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What is going on y'all? 
Robert Sykes keto Savage.com? 

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And today I've got special guest
Jordin Carmen on the podcast. 

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Jordan is The Man Behind modular
orange Matchstick Studio. 

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He is the brains behind my 
website, keto, Savage.com, live 

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savage.com, ketogenic 
bodybuilding.com. 

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He's built that my website and 
many of my friends websites, and

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we just wanted to have a good 
conversation about business 

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entrepreneurship and where the 
web is going. 

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So, without further do is sit 
back, relax. 

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Enjoy the conversation with my 
good friend and web man, Jordan 

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Carmen. 
And we are live. 

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Jordan how are you brother? 
Good. 

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How are you doing? 
I'm good, man, I'm good, you 

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were here. 
What was it like a month or two 

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ago? 
We were talking shop and we 

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talked for like an hour and a 
half solved. 

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All the world's problems when I 
managed to be a podcast. 

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He's so here we are making it a 
podcast. 

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You are my website guy. 
You have got three websites 

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three three now three. 
Now he knows that he's not calm 

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live savage.com which we have 
not had any content to and then 

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Keep doing bodybuilding.com, 
which is the landing page for 

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the book basically. 
But you have been in the web 

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development space, just got you 
some backstory on that man. 

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I want to kind of dive into 
that. 

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Yeah, well my background is in 
computers, computer science 

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started my career at Walmart and
then ventured off on my own. 

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We've been doing web and modular
orange is our product that we 

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market and been doing that. 
Now, for about seven years and 

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are just hoping to do our best 
work and do as many Websites, as

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we can for people in a good way.
So, modular orange is like the, 

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the SAS and Matchstick studio is
like the company ranked, or 

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that. 
Can I have it broken down? 

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Yes. 
So talk to me about my, I guess,

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before we dive into this stuff, 
bringing the listeners that are 

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normally listen to Quito 
nutrition. 

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We might talk about key to a 
little bit, but I kind of want 

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to make this like an 
entrepreneurship business or in 

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a podcast because there's all 
kinds of good stuff. 

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We can dive into there, but as 
it pertains to web development 

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and Modular. 
Orange, as a framework, what 

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kind of sets that apart from all
the competition at the? 

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Why would people not want to 
just jump on WordPress? 

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Yeah, well, don't get me started
on WordPress. 

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Might be here all day, but we 
are what we're trying to do, is 

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just make it simple for people, 
that don't know, really 

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anything. 
And I think a lot of competition

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out there are a lot of agencies 
and other companies that offer 

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web services, they like to 
nickel and And I'm they like to 

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overcomplicate it over explain 
all these things that customers 

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don't know. 
If you're a small business 

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owner, you're trying to start a 
new business or you had a 

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business for 15 years. 
You need to be the expert at 

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your business and let someone 
else handle your utilities. 

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We try to operate module orange 
as a utility, so just like you 

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would pay for phone service for 
your business. 

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Electricity. 
It's 2023 have to have a 

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website. 
We are going to include 

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everything you need and you're 
just not going to have to worry 

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about it. 
So anytime you need support, 

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help whatever, call us and 
we'll, we'll help you out. 

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So, just trying to make it easy 
affordable and not 

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nickel-and-dime people. 
When I launched my business Kito

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Savage, I launched it July 1st 
2016, and I didn't have a web 

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team. 
I was broke. 

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I built a website on On 
WordPress and in hindsight, it 

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would have been well because you
charge me 95 bucks a month. 

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I don't know if I should have 
said that out loud enough. 

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You're gonna like the price. 
Go to the website. 

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It's out there. 
Yeah, so like, in high side, I 

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didn't had 95 bucks a month 
them, but it would have been 

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worth my while to figure how to 
make 95 bucks a month. 

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And because I spent so much time
watching YouTube tutorials, and 

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how to build something out on 
WordPress, specifically, one 

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that I remember spending five 
hours to try and move a red 

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block, like two inches to the 
right and down an inch. 

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And I said, I mean, I think I 
learned my entire, you know, 

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curse word vocabulary during 
that time, but it was not 

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efficient, use of my time 
whatsoever. 

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And you've been really good at 
this whole website and add a 

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thing. 
So, when we build keto Savage, 

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like I built that back in 2016 
and then we built keto Savage 

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out. 
When was that? 

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That was two years ago, maybe 
four years ago? 

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Yeah, but since then, you've 
been to this whole website and 

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add a thing, which is what you 
did for live savage.com and then

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I've had you You you've done 
several websites for my friends 

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but basically you come out here,
you bring a whole team out here.

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You figure out what their color 
palette is, what their branding 

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is what they want to accomplish.
And you build out the entire 

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website within like an 
eight-hour window and then you 

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give them all the tools that 
they need to update. 

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It keep it up to date and then 
that's 95 bucks a month. 

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Like there's no like some 
upfront costs. 

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Like I tell it to people and 
they're like, wait a minute. 

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What? 
Well I have a question about 

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that too because we've been 
hearing that maybe it sounds too

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good to be true. 
True. 

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But the but the thing is with a,
we like to come out here and 

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because you have a great place 
and so it's a little selfish on 

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our part. 
Yeah, I come hang out. 

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You're just slightly too far 
away for me, not to be here 

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every day. 
Well, you haven't come to the 

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gym. 
Yeah. 

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And I know I'm Jim, you did 
bring the the weight belt and 

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the you know, all your gym 
clothes today. 

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Ring. 
Got it. 

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We can do, okay, cool. 
Some local after this nice, huh?

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But so, two things, the speak to
the pricing. 

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First of all, you're right. 
Right. 

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I mean there are tons of DIY 
options out there that if 

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somebody wants to do that they 
can do that. 

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You're going to pay you know, 
somewhere between 20 to 40, 

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maybe 50 bucks a month. 
But then you're on the hook for 

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knowing everything or youtubing 
or trying to figure all that 

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out. 
And if you're especially if 

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you're a service-based business 
or you're trying to produce your

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product, do you have time to 
spend 10, 20, 30 40 hours, 

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figuring out your website? 
The other flip side of that is A

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lot of times our competitors are
going to charge you five ten 

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fifteen thirty thousand dollars 
as a one lump sum to set it up 

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and then charge every time you 
need to change your going to 

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charge you for that. 
So we're trying to meet it in 

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the middle. $95 is our price 
that's basically saying we're 

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more than DIY. 
We're doing it all for you but 

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we're going to build and include
everything that you absolutely 

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need. 
So that you don't have to worry 

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about. 
Any time you make a change? 

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We're going to yeah you know 
whatever. 

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But I mean I don't remember what
I was paying monthly for 

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WordPress but with all the 
plugins and upgrades and bells 

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and whistles that I was building
out, I don't think it was any 

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less than that and it was just a
massive headache, you know, did 

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you ever run into issues with 
like updating? 

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Oh, I was the worst man. 
Like I would, I wouldn't see 

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you. 
Again, it breaks the whole 

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thing. 
Yeah, I didn't start plugging 

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the whole thing with crash or it
would say, like I need to 

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record, it are doing update, and
then I would do an update, then 

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it would like, like the spinning
wheel of Death thing, it would 

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never go through. 
So I would never know halftime 

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if it is working or not and I 
just didn't have time to be a 

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WordPress expert. 
But I said, I think was probably

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around 95 bucks a month for 
everything and I always have to 

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do everything. 
And I tell people like I'm not, 

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you know, y'all didn't pay me 
saying this stuff and I'm just 

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pretty much talking about your 
website because I like it. 

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But my friend, Chris has built 
his website three on the gym, I 

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go to in Fayetteville they've 
built their website through yum.

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My brother's probably going to 
come up here. 

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And do some work on the building
for me because he's a welder and

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he needs a website because he's 
starting his business. 

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So he's gonna meet with y'all 
and I tell them all. 

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It's 95 bucks a month and then 
yeah. 

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But what's The Upfront? 
Initial cost and get it built. 

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And I'm like, there is nice, 
just 95 bucks a month, you know,

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Dakota, one of my clients built 
this website through yum. 

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So just make sense, I don't feel
like people realize that it's 

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that low barrier to entry. 
And when it comes to web sites, 

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I'd love to get your take on 
this but in business like, for 

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me in my work, In my industry, 
like having a social following, 

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having a brand having a way to 
connect with people is very very

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important. 
I'll talk to people that are not

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really in the business world 
with in this day and age and 

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they'll be like yeah I'm just 
gonna get some business cards 

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and I'll be booming which I can 
I can appreciate the hustle of 

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getting some business cards but 
like a lot of people don't have 

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a website in 2023 which to me 
like that's just asking for 

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trouble. 
Like I mean do you have a lot of

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people? 
I mean I'm obviously people 

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coming to you to build a website
but a lot of these people. 

