1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,600 Hello, ladies and gents Roberts like sceeto Savage.com. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,200 And today I've got special guest dr. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Stephen gun drawn, the line. He is known for his book, The 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,800 Plant Paradox, he's got, he's got several books, he's got a 5 00:00:09,808 --> 00:00:13,500 new one, coming out to this March unlocking, the keto code, 6 00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:15,800 and we dive into all kinds of things. 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,300 We talked about lectins, we talked about uncoupling, 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,900 mitochondria, we talked about all kinds of things, enjoy the 9 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:25,900 conversation, not going to lie, I'm not sure that I agree with 10 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,100 him on everything. We, I definitely did not agree 11 00:00:28,100 --> 00:00:30,100 with him on everything that we talked about, but that's Of the 12 00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:33,000 beauty of the conversation, I intentionally bring people on to 13 00:00:33,008 --> 00:00:35,700 the podcast that I have differing opinions on so that I 14 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:38,200 can pick their brain, see where they're, when they're staying on 15 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,600 certain things, understand why they stand on certain things. 16 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:42,800 I just dive deeper and learn more. 17 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,400 That's how we can all grow and get better and improve our 18 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,300 health and nutrition and optimize our lives. 19 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:51,600 So I learned a lot, I'm going to be diving deeper into some of 20 00:00:51,608 --> 00:00:54,600 the research articles. He mentions in the podcast, 21 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,400 highly encourage you all to do the same but yeah. 22 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,500 I think you'll I think you'll take something from this podcast 23 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:01,200 without a Doubt. So that for their do. 24 00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:03,900 Sit back, relax. Enjoy the conversation with dr. 25 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:16,700 Steven gundry And we are live doctor gundry. 26 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:18,800 How are you, sir? Very good. 27 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,000 Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have you get a 28 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,300 lot of things and work for now. You've got a book coming out in 29 00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:25,100 March. I definitely want to dive into 30 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:26,800 that. But I feel like we got a touch a 31 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,600 little bit on your first great successful book The Plant 32 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,300 Paradox if like that's where a lot of people in the keto low 33 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:36,200 carb space have probably heard of you and familiarize himself 34 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,300 with your work. So, can you Before you can dive 35 00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:39,400 into that. Can you kind of give that 36 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,300 listeners a little context and background as to what got you 37 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:44,400 into the health and nutrition space in the first place? 38 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,500 Yeah. Yeah. 39 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:51,700 I was a professor and chairman of cardiothoracic surgery at 40 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:57,400 Loma Linda University and very famous for doing baby heart 41 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:04,300 transplants and doing a lot of redo operations on adults and I 42 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:10,800 would be asked to take On patients that nobody really want 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,600 to take on. There are a few of us idiots 44 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,200 that would kind of volunteer for hazardous duty. 45 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:26,400 If a patient wanted to try and about truth 25 years ago now, a 46 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,600 gentleman by the who I call Big Ed from Miami 48 year old 47 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,900 gentleman was referred to me with inoperable coronary artery 48 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:38,600 disease. That means Literally all of his 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,200 blood vessels were clogged up, you couldn't put stents in them, 50 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:46,400 you couldn't do bypasses because there wasn't any place to do a 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,600 bypass, and he'd been going around the country, looking for 52 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,300 a center to take him on. And he spent about six months 53 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:59,000 doing this, and everybody who saw him turned him down, and he 54 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,900 ended up in my office after about six months, and I looked 55 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:10,100 at the angiogram, the movie of his Coronary artery vessels that 56 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:15,100 from six months earlier and I said, you know, I agree with 57 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:16,800 everybody else. There's nothing I can do for 58 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,700 you, I'm sorry there's just nothing there and he said well 59 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:24,500 yeah but look I've it's been six months, I've been on a diet, I 60 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:30,900 lost 45 pounds this, he was 265 pounds when I met him and he 61 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:32,700 says I've gone to a health food store. 62 00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:35,600 I'm taking lots of supplements and he literally brought in this 63 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,600 big shopping bag full of supplements. 64 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:43,400 He said, you know, maybe I did something to my heart and I go, 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,700 wow, you know, good for you for losing weight but that's really 66 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:49,200 not going to help what we have to do. 67 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,200 And and I know what you did with those supplements, you made 68 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,800 expensive urine, which I firmly believed back then. 69 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:58,400 And he said, well, what the heck? 70 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,100 I've come all this way, why can't we get another angiogram? 71 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:03,300 Why can't we do a cardiac catheterization? 72 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,400 So we did and this guy in six months time a cleaned out 50% of 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,100 the blockages in his coronary arteries and six months 74 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:16,899 literally gone. And I had never seen anything 75 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:20,800 like that. And I said, you know, tell me 76 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,700 about this diet ears and let me look at those supplements. 77 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:29,100 Well I had a special major back in the Dark Ages as an 78 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:34,900 undergraduate at Yale University, where I had a thesis 79 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:38,600 that you could take a grade-a manipulated, A food supply, 80 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,100 manipulate its environment, prove you arrived in a human 81 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:47,700 being and I got an honors for my thesis and gave it to my parents 82 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:49,600 and one out to be a famous heart surgeon. 83 00:04:49,700 --> 00:04:53,700 So big and starts telling me about the diet he was on, right? 84 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:56,000 I stopped and I said, wait a minute. 85 00:04:56,500 --> 00:05:00,700 That's the diet that I described made us human. 86 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:06,000 And what's in your bag is supplements. 87 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:10,100 So I started looking in his bag of supplements and I was famous 88 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:15,500 for keeping Hearts Alive for 48 hours and a bucket of ice water 89 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:22,300 for heart transplant and we put various Solutions and stuff down 90 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:26,800 the arteries and veins of the heart to do this and lo and 91 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,100 behold he was swallowing some of the stuff I was Putting down the 92 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:35,500 veins and arteries and never occurred to me to swallow these 93 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:38,200 things. So, long story short, I was a 94 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,000 big fat guy even though I was running 30 miles a week going 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,700 the gym one hour every day, eating healthy, low-fat, mostly 96 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,600 vegetarian diet and couldn't figure out why. 97 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,000 I was such a big fat guy. So long story short, I put 98 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,600 myself on my thesis from college and started taking a bunch of 99 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,800 supplements and the first year I lost 50 pounds so I'm just going 100 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,700 lost another 20 and I kept it off for 25 years now. 