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Well, hello ladies and gents, 
Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com 

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and today I've got special guest
Timmy Haman on the line and we 

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dive into all things palm 
cooling. 

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So this is a concept that I had 
originally heard on the Huberman

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Lab podcast, and basically it is
a technique used to increase 

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exercise performance and 
recovery via cooling the palms 

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of your hand. 
I'm super skeptical about all 

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things that sound too good to be
true. 

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This is no different. 
But he makes a really good 

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argument here and I'm keen to 
give this a try for myself and 

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see if it makes a difference. 
And it makes logical sense when 

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you look about, when you think 
about Thermo regulation, how 

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much it impacts sleep quality, 
it makes sense that Thermo 

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regulation would also have a 
pretty pronounced impact on 

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exercise performance. 
So thoroughly enjoy the 

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conversation, open my eyes up to
some new potential possibilities

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here. 
But I will absolutely be testing

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this out, see if I can tell the 
difference with it. 

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Hopefully you enjoy it and take 
something from it. 

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I haven't got no doubt that you 
will. 

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So that further delay, sit back,
relax and enjoy the conversation

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with Timmy Hammond. 
And we're live. 

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Timmy Hammond, how are you, Sir?
I'm very good, thank you. 

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Very psyched to be here to talk 
about Hong Kong, Robert. 

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I am excited to learn. 
So I have briefly heard of palm 

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cooling. 
I am not well versed in it by 

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any means, but I'm all about 
trying to improve recovery, 

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especially as it pertains to 
weight training, resistance 

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training, and that that's where 
I've heard about palm cooling. 

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But like I said, I don't know 
anything about it and at first 

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glance, you know, it seems 
almost too good to be true. 

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Like I'm I'm a highly skeptical 
person. 

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So enlighten me and hopefully 
break my skepticism. 

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First of all, what is palm 
cooling? 

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Yeah, sure. 
I mean, I'm like you. 

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I'm, I'm very much I'm, I'm a 
sceptical person. 

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When you hear things that sound 
too good to be true that you 

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just, you kind of God comes up a
bit, then you're like not really

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trusting this. 
But to be honest, Palm Cooling 

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has kind of shocked me with what
he can do and what he can 

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deliver. 
Personally, I first came across 

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it listening to the Uberman Lab 
podcast, which I'm sure you and 

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most of your listeners have come
across at some point. 

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And it was an episode called 
like supercharge your 

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performance with the help of 
cold. 

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And I was like, OK, let's listen
to this could be interesting. 

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I mean, I since before you a bit
fair bit about brown fat and 

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those things. 
This was a different area, it 

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seemed like. 
And he started talking about 

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such studies where they had 
increased amount of pull ups. 

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Trained guys could do 4% in six 
weeks. 

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And I was like, what? 
Because often when you hear 

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things, you're like, you hear, 
oh, yeah, if you do this and you

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do that, then you're like, you 
can increase a couple of 

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percentage here and there. 
And I'm a recreational athlete, 

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so to speak. 
So like, I'm not going to jump 

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through 10s of hoops to get a 5%
increase at the end of the year.

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That's not like, you know, open 
your hair of these kind of 

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little hacks and stuff and 
you're like, well, it's so much 

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and it doesn't really give that 
much, but something that can 

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give that. 
I was like, wow, this sounds 

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super interesting. 
And I listened to that podcast 

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and as you say, I'm also, or as 
you said, you're sceptical. 

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I'm also sceptical. 
So what I did was that I started

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looking up these studies like, 
is this really true, etcetera. 

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So geeked out on the science, 
the best read some of those 

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studies because they came from 
an Greg Heller's lab at Stanford

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University as well. 
And after reading the studies, I

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was like, you know what, this 
seems like it's really working. 

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And the mechanism, we call it 
palm cooling because it's as 

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simple as it actually sounds. 
You cool the palms of your hands

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and what that does is that it 
also cools down in your body. 

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And it turns out that in our 
muscles we have an enzyme called

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pyruvate kinase which is heat 
sensitive and that makes a huge 

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impact. 
This enzyme helps or is a part 

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of producing the ATP and because
it's heat sensitive, as soon as 

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our body temperature and our 
muscle temperature goes up, the 

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ATP production goes down. 
Got you. 

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Anybody who understands what the
ATP is, etcetera, and I would 

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assume most of your listeners 
are fairly accustomed to that 

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term, understands that if the 
ATP production is shut down, the

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energy production in the muscle 
is shut down and you can't 

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continue doing what you're 
doing. 

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And this is a huge impact. 
And it turns out that if you 

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cool down your muscles, you can 
then perform for significantly 

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longer. 
And one of the most effective 

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ways to cool down your body is 
actually cooling down the palms 

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of your hands because we have 
what is called glabrous skin. 

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It's skin that doesn't have hair
follicles like as humans have 

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hair or hair follicles. 
Basically all of our body, even 

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though you can't see hair, we 
don't look like a monkey, so to 

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speak. 
But in three areas of our body, 

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which is the like our face above
our beard line, the palms of our

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hands and the bottom of our feet
doesn't have any hair follicles 

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for some evolutionary reason. 
And in these ones we have a 

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different set of blood vessels 
that is significantly Piper or 

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more abundant you could say. 
And also the blood that gets to 

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these surfaces don't go through 
thin capillaries on the way 

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back. 
So it's the most effective way 

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to cool down your body. 
So even then when you work out, 

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if you cool down the palms of 
your hands between sets, you can

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get this enormous performance 
enhancement. 

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So. 
You could effectively do it 

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whether you're palm, you're 
cooling your palms or your feet 

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like that would be. 
It's just more convenient 

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probably to cool to cool the 
palms, but the same effect could

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take place if you were cooling 
your feet. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And you could cool the like your

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forward etcetera as well. 
But as as you were alluding to 

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there, the reason why we kind of
use palm cooling is it's 

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significantly easier to just 
grab something but have your 

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shoes off and step on something 
when you're in the gym or 

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whatever you're doing. 
So it becomes the more practical

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out of the ones if you would get
the better effect if you did 

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both at the same time. 
So, but that becomes 

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significantly impractical in the
end of there. 

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And as I was saying, like the 
the first study they did on 

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this, there was trained guys 
doing pull ups 144% in six 

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weeks. 
That's what they did in that 

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study was that they did ten 
sets. 

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So it's a pretty high volume. 
And when you think about it like

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if you do a higher volume, you 
heat up more so you get a bigger

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effect. 
If you do less sets, less 

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repetitions, it's going to have,
it's not going to have as big of

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an impact, but it will impact 
pretty significantly as well. 

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They also have done a test. 
This is not the same thing or 

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like a study per SE, but they 
had an NFL player in guy called 

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Greg Clark who played tight end 
for San Francisco 49ers. 

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He heard about this because he 
used to play football for 

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Stanford before and he came into
the lab and they were like, he 

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feels like I want to test this 
and they're like, what, what are

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you good at? 
And he's like, I'm good at dips.

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So they had him do dips rest 3 
minutes, dips rest 3 minutes and

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like up to five sets. 
He was like, I'm done, I can't 

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do anymore. 
And he checked out 102, which is

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a pretty good for for five sets.
Yeah, pretty. 

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Respectful #3 days he came back.
Three days later he came back 

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and they did the same. 
And he cooled the palms of his 

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hands first. 
He did 42 first instead of 40 

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the first time. 
So he upped a little bit. 

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And then the second set he did 
eight more. 

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And then he continued to do 
significantly more for five 

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sets. 
So at the end of it, he done, I 

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think it was 135 S, 31% increase
in three days for a guy in peak 

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condition like an NFL player. 
Like, I mean, he's in top 

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physical condition and, and what
was it the better was that he of

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the five sets, he was like, I'm 
not tired. 

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He could continue. 
So he did nine sets and he 

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pretty much doubled his total 
work output. 