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People, they already have 
something rather, they just 

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totally bootstrap from the 
ground up. 

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You'd be surprised and I don't 
know the stats offhand but I'm I

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think it's still something like 
30 to 40 percent of businesses 

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in the US don't have any website
at all that's where I'm it. 

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Yeah, especially as Being in 
today's day and age everybody 

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checks the website. 
Yeah even if you've got the best

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physical location on the planet 
somebody Drives By they're going

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to check you out first. 
They're going to do a search, 

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they're going to try to figure 
out who you are before they walk

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into that store. 
So it's about I would say most 

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people that come to us have 
already something established 

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there and maybe it's 10 years 
old but that's the last time 

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they did anything. 
Yeah. 

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But we do occasionally run into 
people that don't have anything 

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startup certain other big 
things. 

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So if somebody's starting a new 
business or starting from 

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scratch and then that's where we
can come in and be that 

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affordable option to say, yes, 
$95, a month and we'll handle 

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everything you concentrate on, 
getting your business cards and 

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starting a business will handle 
everything else. 

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And you do that remotely with 
people to, I mean, I've had the 

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luxury of being able to interact
with you in person every time we

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built a website, but I'm 
assuming you're In that V Zoom 

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or something with people in 
different locations. 

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Yeah. 
Our normal process you mentioned

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the website in a day which is 
kind of new for us. 

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We've been doing that for about 
a year. 

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Our normal process is probably a
three to four week process and 

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the only reason I say that is 
just back and forth that it 

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takes to get the assets that we 
might need from somebody for 

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their business but We go through
design design review will put 

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out, put it up on a test link 
you can see everything that you 

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need to see before it launches 
and then when you're pleased 

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with it we launched it and that 
is like people. 

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It's like a drag-and-drop 
functionality for people that 

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want to update things after it's
built. 

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Like it's pretty simple and 
straightforward for them to 

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tweak things at blog posts Etc 
if they want to. 

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Yeah, so yeah. 
I'd say most of Of our 

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customers. 
They don't think part of the 

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reason they come to us as I 
don't want to mess with it. 

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Yeah. 
They just they want to shoot an 

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email and say hey can you update
this or can you change this or 

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add this person? 
We do that all the time. 

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But we do have the ability part 
of what makes part of what makes

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it. 
So that we can do things as 

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quickly as we can, is in as 
affordably as we can. 

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As are we control the platform? 
So we're not using something 

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like WordPress. 
It's a completely in-house 

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product, it's not open source, 
so it's super secure. 

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And we control that software in 
that environment. 

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So then we can do things super 
quick. 

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Give people access if they want 
the access. 

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00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,200
It's all from the front end. 
So you're familiar with 

227
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,700
WordPress. 
Like you said, it's WordPress 

228
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:44,100
has a back end to it. 
You know, if you need to move 

229
00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:48,200
that red block or whatever it 
is, you're fiddling around with 

230
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,600
this whole back end framework, 
that you're Not seeing what's 

231
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,200
happening on the page, you just 
have to hit the preview button 

232
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,400
or hit publish and then flip 
over to the live site and then 

233
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,700
it didn't move or it's broken or
whatever. 

234
00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:04,900
Flip back, try something else, 
hit save again, you're just 

235
00:12:04,908 --> 00:12:06,000
doing this constant back and 
forth. 

236
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,100
So our system is all front-end 
based you sign in your on the 

237
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,500
website. 
So for those that do want that 

238
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,900
control to be able to go in and 
edit things themselves, you just

239
00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:18,700
edit it from the website side of
things. 

240
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:21,500
So, if you change a piece of 
text updates, it right there, 

241
00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:23,000
you can see. 
See that red block move if 

242
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,500
that's what you're trying to do.
So that's what enables us to do 

243
00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,600
things quickly for people. 
And what I'll do, y'all do 

244
00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:34,200
Beyond just the website 
development itself because I 

245
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,300
think you'll have like because 
I'm udl for the website 

246
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:39,400
development, but you also do 
like full-blown branding 

247
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,300
packages like making logos and 
everything, right? 

248
00:12:41,300 --> 00:12:42,600
That's totally separate that 
right. 

249
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:44,900
Yes. 
So that's not 95 bucks. 

250
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,400
What is not know? 
What does that those are? 

251
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,200
Those are extra options again. 
Those are great for people who 

252
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,900
maybe had a brand out there. 
Or 10 years, they needed 

253
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:55,100
updated. 
They needed refreshed, maybe 

254
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:57,200
they have a start-up, they're 
starting a brand new business, 

255
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,500
they need to get everything 
going. 

256
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,200
So, we offer logo packages, 
branding packages. 

257
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,600
Any design needs that you might 
want some of the packages. 

258
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaking of the business cards, 
you know, we would include that 

259
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,200
in some of the packages that we 
have, but it's a good way to 

260
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,000
either. 
Refresh what you have or get you

261
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,800
something brand-new and if you 
don't have anything, we will 

262
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,100
start from scratch and get you a
brand that you love. 

263
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:24,800
And then tailor that with the 
Well yeah buddy Chris whom I've 

264
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,200
known since high school, use the
auto bill that his forestry 

265
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,900
mulching landscaping business 
and what was his most his 

266
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:33,900
requirements. 
He wanted something look cool. 

267
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:35,600
That's pretty much it pretty 
much. 

268
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,900
He's got a super sick logo. 
We did that pretty quick because

269
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:41,700
I think he kind of added that 
on. 

270
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:43,200
Yeah. 
And he didn't have any idea what

271
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,100
he wanted in the logo, right? 
He just said he wanted like to 

272
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,900
Exeter somebody. 
He was that totally y'all. 

273
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,700
Well, he gave us the name. 
Yeah, it had two x's. 

274
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,800
Senate. 
So that win. 

275
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,800
So, Austin came up with this 
really cool logo, and the color 

276
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,700
palette and everything, and it 
turned out really well. 

277
00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:00,900
Nice, by the way, totally 
tangent here. 

278
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,200
He just got his machine, his big
old skid steer. 

279
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,900
So he's gonna get all kinds of 
pictures, went out the updated 

280
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:09,300
website or something with that. 
So I'm excited for him. 

281
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,800
We make it a shirt, put that put
that logo on it. 

282
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,100
I know man, he's been a. 
We've been putting I went over 

283
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:18,100
to his house two days. 
Putting putting his logo that 

284
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,800
y'all made on freaking 
everything like he's got it 

285
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,900
plastered on his bath. wall and 
stuff you know so good branding 

286
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:28,800
there I guess but you'll do 
things like AB development as 

287
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,900
well which is something that I'm
May dip my toe into we kind of 

288
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,400
talked about this last time 
you're here but I think having 

289
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,400
an app for what I'm doing 
specifically would be an 

290
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,700
efficient way of going about 
things apart from using like a 

291
00:14:40,708 --> 00:14:43,200
Google spreadsheet which is what
I've been doing and you're 

292
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,100
talking about the app structure 
and framework that y'all use is 

293
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,300
totally different than I'm gonna
be sound like I'm not a web 

294
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:52,400
developer here so just you just 
Take Mike. 

295
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,900
Well, so we're towing or it's 
relatively new ish technology. 

296
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:02,000
And I say that to mean the 
technology is kind of existed 

297
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,400
for probably 10 years, but it's 
really picking up steam in the 

298
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,000
last two or three and I'm going 
to do you a prototype just so 

299
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,500
you can see how it works. 
But it's essentially based on 

300
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,700
the web typical. 
If anyone's out there, that's 

301
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,200
had an app done or had an app 
priced. 

302
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,500
We run into that a lot where 
somebody will say. 

303
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,400
I have this idea for an app and 
then they'll go get it quoted 

304
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,800
out and that like, it will come 
back 200 300, 500 thousand 

305
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,800
dollars for this app that they 
have. 

306
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,900
And it's really that can go for 
things that really aren't that 

307
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:41,400
Hardware intensive that you need
all the stuff on your phone for.

308
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,900
So what we've done is adopted 
this newer technology. 

309
00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:48,400
That's essentially it's a 
progressive. 

310
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,700
Web app is what it's called and 
it's all web based. 