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:15,400 So I started teaching my patients that I operated on this 102 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:21,800 program and they are high blood pressure went away, their 103 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,600 diabetes went away or their arthritis, went away. 104 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:30,800 And after about a year of this at Loma Linda, I had the stupid 105 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,300 idea, one Friday that I was doing this all wrong, I 106 00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:38,500 shouldn't operate on people first and then teach them how to 107 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:41,500 eat. I should teach them how to eat, 108 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,500 and then I wouldn't have to operate on them for a heart 109 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:48,300 surgeon. That's a really bad career 110 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:50,200 choice. The left liquid about it, but I 111 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:58,100 get, yeah, I quit my position and set up a clinic here in Palm 112 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:01,100 Springs, California. And now we have one in Santa 113 00:07:01,100 --> 00:07:05,600 Barbara to and I actually approached it as a research 114 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,300 project and I asked people to avoid certain foods, primarily 115 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:15,600 and go to Costco or Trader. Joe's or wasn't an Amazon back 116 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:21,200 then in by some supplements. And every, every three months we 117 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,200 track their blood work that insurance or Medicare would pay 118 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:29,800 for and we could see and do Document. 119 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,300 And I started publishing what was happening with these people. 120 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:41,200 And after about 15 years of this, that resulted in the plant 121 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:49,100 Paradox, which is now five years old, this this April and That 122 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:54,100 Shook things up, in in the nutrition World, subsequently 123 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:59,200 we've had seven books in the series, the most recent one, See 124 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,000 how you like you mentioned in March unlocking the keto code 125 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:08,700 and there you go. Definitely dive into a few areas 126 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:13,300 here with regard to the diet that big Ed was eaten and you 127 00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:15,000 were thesis paper. What did that look like? 128 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,800 Like if you were to describe that diets what does that 129 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,800 consist of? Well, most people probably in 130 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:30,400 the keto community and know that no human being being a to grain 131 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,500 or a bean until about 10,000 years ago, they did not exist as 132 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:38,900 a food. What a lot of people don't know 133 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:49,900 is that all of us are originally from Africa, Asia or Europe and 134 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,900 it wasn't until 500 years ago when Columbus started Colombian 135 00:08:55,900 --> 00:09:02,500 trade of new world. Products and foods that were 136 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:07,700 completely foreign to all human beings, most human beings until 137 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:11,500 500 years ago, and that includes the nightshade family. 138 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,300 Like tomatoes like eggplant like peppers. 139 00:09:16,300 --> 00:09:22,500 Like potatoes includes corn and quinoa includes most of the 140 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:28,100 squash family and all of these different grains. 141 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:34,400 Different American Products, all, we're brand new foods, and 142 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:36,600 all of them in one way or another. 143 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:43,600 Had plant proteins that plants use as their fence against being 144 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,300 eaten. One of which got my attention, 145 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:56,300 which is a lectins, and we, in the program, remove most lectin 146 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,900 containing foods from people's diets. 147 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:05,400 And if we can't remove them, we defuse them. 148 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,700 We typed detoxify them. If you will. 149 00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:11,300 I got you, I got you a lot of people especially they're 150 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:14,100 following a standard, American diets are so out of touch with 151 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:16,600 their body and how they feel based off the nutrition. 152 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,100 They're consuming that they don't even know what they're 153 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:22,600 looking for half the time. So if someone is not optimized 154 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,800 so to speak and it may be a result of too much lectin 155 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,300 consumption. What are some you know 156 00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:30,700 phenotypical things that they're probably experiencing? 157 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Well you know, Hippocrates 2500 years ago, said all disease 158 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,800 begins in the gut and he was absolutely right. 159 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,200 I've paraphrased him as well as dr. 160 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,700 Alessio Fasano, who's now at Harvard? 161 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:57,200 We say that all disease begins with a leaky gut and I have 162 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,900 published a lot, he's published a lot that in fact, if You have 163 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,000 a disease. I can virtually guarantee you, 164 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,400 you have leaky gut, if you have an autoimmune disease, 165 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,300 psoriasis, rheumatoid, arthritis, lupus Hashimoto's 166 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:23,200 thyroiditis, I can guarantee you, you have leaky gut and the 167 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:30,800 good news is when we seal leaky gut, All of these problems go 168 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,100 away. I used to have horrible migraine 169 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:39,400 headaches for example and he's do baby heart transplants with 170 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,100 migraines. I don't recommend it and those 171 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,900 went away 25 years ago and have never come back. 172 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:50,800 My used to have horrible, heartburn used to travel around 173 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,800 with Tom's. Heartburn is actually caused by 174 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,600 lectins and once I stopped eating them and months. 175 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:00,600 My patient stop eating them, their heartburn goes away. 176 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:07,300 There's there's more and more work, that depression and 177 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:11,300 anxiety, and many things that we call. 178 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:14,900 Mental. Health issues are actually 179 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:21,500 probably gut health issues first that then affects the brain. 180 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,400 So Epocrates was right all disease begins in the gut and 181 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,500 good news is all Is can end in the gut. 182 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:33,500 So what's happening like from a minute mechanistic standpoint 183 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,100 with these elections in the guy doesn't like I just inflamed 184 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,000 flama, Tory response, it's happening there. 185 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,100 Yeah, it's actually better than that dr. 186 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:46,200 Fasano proved, that lectins and gluten, and it happens to be a 187 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:54,300 lectin can bind to the surface of the wall of our gut, which is 188 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,600 literally the same surface area as a tennis court. 189 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:00,700 Art. And that surface is only one 190 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:05,900 cell thick, we've got kind of a design flaw and these cells are 191 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:11,500 all held together. Locked arms, like the kids game 192 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:17,800 Red Rover, Red Rover and lectins can bind to the wall of the gut, 193 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,800 and they literally can flip a switch and make a compound. 194 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,400 Called zanya learn which can break these tight junctions. 195 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:35,100 And so you then have literal gaps between these cells that 196 00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,000 line the gut. And so not only can lectins get 197 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,100 through these gaps. And electrons are proteins, but 198 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:49,800 they're foreign proteins and our immune system, 80% of all our 199 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,100 white blood cells line, our got 80% and that's because This is 200 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,800 actually where trouble can come through first. 201 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:03,600 So lectins can get through, the immune system, sees them as a 202 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:09,700 foreign particle and they literally start attacking these 203 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:14,400 particles and it's that Warfare if you will, that is 204 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,500 inflammation. Not only that but pieces of 205 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:25,000 bacteria and whole bacteria can leak through The wall of the 206 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,800 gut. And quite frankly, they're not 207 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,300 supposed to be on the other side of the gut and our immune system 208 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:35,000 goes after them and lastly, what's even more? 209 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:41,800 Fascinating is normally the food we eat is digested into sugar 210 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,800 molecules amino acids from proteins, and fatty acids from 211 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,800 fats and then absorbed through the wall of our gut. 212 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,900 But if we actually have spaces between these cells, Then 213 00:14:55,100 --> 00:15:00,300 undigested food particles of perfectly, normal food. 214 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:05,700 Let's just use an example like a piece of broccoli could get 215 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:10,000 across the wall of our gut and your immune system sees this guy 216 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,000 piece of broccoli. And so what the heck? 217 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000 I have never seen a piece of broccoli before in my life that 218 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,800 is foreign. And I'm going to attack it. 219 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,400 So we now and we can measure these things now. 220 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:30,600 And so we can now I actually identify the sort of foods that 221 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,800 are actually causing the problem in the great thing is, once you 222 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:41,500 remove these troublemakers, the got literally can heal itself. 