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Wow, and he's doing this like 
he's cooling the palms of his 

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hand intra set or like after 
each set or how? 

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How's that structured? 
So he does it between the sets 

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because you kind of, if you, if 
you do an exercise where you use

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your hands, you are likely going
to grab everything so tightly. 

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So even if you could kind of 
somehow apply palm cooling here,

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you would get basic constriction
in your hands when you do it. 

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If you think about you like 
you're grabbing a dumbbell or 

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like you're doing dips, like you
like your hands, the palms of 

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your hands going to be white, 
which means that you have basic 

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constriction, meaning the blood 
vessels kind of close and and 

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that becomes makes it Contra 
productive. 

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So to speak. 
Got you, Got you, So you. 

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You do it between sets, and 
that's also like significantly 

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more practical for for all 
exercises you can do. 

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Have you have you followed up on
any of the studies regarding 

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like cold therapy in the form of
you know, cold plunges? 

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Like cold plunges have gotten 
super popular as of late, it 

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seems and a lot of people have 
been incorporated into their 

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recovery routine. 
And one of the, the pieces that 

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I found interesting was that 
they don't advise doing the coal

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plunging, you know, immediately 
post workout as that would have,

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as that would minimize the acute
inflammation that you're 

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actually trying to garner from a
training session. 

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So as to, you know, have more 
micro tears in the muscle and 

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give your body reason to grow. 
I'm assuming that would not so 

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much be the case with a palm 
cooling technique because you're

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not really minimizing the micro 
tears from a muscular 

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standpoint, you're just simply 
signalling to the kinase that 

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you are fully recovered as the 
work at is ongoing. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And and obviously, so when it 

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comes to this, there isn't any 
kind of like studies etcetera 

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around that. 
They haven't done that much on 

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the spectrum. 
But if you think about it from a

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logical perspective, the only 
thing you're doing is kind of 

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not making sure that you heat 
muscle doesn't overheat. 

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So that that would kind of 
decrease the because in the end 

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of the day, you're doing more 
work. 

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So to one extent, you should 
have a higher amount of mini 

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tears in your muscle to then 
repair. 

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And that just because you 
maintain you don't let your 

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muscle really go really high in 
temperature that that would 

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impact the inflammation Sounds 
unlikely to me without, you 

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know, 100% saying that this is 
the case. 

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But that doesn't sound logical. 
Yeah, that makes. 

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Sense whereas like, yeah, if you
jump in an ice path, like you 

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actually bringing down the 
temperature of the muscle 

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significantly below its normal 
temperature, but with palm 

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cooling you are limiting it 
increasing. 

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So it's a very different type of
mechanism in in it. 

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So from a logical perspective, I
don't think you would have that 

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negative impact on it. 
So palm cooling is kind of like 

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the equivalent of putting like 
ample, ample coolant in your 

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vehicle's engine, whereas cold 
plunging would be like putting 

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it in the shop for a week. 
Yeah, something like that. 

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I would say like it. 
It's a bit like maybe it's a 

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comparison like if you have, if 
you're. 

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So if we cannot bring it back a 
bit like as I was saying the the

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Reese or that we have this 
enzyme that is heat sensitive 

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and the reason for this is 
evolutionary. 

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We like, we're mammals, we 
should supposed to be around 

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like 9899°F, about 3736 Celsius.
And if we just reach 104° or 

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something like that, we go to 
hospital. 

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Like it's a very narrow spectrum
that we operate in. 

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Like if we go a bit too much, 
we're in a really bad place 

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really quickly. 
And, and nature has put in a lot

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of defense mechanisms to ensure 
that we don't overheat. 

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If you think about it like if 
you're, it's, let's say it's 

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8090°F outside, you're by a 
beach, etcetera, you feel like 

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you don't want to do anything. 
You just want to lie by the 

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beach and not do anything. 
And, and, and that's nature's 

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very clever way to tell you, 
dude, don't go and run a 

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marathon now, because if you do,
you are going to overheat and 

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that's dangerous. 
As soon as you in that situation

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00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,640
jump in a pool or cold water, 
you wake up right away because 

225
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,160
all the sensors on the body feel
that, oh, it's cold. 

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00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,360
I don't need to be worried for 
overheating. 

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00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,440
So that's why you just like get 
refreshed so quickly if you just

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00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,680
jump in a pool with that. 
And So what the heat overheating

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00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,560
kind of does as well. 
When your body temperature goes 

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00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,480
up, you're, you feel more 
fatigued because the body is 

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00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,600
afraid of overheating. 
So we have like, it's a defence 

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00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,440
mechanism to avoid us pushing 
ourselves to overheat. 

233
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,640
That makes sense. 
It's a very impressed system. 

234
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,960
So how does this look? 
What what is the most practical 

235
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:02,240
manner of implementing this 
currently? 

236
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,400
Like are people like? 
Is there a device that you would

237
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,920
use in between sets or or what? 
What is the recommended protocol

238
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,640
here? 
So first of all, obviously, so 

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00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,480
it's like I'm talking to you, 
I'm the founder of Prime 

240
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,040
Science. 
One of the reasons why we're 

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00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,560
having this conversation is that
I have developed a product for 

242
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,600
this. 
I would say that that is one of 

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00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,240
the most, the easiest and the 
most functional. 

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00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,400
The studies that were made with 
it or done is a couple of guys 

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00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,880
at Stanford, as I said, they 
have created a glove where you 

246
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,560
put your hand in and it kind of 
circulates water etcetera. 

247
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,560
It's a little bit, I have never 
tested that one because it is 

248
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,720
$1500 for one hand. 
So when I first wanted to kind 

249
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,600
of try this out, I was like I 
didn't want to spend 3 grand on 

250
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,000
it, sounded cool, but three 
grand was a bit too much for 

251
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,960
that. 
So what I actually did it first 

252
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,480
in that situation was that I put
my hands in water and just 

253
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,040
maintained the right 
temperature. 

254
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,160
Because what is important here 
as well is that you keep a 

255
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:17,880
temperature around 1516°C, so 
about 45 ish Fahrenheit. 

256
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,240
Because if you go colder, so 
like I can't just sit with a 

257
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,200
block of ice because once again 
I get basic constriction. 

258
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,440
So that doesn't become, so you 
should have kind of that range 

259
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,960
of temperature too cold and it, 
it becomes counterproductive, 

260
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,920
too hot that it becomes less 
effective, so to speak. 

261
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,200
So you could use their glove. 
I said it's $1500 for one hand. 

262
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:50,560
I did a DYI solution first with 
my hands in water, brought ice 

263
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,080
to the gym, had a little rod in 
it to make sure that I had the 

264
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,880
right temperature, etcetera. 
And I, I just want to test this 

265
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,080
out and actually through that, I
mean, I was 4, just turned 40 

266
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:07,359
when I did that and I increased 
some lifts 48% by that in five 

267
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,359
weeks, which is the best gains 
I've had since I was a GUB. 

268
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,079
So, so how did you like, how did
you structure that over the 

269
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:17,040
course of five weeks? 
So you were bringing bringing 

270
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,480
this water DIY solution to the 
gym And what were you using as 

271
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,720
like the the procs like a bench 
press or or what what movement? 

272
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,920
So, so I, this was a shoulder 
press. 

273
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:32,240
I used partly I, I, I did a bit 
of pull ups as well, but I 

274
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,600
didn't increase as much in the 
pull ups. 

275
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,520
It's also, it was a lower Rep 
range. 

276
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,600
So as I was saying before, like 
you see a better impact the 

277
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,360
higher the Rep range was, the 
higher the Rep range is simply 

278
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,680
because, yeah, the more reps you
do, the more you're going to 

279
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:53,200
heat up your body. 
And so I think in I had about a 

280
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:59,000
2527% increase, I think it was 
in pull ups, which is still 

281
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,000
pretty significant for for 
someone that's 40 and spent 15 

282
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,840
years in the gym. 
Would you notice a similar 

283
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,640
effect if you're doing a 
movement in which you're not so 

284
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,040
much gripping a bar or like a 
like squat? 