311
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,100
Taste. 
So you don't need all of the, 

312
00:15:54,100 --> 00:16:00,000
like, xcode iPhone stuff. 
They're like proprietary code 

313
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,800
base and all that stuff we can 
do it, web-based, and then 

314
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,000
package it up, and send it to 
the app stores. 

315
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,900
And you can do that with pretty 
much everything. 

316
00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:11,500
If you don't need the hardware 
of the phone say for something 

317
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:15,900
like NFC, which is how people 
pay like tap to pay in stores. 

318
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,900
You can't access that piece of 
Hardware with what we use but 

319
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:23,500
that's rare that people. 
I need that most of the time, 

320
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:27,100
it's like an app. 
Like yours were, let's store. 

321
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:30,700
Let's do some calculations store
some data, show some charts. 

322
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:36,500
We can do all of that with 
web-based and it also is all 

323
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:39,500
mobile responsive are almost 
responsive every. 

324
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:43,500
It'll go to the iPhones, the app
store or the Google Play Store, 

325
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,600
and it's accessible from the 
web. 

326
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:51,300
So if you are sitting at your 
computer and don't have your 

327
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:53,200
phone on you, For whatever 
reason, although everybody has 

328
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,200
their phone out how nowadays, 
but you can access it from the 

329
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,700
computer as well, because it's 
all just web-based. 

330
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:04,099
What about like evening with 
Mighty, networks know. 

331
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,599
So, mighty networks. 
It's like a they've done 

332
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,800
something pretty interesting 
basically make this social 

333
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,800
committee. 
So it's kind of like Facebook or

334
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,599
like kajabi for instances, they 
make like courses online. 

335
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,200
Using that framework. 
That have a community aspect, 

336
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,700
But Mighty networks is basically
trying to get same thing. 

337
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,500
And a mobile responsive app, you
know, that that people have used

338
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:28,000
kind of like a social networking
app, but you can also build that

339
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,700
course and stuff. 
But I've never been a fan of my 

340
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:32,500
networks. 
Like it's just clunky it lags 

341
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:36,400
really bad. 
So like with an app like this, 

342
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,400
could you make it like a social 
network as well? 

343
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,200
Or would that be beyond the 
scope of its functionality? 

344
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:48,700
Know you can essentially do 
anything you need to again I'll 

345
00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:52,300
do the only limitations Are the 
hardware. 

346
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,300
Yeah, and it's not even all of 
the hardware. 

347
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:59,700
If you if you need the app to 
access the camera, the web, the 

348
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:02,200
progressive web app can do that 
because that's another thing 

349
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,600
people might use it for or push 
notifications. 

350
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:09,700
Even I think he can even access 
like GPS and all the other 

351
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:12,100
stuff. 
It's just there's a few little 

352
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:13,600
pieces of Hardware that it can't
do. 

353
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:19,000
But anything else the sky's the 
limit, so making it making a 

354
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,100
social network peace. 
To it making, I mean anything 

355
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:27,900
anything you can think of it can
be done and because it's based 

356
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:31,600
on the web and you're not having
to use xcode and all that good 

357
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,000
stuff. 
We can make it super affordable.

358
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:36,600
Yeah. 
It doesn't cost. 

359
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,000
Two hundred thousand the last 
one we did. 

360
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,700
I think they had their company 
had been quoted. 

361
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,300
I think, right around two 
hundred thousand dollars for for

362
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:49,000
their app and we did it in for 
15. 

363
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,300
I think. 
So, What is it just like what's 

364
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:55,100
causing all that markup? 
Is it just all custom coding? 

365
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,900
It's part of it is with the to 
1000 our version. 

366
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:06,100
Yes, part of it is The old model
I suppose or the old technology 

367
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:09,800
or the, when the App Store was 
originally invented back in you 

368
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,600
know, 2008-2009. 
When all that was coming out, 

369
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:21,200
Apple put out their version of 
like their own code base so you 

370
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,800
had to use their tools there. 
I think that's called Swift. 

371
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:31,900
It's like a special version of c
and you had to know how to do 

372
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:32,300
that. 
That. 

373
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:37,600
So, it was really a very small 
amount of people could do that 

374
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,400
and get into it. 
Now, it's gotten better over the

375
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:44,100
years, but there's still, the 
traditional model is to open up.

376
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,000
Xcode use apples code to create 
that one app just for the 

377
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,900
iPhone. 
And then you got to go repeat 

378
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:57,100
that and do do it for Google. 
And Google Play for Android 

379
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:59,400
phones, which is all believe in 
Java. 

380
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,500
So you have to know, you have to
have Different developers with 

381
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:08,900
different skills using 
proprietary software and it just

382
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:13,100
takes takes up a lot of time 
within the App Store does Apple.

383
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:16,000
Like, prioritize the ones that 
are using that excope because 

384
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,700
it's using their framework, as a
totally unbiased know, as of 

385
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:27,800
right now, it's pretty open and 
iPhone probably Apple probably 

386
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,000
doesn't Treat Progressive web 
apps, as far as. 

387
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,700
Installing it or uploading it to
the App Store. 

388
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,700
They probably frown on it a 
little bit, but they don't stop 

389
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:42,800
anything. 
That makes sense. 

390
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,000
It's like they would prefer to 
not have the progressive web 

391
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,000
apps, because they want people 
to stay in their Walled Garden 

392
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:57,000
in their, you know, in their 
code proprietary code base, but 

393
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:59,300
they can't stop it. 
Yeah. 

394
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,900
So maybe you turn away too much.
Customer clientele business, 

395
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:05,800
otherwise everything's headed. 
It towards the progressive, web 

396
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,000
app space anyway. 
Yeah, overtime. 

397
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,700
That's where everything is going
to be. 

398
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:18,800
I think even there's a lot of 
companies, larger companies that

399
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,900
are moving to Progressive web 
apps because one of the other 

400
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,500
key features of it is, it's 
faster. 

401
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,800
Loads faster, smaller, smaller, 
file sizes, a typical app 

402
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,300
produced from xcode for the 
iPhone is huge. 

403
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,000
You know, you might download it 
and it's 60 Meg. 

404
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,200
Yeah. 
Progressive web apps are super 

405
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,400
small because they're loading 
from the web. 

406
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,800
There was a, there was a big 
case study that I think 

407
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,100
Starbucks put out because they 
transfer their entire app system

408
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:55,000
from a native app, which is the 
X Route to a progressive web app

409
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000
and they saw sales increase 
something like 40%. 

410
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:03,200
Wow, because Starbucks obviously
has a lot of stores and they're 

411
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,900
in a lot of rural areas so the 
progressive web app made their 

412
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:11,100
app load faster which led to an 
increase in sales because people

413
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:13,500
that are out the data they have 
a 3g connection or they don't 

414
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,500
have a fast internet connection.
The progressive web app load 

415
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,300
super fast. 
Yeah yeah yeah that makes sense 

416
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,500
man. 
Like I've never had an app and 

417
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:25,900
I've played around with it a 
little bit in the past but I've 

418
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:27,300
just never really sink my teeth 
into it. 

419
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:30,500
But I feel like it would be way 
more efficient, just better 

420
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,700
better look more professional. 
What I'm currently doing with 

421
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,600
just Google spreadsheets 
tracking people's macros and 

422
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,900
getting things down and that's 
worked really really well. 

423
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,000
But having like a an integrative
app, they're able to have on 

424
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,100
their phone, get things down 
then and especially there's that

425
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,000
able to be some type of 
community involvement. 

426
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:49,100
Ant, which they can interact 
with other clientele. 

427
00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:51,500
If I hadn't like a group setting
would make a lot of sense. 

428
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,200
So yeah, we got the we're going 
to talk shop at some point this 

429
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,800
year about unveiling that as a 
possibility, that I think that 

430
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,300
would be the next step for sure,
for sure. 

431
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,600
And I have found over the years 
that the number one thing people

432
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,700
want is that icon in the app 
store. 

433
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:10,100
So yeah, when people if they 
have an app idea and they say 

434
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:12,400
how much how much is going to 
cost, they go get all these 

435
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,600
quotes and their hundreds of 
thousands of dollars and to 

436
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600
them, it's Well I just I just 
wanted my icon in the App Store 

437
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,700
like that's where my head goes. 
I can't afford to pay three 

438
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,800
hundred thousand dollars for 
this app. 

