Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com.
And today I've got special, repeat guests, Vanessa the
ketogenic girl back on the podcast.
And we've had, we've done several podcast episodes
together. I've been on hers multiple
times, she's been on mine and we've talked at length about
protein requirements, calories, macros body composition,
hormonal Cycles, all that stuff. So I didn't want to dive into
that again. On this episode, i instead
wanted to really pick her brain about business entrepreneurs,
Ship, what got her into business?
What success she seeing, what failure?
She seen rebranding all that stuff.
So she's killing it with with her business.
She's got multiple content creation businesses.
She's got the book. She's got physical product now
with the tone device, so if you're interested in business,
especially as it pertains to building a business in the
ketogenic and low-carb space, I feel like this one will be a
good one for you. We also dive into what it's like
being an operator entrepreneur and also a New parent because
she has a son. Who's now 11 months old and I
just have Rider who is 7 weeks old.
So we kind of have that common wanted to pick her brain about
that. So thoroughly enjoyed the
conversation. Always a pleasure talking to
Vanessa. So without further Ado sit back,
relax and enjoy the podcast with Vanessa And we are lab Vanessa,
how are you? I'm doing amazing.
How are you doing? I don't want it so well for
people that are listening and don't they're not in the know,
we just got done recording on your podcast now you're
recording on my podcast so it's all good.
You've been on my show is this the second or third time?
I can't remember. I feel like we've done a few of
these over the years. So I'm going to bet it's the
third time. I think that sounds about right,
so I've got a challenge. Myself rather than me picking
your brain about protein calories, macros keto, any of
that stuff. I'm going to totally switch
gears and I'm not even going to ask you about protein.
So you're probably normally getting inundated with questions
about protein. So I'm going to try and
challenge myself to be one of the few that totally switches
gears on you. I'd love to talk about business
and also some parenting because both you and I are new in the
parenting world, but before we dive into them, let the Talk
business. So for people that don't know
anything about you which if they don't the living under a rock,
but can you give them like a really quick?
Synopsis of who you are, what you do, and kind of what your
brand is, and what kind of dive into business.
Sure. So I have been building this
brand which is known as ketogenic girl, since about
2015, a little bit into 2014 and I started out just doing it as a
hobby sharing recipes and keto stuff because it was my hobby.
Something that I enjoyed and people started asking me for
meal plans and at the time I was working in finance, so I'm a
Securities Trader. I'm trained as a Securities
Trader. I worked at a firm right out of
University that did equity valuations and I worked in the
stock market in Vancouver and I loved that job.
It was so much fun and towards the end I was a host on a
financial show where I was getting to interview some of the
top entrepreneurs in the Space, you know, CEOs of top companies,
especially in Canada but some in the u.s. too and it was so much
fun because I got to combine all these different passions but at
the end of the day, I didn't fully feel that fulfilled and
you know, nutrition was something I always did on the
side and University I took it as my electives because it was just
something I enjoyed and the suddenly I saw that there was
sort of an opportunity to combine like what I was actually
passionate about, which is nutrition.
Health with a career, maybe in a different way, in a new way that
I had an imagined for myself before when I was younger, and
my business eventually got so busy that I had to basically
retire from the financial sector, and leave my role there,
and just do this full time. And so initially, when I started
ketogenic girl, I was just doing meal plans meal plan programs
that were helping people, you know with their mom.
Macros on keto and there was a huge demand and need for that.
Especially in like 2015, it was such a surge of interest in
Quito and there were not, you know, as many like meal plans
and things available and then I eventually started the podcast.
A couple years later, I wrote a book Aikido Essentials, which
just published by penguin, now on my penguin random house, and
that was really fun, because I got to go on a book tour and I
felt like a rock star, and I got to go all over the US.
And, and me So many wonderful people in person and then I
ended up starting the podcast. That was the next thing which
has been an amazing wonderful Adventure that I've been doing
for the last five years. And then more recently, I
started a new business, which is basically the tone device, which
is a breath, acetone meter. And that's been a really, really
satisfying and fun, sort of endeavor, but I've been learning
a lot in doing it. And I think that that's that's
ultimately why I do anything is just to learn and grow and
probably why most people do things but the challenge excites
me to do something new and to learn about a new space and it's
been really, really fun. I love it.
You said that you loved your
prior job you interviewing the financial gurus and experts.
A lot of people quit their corporate job or their 925
because they hate it. You said you loved it.
But We're unfulfilled. So, why do you think you loved
it? But we're unfulfilled, was it,
are you just the type of person that has to build yourself in
order to find that true fulfillment?
Or what do you think? The the answer is there?
That's such a good question. I think that at the end of the
day I was just helping people make money and although that is
helpful, it's not as transformational as powerful as
you all know as helping people with their physical health and
health really is the first wealth.
No, so my husband still works in finance.
That's where we met, and he helps a lot of people to protect
their wealth and and to protect themselves from things that
we're seeing happening, how like inflation and all that.