285
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,520
For instance, if you're doing 
like a barbell squat and you've 

286
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,880
got the weight loaded on your 
back, is is the palm cooling 

287
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,240
just as effective there because 
you're regardless of where 

288
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,240
you're applying the the cooler 
temperature like it's sitting, 

289
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,480
that's sitting throughout the 
entire musculature of your body.

290
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,000
Yes. 
The way I would express that is 

291
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,520
that, yeah, everywhere in the 
body, it will be more effective 

292
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,920
the bigger the muscle group you 
train. 

293
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:44,960
If you think about it from, like
if you do what's called curls, 

294
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,720
bicep curls, you're not going to
sweat that much because it's an 

295
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,960
isolation of a small muscle. 
But if you start doing dead 

296
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,680
lifts and squats, you sweat 
significantly more, the same 

297
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,040
rest and reps and everything, 
because you use so much more of 

298
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,680
your muscles. 
So the more you heat up, the 

299
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,320
more effective it's going to be,
regardless of muscle, which 

300
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,920
muscle you're working. 
Gotcha. 

301
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,720
OK, that makes total sense. 
So what? 

302
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,440
What is your device now that 
you've created? 

303
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,720
Is it like a like a bar? 
Or how is that structure? 

304
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840
Yeah, exactly. 
So we, I've created what I call 

305
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:24,400
the peak performance bar and it 
is a metal bar which you fill up

306
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,720
with water. 
And then we also have a thermos 

307
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,120
with ice sticks that you can 
take from home like and put them

308
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:36,480
in so you get the right 
temperature for your entire 

309
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,120
workout. 
And as I said, I kind of started

310
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:45,000
with this pants in water. 
It was very, very unpractical. 

311
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,440
When you have a little bucket of
water that you carry around the 

312
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,720
gym and you have an ice, a bag 
of ice right next to you, 

313
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,400
etcetera. 
It was, it was not this 

314
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,200
something that I could continue 
doing. 

315
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,360
So yeah, I, I've tested a lot 
and done a lot of like kind of 

316
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,000
what works, what doesn't work, 
what's practical and so forth 

317
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,480
and come to this solution which 
works fantastically well to be 

318
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,720
honest. 
You just have that one with you 

319
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,640
in your gym bag. 
I put the ice sticks in the 

320
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,840
thermos in the morning when I 
had to work and I can their 

321
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,920
person in there for the entire 
day. 

322
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,120
Whenever I go to the gym they're
ready to be used and put them in

323
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,800
there in regardless of the 
temperature of. 

324
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,160
The water in your gym, etcetera.
You can use it. 

325
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,840
So you put the so you put the 
ice sticks in the thermos to 

326
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,800
keep them cold, and then you 
put, when you get to the gym, 

327
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,200
you put the ice sticks in the 
bar with water. 

328
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,560
Yeah, exactly. 
Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. 

329
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,240
And it maintains that 55°F 
throughout the entirety of the 

330
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,160
workout. 
Yeah, exactly. 

331
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:50,480
So we also have on on it. 
I have a little a thing that 

332
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,600
measures you can see the 
temperature roughly. 

333
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,440
So you know which temperature 
range it is and throughout the 

334
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,960
workout you kind of take out the
melted eye sticks because 

335
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,120
they're plastic and put them in.
It comes with a little little 

336
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,400
bag and then you just take new 
ones and it lasts. 

337
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,080
You have enough cold sticks in 
there for a bit over an hour 

338
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,520
workout depending on little bit 
on your intensity. 

339
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,360
And, and do you recommend people
just like in between sets just 

340
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,800
grab that bar for a prescribed 
length of time or how do they 

341
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,920
how do they do that? 
My recommendation is always to 

342
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,360
try to hold it as much as 
possible and this kind of goes 

343
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,000
outside. 
Obviously we have created this 

344
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,440
device that is super effective, 
but this goes outside this as 

345
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,680
well. 
Like my recommendation would be 

346
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,200
try to keep as cool as possible 
in your workouts. 

347
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:51,000
So I would not wear a beanie or 
big pump cowers, etcetera, 

348
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,320
because that heats you up. 
And with the knowledge we've 

349
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,120
been talking about now obviously
that's going to be 

350
00:21:55,120 --> 00:22:00,640
counterproductive. 
So I would recommend holding 

351
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,800
this one every opportunity you 
have and even outside as I was 

352
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,120
saying, like try to keep as cool
as possible when you're at the 

353
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,080
gym. 
That's going to be that's going 

354
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,840
to have a positive impact on 
your performance and how you 

355
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,960
feel. 
Yeah, this is super interesting.

356
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,680
What what about, you know, I've,
I've read a little bit about 

357
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080
sauna post workout, which is 
obviously going to be heating 

358
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,920
the body up and yet heat shock 
proteins as a way to increase, 

359
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,440
you know, there's been studies 
that Tao that it increases, you 

360
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,200
know, growth hormones 
significantly. 

361
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,200
Would there be any conflict 
there? 

362
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,600
Or would it be a similar 
situation as to the, the cold 

363
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,640
plunging and that totally 
different scenarios. 

364
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,600
And if you do them in isolation,
shouldn't have an impact on one 

365
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,120
another at all. 
Yeah. 

366
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,520
No, I can't see that having an 
impact on each other because 

367
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,880
what you do like so when you use
the palm cooling during your 

368
00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:01,400
exercise, what you do is that 
like you're avoiding your muscle

369
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,560
during the exercise to fail 
because of overheating rather 

370
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,040
than muscular failure. 
And so you can do more reps, 

371
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,520
more sets, etcetera. 
If you then go and do a sauna 

372
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,360
after the workout, that's a 
completely different mechanism, 

373
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,880
like you have already done all 
the work that and you have been 

374
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,520
actually been able to pushing 
yourself further than you would 

375
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,320
have done without the palm 
cooling. 

376
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,680
So actually adding someone on 
top of that should probably just

377
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,120
be like a stack, so to speak, 
and these ones accentuate the 

378
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,560
benefits of each other. 
Gotcha, gotcha. 

379
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,000
Now this, this is super 
interesting and I'm assuming you

380
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,240
mentioned that it it's best if 
you do both palm cooling and, 

381
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,240
you know, foot cooling if 
possible. 

382
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,680
Like I've, I've got my own gym, 
I'd train barefoot more often 

383
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,160
than not. 
I could in theory the in between

384
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,920
sets stand on something cold and
grip the bar in between sets and

385
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,760
that would that would be the 
optimal approach. 

386
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,360
Actually, you shouldn't stand on
something cold. 

387
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,720
You should sit down then and 
have your feet because if you 

388
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,240
stand you get basic restriction 
because you have so much 

389
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,520
pressure on your foot. 
OK. 

390
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,600
And, and that also goes when you
hold the bar or anything like 

391
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,400
you shouldn't, you shouldn't 
hold it too tightly. 

392
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,080
You should just hold it like 
very carefully. 

393
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,680
Like for example, if you, if you
take a glass and you hold it 

394
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,800
tight, you're going to see on 
the inside that the palm of your

395
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,600
hand is going white. 
And that's basic constriction. 

396
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:40,720
So like you're trying to avoid 
that to have the most blood flow

397
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:47,320
in those surfaces. 
I would say that I mean like for

398
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,800
a great majority of people, I 
think palm cooling is very much 

399
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,200
enough. 
I from because the way they came

400
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,600
up with this was actually they 
were were looking at how they 

401
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,320
could help people like firemen, 
etcetera to get colder quicker. 