439
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,700
So anyway the the progressive 
route I think is it's up and 

440
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:31,500
coming more and more people are 
jumping on board with it, 

441
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,000
including large companies. 
So I think it's the way of the 

442
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,300
future and it's going to make 
things more affordable to have 

443
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,200
that icon in the App Store. 
May it make sense man my you my 

444
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,300
little keto Savage logo or 
something on a totally different

445
00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:47,100
direction here. 
As far as business goes, I just 

446
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,300
general business. 
A lot of people in your 

447
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:51,300
industry. 
They'll charge this premium up 

448
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:53,500
front whereas you have gone to 
lower price point. 

449
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:57,500
But a subscription model I've 
kind of played around the idea 

450
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,500
of doing like I'm not going to 
course right now. 

451
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,000
For instance, just kind of make 
this real real life here. 

452
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,900
Tangible to me, I'm building out
a course and I've played around 

453
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:09,000
with having a higher price point
single time cost versus a 

454
00:24:09,008 --> 00:24:12,800
subscription model. 
What have y'all found pros and 

455
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,400
cons what I mean obviously 
you've found my prose with the 

456
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,000
subscription my I've gone that 
round what's been kind of the 

457
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,200
reasoning behind that decision? 
Well there are a lot of reasons 

458
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,600
from a purely business 
perspective. 

459
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,700
From all from our business 
perspective, it's a little bit 

460
00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:36,200
peace of mind for us. 
It's a lot easier to track and 

461
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,100
project and make sure our 
employees are paid and we don't 

462
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:44,200
have to when we first started 
our business it was we were in 

463
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:50,600
that model of It's just one cost
so it's a few thousand dollars 

464
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,900
and that's it and that's fine as
long as things keep rolling in 

465
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:58,900
as long as you can keep getting 
new projects great. 

466
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,100
But with the subscription model 
for us internally we're just 

467
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:09,400
able to project. 
Month-to-month are gross and net

468
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:15,400
income and then that allows us 
then to when we need to hire, we

469
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200
know what's coming. 
Coming in to be able to do that 

470
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,300
from our customers perspective. 
We like the subscription model 

471
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:26,900
because again, it's like we 
treat it like a utility and we 

472
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,500
include support because it's 
inevitable that something might 

473
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:35,100
need to change or be updated. 
If you are a, an accountant for 

474
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:39,100
instance. 
You may have a few CPAs that 

475
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:41,800
your firm and one may decide to 
leave. 

476
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,600
And you need to update that on 
the website, things like that, 

477
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,900
come up all the time, or maybe 
you're going to be closed, and 

478
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:50,200
you need to put that on the 
website. 

479
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,500
So, as a service, then they have
access to us to be able to help 

480
00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:00,100
them. 
Do those things versus again, 

481
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:03,400
get going into the DIY or they 
are they on the hook for having 

482
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,000
to do that, which they probably 
won't because if Only login, 

483
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,800
every three months to change 
something. 

484
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,200
They forget something. 
Yeah. 

485
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:12,600
Forget how to login? 
Forget how to update it. 

486
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,900
So from our customers 
perspective, it's just a lot, 

487
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:22,300
simpler to shoot us, an email 
and have one of us. 

488
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:27,100
Get you fixed up and you know a 
couple of days or less and you 

489
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:29,200
keep moving. 
Keep deal. 

490
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,900
Have many customers May clients 
that are doing like website with

491
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:35,700
updated blog post is a pretty 
much just static websites that 

492
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:37,400
they're having is like Landing 
pages. 

493
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,200
And that's pretty much this. 
Not right changing week to week.

494
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,500
I'd say it's probably 80% that 
we call those brochures sites, 

495
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:49,500
so they're there for to sell the
business. 

496
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,000
So any service-based business is
great for that accountants 

497
00:26:52,000 --> 00:27:00,300
lawyers, you know, any any 
service that people just need 

498
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:03,800
their brochure online, they need
a way for people to check out 

499
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,400
their business. 
Get an idea of their services 

500
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,900
and then contact in some way, 
whether that's email call or hit

501
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:13,300
the contact form, those are the 
those are the basics, but then 

502
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:17,300
we do have the other 20% are. 
I mean, I would say they're 

503
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:22,800
pretty heavy into updating 
blogging doing everything they 

504
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,600
need to do. 
And it's it's funny too because 

505
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,300
it's not, there's not a there, 
doesn't seem to be a Radiant to 

506
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:31,300
it. 
It's like 80% have their 

507
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:35,400
brochure site and hardly ever 
touch it and in the other 20% 

508
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,800
touch it all the time so it's 
kind of classic 80/20 analysis. 

509
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,400
Yes, it's not. 
It's not just you know there's 

510
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600
some that do a few blog posts a 
year. 

511
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,900
It's it's they're either doing 
none or they're doing you know, 

512
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:49,900
ten posts a month type of thing.
And I'm assuming those people 

513
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:52,100
that are changing that, much, 
that frequently. 

514
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:55,500
Like, they're doing that right. 
Yes, those are our power users, 

515
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:57,000
for sure. 
Okay, because I was going to 

516
00:27:57,008 --> 00:27:58,700
just have jealous. 
Dart ghostwriting for ketose 

517
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:02,500
a.com you know probably dead. 
Kate, Kate velour, we could all 

518
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:03,600
do it. 
Yeah, there you go. 

519
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,000
I love it, love it. 
What do y'all see, like in the 

520
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,100
pipeline? 
What are you excited about? 

521
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,800
Like, last time, we're talking 
about all this Doom and Gloom 

522
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,400
with business and you were 
talking about hustling and just 

523
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,100
getting your name, your network,
your brand out there more, which

524
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:18,000
I think is what everybody's been
doing right now. 

525
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,500
But where do you see the web 
online space going like, what is

526
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:26,100
what, y'all call it web 3.0 or 
something like that. 

527
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,700
Well, there are a lot of 
buzzwords. 

528
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,000
Which we needed to. 
But who knows? 

529
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,000
I mean, I'm sure you've seen all
the stuff going on with crypto 

530
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,800
recently, and it's kind of 
crashing a little bit, kind of, 

531
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,300
a lot of it. 
So a lot of those Buzz words 

532
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:49,300
that came from the crypto space 
and from web 3.0 and 

533
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:54,700
decentralized web and all these 
like I kind of to take a step 

534
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:56,800
back because I'm not a buzzword 
guy at all. 

535
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,900
In fact, I Despised buzzwords. 
So to me, when I hear things 

536
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:05,100
like that, it's it's always 
seemed a little scammy to me, 

537
00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,300
which turns out probably was the
case. 

538
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Yeah, but when I hear something 
like decentralized web, that's 

539
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,500
kind of like having your own 
website. 

540
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,400
Yeah, we do run into a lot of 
people still today that their 

541
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:22,300
entire online presence is a 
Facebook page that nobody's 

542
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:26,100
seeing or which is scary or 
yeah, although have an Instagram

543
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:29,600
page that nobody has seen. 
And then they wonder why, you 

544
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,800
know, even if they have a lot of
followers, which I want your 

545
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,800
opinion on this too, even if you
have a lot of followers, a lot 

546
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,400
of times the algorithm may not 
be showing it to the people that

547
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,400
you want. 
Yeah. 

548
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:46,200
Now those like you that have 
that algorithm figured out, I do

549
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,400
not have, it's great for you, 
have it figured out more than 

550
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,100
most of our business customers, 
you know what I mean? 

551
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,300
Yeah, I don't think I shake my 
booty enough. 

552
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,600
Probably thought that, you know,
that that's like the thing on 

553
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,300
tick, tock tick on the Explore 
page. 

554
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,800
Yeah, yeah. 
So most like, small businesses 

555
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,600
that we work with, if they're, 
they struggle to again, I'll go 

556
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,200
back to like maybe they're a 
lawyer, they all they have is a 

557
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,300
Facebook page and they'll post 
something nobody will see it and

558
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,900
they wonder why which there are 
lots of reasons why that's the 

559
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,000
case but they're still living in
this other controlled 

560
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,900
environment by one large 
company. 

561
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:28,200
Yeah, we're as like we tout and 
support owning your On Space 

562
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,300
online. 
So that's what we've been saying

563
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:33,900
for years. 
Now, you need your web space 

564
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,800
online that you own. 
You could control what it says. 

565
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,200
You can make the updates or have
the updates made when somebody 

566
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,400
searches for you, they're coming
to your place, not Facebook, not

567
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,900
Instagram, they're seeing you 
your personality. 