But you know, and he finds that very satisfying because that's
his passion. He's always had that since he
was really young. I just love money and business
and like learning about that. So, I found it really fun and
exciting, but it wasn't fulfilling my soul.
It wasn't like, like it is now where I get to hear from people.
Bowl on a daily basis, pretty much where they're like this
information from this person that you had on your show like
really impacted me and, you know, changed my life for the
better. Like thank you.
And the amount of thank yous that I get for doing the work
that I do from people who genuinely mean it is just like,
making me emotional. But it's a, it shows the
powerful impact of sharing this information that, you know, I
know you're passionate about you, so it's Filling my soul on
another level, whereas the former job was more just like
fun and thrilling. This is more like maybe a line
with my, my sole purpose, like my Divine Purpose.
And what I'm think supposed to be doing, yeah, totally resonate
with that. I feel like, you know, the any
money that that you are. I make as a result of our
business Endeavors is great, because it's kind of like a
proxy for Progress to show that things are moving in the right
direction. But I feel like you and I are on
the same page and that the emails, the DMS that we get
every single day. Has somebody's life was
transformed like that is what makes us tick?
Yes yes absolutely and also just the learning and the growth like
you have to you know when you're on a weight loss Journey or a
muscle building Journey you have to Envision a new version of
yourself and what that new person is going to be like and
feel like and how they're going to act and it's very similar
with, you know, starting businesses.
Like you have to imagine and create a new version of yourself
who's now. Now, you know, doing this or
that and the amount of learning that you can do these days, I
think is really exciting, because you can learn pretty
much anything online. You can learn all of these
skills and it doesn't matter what you want to do.
You can become a Creator, you can become a business owner.
You can just there's just unlimited knowledge and learning
at our fingertips, and so, you can basically like the sky's the
limit. I think when it comes to, you
know, starting new Ventures, taking risks and going after
Stir, you know, exciting dreams that you might have.
Yeah. For like every every generation
is going to have their their you know, metaphorical or realistic
literal pandemic. So to speak and every generation
is going to have their incredible opportunities for
growth and advancement. I feel like you know, the fact
that we're living in a day and age in which you can tap into
the internet and all the abundance of information that
provides is just such such an amazing, you know opportunity,
that people Often times don't take for, you know, they take
for granted, they use that information and they only seek
out and consume, you know, - debilitating content.
But if they were to leverage that resource in terms of
finding new entrepreneurial Ventures New Opportunities, new
networks, new communities to double down on that.
Like the, the sky truly is a limit.
I mean, all that is accessible to them at their fingertips.
Yes, it's so true. And you know, all you need is an
internet connection, pretty much.
And, you know, you can teach yourself anything, the amount of
things I've learned, you know, when I went back to school, I
watch incredible animations and biochemistry and the things that
you can just learn from, you know, the comfort of your couch,
you know, you can Empower yourself so much just with like
YouTube. And, you know, it's really
amazing how you can like I was saying, you can teach yourself
pretty much any skill. It comes to running a business
as you know, there's so many different hats, you know, that
you wear and I think that it's really helpful because I've
always been a big book reader from a young age.
I always read a lot of nonfiction, a lot of business
books, but that's not for everyone.
But with YouTube, you know, you can like, learn how to build a
business, how to do e-commerce or, you know, so many different
things with like short interactive entertaining,
educational videos and and there's just so much that you
can, you know, expose yourself to To and I always think back to
garbage in garbage out, you know, like whatever you are
putting in is because going to be what comes out.
And if you are like watching a lot of like quote-unquote, you
know, trash or like garbage or things that, you know, maybe
like junk food, like, you know, television, that's just not
really impacting you in a positive way.
Then you might not get great results, but if you change what
you're putting in and you start watching content that inspires
you or is Ching. You like you'll be amazed at
what can come out of you and and what can, you know, what?
You can achieve just by what you're putting into your mind.
Percent agree, 100% agree when it comes to, you know, you
having come from a place of success with working for another
entity, while simultaneously, building your own thing on the
side and what point did you know that?
Okay, I've got to step away from the other thing I've got to
remove this Safety Net in order to go, you know, Double Down On
My Own Thing like and what It did that click in your mind and
give you enough conference? No, that's the trajectory that
you needed to take. Such a good question.
And I'm one of those people who's, you know, I'll take
risks. But I take calculated risks and
I'm very conservative when it comes to finances because that's
what I studied its kind of my knowledge base.
And the biggest thing that I saw when evaluating companies is,
you know, as you know like 90 some percent of small businesses
fail, after 5 years every time it's always people getting over
leveraged taking on too much debt.
And I think that that's Massive issue because if you you get a
bunch of, you know, money from investors, you are not going to
be as accountable with the dollars than if it's your money.
So I always to myself was like, well, I'm not going to stop my
current job until my side hustle really is at the same level or
Beyond like what I'm making already.
So you know, for me, it was working.
Whenever, you know, my regular job was done, say it like 5:00,
then I would start working on ketogenic girl from 5:00 until I
went to bed and then I would get up.