402
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,440
And then they realized there was
a performance kind of 

403
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,920
enhancement part and that has 
become a big thing. 

404
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:17,040
But so they kind of checked or 
or or tried to no did a did a 

405
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,640
study of how quickly cool body 
temperature goes down if you do 

406
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:29,280
cooling palms, feet and face. 
And you do get a 25% increase or

407
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,160
something like that when you add
one more of them in terms of 

408
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,400
body heat extraction. 
So, but that it kind of doesn't 

409
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,360
double, so to speak, if you do 
both hands and feet, if you see 

410
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,360
what I mean. 
Yeah, totally, totally makes 

411
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,360
sense. 
Is there a length of time you 

412
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:50,440
should wait after you stop 
gripping the cold bar prior to 

413
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,720
gripping the barbell? 
Like should you let your your 

414
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,560
hands return to room 
temperature? 

415
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,560
No, not really. 
They're they're they're because 

416
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,560
they it, it isn't that cold or 
anything like the the only thing

417
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,240
would be like if you, I mean, if
you're going in doing like Max 

418
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,360
lift, etcetera, you need to 
probably choke your hands a 

419
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,920
little bit and stuff like that. 
But there isn't anything I would

420
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,000
say that logically would mean 
that that would make a 

421
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,560
difference. 
Gotcha. 

422
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,040
Gotcha. 
What is interesting, you said as

423
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,760
well that you had heard about 
this a little bit about from a 

424
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:30,760
recovery perspective and that is
a super interesting area. 

425
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,600
The mechanism isn't really known
why, but it has a very 

426
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,160
beneficial impact on delayed 
onset muscle saunas. 

427
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,120
So for example, if we take the 
guy I was talking about, Greg 

428
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,960
Clog earlier, the NFL player, 
like so he first did like, yeah,

429
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,760
five sets, 103 reps or something
like that. 

430
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,960
Then he came in three days 
later, did 130, some 35 or 

431
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,960
whatever it was in the same and 
he did four more sets. 

432
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,520
So a total work increase by 
almost 100% with, with, with all

433
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,400
of it. 
And as many would say in that 

434
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,920
situation, he was like, I'm 
going to be sore tomorrow. 

435
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,320
Didn't feel nothing almost. 
Interesting. 

436
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,640
And and I have felt this myself,
like, I mean, I always attested 

437
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,480
it. 
Like I never get sore. 

438
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,920
Like it doesn't really matter 
what I do. 

439
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,520
Like, you know, when you shift 
around you workouts, you go from

440
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,560
one Rep brains to another one, 
you do those things. 

441
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,720
And I always used to be sore if 
as soon as I made one of those 

442
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,720
changes and it was kind of like,
yeah, this just happens. 

443
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,520
But these days, like it doesn't 
matter what I do, I just don't 

444
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,000
get sore. 
And and as I said, like 

445
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,960
mechanism of why that is the 
case isn't known. 

446
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,960
They are trying to establish 
that. 

447
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,760
But anecdotally it it just, it 
makes a huge impact on your 

448
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,520
recovery in that sense. 
I would imagine there's some 

449
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,000
correlation between the, the 
muscle heating up and you know, 

450
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,520
11 individual reaching their, 
their, their lactate threshold 

451
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,400
and then increased circulating 
lactate is going to be a pretty 

452
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,600
significant driver of muscle 
soreness the following day. 

453
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,760
So if that is correlated with 
the the muscle heating and 

454
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,520
that's reduced significantly, 
that would make sense to me. 

455
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,200
Yeah. 
No, logically that would 

456
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,360
actually make a lot of sense as 
well. 

457
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,320
When you when you, when you put 
it that way, interesting. 

458
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,600
I am. 
Sorry, no, go ahead. 

459
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,080
Yeah, I I am in contact a little
bit the emailing with Greg 

460
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,680
Heller, the guy who came up with
this to get a follow a bit 

461
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,240
before they're released up and 
then but so far they hadn't 

462
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,560
haven't really fully established
but it, but what you're saying 

463
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,200
there is actually makes a lot of
sense. 

464
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,880
So that could could definitely 
be the reason. 

465
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,680
So how would this translate for 
someone that's doing like an 

466
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,560
endurance sport, like running an
ultra marathon, for instance? 

467
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Because that would be an 
instance in which very high 

468
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,920
repetition, very high volume, 
that would have a a heating 

469
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,080
effect on the muscles for sure. 
How would somebody apply this in

470
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,400
that setting? 
So from actually at the moment 

471
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,960
there isn't a lot of like so 
because the guys who came up 

472
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,280
with this and done muscles 
studies of using a glove, there 

473
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,960
isn't a lot of like endurance 
studies done on it. 

474
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,040
They have done one on treadmill 
where people could walk I think 

475
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,560
25% longer when they were 
cooling the palms of their hands

476
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,080
before they kind of cut out. 
And when you cool down, when you

477
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,000
use palm cooling and cool down 
your body, your heart rate goes 

478
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,640
down, which is obviously very 
beneficial if someone does any 

479
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,800
kind of endurance event. 
I also, I actually had a, so I'm

480
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,000
not a runner myself. 
I'm, I like to lift weights and 

481
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,840
that's kind of what I do. 
But I had, I shared a, one of 

482
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,440
our bars with a guy at the gym 
who is more of a runner and he 

483
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,680
ran on a treadmill with it. 
Just first started running, got 

484
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,160
his heart rate up to 175. 
Then he put his hand on it, 

485
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,680
maintained the same pace and his
heart rate dropped to 155 with 

486
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,480
the same pace he took. 
He took his hand off it and his 

487
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,640
heart rate slowly went up again.
Put his hand on it again, heart 

488
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,120
rate dropped to 155. 
And he did that a couple of 

489
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,560
times. 
And then at the end of the 

490
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,280
workout when he was cooling 
down, his heart rate normally 

491
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,880
drops about 20 beats per 30 
seconds. 

492
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,720
While holding it, he dropped 40 
beats per 30 seconds. 

493
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,800
That's a pretty significant 
decrease for sure. 

494
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,680
Yeah, I, I, I mean that that is 
very significant. 

495
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:09,160
So my analysis of what happens 
is that one of the main reasons 

496
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,760
why we need to pump so much 
blood through us is to make sure

497
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,800
we don't overheat, because 
that's how the body cools down 

498
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,720
the muscles. 
That's one of the functions 

499
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,120
obviously transport oxygen and 
and a number of other things. 

500
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,200
But one of the core things in 
this is that it needs to cool 

501
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,200
down the muscles, but because 
the blood then gets cooler, it 

502
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,000
doesn't need to pump as much to 
cool down the muscles. 

503
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,640
So you can go for longer or just
keep on pushing. 

504
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,240
Run faster with the same heart 
rate when you're cooler. 

505
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Do do you see this making like 
in in the setting of weight 

506
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,880
training? 
Obviously this makes a lot more 

507
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920
sense if you're doing higher Rep
repetition sets, but if you are 

508
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:02,640
doing like a single Rep set, is 
there going to be as noticeable 

509
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,280
use case scenario there or is it
pretty much just in the high Rep

510
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,880
sets? 
So I, I think it will, it will 

511
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,400
obviously like when you look at 
it from a percentage perspective

512
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,240
and, and just because you cool 
your pumps, you don't 

513
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,480
necessarily go get stronger. 
But what you can do is that you 

514
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,080
can do more repetitions with the
same weight and that will 

515
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,320
obviously lead to conditioning 
affected the long run. 

516
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,400
And then you from that 
perspective, if you are like a 

517
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,400
powerlifter, they do 1-2. 
There will still be benefit of 

518
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:42,240
this first of all, from a 
recovery perspective, you will 

519
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,720
be able to train like more 
frequently and so forth. 

