1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,480 And today I've got special guest doctor JC Folkers on our line 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,560 and we dive deep into the world of hormonal health, male 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,000 optimization. We touched female hormonal 5 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,240 health and optimization a little bit. 6 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,480 I'm probably just going to get him on the podcast a second time 7 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,600 to dive even deeper into that. But there was so much to cover. 8 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,200 We covered quite a bit, talked about natural ways to improve 9 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,320 testosterone. We talked about exotic 10 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,200 supplementation that you can that you can use to improve as 11 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,880 well, and we just we just dove deep into male hormone 12 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,800 optimization. So thoroughly enjoy the 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,280 conversation. I've got no doubt that you will 14 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,240 take something from this so that for the delay, sit back, relax, 15 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,000 enjoy the podcast with Doctor JC Folkers. 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,160 You're live. Doctor JC Folkers, How are you 17 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,200 Sir? I'm doing well, man. 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,080 How you doing? I'm doing wonderfully well 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,360 myself. So we met in person at the Hard 20 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,480 to Kill Summit last year and we sat on the couch and talked 21 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,519 about hormone health and optimization for probably an 22 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:06,240 hour or so, I think. Seemed like it. 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,360 Yeah, it was. It was fun. 24 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,360 It was it was like, man, I gotta get you on the podcast, dive 25 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:11,840 deeper into this. That's what we're doing here 26 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,640 today. You you are the the science man 27 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,240 behind the company blokes, correct? 28 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,400 Yeah we have two kind of two sister companies so it's blokes 29 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,240 is the men's side of it that's you know where we focus you know 30 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,920 it's we have a website that's kind of men facing then we have 31 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,240 a a a female side called choose Joy. 32 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,440 So it's kind of now it's blokes and joy, you know, for Joy would 33 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,560 be for the women. But Yep, that's kind of our, 34 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,000 that's our company. I have not been to the women's 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,880 side yet, but the bloke's website is super clean, man. 36 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,440 Like, you've got everything laid out and organized. 37 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Very well done, yeah. Thank you. 38 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,120 Oh yeah, we, we, we refined it a few times and just kind of keep 39 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,040 keep making improvements and making it, making it easy for 40 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,600 people to and accessible for people to get labs done. 41 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,560 You know, you know kind of start there with you know, creating 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,639 awareness with where they are, with their, with their hormone 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,280 levels and and in other nutrient levels, so. 44 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:13,920 I love it. Where? 45 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:15,320 Where'd the name blokes come from? 46 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,520 There's like an Australian background somewhere there. 47 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,280 No not really. We just kind of we kind of you 48 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,560 know we'd kind of like that that that word kind of a cheeky name 49 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,280 for like like dude you know bloke. 50 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,600 We just we just wanted to kind of like our goal was to kind of 51 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,840 target just like your your average guy you know not not not 52 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,040 some you know you know a lot of times people think when it comes 53 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,640 to testosterone and you know getting your your levels 54 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:42,440 optimized. You know it's just for guys that 55 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,800 you know that go that go to the gym. 56 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,800 But it's really, this is for all all guys. 57 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,960 You know, dads, grandpas, you know, any anyone that just wants 58 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,040 to feel better. Totally, totally. 59 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,880 Well, what got you into that in the 1st place, man? 60 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,560 Like what? What got you on the path to get 61 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,680 the science background that you do and dive into to hormone 62 00:02:58,680 --> 00:02:59,960 optimization? Were you struggling with 63 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:02,240 something personally or what was the the catalyst there? 64 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,160 You know what? That I I definitely was 65 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,840 struggling with something personally I would say when I 66 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:14,160 was in my early 30s and here's the thing too, like you know 67 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,160 back in my 20s and I've I've always been a gym guy. 68 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,680 I've always been into working out you know I've been a athlete 69 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,080 I've done bodybuilding I've I've competed and and you know I've 70 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,480 take taken my fair share of like the those pro hormone 71 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,840 supplements. Remember when they were really 72 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,560 popular G&C and things like that. 73 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,880 I I would take the, you know, I'd get my hands on somebody my 74 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,800 friends would too. Some of these supplements that 75 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920 would boost your testosterone and you'd feel great. 76 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,680 You'd be like, Oh my gosh, my strength's going through the 77 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,360 roof. This is in my 20s. 78 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,800 I'm taking these things. Well, then I by the time I'm in 79 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,480 my in my early 30s I was just crashing. 80 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,120 I just, I I felt in fact my wife was one that brought it up to 81 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,200 me. It was like man you just kind of 82 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,080 feel like you you seem like you have no energy and just to make 83 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,640 you're tired all the time And and I was and so I remember 84 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,440 getting my getting my testosterone levels checked in 85 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,480 my 30s. I think I was like 32 years old 86 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,880 and I went to a doctor's office and my testosterone levels, my 87 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:18,320 testosterone was total, was like 220 and and at the time I, you 88 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,720 know, I just I actually got on something called HCG That's what 89 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,640 the, the nurse practitioner I went to she recommended and that 90 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,480 actually at the time seemed to pull me out of it. 91 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,760 Did a little bit of HCG, got my testosterone levels kind of back 92 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,520 to I don't know nothing too crazy like 600. 93 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,920 But at least I was able to go to the gym again and and and feel 94 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,920 the energy feel the energized have libido. 95 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,560 But yeah, that was kind of like the my personal kind of 96 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,000 experience with like low hormone levels at a pretty young age 97 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,240 where, you know, I thought I was too young to be experiencing 98 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,760 these things. Kind of embarrassed, you know, 99 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,160 how how, how low my my testosterone was. 100 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,440 But really, I started kind of diving into all different 101 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,440 natural ways to optimize testosterone around that time. 102 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:07,640 Nice. Nice. 103 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,880 And focus, yeah. And focus on everything I could 104 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,640 to kind of keep it, keep it as optimized as I could for for as 105 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,400 long as I could. And so that's really what kind 106 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,640 of started me having at least an interest in in in hormone 107 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,320 optimization for for men. And were you going to like a 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,720 like a university or studying this or anything like how was 109 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,840 that done from like a a career path setting? 110 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:36,520 Excuse me. So so I basically went did go to 111 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,240 initially in University of Nebraska Lincoln and got a 112 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,000 degree in exercise science and but then I went I went on this 113 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,080 to chiropractic school at Cleveland Chiropractic College 114 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,400 and you know that's where we kind of you know learned all of 115 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,120 the things as far as nutrition natural standpoint after that 116 00:05:55,120 --> 00:06:00,040 after Bush graduate I I have since enrolled in different 117 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,400 different online functional medicine programs and I'm still 118 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,080 part of one it's it's it's called FMU functional medicine 119 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,680 University and and and I I have access to some of the best you 120 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,920 know latest state-of-the-art studies and research that that's 121 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,560 being done. And I I try to stay abreast of 122 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,160 all these different things as they continue to develop. 123 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:28,000 So the the the the basically the the the field is known as 124 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,920 functional medicine which is ever evolving ever changing and 125 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,880 it's something that I like will will never stop learning about. 126 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,120 But really at the end of the day it comes down to like the root 127 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,400 root cause approach to you know what what we can do to to help 128 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,040 the body optimize itself by by addressing you know, nutritional 129 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,720 deficiencies, toxicities in just helping the body function. 130 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:59,640 It's, it's best you know, using lifestyle, diet, nutrition, 131 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,560 exercise, sleep, stress reduction, all all the fun 132 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:04,600 things. I love it. 133 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,920 I definitely appreciate the holistic approach that 134 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,960 functional medicine practitioners take towards 135 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,720 things. Absolutely very counter to what 136 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,840 a lot of the traditional western medicine approach entails. 137 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Do you feel like that? Like how the how the traditional 138 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,440 Western medicine practitioners and doctors see functional 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,560 medicine, do you think that tide is turning or do you think 140 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,200 there's kind of a a stigma there still? 141 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,800 I I definitely feel like it is turning. 142 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,640 I know I have, I have a lot of doctor friends that are just 143 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:39,920 kind of tired of, you know, just seeing patients not get not 144 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,400 improved. You know, at the end of the day, 145 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,240 most doctors, the way they're trained is, is to address 146 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,360 pathology. You know, like look at even the 147 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,320 way they look at labs. It's like, you know, looking at 148 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,600 a lab. And if if you're in the standard 149 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,720 range, you're considered normal. But if you're outside that 150 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,360 standard range, well, there there's a, there's a, there's a 151 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,080 drug that's that's designed to treat whatever condition, 152 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,840 whatever symptom you're suffering from. 153 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,480 But at the end of the day, these patients are not getting better. 