Thank you, do it for am, and I would start working on ketogenic
girl. So I would like go on Instagram
and I would post stuff and sure stuff and then go and like, look
up the hashtag for keto and just go like find and connect with
all these people. And I would do that for like
three or four hours a day and it wasn't until I think it About
maybe like seven months later that the, my first sort of
couple orders for meal plans, like really came in and the
first one that I had someone ask me to make them a 14 Day meal
plan. And I said, okay.
And they said, you know, can I buy it from you?
And I was like, okay, but I haven't made it yet.
So I then had to work through Christmas.
Poor feet was walking around the city by himself because I was
working through your Christmas to finish.
This meal plan and you know, it was it was crazy, but she was
wonderful. She just she knew that like I
needed to make it and it was then that sort of, you know, the
income from the meal plans and the programs and the coaching
started to become equivalent to what I was doing.
You know, up until then and then I decided, Well, now I'm going
to make the switch but I wouldn't have done it.
That much earlier for myself, like I just am pretty
conservative when it comes to, you know, finances and
everything that I did and have done with all the businesses has
been conservative, not going into dad's, you know, being
very, you know, careful and measured with my money because
it's my money. At the end of the day, it's not
investors money. So I'm just very careful and
cautious and I think that that's and it's just important, I think
to be profitable to, because some companies are not We see
that recently, you know, imploding in the tech space,
they're just so many companies that are not profitable and
they're just getting all this free money from people who are
borrowing it for no, for nothing or who were.
And now we're seeing like, who are the legit who are the real
companies, but you're get me ranting.
Know, that was good. I feel like a lot of people I
talk about this a lot on other podcast as well, but I feel like
a lot of people they look for like, you know, VC funding Angel
Investors. And they get this massive bolus
of funds, and they have this crazy, you know, exponential
growth, but in such a short window of time that they don't
do so responsibly and then they implode and it's just, it's just
all downhill from there. Like, one thing that we've done
with our company is that we've always bootstrapped like we've
probably grown slower as a result of it, but we've grown in
a way that is scalable with their own funding without ever
having the risk of outside investors and having to answer
to them. And I feel like That's just been
a much more responsible business plan.
It's allowed me to just have a clear understanding of why we
are where we're at and what I can do to improve upon that.
I feel like so many people, they just want to grow and have this
flash-in-the-pan phenomena and they just assume that the money
will never dry up, but it does because and then the day like,
if you're taking on a bunch of VC funding, like you're still,
you're answering for somebody else.
And I feel like if you start your own business To Be Your Own
Boss yet, you're answering to somebody else like that.
Just It kind of defeats the purpose.
Yes, I couldn't agree more. That's like my dislike
fundamental dislike for authority figures is what made
me want to really do my own thing which I was doing already.
Before I started ketogenic, bro. I was working for myself, but
was being paid, like through contracts, but I feel the exact
same way. If you take on investment
funding, you now have other people to answer to.
So, are you really working for yourself anymore?
You're kind of working like in a team, which You know, is great.
And, you know, in some ways probably brings like other
things to the table, like I know people, a lot of people have
like a board of directors and the board of advisers and all
these things that bring so much value.
But yeah, I feel I feel the same way I just like to do my own
thing and you know, do it kind of solo and and be my own boss
and that's that's ultimately. What makes it all worth doing?
Tell me about the tone device. Like, this is your first foray
into A product stop business. Kind of tell me about what
that's been like and just kind of explain what the tone device
is and kind of where you're going with that.
The last thing has been the tone of voice which I launched in
December. So, you know, I'm I have some
new ideas and things that hardest thing for me is just to
focus on one thing at a time. But right now I'm actually
working on an app for the tone that's going to be a community
based app. So it doesn't matter if you have
a tone or not. But basically for my community
who listen to the podcast or engage with my content that they
can be in there and connect in there and share their results
and their different you know, experiments and their blood
glucose or ketones and share them together and we kind of do
that a little bit in our Facebook group but it's going to
be just a base so you don't have to be on Facebook or whatever
which is something that I would enjoy just having its own
little, our own little space. So that's something that I'm I'm
actually having a lot of fun working on is the design for the
app, like the different features and it's going to have an
intermittent fasting tracker in it and you know, you can input
and track your Trends on you know different different forms
of feedback and just connect with other people in the
community. So yeah, I'm trying to just
focus on on one thing at a time. It's alright.
Yeah you got a million things going.
Your mind all at once it's hard. Yeah, anyone at, but I
definitely think that having the sense of community is totally
key. Like, that is Paramount.
I've all the content streams that you have like the YouTube
channel, the Instagram, the podcast at the podcast is
probably the largest platform for you, right?
Yes. It really has taken over, you
know, I think at the beginning, it was Instagram and then it was
YouTube and YouTube was crazy, because I was just kind of like
uploading videos here and there randomly like not, Ali doing it
with any skill or like any like real purpose and because of, you
know, how Quito is exploding? Like some of those videos would
go crazy but I didn't really, like, take notice like, I was
just like, oh, whatever. Like another video hit like
however 100,000 you know, I'm just like oh that's cool.