520
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,400
But also what one of the things 
that powerlifters do is that 

521
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,720
they go and do 1-2 and then they
wait until their heart rate 

522
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,240
going down etcetera. 
And as we were talking about 

523
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,920
just now, it speeds up your 
stabilizing your heart rate. 

524
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,320
So it will have benefits from 
those perspective you can, you 

525
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,880
can go on quicker again after 
and you will have a improved 

526
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,040
recovery. 
Gotcha. 

527
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,640
That makes a lot of sense. 
Yeah, so they wouldn't have to 

528
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,400
spend, you know, 10 minutes 
between sets like a lot of 

529
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,520
proletar do. 
Exactly, they might spend 7 

530
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,880
minutes and in the end of the 
day like that makes a pretty 

531
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,480
decent difference in how much 
workout you can put through. 

532
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,960
Yeah, totally. 
They certainly wouldn't be 

533
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,840
taking up the gym equipment here
as long as they do. 

534
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,960
Exactly, and everybody would be 
happy. 

535
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Yeah. 
Now this is super interesting. 

536
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:49,120
How does, out of curiosity, how 
does this play into consumption 

537
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,920
of cold fluids intra workout? 
Like has there been any research

538
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,680
around that? 
Like should if someone is 

539
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,480
training, should they consume 
colder liquids to have a similar

540
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,400
effect or is there an effect 
there whatsoever? 

541
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:07,000
Yes. 
So there hasn't been studies on 

542
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,360
on that specifically. 
So the if you think about it 

543
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,880
from the perspective that like 
your body overheating or heating

544
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,400
up is one of the most limiting 
factor that you have for your 

545
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,360
physical performance. 
So drinking cooler drinks to 

546
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,800
keep your body temperature lower
has a benefit impact or a 

547
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,080
positive impact, especially 
throughout your workout. 

548
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,679
It will most likely unless you 
drink a lot of cold water, it is

549
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:46,120
not going to have as immediate 
impact because just because of 

550
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,520
how the the blood from the palms
goes straight to the heart and 

551
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,239
then out to the working muscle. 
Whereas the drinking cool water 

552
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,400
kind of cools you down from the 
inside and it doesn't go 

553
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,080
straight to the muscle. 
Does that kind of make sense 

554
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:08,760
that it has a cooling impact on 
your body but it doesn't has an 

555
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,960
acute has an acute impact on the
working muscle from a gym 

556
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,960
perspective? 
So much more of a delayed 

557
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,120
response time basically. 
Yeah. 

558
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,200
So like if you think about it, 
you do an hour gym session, if 

559
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,120
you drink very cold water, it's 
going to mean that you are not 

560
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,040
as warm at the end of that 
workout as you were would have 

561
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:34,080
been otherwise, which then has a
like you will feel less fatigued

562
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,280
and you will have more power in 
your muscles because they will 

563
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,520
be further away from from 
overheating. 

564
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,000
Gotcha. 
That makes total sense. 

565
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,560
So how would you recommend so 
someone listening to this and 

566
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,160
they want to like just put this 
to a test. 

567
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,720
What's a very practical, 
actionable way that someone 

568
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,960
could, you know, measure this 
like like a push ups or, you 

569
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,800
know, pull up something that 
pretty much anybody can have 

570
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,360
access to? 
What would be a way to structure

571
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,840
that to be able to see a pretty 
tangible difference in the 

572
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,240
shortest amount of time 
possible? 

573
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:18,800
So actually to see the biggest 
impact, then you use fairly like

574
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,360
short rest periods. 
So if you like go maybe 

575
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,360
two-minute rest periods and try 
to cool the palms of your hands 

576
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,760
for 90 seconds of that and chunk
a bit higher reps is where 

577
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,040
you're going to see the bigger 
benefit. 

578
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,640
If you wanted like like I kind 
of did when I first tried it 

579
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,520
out, Yeah, higher reps will be 
and slightly shorter rest 

580
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,360
periods. 
The the more your body heat up, 

581
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,800
the more impact you will see on 
this. 

582
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Gotcha, so someone could do like
one number of push ups to Max, 

583
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,520
set of push ups to failure, and 
then wait you know, three or 

584
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,640
four days till they're fully 
recovered and then try and cool 

585
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,880
their palms and do the exact 
same thing to see how many more 

586
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,000
repetitions they would get. 
Yeah, exactly that that that 

587
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,880
would be and and that's kind of 
what I did, but with with my 

588
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,080
hands in in water. 
And just very like, like 

589
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,160
anything, if you want to really 
see a difference, you have to 

590
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,360
track very dill into what you're
doing. 

591
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Like this will actually be a 
thing that you sometimes if you 

592
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,760
really think about it, you will 
feel less fatigued as well. 

593
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,320
But obviously if you want to 
really see a difference, like I 

594
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,040
mean, if anybody want to see a 
difference of taking creatine, 

595
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,160
you have to really track your 
lifts. 

596
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,400
Like otherwise you're not going 
to just like it's not like 

597
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,440
you're going to walk into the 
gym and suddenly be Arnold just 

598
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,640
because you're taking a bit of 
creatine. 

599
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,400
Yeah. 
No, that's a, that's a good 

600
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:43,520
point. 
Totally. 

601
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,000
A bit of a tangent, but with 
creatine, have you noticed any 

602
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,720
significant change over a long 
enough period of time with 

603
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:59,080
creatine? 
I I don't, I'm too scientific to

604
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,960
say that because there has been,
when I have been on and off 

605
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,680
creatine and stuff like that, 
there's been too many other 

606
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,640
things I would say in my life. 
Yeah. 

607
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,160
Like just like I've been out 
drinking and things like that, 

608
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:17,920
that has had an impact. 
That's that's probably negating 

609
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,960
any kind of thing that has to do
with creating or from my own 

610
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,440
personal perspective, like too 
much of a recreational on that, 

611
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,600
which is why I find this so 
interesting because I could 

612
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,600
really, really, I guess I did it
more scientifically than I ever 

613
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,520
done because I was like, you 
know what, I'm going to try to 

614
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,960
really repeat what they did in 
these studies as much as 

615
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:44,800
possible. 
So, so this has given me more 

616
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,120
significantly more than any 
great engine or anything like 

617
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,280
that that's ever, you know, 
shown for me. 

618
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,080
Yeah. 
No, I'm, I'm super intrigued by 

619
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,640
this because it would not really
be, I mean the barrier to entry 

620
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,680
is relatively, you know, 
negligible. 

621
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,240
I mean, you would just simply 
cool your palms between sets and

622
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:04,880
if you're taking a rest set 
anyways like that, that is not 

623
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,600
really taking up any more time. 
I often times superset my lifts 

624
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,280
so I don't really have time. 
But on my primary compound 

625
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,000
movements, I do not superset 
those. 

626
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,640
So I can easily cool my palms 
during that rest period. 

627
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,240
And I've been tracking 
everything pretty diligently, 

628
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,280
especially on those primary 
movements for the past, you 

629
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,480
know, six months or so. 
So I'd be able to have a pretty,

630
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,480
pretty accurate feedback to see 
any tangible difference between 

631
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,280
the palm cooling versus not. 
So this is this has got me 

632
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,880
intrigued. 
Yeah. 

633
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,840
What I find super interesting 
about this, and this is going to

634
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,000
go a little bit on a tangent 
here, but is that if you think 

635
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,840
about it, I think so. 
Like I'm a huge advocate for 

636
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,040
this, as you hear. 
And I'm like, but I think this 

637
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,680
is going to completely 
revolutionize so much in the 

638
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,120
exercise industry because if you
think about it, all studies that

639
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,160
have been done on how much 
muscle, how much strength you 

640
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,520
gain is without palm cooling. 
And that means that every time 

641
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,600
someone does one set, the second
set they will be overheated. 

642
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,040
Third set, they will be 
overheated unless they wait. 

643
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,320
Do it like strength lifters and 
wait 5-6 minutes. 