154 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,720 And so I think a lot of, a lot of doctors are just getting 155 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,760 frustrated. They're trying to, they're 156 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,000 trying to look out more and maybe pay more attention to some 157 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,800 of the studies, some of these other guys that are kind of 158 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,640 like, you know, front runners of just, you know, educating the 159 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,800 masses about, you know, like Peter Ortilla and guys like 160 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,080 that. Just, you know, talking more 161 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,320 about lifestyle, exercise, nutrition and how that actually 162 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:37,080 can make a bigger difference than than some of these, some of 163 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,280 these pills for every I'll. Yeah, totally. 164 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:42,080 What? What was the FMU approach like? 165 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,480 What was the, what's their curriculum like? 166 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:49,120 Is it a a pretty extensive program to get into or like how? 167 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,440 Does that rule. Yeah you have well you first 168 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,080 have to be you have to have a you have to have a doctorate 169 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,160 degree to enroll it with them. So you have to you have to kind 170 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,720 of it's kind of more advanced kind of level so but but their 171 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:09,720 their curriculum is is very very comprehensive and so in fact you 172 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,840 can go you go through the curriculum you get your your 173 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,560 certification then you can you can sit for a test that allows 174 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:19,000 you to be accredited it's an accredited test that allows you 175 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:25,960 to be certified as a clinical nutritional expert which is 176 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,320 pretty cool. I haven't, I haven't completed 177 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:36,120 all of the the all of the levels to to sit for that test yet, but 178 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,880 I I plan to eventually because I'm so busy with with work. 179 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,400 No, totally man. What is their stance on like the 180 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,480 ketogenic diet from a nutritional standpoint as a 181 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:45,840 whole? Like? 182 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,360 Are they pretty receptive to it? Oh, absolutely. 183 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,240 Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. 184 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,960 Yeah, definitely. You know, anything, anything 185 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,320 that's kind of, you know, like ketogenic diet or carnivore diet 186 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:04,040 that's kind of like a, you know, a more or less a elimination 187 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,760 diet to me is, is, is is definitely a way to go because 188 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,720 you're you're helping the body take a break from all the pro 189 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,840 inflammatory you know types of foods that that have been shown 190 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,680 to be, you know linked to autoimmunity or or inflammation 191 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:24,760 in the body I. Totally agree ma'am. 192 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,440 Well, let's let's dive into to hormone optimization a little 193 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,520 bit. So what was the, I guess you 194 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,760 were going through this personally, Could you pinpoint 195 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,320 what the, the driving issue was for you? 196 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Like what was the the thing that was leading to the reduction in 197 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,240 total testosterone and what did? You do to get that dialed up? 198 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,840 Yeah, I think so. Something along the lines, you 199 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,440 know, there's different there. There's so many different 200 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,640 components to testosterone when it comes to low testosterone. 201 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,280 I like to kind of like break it down to like maybe 4 areas. 202 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,840 Like one is definitely poor sleep. 203 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,000 I've always struggled with sleep. 204 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,560 Sleep's something that I think, you know, I'm still trying to 205 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:02,720 always optimize. Wasn't getting very good sleep 206 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:08,840 then, definitely getting better sleep now, but but also gut 207 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,000 health is something that I at the time was was was working on, 208 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,480 was struggling with and improved. 209 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,760 There's also stress. I was working, I had my own 210 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,680 clinic and I was working many hours. 211 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:26,880 I was sometimes working 80 hours a week. 212 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,800 So stress is a huge killer, probably, if not probably the 213 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,120 biggest killer of testosterone. So Cortisol's that hormone that 214 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,160 when it's high it it will kind of caused testosterone levels to 215 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,000 to plummet and so you know making sure you're addressing 216 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,360 stress, addressing sleep, reducing inflammation, 217 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,880 optimizing gut health and and then just kind of you know and 218 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,000 just kind of making sure that you're addressing those things. 219 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,680 So I I also feel like for me I was when I was taking those 220 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:01,040 other supplements that was that was artificially increasing my 221 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,920 testosterone it when I stopped taking them it was shutting down 222 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,360 my body's production. So it kind of, it kind of caused 223 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,520 my production to to to kind of get artificially shut down. 224 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,320 So that's why taking that HCG was something that kind of 225 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,800 helped jump start my body's production again. 226 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,600 And then so as my testosterone levels improved again, I felt, I 227 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,400 actually felt I started sleeping better. 228 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,440 I felt I was able to handle stress better. 229 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,920 I felt that my inflammation went down because those are all 230 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,800 things that that testosterone does does improve. 231 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,720 And so, so I started kind of like really digging into like 232 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,840 all the different ways to kind of like help optimize 233 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,720 testosterone for men and for women. 234 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,560 In fact, that's kind of what we do now for blokes and joys. 235 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:52,680 We we not just focus on men but also testosterone, health for 236 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,600 women as well. Yeah, no, it's it's it's like a 237 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,240 lot of women don't realize how important testosterone is for 238 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,960 them as well. Like, people just kind of assume 239 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,000 that specifically speaking for males. 240 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,440 But it goes both ways, without a doubt, for sure. 241 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,000 It's interesting, man. When when we were talking, I 242 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,760 was, I don't know, I was like halfway through my prep at that 243 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,160 point and I had been getting blood work done pretty 244 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,920 consistently. And I got blood work done at the 245 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,240 end of my prep when I was down like 3.9% body fat and my total 246 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:26,440 testosterone was 86. Pretty crazy, that is, that is 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,680 so low. Yeah, What was wild though is 248 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,400 like my energy levels and you know, my strength, like all that 249 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,040 was pretty solid. Like I never really had any 250 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,520 issues there. Not much libido obviously when 251 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,040 your testosterone's 86, but I was so hyper focused on the 252 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,040 prep, that wasn't really where my mind was anyways. 253 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,960 But it's been like pretty much doubling ever since then now 254 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,600 that I'm eating more food. But it is crazy how low the body 255 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,240 can take things and people like how that affects people. 256 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,120 Is is so different from one individual to the next. 257 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,680 But I'm all about getting things optimized, especially from a 258 00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,560 natural standpoint. Getting more food in, getting 259 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:02,480 more body fat, having having a a really low body fat. 260 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,520 People don't realize that has a profound effect on total 261 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,200 testosterone. That's why staying super lean 262 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,440 year round is not not ideal. No. 263 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,680 I mean here's the thing when it comes, when it comes down to it 264 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:17,280 like you know when you're getting your body fat that low 265 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,840 the amount of the deficit you have to stay in to to continue 266 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:27,200 to drop your body fat is is pretty significant and and the 267 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,800 body's so smart. Our bodies are smarter than we 268 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,520 give them credit for. So it's you know if you're if 269 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,680 you're taking you know taking your body fat percent down to 270 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,960 like you said you said 3.8% which is insane low you're 271 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,440 you're basically prioritizing survival. 272 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,440 You know your body's like like look man we we need to survive 273 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,000 it is not it is no longer prioritizing reproduction. 274 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:55,600 So, so you see in the you see a shift in in hormones to try to 275 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,240 to try to kind of facilitate this. 276 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,360 And so that's where we see a drop in testosterone. 277 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,120 I see the same thing when guys endurance athletes for example 278 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,080 when they're training you know ultra marathon runners they you 279 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,840 know they I mean they put tons of miles on their bodies you 280 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,840 know running running 6080 miles a week. 281 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,320 Their testosterone's the same thing very low because they're 282 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,800 they're operating in this deficit you know burning so many 283 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,760 calories versus how much they're taking in. 284 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,520 It's it's just that it's just your your body's like oh we we 285 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,240 are we are in a in a in a fight or flight state we are we're in 286 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,240 survival and so that's when you see the a shift in the in the 287 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,960 hormones and so and so when when you do when you get good sleep 288 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,760 when you eat you know good healthy fats you know healthy 289 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,040 foods when you are are managing stress you see an improvement in 290 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,120 in testosterone and and you see those things drop when when the 291 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,000 bodies you know kind of like in a in a fight or flight or 292 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,200 survival state. Completely agree. 293 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,840 Well, I kind of wanted to steer this conversation in a way that 294 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,440 is very applicable to people listening. 295 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,880 So let's start with you know what? 296 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,800 What is your primary, you know, client avatar, so to speak. 297 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Like when guys are coming to you looking for help and getting 298 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,800 things optimized, like what does that demographic typically look 299 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,160 like? You know any these days it is 300 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,640 all over the place. I honestly feel like you know 301 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,720 for a while there we were we were mainly targeting we we were 302 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,040 we were mainly targeting guys that were kind of like you know 303 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,920 your your gym guys your guys that are like really fit and 304 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,840 trying to like you know just like look for ways to improve 305 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,040 testosterone more than than they are anymore. 