816
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,640
me, like temperature when I'm 
going to bed is extremely 

817
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,480
important, like I need 69 
degrees or 68 degrees to sleep 

818
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,400
optimally and that's I've I've 
experimented with that through 

819
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,680
like the the Aura ring and 
different wearables, but. 

820
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,680
Definitely like the I I do want 
to try the the mattresses that 

821
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,400
cool you. 
Yeah, I definitely want to get 

822
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,320
one of those thermal regulation 
mattresses. 

823
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,680
Interestingly enough, since I've
been deeper into prep here 

824
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,640
lately, I've been sleeping in a 
separate room than my wife. 

825
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,880
Not because of the lack of 
libido, but because I'm trying 

826
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,600
to increase my sleep quality 
because like our son, like, 

827
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,600
he'll start off in his own bed 
and then she'll bring him into 

828
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,480
the bed. 
And like I I just wake up when I

829
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,400
feel other people moving or 
noises. 

830
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,280
So I've been trying to optimize 
the quality of the sleep because

831
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,440
the quantity is so low. 
So I've been sleeping in the 

832
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,200
guest bedroom here lately with 
these last few weeks of prep, 

833
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,400
and my OR data shot up in 
quality of sleep simply from 

834
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,200
sleeping by myself. 
So most people could have a hard

835
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,600
time convincing their spouse to 
be on board with that. 

836
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,240
But she's been super supportive 
for the prep itself, and that's 

837
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,160
been interesting sleep data, to 
say the least. 

838
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,520
I noticed the same thing when my
wife first became pregnant. 

839
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,160
She was extremely sick basically
every evening. 

840
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,840
So we did the sleeping in 
separate bedrooms and that did 

841
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,000
improve my quality of sleep. 
So I'm we're going to have to 

842
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,000
figure something out. 
I want to get a one of those 

843
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,320
Wyoming Kings that are like 10 
foot by 10 foot. 

844
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,760
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Or we even thought about going 

845
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,320
old school and like having the, 
you know, sleeping in the same 

846
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,840
room but having the separate 
mattresses like they did back in

847
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,120
the 40s, you know? 
I know, I know, multiple people 

848
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,760
who do that and they say it, 
it's. 

849
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,240
Good. 
So, like I, I, I might have to 

850
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:15,600
convince the wife. 
Yeah, Yeah, once. 

851
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,920
Once you feel the difference 
that better sleep brings you, 

852
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:22,040
it's hard not to want to 
capitalize on it, you know, even

853
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,160
if it means not snuggling up 
with your wife. 

854
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,920
Yeah, like quality sleep. 
It's besides like exercise. 

855
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,880
Like sleep is a very close 
second, possibly even more like 

856
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,520
because. 
Sleep. 

857
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:37,840
If you you will die without 
sleep. 

858
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,120
Like you, you can't pass that 
up. 

859
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,280
And then just the the quality 
and quantity are both extremely 

860
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,840
important. 
Yeah, 100%. 

861
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,600
So go back to the testosterone 
or the sex hormones in general 

862
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,960
in the muscle tissue. 
So what are you looking for 

863
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,840
there and what what kind of data
are you getting? 

864
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,600
So what we have been doing in or
doing currently we're either 

865
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,000
manipulating the. 
Sex steroid receptor, so like 

866
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,840
estrogen receptor alpha or the 
androgen receptor and either we 

867
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,960
can over express the receptor or
delete the receptor and we're 

868
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,600
trying to understand like the 
role that those play in skeletal

869
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,320
muscle. 
And then one of our recent 

870
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,680
publications that just came out 
a couple months ago was we over 

871
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,800
expressed aromatase in the 
skeletal muscle. 

872
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,480
So that led to increased 
estrogen in the skeletal muscle 

873
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,920
and circulating estrogen and it 
actually caused anabolism or 

874
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,880
skeletal muscle hypertrophy. 
The muscles were significantly 

875
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,040
bigger with increased estrogen 
in the muscle. 