Like didn't really? I don't know, I didn't maybe
fully take advantage that in the way that I could have, if I had
like set up a really nice like sleek.
On there from the beginning. But I was just kind of like
getting stuff out there. And I also kind of thought that
I had to be like everywhere. And then over time I realized,
well, you know, just focus on the things that you enjoy the
most and then, you know, for me that the podcast I enjoy that by
Miles, I enjoy that the most and, you know, doing Instagram,
I think is kind of like a good complement to having a podcast,
but I just think People should know like, you don't have to be
everywhere, like you don't have to also be on Twitter and you
don't have to also be on Tick. Tock, you know, I have to also,
you know, beyond like whatever new social medias, you know,
popular that we can just pick the ones that you like and you
enjoy and you only need like a couple of them and just focus
there. And, you know, I think it causes
a lot of stress for people to think that they have to be like
everywhere. But for me, the podcast has the
biggest like, audience, the biggest following.
And so And it's also what I enjoy them all.
So that's where I put all of my time and focus really every
week. Yeah, the podcasting I love
podcasting as a medium of that. He got the YouTube channel, I've
got the Instagram, but I feel like podcasting is just for
where I tend to, you know, shine Mouse.
And I feel like with podcasting, it's kind of weird because
unlike Instagram and YouTube, like, there's no really good way
to gauge engagement person. Like, there's not like a like
button or anything like that. At least not that I'm aware of
when it comes to podcasting. Algorithms and engagement
levels, but I feel like the impact, it makes you just feel
it. But it's like, it's not like a
tangible thing that you can look and see like a metric per se.
Like, you can see the, you know, trans is to how many downloads
you get per month but like, you don't know.
I mean, you get like the reviews on iTunes and whatnot, but I
feel like with the podcasting like people come up to me all
the time, they say I heard you on a podcast or heard your punk
ass but I don't really get that, you know like oh I saw your
Instagram like it's more so like the podcast that people are
talking about but you just didn't trust that it's working.
Based off of just the feel of it, which is kind of unique to
its so true and that's what I've been noticing.
I mean I've seen the downloads, you know, going up and turning
up but there's been this like surge especially in the last
year and I wouldn't I don't want to say like it that the
downloads one up so many times but it's also that I could just
feel the community a growing and the feedback that I was getting
I decided to Start a Facebook group about a year ago for the
podcast and then people are joining that and sharing in
there. And also, like you said, I think
there's so many more people listening than you're actually,
like, aware of, which is crazy because the number of people
that I talked to who decided to try keto and then maybe that's
like their whole career now because they heard dr.
Dom D'Agostino on Tim Ferriss podcast.
That was my name, right? Can I talk to, you know, I think
it was Drew Manning last week. That was his like, the number of
people that heard that podcast and, you know, got into keto and
then, you know, the number of carnivore people who heard dr.
Shaun Baker on Joe Rogan, like, those are two just podcast
episodes that impacted like millions and millions of people
to change their lifestyle. So it's a nice long form
content. You can share so much more of
like who you are. And so, Much more information
and I think it really builds like trust and Community a lot
more than like some of the other methods maybe?
Yeah. Hundred percent agree.
I mean, like it's a totally different type of person.
There's gonna be some overlap, but like the type of person that
is going to tick tock to see, you know, something pop up in
their feed for 15, seconds is a different type of person that's
going to sit down. Listen to an hour-and-a-half
podcast with a deep down to a subject and I feel like, I don't
know, like the place that I'm at in life.
Make the place that you're at in life.
Like we want to have conversations with the type of
people that want to go deeper. I mean, you're not going to seem
like we're going to try and start a tick tock but I'm not
going to run it because I'm not going to be up there.
Doing dances you know like like we're gonna try and get a tick
tock going for the keto brick business, but like that's not
where I want to sink my teeth into but the podcasting is
because it's just deeper longer form.
Like I feel like you just get a better gauge of the audience,
you're able to offer more value to the audience and I feel like
that's just the longer. I'm content and longer, for
medium, suggest better in my opinion, I think you just hit
the nail on the head there, it's the value, like, you're giving
so much value to people, and that's what you're feeling back
because I've, I can feel that so much from the community, when I
didn't feel that ever before, when I wasn't doing the podcast,
like, you know, people like the book, and they liked my
Instagram posts or whatever, but it's definitely the amount of
value. That's, that's such a great
point. That people are like, I'm
receiving so much. And this like, thank you.
And I feel that way about the podcast that I listen to, you
know, I'm like, I get so much from this, you know, and it you
you feel so thankful and appreciative for the time like
invested into it. Yeah, totally.
So just for my own Clarity sake and I'm kind of curious.
You, you were the cute, Janet girl and you rebranded to
optimal protein and then you kept the podcast.