306 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,320 Now it's like I mean it's it's it's your average guy. 307 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,560 It's you know it's your, it's you know it's it's your maybe 308 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,200 40s, 50s, even 60 year old individuals that are you know 309 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,200 just kind of like looking to optimize, looking to feel a 310 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,520 little bit better, have more energy, have that, have that 311 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,840 zest back, have you know have have that little like that get 312 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,520 their libido back. Just kind of like people are 313 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,080 just kind of wanting to kind of like feel better than they used 314 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,200 to. And So what we typically 315 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,480 encourage guys to do is get labs done a lot. 316 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,960 A lot of guys have never have ever looked at their 317 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,119 testosterone levels or or or or or had a doctor test their 318 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,560 testosterone. We want to look at some other 319 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,839 things too. We want to look at testosterone. 320 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,480 We want to look at things like heart health. 321 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,720 We want to look at liver function. 322 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,960 We want to look at kidney function. 323 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,560 We want to look at inflammatory markers, immune health, you 324 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,280 know, certain certain nutrients like vitamin D, homocysteine. 325 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,360 So we want to look at the the whole body and given it you know 326 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,800 getting an idea like what what's going on, what areas we can we 327 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,560 can start to address what blind spots might exist because a lot 328 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,640 of times guys are they're they're deficient in certain 329 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,160 things and they're low in certain things where they have a 330 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,720 lot of inflammation. And so that's why we want to 331 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,400 start with with creating that awareness and encouraging guys 332 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,800 to get labs done. And then from there we can 333 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,320 obviously give give some recommendations on ways to 334 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,640 improve their health. And so, like I said, these are 335 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,440 guys, these are dads, These are, you know, Grandpa's, These are, 336 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,040 you know, just these are like your average, everyday, everyday 337 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,760 guy that just wants to feel better. 338 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,000 And how how long have y'all been working with people now? 339 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,600 We are. We've almost been in business 340 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,680 now for almost three years. Very cool. 341 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,560 What kind of trends have you seen in gathering all this data 342 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,680 and looking at these lab works over that time like are are are 343 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,320 numbers trending down overall are they getting better? 344 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:34,720 What? What? 345 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,160 Is like some common denominators so so one thing that I I have 346 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:46,040 been shocked to to see is pretty low testosterone and often times 347 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,680 in guys that I I have to double check their age like I'm talking 348 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,360 guys in their late 20s early 30s testosterone levels like 349 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,040 sometimes in the twos and three, three hundreds and what you 350 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,520 think the like low that is. Well, there's there's so many 351 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,600 potential variables. I don't know if it has to do 352 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,880 with if, if it's if it's a lot of it has to be lifestyle 353 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,440 anymore. I think there's just one thing I 354 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,160 like to say is we're just not the same men our grandfathers 355 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,080 were, excuse me, you know, 'cause they're just, they're 356 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,040 just definitely a a difference in like the amount of physical 357 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,720 physicality that guys have today compared to, you know, 30-40 358 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,960 fifty years ago. But also I think there's there's 359 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:37,000 been changes in in foods, in diet, in you know maybe the use 360 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,800 some of it could be the use of of electronics and technology. 361 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:48,800 But there's definitely been a trend in in testosterone that 362 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,960 seems appears to be just decade after decade, it continues to 363 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,440 drop. And then. 364 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,240 It's kind of interesting, man. Like I've I've had several 365 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,560 people on the podcast talk about hormone health and. 366 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,320 When you look at the lifestyle factors that have the biggest 367 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,520 pull on what your hormone markers are, you know, sleep, 368 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,800 stress, food, it's like all of those have trended so far the 369 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,840 wrong direction over the past, you know, 100 years. 370 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,800 Like, it's it's wild. Like people aren't spending near 371 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,720 as much time outside. They're much more stressed. 372 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:18,920 They're in front of screens all the time. 373 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,040 They're not eating the right food. 374 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,120 They're not sleeping properly. And that's like the All that in 375 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,920 tandem just wrecks havoc on your hormone health. 376 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,080 All those things I mean it's it's it's shocking it's shocking 377 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:37,200 how much how much lower and and and younger you know guys are 378 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,760 having low testosterone just and and and The thing is and so a 379 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,000 lot of guys just comes to us so like look like look man I I want 380 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,800 to increase my testosterone but I you know I don't want to start 381 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,480 TRT because you know I'm they're they're maybe they want they 382 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,520 want to have children they're they want to prioritize 383 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,560 fertility still and and and that kind of thing which which in the 384 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,880 last couple years what we've actually been prescribing very 385 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,720 often is something that's pretty is pretty effective is is called 386 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,360 inclomophene have you are you familiar with inclomophene. 387 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,440 No. Enlighten me. 388 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,280 So, so inclomophene is, is, is pretty, pretty interesting. 389 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,840 So there's a medication that's been around for, I want to say 390 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,800 is this, this medication has been around since the like 391 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,520 1960s. It's called, it's called 392 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,680 clomophene. The name brand version for it is 393 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,160 Clomid. So it's that was FDA approved 394 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,840 for fertility for women. However it's been used often off 395 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,520 label for men for increasing testosterone and as well as 396 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,880 increasing sperm production. So but clomiphene has two 397 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,480 isomers. It has one called zoclomiphene 398 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,680 and it has another called inclomiphene. 399 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,280 The zoclomiphene isomer has like a 30 day half life. 400 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,480 So it's like it's in your system for quite a while. 401 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,480 The the in clomiphene isomer is has like a 10 hour half life. 402 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,840 So what what they've done is they've isolated that that one 403 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,440 isomer called in clomiphene and it's classified as a Serm 404 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,960 selective estrogen receptor modulator. 405 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:16,920 So what what it does is when you take it it, it stimulates the 406 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,000 body's production of luteinizing hormone. 407 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,120 And what will then happen is so the pituitary will release 408 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,440 something called luteinizing hormone or LH for short. 409 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,200 And the LH will then stimulate the cells of the testicles, the 410 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,520 lydic cells, to produce more testosterone. 411 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,600 So you're actually taking this medication to stimulate your 412 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,240 body's own production of testosterone and it also helps 413 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,240 improve sperm production. So. 414 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,680 So these guys are taking a medication to improve sperm 415 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,720 production and improve testosterone production and it 416 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,760 doesn't shut down their own production as would like TRT. 417 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:00,360 So, so, so it so it. So it seems to me it's very 418 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,040 effective because a lot of these guys are taking this medication 419 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:07,480 and then and they're not, they're not like, you know, 420 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,760 affecting fertility or things like that. 421 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,120 And they're feeling good and they're having increased libido 422 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,480 and they're having, you know, better recovery at the gym and a 423 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,760 better sleep and all these things without having to give 424 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,160 themselves a shot of testosterone. 425 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Totally. Let's let's let's segment this 426 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,360 between natural routes and I guess enhanced routes because I 427 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,920 feel like you know for me personally I I compete in 428 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,880 natural bodybuilding. They've got an incredibly 429 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,320 extensive you know list of banned substances. 430 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,640 So it it's Wild Well they won't allow. 431 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,560 So let's talk about all the things that people can do 432 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,160 naturally that would not cause them to pop negative on any of 433 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,000 these, you know, performance tests. 434 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,840 And then let's talk about the the exogenous hormone route that 435 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,120 that would disqualify you from a natural setting but is 436 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,280 incredibly effective from a health and well-being 437 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,920 standpoint. Absolutely do. 438 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,600 Do you, do you happen to know, Rob? 439 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,120 Do you do you know if they allow DHEA in natural bodybuilding? 440 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,160 So it's weird, man. Every federation's a little bit 441 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,560 different. The WNBF federation that I 442 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,880 compete in is probably the strictest and they they have a 443 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,360 ban on DHEA, but it's for a specific amount of time. 444 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,600 I may actually just Google that while we're talking, 'cause I 445 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,160 want to see what their exact time frame is, but I know they 446 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,080 allow it, but not like right up until show day. 447 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,320 Yeah. And and and so that would be 448 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,720 kind of like that would be one that's kind of you know in the 449 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,840 Gray area because DHEA is is something that it's a you know 450 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,120 it's a hormone secreted by the adrenal glands and it it's also 451 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:50,240 a precursor to testosterone. So both men and women can take 452 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,200 DHEA. I've. 453 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,760 I've actually seen a lot of women results blood results 454 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,720 taking it. It's funny I had this one gal 455 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:03,960 she she was she her husband had 100 milligram DHEA capsules so 456 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,560 she was taking his capsules and and her her testosterone shot up 457 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,000 to like 350 and and she was like and I said I'm just I'm just 458 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,960 curious how you feeling. She's like I feel amazing. 459 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,800 She's like, she's like I'm going to the gym. 460 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,560 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm recovering great from my workouts I'm I 461 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,840 have libido. I I'm like cool. 462 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,040 So, but it it it definitely has been shown to improve 463 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,720 testosterone in both men and women. 