876
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,280
So that's one of the current 
projects we're working on. 

877
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,640
Like why? 
Why is that muscle 

878
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,720
hypertrophying essentially Now 
with that you could also run the

879
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,840
risk of other things 
experiencing some hypertrophic, 

880
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,840
you know, affect like cancer 
cell growth for instance as 

881
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,280
well, like when you increase the
estrogen to that degree, it's 

882
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,760
not really going to be specific 
to just the muscle tissue, 

883
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,800
correct? 
Yep, exactly like one of these 

884
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,640
mice actually suffer from 
bladder outlet obstruction 

885
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,560
syndrome where the smooth, the 
smooth tissue or epithelial 

886
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,240
tissue in the urethra grows and 
they can't urinate as well. 

887
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:18,400
But yeah, like the overall goal 
of our lab and like our 

888
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,000
projects. 
May like figure out optimal 

889
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,240
hormone replacement therapy 
especially for females that's 

890
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,600
where majority of our research 
is focused on. 

891
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,680
But also once we get to the 
point where we can drug the 

892
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,840
androgen or estrogen receptors 
in skeletal muscle tissue 

893
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,360
specifically without having off 
target like off target effects 

894
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,640
that would be where like the 
ideal long term projects would 

895
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,960
lead to and what what, what 
mechanism are you using to 

896
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,720
increase the estrogen in the 
muscle tissue, Is this like via 

897
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,960
injection or how is this getting
done? 

898
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,280
So we actually the mice have 
their. 

899
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,680
This will get semi complicated 
but I'll try to keep it simple. 

900
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,720
The mice have their genomes 
edited so they carry trans genes

901
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:11,080
and when we give an antibiotic, 
like a low dose antibiotic in 

902
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,240
the water, it allows us to over 
express or delete. 

903
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,080
Different genes which encode for
different receptors in the 

904
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,840
muscle. 
So this is all through 

905
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,920
transgenic, but we also do like 
transgenic animal models, but we

906
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,240
also do just like global hormone
replacement therapy and estrogen

907
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:31,240
replacement therapy. 
So if this were to become 

908
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,440
efficacious in the human 
population, how would this be 

909
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,640
administered at scale there in 
your opinion? 

910
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,040
Long way off there, but similar 
to. 

911
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,800
Like it's what tharm are you 
feeling me familiar with SARMS 

912
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,920
essentially yeah. 
It's what SARMS are are looking 

913
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,680
to be like what the problem with
SARMS is they're the reason one 

914
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,920
of the reasons they were they 
didn't pass FDA was they did 

915
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,760
they improved muscle size but 
didn't improve muscle function. 

916
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,840
Obviously that can be confounded
because in cancer patients like 

917
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,520
they weren't, they potentially 
weren't exercising but being 

918
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,000
able to just target the muscle 
without the off target effects. 

919
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,400
It's extremely hard especially 
for skeletal muscle tissue. 

920
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,800
But like for SARMS, like if you 
chronically take too high of a 

921
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,560
dose of a Sarum or for example, 
you will get pituitary and 

922
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,160
hypothalamic shutdown, so you 
will crash endogenous 

923
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,520
production. 
So just getting to the point 

924
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,040
where we can specifically target
the muscle that that would be 

925
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,440
the goal similar to like how 
PCSK 9 inhibitors when you give 

926
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,360
that drug like through 
subcutaneous injection it only 

927
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,920
can target. 
They deliver. 

928
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,360
So kind of getting to the point 
where we can do that muscle, but

929
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,280
we're a long ways off from 
there, but that would that would

930
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,920
be the long term goal. 
When it comes to to HRT in 

931
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,280
females specifically, there 
seems to be a myriad of 

932
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,960
different delivery vehicles 
you've got like the pellets, 

933
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,200
you've got the patches, you've 
got the injections, you've got 

934
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,880
the creams like what is the the 
best delivery vehicle. 