I'll come protein, but you re branded your Instagram back to
Kitchen at. Girl, what was the what's the
the The methodology. That what?
Why the change? What would you change back?
Like, I'm curious. This is like, my daily struggle
is, should I change the podcast to the optimal protein?
Keto? This is like my latest thing
that I'm thinking of, so my thinking and changing the
podcast and also my own content was that I felt like, I'm
focusing so much on protein now and that's like a lot of the
positive feedback that I'm getting back is people wanting
to understand that more and I Needed to be less exclusive and
more inclusive. Like, you know, we can talk
about protein whether you are high carb, low carb, vegetarian,
you know, pescatarian, whatever you are.
We can all come together on getting adequate protein,
getting appropriate protein for whatever your needs are.
And for some people that's hire some people.
It slower like, depending on what you're optimizing for.
Are you optimizing for muscle growth or aging or longevity,
you know, or having ketones which are signaling to your
mitochondria? Like there's so many different
things that you can be optimizing for and I did the
name change because I thought it was like time for me to grow or
evolve or something, you know, to the optimum protein.
Girl, and the number of messages I got like 24 hours after a
people upset that I changed it. What they were upset?
Yes, people were upset that I changed it.
And so I kind of asked people a little bit like You know, what
do you think, like, which named I did like some poles.
Unlike what do you prefer? And just so many people like
overwhelmingly. I think it was like 80% said,
you know, we want you to keep ketogenic girl and people just
wrote me a lot of like really sincere messages.
And they were like, you know, we understand like podcast, maybe
like you're changing that. But like, you know, we so
connect with you and like this name and, and I'm so glad that I
did, I think she changed it back.
I think like a couple days. Later and as soon as I change it
back, it felt right. And I was like, okay because I
was really anxious like when I when I did change it and there
are I'm really glad that I did because all of my content like
I've sort of I've expanded my knowledge on protein and really
understanding that better, but everything for me, still goes
back to Quito, especially on the podcast and everything that I do
in my work is like The importance of still having
ketones and what those ketones are doing for you.
So it's is part of like wanting some Evolution and like growth
and something different and everyone in the podcast group,
really, really love that. Like, they actually felt that it
reflected them more like as a community.
Yeah. So I was like, okay, this is
great for the group. Everyone was like, thrilled with
the name change in there, you know, because we do have some
people who are not like 80, Percent still is like, doing
keto. I did a poll a couple days ago,
but there are some people who are doing like, you know, a lot
higher carb and they want to be like, included, they want to be
part of the conversation do so. Yeah.
It was, it was like, very stressful, like 48 hours.
I was like, oh no. I gotta like go back and it's
hard to change like branding and names, but it was a mistake for
me to change it to Optimum virgin girls.
I went right back to ketogenic girl, I'm so glad that I did and
now I'm just sort of Debating if I should keep the podcast, the
optimal protein pot, Outcast. Because it's just like shorter
than optimal protein keto, but so much of what I focus on is
Quito and ketones so it's really tricky and hard to know which
way to go with it. Yeah, it is super trick in right
now. It's like, it's interesting
because you see so many Brands and companies and people like,
going through this same shift, like, I've seen so many people
in the last year, re brilliant change names.
Change color, really change everything.
And I think some of that is because like he do as a hype, I
mean the the bubble has burst in the sense of it's not like, if
you Google Trends keto right now, it's peaked.
Was it peaked in? Like, 2000, 17 and 18?
I think so. It's like not at the Zenith.
It was previously. And I feel like that decline
scares a lot of people. So they try to Rebrand to stay
on top of current marketing Trends.
And I think I totally get It. But at the same time like
there's so much research and science, it's still coming out
in support of all the benefits that it, you know, optimal
ketogenic diet has to offer. So I feel like that Foundation
is only getting stronger as so it's weird.
Like you see? Some people wanting to just
double down on keto? That's kind of the camp that I
fall into more. You see some people totally
rebranding and changing and not even using the word Quito in
their terminology at all. And I see a lot of people doing
that too. So I don't really know where the
chips are all going to fall. So, To speak.
But for me my concept is always been like look you know whether
you call it something different like a ketogenic diet is simply
in my mind, a high-quality single ingredient wholesome
nutritious you know diet and that's probably going to be
optimal no matter what you call it.
So I'm just going to keep calling to see how, you know.
Yeah, yeah. No I know what you're saying
about the research is a thousand percent, right?
Like the scientist that I've had on the podcast in the last few
months have been blowing my mind in I have never been more
excited about Quito, and I think there is a Resurgence of
Interest, that's coming and dr. Dom D'Agostino, told me last
month, the Tim Ferriss is going to have him on his podcast
again. And we all know what happened
the first time. I don't know if, you know,
Tim's, five guesses is at its Zenith, as you said, which is
such a great word, you know, as it as it once was.