464 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,800 So I just pulled it up here. It says from their site all 465 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,680 hormonal precursors in there were tablets and isomers our 466 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,440 band used. The following substances require 467 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,480 90 day three months of abstinence prior to competing in 468 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,960 the INBFWNBF or Affiliate federations for the first time, 469 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,480 which includes DHEA and 7K DHA. So technically if somebody uses 470 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,920 that they would have a three month span without using it 471 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,400 prior to competing for the first time. 472 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,320 I guess if you're already an athlete within the WNBF, you 473 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,040 would not be allowed to use that. 474 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,080 Got it. Yeah. 475 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,840 So that's what that's one that's that now we know if it's and 476 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,280 then so as far as like some natural things that we have. 477 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,040 So we so we do have a product that we that we formally called 478 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,240 levels and it has it. It has things in it that can 479 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:28,360 help boost testosterone, things like Tonkat Ali, it has 480 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:35,000 fenugreek. It, it has Ashwagandha has been 481 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,880 shown, Ashwagandha has been shown to not only, you know, 482 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,040 improve testosterone because what it does is it it helps 483 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,800 blunt the effects of high cortisol. 484 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,840 So when we're able to drop, you know, lower cortisol you're 485 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,160 you're helping your body, you know, produce more testosterone. 486 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,280 Ashwagandha has been shown to improve libido and improve 487 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,960 recovery. So in in addition to moving, 488 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,000 moving testosterone, Tongkat Ali, I don't think they fully 489 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,640 understand the the, the 100%, the mechanism of how Tongkat Ali 490 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,520 works, but it it has been shown to be effective at increasing 491 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,400 testosterone in a lot of lot of individuals. 492 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,280 So I have used that and they often times pair that with the 493 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,440 fidozia, right? Fidozia correct. 494 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,080 Yeah. Have you done that stack? 495 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,600 I have done that stack. I bought the Fidozia but I 496 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,640 wanted to make sure that it was not in the banned list. 497 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,560 I don't think it is. I don't think it is here. 498 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,880 I got that from the live Momentous brand and I believe 499 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,800 that they have all of their stuff third party tested against 500 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,720 the WADA you know, anti doping list which is what Debun BF 501 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:44,880 uses. So I'm pretty sure I'm in the 502 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,600 clear there, but I have not actually used it yet. 503 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,320 Thanks. Yeah. 504 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,640 And I mean here's the thing these are there's some other 505 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,800 things that I would recommend that that's have have been shown 506 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,920 to help indirectly boost testosterone. 507 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,640 There's a there's a compound known as phosphatidylserine 508 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,920 which is also another kind of like a it's it kind of functions 509 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,440 as an adaptogen to help lower cortisol especially especially 510 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,520 cortisol that can be the type of cortisol that's high from 511 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,600 someone that may be overtraining like like like an exercise 512 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,200 induced cortisol. So you can take that at night 513 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,320 and it and it's been shown and it helps with sleep. 514 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:29,320 So and for that matter things that enhance sleep also can 515 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,000 indirectly help boost testosterone. 516 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,880 So phosphatiloserine and then your your different magnesiums 517 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,000 and things like that vitamin D adequate vitamin D is also very 518 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,520 instrumental and important for optimal you know testosterone 519 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,960 production. Trying to think of of of what 520 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,120 else is is a is a natural thing. Can you think of any others? 521 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,240 Those are the top ones that have come to mind, yeah, other than 522 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,280 the obvious lifestyle factors. Right. 523 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,880 I I will share you this with you. 524 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,720 This is interesting. I just because I just I just 525 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,520 spoke to this patient last week so. 526 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,360 So there's a patient she she was a collegiate A collegiate 527 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,640 athlete and she kind of put on some weight and you know kind of 528 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,240 got out of shape and she was a she was a volleyball player and 529 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:25,640 then just decided like 3-4 months ago to switch to a 530 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,480 carnivore diet. And and so I I I happened to do 531 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,240 a follow up with her when she was like you know like I said 532 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,640 four months into this journey and what was mind blowing is is 533 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,840 she did another blood draw and she said look I'm feeling better 534 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,200 than ever. My sleep is better. 535 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,080 My recovery from exercise is is better. 536 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,960 I'm I'm getting stronger and I'm looking at her labs. 537 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,600 I'm like are you did I ask are you are you taking TRT? 538 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,200 Sorry. She's like, no, dude. 539 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,880 Her testosterone went from like it was like 18 to like 70. 540 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,600 Wow. And that's just from switching 541 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,320 to Carnivore. Huh. 542 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,600 From just switching to Carnivore. 543 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,200 What? You know what? 544 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,800 That's all I do. Previously, Like was she eating 545 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,000 a pretty cramped night to begin with? 546 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,600 Yeah, I mean I think, I think she was kind of, you know, she 547 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,440 was eating eating processed, processed foods and carbs and 548 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,680 and and and sugars and things like that. 549 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,280 Just kind of, you know she might have been drinking some alcohol 550 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,760 here and there but but yeah, she completely went 180 like just 551 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,480 straight carnivore and man and it it did a number on her. 552 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,120 I mean, it was like she she couldn't. 553 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,720 I mean she couldn't believe how, how, how good she felt. 554 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,960 Like in every category, better sleep, less aches and pains, 555 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920 better recovery, better mood, better libido. 556 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,640 To see, like, how different dietary interventions have such 557 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,240 a profound effect on hormonal health. 558 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,320 Like, I feel like if you are eating a properly formulated 559 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,960 diet and you have adequate amounts of dietary fat, which is 560 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,400 obviously going to be a precursor to, you know, your 561 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,040 your, your lipids, your cholesterol, which is precursor 562 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,480 testosterone. That's going to help. 563 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,720 A lot of people are under consuming fat, which is going to 564 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,520 wreak havoc on hormone health. But a lot of people don't 565 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,120 realize how much a standard American diet, especially one 566 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,000 that includes a lot of alcohol, 100% hormone. 567 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,040 Health 100%. Alcohol is just, I don't know, 568 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,720 man. Like it's hard. 569 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,280 It's hard for me to ever justify drinking. 570 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,600 I'm the same way I it it never it it it it it never outweighs 571 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,040 the negatives. You know it's just it's but but 572 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,840 but the yeah, to your point too. Like that's why I like foods 573 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,080 like eggs. Eggs are like one of the most 574 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,920 perfect food because you get the fat, you get the cholesterol, 575 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,880 you get the protein. That's what I that's why I try 576 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,600 to recommend a lot of guys eat. You know, they're trying to, 577 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,960 like, increase your testosterone from a dietary standpoint is, 578 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,840 you know, eat more eggs. Do you think there's any truth 579 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,440 into some foods being legitimate aphrodisiacs? 580 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,920 Like, is oysters really gonna make you horny or is that just a 581 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,760 wives tale? That's a good question. 582 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,480 It's never had that effect on me. 583 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,200 But I I don't never had, I never had any issues with with needy. 584 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,440 I mean, I love raw oysters, but I don't ever notice a profound 585 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,440 difference one way or the other after after eating them. 586 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,840 Yeah, I, I, I I don't know if there's really merit to that 587 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,320 100% or not, but I think, I think those foods, when they 588 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320 boost testosterone, I think that's what kind of will will 589 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,840 help the enhance the libido totally. 590 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,120 Now when it comes to cortisol, so a lot of people, you know, 591 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,400 think of cortisol as being inherently bans to try to 592 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,120 minimize it. On all fronts. 593 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,320 But cortisol is good in the proper amounts and you have to 594 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,600 have it. So what is the best way to to 595 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,560 test to see if you are operating in a healthy range? 596 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,800 As far as Cortisol's concerns, that's just gonna be a a routine 597 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,640 lab test as well. You know what? 598 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,640 To be honest with you. So in my, in my in the old days, 599 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,920 like I my brick and mortar clinic, I you know, 'cause I 600 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,920 recommend saliva when it comes to like like an actual like an A 601 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,960 real inaccurate cortisol. And there's a test that I used 602 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,320 to order. It was called Adrenal stress 603 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,760 Index. So it would it'd allow, it would 604 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,840 allow me to basically give the patient like multiple vials so 605 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,920 they would basically collect saliva in the morning, collect 606 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,360 saliva again like around lunchtime, afternoon, evening. 607 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,680 So they're they're they're able to see the trend and the shift 608 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,040 in their cortisol levels throughout the day because 609 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920 unfortunately yeah you're you're right if if you if you get a 610 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,080 morning cortisol. Because The thing is when we get 611 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,360 when we order blood draws for people sometimes they're 612 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,920 sometimes they're early in the morning. 613 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,600 Sometimes people go to the to the lab in the afternoon or 614 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,440 whatever and it's like the it's like but you're only getting 111 615 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:51,000 A one time cortisol check which isn't isn't super conclusive. 