935
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,520
I'm assuming it's probably going
to be somewhat individual 

936
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,360
dependent, but it's things with 
a lot of these compounding 

937
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,400
agents. 
There's just a massive room for 

938
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,000
inaccuracies and and just too 
many variables. 

939
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,160
Yeah. 
And that that is the number one 

940
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,360
question we're trying to answer,
figuring out the routed delivery

941
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,920
that is best because obviously, 
like you said, there's something

942
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,760
like transdermal creams. 
There's like a vaginal 

943
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,760
application of estradiol, 
there's the pills, there's the 

944
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,000
injections, there's the pellets.
Based off what I currently see 

945
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,520
the the pellets are one 
potentially. 

946
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,760
Not a great option just due to 
the levels wildly fluctuate when

947
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,360
you first when you first 
administer the pellet, the 

948
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,440
levels shoot up super 
physiological high and then stay

949
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,080
high and then even at the time 
of replacement the physiological

950
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,120
levels in some studies have 
reported reported being two to 

951
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,880
three times higher than what 
natural endogenous levels are. 

952
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,800
So I'm personally not a fan of 
that method, but the transdermal

953
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,360
patches that that probably. 
In my opinion, right now it has 

954
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,720
pretty good data, especially 
because you can manipulate the 

955
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:18,080
patch by application duration, 
potentially the size of the 

956
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,840
patch etcetera. 
And the frequency I think would 

957
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,800
be key too because I have a lot 
of these guys that are getting 

958
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,200
TRT done, like they'll go in and
they'll get, they'll get a a 

959
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,760
massive bolus injection, but 
then they're not going for 

960
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,840
another four to six weeks. 
So everything peaks you know 

961
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,600
early on and then they just kind
of it dies off. 

962
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,400
So in fact, a lot of guys have 
been doing, you know, weekly or 

963
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,720
biweekly or like every Wednesday
or something, taking a smaller 

964
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:45,560
dose so they can kind of 
maintain more reasonable 

965
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,120
physiological levels. 
Yeah, that every six to eight 

966
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,040
weeks I think is absolutely 
horrific. 

967
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,040
Should not be done clinically. 
What seems to be ideal right now

968
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,080
would I prefer? 
Well, in my opinion I prefer the

969
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,520
twice a week, even the even the 
once a week you can have issues 

970
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,320
but the twice a week? 
You can get more stable levels, 

971
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,200
especially if you do it 
subcutaneously in the adipose 

972
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,160
tissue you get a more steady 
release instead of 

973
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,000
intramuscularly. 
But there's been interesting 

974
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,560
data ongoing, even more frequent
and then some have shown that 

975
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:22,520
like you get less shut down 
natural and production based on 

976
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,560
frequency but also like some of 
the newer methods of 

977
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,040
administration such as nasally 
so like there's there's some 

978
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,720
interesting data but. 
Right now if you're doing 

979
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,120
injection wise, I think the 
twice a week is probably the the

980
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,320
Goldilocks for most people and a
lot of these companies are 

981
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,400
getting pretty savvy with how 
they're, they're reducing the 

982
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,640
barrier to entry to making that 
transdermal injection pretty, 

983
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,320
pretty streamlined like it's 
like a little EpiPen almost 

984
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,240
right. 
Yep, a lot of them are 

985
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,240
preloaded. 
But one of the issues with the 

986
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:56,520
preloaded you're it's hard 
really hard to adjust the dose, 

987
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,800
the 11 benefit, withdrawing it 
up yourself and injecting which 

988
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,280
obviously is a barrier to entry 
for some patients. 

989
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,440
But the the biggest thing I 
think the pro would be you can 

990
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:11,960
adjust because 80 to 100 megs of
one person divided twice a week 

991
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,560
is going to be completely 
different than the the next 

992
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:15,800
person. 
Gotcha. 