223 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:47,200 It can take up to a year to do it, but once it's healed. 224 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,700 Then people can read tolerate, a lot of foods that were actually 225 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,800 troublemakers for them when they first come. 226 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,700 See me and have all the Troublemaker foods that are 227 00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:01,000 speak lectins are kind of one of the top of the totem pole. 228 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:05,100 Yeah, yeah. It's it's amazing. 229 00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:09,700 You know when people read the plant Paradox whom have never 230 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:14,200 met me and then I'll you know I'll get a email from them or 231 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,900 they'll write to our podcast, the doctor Andre podcast that, 232 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,500 you know, son of a gun, you know, I, you know, you saved my 233 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,200 life. I took these Foods away that I 234 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,000 thought were, I was told were really good for me and Son of a 235 00:16:30,008 --> 00:16:35,300 god, they, they were the cause of my depression or they were to 236 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:39,800 the cause of my arthritis or they were the cause of my 237 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,000 coronary artery disease, like Big Ed's example. 238 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,100 And you can resolve these things. 239 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:50,900 That's what's exciting. So when you remove all the foods 240 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,200 that contain lectins from your diet, what does that leave you 241 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,600 with from a vegetation standpoint? 242 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,200 Like do you eat a lot of vegetables? 243 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:03,600 Personally, yes, indeed. I am a plant predator and anyone 244 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,000 who's been with me knows that I eat a lot of plants. 245 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:17,800 Mainly leaves nuts, a Consume ton of olive oil but all of the 246 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,300 all the leaves a lot of lot of you know. 247 00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:28,300 For instance an avocado is a fruit but it's a great fruit. 248 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:32,100 Artichokes are a phenomenal food. 249 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:37,400 The Chicory family. Many people have heard of 250 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:43,400 Radicchio or seen this kind of red ball of Italian. 251 00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:48,400 Let us is not lettuce in the grocery store and these things 252 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,000 actually not only are great for you but they actually feed 253 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,700 friendly bacteria in our gut. You know, my last few books have 254 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:03,700 been really devoted to the care and feeding of the of 255 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:11,000 microbiome, the gut buddies as I call them and getting rid of the 256 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,900 bad bugs in our gut. The gang members, And 257 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:21,600 interestingly enough, we now know that the types of bacteria 258 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:27,800 in your gut have different desires for different foods and 259 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:35,800 the gang members actually love simple carbohydrates and fats 260 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:41,400 saturated fats. And these they actually send 261 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:46,900 text messages to your brain. Brain to get more of these form 262 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:50,200 themselves. On the other hand, the gut 263 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,700 buddies. Can't use those Foods on the 264 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:58,800 other they want soluble fibers. Like are some of the foods. 265 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,800 I was just talking about and there's actually some really 266 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:07,700 cool human data not to mention animal data that you can take 267 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:15,600 bacteria from an obese human. And do a fecal transplant to a 268 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:21,600 skinny human and that skinny human will become obese strictly 269 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:28,500 because the bacteria took over their willpower is a nice way to 270 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,700 say it. So they isn't lending them to 271 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,200 just over consume calories in general. 272 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,600 Or is there something on a deeper level? 273 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,200 They're great. Question two things they 274 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,100 actually make you seek out high-calorie foods high sugar 275 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:49,400 foods, high fat foods. But as I showed in the energy 276 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,300 Paradox, my last book, these bacteria are actually very 277 00:19:55,300 --> 00:20:02,700 efficient at extracting more More calories out of the food, 278 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:08,500 you eat and literally processing it for you. 279 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:15,600 On the other hand, the good bacteria, actually keep most of 280 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,100 the calories that you eat as long as they're the right ones 281 00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:24,300 for themselves to make more of themselves. 282 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:31,400 So the surprising thing is I've never had a calorie In any of my 283 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,700 books. I've never had a macro in any of 284 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:39,000 my books we just tell people. Okay, here's here's the foods 285 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,700 you want to avoid. Here's the food. 286 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:44,700 You want to eat and eat as much as you want of them. 287 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:50,200 And people are shocked that they're eating a lot of food. 288 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:54,000 And for the most part, losing weight and that actually 289 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,600 prompted the latest book. I definitely want to dive into 290 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,900 that before. Oh, that when it comes to like 291 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,500 carnivore diets, for instance, like carnivores gained a lot of 292 00:21:03,508 --> 00:21:06,700 momentum and people seem to have a tremendous success with that, 293 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:10,000 is that in your opinion, mostly results at the complete removal 294 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,400 of lectins or do you think they're missing out by not 295 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,000 incorporating vegetables back in? 296 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:21,900 Well, I yeah, I some people have called me the, in an inadvertent 297 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:26,800 father of the carnivore diet because a carnivore diet in 298 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,400 general eliminates most lectin containing foods. 299 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,500 There's a few exceptions to that, but I don't mind a 300 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,200 carnivore diet as an Elimination Diet, but as I've written about 301 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,100 in all my books, there are some some real long. 302 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:52,500 Term. Even short-term disturbing 303 00:21:53,000 --> 00:22:01,800 effects of a carnivore diet and just to name one beef lamb and 304 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:13,000 pork have a sugar molecules called neu5gc and four. 305 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:22,000 People want to remember to say who knew And it's in eu5 GC, our 306 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,100 blood vessels, on the other hand, have a sugar molecule 307 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:31,700 called, new 5ac. We share that Sugar molecule 308 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:39,300 with fish and poultry. So interestingly enough these 309 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:47,000 molecules are very similar. And we can actually make and 310 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:54,100 auto antibody to our sugar molecule lining, our gut and 311 00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:58,500 lining, our blood vessels and attack our blood vessels. 312 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:05,500 When we eat beef lamb or pork and that may be one of the 313 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:11,600 reasons why eating red meat Associates with coronary 314 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,000 arteries, It's that to one possibility. 315 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,200 The other thing we know is that cancer cells. 316 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:28,300 Tumors use neu5gc to cloak themselves and hide from the 317 00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:31,500 immune system and this has been known for years. 