616 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,520 I mean it helps but to to see I mean especially if it's like if 617 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,720 you know it's in the morning and their cortisol's like it's like 618 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,240 5. It's like whoa, your cortisol's 619 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,960 too low or if it's like at 30, oh, it's too high. 620 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,920 It's like that. We know that that there's 621 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,280 something going on there. But I ideally I like to see it 622 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,440 throughout the day. So you can see the trend like oh 623 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,040 your cortisol starts out here and then it and then it goes to 624 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,480 here and it follows the the proper trend where it should be 625 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,440 high in the morning and it should gradually drop, drop, 626 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,840 drop and it should be low at night and then and then 627 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,199 melatonin is starts to peak at night. 628 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,600 But some individuals if they have like a lot of just you know 629 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,120 years and years of stress or or some underlying inflammation or 630 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,440 or something going on that often times their their, their 631 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,679 cortisol could be just like all over the place. 632 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,360 I mean you you, you, you have one person where their 633 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,080 cortisol's just like super low all day long and that's not 634 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,760 good. You want you actually want some 635 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,000 cortisol because then their body's not able to adequately 636 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,280 modulate inflammation. Or then you have you, you have 637 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,880 somebody that's just so, so high stress, their cortisol's too 638 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,360 high, that you don't want that either. 639 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,800 That's why it's sometimes ideal to get get multiple multiple 640 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,720 checks throughout, you know, multiple collections throughout 641 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,840 the day. Yeah, I think any marker that is 642 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,320 highly dependent upon your circadian rhythm you you pretty 643 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,800 much have to go the saliva round and test multiple times 644 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,760 throughout the day because the simple blood draw is just not 645 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,280 gonna give you a comprehensive picture. 646 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,240 Correct. Yeah. 647 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,320 And then and then when then you're able to kind of see 648 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,960 address like you know that that person's particular pattern like 649 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,960 if if somebody has super low cortisol. 650 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,720 I mean there's things you can do to recommend to kind of help 651 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,440 like you said like to kind of boost cortisol where you want, 652 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,920 where you want it to to to to kind of match that circadian 653 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,000 rhythm or some people their cortisol's way too high at 654 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,480 night. You want to you want to blunt 655 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,720 that, you want to bring that down. 656 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,880 So there's certain and there's a way, certain supplements and 657 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,240 products you can use to kind of like help facilitate that. 658 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,840 What is the verdict on melatonin? 659 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,240 Supplemental. Melatonin is there? 660 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,360 Is the jury still out as to whether or not that truly has an 661 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,080 impact on endogenous production? Or is it not related at all? 662 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:04,280 You know what I, I, I haven't been a fan of melatonin 663 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,640 supplementing with especially some of some of the dosing 664 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,280 amounts of some of the products I see out there are kind of high 665 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,040 in fact it's high you know high to a point where the like where 666 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,320 the body doesn't even make that much melatonin, you know 667 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,560 endogenously. So I I'm not a huge fan of 668 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,600 supplementing with melatonin when it comes to improving 669 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,080 something, improving sleep. I'll I'll recommend things 670 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,400 things like you know, you know magnesium I'll recommend like L 671 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:41,960 theanine I recommend inositol. I'll recommend in some cases 5 672 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,400 HTP. Just other other things that are 673 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,760 kind of more not. I mean, melatonin's a hormone. 674 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,440 So, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of interesting how they 675 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,480 readily have it available. Yeah, I've seen some crazy high 676 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,040 dosage recommendations for it that. 677 00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,480 I have two. I I have two. 678 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,680 I've never tried it, but I but yeah, I mean in in these super 679 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,800 high doses like those, those are levels that the body doesn't, 680 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,520 doesn't even ever produce. I had to. 681 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,920 I don't know if it was on a podcast or if I was just talking 682 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,840 to somebody, I don't remember, but they were, they were doing 683 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,680 high dose melatonin suppositories. 684 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,800 Have you ever heard of that? I have. 685 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,040 Yeah, but it's like the dosage that they were telling me. 686 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,600 It was just like astronomically high. 687 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,960 Like I never even heard you being that high. 688 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,960 I didn't know people could supplement it with that. 689 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:37,080 High do you do you know the like the the reasoning of of taking 690 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,120 that that high amount of melatonin? 691 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,480 I I've heard different stances on it. 692 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,680 I mean the people that tend to take it that much in a in a 693 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,320 sitting they they're under the assumption that it doesn't 694 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,680 affect in Donna's production at all which may be true. 695 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,240 I don't know. I don't know what the what the 696 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,360 final verdict is on that and it they they notice a profound 697 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,320 improvement in sleep and the the benefit of it being taken you 698 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,640 know as a Suppository is it's obviously got that delayed 699 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,160 release you know so it works throughout the entire night. 700 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,920 But for me, it's like I just, I don't want to have to be 701 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,400 dependent on anything from a sleep standpoint. 702 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,640 Yeah, even like we even have a product that has, it's a sleep 703 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,280 product. Like any kind of like supplement 704 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,960 that I take for sleep, I try to just use it like when I when I 705 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,760 just like maybe I've travelled and in a in a different time 706 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:27,920 zone. I just try to, yeah. 707 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:33,000 I don't like to rely on on these things to take it every night 708 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,480 for sure. Yeah, totally. 709 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:35,920 Yeah, I've one. I've. 710 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,960 I've really tried to dial in my sleep Hygiene, 'cause that 711 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,240 that's. I mean as far as environmental 712 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,160 factors that wreck havoc on my hormonal health, it's without a 713 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,840 doubt sleep and stress. Like being a business owner, I 714 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,720 got the stress and I don't ever sleep enough. 715 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,640 So like I need to get that done and but I don't really ever see 716 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,640 myself getting more sleep quantity because I just, I've 717 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,160 got a routine and I kind of stick with it. 718 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,440 That's just how my body operates. 719 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,480 So I need to optimize the sleep that I am getting. 720 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,680 So I haven't like a structured routine, you know, kind of 721 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,560 booking bookends on the day before I go to bed and when I 722 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,040 wake up has been monumental for getting my sleep quality dialed 723 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,000 in. But yeah. 724 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,680 Do you, do you do you wear any, have any wearables or where 725 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,840 you're able to, like, measure your sleep quality? 726 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,200 Yeah, so I've got a garment, I've got the OR ring for sleep, 727 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,120 predominantly the OR rings, what I use for the sleep metrics. 728 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,520 And my my deep and my REM sleep are typically pretty solid, more 729 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,200 so deep than the rim, cause the rim oftentimes comes on the 730 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,560 later latter half of the sleep cycle, and that's when I'm 731 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,440 waking up. Like I wake up at 3:00. 732 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,680 And if I ever do allow myself to sleep longer, I notice I get 733 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,120 much more R.E.M. because it comes in that later phases. 734 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,840 But I I don't typically sleep much longer than that. 735 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,280 So I I sacrifice the REM sleep, but my deep sleep is always 736 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,840 about an hour to an hour and a half. 737 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,480 Well, you wake up at 3:00 AM everyday. 738 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,080 Yeah, yeah. And I go to bed at like nine, 739 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,040 9:30 or so. But yeah, I prefer to wake up 740 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,640 early. Early. 741 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,360 Yeah, well, no one else is emailing me or contacting me or 742 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,680 deeming me at 3:00 so I can get a lot of stuff done before the 743 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,160 world wakes up. No, I I agree, man. 744 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,600 That's that's so true. But yeah, so let's talk about 745 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:19,160 the as it pertains to what people think happens over the 746 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,720 long haul to hormonal health, 'cause I feel like a lot of guys 747 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,800 are the assumption that, you know, I'm getting, you know, 748 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,600 anything past 30, you just start to see a steady decline. 749 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,080 Is that in line from a natural physiological response, or is 750 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,160 that more so the environmental factors that we now find 751 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,000 ourselves in? And it shouldn't be that way. 752 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,440 Yeah, I I don't think it should be that way. 753 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,360 I definitely feel like there's you know we're in a day and age 754 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,720 where you know environment like you said lifestyle factors have 755 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:55,520 taken such a toll that it is definitely compromising our our 756 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,680 endocrine system. I mean there if you look there's 757 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,680 there's infertility issues more than ever there you know a lot 758 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:11,480 of people are are just you know having having to you use use IVF 759 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,120 you know to get pregnant. And I mean there's there's 760 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,960 there's been a there's been a a shift in in in hormones both for 761 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,600 men and women and it definitely it definitely has there's 762 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,680 something going on. There's not like it's not like a 763 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,200 just a a a natural phenomenon. You know, it's kind of some 764 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,760 there's some kind of like environmental or lifestyle or I 765 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,520 don't know if it's if it's like all these different viruses and 766 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,960 things that are going around contributing to it either, but 767 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,720 definitely something's going on but. 768 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,560 It's interesting because like, I don't know what the epigenetic 769 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,520 effect is, 'cause I mean like like what my lifestyle consists 770 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,480 of is gonna have an epigenetic effect, you know, 3 generations, 771 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,280 4 generations deep. I don't know how much that is 772 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,320 related to hormone health necessarily. 