993
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,400
Apart from the obvious, you 
know, fundamental stuff like 

994
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:28,280
proper sleep training, proper 
nutrition, are there any, you 

995
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,720
know, supplemental routes that 
people can take that are pretty 

996
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:34,720
good bang for the buck as far as
naturally increase increasing 

997
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:36,360
their their physiological 
levels? 

998
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,640
Yeah, I naturally I I'm not 
really pro any of the the. 

999
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,480
Popular ones that are advertised
boron potentially has some 

1000
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,760
efficacious use but all the 
other the other ones that are 

1001
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,280
often touted for efficacy, I'm 
I'm not really a huge fan of I, 

1002
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,120
I try to put majority of your 
effort into the lifestyle 

1003
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,880
modifications. 
Yeah, there's a big push right 

1004
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,240
now or there was like a few 
months back about that 

1005
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,280
trikesterone the, the plant 
based steroids, but I don't 

1006
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,320
think any of the data shook out 
on that one. 

1007
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,240
Yeah, that one. 
And then there's two other plant

1008
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:19,880
ones that are often touted. 
But I I've, I experimented. 

1009
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,560
I can't remember off the names 
off the top of my head, but I 

1010
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,920
did experiment with them, but I 
did not find that they were that

1011
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,840
great. 
Yeah, I mean, I think anybody 

1012
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,920
that's reaching for those prior 
to just simply getting ample 

1013
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,920
sleep and training and getting 
all the crap out of their diet 

1014
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,120
is barking up the wrong tree. 
Yeah, if you can lose some 

1015
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,400
excess adiposity and sleep 
better you're you're going to 

1016
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,520
improve hormone production 100%.
So when it comes to like 

1017
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,680
timelines with regards to the 
research that you're doing and 

1018
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,840
hopefully seeing it play out in 
human models, what what do you 

1019
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,320
think we're looking at time 
frame wise? 

1020
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:03,040
Oh, that. 
That'd be very hard to guess, 

1021
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,760
but probably the the one that we
could probably get to human 

1022
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,680
quickest is just. 
Expanding the knowledge on 

1023
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,400
hormone replacement therapy 
because like like you said, it 

1024
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,400
is the Wild West and having 
people truly appreciate the the 

1025
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,440
details of it and like the 
intricacies of what can happen 

1026
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,960
like that, That a huge effort 
needs to be put there because 

1027
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,800
the popular study in the early 
2000s, the Women's Health 

1028
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,160
Initiative, it kind of set back 
the field for years. 

1029
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,960
Hundreds of thousands of women 
were probably deprived of 

1030
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,400
Estraderan hormone replacement 
therapy that shouldn't have 

1031
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,760
been. 
But we really need to figure out

1032
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,280
the the method of delivery with 
establishing the the proper 

1033
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,880
levels because it different 
clinics and different methods of

1034
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,440
delivery just produce widely 
different results. 

1035
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,280
Is there any particular resource
that you would recommend people 

1036
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,120
go to that are wanting to dive 
deeper into this but they can 

1037
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,960
trust? 
Because this is definitely a 

1038
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,320
topic that the masses are 
ignorant on. 

1039
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,600
I mean like so many guys are 
like, I just want to get more 

1040
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,440
testosterone, I want to minimize
my estrogen, whereas in fact you

1041
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,560
don't want to necessarily 
minimize your estrogen. 

1042
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,720
Like everything is 
interconnected and all hormones 

1043
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,040
are, you know, pretty much 
interlinked. 

1044
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,160
Like you can't really just 
change one and expect it not to 

1045
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:22,600
have a profound impact on the 
others. 

1046
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:27,840
Yeah, unfortunately I don't have
a great recommendation, but just

1047
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,080
having people just kind of 
understand the the. 