318 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:38,100 The only problem is, we don't manufacture neu5gc, we only 319 00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:44,000 manufacture new 5ac. So The cancer cells have to 320 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:53,700 acquire neu5gc via US eating beef, lamb or pork and that may 321 00:23:53,700 --> 00:24:00,200 account for why red meat eaters have a higher incidence of 322 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,600 cancer. So those are I think that's a 323 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:10,100 that's that's enough of a worry. The second worry that I write 324 00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:15,300 about in the book so that's been discovered by the Cleveland 325 00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:21,500 Clinic for many years now is that animal proteins and fats 326 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:28,000 are converted in by our intestinal bacteria into a 327 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:36,100 compound called tmao. And tmao is a pretty Nasty, 328 00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:38,300 compound, that damages blood vessels. 329 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:43,200 It's recently been associated with dementia and Parkinson's. 330 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:51,300 It's been associated with kidney damage and it does not occur in 331 00:24:51,300 --> 00:25:00,000 vegans, it only occurs in meat eaters, and We can measure that 332 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,800 we measure routinely in our patients and it's fascinating to 333 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:13,500 them if we ask them to just for two weeks, give up animal 334 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:17,500 products, and we measure tmao before and after, and they're 335 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:20,300 shocked that the tmao disappears. 336 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,300 Once they do that, and they're shocked when it reappears, after 337 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:28,500 they go back and start eating, even something as simple. 338 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,500 Is a couple of bags. So those are to me, particularly 339 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,000 as art, surgeons and cardiologists. 340 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,700 Pretty compelling reasons that long-term a carnivore diet. 341 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:49,800 Probably isn't a very good idea. Also, since I study longevity 342 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:58,500 and long living humans, there is not a human tribe culture that 343 00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:04,000 Is heavily meet Laden that has longevity. 344 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,800 There's there isn't one and you would think if this was such a 345 00:26:08,808 --> 00:26:13,400 good idea that some culture would have thrived doing this 346 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,800 and they unfortunately known exist. 347 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,300 Now a lot of the studies that cast meet in a negative light 348 00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:23,000 with regard to cancer research and whatnot. 349 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,700 Those are often times in the context of a population size of 350 00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:29,100 that's also consuming a lot of hydrate, right? 351 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:33,000 And there's not really been studied, then looking at meet 352 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,800 and obeys consumption independent of a high 353 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,100 carbohydrate or higher carbohydrate diet as well, 354 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:41,300 correct? No, that's not correct. 355 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:49,700 The studies looking at neu5gc, which is all only present and 356 00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:54,800 beef lamb and pork and its association with tumor. 357 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,600 Cloaking is, I mean, it's pretty impressive, scary evidence. 358 00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:05,900 So so that's regardless of, you know, what else is being eaten. 359 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,400 So in other words, I'm number one. 360 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,800 Don't particularly want to develop cancer and if I do, I 361 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:19,500 certainly don't want the cancer cells to evade my immune systems 362 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,000 detection. Yeah, definitely have to read up 363 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200 on that up to have you send it to me via email or something 364 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,900 after this is over. I'll do some reading on that 365 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:29,100 actually. It's in the black Paradox. 366 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:30,600 You can notice references. Yep. 367 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,400 Nice neu5gc. So, what is your, I mean, are 368 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,000 you not eating much red? Meat, are you sticking mostly 369 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,500 like fish and things of that nature? 370 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:44,900 Well, I am a what I describe as a veg. 371 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:52,800 Aquarian I eat mostly plants and then you see on the weekends, my 372 00:27:52,800 --> 00:28:02,000 wife and I eat wild, shellfish mollusk, clams, oysters, wild 373 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:08,000 shrimp, wild Lobster. And we do so for reasons that I 374 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,800 go into in In the new book, but I grew up in Omaha Nebraska. 375 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:18,800 And so about every about every three months, so we'll share a 376 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:27,000 grass-fed grass-finished, steak, we will eat pastured poultry. 377 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,400 It's hard to find, but we will, and but that's about it. 378 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,900 What about the the concern with cholesterol as relates to eat 379 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,500 more saturated fats? I mean, you being a cardiologist 380 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,200 and carnivores, for instance, eating lots of animals high in 381 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,900 saturated fats, is there a pretty big red flag there in 382 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:48,400 your opinion? So it's not so cholesterol, 383 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,700 really has nothing to do with coronary artery disease. 384 00:28:54,200 --> 00:29:00,300 What, what does produce coronary artery disease is inflammation 385 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,000 on the surface of blood. Oils and cholesterol. 386 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,300 Just happens to be an innocent bystander that if you will, is, 387 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:12,600 is spackling compound, that patches these areas of 388 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,600 inflammation. So you could have patience, and 389 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,600 I have them who have total cholesterol is of over, 500 and 390 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:30,100 ldls of 250-300 but they have, absolutely, no inflammation on 391 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:33,000 the surface of their blood vessels, which we Can measure 392 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,300 and they do not oxidize their cholesterol. 393 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:41,600 And if you like the cholesterol theory of heart disease 394 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:46,500 cholesterol has to be oxidized to stick to blood vessels and we 395 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,200 can measure that other doctors can measure that and I've 396 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:56,900 published data that simple supplements, like polyphenol 397 00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:03,000 containing foods like olive oil like grape seed extract Like a 398 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,000 supplement called pycnogenol which is French Maritime tree. 399 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:13,300 Bart can actually eliminate inflammation on the surface of 400 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:19,100 blood vessels and when people stop taking these compounds it 401 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:24,200 comes back. So yeah I really could care less 402 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:30,200 about cholesterol. As long as people don't have 403 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,000 inflammation on the inside of their blood. 404 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,300 Puzzles. And since you brought up 405 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:40,600 lectins, earlier lectins are one of the known reasons to have 406 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,300 inflammation on the surface of blood vessels lectins. 407 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,500 Actually stick to sugar molecules on the surface of 408 00:30:49,508 --> 00:30:53,700 blood vessels just like they stick to the lining of joints 409 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:58,900 and just like they stick to the communication between one nerve 410 00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:04,800 and another, they they are. Literally sugar molecule seeking 411 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,500 missiles and they do a really good job of Mischief. 412 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,700 So, what's the best proxy for someone that is concerned about 413 00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:16,500 their cholesterol? For instance, if they want to 414 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:19,600 measure the inflammation in the lining of their arteries and 415 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,200 blood vessels, what is what is their best route? 416 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,900 They're like, get a CAT scan. No, those are useless. 417 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,200 There's really no correlation between coronary calcification 418 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:38,800 and plaque on the inside of the blood vessels and that's why if 419 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,400 there was a good correlation and Medicare and insurance would pay 420 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,300 for that test, but Medicare and insurance doesn't pay for a 421 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:54,700 coronary calcium, scan because there is no Definitive 422 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:58,400 correlation between coronary calcification and plaque on the 423 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,600 inside of blood vessels. And for my Cardiology friends 424 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:07,400 who think there is a correlation, I always refer them 425 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:15,700 to the paper that shows statin drugs actually increase coronary 426 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:22,000 calcification and if we were so worried about it and we think 427 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000 that statin drugs read Zeus heart disease. 