But a lot of people still listen to and I think I think that the
science behind it is More exciting for me than it's ever
been, in terms of now, or understanding what ketones are
actually doing. They're not so much like this
super fuel there more so signaling to our mitochondria's,
especially to uncouple and to repair our mitochondria and
they're producing less, you know, reactive oxygen species
and less free radicals. And it's really like we're
getting such a better understanding also of how You
can get ketones while not, maybe necessarily having to do a keto
diet like the 24/7, you know. So if you're doing time
restricted eating, you can get some ketones.
If you're maybe adding some things like MCTS, you can get
some ketones. Like so they're the things that
we're learning about ketones like it's just beginning because
there has been so little research done on keto outside
of, you know, like cancer research and seizure Caesar
late. In see the seizure research, you
know, and there's been just not a lot of research done on
ketones themselves in terms of other applications like people
optimizing their health with it, their lifespan there, he'll
spend but we're starting to like understand more and more of it
and I'm so excited for the potential with keto.
Yeah, 100% I mean you were a business majors will like you
remember those graphs that they showed us in college would like
to get the early adopters, then you got like the mainstream and
you get like the late bloomers. Like keto has passed that early
adopter stays like it's it's on to like mainstream now for sure.
And with that you get more funding, you get more, you know,
just overall consensus and knowledge around the subject
matter. And for a lot of people that
were in that early adopter States like with you starting,
you know, content around Quito in 2014 and 15.
I think I started in 2016. So I was right behind you like
being in the space at that time. Was freaking exhilarating
because you were on the Leading Edge and it was just They
totally different feel than it is right now, and I longed for
that same thing, like I miss that intensity and energy, that
was there in those early years, but I'd certainly don't think
that the feeling and The Sensation that we're
experiencing now, is a result of the decline of Quito, and I feel
like some people fear, that's the case.
And I don't feel like that's the case.
And when you look at it, from a very high level, like you just
simply feel good when you're not eating crap food, and you're not
really eating much, great food. If you're on a ketogenic diet
and you're doing it properly, it's just the way it boils down
to So I feel like there's always going to be a super strong base
of people even if it's not the hype diet of the month, you
know, that's fine. But I feel like there's always
going to be a good solid, you know, foundational group of
people there that are going to benefit from the content that's
putting that's being put out. So if you're continuing your
content, your branding around that same messaging, I don't
feel like that's a big risk. Yeah, I think, you know, for me
particularly I wanted to just expand the audience that this
information Shin was potentially getting to and especially with
the podcast, it's like, well, are people just not going to
listen, you know, as a new listener potentially because
they see the word keto. Yeah.
Whereas like, if we focus more on optimal protein, which is
just like one aspect of Quito then like it can appeal and just
open itself up to more people who are, you know, interested in
that. So I think, you know, it's just,
I think maybe some of the people changing their like, Brand
Identity or, you know, changing and shifting, that is maybe just
to be a little bit more like inclusive or open it up to more
people. Yeah, but I do think that the
interest is still there, I think it is just that there's more
people who have expertise and talk about it, whereas like,
back then it was like just us like, Saudi people just like,
you know, focused and concentrated just on like a
smaller group of people. Yeah, I totally agree and I
think that's not a bad thing. I feel like you get more noise
when that happens. I mean annoys necessarily in a
good thing it kind of comes to territory though, but I feel
like as long as people are adopting this, you know, growth
mentality, Rising tide raises All Ships, so to speak.
Like there's no reason to have this aggressive animosity
towards other people that are excelling in the space.
Like, I get excited when I see people killing it in the keto
space. Like, I want to rub shoulders
with them and, you know, it's all work together because I feel
like there's no reason why we Didn't because the more people
that we had, at the end of the day, the better.
The more value that is added. Yes, 100% agree.
So, with the last little bit here I want to kind of pick your
brain as to what it's like owning the companies that you
own, you got the book, you got the content, you got the
podcast. You got the the tone device.
You got all these things going all while having an eleventh
month. Old kid.
Oh, Andy! I just can't pick your brains to
how you are able to juggle that effectively.
Like did you? Feel or fear that the business
would take a hit with having that as a distraction or has
that never been a thing that's crossed your mind like what's
it? Like being an entrepreneur,
killing it and business but then also trying to be the best
mother that you can be. No, thank you for the kind
words. It's it is really, really
fascinating. I actually found some research
on productivity that actually confirmed what was going on with
me. And my husband who he also has
his own business and he is at home with us during the day.
So we're really fortunate to have that because if we didn't,
if I didn't have him here with me during the day, I don't know
how I would get anything done because we alternate During the
day. So, you know, he'll take him in
the morning for an hour or two. And then I take him for an hour
or two. We just do that all day long.
Pretty much except for the weekends, when it's all of us
together as a family all day, but during the week, you know,
we alternate like that and then, you know, in the evenings, like
we also hang out together. But what's really interesting
about productivity is they found that some of the Silicon Valley
companies. They have this, like, Work Hard
Play Hard, sort of dynamic, At work where they want people to
work for an hour or two, and then go and do something totally
unrelated like playing a video game for an hour or two and then
coming back to work and that productivity went way up when
people started doing that. And that's why I like so many of
those companies. They have like pool tables and
arcades and like, all this fun stuff to help people, relax,
like, fully relaxed, not think about work at all.