1048
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,880
Any Physiology behind it like 
that you got you got to look at 

1049
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,240
the big picture like you said 
like I I personally want my 

1050
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,760
estrogen levels as high as I can
get them without having any 

1051
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,560
symptoms negative symptoms with 
having too high of an estrogen. 

1052
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,520
But like the you have to 
appreciate the whole system. 

1053
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,640
You can't just pull on one lever
and expect that's the only thing

1054
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,680
that happens. 
Like you give TRT, you got to 

1055
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,880
realize what you're going to do 
to fertility and long term 

1056
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,440
production. 
Like you got, you got to look at

1057
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,240
all the. 
Pros and cons and what's going 

1058
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,280
to happen? 
Like, it's not just do this one 

1059
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,720
thing and everything's fixed. 
Yeah, there's no no shortcuts, 

1060
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:08,440
no quick fixes, no no gimmies or
hacks with anything. 

1061
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,920
Yeah, you just you got to people
love the major in the minors. 

1062
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,360
But we need to take a step back 
and look, look at the the big 

1063
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,440
picture that that that's really 
what is going to make the the 

1064
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,320
biggest difference. 
Focus on nutrition focused on 

1065
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,840
sleep. 
Focus on minimizing excess 

1066
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,800
stress and just physical 
activity. 

1067
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,000
Like if you're going to take 
like a couple things to focus 

1068
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,600
on, it would definitely be those
everybody's worried about, like 

1069
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,440
what supplement should I take, 
what exercise should I do. 

1070
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,320
But just focusing on the big 
picture things is what's going 

1071
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,480
to drive the the the biggest 
outcomes. 

1072
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,200
We were talking about one thing 
to touch on majoring in the 

1073
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,480
minors before we hit the record 
button. 

1074
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,600
Is there like, do you think that
is more prominent now more so 

1075
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,600
than ever? 
And if so, like what is it that 

1076
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,360
you think is driving this 
mentality of majoring in the 

1077
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,040
minors? 
Is it because there's just this 

1078
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,960
massive influx in very granular 
detail, specific information 

1079
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,960
that people are getting 
inundated with, or or what's? 

1080
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,240
What's going on there? 
I definitely think it's a little

1081
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,080
bit of that and then also a lot 
of people are. 

1082
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,880
I at least I've seen on social 
media a lot of people try to 

1083
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:22,880
demonize items or ingredients 
and like this is bad, this is 

1084
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,000
good. 
But like you can't look at 

1085
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,480
nutrition or exercise like that 
way that there is no there's no 

1086
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,520
good or bad there will be better
and worse. 

1087
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,920
But like in things we should 
focus on, but like a lot of 

1088
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,880
people like for example like one
of the recent ones that 

1089
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,560
aspartame was reclassified as a 
Class 2B carcinogen, but what 

1090
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,240
also is in that class Aloe Vera 
lotion. 

1091
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,480
Cell phone use in class one 
above that, which would be like 

1092
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,880
like class 2B. 
Like basically it's potentially 

1093
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,800
carcinogenic, but smoked meat is
Class 1, alcohol is Class 1, 

1094
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,520
sunbathing is Class 1. 
So it's like you got to look at 

1095
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,760
the big picture. 
Like am I going to be upset that

1096
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,960
I have a Diet Coke once in a 
while? 

1097
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,560
No, but it I'm definitely not 
going to be consuming 3 to 5 a 

1098
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,000
day, but like. 
People love to just like the 

1099
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,080
people walking in grocery stores
and making the viral videos like

1100
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,280
in reading off ingredient list. 
Like there this this one 

1101
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,640
ingredient in this one food that
you may have once a week is your

1102
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,280
you will never notice an effect 
there. 

1103
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,960
Like focus on the big picture, 
eat high quality food, sleep, 

1104
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,600
exercise. 
They just focus on the basics. 

1105
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,720
Don't be focusing on one single 
ingredient that's driving all 

1106
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,320
disease in America like some 
people make it out to be. 