644
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,480
Everybody's overheated after the
first set. 

645
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,200
So if we remove that, it can 
throw everything we know about 

646
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,680
exercise Physiology out because 
every single. 

647
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,800
Test subject in most subject in 
most of these studies have 

648
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,400
actually overheated after the 
first set. 

649
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,080
Yeah, now it makes sense. 
And I, I, I prefer lifting 

650
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,080
relatively quickly. 
Like I, I don't like taking 

651
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,400
extremely long rest sets. 
Like my, my rest sets pretty 

652
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,240
much the length of time it takes
me to get a drink of water. 

653
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,720
So in that setting, it's very 
likely that my muscles are 

654
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:53,720
pretty on the, on the spectrum 
of being overheated upon going 

655
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,280
into that next set. 
So if I can mitigate that and 

656
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,640
see a tangible increase in, you 
know, not even necessarily the 

657
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,600
reps that I'm performing, 
because I'll, I'll typically 

658
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,080
increase the weight with each 
set. 

659
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,640
But if I'm able to increase the 
weight and then get the same 

660
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,040
number of reps without hitting 
failure, that's going to result 

661
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,440
in some pretty tangible 
improvements. 

662
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,400
Yeah, exactly. 
And, and I mean like, I'll be 

663
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,080
honest with you. 
Like I'm, I'm 43 now and I'm 

664
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,160
hitting PBS. 
I, I've almost spent 20 years in

665
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:27,240
the gym like, and I'm in where I
don't have niggles because I'm 

666
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,800
43. 
Like I'm stronger than I ever 

667
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,240
been because of this. 
And you practice what you 

668
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,640
preach. 
I'm assuming you're, you're 

669
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,240
always bringing the bar to the 
gym and you're always using it. 

670
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,280
It's just kind of is your your 
daily protocol now, right? 

671
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,920
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. 
Every time, like I, yeah, for, 

672
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:52,880
for me, knowing what I what I 
know and what I have seen from 

673
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,760
my own tests and everything, 
it's a bit like, it's a bit like

674
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,120
trying to go to the gym without 
sleeping. 

675
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,480
No one would do that. 
And so so why would I go to the 

676
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,080
gym without my bar? 
It's like I take it on holiday. 

677
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,080
I take it everywhere, like it's 
just for me. 

678
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,600
Yeah. 
You 100% practice what I've 

679
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,000
reached on that one. 
And how long? 

680
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,720
I mean, I know you said that 
you, you know, you don't need to

681
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,480
wait any significant length of 
time between, you know, letting 

682
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,760
go of the bar and then grabbing 
the barbell. 

683
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,600
But, and everyone's getting a 
little bit different, you know, 

684
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,640
length of time between sets. 
But when you're training, how 

685
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,040
long do you typically try and 
grip your cold bar between sets?

686
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,200
I, I try to cool as much as 
possible simply because like 

687
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,480
with the logic knowledge that 
the more I heat up, the quicker 

688
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:46,960
my energy production, my ATP 
production and the muscle goes 

689
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,600
shuts off. 
Well, so the more I cool, the 

690
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,120
better it's going to become. 
So, but then obviously, like I'm

691
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,000
also, as I said, like I'm 
practical. 

692
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,920
Like I don't set my entire 
workout out. 

693
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,760
Like it's just that, you know, 
unless I'm doing something, 

694
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,720
changing weights or something, I
hold the bar. 

695
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,560
That's what I do. 
And OK, I go from one machine to

696
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,120
another, one station to another.
Obviously I can only to carry my

697
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,480
little stuff with me, but I have
the bar in the other hand. 

698
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,320
Yeah. 
That's what I do like, but I 

699
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:31,640
also don't, you know, overdo it 
because I, I wanted to be 

700
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,720
practical and I don't want to be
in the gym for two hours. 

701
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:35,400
It's just too cool. 
Cool, cool. 

702
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,160
Right. 
Well, if nothing else, it would 

703
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,160
absolutely get people off of 
their cell phones between sets, 

704
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,880
and that would be a huge win. 
100 percent, 100%. 

705
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,200
I'm one of those guys who still 
like I have, I have the probably

706
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,560
12 years by now of written hand.
Like I take all my lips in a 

707
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,040
handwritten and stuff. 
No one can read that stuff 

708
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,720
except me. 
But that that's me, so I I'll 

709
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,320
stay off my hand in my cell 
phone as well. 

710
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,640
No, that's good. 
That's good. 

711
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,600
You, you mentioned a good point.
So like, if you are, you know, 

712
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,200
moving weight on the bar or you,
you're grabbing your gym bag, 

713
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,120
walking over to a new piece of 
equipment, you're only holding 

714
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,840
the bar in one hand. 
I'm assuming that would not be 

715
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,880
as optimal as holding it with 
both hands, but you're still 

716
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,800
getting some benefit there. 
Is that like a unilateral thing 

717
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,360
like is only like if you're 
holding it in your left hand, is

718
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,320
your left PEC going to be more 
prepared to do a a bench press 

719
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,360
than your right PEC? 
Or is it pretty much like 

720
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,240
universal to the entire body 
regardless of you know, if you 

721
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,320
have both hands on it or or one?
How does that? 

722
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,760
Work, yeah, it's universal 
because it goes to the heart and

723
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,920
then it goes out from the heart 
and then it kind of distributes 

724
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,440
from there. 
So that would be wouldn't make 

725
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,200
any impact if it's left or right
hand. 

726
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,880
Gotcha. 
And the benefit would just be 

727
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,120
you would cool faster if both 
hands were on it. 

728
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,720
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, then you get basically 

729
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:04,600
double the effect. 
That's what I would say is like,

730
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,440
I, I don't know, maybe you, you 
get, yeah, pretty much double 

731
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,960
the effect. 
Like, but also, you know, what I

732
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,400
do there is that I go from one 
machine to another. 

733
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,600
So then it's going to have less 
of an acute impact in it because

734
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,200
I'm, I'm, I might not even do 
the same muscle group. 

735
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480
And that's the way that like we 
were talking about before. 

736
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,440
What can people really do? 
Well, if you think about this. 

737
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:32,080
So I've restructured my workouts
completely. 

738
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,680
I don't do three chest exercises
right after each other. 

739
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,920
I do a chest and something else,
let's say back because that 

740
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,040
gives my pecs a bit more time to
cool down than if I do 3 pecs in

741
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,240
a row. 
Yeah, and that makes sense. 

742
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:54,440
And and also like if you do 
legs, like what I do is that I 

743
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:59,640
do like squats, then I do 
triceps in between. 

744
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:03,640
So I do squats and then I do 
like tricep pull downs or 

745
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:08,080
something like that because I 
heat up so much when I do any 

746
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,160
leg exercise. 
So do putting in like a bit of a

747
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,640
small upper body in between 
gives me more opportunity to 

748
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,440
cool down and then I can hit leg
press significantly harder than 

749
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,680
if I go straight from the from 
squats to leg press. 

750
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,600
Yeah, no, that makes total 
sense. 

751
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,640
I'm typically doing like a full 
body routine at the moment, so 

752
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,680
I'm only doing one exercise per 
body part per training session. 

753
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,400
So I'm not ever doing multiple 
exercises for, you know, legs 

754
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,840
back-to-back to back. 
So, so that would that would, 

755
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,880
you know, translate pretty well 
there. 

756
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,400
If you're doing something like a
like a quad extension, in which 

757
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,080
case your hands are more or 
less, you know, free, would it 

758
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,520
make sense to grip the bar with 
your hands while you're doing a 

759
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,320
quad extension, or is that not 
necessary? 

760
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,280
I like it. 
It could, I mean, logically if 

761
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,280
you do a chord extension, it 
could make an impact. 