428 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,300 Then why would I want to take a Statin drug and increase my 429 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:32,700 coronary artery calcification and yet? 430 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:37,900 That's what happens in humans. So yeah, so no, you don't want 431 00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:42,100 to do that. It's really easy, it's paid for 432 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:45,200 by insurance, it's paid for by Medicare. 433 00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:55,500 The simplest test is Ox, L DL, 0, x LDL oxidized LDL A better 434 00:32:55,500 --> 00:33:02,100 test, which really chose you. What exactly is happening with 435 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:09,400 all the different forms of cholesterol is called Ox P. 436 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,800 El capital P capital L stands for phospholipids dash, Appo 437 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:22,800 APO, capital B. So Ox po, Appleby is really the 438 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,800 definitive way. Of determining, whether there is 439 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,300 any risk of cholesterol attacking your blood vessels. 440 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,800 I guess it's a nice way of saying it. 441 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:39,300 So anybody that this just been to the dock for the general 442 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,300 checkup and is there pushing them to get a Statin? 443 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:44,900 They should they should go test that first and foremost. 444 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,500 Well yeah, but first, and foremost before they do that the 445 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:56,600 strongest correlation with A cholesterol profile and 446 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,700 developing the coronary artery disease is actually elevated 447 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,700 triglycerides. Triglycerides are the first form 448 00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:07,800 of fat that we manufacture from sugars and starches. 449 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,900 I could have you eat a pound of butter and your triglycerides 450 00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:16,800 would be 20. On the other hand, I could have 451 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,199 you eat a bowl of popcorn and your triglycerides would be 150 452 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:24,000 and that would scare me to death. 453 00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,699 I'm a really mean guy. I make my patients get their 454 00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:35,699 triglycerides down to 40 to 50 triglycerides as normal of 150s 455 00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:40,600 been artificially elevated because I've yet to see a human 456 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:47,100 being who has elevated LDL with low triglycerides. 457 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:51,699 Plus if people are playing with their cholesterol numbers and 458 00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:55,900 you want to avoid heart disease, you Want your HDL, the so-called 459 00:34:55,900 --> 00:35:01,800 good cholesterol to be equal to or preferably higher than 460 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,900 triglycerides. Let me give you a personal 461 00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:12,200 example. When when I met Big Ed, I had a 462 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:19,700 triglycerides of about well not of about 166 and my HDL was 32 463 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:23,800 which is horribly low. And I was assured that this was 464 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,700 Because my father followed the same pattern, imagine my shock. 465 00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:36,600 And when I took my triglycerides down to 30 in my HD L went to a 466 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:44,100 tee, I have the same genes that I had when my HDL was 32 and my 467 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:49,200 triglycerides were 166. What change was the food? 468 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,000 I ate and this is actually what made me. 469 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,300 Me resigned my position, start teaching people how to eat 470 00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:04,100 because people can absolutely positively dial in whatever 471 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:09,000 number they want to appear. And we have a number of patients 472 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,800 who have been told to take a Statin drug by a well-meaning 473 00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:19,500 cardiologist. And instead they come see me and 474 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:23,200 go back to their cardiologist and cardiologist looks at their 475 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,500 new blood work. And As boy, aren't you? 476 00:36:25,508 --> 00:36:27,800 Glad I put you on that Statin and they go. 477 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,100 Well as a matter of fact, I'm not on one and they're 478 00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:35,400 flabbergasted. Very, very distinguished 479 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,200 cardiologist. At Cedars-Sinai is now a good 480 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,300 friend of mine, just by having a few patients in common and 481 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,600 seeing what happens. And I know you mentioned, you're 482 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,700 not tracking macros or calories but via the recommended food. 483 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:52,200 You're suggesting people consume. 484 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,900 Would you, would you say that the higher Percentage of their 485 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:57,800 calories are likely coming from good quality, dietary fats. 486 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,400 Wait, I'm sorry. You broke up on that last part. 487 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:05,800 Would you, would you venture to say that a good number of the 488 00:37:05,808 --> 00:37:07,500 people. You're recommending nutritional 489 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:11,500 advice to are probably consuming a relatively High, you know, 490 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:14,200 concentration their calories from quality dietary fats, all 491 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,500 in all. Um no not necessarily. 492 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:24,700 I think we see we should be a huge mixture of people. 493 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:30,000 I have a huge number of people who have been on On the 494 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,300 traditional ketogenic diet that has failed them miserably and 495 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:38,500 they're eating a whole lot of dietary fats. 496 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:46,000 And when we reduce their dietary fats and change the timing of 497 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,400 their eating and add other ways to accomplish what they're 498 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:57,300 trying to do. With high-fat diet, we get some 499 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,200 pretty amazing results and that That's one of the reasons I 500 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,900 wrote the new book. Yes, dive into that. 501 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,100 So the new book unlocking, the Kyoko. 502 00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:08,900 What was the the primary Catalyst for that was the 503 00:38:08,908 --> 00:38:13,800 motivation behind writing them? Well I've been a big fan of the 504 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,100 ketogenic diet for over 20 years. 505 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:22,000 I it's a part of all of my books, the plant Paradox as a 506 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:28,600 key, do intensive care program that we used successfully in 507 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,400 people. Are always shocked about the 508 00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:38,400 number of carbohydrate containing foods in my ketogenic 509 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,300 diet and yet we have really good success with it. 510 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:47,000 So when I was writing the energy Paradox which was my last book, 511 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:57,600 I wanted to spend some time showing how ketones Are so 512 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:03,000 useful for improving mitochondrial, efficiency and 513 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:10,000 fat burning efficiency. And as I was trying to dig into 514 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,300 more literature to explain the mechanism that this supposedly 515 00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:19,100 happened. I realized that in fact ketones 516 00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:23,800 aren't a miraculous fuel. In fact, they're a pretty lousy 517 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,600 Fuel and this this was has been known about actually since the 518 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:39,700 1970s and as recently as 2008 work out of Harvard show that in 519 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:48,000 humans on a full ketogenic diet at full ketosis, that ketones 520 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,800 are only able to meet thirty percent of the body's energy 521 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:59,000 requirement for fuel. And at full ketosis. 522 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:06,000 The brain still needs 30 to 40 percent of its calories as 523 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,700 glucose not ketones, even though there are present in huge 524 00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:13,600 numbers. And so, you sit there and go, 525 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:19,000 we'll wait a minute that flies in the face of what we think 526 00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:23,800 ketones are doing. And so the unlocking, the keto 527 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,800 code is actually Li Hao ketones are not a great fuel, but 528 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:36,800 ketones are a very impressive. Signaling molecule that tells 529 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,400 mitochondria the energy producing organelles in our 530 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:47,800 cells to as strange, as it may seem waste fuel to waste 531 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:54,500 calories and to become in fact, in efficient at converting 532 00:40:54,500 --> 00:41:01,900 calories, Into energy and that Revelation actually happened. 