1107
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,160
Yeah, it's kind of weird, man. 
Like for me as a, you know, 

1108
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,160
quote UN quote influencer and 
someone in the space talking 

1109
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:48,120
about nutrition, it's like when 
I distill my core beliefs down 

1110
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,400
to its simplest form. 
It's really comically simple. 

1111
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:57,840
Eat good quality food. 
Move your body, sleep more, love

1112
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:58,680
life. 
Like it. 

1113
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:03,160
It's it's it's like I almost 
feel guilty for coaching people,

1114
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:07,680
but like so many people and I 
can get like crazy specific and 

1115
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,280
tweaking electrolytes and 
weighing out salt and 

1116
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,800
macronutrient manipulations. 
Like, I can get as granular as 

1117
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,360
people want to get. 
But but so many people have a 

1118
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:21,480
hard time just simply embracing 
the basics and majoring in the 

1119
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,760
minors to the point where they 
just become chronically stressed

1120
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,640
and paralyzed by making any 
positive momentum because 

1121
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,640
they're just inundated with all 
this misinformation or 

1122
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,720
information that's, you know, 
sensationalized. 

1123
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,760
And I don't understand why 
that's the case. 

1124
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,840
Like, where is the common sense 
these days? 

1125
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,240
It's it. 
I think that's like one of the 

1126
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,560
biggest issues like we we are in
a period of like information is 

1127
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,080
extremely accessible, but a lot 
of the information out there is 

1128
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,760
just garbage like you said, like
if you if everybody focused on 

1129
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,840
eating high quality food, moving
more, sleeping. 

1130
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,040
Loving life, minimizing stress 
like everybody be healthier. 

1131
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,760
You don't have to you don't have
to get super specific with 

1132
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,360
certain for like looking at the 
big picture obviously like if 

1133
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,080
we're peaking for a bodybuilding
show we're trying to maximize 

1134
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,600
hypertrophy then we're going to 
get into electrolytes, protein a

1135
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,840
timing of everything etcetera. 
But like for most people, they 

1136
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:20,840
just you have to nail the 
basics. 

1137
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,400
If you're you're stepping over. 
The basics and then just trying 

1138
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,840
to focus on like these minute 
things that are not making any 

1139
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,320
difference in the long term. 
Yeah, 100% man, 100%. 

1140
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,840
Well, let me ask you this, man, 
to round out things. 

1141
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,720
What are you excited about going
forward? 

1142
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:37,720
I know you get your 
dissertation. 

1143
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,560
You said next Tuesday, is that 
right? 

1144
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,080
No, actually in two days, 
Wednesday. 

1145
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,760
In two days, 2 days, and then 
you've got a baby on the way in 

1146
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,040
February. 
So those are two massive things.

1147
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,520
I would definitely be excited 
for those two. 

1148
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,360
But what? 
What beyond that, man? 

1149
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,520
Well, I'll be taking a 
postdoctoral research job. 

1150
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,920
So I'll be doing some more. 
I'll be doing a little more 

1151
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,120
Cancer Research going forward. 
So looking forward to that. 

1152
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:06,760
But from what's on the horizon 
basically in like the health 

1153
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,040
field, I think a lot of like 
wearable technology that's 

1154
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,360
coming out in the next 5 to 10 
years, It's going to be 

1155
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,240
extremely valuable for people. 
I'm, I'm quite excited about 

1156
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,480
that. 
And then also some of the 

1157
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,600
longevity data that there's 
going to be some interesting 

1158
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,280
studies in the next 5 to 10 
years like those those would be 

1159
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,360
long my long term outlooks that 
I'm looking forward to and then 

1160
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,000
for myself look looking forward 
to becoming a dad. 

1161
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,400
That's that's about it. 
Well, that that's the best man 

1162
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:34,760
as far as the wearable data 
goes. 

1163
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,640
Is there like a specific device 
or measurement that you're 

1164
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,560
hopeful to see and implement 
soon? 