762
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,160
I guess I'm strong enough so I 
need to hold myself down when I 

763
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,640
do a chord extension. 
So like, like in anything, make 

764
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,280
sure that you do the exercise to
the full extent and then try to 

765
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,360
fiddle with the other things. 
But it could have a positive 

766
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,880
impact if you hold the bar while
you're doing squad extensions, 

767
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,160
yes. 
Gotcha. 

768
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,120
Interesting. 
Interesting. 

769
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,720
But there is no studies or 
anything like in that the area 

770
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,360
that that's just putting logic 
to the thing. 

771
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,160
So like we've heard since we 
were kids, you know, you, you 

772
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,600
lose a lot of heat through your 
hands, your feet and your, and 

773
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,640
your head. 
That's why like when you're, you

774
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,040
know, the young kid, you got to 
wear gloves, boots and A and a, 

775
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,720
you know, hat. 
Is it more so the face then? 

776
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,080
Not so much the top of the head 
anywhere there's no hair 

777
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,360
follicles. 
Yes, exactly. 

778
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,720
That is the area. 
So from the beard line and then 

779
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,200
females have, even though 
they're not beard, they have the

780
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,720
same kind of beard line and up 
to the, yeah, obviously we have 

781
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:12,800
our eyebrows etcetera. 
But the rest of that area is 

782
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,880
where we have glabrous skin. 
So it wouldn't make sense to try

783
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,840
and wear like a a a hat with ice
packs in it because that would 

784
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,160
still be over top of your hair 
and it wouldn't really be 

785
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,240
practical to cover your face at 
all times with cold packs. 

786
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,240
Like the hands is pretty much 
the most user friendly, 

787
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:33,320
practical way to go about it. 
Yeah, 100% that. 

788
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,320
And and that's why we kind of 
like, that's what we we call it 

789
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,960
pond cooling. 
You could cool any of the other 

790
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,800
of these, but yeah, it becomes 
significantly more practical in 

791
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,080
in most settings. 
I'm trying to think where I had 

792
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,240
heard about it and originally 
and I I think it may have been 

793
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:52,320
that same Huberman podcast. 
Do you remember when that was 

794
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:58,240
released? 
That is just 2021. 

795
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:03,520
I think somewhere he did two. 
I listened to it. 

796
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,800
I think somewhere in the summer,
autumn 2021, I think the first 

797
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,720
one and then the other one a 
couple of months later. 

798
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,680
Interesting. 
And you just took that and ran 

799
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,760
with it, huh? 
I, I, I, I literally did like, 

800
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,880
I, I'm interested in silence and
stuff like that. 

801
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,840
And as I said, like I like to 
improve performance, but I'm not

802
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,400
going to jump through 10 hoops 
to get the 5% increase. 

803
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,520
But when someone says like, 
yeah, you can increase, you pull

804
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,400
up 144% in six weeks. 
And I, that gets me listening. 

805
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,280
And when you hear an NFL player 
increasing his dips by 201 

806
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:43,440
percent, which was of the five 
weeks, I that also makes me 

807
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,760
well, this is this is not like 
the normal stuff you hear about.

808
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,240
And, and I, I, I couldn't really
help myself. 

809
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:56,520
I just had to test that one. 
The guys, the PTS in in my gym, 

810
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,280
they just laughed at me when I 
sat there with my big bucket 

811
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,440
with water and ice in it, the 
road, etcetera do. 

812
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,120
You get a lot of questions in 
the gym with the with the cold 

813
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,400
bar, people asking you what it 
is. 

814
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,200
The the bar I I've had a few 
questions here and there, but 

815
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,200
not nearly as many questions as 
when I was sitting with a bit 

816
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,080
big ice back or water bucket. 
I got more questions then. 

817
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,600
Well, I mean the the bar, I've 
seen a picture of it, it looks 

818
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,200
pretty sleek. 
I mean, it looks like you're 

819
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,360
almost holding a water bottle. 
Yeah. 

820
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:27,920
And that's the thing, like for 
me when I when I developed this,

821
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,360
it was like it needs to be nice,
easy and practical. 

822
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,760
Like this is as easy as holding 
a water bottle. 

823
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:39,120
Like you don't. 
Yeah, it it's and it can very 

824
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,000
easily be used between sets 
etcetera. 

825
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,040
Like it's not a hindrance in in 
your workouts. 

826
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,520
And what what's, what's the 
material of the bar itself? 

827
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Is it like a titanium or like a 
aluminum or something like that?

828
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,080
Aluminum. 
Gotcha. 

829
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,120
Aluminum, yeah, that has one of 
the highest heat transfer 

830
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:04,160
abilities. 
I started engineering as at uni,

831
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,360
so had geeked down a bit into 
the thermodynamics of of those 

832
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,320
things and making sure that we 
have the kind of the right so we

833
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,560
can maintain the temperature and
tested a lot of things around 

834
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,360
that as well so. 
It's not gonna be very heavy 

835
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,800
then either. 
Obviously it's illuminated 

836
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,960
pretty light and then the water 
in there is not gonna weigh that

837
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,000
much either. 
Yeah, no, it I, I think fully, 

838
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,040
fully loaded, so to speak, it's 
like 6-7 hundred grams or 

839
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,720
something like that, but it 
doesn't weigh much at all. 

840
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,520
Nice well, I'm, I'm curious man,
I'm I'm definitely going to have

841
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,760
to put this to the test. 
Like like I said, I'm always 

842
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,240
super skeptical, but I've got 
the the metrics that I can 

843
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:39,480
easily, you know, measure 
against. 

844
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,040
So I'll be able to know pretty 
pretty realistically and 

845
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,720
definitively if it's working or 
not. 

846
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,200
So I'm. 
Happy to send you a board map, 

847
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:50,120
you can try it out and 
interesting to see what you 

848
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,120
think. 
Yeah, no, I'm super curious 

849
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,200
because I'm in the building 
phase right now, so I'm trying 

850
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,440
to just, you know, take whatever
advantage I can to improve all 

851
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,560
of my lifting metrics. 
So if I can simply hold a bar to

852
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,400
improve, you know, thermal 
regulation of my muscle tissue 

853
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,720
and cool down between sets to 
increase overall peak 

854
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:08,680
performance, that makes total 
sense to me. 

855
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,200
Yeah, I'll send you one 
afterwards. 

856
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,200
Sure. 
Awesome, awesome. 

857
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,360
Well, what else you got Cookie 
man, are you? 

858
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,800
When did the business launch? 
I guess if you'd just heard that

859
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,080
podcast in 21, this is a 
relatively new business. 

860
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,040
Yeah. 
So we, we just launched, 

861
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,400
launched the peak performance 
bar like 1-2 months ago or 

862
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,360
something like that. 
And as I said, like I've been 

863
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:35,280
interested in the cold space. 
So we do have a, another product

864
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,880
for more weight loss, which I 
call the calorie burner vest, 

865
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,720
which is simply a vest you put 
over your shoulders and it cools

866
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,600
down your body and you burn 
calories. 

867
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:53,240
I've tested it with in a lab and
I increased my calorie burn by 

868
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:57,160
two 100% without moving. 
I still have my laptop in my 

869
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:58,920
lap. 
You can you can watch Netflix 

870
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,680
and become a colorary Burning 
Machine I. 

871
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,600
Don't know if that's a good 
thing or bad thing though. 

872
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,160
So many people need to just 
embrace working out more. 

873
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,760
But that I ain't going to argue 
without saying at all. 

874
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,200
Then again you have the benefit 
of like because it becomes less 

875
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,440
of AI Guess for me as I'm I'm 
not a big fan of cardio. 

876
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,720
So like having a way to burn 
calories that is not cardio? 

877
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,040
I see it pretty positive but yes
IA 100% agree with you. 

878
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,360
A lot of people should not have 
that kind of thing. 

879
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,920
They should just go out and move
rather than anything. 