533 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,100 You know, a small paper that was published in the year 2000 by a 534 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:12,300 researcher by the name of Martin brand and the paper and I urge 535 00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:16,200 your listeners to read it. It's quick, it's easy called 536 00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:24,500 uncoupling to survive and it's about how when you're starving 537 00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,700 to death. You have to save your 538 00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:34,300 mitochondria from dying because if they die, that's the end of 539 00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:38,600 you. And so mitochondria go through a 540 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:44,100 method of protecting themselves which is called mitochondrial 541 00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:47,000 uncoupling. Most people can't think of 542 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,100 uncoupling is getting a divorce or breaking up but in fact 543 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:58,700 mitochondria have Ways of wasting a lot of the calories 544 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:03,500 that we eat normally. In fact, 30% of all the calories 545 00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:10,800 we eat, never enter fully the electron transport chain or made 546 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:21,800 into a teepee there in instead uncoupled from burning as a, as 547 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:27,200 a calorie to produce ATP. But instead produce Eat and 548 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:32,500 these uncoupling proteins that control, this system were 549 00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:36,500 discovered actually as far back as 1978. 550 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:42,200 And if you look for instance, at super old people folks in their 551 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,900 late 90s, early 100's who are thriving. 552 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,500 One of the things that's fascinating about them is they 553 00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:57,600 have the most uncoupled mitochondria of of anyone So the 554 00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:01,100 phrase exactly right uncouple to survive. 555 00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:05,800 And the book unlocking, the keto code actually takes people 556 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:12,900 through the various tricks and hacks to uncouple their 557 00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:19,900 mitochondria, and you don't have to do a boring miserable, 558 00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:23,200 high-fat diet to accomplish it. That's the fun part. 559 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,300 So what is the like I want to give away your book here too 560 00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:30,800 much but what is during the the mechanism is happening tonight? 561 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,600 When you go through, what are these tricks and hacks or what 562 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,700 are some main ones consists of? Because I mean a lot of people 563 00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:39,600 are seeing great performance success in switching to a 564 00:43:39,607 --> 00:43:42,700 ketogenic diet. So is that kind of Happening by 565 00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:45,300 default and them or what? What's going on there? 566 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,000 Well, remember, when you're on ketogenic diet, you've pretty 567 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,000 much eliminated, lectin containing foods and I think 568 00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:00,800 that explains why people who do Paleo diet, people who do Peter 569 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,900 genic, dive people do a low-carb diet, people who do high protein 570 00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:11,900 diet, the thing that binds, all those together is the avoidance 571 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:15,600 of lectins, and the ceiling of the gut. 572 00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:21,900 But on the other hand, but we do know that continuous ketosis is 573 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,800 is really a performance killer for two reasons. 574 00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:32,300 Number one, ketones signal mitochondria to protect 575 00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:38,200 themselves at all costs. And to if they're going to make 576 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:42,500 proteins to make mitochondrial proteins to make more 577 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:49,000 mitochondria and to Not make proteins for muscle repair and 578 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:54,400 for building muscle. And that explains why the number 579 00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:02,100 of people in chronic ketosis 24/7 365 days a year, begin to 580 00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:05,500 get muscle wasting. We know that the muscles become 581 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:09,600 insulin resistant and it also explains why so many people 582 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:15,300 start to run and elevating. It fasting glucose, all in an 583 00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:17,500 effort. Effort for the mitochondria to 584 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:20,500 protect themselves and to starve the muscles. 585 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,200 In fact, as I talked about in the book, we know that Elite 586 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:35,400 race walkers on a ketogenic diet can achieve the performance of a 587 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:41,600 more carbohydrate based diet but only at the expense of increased 588 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,400 oxygen consumption and faster breathing. 589 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:51,500 And we go into the Mechanism of that in the book and you cannot 590 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:58,000 provide adequate fuel for muscles using ketones. 591 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,600 You can certainly provide adequate fuel for muscles using 592 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:09,100 free fatty acids but ketones as a fuel are pretty lousy and 593 00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:13,900 doctors Cahill and Owens proved this at Harvard. 594 00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:19,200 As recently as 2008. So anyone that's fat adapted. 595 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,700 I mean that they're not trying to use ketones exclusively as a 596 00:46:22,707 --> 00:46:25,100 fuel source. I mean, a large budget, my 597 00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:27,100 calories and energy comes from fat. 598 00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,200 I'm not consuming carbohydrates. So my predominant energy source 599 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,100 is the fatty acids. So I like know of anybody but 600 00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:38,600 exclusively with ketones, but but remember T tones exist? 601 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,600 Really, for only one reason. And that is free, fatty acids 602 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,100 are too big and not water soluble. 603 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,300 Of to get through the blood-brain barrier, right? 604 00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:57,300 And so ketones are short, water-soluble fatty acids, that 605 00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:01,200 can diffuse through the blood-brain barrier and provide 606 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,900 quite frankly, an emergency fuel source for the brain. 607 00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:14,800 But even at full ketosis. The brain can't get enough fuel 608 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:22,700 from ketones and It uses glucose and that's one of the I think 609 00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:29,000 long-term down down sides of a continuous ketogenic diet, when 610 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,500 you're when you're fat d'ampton. I mean the brain have absolutely 611 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,800 does need glucose but you're able to give that internally 612 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:40,300 through gluconeogenesis to the amount necessary for that brain 613 00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:45,900 and its function, correct. And if you're really on for 614 00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:50,100 instance, an 80, Sent fat diet. He may not be getting enough 615 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:56,200 protein to accomplish that gluconeogenesis and you waste 616 00:47:56,300 --> 00:48:01,000 your own protein to do it. I have several colleagues who 617 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:08,200 have attempted 24/7 365 day, ketogenic diet and develop 618 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:13,300 sarcopenia for that exact reason, so on a on a very high 619 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,200 fat diet. So am I like an anomaly Or 620 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,700 something because I've have been strict, ketogenic for seven 621 00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,100 years now, and I am a competitive bodybuilder. 622 00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:24,700 So I build muscle with every year that passes my physique 623 00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:47,100 improves my markers improve, I'm certainly not sarcopenia. 624 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,900 Sent carbohydrates. And though that's what I'm 625 00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:57,000 talking about. By definition is the classic 626 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,600 ketogenic diet. That was established at the Mayo 627 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,400 Clinic in 1920 catch. Okay. 628 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,200 Yeah. That makes sense. 