568
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,300
That's another thing is huge for
businesses, because there are a 

569
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:55,100
lot of the same types of 
services that are offered, but 

570
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:59,200
every business is unique to Who 
they are their employees, their 

571
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,800
mission, their goals. 
You can showcase that off by 

572
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,300
having your own space online. 
And obviously, I think, at least

573
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:13,000
for our industry, what we're 
trying to do is wear more where 

574
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,400
the market is headed. 
Yeah, especially in the small 

575
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,800
business world. 
We run into people all the time 

576
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,000
that say they were given a quote
to do a website for ten thousand

577
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,600
dollars. 
They can't afford ten thousand 

578
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,700
dollars we want to make it 
affordable and less of a 

579
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:35,500
headache for those people. 
So we're just gonna keep 

580
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:41,200
pursuing that I liked your, I 
listened to your Manifesto. 

581
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:44,700
Oh yeah, and here which I love 
we sort of do something so I 

582
00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:46,700
don't call it a Manifesto 
necessarily but we do. 

583
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,100
Similar every year, we kind of 
have a theme for the year and 

584
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:52,200
this year for us is always our 
best work. 

585
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,500
So no matter what it is, if 
we're doing a branding project, 

586
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:57,500
we're doing a website, no matter
what it is. 

587
00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:01,000
We're always going to give every
single customer our best work. 

588
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,000
It may be a logo. 
That's a very, simple logo and 

589
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,900
is only two hours of work. 
That's going to be our best two 

590
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:10,200
hours. 
Yeah, it may be a large, 

591
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,600
custom-built website, or an app 
that we're doing, that takes 

592
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:15,700
1000 hours. 
Well, those are going to be the 

593
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:20,300
best thousand hours. 
We can put into it and best 

594
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:22,900
work. 
Doesn't mean complicated. 

595
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,200
It doesn't have to mean 
convoluted. 

596
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:29,400
It doesn't, you know, it doesn't
best. 

597
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,600
Doesn't mean. 
It takes a really long time. 

598
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:37,200
It's just when we're working. 
We're going to work at the best 

599
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,700
level that we can, and I should 
say it also doesn't mean 

600
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:41,900
perfect. 
We're not going to get 

601
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:46,000
everything right all the time. 
But as long as we're Always 

602
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,200
focused on doing our best work 
than in the end. 

603
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,200
It's going to be great. 
Yeah, feel like when you're 

604
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:56,000
pursuing Mastery of anything and
you just doubling down on it and

605
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,600
you're not cutting Corners, 
whether or not it works, whether

606
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,000
or not your customers happy with
it, which hopefully would be. 

607
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:04,500
But even if they're not, you 
don't have to, like, hang your 

608
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:06,800
head about anything because you 
did everything you could. 

609
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,500
There's been multiple times with
us, in the business, of course. 

610
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:14,100
And I've been like, losing sleep
and look at yourself each other.

611
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,900
Like, I don't know if this 
thing's gonna Work or not, but 

612
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:20,700
we've never half-assed anything 
and I think never half-ass 

613
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:24,500
anything. 
If for nothing else, it lets 

614
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:27,800
you. 
You know, be at peace with the 

615
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,500
outcome and I think there's a 
lot of value in that because so 

616
00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,500
many people half-ass everything 
and they're always just filled 

617
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:36,100
with this doubts and self regret
and remorse about what they 

618
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:37,400
would have been. 
It could have been, it should 

619
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,000
have been if they had just put 
forth all the effort and if you 

620
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
never had fast anything, you 
never have to worry about that. 

621
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,000
So I agree 100%. 
I also think patience is is 

622
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,600
huge. 
Especially it will in anything 

623
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,000
you do whether it's working out 
or business or anything, fishing

624
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,300
fishing. 
And especially fishing. 

625
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,600
I do think some people can get 
caught up in. 

626
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:05,200
Not wanting to wait for results.
Yeah and sometimes it takes 

627
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,100
time. 
You got out. 

628
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:10,500
You got to get in the gym every 
day and it's going to take time 

629
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:12,199
to produce the results that you 
want. 

630
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:16,199
You're not going to do one squat
session and then give it a 

631
00:34:16,207 --> 00:34:19,400
competition, right? 
Do a lot of people build a 

632
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,100
website and think like the whole
build it and they will come and 

633
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:23,900
tell me that they think that's 
just going to like the whole 

634
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:26,500
website, the whole world wide 
web is going to Knock on their 

635
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:28,000
door. 
That's still exists. 

636
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,900
I call that the Field of Dreams 
mentality. 

637
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:35,300
Yeah, it's still does exist. 
It's not real, it comes. 

638
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,800
It's waned over the years but 
it, I blame it on the.com, 

639
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,800
bubble back in the early 2000s 
because that's kind of what was 

640
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,600
happening. 
And I mean, obviously, the 

641
00:34:45,607 --> 00:34:49,900
bubble burst people ended up 
losing a lot of money but there 

642
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:53,199
is still some of that mentality 
where well, I just have to be 

643
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:55,500
online and then money is going 
to start rolling in. 

644
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:59,500
Ya know, if you have a business,
whatever your business is, you 

645
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,900
need to be working hard every 
day in your business. 

646
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:05,200
Trying to make the best product 
for your or service for your 

647
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,600
customers where we can help is 
making sure that what you're 

648
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,500
doing is elevated on the web. 
Yeah, so yeah, it's it's like 

649
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,300
you're saying it comes through 
with effort. 

650
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,400
You can't just put something out
there and then not do anything 

651
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:24,900
about it and then expect 
somebody to pay you for it. 

652
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,800
I kind of think of Have a 
website. 

653
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,100
Like I do think of having a 
podcast and having a newsletter 

654
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:33,400
like I look at the Instagram 
profiles that we have the 

655
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,400
Facebook profiles that you two 
profiles and we've got a lot of 

656
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,400
hours and YouTube videos and 
content online. 

657
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,800
But like you said, we don't own 
any of it but we made it also 

658
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,100
our content but Instagram has 
shut me down three times in the 

659
00:35:46,107 --> 00:35:48,800
past, like I'm kind of 
disillusioned by Instagram. 

660
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,200
I don't feel secure with 
Instagram per se but like with 

661
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,300
the newsletter and with the 
Cast. 

662
00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:59,200
And with the website, like I own
those out, right? 

663
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,000
I can change it. 
I can do whatever I want, I can 

664
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,500
say whatever I want. 
That's always honest. 

665
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,300
There are no reasons. 
I've never let people sponsor 

666
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:08,300
the podcast. 
Like, I am not holding to 

667
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:10,400
anybody's requester 
requirements. 

668
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,700
Like I can literally do whatever
I want to say whatever I want. 

669
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,300
Obviously, I want to say what is
right, what I believe in and you

670
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:17,900
know what? 
I think would be respectful 

671
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:19,500
towards my audience, my 
listenership. 

672
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,900
But having a website is just 
honestly Insurance towards not 

673
00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:26,000
letting the other powers that be
like the Instagrams, the The 

674
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,000
world dictate whether or not, 
I'm able to get in contact with 

675
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,400
my people because the people are
the reason I have any success in

676
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,700
life and if I can't get ahold of
them, then, you know, fish out 

677
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,600
of water. 
So website, just allows me to 

678
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,000
let me do that. 
Yeah, what kind of content do 

679
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,400
you have? 
You had taken down. 

680
00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:46,300
So my Instagram, I lost my 
Instagram profile, three times 

681
00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:48,800
the whole thing. 
Yeah, whole thing I lost it for 

682
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,600
the first time. 
I remember how long this the 

683
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,300
last time I lost I lost for like
six to eight months or 

684
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,600
something. 
So I lost for so long that I 

685
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,200
built a new Instagram and just 
assumed that I would never get 

686
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,700
it back and then I randomly got 
it back as their reasoning when 

687
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:06,300
I haven't really no idea man. 
Like I still don't know because 

688
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:09,700
this was during the whole 
pandemic and there were a lot of

689
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:12,900
people in the keto space, you 
know, talking all kinds of stuff

690
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:16,800
about the pandemic and there was
a lot of a lot of stuff. 

691
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,100
I mean, that's a whole nother 
podcast conversation right there

692
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,900
but I never post anything 
political and her post anything.

693
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:26,900
Controversial, my last picture 
on Instagram was Fish that I 

694
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:30,900
grilled and I guess I guess 
Instagram didn't like fish or 

695
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:32,800
something, I don't know, but 
they took my profile. 