880
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,720
Else so. 
So what does that look like like

881
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:39,000
for you? 
For instance, what do you have 

882
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,160
any idea what your maintenance 
caloric intake is roughly? 

883
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,600
Actually, I have never tested 
that in that sense. 

884
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,840
We just did a test with with 
this one specifically to kind of

885
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:58,520
see like what like I sat down 
and they measured my gallery 

886
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,960
burn at that point in time and 
then I took on the West and 

887
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,720
thought it like pushing the 
intensity with that one. 

888
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,520
So I actually don't know exactly
my gallery burn in that sense 

889
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,600
unfortunately. 
And it increased expenditure by 

890
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:20,080
what percentage? 
202. 100% over baseline. 

891
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,440
Yeah, over baseline. 
Yeah, that's pretty significant.

892
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,600
I mean, my, my maintenance 
intake is roughly 3000 calories.

893
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,680
So 200% would be 6000 calories. 
So if I'm burning 6000 calories 

894
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,680
with the vest on, it's that's 
pretty pretty insane. 

895
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,440
Obviously, you need to think 
about it like you would only do 

896
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,280
that well, while you're wearing 
the vest and kind of in that 

897
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,480
state, you wouldn't, that 
wouldn't extend through the 

898
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,920
entire day. 
It would be during the, you 

899
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:49,440
know, time when you're wearing 
it. 

900
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,280
So, but still it would, you 
know, increase your need 

901
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,600
significantly, which could be of
huge benefit. 

902
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,800
And you do have because you cool
down your body as well. 

903
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,600
You do have an increase in brown
fat and all the benefits that 

904
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,200
comes with that. 
And then you don't have the same

905
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,680
food benefits as doing a cold 
plunge and with dopamine 

906
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:16,080
increases and all these type of 
things. 

907
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:22,840
But you do have the conditional 
impact on that makes sense from 

908
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,200
a brown fat perspective. 
Yeah, I guess the 3000 was a was

909
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,840
a bad representation because 
that's total caloric intake for 

910
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,360
the day and. 
Maintenance, I guess someone. 

911
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,840
'S burning, you know, like 
treadmill and they're burning 

912
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,760
150 calories. 
If they could burn 300 calories 

913
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:41,240
via the same amount of time by 
wearing the vest, that would be 

914
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,200
a better use case. 
Scenario example for sure. 

915
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,360
Yeah, exactly. 
Because well, as you're saying, 

916
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,280
like if someone just walks on a 
treadmill or something like 

917
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,240
that, but don't do any intense 
cardio, the calorie burn isn't 

918
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,680
that huge from a pure calorie 
perspective. 

919
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:03,560
And this could lead to fairly 
similar without or. 

920
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,520
And I mean like I use this one 
when I'm at work sitting and 

921
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,200
sitting in front of my laptop 
and doing work, etcetera. 

922
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,640
I've even had it on conference 
calls just but I like I have a 

923
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,320
hoodie over it so no one sees 
it. 

924
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,760
Have you noticed that you are 
hungrier if all things else? 

925
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,400
If all else is equal and you 
wear the vest, you burn more 

926
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:24,960
calories. 
Do you notice that your hunger 

927
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,720
increases as a result of that 
additional expenditure? 

928
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,680
Not hugely. 
It obviously depends a little 

929
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:36,240
bit on how much I'm pushing it 
like, but it's not like just 

930
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:39,920
because I use it for like an 
hour or two that I then feel 

931
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,960
significantly hungrier. 
So it doesn't seem to have 

932
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,040
exactly the same. 
Like if you would go and do a 

933
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:51,080
jog for or burn 500 calories, 
your body has a tendency to tell

934
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,560
you that you're hungry and you 
you eat the same amount unless 

935
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,560
you really control that. 
It doesn't seem to have really 

936
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:05,800
that impact, but not tested that
it to huge extent. 

937
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,600
But that was my kind of my own 
anecdotal way. 

938
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,480
Oh, interesting, interesting. 
This is, this is super 

939
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:14,960
fascinating. 
I definitely want to try the bar

940
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,720
out because like I said, I'd be 
able to test that relatively 

941
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,240
scientifically given the data 
that I've collected thus far. 

942
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,560
So yeah, I'm, I'm super 
intrigued by that. 

943
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,280
Well, awesome, man. 
Where do people go to find out 

944
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,360
more about you, to learn more, 
to dive into the studies, to 

945
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,920
learn about the bar and just 
kind of dive deeper into your 

946
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,480
world? 
Yeah. 

947
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:39,400
So if if you wanna like hit me 
up or we can, you can either 

948
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:44,320
e-mail us via our website, 
whichisprimescience.co.uk or 

949
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,240
Google prime Science or you can 
find me on Instagram. 

950
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,080
Either Prime Science help, which
the company went on or he may 

951
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,120
harm on fitness. 
If you want to talk about palm 

952
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,160
cooling, I am all for it. 
I'm can talk to that until the 

953
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,160
cows come home and super 
interested in sharing this 

954
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,360
because I honestly think this is
going to revolutionize the 

955
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,000
exercise industry. 
I think that in 10 years time 

956
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,720
we're going to look at body 
temperature as an as important 

957
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,640
component to performance as we 
do sleep today. 

958
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,280
Well, that, that's the thing 
that that's, that's a good 

959
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,640
bridge to, to, to cross right 
there. 

960
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,000
Because like I said, I'm super 
sceptical about all things. 

961
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,800
And if it sounds too good to be 
true, it normally isn't true. 

962
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,560
But when I've learned what I've 
learned about Thermo regulation 

963
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:37,920
as it pertains to sleep quality,
like that has opened my eyes to 

964
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,280
Thermo regulation in general. 
So Thermo regulation as it 

965
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,040
pertains to exercise 
performance, like that's not too

966
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,520
big a bridge to gap to me 
anymore. 

967
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:48,600
No. 
And, and, and, and when you 

968
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,280
understand the like, like if you
think about what we're talking 

969
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:56,360
about earlier, it's like, Simply
put, there is an enzyme in every

970
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,240
single muscle that controls the 
ATP production. 

971
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,640
When the heat goes up, the ATP 
production goes down. 

972
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:11,080
Then when you think about that, 
you're like, well, that will be 

973
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:16,120
a huge limiting factor. 
Totally, totally. 

974
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,000
Well, I'm super intrigued. 
I will definitely, definitely 

975
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,840
put this to the test and I will 
let you know what I what I 

976
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,120
learned in in doing so. 
But yeah, if you if you're able 

977
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,880
to increase my my markers by 20.
30 or 50? 

978
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Percent, that'd be. 
Awesome, the ATP production is 

979
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,320
just shut off because of 
overheating. 

980
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,760
Yeah, no, this, this is cool. 
This is cool. 

981
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,760
I'm excited, very excited. 
Well, Timmy, I'm, I'm gonna link

982
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,640
out to everybody, make it easy 
for people to find you. 

983
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,040
And I will definitely keep you 
posted on what I learned in my 

984
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,560
own self experimentation. 
But I really appreciate you 

985
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,240
taking the time to to enlighten 
me man. 

986
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,480
I I had no clue that we'd be 
able to fill an hour's time 

987
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,720
talking about palm cooling, but 
I feel like we only scratched 

988
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,880
the surface. 
Yeah, no, definitely I it's been

989
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:03,520
a very interesting conversation.
Really happy that you had me on 

990
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,320
my hair, Robert. 
My pleasure, my pleasure. 

991
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,840
We'll, we'll, we'll have to do a
follow up two round two after I 

992
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,960
put this to the test for sure. 
Oh yeah, I'm very, very 

993
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,920
interested in doing that well. 
Thank you very much Sir, and 

994
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,000
until then man, you have a good 
one and take care. 

995
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:19,720
You too. 
Cheers. 

996
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:20,720
Thank you. 
Cheers.