629 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,200 I definitely eat a lot of protein, but I'm taken in quite 630 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,600 a high percentage of calories, from dietary fat, but I'm eating 631 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,300 enough total calories that. Even with that high fat 632 00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:15,300 percentage, I'm taking in, you know, a protein for my, for my 633 00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,300 needs. Which leads me to another 634 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,300 interesting question. When it comes to what you've 635 00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:24,500 discovered in doing what you've done for the past several years, 636 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,100 do you notice there being any differentiating factor between 637 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,100 being in a caloric Surplus versus that of a deficit? 638 00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:33,900 I mean, is there like with your energy Paradox book? 639 00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:38,500 For instance, did you equate for eternity track calories? 640 00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:40,600 You said, but is there like a significant differentiating 641 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,100 factor with someone that's in a deficit versus a surplus? 642 00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:54,900 Well, it depends on who you're eating the calories for my job. 643 00:49:54,900 --> 00:50:01,900 As far as I can tell, is to eat most of my calories for my gut 644 00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:08,100 microbiome and giving them what they want. 645 00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:15,100 And quite frankly, I'm their home and we now know that Is a 646 00:50:15,100 --> 00:50:21,100 very symbiotic relationship between the gut microbiome and 647 00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:29,200 us and My Philosophy is eat for them and as long as you're 648 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,600 eating for them, they'll take care of their home. 649 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:39,500 You and I think one of the one of the issues that I talked 650 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:45,500 about and a more traditional ketogenic diet is, Is that it 651 00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:51,000 doesn't provide adequate nutrition for the gut microbiome 652 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:56,600 to do its job and some so I don't I I eat for them. 653 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,300 It's like Jacqueline. Jacqueline. 654 00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:02,400 I got to know in his later years. 655 00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:07,400 I happen to think of him as the Godfather of fitness and maybe 656 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,200 you'll agree. But that Jacqueline used to have 657 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,100 a famous expression. If it tastes good, spit it out. 658 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:20,600 And he was actually saying after talking to him he said we 659 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,900 actually should not be eating for us. 660 00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:28,900 We should be eating for our gut microbiome and you know it 661 00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:31,900 pretty well. I think you still be alive. 662 00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:37,500 He developed pneumonia. And from what I understand did 663 00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:41,700 not take antibiotics which I'm not a big fan of but sometimes 664 00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:46,800 you need them some but he made. It to 96 and perfect health. 665 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,700 That's pretty rapid age for sure. 666 00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:53,600 Yep. I meant to dive deeper into the 667 00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:56,300 mechanistic property of the uncoupling. 668 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,100 What are some tangible, action steps so to speak of? 669 00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:03,600 What are some changes that you make in someone's nutrition to 670 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,800 really amplify that uncoupling effect? 671 00:52:07,700 --> 00:52:11,400 Well, the cool thing is, there's lots of ways to uncouple 672 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:17,700 mitochondria, besides ketones. For instance, ketones, do 673 00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:21,900 uncouple mitochondria. But you can generate ketones 674 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:28,200 from MCT oil and you can have all the carbohydrates you want 675 00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:32,300 and have MCT oil and you will generate ketones. 676 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:41,900 That's been well, shown there is a host of MCT fats in both goat 677 00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:47,700 and sheep milk products. Thirty percent of all the fat in 678 00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:52,800 goat and sheep cheese, goat, and sheep, yogurt, is actually MCT. 679 00:52:53,500 --> 00:53:00,200 And so you can actually get MCTS while eating go cheap products 680 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,800 which I recommend in the new book and there's actually two 681 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,700 blue zones. The longest-living people in the 682 00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:13,700 world who are blue zones, not because they're eating grains 683 00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:17,600 and beans. But because they're eating goat 684 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:23,300 and sheep cheeses and that's the mountainous area of Sardinia and 685 00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:26,300 Nagoya, Peninsula and Costa Rica. 686 00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:30,900 And there's beautiful evidence. That shows it's the goat and 687 00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:34,000 sheep products that they, that makes the difference, not the 688 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,400 grains and beans with that makes the difference. 689 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,400 So, that's one. Is it worthwhile for someone to 690 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,400 to check Ketone levels on a somewhat regular basis to ensure 691 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:50,200 that They have circulating blood ketones know, you really want to 692 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,400 cycle in and out of ketosis on a daily basis. 693 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:59,900 We're designed to cycle in and out normally, every 24 hours 694 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,600 into ketosis and back out of ketosis. 695 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,900 And that's, that's our design. Now, the vast majority of people 696 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:17,800 cannot do that they have no, Flexibility in being able to 697 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,700 burn fat as a fuel or even generate ketones and the book 698 00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:26,300 takes people through the various ways to do this. 699 00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:33,600 Now in addition to MCT oil, providing ketones without a 700 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,900 ketogenic diet, there are many other ways to uncouple 701 00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:42,300 mitochondria. And some of the easiest ways are 702 00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:46,300 short chain fatty acids that are Generated by our gut, 703 00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:50,400 microbiome, by giving them, fibrous Foods date and that's 704 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:56,300 butyrate and acetate. For instance, butyrate can be 705 00:54:56,300 --> 00:55:01,600 converted into beta hydroxy butyrate which most eugenic 706 00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:06,000 folks know is BH B. So, the substrate for that is 707 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,500 butyrate but butyrate in its own, right? 708 00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:11,500 Can actually uncouple mitochondria just as well. 709 00:55:13,300 --> 00:55:17,200 Interestingly enough, apple cider vinegar or any vinegar for 710 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,200 that matter works. Because acetic acid is a strong 711 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,800 mitochondrial on coupler. The other thing that's fun is 712 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:34,100 that polyphenols which are those bright-coloured colors in 713 00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:38,700 fruits, and leaves, and vegetables are actually profound 714 00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:40,800 mitochondrial and couplers in and of themselves. 715 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,600 And I've been Searching polyphenols. 716 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:52,100 Now for 25 years and little did I know that their power is not 717 00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:57,500 as an antioxidant they are not antioxidants but they are 718 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,700 marvelous mitochondrial and couplers. 719 00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:06,100 When it comes to fruits you mentioned fruits fruits have 720 00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:08,400 been in the in the topic of discussion. 721 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,600 Quite a bit lately within the keto low carb space. 722 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,900 Do you feel like fruits hold a pretty prominent place in 723 00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:18,700 people's diet or should or no think not so much? 724 00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:19,900 Huh? No. 725 00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:24,300 In my original book was famous for saying, give fruit. 726 00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:32,200 The boot fruit is as been bred for fructose. 727 00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:37,600 Great apes, only gain weight during fruit season and fruit 728 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,800 season does not occur your round in the jungle. 729 00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:45,500 It only occurs once a year in great apes, gain weight by 730 00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:50,800 converting, the fructose in Fruit to fat in the form of 731 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:57,500 triglyceride and it'll also converts into uric acid. 732 00:56:57,500 --> 00:57:00,200 Which my good friend David Perlmutter, has a new book 733 00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:05,000 coming out called drop acid. And fruit is one of the best 734 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,900 ways to increase uric acid, which can damage your kidneys 735 00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:11,600 can give you blood pressure problems can actually make you 736 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,600 gain weight and that's why fruit is really good for weight gain. 737 00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:19,500 On the other hand, the polyphenols and fruit are great. 