696
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,900
Then I had I was gone for like 
three 6 or 8 months or 

697
00:37:35,908 --> 00:37:39,100
something, and then I just 
randomly got it back one day and

698
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,900
everything was as good as new so
I have no idea. 

699
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,300
I don't know, I think I was just
caught in the crossfire. 

700
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:47,100
Maybe a glitch in the system, 
I'm not sure. 

701
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,600
But it was weird. 
Kind of like some sweep and 

702
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:52,500
yeah, just got caught up in her.
Yeah. 

703
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:54,300
But I don't know, I mean there's
a lot of people that think 

704
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:55,700
there's a bunch of Shadow 
Banning. 

705
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,200
In out there, in which case like
people post things and then they

706
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,300
algorithms won't Elevate those 
posts to the to see. 

707
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,800
A lot of people won't see them 
and I have not figured out the 

708
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,300
algorithm, like I've got a 
handful of followers but I don't

709
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:13,500
like my following count has not 
grown drastically and like, I 

710
00:38:13,508 --> 00:38:16,400
don't know what the algorithm is
and I don't post near frequently

711
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,500
as I should. 
I should probably post a lot 

712
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:21,400
more than I do, but honestly, 
the podcast that newsletter, I 

713
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,600
put a lot more effort into 
because it's real like on like 

714
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,500
where Conversation right now 
you're sitting right here in 

715
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:28,700
front of me. 
We have it. 

716
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,700
It's real it's legit and like 
it's a longer format medium and 

717
00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:36,600
with Instagram with Tick-Tock 
Within These short format 

718
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,900
mediums your real message, can't
make it. 

719
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:41,200
Conveyed and people can 
misconstrue it and people just 

720
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,000
trying to do those buzzword 
things to get people's 

721
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,100
attention. 
You can't wait to do that with a

722
00:38:45,107 --> 00:38:48,600
podcast and with a newsletter, 
like I've got a Weekly 

723
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,800
Newsletter that's several 
paragraphs long, like, people 

724
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,600
read that whole thing and then 
they'll respond to me and I'll 

725
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:55,700
engage with, and it's just a 
real. 

726
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,700
Real conversation, like I love 
the responses that I get from 

727
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:01,100
that. 
I don't feel that way towards 

728
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,700
Instagram. 
I don't have a tick tock and I 

729
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,900
don't, I like the YouTube. 
But, but yeah, like the podcast 

730
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:11,400
and the, and the newsletter just
feels more natural to me. 

731
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,200
Organic newsletters are great, 
and controlling your message, 

732
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,500
like you're saying with your own
space is important. 

733
00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:22,800
I'm curious to get your thoughts
to on, kind of the fracturing of

734
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:24,600
social media. 
Obviously, what's going on with 

735
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,400
Twitter and Everything else, 
there's more and more social 

736
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,500
media things that are popping 
up. 

737
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:36,900
That people are kind of jumping 
to and I guess my question is 

738
00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:41,400
around like numbers because we 
will run into folks all the time

739
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,500
who want that follower count, 
the follower count is huge, but 

740
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:51,200
when you were eyes, like 
Paramount to them, but then when

741
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,500
you post, how many people are 
actually seeing it, do you have 

742
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:55,700
to give Facebook Instagram, 
whatever? 

743
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,800
Dever money for your actual 
followers, to see it. 

744
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,500
If you have 10,000 followers on 
Instagram, but you have 1,000 

745
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:08,800
newsletter subscribers. 
My argument is, usually always 

746
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,600
that thousand newsletter 
subscribers. 

747
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,400
That chose to sign up for your 
newsletter? 

748
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,500
Say yes, send me emails. 
I want to read them, is way more

749
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:19,100
valuable to you in your 
business, then that follower 

750
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:22,500
count on Instagram 1000%. 
I feel like if I'm obviously 

751
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:26,200
don't want to lose my Instagram 
again, but if I did lose it, I 

752
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,800
wouldn't really be worried about
it. 

753
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,400
Like, I don't think he would 
really affect the business at 

754
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,300
all. 
I mean, in my newsletter list, 

755
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:38,000
like, it has like a 44 percent 
open rate and I think that, I 

756
00:40:38,008 --> 00:40:39,400
mean, you probably know more 
than me. 

757
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,100
The average is like 20%. 
I think so, like 44% of my list,

758
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:45,100
opens and reads the news that 
are like, to me. 

759
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:48,200
I take a lot more pride in than 
how many followers I have on 

760
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,600
Instagram, you know. 
Yeah. 

761
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,000
And they respond back to the 
Emos to like I don't like 

762
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,000
engaging with these people. 
Like and my my newsletter super 

763
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,900
laid back like I'll talk Talk 
about things that I'm doing 

764
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:58,400
personally. 
I'll talk about questions that I

765
00:40:58,408 --> 00:41:01,300
have people send me 
recommendations so yeah it's 

766
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:03,100
just it's just fun for me. 
Yeah. 

767
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:08,700
Way more personal you can get to
know your audience a lot better 

768
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:12,200
than possibly just posting 
something on Instagram and 

769
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,600
walking away. 
Yeah. 100% I want to talk about 

770
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:18,700
Owning a business. 
You know, how long have you been

771
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:20,400
doing this now? 
Seven years. 

772
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,500
Seven and a half years, almost 
seven half years. 

773
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:26,600
So we've been, so I launched. 
Keto Savage, 2016, launchkey, no

774
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,900
brick, March 2018. 
So, yeah. 

775
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:34,900
Pretty good one. 
For both of us and a lot of 

776
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:37,800
people we've different 
businesses. 

777
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,600
Like, you have, you know, a 
software-as-a-service, you have 

778
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,600
a website development. 
You've done on the coding 

779
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,200
yourself with the keto brick 
aspect. 

780
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,900
I've got a ton of Overhead of 
get, you know, a physical 

781
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:50,700
product that we're shipping out 
and stuff like that. 

782
00:41:51,900 --> 00:41:55,000
The grass always looks greener 
on the other side when it comes 

783
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,400
to business. 
What do you like about what you 

784
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,200
do, what drives you crazy about,
what you do and where do you see

785
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,600
it going? 
Like what do you want to happen?

786
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,600
Because I've been talking to 
business owners a lot lately and

787
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,900
I think it's therapeutic for 
people that own businesses to 

788
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,700
just simply shoot the breeze 
with one another because 

789
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:19,100
sometimes you get so entrenched 
and You're dark tunnel black 

790
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:20,500
abyss of what you're going 
through. 

791
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:22,800
That just assume that the world 
is out to get you. 

792
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:25,700
But sometimes just, you know, 
bullshit that business owners is

793
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:27,900
therapeutic. 
So yeah, lay it on me, man. 

794
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,900
What you got going on right now?
Well, I mean, I obviously love 

795
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:35,100
the technology pieces of it. 
I do love technology. 

796
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:41,000
I've always been sort of jealous
of business owners that have 

797
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,700
physical products because it 
maybe we're having a similar 

798
00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:50,200
thought, but I always looked at 
a physical product as something 

799
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:56,700
that you could control without 
having other people give you 

800
00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:58,900
their input. 
If that makes sense, obviously 

801
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:01,600
you want customers to buy it and
you want their feedback and you 

802
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,200
want to make the product better.
But at the end of the day you're

803
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,300
creating a physical product that
you like and then you can just 

804
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,700
sell as many of those as you as 
you can. 

805
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,200
Another reason we kind of went 
to the to the software as a 

806
00:43:13,207 --> 00:43:16,300
service model and productized it
a little bit. 

807
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:22,100
Because I would rather. 
Build something, build a 

808
00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:26,400
technology one time, and then be
able to offer that, and, and 

809
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,200
improve it over time versus 
having to do everything custom 

810
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,000
all the time. 
So, to me, the thing I love the 

811
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,000
most is that is the technology. 
What goes into it, how we can 

812
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,600
continue to improve it with new 
features updates all that good 

813
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,800
stuff. 
That's what, that's what drives 

814
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,200
me with the technology piece of 
it. 

815
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,200
The thing that That can 
sometimes be hard is just 

816
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,200
people, you know we deal with 
lots of different people and I 

817
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:02,200
love getting to know other 
people's businesses. 

818
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:07,000
That's one of the things that is
super important to to me and my 

819
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,700
team especially with the website
in the days we can sit with you 

820
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,200
for hours and just get to know, 
you get to know your business, 

821
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:17,800
all that good stuff. 
But then every once in a while, 

822
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,200
will come across somebody that's
got All these ideas of the way, 

823
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,700
some things should go and those 
days can be kind of dancing. 