773 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,560 Like, I don't know if my testosterone levels throughout 774 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,120 my existence are gonna be replicated in my kid, his kid 775 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,600 and his kid. I don't know if that is gonna 776 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,280 have as much of an epigenetic effect or not. 777 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,760 I don't know what the science says on that, but I I I feel 778 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,960 like it would have to have some degree of of, you know, effect 779 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,520 on it. Yeah, that that that would be, 780 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,280 that would be so interesting to to to to find out to learn 781 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,320 because definitely it was definitely just been something 782 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,640 you know a shift in like just in hormones. 783 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:38,440 I I like I you see younger you know younger kids like maturing 784 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,040 and growing faster than I don't know. 785 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,480 I, I if you notice this like when I was a kid, like you know, 786 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,600 when I was, you know, in like junior high, we were all pretty 787 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,560 small. Like now I see kids nowadays in 788 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,600 junior high, there's there's they're, they're like the sizes 789 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,120 of high school kids. Yeah. 790 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,640 Yeah. And not necessarily a good way. 791 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:56,760 Not exactly. Not in a good way. 792 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,160 They're, I mean they're big and it's just, yeah, it's just 793 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,120 there's there's even when I look back at like like for example 794 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,080 pictures of like when my parents were like in you know, you know 795 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,200 in their 20s, whatever. Everyone was very skinny very 796 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,280 lean, you know, healthy looking. And now it's just, you know, we 797 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,640 just we just a different day and age. 798 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,640 We're just, there's a lot. We're just bigger people, you 799 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,360 know? Well, I think a lot of it, I 800 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,680 mean like the the prevalence of type 2 diabetes in adolescence 801 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,800 is an alarming metric. But when you look at how these 802 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,360 kids during their, you know, years of development are 803 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,080 overweight and just using a totally, you know, totally 804 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,920 compromised diet like that is going to most definitely have a 805 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,360 lingering effect on their hormonal health as they reach, 806 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,720 you know, puberty and development past that. 807 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:51,240 I mean, like if you were an adolescent, you're growing 808 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,440 through the years when your your testes are developing and you're 809 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,160 eating nothing but sugar, not ample dietary fat and you're 810 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:58,600 overweight. Like you're not going to be 811 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,720 producing ample testosterone at an optimal level when you're in 812 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:04,520 your 20s and 30s areas. No, I think and I think we're on 813 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,400 to something with that, with that that that that whole 814 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,880 mindset because when it comes to men and and the fact that like 815 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,840 so many so many Americans are overweight now especially you 816 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,120 know especially men are just overweight compared to 30-40 817 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,320 years ago. I I went to a junior high 818 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,600 wrestling tournament a couple weeks ago I was shocked at just 819 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,520 how major kids wrestling in in junior high and they're they 820 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,200 were all like pretty pretty much obese you know like just had a 821 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,480 lot. I didn't see really any 822 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,320 definition in any any of these kids muscle definition. 823 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,120 And so when when when a man has, when a male has excess body fat, 824 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:49,920 that body fat essentially responds like like like an ovary 825 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,680 of of a of a of a woman. What it does is so body fat 826 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,560 actually has a high amount of something called an aromatase. 827 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,440 So what happens is when our, when when our body is making 828 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,720 testosterone and when you have this excess adipose tissue, that 829 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:06,920 adipose tissue, what it will do, it'll convert that testosterone 830 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,720 into estradiol. So. 831 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,280 So we're seeing that that itself could be a, a, a significant 832 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,280 component of like why you're having a lot of guys with 833 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,760 testosterone that's otherwise is, is, is is not converting 834 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,000 into estrogen because of the excess body fat. 835 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,840 Yeah. Yeah, it it is crazy how much 836 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,840 body fat plays a contributing role here. 837 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,080 What what about sex, hormone binding, globulin. 838 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,720 So I've always been on the higher end of the spectrum with 839 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:40,280 regard to the the healthy range of SHBG. 840 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,520 But I've noticed, like in all the research that I've done it 841 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,920 that seems like an incredibly individualized thing. 842 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,200 Like like there's not really a whole lot that you can do if if 843 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,480 you are dialing in your nutrition, everything and all 844 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,200 that's good. You may just simply be on one of 845 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,000 the spectrum or the other. But that doesn't necessarily, 846 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,760 you know, indicative of your hormone health overall. 847 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:05,600 One thing I have seen is this is especially when individuals are 848 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,960 for example, doing a lot of of fasting or if they're in a 849 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,240 deficit of, you know, losing, losing weight, getting their 850 00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:17,120 body fat done. I do see that driving SHBG up 851 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,040 more so as well As for men, you know. 852 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,360 So when guys in Alaska patient here, do you, do you participate 853 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,680 in like do you is it fast or do you do some intermittent 854 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,720 fasting? Oh yeah, I do it. 855 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,640 I fast every day. I don't eat until like 2:00 856 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,680 whatever. And these guys have high SHBG 857 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,240 and then when they kind of like move away from that or or make 858 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:43,280 changes, I'll see their SHBG drop. 859 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:44,960 Interesting. So you think it's? 860 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,960 A little bit, yeah. There. 861 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,480 Well, there could, there definitely could be, it's, it's 862 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,040 definitely insulin related to some degree. 863 00:46:54,040 --> 00:47:01,800 But I also, I also do see SHBG being being high in individuals 864 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,960 with high estrogen as well. For example, women that are on 865 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,720 some sort of like birth control, their SHBG is often through the 866 00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:13,640 roof. It's like super high because the 867 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,840 estrogen will drive it up. But yeah, there, there, and and 868 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,920 there is also some individuality that seems to be like some 869 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,200 genetic components, some 'cause I do see some individuals that 870 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:30,040 have very low SHBG and it's just like they their, their it's just 871 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,160 their testosterone. It's like, it's like they 872 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,640 metabolize your testosterone so quickly, 'cause they can't, they 873 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,720 can't hold on to it. Yeah, yeah. 874 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,360 You mentioned birth control and I mean, I'm like guys, so I 875 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,880 probably do not have a leg to stand on to really talk about 876 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,000 this. But. 877 00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:49,360 It is wild how much that has an impact on endogenous production 878 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,480 as well from like just a overall health and well-being 879 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,720 standpoint. Like you know they and they 880 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:57,400 don't talk about that in most, most settings like women get on 881 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,520 birth control just kind of flippantly because they don't 882 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,560 want to have a painful period. Like there's a lot of factors at 883 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,520 play there, but there's not really any discussion as to what 884 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,680 that does long term downstream. And I wish there was a 885 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:11,120 conversation around that. Because once once Crystal and I 886 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,960 started diving into that, it's like, OK, we we got her off of 887 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,920 that and we started, you know, using you know, temperature 888 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,440 measurements and tracking things much more closely because we 889 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,640 wanted to be smart. But it's like just simply 890 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,520 getting on a a birth control pill or something flippantly 891 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,200 without doing much research is probably not a wise move. 892 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,840 No, I totally agree. I mean The thing is, is with 893 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,600 women, you know, you never really know how genetically how 894 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,080 like their body is going to metabolize estrogen. 895 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,000 In fact there's different estrogen metabolites, some of 896 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,840 which are pro inflammatory and not not desirable. 897 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,640 But you know you know a lot of times these doctors just just 898 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,760 put up a woman like any other woman on on birth control 899 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,800 without knowing that they may convert their estrogen into like 900 00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,920 the more inflammatory not ideal estrogen and and and they they 901 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,200 tend to suffer the consequences from that weight gain pain. 902 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,560 You know they just just feeling lousy and that's yeah it's just 903 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,280 even though that's a hormone they're putting them on and 904 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,200 definitely it can and will have like you know UN unknown long 905 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,240 term side effects. Yeah, I mean anything like you 906 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:24,760 stop thinking about it makes total sense. 907 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,840 Like you are literally placing something in your body that is 908 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,680 going to be a sustained release of hormones at all times, like 909 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,400 that is going to have an impact downstream. 910 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,920 You're going to oh, 100%, yes. 100%, All right. 911 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,960 Well, let's talk about, I'm trying to think man like how how 912 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:48,040 do you want to tackle the the optimization standpoint from you 913 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,080 know exotic supplementation for guys. 914 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,520 Let's just tackle guys first, because I feel like that is 915 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,320 something I feel like within the the realm of peptides and 916 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,720 HRTTRT, like that is an ever growing sector of male 917 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:04,640 optimization. And right now it seems as though 918 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,480 it's the Wild West. You've got clinics popping up 919 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,560 everywhere. You have a lot of people that 920 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,720 are backed by science and you have a lot of people that are 921 00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:15,040 are not backed and then they're just, you know, going in guns 922 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,480 blazing, not really know what they're doing. 923 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,920 So like how is blokes different in that department? 924 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,720 Definitely. We we definitely do approach 925 00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:27,320 each each individual as an individual like all of our all 926 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,600 of our programs are are very customized to that person. 