Then go back to work and that's what's been happening with us.
Kind of inadvertently is like, I'll take Luca for, you know, a
couple of hours and then I'll just be playing with him.
I put my phone away and we just played together and interact and
I have so much fun, just being fully present and immersed in
that. And having this knowledge also
helped me to make sure that I put my phone away.
And I were fully focused on just him and then when Pete takes
them, then I go work. And we each have our office
spaces and we give each other just total like, quiet and
peace. So like what we're doing this
podcast, you know, he took him for a walk, so I don't have to
worry about like, is he? Okay, is he hungry or whatever
while he's at home and there's something about that switching
on and off all day, that's been really beneficial for both of us
in terms of our productivity. And something that surprised me
because I was worried about how it would affect my work and The
other thing that I would say is that it just makes you so
ruthless about things and time that you shouldn't spend time on
it that you don't, you know, like other people's request, you
know, I had to learn to just say no to like everything unless
it's something that, you know, like in terms of like speaking
at things or, you know, doing things for other people.
I've always been like someone who's always like wanting to
help others and support them. But when you have a limited
amount of time, you kind of Have to get ruthless and be like I
got to focus on my stuff, you know, reach out to me again in a
couple of months. And we'll see, you know, if we
can, if I can help you with that.
But I can't right now. So learning to say no is really
hard but also you focus because you know, that you have like 90
minutes, you can't, you know, waste time checking messages
from your friends or whatever. Like you have to just focus on
getting stuff done and just like you know, I'm one of those
people who Make a list of all the things I need to do.
I prioritize them with a, you know, a b or c depending on that
priority. And, you know, I kind of just
you just kind of make it, make it work, right?
But again I'm so fortunate and privileged to have Peter also
working from home because I don't know how I would do it.
Like I would we would probably need to have help of some kind
in order to be able to get work done because it is it's
definitely challenging it's like a new level.
Yeah of challenging and if we have we'd like to have more
children so I'm sure it's just going to get just going to keep
leveling up the difficulty levels, but I do feel like I
could go away somewhere for like a month and just work for a
month straight. Like I'm a lot of stuff but I
still, you know, that I feel like I need to catch up on but,
you know, you just get the most important things done and that's
all you can really like do at the end of the day.
There's a lot of time that you realize Just waste.
Normally, yeah, feel like havin a kid really opens your eyes to
where your time is being spent. I mean, because like if you're
if you've got a bunch of stuff to do from like a career
standpoint, you know business-wise and then you find
yourself scrolling on Instagram mindlessly for 15 minutes, so
you're not getting anything business-related done and you're
also not holding your kid. Like how in the world do you
justify scrolling mindlessly for 15 minutes on stupid content?
That's probably - like it's just not a good.
Good use of your time so I feel like yeah I'm having a kid just
you know UPS the ante on prioritizing your time and
having like Crystal that means she's we were in the same
position as you and that you know she doesn't have to work it
another five somewhere and after working at 5:00 somewhere, she's
at the compound, I'm at the compound like we're able to
juggle that, you know, an effective manner.
I can't imagine having like a normal job.
That's much more rigid and it's like, you know, start and stop
times, but really just focusing on, you know, maximize Optimal
productivity, when the time allows I think is key because
you don't want to, you know, trying to be answering emails
and editing a podcast while also changing a diaper like, it
doesn't really work too well. I feel like you got to kind of
get down out in and be streamlined.
But I feel like, you know, so many of the stressors that I had
beforehand. I feel like I'd be curious to
get your take on this but I feel like a lot of people that are,
you know, Taipei entrepreneurial just like go get em types, they
fear that having a kid. Kid will be create this
distraction that removes their intensity towards their business
Endeavors and I was afraid of that at first and I feel like a
lot of people use kids as a scapegoat for why they aren't
successful in life. And I'm just going to be
brutally honest. Like I didn't want that to
happen, but I feel like you have the power in your own mind to
shape that reality, that shape, the reality of your kid, in
whichever way you choose and you can choose Make having a kid and
that reality more of a incentive to be even better in business
have even loftier goals provide even more for their future.
I feel like if you're able to do that, having a kid is only a
strength as a business owner. That's 100% how I feel.
Is what motivates me now is things that I want to do for
Luca, you know, things that and potentially maybe even like what
if he wants to take over the business, you know, some days
the only I'm always thinking about that and In the back of my
mind, I'm sure like you guys do too because you also have your
business and, you know, I'm just motivated of wanting to give him
like, the best education and the best, you know, adventures and
travel and, and all that stuff. And, you know, one of the things
that we were very intentional about was moving abroad because
we felt that in North America like work and productivity and
being busy was like a really big cultural priority whereas in
Europe it's a Lot less like that.
You I mean when it's for example like for maternity leave over
here you have like, up to three years.