824
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:26,700
Tough. 
Yeah. 

825
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:33,300
But they're few and far between 
most, I would say, 99.9% of all 

826
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:35,100
of our clients are incredible 
people. 

827
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:38,900
Great to work with just those 
every once in a while get those 

828
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:44,400
few days that's that may be a 
little irritating, but yeah, 

829
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:47,300
technology getting to know, 
getting to know people. 

830
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:49,300
That's what we that's what we 
strive to do. 

831
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:52,600
I would Look like from a just a 
networking standpoint, you're in

832
00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:54,900
a pretty good position because 
you're having so many different 

833
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:57,900
Industries coming to you. 
And you just meet a lot of 

834
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:00,700
really cool people. 
I would think we do and a lot of

835
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,500
times will become clients of 
their businesses as well. 

836
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:08,600
If somebody's got a cool product
and we do website, Forum will 

837
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,600
become customers ourselves. 
I like that aspect of it, I 

838
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:18,100
don't, you know, Obviously, I 
want to be, I want us in our 

839
00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:22,300
team to be super successful. 
So as many business as much 

840
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,600
business as we can do as much 
income as we can bring in, I 

841
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,300
want to do that. 
I don't want, I don't know that.

842
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:33,900
I want to go the route of 
becoming like some huge business

843
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:36,200
that just sells. 
And then all these relationships

844
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,300
that we've made over the years 
with people, we just kind of we 

845
00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:41,500
just sell off those 
relationships just to make a 

846
00:45:41,508 --> 00:45:44,800
buck, I don't know what the 
future holds. 

847
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:50,300
But because we like getting to 
know our clients so so well. 

848
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:53,500
And the camaraderie that we have
with everyone, I want I just 

849
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,600
want to make sure that we're 
doing the best we can for them 

850
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,900
and anybody they might refer to 
us because if we get a referral 

851
00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:03,900
that's huge that means they 
thought we did a good job. 

852
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:06,300
We feel like we did a good job 
and they told their friends or 

853
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:09,900
family about it. 
Yeah, that goes honestly, 

854
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:13,900
sometimes a lot further than any
paid advertising we might do 

855
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,300
somebody's saying We love what 
you did. 

856
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:18,800
Here's I have a friend with the 
business. 

857
00:46:19,100 --> 00:46:20,300
Yeah. 
Do it for them to? 

858
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,500
Yeah. 
Yeah, angry man. 

859
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:25,000
I've been talking a lot of 
people and I feel like a lot of 

860
00:46:25,008 --> 00:46:28,200
people me outside looking in, 
they just assume the goal of any

861
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,400
business, just get bigger for 
the sake of getting bigger, but 

862
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,200
I find there's definitely a 
point a tipping point at which 

863
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,200
simply getting bigger just to 
get bigger. 

864
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,700
Diminishes, the Fulfillment that
comes from the business in the 

865
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:41,300
first place and why you started 
it. 

866
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,400
So like I think about what I've 
built and If I had to sacrifice 

867
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,800
relationship with that that I 
have with my crew or the 

868
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,100
customers that we have with the 
clients that I've had over the 

869
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:53,400
years, like it wouldn't be fun 
to me anymore. 

870
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,900
Like I wouldn't want to just 
build it to sell it off at some 

871
00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:59,000
points because then yeah, may 
have more money in the bank, but

872
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,000
it's like I don't want to hang 
my hat on that per se, whereas 

873
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,600
like now I'd like to have more 
money in the bank but I don't 

874
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,200
want to sacrifice my Integrity 
to do so, you know, like that. 

875
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,200
Just it's not a worthwhile 
trade-off in my mind. 

876
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,100
Yeah I agree and You see it 
happen a lot. 

877
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:19,000
It's unfortunate. 
We it kind of happened to us 

878
00:47:20,100 --> 00:47:24,100
this past week, we had we ran 
into an issue with the company 

879
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:32,900
that we have trusted for 10 plus
years and I think that's exactly

880
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:34,600
what happened to them. 
So that it was a smaller 

881
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:35,700
company. 
When we started working with 

882
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:38,300
them, they were great. 
Never had never had any issues. 

883
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,400
They did end up selling to a 
larger company about six or 

884
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,000
seven years ago, but we stuck 
with Them at that point, they 

885
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,300
said they were going to remain 
independent do their own thing. 

886
00:47:48,300 --> 00:47:50,500
They were just being acquired by
this other company. 

887
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,500
Okay, cool. 
And they were right, they did 

888
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:55,800
that for four years but then we 
started getting emails few 

889
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:00,600
months ago, saying, hey, we're 
basically Transferring 

890
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,200
everything over to this other 
larger company who obviously 

891
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,500
didn't care about. 
You know, I'm sure we were 

892
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:09,900
small-time to them. 
Yeah. 

893
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,900
So it was it was like pulling 
teeth to get any answers out of 

894
00:48:15,908 --> 00:48:17,500
them. 
I think I waited on hold for 

895
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,800
hours and hours and hours, just 
trying to figure something out. 

896
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:25,400
And that's definitely never a 
place that I want to ever get to

897
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:29,900
with something. 
If if in the event that We were 

898
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:32,900
able to build a business that is
sellable. 

899
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,300
It's it's, it would be really 
tough. 

900
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:37,700
We did. 
I want to do a lot of due 

901
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:41,500
diligence to make sure that if 
that's ever the case that 

902
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:44,200
they're not going to lose who we
are. 

903
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,100
The soul of kind of what we 
built. 

904
00:48:46,100 --> 00:48:48,300
That makes sense. 
Yeah, makes total sense, man. 

905
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,700
I feel like there's a, an old 
Parable. 

906
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:53,600
I don't know. 
I'm going to butcher if I try 

907
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,500
but there's this. 
There's some guy that was, like,

908
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,400
off the shore of Hawaii fishing 
or something like that. 

909
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,200
I'm going back to fishing 
analogy here. 

910
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:05,100
You're a big fish move with the 
listeners that, you know, and he

911
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,900
was like, he brought a bunch of 
fish in, and the guy on the 

912
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,200
shore was like man with that 
much fish, you can sort of 

913
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,900
business, you can do all this 
stuff and he's like why would I 

914
00:49:14,908 --> 00:49:16,400
want to do all things like you 
can grow? 

915
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,400
You can expand. 
You can you open up multiple 

916
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:19,400
ships? 
You have a fishery. 

917
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,900
You can just grow and grow and 
grow and then he's like why 

918
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:24,400
would I want to do that? 
The guys like well then you 

919
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,600
could sell it all off and then 
fish at your leisure and then 

920
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,300
spend time and have a siesta 
with your Emily in the evening. 

921
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,000
She's like, what's, what I do 
right now, you know? 

922
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,700
So it's like, I feel like people
lose sight of how great they 

923
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:38,900
have in the moment, just to 
always chase the next goal post,

924
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:41,400
but they don't even realize why 
they're chasing the goal post. 

925
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,600
And I've tried to be a lot more 
present as of late specially 

926
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,400
that I have a kid and you know, 
because to help you're gonna go,

927
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,100
I have a three and a half year 
old and a one year old, three 

928
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:53,700
and a half in a one-year-old. 
I feel like, man, haven't 

929
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:56,600
haven't kids? 
Like I didn't know this before I

930
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,100
kids and you know, people that 
have kids tell you what you're 

931
00:49:59,107 --> 00:50:00,700
going to From you don't have 
kids. 

932
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:03,700
Yeah, you know, you just get 
tired of hearing it but then you

933
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:07,400
have a kid. 
Like I'll have all the stress of

934
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,500
owning a business, all the 
stress of everything that I have

935
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:13,300
to do with the right thing. 
And then I come home and rigel 

936
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:14,700
doesn't care about any of that 
shit. 

937
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:18,900
He just looks up at me and 
smiles and like it's not worth 

938
00:50:18,900 --> 00:50:22,600
it for me to place myself under 
unnecessary stress. 

939
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,800
For a reason that isn't truly 
going to bring me fulfillment, 

940
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,400
if it means not being present in
the moment, and I think if, as 

941
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,300
long as you have a tight grip on
that and you have like like a 

942
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,100
like a proxy for Progress there 
and you don't lose sight of 

943
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:39,400
that, then you can grow as big 
as you want to grow, but if you 

944
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,600
ever have to lose sight of that,
just for the sake of growing, 

945
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,300
it's not worth it anymore. 
At least not to me. 