738 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:24,200 So when I ask people to do is get out there, Jack Lalanne 739 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,400 juicer, I know you got it sitting on a cabinet someplace 740 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,700 and buy organic fruit and season juice it. 741 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:38,800 Throw away the juice and then take the pulp, which has all the 742 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:45,200 polyphenols and then mix that in two plain goat or sheep yogurt 743 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,000 or coconut yogurt or put them in some silicone ice cube trays and 744 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,900 freeze them and then bring them out and stir it into some 745 00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:58,700 coconut yogurt or some goat and sheep yogurt and have yourself 746 00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:00,900 an ice cream, which I show how to do in the book. 747 00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:02,900 Is that your preferred source of the pain? 748 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,000 No. Well I take a ton of different 749 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,000 polyphenols. One of the best sources of 750 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,300 polyphenols that everybody has access to on a ketogenic diet is 751 00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:18,500 olive oil. There are three blue zones that 752 00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:21,400 consume a leader of olive oil per week. 753 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,200 That's about 10 tablespoons a day. 754 00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:29,300 There is a very famous study out of Spain called the predamond 755 00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:32,800 study looking at people with known coronary artery disease. 756 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:38,600 Those who were made to consume a leader of olive oil per week. 757 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,600 And they actually had not only regression of their coronary 758 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,700 artery disease, but they actually had improved memory at 759 00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:50,900 the end of five years compared to a low-fat control group. 760 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:55,900 So, olive oil is full of great polyphenols. 761 00:58:57,100 --> 00:59:01,000 So in kind of taking it all that you said and then bundling it 762 00:59:01,008 --> 00:59:04,400 all together into a, an actual nutritional plan for people 763 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,800 listening. It sounds like make sure you get 764 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,700 plenty of olive oil in. Make sure you're getting some 765 00:59:10,700 --> 00:59:14,900 fish in a lot of veggies that are free of lectins, make sure 766 00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:20,600 getting a protein in and then ideally phone, a ketogenic diet, 767 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:25,000 enough fat, to make sure that you're producing ketones so that 768 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,700 you can optimize for that. Uncoupling standpoint. 769 00:59:27,700 --> 00:59:29,200 Is that more or less? What I'm picking up. 770 00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:35,600 Yeah, with the exception of you actually to achieve what you 771 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:40,500 want from a ketogenic diet, which believe it or not is 772 00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:45,800 mitochondrial and coupling, you do not need to eat a high fat 773 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,700 diet and that's the real revelation of unlocking, the 774 00:59:49,700 --> 00:59:54,100 keto code. And this was proven incidentally 775 00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:59,400 in childhood epilepsy studies children on the traditional 776 00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:05,600 ketogenic diet for epilepsy, where had growth stature had 777 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:10,600 muscle wasting and it was abandoned until it was 778 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:17,800 resurrected with a MCT oil based diet for kids where they were 779 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,100 given a lot more carbohydrates and a lot more protein and they 780 01:00:22,100 --> 01:00:27,400 still had the same anti-seizure effect of the Traditional 781 01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:31,000 high-fat, ketogenic diet. And it was actually that 782 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,800 information that kind of started me down this road saying, son of 783 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,700 a gun. We've got this, we got to eat a 784 01:00:38,707 --> 01:00:42,900 ton of fat, to get the benefits of a keto ketones. 785 01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:46,400 We don't have to and that's unlocking, the, keto coat. 786 01:00:47,300 --> 01:00:50,800 Now, when it comes to like if proteins equated for, for 787 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,600 instance, you know, protein is not a great substrate for 788 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,400 energy, so someone's going to have to get their fuel from 789 01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,900 either dietary fats or dietary carbohydrates, and someone's 790 01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:01,700 following a little carbohydrate diet. 791 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,700 They're probably going to have, I'm not suggesting people have a 792 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,100 traditional ketogenic down the sense of, you know, 90% of cars 793 01:01:08,100 --> 01:01:11,100 coming from fat, and very minimal protein, and no carbs. 794 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,500 But if you're taking in enough protein and your have a high 795 01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:17,100 energy expenditure, like if you're an athlete, for instance, 796 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,100 you're going to want to have, you know, enough dietary fat to 797 01:01:20,100 --> 01:01:27,200 fuel that demand, True and you're right protein, we lose 798 01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,800 30% of the calories and protein just in breaking it down and we 799 01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,200 lose it from the inefficiency of breaking down protein. 800 01:01:36,500 --> 01:01:45,000 So you're right protein is not a great source of fuel, but it is 801 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:50,700 a great source of making glucose, which you do have to 802 01:01:51,100 --> 01:01:57,800 somehow Compen, say, for on very high fat diet, and usually it 803 01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,700 comes from protein. Gotcha. 804 01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:01,500 Gotcha. Now I'm definitely read the 805 01:02:01,500 --> 01:02:05,400 book. It comes out in March. 20, March 806 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,800 8th, March 8. Okay, yeah March 8 and all the 807 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,700 other studies that you've mentioned there, they're 808 01:02:12,100 --> 01:02:14,000 indicated in the other, the prior books is, right. 809 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,600 There's there's like a page on your website that lists all 810 01:02:16,607 --> 01:02:19,900 these studies out by chance. Yeah, actually, if you go to dr. 811 01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:24,000 Gunther e.com. You can actually see most of 812 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:31,000 most of these studies, but the most of the studies that I just 813 01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,400 mentioned a day, are in the new book and, you know, highly 814 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,400 highly referenced awesome. Well, I'm almost certainly be 815 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,100 reading that. See what I can learn for sure. 816 01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:42,300 I'll link that to you websites. In the show notes. 817 01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:44,700 Is there anything else that's in the pipeline of having a book 818 01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:46,100 coming out? Some pretty big thing in itself, 819 01:02:46,100 --> 01:02:48,600 but anything else you you want to direct people to attention 820 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,800 towards? Well, yeah, I mean, Can they can 821 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,700 find me, dr. Gunther e.com. 822 01:02:55,700 --> 01:02:59,400 I supplement, food company is done, dream, d.com. 823 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:06,600 And actually for your listeners, if you go to gundry imdb.com and 824 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:12,500 use the code, gundry will give you thirty percent off your 825 01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:15,100 first order just for your listeners. 826 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,100 Awesome. Well, I will definitely link out 827 01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:19,500 to that as well. Can't thank you enough for 828 01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:21,600 taking the time to jump on a podcast and chat. 829 01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:24,100 With me, I'm excited to read the book, decided to see what I can 830 01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:27,400 learn and excited to dive in deeper to what you're working on 831 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:28,500 here. All right. 832 01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:30,600 Well, thanks a lot. Thanks very much for having me. 833 01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,800 And yes, head on over to gundry. I'm d.com and put in gundry 30 834 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,100 and try some polyphenols out. Sounds great and I appreciate 835 01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:40,300 you sir. All right. 836 01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:41,500 Thank you very much. Take care. 837 01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:24,100 With me, I'm excited to read the book, decided to see what I can 838 01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:27,400 learn and excited to dive in deeper to what you're working on 839 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:28,500 here. All right. 840 01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:30,600 Well, thanks a lot. Thanks very much for having me. 841 01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,800 And yes, head on over to gundry. I'm d.com and put in gundry 30 842 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,100 and try some polyphenols out. Sounds great and I appreciate 843 01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:40,300 you sir. All right. 844 01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:41,500 Thank you very much. Take care.