Wow, you know, versus like in North America, it's like three
months for some people and that's because they really,
really prioritize like the parents being with the kids for
as long as possible. And, you know, I love that about
where we are. Like, I think, you know, North
America. Everyone like loves kids and I
love family and everyone's very Oriented that's where all my
family is. And I've always felt that way,
but there's something cultural where people's priorities are
just a little bit different. It's like a small shift but one
thing that I was afraid of four years was that I would lose my
ambition or that I wouldn't get to achieve my goals by having a
baby and I have found that it has like shifted just the way
that I think about things not in a way that like If I don't reach
certain goals that all feel like I'm excused from that or
something but more. So in a way that I value my time
with him so much that it means more to me than anything else.
So it's like, you know, I've had thoughts in my mind like, you
know, should I should we get some childcare to help so that I
can get more work done? And I'm like, no, like this is
the time, like, you know, those first four or five years, like,
Such a magical time. So many people.
Tell me, and even this first year has gone by in the blink of
an eye. And I'm like, I don't want child
care, I want more help in the business.
I need to hire more, which is what I've been trying to focus
on. I find hiring really difficult
but I am starting to do it delegate more higher, more team
members because what I want is to have that time with Luke,
like that's why I do all of this stuff is to be able to, you
know, own my time and choose how I I spend it and there's nothing
that satisfies anymore enriches. My soul more than being with
him. So I want more work staff and so
that I can I can keep spending that time with him and I don't
want to miss out on it. We're thinking about put maybe
homeschooling him because we both love being with him so
much. So you know it, I think it can
change you in ways that like would step would have surprised.
The old me who was like, no I can't have kids it's gonna slow
me down or whatever. When like, it's just changes you
completely as a person. I think, you know, and and you
are unrecognizable in some ways, but it's like, it's such a
wonderful thing, not a bad thing.
Yeah, totally agree. I mean, there's not been a
single bad Sensation that I feel that has come to us as a result
of having rigel and I feel like I mean you have the like every
one of us has the power in our own mind to create the type of
environment we want to exist in. And I feel like if you have A
kid, you can use that as a strength or you can make it a
weakness but having a kids, not necessary the weakness, it's how
your mind is looking at that situation.
So I feel like you adopting the mentality that you are and
rather than trying to hire a sitter.
But rather shift your thinking to hiring people to run more
aspects of the business. Like, that's likely going to
result in you scaling the business and growing even more.
So, so I feel like you just you shape that activity around that
the life that you desire to live.
And you choose your priorities and I feel like if you do, so in
the right manner for you, there's no reason to having it
has to be a crutch or a detriment at all.
Yeah, I love that. It's so true because, you know,
you create your reality with your feelings and you know how
you're living your life. And I completely agree with
that, in spending my time doing what I love, which is like,
taking a look on a hike in the morning and then, you know, just
spending time, just playing with him and learning and having fun.
Like, that's really how I want to be spending my time.
So I do love work. I still love work, like hasn't
changed that but it's amazing how you can sit.
Down to work for an hour and it feels like five seconds.
Again, goes by so fast like people take him into the other
room and just like it feels like he just walked back in the door.
It's like okay. Like because when you do get
like in the zone or Focus like you you can just get so much
done and in like a short amount of time when you are focused and
it's really just all about your priorities but yeah you're
absolutely right. I who knows like it might just
end up being more effective because now it's pushing me too.
Hire people, which is something that I'm not good at being like
the hardest part of business for sure.
We've got a team on our team now on hiring is the hardest part
hundred percent. It is it is, it's scary but yeah
it has to be done. Well if Luke it takes over you
got to change the name again to like ketogenic boy or something.
Right. All right.
I guess he could Rock kids in ago.
He can make it work as both. Imagine.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, my husband's always joked
over the years that he was going to start.
Freeman. But yeah, ketogenic boy.
That's that's hilarious. You don't worry awesomeness,
opposed kind of vying between us of which business he's going to
want to take over. So that's going to be
interesting to see what he gravitates to more.
Yeah, well the future will tell have to keep all that.
Keep us posted keep document, the journey will just see Words
which direction he goes for sure.
Absolutely. Well, Vanessa, where do people
go to find out more about you and follow along?
Yeah, so my podcast is the optimal protein podcast.
On all major podcast platforms, you can find me on Instagram,
that's where I'm the most sort of active interacting with
people at ketogenic girl. And we have an amazing podcast
group on Facebook which is called the optimal protein
podcast group, and we interact a lot in there and sort of hang
out and share different experiments.
We're doing and different protein intakes and it's my
favorite place to hang out on And then of course, website,
ketogenic girl, you can find the tone device and all my meal
plans and programs. They're awesome.
Awesome. Well, I will certainly link out
to make it easy for people to find you and Vanessa you just
keep killing it on all that you do and we will keep in touch.
Thank you is such an honor to be on your show.
I think, for the third time. So thanks again for having me.
Well, open invite any time you want to jump on the door is
yours. Awesome, take care.