927 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,960 That's why when we start with labs, you know I kind of 928 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,280 mentioned like one of the potential therapies that we 929 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,160 might offer guys and is is in clomiphene. 930 00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:43,400 It might, it might just be supplements to start out with. 931 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,280 It might be in clomiphene, it might be in some cases it might 932 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,960 be it might be TRT. But that that would be when that 933 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,840 guy, I mean that individual like that would be the best option 934 00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,640 for them. Now even if we do put a guy on 935 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,640 testosterone replacement therapy, this is something where 936 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,360 we have the philosophy where we we're gonna with the dosing, 937 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,880 we're gonna start low and move slow. 938 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,160 We're not gonna, you know, just you know, unfortunately like you 939 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,640 said, like a lot of these clinics, they, they shoot guys 940 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,600 to the moon. They want you guys to feel like 941 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,040 like Superman. And problem with that is when 942 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,120 you're dosing these guys too high, a lot of these clinics 943 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,800 where they do, they'll put a guy on a high dose testosterone, and 944 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,520 right out the gate they'll put him on like an estrogen blocker, 945 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,360 which I'm not a huge, I'm not a fan of, of a lot of these 946 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,320 estrogen blockers. In fact, if you're dosing a guy 947 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:40,120 appropriately with testosterone, he should never need an 948 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,000 aromatase inhibitor. In fact, you're doing more harm 949 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,400 than good when you're blocking estrogen too low. 950 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,680 Estradiol actually provides a lot of benefits for men, Heart 951 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,800 health benefits, brain health benefits, bone density benefits 952 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,160 even it even contributes to libido. 953 00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,040 A lot of the a lot of the things that we seem to attribute to 954 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,720 testosterone actually comes from estradiol, which is, But you 955 00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,280 know a lot of these clinics like you said the they'll put these 956 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,240 guys on on high, high TRT and they'll put them on an on an an 957 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,680 atrozole or some sort of aromatase inhibitor. 958 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,440 Then then their estradiol is like 10 and then you're actually 959 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,480 doing more harm than good to that guy because there there is 960 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,280 literature that shows when a guys estradiol level is that low 961 00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:30,080 his risk of dying of all cause mortality can go up to like 3 962 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,160 like over 300% wow. From having low estradiol. 963 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:39,000 So, so yeah, we we approach every guy as an individual find 964 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,920 out like you know what, what is it he needs to optimize his 965 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,960 testosterone. You know, what's his age, what's 966 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,120 his goal? What's you know where's he at in 967 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:52,120 his life, Is he having you want to have more kids And then come 968 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,960 up with the with the plan that that that fits him and his 969 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,560 family And then we're going to monitor him closely and make 970 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:06,040 sure that that is done right. There's, I've had. 971 00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:07,280 I've. I've tried to figure out the 972 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,360 best way to frame this question when I've ever brought people on 973 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,000 the podcast that talk about HRT and I still haven't figured it 974 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,120 out. So I'm gonna try again with you. 975 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,000 But like, there are certainly purists out there and I'm kind 976 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,520 of on that spectrum as a natural bodybuilder who it's like, I 977 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,040 just want to figure out what I can do to optimize everything as 978 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,480 naturally as possible. Never need to take anything 979 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,760 exogenous and just be solid. However, the more we learn, the 980 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,040 more the science comes out. It's like there is a point at 981 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,800 which you are simply going to perform more optimally with 982 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,520 these exotic substances. Like is that just black and 983 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,160 white the case or is it kind of like at what point in your life 984 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,840 would the adverse downstream effects of those exotic 985 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:56,680 supplements not overweight the the benefits that you're getting 986 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,640 from them? Like at what point does that 987 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,600 tipping point occur? Well, I'll tell you what my my 988 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:12,040 dad is 75 years old. He's, he's on TRT and he is 989 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,280 health. He's probably the healthiest 75 990 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:19,560 year old I know because his testosterone is is is optimal. 991 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,480 And so if you look at him and you compare him to his his his 992 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,400 his friends that are around his age, it's it's like night and 993 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:34,760 day. So I I'm a I'm a huge fan of of 994 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:35,960 any man. I mean here's the thing there 995 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,040 are some guys in their 80s that that that they're like outliers 996 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,240 but they have their testosterone is still optimal. 997 00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:45,680 My dad he his, his was not it was kind of not where he's he 998 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,720 could tell me he's like hey I'm just not feeling like I'm like 999 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:52,000 I'm recovering from my dad likes to work out likes to lift 1000 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,800 weights and things like I'm not recovering like I was. 1001 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,680 I'm not I'm not feeling the energy like I was. 1002 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,840 I'm not feeling, you know, just I'm just not feeling as good as 1003 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,760 I was and so I'm like, well let's you know let's get you on 1004 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:05,160 some on some testosterone and we did and he it's for him it's 1005 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,040 it's been nothing but positive. Yeah. 1006 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,440 And like it's probably not going to experience, like the the the 1007 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,840 benefit of having those, quote, UN quote, optimal levels for 1008 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,640 someone is his age is likely going to contribute to a 1009 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,560 significant net positive rather than a net negative, 'cause he 1010 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,800 probably, I mean the protective aspect of having that higher 1011 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,640 testosterone from like a, you know, strength conditioning 1012 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,400 standpoint, from preserving a more lean tissue, like all that 1013 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,040 factored in is going to outweigh the potential negative side 1014 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,880 effect of him 100% minimizing endogenous production. 1015 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,600 Because I mean, like, realistically, he's not likely 1016 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,440 going to experience a transformative increase in 1017 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,920 endogenous production age anyway. 1018 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,080 No, it's in in that's where like it. 1019 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,320 I apologize if I if I misunderstood your question but 1020 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,600 like I'm I'm just thinking like in terms of like our lifespan 1021 00:55:55,120 --> 00:56:01,280 it's like it's like the the the the longer we have optimal 1022 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,840 testosterone the older we have the optimal testosterone 1023 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,760 obviously the longer we're able to keep lean tissue stay strong 1024 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,960 be be functional that is definitely 100% gonna be 1025 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:18,280 positive for for for us And so I I fortunately I don't need TRT 1026 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,480 yet I've been I've been taking the eclomiphene and that's 1027 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:27,320 that's been able to keep my testosterone pretty optimal and 1028 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,160 I kind of go on and off it a little bit I kind of cycle it a 1029 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,240 little bit but it's just to me that's like definitely the goal 1030 00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:37,480 is keeping my testosterone optimal and that you know I I I 1031 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,160 feel I feel like in clomiphene is a little bit more of the of a 1032 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,240 natural route it's not as it's obviously not as natural as like 1033 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,960 like Tonkat Ali or fidojia I've tried those they didn't really 1034 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,280 do much for me. Yeah, what? 1035 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,680 What, what would you consider 'cause I mean, like with regards 1036 00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,360 to the, the lab test, when people go in, they get a lab 1037 00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,520 test, they see what their testosterone is, you know, 1038 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,240 depending on where you get your test results, I mean, they have 1039 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:04,000 like a a an optimal range going from like 200 to 800. 1040 00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,520 That's a pretty broad range. Yeah, no, such a good question. 1041 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,000 So what what would you categorize optimal being for 1042 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:12,120 those guys? Perfect. 1043 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:19,640 Yeah I I always want to see a guy at least 700 to 1100 that's 1044 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,920 that's optimal and and then so that's like optimal total 1045 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,080 testosterone. Now you you you kind of alluded 1046 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,920 to it like with with the SHBG like free testosterone is 1047 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,400 actually more impact more important than total 1048 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,840 testosterone because that's the testosterone that's actually bio 1049 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,120 available. So we want, we want to you know 1050 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,120 we want to be able to see the see where the free testosterone 1051 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,560 is and like you know that that I want to see, depending on the 1052 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,120 calculation is 20 to 25 is where you want to see the the, the, 1053 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,880 the free tea for it for for it being optimal. 1054 00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,240 And that rain. That that's where people should 1055 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,360 strive to be, regardless of age. Yes. 1056 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,240 OK. That makes sense. 1057 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:01,960 Because like I feel like there is a point. 1058 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,360 I mean you certainly don't want to get on TRT too early, 1059 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,720 especially if all the other environmental factors are not 1060 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,880 dialed in because then you're just shooting yourself in the 1061 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,600 foot. You will down regulate your 1062 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,600 endogenous production and if you're 20 years old you don't 1063 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:18,640 want to be doing that. But like once you Crest the 1064 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,840 point in one's life over the hill, we'll call it whatever 1065 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,640 that may be for the individual like they like. 1066 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,280 You're gonna start just losing muscle at that point if things 1067 00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,840 are drastically down regulated A. 100% I'll share a pretty 1068 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,600 interesting story with you. I don't give him much time but 1069 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,400 I'm gonna you might appreciate this. 1070 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,320 There there was a patient this guy's in his 50s he I started 1071 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,320 him on in clomiphene. When he when we started out he 1072 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,400 was at like 380 and he he felt miserable. 1073 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,760 Just didn't you know no libido. No no wasn't recovering from 1074 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,320 exercise and he wanted to go to the gym just had no no desire 1075 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,360 to. I started him on in clomiphene 1076 00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:00,000 and his levels went up to like 1300 and he felt like amazing. 