946
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,100
I totally agree. 
It's a weird equation. 

947
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:49,100
It's like another weird variable
in the equation when you have 

948
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:52,600
kids because I've always I've 
told people my whole life, I'm 

949
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,200
not really motivated by money, 
like that's not what gets me out

950
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,100
of bed in the morning. 
Just Money to have money but 

951
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:05,700
then, you know, you have kids 
and it's like, yeah, I want them

952
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:09,000
to have a good life now. 
So, yeah, you have to find this 

953
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,600
balance of being present. 
Also, hustling, when you need to

954
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:19,500
hustle You know, having money in
the bank so that you can provide

955
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:25,000
for your children, it's just 
it's a totally weird equation to

956
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,500
have to balance like every day. 
But if you had all the money in 

957
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:32,300
the world and like part of you 
thought, that would present them

958
00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:35,400
with a lot more opportunity. 
If you can ask them down the 

959
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,200
road, they probably would have 
just said, hey I wanted more 

960
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,200
time with you, you know I was 
just like you always have to 

961
00:51:39,207 --> 00:51:42,500
have that in the back, your mind
to that was like time, I mean, 

962
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:44,900
doesn't cost anything to spend 
time with them, you know? 

963
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,300
Oh, yeah. 
So yeah, it's yeah, it's a weird

964
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,100
balance because they gotta eat 
too, so, yeah. 

965
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:54,500
You know, it's cool that they 
keep, you honest, they keep me 

966
00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:57,100
very honest. 
What's a, what's exciting for 

967
00:51:57,107 --> 00:51:59,700
23? 
You're going to be hustling the 

968
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:02,100
websites in a day. 
More you think or what do you, 

969
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:04,100
what do you see the business 
going on the pipeline? 

970
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,900
Yeah, we I mean, just do as many
as we can. 

971
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:13,100
Honestly, we're super motivated 
by getting people onto a better 

972
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:18,000
platform and just helping people
understand that it doesn't have 

973
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,900
to be difficult. 
I think that blocks businesses 

974
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:27,000
up sometimes is they think, 
well, I can't change my website 

975
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,600
because maybe they had a 
horrible experience or maybe 

976
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,700
they paid tens of thousands of 
dollars for it. 

977
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,000
They don't like it. 
It's not doing anything for them

978
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,000
but they're afraid to make the 
jump because they don't want to 

979
00:52:36,008 --> 00:52:39,300
go through that again. 
Yeah, so I'm here to say it's so

980
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,100
we make it super easy. 
And we just want to see 

981
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:47,200
businesses doing the right thing
on the web this year's as much 

982
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,200
as possible. 
We're going to keep keep doing 

983
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,800
as many modular oranges as we 
can. 

984
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,500
I like the websites in a day it 
because again, selfishly we get 

985
00:52:57,500 --> 00:53:01,100
to sit and get to know the 
client and their business a lot 

986
00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:02,800
more intimately. 
I think that way. 

987
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:10,500
And it also selfishly allows us 
to to get everything done, you 

988
00:53:10,508 --> 00:53:12,400
know a lot more. 
Recently I would think a lot 

989
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,400
more efficiently. 
That's another way we make it 

990
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,800
easy because we understand let's
say you're a business owner and 

991
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:23,900
you need a new website. 
But then we need to maybe get 

992
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:26,900
some photos or some logo files 
or something from you. 

993
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,800
But you're working in your 
business all day, every day and 

994
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,800
then you go home and you have 
kids and you want to spend time 

995
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,100
with those kids and then it 
sending the email with those 

996
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:38,500
logo files, just keep slipping 
and slipping and slipping, and 

997
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:40,800
that can cause things to take a 
little bit more time. 

998
00:53:41,100 --> 00:53:44,500
But if I can just get a day with
you and say, bring your laptop 

999
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,400
and then when we need that logo 
file you we can just get it 

1000
00:53:47,408 --> 00:53:49,600
right there. 
Anything we need to do with 

1001
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,500
domain names or anything just 
happens all at once. 

1002
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,700
So I love them. 
Hopefully the team loves them to

1003
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,400
sometimes. 
They can be a little stressful, 

1004
00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:02,300
getting getting everything done 
all in one day but we've got the

1005
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:06,700
team of four people that spins 
all eight hours or you know, 

1006
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:10,100
spending the whole day putting 
the website together as quickly 

1007
00:54:10,100 --> 00:54:12,600
as we can. 
And then it's kind of fun. 

1008
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,500
Because at the end of the day, 
we'll do a little celebration, a

1009
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:18,800
little launch celebration, take 
a little video of it. 

1010
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,800
And yeah, try to make it fun. 
Not, I mean, I think it's great.

1011
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,800
I mean that, like I said at the 
beginning, you'll not pay me 

1012
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,900
say, is that I wanted to get you
on a podcast. 

1013
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,200
I vouched for you 100%, I met 
y'all through my uncle who built

1014
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,500
his website with you. 
Um, and then now I've built 

1015
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:34,700
three and I probably referred 
not even know how many people to

1016
00:54:34,700 --> 00:54:36,800
yell, a lot of people and my 
brother is going to let me know.

1017
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,100
They're going to keep coming. 
Appreciate it. 

1018
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,900
Yeah, it just works that. 
Well y'all Routledge, it the 

1019
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:45,900
website looks great. 
Anybody's listening, should go 

1020
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:49,500
check out my website, kill 
Savage.com, see how great it 

1021
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:51,200
looks. 
So they can then go to your 

1022
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,700
website, which is modular 
warns.com. 

1023
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:57,900
Yeah, that's the best way to get
ahold of young, that's the best 

1024
00:54:57,900 --> 00:54:59,400
way. 
It's got all the, all the 

1025
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,900
features examples, like 
anything. 

1026
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:05,200
You could be looking for, and 
we're super easy to talk to. 

1027
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,700
We don't, you know, again, we 
don't charge anything up front. 

1028
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:12,800
It's we do all the work. 
Work for you, and make sure 

1029
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,000
you're really happy before you 
ever get a single invoice. 

1030
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,100
So the site's up and launched. 
Before we send any invoices out,

1031
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,700
I always joke Ortiz, people that
come in for website in the day 

1032
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:28,500
because, you know, usually 
they're Blown Away by us being 

1033
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:31,700
able to do this. 
And then by the end of it, 

1034
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:33,500
they're like, how can I pay you?
How can I pay you, what do we 

1035
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:36,100
need to do? 
And my joke is always well, we 

1036
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:39,400
just wanted to get you in here 
and butter you up and get you to

1037
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,600
really like us. 
And then now you Then we'll send

1038
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,500
you an invoice. 
So we would just want to make 

1039
00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:47,900
sure people are super happy with
what they have if they're ever 

1040
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:50,900
not happy. 
Like let us know because we're 

1041
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:52,400
going to we're going to make it 
right. 

1042
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:54,500
Yeah. 
Now 100% y'all keep doing what 

1043
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:55,900
you're doing, keep fighting the 
good fight. 

1044
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,100
Thanks for having me on, thanks 
for ya, come back out here for 

1045
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:03,300
sure, man, some modules are 
orange.com it's and y'all have a

1046
00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:05,500
podcast that's been in 
hibernation little bit, right? 

1047
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:09,400
A little bit. 
We've got something like, 40, 

1048
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,000
something episodes that are out 
there. 

1049
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,700
A lot of it is pretty Evergreen 
content that's if you want to 

1050
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:18,800
search for the Matchstick, a 
studio podcast we there's a lot 

1051
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:25,100
of good Evergreen podcasts on 
there about design or best 

1052
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:28,000
practices for the web business 
tips. 

1053
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:30,800
There's probably a couple 
episodes of me ranting about 

1054
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:36,100
buzzwords that I hate. 
So yeah, it's in. 

1055
00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:39,700
It is in hibernation at the 
moment but it will get it fired 

1056
00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:41,900
back up again. 
And if our backup Up soon. 

1057
00:56:41,900 --> 00:56:44,600
I can't well, link out to the 
website, the podcast, everything

1058
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,300
making these people to find you 
and till next time may be, but I

1059
00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:49,400
know website, I'm sure here 
soon. 

1060
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:50,900
We'll talk about that after this
year for sure. 

1061
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,600
Awesome. 
Can't wait, take care, brother. 

1062
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:53,200
I thank you.