1165
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,560
I so I've experimented with 
continuous glucose monitors, a 

1166
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,400
continuous ketone monitor. 
I did use that a little bit. 

1167
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,760
That was interesting. 
It definitely has some work to 

1168
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,360
do, but it was an interesting 
like startup company. 

1169
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,720
I believe it was China. 
But a continuous lactate 

1170
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,800
monitor? 
That'd be really interesting for

1171
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:04,760
fine tuning exercise and and 
surprisingly it's also it's also

1172
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,400
like an important metric for 
metabolic health like if you are

1173
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,800
metabolically unhealthy, you're 
going to have an elevated 

1174
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,320
fasting lactate. 
So like knowing that during 

1175
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,680
exercise I could really play 
play around with looking at like

1176
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,720
anaerobic threshold and Zone 2 
training. 

1177
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,360
So like I'm really excited for 
the day we get the the lactate 

1178
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,080
monitor and I do believe it's on
the horizon. 

1179
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:24,600
I have. 
I've heard rumors. 

1180
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:26,400
Yeah, I would love to play 
around with that. 

1181
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,000
I would love to have a 
continuous cortisol monitor. 

1182
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,720
I think that would be super 
interesting. 

1183
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,400
That would also be interesting. 
And then cuz measuring cortisol 

1184
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,400
is just not easy. 
You can do it in the urine and 

1185
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,080
saliva, but like it's difficult 
to get A levels over time, so 

1186
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,520
like if somebody could come out 
with a continuous measurement of

1187
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,880
that, that'd be extremely 
extremely useful. 

1188
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:48,480
That would be interesting to 
have. 

1189
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,800
You know, attached to your wife 
as she's going through these 

1190
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,480
first few months postpartum. 
I feel like that would be 

1191
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:55,760
interesting. 
Interesting data. 

1192
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,640
Oh yeah, yeah. 
I I, I would love to take blood 

1193
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,160
work and run run the mascot, you
know just get get all the 

1194
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,640
hormone levels and all the 
changes because that that's just

1195
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,920
an interesting time. 
Yeah, time frame there. 

1196
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,480
For sure, man. 
Well, Christian Brother, I am 

1197
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,040
super excited to be reconnecting
with you. 

1198
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,880
I'm stoked for your baby on the 
way. 

1199
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,280
I definitely, let's definitely 
talk sooner than. 

1200
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,320
We have with between podcasts 
this last go around here, I mean

1201
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,120
2019 and now it's just far, far 
too long because you're always 

1202
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,560
doing something interesting that
I'm excited to learn more about.

1203
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,760
But I'm stoked for you to have 
your baby. 

1204
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,040
It really is the best thing in 
the world, man. 

1205
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,720
Like I I have no doubt that 
you're just going to soak it up,

1206
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,360
brother. 
Nope. 

1207
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,440
Thank you for having me, Robert.
Looking forward to it. 

1208
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,440
And yeah, I'll definitely over 
the next six months to a year, 

1209
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,800
I'd love to come back because 
we'll definitely have some 

1210
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,040
interesting data regarding 
nutrition, cancer and 

1211
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,000
metabolism. 100% man Well, what?
Where's the best place people 

1212
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,600
can go to Follow along and make 
sure they're in your in your 

1213
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,960
world right now just Instagram 
just I believe it's Christian 

1214
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,880
Unger 1/3 on Instagram. 
Just that. 

1215
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,160
That's my main social media. 
Perfect. 

1216
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,280
Well, I will certainly tag that 
linking in the the show notes. 

1217
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:02,480
Make it easy for people to find 
you. 

1218
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,320
And brother, if there's 
everything I can do to help you 

1219
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,840
in any way, man, you let me 
know. 

1220
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,440
I'm always there for you. 
Yes, Sir. 

1221
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:09,280
Sounds good. 
Thank you, man. 

1222
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,440
Take care, bud. 
Bye, you too.