1077 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,160 He's like, Oh my gosh, it. Well, this guy happened to be a 1078 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:07,600 an airline pilot and so he went to a a his physical to that he 1079 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,240 had to have done every like 6 months or so. 1080 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,320 And the doctor's like, hey man, you you got to stop taking this 1081 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:12,880 testosterone. Your levels shot way up. 1082 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,800 And he's like, I'm not, I'm not even taking testosterone. 1083 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,360 He's like, oh, OK well your levels went from like here to 1084 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,360 here. It's pretty significant. 1085 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,760 So he just so this guy, he was, he was taking clomiphene for 1086 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,880 like 6 months, seven months. And so he stopped taking it. 1087 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,720 And it just so happened we did a lab follow up after he had 1088 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,200 stopped taking in clomiphene for about two months. 1089 00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,320 He wasn't taking anything. No, no, no testosterone, you 1090 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,840 know, you know, optimization tool of any kind. 1091 00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:48,520 And his levels were still 980 after being off of being 1092 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,480 clomiphene for two full months. And how did you? 1093 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,800 Say he was 60. He was. 1094 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:57,600 He was like 55. 55, OK. Yeah, so it was really, it was 1095 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,400 super cool to see the fact that this so this guy, he got on this 1096 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,520 this medication for like 6 months. 1097 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,760 It it it really, it worked for him really well, responded 1098 01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,200 really well to it, stopped taking it for two months and his 1099 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:13,120 levels still remained fairly optimal after after being off of 1100 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:14,960 it. You you do not see this with 1101 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,200 TRT. Are there any known adverse 1102 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,120 effects to the Inclemophane? No man. 1103 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,440 I mean there, there, there's, there. 1104 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,600 The side effects are occur like less than 2% of individuals 1105 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,040 which which if they do occur they're usually like it's like a 1106 01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:34,120 mild headache that that a guy might experience but most guys 1107 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,800 feel no no no adverse or no side effects of inclomiphene. 1108 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,760 And and you would probably not need to take inclomiphene if 1109 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,880 your glutinizing hormone production was on point the the. 1110 01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:48,840 Use case for. That to be if that is down 1111 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,400 regulated. Yeah, it it. 1112 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,880 And it seems to be for whatever reason that seems to be 1113 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:58,120 something that I don't know if it's like, you know, a guy, if a 1114 01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:02,000 guy's been like in like a like a, a a, a deficit for years or 1115 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,760 whatever, that their luteinized new hormone kind of gets like a 1116 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,720 little, a little, a little down regulated, little, little low. 1117 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,280 And then jumping on in clomiphene for a little bit 1118 01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,880 seems to like fire up that whole feedback loop, you know what I 1119 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,640 mean? It seems like it activates that 1120 01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,560 whole that whole feedback loop in the body, and then all of a 1121 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,120 sudden, boom, the body's making it again. 1122 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:21,840 Huh. That's interesting, man. 1123 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,920 For sure. Well, with with you personally, 1124 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,080 man, let's just kind of round this out with you personally, 1125 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:27,640 but like what? What are you doing with your 1126 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,680 with your diet and sleep and everything now 'cause you're 1127 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,360 take, you're just taking the clomiphene as far as? 1128 01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:33,000 Supplemental. Yep. 1129 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,760 Yep. I'm so I'm taking clomiphene for 1130 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,680 for my optimizing my testosterone. 1131 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:39,920 I'm like you. I wear aura ring. 1132 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,360 I try to get to bed. I try to you know get to bed the 1133 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,040 same time I try to sleep at least seven hours every night. 1134 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:53,680 I I'm kind of I kind of follow a pretty pretty carnivore ish keto 1135 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,800 carnivore kind of kind of a lifestyle very very high animal 1136 01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,520 protein. I'll do. 1137 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,360 I'll do very many carbs. If I do, it's kind of I kind of 1138 01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,200 do I do some some bio hacks with with with with certain starches. 1139 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,520 When I do have carbs, it's it's I'll, I'll take like high 1140 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:15,640 amounts of berberine, kind of keep my my 'cause, my A1C, my 1141 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,400 hem, going A1C is always around like 4.74 point 8. 1142 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:21,520 So I keep my metabolic health pretty dialed in. 1143 01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,480 But yeah, man, I I like to lift heavy, man. 1144 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,080 I lift heavy. I'm always training for for, you 1145 01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,800 know, heavy weights. Well, that right there is a 1146 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:33,640 great way to to boost testosterone. 1147 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,320 People don't. Absolutely talk about that, but 1148 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:36,920 simply. Weight training is one of the 1149 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,480 best things. Absolutely yes, yes. 1150 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,280 That's good, man. Yeah, I found AI. 1151 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,280 Found a gym Rob that here that has £150 dumbbells. 1152 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,680 Nice. I've been I've been doing all 1153 01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,520 this Dumbo work lately and I don't have anything beyond 100, 1154 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,400 so I've been scrapping my my hand into the hundreds. 1155 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,240 But then I'll put like a a 20 LB dumbbell or a 30 LB Dumbo on top 1156 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,040 of that and that's just asking for a broken toe. 1157 01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,000 So I need. To test your dumbbells, yeah, I, 1158 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,800 I yeah, I finally. I've actually found the gym. 150 1159 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:05,680 LB Dumbbell. So I'm gonna have. 1160 01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,800 I'm gonna have to. Play with those a little bit 1161 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:09,800 nice. Have some fun. 1162 01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:11,280 Yeah. So yeah, look heavy. 1163 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:12,520 Man, we gotta get lift in together. 1164 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,160 We have to, yeah. Are are you gonna are you gonna 1165 01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,280 come back to to Omaha anytime soon? 1166 01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,720 I will definitely be back for do we know what's going on with the 1167 01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,800 hard to kill conference? Is it gonna be I'll find you 1168 01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,200 find out? I don't know for sure. 1169 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:27,280 I'll find out. But I know. 1170 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:28,320 I know. She's, you know, I know she's 1171 01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,920 probably gonna have another one. I've actually I'm I'm jumping on 1172 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:32,840 a call with her tonight so I'll ask you I've been. 1173 01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,280 Meaning to ask you that for a while. 1174 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,880 Because I know, I don't think there's anything on the calendar 1175 01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,840 currently, but yeah, if there's something going on, I'll 1176 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,840 definitely be there, in which case we will absolutely get to 1177 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,720 work at it. Yeah, there's there. 1178 01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:47,080 There's a really nice gym that opened up here in Omaha called 1179 01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:48,960 Vasa. So we have to take you there. 1180 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,800 Nice, nice. So we'll we'll get a, we'll get 1181 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,280 a lift in, we'll eat some steaks. 1182 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,760 We'll just make a day of it. Sounds good, brother. 1183 01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:57,640 Awesome, man. Well, I definitely want to get 1184 01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,080 you in back on the podcast, man, because I would love to do a 1185 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,880 deep dive into the female side of things, dive even deeper into 1186 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,320 what we talked about today, because. 1187 01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,080 There's just. For so many different rabbit 1188 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:07,920 holes than we were. So many things for I mean, we 1189 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,120 you would you'd be shocked what we do. 1190 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:14,080 I mean, for women it's like it's it's it's it's a travesty how 1191 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,960 they just, you know, there's not enough information education 1192 01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,840 about testosterone in women especially, you know, the fact 1193 01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,840 that, I mean women make more testosterone than they do 1194 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,240 estrogen and progesterone. It's it's such a necessary 1195 01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:30,400 hormone for women. And I've seen it just like 1196 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,640 completely just be life changing when you get women feeling 1197 01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,200 better, better libido better, sleep better, just, you know, 1198 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,640 recovery. So, so it's the same thing for 1199 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,120 men, man. They they they need it just as 1200 01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,560 much as we do. Yeah, and it like the the 1201 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,160 natural production of that just drops off a Cliff, you know, 1202 01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,240 peri minimal menopausal years. And it's like, yes, I don't know 1203 01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,880 if you can get that dialed in. The quality of life is likely 1204 01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,040 gonna be much better. Oh, much better. 1205 01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:57,920 Yeah. We we could talk the next time 1206 01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,040 we talk about like more peptides and things like that as well, 1207 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:00,960 so. Yeah, I wanna. 1208 01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:02,920 I wanna cover all those topics, man. 1209 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,400 So we'll definitely do that. Until we talk next, where do 1210 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:06,560 people go to find out more about you? 1211 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,600 Yeah, you can go to my Instagram. 1212 01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,680 It's it's Doctor JCJACEY at Instagram. 1213 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:19,320 You can find out about our our Blokes side of things which is 1214 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,760 get blokes on Instagram and then if you want to go to the 1215 01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,640 website, like you said is is blokes BL. 1216 01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,880 OK, es.co that's where people can order labs. 1217 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,560 They can. We even have some some of the 1218 01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,960 peptides that are in supplements that people can order there as 1219 01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:35,800 well. Nice. 1220 01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,960 And next time we talk, we got to do a deep dive on like your 1221 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,800 supply chain because I feel like a lot of people are getting this 1222 01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,640 stuff from non reputable sources and I don't think that's the 1223 01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:45,960 case. Correct, correct. 1224 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,400 Awesome man. Well brother, always a pleasure. 1225 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,440 I enjoyed chatting with you at the the conference. 1226 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,120 Likewise I'm. Looking forward to the next 1227 01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,440 convo and getting the lift in with you. 1228 01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,200 So there's everything I can do for you, man. 1229 01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,880 Just let me know. I appreciate you, Robin. 1230 01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,520 Thank you so much for this time. You bet, man. 1231 01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,120 Take care, brother. Take take care bro.